August 14, 2024 • 27 mins
Ever wondered how a fascination with computers could evolve into a national training empire? Mark Peterson, the visionary entrepreneur behind Train Canada, shares his extraordinary journey from a high school tech enthusiast to a pioneering business leader. Mark takes us through his early days transitioning from a developer to a computer trainer in the mid-80s, and how he scaled his company to 13 locations across Canada.
We discuss the costly mistakes of early tech ventures during the dot-com bubble and the invaluable lessons they taught. We also explore how Christian values have shaped his approach to business, fostering loyalty and integrity among clients and employees.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast.
We are a community of leaderswith a network in over 350
cities around the world,dedicated to optimizing our
personal, professional andspiritual lives to have impact.
This show is where we have achance to listen and engage with
leaders who are living this out.
We love talking with leaders,so if you have any questions,
comments or suggestions to makethe show even better, please let
(00:27):
us know.
The best way to stay connectedin Canada is through our
newsletter at leaderimpact.
ca or on social media at LeaderImpact.
If you're listening fromoutside of Canada, check out our
website at leaderimpact.
com.
I'm your host, Lisa Peters, andour guest today is Mark Peterson
.
Mark is an entrepreneur, adulteducator and business leader.
In 1989, he founded TrainCanada, a national training
(00:50):
company that providedinformation technology and
business skill training tocorporate and government clients
across Canada.
After 28 years with TrainCanada and then a very short
retirement, Mark became apartner at Flint Learning
Solutions, a Canadian-basede-learning business.
Flint has developed a uniquelearning methodology that takes
(01:10):
leadership and sales training toa whole new level.
Innovation, planning,measurement and execution are
what Mark considers to be thekey factors to success in all
business.
Mark lives just north ofToronto in Canada with his wife
of 40 years, and they have twogrown children.
(01:31):
To escape the world of business, Mark enjoys nothing more than
a week of camping and fishing.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Welcome to the show Mark.
Thanks very much, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So are you getting any camping or fishing in lately
?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I did.
It was well.
Today's June 24th and June 15thwas opening bass season, so I
got out for three days with mybest buddy and caught some bass.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
That is fantastic.
Near you Like, do you fish nearyou?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, it's actually.
He lives in Ottawa, so it wasjust outside of Ottawa.
And yeah, no wives were allowed, just the guys and a wonderful
time.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I think that's important, important.
We all need time away.
We recharge so well.
I'm glad you.
I'm glad you got away and I'msure you have many more trips
this summer planned.
Well, I hope you do yes allright.
Well, I want to thank you forjoining us on the Leader Impact
podcast.
We've been having a great timeover the past two years, and
it's I love showing up here justto meet people like yourself,
(02:24):
so thank you for joining us.
We usually yeah, we usuallystart off our first question
with if you can tell us a littlebit about your professional
story and how you got to whereyou are today.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Sure.
So I saw my very first computerwhen I was in grade 12 in high
school and I just fell in love.
I just it was the greatestthing, and so I knew I wanted to
be in technology.
That's from that day on.
So I went to university forcomputer science back in the
(03:01):
early 80s and I was a terriblestudent and being asked not to
come back.
But I got a job as a developerand I did that for a couple of
years and then we moved toOttawa and I was looking for a
job and there was an ad for acomputer trainer.
(03:21):
So you have to appreciate thisis in the mid 80s.
Computers were just brand new inthe workplace and so they were
being put on people's desks andthey had no idea what to do with
them.
So I was hired by this companythat was selling computers and I
would go out and train peopleon how to use their technology.
(03:42):
I found out I really liked it,it was something I was really
good at, and so I got to work intechnology and to work with
people, and so I did that for acouple of years.
And then a friend of mine saidyou know, you should start your
own trading business and I was26 years old and I had no money.
And he said well, 26 years old,I had no money.
(04:07):
And he said well, I'll frontyou some money.
And so he helped me set up.
We set up six computers in oneclassroom and that's where I got
started and we just grew thebusiness over 28 years and we
had 13 locations across Canadaand it was just a really great
time and I got to play withtechnology all day long and yeah
(04:27):
.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So where did you see your first computer?
Because I don't know, if youlike, they were expensive in the
beginning yeah, so in highschool our high school bought
six Commodore 10s.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
We're in a special room and you had to have special
access to get onto them.
And yeah, that was the firsttime I used a computer and it
was pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And those rooms were all like the air was controlled.
Was that true?
Yeah, I remember that, and nowwe're like sitting in the sun
with our laptops.
How times have changed, so I'mwondering if you can give us a
couple snapshots that will maybepivotal turning points along
that journey.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, so like when I started off, I knew technology,
I had learned how to educatepeople, how to educate adults,
and but I had no sense ofbusiness.
I really had no businesstraining and so my friend who
had helped finance our startup,and so he remained a partner he
(05:33):
never worked in the business,but he remained a partner of
mine for 28 years and he had an.
MBA and he knew all aboutbusiness and he taught me and
really it.
You know those early years justlearning how to run a business.
But I think that the bigpivotal point came about five
years in, where we learned howto make money Just to give you a
(06:00):
little bit of background thatthe biggest challenge in the
training industry, and still istoday, is that you don't make
money on your first student.
So you're running a class, oneperson signs up, it's not even
the second or third.
It's usually not until thefifth or sixth student, when you
have enough volume in theclassroom that you can make some
money.
