Living with Cancer: A Journey of Survival, Resilience and Advocacy with Dr. Denise Ejoh - E100 - Lead To Excel Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome, welcome, welcome.
You're tuning into the Lead toExcel podcast, the hub where
science meets leadership andtransformation begins.
I'm your host, maureen Cheyanna, founder of the Mindsite
Academy, a trailblazer in theworld of neuroleadership, I'm an

(00:23):
executive neurocoach,leadership transformer and a
neuroscience enthusiast,dedicated to empowering leaders,
entrepreneurs and changemakerslike you.
Every week, we delve into theheart of neuroscience to
discover how you can unleashyour potential, master your

(00:44):
brain, manage emotions yours andothers alter behaviors and
exceed expectations.
It's time to elevate yourleadership, to excel and so,
hire, let's dive right in.
Hello and welcome.
Back to another episode of Leadto Excel podcast, and today I

(01:07):
have a dear friend and sisterwith me, and I'm actually really
excited about this episode.
It's one that everyone needs tolisten to and one that I would
say everyone listening share,share, share, share, share.
You will get to know why wherewe start this podcast.
So, denise, it's a pleasure andit's an honor to have you on

(01:32):
the podcast today.
Thanks so much for saying yes.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Thank you, Maureen.
It's very nice to be here.
I'm not very familiar withpodcasts, but one of the good
things about it is I appreciatethis.
I am humbled to be asked to dothis.
I always say to people life isnot a right.
So I don't think this is aright, it's a privilege.

(01:59):
So thank you for the privilege.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
So, denise, I'm going to let'sstart by introducing you up.
If I will start by saying thatDenise and I went secondary
school together, so we'resecondary school sisters, so we
go back a long, long way andit's been great to reconnect
again, you know, after so manyyears apart.
So, denise, can you tell us abit about your background?

(02:23):
What you do?
I know one of the things thatwe love talking about as well is
our passion for education, soif you just tell us a bit about
you, that would be awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Thank you.
So my name is Denise Edo.
I am of Nigerian heritage.
I grew up in Nigeria, I wasborn in Nigeria.
I met Maureen in Nigeria in ourclass in Lagos, so everything
about me is very, very Nigerian.

(02:58):
I live in the UK now, butdifferent things and different
journeys have taken me a longway.
So who am I?
I am an educationist.
So I am, and I am proudly ateacher.
That is who I am and that'swhat I always say to people.
Every other accolade you get onthe teaching career is as a

(03:22):
result of being a teacher.
But you grow, go up the ladderand get other skills that take
you to different places.
What else have I got?
I am the CEO of a foundation,and that is as a result of
living with cancer.
So, to be able to marry my lifeand make things meaningful

(03:45):
because life should bemeaningful, I've put the two
together and I now work on both,both.
I have two sets of skill setsthat I think are important in
changing the positive, in makingus understand that our positive
mindsets are key in anything wedo.

(04:07):
In that light, I will say what'smy education background?
What am I interested in?
I'm very.
I'm into the education morethan my cancer is my charity.
My education is my career, ismy profession.
I am very involved inconsultancy across not just
Nigeria but very many places Infact.

(04:28):
I've just been told yesterdaythat I may have a project in
Tanzania and I will go andthat's going to fascinate you
when you get to really know whoI am.
That what does she mean?
She's going to Tanzania, butI'm going to Tanzania and I am
looking forward to it.
Anything to educate thechildren of this generation and

(04:50):
give them the tools to excel iscentral to whoever Dennis Uzoma
at your is, and that's it.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
Dennis, your name is Uzoma.
That is my new middle name aswell.
I didn't know that.
I didn't know that.
That is amazing, that is great.
So we had namesakes.
That's so, that's fantastic.
See how like those Exactly.
I actually didn't know that, sothat's fantastic.
Thank you so much, denise.

(05:20):
I think you know one of thethings that I would say is that
you are just an incredible womanin what you do and it's you
know how you mentioned thatyou're living with cancer and
you're truly living with it, inthe sense of even how you go
through life and everything youdo.
So I just want us to kind of goback a bit.

(05:41):
So you started off, as you knowwell, started off as teaching.
What did you study at uni?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Okay.
So that's interesting.
I didn't.
I didn't want to talk too much,that's why I didn't go there.
I went to university in a townin Nigeria called Sokoto.
Now, my degree is very funny.
My degree is University ofSokoto, but the university today
is called Usmandam FodioUniversity.
So I was the last graduatingset under the University of

(06:13):
Sokoto name.
I studied business management,majoring in finance.
I went on, I think I would liketo say now, to be honest, hands
out, I get bored.
I went on to do a master's inadvanced information technology
here in the UK and my mom saidyou know what?

(06:37):
Why don't you just go and be ateacher so you could have time
to spend with your children,because your life just seems to
be about them.
So I decided okay, let me goand try this teaching thing.
And the first day I walked into a classroom to observe, I
heard a child swear at a teacherand I flew to the door.

(06:59):
I was at the back and I ran tothe door.
I was like, oh my goodness,what's going on here and the way
she handled it.
I was not happy and I just saidto myself now, if this is what
it is, I want to be a teacherbecause children have to be
taught the skill sets to besuccessful in life, and we don't
we do not supposed to mothercall them, but rather teach them

(07:23):
to be good at what they have.
So find their strengths and useit.
And that's how I enjoyed andbecame a teacher.
I rose all through the rankstill I became a head of schools,
which means I was leading agroup of schools, Two different
sets, one in Lagos, one in Minabut the schools were like five

(07:46):
different schools with threedifferent curriculums.
In that time I was, I had aheadache and ended up finding
myself with cancer.
So I live with cancer.
I want to stop because this isthe education part.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, yeah, Thank you very much for that.
So you then discovered how longago did you did?
Was the diagnosis for cancermade?
How long ago has this been?

Speaker 2 (08:18):
We're in year eight, so I was seven years last August
when I was in year eight.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Right, okay, thank you very much.
So let's now talk about yourjourney, you know, living with
cancer and what you found out,because one of the things that I
just find incredible is howmuch awareness you're raising
about living with cancer andactually the diagnosis.

(08:45):
So if you kind of talk usthrough what cancer is this?
And if you give us your journeyof you know a bit of what
happened, how it was diagnosedand how you came to, I think
what I'm interested in is howdid you get to the point of you
know it's almost like acceptingthat okay, this is what it is

(09:08):
and now this is what I'm goingto do to give back, to help.
So I'm looking at more yourmind what happened when it was
diagnosed and how was thatjourney for you?

