December 4, 2025 • 35 mins
In this special Lead-Lag Live webinar sponsored by GraniteShares, Michael Gayed brings together some of the biggest YouTube creators in the income-investing space for a fresh, free-flowing conversation on weekly dividends, options-based income ETFs, yield strategies, and the rise of “living free from your brokerage account.”
Featuring leaders from across the ETF and income-investing world, this session dives into:
- Why weekly dividend ETFs have exploded in popularity
- The psychology behind income now vs long-term growth
- How YieldBoost works — and how it differs from traditional covered calls
- Myths and misunderstandings about options-based income
- How creators and investors actually use weekly distributions
- Global demand for passive-income tools
- How income ETFs behave in a rate-cutting cycle
- New launches from GraniteShares, including semiconductors & gold miners
If you’re looking to build income, understand the mechanics of modern ETF strategies, or learn from creators who have built massive communities in this space — this conversation is packed with practical insight.
#GraniteShares #YieldBoost #Dividends #ETFs #Investing
Start your adventure with TableTalk Friday: A D&D Podcast at the link below or wherever you get your podcasts! Sign up to The Lead-Lag Report on Substack and get 30% off the annual subscription today by visiting http://theleadlag.report/leadlaglive.
Youtube: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgB6B-mAeWlPM9KzGJ2O4cU0-m5lO0lkr&si=W_-jLsiREjyAIgEs
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/75YJ921WGQqUtwxRT71UQB?si=4R6kaAYOTtO2V
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
We should have a good turnout for today's webinar
sponsored by Granite Chairs.
It's gonna be a very differenttype of webinar because as
you'll see, there's more thanjust me and Will uh here.
There's uh some very handsomeyoung men as well.
We're gonna be talking about uhnot just uh their their skincare
routine, but also uhoptions-based income strategies.
Uh, these are influencers,especially in the YouTube space.
(01:45):
Each of them have phenomenalYouTube channels.
We'll touch on each of theirbackgrounds, but uh hopefully
it'll be a good conversation.
For those that are here for theCE credits, I will email you
after this webinar, get yourinformation, and we'll try to uh
get you that C credit.
And of course, if you have anyquestions during this
conversation, put in the QA.
We'll address it towards theend.
But like I said, this is gonnabe a very different free-flowing
conversation.
(02:05):
So, with that said, my name isMichael Gayad.
This webinar is sponsored byGranite Shares.
I think it might make sense tohave everybody introduce
themselves.
So let's start off with Mr.
Will Rind, uh, who's kind of animportant guy here.
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
Thank you.
And uh obviously good afternoon,everybody.
My name is Will.
Will Rind, founder and CEO ofGranite Shares.
We are an ETF issuer, so uhissue ETFs here in the US, uh in
European markets, um, and activein Asia as well, based in New
York City.
SPEAKER_03 (02:34):
Mr.
Jordan Collier, who Collier?
I want to say Collier because itsounds French.
SPEAKER_04 (02:39):
Everybody does, you and everybody makes those same
assumptions.
They think it's French.
No, it's Collier.
Uh, I run a channel call covercalled ETF Investing, focusing
on just that, uh, incomeinvesting strategies through uh
ETFs uh up here in Canada.
Which has some Frenchinfluences, by the way.
Uh let's go.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
Yeah, Spencer Dunbar, who recently got
married.
Spencer from Spencer Invest.
I talk about a lot of thingsthese days, adding a little bit
of growth, but my primary breadand butter content is weekly
dividend ETFs that have kind ofexploded in popularity.
So Mr.
Marcos.
SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
Hello, my name is Marcos.
I run Marcos Mia YouTube channeltalking about everything ETFs
from income to growth andeverything in between.
I also host the number one showfor ETF issuers and influencers
um talking about the ETFs.
And I think that's the that'salways gonna be the goal.
So I really uh appreciate youhaving me, Michael.
SPEAKER_03 (03:34):
And of course, Todd, who's got a telescope in the
background because he wants togo to the movie.
SPEAKER_05 (03:39):
Yeah, um, one day.
Um yeah, I run unconventionalwealth ideas, and uh we focus on
living free out of yourbrokerage account.
You know, not only just tryingto outperform the markets, which
we're currently beating all ofthe indexes, even during the
recent decline, we're stillbeating the indexes.
Uh, we're trying to not only dothat, but live free out of our
(04:01):
brokerage accounts.
SPEAKER_03 (04:02):
What about a Spencer first?
Um, you said these strategies,these weekly strategies, income
strategies have exploded inpopularity.
First of all, the fact that youguys built a following uh is a
tremendous accomplishment.
I know how hard YouTube is.
I want to get your take,Spencer, and then maybe
everybody else kind of chime in.
Why is it that there's been suchpopularity for weekly income
(04:23):
strategies?
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
I think it comes down to the simple uh, I don't
want to say greed, drive, Ishould say, of people wanting
money as soon as possible.
And it blows my mind a littlebit.
I've actually received quite afew comments over the last six
months.
I do deep dives into the weeklypayers and track them.
And there is actually a prettyvast audience of people that
would prefer a fund that paysweekly over monthly, even if the
(04:47):
monthly paying ETF outperformsthe weekly.
So the drive for cash flow umfor weekly dividends is there.
It's just there is it's growingin popularity.
Um and it seems I'm not sure ifit's an older audience, a
younger audience.
I kind of get a mix of it.
I get a uh kind of the best ofboth worlds where young people
want money now, and older peoplethat are in retirement or that
(05:08):
are looking to retire or justlooking to have higher level
levels of cash flow areinterested in getting it weekly
over monthly.
SPEAKER_03 (05:14):
So Will, I remember at uh a conference you and I
were at, you were a speaker andyou were mentioning some stats
around the growth being likeunbelievable.
You threw some numbers out.
I don't know if you want to kindof re-regurgitate that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Certainly the the interest is is massive.
I mean, the numbers will willchange, but it's you know,
billions of dollars um worth ofinterest in this category.
And I think you know, Todd saidsomething that um you know
really reminds me, I think, ofwhat's going on, and that's you
know, the living fruit livingfree out of a brokerage account.
(05:46):
And maybe that the sort of theriff on that, which I come
across time and time again, isjust people wanting um some
financial freedom more broadlyand the ability to sleep at
night.
And I think where specificallythese income strategies have
become so popular is peoplereally just have one income
(06:06):
source in their life, and that'stypically their job.
Or if you're retired, then it'syour primary um source that
you've created.
And particularly for people Ithink that are working, it's
this desire to have a secondarysource of income independent
from your job.
And that could be, you know, forjob security, if you were to
lose your job, it could be forjust to help with um, you know,
(06:29):
monthly expenses, etc.
But I I get the sense that moreand more this is becoming a more
popular movement, not just herein the US, but globally, that
people are trying to create umincome streams, passive income
streams, you know, beyond thenine to five that they have.
SPEAKER_03 (06:47):
Let's touch on that globally point, because I see
Jordan, you're nodding yourhead, right?
I mean, you're in Canada.
Uh which is which isinteresting, right?
That you've got obviously non-UScontent creators focusing on
this category.
SPEAKER_04 (06:59):
Yeah, um, for sure.
And I think uh Will, you'reyou're absolutely right about
that.
I think what people see in theincome strategy is opposed to
growth, which uh really relieson price appreciation, maybe
still working your nine to fiveto contribute more to the growth
strategy.
And so it really relies on thatprimary income source, whereas
(07:22):
the income strategy, uh, andespecially in my experience,
right?
I I work full-time at a at ashipyard in in Vancouver,
British Columbia.
And um and and that's exactlywhat I see.
People see me taking, you know,a lot of time off, you know,
like one day, two days,potentially every c every couple
of weeks, and it and it's not itdoesn't really impact me in any
(07:45):
really serious way.