And so the norm in the industryis that you'd put up a schedule
(06:24):
here's the classes we'rerunning and if you don't get
enough registrations, you wouldend up canceling the course and
or, you know, moving themforward to the next stage until
you got enough people.
Well, we came up with this ideaand I can't take all the credit.
It was actually our salesmanager who was the brainchild
(06:46):
behind.
It was her idea where we cameup with a way that we could make
sure that we made money on thefirst registration, and so,
consequently, I won't get intothe secret sauce of what we did,
but we figured out how we couldmake money on the first
registration and so,consequently, we didn't have to
cancel any more classes, andthat really differentiated us
from our competitors and we wereable to guarantee all our
classes were going to run, andthen, once you could guarantee a
(07:08):
class was going to run, otherpeople would be willing to sign
up knowing they weren't going toget cancelled out and yeah, we
were really able to reallyskyrocket after that and took
out a bunch of competitorsthrough that strategy and that
really has allowed us to grow.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, there's companies today that still
cancel when there's not enoughpeople in the class.
Absolutely, oh it's.
It's makes me angry.
I mean I'm the student, so it'slike, oh, I can't.
I mean I've arranged myschedule so I can see that being
a big deal.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, so that was.
That was really, when we lookback at the history of the
company.
We were struggling, trying tomake ends meet, and when we came
up with this strategy, it justturned everything around and we
just grew like crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, good point.
So can you give us the bestprinciple of success that maybe
you've learned and maybe tell usa story that you have that
would illustrate that?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, I would probably.
You know two or three thingsthat really come to mind.
I mean, the first is, you know,just surrounding yourself with
people who are smarter than you,and you know my mentor and
business partner for all thoseyears, he's still smarter than
me and you know we hired peoplethat were, you know, experts in
(08:25):
their field and you know, justnot thinking that you can do it
all yourself, and so I thinkthat's really important.
Another thing that we reallydid well at was being able to
innovate.
And, as you can imagine, whenwe started in 89, computers
again were still in theirinfancy and technology has
(08:46):
changed.
I mean, it's changing daily nowand it has just changed over
and over and we we had to stayon top of it because we were
training the latest, greatesttechnology and you had to be
continuously innovating.
And two things that come to mindthat we really innovated well
at and it seems kind of somekind of funny to look at it back
(09:06):
at now, but we were the firstcompany to start doing remote
training.
I mean almost all training isremote now.
I mean you go on a Zoomclassroom, but nobody was doing
that.
It was all classroom based andwe were the first company to
start doing that, just when theInternet was in infancy.
When the internet was ininfancy and we didn't have zoom
(09:33):
and teams and and we set upclassrooms and connected
together with closed caption tvand used conference phones and
so on so that we could have, youknow, students in different
cities connected together into aclassroom.
So that was a real innovation.
The other big innovation we madewas when you're doing the
higher end technology training,server training and so on, back
(09:56):
in the day, you we would have toset up physically the equipment
in a classroom so the studentscommitted and have a hands-on
experience.
That was an expensive, you know, to set up the classrooms and
of course, the technology waschanging.
So every year you're updatinguh computers and software and so
, again, we were one of thefirst companies to set up our
(10:18):
own private cloud and put virtueand we created virtual machines
in the cloud.
So you come into a classroomyou didn, you could just use any
regular laptop or desktop andyou remote it into our personal
cloud and you would log intoyour server there.
Now, again, that's commonplace,everybody does that, but we
(10:38):
were the first in Canada to setthat up and, again, that was
just really innovative.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, because how this was like.
I know we're talking about itlike yeah, and so what?
Because everybody's doing itnow.
What year was this?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Oh, we started the remote training in the mid 90s,
you know, yeah, yeah, it wasreally quite different and it
was hard, it was a hard sell.
People were like, what, I'mgoing to go sit in a classroom
with nobody else is there andI'm still on a TV, and it's like
, yeah, yeah, you'll really loveit.
And they did at the beginning.
But, you know, and then, uh,you know, it was a big expense
(11:13):
to set up our own cloud, um, but, uh, you know, the initial
investment paid off in spadesbecause we didn't have to keep
reconfiguring our classrooms.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So, yeah, and I can imagine that the people coming
to see you for training, um, I'mthinking would have been senior
staff at the or no, because Ithink at this point computers
were still new.
I mean, not everybody had one,that was for sure yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Oh, it was all over the map.
Um, so you know from just yourregular office worker who needs
to learn how to use Excel orWord to you know we did all the
technology stack.
So if you're a CTO you wouldcome to us to learn the latest
technology, and then you know wewould also do executive
(12:03):
training as well.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So it was really all across.
Yeah, good, executive trainingas well.
So it was really all across,yeah, good.
So on our show we talk a lotabout failures and mistakes,
because I think we know we learnmore from them than our own
successes.
So I'm wondering if you canshare one of your greatest
failures or mistakes and whatyou, what you learned from it.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Oh, I certainly had my fair share of failures.
I mean, we learn from ourmistakes, as you said.
I think probably the biggestmistake, costliest mistake we
made, again, this was back inthe mid-90s, when we were
working.
We had started doing thisremote training and we were
looking to enhance that.
(12:43):
And this was during the dot-combubble and there was all these
companies in silicon valley andum.
So we hired a company to helpus develop a software, something
like zoom.
So even before it invented, wewe knew that's what we wanted,
but we didn't know how to makeit.
So we hired a company to to dothat.
We gave them lots of money, uh,and, but we actually didn't
(13:08):
even go and visit them.
We just did this all online.