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Okay.
So I'm going to start and at apoint I'm going to stop, so that
you can rephrase it.
And I'm going.
When I get to that point, I'mgoing to tell you why I had to
stop.
Okay, Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
But let's go.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
So I was working, like I said, as heading a group
of schools and I enjoytravelling at that time.
Nigeria is very safe, so I justused to get on the train or get
on the bus, train and flightsall around Nigeria as I did, and
I kept having a persistentheadache.
I think I had a headache Iwould.

(09:53):
I got to a point where I wastaking a very strong drug called
kathagot for the headache and Icouldn't understand and I kept
saying why do I have theheadache?
At a point we got tested withmy hair ears because they used
to hurt.
They said there was nothingwrong with my ears.

(10:16):
Of course there was nothingwrong with my ears because by
the time I got diagnosed it wasa different journey.
I had this headache.
It wasn't going.
So in the end I went and hadbeen to six different hospitals
Now six very good hospitals.
So I'm not going to sit hereand say they were not good or
they didn't know their job,because even when I took the

(10:36):
same diagnosis to the UK, Istill had a similar reaction.
I did it and then I wasfortunate.
A family friend of mine saidcome, let's go and see this
doctor.
He's in town now let's see whathe has to say.
He's part of a hospital.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
So I went and took my bills and asked in Nigeria.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
And he said to me Denise, look, everything about
you is fine.
Now this is the sameconversation six hospitals have
told me.
So you know you hold on, eventhough your instincts telling
you is not.
And please bear in mind Ididn't say this, but my mum had
died of cancer ten months before.

(11:19):
So my mum died before but, I'vebeen diagnosed with cancer ten
months after.
But I somehow knew and I'mgoing to talk about my mum a lot
because she influences a lot ofmy story today so I said okay,
fine, and then did the man didthe test, everything.

(11:41):
He said there's nothing wrong.
But you know what?
We have an MRI scan in machinethat has been brought into the
hospital.
I would like you to do an MRIscan to your brain.
If that is clear, then I canguarantee you I'm not going
ahead with anything else.
You are fine.
Of course it wasn't clear.
As soon as I walked in there theguy halfway through they came

(12:04):
in and said we need to put theydon't use contrast, they use
word die Something differentinto your heart.
And they start to explain allthis.
I can't hear because I have anexcruciating headache and,
honestly, to lie on that bed wasjust not my cup of tea for that
deep.
And then I said what's theproblem?

(12:25):
And they said well, we can seesomething.
You see, they want to tell mewhat you can see.
I said okay, and they did allthe scans and they said we can
see a few tumours.
I think that was the word.
That's not the word they used.
They used the different word thebest tumours, but at the time

(12:45):
that was not the word they used.
Okay, and as soon as I walkedaway I knew I had a big problem.
In summertime I work in Nigeriabut I live in the UK, so I had
an expat in contract.
I was coming home for summer.
I said to my youngest daughterI said well, are you coming to

(13:06):
England with me?
She said no, I'm not comingwith you, just buy my stuff here
.
And she gave me her shoppinglist.
I thought, okay, now that we'vegot a problem, now let's see.
I said I'll get my results thenext day.
And I walked in to pick up thething and he had the disk of the
pictures and my scan and hereport.
And I opened the envelope andit said cancer.

(13:31):
And it had this list ofdifferent types of cancers.
Because, you know, once theynow say cancer, then it has to
be.
They have to say, becausethey've actually done a scan,
what do they think it could be,what kind of cancers?
And it had different kinds ofcancers.
And at the bottom, somewherealong it, I scanned and I saw
three months left, three monthsto live, and I thought myself

(13:57):
alright, I'm coming, it'salright now.
I sent my friends.
I got home and I was stilltrying to get my leave allowance
from my office, which I hadn'tgot for my ticket.
I just called a few of myfriends and I said you know, I
need to get out of Nigeria now.
I just got back home and I gotback to England and two days
later, I feel.
My friends immediately put themoney together and my ticket was

(14:19):
gotten that night and I flewout the following morning.
Now that I knew what was wrongwith me.
You have to understand.
You cannot allow the airline toknow that they're carrying the
passenger like this.
So I didn't even go there and Istarted my journey in the UK.
Even the first day I went in tosee the consultant in A&E

(14:42):
because I was referred by my GPat this point now, to.
A&E.
As soon as I got in to see myconsultant at my A&E, he said no
, no, just give her somehairpink and she's fine.
You see, this meant everybodycould say I met her and he said

(15:03):
no, I don't think so.
She doesn't sound like somebodythat doesn't know that she's
ill, there's something wrong,and she's trying to say find it.
And then he said okay, just doa CT scan.
Now I need an MRI scan.
He said let's do a CT scan.
Anyway, they did the wholething and I was trying to come

(15:26):
before I left the room to comedown to the reception where
they'd will me back, they willme up to take the scan and then
they will me back.
They told them to take me backup again and now they want an
MRI.
I didn't even realize thatduring that period they had
contacted immediately.
It's a group of hospitals thatdo brain tumors and they had

(15:54):
contacted them in the braintumors.
It's called Southeast London.
It's a group that they are theones that every person that has
a tumor in the UK in this groupare under this clinic, and it's
not just about London.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
At that point.
Why did they contact them?

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Nobody saw that there was a problem.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
They were already suspecting.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
So they now needed to confirm whether what they were
seeing was exactly correct,because the person was to do a
CT scan.
But you know, you will see somepart.
They saw that they were like no.
So they said, go and do aproper MRI and I got admitted
that day.
I got admitted becauseapparently my brain was full of

(16:47):
liquid at that time.
I think I call it water, Idon't know what it's called.
I always say I'm a medicaldoctor, I'm a teacher, so just
bear with me on that one, solet's not become medical because
we have no cancer.
And then I did that and as soonas I did that they said they put
me in the bed and that was it.

(17:08):
They now have to get theswelling down.
But I was then put in straightinto brain surgery within.
It was supposed to be thefollowing week but there was a
mix-up in the hospital and thenit was done two weeks later and
I had a brain scan, A brainsurgery.
Very sad, very good.
But it was the day before mydaughter's birthday.

(17:31):
I left her in Nigeria and wentoff telling her how she used to,
Not knowing I would not see hersoon.
I got back, had the surgery.
It was very funny because on theday I went for the surgery I
was in a high and I think I wantto say surgeries, do not throw

(17:54):
me.
So I always tell people don'tbe scared of it.
And then you tend to be okay.
But in the same way, mypressure I don't have any spills
.
One of them is always very low.
It's always below the norm fora normal person and I've always
known that it's the same way.
I've always known my BP isalways low, it's not high.
But now it's not like that,it's changed.

