March 13, 2025 • 59 mins
In this inspiring episode, Dr. Njide Okonjo-Udochi shares her journey from growing up in academic communities across West Africa to revolutionising healthcare for underserved populations. Raised by professor parents who instilled a commitment to excellence, she developed a relentless drive that shaped her path as a physician entrepreneur.
Rather than retreat when faced with business challenges, Dr. Okonjo-Udochi pursued an MBA, mastering the business of medicine and turning obstacles into opportunities for innovation. She pioneered patient-centered medical homes, integrating primary care, specialists, mental health, and pharmacy services under one roof—transforming access to healthcare for minority and immigrant communities.
Her forward-thinking approach extends beyond borders. She leverages AI to combat physician burnout and connects Nigerian youth with U.S. medical practices, bridging gaps in healthcare and employment. She also highlights the power of mentorship, emphasising the importance of learning from those who embody the future you envision for yourself.
Dr. Okonjo-Udochi’s passion for innovation, leadership, and making a lasting impact shines throughout the conversation.
Her message is clear: “You have only one life to live. Make a difference.”
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you have a challenge, do not recall back.
Look at what you have learnedfrom that challenge you know and
see how you can use that toimprove and improve in what you
do.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That is a snippet of our podcast today.
Hello and welcome to Lead toExcel podcast, where every story
sparks inspiration and everyconversation brings you closer
to your best self.
I'm Maureen Chiana and I'm hereto explore the extraordinary
fusion of leadership, emotionalintelligence and the
(00:37):
groundbreaking insights ofneuroscience.
Whether you're leading a team,building a dream or simply on a
quest for personal growth,you're in the right place, so
let's dive in and transform theway we think, lead and live.
Welcome aboard.
I am so excited to be back withanother episode of Lead to
(00:59):
Excel podcast.
I am actually smiling because Iam with a very, very good
friend of mine.
She's a friend, she's a sisterand we've known each other for a
lot, a lot of years, so todayI'm so honored to have Dr Njide
(01:19):
Okonjo-Udochi with us today.
Dr Njide, thank you for comingon to Lead to Excel podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
You know, I'm really happy tobe able to be on this podcast
and to share, you know, whateverknowledge that I have.
You know, it's so nice to bewith someone who is not just a
friend but actually a sister.
We go back so many years.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Many, many years.
We've known each other since wewere very young, so it's such
an honor to have you on thepodcast today and it's something
I've wanted to do and I think Idid mention it to you a few
years ago that we've got to getonto the podcast, and that's
really because I've seen so muchof what you do.
(02:09):
You do so much in your medicalprofession and outside your
medical profession and I want usto really talk about it today.
But let us go back a bit togrowing up.
Kind of grew up, I think it wasin Ghana and then so yeah, take
us back a bit.
How was it growing up as ayoung girl in Ghana, nigeria?
(02:34):
Tell us a bit about that.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, a lot of people ask me that you know how
was it growing up?
I think it was just whatactually shaped me the life
experiences that I had, theparents that I had growing up
with two academics both myparents were professors.
My dad worked for the UnitedNations and we lived first of
(02:57):
all in Nsukka my dad worked inthe Department of Economics and
my mom in the Department ofSociology and living in a
university community that shapesyou and really you know you are
around, surrounded by a lot ofyou know intellectual people who
just you know you can't help.
You know learning from them.
(03:18):
You know, and imbibing you knowtheir values.
And then from there, I mean Iremember we had uh, professor
Chinua, achebe, people that youhear about now, legends you know
, um, and luminaries, that thatyou hear and people look up to,
um talking and and and visitingour homes and influencing our
(03:41):
upbringing.
In those days it's not like now.
You know you have to be verycareful.
But and then from there wemoved to Ghana and I was also in
the university community.
Even though my father worked forthe United Nations, he loved
being challenged academically,so he loved the university
community, so I grew up at theUniversity of Ghana and actually
(04:04):
learned how to speak Chwee andGa, which are two languages in
Ghana.
And growing up then you know ittaught me to you know to be
able to be flexible, to meetpeople from different parts of
the world.
A lot of my dad's colleagueswere from all over the world
Bangladesh.
(04:25):
You know India, you knowdifferent parts of Africa, the
US and so on, and so it's you.
And then you grew up with theirkids.
So, plus, we had a lot of ourGhanaian friends in school.
So it just taught you to beable to be flexible and to you
(04:46):
know embrace people for who theyare.
And it also showed us thateverybody's the same.
We all want the same things.
It doesn't matter where you'refrom.
You know we have the samevalues.
You know, going into differentpeople's homes, our friends at
that time, what my father wastelling me was what their
parents were telling them.
So, from all over.
(05:07):
And then so I think, for us aschildren, it really shaped us.
You know the ability to to loveanybody you know it doesn't
matter where they are from andto to learn that we are all the
same and to be respectful ofpeople, no matter what.
So I will say uh, my sister andI like to say, you know, and my
(05:28):
other siblings that weredetribalized or denationalized,
we just love people for who theyare yeah, yeah, and that
actually comes out in in the wayyou live as well.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And still back in when we're young, I want to ask
you a question, because Iremember when we were young at
school, you were one personbecause we were actually in the
same class and you were sostudious I would look at Inchide
studying so much and I would go.
I should be doing this, but youknow, I'm going to confess true
(06:02):
confession here I wasn't verygood at doing that.
So, Nchide, what was drivingyou at that age?
What was it that made you?
Because it's almost like youwere so focused, you knew what
you wanted and you were sodetermined.
How did you?
What was it?
How did that come about or whatwas the thought process at that
(06:25):
time?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
You know, I mean a lot of people ask me that
because I've always been, youknow, like, really focused and
really studious.
I think part of it is just myparents Both my parents were
professors.
They expected the best from usand they demanded excellence and
being, you know, my father'schild, my mom's child, I just
(06:53):
they, they really gave us goals.
You know, before you went toschool there was a goal you had
to be.
Nobody had in any class.
You had to work hard.
My dad told us, you know, youwould always talk about the
Biafran war and how they losteverything and how he built up
from that to where he is today.
And you know, and he would tellus to just not look at the
(07:18):
immediate you know attractionsof being a child, but to think
about the future and what youwant to become, and to the only
way to do that was to work hardand be focused, not follow a
follower.
You know, and he, he believesso much in the power of
academics and that excellingwill get you to wherever.
And my dad would say, you know,it's not.
(07:41):
It's not okay for you to be thebest in one subject.
You have to be the best in onesubject.
You have to be the best inevery subject.
You have to.
If somebody has one degree, youhave to get three so that when
it comes to time you know to, tosucceed, you know, or to excel,
or to be chosen for something,you will be the one that is
chosen.
He was obsessed with you know,being successful and education,
(08:05):
and he believed in the power ofworking hard and being focused,
even at an early age.
So he instilled that in me andI just think I mean I looked up
to my parents.
I saw the kind of you know, thevalues they had and the way
they behaved.
They were very hardworkingpeople and so I just copied what
(08:26):
I saw.
You know I just you know wasemulating what I saw at home.
And I knew that in order for meto be successful, I had to work
hard and I couldn't bedistracted by whatever was going
on in school at the time.
I know it seems cliche, buthonestly, at that early age,
that's all I wanted to do.
I knew I had to do work andexcel and there was no other way
(08:50):
but to study.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's amazing.
That was amazing and I likewhat you've said in terms of you
go back to school with goalsand it's so, that's so important
and you can see the impact it'shad on all, all of you.
You know the way you werebrought up and the impact it's
had on how you've all turned outand that's really incredible
(09:15):
and it's something that peopledon't even realize that, as your
parents were driving you to, toexcellence or for excellence,
it was wiring your brain to bethat focus, to be excellent.
So that because, honestly, Iremember you and it was
excellence you always went forexcellence, you were very
(09:37):
studious, you knew why you werethere and you focused on that
and I could see it even play outin your life as an adult as
well.
That, and I could see it evenplay out in your life as an
adult as well.
So that's, you know, I thinkfor us as parents, or for young
parents growing up, this is abig lesson Whatever you sow into
your kids will determine whatthey become tomorrow.
(09:58):
So it's so important thosegoals you set, what you tell
them, your expectations of them,really makes a difference.
Thank you so much for sharingthat with us and it's amazing.
Your incredible parents aretruly incredible, honestly.
So Inchiday what made you decideto study medicine?
Why medicine specifically?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You know, actually I love art.
Anyone who knows me knows thatI love art.
You can see behind me I have atrue because your house.
Yes, I'm obsessed with that.
So I'm a very pretty person, Ilike decorating, um, and I
really thought I was going to doarchitecture because I loved,
um, art and interior design.
(10:42):
But, um, that's, that's just my.
And, if you remember, in schoolwe had an art class and I was
always there with a teacher andyou know I just love creativity
and and that.
So, um, but I was really hard,I was going, I was very good in
science and my mom, uh, kept ontelling me you know, you're good
(11:04):
in, you know you should be adoctor, you know, and in those
days it's not now you tell kidsyou know, do this.
And they're like no, I want todo whatever.
I.
Because I looked up to myparents, you know, they would
say you need to be a physician,you need to be a physician.
And I said, ok, you know.
And then in school, at QueensCollege, lagos, you know, we had
(11:28):
a school guidance counselor andI went up to them and I said
you know, my parents want me tobe a doctor.
And they said, yeah, you'revery smart, you should do
medicine, you know.
So that's actually what got meinterested.
I wasn't like, my father wasn'ta physician, neither was my mom
.
They were both academics, but Istarted.
Then I started, you know,exploring it even more myself,
(11:51):
you know, reading up, you knowmore about medicine and biology
and so on, and I found out thatI loved it.
You know it was like a novel.
So I said, ok, I'm going to trythis.
And that's actually how I gotmyself into medicine.
And then I applied to go tomedical school, you know, in
Nigeria.
And then, you know, I got inand the rest is history.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So now I want you to tell us about this history.
So can you just tell us brieflywho Inchide is?
What do you do?
Because you, I know you run,you're the CEO of Summit Medical
Group and I know you had a apractice general practice before
that.
So can you tell us a bit aboutwhat you do at the moment?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
yeah, um, so, yes, I'm a family physician, I'm also
a geriatrician.
I like to say that because, um,uh, even though I'm a family
doctor, I did a fellowship ingeriatrics because of my dad.
He was a statistician and heinsisted that, because of the
way the statistics was workingout, if I was going to be in the
(13:00):
United States I needed to do afellowship in geriatrics.
Geriatrics is really abouttaking care of older people, so
I specialize in that.
But, you know, following that,you know I did work for Mercy
Medical Center.
After my residency andfellowship, you know, I got
(13:23):
married, I had little kids and Ineeded a job that would combine
preventive medicine, clinicalmedicine and give me time to be
able to raise my young family.