And so a couple of months intothe project we went out to
Silicon Valley to, you know,meet with them and see how we
were doing, and so in thedevelopment project and turns
out that there was just it wasjust a storefront with a couple
of guys who didn't know whatthey were doing.
And so yeah, that was a verycostly mistake because we had
(13:30):
fronted like a quarter milliondollars up front to get this
project started and, yeah, welost all that money.
And then the dot-com bubbleburst.
So, yeah, learn to do your duediligence before hiring somebody
.
But it was a frenzy time it was.
Everybody was just trying toget in and you know, and make as
(13:54):
much money as you could, fastas you could.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, I think that happens probably a lot, where
people want to get ahead of thecurve, they want to jump on
something and they don't dotheir due diligence.
And you know, if it's $1,000,$10,000, quarter of a million
dollars, the scale doesn'tmatter.
You didn't do your work.
(14:16):
You didn't lie down there.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
That's a great example.
All right, we move into LeaderImpact because I believe you're
a member.
Where are you a Leader Impactmember?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So in Vaughan, which is the north part of Toronto, so
we started a group there.
I mean, another fellow starteda group there, I guess about 10
years ago now, and then duringCOVID we went remote and we
stayed remote and so we've acouple of the guys have moved
away, but it's still connectedwith the group and it's great.
(14:57):
So we get together kind of oncea quarter for breakfast, but
the rest of the time yeah, ourgroup is very similar.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So obviously at Leader Impact we want to grow
personally, professionally andspiritually for increasing
impact.
I was wondering if you'd bewilling to share an example of
how the spiritual makes apractical difference in your
life as a leader.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Like for me.
As I said, you know, ourbusiness really took off when we
started to learn how to makemoney.
And I often say to my staff allthe time you know we are a for
profit company.
This is we're not a charity,we're here to make money.
(15:42):
But you know, money is not adriving force for me, it's, it's
a necessary thing for business.
If your business isn't makingmoney, you don't really have a
business.
But what really is important tome is people, and you know, I
think a business that has goodpeople, has loyal employees,
(16:04):
good clients, loyal clients, isone that will really grow.
And you know, as a Christian,to me it's really important how
we treat people.
It's like every human is madein the image of God and everyone
has immense value, and so we'vealways made it a priority in
how we treat others.
(16:25):
It starts with the client howdo we treat our clients honestly
and fairly, and how we treatour co-workers and how do we
treat our superiors and ourreports, and that really just
became a big part of our cultureand that all comes out of, you
know, my faith and that that wasreally an important value in
(16:48):
the company.
You know I can give you acouple examples, you know, like
we've had over the years had ofemployees who have had issues in
their life family issues,sickness, health issues, that
sort of thing.
And you know we just give themthe time off, paid time off.
If you need to go, take a month, you need to take two months,
(17:10):
we'll keep paying your salary,don't worry about it go.
You know, fix what you neverneed to fix and that that is,
you know, just builds greatloyalty.
Uh, the other staff see it aswell and, um, it's the right
thing to do when somebody's onhard times.
You don't kick them to the curb.
Um, you know.
And then treating our clientswith great respect, I mean,
(17:33):
remember one time we gotoverpaid on an invoice by about
$50,000 and there is no way thatthe client would ever know.
And you know I called them upand said, hey, you overpaid,
overpaid this.
You know I'm sending you backyour fifty thousand dollars and,
uh, you know that just goes along way to, you know, and I
(17:54):
don't know how I could have everkept the money it wasn't my
money and that was wrong but, um, just building a great loyal
customer.
And yeah, so our christianvalues um can have a real
practical impact into thesuccess of your business.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Great examples and I'm thankful.
You know we are here to makemoney.
I sometimes wonder if peoplethink no, christians, they're
really nice people in business.
Nope, nope, we're here to makemoney, give people a living, a
life that you know, and peoplefirst.
So those are some greatexamples, great Practical
(18:32):
examples.
At Leader Impact, we arededicated to leaders having a
lasting impact.
So, as you continue to movethrough this journey and I don't
know if you're going to head toretirement and come back out
again, who knows?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Well, my wife has a thing to say about this.
She wants me to retire, but I'mnot ready yet.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Oh yeah.
Well, as you continue to movethrough this journey, I'm
wondering if you've consideredwhat you want your faith legacy
to be when you leave this world.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think of the story,the parable, you know, where
the master goes on a trip andgives the responsibility to
three servants, and you know,you know the story well.
Well, where money gives, uh,you know, three bags of money
and the other two, and one oneand the, the ones with the, the
five and the um two, theythey're able to double the money
(19:23):
, and the one with one bag ofmoney, um, you know, hides it
away and does nothing with it,and the master returns it's like
you know, well done, faithfulservant to the ones who doubled
their money.
And you know, so I really seethat what our purpose is, and
what I want my legacy to be, isto be able to maximize the time
(19:46):
and talent and treasure that hasbeen entrusted to us, and so I
think that's really important.
It's not I don't want my name ona building, but I want to know
that I've made a difference insomebody's life.
I've made a difference in aministry, I've made a difference
in a church, and you know sowe've done many things towards
(20:09):
that.
You know, my wife and I, wechose very early on, when we
started having some success,that we were going to live well
below our means.
So we don't live in a big fancyhouse, we don't have all the
toys, we don't have a cottageand we could have all those
things, but we've chosen not toand to use our, our time and
(20:31):
talents and and our treasure tofurther the kingdom.
And to me, that's really what Iwant my legacy to be to really
have given it all and, you know,doubled it for the kingdom.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Wow, it's very inspiring, mark.
