March 13, 2025 • 45 mins
The financial landscape is shifting dramatically, and Public.com is at the forefront of this transformation. Co-founder Leif Abraham takes us behind the scenes of the five-year journey that's reimagining what an investment platform can be for today's generation of investors.
Abraham reveals how Public differentiated itself from day one by focusing on people who want to take their investing more seriously rather than just speculating. The platform's technological innovation extends far beyond its intuitive interface – a custom-built multi-asset ledger enables fractional investing across all asset classes and real-time money movements that legacy platforms simply can't match.
Perhaps most fascinating is Public's groundbreaking work with AI through its Alpha tool, which began as an experimental project when OpenAI first released its API. Now fully integrated throughout the platform, Alpha provides contextual insights about market movements, breaks down earnings calls in real-time, and answers specific questions about companies. Unlike generic AI implementations, Public's approach combines GPT's natural language capabilities with proprietary structured financial data, creating what Abraham describes as "We are the brain, and GPT is the face of it."
The company recently secured $135 million in funding (bringing their total to over $400 million), which Abraham suggests will likely be their final capital raise as the platform continues expanding its offerings. Public's vision challenges the traditional binary between self-directed and managed investing by creating a spectrum of "guided investing" where users collaborate with intelligent systems to build portfolios that reflect their unique needs.
For investors looking to capitalize on the current rate environment, Public has seen growing interest in its bond offerings, particularly simplified "bond accounts" that provide easy access to diversified fixed income exposure without requiring deep expertise in the bond market.
Ready to experience the next generation of investing? Visit Public.com to explore their innovative platform that's helping people take a more serious approach to building wealth.
DISCLAIMER – PLEASE READ: This is a sponsored episode for which Lead-Lag Publishing, LLC has been paid a fee. Lead-Lag Publishing, LLC does not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of the information provided in the episode or make any representation as to its quality. All statements and expressions provided in this episode are the sole opinion of Public and Lead-Lag Publishing, LLC expressly disclaims any responsibility for action taken in connection with the information provided in the discussion. The content in this program is for informational purposes only. You should not construe any information or other material as investment, financial, tax, or other advice. The views expressed by the participants are solely their own. A participant may have taken or recommended any investment position discussed, but may close such position or alter its recommendation at any time without notice. Nothing contained in this program constitutes
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want you to talk about for a moment how you dealt
with stress.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yeah, I think, obviously as an entrepreneur, as
a founder, the real anxietycomes from the risk you take,
and I think that's also why it'stough to be a founder,
especially in the early days,because you have to be willing
to kind of work through thatrisk and I was lucky that it's
(00:28):
that it came out on the otherend, um, but obviously you know
you don't know why you're in it,right.
And so I think the most anxietyinducing moments is really the
ones where you know things arenot going well and, um, you
recognize, even for yourpersonal career, your personal
financials, you know, and so on,that, um, that you, or where
(00:52):
you're kind of realizing therisks that you've taken.
I think those are the truemoments where you're getting
like the true anxiety we'regoing to get a public.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
We're going to go very public in this discussion
by talking to some of the thingsthat public is doing.
I've had the pleasure ofgetting to know the people at
public over the last year and ahalf, two years or so.
I like very much what they'redoing as a platform.
So this is going to be a verydifferent type of conversation
with Life Abraham here, but onethat I think is going to be
interesting, especially givenhow much money they have raised
recently, which tells you howmuch excitement there is in what
(01:33):
they are building out.
So, with all that said, my nameis Michael Guy, a publisher of
the Lead Lagrime.
Joining me here is Life Abraham.
We were just joking beforeabout the raise as far as how
involved Life was, and hebasically said it was his life
to get its point.
So Life, not to make peoplemaybe familiar with your
background, but introduceyourself who are you, what have
you done throughout your careerand what do you do in the public
(01:54):
?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Hey Life co-founder of Public, originally German,
worked in 2008 and, yeah, publiclaunched call it a little over
five years ago, and we'reessentially focused on what we
like to say.
People are a little moreserious about their investing.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So five years is not a long time, especially the last
five years, even though it feltlike a long time because of how
bizarre the markets, you canargue, have been Talk to me
about sort of why you launchedpublic.
I mean, what was the impetusand what's that journey been
like from five years ago totoday?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the call of new broker
space or like the like, moremodern investing apps like that
first generation that came outwas a little bit more focused on
speculation right, cfd tradingin Europe, you know, options
trading in the US or, like youknow, crypto only place in the
US and so on.
And we do have this theory thatevery generation kind of grows
(02:48):
up with their own platforms, notjust in investing and generally
everything they're kind ofusing.
And what we recognized was thatyou know, the next generation
Schwab for lack of a betterwording had not really been
created yet, and so we saw thisyou know area on the market to
essentially build somethingwhere you know this generation
can kind of really build theirlike real portfolios and you
(03:12):
know, kind of more seriouslybuild their wealth.
And that was really kind oflike the first you know ignition
, and then from there there weredifferent ways on how to
execute that and so on.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
But yeah, how much of that is just purely UI, ux.
I mean, I'm thinking from asort of standpoint of you know,
what does the end user see?
Right, if it's about agenerational sort of targeting a
different generation?
I got to assume that's like 80,90% of this.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, I mean a lot of it is definitely design.
The other thing is obviouslyproduct offerings, right, so
which asset classes do you havein the app together and which
asset classes do you have in theapp together, and so on.
But there's also a lothappening behind the scenes that
even now you would take totallyfor granted.
But you know, give an example,you know things like you sign up
(03:55):
and you could immediately fundan account and start investing
within minutes Sounds completelyobvious now, but even when we
started it was not necessarilythat obvious and for most
incumbents it did not happenlike that.
When you would sign up and youwould deposit money, it would
take a few days to get theaccount even rolling and stuff
like that.
And so even just littleinnovation in KYC and funding
(04:16):
and things like that have done alot.
And then one thing that we'vehad a lot of focus on is behind
the scenes.
We've essentially created thismulti-asset ledger to be a
little nerdy for a second, andwhat that really enabled us is
number one fractionalizing allasset classes.
Um, that means people can startwith dollar amounts and so on
(04:38):
and therefore be a little bitmore holistic on their portfolio
construction, no matter which,how much money they might start
investing, um, or how much moneythey might start investing, or
how much money they kind of putin every month.
And then they also enablethings like, for example,
real-time money movementsbetween asset classes and so you
can sell a UST bill and putthat money into Bitcoin right
away, for example Not investmentadvice, but you know just and
(05:01):
so those types of things, evenbehind the scenes, from a
technological perspective, go along way.
And the other piece is reallyis very true.
We've done some research, justourselves, you know, and like.
What we found was that you know, incumbent, like if you look at
the top five incumbent brokers,they're essentially, you know,
have some sort of issue ordowntime every second trading
day, and so even just from asense of building the
(05:23):
technological stack from scratch, using the same technologies,
etc for all asset classes and soon, goes a long way in just
things like stability.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So the fractionalizing I think is
interesting because that's beenaround for some time, but to
your point, maybe not as simple,across all the different asset
classes time.
But to your point, maybe not assimple, across all the
different asset classes, acrossthe client base.
At Public, how many portfolioshave fractional shares of a
particular investment?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Generally speaking, you could basically say all of
them, because the way you investon Public is, the default
experience is dollar amounts,and that's because it's, all you
know, fractionally powered, andso the default experience isn't
a safe for people to go in andbe like I want to buy this many
(06:14):
shares.
You can do that, of course, butthe default experience is
really that everything is kindof run through dollar amounts,
which, on the other end of it,means that most cases it's
fractional.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Okay, so you built it out.
I've got to imagine the timingwas remarkably good in a lot of
ways because you had this influxof retail obviously coming in
post-COVID In the early days.
How did you go about gettingpeople aware of public, because
it's hard to unseat theincumbents to your point.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, to your point.
First off, we launched inseptember of 19 and if you look
at 2020 covid drop, then thecovid rise of those stocks, then
meme stocks, then you know theinterest rates going up, etc.
Like the market cycles we'vebeen through in this company now
already feels like, obviously,that we are way older, um, just
(07:04):
because you've been through somuch already.
Um, but the same, I think, isalso true for obviously, all the
investors who joined themarkets throughout that time or
became more serious throughoutthat time and, um, for us,
really, where we started off wasto focus on, like, specific
niche communities and so on andkind of acquired our customers
there and, and you know,nowadays it's like, you know,
(07:25):
the vast majority is organic andso on, and then just a bunch of
partnerships and stuff, ofcourse, that we acquire people
with, but majority is reallyjust one of us.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And, as I recall, there's a fairly important
social component in terms of theway that you built out the
platform.
Talk to me about that, becauseI think that's also where the
stodgier type of brokers havefailed just trying to encourage
not just content but community.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And we've had a lot of learnings throughout the
years.
When we started off, we had moresocial features than we have
right now, and I thinkspecifically through things like
COVID.
Obviously social futures weregreat for people to connect, to
have forums to talk about theirinvesting and what they're
investing in and why, andbreaking down earnings calls and
(08:15):
so on.
What we've seen in the last yearplus is that actually AI has
cannibalized a lot of thebenefits that social had in the
past.