So even people that work with meand and interact with me, they I
can see it, it, it's uh it's aninfectious uh kind of uh
movement.
And people want more of that.
They want more, they wanna, theyessentially want to just
purchase more independence,purchase more time for
themselves, and they get thatthrough the income strategy.
SPEAKER_03 (08:05):
I saw I saw Marcos was uh at a conference in uh
California, and he was bringinghis camera and he was
interviewing different uh fundissuers and companies.
(08:51):
Uh Marcos, I think you built anice following.
You mentioned that you'recovering all kinds of topics.
Do you find that the incomeoptions-based income strategies
tend to get the most tractionand attention?
I'm curious kind of what you'reseeing in terms of where demand
for content is.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
And I'm gonna kind of touch on like Spencer's point
of like people saying that theywant more income and the reasons
like why.
So this is like a big, a bigbelief I have is you know,
(09:59):
financial instability.
That's kind of my thoughtprocess of people thinking that
you know things might be tooexpensive, fears of losing a
job, kind of like what Willsaid, is just that that fear and
people just wanting income nowand they're willing to trade off
in capital upside for thatstream of income, which I find
pretty bizarre.
I'd rather just go for growthand then let that compound sell
(10:19):
it off at a way moretax-efficient manner.
But that's the reason why, youknow, something like rential
shares and yield boost and allthese other issues are coming
out with innovative productsthat allow people to get income
now weekly and hopefully have agood strategy for their
portfolio.
SPEAKER_03 (10:34):
I I think a lot of people that are familiar with
these options-based strategiesare familiar with cover calls,
right?
As the sort of primary way togenerate the income.
What you do with yield boost isreally quite different.
Uh let's talk about it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
I mean, there's definitely a part of it that's
very different, but also a partthat's quite similar.
And, you know, covered calls isprobably the brand name that
that people are are mostfamiliar with in terms of an
options income strategy.
And instead of selling a calloption, we sell a put option.
So the payoff is is identical.
(11:06):
Um, where yield boost differs isthat with a traditional covered
call strategy, there's nodownside protection.
So you sell the call option umto generate the income.
And then if the underlying goesdown, you have exposure to that
downside movement.
Where yield boost is differentis we buy a put option at the
same time.
So we create a spread.
(11:28):
We call this um a put spread,um, a bullish put spread.
And this involves both selling aput option to generate income
and buying a put option to offersome downside protection.
So you effectively have adefined outcome for that week's
uh movement.
SPEAKER_03 (11:45):
How low is that floor?
I mean, uh is it it changesweekly?
Talk about the mechanics forthat.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah, I mean that that's obviously where the the
management comes in, and there'sum an element to that where as
the manager we can decide youknow where to put that.
I mean, I think, you know, firstand foremost, these are designed
to manufacture income andthey're designed to manufacture,
you know, high levels of income.
So we do that as the primaryobjective.
(12:12):
The secondary objective is likeI said to generate some downside
protection.
Typically, we sell um optionsthat are close to at the money
for the income generation, andthen we buy uh put options which
are roughly around one standarddeviation out of the money, so
slightly out of the money.
SPEAKER_03 (12:30):
Go to uh my boy Todd here.
Um I want to call you themythbuster, right?
Can I call you the mythbuster?
SPEAKER_05 (12:37):
Absolutely.
I'll take that.
SPEAKER_03 (12:38):
All right, so let's bust some myths when it comes to
options-based income strategies,cover call strategies, and what
you're seeing out there.
I see you do these spaces, I seeyou come in and you you you you
know, in the old spard, you endup you know talking about things
which uh people don't want totalk about, which is around
NAFAR ocean, but let's talkabout that.
SPEAKER_05 (12:57):
Again, thanks for having me, guys.
And, you know, I know thesedividends that we get are quite
large.
You know, a lot of differentfund managers have these, you
know, higher yields these days.
And like we all spoke, you know,about on the panel, you know,
yeah, 50% of people are paycheckto paycheck, and so they're
looking for extra income.
So they're going for places toget that.
And then when they look at thecharts of these companies, they
(13:18):
see that the charts aredeclining.
So the investment's declining.
And all you have to do is justfactor back in dividends, and
then you see a different chart.
It looks like a completelydifferent chart.
Try Morningstar.
I we I don't get paid by anybodyhere.
I'm just saying Morningstar,nothing, you know, no, no, I
don't get paid by granite sharesor anyone.
I just, you know, I have my ownportfolio and I get very
(13:39):
passionate about this because weearn over a million per year in
dividends, but people think thatthat's all fake, you know,
because you know, the funds aredeclining and the charts are
declining.
And so this is just a completefalse narrative that I'm
pushing.
But again, we're outperformingall the indexes.
And I think, you know, again,people just need to factor back
in dividends, use a Morningstar,go to the funds website, go to
(14:02):
Grand Shares website, go toeveryone's website, and you'll
see their total returns.
And also on a day-to-day basis,you know, I think they have this
misconception that these are sorisky, they're falling.
But yeah, maybe you're talkingabout maybe uh some
Bitcoin-related areas of themarket or some small caps, you
know, or some high beta growthareas.
(14:23):
But, you know, some things thatI like, for example, with
granite shares, and again, Idon't get promoted by anyone.
I I don't get paid forpromotion.
I just want to throw that outthere.
SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Um, granite shares, I mean, yeah, they're making a
million dollars in dividend, hedoesn't need to get paid by the
Michael.
SPEAKER_05 (14:37):
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
And, you know, I I know thatGranite Shares has, you know,
some of those, you know, likeMag 7 names that I think are all
wonderful names if you just goby their statistics.
Obviously, look at theirperformance over the last 10
years.
But then he also, you know, I uhWill, you know, I was speaking
about Will, but Granite Shares,you know, they have, you know,
(14:57):
indexed vehicles as well, likeYSPY, TQQY.
And I was just mentioning thisto Will before the podcast
started, was you know, thoseheld up really well during the
recent downturn in the marketbecause they're not tied to
those high beta areas, which alot of people think, you know,
all this stuff is just is justnonsense.
All these high yield names arefalling, but they're just
(15:19):
chasing the highest, you know,the higher beta names, the most
exciting meme stocks out therein some cases, like the coin
bases of the world or somethinglike that, the the micro
strategies.
And so if you have a totalapproach with your account and
you're staying basically tied tothe indexes and you keep the
other kinds of holdings smallerand weighted smaller in your
(15:39):
account, well, then you tend tofall with the indexes.
And so that's why we continue tooutperform even with margin, you
know, even with the leverage,we're still outperforming
because our dividends then comein and pay it on our margin,
which grows our performance.
And then our account grows atthe same time and our margin
debt falls.
It's really a great strategy, inmy opinion, if you do margin
conservatively.
And so again, I use um YSP, uh,Y SPY and TQQY.
(16:03):
I've been hiding out thererecently.
Everyone's been going to youknow, other funds.
I don't really want to mentionthem, but for the purposes of
this podcast, I am just sharingwhat works with me.
I have been going into thosebecause they have the put
option, like Will wasdescribing.
You know, they sell puts, whichI think it's another misnomer
here.
And I appreciate you letting me,you know, take the floor on
this, Michael, just a little bitbecause you know, a lot of
(16:24):
people think selling options isrisky or something.
But I know that when you sellputs, to me, it's one of the
more conservative ways to do it.
Warren Buffett did it withCoca-Cola, you know, he sells
puts on Coca-Cola.
And so when I saw the fundsthat, you know, Granite Shares
was offering, and you know,they're offering indexed funds
that also had puts with them.
So they might be using leveragedvehicles like uh a UPRO or an
(16:49):
SPXL or something to get their,to get their higher yield, but
they still outperformed in adown market recently.
Once again, I just want to tipmy hat off to you, you know,
Will, there, because you know,uh that was quite impressive and
that really helped me continueto outperform.