Thank you for sharing that.
Living under your means meansfor some people, I think, would
be very, maybe very hard right,we see other people living, we
see other people doing thevacations, we see other people
big houses, you know the boats,the, and you want to keep up so.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, don't get me wrong, we, we have a nice house.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
We drive a nice car.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, so it's.
It's not about living inpoverty, but you know, you can
live in a million-dollar house.
You don't need to have a $5million house.
You can drive a Honda Civic,you don't need to drive a Jaguar
.
You know, like it's, you know,okay.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Thanks for correcting that.
That was good.
Our last question we askeverybody is what brings you the
greatest joy?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I think when I think about that it's in Leader Impact
.
In our group we did a bookcalled the 10-Second Rule.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that book and just with
the premise of the book is thatwhen the Holy Spirit prompts you
(22:09):
to do something, you have 10seconds to do it, Because if you
don't do it within the first 10seconds, you'll probably come
up with a reason not to do it,because if you don't do it
within the first 10 seconds,you'll probably come up with a
reason not to do it.
And uh, so you know, as Ithought about that, as we went
through that book and we were,we were all practicing it within
our group and we tell storiesabout you know how I felt the
(22:29):
holy spirit prompted me to dosomething and you, you know,
when I look back and some of thetimes that where I've been
prompted to do something andthen you find out that that was
an answer to somebody's prayerand that really gives me the
greatest joy.
And I can give you a coupleexamples, I mean from simple
(22:50):
things.
Like you feel like this HolySpirit telling you say, you know
you should give someone a phonecall.
So you pick up this Holy Spirittelling you, you know you
should give so-and-so a phonecall.
So you pick up the phone andyou call them.
Hey, how's the corner?
I was just thinking about you.
And you know they'll say, oh,that is.
You know, I was just reallyneeded to talk to somebody today
and you know I'd love to getyour advice on this or that, and
it's just, you know, somethinglike that.
(23:10):
It can be really great.
Um, you know, when it comes toto money, there's been occasions
where, like you know, my wifeand I'll be praying and we'll
it's like you know what I feellike we need to send this person
some money.
And uh, it's like okay, and so,um, you know, we're again a big
part of, um, what we, what wereally like to do, is to share
(23:34):
our wealth with other ministriesand so on.
And so I remember this oneoccasion.
It was this pastor that we'veknown well and we pray for
periodically, but we don'treally support their ministry
and we were just praying andit's like, yeah, the Holy Spirit
was saying, yeah, we need tosend them some money.
So we wrote him a check for$5,000, sent it off in the mail,
didn't think twice about itmoney, so we wrote him a check
(23:57):
for 5,000, sent it off in themail, didn't think twice about
it and about a month later or sowe ran into them somewhere and
they go.
You would not believe thedifference.
That money we had been praying,desperately praying that the
Lord would provide some moneyfor.
I can't even remember what itwas, and it came just at the
right time.
And so just knowing that theLord is using us to answer other
people's prayers, knowing thatthe Lord is using us to answer
other people's prayers, that isjust a real thrill and I think
that you know, you just feelgreat.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And so that's what really gives me the greatest joy
is just being part of God'splan and working through other
people's lives.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, I think, for maybe people listening they
don't, they may not know it'sthe Holy Spirit.
They may call it a gut feel,you know, and maybe that's okay
until they could.
I mean, you recognize it as theHoly Spirit and I do, and I
can't say that I act on it allthe time and then I just shake
(24:50):
my head.
But if you are calling it a gutinstinct, maybe next time act on
it.
And when it is something likethis, like oh, I needed this
phone call, know that it goesbig, it's bigger than that, you
know.
Yeah, that's a great story,because I don't act on my own
gut sometimes and then shake myhead.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I can tell you a whole bunch of stories when I
didn't act on it.
I can tell you a whole bunch ofstories when I didn't act on it
.
We have those too,unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I like to believe that it will come around again,
if it's meant to happen, If Ididn't, you know, the Holy
Spirit tried and I didn't.
I want to believe that you knowit will come around, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
God's not giving up.
Yeah, I mean God will use us.
We're not willing to usesomebody else.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yes, well, mark, I want to thank you for taking the
time with us today just to sitdown and chat.
It was a pleasure to meet you.
If anyone wants to connect withyou, or even find out more
about your companies, or justfind you, what is the best way
to connect with you?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, probably the best way to get a hold of me is
through LinkedIn.
So there's a couple thousandMark Petersons on LinkedIn.
But if you look up for if youlook Mark Peterson and then
Flint learning solutions justMark Peterson, flint you'll find
me.
And yeah, I check my messageson LinkedIn regularly.
So, yeah, I'd love to Okay Withanybody.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Good point, because, like I'm a Lisa Peters, there's
probably about a million of ustoo.
Anyway, I want to thank you forjoining us again, mark.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Great pleasure.
Thanks, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Well, this ends our podcast.
We hope you enjoyed our timetogether.
If you're part of Leader Impact, you can always discuss or
share this podcast with yourgroup.
And if you are not yet part ofLeader Impact and would like to
find out more and grow yourleadership, find our podcast
page on our website atleaderimpactca and check out our
free leadership assessment.
You'll also find on our webpagechapter one of Braden Douglas'
(26:47):
book Becoming a Leader of Impact.
You can also check out ourgroups available in Canada at
leaderimpactca or, if you'relistening from anywhere else in
the world, check outleaderimpactcom or get in touch
with us by email info atleaderimpactca and we will
connect you.