So at that time I decided tolook for a public health job, a
job that combined both publichealth work as well as clinical
(13:43):
work, and I was hired by MercyMedical Center to run the health
care for the homeless programin Baltimore City.
And that was so rewardingbecause I was able to blend my
public public health experienceand my clinical practice as the
medical director for forhealthcare for the homeless.
(14:04):
This was one of the mostrewarding experiences in my
career because it was during thetime of the AIDS epidemic and I
was just there and if you thinkback then, there was a big
outbreak of, you know, anepidemic also of drug substance
(14:24):
abuse.
So I got involved in addictionmedicine, hiv medicine, in order
to be able to deal, to actuallytake care of these patients.
So, working with the homeless,it really inspired me because
you had to create a new systemfor them.
Who wants to take care ofhomeless patients, you know,
(14:46):
without having, you know, aholistic approach to it?
You had to bring in specialistsbecause a lot of them had needs
that you know were far morethan primary care doctors could
do.
You needed social workers, youneeded addiction counselors and
basically, you had to create ahome for them.
So that enabled me to createwhat I call a patient-centered
(15:07):
medical home, aligning otherspecialists to us so that there
were people who could come intothe practice, deal with their
mental health issues.
We had psychiatrists, we hadsocial workers, we had addiction
counselors and I saw how theoutcomes were just phenomenal.
The patients who came in, thehomeless patients, did so much
(15:32):
better.
They had all their care in onespace, including the specialty
care, you know, and we hadpeople were referring to who had
the same vision and goals andwho really saw the mission of
what we're trying to do andcreate a healthcare for the
homeless.
So with that in mind, afterseveral years of working there,
(15:52):
I decided to start my ownpractice.
That's how I found MillenniumFamily Practice, which was a
solo private practice which Ihad for several years.
And then, of course, when myson became a physician and he
decided to do internal medicine,I enticed him into being a
primary care doctor to continuethe kind of work that I was
(16:13):
doing and because it was, it'sso rewarding to be able to take
care of people right to youwhere they keep house of
medicine, as they say.
He did internal medicine and sohe was a different specialty
and I wanted to see how I couldexpand my practice and get other
(16:35):
people involved into the samekind of model of care that I had
used that was so successfulpreviously at health care for
the homeless.
So in creating Summit MedicalGroup, it's what I like to call
my own patient centered medicalhome that has other physicians.
(16:57):
So we have other physicians inour practice.
We have psychiatric nursepractitioners, we have a
nutritionist, you know.
We have therapists.
So the whole idea is to havecare in one space, and that
necessitated the importance ofhaving a building where people
could be in and the specialistcould also be in the same space,
(17:18):
to enable patients be morecompliant, to make it easier for
them to access specialty careand access services.
So we have lab work there, wehave other specialists that we
have a pharmacy.
So it's in creating this carethat enabled me to, you know,
actually go out and show thatwhen you actually have a vision
(17:45):
that you can accomplish it, youknow, and improve health care
for the population that you'reserving.
For the population that we serveis mostly minorities and
immigrants, you know, and sothat population, as you can see,
they have so many challengeswith social determinants of
health challenges with socialdeterminants of health, and so
(18:07):
having some having everything inone space makes it easier for
compliance, you know, and helpsthem, you know, achieve the
goals that they have to do asfar as their healthcare is and
it has been, you know, really ablessing for us to be able to do
this and help demonstrate thateven minorities, you can improve
their health indices and theirhealth outcomes, you know, by,
(18:28):
you know, having care that ismore of a holistic approach and
care that recognizes thechallenges they face and you
address those challenges forthem.
They can do very well.
So that's that.
So I'm the CEO of SummitMedical Group and I'm just
blessed to have an incredibleyou know support staff.
(18:51):
You know the providers that wehave are very, very, very bought
into the vision of what we'redoing.
It's, it's like it's a, it's amission to be able to help this
population and to actually movethe needle in improving health
outcomes for this populationhere in the United States.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's incredible.
That's amazing, and I love thefact that it's almost like a
one-stop shop, one place whereeveryone comes.
What has been the challenge,though, for you in terms of
navigating this route?
Because one of the things youtalked about was when you were
working with HIV mental healthand I know it's rewarding, but
(19:35):
what were the challenges youfaced in terms of working with
homeless people, people with HIVin the 90s?
How did you find that and howhas that helped, or how did that
help you in terms of you knowlater, or of you know after you
left that aspect?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
so I know, um, the, what I learned.
There's nothing more valuablethan actually being there, being
part of the, the solution.
Um, as you can be, as you caneverybody.
If you think back, you know yousee it was a very challenging
time during the HIV epidemic.
But one of the things I learnedis that you have to
(20:15):
individualize care.
You have guidelines, but whenpatients are people, everybody's
different and you can take theguidelines and you know you make
it and fashion it to thatparticular patient.
So we would use differentregimens.
You know entry and that what wecall a heart therapy, we I
would create different regimensto, to for the patients so that
(20:37):
they would do better, beingstill being aware of what the
guidelines were.
So that was one of the things II learned and also I learned
that it's so, it's so, it's soimportant to involve other
people, to collaborate.
You know it's very challengingto deal with this population.
You can't do it alone and I amso happy because when I went to
(21:00):
get my MBA and, uh, I went backto Cornell to learn more about
the business of medicine andhealth policy, because you get
to a certain point in your lifeyou have to know about how to
survive as an entity, anorganization, a business, and
also what policy drives it, whatI call the political
determinants of health.
What are those policies thatcan drive the industry that
(21:24):
you're in and how can youinfluence that?
So, going back to Cornell, itreally reinforced what my belief
was that you have to know.
You know that you teamwork,collaboration is the way to go,
and I was doing this during theCOVID pandemic, and the lessons
that I learned during the HIVepidemic came to play for us,
(21:48):
because at that time, we had acore group of providers in the
city and it was those sameproviders that I called together
to say look, we have thispandemic, we need to work
together to make sure we'resaving people's lives.
And so we formed that WhatsAppgroup.
And so we formed that WhatsAppgroup.
We were learning from eachother, looking and seeing what
providers were doing, otherphysicians were doing in China,
(22:11):
in Europe, in the United Kingdom, in Italy.
We're learning from that to tryto use those lessons to also
help our patients here in theUnited States.
So all that you know, if, ifCOVID didn't teach us anything,
it taught us that you have towork together, you have to
collaborate to go far.
(22:33):
It's not a competition, it'swins.
Collaboration wins overcompetition, and I say this a
lot to people.
You know you, we can all win.
You know it doesn't have to bejust use being successful.
Bring others in work with otherpeople around you, and that's
the policy and the way that I'vedone my work over the years.
I like to say that there areenough patients for everybody
(22:56):
and we need doctors of allstripes and in all specialties,
so there's no need to fight overpatient turf or anything like
that.
I can have any primary caredoctor move next to me.
There are patients who want tosee that kind of physician and
patients who want to see us.
So because of that it's you knowthe lessons that that taught me
(23:17):
and what we did during theCOVID pandemic that saved a lot
of people's lives show that itis so, so important to have
other people with you as you tryto implement change, and to
have other people with you asyou try to reach a larger
population, a larger community.
(23:39):
If you want to have an impact,and have an impact that is
outstanding, you have to bringothers, because you don't know
it all.
It's so interesting when youhave other people and you're
collaborating, how those people,the other group or the other
company, you know what theybring, the expertise, you know,
just talking with them changesthe direction and actually moves
(24:04):
the needle even farther thanyou would think.
So I believe in the power ofcollaboration, you know, with
other people.
So that's what it's reallytaught me and so that is, you
know, the premise with which I,you know I run my business, is a
premise with which, you know, Ido all the things that I do now
and in trying to look forpeople who will work with us to
(24:25):
improve healthcare, not onlyhere in the United that I do now
, and in trying to look forpeople who will work with us to
improve healthcare, not onlyhere in the United States,
because now, with technology andwe know, now we have digital
technology we can even expandcare into Africa and help, you
know, our continent, which Ilove so much, you know, to help
the providers there through, youknow, using digital technology,
(24:46):
doing second opinion consults,so to improve, you know, the
care that is being providedthere there's a lot of
challenges in Nigeria and otherAfrican countries and also to
find a way to, you know, employthe youth.
You know, I know that there's somany challenges we have here
with human resources.
(25:07):
I know that there's so manychallenges we have here with
human resources and one of thethings that I've been doing, one
of my projects, is actuallyworking with an organization,
center for Social Awareness.
You know, forming a trifecta ofcompanies Summit Medical Group
(25:28):
with them, with CSAE, as well asFirst Patient Engagement three
of us coming together to makesure that youth are trained in
Nigeria and that the youth arealso trained and able to work.
We offer employment to theseyouth so that they can support
practices here in the USremotely, and that is how my you
(25:53):
know, the organization that wehave, our group, has been
working because these youth,they're really, really skilled
and I'm telling you, if you lookat what the Nigerian youth, you
know how talented they are,even with the limited resources
you, you, it will blow your mind.
So I, you know I have a lot ofthem.
(26:15):
You know, helping our practice,front and the front office, as
well as back office.
You know things like virtual,acting as virtual assistants,
helping with answering thephones, you know medical
receptionist.
These are opportunities thatnow exist, that didn't exist
before.
We had digital technology right, and they also help alleviate
(26:36):
the work that we do.
So there's a center in Apapathat houses, you know, these
employees.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So you provide them with accommodation.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yes, there's accommodation.
There's also a digital center,a call center?
Yes, a call center where they goto and you know it's all secure
, hipaa compliant and workingwith First Patient Engagement
and us.
We've been able to demonstratethis and we're actually planning
(27:12):
to scale this across the UnitedStates to different physicians
you know and practices all overthe US, you know, and beyond.
It just shows that once youwork with other people, you can
put like minds together and dosomething that has a positive
impact.
It will help youth unemploymentin Nigeria, provide them with
(27:33):
money because they get paid forthe work they do.
It helps.
It's a win win situation, youknow it.
It helps the physicians here inthe US run their practices even
better.
The US run their practices evenbetter, and those same people,
those same youth, can also betrained with two other.
There are so many other aspectsof medicine I mean in terms of
(27:54):
front and back office jobs thatthey can do.
That actually helps a practicemove forward and helps the
workflow.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Gosh, this is just incredible and I think I'm
listening to you and I want Ithink one thing that really
comes through is your passion.
Your passion for what you doreally always comes through and
I want to ask you a questionabout about you, before I come
back to the business again.
(28:25):
Your parents were academics.
Where did you get your businessacumen from?
Because you just did an MBArecently, so your business
acumen has been way back.
Where did that come from?
How did that develop?
Because I just see how you thatdeveloped, because I just see
(28:50):
how you, even listening to youspeaking the way you can, you're
very visionary about what youdo and it's incredible and the
key thing, another thing thatreally comes through is the
confidence to collaborate,because a lot of leaders shy
away from collaboration out offear of competition, but you
actually embrace it and that isa skill of a great business
(29:11):
person and a confident person.
