July 21, 2025 • 16 mins
Inside the 2025 State of Customer Loyalty Report: Part 2 | CEO’s Desk with Mark Johnson
Welcome back to The CEO’s Desk with Loyalty360 CEO Mark Johnson! In Part 2 of our deep dive into the 2025 State of Customer Loyalty Report, we explore how brands are operationalizing loyalty, building internal alignment, and translating strategy into measurable business impact.
What’s behind the drop in personalization as a strategic priority—even as it's still the top area of program enhancement?
Why are more brands reporting enterprise-level insights and improved engagement metrics?
Is the growing confidence in loyalty programs justified, or is it the result of confirmation bias?
In this episode, we unpack:
🔹 Why brands are prioritizing fewer loyalty objectives and focusing on execution
🔹 The growing importance of tech stack optimization and data orchestration
🔹 How brands are using loyalty as a performance engine—not just a marketing tool
🔹 The increase in loyalty team sizes and internal Centers of Excellence
🔹 Predictions on where personalization, partnerships, and innovation are heading by 2026
As loyalty programs evolve from add-ons to strategic assets, tune in to hear how brands are setting new benchmarks for impact, insight, and integration.
📌 Missed Part 1? Watch it now to explore foundational trends and shifting executive mindsets
🔗 Download the full 2025 State of Customer Loyalty Report at Loyalty360.org
👉 Subscribe for expert takes and actionable strategies from today’s loyalty leaders
#CustomerLoyalty #LoyaltyPrograms #Loyalty360 #CustomerEngagement #CXStrategy #MarketingTrends #Personalization #DataStrategy #LoyaltyTech #CEOInsights
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hello everyone and welcome back to Leaders in
Customer Loyalty, the CEO's Desk.
This is part two of our episodecovering the State of Customer
Loyalty 2025 statistics.
If you haven't listened to partone, make sure you go back and
check it out.
There's all kinds of goodinformation from our report.
Just to remind you, we had over90 brand marketers respond to
(00:29):
our survey this year and we'reexamining how the stats and the
trends from 2024 have changed in2025.
And we're here again, as always, with Loyalty360 CEO Mark
Johnson.
Welcome back, mark.
Glad to have you here to talkabout this stuff today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Looking forward to the discussion.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, so when we look at the overall brand priorities
, personalization as a strategicgoal dropped a bit from 73% in
2024 to 56% in 2025, despite itbeing the top enhancement.
How do you explain the tensionbetween that and do you think
there's a disconnect betweentactical execution and the
(01:10):
long-term strategic vision whenit comes to personalization?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, as we mentioned in the last time we got
together part one there's kindof an operational focus right
now on a number of the programs.
Last year, I think it was 79%of the brands were either going
to enhance, redo or augmenttheir customer loyalty program.
It's kind of contracted alittle bit and I think even the
(01:36):
number of priorities brandschecked I think last year was
three and a half, it was justunder three.
So I think they are checkingless priorities, trying to be a
little more tactical and maybefocused in regard to what
they're focusing on.
But again, I think they have anumber of new programs.
Many brands have launched newprograms or launched new
(01:59):
personalization efforts.
Because it is in vogue, right,hyper-personalization was the
word that we heard last yearpretty significantly and I'm
sure you guys remember from whenDon Smith talked about you know
he was awaitinghyper-personalization in 2024
and it never really happened.
So I think brands are kind oftrying to simplify, get that
organizational alignment and,you know, make sure that the
(02:21):
programs, processes andapproaches they have are working
.
Especially right now Budgetsare tighter.
We hear that prettyconsistently as we talk to
brands.
So you know, how do youoperationalize the program to
drive some increased efficacyand efficiency in what you
currently have.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, definitely, and I mean one of the other
interesting things we saw from.
You know, when we're looking athow the strategic plans have
changed.
Communications was a top fivepriority in 2024, but it fell
off on the 2025 report.
Meanwhile, understanding newtechnologies and deeper customer
insights have moved up the listof strategic priorities.
(03:01):
Do you think that those aresigns of brands turning inward
and trying to strengthen theirfoundations of data collection
and tech and insight before theygo and try and re-engage
externally or scale theirprograms?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I think there's a big focus right now on kind of
marketing efficacy, contentefficacy, right.
So making sure that the contentyou have being focused on
zero-party data gamification now.