So, like one of the core kind ofpost types in the social field
in public used to be earningscall breakdowns of people kind
of you know, just like you know,one starts, has some sort of
(08:38):
earnings report and then peoplejust breaking it down and so on,
and that, for example, issomething that now Alpha, our AI
agent at the, the app, does andit does it just honestly quite
better whether it's faster, it'spotentially more accurate, um,
you know, and so on, and sowe've seen how ai actually has
cannibalized a lot of the socialfeatures there, and what we're
seeing with community is thenstill that it does happen.
(09:02):
I a little bit more brokerplatform agnostic where it's
happening, for example, onTwitter, obviously, or it
happens in the Discord and so on, and so where we are now is
really it's a little bit morelike how can we support those
communities living outside ofthe app that are focusing too
much to try to replicate anothercommunity in the app as well?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
As AI started getting into the public, I'm sure there
were a lot of people that weresurprised by.
You know the extent to which itwould go and affect markets.
But how much were you as acompany, as a founder, aware of,
you know AI developments?
How much were you starting toget involved in the AI side?
I got to imagine, before a lotof other, people.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, we were lucky to, essentially when the API
from OpenAI came out, we wereone of the first to get access
to that, which was great, and sowe were fairly early in being
able to just like tinker with it.
And in the beginning we reallysaw it like that.
We saw it more as like aninternal company thing of like
(10:05):
we have to tinker with thesetechnologies, we have to, you
know, make sure that we know howthis works and what you can do
with it, and so on, and then andso therefore, alpha really for
us started a little bit more asa side project to see what we
can do and how far it can go,and then that was quite
successful.
And then from there we builtAlpha out further and now we can
(10:26):
think about Alpha as reallythis Currently, these two
components to it call like pushand pull.
So on the one side, you canliterally just swipe down on any
stock and ask any questionabout the stock, and that's like
when you kind of have somethingin your mind you want to know.
And that model is fed with allthe financial data, with LLS
reports, with custom companyKPIs and so know.
And that model is fed with allthe financial data, with LLS
(10:47):
reports, with custom companyKBIs and so on.
And then, on the other end,alpha is kind of weaved into the
app more and more, where youknow a good example is the
earnings call breakdown.
Someone has an earnings call.
We, you know, push you kind oflike an overview of that
earnings call.
You know.
Overview of that earnings call,you know the minute they hang
up.
On the other end, also, like ifa stock, for example, has a lot
(11:08):
of movement going on, there'ssome volatility in the markets,
we actually like Alpha actually,you know, tells you why that
might be happening and gives youthose context cues within the
experience, etc.
So there's a lot of kind oflike more AI now weaved into the
experience.
It's all kind of powered bythat same model, and so Alpha
became more serious for us overtime.
Also now to a point where we'veeven spun it out as an own kind
(11:31):
of watch list app.
So even if you're not a publiccustomer yet, you can still use
the Alpha app itself, which isjust a watch list app.
Think of it as like Applestocks meets GPT, and then it's
just like a standalone productnow as well, but it's, and so
like it kind of exists in thesetwo places either just weaved
into the experience of the corepublic investing app as well as
(11:54):
like a standalone app for peoplewho might not yet be our
customers but still want to use,also might be valuable for.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
How complex is that?
I got to imagine.
If you're integrating with AI,a lot of the real complex is
handled by the AI itself, right,but from a coding perspective,
I gotta imagine it's actuallystill pretty challenging.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, you can think about it as, like GPT for us is
a little bit the translationlayer for humans.
It's like the natural languageinterface.
It's like the natural languageinterface.
It's great at summarization,for example, and so on.
But a lot of the experience,like, if you right now go to
like chagipdcom and you justtype something in, there's a lot
(12:35):
of web scraping involved, it'sprone to errors and so on, and
so the thing of us is like wehave a little bit like built the
brain with the numbers and sowe're direct access to real-time
data, direct access tostructured data.
For example, three years ago weacquired a small company that
(12:55):
essentially took custom companyKPIs from SEC filings and so on
and then turns it intostructured qualified data and
that is, for example, a data setthat we were able then to use
to train Alpha with, which justbrings the error rate heavily
down, because the information iscoming from like actual
structured numbers where youknow we're kind of like looking
(13:18):
up a table and then you know GPTjust like summarizes it, puts
it into human language and, youknow, creates an interaction
layer.
But they don't.
But GPT doesn't have to findthe information somewhere.
The information is in astructured case already and that
was really one of the corethings for us.
But internally we talk about itas like we are the brain and
then you know GPT is kind oflike you know the face of it and
(13:43):
that has, you know, I think,done a lot there.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
What's been the response to the alpha, to the
watch list itself?
Are you seeing a lot ofinterest in it, a lot of people
using it?
I get the sense.
Everyone talks about AI.
I don't know how many end usersactually are implementing it.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, and I think when it comes to the AI stuff,
it's like to be frank, no onegives a damn if it's AI or not,
Right, the question is, thevalue that it provides needs to
be clear.
And so when you look at theAlpha app, it's really just the
sense of that hey, you're usinga watch list app.
(14:19):
Basically, if you're using theApple Stocks app right now, you
should just delete that rightnow and switch to Alpha, because
you're essentially getting thesame thing that you're getting
from the Apple Stocks app, butwith an extra layer of context,
an extra layer of proactiveinformation about it.
We don't have to go into someYahoo Finance article somewhere
to figure out what's going on,but you get the summarization
(14:41):
snippets of what's happening inthe markets in borderline
real-time directly plugged intoyour watchlist and then from
there you can dig deeper, right,you can literally ask anything
about those companies there.
And so that extra layer andjust getting those alerts like
if those alerts would be done byan army of human beings in the
back of our office or it happensto AI doesn't really matter to
(15:04):
the user much.
What matters is does it work?
How fast is it?
How accurate is it?
What matters is does it work,how fast is it, how accurate is
it, and so on.
And so, yeah, I totally agreethat just the notion of is it AI
or not doesn't really matter,and no one should really care.
What really matters is does thefeature that we build actually
works and do you get some valueout of it?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Talk to me about your expenses as a platform, meaning
where is the spend primarilygoing?
Oftentimes, when I think abouta business, I think about one of
the biggest spends is obviouslymarketing and sales, but I
guess it's obviously when you'rerunning a brokerage platform.
You've got a lot of regulationyou've got to worry about, right
, You've got to deal with a lotof that.
So talk to me about where a lotof the spend goes.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, it's pretty straightforward For a company
like ours.
You can think of spend in likethree buckets and it's
simplified as roughly threethirds even, right, one third
marketing, one third staff, onethird is infrastructure.
And infrastructure specificallylike if you run a regulated
(16:10):
stock brokerage, the tech stacknot just from a regulatory
perspective of reportingrequirements and the tech you
have to build around that, butthe tech stack of running this
is pretty damn complex.
It's a pretty heavytechnological challenge actually
to run a proper trading app.
(16:30):
And that comes because there'sa lot of other parties involved.
Right, there is data providers,there's clearing firms, there's
the exchanges themselves,there's auto execution, etc.
Etc.
And there's also a lot ofthings that don't necessarily
just happen at the same time.
Right, you have to be able toqueue things like, for example,
(16:53):
orders that are going to be putinto the weekend that are not
executing until market open at9.30 in the morning.
You know things like that, andso it's actually quite
technically challenging to builda good trading infrastructure.
And you have, you know,obviously like moments of high
load, for example, and stuff.
You have to be able to scale itup and down pretty quickly and
easily, and so on, and so a lotof it goes into infrastructure
(17:14):
and making sure it all workspretty smoothly.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Talk to me about growth of the user base and in
general.
I know the last five years havebeen unusual, but do you find
that it's fairly consistent?
Or you end up getting more andmore people signing up?
Based on low markets, based onvolatility, based on whatever I
mean, what causes a big surge insignups?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Our user acquisition is always tied to market events,
and market events can beanything from an IPO to the
market, such as, for example,spiking or dropping.
You know Bitcoin goes on a rallyor drops very heavily.
So, like anything that kind ofsparks intent in people is when
(18:01):
you see acquisition go up, andso it's super heavily tied to
market events.
And then the second thing Iwould say is like personal life
events, right, people who youknow they get married, they
inherit some money events.
And then the second thing Iwould say is like personal life
events right, people who youknow they get married, they
inherit some money, they, youknow, um, have children being
born, um, they get promoted,they get paid a bonus, like any
(18:21):
types of events where eitherthere's liquidity coming in
because they make some money insome regard or because, um,
there's some you know moment intheir life that just reminds
them to potentially take thefinances more seriously, to
maybe make some moves in theirportfolios, and so on.
And so I would say those arethe two main components market
events and personal life eventswho kind of spark intent, and
(18:44):
you'll always see some spikesaround that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
So I alluded to it a little bit earlier.
The fundraising I'm going toshare my screen on this.
I think it's a pretty bignumber, so congrats on this.
But you guys just raised $135million.
Talk to me about that process.
Raising money and I say this asa fund manager in general is
really hard.