So where did this come from?
How or when did you notice orhow, how did you nurture
yourself to to to be like that?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I um.
The word that they say in uhsay in business is to
differentiate.
It is so important for you toknow the population you want to
work with and to do somethingthat other people are not doing,
and that's what they calldifferentiation.
If you want to be successful,you have to differentiate.
(29:46):
I knew earlier on that I wasn'ta hospital based physician.
I wanted to be outpatient.
I felt like that was where myvalue was going to be, and my
value proposition was to offersomething that was different
from what was being offeredyears ago at that time.
At that time so in around 2003,2004, I was like you know, what
(30:07):
can I do?
That is different.
Focus on the population that Ilove minorities, immigrants but
also, you know, provide serviceson the weekends, on the
evenings, do something thatother people were not doing at
that time, before we startedhaving urgent cares and things
like you know, and walk-inclinics and so on then.
And so it's that, with that inmind, you know, having a clear
(30:36):
vision of where you want to goand what you want to do, that
really, you know, helped mefocus and, you know, continue to
do the work and the rewards, tosee the rewards of the patients
doing better.
And also you know I've hadchallenges.
You know it's not easy.
People see you and they think,oh, everything is all so good.
(30:56):
There's nobody who is inbusiness who doesn't know how
difficult and challenging it is.
You know, first of all as awoman.
Then you know as a minority, asan immigrant in a country.
You have to jump through a lotof hoops.
How do you get lines of creditto be able to buy equipment to
see patients and so on?
(31:17):
It's a constant struggle.
But it's in knowing and beingconfident that what you're doing
brings value and having a longview.
I always tell people you know Ihave a long view of medicine,
you know.
You know if you have a longview and you know that the
services you're going to providewill make a difference and not
looking for the profit the nextday, you know, if you provide
(31:41):
excellent services, people aregoing to come to you.
In Nigeria we say better marketsells itself, so I don't
advertise.
I allow the services that Iprovide to make a difference in
the lives of the patients thatcome in there and they are the
ones that bring others.
And that's how I was able togrow and it's been challenging
(32:04):
as far as how I learned it,honestly it was organic.
I didn't really go to businessschool.
I read a lot and I like to lookat people who are successful.
And also I have to say thatI've had mentors and I've had
advocates, and I always tellpeople, when you're looking for
(32:30):
mentors or advocates for you, itdoesn't necessarily have to be
a woman, a black person.
My mentor was a white man whosaw in me something that he felt
was good and he would guide me.
He would come to me, would meet, he would tell me what was
going on in the community, whatI needed to do to reposition
myself, and so having mentorshipand having someone to look up
to was so critical, you know,for me as a young doctor then,
(32:53):
and you know so I would say thatthat really helped me and to
guide me over the years.
And I'm going to give a shoutout always to Dr Lauren
Silverberg, who saw something inme and was my biggest
cheerleader, pushing me andtelling me to you know, get out
of my comfort zone, liaise withpeople who were not like me.
(33:15):
I, you know, I have friends inall the communities.
I would say, you know, itdoesn't matter my specialists,
that I really form acollaboration with all over the
world.
They're white, they're blackfrom all everywhere.
All over the world, they arewhite, they are black from
everywhere all over the MiddleEast, everywhere and it allows
you to get into differentcommunities.
I have to shout out to Dr DaisyO'Parl, a radiologist, who I
(33:37):
work with.
So it's very, very rewarding forme to be able to use what I'm
learning from other peopleseeing what other people are
doing, what is it that isworking for them and learn from
them.
You don't have to be jealousabout anyone you know and I
think that's what holds back alot of people Envy and jealousy
(33:59):
blocks your you know yourrewards.
When you see someone who issuccessful, what I want to do is
this person is doing well, thisgroup is doing well, this
hospital is doing well.
What are they doing to do well?
That's all that comes to me.
How can I use their lesson toimprove on me?
What is it that I can learnfrom them?
(34:29):
So I usually will gravitatetowards people who are positive,
people who see you know what Iwant to do, who I see I can look
up to, and my whole thing isabout learning.
So I want to learn from them.
How is it that you made adifference in your community?
How is it that you made adifference in your practice?
How are you surviving?
That's what I ask them first,and learning from them teaches
me to use those lessons to seehow I can use that to implement
whatever I have to do for mybusiness.
(34:51):
So that's, that's really how Istarted with my business,
growing my business and learningfrom there.
And also I've had setbacks.
You know medicine in the UnitedStates.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Talk to us a bit sorry I was going to say talk to
us a bit about setbacks you'vehad or challenges and how you've
navigated that.
You don't even have to go intotoo much detail, but just you
know, kind of give us a flairfor what, how challenging it has
been and how you, you know whathelped you, whether it's
(35:27):
mentally, whether it's peoplearound you to get through that.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
So medicine in the US , you know, you get very good
clinical training, but you neverget training about the business
of medicine.
And one of the things I didn'tknow at the time was that
anything that is done in youroffice, even if it's done by a
contracted entity, actuallycomes back to you.
(35:56):
You know, and nobody's toldthat we don't learn what they
call billing and coding.
We don't, we basically contractit out.
We don't have classes, we arenot trained in that.
You only learn that when you gointo practice.
You know, and then you'retaught here and there.
You know one class here, oneclass there.
It's not really a comprehensivetraining on that and that is so
(36:19):
, so important.
So the what I learned, you know, I learned by myself, you know
through self-help books, youknow looking at.
You know working with differentbilling companies and so on,
and I had challenges where abilling company actually came in
and was billing wrongly, youknow, and of course this was a
(36:40):
contracted entity, and whatended up happening was I ended
up having to be the one to bearthe brunt of it, you know, to be
the one who had to refund moneybecause they did something that
was wrong, they used the wrongcoding.
But what did I do with that?
You know, it was a verydifficult time.
It taught me a lot.
I spoke with my father and hesaid to me NJ, when you have
(37:04):
this challenge, what do you do?
You have two ways to look atchallenges, or what you call
failures.
Now you can learn from it oryou can recall back and be
defeated by it.
And I think a lot of times,when people face challenges in
their life, the first thing youwant to do is to retreat, you
(37:25):
know.
But no, what you need to do issay this happened and what can I
learn from this and how can Inavigate this to make things
better?
And it was so important for mebecause, guess what, my son was
a physician and I needed to knowmore.
So what I did was enroll inCornell, at the Johnson School,
(37:48):
to do an MBA so I could learnmore about the business of
medicine, and then in themedical school in New York to
learn about health policy.
What are those drivers that wehave here that I can learn from?
And how can we influence it?
At physicians?
Because you can be a doctor,you can get all these degrees,
(38:09):
but how do you get politiciansand policymakers to change, to
actually see that what thosepolicies, or to implement
policies that help you as apracticing physician and help
your patients.
And so that's why I went tobusiness school and then, as I
did that and explored that, Isaid you know, this is not
(38:31):
something that I need to usejust for the United States.
I need to use this global.
So that's why I enrolled in theHarvard program and completed
the certificate in global healthas a global health leader and
learning from so many wonderfuland talented individuals, and I
will tell you that this reallyhelped me.
(38:52):
You know so you need to look atfailure.
For me, what it taught me iswhenever you have a challenge,
you know so you need to look atfailure.
For me, what it taught me iswhenever you have a challenge or
failure, whatever you want tocall it you want to look at that
and use that to actuallycatapult yourself, as we say in
Nigeria, to something evenbetter.
How do you use what hashappened to you for the greater
good?
(39:12):
You know, um, and so there's somany physicians who have gone
through challenges in theirpractice and the first thing
they do is you know they don'twant to practice medicine and so
on.
But no, you know, you havespent so many years doing this.
When you have a challenge, donot recall back.
Look at what you have learnedfrom that challenge, you know,
(39:34):
and see how you can use that toimprove and improve in what you
do.
And I learned so much aboutdifferent companies in the
business school that failed andactually risen and done better.
You learn a lot.
It was so much, so good to beback in an academic setting to
learn from other individuals.
(39:56):
My classmates all of them atCornell were wonderful in
helping me navigate.
You know the business, you knowbusiness world and to see
really taught me about how youcan make a difference in your
community, how you can use theknowledge that you have to
improve the practicing life ofphysicians.
So I'm so.
(40:16):
You know you hear a lot aboutphysician burnout and so on.
I love what I do and I wantother physicians who are there
to also love their specialty.
So how can we improve thepractice climate of doctors?
How do we get other physiciansto love what they do and they're
not moving to other occupations?
And they're not moving to otheroccupations is by making sure
that when they practice, thatthey feel valued, that they feel
(40:39):
included, that they feel, youknow, that their work situation
does not cost them what they nowcall burnout.
You know, making sure that theyget paid for the work that they
do, you know.
So it's for me.
It's really got me into digitaltechnology and trying to see
how we could use technology toimprove practice.
(40:59):
You know the practice patternsand workflows for physicians,
because that's really whatreally bothers us.
We have to go back home andchart, you know, and spend hours
instead of hanging out with ourspouses and children and
friends and family.
We're doing work at home.
So what can we do to improve,you know, the practicing life of
(41:20):
physicians, whether it's afront office work and back
office work.
And I talked before about using,you know, digital or, I'm sorry
, virtual receptionists, but youcould reuse technology to for
scribing.
You know, using AI.
Ai has been so helpful inhelping, you know, us reconnect
with patients, because whenyou're on the computer typing
(41:42):
what a patient is saying, you'renot really engaging that
patient.
The patient is.
It's as if you're more engagedwith the computer.
You know you're doing what youhave to do to show that the
patient came in, but patientsdon't really value that.
I'm working with immigrants andminority.
You really need to be there,you have to be.
They have to feel you, yourpresence.
So AI has been so helpful,using AI scribing, you know.
(42:06):
So you have your AI on when I,when I'm seeing patients and I'm
talking to them, and it's ableto actually recreate the whole
visit for me and you know, I'mold now, you know, so typing is
not my, you know, my, you know.
This really helps me type upthe whole visit.
It captures everything.
So for me, you know, I thinkthat doctors should embrace you
(42:31):
know technology and use it toaugment the work that they do,
and this is really what I'vereally gotten involved with.
So I'm really working at theintersection of health
technology as well as medicine,advising some startups on what
they can do, what they'rebringing to you know, creations
(42:58):
and innovations that can helpphysicians in their practice.
You know, and it's nice to beable to be a consultant to these
startups, because I believethat it's only when you have a
practicing physician who isactually doing the work that you
can actually have them doinnovations that really matter,
(43:20):
that really move the needle inthe right direction.
There are a lot of innovationsthat are coming out in
technology and health technology, but a lot of times they don't
really meet the needs of thepeople who are using them.