And if people just were aware ofall these facts, play this back.
If you if you didn't hear this,you know, play it back slowly,
(17:09):
you know, that would, you know,uh improve a lot of your results
when you invest.
SPEAKER_03 (17:14):
Will you just launched uh I think two other
yield boost funds recently.
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
Yeah, I mean, we're increasing the offering all the
time.
So we have um yield boost uhsemiconductor, which is a semi
um SEMY, and that's based uponuh an underlying semiconductor,
uh SOXL, which is a 3Xsemiconductor um ETF.
(17:37):
And then we also have uh YieldBoost Gold Miners, um, which
again follows the same theme,underlying leverage gold miners
index.
And I think again to Todd'spoint that this is really just
expanding the offering.
So it's not just aboutindividual names, it's about
broad indices, whether it be uhNasdaq or SP or more thematic um
(18:01):
indices in terms of gold miningstocks or or semiconductors, but
ultimately it's putting theinvestor in the driving seat,
which is you know taking a viewon what their particular flavor
of income looks like and the youknow, the the view, the
conviction they have around thatunderlying or that underlying
index.
And clearly there's a trade-offin terms of risk reward.
(18:23):
So your individual names um aregonna have all things being
equal, a much higher level ofincome than a broad index, but
there's you know also anincreased level of risk that
goes along with that.
Um so it's really just a youknow increasing the offering to
order to offer a broader rangeof um you know ideas and and
(18:46):
strategies that people want.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
Marcos, I want to go to you.
The um I I think people thinkabout some of these income
strategies, they think an entireportfolio is just made up of
these types of strategies.
I don't get the sense that yourportfolio is just that.
So assuming I'm right on that,how do you think about uh how
much you want to allocatetowards strategies like Yo
Boost?
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
So for my portfolio, I have uh it's funny because
whenever I do the interviews orlike the uh my content,
everybody's like, um, so we justhad 50,000 subscribers
yesterday.
It was awesome, it was amazing.
So we're gonna celebrate thisweekend.
Um and we get all these viewsand stuff, then people are like,
Marcus didn't have any likecover call products.
I'm like, well, I have adifferent strategy.
(19:24):
I just inner I'm just I'm justthe interviewer at this point,
but yeah, so no cover callstrategies, but with yield
boost, I'm not seeing a lot ofuh retail on Blossom and just
like on the comment section haveuh uh pretty sizable positions
in a few yield boost products,that being uh T SYY, NVYY.
And then usually the moresophisticated investors like
(19:46):
Todd, for example, would uselike Y Spy and TQQY um just
because there's like differentways to to use those strategies.
But I would say with grantshares and what yield boost is
doing right is kind of educatingthe investor because I would say
that um with Yield Boost, it'skind of more of a complex
product that people might notgrasp right away.
You know, you look at like a JEPor JEPQ, cover calls on the SNP
(20:10):
or the NASDAQ about when you'redoing these type of strategies
push threads, right?
It's it's more beneficial toeducate the investors.
So I love seeing Will'sinterviews.
SPEAKER_03 (20:20):
Which is an interesting point, Jordan,
right?
Because you can argue there'stwo types of investors, those
that just want the shiny objecthigh yield, and those that
actually want to know whatthey're investing in.
And I I see a lot of thecomments put around competitors
to yield boosts, which uh thereare many, but not max.
Um, but I I'm curious, I mean,as a content creator, do you
(20:43):
find it's it's do you findpeople really want to understand
how these things work, or dothey just see that yield and
that's it?
SPEAKER_04 (20:49):
No, they they do.
I uh and a good example of thisis uh I was in Toronto for the
uh uh the Blossom event that wasin September.
And and uh a lot of thesponsors, it was it was really
ho uh it was uh every booth waspretty much a cover call ETF
issuer.
It was that those were theprimary sponsors of the event.
(21:13):
And uh and uh one of the sp oneof the uh sponsors in particular
was just telling me uh they hada booth, and one of the fund
managers was telling me howthese retail investors are
coming to them with moresophisticated questions than
advisors are coming to them.
And he was uh quite surprised bythat.
And uh now to me, I'm notsurprised.
(21:34):
I've been doing this for almostthree years um with this
channel.
So um I get a lot of the samequestions as I know many of the
other creators do as well.
And I'm sure Michael N will, youdo as well.
We all we all tend to those samequestions.
These income investors, theywant to know.
This isn't a transient audience.
These are people that arecommitted, they want to watch.
You make an hour video, they'regonna watch an hour video,
(21:56):
right?
Not everybody, but there is a uhthere is a committed core that
really wants to know.
And they see people like myselfand and others who are using
these products and trying to usethem responsibly and not just uh
trying to uh just be willynilly.
Like we wanna be um, we wannaeducate our audience and we also
(22:18):
wanna be um.
you know, like good leads in inthe space as well.
SPEAKER_03 (22:23):
You use the word responsibly.
So Spencer, let's go with that.
Um do you find that the thepeople that receive these
distributions do they spend itor do they reinvest it or do
they reallocate it somewhereelse?
I mean what what are peopleactually doing with that that
payout?
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
As we move into an income centered space, I
initially started dividendinvesting using you know covered
calls to pay for my car payment.
And I realized after I paid offmy car, I was like, well what do
I use it for now?
And I just started reinvestingit instead.
And then hey bought a second caras it is with I wish I wish.
But what happened was it waspretty amazing because now I'm
(23:01):
like well now my mydistributions are are higher.
You know it's not miles higherbut I mean every week getting a
little bit more a little bitmore piled on top of it.
And so I find that there's acourse of a mix because the the
retirees that are looking tojust pull the money out and live
off of it.
But we're now seeing a youngeraudience utilize this and
there's so much you can do withit.
(23:21):
Yes you can use it to pay downyour student loans.
You can use it to you know helppay for rent for for a house.
But on top of that, once youstart piling it back in and
seeing the growth aspect to getcompounding involved and and it
really kind of changes the spacewhere income I call myself an
income investor, but I'm kind oflike a hybrid income growth
investor because I'm not justrelying on my income to live.
(23:44):
I don't spend any of mydividends all of it now is
reallocated either sometimes togrowth positions and then
sometimes back into the originalholdings as I'm getting paid.
And I think that's somethingthat's different that we're
seeing over the the last coupleof years.
It's kind of taking shape nowand people are realizing yes you
can you can be a hybridinvestor.
You don't have to go one or theother dividends or growth uh but
(24:06):
you can do whatever you wantwith the dividends and your cash
flow is up.
So I think that's a reallyimportant part.
And I think uh income investingcan get a bad rap from growth
investors.
But I like kind of showcasingthat you can do whatever you
want with it.
You don't have to pull the moneyout.
You can keep growing yourportfolios utilizing those
distributions.
SPEAKER_05 (24:22):
I agree with with everything Spencer was saying
including what Jordan and Marcoswere saying you know but I would
just add that you know I think alot of people just drip anything
uh and again that's not whatSpencer was saying right he has
an actual strategy with what hedrips but some people will just
kind of drip anything on autodrip and they should potenti you
(24:43):
know they should um you knowperhaps drip on dips in the
market and you know and they'renot only dripping they're not
only just auto dripping and andthey should be buying on wider
nets down and wider nets downbut they might be dripping some
of those higher beta names thatI just mentioned again instead
of dripping into the moreconservative index related funds
they're dripping everything andthey're wondering what's
(25:04):
happening to their performancethey're not they're not manually
dripping I guess you could sayyou know dripping on dips you
know and then watching theirallocations to your earlier
point Michael you know they'rethey're over allocated in the
high beta and in andunderallocated in the boring
index ETFs.
SPEAKER_03 (25:21):
And the whole uh category will really grew
because people wanted incomefrom growth, right?
