July 31, 2024 • 28 mins
What if overcoming a turbulent childhood could set you on a path to becoming a beacon of hope for others? John Westbrook, whose 44-year career in business growth and development is matched only by his remarkable personal journey, opens up about his early life in a dysfunctional and abusive household, revealing how he grappled with being a "poser" and performance addict, constantly in search of validation. Hear about the pivotal moments that helped him overcome these struggles and find his genuine self, including a life-changing volunteer stint in the Solomon Islands. His insights into stability, positivity, and teamwork offer a roadmap for anyone looking to excel both professionally and personally.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast.
We are a community of leaderswith a network in over 350
cities around the world,dedicated to optimizing our
personal, professional andspiritual lives to have lasting
impact.
This show is where we have achance to listen and engage with
leaders who are living this out.
We love talking with leaders,so if you have any questions,
comments or suggestions to makethe show even better, please let
(00:28):
us know.
The best way to stay connectedin Canada is through our
newsletter at leaderimpact.
ca or on social at Leader Impact.
If you're listening fromoutside of Canada, check out our
website at leaderimpact.
com.
I'm your host, Lisa Peters, andour guest today is John
Westbrook.
John has spent his entirecareer growing businesses.
In his 44-year career, he hasworked for the Business
(00:50):
Development Bank.
He was a principal with themanagement consulting practice
of KPMG, vice president of salesand marketing with Dollco, one
of Canada's largest printers,and spent 24 years as vice
president of client serviceswith Acart Communications, a
preeminent social marketingadvertising agency.
John also invests in hiscommunity through his
involvement on the boards ofseveral organizations and is
(01:12):
currently a volunteer directorwith Whitestone, a ministry
serving ex-offenders who havereturned to the community.
He lives in Ottawa with hiswife, Sharon.
Welcome to the show, John.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I'm fine, Great to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Lisa, it is great to finally meet you.
I've heard lots about you andexcited to have you on the show,
so thank you for joining us.
That's quite the bio and I knowI've read a little bit more
about you.
There's a lot more companiesand some really great marketing
and communications, and I knowthere's more.
So I'm wondering if you canstart with a little bit of your
(01:48):
professional journey and how yougot to where you are today.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay, I was born in kind of a dysfunctional some
would say abusive household.
I dropped out of high schoollike I didn't finish high school
, worked in as a house painterfor a couple of years and then I
realized I need to go touniversity.
I did that.
I earned two degrees.
(02:12):
I started with the businessdevelopment bank and there I
realized that the dysfunctionfrom my house, you know, had an
impact on me.
I was a poser and a bit of aperformance addict.
While I was with a bank I wouldwork all night long writing a
(02:32):
credit app just so I could getan attaboy from my boss.
I'd never heard a responsiblemale tell me anything positive
or nice, so I was feeding onthat.
After the two years at the bank,I went overseas and lived in
the Solomon Islands as avolunteer with CUSO for three
(02:54):
years.
I came back.
I worked for KPMG for 11 years,started at the junior level,
ended up as a principal, whichis a non it's a partner, but a
junior partner or a non-equitypartner.
From there I went into puresales for the printer, and that
was great.
(03:15):
And then, from then, 24 yearsat Acart Communications.
I think for the first part ofmy life, my childhood, this
dysfunctional family caused meto be wanting to be a poser,
wanting to perform, wanting tostrive when I didn't need to,
(03:36):
and that kind of marked thefirst half of my career.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Wow, you know, I think, well, I don't know, I
feel like I can resonate with abit of the poser and the
performance addict and I thinkof now, you know, here we are
doing a podcast and then I goout and I promote, promote,
promote and I'm just like Iperform, like I literally
perform.
And I think of when I was youngand had my babies and I went
(04:06):
back to work early because Ijust I had to, because I mean
you can't forget about me, and Ijust I was looking for that at
a girl.
Good for you.
And I don't know if anyonereally cared, like, as you said,
that I'm like you know all thatwork I did.
Does anyone really remember me?
Or you know?
And I wonder if people arefeeling that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah you, I was doing that to create a counterfeit me
like a poser.
You know I'll get people tolike me or I'll get people to.
I will do all of this proposaland work all weekend just to be
liked and I.
It's really dysfunctional.
It's kind of counterfeit.
It took me many years to figurethat out, but towards the end
(04:51):
of my career I figured that out,thankfully.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So I'm going to ask you another question, but are
you going to dive into that alittle bit like how you got over
that?
Because I, I mean, I don't wantto, I know because that is so.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Go ahead with your question.
I will answer that.
Go ahead with your, okay, allright.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So we always talk about pivotal moments on our
podcast because those are justreally important moments in our
life.
So I'm wondering if you canshare a couple snapshot of those
pivotal moments along yourjourney.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, I think for me a pivotal moment was going to
the Solomon Islands as avolunteer.
For three years I went withCUSO and I went.
I was making like one quarterof the salary that I would have
at the business development bank, but I realized I was going to
(05:43):
the beach every day.