And if you like this podcast,please leave us a comment, give
us a rating or a review.
(27:07):
This will help other globalleaders find our podcast.
Thank you for engaging with usand remember impact starts with
you.
Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast.
We are a community of leaderswith a network in over 350
cities around the world,dedicated to optimizing our
personal, professional andspiritual lives to have impact.
This show is where we have achance to listen and engage with
leaders who are living this out.
We love talking with leaders,so if you have any questions,
comments or suggestions to makethe show even better, please let
(00:27):
us know.
The best way to stay connectedin Canada is through our
newsletter at leaderimpact.
ca or on social media at LeaderImpact.
If you're listening fromoutside of Canada, check out our
website at leaderimpact.
com.
I'm your host, Lisa Peters, andour guest today is Mark Peterson
.
Mark is an entrepreneur, adulteducator and business leader.
In 1989, he founded TrainCanada, a national training
(00:50):
company that providedinformation technology and
business skill training tocorporate and government clients
across Canada.
After 28 years with TrainCanada and then a very short
retirement, Mark became apartner at Flint Learning
Solutions, a Canadian-basede-learning business.
Flint has developed a uniquelearning methodology that takes
(01:10):
leadership and sales training toa whole new level.
Innovation, planning,measurement and execution are
what Mark considers to be thekey factors to success in all
business.
Mark lives just north ofToronto in Canada with his wife
of 40 years, and they have twogrown children.
(01:31):
To escape the world of business, Mark enjoys nothing more than
a week of camping and fishing.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Welcome to the show Mark.
Thanks very much, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So are you getting any camping or fishing in lately
?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I did.
It was well.
Today's June 24th and June 15thwas opening bass season, so I
got out for three days with mybest buddy and caught some bass.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
That is fantastic.
Near you Like, do you fish nearyou?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah, it's actually.
He lives in Ottawa, so it wasjust outside of Ottawa.
And yeah, no wives were allowed, just the guys and a wonderful
time.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I think that's important, important.
We all need time away.
We recharge so well.
I'm glad you.
I'm glad you got away and I'msure you have many more trips
this summer planned.
Well, I hope you do yes allright.
Well, I want to thank you forjoining us on the Leader Impact
podcast.
We've been having a great timeover the past two years, and
it's I love showing up here justto meet people like yourself,
(02:24):
so thank you for joining us.
We usually yeah, we usuallystart off our first question
with if you can tell us a littlebit about your professional
story and how you got to whereyou are today.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Sure.
So I saw my very first computerwhen I was in grade 12 in high
school and I just fell in love.
I just it was the greatestthing, and so I knew I wanted to
be in technology.
That's from that day on.
So I went to university forcomputer science back in the
(03:01):
early 80s and I was a terriblestudent and being asked not to
come back.
But I got a job as a developerand I did that for a couple of
years and then we moved toOttawa and I was looking for a
job and there was an ad for acomputer trainer.
(03:21):
So you have to appreciate thisis in the mid 80s.
Computers were just brand new inthe workplace and so they were
being put on people's desks andthey had no idea what to do with
them.
So I was hired by this companythat was selling computers and I
would go out and train peopleon how to use their technology.
(03:42):
I found out I really liked it,it was something I was really
good at, and so I got to work intechnology and to work with
people, and so I did that for acouple of years.
And then a friend of mine saidyou know, you should start your
own trading business and I was26 years old and I had no money.
And he said well, 26 years old,I had no money.
(04:07):
And he said well, I'll frontyou some money.
And so he helped me set up.
We set up six computers in oneclassroom and that's where I got
started and we just grew thebusiness over 28 years and we
had 13 locations across Canadaand it was just a really great
time and I got to play withtechnology all day long and yeah
(04:27):
.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
So where did you see your first computer?
Because I don't know, if youlike, they were expensive in the
beginning yeah, so in highschool our high school bought
six Commodore 10s.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
We're in a special room and you had to have special
access to get onto them.
And yeah, that was the firsttime I used a computer and it
was pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And those rooms were all like the air was controlled.
Was that true?
Yeah, I remember that, and nowwe're like sitting in the sun
with our laptops.
How times have changed, so I'mwondering if you can give us a
couple snapshots that will maybepivotal turning points along
that journey.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, so like when I started off, I knew technology,
I had learned how to educatepeople, how to educate adults,
and but I had no sense ofbusiness.
I really had no businesstraining and so my friend who
had helped finance our startup,and so he remained a partner he
(05:33):
never worked in the business,but he remained a partner of
mine for 28 years and he had an.
MBA and he knew all aboutbusiness and he taught me and
really it.
You know those early years justlearning how to run a business.
But I think that the bigpivotal point came about five
years in, where we learned howto make money Just to give you a
(06:00):
little bit of background thatthe biggest challenge in the
training industry, and still istoday, is that you don't make
money on your first student.
So you're running a class, oneperson signs up, it's not even
the second or third.
It's usually not until thefifth or sixth student, when you
have enough volume in theclassroom that you can make some
money.
And so the norm in the industryis that you'd put up a schedule
(06:24):
here's the classes we'rerunning and if you don't get
enough registrations, you wouldend up canceling the course and
or, you know, moving themforward to the next stage until
you got enough people.
Well, we came up with this ideaand I can't take all the credit.
It was actually our salesmanager who was the brainchild
(06:46):
behind.