So being a physician who canadvise these startups in what
they're doing has been veryrewarding to me, because I know
(43:40):
that with what I'm doing, youknow, and the work that I'm
providing for them, the advice,you know, the consultation, the
end product will be somethingthat is definitely will be more
useful to other physicians intheir places of work and as and
help their workflow, um, whetherthey're in the hospital system
(44:03):
or our patient.
So it's, it's really been umamazing.
You know I'm not a digitaltechnology.
You know, uh, lover, I lovetechnology.
I see that passion.
You know what?
How can we digitize this?
Everything is you know, how canwe create something to make it
better?
And and I think it's also anice, because with technology,
(44:26):
you can immediately see whatimpact you're making, you can
quantify it is very measurablecan use the data you have to
actually, you know, show whetheryou're trying to get a line of
credit or you're trying to getmore grants or whatever to do
your work, to show the impact ofwhat you're doing and manage
(44:52):
you know especially AI and makesure that you know, communities
that we serve.
You know that whatever is beingdone is addressed, you know, but
for the overall, I think thattechnology in medicine has been,
you know, really, reallyrevolutionary in trying to help
us improve practice and alsohelp us with improving access
(45:20):
access to care.
Now you can do telemedicine aspatients in Nigeria and Ghana or
Liberia and help thosephysicians manage those patients
where we know that we have ashortage of physicians and
providers all over the continent.
With technology, we are able tomake an impact and help save
(45:42):
lives of people who are on thecontinent with actually being
there.
So you don't have to do amedical mission to be able to
help a physician group, whetherit's in Liberia or in Sierra
Leone or Ghana or Nigeria, tochange and improve the work that
they're doing to help patientsthere.
So, and to actually be anadvisor.
(46:03):
You can do this, you know, inreal time, and so it's very
rewarding to me.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Wow, and Jay, that's you know.
You've really touched on somuch and I think listening to
you is just so inspiring.
I want to ask you a question.
I know we're almost coming ontoday.
I want to ask you a questionabout using AI during
consultation, especially withminority groups.
Have you found any form ofresistance?
(46:30):
Do they hesitate?
Do they get concerned that youhave AI recording what they're
saying?
How has that been?
Speaker 1 (46:40):
I mean, actually it's been embraced, because I think,
first of all, you really haveto let them know what it is.
People get very worried whenthey think that you know they're
being recorded or you're usingtechnology to record them.
But it's in, really, you knowthey're being recorded or you're
using technology to record them, but it's in, really, you know,
explaining what you're doing.
(47:00):
So we start off by you know,really informing the patients
about what we're doing.
And, you know, once they see itand once the note is done, I
can show it to them, they canread it.
They are just amazed, you know,because it allows, they see
that it allows me to actually bemore present during the office
visit.
So, you know, I know that a lotof minority patients, you know,
(47:25):
have reservations when it comesto technology and AI and so on.
But, honestly, it's in how youexplain it to the patient, how
is this going to bring value tothat patient interaction during
that?
And they can see, because Ihave it on and I'm just, you
know, talking to them, you know,chatting to them, you know, and
(47:46):
getting their history and it's,you know, it's been very
helpful.
At the end of the visit, theycan see what the end result is
they can look at the encounterand see whether there's anything
they want to add to it orremove from it, and so it's just
being transparent.
I think when you're not, that'swhere it creates a problem, you
know so.
(48:06):
It's been embracedwholeheartedly by our patient
population.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that, because I
think the point you raise aboutspeaking to them, communication
is so important.
I always say, when youcommunicate, the emotional brain
calms down.
So even if they were worriedbefore, it just calms them down
and then they're able to reallytalk.
They're able to really insteadof being worried about oh, what
(48:36):
are you recording, what am Igoing to say, what I need to be
careful, what I'm saying.
That way they're not actuallytelling you exactly what, why
they've come, and you as wellcannot be present and listening
to them.
And I think it's just fantasticthat you shared that.
But that key point ofcommunicate with them just
(48:58):
communication is so powerful andyou see, there's just so much.
You touched on that.
I just love the challenge youwent through, but how you dealt
with it, how you deal with thosechallenges, is just incredible
and it's a lesson for everyonelistening that when challenges
come, what do you do?
(49:19):
Do you freeze, do you run away,or do you stop and process it
and learn from it and moveforward?
And what you did is justincredible.
You decided to actually go outand learn and equip yourself,
empower yourself and come backand then gave birth to Summit
(49:40):
Medical Group, which is justincredible.
So honestly, NJ, it's just.
It's a pleasure really chattingwith you and I want to touch on
two things before we finish.
You talked about a mentor.
You talked about a mentor and Ithink my question is did you,
(50:01):
did the mentor come to you?
Did he see something in you?
Or were you the one thatactually reached out to him to
mentor you?
How did that?
How did that start?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
so he um my mentor was a professor in my program
during my residency and duringthat time we formed, you know, I
was very interested in learningabout outpatient practice and
what we could do and I saw thatthe way he was teaching me and
the things he taught us asresidents was something that I
(50:29):
really wanted to emulate.
So I reached out to him and Isaid to him I would like to
learn from you.
You are someone who you knowembodies the kind of doctor I
would like to be and he was soJust you know, and we developed
a relationship over the yearswhere he led me and helped me
actually start my practice andbuild my practice.
(50:51):
So you have to reach out.
You have to look for someonewho inspires you, who, someone
(51:12):
who you know you want to be like, somebody who who really
creates those positive momentsin you and has a vision.
You know that that can that youreally want, you know to have.
Is there someone in your lifethat you can look up to to say I
want to be like this person andreach out to someone around you
(51:32):
and see whether they can mentoryou.
So I did reach out and it's beena wonderful relationship over
30 years and he's been by myside through every single thing
that I've done and introduced meto so many people, has been
very helpful, worked through theups and downs of business and
practice, and that's what peopleneed.
(51:54):
You need somebody who is anadvocate for you, who will be in
that room when you're not, whowill speak up and tell people
the kind of person you are.
And it doesn't have to besomeone who is from your town,
your village you know, this is awhite man that helped me, so it
(52:15):
can be anyone.
Someone who embodies who youwould like to be, like, so, and
someone who inspires.
So I mean, that's how I met DrSilverberg.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, no, that's amazing.
You were proactive, you reachedout to him, and I ask that
question because a lot of times,people sit back waiting for
someone to come to them orhesitating from doing something.
But you've got to be soproactive and reach out to
people and, like you said, itdoesn't have to be someone that
(52:48):
looks like you.
It could be anyone, someonethat has you know that you see
something and that can help you.
Thank you so much.
The other thing I want to talkabout probably the last thing
before we go is I want to saycongratulations.
Congratulations, because you area multiple award winner and
(53:09):
it's a lot, and a lot of it aswell, apart from the medical
side, is the philanthropic workyou do.
You do so much, you give somuch back.
Even listening to you in termsof the digital work you're doing
in Nigeria and Africa isincredible how you really bring
(53:31):
people up, train people, bringpeople up, and you've got an
award recently, because Iremember seeing it on LinkedIn
and it was the PhilanthropicAward from the Center for Social
Awareness, advocacy and Ethicsand it's you know.
I know from talking to you.
It's something to do withreally helping to empower people
(53:51):
in terms of leadership and alot.
But talk to us a bit about someof the philanthropy work you do
, because you do so much andit's just incredible and it just
goes to show.
You know, sometimes I'mlistening to you or watching you
and I'm going, where does sheget all this energy?
But the good thing about you isyou work hard and you play hard
(54:16):
.
You know, because you, yeah, goon yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, I think you have to have a balance right.
You know I work really hard,but I also take time out for
myself, you know, and my family.
I take time out for myself andmy family.
I love to travel, and so myselfand my family I love to travel,
and so I like seeing new places, visiting, relaxing, being with
family.
So there has to be a balance inyour life, otherwise you're
(54:45):
going to be burnt out, and youhave, you won't have anything to
give, so you have to retool.
So I certainly do that.
And one of the things that Ilove is really working with
nonprofits nonprofits thatembody my values, and the Center
for Social Awareness, advocacyand Ethics is an organization
run by Catholic priests and it's, you know, the founder is a
(55:08):
Catholic priest, father God'swill, he's Nigerian and
everything.
When he, when he talked aboutfounding this organization and
what he wanted to do, I was 100%behind him.
I'm like you got to do this, wehave to do this.
We have to help the youth inNigeria.
We have to do things to helpyoung people.
They are our future.
You know we're going to get oldsomeday, and so I've been
(55:30):
working with them over the years, you know, supporting them
financially and otherwise to toget to where they are today.
And also I had this anotherorganization near and dear to me
that was on their boardLuminous.
It works with immigrants in inthe Howard County area and
beyond.
And so you know, I do a lot ofwork with nonprofit
organizations that really embodywhat my values are and try and
(55:53):
support them that really embodywhat my values are and try and
support them.
And I always tell people, youknow, supporting an organization
is not just about money, it'salso about you can give of your
time, right Advice, you can givethem connections.
You can help in so manydifferent ways.
It's not just, oh, I don't wantto help because they're going
to ask me for money.
There's so many things you cando, you know, to help
(56:16):
organizations that really bringin value to improving the world
that we live in.
So, yeah, so that's.
I don't even see it as work.
You know it's so nice to beable to, you know, help these
organizations survive and thriveso that they can continue the
work that they do, because itreally helps us.
(56:39):
You know.
It helps us globally, helps us,you know, wherever we are, when
you have nonprofits that aredoing things that are necessary
to make life better for us ascitizens of the world.
So I just look out for thosekinds of organizations and I try
to support them as best that Ican, as I can.
So, yeah, that's.
That's really what my life,lives, work and what I do on the
(57:02):
side.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah, nj, you're an incredible, incredible woman,
incredible friend, incrediblesister.
I'm so honored and thank you somuch for taking time out to
come and spend this time talkingto me, because it really it
wasn't long.
I asked you to do this and yousaid, yes, I'm in.
(57:25):
Thank you so much.
I really do appreciate it.
One thing that I'm just goingto say again, something you said
that I think I want tore-emphasize for everyone
listening is that concept ofdifferentiate.
When I asked NJ about whatreally drives her, how did she
(57:46):
what?
How did she get to where?
You know where she is today,how did she manage the
challenges?
And one of the things she saidis differentiate, differentiate,
do something other people arenot doing, you know.
Look for.
You know.
Differentiate yourself, dosomething different, look for
those things you know, look forwhere there's a need and create
(58:08):
the solution.
Thank you so, so much.
And you've really shown thatthroughout your life.
So so much.
And you've really shown thatthroughout your life, and it's
so.
I think your life is a goodexample of the importance of
what parents sow into children'slives.
You know, because when you sowthat, it then comes out, and I'm
so honored to really to knowyou and for you to come on to
(58:32):
this program, and I'll saycongratulations once again for
the awards and for what you'redoing.
Can you now just end thispodcast by just leaving one
great, you know, word or advice,of wisdom for our listeners?
