January 22, 2025 • 30 mins
Can Christian business leaders truly excel in the corporate world without compromising their beliefs? In this episode of the LeaderImpact podcast, we dive deep into the principles of effective Christian business leadership with insights from Dr. Rick Hall and Dr. Lita Taylor-Campbell. Their experience as educators and leaders in their respective fields provides a unique perspective on navigating the complexities of leading with faith in today's business environment. At the core of their discussion are the principles that guide Christian leaders in fostering both a productive workplace and a culture of integrity.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast.
We are a community of leaderswith a network in over 350
cities around the world,dedicated to optimizing our
personal, professional andspiritual lives to have impact.
This show is where we have achance to listen and engage with
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(00:27):
Best way to stay connected inCanada is through our newsletter
at leaderimpactca or on socialat Leader Impact.
If you're listening fromoutside of Canada, check out our
website at leaderimpactcom.
I'm your host, lisa Peters, andour guests today are Dr Rick
Hall and Dr Lita Taylor-Campbell.
Dr Hall is a professor anddirector of business leadership
and healthcare administration atColorado Christian University.
(00:48):
He is a co-owner of a dietarysupplement company and website
publishing company.
His work has been published inthe Journal of Academy of
Nutrition and Dietetics, theJournal of Medical Internet
Research and the Asian WallStreet Journal and Better Homes
and Gardens.
We also welcome to the show DrCampbell, who is a professor and
director of human resources,public administration and
(01:09):
non-profit management atColorado Christian University.
She is the president andfounder of a national management
consulting company and runs astrategic learning and thinking
services non-profit.
Her work has been published inthe Journal of Human Resources
and the Journal ofOrganizational Behavior.
She has also presented andpublished for the Society of
Human Resource Management, theSmall Business Administration,
(01:31):
the Association of TalentDevelopment, the Small Business
Development Center and the ACBSPWomen's Leadership Summit.
Welcome to the show, dr Halland Dr Campbell.
It's nice to have you was ohwell, thank you.
I was very excited when I foundan article and uh on on the
(01:51):
website that on the coloradochristian university, and I just
thought I really want to talkto someone about this.
So I you know, I'm thankfulthat you guys joined me.
Um, you have, you have a greatuh, your introduction is amazing
and, and, dr Hall, I think I'vetold you my daughter is going
to be a registered dietitian andloves it and breathes it, so I
was very excited to touch basewith you.
(02:12):
Pre-meeting was by MichaelZigarelli and he talks about
Christian-owned businesses andin his book he talks about the
(02:34):
eight different ways thatbusinesses live out their faith
and he also talks about the 100best practices.
So I'm very excited to talk toyou guys about principles for
effective Christian businessleadership.
I think sometimes and I don'tknow if anyone can answer are
there ever any myths peoplethink about when we think about
Christian leaders and Christianbusiness leaders?
Do you guys ever hear any mythsof?
Oh yeah, you must be.
(02:56):
Is there ever anything likethat?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So, as a consultant, I can tell you that I apologize
for my voice.
I have a cold.
But as a consultant, I can tellyou that I apologize for my
voice.
I have a cold.
But as a consultant, I can tellyou that many times when
organizations reach out and wantassistance, they're concerned
that a Christian might limittheir abilities to do all the
things.
I don't know where that comesfrom, but I work really hard to
quickly dispel thatunderstanding or that perception
(03:22):
, because it really actuallydoesn't have anything to do with
what we would recommend orsuggest or accept that.
It's rooted in some of theprinciples that we'll talk about
today.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, because we all really like the bottom line.
We do, dr Hall, any comments onany myths that you've?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
heard any myths that you've heard.
Well, I think there's anunderlying understanding or
belief that Christians haveeverything figured out, and I
think we put that on ourselvesas well, and the reality is we
are still human and we stillmake mistakes, we still are
sinful creatures, and so, aspart of the workforce, I think
(04:04):
that the exciting thing is thatwe have a blueprint or we have a
owner's manual to go to thatcan kind of steer us right.
But I think that's somethingthat I think of and hear of is
people feeling that at somereason, we are at a higher
standard or that we should havethings figured out already.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, and we don't Just saying Run my own business,
we don't.
So again, thank you.
I'm going to jump right inbecause we only have, you know,
say, 30 minutes.
But, dr Campbell, you talkabout, you have talked about
understanding your employees.
I want to talk a little bitabout that, because that is,
(04:43):
that's a principle, principlefor business.
I mean really, it's a principlefor everyone, right, right.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I truly believe that that's really where it all
starts, and I think it startseven before that.
You have to understand the workthat you're in business to do
and your mission and your valuesas an organization before you
can really understand youremployees, because you can't
hire correctly if you don't hirefor the right things, and so it
starts before that.
But it goes really deep, in myopinion.
I've seen it work very wellwhen you really understand your
(05:12):
employees to the point where youknow what they're interested in
and passionate about and whatthey'd like to grow into and
what kind of training they'dlike and what new things they'd
like to learn about, so that youcan really help them, take
inventory of what they want todo, so that they can really
reach you know for the best themthat they can be.
And that only comes fromunderstanding, which takes a lot
(05:33):
of time, and you know we're allbusy and it's hard sometimes.
I only have 23 employees, butthe clients that I work with
have multiple thousands ofemployees and it's really hard
to find the time, but I wouldargue that it's one of the most
the best spent time that you canhave is to get to really
understand your employees.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, sometimes we definitely rush in to hiring and
go like we need an employeeversus, as you saying,
understanding.
Dr Hall, do you have anythingto add on to understanding your
employees?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think what's unique about us as Christian managers
is that we also have theunderstanding that these are
also God's children, you know,and that when we look at
employees and we look atpotential hires, we also
recognize that they were createdby God and that, you know.
I think we also look at gracedifferently when it comes to you
know.
Like I said, we all makemistakes and I think I'm hopeful
(06:33):
that Christian leaders have alittle bit deeper understanding
of what grace means, both in theworkforce and outside of the
workforce, when it relates toour employees as well.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, and I think, really helping finding our
employees, finding their calling, finding what they're really
good at, and understanding thattheir growth, they're moving
their passions along and I hopebut anything else to add on that
, and I definitely want to jumpin.