It was her idea where we cameup with a way that we could make
sure that we made money on thefirst registration, and so,
consequently, I won't get intothe secret sauce of what we did,
but we figured out how we couldmake money on the first
registration and so,consequently, we didn't have to
cancel any more classes, andthat really differentiated us
from our competitors and we wereable to guarantee all our
classes were going to run, andthen, once you could guarantee a
(07:08):
class was going to run, otherpeople would be willing to sign
up knowing they weren't going toget cancelled out and yeah, we
were really able to reallyskyrocket after that and took
out a bunch of competitorsthrough that strategy and that
really has allowed us to grow.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, there's companies today that still
cancel when there's not enoughpeople in the class.
Absolutely, oh it's.
It's makes me angry.
I mean I'm the student, so it'slike, oh, I can't.
I mean I've arranged myschedule so I can see that being
a big deal.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, so that was.
That was really, when we lookback at the history of the
company.
We were struggling, trying tomake ends meet, and when we came
up with this strategy, it justturned everything around and we
just grew like crazy.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, good point.
So can you give us the bestprinciple of success that maybe
you've learned and maybe tell usa story that you have that
would illustrate that?
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, I would probably.
You know two or three thingsthat really come to mind.
I mean, the first is, you know,just surrounding yourself with
people who are smarter than you,and you know my mentor and
business partner for all thoseyears, he's still smarter than
me and you know we hired peoplethat were, you know, experts in
(08:25):
their field and you know, justnot thinking that you can do it
all yourself, and so I thinkthat's really important.
Another thing that we reallydid well at was being able to
innovate.
And, as you can imagine, whenwe started in 89, computers
again were still in theirinfancy and technology has
(08:46):
changed.
I mean, it's changing daily nowand it has just changed over
and over and we we had to stayon top of it because we were
training the latest, greatesttechnology and you had to be
continuously innovating.
And two things that come to mindthat we really innovated well
at and it seems kind of somekind of funny to look at it back
(09:06):
at now, but we were the firstcompany to start doing remote
training.
I mean almost all training isremote now.
I mean you go on a Zoomclassroom, but nobody was doing
that.
It was all classroom based andwe were the first company to
start doing that, just when theInternet was in infancy.
When the internet was ininfancy and we didn't have zoom
(09:33):
and teams and and we set upclassrooms and connected
together with closed caption tvand used conference phones and
so on so that we could have, youknow, students in different
cities connected together into aclassroom.
So that was a real innovation.
The other big innovation we madewas when you're doing the
higher end technology training,server training and so on, back
(09:56):
in the day, you we would have toset up physically the equipment
in a classroom so the studentscommitted and have a hands-on
experience.
That was an expensive, you know, to set up the classrooms and
of course, the technology waschanging.
So every year you're updatinguh computers and software and so
, again, we were one of thefirst companies to set up our
(10:18):
own private cloud and put virtueand we created virtual machines
in the cloud.
So you come into a classroomyou didn, you could just use any
regular laptop or desktop andyou remote it into our personal
cloud and you would log intoyour server there.
Now, again, that's commonplace,everybody does that, but we
(10:38):
were the first in Canada to setthat up and, again, that was
just really innovative.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, because how this was like.
I know we're talking about itlike yeah, and so what?
Because everybody's doing itnow.
What year was this?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Oh, we started the remote training in the mid 90s,
you know, yeah, yeah, it wasreally quite different and it
was hard, it was a hard sell.
People were like, what, I'mgoing to go sit in a classroom
with nobody else is there andI'm still on a TV, and it's like
, yeah, yeah, you'll really loveit.
And they did at the beginning.
But, you know, and then, uh,you know, it was a big expense
(11:13):
to set up our own cloud, um, but, uh, you know, the initial
investment paid off in spadesbecause we didn't have to keep
reconfiguring our classrooms.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So, yeah, and I can imagine that the people coming
to see you for training, um, I'mthinking would have been senior
staff at the or no, because Ithink at this point computers
were still new.
I mean, not everybody had one,that was for sure yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Oh, it was all over the map.
Um, so you know from just yourregular office worker who needs
to learn how to use Excel orWord to you know we did all the
technology stack.
So if you're a CTO you wouldcome to us to learn the latest
technology, and then you know wewould also do executive
(12:03):
training as well.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
So it was really all across.
Yeah, good, executive trainingas well.
So it was really all across,yeah, good.
So on our show we talk a lotabout failures and mistakes,
because I think we know we learnmore from them than our own
successes.
So I'm wondering if you canshare one of your greatest
failures or mistakes and whatyou, what you learned from it.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Oh, I certainly had my fair share of failures.
I mean, we learn from ourmistakes, as you said.
I think probably the biggestmistake, costliest mistake we
made, again, this was back inthe mid-90s, when we were
working.
We had started doing thisremote training and we were
looking to enhance that.
(12:43):
And this was during the dot-combubble and there was all these
companies in silicon valley andum.
So we hired a company to helpus develop a software, something
like zoom.
So even before it invented, wewe knew that's what we wanted,
but we didn't know how to makeit.
So we hired a company to to dothat.
We gave them lots of money, uh,and, but we actually didn't
(13:08):
even go and visit them.
We just did this all online.
And so a couple of months intothe project we went out to
Silicon Valley to, you know,meet with them and see how we
were doing, and so in thedevelopment project and turns
out that there was just it wasjust a storefront with a couple
of guys who didn't know whatthey were doing.
And so yeah, that was a verycostly mistake because we had
(13:30):
fronted like a quarter milliondollars up front to get this
project started and, yeah, welost all that money.