I mean especially with bonds notreally being attracted.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
Yeah I mean that there's a number of I mean
clearly clear this is wherethere's a broad church of
investors and every everybody'sneed is different.
I think where I find a lot ofthis came from is in the mutual
fund world where you used tohave growth and income funds and
you used to have a fund thatkind of styled itself as giving
you both and actually what youended up with is not much growth
(25:54):
and not much income.
And I think one thing that theETF industry has done really
well is develop these hyperprecision tools that will
deliver you growth orhypergrowth or income or you
know significant amounts ofincome.
And you can assemble these toyou know meet whatever needs
that you have and that might beyou know if it's a need for for
(26:17):
income to cover specific thingsum if it's a need for growth if
it's a need for you knowwhatever it may be you can
assemble that you know veryprecisely now in a way that you
just couldn't do a few years agoand that's what you know the
benefit of of ETFs like thisallows you to do.
SPEAKER_03 (26:34):
So like everything else there's always competitors
right so I'm curious to hearfrom everybody if you see you
know one options based incomestrategy around NVIDIA from one
issuer versus another issuerwhat would make you choose a
particular fund?
Is it brand name?
Is it the strategy is it theyield itself is it the fee?
(26:54):
I'm I'm curious when you havedifferent types of products what
what makes you choose other topgo ahead.
SPEAKER_05 (26:58):
Yeah I I don't mean to just keep touting yield
boosts but I mean when you'replease do when you're yeah I
mean I'll say I'll say it yeah Iyeah I you know I I I'm not
trying to come off like that butit's just that when you're
investing in a turbulent marketor when you are using some
leverage, it's nice to have putoptions and it's nice to also
(27:18):
sell puts because selling putsis typically for me I've
experienced lower volatility youknow than just you know buying
let's say well selling puts islower volatility in the stock
itself you know and then whenyou're selling puts uh you know
you have all kinds of advantagesthat it brings you know we could
get into that later in thisdiscussion you know um but the
way that you sell puts with withthe buying of the put, you know,
(27:43):
it reduces your volatility youknow and you know a lot of these
competitors to your point theythey will sell some puts but a
lot of them don't add in a putyou know and that's what I
really like about yield boost.
And that's what again has beenholding up my portfolio so well.
Marcos should jump ball to youon on that one.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
Oh man I feel like a lot of investors are going to be
really tied down to a fewissuers.
I think my prediction is thatfor next year at least there's
going to be a lot of investorspiling into like two or three
issuers.
And I just firmly believe thatum it's gonna be like an arms
race to see you know we'reseeing outflows from a
particular issuer and people aretrying to figure out where to
(28:20):
allocate that money.
So they're gonna allocatetowards two to three maybe four
issuers max and that's kind ofgoing to be their um their home.
But I would say for certainstrategies though there's
issuers that come out with youknow highest income possible
leverage plus income that theydon't even do cover calls but
they give you income and thenselling puts so there's going to
(28:42):
be like a whole different uhmenu of of strategies but I
firmly believe that we're gonnasee a lot of uh retail investors
pile into two or three um andit's gonna be a fun to see which
of those threes are I thinkwe're you could see inflows on
like ETFaction.com but I'mreally excited for what
everybody has to launch and Iknow a lot of other issuers are
(29:03):
launching really cool productsin December and I want to see
what happens in 2026.
So it's gonna be a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_04 (29:09):
Marcos I uh I remember like a couple years ago
and I was I remember speakingwith uh Adriano we did an
interview and we were talkingabout how uh I we thought that
like well we're at the pinnacleof uh of launches and boy were
you know we were so wrong aboutthat and uh it just keeps
growing year after year afteryear.
So at this point I'm gonna holdjudgment on any of that next
(29:31):
year we'll be bigger than thisyear and uh I just think it'll
keep getting better and better.
But as as far as um as far aslike strategy strategies are
concerned with maybe the samemaybe the same ticker symbol on
it, I mean investors maybe thinkalso about you know just how
you're getting your uh totalreturn, right?
Is it uh is it how how much ofthat total return is wrapped up
(29:55):
in the income coming to youversus uh what you're getting in
the share price.
So this will more or lesscorrelate with the call option
writing coverage, right?
So up here in Canada, a commonstrategy up here, and this is
where uh other investors mightuh they they hear the words cap
upside.
Well a lot of the funds up herein Canada already have a
(30:17):
built-in hybrid strategy whereyou get you get exposure to say
50% on the portfolio call optionwriting and then the other 50%
is unbound it can do as theunderlying will perform.
So that that's also a a nicebenefit as well is that you
essentially get these two inones.
You don't have to say go to onefund just for an income and then
(30:40):
buy back the same you say thesame ticker without any sort of
uh option writing on it.
You get these sort of morehybrid um um uh uh strategies so
yeah in investors can always uhgo for those kinds of strategies
and just remember on that 50%that's what's going to get cup
cap on it get capped on theupside and then the other half
(31:01):
will allow for much more growthin that cover call ETF.
SPEAKER_03 (31:05):
Just a reminder folks I will be uh emailing
those that are here for the CEcredit after this webinar.
Will maybe I think it'd be goodfor you to kind of do a uh a
summary on yield boosts on grandshares um especially given that
we may or may not be an interestrate cutting cycle and what that
might mean for strategies likewhat you offer.
SPEAKER_00 (31:21):
You know the the premise of high yield clearly is
correlated with rates in thesense that um the lower that
interest rates go then the morepeople have demand for yield or
income um in the portfolio.
So you know crucially when rateswent to zero uh in COVID and
(31:43):
after COVID you had a hugeamount of interest in interest
in income that or yielding ETFyielding instruments that
yielded something and the higherthat they got the more
interesting that became and sonow you know we're in an
environment where it may not beright now, but at least the new
Fed share you know coming in andone would one would think that
(32:05):
the administration is clearlyinterested in rates being a lot
lower than they are today.
And therefore it will justfurther fuel this demand for
income.
I mean people's bills aren'tgoing down so whether it be car
payments, insurance payments,whatever it may be, so people's
(32:25):
income needs um are not goinganywhere.
And therefore you know the theability to manufacture income um
will continue to be as relevantas it's ever been.
SPEAKER_04 (32:36):
I think the other thing that's gone down in price
the last three years are turkeysuh I saw something some stat on
that forever that's like real uheverybody else here I'd like you
all to kind of talk about yourchannels uh and how people can
follow you so Jordan you firstyeah I mean very simply put you
can you can follow me on Blossomat cover calletf investing or on
YouTube covercalletfinvesting.com you'll see
(32:57):
just uh a bit of a hybridapproach between just interviews
i i talk a lot about you know mymy own personal journey and uh
you know making my way towardsfire having been doing this for
almost two and a half years sothat's where you can find me
Marcos yeah Marcos Mia onYouTube and posting a lot of
content so hopefully see youthere Spencer Spencer invests
(33:21):
everywhere I think I'm on nearlyevery social media app I'm on X.
SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
YouTube's the main platform TikTok Shaky on there
you know Instagram yeah I'mgonna talk all about weeklies
and I'm gonna continue trackingI usually buy a hundred dollars
of every weekly payer so I havea lot of the yield boost in that
portfolio now there's like Idon't even know 200 weekly
payers so it's getting a lotmore financially uh needing but
(33:45):
yeah follow me on there and ofcourse Todd who I'm telling you
you gotta do so yeah I want tosee like what you're looking at
from the telescope I want tojust I don't know what you're
looking at from that at night.
SPEAKER_05 (33:54):
Yeah um it's it's there's some pretty good views
out there.