There's you guys, this articleis fantastic.
(07:03):
We'll reference it at the end.
But yeah, dr Hall, I definitelywant to jump in.
There's you guys, this articleis fantastic, we'll reference it
at the end.
But yeah, dr Hall, I know youtalked about focusing on
integrity and I, you know, tellus a little bit about that and
how you feel it's definitely.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, I feel like we, as Christian leaders, need to
hold ourselves to a higherstandard because, you know, at
the end of the day especially ifpeople know that we are
believers and I think thatintegrity is important for all
managers, all leaders.
But we, as Christian leaders,need to hold ourselves at a
higher standard and recognizingthat the role that we fill is
(07:41):
very fluid, but it's also very.
It demonstrates who we are asbelievers, as leaders, and if
our customers, if our employees,if our coworkers know that
we're believers, I think we needto hold ourselves to a higher
standard.
So I think integrity is reallyimportant for Christian leaders.
(08:02):
For that reason, yeah, For me.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
When I hear that and we hold ourselves to a higher
standard, the perfectionismseeks into me.
Dr Campbell, I can see younodding and then I want to be so
good.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Well, and I'm not I'm not so sure that that's just a
Christian thing.
I think, as a leader, we putthis, this burden, on ourselves.
If we want to be effective, wehave to understand that we're
setting the tone and you knowwe're setting the example and I,
for me, the place where I gofirst is always the Bible.
I go to scripture to understandwhy am I struggling with this
(08:42):
particular thing?
How come this is more difficultthan this other thing is?
But you're right, perfectionismcan really get in our head and
mess us up.
If we keep our passion forChrist and our understanding of
what he would do in thesituations we are in at the
forefront in our heart, I thinkwe're doing a better job of
setting that tone.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, and Dr Cole, when you oh go ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Well, part of integrity is also admitting your
mistakes.
So integrity doesn't mean we'reperfect or that we should even
try to be, because we're notgoing to be.
We should do our best.
Yeah, I believe integrity isbeing honest and recognizing
that you know, some of the bestleaders I've ever had are ones
that are quick to apologize andquick to admit when they've made
(09:26):
a mistake, because everyone cansee that we make mistakes.
But being willing to betransparent through that, I
think, is what's important andthat, to me, that's a higher
level of integrity than beingperfect.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah.
So ironically, dr Hall came andtalked to one of my on-ground
entrepreneurship classes and oneof the things that came up was
you know making mistakes and howyou learn from them and and how
you grow from them.
And my students are stilltalking about this was weeks ago
and my still my students arestill talking about.
No one's ever really said it'sgood to make mistakes and it is.
I mean, how else are you goingto learn?
(10:03):
But that comes with thatrequirement to have that
integrity to say, yeah, I messedthat up, but here's what I'm
going to do differently nexttime.
And I agree, I don't thinkseeking perfection is the right
thing.
I think seeking learning andbeing able to critically assess
what we've done in the past, todo it again if it was the right
(10:23):
thing and do it differently ifit wasn't and I loved watching
young people grab onto the factthat making mistakes was really
innovation innovation.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Wow, yeah, we talk a lot of that, about that, on this
podcast.
Just, you know, we learn morefrom our mistakes and failures
than we do from our successes.
So, yeah, I thank you for justyou know bringing that up here
in the context of I appreciatethat In the article you also
talked about following followthe golden rule, so let's talk a
(10:57):
little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So I smile when you say that, because often, when
I'm working with clients,they're under pressure for
something.
You know, something hashappened to make them think that
a consultant can fix it.
When in reality I think most ofthe times they have the perfect
talent within, they have theability within their own
organization to make.
I mean I'm glad that ownorganization to make.
I mean I'm glad that they cometo the outside, obviously, to
(11:21):
seek guidance.
But I think one of the thingsthat gets them stuck is that
they forget, as humans, thereare other humans that they're
working with and, honestly,people don't wake up in the
morning wanting to do bad thingsin the wrong way.
They wake up wanting to dothings that make a difference
and have an impact.
And if we can just remember that, if we treat them the way we
want it to be treated, it simplyjust makes the world a better
(11:45):
place to make mistakes.
And I love Dr Hall's statementabout you know we have to use
grace differently, we have toappreciate it and embrace it a
little bit differently asChristians.
And that is so true and it'snot easy.
I mean that comes withforgiveness of ourselves and of
others as well.
And I think that you know itreally is important for us to
(12:05):
understand we're people, they'repeople and we all have a way in
which we would prefer to betreated as opposed to just you
know naturally reacting to theway we thought we were treated.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, dr Hall, anything on following the golden
rule.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, it's funny because, you know, dr Campbell
and I are both business owners,but we're also, you know,
instructors, and you know wehave students who need grace a
lot and I've had students who,have, you know, really struggled
to get through classes orreally struggled to get through
school.
And they'll have, you know, somehave excuses and reasons that
(12:46):
you may or may not believe, butthere's often cases where these
are in fact a lot of ourstudents are actually working
and so they're in theprofessional world as well, and
their lives get messy sometimesand there's need sometimes for
grace, recognizing that whenthings go badly for people
(13:09):
whether it's personal life orbusiness life or family life
sometimes they need grace, andwe need to acknowledge that and
recognize that there are othertimes in our lives where we need
grace and we need people tobelieve in us and we need people
to treat us humanely insituations that are sometimes
(13:29):
very difficult.
And so I think we approach thisall the time and this is really
important for us to rememberthat we do want to treat people
the way that we expect to betreated and want to be treated
and treat them as children ofGod, and I think if we keep that
perspective in mind, I thinkwe're more willing to give that
(13:50):
grace when it's needed.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, I think your students are very lucky and your
employees are very lucky tohave you, that they have someone
, that when they feel the guiltor they need grace or they're
overwhelmed regret, they cancome to you.
I think there's many, I thinkof my friends and my leadership
groups and that's why we haveleader impacts.
(14:13):
We had no one right.
We need someone who will giveus that time and we have leader
impacts.
We have.
We had no one right.
We need someone who will, whowill give us that that time and
that just to listen.
So I don't know, when you'reconsulting and someone a leader
doesn't have someone, they cometo you as a consultant, but
where else are they going, youknow, and honestly I can say,
like, go to church, that's not,that's not if they've never been
(14:36):
to a church.