And then the dot-com bubbleburst.
So, yeah, learn to do your duediligence before hiring somebody
.
But it was a frenzy time it was.
Everybody was just trying toget in and you know, and make as
(13:54):
much money as you could, fastas you could.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Yeah, I think that happens probably a lot, where
people want to get ahead of thecurve, they want to jump on
something and they don't dotheir due diligence.
And you know, if it's $1,000,$10,000, quarter of a million
dollars, the scale doesn'tmatter.
You didn't do your work.
(14:16):
You didn't lie down there.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
That's a great example.
All right, we move into LeaderImpact because I believe you're
a member.
Where are you a Leader Impactmember?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
So in Vaughan, which is the north part of Toronto, so
we started a group there.
I mean, another fellow starteda group there, I guess about 10
years ago now, and then duringCOVID we went remote and we
stayed remote and so we've acouple of the guys have moved
away, but it's still connectedwith the group and it's great.
(14:57):
So we get together kind of oncea quarter for breakfast, but
the rest of the time yeah, ourgroup is very similar.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
So obviously at Leader Impact we want to grow
personally, professionally andspiritually for increasing
impact.
I was wondering if you'd bewilling to share an example of
how the spiritual makes apractical difference in your
life as a leader.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Like for me.
As I said, you know, ourbusiness really took off when we
started to learn how to makemoney.
And I often say to my staff allthe time you know we are a for
profit company.
This is we're not a charity,we're here to make money.
(15:42):
But you know, money is not adriving force for me, it's, it's
a necessary thing for business.
If your business isn't makingmoney, you don't really have a
business.
But what really is important tome is people, and you know, I
think a business that has goodpeople, has loyal employees,
(16:04):
good clients, loyal clients, isone that will really grow.
And you know, as a Christian,to me it's really important how
we treat people.
It's like every human is madein the image of God and everyone
has immense value, and so we'vealways made it a priority in
how we treat others.
(16:25):
It starts with the client howdo we treat our clients honestly
and fairly, and how we treatour co-workers and how do we
treat our superiors and ourreports, and that really just
became a big part of our cultureand that all comes out of, you
know, my faith and that that wasreally an important value in
(16:48):
the company.
You know I can give you acouple examples, you know, like
we've had over the years had ofemployees who have had issues in
their life family issues,sickness, health issues, that
sort of thing.
And you know we just give themthe time off, paid time off.
If you need to go, take a month, you need to take two months,
(17:10):
we'll keep paying your salary,don't worry about it go.
You know, fix what you neverneed to fix and that that is,
you know, just builds greatloyalty.
Uh, the other staff see it aswell and, um, it's the right
thing to do when somebody's onhard times.
You don't kick them to the curb.
Um, you know.
And then treating our clientswith great respect, I mean,
(17:33):
remember one time we gotoverpaid on an invoice by about
$50,000 and there is no way thatthe client would ever know.
And you know I called them upand said, hey, you overpaid,
overpaid this.
You know I'm sending you backyour fifty thousand dollars and,
uh, you know that just goes along way to, you know, and I
(17:54):
don't know how I could have everkept the money it wasn't my
money and that was wrong but, um, just building a great loyal
customer.
And yeah, so our christianvalues um can have a real
practical impact into thesuccess of your business.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Great examples and I'm thankful.
You know we are here to makemoney.
I sometimes wonder if peoplethink no, christians, they're
really nice people in business.
Nope, nope, we're here to makemoney, give people a living, a
life that you know, and peoplefirst.
So those are some greatexamples, great Practical
(18:32):
examples.
At Leader Impact, we arededicated to leaders having a
lasting impact.
So, as you continue to movethrough this journey and I don't
know if you're going to head toretirement and come back out
again, who knows?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Well, my wife has a thing to say about this.
She wants me to retire, but I'mnot ready yet.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Oh yeah.
Well, as you continue to movethrough this journey, I'm
wondering if you've consideredwhat you want your faith legacy
to be when you leave this world.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, I think of the story,the parable, you know, where
the master goes on a trip andgives the responsibility to
three servants, and you know,you know the story well.
Well, where money gives, uh,you know, three bags of money
and the other two, and one oneand the, the ones with the, the
five and the um two, theythey're able to double the money
(19:23):
, and the one with one bag ofmoney, um, you know, hides it
away and does nothing with it,and the master returns it's like
you know, well done, faithfulservant to the ones who doubled
their money.
And you know, so I really seethat what our purpose is, and
what I want my legacy to be, isto be able to maximize the time
(19:46):
and talent and treasure that hasbeen entrusted to us, and so I
think that's really important.
It's not I don't want my name ona building, but I want to know
that I've made a difference insomebody's life.
I've made a difference in aministry, I've made a difference
in a church, and you know sowe've done many things towards
(20:09):
that.
You know, my wife and I, wechose very early on, when we
started having some success,that we were going to live well
below our means.
So we don't live in a big fancyhouse, we don't have all the
toys, we don't have a cottageand we could have all those
things, but we've chosen not toand to use our, our time and
(20:31):
talents and and our treasure tofurther the kingdom.
And to me, that's really what Iwant my legacy to be to really
have given it all and, you know,doubled it for the kingdom.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Wow, it's very inspiring, mark.
Thank you for sharing that.
Living under your means meansfor some people, I think, would
be very, maybe very hard right,we see other people living, we
see other people doing thevacations, we see other people
big houses, you know the boats,the, and you want to keep up so.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, don't get me wrong, we, we have a nice house.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
We drive a nice car.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Yeah, so it's.