So having more data does notnecessarily mean you have better
communications, right, whetherit's from the right marketing
message you're writing to in theright tone, the right channel,
(03:37):
the right voice.
But brands are really focusedon making sure that what they're
putting out is engaged in thecustomer.
So does that mean simplifyingthe message, emailing them less.
Do you have kind of anopportunity to understand what
they should have an interest in?
Sending you a message regardingpool cleaning and or
(03:59):
hospitality services is going toresonate with you Sending me
something regarding fitness orsomething for my kids regarding
their sports, that's going toresonate as well.
So more is not always better, aswe know, kind of the whole
paradox of choice.
So I think brands are trying toget the right data, the right
technology to operationalizeagain around the data, from
marketing orchestration tohaving the right CDP, sort of
(04:21):
getting personal, identifiableinformation on a customer that
they can action on.
I think that that's the focusright now, and so maybe doing
less but making sure that thosemessages are, you know, are
targeted a little bit.
So communications, and alsocommunications, falls under a
larger rubric right ofpersonalization, of digital
engagement, real experience.
So I think that you know we seekind of a drop in all the
(04:43):
categories, but I think brandswant to make sure the
communications they have goingout are as effective as possible
.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Definitely.
And that leads us to our nextsegment here, which is on brands
and how they're measuring theireffectiveness and the impact of
their programs.
We saw in the State of CustomerLoyalty report that 84% of
brands say that their programsare effective or very effective,
and that number is holdingsteady from last year.
But when we dig deeper, theconfidence is actually growing
(05:13):
and we can see year over yearyou know customer growth.
People who reported that thatjumped up 11 points.
People who you know reportedeffective engagement rose six
points.
We've seen incremental valueand financial spend across
successful programs as well.
What do you think changed?
And are brands finally seeingtheir strategies translate into
(05:35):
more measurable outcomes?
Is there a reason for that?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, again, the whole idea of operationalizing
the program still continues hereas well, and I think there's a
little bit of a confirmationbias here too that people that
respond to this are usuallymembers of Lowell 360.
And you know they may have kindof a greater sense of
organizational alignment and youknow they may have that buy-in
(06:00):
as we talked about last time aswell.
It's very important.
So members of Lilithi360award-winning brands are
probably comprising more of thissurvey than usual.
So I think that's a big pieceof it, but that they are having
confidence in the program, theyare able to make mistakes, they
are leveraging the righttechnology and making sure the
(06:22):
technology kind of does whatit's meant to do.
Oftentimes, brands bring onplatforms that may not truly fit
within their environment right,and one of the things we talked
about last week a little bit,and we've talked about as well,
is brands.
Instead of redoing their wholestack, they may be focused on
the kind of the weak link in thestack right now.
So if you have a limited amountof resources you can spend, if
(06:44):
your market orchestration pieceisn't working, or if your data
lake isn't working, or if yourCDP isn't working, let's replace
that.
So brands are.
You know we continue to hearfrom them that they're focused
on understanding the tech stackfrom a comprehensive perspective
but identifying that weak link.
So if you can change the weaklink that may bring some
efficacy kind of throughout thewhole customer lifestyle, the
(07:07):
journey and in reporting andjust overall the effectiveness
of the program Definitely, andwe also saw an increase in the
number of brands who are sayingthat their programs are
delivering enterprise levelinsights.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
That rose from 48% to 54%.
Do you think that that'sprobably a result of more of
that operationalizing, and is ita sign that loyalty is becoming
a more valuable data engine forthe business, or at least maybe
other executives are waking upto that fact?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I think that's a big piece of it.
Right, we've talked about thatleaning in that we heard about
at the conference, we continueto hear about now.
Brands have 6 million members,10 million members.
They're truly leaning into them, giving them the special offers
and being able to kind of growthat data set they have on them.
But you know, often, and overthe last year, especially this
year metrics they're being askedfor to substantiate the impact
(08:04):
of the program are becoming moreimportant and also more clearly
defined.
So I think there's trying toalign what the goals of the
program.
You know, oftentimes we hearthat CFO thinks this is.
You know we're giving awaymargin.
Right, these people are goingto make that purchase regardless
.
So having the right metrics,being able to kind of leverage
(08:24):
them, is very important.
And again, just having theability to substantiate to the
CFO, to the auditor, theefficacy of the program and
that's growing prettysignificantly is, I think, a big
piece of that.