You have given us so much, butjust the last one that we will
take away with us.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
For everyone listening, I willsay you know that you have only
one life to live.
Make a difference.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Make a difference.
That's a good one to end it,thank you.
Thank you so much, nj.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you.
Yes, and listeners, remember,please subscribe to this podcast
and share, share, share.
Njidia has left so much with ustoday.
(59:24):
She's really opened herself upand given us so much nuggets, so
I look forward to seeing youall in the you know, catching up
again and be with you in ournext episode.
Thank you for listening.
When you have a challenge, do not recall back.
Look at what you have learnedfrom that challenge you know and
see how you can use that toimprove and improve in what you
do.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
That is a snippet of our podcast today.
Hello and welcome to Lead toExcel podcast, where every story
sparks inspiration and everyconversation brings you closer
to your best self.
I'm Maureen Chiana and I'm hereto explore the extraordinary
fusion of leadership, emotionalintelligence and the
(00:37):
groundbreaking insights ofneuroscience.
Whether you're leading a team,building a dream or simply on a
quest for personal growth,you're in the right place, so
let's dive in and transform theway we think, lead and live.
Welcome aboard.
I am so excited to be back withanother episode of Lead to
(00:59):
Excel podcast.
I am actually smiling because Iam with a very, very good
friend of mine.
She's a friend, she's a sisterand we've known each other for a
lot, a lot of years, so todayI'm so honored to have Dr Njide
(01:19):
Okonjo-Udochi with us today.
Dr Njide, thank you for comingon to Lead to Excel podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Oh, I'm so excited to be here.
You know, I'm really happy tobe able to be on this podcast
and to share, you know, whateverknowledge that I have.
You know, it's so nice to bewith someone who is not just a
friend but actually a sister.
We go back so many years.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Many, many years.
We've known each other since wewere very young, so it's such
an honor to have you on thepodcast today and it's something
I've wanted to do and I think Idid mention it to you a few
years ago that we've got to getonto the podcast, and that's
really because I've seen so muchof what you do.
(02:09):
You do so much in your medicalprofession and outside your
medical profession and I want usto really talk about it today.
But let us go back a bit togrowing up.
Kind of grew up, I think it wasin Ghana and then so yeah, take
us back a bit.
How was it growing up as ayoung girl in Ghana, nigeria?
(02:34):
Tell us a bit about that.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You know, a lot of people ask me that you know how
was it growing up?
I think it was just whatactually shaped me the life
experiences that I had, theparents that I had growing up
with two academics both myparents were professors.
My dad worked for the UnitedNations and we lived first of
(02:57):
all in Nsukka my dad worked inthe Department of Economics and
my mom in the Department ofSociology and living in a
university community that shapesyou and really you know you are
around, surrounded by a lot ofyou know intellectual people who
just you know you can't help.
You know learning from them.
(03:18):
You know, and imbibing you knowtheir values.
And then from there, I mean Iremember we had uh, professor
Chinua, achebe, people that youhear about now, legends you know
, um, and luminaries, that thatyou hear and people look up to,
um talking and and and visitingour homes and influencing our
(03:41):
upbringing.
In those days it's not like now.
You know you have to be verycareful.
But and then from there wemoved to Ghana and I was also in
the university community.
Even though my father worked forthe United Nations, he loved
being challenged academically,so he loved the university
community, so I grew up at theUniversity of Ghana and actually
(04:04):
learned how to speak Chwee andGa, which are two languages in
Ghana.
And growing up then you know ittaught me to you know to be
able to be flexible, to meetpeople from different parts of
the world.
A lot of my dad's colleagueswere from all over the world
Bangladesh.
(04:25):
You know India, you knowdifferent parts of Africa, the
US and so on, and so it's you.
And then you grew up with theirkids.
So, plus, we had a lot of ourGhanaian friends in school.
So it just taught you to beable to be flexible and to you
(04:46):
know embrace people for who theyare.
And it also showed us thateverybody's the same.
We all want the same things.
It doesn't matter where you'refrom.
You know we have the samevalues.
You know, going into differentpeople's homes, our friends at
that time, what my father wastelling me was what their
parents were telling them.
So, from all over.
(05:07):
And then so I think, for us aschildren, it really shaped us.
You know the ability to to loveanybody you know it doesn't
matter where they are from andto to learn that we are all the
same and to be respectful ofpeople, no matter what.
So I will say uh, my sister andI like to say, you know, and my
(05:28):
other siblings that weredetribalized or denationalized,
we just love people for who theyare yeah, yeah, and that
actually comes out in in the wayyou live as well.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
And still back in when we're young, I want to ask
you a question, because Iremember when we were young at
school, you were one personbecause we were actually in the
same class and you were sostudious I would look at Inchide
studying so much and I would go.
I should be doing this, but youknow, I'm going to confess true
(06:02):
confession here I wasn't verygood at doing that.
So, Nchide, what was drivingyou at that age?
What was it that made you?
Because it's almost like youwere so focused, you knew what
you wanted and you were sodetermined.
How did you?
What was it?
How did that come about or whatwas the thought process at that
(06:25):
time?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
You know, I mean a lot of people ask me that
because I've always been, youknow, like, really focused and
really studious.
I think part of it is just myparents Both my parents were
professors.
They expected the best from usand they demanded excellence and
being, you know, my father'schild, my mom's child, I just
(06:53):
they, they really gave us goals.
You know, before you went toschool there was a goal you had
to be.
Nobody had in any class.
You had to work hard.
My dad told us, you know, youwould always talk about the
Biafran war and how they losteverything and how he built up
from that to where he is today.
And you know, and he would tellus to just not look at the
(07:18):
immediate you know attractionsof being a child, but to think
about the future and what youwant to become, and to the only
way to do that was to work hardand be focused, not follow a
follower.
You know, and he, he believesso much in the power of
academics and that excellingwill get you to wherever.
And my dad would say, you know,it's not.
(07:41):
It's not okay for you to be thebest in one subject.
You have to be the best in onesubject.
You have to be the best inevery subject.
You have to.
If somebody has one degree, youhave to get three so that when
it comes to time you know to, tosucceed, you know, or to excel,
or to be chosen for something,you will be the one that is
chosen.
He was obsessed with you know,being successful and education,
(08:05):
and he believed in the power ofworking hard and being focused,
even at an early age.
So he instilled that in me andI just think I mean I looked up
to my parents.
I saw the kind of you know, thevalues they had and the way
they behaved.
They were very hardworkingpeople and so I just copied what
(08:26):
I saw.
You know I just you know wasemulating what I saw at home.
And I knew that in order for meto be successful, I had to work
hard and I couldn't bedistracted by whatever was going
on in school at the time.
I know it seems cliche, buthonestly, at that early age,
that's all I wanted to do.
I knew I had to do work andexcel and there was no other way
(08:50):
but to study.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
That's amazing.
That was amazing and I likewhat you've said in terms of you
go back to school with goalsand it's so, that's so important
and you can see the impact it'shad on all, all of you.
You know the way you werebrought up and the impact it's
had on how you've all turned outand that's really incredible
(09:15):
and it's something that peopledon't even realize that, as your
parents were driving you to, toexcellence or for excellence,
it was wiring your brain to bethat focus, to be excellent.
So that because, honestly, Iremember you and it was
excellence you always went forexcellence, you were very
(09:37):
studious, you knew why you werethere and you focused on that
and I could see it even play outin your life as an adult as
well.
That, and I could see it evenplay out in your life as an
adult as well.
So that's, you know, I thinkfor us as parents, or for young
parents growing up, this is abig lesson Whatever you sow into
your kids will determine whatthey become tomorrow.
(09:58):
So it's so important thosegoals you set, what you tell
them, your expectations of them,really makes a difference.
Thank you so much for sharingthat with us and it's amazing.
Your incredible parents aretruly incredible, honestly.
So Inchiday what made you decideto study medicine?
Why medicine specifically?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You know, actually I love art.
Anyone who knows me knows thatI love art.
You can see behind me I have atrue because your house.
Yes, I'm obsessed with that.
So I'm a very pretty person, Ilike decorating, um, and I
really thought I was going to doarchitecture because I loved,
um, art and interior design.
(10:42):
But, um, that's, that's just my.
And, if you remember, in schoolwe had an art class and I was
always there with a teacher andyou know I just love creativity
and and that.
So, um, but I was really hard,I was going, I was very good in
science and my mom, uh, kept ontelling me you know, you're good
(11:04):
in, you know you should be adoctor, you know, and in those
days it's not now you tell kidsyou know, do this.
And they're like no, I want todo whatever.
I.
Because I looked up to myparents, you know, they would
say you need to be a physician,you need to be a physician.
And I said, ok, you know.
And then in school, at QueensCollege, lagos, you know, we had
(11:28):
a school guidance counselor andI went up to them and I said
you know, my parents want me tobe a doctor.
And they said, yeah, you'revery smart, you should do
medicine, you know.
So that's actually what got meinterested.
I wasn't like, my father wasn'ta physician, neither was my mom
.
They were both academics, but Istarted.
Then I started, you know,exploring it even more myself,
(11:51):
you know, reading up, you knowmore about medicine and biology
and so on, and I found out thatI loved it.
You know it was like a novel.
So I said, ok, I'm going to trythis.
And that's actually how I gotmyself into medicine.
And then I applied to go tomedical school, you know, in
Nigeria.
And then, you know, I got inand the rest is history.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
So now I want you to tell us about this history.
So can you just tell us brieflywho Inchide is?
What do you do?
Because you, I know you run,you're the CEO of Summit Medical
Group and I know you had a apractice general practice before
that.
So can you tell us a bit aboutwhat you do at the moment?
Speaker 1 (12:39):
yeah, um, so, yes, I'm a family physician, I'm also
a geriatrician.
I like to say that because, um,uh, even though I'm a family
doctor, I did a fellowship ingeriatrics because of my dad.
He was a statistician and heinsisted that, because of the
way the statistics was workingout, if I was going to be in the
(13:00):
United States I needed to do afellowship in geriatrics.
Geriatrics is really abouttaking care of older people, so
I specialize in that.
But, you know, following that,you know I did work for Mercy
Medical Center.
After my residency andfellowship, you know, I got
(13:23):
married, I had little kids and Ineeded a job that would combine
preventive medicine, clinicalmedicine and give me time to be
able to raise my young family.
So at that time I decided tolook for a public health job, a
job that combined both publichealth work as well as clinical
(13:43):
work, and I was hired by MercyMedical Center to run the health
care for the homeless programin Baltimore City.
And that was so rewardingbecause I was able to blend my
public public health experienceand my clinical practice as the
medical director for forhealthcare for the homeless.
(14:04):
This was one of the mostrewarding experiences in my
career because it was during thetime of the AIDS epidemic and I
was just there and if you thinkback then, there was a big
outbreak of, you know, anepidemic also of drug substance
(14:24):
abuse.