It's not about living inpoverty, but you know, you can
live in a million-dollar house.
You don't need to have a $5million house.
You can drive a Honda Civic,you don't need to drive a Jaguar
.
You know, like it's, you know,okay.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Thanks for correcting that.
That was good.
Our last question we askeverybody is what brings you the
greatest joy?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
I think when I think about that it's in Leader Impact
.
In our group we did a bookcalled the 10-Second Rule.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that book and just with
the premise of the book is thatwhen the Holy Spirit prompts you
(22:09):
to do something, you have 10seconds to do it, Because if you
don't do it within the first 10seconds, you'll probably come
up with a reason not to do it,because if you don't do it
within the first 10 seconds,you'll probably come up with a
reason not to do it.
And uh, so you know, as Ithought about that, as we went
through that book and we were,we were all practicing it within
our group and we tell storiesabout you know how I felt the
(22:29):
holy spirit prompted me to dosomething and you, you know,
when I look back and some of thetimes that where I've been
prompted to do something andthen you find out that that was
an answer to somebody's prayerand that really gives me the
greatest joy.
And I can give you a coupleexamples, I mean from simple
(22:50):
things.
Like you feel like this HolySpirit telling you say, you know
you should give someone a phonecall.
So you pick up this Holy Spirittelling you, you know you
should give so-and-so a phonecall.
So you pick up the phone andyou call them.
Hey, how's the corner?
I was just thinking about you.
And you know they'll say, oh,that is.
You know, I was just reallyneeded to talk to somebody today
and you know I'd love to getyour advice on this or that, and
it's just, you know, somethinglike that.
(23:10):
It can be really great.
Um, you know, when it comes toto money, there's been occasions
where, like you know, my wifeand I'll be praying and we'll
it's like you know what I feellike we need to send this person
some money.
And uh, it's like okay, and so,um, you know, we're again a big
part of, um, what we, what wereally like to do, is to share
(23:34):
our wealth with other ministriesand so on.
And so I remember this oneoccasion.
It was this pastor that we'veknown well and we pray for
periodically, but we don'treally support their ministry
and we were just praying andit's like, yeah, the Holy Spirit
was saying, yeah, we need tosend them some money.
So we wrote him a check for$5,000, sent it off in the mail,
didn't think twice about itmoney, so we wrote him a check
(23:57):
for 5,000, sent it off in themail, didn't think twice about
it and about a month later or sowe ran into them somewhere and
they go.
You would not believe thedifference.
That money we had been praying,desperately praying that the
Lord would provide some moneyfor.
I can't even remember what itwas, and it came just at the
right time.
And so just knowing that theLord is using us to answer other
people's prayers, knowing thatthe Lord is using us to answer
other people's prayers, that isjust a real thrill and I think
that you know, you just feelgreat.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
And so that's what really gives me the greatest joy
is just being part of God'splan and working through other
people's lives.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, I think, for maybe people listening they
don't, they may not know it'sthe Holy Spirit.
They may call it a gut feel,you know, and maybe that's okay
until they could.
I mean, you recognize it as theHoly Spirit and I do, and I
can't say that I act on it allthe time and then I just shake
(24:50):
my head.
But if you are calling it a gutinstinct, maybe next time act on
it.
And when it is something likethis, like oh, I needed this
phone call, know that it goesbig, it's bigger than that, you
know.
Yeah, that's a great story,because I don't act on my own
gut sometimes and then shake myhead.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I can tell you a whole bunch of stories when I
didn't act on it.
I can tell you a whole bunch ofstories when I didn't act on it
.
We have those too,unfortunately.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
I like to believe that it will come around again,
if it's meant to happen, If Ididn't, you know, the Holy
Spirit tried and I didn't.
I want to believe that you knowit will come around, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
God's not giving up.
Yeah, I mean God will use us.
We're not willing to usesomebody else.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Yes, well, mark, I want to thank you for taking the
time with us today just to sitdown and chat.
It was a pleasure to meet you.
If anyone wants to connect withyou, or even find out more
about your companies, or justfind you, what is the best way
to connect with you?
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, probably the best way to get a hold of me is
through LinkedIn.
So there's a couple thousandMark Petersons on LinkedIn.
But if you look up for if youlook Mark Peterson and then
Flint learning solutions justMark Peterson, flint you'll find
me.
And yeah, I check my messageson LinkedIn regularly.
So, yeah, I'd love to Okay Withanybody.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Good point, because, like I'm a Lisa Peters, there's
probably about a million of ustoo.
Anyway, I want to thank you forjoining us again, mark.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Great pleasure.
Thanks, Lisa.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Well, this ends our podcast.
We hope you enjoyed our timetogether.
If you're part of Leader Impact, you can always discuss or
share this podcast with yourgroup.
And if you are not yet part ofLeader Impact and would like to
find out more and grow yourleadership, find our podcast
page on our website atleaderimpactca and check out our
free leadership assessment.
You'll also find on our webpagechapter one of Braden Douglas'
(26:47):
book Becoming a Leader of Impact.
You can also check out ourgroups available in Canada at
leaderimpactca or, if you'relistening from anywhere else in
the world, check outleaderimpactcom or get in touch
with us by email info atleaderimpactca and we will
connect you.
And if you like this podcast,please leave us a comment, give
us a rating or a review.
(27:07):
This will help other globalleaders find our podcast.
Thank you for engaging with usand remember impact starts with
you.
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