You know, I don't know what dowe tell our friends if they
don't have somebody who theytrust?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I think one of the things that trust grows out of
is action and behaviors, and soif there isn't any, there aren't
any behaviors or actions thatare happening in the workplace
that show you can trust andpeople aren't going to trust.
So there's nothing wrong withhaving a conversation, managing
up if you need to and Iencourage my employees and when
(15:08):
I was in the corporate world Idid the same thing.
I tried to have a voicemanaging up so that they can
understand who I was and what Icould bring, but doing it while
still being humble andprofessional.
And I do think we all needsomebody that we can talk to.
We were talking in my smallgroup at church over the weekend
(15:30):
about this.
It's a group of women who arein leadership roles and often
feel very lonely because they'rein this leadership role and
they don't really feel likethere's other folks that they
can talk to who are like-minded,and we came to the conclusion
that how do you know you don'thave somebody else to talk to?
Speaker 3 (15:47):
other than.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
God, of course, if you don't ask and I think that's
really important If you feellike you need someone to talk to
, there's nothing wrong withasking hey, can I bend your ear
for a minute and talk aboutsomething I'm struggling with?
Whether it's somebody you'vemet through LinkedIn, or a
church or another organization,the only way to build
(16:10):
relationship is to showrelationship.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I think also, especially in the business world
, it's really important to findyour tribe.
If you will, and you know, andfor some people it could be
joining a peer group, for othersit could be creating one, you
know, if you don't have, youknow, I've created a mind master
group years ago and where wejust like get together with
(16:34):
people, like-minded anddifferent fields sometimes, and
but all kind of CEO types ormanager types of folks and
people that I highly respectedand we just got together once a
month and to share it with eachother.
Something I'm struggling with,something I've learned,
something that I need help with,and it's amazing what comes out
(16:56):
of that.
If you just share with otherpeople, people generally want to
help each other and you canhave three or four people get
together and if everyone'svulnerable and willing to say,
well, this is what I'mstruggling with, everybody else
will pour into you and we justwe would leave those meetings
and send emails to each otherfor days saying this is like
amazing, like what I've, whatI've gained from that.
(17:17):
I do think we're designed to betogether and be with other
people, be with other believerssometimes, and so, whether
that's a church or or in a Biblestudy or some type of business
peer group.
Um, I think it's reallyimportant to to find that tribe
and if you don't have one tojoin, create one.
Yeah, that's my, that's myopinion one to join, create one.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, that's my opinion.
Yeah, during COVID, I createdan online group and invited
anyone in my province like, joinus, mostly just because of the
time change, right, becausewe're going to meet at seven in
the morning online and it wasamazing.
And it's believers andnon-believers, but there's
always a faith component andthey stay because we care about
each other.
Do you ever find that?
(17:59):
So your group is?
It are the leaders?
Did they ever know each other?
Cause, sometimes I think it's a.
It's actually almost better ifI don't know you and I don't you
know.
I know your industry, but Idon't have to know you to
support you and love you.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Well, I think those bonds happen If you don't
already know each other, whichoften is the start.
Once you start being vulnerablewith each other, those bonds
happen very quickly.
Dr Campbell and I are alsoinvolved in our college.
Within the university has ateam that all directors who meet
every Wednesday and we have aBible study together, and I
(18:34):
think we are closer as a groupbecause of it together, and I
think you know we are closer asa group because of it, and so I
think those weekly frequentmeetings of people is very
important and it clearly issomething that we're designed to
do because we get so much outof it and everyone feels every
time they leave that we've beenrefreshed because of it.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, Dr Campbell.
Any final thoughts before I goon to my next topic?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I think that community piece is just really
huge.
I often am surprised to realizeagain and again and again how
big our mission field is.
In business, I personallybelieve it's the largest mission
field on the planet.
We get the opportunity to showthrough our actions and our
behaviors what it is like to bea Christian and to approach the
(19:23):
world through a Christianworldview, and that community is
the only thing that keeps itgoing.
And you know, humbleness isreally important for us to get.
You know, show, as Dr Hall said, show our vulnerabilities so
that you know, when we'reworking with people, if they're
vulnerable too, they feel okaywith sharing.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
And Dr Hall, I appreciate that.
You just said you know, if youdon't have a group, find a group
.
Find something online.
Do your research.
There's lots of us out there,you know that's right.
Find a group, yeah, so Iappreciate that.
Dr Campbell, we talked a littlebit about just making those
ethical decisions.
Tell us where are you going.
(20:03):
You know I get it, but tell usa little bit more about that.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So I started very young in the corporate world and
got promoted very quickly.
I don't know what the reasonbehind that was.
I remember thinking are yousure, when I got promoted and I
didn't know how to makedecisions, I absolutely wasn't
sure what process to use, or youknow, and I was making
decisions that I felt were wellabove my age and my maturity,
(20:32):
and and so I started turning toscripture and for me that really
, really worked, and I do it tothis day.
You know, I made some prettybig mistakes before I started
doing that and and I realizedthat, you know, I've got to
figure out something different.
When I'm making decisions, Ican't be emotional.
I can't be.
You know, I've read all thebooks, I have a lot of education
(20:54):
.
All of that stuff was notnearly as important as rooting
myself in scripture, and so onceI started doing that, I felt
much more grounded in how I wasmaking my decisions, and I think
that's where the comments inthe article came from.
I think one of the questionswas have you ever made a
decision where you weren't quitesure about?
Yes, we all have, and yes, I'vemade mistakes, but I think I
(21:18):
feel much more confident when,at least on the ethical side of
things when I'm rooted inscripture as opposed to just
emotionally knee, emotionallyknee jerk reacting to making a
decision?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, Making those assumptions without talking to
anyone.
You know, Dr Hall, anything toadd on making ethical decisions?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, when I, you know, I taught at a public
university for several years andthe, you know, the topic of
ethics came up and I would askstudents you know what is, you
know how do you define ethics?
And you know one of the betterdecisions, one of the better um
comments that people orconclusions they come up with,
is doing the right thing when noone's watching, and and I think
(22:02):
that's a good definition ingeneral.
But we know, as believers, thatGod's always watching and so we
have it's not really no one'swatching.