They know the data points thatthey're being asked for is, I
think, a big piece of that.
They know the data points thatthey're being asked for, so
they're bringing them forth in away that can substantiate the
(08:45):
program.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, that's awesome, and that probably contributes
to the fact that 52% of brandsare saying that they consider
their programs superior orsignificantly superior to
competitors in their industries.
Do you think that, you know?
Is this confidence justified?
Is it some of that confirmationbias?
Do you think that there's a gapbetween the perception and the
performance that people shouldbe wary of, or is the you know?
Are they correct in feelingstrong and confident in their
(09:11):
programs?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
No, that's another one too that has definitely
grown over the last few years.
I think we've done this yearthis study three years now.
One too that had definitelygrown over the last few years.
I think we've done this yearthis study three years now, and
the first year there wasn't thatkind of significant kind of
confidence, but it's definitelygrown.
I think a little bit that'sconfirmation bias, again being
able to dial into the rightmetrics.
But you know, traditionally 23and before, many brands had that
(09:36):
inferiority, complex right.
They felt that they were theorganizations with better teams,
it was funded better, they hadthe right resource allocation
where now it seems to definitelyflip Again, a lot of the people
that take these areaward-winning programs, people
who are members of Volte360.
So we may be selecting kind ofa more successful and kind of
(09:58):
confident group.
But if you look backholistically on the reports that
we've had going back to 22 andbeyond, we ask this question
quite often, or some iterationof it, and it is definitely
swung pretty, pretty stronglyfrom that inferior or
significantly inferior to thecomplete other side or
significantly inferior to thecomplete other side.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah Well, another sign that we've seen that people
have confidence and areinvesting is that the loyalty
team sizes are growing at brands.
29% of the brands reported thatthey increased the number of
people on their customer loyaltyteam in the last year.
Do you think that that suggeststhat loyalty is finally getting
the resources it needs, or doyou think there's still a talent
(10:40):
gap there that needs to befilled?
Is that a barrier for brands?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, there definitely is still a little bit
of a talent gap successionplanning but there are resources
out there from differentuniversities having training
programs, but I think brands aremore focused on kind of
training internally around theprogram.
Hopefully some of the brandsthat we have that have the
(11:05):
resources from.
You know, our university andthe digital roundtables we hold
on a weekly basis really helpkind of share best practices
across verticals.
But you know, again, brands arelooking to add to their teams
and there's also a big push toofrom all kind of not something
onshoring, but if you had alarge technology provider that
(11:28):
did staff augmentation, you hadtwo or three or four resources
there.
They really didn't count themas part of the loyalty team
originally right.
Count them as part of theloyalty team originally right.
But now if they brought over oneresource or two resources, or
if they had five resources, youknow, at one of the technology
partners or consultants, and nowthose have all been brought
in-house.
You're seeing that kind of.
That kind of is represented inthat number as well.
(11:50):
They're definitely bringing itin-house.
You know, before COVID therewas a push to building out
centers of excellence.
So how do you get?
Customer loyalty is somethingthat is a focus in the
organization.
It kind of was tempered alittle bit going through COVID
and coming out, but now againbrands, as we've talked about,
leaning into customer loyalty,building out centers of
excellence internally that cantruly help them leverage the
(12:13):
data, operationalize the programand drive the metrics that are
needed.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Thank you, yeah, and you know, it's really an
exciting time to be part of thecustomer loyalty industry and
seeing all these shifts happenand this growing confidence and
the understanding of you knowfolks that may, you know, at an
organizational level have beenresistant or thought about
loyalty as a liability, Nowunderstanding where it really is
(12:37):
an asset to them Absolutely.
So, as we kind of like start tolook ahead from all of these
things, you know, during thislike time of transformation in
the loyalty world, if we keepseeing these kind of shifts year
over year, where do you thinkwe'll be when we talk about this
report a year from now?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, it's definitely a very dynamic time within the
industry.
You know, earlier today we weretalking about some of the
shopping bots and opportunitiesthat are out there.
But this focus on customerloyalty I think it's kind of the
clarion call that we see.
It's operationalizing theprogram, focus on the program,
socializing the programinternally.
The brands that are doing wellhave this distinct advantage
(13:17):
from the fact that the programis valued, it's understood and
they know now that instead ofmaybe focusing on non-members,
really focus on the program.