(18:17):
That's how we started.
And then I started my cancerjourney, Made it.
After that they had the firstbrain surgery.
As they were finishing thefirst brain surgery, they had
found another doctor, anotherconsultant I don't know if I
want to name their names, butthey're great consultants in the
UK.
The second one was gave me fromhis budget because I now had to

(18:42):
have gamma knife surgery andthat consultant was a research
consultant.
So he had a budget and thebudget allowed me to have gamma
knife surgery.
We now removed the othersurrounding tumors because at
that point they knew I had fourtumors.
I had four tumors in the brain.
So with me now learning aboutcancer, I realized that if you

(19:04):
had one tumor in your brain, youdo not have.
You may or may not have cancer.
If you have multiple tumors inyour brain, you do have cancer.
It's not what comes that youhave.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
And they came back and said it was reading breast
cancer.
It was what it was breastcancer, oh it was primarily
breast cancer.
Okay, okay, it's a primary.
I have what you call metastaticbreast cancer, breast cancer,
yeah.
Which means it's breast cancerthat has moved to the brain,
yeah, so all the tumors are inthe brain.

(19:38):
Yeah, after that I had to havethe gamma knife surgery and then
I was given some time whilethey were still trying to work
out.
I had to do all the other testsPET scan to check how it spread
all over my organs.
What was it?
How did it get there?
I'm not sure anybody can reallyanswer that now, but at least

(20:01):
I'm able to find drugs thatallow me life.
I then have.
So since then I have had three.
I think they are calledcranotonomies.
That means three cuts in thebrain.
I have had two gamma knifesurgeries, so between those two

(20:25):
they have removed nine tumorsfrom my brain.
I have changed the therapydrugs that continue to shrink or
remove other tumors and stopothers from growing.
Now I will.
When I say I some person livingwith cancer, that statement

(20:46):
means the person lives withcancer and they will not, they
will live, they will die livingwith cancer.
So a lot of people hear it think, oh, you mean it will get it?
No, no, no.
It's the one cancer category ofpeople that the disease does
not is never cured, ever whereit goes once.

(21:15):
They always have a drug to keepyou.
They will.
The side effects of the drug,however, is known in the cancer
space to be the real reason whypeople struggle, because the
challenge of drugs is a lot.
Let me stop here.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Okay, Okay, Thanks so so much.
Sorry To give you somethingelse to think about.
Okay, no, thank you so much forreally sharing that, and I
think the question I was goingto ask was so is the tumors?
Do they keep growing back?
Is that why you keep having theoperation?

(21:54):
And also because when you sayyou're living with it, is it
that more tumors keep coming?
What's happening there?

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Because the tumors keep going back.
Okay, so in the process ofhaving the surgery, as there's a
site, the original site isactive.
So I have an active tumor siteand there's nothing they can do
about it.
So I've had three cuts.
I've had three cuts, I have onemore chance at a gamma knife.

(22:27):
I don't know how many morechances I will get on a
proanotomy if it's at the samespot, because it's the same cut
point, that is, it's still thesame point.
It's not moved.
So I'm not sure yet how thatgoes, but as of my results as of

(22:48):
yesterday, that's one that hasbeen and it's just not moving.
It's just it's respected, asfar as I say.
I would say like this it'srespecting itself Good, and it's
allowing me to tell it juststay where you are, yeah, and
don't make anything worse.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I just don't need it, yeah, good, and I hope, by
God's grace, it will stay likethat, yeah Right.
So, and Denise, with all this,you know this experience.
In fact, the interesting thingis you were told three months in
Nigeria, but you know we thankGod that you're still here to

(23:26):
give the, to give your storyalmost eight years in.
How has that journey been foryou mentally?
And you know, if I come back tothat early stage, what were the
emotions you were going throughand how did you navigate
through it?
Thank, you.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Now, that's where we are.
That's now the discussion.
So one of the things I'll sayvery quickly is that when I got,
I have a spiritual relationship, I believe in God, I trust God
and I have my own spirituallifestyle.
So I thought to myself, well,how am I going to navigate this?

(24:05):
Because I knew now I hadmultiple tumors.
So one day I sat in mybrother's house and I thought I
was sitting there because Icouldn't be on my own.
I would fall off, yeah, and Ithought, what is this all about?
So I prayed and I said, father,if this disease, if this

(24:28):
illness is going to kill mequickly, it's going to kill me
in a space of maybe a year.
I don't want it.
Let me just go home quietly.
The disease is called cancer andI accept.
My mother just died of cancer.
I did not believe that mychildren had a right to watch

(24:53):
what I had to watch when my momdied, and my mom died as an
elderly person.
I am quite young and I had achild in secondary school from
one.
So just one, yeah, and thatmakes a difference.
Yeah, and I was at a key stage,key stage for your seven.
So you have to be very, verymindful.

(25:13):
You have to look at where yourchild is, and that was what I
thought I said.
However, if I am going to live,if the decision is for me to
live and this is my prayerrequest let me be useful to
society and let me be able towork for people with cancer and

(25:35):
let my life be used for that.
And I left, and one day, in mychemo chair, I had some guests,
because we used to be allowed togo have family and friends, and
I used the opportunity to startencouraging people who had
heard about cancer, who I knewcould have a voice or help
people.
If they wanted, they couldvisit me on my chemo chair.

(25:56):
We have a chat, they could takephotos, because a lot of people
do not understand chemo, so alot of people think it's very
complex.
We have to be admitted, wedon't know where we're going.
We go in there, we have ourchemo, we walk out of there.
We don't sleep there, they'renot well, they're not going to
do chemo.
So I want that notion.
We waste now.

(26:17):
If anybody is going to havechemo, you don't sleep there.
They will not even give youchemo if you are not well, so
don't worry about it.
Chemo is not.
Don't worry about chemo.
It's not scary, it shouldn't be.
It's just, it's like a drip andthat's it.
So I started to use that to talkabout it, and one day they were
sitting there and said you knowwhat, denise?

(26:39):
You've always wanted afoundation.
Why don't you use your life tostart this foundation?
And that's how I started myfoundation.
My commode is actually mygrandfather's name.
That's my mom's maiden name.
My grandmother died of cancer.
My mother died of cancer.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
What cancer did your mother die of?

Speaker 2 (27:04):
My one died.
No, I don't know the order, butone died with.
Both of them died of leukemia.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
It's the type of one died with non-Hodgkins something
like that.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
But I don't have either of that.
That's not what I had.
I have, it's aesthetic breastcancer.
So after that, now I have to bevery honest with you.
The journey of a cancer personperson, short term or long term
is very complex.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
What do?