We know that the behavior thatwe do matters and that you know
again, we're sinful, we're aptto make mistakes, but we know
(22:23):
that we are being watched and wealso know that we're called to
be ethical.
And so if you look at Psalm112.5, it says it is well with a
man who deals generously andwho conducts his favors with
justice or his affairs withjustice.
You can find countless versesdiscussing topics related to
(22:44):
being honest and being ethical.
And I think because of that, wehave this DNA strand that is
inside of us that makes us seekhonesty and seek ethical
behavior.
We don't get it right all thetime and I think there's so many
circumstances that you'll comeinto in your business world.
(23:05):
That some people may think isan ethical behavior and some
people may not think is anethical behavior.
There's almost a spectrum ofwhat we think is okay and what
we think is not okay and I thinkas we grow as business leaders,
we grow as Christians.
Some of those things evolve andchange in a positive way.
But I think that additionalstep of being a believer makes
(23:28):
us even want to be stronger inour belief system with relation
to honesty and integrity.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, I think one of the most important ethical
decisions we make as leaders iswho we hire, and it takes time
and it's hard to hire ethicallyand to hire the right people for
the right jobs.
It doesn't matter how manypeople that you have or what
their skills are, what theircapabilities are, if you're not
putting them in the right joband you're not truly
(23:55):
understanding the work thatneeds to be done, you can't make
as ethical decisions as youcould, and hiring ethically is a
really a huge challenge,because we want to fill that job
, we need people right.
And it's tough right now and Ithink sometimes we just go okay,
well, that's good enough.
Well, if we really stay true toour organizational values you
(24:18):
know, working for a Christianuniversity running a Christian
company we have to stop and takethe time to make that very
important ethical decision tohire the right people aligned
with our values of theorganization.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, I think of the person that's applying for the
job thinking I am the person forthe job, hire me, and maybe
they haven't really thoughtabout their own.
Is this really what you know?
Is this really what I want as aperson applying, because I know
that I can sell myself quitefine and convince you and
influence you that you shouldhire me but really is it the
(24:51):
right answer?
And so I appreciate that.
Just, you know, right from thevery beginning you talked about
understand your employees right,make those ethical decisions on
hiring them.
Dr Hall, earlier you talkedabout and I'm just going to
touch on just staying humble asChristian leaders.
Staying humble, what does thatlook like in the CEO of a
(25:16):
company, the senior leadershipteam, matt, what does it look
like to stay humble?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, it's obviously hard for many of us.
I mean many narcissistic peopleend up in leadership roles, and
I think part of being a good,effective leader is having
confidence.
And so having high confidencedoesn't mean you're not humble,
but I think often it could beconflated and maybe look
differently for some people.
(25:44):
I think part mostly for me inleadership it's recognizing and
demonstrating that the teamaround you is a significant part
of the success of theorganization and giving that,
giving the credit to those whodeserve it.
And you know, people will stayin companies for less pay if
(26:06):
they feel recognized.
And so when leaders on theopposite end of that, when
leaders take all the credit fora thing, for the success of the
company, and not for anythingthat goes wrong, I think that
chases people away.
It does chase people away, andso for me, being humble is not
(26:26):
lack of confidence.
It's recognizing number one,being willing to make those
mistakes and admitting to them.
But number two is recognizingand demonstrating that the
people around you are for whatthey're doing and for what
they're accomplishing, andgiving credit to them.
That makes them want to performeven better.
And so it's not someone whotakes credit for all the things
(26:49):
that go right and nothing thatgoes wrong.
And so I think, as a leader,I've seen myself evolve into
that and I've seen others.
The effective leaders surroundthemselves with strong people
and then gives credit to thosepeople, and quickly, and that's
very motivating for them.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, great comment, dr Campbell.
Anything to add?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, I think one of the most important things to do
as a leader is to celebrate thesuccess of your team and
champion their growth, even ifthey grow well beyond you.
I'm fortunate to be blessedwith a team that hasn't turned
over at all in almost 20 years,and I think that is because they
have been able to accomplishhuge successful things on their
(27:33):
own and then bring that back tothe team, and your team's
success is who you are.
It takes a village foreverything.
I always equate it to parenting.
I have four adult children andI remember having absolutely
zero clue what to do.
I mean, all parents go throughthat right, Especially when
they're teenagers.
We just kind of go okay, whatdo I do with that?
(27:55):
Well, if you're humble enoughand have the integrity to go to
your people and say I don't knowhow to do this, let's talk it
through and figure it outtogether.
It is so much stronger becauseeveryone's bought into it and
they want to be successful.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, we have to get over the embarrassment of not
knowing that I don't know whatto do, Like as a first time
parent who, you know, I didn'tknow what to do.
But I remember beingembarrassed thinking I'm just
going to, you know, I'm going todo this myself and that's not
the answer.
And I think people listening,we think we can do it ourselves
(28:30):
and we can't.
So I want to thank both of you.
I know there's so much more inthis article.
You guys have done a great jobcollaborating on this article.
I think you've made adifference to our listeners
today.
You've made an impact, andthat's what we're about at
Leader Impact.
I was looking forward to this.
We talk about leadership whatit looks like, but really deep
(28:52):
down, what are the principles ofa Christian leader?
So thank you for spending thetime with me today.
If anyone wants to find you,contact you, Dr Hall.
How can they find you or what'sthe best place?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Well, I mean, I'd love to be connected with you.
So LinkedIn is a good option.
You can look for Rick Hall atColorado Christian University.
You can also go to ccuedu, lookfor the faculty spotlights and
then you can find our emailaddresses there as well.
Happy to connect with anyone.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
That sounds fabulous, and Dr Campbell.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm at Lita Taylor Campbell on LinkedIn and also on
the CCU website.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
All right.
Well, again, thank you both forjust sharing this time with us.
It just makes me smile, and Ishow up every time just because
I need to be here.
I don't have all the answersyet either, so thank you All
right.
Well, I want to thank all ofour listeners for joining us
today.
If you're part of Leader Impact,you can always discuss or share
this podcast with your group.
And if you're not yet part ofLeader Impact and would like to
(29:50):
find out more, grow yourleadership.
Find our podcast page on ourwebsite at leaderimpactca and
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(30:11):
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Welcome to the Leader Impact Podcast.