How do we talk about theprogram?
How do we consistently talk andtrain around the program?
So I think training is becominga big piece as well.
Many brands are looking for thatnext generation customer
(13:38):
loyalty program.
They've had version one or twoand they're looking to kind of
redo that.
So I think that from aqualitative perspective the
number of calls I've had overthe last even couple days many
brands are looking about nextgen.
But again, this focus on theoperationalizing, understanding
how it's viewed in the program,addressing within the
organization and how to makesure that you can have the most
(14:02):
advantageous perspective andaddress any inconsistencies you
have, that focus oninternal-external alignment is a
big push.
But I think another thing is.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Brands are starting to look at what next generation
is Totally so is there aspecific trend from this year
that you think will gain themost ground by 2026?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I don't know if there's a specific, you know, I
think, circumnavigation or kindof surreptitiously.
I think that thepersonalization piece, I think
it is going to kind of come outas one of those trends maybe
that we see more out of rightBecause they're focusing on
getting more out of the program,out of the customers, focusing
on customers.
So the brands realize that theyhave to make sure that they're
(14:48):
engaging, listening to,understanding, providing the
right content, products,services and their offerings.
So I think, kind of in aroundabout manner, you're going
to see personalization as one ofthe ones that kind of jumps up
at the end of the year that youask brands in kind of retrospect
that they truly focused on orareas that they may have felt or
do feel that they had the mostsuccess in.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Totally Well.
So do you think that there'sone area, that where you expect
to see a drop off?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I think kind of new reward offerings,
partnerships are probably thetwo areas.
Partnerships may be the biggestone, because partnerships right
now the fact that they areobviously more custom, more
tailored to the brand and theparticipants in the program if
you have one, two, three, fourprograms, they take a little a
brand, should I say, in theprogram.
(15:36):
They take a little while longerto substantiate an ROI, to
prove out an ROI, versus kind ofmass affiliate programs.
So I think that brands want tomake sure they get them right
and so I think partnerships kindof will probably drop off a
little bit I think this yearbecause economic uncertainty,
finding willing participants inkind of a new partnership are
(15:58):
going to be challenging andthere's been a lot of partnering
up over the last couple ofyears.
So I think that's one.
I think, if you look backretrospectively, the kind of
focus on partnerships, rollingout new partnerships, will drop
pretty significantly in thelatter part of this year and
going into next year.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Oh, that's really interesting.
Well, I think that that'swrapping it up.
Thank you so much, mark.
You know it's always great toget your perspective.
You're the only one in theindustry who's hearing from all
of these brands directly andlooking at the data, and so we
really appreciate that you takethe time to give insights.
If you haven't checked out theState of Customer Loyalty Report
, make sure you visitloyalty360.org.
(16:34):
Download the report.
It's full of great stats.
We have a lot of comparisonyear over year.
You can dive in.
Make sure you go back and checkout part one, if you haven't
already, of this CEO's Deskpodcast, and we will see you
next time.
Thanks everyone.
Hello everyone and welcome back to Leaders in
Customer Loyalty, the CEO's Desk.
This is part two of our episodecovering the State of Customer
Loyalty 2025 statistics.
If you haven't listened to partone, make sure you go back and
check it out.
There's all kinds of goodinformation from our report.
Just to remind you, we had over90 brand marketers respond to
(00:29):
our survey this year and we'reexamining how the stats and the
trends from 2024 have changed in2025.
And we're here again, as always, with Loyalty360 CEO Mark
Johnson.
Welcome back, mark.
Glad to have you here to talkabout this stuff today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Looking forward to the discussion.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, so when we look at the overall brand priorities
, personalization as a strategicgoal dropped a bit from 73% in
2024 to 56% in 2025, despite itbeing the top enhancement.
How do you explain the tensionbetween that and do you think
there's a disconnect betweentactical execution and the
(01:10):
long-term strategic vision whenit comes to personalization?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Yeah, as we mentioned in the last time we got
together part one there's kindof an operational focus right
now on a number of the programs.
Last year, I think it was 79%of the brands were either going
to enhance, redo or augmenttheir customer loyalty program.
It's kind of contracted alittle bit and I think even the
(01:36):
number of priorities brandschecked I think last year was
three and a half, it was justunder three.
So I think they are checkingless priorities, trying to be a
little more tactical and maybefocused in regard to what
they're focusing on.