Speaker 2 (27:39):
you mean by that?
If all the components are notprovided for, the survival rate
of a cancer patient is almostnon-lantrually, is not existent,
and this is what I'm trying tosay.
I am very dependent on all theservice provisions that a cancer
patient requires.

(28:00):
The biggest challenge is ourmental health, and that's one
part that people do not realize.
If that is wrong, no matter howhard you try, something will
trigger and you won't be able tofight anymore.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
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(29:01):
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Become part of the MindSightWomen's Network today.
Can I dig a bit deeper intothis aspect, denise, because I

(29:21):
think it's so important in termsof the mental health.
When you say mental health,what do you actually mean by
that?

Speaker 2 (29:33):
That's why I wanted to list them, because then you
will see the relationship.
So we've got the mental health,we've got our physical being.
Cancer treatment comes withpain.
So when there's pain, you knowit will go into your brain, no
matter how hard you try to notrecognize that it is going to be

(29:53):
there.
You are living a very normallife before you got sick.
All of a sudden, your world'scrashed.
Your emotional well-being iscrashed.
You are living a normal life,you could pay your bills, your
financial well-being has crashed.

(30:15):
How are you going to navigate?
That is then you start to thinkabout everything.
So that's why mental is anencompassment of all what I've
just mentioned.
You can't separate them.
So I wouldn't want anybody toseparate them.
So one of the first things Irealized as I was journeying I

(30:40):
have come to realize that whenI'm in pain or I'm tired, I will
cry.
I don't need, I want things.
I've in fact used this to whenyou're supporting a cancer
patient.
One thing people say is it iswell.
No, it's not well, so pleasedon't take it.
Or I understand, no, you don'tunderstand, because you're not

(31:04):
sitting in the chair.
That's right.
So vocabulary needs to changeglobally.
You need to understand that thepain, the experience, the way
we feel, the way we move, theway we think has changed and we
don't know how to navigate.
So when I say we don't, wereally don't.

(31:24):
We are now dependent ontrusting people to respect our
space.
What do I mean by that?
You talked about you're askingme mental health.
I depend on the counsellor.
In fact, I had to cancel mycounsellors appointment
yesterday because I am not wellfor tomorrow, for next week.

(31:45):
Why do I have to do that?
Because I have a lot of thingsI need to get off my head now.
We've just gone throughChristmas and if I don't sort
those things out, I will notnavigate to 2024.
And I'm one person I beg a lotof cancer patients take your
counselling sessions seriously,source for it and get it,

(32:09):
because if you don't get it, youwouldn't know what to do.
I got to a point where, at thepoint of five years, I didn't
think I was going to cross theline, not because anybody said
anything, not because ofanything, but statistically I'm

(32:29):
not supposed to get past fiveyears because I have metastatic
breast cancer.
So we have to come to terms ofwhat you have.
You can't, don't live in a boxand lie about it.
Deal with it.
I don't want you to lie aboutit.
If you got the disease, faceyour head on and seek for the
help you require.
Please don't, don't, don't,don't, don't do that, because

(32:49):
it's not going to help you.
And I had to go through thatand understand where I was
coming from.
When I got through that periodwas COVID time.
I was just spiraling down.
It said hello, denise, I willcry, what's going on?
I didn't know how was I going.

(33:09):
I didn't.
I couldn't understand.
But one thing I only knew I didright was I didn't want my
child, my youngest child, toknow how I was broken.
My two other children aremarried and they were not around
, so I only had her.
It was COVID.
Gradually I have family.

(33:34):
They come, they go, and then Igot the counselor and the best
thing that's ever happened to mewas she helped me to put all
this finances, mental health,emotional wellbeing, physical
wellbeing it's boxes Because youcome out of one another.

(33:55):
One's going to happen If youlive with the disease, if you
have the disease.
Some people have cancer andthey get cured and they move on
and then you start a life againand you go for your screening
every year.
For anybody who has ever hadcancer, I'm going to say it
again, for anybody who has everhad cancer.
You will always have ascreening every year.
Right, and once you have ascreening every year, it means

(34:18):
automatically that they're goingto check.
Let me tell you now,immediately, that screening is
called Every part of your bodythat you think has cancer.
Automatically.
Someone has to have cancer, notbecause it does, but because
your mentors is telling youthey're going to say something

(34:39):
and there's nothing you can doabout it.
So just take it like that.
And it's that time of screeningand scanning.
I have scans three times a year, trust me, I know what it is
when I go there and I just sitdown and I'm like, whatever,
we're going to see how it comesout, but that's one.
When I was at the five-yearpoint, I couldn't think like

(35:01):
that.
I was broken, I was shattered,I was exhausted, and I still get
to that point now.
So if you've got cancer oryou're going through it, just
find someone you trust that willnot judge you, that is just

(35:21):
willing to listen to you, nottalk to you or advise you,
because nobody can advise youunless they're on that chair,
but at least they can listen toyou and ask them what do you
want me to do for you?
Yeah, not like that.
Not give us what you think youare going to do for us.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Ask what would you want me to do?
Sometimes I say to people justtaking a cancer patient out of
their home and have a meal withthem, you will be so surprised,
the positive mental state youhave done.
You will be shocked.
In Nigeria, one of the thingswe do in my foundation we once

(36:04):
did, we still started it.
I've never done it before.
But buy food, wrap it, packageit nicely and give it to some
because they have to eat.
There's certain things that wehave to eat.
We should, as a cancer patient,say we don't want to eat
something.
Please don't tell us well,we're supposed to eat greens,

(36:25):
we're supposed to eat beans,we're not supposed to.
No, no, no, no.
Don't do that.
Don't do that, please, becauseall you're doing is not giving
us a reason to live.
Yeah, because if we don't, wecannot take our medicines.
And our medicines are very,very hash.
Let's put things in context.

(36:46):
Let's be honest about it.
If our medicines are hash, it'sbecause of medicines.
I actually use a walking stick.
I am already learning, alreadyto understand that I may end up
in a wheelchair.
So am I going to sit now andsay I don't know that?

(37:08):
No, I am already aware that itcan happen.
I'm not waiting to learn to.
I navigate.
When I go to the airport now Iseek assistance.
I'm no longer trying to say I'mmacho, I'm going to walk.
That's what my cancer laws areteaching me.
There's no need doing thatanymore.
Just seek the help and move on.