We are a community of leaderswith a network in over 350
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(00:27):
Best way to stay connected inCanada is through our newsletter
at leaderimpactca or on socialat Leader Impact.
If you're listening fromoutside of Canada, check out our
website at leaderimpactcom.
I'm your host, lisa Peters, andour guests today are Dr Rick
Hall and Dr Lita Taylor-Campbell.
Dr Hall is a professor anddirector of business leadership
and healthcare administration atColorado Christian University.
(00:48):
He is a co-owner of a dietarysupplement company and website
publishing company.
His work has been published inthe Journal of Academy of
Nutrition and Dietetics, theJournal of Medical Internet
Research and the Asian WallStreet Journal and Better Homes
and Gardens.
We also welcome to the show DrCampbell, who is a professor and
director of human resources,public administration and
(01:09):
non-profit management atColorado Christian University.
She is the president andfounder of a national management
consulting company and runs astrategic learning and thinking
services non-profit.
Her work has been published inthe Journal of Human Resources
and the Journal ofOrganizational Behavior.
She has also presented andpublished for the Society of
Human Resource Management, theSmall Business Administration,
(01:31):
the Association of TalentDevelopment, the Small Business
Development Center and the ACBSPWomen's Leadership Summit.
Welcome to the show, dr Halland Dr Campbell.
It's nice to have you was ohwell, thank you.
I was very excited when I foundan article and uh on on the
(01:51):
website that on the coloradochristian university, and I just
thought I really want to talkto someone about this.
So I you know, I'm thankfulthat you guys joined me.
Um, you have, you have a greatuh, your introduction is amazing
and, and, dr Hall, I think I'vetold you my daughter is going
to be a registered dietitian andloves it and breathes it, so I
was very excited to touch basewith you.
(02:12):
Pre-meeting was by MichaelZigarelli and he talks about
Christian-owned businesses andin his book he talks about the
(02:34):
eight different ways thatbusinesses live out their faith
and he also talks about the 100best practices.
So I'm very excited to talk toyou guys about principles for
effective Christian businessleadership.
I think sometimes and I don'tknow if anyone can answer are
there ever any myths peoplethink about when we think about
Christian leaders and Christianbusiness leaders?
Do you guys ever hear any mythsof?
Oh yeah, you must be.
(02:56):
Is there ever anything likethat?
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So, as a consultant, I can tell you that I apologize
for my voice.
I have a cold.
But as a consultant, I can tellyou that I apologize for my
voice.
I have a cold.
But as a consultant, I can tellyou that many times when
organizations reach out and wantassistance, they're concerned
that a Christian might limittheir abilities to do all the
things.
I don't know where that comesfrom, but I work really hard to
quickly dispel thatunderstanding or that perception
(03:22):
, because it really actuallydoesn't have anything to do with
what we would recommend orsuggest or accept that.
It's rooted in some of theprinciples that we'll talk about
today.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, because we all really like the bottom line.
We do, dr Hall, any comments onany myths that you've?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
heard any myths that you've heard.
Well, I think there's anunderlying understanding or
belief that Christians haveeverything figured out, and I
think we put that on ourselvesas well, and the reality is we
are still human and we stillmake mistakes, we still are
sinful creatures, and so, aspart of the workforce, I think
(04:04):
that the exciting thing is thatwe have a blueprint or we have a
owner's manual to go to thatcan kind of steer us right.
But I think that's somethingthat I think of and hear of is
people feeling that at somereason, we are at a higher
standard or that we should havethings figured out already.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Yeah, and we don't Just saying Run my own business,
we don't.
So again, thank you.
I'm going to jump right inbecause we only have, you know,
say, 30 minutes.
But, dr Campbell, you talkabout, you have talked about
understanding your employees.
I want to talk a little bitabout that, because that is,
(04:43):
that's a principle, principlefor business.
I mean really, it's a principlefor everyone, right, right.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I truly believe that that's really where it all
starts, and I think it startseven before that.
You have to understand the workthat you're in business to do
and your mission and your valuesas an organization before you
can really understand youremployees, because you can't
hire correctly if you don't hirefor the right things, and so it
starts before that.
But it goes really deep, in myopinion.
I've seen it work very wellwhen you really understand your
(05:12):
employees to the point where youknow what they're interested in
and passionate about and whatthey'd like to grow into and
what kind of training they'dlike and what new things they'd
like to learn about, so that youcan really help them, take
inventory of what they want todo, so that they can really
reach you know for the best themthat they can be.
And that only comes fromunderstanding, which takes a lot
(05:33):
of time, and you know we're allbusy and it's hard sometimes.
I only have 23 employees, butthe clients that I work with
have multiple thousands ofemployees and it's really hard
to find the time, but I wouldargue that it's one of the most
the best spent time that you canhave is to get to really
understand your employees.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah, sometimes we definitely rush in to hiring and
go like we need an employeeversus, as you saying,
understanding.
Dr Hall, do you have anythingto add on to understanding your
employees?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think what's unique about us as Christian managers
is that we also have theunderstanding that these are
also God's children, you know,and that when we look at
employees and we look atpotential hires, we also
recognize that they were createdby God and that, you know.
I think we also look at gracedifferently when it comes to you
know.
Like I said, we all makemistakes and I think I'm hopeful
(06:33):
that Christian leaders have alittle bit deeper understanding
of what grace means, both in theworkforce and outside of the
workforce, when it relates toour employees as well.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Yeah, and I think, really helping finding our
employees, finding their calling, finding what they're really
good at, and understanding thattheir growth, they're moving
their passions along and I hopebut anything else to add on that
, and I definitely want to jumpin.
There's you guys, this articleis fantastic.
(07:03):
We'll reference it at the end.
But yeah, dr Hall, I definitelywant to jump in.
There's you guys, this articleis fantastic, we'll reference it
at the end.
But yeah, dr Hall, I know youtalked about focusing on
integrity and I, you know, tellus a little bit about that and
how you feel it's definitely.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, I feel like we, as Christian leaders, need to
hold ourselves to a higherstandard because, you know, at
the end of the day especially ifpeople know that we are
believers and I think thatintegrity is important for all
managers, all leaders.