When you're doing it from a VC,private equity standpoint, I
(19:09):
got to imagine it's probably alot harder.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So first, the way we've always thought about
fundraising is this principle ofraise money when you see
opportunity, not when the moneyruns out, right, that's the
ideal setup, right Exactly.
That's the ideal setup.
I'm not saying that that'salways possible for everyone and
so on, but that's historicallyhow we've always done it, and
we've raised now a little over$400 million total, and this is
(19:39):
likely the last time we'llactually have to raise money, as
long as we don't necessarilywant to raise more money, which
is obviously awesome.
Right To just finally be in aspot, in a position where you're
not reliant on venture capitalin the future anymore.
And so, yeah, for us also, like, we had, you know, one investor
(19:59):
, specifically Excel, which islike a kind of big, famous VC
firm, and they've reallysupported us from the beginning,
and so they have essentiallyled every single funding round
in the history of this company,and so they've been a partner to
us from the very beginning, andso they have essentially led
every single funding round inthe history of this company, and
so they've been a partner to usfrom the very beginning, and
they've also were the ones who,you know, did most of the money
in this round as well, whichobviously having someone like
(20:19):
that on your side obviouslyhelps a lot and just makes the
process also much easier.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So that money that's raised?
I saw the headline on AI, butI'm curious just a little more
granular.
Where was that?
Where's that capital going tobe spent and invested?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Long story short, as stupid as it sounds, but like
where it's needed, and so thatfalls into as we grow, customer
service.
That falls into marketing, sothat we keep growing, and that
falls into just like supportingour operations.
The nice thing is by now, isthat you know the company is at
(20:52):
a place where you know thebroker dealer is profitable, you
know, and so it's really fromlike a investment perspective is
really mostly into marketingspend to you know, fast to keep
growing and then obviously fastto keep building more, more new
features and products as well.
You know, as we kind of keepgoing the pretty straightforward
stuff, to be honest, but morenew features and products as
(21:14):
well, you know, as we kind ofkeep going they're pretty
straightforward stuff, to behonest.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
But how satisfying that answer was.
But yeah, well, I mean it's notan unusual answer, I just think
it's.
Yeah, it's a big number.
Obviously, right, as you thinkfurther out in time, right as
the co-founder, I'm sure you'vegot a much longer term, bigger
vision for the company and as anentrepreneur myself, I can
understand how you have a visionand sometimes it just somewhat
(21:38):
changes as you evolve and thingsplay out.
Where do you see public in thenext five, 10 years?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
We have this little kind of theory and, if I take a
little step back for a second,if you look at the old world in
our space, it was pretty binary.
It was like either it's aself-directed platform and you
do everything yourself, and it'sessentially tables with buy
buttons and charts, and on theother end, it's the you have
(22:09):
someone do it for you.
It's fully managed.
You likely talk to a humanbeing.
You yourself are maybe a littlebit further detached from the
portfolio, and if you look atthe incumbent platforms, that's
literally how they're builtright.
It's always a financialadvisory product, which is
mostly human beings, or you haveyour self-directed, which is
(22:30):
tables and charts, and what welook at this is like we look at
it more as a spectrum.
So instead of it just beingbinary, kind of like spread it
out as a spectrum and we're kindof moving up the spectrum.
We obviously started veryheavily self-directed as well
and we're moving up the spectruminto more managed, but it
doesn't mean that it's as binary, as you either do it all
(22:51):
yourself or someone's doing itfor you.
We believe that in the spectrum,in the middle of something we
call guided investing, where youdo it together with the system
and AI systems like Alpha we seein the future playing a huge
role in that as well where youmight have initial spark.
You might have a theory arounda certain industry or investing
(23:11):
strategy and so on, and you canfeed that into the system.
You get some feedback back andyou can see how it would do us
on and you might get some adviceon that as well, and then you
react to that and maybe youautomate it from there and the
system takes it on, but it'smore a little bit like you have
this power or you have this pingpong.
The system takes it on, butit's more a little bit where you
have this power, you have thisping pong with the system and
(23:32):
the product, versus it being sobinary.
So you're living more on aspectrum where it's not as just
everyone's being done for youand you do it all yourself, but
you're kind of living in thespectrum, depending on the
products you want to have andkind of what you want to do
right now and then in the world.
It's like your portfolio will bea little bit more diverse in
(23:54):
that regard as well, because youwill look at things where you
have a very key thesis on acompany.
You will self-direct it.
You bought the stock and youwill decide when to buy and sell
it and add a position or sellfrom the position and so on, and
you might have another part ofyour portfolio where it's, you
know, borderline, fully managed,but it will sit in the same
portfolio.
It will feel more likedifferent asset classes and such
(24:14):
, and that's a little bit likehow we envision the future there
.
And so, throughout this yearspecifically, we're going to
move more and more into moreproducts that will look like
they are a little bit moremanaged, even though they might
not be fully managed, becauseyou know you might have some
control over them, you mighthave some input into the
creation of them, etc.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
So on X I put out a post saying, speaking about my
own business, which I was goingthrough the hockey stick at a
much smaller scale obviouslythan yours that I was joking
saying that spending $10,000 to$15,000 a week is mildly
anxiety-inducing, and a lot ofpeople were responding saying if
you're on Spirulina you've gotto have some real, you know,
intestinal fortitude.
(24:53):
All right, to deal with that.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I want you to talk about for a moment how you dealt
with stress, because I got toimagine there were plenty of
junctures in the last five yearswhere you were just kind of
losing it from the amount ofstuff that was going on and the
pressures you were just kind oflosing it from the amount of
stuff that was going on and thepressures, yeah, and I mean
(25:20):
stress, I think comes from whenyou feel like you might not be
fully in control of everythingthat you're trying to do or
achieve, and in that way I feellike it can be one, but it can
also just be more motivating.
At some points, I think anxietyis really more the sense of we
always need a much.
We always say in a mature spacenow it's a real company, it's
working, we're making moneyright, and so it's like we're
(25:45):
way further down the road withthis one.
But, for example, before thisone, I started another company.
It's like an invoicing app forfreelancers and such and um, and
when I started that my wifewasn't working, I had a newborn
child, um and uh.
Obviously, because I started acompany with very little venture
(26:07):
money, I paid myself verylittle and I was just burning
every month and I essentiallywas on the clock and every month
I was going, you know, look atmy bank account and it would go
less and less and less and less.
I was literally on this clockto like make this thing work.
And when we sold that company Ithink I had, like I don't know,
five months of runway left orso in my personal bank account.
(26:31):
And so, yeah, I think, obviously, as an entrepreneur, as a
founder, the real anxiety comesfrom the risk you take.
And I think that's also why it'stough to be a founder,
especially in the early days,because you have to be willing
to kind of work through thatrisk and you know, I was lucky
(26:56):
that it came out on the otherend.
But obviously, you know, youdon't know why you're in it,
right?
And so I think the mostanxiety-inducing moments is
really the ones where you knowthings are not going well and
you recognize even are not goingwell and, um, you recognize,
even for your personal career,your personal financials, you
(27:16):
know, and so on, that um thatyou will, or where you're kind
of realizing the risks thatyou've taken.
I think those are the truemoments where you're getting
like the true anxiety, um, butyeah, to your point, like you
have to invest and if it'sdirectly into the company or is
it's the personal burn that youhave, you know, and so on.
Um, I think that is, I thinkit's maybe impossible to truly
(27:40):
be successful at your venture,um, without you being willing to
take those types of risks.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I want to go back to Publix um audience and client
base.
So you know, clearly, on theretail side you're trying to
democratize things for theretail investor.
There is this perception outthere that retail is, you know,
in quotes naive, or they call inquotes the money, versus the
so-called smart money which isinstitutional investors.
(28:07):
And increasingly obviously, asyou know, you know, the market's
being driven more by retailflows anyway and retail has much
more access to information.
Do you get a sense that retailjust knowledge-wise and I know
this is kind of a broad sweepingstatement but that they really
have the same kind of advantagesnow in terms of just
information access that the realbig boys do?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think the honest answer is you don't really know,
because you don't truly knowwhat kind of information certain
people have access to, right,but I completely agree that this
notion of like retail that's adumb money is kind of a little
bit of a dumb opinion.
Um, because it's, uh, because inmost cases it's simply not true
, and you have seen many momentswhere retailers outperforming,
(28:49):
you know, hedge funds in massiveregards, you know, and so, um,
that is just a little that isjust stupid, right and um, and I
think even in like, even if youlooked at like you know, the
oldest of wall street bets andstuff, like there was some real
proper fundamental research inthere that people have shared
(29:13):
and um, and so you realize thatthere's like a lot of really
smart retail investors in themarkets.
Um, now, whenever markets arehyped, is it because of, you
know, a trend like ai, orbecause of meme stocks, or
because of some crypto goingnuts or whatever.
(29:34):
You will also always have peoplefollowing and joining the
markets who have not done thatresearch, who do not have that
experience, and that risk, Ithink, always exists.
And I think where we, forexample, as a platform, see a
certain responsibility of like,we're not here to tell you what
to do, but we do, believe aresponsibility to give you as
much context as we can whileyou're active in the markets and
(29:58):
that's where Alpha comes inwith trying to tell you why the
chart was going up or down, forexample, giving you the access
to all the data in the best wayspossible, and so on, and giving
you these context cues asyou're out there Because there's
really you're out there becausethere's really smart retail out
there.