(37:29):
Don't, don't, don't, don't,please.
Let me stop here.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Oh, denise, that is so I've just been making notes.
That is fantastic, and a fewthings you touched on that I
love.
The vocabulary that is usedwhen talking to someone that has
cancer is so important.
And you know, coming back tothat mental state, like you said
, there's a lot that you'rehaving to think about and deal

(37:55):
with.
So you know what we don't, whatyou don't want is the
additional.
You know additional things thatwill create more problems with
mental health, and I thinkthat's so important.
One of the things you said, ortwo things that I would love to
mention, is that come to termswith what you have.
I think that's so powerful,because once you do that, it's

(38:18):
almost like, instead of being indenial, you know in the brain
there's an alignment.
So this alignment with this isthe reality of what's happening,
and so now, with that, yourbrain is able to almost open up
to opportunities, to things youcan do.
But when you're in denial, thatis when there's a misalignment

(38:39):
and then the problems start.
So that's so powerful.
Something else you said is whatdo you want me to do for you?
Wow, I think that is just great, because a lot of times, people
don't know what to say, how tosay it or what not to say.
So I think this is just greatListening, just listen, just be
there and you know, asking thequestion what do you want me to

(39:03):
do?
Because you're right.
A lot of times we assume weknow and we do this with people.
Generally, it's like you knowwhat the other person needs
because you're basing it on yourown needs or what you think.
But we've got to reallyunderstand that we're all
different.
So asking that question,because each and different

(39:26):
cancer patients are alldifferent, they all need
different things, human beingsare different and we all need
different things.
So just asking that question, Ijust thank you so much.
And something else you saidthat I just want to reiterate
again is just taking someone out, you know a person living with
cancer.
Just taking them out and saying, see, let's go for a meal,

(39:48):
let's just change theenvironment Little things like
that make a whole lot ofdifference.
That coming to impose yourthoughts about your fine oh,
don't say that.
Oh, that's too negative, oh,don't do that but really
allowing them be, and just it'salmost like creating a space for
them to appreciate life insteadof almost taking it away.

(40:09):
This is called a safe space.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yes, a safe space.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's really great.
Thank you so much.
A lot of.
Even if you're not a patient,if I'm listening to you, I'm
going wow, yeah, I think it'sjust fantastic.
So, denise, now that I want totalk about your charity in terms
of what it does and how I knowyou've touched on it a bit.

(40:38):
You know how you support peoplewith food and support people in
different ways, but tell us abit more about the charity,
because that would help as well.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
Okay, my charity is called ComMove Cancer Foundation
and it's an awarenessfoundation.
We don't fundraise to helppeople with treatment and that
is for ethical reasons.
I live with the disease and Ialways say to people who don't

(41:11):
understand the cancer spaceevery person that has cancer has
cancer.
Long-term cancer patients arethe most expensive beggars in
the world, and I'm going toexplain it so people don't run
off with what I've said withoutknowing the context.
Once you have cancer, you don'thave access to funds.

(41:34):
Even if you have a salary, forhow long will they continue to
pay?
You've got a family.
You've got rent.
You've got bills to pay.
At a point there will be none.
You've got people who havesupported you in the initial
stage At a point they too willstop.

(41:57):
So the financial place of acancer patient is not short-term
, except the disease is actuallytreatable short-term.
Therefore, anybody who liveswith cancer falls into the
category of the most expensivebeggars in the world, because

(42:17):
there is no country that can payfor us for all our bills for
the rest of our lives.
There is none.
If you have a house, you willlose your house.
If you have, especially if youare a young person, because you
don't have the income to pay themortgage anymore and you won't
have it because you live withcancer, which means you take

(42:40):
treatment.
You are always in the hospital.
You have three days off thisweek.
You may not have three days offnext week.
No employer is going to employyou with those.
So, with that in context, Ijust wanted to make sure I
explain that in context.
Once you've got anunderstanding that this is your
reality, then we start to lookat what common cancer does.

(43:02):
First and foremost, our firstprimary goal is to create
awareness, that is, ensureknowledge is out in the open
space.
You get the facts of cancer,different cancers.
We get speakers from all overthe world.
Our focus primarily is lowmiddle income countries, and I'm

(43:25):
in Nigeria, so let's useNigeria as most of them, but I
also have speakers from theglobal community, depending on
what we're doing.
So this year is World CancerDay.
I have somebody in theorganization that is into
patents, and when I say patentsis patents are the cheaper

(43:47):
version of our cancer drugs.
Our Cancer drugs are producedby the big seven or big five.
I can't tell you how they arecalled.
One is called big seven, one isjust a five.
I don't know which of the oneit is, but they're the biggest
pharmaceuticals and Once theyproduce a drug, it takes a

(44:08):
certain number of years beforeit can be sold at a patent price
, which is they take the Contentand now make it at a cheaper
price.
Until that is done, you cannotaccess the drugs, which means
that only countries, only peoplein developing countries, can
access that drug at the ratesthe patent the Organization has

(44:33):
put it.
When it becomes patented, thenit can be sold in low-medium
income countries because theorganization will now give out
Provide the licenses forpharmaceuticals to now sell it.
Is it different?
I actually serve as a communityadvisory panelist for the

(44:54):
medicine patent pool.
That is fundamentally what I'mtrying to drive.
That's why I agree to servethere, because if we get more
patents in and and they are inthe market, it helps people
Access the drug.
One of our biggest drugs is whatthey call to trust with my
trust in my is taken by almost.

(45:14):
I don't know if I pronounced it, pronounced it properly, but
you take it like that.
The none, the easier name of itis accepted.
Almost all the best patientsthat have risk cancer at some
point take it.
Some of us live on it in Insome countries it's very
expensive.

(45:34):
So if it's very expensive untilit gets to patent price, you
can't.
I think it's now in the patentpricing group, so hopefully we
should get the patent pricingout before the end of 2024,
which will automatically give ahuge number of cancer patients

(45:54):
across the world Access to that,because the World Health
Organization is trying to workon Access for all access to
medicines for all.
But until the big organizations, that's, those big giant
pharmaceuticals, agreed torelease the drugs at the price,
then there's nothing we can do.
So that is part of my work.

(46:15):
I am engaged in the globalcommunity on the rights of
cancer patients as as as people,our Disabilities, because if
you take cancer drugs for a longtime, it has a knock on effect
on your body.
Who's going to pay for you?
Nobody wants to, nobody'sinterested.

(46:38):
Okay, so maybe at this point weneed to look.
I'm hoping this year to pullout.
I Will call it a call to action, but it's more to see how many
well I can get to sign apetition asking that people who
live with cancer Should beallowed to access their pension.
If they're not going to everwork.

(46:58):
Why am I?
I paid into a pension systemover 2000 pounds a month and now
I can't access it and I may notlive 67.
But I was diagnosed and I was49 and that unfortunately cannot
be, because the statisticsshows that I'm not going to give

(47:19):
that length of time or I maynot, and a lot of us that have
it end up dying, and we die inpoverty.
Why?
Because you've taken our homes,you've taken everything, and
yet we're now allowed to livelong.
It's wrong.
At least if we had those, wedon't lose our homes because at
least we have access to moneythat can pay for our mortgages.