But we, as Christian leaders,need to hold ourselves at a
higher standard and recognizingthat the role that we fill is
(07:41):
very fluid, but it's also very.
It demonstrates who we are asbelievers, as leaders, and if
our customers, if our employees,if our coworkers know that
we're believers, I think we needto hold ourselves to a higher
standard.
So I think integrity is reallyimportant for Christian leaders.
(08:02):
For that reason, yeah, For me.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
When I hear that and we hold ourselves to a higher
standard, the perfectionismseeks into me.
Dr Campbell, I can see younodding and then I want to be so
good.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Well, and I'm not I'm not so sure that that's just a
Christian thing.
I think, as a leader, we putthis, this burden, on ourselves.
If we want to be effective, wehave to understand that we're
setting the tone and you knowwe're setting the example and I,
for me, the place where I gofirst is always the Bible.
I go to scripture to understandwhy am I struggling with this
(08:42):
particular thing?
How come this is more difficultthan this other thing is?
But you're right, perfectionismcan really get in our head and
mess us up.
If we keep our passion forChrist and our understanding of
what he would do in thesituations we are in at the
forefront in our heart, I thinkwe're doing a better job of
setting that tone.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Yeah, and Dr Cole, when you oh go ahead.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Well, part of integrity is also admitting your
mistakes.
So integrity doesn't mean we'reperfect or that we should even
try to be, because we're notgoing to be.
We should do our best.
Yeah, I believe integrity isbeing honest and recognizing
that you know, some of the bestleaders I've ever had are ones
that are quick to apologize andquick to admit when they've made
(09:26):
a mistake, because everyone cansee that we make mistakes.
But being willing to betransparent through that, I
think, is what's important andthat, to me, that's a higher
level of integrity than beingperfect.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah.
So ironically, dr Hall came andtalked to one of my on-ground
entrepreneurship classes and oneof the things that came up was
you know making mistakes and howyou learn from them and and how
you grow from them.
And my students are stilltalking about this was weeks ago
and my still my students arestill talking about.
No one's ever really said it'sgood to make mistakes and it is.
I mean, how else are you goingto learn?
(10:03):
But that comes with thatrequirement to have that
integrity to say, yeah, I messedthat up, but here's what I'm
going to do differently nexttime.
And I agree, I don't thinkseeking perfection is the right
thing.
I think seeking learning andbeing able to critically assess
what we've done in the past, todo it again if it was the right
(10:23):
thing and do it differently ifit wasn't and I loved watching
young people grab onto the factthat making mistakes was really
innovation innovation.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Wow, yeah, we talk a lot of that, about that, on this
podcast.
Just, you know, we learn morefrom our mistakes and failures
than we do from our successes.
So, yeah, I thank you for justyou know bringing that up here
in the context of I appreciatethat In the article you also
talked about following followthe golden rule, so let's talk a
(10:57):
little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So I smile when you say that, because often, when
I'm working with clients,they're under pressure for
something.
You know, something hashappened to make them think that
a consultant can fix it.
When in reality I think most ofthe times they have the perfect
talent within, they have theability within their own
organization to make.
I mean I'm glad that ownorganization to make.
I mean I'm glad that they cometo the outside, obviously, to
(11:21):
seek guidance.
But I think one of the thingsthat gets them stuck is that
they forget, as humans, thereare other humans that they're
working with and, honestly,people don't wake up in the
morning wanting to do bad thingsin the wrong way.
They wake up wanting to dothings that make a difference
and have an impact.
And if we can just remember that, if we treat them the way we
want it to be treated, it simplyjust makes the world a better
(11:45):
place to make mistakes.
And I love Dr Hall's statementabout you know we have to use
grace differently, we have toappreciate it and embrace it a
little bit differently asChristians.
And that is so true and it'snot easy.
I mean that comes withforgiveness of ourselves and of
others as well.
And I think that you know itreally is important for us to
(12:05):
understand we're people, they'repeople and we all have a way in
which we would prefer to betreated as opposed to just you
know naturally reacting to theway we thought we were treated.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Yeah, dr Hall, anything on following the golden
rule.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, it's funny because, you know, dr Campbell
and I are both business owners,but we're also, you know,
instructors, and you know wehave students who need grace a
lot and I've had students who,have, you know, really struggled
to get through classes orreally struggled to get through
school.
And they'll have, you know, somehave excuses and reasons that
(12:46):
you may or may not believe, butthere's often cases where these
are in fact a lot of ourstudents are actually working
and so they're in theprofessional world as well, and
their lives get messy sometimesand there's need sometimes for
grace, recognizing that whenthings go badly for people
(13:09):
whether it's personal life orbusiness life or family life
sometimes they need grace, andwe need to acknowledge that and
recognize that there are othertimes in our lives where we need
grace and we need people tobelieve in us and we need people
to treat us humanely insituations that are sometimes
(13:29):
very difficult.
And so I think we approach thisall the time and this is really
important for us to rememberthat we do want to treat people
the way that we expect to betreated and want to be treated
and treat them as children ofGod, and I think if we keep that
perspective in mind, I thinkwe're more willing to give that
(13:50):
grace when it's needed.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, I think your students are very lucky and your
employees are very lucky tohave you, that they have someone
, that when they feel the guiltor they need grace or they're
overwhelmed regret, they cancome to you.
I think there's many, I thinkof my friends and my leadership
groups and that's why we haveleader impacts.
(14:13):
We had no one right.
We need someone who will giveus that time and we have leader
impacts.
We have.
We had no one right.
We need someone who will, whowill give us that that time and
that just to listen.
So I don't know, when you'reconsulting and someone a leader
doesn't have someone, they cometo you as a consultant, but
where else are they going, youknow, and honestly I can say,
like, go to church, that's not,that's not if they've never been
(14:36):
to a church.
You know, I don't know what dowe tell our friends if they
don't have somebody who theytrust?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I think one of the things that trust grows out of
is action and behaviors, and soif there isn't any, there aren't
any behaviors or actions thatare happening in the workplace
that show you can trust andpeople aren't going to trust.
So there's nothing wrong withhaving a conversation, managing
up if you need to and Iencourage my employees and when
(15:08):
I was in the corporate world Idid the same thing.