But whenever there's hype,there's also overconfidence and
(30:20):
there's, you know, people comingin who may have not done their
research yet and and I thinkthat there is some
responsibility to platforms likeourselves to make sure that you
know those people don't fall ontheir nose right away.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Is there anything the Schwab's, the world of fidelity
, the world can do to step in,just given the sheer number of
resources, and dramaticallychange the way the UI, the UX,
looks?
I mean, it seems to me that thereal advantage you have is that
you're not to use a KamalaHarris line, burdened by what
has been kind of thing.
(30:54):
I'm trying to think of anotherway of phrasing it, but yeah,
but you get what I'm asking,right?
I mean, you know, it seems likeyou've got the agility.
It's hard for anybody else toreally keep up.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, and I think it's not just like I said before
, like it's not just the UI,right, like, can you hire a nice
designer to make something alittle bit more pretty?
Yeah, maybe you can, but itdoesn't matter if you put the
saying of you put lipstick on apig or something right, where
the infrastructure behind it is30, 40, 50 years old and
(31:31):
therefore all the issues keepexisting and the error message
might come in a more beautifulmodel now, but the error message
is still coming.
And so I think where theincumbents struggle the most is
that most of the technology wasbuilt decades ago, and that's
where also just the risk comesin of not just downtimes but
(31:57):
also just the risks of data lossand whatnot.
And it's like if I would bewith a incumbent, that's what I
would be scared about.
I will be scared about theissues you can't really see
because they're not part of thebeautiful UI but they're in the
background, realizing that thebackend for this asset class was
built in 1992 and the backendfor this asset class was built
(32:20):
in 2004.
And those two backends don'ttalk to each other because they
were built by entirely differentteams at entirely different
times, entirely different techstacks and so on, and the people
maintaining them right now arerunning behind, maintaining them
every single day on, and thepeople maintaining them right
now are running behindmaintaining them every single
day.
Like that's, I think the issuethat incumbents much more have
is that their tech is holdingtogether on strings based off
(32:45):
old technologies that they'vebuilt over decades and decades,
and that's where companies likeours, who are just newer, have
an advantage, because our techstack, you know, like the oldest
tech we have is, you know, callit, three, four years old,
right and so on.
So, which is just a massivedifference for stability and
everything.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Any interesting insights.
I don't know if you have anyoff the top of your head.
From an aggregate level, as faras where a lot of public
investors are investing or maybeactually trading meaning, is it
the MAG7?
Is it levered ETFs?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I mean, where's the flow going?
Vast majority just equities andcalled the MAG7s, and some of
the retail related ones calledagain.
No financial advice, justsharing some information here,
but like the Palantirs, the Hemsand Hers and so on, where
(33:42):
there's just retail-heavyownership, those are obviously
also the types of stocks that wewill see high up in the
rankings as well.
In our case, this is justownership of people who own it
and the AUM within it and so on.
And the other piece that we'reseeing a lot of still fixed
income, especially now with therate cuts.
Some of them happened, calledand paused for now for a better
(34:04):
wording.
But what that means is that ratecuts are generally on the
horizon.
The general consensus is stillthat there will be more rate
cuts coming, and what we'reseeing a lot of people do is
right now to lock in higheryields for cash they don't need
in the next 6-12 months, usingbonds.
(34:25):
And if it's treasuries from thegovernment or if it's corporate
bonds from, just like, largerand more established companies,
but just this notion of can Ilock in 4, five, six, seven, you
know, 8% yields, just likebasically guaranteed with bonds.
That's behavior we're seeingmuch more and more and more.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, and, as I recall, you built out a fairly
robust bond screener tool nottoo long ago, so you're seeing
that there's more interest onbonds in general.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, 100%.
And the other thing we have alsodone as well, because bonds
might be a super old asset class, but it's actually fairly new
to most retail, because the lasttime rates were this high was
literally pre-iPhone, and sothere's a whole generation of
investors who grew up in themarkets at a time where bonds
were irrelevant and thensuddenly rates went up now a few
years ago, and suddenly bondsbecame relevant again, and now
(35:20):
rates are being cut again, andso now the question is how long
will it take for the next iPhoneto come out before rates will
be again this high?
Hence why people are trying tolock these things in.
And then one thing we've doneas well, because bonds are so
new, and if you look at thechart, the chart will have two
lines, and so it can beconfusing to some people, and so
we've also built these bondaccounts, one with corporate
(35:42):
bonds underlying and one with UStreasuries underlying, where
the experience is moresimplified, where more feels
like an account type, where youjust deposit money, it
automatically gets invested intoa diversified batch of these
bonds and then you just sit backand earn that yield, and so it
feels more like an account.
Hence we call them bondaccounts or treasury account,
(36:06):
and that is really somethingwhere we've seen most of the
adoption in bonds, because itjust makes it so much simpler
for people and they don'tnecessarily have to do the
research to figure out which ofthe bonds of Apple they might
want to buy or whatever companythey might look at.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I know you also occasionally do some events and
on the ground marketing.
From that standpoint, are yougoing to invite me to one of
those again?
I'm pretty sure you got aninvite.
I did get an invite.
I 100% did it.
I was somewhere else, Icouldn't do it.
I would have another meeting.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Actually one last week.
I couldn't make that that.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I didn't know about.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Apparently it was a beautiful restaurant in the
middle of New York.
You can just pop over.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'll be easy enough, I will not relent.
Sure it'll be obvious who I amand then that's it.
Okay, so maybe kind of for somefinal thoughts here.
So futures bright for thecompany.
Got this big round of funding,a lot of things in the pipeline.
Aside from the AI end of things, anything else that you have
(37:13):
pending that you know, maybe youcan do a little spoiler alert
that you know, maybe those thatare existing investors in public
or considering using public youknow, should be aware of.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I can't really give you like a proper spoiler, um
but um, we keep building out ourcrypto offering as well.
I'll I can say that if you careabout such things.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Well, whether I care about it or not, there's one
thing I know from the app worldand from the world in general
you are not your user right.
So it's like if the user wantsit, then you've got to give it
to them.
And if Trump is the pro-cryptopresident which we'll see how
things play out on that end yeah, I mean, clearly the space is
going to keep growing and theregulatory environment is going
to be favorable and actuallythat's a good, maybe closing
(37:56):
direction.
I'm curious if you have anysort of big picture thoughts on
deregulation which is going toimpact everybody.
I saw some headline around, Ithink a certain amount of SEC
employees were offered an amountto retire recently.
I just saw that kind ofrandomly on X.
But how does deregulationimpact what public is doing?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, and the funny thing is in talking about crypto
, it's not even deregulation,it's actually quite opposite of
like actually creatingregulation and the issue that
around crypto was this thing ofthat, it was, you know,
regulation by enforcement, wherewere no guidelines out there
and then enforcement washappening against virtually all
(38:40):
companies in the space around us.
And now everyone's obviouslyhoping for just more clear
guidelines and I do believe thatwill come under this
administration and we'll seewhat those exactly will be and
you'll see kind of littlepockets come out, like this
whole notion of like, hey, memestocks, sorry, like meme coins
(39:01):
are not securities, like thatwas already now said out loud by
the SEC and so on, and so wewill see more of that.
But I think it's actually oncrypto side specifically, is
actually the opposite ofderegulation, is actually
finally having some rules sothat some safety also for
customers can be created andsome clarity for the companies
(39:23):
involved can be created.
And I think it's actually superimportant on crypto because
crypto is the one asset classthat was born retail.
It was the asset class that thefirst people that could reach
on crypto were regular people.
It was not the big hedge fundpeople and so on, and so many
Americans are invested in cryptoand have serious money in
crypto, and so it's only theresponsible thing to do to make
(39:49):
sure that there's some properregulation and guidelines around
those assets in order to notharm the people that own it.
And I think what actuallyhappened before through this
regulation, through enforcement,that it also had a lot of
negative impacts on crypto notjust talking value, but also
(40:10):
just what you can trade whereand people getting liquidated in
certain platforms and so on,and I would say that actually
had a lot of negative effects onretail at that time, because
people got sold out at momenttimes where they maybe shouldn't
have, and so on.
And so I think that is like Iam excited about what's to come
(40:31):
there.
And then, in terms of likederegulation, I would call
deregulation, I would call it,you know, potentially just like
more business friendly, and so Ithink we will see that in the
M&A markets just coming, youknow, more to fruition again and
so on.
Like we were kind of in aborderline M&A standstill where
(40:54):
a bunch of companies you know ofcompanies started to not buy
other companies anymore becauseit felt everything was falling
through.
I remember this one case of aluxury handbag company to be
acquired by this other holdingof luxury fashion goods which
was shut down for thatacquisition to happen.
And to be very honest,personally, I was looking at
(41:20):
that and be like this isliterally a luxury handbag
company where things likescarcity of product is part of
the product strategy and stufflike that.
How is this a monopoly?
How does this help to goagainst the creation of
monopolies in luxury headbandmarkets?