I was happy, everyone on theisland was happy Like it was it
was.
I realized there is another wayto live your life and people
without any of these materialgoods are amazingly happy.
So that that was a a goodpivotal moment.
(06:04):
And then, I guess, another onefor me.
You know I worked four years forDollco Printing and when I
started the sales were around$14 million.
I grew that to like $28 million.
We had $5 million on the bottomline.
We were voted one of the bestperforming companies in Canada
(06:28):
privately owned companies in thetop 50.
And I got fired and it was aneye opener for me.
I was sitting as if I owned theworld, but my boss had another
vision and had another personthat could see the business
growing from 30 to 60 millionand that was a very humbling
(06:53):
experience for me and it was avery good experience for me.
And you know what my boss, andthis new guy that he hired grew
the business from 30 to 60million, so it was eye-opening
for me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I was very hurt very humiliated, very humbled.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was like whacked on the side of the head and had to
scramble to get a new job.
But it was good for me.
It was in the big picture ofthings, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
We've talked about it .
Yeah, I thought I was a hero.
You know, know, I'm the guy andI wasn't the guy so that was
the thing, yeah, when you're init it is so hard and you don't
see the other side.
Right, you're living in, I justgot fired.
I you know this, the sadness ofit.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
The shock.
Actually that's great, butthings did turn out.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, I find it interesting.
So when you went away tovolunteer for two years and the
salary is a quarter, as you said, and you found yourself at your
most happiest moment and thepeople there were happy, yet you
came back.
You came back to the corporateworld.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I know I felt I was missing out, not having a
real job.
I had a real job.
I was like assistant provincialplanner and budget director For
where I was living.
I had a senior role.
I had a driver and a car and Icould order a helicopter to go
(08:33):
and visit a hydro project orwhatever.
But yeah, I felt I was missingout on the career.
But, I you know I had lots offriends that stayed and made a
career in internationaldevelopment and they had very
good careers.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, I think I'm glad you said just that missing
out because I think a lot ofpeople have that, you know, fomo
, the fear of missing out.
Like what am I missing out on?
I should be wheeling anddealing and corporate jets and
you know, or whatever.
Whatever yours is, it's not allthat.
But yeah, we, that is real, thefear of missing out.
It is a real.
(09:12):
So I thought I just felt it, oryou know, but so I'm glad you
said it.
Yeah, we talk a little bitabout their best principles of
success and I'm wondering if you, if you can share yours and if
you have a story thatillustrates that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, I would say maybe two things.
The first one would beendurance.
Like my marketplace career was44 years.
Now I'm on my second careerdoing ministry and it's like
four years.
But I would say endurance isone.
And like last year, my wife andI walked the Via Francincina,
(09:50):
which is a Roman road that goesfrom Canterbury, england, to
Rome, and like we didn't walkthe whole thing, we walk
sections of it, it's apilgrimage.
But you know, some days arerainy and some days you get
scraped and fall down and bleed,and some days are sunshine and
some days are magnificent, thatare just breathtaking.
(10:14):
And I think a career is all ofthose things it's.
So, you know, endurance andmaybe the toughest years are not
the years in the valley or onthe mountaintop, they're just
days where you go to work andyou work and nothing spectacular
(10:35):
happens, but it comprises awhole career.
My second principle would bejust emotional intelligence.
You know, warren Buffett'ssidekick, charlie Munker, had
this expression that the singlemost important thing about
running a business is beingemotionally stable and
(10:59):
controlling your emotions whenthings go bad.
So just emotional intelligenceis huge like showing up on time,
being positive, askingquestions of authorities in the
right way, enjoying the successof other people, being a good
team player, being someone who'shard to offend, like all of
(11:23):
these things that you knowcomprise emotional intelligence,
just being steady and pleasantand a great team player.
So those would be my keysendurance and emotional
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, when you spoke of endurance and you talked
about you know, sometimes it isreally hard and you're going
through the hard times.
Maybe those are the timesyou're learning the most.
Our group is currently readingI think it's called Great to
Good, good to Great.
It's by Jim Collins.
It's the second book and wewere talking about the recipes
to success.
And as long as you have a goodrecipe right, you'll get through
(12:02):
the good times and the badtimes, because ultimately you
know, you know that you know theplan and the times are going to
be good and they're going to bebad, but if the recipe is good,
if the, if the, if the groundis good, it'll be okay.
So, obviously you had goodground.
You got through the hard times.
But yeah, I think we do learn alot more in those hard times.
(12:22):
And emotional intelligence.
I sometimes wonder, as I haveentered a different transition
of my life, if my emotions areall intact right now.
That's a great point.
I think we do.
You make some great pointsthere, so thank you for sharing
those.
So we talk a lot on the showabout failures, failings and
(12:45):
mistakes and I'm wondering ifyou have anything you can share.
We know that we learn more.
As you said, you know we learnmore in those trials.
Do you have one that you canshare?