I tried to have a voicemanaging up so that they can
understand who I was and what Icould bring, but doing it while
still being humble andprofessional.
And I do think we all needsomebody that we can talk to.
We were talking in my smallgroup at church over the weekend
(15:30):
about this.
It's a group of women who arein leadership roles and often
feel very lonely because they'rein this leadership role and
they don't really feel likethere's other folks that they
can talk to who are like-minded,and we came to the conclusion
that how do you know you don'thave somebody else to talk to?
Speaker 3 (15:47):
other than.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
God, of course, if you don't ask and I think that's
really important If you feellike you need someone to talk to
, there's nothing wrong withasking hey, can I bend your ear
for a minute and talk aboutsomething I'm struggling with?
Whether it's somebody you'vemet through LinkedIn, or a
church or another organization,the only way to build
(16:10):
relationship is to showrelationship.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I think also, especially in the business world
, it's really important to findyour tribe.
If you will, and you know, andfor some people it could be
joining a peer group, for othersit could be creating one, you
know, if you don't have, youknow, I've created a mind master
group years ago and where wejust like get together with
(16:34):
people, like-minded anddifferent fields sometimes, and
but all kind of CEO types ormanager types of folks and
people that I highly respectedand we just got together once a
month and to share it with eachother.
Something I'm struggling with,something I've learned,
something that I need help with,and it's amazing what comes out
(16:56):
of that.
If you just share with otherpeople, people generally want to
help each other and you canhave three or four people get
together and if everyone'svulnerable and willing to say,
well, this is what I'mstruggling with, everybody else
will pour into you and we justwe would leave those meetings
and send emails to each otherfor days saying this is like
amazing, like what I've, whatI've gained from that.
(17:17):
I do think we're designed to betogether and be with other
people, be with other believerssometimes, and so, whether
that's a church or or in a Biblestudy or some type of business
peer group.
Um, I think it's reallyimportant to to find that tribe
and if you don't have one tojoin, create one.
Yeah, that's my, that's myopinion one to join, create one.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah, that's my opinion.
Yeah, during COVID, I createdan online group and invited
anyone in my province like, joinus, mostly just because of the
time change, right, becausewe're going to meet at seven in
the morning online and it wasamazing.
And it's believers andnon-believers, but there's
always a faith component andthey stay because we care about
each other.
Do you ever find that?
(17:59):
So your group is?
It are the leaders?
Did they ever know each other?
Cause, sometimes I think it's a.
It's actually almost better ifI don't know you and I don't you
know.
I know your industry, but Idon't have to know you to
support you and love you.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Well, I think those bonds happen If you don't
already know each other, whichoften is the start.
Once you start being vulnerablewith each other, those bonds
happen very quickly.
Dr Campbell and I are alsoinvolved in our college.
Within the university has ateam that all directors who meet
every Wednesday and we have aBible study together, and I
(18:34):
think we are closer as a groupbecause of it together, and I
think you know we are closer asa group because of it, and so I
think those weekly frequentmeetings of people is very
important and it clearly issomething that we're designed to
do because we get so much outof it and everyone feels every
time they leave that we've beenrefreshed because of it.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, Dr Campbell.
Any final thoughts before I goon to my next topic?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
I think that community piece is just really
huge.
I often am surprised to realizeagain and again and again how
big our mission field is.
In business, I personallybelieve it's the largest mission
field on the planet.
We get the opportunity to showthrough our actions and our
behaviors what it is like to bea Christian and to approach the
(19:23):
world through a Christianworldview, and that community is
the only thing that keeps itgoing.
And you know, humbleness isreally important for us to get.
You know, show, as Dr Hall said, show our vulnerabilities so
that you know, when we'reworking with people, if they're
vulnerable too, they feel okaywith sharing.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
And Dr Hall, I appreciate that.
You just said you know, if youdon't have a group, find a group
.
Find something online.
Do your research.
There's lots of us out there,you know that's right.
Find a group, yeah, so Iappreciate that.
Dr Campbell, we talked a littlebit about just making those
ethical decisions.
Tell us where are you going.
(20:03):
You know I get it, but tell usa little bit more about that.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
So I started very young in the corporate world and
got promoted very quickly.
I don't know what the reasonbehind that was.
I remember thinking are yousure, when I got promoted and I
didn't know how to makedecisions, I absolutely wasn't
sure what process to use, or youknow, and I was making
decisions that I felt were wellabove my age and my maturity,
(20:32):
and and so I started turning toscripture and for me that really
, really worked, and I do it tothis day.
You know, I made some prettybig mistakes before I started
doing that and and I realizedthat, you know, I've got to
figure out something different.
When I'm making decisions, Ican't be emotional.
I can't be.
You know, I've read all thebooks, I have a lot of education
(20:54):
.
All of that stuff was notnearly as important as rooting
myself in scripture, and so onceI started doing that, I felt
much more grounded in how I wasmaking my decisions, and I think
that's where the comments inthe article came from.
I think one of the questionswas have you ever made a
decision where you weren't quitesure about?
Yes, we all have, and yes, I'vemade mistakes, but I think I
(21:18):
feel much more confident when,at least on the ethical side of
things when I'm rooted inscripture as opposed to just
emotionally knee, emotionallyknee jerk reacting to making a
decision?
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, Making those assumptions without talking to
anyone.
You know, Dr Hall, anything toadd on making ethical decisions?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, when I, you know, I taught at a public
university for several years andthe, you know, the topic of
ethics came up and I would askstudents you know what is, you
know how do you define ethics?
And you know one of the betterdecisions, one of the better um
comments that people orconclusions they come up with,
is doing the right thing when noone's watching, and and I think
(22:02):
that's a good definition ingeneral.
But we know, as believers, thatGod's always watching and so we
have it's not really no one'swatching.
We know that the behavior thatwe do matters and that you know
again, we're sinful, we're aptto make mistakes, but we know
(22:23):
that we are being watched and wealso know that we're called to
be ethical.
And so if you look at Psalm112.5, it says it is well with a
man who deals generously andwho conducts his favors with
justice or his affairs withjustice.
You can find countless versesdiscussing topics related to
(22:44):
being honest and being ethical.
And I think because of that, wehave this DNA strand that is
inside of us that makes us seekhonesty and seek ethical
behavior.