Um uh yeah uh yeah you alwaysgive me you always talk to me
about my telescope it's uh it'sgreat seeing you Michael you
know and it's great seeingeveryone here follow me uh you
know at YouTube uhUnconventional Wealth Ideas you
can also go to my websiteunconventional wealthideas.com
(34:15):
and um also uh you can you knowcheck out our Discord we have
over 3,000 members there and weall we talk anything finance
related you know anything that'sum you know helping us live free
from non to five for graniteshares is full uh lineup of
products granite shares.comyou'll see yield boost as well
at liberty TFs and several otheruh institutional funds so thank
you buddy everybody forattending thank everybody
(34:35):
because hopefully this was aninteresting conversation I'll
release this as a podcast enoughand we'll see you all on the
next webinar sponsored byGranite shares thanks everybody
thank you take care guys greatgood seeing you all
We should have a good turnout for today's webinar
sponsored by Granite Chairs.
It's gonna be a very differenttype of webinar because as
you'll see, there's more thanjust me and Will uh here.
There's uh some very handsomeyoung men as well.
We're gonna be talking about uhnot just uh their their skincare
routine, but also uhoptions-based income strategies.
Uh, these are influencers,especially in the YouTube space.
(01:45):
Each of them have phenomenalYouTube channels.
We'll touch on each of theirbackgrounds, but uh hopefully
it'll be a good conversation.
For those that are here for theCE credits, I will email you
after this webinar, get yourinformation, and we'll try to uh
get you that C credit.
And of course, if you have anyquestions during this
conversation, put in the QA.
We'll address it towards theend.
But like I said, this is gonnabe a very different free-flowing
conversation.
(02:05):
So, with that said, my name isMichael Gayad.
This webinar is sponsored byGranite Shares.
I think it might make sense tohave everybody introduce
themselves.
So let's start off with Mr.
Will Rind, uh, who's kind of animportant guy here.
SPEAKER_00 (02:16):
Thank you.
And uh obviously good afternoon,everybody.
My name is Will.
Will Rind, founder and CEO ofGranite Shares.
We are an ETF issuer, so uhissue ETFs here in the US, uh in
European markets, um, and activein Asia as well, based in New
York City.
SPEAKER_03 (02:34):
Mr.
Jordan Collier, who Collier?
I want to say Collier because itsounds French.
SPEAKER_04 (02:39):
Everybody does, you and everybody makes those same
assumptions.
They think it's French.
No, it's Collier.
Uh, I run a channel call covercalled ETF Investing, focusing
on just that, uh, incomeinvesting strategies through uh
ETFs uh up here in Canada.
Which has some Frenchinfluences, by the way.
Uh let's go.
SPEAKER_02 (02:57):
Yeah, Spencer Dunbar, who recently got
married.
Spencer from Spencer Invest.
I talk about a lot of thingsthese days, adding a little bit
of growth, but my primary breadand butter content is weekly
dividend ETFs that have kind ofexploded in popularity.
So Mr.
Marcos.
SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
Hello, my name is Marcos.
I run Marcos Mia YouTube channeltalking about everything ETFs
from income to growth andeverything in between.
I also host the number one showfor ETF issuers and influencers
um talking about the ETFs.
And I think that's the that'salways gonna be the goal.
So I really uh appreciate youhaving me, Michael.
SPEAKER_03 (03:34):
And of course, Todd, who's got a telescope in the
background because he wants togo to the movie.
SPEAKER_05 (03:39):
Yeah, um, one day.
Um yeah, I run unconventionalwealth ideas, and uh we focus on
living free out of yourbrokerage account.
You know, not only just tryingto outperform the markets, which
we're currently beating all ofthe indexes, even during the
recent decline, we're stillbeating the indexes.
Uh, we're trying to not only dothat, but live free out of our
(04:01):
brokerage accounts.
SPEAKER_03 (04:02):
What about a Spencer first?
Um, you said these strategies,these weekly strategies, income
strategies have exploded inpopularity.
First of all, the fact that youguys built a following uh is a
tremendous accomplishment.
I know how hard YouTube is.
I want to get your take,Spencer, and then maybe
everybody else kind of chime in.
Why is it that there's been suchpopularity for weekly income
(04:23):
strategies?
SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
I think it comes down to the simple uh, I don't
want to say greed, drive, Ishould say, of people wanting
money as soon as possible.
And it blows my mind a littlebit.
I've actually received quite afew comments over the last six
months.
I do deep dives into the weeklypayers and track them.
And there is actually a prettyvast audience of people that
would prefer a fund that paysweekly over monthly, even if the
(04:47):
monthly paying ETF outperformsthe weekly.
So the drive for cash flow umfor weekly dividends is there.
It's just there is it's growingin popularity.
Um and it seems I'm not sure ifit's an older audience, a
younger audience.
I kind of get a mix of it.
I get a uh kind of the best ofboth worlds where young people
want money now, and older peoplethat are in retirement or that
(05:08):
are looking to retire or justlooking to have higher level
levels of cash flow areinterested in getting it weekly
over monthly.
SPEAKER_03 (05:14):
So Will, I remember at uh a conference you and I
were at, you were a speaker andyou were mentioning some stats
around the growth being likeunbelievable.
You threw some numbers out.
I don't know if you want to kindof re-regurgitate that.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
Certainly the the interest is is massive.
I mean, the numbers will willchange, but it's you know,
billions of dollars um worth ofinterest in this category.
And I think you know, Todd saidsomething that um you know
really reminds me, I think, ofwhat's going on, and that's you
know, the living fruit livingfree out of a brokerage account.
(05:46):
And maybe that the sort of theriff on that, which I come
across time and time again, isjust people wanting um some
financial freedom more broadlyand the ability to sleep at
night.
And I think where specificallythese income strategies have
become so popular is peoplereally just have one income
(06:06):
source in their life, and that'stypically their job.
Or if you're retired, then it'syour primary um source that
you've created.
And particularly for people Ithink that are working, it's
this desire to have a secondarysource of income independent
from your job.
And that could be, you know, forjob security, if you were to
lose your job, it could be forjust to help with um, you know,
(06:29):
monthly expenses, etc.
But I I get the sense that moreand more this is becoming a more
popular movement, not just herein the US, but globally, that
people are trying to create umincome streams, passive income
streams, you know, beyond thenine to five that they have.
SPEAKER_03 (06:47):
Let's touch on that globally point, because I see
Jordan, you're nodding yourhead, right?
I mean, you're in Canada.
Uh which is which isinteresting, right?
That you've got obviously non-UScontent creators focusing on
this category.
SPEAKER_04 (06:59):
Yeah, um, for sure.
And I think uh Will, you'reyou're absolutely right about
that.
I think what people see in theincome strategy is opposed to
growth, which uh really relieson price appreciation, maybe
still working your nine to fiveto contribute more to the growth
strategy.
And so it really relies on thatprimary income source, whereas
(07:22):
the income strategy, uh, andespecially in my experience,
right?
I I work full-time at a at ashipyard in in Vancouver,
British Columbia.
And um and and that's exactlywhat I see.
People see me taking, you know,a lot of time off, you know,
like one day, two days,potentially every c every couple
of weeks, and it and it's not itdoesn't really impact me in any
(07:45):
really serious way.
So even people that work with meand and interact with me, they I
can see it, it, it's uh it's aninfectious uh kind of uh
movement.
And people want more of that.
They want more, they wanna, theyessentially want to just
purchase more independence,purchase more time for
themselves, and they get thatthrough the income strategy.
SPEAKER_03 (08:05):
I saw I saw Marcos was uh at a conference in uh
California, and he was bringinghis camera and he was
interviewing different uh fundissuers and companies.
(08:51):
Uh Marcos, I think you built anice following.
You mentioned that you'recovering all kinds of topics.
Do you find that the incomeoptions-based income strategies
tend to get the most tractionand attention?
I'm curious kind of what you'reseeing in terms of where demand
for content is.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
And I'm gonna kind of touch on like Spencer's point
of like people saying that theywant more income and the reasons
like why.