A failure that you learned?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I do indeed.
You know I told you the storyof getting fired from DOLLCO and
I joined Acart Communicationsand you know, great new job,
great salary, great title, andwithin a couple of months there
(13:21):
were three big opportunitiescame our way.
One was with an existing client, a government department, one
was with a major shopping centerand one was with the Ottawa
Senators Hockey Club.
They were all due on the sameday and like, rather than you
know, you know, the best way tohave quality is to you know, or
(13:43):
you know, real quality is tolimit quantity.
I went for all three and I, youknow our firm came in second on
all three.
So we totally missed out, like,rather than investing in one or
two, and wow, that was sopainful, that was such a painful
lesson.
I was this new guy.
(14:04):
I was like this, you know,going to be the, the superhero.
I was pulling the all-nighters,that kind of thing, and we came
second and one, one of them,what.
We were already the incumbent.
So I lost the existing business.
So, but my boss was verygracious and he knew how
(14:27):
invested we were, and a fewyears later we went on to win
the Ottawa Senators Hockey Clubaccount and we've had that ever
since, I think.
Since I've left, I think theaccount is still there.
So, yeah, I think that's animportant lesson and it's really
, you know, it's aboutboundaries, like what's an
(14:49):
appropriate boundary, likemaking good decisions, not being
greedy, having focus all thesethings are so important.
Brokenness in me that you know,wanting to be a performance
addict, wanting to be thesuperhero, wanting to be loved,
I think that you know, led tothat mistake and that's was a
(15:14):
great learning moment.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I always reflect on when we do things
that didn't go the way and youknow I would ask you.
At the time it seemed right andso you know.
So if I asked you, did you havea team behind you?
Maybe you looked and went we'vegot some depth here, we could
handle this, and I know threefor three and they're all due on
(15:35):
the same day, yeah, that is alot, but I want to think that at
the time you kind of looked andwent.
We can do this Hindsight.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Definitely I had a great, yeah, like a great.
In an ad agency, there'susually a media team, there's a
creative team and then there's astrategy team and an account
team.
And, yeah, I can't, I can'tblame the team it was.
I can only play and I wasn't myboss.
My boss wasn't forcing me to gofor all three.
I can only like and I wasn't myboss.
My boss wasn't forcing me to gothrough all three, like.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
If I want to lay blame, it goes at my feet, all
right.
All right, we know that you'vebeen part of Leader Impact and
we grow personally,professionally and spiritually
for increasing impact, so I waswondering if you'd be willing to
share an example of how thespiritual makes a practical
difference in your life as aleader.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, you asked me about overcoming my performance
addiction and then, like halfwaythrough my career, well, into
being an adult I think it was my30s I became a Christian and
then it's a journey.
It's not, you don't becomeperfect overnight.
(16:52):
It's like that pilgrimage.
I went on through Italy.
It's a walk, and one of thethings I've learned is that let
God run your business, not you.
Is that let God run yourbusiness, not you?
And to be a person that ishumble, be a person that is
(17:15):
absolutely.
Integrity is everything.
Be a person who creates avision for your company and sets
the course, which is aspiritual principle.
Be a person that prays for thebusiness and prays for your
staff and prays for yoursuppliers.
(17:36):
Be that person, so humble,vision casting takes on a
servant leader who takes on thehardest parts of every job and
gives the and apportions workaccording to people's abilities.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And those would be the principles, but humility
would be up there yeah, um, youknow, if, if people stop
listening at let god run yourbusiness, um, I'm wondering if,
because they they're like, yeah,okay, but then you went on to
explain that you know everything.
You, you know we still workhard, we still have a bottom
(18:15):
line, right, and I wonder ifyou've ever you know those are
misconceptions from some peopleand I'm wondering if you've ever
had to defend, if you've everhad to.
You know, if, if you ever in aconversation and someone said,
really you're just going totrust this to God, and I don't
know, I just it depends howforward you are Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
There's a difference between being like, you know,
like performance is essentialand like I.
Hard work is essential, hustleis essential, being on time is
essential.
All of these things areimportant and you know, there's
(19:02):
no question, those things areextremely important.
But I think when I said likeGod, ridden your business, I
mean understand that, like I'm afallible human being that can
make mistakes, and if I'mpraying for insights and
(19:24):
supernatural abilities, thenthose come, those will come,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Good.
You are uniquely you, john.
So at Leader Impact, we areleaders who have a lasting
impact.
So, as you continue to movethrough your own journey, I'm
wondering if you have consideredwhat you want your faith legacy
to be when you leave this world.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
While I was at Acart the last 12 years I was also
board chair of Jericho Road.
It's an organization that takes, identifies schizophrenics that
are on the street, probablyusing street drugs, takes them
off the street, gets them to seea doctor you know a family
physician gets a referral to apsychiatrist, provides a home
for them and they do very welland we had, when I was there, we
had eight homes.
I'm going to a Jericho Roadevent two days from now, so it's
(20:26):
a great charity.