So I got involved in addictionmedicine, hiv medicine, in order
to be able to deal, to actuallytake care of these patients.
So, working with the homeless,it really inspired me because
you had to create a new systemfor them.
Who wants to take care ofhomeless patients, you know,
(14:46):
without having, you know, aholistic approach to it?
You had to bring in specialistsbecause a lot of them had needs
that you know were far morethan primary care doctors could
do.
You needed social workers, youneeded addiction counselors and
basically, you had to create ahome for them.
So that enabled me to createwhat I call a patient-centered
(15:07):
medical home, aligning otherspecialists to us so that there
were people who could come intothe practice, deal with their
mental health issues.
We had psychiatrists, we hadsocial workers, we had addiction
counselors and I saw how theoutcomes were just phenomenal.
The patients who came in, thehomeless patients, did so much
(15:32):
better.
They had all their care in onespace, including the specialty
care, you know, and we hadpeople were referring to who had
the same vision and goals andwho really saw the mission of
what we're trying to do andcreate a healthcare for the
homeless.
So with that in mind, afterseveral years of working there,
(15:52):
I decided to start my ownpractice.
That's how I found MillenniumFamily Practice, which was a
solo private practice which Ihad for several years.
And then, of course, when myson became a physician and he
decided to do internal medicine,I enticed him into being a
primary care doctor to continuethe kind of work that I was
(16:13):
doing and because it was, it'sso rewarding to be able to take
care of people right to youwhere they keep house of
medicine, as they say.
He did internal medicine and sohe was a different specialty
and I wanted to see how I couldexpand my practice and get other
(16:35):
people involved into the samekind of model of care that I had
used that was so successfulpreviously at health care for
the homeless.
So in creating Summit MedicalGroup, it's what I like to call
my own patient centered medicalhome that has other physicians.
(16:57):
So we have other physicians inour practice.
We have psychiatric nursepractitioners, we have a
nutritionist, you know.
We have therapists.
So the whole idea is to havecare in one space, and that
necessitated the importance ofhaving a building where people
could be in and the specialistcould also be in the same space,
(17:18):
to enable patients be morecompliant, to make it easier for
them to access specialty careand access services.
So we have lab work there, wehave other specialists that we
have a pharmacy.
So it's in creating this carethat enabled me to, you know,
actually go out and show thatwhen you actually have a vision
(17:45):
that you can accomplish it, youknow, and improve health care
for the population that you'reserving.
For the population that we serveis mostly minorities and
immigrants, you know, and sothat population, as you can see,
they have so many challengeswith social determinants of
health challenges with socialdeterminants of health, and so
(18:07):
having some having everything inone space makes it easier for
compliance, you know, and helpsthem, you know, achieve the
goals that they have to do asfar as their healthcare is and
it has been, you know, really ablessing for us to be able to do
this and help demonstrate thateven minorities, you can improve
their health indices and theirhealth outcomes, you know, by,
(18:28):
you know, having care that ismore of a holistic approach and
care that recognizes thechallenges they face and you
address those challenges forthem.
They can do very well.
So that's that.
So I'm the CEO of SummitMedical Group and I'm just
blessed to have an incredibleyou know support staff.
(18:51):
You know the providers that wehave are very, very, very bought
into the vision of what we'redoing.
It's, it's like it's a, it's amission to be able to help this
population and to actually movethe needle in improving health
outcomes for this populationhere in the United States.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
That's incredible.
That's amazing, and I love thefact that it's almost like a
one-stop shop, one place whereeveryone comes.
What has been the challenge,though, for you in terms of
navigating this route?
Because one of the things youtalked about was when you were
working with HIV mental healthand I know it's rewarding, but
(19:35):
what were the challenges youfaced in terms of working with
homeless people, people with HIVin the 90s?
How did you find that and howhas that helped, or how did that
help you in terms of you knowlater, or of you know after you
left that aspect?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
so I know, um, the, what I learned.
There's nothing more valuablethan actually being there, being
part of the, the solution.
Um, as you can be, as you caneverybody.
If you think back, you know yousee it was a very challenging
time during the HIV epidemic.
But one of the things I learnedis that you have to
(20:15):
individualize care.
You have guidelines, but whenpatients are people, everybody's
different and you can take theguidelines and you know you make
it and fashion it to thatparticular patient.
So we would use differentregimens.
You know entry and that what wecall a heart therapy, we I
would create different regimensto, to for the patients so that
(20:37):
they would do better, beingstill being aware of what the
guidelines were.
So that was one of the things II learned and also I learned
that it's so, it's so, it's soimportant to involve other
people, to collaborate.
You know it's very challengingto deal with this population.
You can't do it alone and I amso happy because when I went to
(21:00):
get my MBA and, uh, I went backto Cornell to learn more about
the business of medicine andhealth policy, because you get
to a certain point in your lifeyou have to know about how to
survive as an entity, anorganization, a business, and
also what policy drives it, whatI call the political
determinants of health.
What are those policies thatcan drive the industry that
(21:24):
you're in and how can youinfluence that?
So, going back to Cornell, itreally reinforced what my belief
was that you have to know.
You know that you teamwork,collaboration is the way to go,
and I was doing this during theCOVID pandemic, and the lessons
that I learned during the HIVepidemic came to play for us,
(21:48):
because at that time, we had acore group of providers in the
city and it was those sameproviders that I called together
to say look, we have thispandemic, we need to work
together to make sure we'resaving people's lives.
And so we formed that WhatsAppgroup.
And so we formed that WhatsAppgroup.
We were learning from eachother, looking and seeing what
providers were doing, otherphysicians were doing in China,
(22:11):
in Europe, in the United Kingdom, in Italy.
We're learning from that to tryto use those lessons to also
help our patients here in theUnited States.
So all that you know, if, ifCOVID didn't teach us anything,
it taught us that you have towork together, you have to
collaborate to go far.
(22:33):
It's not a competition, it'swins.
Collaboration wins overcompetition, and I say this a
lot to people.
You know you, we can all win.
You know it doesn't have to bejust use being successful.
Bring others in work with otherpeople around you, and that's
the policy and the way that I'vedone my work over the years.
I like to say that there areenough patients for everybody
(22:56):
and we need doctors of allstripes and in all specialties,
so there's no need to fight overpatient turf or anything like
that.
I can have any primary caredoctor move next to me.
There are patients who want tosee that kind of physician and
patients who want to see us.
So because of that it's you knowthe lessons that that taught me
(23:17):
and what we did during theCOVID pandemic that saved a lot
of people's lives show that itis so, so important to have
other people with you as you tryto implement change, and to
have other people with you asyou try to reach a larger
population, a larger community.
(23:39):
If you want to have an impact,and have an impact that is
outstanding, you have to bringothers, because you don't know
it all.
It's so interesting when youhave other people and you're
collaborating, how those people,the other group or the other
company, you know what theybring, the expertise, you know,
just talking with them changesthe direction and actually moves
(24:04):
the needle even farther thanyou would think.
So I believe in the power ofcollaboration, you know, with
other people.
So that's what it's reallytaught me and so that is, you
know, the premise with which I,you know I run my business, is a
premise with which, you know, Ido all the things that I do now
and in trying to look forpeople who will work with us to
(24:25):
improve healthcare, not onlyhere in the United that I do now
, and in trying to look forpeople who will work with us to
improve healthcare, not onlyhere in the United States,
because now, with technology andwe know, now we have digital
technology we can even expandcare into Africa and help, you
know, our continent, which Ilove so much, you know, to help
the providers there through, youknow, using digital technology,
(24:46):
doing second opinion consults,so to improve, you know, the
care that is being providedthere there's a lot of
challenges in Nigeria and otherAfrican countries and also to
find a way to, you know, employthe youth.
You know, I know that there's somany challenges we have here
with human resources.
(25:07):
I know that there's so manychallenges we have here with
human resources and one of thethings that I've been doing, one
of my projects, is actuallyworking with an organization,
center for Social Awareness.
You know, forming a trifecta ofcompanies Summit Medical Group
(25:28):
with them, with CSAE, as well asFirst Patient Engagement three
of us coming together to makesure that youth are trained in
Nigeria and that the youth arealso trained and able to work.
We offer employment to theseyouth so that they can support
practices here in the USremotely, and that is how my you
(25:53):
know, the organization that wehave, our group, has been
working because these youth,they're really, really skilled
and I'm telling you, if you lookat what the Nigerian youth, you
know how talented they are,even with the limited resources
you, you, it will blow your mind.
So I, you know I have a lot ofthem.
(26:15):
You know, helping our practice,front and the front office, as
well as back office.
You know things like virtual,acting as virtual assistants,
helping with answering thephones, you know medical
receptionist.
These are opportunities thatnow exist, that didn't exist
before.
We had digital technology right, and they also help alleviate
(26:36):
the work that we do.
So there's a center in Apapathat houses, you know, these
employees.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
So you provide them with accommodation.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yes, there's accommodation.
There's also a digital center,a call center?
Yes, a call center where they goto and you know it's all secure
, hipaa compliant and workingwith First Patient Engagement
and us.
We've been able to demonstratethis and we're actually planning
(27:12):
to scale this across the UnitedStates to different physicians
you know and practices all overthe US, you know, and beyond.
It just shows that once youwork with other people, you can
put like minds together and dosomething that has a positive
impact.
It will help youth unemploymentin Nigeria, provide them with
(27:33):
money because they get paid forthe work they do.
It helps.
It's a win win situation, youknow it.
It helps the physicians here inthe US run their practices even
better.
The US run their practices evenbetter, and those same people,
those same youth, can also betrained with two other.
There are so many other aspectsof medicine I mean in terms of
(27:54):
front and back office jobs thatthey can do.
That actually helps a practicemove forward and helps the
workflow.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Gosh, this is just incredible and I think I'm
listening to you and I want Ithink one thing that really
comes through is your passion.
Your passion for what you doreally always comes through and
I want to ask you a questionabout about you, before I come
back to the business again.
(28:25):
Your parents were academics.
Where did you get your businessacumen from?
Because you just did an MBArecently, so your business
acumen has been way back.
Where did that come from?
How did that develop?
Because I just see how you thatdeveloped, because I just see
(28:50):
how you, even listening to youspeaking the way you can, you're
very visionary about what youdo and it's incredible and the
key thing, another thing thatreally comes through is the
confidence to collaborate,because a lot of leaders shy
away from collaboration out offear of competition, but you
actually embrace it and that isa skill of a great business
(29:11):
person and a confident person.
So where did this come from?
How or when did you notice orhow, how did you nurture
yourself to to to be like that?
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I um.
The word that they say in uhsay in business is to
differentiate.
It is so important for you toknow the population you want to
work with and to do somethingthat other people are not doing,
and that's what they calldifferentiation.
If you want to be successful,you have to differentiate.
(29:46):
I knew earlier on that I wasn'ta hospital based physician.
I wanted to be outpatient.