It just felt so out of norm andso I feel like there's just a
(41:44):
little bit of morelevel-headedness that will
happen around things like M&A.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Closing thoughts here as far as those that are
watching.
I appreciate those that arepaying attention to this
sponsored podcast by Public.
Why choose Public now, andwhere can people actually go and
sign up to Public?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Go to publiccom to sign up Few things If you want
to lock in some, some yield asit's here, as the yields are
still high with the bondsaccounts, check that out.
Super nice and simpleexperience.
Number two try Alpha.
Try to break it.
Tell us what doesn't work.
Tell us what you can find Alphadoesn't know.
(42:23):
We'll try to fix it and try tomake it better.
A lot of progress happeningthere and then, generally
speaking, you know, if you'rehere to take your investing a
little bit more serious,consider us, we might be the
place for you.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Again, folks, this has been an edited podcast.
This is a sponsoredconversation by Public.
I'm a fan of everything thatLife is doing with his team and
I think all of you should checkout Public at, of course,
publiccom.
Congrats Life, and if youhappen to throw that party I'm
not far away keep me posted.
Thank you very much, appreciateit.
I want you to talk about for a moment how you dealt
with stress.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Yeah, I think, obviously as an entrepreneur, as
a founder, the real anxietycomes from the risk you take,
and I think that's also why it'stough to be a founder,
especially in the early days,because you have to be willing
to kind of work through thatrisk and I was lucky that it's
(00:28):
that it came out on the otherend, um, but obviously you know
you don't know why you're in it,right.
And so I think the most anxietyinducing moments is really the
ones where you know things arenot going well and, um, you
recognize, even for yourpersonal career, your personal
financials, you know, and so on,that, um, that you, or where
(00:52):
you're kind of realizing therisks that you've taken.
I think those are the truemoments where you're getting
like the true anxiety we'regoing to get a public.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
We're going to go very public in this discussion
by talking to some of the thingsthat public is doing.
I've had the pleasure ofgetting to know the people at
public over the last year and ahalf, two years or so.
I like very much what they'redoing as a platform.
So this is going to be a verydifferent type of conversation
with Life Abraham here, but onethat I think is going to be
interesting, especially givenhow much money they have raised
recently, which tells you howmuch excitement there is in what
(01:33):
they are building out.
So, with all that said, my nameis Michael Guy, a publisher of
the Lead Lagrime.
Joining me here is Life Abraham.
We were just joking beforeabout the raise as far as how
involved Life was, and hebasically said it was his life
to get its point.
So Life, not to make peoplemaybe familiar with your
background, but introduceyourself who are you, what have
you done throughout your careerand what do you do in the public
(01:54):
?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Hey Life co-founder of Public, originally German,
worked in 2008 and, yeah, publiclaunched call it a little over
five years ago, and we'reessentially focused on what we
like to say.
People are a little moreserious about their investing.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
So five years is not a long time, especially the last
five years, even though it feltlike a long time because of how
bizarre the markets, you canargue, have been Talk to me
about sort of why you launchedpublic.
I mean, what was the impetusand what's that journey been
like from five years ago totoday?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the call of new broker
space or like the like, moremodern investing apps like that
first generation that came outwas a little bit more focused on
speculation right, cfd tradingin Europe, you know, options
trading in the US or, like youknow, crypto only place in the
US and so on.
And we do have this theory thatevery generation kind of grows
(02:48):
up with their own platforms, notjust in investing and generally
everything they're kind ofusing.
And what we recognized was thatyou know, the next generation
Schwab for lack of a betterwording had not really been
created yet, and so we saw thisyou know area on the market to
essentially build somethingwhere you know this generation
can kind of really build theirlike real portfolios and you
(03:12):
know, kind of more seriouslybuild their wealth.
And that was really kind oflike the first you know ignition
, and then from there there weredifferent ways on how to
execute that and so on.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
But yeah, how much of that is just purely UI, ux.
I mean, I'm thinking from asort of standpoint of you know,
what does the end user see?
Right, if it's about agenerational sort of targeting a
different generation?
I got to assume that's like 80,90% of this.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, I mean a lot of it is definitely design.
The other thing is obviouslyproduct offerings, right, so
which asset classes do you havein the app together and which
asset classes do you have in theapp together, and so on.
But there's also a lothappening behind the scenes that
even now you would take totallyfor granted.
But you know, give an example,you know things like you sign up
(03:55):
and you could immediately fundan account and start investing
within minutes Sounds completelyobvious now, but even when we
started it was not necessarilythat obvious and for most
incumbents it did not happenlike that.
When you would sign up and youwould deposit money, it would
take a few days to get theaccount even rolling and stuff
like that.
And so even just littleinnovation in KYC and funding
(04:16):
and things like that have done alot.
And then one thing that we'vehad a lot of focus on is behind
the scenes.
We've essentially created thismulti-asset ledger to be a
little nerdy for a second, andwhat that really enabled us is
number one fractionalizing allasset classes.
Um, that means people can startwith dollar amounts and so on
(04:38):
and therefore be a little bitmore holistic on their portfolio
construction, no matter which,how much money they might start
investing, um, or how much moneythey might start investing, or
how much money they kind of putin every month.
And then they also enablethings like, for example,
real-time money movementsbetween asset classes and so you
can sell a UST bill and putthat money into Bitcoin right
away, for example Not investmentadvice, but you know just and
(05:01):
so those types of things, evenbehind the scenes, from a
technological perspective, go along way.
And the other piece is reallyis very true.
We've done some research, justourselves, you know, and like.
What we found was that you know, incumbent, like if you look at
the top five incumbent brokers,they're essentially, you know,
have some sort of issue ordowntime every second trading
day, and so even just from asense of building the
(05:23):
technological stack from scratch, using the same technologies,
etc for all asset classes and soon, goes a long way in just
things like stability.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So the fractionalizing I think is
interesting because that's beenaround for some time, but to
your point, maybe not as simple,across all the different asset
classes time.
But to your point, maybe not assimple, across all the
different asset classes, acrossthe client base.
At Public, how many portfolioshave fractional shares of a
particular investment?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Generally speaking, you could basically say all of
them, because the way you investon Public is, the default
experience is dollar amounts,and that's because it's, all you
know, fractionally powered, andso the default experience isn't
a safe for people to go in andbe like I want to buy this many
(06:14):
shares.
You can do that, of course, butthe default experience is
really that everything is kindof run through dollar amounts,
which, on the other end of it,means that most cases it's
fractional.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Okay, so you built it out.
I've got to imagine the timingwas remarkably good in a lot of
ways because you had this influxof retail obviously coming in
post-COVID In the early days.
How did you go about gettingpeople aware of public, because
it's hard to unseat theincumbents to your point.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, to your point.
First off, we launched inseptember of 19 and if you look
at 2020 covid drop, then thecovid rise of those stocks, then
meme stocks, then you know theinterest rates going up, etc.
Like the market cycles we'vebeen through in this company now
already feels like, obviously,that we are way older, um, just
(07:04):
because you've been through somuch already.
Um, but the same, I think, isalso true for obviously, all the
investors who joined themarkets throughout that time or
became more serious throughoutthat time and, um, for us,
really, where we started off wasto focus on, like, specific
niche communities and so on andkind of acquired our customers
there and, and you know,nowadays it's like, you know,
(07:25):
the vast majority is organic andso on, and then just a bunch of
partnerships and stuff, ofcourse, that we acquire people
with, but majority is reallyjust one of us.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And, as I recall, there's a fairly important
social component in terms of theway that you built out the
platform.
Talk to me about that, becauseI think that's also where the
stodgier type of brokers havefailed just trying to encourage
not just content but community.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And we've had a lot of learnings throughout the
years.
When we started off, we had moresocial features than we have
right now, and I thinkspecifically through things like
COVID.
Obviously social futures weregreat for people to connect, to
have forums to talk about theirinvesting and what they're
investing in and why, andbreaking down earnings calls and
(08:15):
so on.
What we've seen in the last yearplus is that actually AI has
cannibalized a lot of thebenefits that social had in the
past.
So, like one of the core kind ofpost types in the social field
in public used to be earningscall breakdowns of people kind
of you know, just like you know,one starts, has some sort of
(08:38):
earnings report and then peoplejust breaking it down and so on,
and that, for example, issomething that now Alpha, our AI
agent at the, the app, does andit does it just honestly quite
better whether it's faster, it'spotentially more accurate, um,
you know, and so on, and sowe've seen how ai actually has
cannibalized a lot of the socialfeatures there, and what we're
seeing with community is thenstill that it does happen.
(09:02):
I a little bit more brokerplatform agnostic where it's
happening, for example, onTwitter, obviously, or it
happens in the Discord and so on, and so where we are now is
really it's a little bit morelike how can we support those
communities living outside ofthe app that are focusing too
much to try to replicate anothercommunity in the app as well?
Speaker 1 (09:24):
As AI started getting into the public, I'm sure there
were a lot of people that weresurprised by.
You know the extent to which itwould go and affect markets.
But how much were you as acompany, as a founder, aware of,
you know AI developments?
How much were you starting toget involved in the AI side?