And then, when I retired andwere from the marketplace in
2020, I started a ministrycalled Whitestone.
We work with ex-offenders andex-addicts and we do five things
.
We find them a really good joband I'm not talking a minimum
wage job, I like to find them$80,000 jobs we connect them
(20:49):
with a church, with new friends,and we connect them with a
prayer partner, someone that wecall it a praying Monica, like
St Augustine had a mother Monicathat prayed for him for 17
years, so we have a personassigned to each of our guys and
then like a mentor.
(21:10):
So mentorship, prayer, newfriends, a great job and connect
them with the church.
It's been great.
We've worked with about 130 menand women and it's been lovely.
And I told you at the beginningthat I was born into an abusive
, dysfunctional home.
Just about every person I'vemet that's ever been to prison
(21:33):
was born into an abusive,dysfunctional home.
So these guys are these peopleare my brothers and my sisters.
I can totally relate and, um,you know, as you bring healing
to others, you know God bringshealing to you, so it's it's so
sweet, it's so sweet yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So how long have you had white, white stone?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, started in November uh, november 2020, the
month I retired from themarketplace and yeah, it's been
good.
We actually meet in the same adagency where I worked.
I was there last night, had theuse of the kitchen.
We've got three differentboardrooms there.
It's all.
(22:18):
We serve a meal and we do alittle study or help, and we
have a fantastic time.
You know one thing I would say,is that these men and women
leaving prison never, ever heardsomeone say I'm proud of you,
or they've never heard someonesay great job, or no one's no
(22:40):
one ever said oh, man, I loveyou, You're awesome.
And when these are people thathave committed serious criminal
offenses and when they hearthese things they turn into
small children they're just likethey melt.
They melt.
So it's amazing working withthem.
(23:01):
And, uh, I just had theprivilege of being with leader
impact in mexico.
Uh, on on the middle of april,we were in Ixtapa Mexico and I
brought one of our um programparticipants from whitestone
there.
His His name is Sam and youknow he was charged and
(23:24):
convicted with murder and, yeah,he was traveling with me to
Mexico and it was great.
And now he's a completely newperson, has a great job, goes to
a good church, he's connectedwith a group and just able to
(23:44):
participate in people's liveslike that.
It's so good for my own heart.
And so good for my own healingyeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I sometimes don't know if people understand what
volunteering can do for you.
It's almost selfish how good itis for you.
Right, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Totally.
There's a little.
There's a little section in theBible.
I think it's Isaiah 58.
It says when you bring healingto others, god brings healing to
you.
And it is so sweet.
Like we have a Tuesday nightmeeting with a meal and time
together, and like I'm, I gethome.
(24:28):
I got home last night at 10 andit's just sweet, sweet, sweet
time.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, beautiful, Wow.
Thank you for sharing that.
That was good, and my finalquestion for you is what brings
you the greatest joy?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I think it's.
You know we are commanded tolove.
You know the Bible says inMatthew 22,.
You know, love the Lord, thyGod, with all your heart and
your soul and your mind and yourstrength, and then love your
neighbor as yourself.
So we're told to love otherpeople and then, three chapters
later, we're told to love theleast, the last and the lost.
(25:07):
So I get to do all these thingswith Whitestone, so loving on
the unlovable it is pure joy.
You know, our ex-offenders tendto be in three groups.
They're either like a sexualoffender a group of those.
They're either an addict thatneeded to commit crimes to
(25:28):
support their addiction, orthey're a violent offender who,
you know, didn't have anycontrols when they were young,
and usually the violence iscommitted within the family all
terrible crimes, you know I Iappreciate that.
But they um, giving them loveand seeing them turned around
(25:50):
and, uh, seeing how they canbecome new people, it is so, so
sweet.
And seeing how they give back,it's just a beautiful experience
for me.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, wow, that's a great answer.
I haven't heard that one on theGreatest Joy.
That is really good.
Thank you for sharing, john.
That brings us to the end ofthe podcast, but I would like to
know, if anyone wants to findyou or find Whitestone, what is
the best way to connect with you?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
If you want to find Whitestone, it's
whitestonecanada.
ca Whitestonecanada.
ca and find me.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
You can also track me down byscrolling to the bottom of the
website as well and sending aline of email.
Lisa, thank you, it's been aprivilege to be on this podcast
(26:50):
and thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Oh, thank you.
I love being here, I lovehearing the stories.
It just makes my faith a littlebit stronger every day.
So thank you for everything youdo and sharing today.
It's been a wonderful last 30minutes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
All right, thanks, lisa.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
All right.
Well, this ends our podcast,and if you're part of Leader
Impact, you can always discussor share this podcast with your
group.
And if you are not yet part ofLeader Impact and would like to
find out more and grow yourleadership, find our podcast
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You'll also find on our webpagechapter one of Braden Douglas's
(27:30):
book Becoming a Leader ofImpact.
You can also check out groupsavailable in Canada at
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(27:51):
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Thank you for engaging with usand remember impact starts with
you.
Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast.
We are a community of leaderswith a network in over 350
cities around the world,dedicated to optimizing our
personal, professional andspiritual lives to have lasting
impact.
This show is where we have achance to listen and engage with
leaders who are living this out.
We love talking with leaders,so if you have any questions,
comments or suggestions to makethe show even better, please let
(00:28):
us know.
The best way to stay connectedin Canada is through our
newsletter at leaderimpact.
ca or on social at Leader Impact.
If you're listening fromoutside of Canada, check out our
website at leaderimpact.
com.
I'm your host, Lisa Peters, andour guest today is John
Westbrook.
John has spent his entirecareer growing businesses.
In his 44-year career, he hasworked for the Business
(00:50):
Development Bank.
He was a principal with themanagement consulting practice
of KPMG, vice president of salesand marketing with Dollco, one
of Canada's largest printers,and spent 24 years as vice
president of client serviceswith Acart Communications, a
preeminent social marketingadvertising agency.
John also invests in hiscommunity through his
involvement on the boards ofseveral organizations and is
(01:12):
currently a volunteer directorwith Whitestone, a ministry
serving ex-offenders who havereturned to the community.
He lives in Ottawa with hiswife, Sharon.
Welcome to the show, John.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I'm fine, Great to be here with you.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Lisa, it is great to finally meet you.
I've heard lots about you andexcited to have you on the show,
so thank you for joining us.
That's quite the bio and I knowI've read a little bit more
about you.
There's a lot more companiesand some really great marketing
and communications, and I knowthere's more.
So I'm wondering if you canstart with a little bit of your
(01:48):
professional journey and how yougot to where you are today.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Okay, I was born in kind of a dysfunctional some
would say abusive household.
I dropped out of high schoollike I didn't finish high school
, worked in as a house painterfor a couple of years and then I
realized I need to go touniversity.
I did that.
I earned two degrees.
(02:12):
I started with the businessdevelopment bank and there I
realized that the dysfunctionfrom my house, you know, had an
impact on me.
I was a poser and a bit of aperformance addict.
While I was with a bank I wouldwork all night long writing a
(02:32):
credit app just so I could getan attaboy from my boss.
I'd never heard a responsiblemale tell me anything positive
or nice, so I was feeding onthat.
After the two years at the bank,I went overseas and lived in
the Solomon Islands as avolunteer with CUSO for three
(02:54):
years.
I came back.
I worked for KPMG for 11 years,started at the junior level,
ended up as a principal, whichis a non it's a partner, but a
junior partner or a non-equitypartner.
From there I went into puresales for the printer, and that
was great.
(03:15):
And then, from then, 24 yearsat Acart Communications.
I think for the first part ofmy life, my childhood, this
dysfunctional family caused meto be wanting to be a poser,
wanting to perform, wanting tostrive when I didn't need to,
(03:36):
and that kind of marked thefirst half of my career.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Wow, you know, I think, well, I don't know, I
feel like I can resonate with abit of the poser and the
performance addict and I thinkof now, you know, here we are
doing a podcast and then I goout and I promote, promote,
promote and I'm just like Iperform, like I literally
perform.
And I think of when I was youngand had my babies and I went
(04:06):
back to work early because Ijust I had to, because I mean
you can't forget about me, and Ijust I was looking for that at
a girl.
Good for you.
And I don't know if anyonereally cared, like, as you said,
that I'm like you know all thatwork I did.
Does anyone really remember me?
Or you know?
And I wonder if people arefeeling that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yeah you, I was doing that to create a counterfeit me
like a poser.
You know I'll get people tolike me or I'll get people to.
I will do all of this proposaland work all weekend just to be
liked and I.
It's really dysfunctional.
It's kind of counterfeit.
It took me many years to figurethat out, but towards the end
(04:51):
of my career I figured that out,thankfully.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So I'm going to ask you another question, but are
you going to dive into that alittle bit like how you got over
that?
Because I, I mean, I don't wantto, I know because that is so.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Go ahead with your question.
I will answer that.
Go ahead with your, okay, allright.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So we always talk about pivotal moments on our
podcast because those are justreally important moments in our
life.
So I'm wondering if you canshare a couple snapshot of those
pivotal moments along yourjourney.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, I think for me a pivotal moment was going to
the Solomon Islands as avolunteer.
For three years I went withCUSO and I went.
I was making like one quarterof the salary that I would have
at the business development bank, but I realized I was going to
(05:43):
the beach every day.
I was happy, everyone on theisland was happy Like it was it
was.
I realized there is another wayto live your life and people
without any of these materialgoods are amazingly happy.
So that that was a a goodpivotal moment.
(06:04):
And then, I guess, another onefor me.
You know I worked four years forDollco Printing and when I
started the sales were around$14 million.
I grew that to like $28 million.
We had $5 million on the bottomline.
We were voted one of the bestperforming companies in Canada
(06:28):
privately owned companies in thetop 50.