I felt like that was where myvalue was going to be, and my
value proposition was to offersomething that was different
from what was being offeredyears ago at that time.
At that time so in around 2003,2004, I was like you know, what
(30:07):
can I do?
That is different.
Focus on the population that Ilove minorities, immigrants but
also, you know, provide serviceson the weekends, on the
evenings, do something thatother people were not doing at
that time, before we startedhaving urgent cares and things
like you know, and walk-inclinics and so on then.
And so it's that, with that inmind, you know, having a clear
(30:36):
vision of where you want to goand what you want to do, that
really, you know, helped mefocus and, you know, continue to
do the work and the rewards, tosee the rewards of the patients
doing better.
And also you know I've hadchallenges.
You know it's not easy.
People see you and they think,oh, everything is all so good.
(30:56):
There's nobody who is inbusiness who doesn't know how
difficult and challenging it is.
You know, first of all as awoman.
Then you know as a minority, asan immigrant in a country.
You have to jump through a lotof hoops.
How do you get lines of creditto be able to buy equipment to
see patients and so on?
(31:17):
It's a constant struggle.
But it's in knowing and beingconfident that what you're doing
brings value and having a longview.
I always tell people you know Ihave a long view of medicine,
you know.
You know if you have a longview and you know that the
services you're going to providewill make a difference and not
looking for the profit the nextday, you know, if you provide
(31:41):
excellent services, people aregoing to come to you.
In Nigeria we say better marketsells itself, so I don't
advertise.
I allow the services that Iprovide to make a difference in
the lives of the patients thatcome in there and they are the
ones that bring others.
And that's how I was able togrow and it's been challenging
(32:04):
as far as how I learned it,honestly it was organic.
I didn't really go to businessschool.
I read a lot and I like to lookat people who are successful.
And also I have to say thatI've had mentors and I've had
advocates, and I always tellpeople, when you're looking for
(32:30):
mentors or advocates for you, itdoesn't necessarily have to be
a woman, a black person.
My mentor was a white man whosaw in me something that he felt
was good and he would guide me.
He would come to me, would meet, he would tell me what was
going on in the community, whatI needed to do to reposition
myself, and so having mentorshipand having someone to look up
to was so critical, you know,for me as a young doctor then,
(32:53):
and you know so I would say thatthat really helped me and to
guide me over the years.
And I'm going to give a shoutout always to Dr Lauren
Silverberg, who saw something inme and was my biggest
cheerleader, pushing me andtelling me to you know, get out
of my comfort zone, liaise withpeople who were not like me.
(33:15):
I, you know, I have friends inall the communities.
I would say, you know, itdoesn't matter my specialists,
that I really form acollaboration with all over the
world.
They're white, they're blackfrom all everywhere.
All over the world, they arewhite, they are black from
everywhere all over the MiddleEast, everywhere and it allows
you to get into differentcommunities.
I have to shout out to Dr DaisyO'Parl, a radiologist, who I
(33:37):
work with.
So it's very, very rewarding forme to be able to use what I'm
learning from other peopleseeing what other people are
doing, what is it that isworking for them and learn from
them.
You don't have to be jealousabout anyone you know and I
think that's what holds back alot of people Envy and jealousy
(33:59):
blocks your you know yourrewards.
When you see someone who issuccessful, what I want to do is
this person is doing well, thisgroup is doing well, this
hospital is doing well.
What are they doing to do well?
That's all that comes to me.
How can I use their lesson toimprove on me?
What is it that I can learnfrom them?
(34:29):
So I usually will gravitatetowards people who are positive,
people who see you know what Iwant to do, who I see I can look
up to, and my whole thing isabout learning.
So I want to learn from them.
How is it that you made adifference in your community?
How is it that you made adifference in your practice?
How are you surviving?
That's what I ask them first,and learning from them teaches
me to use those lessons to seehow I can use that to implement
whatever I have to do for mybusiness.
(34:51):
So that's, that's really how Istarted with my business,
growing my business and learningfrom there.
And also I've had setbacks.
You know medicine in the UnitedStates.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
Talk to us a bit sorry I was going to say talk to
us a bit about setbacks you'vehad or challenges and how you've
navigated that.
You don't even have to go intotoo much detail, but just you
know, kind of give us a flairfor what, how challenging it has
been and how you, you know whathelped you, whether it's
(35:27):
mentally, whether it's peoplearound you to get through that.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
So medicine in the US , you know, you get very good
clinical training, but you neverget training about the business
of medicine.
And one of the things I didn'tknow at the time was that
anything that is done in youroffice, even if it's done by a
contracted entity, actuallycomes back to you.
(35:56):
You know, and nobody's toldthat we don't learn what they
call billing and coding.
We don't, we basically contractit out.
We don't have classes, we arenot trained in that.
You only learn that when you gointo practice.
You know, and then you'retaught here and there.
You know one class here, oneclass there.
It's not really a comprehensivetraining on that and that is so
(36:19):
, so important.
So the what I learned, you know, I learned by myself, you know
through self-help books, youknow looking at.
You know working with differentbilling companies and so on,
and I had challenges where abilling company actually came in
and was billing wrongly, youknow, and of course this was a
(36:40):
contracted entity, and whatended up happening was I ended
up having to be the one to bearthe brunt of it, you know, to be
the one who had to refund moneybecause they did something that
was wrong, they used the wrongcoding.
But what did I do with that?
You know, it was a verydifficult time.
It taught me a lot.
I spoke with my father and hesaid to me NJ, when you have
(37:04):
this challenge, what do you do?
You have two ways to look atchallenges, or what you call
failures.
Now you can learn from it oryou can recall back and be
defeated by it.
And I think a lot of times,when people face challenges in
their life, the first thing youwant to do is to retreat, you
(37:25):
know.
But no, what you need to do issay this happened and what can I
learn from this and how can Inavigate this to make things
better?
And it was so important for mebecause, guess what, my son was
a physician and I needed to knowmore.
So what I did was enroll inCornell, at the Johnson School,
(37:48):
to do an MBA so I could learnmore about the business of
medicine, and then in themedical school in New York to
learn about health policy.
What are those drivers that wehave here that I can learn from?
And how can we influence it?
At physicians?
Because you can be a doctor,you can get all these degrees,
(38:09):
but how do you get politiciansand policymakers to change, to
actually see that what thosepolicies, or to implement
policies that help you as apracticing physician and help
your patients.
And so that's why I went tobusiness school and then, as I
did that and explored that, Isaid you know, this is not
(38:31):
something that I need to usejust for the United States.
I need to use this global.
So that's why I enrolled in theHarvard program and completed
the certificate in global healthas a global health leader and
learning from so many wonderfuland talented individuals, and I
will tell you that this reallyhelped me.
(38:52):
You know so you need to look atfailure.
For me, what it taught me iswhenever you have a challenge,
you know so you need to look atfailure.
For me, what it taught me iswhenever you have a challenge or
failure, whatever you want tocall it you want to look at that
and use that to actuallycatapult yourself, as we say in
Nigeria, to something evenbetter.
How do you use what hashappened to you for the greater
good?
(39:12):
You know, um, and so there's somany physicians who have gone
through challenges in theirpractice and the first thing
they do is you know they don'twant to practice medicine and so
on.
But no, you know, you havespent so many years doing this.
When you have a challenge, donot recall back.
Look at what you have learnedfrom that challenge, you know,
(39:34):
and see how you can use that toimprove and improve in what you
do.
And I learned so much aboutdifferent companies in the
business school that failed andactually risen and done better.
You learn a lot.
It was so much, so good to beback in an academic setting to
learn from other individuals.
(39:56):
My classmates all of them atCornell were wonderful in
helping me navigate.
You know the business, you knowbusiness world and to see
really taught me about how youcan make a difference in your
community, how you can use theknowledge that you have to
improve the practicing life ofphysicians.
So I'm so.
(40:16):
You know you hear a lot aboutphysician burnout and so on.
I love what I do and I wantother physicians who are there
to also love their specialty.
So how can we improve thepractice climate of doctors?
How do we get other physiciansto love what they do and they're
not moving to other occupations?
And they're not moving to otheroccupations is by making sure
that when they practice, thatthey feel valued, that they feel
(40:39):
included, that they feel, youknow, that their work situation
does not cost them what they nowcall burnout.
You know, making sure that theyget paid for the work that they
do, you know.
So it's for me.
It's really got me into digitaltechnology and trying to see
how we could use technology toimprove practice.
(40:59):
You know the practice patternsand workflows for physicians,
because that's really whatreally bothers us.
We have to go back home andchart, you know, and spend hours
instead of hanging out with ourspouses and children and
friends and family.
We're doing work at home.
So what can we do to improve,you know, the practicing life of
(41:20):
physicians, whether it's afront office work and back
office work.
And I talked before about using,you know, digital or, I'm sorry
, virtual receptionists, but youcould reuse technology to for
scribing.
You know, using AI.
Ai has been so helpful inhelping, you know, us reconnect
with patients, because whenyou're on the computer typing
(41:42):
what a patient is saying, you'renot really engaging that
patient.
The patient is.
It's as if you're more engagedwith the computer.
You know you're doing what youhave to do to show that the
patient came in, but patientsdon't really value that.
I'm working with immigrants andminority.
You really need to be there,you have to be.
They have to feel you, yourpresence.
So AI has been so helpful,using AI scribing, you know.
(42:06):
So you have your AI on when I,when I'm seeing patients and I'm
talking to them, and it's ableto actually recreate the whole
visit for me and you know, I'mold now, you know, so typing is
not my, you know, my, you know.
This really helps me type upthe whole visit.
It captures everything.
So for me, you know, I thinkthat doctors should embrace you
(42:31):
know technology and use it toaugment the work that they do,
and this is really what I'vereally gotten involved with.
So I'm really working at theintersection of health
technology as well as medicine,advising some startups on what
they can do, what they'rebringing to you know, creations
(42:58):
and innovations that can helpphysicians in their practice.
You know, and it's nice to beable to be a consultant to these
startups, because I believethat it's only when you have a
practicing physician who isactually doing the work that you
can actually have them doinnovations that really matter,
(43:20):
that really move the needle inthe right direction.
There are a lot of innovationsthat are coming out in
technology and health technology, but a lot of times they don't
really meet the needs of thepeople who are using them.
So being a physician who canadvise these startups in what
they're doing has been veryrewarding to me, because I know
(43:40):
that with what I'm doing, youknow, and the work that I'm
providing for them, the advice,you know, the consultation, the
end product will be somethingthat is definitely will be more
useful to other physicians intheir places of work and as and
help their workflow, um, whetherthey're in the hospital system
(44:03):
or our patient.
So it's, it's really been umamazing.
You know I'm not a digitaltechnology.
You know, uh, lover, I lovetechnology.
I see that passion.
You know what?
How can we digitize this?
Everything is you know, how canwe create something to make it
better?