So this is like a big, a bigbelief I have is you know,
(09:59):
financial instability.
That's kind of my thoughtprocess of people thinking that
you know things might be tooexpensive, fears of losing a
job, kind of like what Willsaid, is just that that fear and
people just wanting income nowand they're willing to trade off
in capital upside for thatstream of income, which I find
pretty bizarre.
I'd rather just go for growthand then let that compound sell
(10:19):
it off at a way moretax-efficient manner.
But that's the reason why, youknow, something like rential
shares and yield boost and allthese other issues are coming
out with innovative productsthat allow people to get income
now weekly and hopefully have agood strategy for their
portfolio.
SPEAKER_03 (10:34):
I I think a lot of people that are familiar with
these options-based strategiesare familiar with cover calls,
right?
As the sort of primary way togenerate the income.
What you do with yield boost isreally quite different.
Uh let's talk about it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
I mean, there's definitely a part of it that's
very different, but also a partthat's quite similar.
And, you know, covered calls isprobably the brand name that
that people are are mostfamiliar with in terms of an
options income strategy.
And instead of selling a calloption, we sell a put option.
So the payoff is is identical.
(11:06):
Um, where yield boost differs isthat with a traditional covered
call strategy, there's nodownside protection.
So you sell the call option umto generate the income.
And then if the underlying goesdown, you have exposure to that
downside movement.
Where yield boost is differentis we buy a put option at the
same time.
So we create a spread.
(11:28):
We call this um a put spread,um, a bullish put spread.
And this involves both selling aput option to generate income
and buying a put option to offersome downside protection.
So you effectively have adefined outcome for that week's
uh movement.
SPEAKER_03 (11:45):
How low is that floor?
I mean, uh is it it changesweekly?
Talk about the mechanics forthat.
SPEAKER_00 (11:50):
Yeah, I mean that that's obviously where the the
management comes in, and there'sum an element to that where as
the manager we can decide youknow where to put that.
I mean, I think, you know, firstand foremost, these are designed
to manufacture income andthey're designed to manufacture,
you know, high levels of income.
So we do that as the primaryobjective.
(12:12):
The secondary objective is likeI said to generate some downside
protection.
Typically, we sell um optionsthat are close to at the money
for the income generation, andthen we buy uh put options which
are roughly around one standarddeviation out of the money, so
slightly out of the money.
SPEAKER_03 (12:30):
Go to uh my boy Todd here.
Um I want to call you themythbuster, right?
Can I call you the mythbuster?
SPEAKER_05 (12:37):
Absolutely.
I'll take that.
SPEAKER_03 (12:38):
All right, so let's bust some myths when it comes to
options-based income strategies,cover call strategies, and what
you're seeing out there.
I see you do these spaces, I seeyou come in and you you you you
know, in the old spard, you endup you know talking about things
which uh people don't want totalk about, which is around
NAFAR ocean, but let's talkabout that.
SPEAKER_05 (12:57):
Again, thanks for having me, guys.
And, you know, I know thesedividends that we get are quite
large.
You know, a lot of differentfund managers have these, you
know, higher yields these days.
And like we all spoke, you know,about on the panel, you know,
yeah, 50% of people are paycheckto paycheck, and so they're
looking for extra income.
So they're going for places toget that.
And then when they look at thecharts of these companies, they
(13:18):
see that the charts aredeclining.
So the investment's declining.
And all you have to do is justfactor back in dividends, and
then you see a different chart.
It looks like a completelydifferent chart.
Try Morningstar.
I we I don't get paid by anybodyhere.
I'm just saying Morningstar,nothing, you know, no, no, I
don't get paid by granite sharesor anyone.
I just, you know, I have my ownportfolio and I get very
(13:39):
passionate about this because weearn over a million per year in
dividends, but people think thatthat's all fake, you know,
because you know, the funds aredeclining and the charts are
declining.
And so this is just a completefalse narrative that I'm
pushing.
But again, we're outperformingall the indexes.
And I think, you know, again,people just need to factor back
in dividends, use a Morningstar,go to the funds website, go to
(14:02):
Grand Shares website, go toeveryone's website, and you'll
see their total returns.
And also on a day-to-day basis,you know, I think they have this
misconception that these are sorisky, they're falling.
But yeah, maybe you're talkingabout maybe uh some
Bitcoin-related areas of themarket or some small caps, you
know, or some high beta growthareas.
(14:23):
But, you know, some things thatI like, for example, with
granite shares, and again, Idon't get promoted by anyone.
I I don't get paid forpromotion.
I just want to throw that outthere.
SPEAKER_03 (14:31):
Um, granite shares, I mean, yeah, they're making a
million dollars in dividend, hedoesn't need to get paid by the
Michael.
SPEAKER_05 (14:37):
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
And, you know, I I know thatGranite Shares has, you know,
some of those, you know, likeMag 7 names that I think are all
wonderful names if you just goby their statistics.
Obviously, look at theirperformance over the last 10
years.
But then he also, you know, I uhWill, you know, I was speaking
about Will, but Granite Shares,you know, they have, you know,
(14:57):
indexed vehicles as well, likeYSPY, TQQY.
And I was just mentioning thisto Will before the podcast
started, was you know, thoseheld up really well during the
recent downturn in the marketbecause they're not tied to
those high beta areas, which alot of people think, you know,
all this stuff is just is justnonsense.
All these high yield names arefalling, but they're just
(15:19):
chasing the highest, you know,the higher beta names, the most
exciting meme stocks out therein some cases, like the coin
bases of the world or somethinglike that, the the micro
strategies.
And so if you have a totalapproach with your account and
you're staying basically tied tothe indexes and you keep the
other kinds of holdings smallerand weighted smaller in your
(15:39):
account, well, then you tend tofall with the indexes.
And so that's why we continue tooutperform even with margin, you
know, even with the leverage,we're still outperforming
because our dividends then comein and pay it on our margin,
which grows our performance.
And then our account grows atthe same time and our margin
debt falls.
It's really a great strategy, inmy opinion, if you do margin
conservatively.
And so again, I use um YSP, uh,Y SPY and TQQY.
(16:03):
I've been hiding out thererecently.
Everyone's been going to youknow, other funds.
I don't really want to mentionthem, but for the purposes of
this podcast, I am just sharingwhat works with me.
I have been going into thosebecause they have the put
option, like Will wasdescribing.
You know, they sell puts, whichI think it's another misnomer
here.
And I appreciate you letting me,you know, take the floor on
this, Michael, just a little bitbecause you know, a lot of
(16:24):
people think selling options isrisky or something.
But I know that when you sellputs, to me, it's one of the
more conservative ways to do it.
Warren Buffett did it withCoca-Cola, you know, he sells
puts on Coca-Cola.
And so when I saw the fundsthat, you know, Granite Shares
was offering, and you know,they're offering indexed funds
that also had puts with them.
So they might be using leveragedvehicles like uh a UPRO or an
(16:49):
SPXL or something to get their,to get their higher yield, but
they still outperformed in adown market recently.
Once again, I just want to tipmy hat off to you, you know,
Will, there, because you know,uh that was quite impressive and
that really helped me continueto outperform.
And if people just were aware ofall these facts, play this back.
If you if you didn't hear this,you know, play it back slowly,
(17:09):
you know, that would, you know,uh improve a lot of your results
when you invest.
SPEAKER_03 (17:14):
Will you just launched uh I think two other
yield boost funds recently.
SPEAKER_00 (17:17):
Yeah, I mean, we're increasing the offering all the
time.
So we have um yield boost uhsemiconductor, which is a semi
um SEMY, and that's based uponuh an underlying semiconductor,
uh SOXL, which is a 3Xsemiconductor um ETF.
(17:37):
And then we also have uh YieldBoost Gold Miners, um, which
again follows the same theme,underlying leverage gold miners
index.