And I got fired and it was aneye opener for me.
I was sitting as if I owned theworld, but my boss had another
vision and had another personthat could see the business
growing from 30 to 60 millionand that was a very humbling
(06:53):
experience for me and it was avery good experience for me.
And you know what my boss, andthis new guy that he hired grew
the business from 30 to 60million, so it was eye-opening
for me.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I was very hurt very humiliated, very humbled.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was like whacked on the side of the head and had to
scramble to get a new job.
But it was good for me.
It was in the big picture ofthings, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
We've talked about it .
Yeah, I thought I was a hero.
You know, know, I'm the guy andI wasn't the guy so that was
the thing, yeah, when you're init it is so hard and you don't
see the other side.
Right, you're living in, I justgot fired.
I you know this, the sadness ofit.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
The shock.
Actually that's great, butthings did turn out.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Yeah, I find it interesting.
So when you went away tovolunteer for two years and the
salary is a quarter, as you said, and you found yourself at your
most happiest moment and thepeople there were happy, yet you
came back.
You came back to the corporateworld.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Yeah, I know I felt I was missing out, not having a
real job.
I had a real job.
I was like assistant provincialplanner and budget director For
where I was living.
I had a senior role.
I had a driver and a car and Icould order a helicopter to go
(08:33):
and visit a hydro project orwhatever.
But yeah, I felt I was missingout on the career.
But, I you know I had lots offriends that stayed and made a
career in internationaldevelopment and they had very
good careers.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, I think I'm glad you said just that missing
out because I think a lot ofpeople have that, you know, fomo
, the fear of missing out.
Like what am I missing out on?
I should be wheeling anddealing and corporate jets and
you know, or whatever.
Whatever yours is, it's not allthat.
But yeah, we, that is real, thefear of missing out.
It is a real.
(09:12):
So I thought I just felt it, oryou know, but so I'm glad you
said it.
Yeah, we talk a little bitabout their best principles of
success and I'm wondering if you, if you can share yours and if
you have a story thatillustrates that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, I would say maybe two things.
The first one would beendurance.
Like my marketplace career was44 years.
Now I'm on my second careerdoing ministry and it's like
four years.
But I would say endurance isone.
And like last year, my wife andI walked the Via Francincina,
(09:50):
which is a Roman road that goesfrom Canterbury, england, to
Rome, and like we didn't walkthe whole thing, we walk
sections of it, it's apilgrimage.
But you know, some days arerainy and some days you get
scraped and fall down and bleed,and some days are sunshine and
some days are magnificent, thatare just breathtaking.
(10:14):
And I think a career is all ofthose things it's.
So, you know, endurance andmaybe the toughest years are not
the years in the valley or onthe mountaintop, they're just
days where you go to work andyou work and nothing spectacular
(10:35):
happens, but it comprises awhole career.
My second principle would bejust emotional intelligence.
You know, warren Buffett'ssidekick, charlie Munker, had
this expression that the singlemost important thing about
running a business is beingemotionally stable and
(10:59):
controlling your emotions whenthings go bad.
So just emotional intelligenceis huge like showing up on time,
being positive, askingquestions of authorities in the
right way, enjoying the successof other people, being a good
team player, being someone who'shard to offend, like all of
(11:23):
these things that you knowcomprise emotional intelligence,
just being steady and pleasantand a great team player.
So those would be my keysendurance and emotional
intelligence.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, when you spoke of endurance and you talked
about you know, sometimes it isreally hard and you're going
through the hard times.
Maybe those are the timesyou're learning the most.
Our group is currently readingI think it's called Great to
Good, good to Great.
It's by Jim Collins.
It's the second book and wewere talking about the recipes
to success.
And as long as you have a goodrecipe right, you'll get through
(12:02):
the good times and the badtimes, because ultimately you
know, you know that you know theplan and the times are going to
be good and they're going to bebad, but if the recipe is good,
if the, if the, if the groundis good, it'll be okay.
So, obviously you had goodground.
You got through the hard times.
But yeah, I think we do learn alot more in those hard times.
(12:22):
And emotional intelligence.
I sometimes wonder, as I haveentered a different transition
of my life, if my emotions areall intact right now.
That's a great point.
I think we do.
You make some great pointsthere, so thank you for sharing
those.
So we talk a lot on the showabout failures, failings and
(12:45):
mistakes and I'm wondering ifyou have anything you can share.
We know that we learn more.
As you said, you know we learnmore in those trials.
Do you have one that you canshare?
A failure that you learned?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
I do indeed.
You know I told you the storyof getting fired from DOLLCO and
I joined Acart Communicationsand you know, great new job,
great salary, great title, andwithin a couple of months there
(13:21):
were three big opportunitiescame our way.
One was with an existing client, a government department, one
was with a major shopping centerand one was with the Ottawa
Senators Hockey Club.
They were all due on the sameday and like, rather than you
know, you know, the best way tohave quality is to you know, or
(13:43):
you know, real quality is tolimit quantity.