(47:40):
And then Do you understand, andI think that's a, that's a drive
.
One of the key things that wedrive, we have Translating.
One of the biggest things istranslating awareness in
Different languages.
Currently, I want to build theNigerian one first and then take

(48:01):
it out and see if we can get itin other places.
But the one in the Nigerian one, if I get it right, you're
right even one house.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
I will see if.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
I can, people like the, a Macmillan, to take it on
because it's required in England.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
One question before you go on.
So this translating theawareness is this for Cancer,
people that are living withcancer, or is it awareness
generally, for people whogeneral?

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Okay, okay it's general, because if, if I'm
talking to you about cancer,yeah, when the entire my do an
interview about cancer, I try tobring somebody who has the
disease and who is the medic.
So when the medic is sayingthis, I am, as a cancer patient,
the cancer patient can help toexplain it to Somebody who might

(48:54):
have the disease.
This is it, or who issupporting somebody who has
family that has the disease.
Because one of the saddestthings is I, a lot of us don't
realize Queen Elizabeth, whojust died, our Queen that just
died.
History has it Excuse me, let'ssee, has it, that her father

(49:18):
died of cancer.
So if we want to deny, that's ashame, but history has it that
the King, prince Elizabeth's,queen Elizabeth's father.
So why is it that They've knownabout cancer how many centuries

(49:39):
and we are still trying toaddress it?
It just shows that there hasn't, there was not a determination
to address it and now One in twopeople will get cancer.
Yeah, and so the highest deathrates of cancer will occur in no
middle-income countries becausethey can't afford it and In I'm

(50:03):
in in high-income countriesthey have already got healthcare
systems that give access.
Hence the World HealthOrganization's drive for access,
for access to medicine for all,but there's, there's.
So those are the things that Iam.
I am, I am very into Now youguys, my home base, I will

(50:24):
always prioritize.
Yeah, we think my father stilllives in Nigeria.
My father still alive, and thatmeans a lot to me.
Yes, my mother died of cancer,like I said, so it is important
that we don't throw away whatour own values in this space of
running after things.
I Always say to people if Idon't make it, I want to make

(50:46):
sure I've left a legacy forother people to continue.
I mentor quite a lot ofadvocates and make them learn
where come, let's go.
I'm going on a conference now.
I want you to come with me.
Why it's not?
A lot of people say you don'ttake.
No, I take people because whenI'm not here, I want to believe
they will continue the fightuntil a voice.

(51:07):
We've struggled over the years.
We're talking about cancer andit's very sad to say that the
cancer patients voice is nowjust been addressed.
So how are you been addressingthe medicines if you're not
asking the patient?
How do you know the exact needsor the impact of your drugs if
you are all you're doing isgiving us question years?

Speaker 1 (51:34):
You know, I'm here, I'm just great because there's a
lot of things you said that Ididn't even realize.
You know, even the aspect ofpension, it makes sense, but
something that you just, youknow, just don't think about.
But you know, I'm just sograteful to you for coming on
this podcast because there's alot you've talked about that

(51:55):
Kind of go.
Yeah, that makes sense, that'sso true and these are things
that Should just be, but thenyou know they're not being
thought about or not being dealtwith.
So, and Denise, in terms of thepeople that you know that you
focus on a lot, because I knowyou've talked about the cancer.

(52:18):
You know cancer patientsthemselves, those living with
cancer, and what about theawareness in terms of people
being diagnosed.
Do you work?
Do you do anything in that areaas well?
Just kind of.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Okay.
So we support the the processof diagnosis.
So if, for instance, we have apatient that has been told
they've got cancer and they needsomebody to be with them, we'll
find somebody.
Anywhere in Nigeria, we'll findyou somebody to go with you.
If there's funding, we start totell you there's funding here,

(53:00):
access this, try this, call thisperson.
Call that because our communityis still quite small, even
though it's large.
It's a very large group ofpeople, but it's a very small
community, so you can alwayscall around to find who can help
where they can help.
A few people have turned togetting funding globally from

(53:23):
places like Goof on Me, like Isaid, which is why I used when I
said cancer patients are themost expensive beggars.
People think I said with acareless song but you can't
afford the payment.
Okay, my treatment cost, Icannot.
I'm sure it cannot be less than10,500, 10,200, every three
weeks.
Who can afford that?

(53:45):
Yeah, let's not lie about thechallenges that people face.
And then we also help you withthings like people just call and
say I just want someone to talkto, and most of the time my
team will say what's the issue?

(54:06):
It's not me, I don't havecancer, I just want to talk to
someone and I immediately knowit's a family member who has
broken down and they don't knowwhat to do and then I have to
walk them through.
Okay, come on, now let's go,let's believe, let's trust.
Okay, let's keep going.
What are the plans where we whois the person helping you?

(54:27):
And you know, we start to workon that.
We have people that needfunding.
Wherever we can, I will findsomebody who can help raise.
Okay, like, for instance, atsome point at the end of last
year, people were looking formass cotomy bras.
I hope I said it right, butit's the bras for those who have
had breast cancer.

(54:47):
Okay, mass cotomy bras, yeah,and I knew people that had it,
so I just refer them to peoplethat have it.
That's what I mean about thecommunity.
I knew people who had it, so wecan find.
I always try to say to peopleand this is where I hope cancer
organizations are not justcancer, but global always

(55:07):
remember you cannot do it all,so partnerships with other
people that can do it helps usto help more people.
I am good at their awareness.
I have television access, so Ihave an awareness television
program almost every week whichallows me to bring in different
people in the spectrum, fromsurvivors to doctors, to

(55:31):
organizations, to the government, or to talk about it, talk
about cancer and let the peopleof Nigeria, where I come from,
know what's going on.
In the same way, those samevideos are all on YouTube so
that anybody can go there.
But it's just important that alot of people go on it, watch it

(55:53):
or don't say anything.
And the more you talk, the moreyou either like and share, the
more chances are more peopleknow.
Oh, this resource is availablebecause the resources are there
and they're consistent.
But if you don't, if you don'taccess it and sharing people,
then you're not helping us tochange the narrative.

(56:13):
And the best way to reduce thecancer deaths in the world is
through their awareness program.
It's through their advocacy,it's through these videos, these
conversations, because by doingthat, you are helping people to
say, oh, I've got a consistentheadache.
Oh, I've got a consistentstomach ache.