I got to imagine, before a lotof other, people.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, we were lucky to, essentially when the API
from OpenAI came out, we wereone of the first to get access
to that, which was great, and sowe were fairly early in being
able to just like tinker with it.
And in the beginning we reallysaw it like that.
We saw it more as like aninternal company thing of like
(10:05):
we have to tinker with thesetechnologies, we have to, you
know, make sure that we know howthis works and what you can do
with it, and so on, and then andso therefore, alpha really for
us started a little bit more asa side project to see what we
can do and how far it can go,and then that was quite
successful.
And then from there we builtAlpha out further and now we can
(10:26):
think about Alpha as reallythis Currently, these two
components to it call like pushand pull.
So on the one side, you canliterally just swipe down on any
stock and ask any questionabout the stock, and that's like
when you kind of have somethingin your mind you want to know.
And that model is fed with allthe financial data, with LLS
reports, with custom companyKPIs and so know.
And that model is fed with allthe financial data, with LLS
(10:47):
reports, with custom companyKBIs and so on.
And then, on the other end,alpha is kind of weaved into the
app more and more, where youknow a good example is the
earnings call breakdown.
Someone has an earnings call.
We, you know, push you kind oflike an overview of that
earnings call.
You know.
Overview of that earnings call,you know the minute they hang
up.
On the other end, also, like ifa stock, for example, has a lot
(11:08):
of movement going on, there'ssome volatility in the markets,
we actually like Alpha actually,you know, tells you why that
might be happening and gives youthose context cues within the
experience, etc.
So there's a lot of kind oflike more AI now weaved into the
experience.
It's all kind of powered bythat same model, and so Alpha
became more serious for us overtime.
Also now to a point where we'veeven spun it out as an own kind
(11:31):
of watch list app.
So even if you're not a publiccustomer yet, you can still use
the Alpha app itself, which isjust a watch list app.
Think of it as like Applestocks meets GPT, and then it's
just like a standalone productnow as well, but it's, and so
like it kind of exists in thesetwo places either just weaved
into the experience of the corepublic investing app as well as
(11:54):
like a standalone app for peoplewho might not yet be our
customers but still want to use,also might be valuable for.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
How complex is that?
I got to imagine.
If you're integrating with AI,a lot of the real complex is
handled by the AI itself, right,but from a coding perspective,
I gotta imagine it's actuallystill pretty challenging.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, you can think about it as, like GPT for us is
a little bit the translationlayer for humans.
It's like the natural languageinterface.
It's like the natural languageinterface.
It's great at summarization,for example, and so on.
But a lot of the experience,like, if you right now go to
like chagipdcom and you justtype something in, there's a lot
(12:35):
of web scraping involved, it'sprone to errors and so on, and
so the thing of us is like wehave a little bit like built the
brain with the numbers and sowe're direct access to real-time
data, direct access tostructured data.
For example, three years ago weacquired a small company that
(12:55):
essentially took custom companyKPIs from SEC filings and so on
and then turns it intostructured qualified data and
that is, for example, a data setthat we were able then to use
to train Alpha with, which justbrings the error rate heavily
down, because the information iscoming from like actual
structured numbers where youknow we're kind of like looking
(13:18):
up a table and then you know GPTjust like summarizes it, puts
it into human language and, youknow, creates an interaction
layer.
But they don't.
But GPT doesn't have to findthe information somewhere.
The information is in astructured case already and that
was really one of the corethings for us.
But internally we talk about itas like we are the brain and
then you know GPT is kind oflike you know the face of it and
(13:43):
that has, you know, I think,done a lot there.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
What's been the response to the alpha, to the
watch list itself?
Are you seeing a lot ofinterest in it, a lot of people
using it?
I get the sense.
Everyone talks about AI.
I don't know how many end usersactually are implementing it.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, and I think when it comes to the AI stuff,
it's like to be frank, no onegives a damn if it's AI or not,
Right, the question is, thevalue that it provides needs to
be clear.
And so when you look at theAlpha app, it's really just the
sense of that hey, you're usinga watch list app.
(14:19):
Basically, if you're using theApple Stocks app right now, you
should just delete that rightnow and switch to Alpha, because
you're essentially getting thesame thing that you're getting
from the Apple Stocks app, butwith an extra layer of context,
an extra layer of proactiveinformation about it.
We don't have to go into someYahoo Finance article somewhere
to figure out what's going on,but you get the summarization
(14:41):
snippets of what's happening inthe markets in borderline
real-time directly plugged intoyour watchlist and then from
there you can dig deeper, right,you can literally ask anything
about those companies there.
And so that extra layer andjust getting those alerts like
if those alerts would be done byan army of human beings in the
back of our office or it happensto AI doesn't really matter to
(15:04):
the user much.
What matters is does it work?
How fast is it?
How accurate is it?
What matters is does it work,how fast is it, how accurate is
it, and so on.
And so, yeah, I totally agreethat just the notion of is it AI
or not doesn't really matter,and no one should really care.
What really matters is does thefeature that we build actually
works and do you get some valueout of it?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Talk to me about your expenses as a platform, meaning
where is the spend primarilygoing?
Oftentimes, when I think abouta business, I think about one of
the biggest spends is obviouslymarketing and sales, but I
guess it's obviously when you'rerunning a brokerage platform.
You've got a lot of regulationyou've got to worry about, right
, You've got to deal with a lotof that.
So talk to me about where a lotof the spend goes.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Yeah, it's pretty straightforward For a company
like ours.
You can think of spend in likethree buckets and it's
simplified as roughly threethirds even, right, one third
marketing, one third staff, onethird is infrastructure.
And infrastructure specificallylike if you run a regulated
(16:10):
stock brokerage, the tech stacknot just from a regulatory
perspective of reportingrequirements and the tech you
have to build around that, butthe tech stack of running this
is pretty damn complex.
It's a pretty heavytechnological challenge actually
to run a proper trading app.
(16:30):
And that comes because there'sa lot of other parties involved.
Right, there is data providers,there's clearing firms, there's
the exchanges themselves,there's auto execution, etc.
Etc.
And there's also a lot ofthings that don't necessarily
just happen at the same time.
Right, you have to be able toqueue things like, for example,
(16:53):
orders that are going to be putinto the weekend that are not
executing until market open at9.30 in the morning.
You know things like that, andso it's actually quite
technically challenging to builda good trading infrastructure.
And you have, you know,obviously like moments of high
load, for example, and stuff.
You have to be able to scale itup and down pretty quickly and
easily, and so on, and so a lotof it goes into infrastructure
(17:14):
and making sure it all workspretty smoothly.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Talk to me about growth of the user base and in
general.
I know the last five years havebeen unusual, but do you find
that it's fairly consistent?
Or you end up getting more andmore people signing up?
Based on low markets, based onvolatility, based on whatever I
mean, what causes a big surge insignups?
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Our user acquisition is always tied to market events,
and market events can beanything from an IPO to the
market, such as, for example,spiking or dropping.
You know Bitcoin goes on a rallyor drops very heavily.
So, like anything that kind ofsparks intent in people is when
(18:01):
you see acquisition go up, andso it's super heavily tied to
market events.
And then the second thing Iwould say is like personal life
events, right, people who youknow they get married, they
inherit some money events.
And then the second thing Iwould say is like personal life
events right, people who youknow they get married, they
inherit some money, they, youknow, um, have children being
born, um, they get promoted,they get paid a bonus, like any
(18:21):
types of events where eitherthere's liquidity coming in
because they make some money insome regard or because, um,
there's some you know moment intheir life that just reminds
them to potentially take thefinances more seriously, to
maybe make some moves in theirportfolios, and so on.
And so I would say those arethe two main components market
events and personal life eventswho kind of spark intent, and
(18:44):
you'll always see some spikesaround that.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
So I alluded to it a little bit earlier.
The fundraising I'm going toshare my screen on this.
I think it's a pretty bignumber, so congrats on this.
But you guys just raised $135million.
Talk to me about that process.
Raising money and I say this asa fund manager in general is
really hard.
When you're doing it from a VC,private equity standpoint, I
(19:09):
got to imagine it's probably alot harder.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
So first, the way we've always thought about
fundraising is this principle ofraise money when you see
opportunity, not when the moneyruns out, right, that's the
ideal setup, right Exactly.
That's the ideal setup.
I'm not saying that that'salways possible for everyone and
so on, but that's historicallyhow we've always done it, and
we've raised now a little over$400 million total, and this is
(19:39):
likely the last time we'llactually have to raise money, as
long as we don't necessarilywant to raise more money, which
is obviously awesome.
Right To just finally be in aspot, in a position where you're
not reliant on venture capitalin the future anymore.
And so, yeah, for us also, like, we had, you know, one investor
(19:59):
, specifically Excel, which islike a kind of big, famous VC
firm, and they've reallysupported us from the beginning,
and so they have essentiallyled every single funding round
in the history of this company,and so they've been a partner to
us from the very beginning, andso they have essentially led
every single funding round inthe history of this company, and
so they've been a partner to usfrom the very beginning, and
they've also were the ones who,you know, did most of the money
in this round as well, whichobviously having someone like
(20:19):
that on your side obviouslyhelps a lot and just makes the
process also much easier.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So that money that's raised?