And I think again to Todd'spoint that this is really just
expanding the offering.
So it's not just aboutindividual names, it's about
broad indices, whether it be uhNasdaq or SP or more thematic um
(18:01):
indices in terms of gold miningstocks or or semiconductors, but
ultimately it's putting theinvestor in the driving seat,
which is you know taking a viewon what their particular flavor
of income looks like and the youknow, the the view, the
conviction they have around thatunderlying or that underlying
index.
And clearly there's a trade-offin terms of risk reward.
(18:23):
So your individual names um aregonna have all things being
equal, a much higher level ofincome than a broad index, but
there's you know also anincreased level of risk that
goes along with that.
Um so it's really just a youknow increasing the offering to
order to offer a broader rangeof um you know ideas and and
(18:46):
strategies that people want.
SPEAKER_03 (18:47):
Marcos, I want to go to you.
The um I I think people thinkabout some of these income
strategies, they think an entireportfolio is just made up of
these types of strategies.
I don't get the sense that yourportfolio is just that.
So assuming I'm right on that,how do you think about uh how
much you want to allocatetowards strategies like Yo
Boost?
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
So for my portfolio, I have uh it's funny because
whenever I do the interviews orlike the uh my content,
everybody's like, um, so we justhad 50,000 subscribers
yesterday.
It was awesome, it was amazing.
So we're gonna celebrate thisweekend.
Um and we get all these viewsand stuff, then people are like,
Marcus didn't have any likecover call products.
I'm like, well, I have adifferent strategy.
(19:24):
I just inner I'm just I'm justthe interviewer at this point,
but yeah, so no cover callstrategies, but with yield
boost, I'm not seeing a lot ofuh retail on Blossom and just
like on the comment section haveuh uh pretty sizable positions
in a few yield boost products,that being uh T SYY, NVYY.
And then usually the moresophisticated investors like
(19:46):
Todd, for example, would uselike Y Spy and TQQY um just
because there's like differentways to to use those strategies.
But I would say with grantshares and what yield boost is
doing right is kind of educatingthe investor because I would say
that um with Yield Boost, it'skind of more of a complex
product that people might notgrasp right away.
You know, you look at like a JEPor JEPQ, cover calls on the SNP
(20:10):
or the NASDAQ about when you'redoing these type of strategies
push threads, right?
It's it's more beneficial toeducate the investors.
So I love seeing Will'sinterviews.
SPEAKER_03 (20:20):
Which is an interesting point, Jordan,
right?
Because you can argue there'stwo types of investors, those
that just want the shiny objecthigh yield, and those that
actually want to know whatthey're investing in.
And I I see a lot of thecomments put around competitors
to yield boosts, which uh thereare many, but not max.
Um, but I I'm curious, I mean,as a content creator, do you
(20:43):
find it's it's do you findpeople really want to understand
how these things work, or dothey just see that yield and
that's it?
SPEAKER_04 (20:49):
No, they they do.
I uh and a good example of thisis uh I was in Toronto for the
uh uh the Blossom event that wasin September.
And and uh a lot of thesponsors, it was it was really
ho uh it was uh every booth waspretty much a cover call ETF
issuer.
It was that those were theprimary sponsors of the event.
(21:13):
And uh and uh one of the sp oneof the uh sponsors in particular
was just telling me uh they hada booth, and one of the fund
managers was telling me howthese retail investors are
coming to them with moresophisticated questions than
advisors are coming to them.
And he was uh quite surprised bythat.
And uh now to me, I'm notsurprised.
(21:34):
I've been doing this for almostthree years um with this
channel.
So um I get a lot of the samequestions as I know many of the
other creators do as well.
And I'm sure Michael N will, youdo as well.
We all we all tend to those samequestions.
These income investors, theywant to know.
This isn't a transient audience.
These are people that arecommitted, they want to watch.
You make an hour video, they'regonna watch an hour video,
(21:56):
right?
Not everybody, but there is a uhthere is a committed core that
really wants to know.
And they see people like myselfand and others who are using
these products and trying to usethem responsibly and not just uh
trying to uh just be willynilly.
Like we wanna be um, we wannaeducate our audience and we also
(22:18):
wanna be um.
you know, like good leads in inthe space as well.
SPEAKER_03 (22:23):
You use the word responsibly.
So Spencer, let's go with that.
Um do you find that the thepeople that receive these
distributions do they spend itor do they reinvest it or do
they reallocate it somewhereelse?
I mean what what are peopleactually doing with that that
payout?
SPEAKER_02 (22:39):
As we move into an income centered space, I
initially started dividendinvesting using you know covered
calls to pay for my car payment.
And I realized after I paid offmy car, I was like, well what do
I use it for now?
And I just started reinvestingit instead.
And then hey bought a second caras it is with I wish I wish.
But what happened was it waspretty amazing because now I'm
(23:01):
like well now my mydistributions are are higher.
You know it's not miles higherbut I mean every week getting a
little bit more a little bitmore piled on top of it.
And so I find that there's acourse of a mix because the the
retirees that are looking tojust pull the money out and live
off of it.
But we're now seeing a youngeraudience utilize this and
there's so much you can do withit.
(23:21):
Yes you can use it to pay downyour student loans.
You can use it to you know helppay for rent for for a house.
But on top of that, once youstart piling it back in and
seeing the growth aspect to getcompounding involved and and it
really kind of changes the spacewhere income I call myself an
income investor, but I'm kind oflike a hybrid income growth
investor because I'm not justrelying on my income to live.
(23:44):
I don't spend any of mydividends all of it now is
reallocated either sometimes togrowth positions and then
sometimes back into the originalholdings as I'm getting paid.
And I think that's somethingthat's different that we're
seeing over the the last coupleof years.
It's kind of taking shape nowand people are realizing yes you
can you can be a hybridinvestor.
You don't have to go one or theother dividends or growth uh but
(24:06):
you can do whatever you wantwith the dividends and your cash
flow is up.
So I think that's a reallyimportant part.
And I think uh income investingcan get a bad rap from growth
investors.
But I like kind of showcasingthat you can do whatever you
want with it.
You don't have to pull the moneyout.
You can keep growing yourportfolios utilizing those
distributions.
SPEAKER_05 (24:22):
I agree with with everything Spencer was saying
including what Jordan and Marcoswere saying you know but I would
just add that you know I think alot of people just drip anything
uh and again that's not whatSpencer was saying right he has
an actual strategy with what hedrips but some people will just
kind of drip anything on autodrip and they should potenti you
(24:43):
know they should um you knowperhaps drip on dips in the
market and you know and they'renot only dripping they're not
only just auto dripping and andthey should be buying on wider
nets down and wider nets downbut they might be dripping some
of those higher beta names thatI just mentioned again instead
of dripping into the moreconservative index related funds
they're dripping everything andthey're wondering what's
(25:04):
happening to their performancethey're not they're not manually
dripping I guess you could sayyou know dripping on dips you
know and then watching theirallocations to your earlier
point Michael you know they'rethey're over allocated in the
high beta and in andunderallocated in the boring
index ETFs.
SPEAKER_03 (25:21):
And the whole uh category will really grew
because people wanted incomefrom growth, right?
I mean especially with bonds notreally being attracted.
SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
Yeah I mean that there's a number of I mean
clearly clear this is wherethere's a broad church of
investors and every everybody'sneed is different.
I think where I find a lot ofthis came from is in the mutual
fund world where you used tohave growth and income funds and
you used to have a fund thatkind of styled itself as giving
you both and actually what youended up with is not much growth
(25:54):
and not much income.
And I think one thing that theETF industry has done really
well is develop these hyperprecision tools that will
deliver you growth orhypergrowth or income or you
know significant amounts ofincome.