(56:33):
Yeah, what's the reason I havediarrhea?
Oh, my goodness, you go to thedoctor, you give you medicine,
you come back, you go back, yougo back, you go back, you go.
Once you've gone back a fewtimes, you need to start asking
the doctor, excuse me, doc, it'snot like that now, stop, stop,
stop.
I want you now to check andmake sure you rule out that I
don't have cancer, becausecancer is an everyday illness.

(56:56):
People don't know.
It's not a sickness that comesfrom the.
No, if you have a headache, itcan be cancer.
If you have diarrhea it can becancer.
If you have constipation it canbe cancer.
So if everyday illnesses arecancer, then the faster we
understand that we can solve it.
Another thing that a lot ofpeople are not aware of is that

(57:18):
cancer is in.
We are all born with cancercells in our body, all human
beings.
The question is does it?
Does it activate?
So if it activates and itactivates in stage one, then
it's under control.
Whatever it is, if it's a tumor, a small tumor in your breast,

(57:41):
they just remove it, they burnthat part off, kill that cell,
that's it.
Your life is back to normal.
No change, no nothing.
But you see a lump.
That's very small.
It's there to address thatsmall.
You wait, it gets very big.
Any good, you're still runningaround.
You've already let it get worse.
And that is what cancer cellsare.
They are actually in your body.
You're born with cancer cells,some activate, some don't, and

(58:03):
in two people who will getcancer from 2023.
So what does that tell you?
If you have four people in yourhouse, two people may get it.
So don't run and hide.
Put your head in the sand andsay it's not mine, I've got
constipation.
Or you say I've got diarrhea,what's that?
And they say no, it's one ofNigerian sicknesses they call

(58:26):
jajijajai, I think.
Meanwhile you just sniff atthat and then stop yourself from
getting colorectal.
Do you understand what I mean?
And it's just so sad becausethey are easy to treat if they
are at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
Thank you so much.
I think you know that the pointyou've raised are really
important.
I'll go back to that issue ofif you have something that you
keep going to the doctor andthey're not finding a solution,
don't stop.
Just make sure that you get tothe root of it.

(59:04):
I think that's so important andwe could see that from your own
story.
It's a case of don't just giveup and say, okay, yeah, the
doctor said I'm fine, so I'mfine.
If you don't feel fine, youknow yourself, you know your
body, keep going and the wholeaspect of being you know, just
when you notice something is notright, go for help and check us

(59:27):
.
You know we just need to keepchecking ourselves, we need to
check our bodies and once younotice something, go and see a
doctor.
Don't stay in denial.
I think that's so important andyou've made the point, so you
know so truly that if it'spicked up quickly, then there's
a solution.
Most times there is a solution,it can be helped and you know,

(59:50):
but it's when you leave it forso long, then that's when
there's a product that can be apotential problem.
So thank you so much.
I just because I know we'realmost getting to the end.
Now, one of the things that Iwant to come back to is how you
started working with thecounselor.
You started working with thecounselor fight about five years

(01:00:12):
into living with cancer.
That's correct, isn't it?
So what advice would you givepeople now so somebody that has
just been diagnosed, or somebodyyou know, whether you've just
been diagnosed, whether you'vebeen living with it, you know?
Would you say, startimmediately to work with a
counselor or start, you know?
What advice would you give?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
A lot of people stick .
You know, in the cancer worldthere's something called
stigmatization.
People say, no, you shouldn'tsay that, but it's true.
What is cancer is not myportion, it's not this.
There's a reason why peopledon't want to be identified
cancer because a lot of cultureshave a lot of issues around
cancer and you can't marry thisperson because they have cancer

(01:00:57):
in their family.
You can't do this.
It's a standard thing and that,I think, is the fundamental
reason why we get to the pointof stigmatization.
If you have cancer, I wouldn'tuse myself as a starting point,
because I went into it tellingGod you know what.
Whichever way you're going,let's go it together.

(01:01:18):
But that is because I alwayssay, all of us have some form of
faith in our subconscious.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
And we believe in some God in our subconscious and
we revert back at the point ofcancer.
So you've got to first findthat, yeah.
Second thing then, when itcomes, once you see you cry a
lot because when blam, blam,let's use the UK if you have

(01:01:47):
cancer in the UK, you start tocry a lot.
You start to go into depression.
Yes, yeah, don't deny you'renot going to depression, don't
bother, it's not worth it,because it is the skill sets to
navigate through that yourequire and the, the counselors,

(01:02:07):
are the only people that canhelp you.
I am not being funny.
When I was at that point, Ididn't know how to do it.
I just sat down there and I waslike you know what she said to
me how are you today?
I said I'm fine, thank you,with my always, I'm always
smiling.
I refuse to be sad.
And she just asked a question.

(01:02:29):
I just like right, they saidcrying.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
And I was like, yeah, it was already inside.
Yeah, and it took me foursessions of saying hello to her
to stop crying when he talks tome.
When I went back, I had a breakfrom half, because I come off
for one year and then, if I'mnot well good again, I go back
in.
First thing I did was I startedcrying again.

(01:02:53):
This was two years ago.
This was last year.
Why?
Because I found myself, as aresult of the drug, in
excruciating pain and I could nolonger walk, and I can't recall
I had to call my children andsay to them you know what?
I'm not sure I'm ready to fightanymore.
If this is what it is, I don'twant it.
But as soon as I saw myconsultant, she got me straight

(01:03:15):
back into my counselor.
Between the two of them, theone I was dealing with is the
pain.
It's the pain.
It's the legs, okay, fine, butthe cancer we've got under
control, okay.
So what are we going to do toget your brain back?
See, it had to help me to walkmy brain back.
That is through my counselor,that is through the way they

(01:03:35):
talk to me.
When I'm in, down and out and Ihave to see a consultant that
is not my consultant, I now saycan I have their comment when my
consultant is in?
Because you have to also have arelationship with the person
you are talking to.
Yes, yes, that makes thesignificant difference in how
you are now, because you arevulnerable, at your highest

(01:03:56):
level of vulnerability.
Just let it go.
Don't try and make out I'm verystrong, me I'm not strong.
People say you are strong.
That is your opinion of me.
I'm not given what is God'sopinion of me and what is my

(01:04:18):
opinion of me.
Very important and when I can'tdo it.
I know I can't do it and I sayI can't do it.
There is no cycle.
I do Every cycle.
I do within a cycle of threeweeks, one or two days.
Within those two to that periodI will cry Because the pain is

(01:04:39):
much.
And now because my daughters,my daughters help me and look
after me.
They will soon stop lookingafter me, but for now they are.
I find that they help me totake my granddaughter straight
away from me so she doesn't seeme crying because I'm very close
to her, and take her away andthen just sit with me and just

(01:05:02):
let me cry.
Yeah, you can't do anything forme.
The best thing is to drink waterand sit there quietly and let
me cry because you can't help me.
So when it comes up, I'mbegging all the cancer patients
across the world.
If you hear this, a cancerpatient cry, don't be super

(01:05:25):
human.
It doesn't.
It's not going to get youanything, if anything.
When you let it out, you acceptwhere you're going.
You can fight.
You will then know how to getthe support you require as and
when.
Those are the only times youwill get it.
Any other time you will get it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Wow, you know, and I'll even add to that that when
you know if you're supporting acancer patient, let them cry
when they when they need to cryas well, because that's
important, because I think it'salmost sometimes you find that
guilt is put on.
Don't cry.
It's almost like a sign ofweakness.
It's not.
It's actually strength,acknowledging your emotions.