I saw the headline on AI, butI'm curious just a little more
granular.
Where was that?
Where's that capital going tobe spent and invested?
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Long story short, as stupid as it sounds, but like
where it's needed, and so thatfalls into as we grow, customer
service.
That falls into marketing, sothat we keep growing, and that
falls into just like supportingour operations.
The nice thing is by now, isthat you know the company is at
(20:52):
a place where you know thebroker dealer is profitable, you
know, and so it's really fromlike a investment perspective is
really mostly into marketingspend to you know, fast to keep
growing and then obviously fastto keep building more, more new
features and products as well.
You know, as we kind of keepgoing the pretty straightforward
stuff, to be honest, but morenew features and products as
(21:14):
well, you know, as we kind ofkeep going they're pretty
straightforward stuff, to behonest.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
But how satisfying that answer was.
But yeah, well, I mean it's notan unusual answer, I just think
it's.
Yeah, it's a big number.
Obviously, right, as you thinkfurther out in time, right as
the co-founder, I'm sure you'vegot a much longer term, bigger
vision for the company and as anentrepreneur myself, I can
understand how you have a visionand sometimes it just somewhat
(21:38):
changes as you evolve and thingsplay out.
Where do you see public in thenext five, 10 years?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
We have this little kind of theory and, if I take a
little step back for a second,if you look at the old world in
our space, it was pretty binary.
It was like either it's aself-directed platform and you
do everything yourself, and it'sessentially tables with buy
buttons and charts, and on theother end, it's the you have
(22:09):
someone do it for you.
It's fully managed.
You likely talk to a humanbeing.
You yourself are maybe a littlebit further detached from the
portfolio, and if you look atthe incumbent platforms, that's
literally how they're builtright.
It's always a financialadvisory product, which is
mostly human beings, or you haveyour self-directed, which is
(22:30):
tables and charts, and what welook at this is like we look at
it more as a spectrum.
So instead of it just beingbinary, kind of like spread it
out as a spectrum and we're kindof moving up the spectrum.
We obviously started veryheavily self-directed as well
and we're moving up the spectruminto more managed, but it
doesn't mean that it's as binary, as you either do it all
(22:51):
yourself or someone's doing itfor you.
We believe that in the spectrum,in the middle of something we
call guided investing, where youdo it together with the system
and AI systems like Alpha we seein the future playing a huge
role in that as well where youmight have initial spark.
You might have a theory arounda certain industry or investing
(23:11):
strategy and so on, and you canfeed that into the system.
You get some feedback back andyou can see how it would do us
on and you might get some adviceon that as well, and then you
react to that and maybe youautomate it from there and the
system takes it on, but it'smore a little bit like you have
this power or you have this pingpong.
The system takes it on, butit's more a little bit where you
have this power, you have thisping pong with the system and
(23:32):
the product, versus it being sobinary.
So you're living more on aspectrum where it's not as just
everyone's being done for youand you do it all yourself, but
you're kind of living in thespectrum, depending on the
products you want to have andkind of what you want to do
right now and then in the world.
It's like your portfolio will bea little bit more diverse in
(23:54):
that regard as well, because youwill look at things where you
have a very key thesis on acompany.
You will self-direct it.
You bought the stock and youwill decide when to buy and sell
it and add a position or sellfrom the position and so on, and
you might have another part ofyour portfolio where it's, you
know, borderline, fully managed,but it will sit in the same
portfolio.
It will feel more likedifferent asset classes and such
(24:14):
, and that's a little bit likehow we envision the future there
.
And so, throughout this yearspecifically, we're going to
move more and more into moreproducts that will look like
they are a little bit moremanaged, even though they might
not be fully managed, becauseyou know you might have some
control over them, you mighthave some input into the
creation of them, etc.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
So on X I put out a post saying, speaking about my
own business, which I was goingthrough the hockey stick at a
much smaller scale obviouslythan yours that I was joking
saying that spending $10,000 to$15,000 a week is mildly
anxiety-inducing, and a lot ofpeople were responding saying if
you're on Spirulina you've gotto have some real, you know,
intestinal fortitude.
(24:53):
All right, to deal with that.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I want you to talk about for a moment how you dealt
with stress, because I got toimagine there were plenty of
junctures in the last five yearswhere you were just kind of
losing it from the amount ofstuff that was going on and the
pressures you were just kind oflosing it from the amount of
stuff that was going on and thepressures, yeah, and I mean
(25:20):
stress, I think comes from whenyou feel like you might not be
fully in control of everythingthat you're trying to do or
achieve, and in that way I feellike it can be one, but it can
also just be more motivating.
At some points, I think anxietyis really more the sense of we
always need a much.
We always say in a mature spacenow it's a real company, it's
working, we're making moneyright, and so it's like we're
(25:45):
way further down the road withthis one.
But, for example, before thisone, I started another company.
It's like an invoicing app forfreelancers and such and um, and
when I started that my wifewasn't working, I had a newborn
child, um and uh.
Obviously, because I started acompany with very little venture
(26:07):
money, I paid myself verylittle and I was just burning
every month and I essentiallywas on the clock and every month
I was going, you know, look atmy bank account and it would go
less and less and less and less.
I was literally on this clockto like make this thing work.
And when we sold that company Ithink I had, like I don't know,
five months of runway left orso in my personal bank account.
(26:31):
And so, yeah, I think, obviously, as an entrepreneur, as a
founder, the real anxiety comesfrom the risk you take.
And I think that's also why it'stough to be a founder,
especially in the early days,because you have to be willing
to kind of work through thatrisk and you know, I was lucky
(26:56):
that it came out on the otherend.
But obviously, you know, youdon't know why you're in it,
right?
And so I think the mostanxiety-inducing moments is
really the ones where you knowthings are not going well and
you recognize even are not goingwell and, um, you recognize,
even for your personal career,your personal financials, you
(27:16):
know, and so on, that um thatyou will, or where you're kind
of realizing the risks thatyou've taken.
I think those are the truemoments where you're getting
like the true anxiety, um, butyeah, to your point, like you
have to invest and if it'sdirectly into the company or is
it's the personal burn that youhave, you know, and so on.
Um, I think that is, I thinkit's maybe impossible to truly
(27:40):
be successful at your venture,um, without you being willing to
take those types of risks.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
I want to go back to Publix um audience and client
base.
So you know, clearly, on theretail side you're trying to
democratize things for theretail investor.
There is this perception outthere that retail is, you know,
in quotes naive, or they call inquotes the money, versus the
so-called smart money which isinstitutional investors.
(28:07):
And increasingly obviously, asyou know, you know, the market's
being driven more by retailflows anyway and retail has much
more access to information.
Do you get a sense that retailjust knowledge-wise and I know
this is kind of a broad sweepingstatement but that they really
have the same kind of advantagesnow in terms of just
information access that the realbig boys do?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
I think the honest answer is you don't really know,
because you don't truly knowwhat kind of information certain
people have access to, right,but I completely agree that this
notion of like retail that's adumb money is kind of a little
bit of a dumb opinion.
Um, because it's, uh, because inmost cases it's simply not true
, and you have seen many momentswhere retailers outperforming,
(28:49):
you know, hedge funds in massiveregards, you know, and so, um,
that is just a little that isjust stupid, right and um, and I
think even in like, even if youlooked at like you know, the
oldest of wall street bets andstuff, like there was some real
proper fundamental research inthere that people have shared
(29:13):
and um, and so you realize thatthere's like a lot of really
smart retail investors in themarkets.
Um, now, whenever markets arehyped, is it because of, you
know, a trend like ai, orbecause of meme stocks, or
because of some crypto goingnuts or whatever.
(29:34):
You will also always have peoplefollowing and joining the
markets who have not done thatresearch, who do not have that
experience, and that risk, Ithink, always exists.
And I think where we, forexample, as a platform, see a
certain responsibility of like,we're not here to tell you what
to do, but we do, believe aresponsibility to give you as
much context as we can whileyou're active in the markets and
(29:58):
that's where Alpha comes inwith trying to tell you why the
chart was going up or down, forexample, giving you the access
to all the data in the best wayspossible, and so on, and giving
you these context cues asyou're out there Because there's
really you're out there becausethere's really smart retail out
there.
But whenever there's hype,there's also overconfidence and
(30:20):
there's, you know, people comingin who may have not done their
research yet and and I thinkthat there is some
responsibility to platforms likeourselves to make sure that you
know those people don't fall ontheir nose right away.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Is there anything the Schwab's, the world of fidelity
, the world can do to step in,just given the sheer number of
resources, and dramaticallychange the way the UI, the UX,
looks?
I mean, it seems to me that thereal advantage you have is that
you're not to use a KamalaHarris line, burdened by what
has been kind of thing.
(30:54):
I'm trying to think of anotherway of phrasing it, but yeah,
but you get what I'm asking,right?
I mean, you know, it seems likeyou've got the agility.
It's hard for anybody else toreally keep up.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, and I think it's not just like I said before
, like it's not just the UI,right, like, can you hire a nice
designer to make something alittle bit more pretty?