And you can assemble these toyou know meet whatever needs
that you have and that might beyou know if it's a need for for
(26:17):
income to cover specific thingsum if it's a need for growth if
it's a need for you knowwhatever it may be you can
assemble that you know veryprecisely now in a way that you
just couldn't do a few years agoand that's what you know the
benefit of of ETFs like thisallows you to do.
SPEAKER_03 (26:34):
So like everything else there's always competitors
right so I'm curious to hearfrom everybody if you see you
know one options based incomestrategy around NVIDIA from one
issuer versus another issuerwhat would make you choose a
particular fund?
Is it brand name?
Is it the strategy is it theyield itself is it the fee?
(26:54):
I'm I'm curious when you havedifferent types of products what
what makes you choose other topgo ahead.
SPEAKER_05 (26:58):
Yeah I I don't mean to just keep touting yield
boosts but I mean when you'replease do when you're yeah I
mean I'll say I'll say it yeah Iyeah I you know I I I'm not
trying to come off like that butit's just that when you're
investing in a turbulent marketor when you are using some
leverage, it's nice to have putoptions and it's nice to also
(27:18):
sell puts because selling putsis typically for me I've
experienced lower volatility youknow than just you know buying
let's say well selling puts islower volatility in the stock
itself you know and then whenyou're selling puts uh you know
you have all kinds of advantagesthat it brings you know we could
get into that later in thisdiscussion you know um but the
way that you sell puts with withthe buying of the put, you know,
(27:43):
it reduces your volatility youknow and you know a lot of these
competitors to your point theythey will sell some puts but a
lot of them don't add in a putyou know and that's what I
really like about yield boost.
And that's what again has beenholding up my portfolio so well.
Marcos should jump ball to youon on that one.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
Oh man I feel like a lot of investors are going to be
really tied down to a fewissuers.
I think my prediction is thatfor next year at least there's
going to be a lot of investorspiling into like two or three
issuers.
And I just firmly believe thatum it's gonna be like an arms
race to see you know we'reseeing outflows from a
particular issuer and people aretrying to figure out where to
(28:20):
allocate that money.
So they're gonna allocatetowards two to three maybe four
issuers max and that's kind ofgoing to be their um their home.
But I would say for certainstrategies though there's
issuers that come out with youknow highest income possible
leverage plus income that theydon't even do cover calls but
they give you income and thenselling puts so there's going to
(28:42):
be like a whole different uhmenu of of strategies but I
firmly believe that we're gonnasee a lot of uh retail investors
pile into two or three um andit's gonna be a fun to see which
of those threes are I thinkwe're you could see inflows on
like ETFaction.com but I'mreally excited for what
everybody has to launch and Iknow a lot of other issuers are
(29:03):
launching really cool productsin December and I want to see
what happens in 2026.
So it's gonna be a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_04 (29:09):
Marcos I uh I remember like a couple years ago
and I was I remember speakingwith uh Adriano we did an
interview and we were talkingabout how uh I we thought that
like well we're at the pinnacleof uh of launches and boy were
you know we were so wrong aboutthat and uh it just keeps
growing year after year afteryear.
So at this point I'm gonna holdjudgment on any of that next
(29:31):
year we'll be bigger than thisyear and uh I just think it'll
keep getting better and better.
But as as far as um as far aslike strategy strategies are
concerned with maybe the samemaybe the same ticker symbol on
it, I mean investors maybe thinkalso about you know just how
you're getting your uh totalreturn, right?
Is it uh is it how how much ofthat total return is wrapped up
(29:55):
in the income coming to youversus uh what you're getting in
the share price.
So this will more or lesscorrelate with the call option
writing coverage, right?
So up here in Canada, a commonstrategy up here, and this is
where uh other investors mightuh they they hear the words cap
upside.
Well a lot of the funds up herein Canada already have a
(30:17):
built-in hybrid strategy whereyou get you get exposure to say
50% on the portfolio call optionwriting and then the other 50%
is unbound it can do as theunderlying will perform.
So that that's also a a nicebenefit as well is that you
essentially get these two inones.
You don't have to say go to onefund just for an income and then
(30:40):
buy back the same you say thesame ticker without any sort of
uh option writing on it.
You get these sort of morehybrid um um uh uh strategies so
yeah in investors can always uhgo for those kinds of strategies
and just remember on that 50%that's what's going to get cup
cap on it get capped on theupside and then the other half
(31:01):
will allow for much more growthin that cover call ETF.
SPEAKER_03 (31:05):
Just a reminder folks I will be uh emailing
those that are here for the CEcredit after this webinar.
Will maybe I think it'd be goodfor you to kind of do a uh a
summary on yield boosts on grandshares um especially given that
we may or may not be an interestrate cutting cycle and what that
might mean for strategies likewhat you offer.
SPEAKER_00 (31:21):
You know the the premise of high yield clearly is
correlated with rates in thesense that um the lower that
interest rates go then the morepeople have demand for yield or
income um in the portfolio.
So you know crucially when rateswent to zero uh in COVID and
(31:43):
after COVID you had a hugeamount of interest in interest
in income that or yielding ETFyielding instruments that
yielded something and the higherthat they got the more
interesting that became and sonow you know we're in an
environment where it may not beright now, but at least the new
Fed share you know coming in andone would one would think that
(32:05):
the administration is clearlyinterested in rates being a lot
lower than they are today.
And therefore it will justfurther fuel this demand for
income.
I mean people's bills aren'tgoing down so whether it be car
payments, insurance payments,whatever it may be, so people's
(32:25):
income needs um are not goinganywhere.
And therefore you know the theability to manufacture income um
will continue to be as relevantas it's ever been.
SPEAKER_04 (32:36):
I think the other thing that's gone down in price
the last three years are turkeysuh I saw something some stat on
that forever that's like real uheverybody else here I'd like you
all to kind of talk about yourchannels uh and how people can
follow you so Jordan you firstyeah I mean very simply put you
can you can follow me on Blossomat cover calletf investing or on
YouTube covercalletfinvesting.com you'll see
(32:57):
just uh a bit of a hybridapproach between just interviews
i i talk a lot about you know mymy own personal journey and uh
you know making my way towardsfire having been doing this for
almost two and a half years sothat's where you can find me
Marcos yeah Marcos Mia onYouTube and posting a lot of
content so hopefully see youthere Spencer Spencer invests
(33:21):
everywhere I think I'm on nearlyevery social media app I'm on X.
SPEAKER_02 (33:25):
YouTube's the main platform TikTok Shaky on there
you know Instagram yeah I'mgonna talk all about weeklies
and I'm gonna continue trackingI usually buy a hundred dollars
of every weekly payer so I havea lot of the yield boost in that
portfolio now there's like Idon't even know 200 weekly
payers so it's getting a lotmore financially uh needing but
(33:45):
yeah follow me on there and ofcourse Todd who I'm telling you
you gotta do so yeah I want tosee like what you're looking at
from the telescope I want tojust I don't know what you're
looking at from that at night.
SPEAKER_05 (33:54):
Yeah um it's it's there's some pretty good views
out there.
Um uh yeah uh yeah you alwaysgive me you always talk to me
about my telescope it's uh it'sgreat seeing you Michael you
know and it's great seeingeveryone here follow me uh you
know at YouTube uhUnconventional Wealth Ideas you
can also go to my websiteunconventional wealthideas.com
(34:15):
and um also uh you can you knowcheck out our Discord we have
over 3,000 members there and weall we talk anything finance
related you know anything that'sum you know helping us live free
from non to five for graniteshares is full uh lineup of
products granite shares.comyou'll see yield boost as well
at liberty TFs and several otheruh institutional funds so thank
you buddy everybody forattending thank everybody
(34:35):
because hopefully this was aninteresting conversation I'll
release this as a podcast enoughand we'll see you all on the
next webinar sponsored byGranite shares thanks everybody
thank you take care guys greatgood seeing you all
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