And and I think it's also anice, because with technology,
(44:26):
you can immediately see whatimpact you're making, you can
quantify it is very measurablecan use the data you have to
actually, you know, show whetheryou're trying to get a line of
credit or you're trying to getmore grants or whatever to do
your work, to show the impact ofwhat you're doing and manage
(44:52):
you know especially AI and makesure that you know, communities
that we serve.
You know that whatever is beingdone is addressed, you know, but
for the overall, I think thattechnology in medicine has been,
you know, really, reallyrevolutionary in trying to help
us improve practice and alsohelp us with improving access
(45:20):
access to care.
Now you can do telemedicine aspatients in Nigeria and Ghana or
Liberia and help thosephysicians manage those patients
where we know that we have ashortage of physicians and
providers all over the continent.
With technology, we are able tomake an impact and help save
(45:42):
lives of people who are on thecontinent with actually being
there.
So you don't have to do amedical mission to be able to
help a physician group, whetherit's in Liberia or in Sierra
Leone or Ghana or Nigeria, tochange and improve the work that
they're doing to help patientsthere.
So, and to actually be anadvisor.
(46:03):
You can do this, you know, inreal time, and so it's very
rewarding to me.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Wow, and Jay, that's you know.
You've really touched on somuch and I think listening to
you is just so inspiring.
I want to ask you a question.
I know we're almost coming ontoday.
I want to ask you a questionabout using AI during
consultation, especially withminority groups.
Have you found any form ofresistance?
(46:30):
Do they hesitate?
Do they get concerned that youhave AI recording what they're
saying?
How has that been?
Speaker 1 (46:40):
I mean, actually it's been embraced, because I think,
first of all, you really haveto let them know what it is.
People get very worried whenthey think that you know they're
being recorded or you're usingtechnology to record them.
But it's in, really, you knowthey're being recorded or you're
using technology to record them, but it's in, really, you know,
explaining what you're doing.
(47:00):
So we start off by you know,really informing the patients
about what we're doing.
And, you know, once they see itand once the note is done, I
can show it to them, they canread it.
They are just amazed, you know,because it allows, they see
that it allows me to actually bemore present during the office
visit.
So, you know, I know that a lotof minority patients, you know,
(47:25):
have reservations when it comesto technology and AI and so on.
But, honestly, it's in how youexplain it to the patient, how
is this going to bring value tothat patient interaction during
that?
And they can see, because Ihave it on and I'm just, you
know, talking to them, you know,chatting to them, you know, and
(47:46):
getting their history and it's,you know, it's been very
helpful.
At the end of the visit, theycan see what the end result is
they can look at the encounterand see whether there's anything
they want to add to it orremove from it, and so it's just
being transparent.
I think when you're not, that'swhere it creates a problem, you
know so.
(48:06):
It's been embracedwholeheartedly by our patient
population.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that, because I
think the point you raise aboutspeaking to them, communication
is so important.
I always say, when youcommunicate, the emotional brain
calms down.
So even if they were worriedbefore, it just calms them down
and then they're able to reallytalk.
They're able to really insteadof being worried about oh, what
(48:36):
are you recording, what am Igoing to say, what I need to be
careful, what I'm saying.
That way they're not actuallytelling you exactly what, why
they've come, and you as wellcannot be present and listening
to them.
And I think it's just fantasticthat you shared that.
But that key point ofcommunicate with them just
(48:58):
communication is so powerful andyou see, there's just so much.
You touched on that.
I just love the challenge youwent through, but how you dealt
with it, how you deal with thosechallenges, is just incredible
and it's a lesson for everyonelistening that when challenges
come, what do you do?
(49:19):
Do you freeze, do you run away,or do you stop and process it
and learn from it and moveforward?
And what you did is justincredible.
You decided to actually go outand learn and equip yourself,
empower yourself and come backand then gave birth to Summit
(49:40):
Medical Group, which is justincredible.
So honestly, NJ, it's just.
It's a pleasure really chattingwith you and I want to touch on
two things before we finish.
You talked about a mentor.
You talked about a mentor and Ithink my question is did you,
(50:01):
did the mentor come to you?
Did he see something in you?
Or were you the one thatactually reached out to him to
mentor you?
How did that?
How did that start?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
so he um my mentor was a professor in my program
during my residency and duringthat time we formed, you know, I
was very interested in learningabout outpatient practice and
what we could do and I saw thatthe way he was teaching me and
the things he taught us asresidents was something that I
(50:29):
really wanted to emulate.
So I reached out to him and Isaid to him I would like to
learn from you.
You are someone who you knowembodies the kind of doctor I
would like to be and he was soJust you know, and we developed
a relationship over the yearswhere he led me and helped me
actually start my practice andbuild my practice.
(50:51):
So you have to reach out.
You have to look for someonewho inspires you, who, someone
(51:12):
who you know you want to be like, somebody who who really
creates those positive momentsin you and has a vision.
You know that that can that youreally want, you know to have.
Is there someone in your lifethat you can look up to to say I
want to be like this person andreach out to someone around you
(51:32):
and see whether they can mentoryou.
So I did reach out and it's beena wonderful relationship over
30 years and he's been by myside through every single thing
that I've done and introduced meto so many people, has been
very helpful, worked through theups and downs of business and
practice, and that's what peopleneed.
(51:54):
You need somebody who is anadvocate for you, who will be in
that room when you're not, whowill speak up and tell people
the kind of person you are.
And it doesn't have to besomeone who is from your town,
your village you know, this is awhite man that helped me, so it
(52:15):
can be anyone.
Someone who embodies who youwould like to be, like, so, and
someone who inspires.
So I mean, that's how I met DrSilverberg.
Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, no, that's amazing.
You were proactive, you reachedout to him, and I ask that
question because a lot of times,people sit back waiting for
someone to come to them orhesitating from doing something.
But you've got to be soproactive and reach out to
people and, like you said, itdoesn't have to be someone that
(52:48):
looks like you.
It could be anyone, someonethat has you know that you see
something and that can help you.
Thank you so much.
The other thing I want to talkabout probably the last thing
before we go is I want to saycongratulations.
Congratulations, because you area multiple award winner and
(53:09):
it's a lot, and a lot of it aswell, apart from the medical
side, is the philanthropic workyou do.
You do so much, you give somuch back.
Even listening to you in termsof the digital work you're doing
in Nigeria and Africa isincredible how you really bring
(53:31):
people up, train people, bringpeople up, and you've got an
award recently, because Iremember seeing it on LinkedIn
and it was the PhilanthropicAward from the Center for Social
Awareness, advocacy and Ethicsand it's you know.
I know from talking to you.
It's something to do withreally helping to empower people
(53:51):
in terms of leadership and alot.
But talk to us a bit about someof the philanthropy work you do
, because you do so much andit's just incredible and it just
goes to show.
You know, sometimes I'mlistening to you or watching you
and I'm going, where does sheget all this energy?
But the good thing about you isyou work hard and you play hard
(54:16):
.
You know, because you, yeah, goon yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, I think you have to have a balance right.
You know I work really hard,but I also take time out for
myself, you know, and my family.
I take time out for myself andmy family.
I love to travel, and so myselfand my family I love to travel,
and so I like seeing new places, visiting, relaxing, being with
family.
So there has to be a balance inyour life, otherwise you're
(54:45):
going to be burnt out, and youhave, you won't have anything to
give, so you have to retool.
So I certainly do that.
And one of the things that Ilove is really working with
nonprofits nonprofits thatembody my values, and the Center
for Social Awareness, advocacyand Ethics is an organization
run by Catholic priests and it's, you know, the founder is a
(55:08):
Catholic priest, father God'swill, he's Nigerian and
everything.
When he, when he talked aboutfounding this organization and
what he wanted to do, I was 100%behind him.
I'm like you got to do this, wehave to do this.
We have to help the youth inNigeria.
We have to do things to helpyoung people.
They are our future.
You know we're going to get oldsomeday, and so I've been
(55:30):
working with them over the years, you know, supporting them
financially and otherwise to toget to where they are today.
And also I had this anotherorganization near and dear to me
that was on their boardLuminous.
It works with immigrants in inthe Howard County area and
beyond.
And so you know, I do a lot ofwork with nonprofit
organizations that really embodywhat my values are and try and
(55:53):
support them that really embodywhat my values are and try and
support them.
And I always tell people, youknow, supporting an organization
is not just about money, it'salso about you can give of your
time, right Advice, you can givethem connections.
You can help in so manydifferent ways.
It's not just, oh, I don't wantto help because they're going
to ask me for money.
There's so many things you cando, you know, to help
(56:16):
organizations that really bringin value to improving the world
that we live in.
So, yeah, so that's.
I don't even see it as work.
You know it's so nice to beable to, you know, help these
organizations survive and thriveso that they can continue the
work that they do, because itreally helps us.
(56:39):
You know.
It helps us globally, helps us,you know, wherever we are, when
you have nonprofits that aredoing things that are necessary
to make life better for us ascitizens of the world.
So I just look out for thosekinds of organizations and I try
to support them as best that Ican, as I can.
So, yeah, that's.
That's really what my life,lives, work and what I do on the
(57:02):
side.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah, nj, you're an incredible, incredible woman,
incredible friend, incrediblesister.
I'm so honored and thank you somuch for taking time out to
come and spend this time talkingto me, because it really it
wasn't long.
I asked you to do this and yousaid, yes, I'm in.
(57:25):
Thank you so much.
I really do appreciate it.
One thing that I'm just goingto say again, something you said
that I think I want tore-emphasize for everyone
listening is that concept ofdifferentiate.
When I asked NJ about whatreally drives her, how did she
(57:46):
what?
How did she get to where?
You know where she is today,how did she manage the
challenges?
And one of the things she saidis differentiate, differentiate,
do something other people arenot doing, you know.
Look for.
You know.
Differentiate yourself, dosomething different, look for
those things you know, look forwhere there's a need and create
(58:08):
the solution.
Thank you so, so much.
And you've really shown thatthroughout your life.
So so much.
And you've really shown thatthroughout your life, and it's
so.
I think your life is a goodexample of the importance of
what parents sow into children'slives.
You know, because when you sowthat, it then comes out, and I'm
so honored to really to knowyou and for you to come on to
(58:32):
this program, and I'll saycongratulations once again for
the awards and for what you'redoing.
Can you now just end thispodcast by just leaving one
great, you know, word or advice,of wisdom for our listeners?
You have given us so much, butjust the last one that we will
take away with us.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
For everyone listening, I willsay you know that you have only
one life to live.
Make a difference.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
Make a difference.
That's a good one to end it,thank you.
Thank you so much, nj.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you.
Yes, and listeners, remember,please subscribe to this podcast
and share, share, share.
Njidia has left so much with ustoday.
(59:24):
She's really opened herself upand given us so much nuggets, so
I look forward to seeing youall in the you know, catching up
again and be with you in ournext episode.
Thank you for listening.
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