(01:06:07):
It is a huge strength, and Ilove the way you've brought out
this emotional aspect of it,because there's a stigma
attached to emotion.
It's almost like you're weak ifyou cry, but you're not.
And there's something you said,denise, that I love so much, and
it's the fact that, yes, I seeyou and say, gosh, you need to

(01:06:28):
be a strong woman, but theimportant thing is forget about
what people see.
You know yourself, and I thinkthat's so important.
So you identify yes, at thispoint I'm strong, but today I'm
not, and it's acknowledging thatand doing something about it.
So you know, honestly, denise,I'm so, so grateful for you to

(01:06:51):
come to really open up and openyourself up to us.
And you know, I've learned somuch, and I'm sure people
listening have learned so much,even how to support people, how
to support friends, what to say,being careful of you know a
narrative and it's you know Italk about this a lot, surely,
when I'm working with leaders inorganizations but really

(01:07:14):
bringing it to you know somebodythat is a friend or someone
you're supporting, it makes sucha difference, and also for
people living with cancer.
You can see how the importanceof actually guarding your own
mental state what are youthinking, identifying what your

(01:07:35):
thoughts are and because ourbrain is just such an
interesting organ, there aretimes that you can't take
control of it yourself andthat's when you need the right
support.
And it's identifying what thatright support is.
It might not be your friend, itmight not be your relation, it
might not be your child, itmight be somebody external, like

(01:07:57):
Denise has explained.
It could be a counselorSometimes it's not or your
neighbor exactly, but it'sreally identifying the right
person and making sure that it'snot the wrong one when the
wrong ones are coming with theiradvice.
No, protect yourself from that.
That's so important.

Speaker 2 (01:08:15):
One thing you say is that you should always get the
correct circle of your supportnetwork and all your support
networks serve differentpurposes so that wherever you
need them, you are accessing theright person.
It's very key.
A lot of people don't.
I don't know if that explains.

(01:08:36):
I hope I've explained it well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Yeah, no, it makes sense.
Some people know you.
Yeah, no, it makes absolutesense.
And I think even even you knowwith cancer patients, yes, but
even outside you know the cancerpatients life, because it could
be even be you as a person.
You need to know what yourdifferent associations or

(01:09:01):
relationships serve and reallyyou know making the most of it.
And also for you as a personwhere do you give?
What are you giving?
And just paying attention towhat you're doing.
You know how you're supportingsomebody, or actually not, in
terms of what you say and whatyou do.
So I think we've all got thatresponsibility.

(01:09:23):
You know for ourselves, butalso you know in terms of what
we give and what we take as well.
So, no, thank you so much forthat.
So I'm going to put a link inthe description to the charity.
And then, denise, what else isthere any other?
Is anything else that you wantto say in terms of what we
should be doing or not doing orpaying attention to to as we

(01:09:47):
round up this podcast today?

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
And one thing I would like to say and thank you very
much for this, quite a nice chat.
I can't believe time has gonethis far.
One of the things I wanteverybody to know is your body
speaks to you, your brain speaksto you, your emotions speak to
you, and one day you will comeacross cancer, so don't let

(01:10:16):
cancer be the boss.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Take control.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
You will win if you are actually aware, and that's
why it's you have to be aware ofyou for you to be able to be
aware of what's going on aroundyou.
Cancer is real.
We don't have to die if we areaware.
Share another thing I want toask the world Always help, every

(01:10:48):
little helps.
It's the thinker test scoresadvert.
For me, it's together we fight,together we win, and if we win,
it's another life saved.
And if we don't, we did.
I say to everybody we had agood fight.
So all kinds of patients, we'restill survivors.

(01:11:10):
Thank you, we're getting there.
That's my sticker for you.
Thank you.
Thank you, lauren, thank you,thank you, oh, dennis.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Yeah, no, thank you.
So, so, so, so, so much.
Your body speaks, your brainspeaks, your emotions speaks,
listen, listen and act on them.
That is just so wonderful,dennis, thank you so very much
for really coming and educatingus and really opening yourself
up for us.
I am so, so grateful to you andI really wish you all the best,

(01:11:44):
and I know that God is with you.
And one of the last things Iwill say is I think just
speaking to you just shows theimportance of paying attention
to your brain and being able tomanage your emotions, understand
your brain and being.
You know, I will say, rewireyour brain.
And you've just given us a goodexample of the importance of

(01:12:09):
paying attention, being incontrol of that brain.
When I say being in control,sometimes it's actually going
for the right help, because it'sthat right help, like you
described, that then helps youwith your own thought process.
It's just paying attention tothem and taking the right action
and the keys we can.
And from what you've described,you're told three months in

(01:12:30):
Nigeria, here you are today andyou know what you did is take
that control from cancer and sayyou know what?
This is my life and I'm goingto leave.
I'm going to be in control andI truly admire you and thank God
for your life and lookingforward to more conversations
and seeing you, you know, pushthrough through this.

(01:12:51):
Thank you, denise, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Thank you.
Thank you very much, Maureen.
Don't worry, we're holidayingtogether soon.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
Yes, we are, we are.
We will have so much fun.
Awesome.
We've gotten to the end ofanother enlightening episode of
Lead to Excel podcast.
Thank you for spending yourvaluable time with us today
diving deep into the intriguingworld of neuroscience and
leadership.
If you found value in ourconversation today and its

(01:13:22):
packed insights or evenquestions, I invite you to share
your thoughts with us.
Join our community on theMindsight Academy it's called
Limitless Leaders Communitywhere we continue the
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Please also consider leaving usa review on Apple Podcasts,

(01:13:46):
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(01:14:12):
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Living with Cancer: A Journey of Survival, Resilience and Advocacy with Dr. Denise Ejoh - E100

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Living with Cancer: A Journey of Survival, Resilience and Advocacy with Dr. Denise Ejoh - E100