We don't get it right all thetime and I think there's so many
circumstances that you'll comeinto in your business world.
(23:05):
That some people may think isan ethical behavior and some
people may not think is anethical behavior.
There's almost a spectrum ofwhat we think is okay and what
we think is not okay and I thinkas we grow as business leaders,
we grow as Christians.
Some of those things evolve andchange in a positive way.
But I think that additionalstep of being a believer makes
(23:28):
us even want to be stronger inour belief system with relation
to honesty and integrity.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, I think one of the most important ethical
decisions we make as leaders iswho we hire, and it takes time
and it's hard to hire ethicallyand to hire the right people for
the right jobs.
It doesn't matter how manypeople that you have or what
their skills are, what theircapabilities are, if you're not
putting them in the right joband you're not truly
(23:55):
understanding the work thatneeds to be done, you can't make
as ethical decisions as youcould, and hiring ethically is a
really a huge challenge,because we want to fill that job
, we need people right.
And it's tough right now and Ithink sometimes we just go okay,
well, that's good enough.
Well, if we really stay true toour organizational values you
(24:18):
know, working for a Christianuniversity running a Christian
company we have to stop and takethe time to make that very
important ethical decision tohire the right people aligned
with our values of theorganization.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, I think of the person that's applying for the
job thinking I am the person forthe job, hire me, and maybe
they haven't really thoughtabout their own.
Is this really what you know?
Is this really what I want as aperson applying, because I know
that I can sell myself quitefine and convince you and
influence you that you shouldhire me but really is it the
(24:51):
right answer?
And so I appreciate that.
Just, you know, right from thevery beginning you talked about
understand your employees right,make those ethical decisions on
hiring them.
Dr Hall, earlier you talkedabout and I'm just going to
touch on just staying humble asChristian leaders.
Staying humble, what does thatlook like in the CEO of a
(25:16):
company, the senior leadershipteam, matt, what does it look
like to stay humble?
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Well, it's obviously hard for many of us.
I mean many narcissistic peopleend up in leadership roles, and
I think part of being a good,effective leader is having
confidence.
And so having high confidencedoesn't mean you're not humble,
but I think often it could beconflated and maybe look
differently for some people.
(25:44):
I think part mostly for me inleadership it's recognizing and
demonstrating that the teamaround you is a significant part
of the success of theorganization and giving that,
giving the credit to those whodeserve it.
And you know, people will stayin companies for less pay if
(26:06):
they feel recognized.
And so when leaders on theopposite end of that, when
leaders take all the credit fora thing, for the success of the
company, and not for anythingthat goes wrong, I think that
chases people away.
It does chase people away, andso for me, being humble is not
(26:26):
lack of confidence.
It's recognizing number one,being willing to make those
mistakes and admitting to them.
But number two is recognizingand demonstrating that the
people around you are for whatthey're doing and for what
they're accomplishing, andgiving credit to them.
That makes them want to performeven better.
And so it's not someone whotakes credit for all the things
(26:49):
that go right and nothing thatgoes wrong.
And so I think, as a leader,I've seen myself evolve into
that and I've seen others.
The effective leaders surroundthemselves with strong people
and then gives credit to thosepeople, and quickly, and that's
very motivating for them.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yeah, great comment, dr Campbell.
Anything to add?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, I think one of the most important things to do
as a leader is to celebrate thesuccess of your team and
champion their growth, even ifthey grow well beyond you.
I'm fortunate to be blessedwith a team that hasn't turned
over at all in almost 20 years,and I think that is because they
have been able to accomplishhuge successful things on their
(27:33):
own and then bring that back tothe team, and your team's
success is who you are.
It takes a village foreverything.
I always equate it to parenting.
I have four adult children andI remember having absolutely
zero clue what to do.
I mean, all parents go throughthat right, Especially when
they're teenagers.
We just kind of go okay, whatdo I do with that?
(27:55):
Well, if you're humble enoughand have the integrity to go to
your people and say I don't knowhow to do this, let's talk it
through and figure it outtogether.
It is so much stronger becauseeveryone's bought into it and
they want to be successful.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, we have to get over the embarrassment of not
knowing that I don't know whatto do, Like as a first time
parent who, you know, I didn'tknow what to do.
But I remember beingembarrassed thinking I'm just
going to, you know, I'm going todo this myself and that's not
the answer.
And I think people listening,we think we can do it ourselves
(28:30):
and we can't.
So I want to thank both of you.
I know there's so much more inthis article.
You guys have done a great jobcollaborating on this article.
I think you've made adifference to our listeners
today.
You've made an impact, andthat's what we're about at
Leader Impact.
I was looking forward to this.
We talk about leadership whatit looks like, but really deep
(28:52):
down, what are the principles ofa Christian leader?
So thank you for spending thetime with me today.
If anyone wants to find you,contact you, Dr Hall.
How can they find you or what'sthe best place?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Well, I mean, I'd love to be connected with you.
So LinkedIn is a good option.
You can look for Rick Hall atColorado Christian University.
You can also go to ccuedu, lookfor the faculty spotlights and
then you can find our emailaddresses there as well.
Happy to connect with anyone.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
That sounds fabulous, and Dr Campbell.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm at Lita Taylor Campbell on LinkedIn and also on
the CCU website.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
All right.
Well, again, thank you both forjust sharing this time with us.
It just makes me smile, and Ishow up every time just because
I need to be here.
I don't have all the answersyet either, so thank you All
right.
Well, I want to thank all ofour listeners for joining us
today.
If you're part of Leader Impact,you can always discuss or share
this podcast with your group.
And if you're not yet part ofLeader Impact and would like to
(29:50):
find out more, grow yourleadership.
Find our podcast page on ourwebsite at leaderimpactca and
check out our free leadershipassessment.
You can also check out groupsavailable in Canada at
leaderimpactca.
Or, if you're listening fromanywhere else in the world,
check out leaderimpactca.
Or if you're listening fromanywhere else in the world,
check out leaderimpactcom.
Or get in touch with us byemail info at leaderimpactca and
we will connect you.
(30:11):
And if you like this podcast,please leave us a comment, give
us a rating or review.
This will help other globalleaders find our podcast.
Thank you for engaging with usand remember impact starts with
you.
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