I went for all three and I, youknow our firm came in second on
all three.
So we totally missed out, like,rather than investing in one or
two, and wow, that was sopainful, that was such a painful
lesson.
I was this new guy.
(14:04):
I was like this, you know,going to be the, the superhero.
I was pulling the all-nighters,that kind of thing, and we came
second and one, one of them,what.
We were already the incumbent.
So I lost the existing business.
So, but my boss was verygracious and he knew how
(14:27):
invested we were, and a fewyears later we went on to win
the Ottawa Senators Hockey Clubaccount and we've had that ever
since, I think.
Since I've left, I think theaccount is still there.
So, yeah, I think that's animportant lesson and it's really
, you know, it's aboutboundaries, like what's an
(14:49):
appropriate boundary, likemaking good decisions, not being
greedy, having focus all thesethings are so important.
Brokenness in me that you know,wanting to be a performance
addict, wanting to be thesuperhero, wanting to be loved,
I think that you know, led tothat mistake and that's was a
(15:14):
great learning moment.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I always reflect on when we do things
that didn't go the way and youknow I would ask you.
At the time it seemed right andso you know.
So if I asked you, did you havea team behind you?
Maybe you looked and went we'vegot some depth here, we could
handle this, and I know threefor three and they're all due on
(15:35):
the same day, yeah, that is alot, but I want to think that at
the time you kind of looked andwent.
We can do this Hindsight.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Definitely I had a great, yeah, like a great.
In an ad agency, there'susually a media team, there's a
creative team and then there's astrategy team and an account
team.
And, yeah, I can't, I can'tblame the team it was.
I can only play and I wasn't myboss.
My boss wasn't forcing me to gofor all three.
I can only like and I wasn't myboss.
My boss wasn't forcing me to gothrough all three, like.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
If I want to lay blame, it goes at my feet, all
right.
All right, we know that you'vebeen part of Leader Impact and
we grow personally,professionally and spiritually
for increasing impact, so I waswondering if you'd be willing to
share an example of how thespiritual makes a practical
difference in your life as aleader.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Yeah, you asked me about overcoming my performance
addiction and then, like halfwaythrough my career, well, into
being an adult I think it was my30s I became a Christian and
then it's a journey.
It's not, you don't becomeperfect overnight.
(16:52):
It's like that pilgrimage.
I went on through Italy.
It's a walk, and one of thethings I've learned is that let
God run your business, not you.
Is that let God run yourbusiness, not you?
And to be a person that ishumble, be a person that is
(17:15):
absolutely.
Integrity is everything.
Be a person who creates avision for your company and sets
the course, which is aspiritual principle.
Be a person that prays for thebusiness and prays for your
staff and prays for yoursuppliers.
(17:36):
Be that person, so humble,vision casting takes on a
servant leader who takes on thehardest parts of every job and
gives the and apportions workaccording to people's abilities.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And those would be the principles, but humility
would be up there yeah, um, youknow, if, if people stop
listening at let god run yourbusiness, um, I'm wondering if,
because they they're like, yeah,okay, but then you went on to
explain that you know everything.
You, you know we still workhard, we still have a bottom
(18:15):
line, right, and I wonder ifyou've ever you know those are
misconceptions from some peopleand I'm wondering if you've ever
had to defend, if you've everhad to.
You know, if, if you ever in aconversation and someone said,
really you're just going totrust this to God, and I don't
know, I just it depends howforward you are Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
There's a difference between being like, you know,
like performance is essentialand like I.
Hard work is essential, hustleis essential, being on time is
essential.
All of these things areimportant and you know, there's
(19:02):
no question, those things areextremely important.
But I think when I said likeGod, ridden your business, I
mean understand that, like I'm afallible human being that can
make mistakes, and if I'mpraying for insights and
(19:24):
supernatural abilities, thenthose come, those will come,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Good.
You are uniquely you, john.
So at Leader Impact, we areleaders who have a lasting
impact.
So, as you continue to movethrough your own journey, I'm
wondering if you have consideredwhat you want your faith legacy
to be when you leave this world.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
While I was at Acart the last 12 years I was also
board chair of Jericho Road.
It's an organization that takes, identifies schizophrenics that
are on the street, probablyusing street drugs, takes them
off the street, gets them to seea doctor you know a family
physician gets a referral to apsychiatrist, provides a home
for them and they do very welland we had, when I was there, we
had eight homes.
I'm going to a Jericho Roadevent two days from now, so it's
(20:26):
a great charity.
And then, when I retired andwere from the marketplace in
2020, I started a ministrycalled Whitestone.
We work with ex-offenders andex-addicts and we do five things
.
We find them a really good joband I'm not talking a minimum
wage job, I like to find them$80,000 jobs we connect them
(20:49):
with a church, with new friends,and we connect them with a
prayer partner, someone that wecall it a praying Monica, like
St Augustine had a mother Monicathat prayed for him for 17
years, so we have a personassigned to each of our guys and
then like a mentor.