But again, I think they have anumber of new programs.
Many brands have launched newprograms or launched new
(01:59):
personalization efforts.
Because it is in vogue, right,hyper-personalization was the
word that we heard last yearpretty significantly and I'm
sure you guys remember from whenDon Smith talked about you know
he was awaitinghyper-personalization in 2024
and it never really happened.
So I think brands are kind oftrying to simplify, get that
organizational alignment and,you know, make sure that the
(02:21):
programs, processes andapproaches they have are working
.
Especially right now Budgetsare tighter.
We hear that prettyconsistently as we talk to
brands.
So you know, how do youoperationalize the program to
drive some increased efficacyand efficiency in what you
currently have.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, definitely, and I mean one of the other
interesting things we saw from.
You know, when we're looking athow the strategic plans have
changed.
Communications was a top fivepriority in 2024, but it fell
off on the 2025 report.
Meanwhile, understanding newtechnologies and deeper customer
insights have moved up the listof strategic priorities.
(03:01):
Do you think that those aresigns of brands turning inward
and trying to strengthen theirfoundations of data collection
and tech and insight before theygo and try and re-engage
externally or scale theirprograms?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I think there's a big focus right now on kind of
marketing efficacy, contentefficacy, right.
So making sure that the contentyou have being focused on
zero-party data gamification now.
So having more data does notnecessarily mean you have better
communications, right, whetherit's from the right marketing
message you're writing to in theright tone, the right channel,
(03:37):
the right voice.
But brands are really focusedon making sure that what they're
putting out is engaged in thecustomer.
So does that mean simplifyingthe message, emailing them less.
Do you have kind of anopportunity to understand what
they should have an interest in?
Sending you a message regardingpool cleaning and or
(03:59):
hospitality services is going toresonate with you Sending me
something regarding fitness orsomething for my kids regarding
their sports, that's going toresonate as well.
So more is not always better, aswe know, kind of the whole
paradox of choice.
So I think brands are trying toget the right data, the right
technology to operationalizeagain around the data, from
marketing orchestration tohaving the right CDP, sort of
(04:21):
getting personal, identifiableinformation on a customer that
they can action on.
I think that that's the focusright now, and so maybe doing
less but making sure that thosemessages are, you know, are
targeted a little bit.
So communications, and alsocommunications, falls under a
larger rubric right ofpersonalization, of digital
engagement, real experience.
So I think that you know we seekind of a drop in all the
(04:43):
categories, but I think brandswant to make sure the
communications they have goingout are as effective as possible
.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Definitely.
And that leads us to our nextsegment here, which is on brands
and how they're measuring theireffectiveness and the impact of
their programs.
We saw in the State of CustomerLoyalty report that 84% of
brands say that their programsare effective or very effective,
and that number is holdingsteady from last year.
But when we dig deeper, theconfidence is actually growing
(05:13):
and we can see year over yearyou know customer growth.
People who reported that thatjumped up 11 points.
People who you know reportedeffective engagement rose six
points.
We've seen incremental valueand financial spend across
successful programs as well.
What do you think changed?
And are brands finally seeingtheir strategies translate into
(05:35):
more measurable outcomes?
Is there a reason for that?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Yeah, again, the whole idea of operationalizing
the program still continues hereas well, and I think there's a
little bit of a confirmationbias here too that people that
respond to this are usuallymembers of Lowell 360.
And you know they may have kindof a greater sense of
organizational alignment and youknow they may have that buy-in
(06:00):
as we talked about last time aswell.
It's very important.
So members of Lilithi360award-winning brands are
probably comprising more of thissurvey than usual.
So I think that's a big pieceof it, but that they are having
confidence in the program, theyare able to make mistakes, they
are leveraging the righttechnology and making sure the
(06:22):
technology kind of does whatit's meant to do.
Oftentimes, brands bring onplatforms that may not truly fit
within their environment right,and one of the things we talked
about last week a little bit,and we've talked about as well,
is brands.
Instead of redoing their wholestack, they may be focused on
the kind of the weak link in thestack right now.
So if you have a limited amountof resources you can spend, if
(06:44):
your market orchestration pieceisn't working, or if your data
lake isn't working, or if yourCDP isn't working, let's replace
that.
So brands are.
You know we continue to hearfrom them that they're focused
on understanding the tech stackfrom a comprehensive perspective
but identifying that weak link.