Yeah, maybe you can, but itdoesn't matter if you put the
saying of you put lipstick on apig or something right, where
the infrastructure behind it is30, 40, 50 years old and
(31:31):
therefore all the issues keepexisting and the error message
might come in a more beautifulmodel now, but the error message
is still coming.
And so I think where theincumbents struggle the most is
that most of the technology wasbuilt decades ago, and that's
where also just the risk comesin of not just downtimes but
(31:57):
also just the risks of data lossand whatnot.
And it's like if I would bewith a incumbent, that's what I
would be scared about.
I will be scared about theissues you can't really see
because they're not part of thebeautiful UI but they're in the
background, realizing that thebackend for this asset class was
built in 1992 and the backendfor this asset class was built
(32:20):
in 2004.
And those two backends don'ttalk to each other because they
were built by entirely differentteams at entirely different
times, entirely different techstacks and so on, and the people
maintaining them right now arerunning behind, maintaining them
every single day on, and thepeople maintaining them right
now are running behindmaintaining them every single
day.
Like that's, I think the issuethat incumbents much more have
is that their tech is holdingtogether on strings based off
(32:45):
old technologies that they'vebuilt over decades and decades,
and that's where companies likeours, who are just newer, have
an advantage, because our techstack, you know, like the oldest
tech we have is, you know, callit, three, four years old,
right and so on.
So, which is just a massivedifference for stability and
everything.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Any interesting insights.
I don't know if you have anyoff the top of your head.
From an aggregate level, as faras where a lot of public
investors are investing or maybeactually trading meaning, is it
the MAG7?
Is it levered ETFs?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I mean, where's the flow going?
Vast majority just equities andcalled the MAG7s, and some of
the retail related ones calledagain.
No financial advice, justsharing some information here,
but like the Palantirs, the Hemsand Hers and so on, where
(33:42):
there's just retail-heavyownership, those are obviously
also the types of stocks that wewill see high up in the
rankings as well.
In our case, this is justownership of people who own it
and the AUM within it and so on.
And the other piece that we'reseeing a lot of still fixed
income, especially now with therate cuts.
Some of them happened, calledand paused for now for a better
(34:04):
wording.
But what that means is that ratecuts are generally on the
horizon.
The general consensus is stillthat there will be more rate
cuts coming, and what we'reseeing a lot of people do is
right now to lock in higheryields for cash they don't need
in the next 6-12 months, usingbonds.
(34:25):
And if it's treasuries from thegovernment or if it's corporate
bonds from, just like, largerand more established companies,
but just this notion of can Ilock in 4, five, six, seven, you
know, 8% yields, just likebasically guaranteed with bonds.
That's behavior we're seeingmuch more and more and more.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, and, as I recall, you built out a fairly
robust bond screener tool nottoo long ago, so you're seeing
that there's more interest onbonds in general.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, 100%.
And the other thing we have alsodone as well, because bonds
might be a super old asset class, but it's actually fairly new
to most retail, because the lasttime rates were this high was
literally pre-iPhone, and sothere's a whole generation of
investors who grew up in themarkets at a time where bonds
were irrelevant and thensuddenly rates went up now a few
years ago, and suddenly bondsbecame relevant again, and now
(35:20):
rates are being cut again, andso now the question is how long
will it take for the next iPhoneto come out before rates will
be again this high?
Hence why people are trying tolock these things in.
And then one thing we've doneas well, because bonds are so
new, and if you look at thechart, the chart will have two
lines, and so it can beconfusing to some people, and so
we've also built these bondaccounts, one with corporate
(35:42):
bonds underlying and one with UStreasuries underlying, where
the experience is moresimplified, where more feels
like an account type, where youjust deposit money, it
automatically gets invested intoa diversified batch of these
bonds and then you just sit backand earn that yield, and so it
feels more like an account.
Hence we call them bondaccounts or treasury account,
(36:06):
and that is really somethingwhere we've seen most of the
adoption in bonds, because itjust makes it so much simpler
for people and they don'tnecessarily have to do the
research to figure out which ofthe bonds of Apple they might
want to buy or whatever companythey might look at.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I know you also occasionally do some events and
on the ground marketing.
From that standpoint, are yougoing to invite me to one of
those again?
I'm pretty sure you got aninvite.
I did get an invite.
I 100% did it.
I was somewhere else, Icouldn't do it.
I would have another meeting.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Actually one last week.
I couldn't make that that.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I didn't know about.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Apparently it was a beautiful restaurant in the
middle of New York.
You can just pop over.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
I'll be easy enough, I will not relent.
Sure it'll be obvious who I amand then that's it.
Okay, so maybe kind of for somefinal thoughts here.
So futures bright for thecompany.
Got this big round of funding,a lot of things in the pipeline.
Aside from the AI end of things, anything else that you have
(37:13):
pending that you know, maybe youcan do a little spoiler alert
that you know, maybe those thatare existing investors in public
or considering using public youknow, should be aware of.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I can't really give you like a proper spoiler, um
but um, we keep building out ourcrypto offering as well.
I'll I can say that if you careabout such things.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Well, whether I care about it or not, there's one
thing I know from the app worldand from the world in general
you are not your user right.
So it's like if the user wantsit, then you've got to give it
to them.
And if Trump is the pro-cryptopresident which we'll see how
things play out on that end yeah, I mean, clearly the space is
going to keep growing and theregulatory environment is going
to be favorable and actuallythat's a good, maybe closing
(37:56):
direction.
I'm curious if you have anysort of big picture thoughts on
deregulation which is going toimpact everybody.
I saw some headline around, Ithink a certain amount of SEC
employees were offered an amountto retire recently.
I just saw that kind ofrandomly on X.
But how does deregulationimpact what public is doing?
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, and the funny thing is in talking about crypto
, it's not even deregulation,it's actually quite opposite of
like actually creatingregulation and the issue that
around crypto was this thing ofthat, it was, you know,
regulation by enforcement, wherewere no guidelines out there
and then enforcement washappening against virtually all
(38:40):
companies in the space around us.
And now everyone's obviouslyhoping for just more clear
guidelines and I do believe thatwill come under this
administration and we'll seewhat those exactly will be and
you'll see kind of littlepockets come out, like this
whole notion of like, hey, memestocks, sorry, like meme coins
(39:01):
are not securities, like thatwas already now said out loud by
the SEC and so on, and so wewill see more of that.
But I think it's actually oncrypto side specifically, is
actually the opposite ofderegulation, is actually
finally having some rules sothat some safety also for
customers can be created andsome clarity for the companies
(39:23):
involved can be created.
And I think it's actually superimportant on crypto because
crypto is the one asset classthat was born retail.
It was the asset class that thefirst people that could reach
on crypto were regular people.
It was not the big hedge fundpeople and so on, and so many
Americans are invested in cryptoand have serious money in
crypto, and so it's only theresponsible thing to do to make
(39:49):
sure that there's some properregulation and guidelines around
those assets in order to notharm the people that own it.
And I think what actuallyhappened before through this
regulation, through enforcement,that it also had a lot of
negative impacts on crypto notjust talking value, but also
(40:10):
just what you can trade whereand people getting liquidated in
certain platforms and so on,and I would say that actually
had a lot of negative effects onretail at that time, because
people got sold out at momenttimes where they maybe shouldn't
have, and so on.
And so I think that is like Iam excited about what's to come
(40:31):
there.
And then, in terms of likederegulation, I would call
deregulation, I would call it,you know, potentially just like
more business friendly, and so Ithink we will see that in the
M&A markets just coming, youknow, more to fruition again and
so on.
Like we were kind of in aborderline M&A standstill where
(40:54):
a bunch of companies you know ofcompanies started to not buy
other companies anymore becauseit felt everything was falling
through.
I remember this one case of aluxury handbag company to be
acquired by this other holdingof luxury fashion goods which
was shut down for thatacquisition to happen.
And to be very honest,personally, I was looking at
(41:20):
that and be like this isliterally a luxury handbag
company where things likescarcity of product is part of
the product strategy and stufflike that.
How is this a monopoly?
How does this help to goagainst the creation of
monopolies in luxury headbandmarkets?
It just felt so out of norm andso I feel like there's just a
(41:44):
little bit of morelevel-headedness that will
happen around things like M&A.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Closing thoughts here as far as those that are
watching.
I appreciate those that arepaying attention to this
sponsored podcast by Public.
Why choose Public now, andwhere can people actually go and
sign up to Public?
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Go to publiccom to sign up Few things If you want
to lock in some, some yield asit's here, as the yields are
still high with the bondsaccounts, check that out.
Super nice and simpleexperience.
Number two try Alpha.
Try to break it.
Tell us what doesn't work.
Tell us what you can find Alphadoesn't know.
(42:23):
We'll try to fix it and try tomake it better.
A lot of progress happeningthere and then, generally
speaking, you know, if you'rehere to take your investing a
little bit more serious,consider us, we might be the
place for you.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Again, folks, this has been an edited podcast.
This is a sponsoredconversation by Public.
I'm a fan of everything thatLife is doing with his team and
I think all of you should checkout Public at, of course,
publiccom.
Congrats Life, and if youhappen to throw that party I'm
not far away keep me posted.
Thank you very much, appreciateit.
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