(21:10):
So mentorship, prayer, newfriends, a great job and connect
them with the church.
It's been great.
We've worked with about 130 menand women and it's been lovely.
And I told you at the beginningthat I was born into an abusive
, dysfunctional home.
Just about every person I'vemet that's ever been to prison
(21:33):
was born into an abusive,dysfunctional home.
So these guys are these peopleare my brothers and my sisters.
I can totally relate and, um,you know, as you bring healing
to others, you know God bringshealing to you, so it's it's so
sweet, it's so sweet yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
So how long have you had white, white stone?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, started in November uh, november 2020, the
month I retired from themarketplace and yeah, it's been
good.
We actually meet in the same adagency where I worked.
I was there last night, had theuse of the kitchen.
We've got three differentboardrooms there.
It's all.
(22:18):
We serve a meal and we do alittle study or help, and we
have a fantastic time.
You know one thing I would say,is that these men and women
leaving prison never, ever heardsomeone say I'm proud of you,
or they've never heard someonesay great job, or no one's no
(22:40):
one ever said oh, man, I loveyou, You're awesome.
And when these are people thathave committed serious criminal
offenses and when they hearthese things they turn into
small children they're just likethey melt.
They melt.
So it's amazing working withthem.
(23:01):
And, uh, I just had theprivilege of being with leader
impact in mexico.
Uh, on on the middle of april,we were in Ixtapa Mexico and I
brought one of our um programparticipants from whitestone
there.
His His name is Sam and youknow he was charged and
(23:24):
convicted with murder and, yeah,he was traveling with me to
Mexico and it was great.
And now he's a completely newperson, has a great job, goes to
a good church, he's connectedwith a group and just able to
(23:44):
participate in people's liveslike that.
It's so good for my own heart.
And so good for my own healingyeah.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
I sometimes don't know if people understand what
volunteering can do for you.
It's almost selfish how good itis for you.
Right, totally.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Totally.
There's a little.
There's a little section in theBible.
I think it's Isaiah 58.
It says when you bring healingto others, god brings healing to
you.
And it is so sweet.
Like we have a Tuesday nightmeeting with a meal and time
together, and like I'm, I gethome.
(24:28):
I got home last night at 10 andit's just sweet, sweet, sweet
time.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, beautiful, Wow.
Thank you for sharing that.
That was good, and my finalquestion for you is what brings
you the greatest joy?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
I think it's.
You know we are commanded tolove.
You know the Bible says inMatthew 22,.
You know, love the Lord, thyGod, with all your heart and
your soul and your mind and yourstrength, and then love your
neighbor as yourself.
So we're told to love otherpeople and then, three chapters
later, we're told to love theleast, the last and the lost.
(25:07):
So I get to do all these thingswith Whitestone, so loving on
the unlovable it is pure joy.
You know, our ex-offenders tendto be in three groups.
They're either like a sexualoffender a group of those.
They're either an addict thatneeded to commit crimes to
(25:28):
support their addiction, orthey're a violent offender who,
you know, didn't have anycontrols when they were young,
and usually the violence iscommitted within the family all
terrible crimes, you know I Iappreciate that.
But they um, giving them loveand seeing them turned around
(25:50):
and, uh, seeing how they canbecome new people, it is so, so
sweet.
And seeing how they give back,it's just a beautiful experience
for me.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, wow, that's a great answer.
I haven't heard that one on theGreatest Joy.
That is really good.
Thank you for sharing, john.
That brings us to the end ofthe podcast, but I would like to
know, if anyone wants to findyou or find Whitestone, what is
the best way to connect with you?
Speaker 1 (26:25):
If you want to find Whitestone, it's
whitestonecanada.
ca Whitestonecanada.
ca and find me.
You can find me on LinkedIn.
You can also track me down byscrolling to the bottom of the
website as well and sending aline of email.
Lisa, thank you, it's been aprivilege to be on this podcast
(26:50):
and thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Oh, thank you.
I love being here, I lovehearing the stories.
It just makes my faith a littlebit stronger every day.
So thank you for everything youdo and sharing today.
It's been a wonderful last 30minutes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
All right, thanks, lisa.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
All right.
Well, this ends our podcast,and if you're part of Leader
Impact, you can always discussor share this podcast with your
group.
And if you are not yet part ofLeader Impact and would like to
find out more and grow yourleadership, find our podcast
page on our website atleaderimpactca and check out our
free leadership assessment.
You'll also find on our webpagechapter one of Braden Douglas's
(27:30):
book Becoming a Leader ofImpact.
You can also check out groupsavailable in Canada at
leaderimpactca or, if you'relistening from anywhere else in
the world, check outleaderimpactcom or get in touch
with us by email info@leaderimpact.
com and we will definitelyconnect you.
And if you like this podcast,please leave us a comment, give
us a rating or review.
(27:51):
This will help other globalleaders find our podcast.
Thank you for engaging with usand remember impact starts with
you.
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