So if you can change the weaklink that may bring some
efficacy kind of throughout thewhole customer lifestyle, the
(07:07):
journey and in reporting andjust overall the effectiveness
of the program Definitely, andwe also saw an increase in the
number of brands who are sayingthat their programs are
delivering enterprise levelinsights.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
That rose from 48% to 54%.
Do you think that that'sprobably a result of more of
that operationalizing, and is ita sign that loyalty is becoming
a more valuable data engine forthe business, or at least maybe
other executives are waking upto that fact?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, I think that's a big piece of it.
Right, we've talked about thatleaning in that we heard about
at the conference, we continueto hear about now.
Brands have 6 million members,10 million members.
They're truly leaning into them, giving them the special offers
and being able to kind of growthat data set they have on them.
But you know, often, and overthe last year, especially this
year metrics they're being askedfor to substantiate the impact
(08:04):
of the program are becoming moreimportant and also more clearly
defined.
So I think there's trying toalign what the goals of the
program.
You know, oftentimes we hearthat CFO thinks this is.
You know we're giving awaymargin.
Right, these people are goingto make that purchase regardless
.
So having the right metrics,being able to kind of leverage
(08:24):
them, is very important.
And again, just having theability to substantiate to the
CFO, to the auditor, theefficacy of the program and
that's growing prettysignificantly is, I think, a big
piece of that.
They know the data points thatthey're being asked for is, I
think, a big piece of that.
They know the data points thatthey're being asked for, so
they're bringing them forth in away that can substantiate the
(08:45):
program.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, that's awesome, and that probably contributes
to the fact that 52% of brandsare saying that they consider
their programs superior orsignificantly superior to
competitors in their industries.
Do you think that, you know?
Is this confidence justified?
Is it some of that confirmationbias?
Do you think that there's a gapbetween the perception and the
performance that people shouldbe wary of, or is the you know?
Are they correct in feelingstrong and confident in their
(09:11):
programs?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
No, that's another one too that has definitely
grown over the last few years.
I think we've done this yearthis study three years now.
One too that had definitelygrown over the last few years.
I think we've done this yearthis study three years now, and
the first year there wasn't thatkind of significant kind of
confidence, but it's definitelygrown.
I think a little bit that'sconfirmation bias, again being
able to dial into the rightmetrics.
But you know, traditionally 23and before, many brands had that
(09:36):
inferiority, complex right.
They felt that they were theorganizations with better teams,
it was funded better, they hadthe right resource allocation
where now it seems to definitelyflip Again, a lot of the people
that take these areaward-winning programs, people
who are members of Volte360.
So we may be selecting kind ofa more successful and kind of
(09:58):
confident group.
But if you look backholistically on the reports that
we've had going back to 22 andbeyond, we ask this question
quite often, or some iterationof it, and it is definitely
swung pretty, pretty stronglyfrom that inferior or
significantly inferior to thecomplete other side or
significantly inferior to thecomplete other side.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah Well, another sign that we've seen that people
have confidence and areinvesting is that the loyalty
team sizes are growing at brands.
29% of the brands reported thatthey increased the number of
people on their customer loyaltyteam in the last year.
Do you think that that suggeststhat loyalty is finally getting
the resources it needs, or doyou think there's still a talent
(10:40):
gap there that needs to befilled?
Is that a barrier for brands?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah, there definitely is still a little bit
of a talent gap successionplanning but there are resources
out there from differentuniversities having training
programs, but I think brands aremore focused on kind of
training internally around theprogram.
Hopefully some of the brandsthat we have that have the
(11:05):
resources from.
You know, our university andthe digital roundtables we hold
on a weekly basis really helpkind of share best practices
across verticals.
But you know, again, brands arelooking to add to their teams
and there's also a big push toofrom all kind of not something
onshoring, but if you had alarge technology provider that
(11:28):
did staff augmentation, you hadtwo or three or four resources
there.
They really didn't count themas part of the loyalty team
originally right.
Count them as part of theloyalty team originally right.
But now if they brought over oneresource or two resources, or
if they had five resources, youknow, at one of the technology
partners or consultants, and nowthose have all been brought
in-house.
You're seeing that kind of.
That kind of is represented inthat number as well.
(11:50):
They're definitely bringing itin-house.
You know, before COVID therewas a push to building out
centers of excellence.
So how do you get?
Customer loyalty is somethingthat is a focus in the
organization.
It kind of was tempered alittle bit going through COVID
and coming out, but now againbrands, as we've talked about,
leaning into customer loyalty,building out centers of
excellence internally that cantruly help them leverage the
(12:13):
data, operationalize the programand drive the metrics that are
needed.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Thank you, yeah, and you know, it's really an
exciting time to be part of thecustomer loyalty industry and
seeing all these shifts happenand this growing confidence and
the understanding of you knowfolks that may, you know, at an
organizational level have beenresistant or thought about
loyalty as a liability, Nowunderstanding where it really is
(12:37):
an asset to them Absolutely.
So, as we kind of like start tolook ahead from all of these
things, you know, during thislike time of transformation in
the loyalty world, if we keepseeing these kind of shifts year
over year, where do you thinkwe'll be when we talk about this
report a year from now?
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, it's definitely a very dynamic time within the
industry.
You know, earlier today we weretalking about some of the
shopping bots and opportunitiesthat are out there.
But this focus on customerloyalty I think it's kind of the
clarion call that we see.
It's operationalizing theprogram, focus on the program,
socializing the programinternally.
The brands that are doing wellhave this distinct advantage
(13:17):
from the fact that the programis valued, it's understood and
they know now that instead ofmaybe focusing on non-members,
really focus on the program.
How do we talk about theprogram?
How do we consistently talk andtrain around the program?
So I think training is becominga big piece as well.
Many brands are looking for thatnext generation customer
(13:38):
loyalty program.
They've had version one or twoand they're looking to kind of
redo that.
So I think that from aqualitative perspective the
number of calls I've had overthe last even couple days many
brands are looking about nextgen.
But again, this focus on theoperationalizing, understanding
how it's viewed in the program,addressing within the
organization and how to makesure that you can have the most
(14:02):
advantageous perspective andaddress any inconsistencies you
have, that focus oninternal-external alignment is a
big push.
But I think another thing is.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Brands are starting to look at what next generation
is Totally so is there aspecific trend from this year
that you think will gain themost ground by 2026?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I don't know if there's a specific, you know, I
think, circumnavigation or kindof surreptitiously.
I think that thepersonalization piece, I think
it is going to kind of come outas one of those trends maybe
that we see more out of rightBecause they're focusing on
getting more out of the program,out of the customers, focusing
on customers.
So the brands realize that theyhave to make sure that they're
(14:48):
engaging, listening to,understanding, providing the
right content, products,services and their offerings.
So I think, kind of in aroundabout manner, you're going
to see personalization as one ofthe ones that kind of jumps up
at the end of the year that youask brands in kind of retrospect
that they truly focused on orareas that they may have felt or
do feel that they had the mostsuccess in.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Totally Well.
So do you think that there'sone area, that where you expect
to see a drop off?
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, I think kind of new reward offerings,
partnerships are probably thetwo areas.
Partnerships may be the biggestone, because partnerships right
now the fact that they areobviously more custom, more
tailored to the brand and theparticipants in the program if
you have one, two, three, fourprograms, they take a little a
brand, should I say, in theprogram.
(15:36):
They take a little while longerto substantiate an ROI, to
prove out an ROI, versus kind ofmass affiliate programs.
So I think that brands want tomake sure they get them right
and so I think partnerships kindof will probably drop off a
little bit I think this yearbecause economic uncertainty,
finding willing participants inkind of a new partnership are
(15:58):
going to be challenging andthere's been a lot of partnering
up over the last couple ofyears.
So I think that's one.
I think, if you look backretrospectively, the kind of
focus on partnerships, rollingout new partnerships, will drop
pretty significantly in thelatter part of this year and
going into next year.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Oh, that's really interesting.
Well, I think that that'swrapping it up.
Thank you so much, mark.
You know it's always great toget your perspective.
You're the only one in theindustry who's hearing from all
of these brands directly andlooking at the data, and so we
really appreciate that you takethe time to give insights.
If you haven't checked out theState of Customer Loyalty Report
, make sure you visitloyalty360.org.
(16:34):
Download the report.
It's full of great stats.
We have a lot of comparisonyear over year.
You can dive in.
Make sure you go back and checkout part one, if you haven't
already, of this CEO's Deskpodcast, and we will see you
next time.
Thanks everyone.
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