April 19, 2025 • 37 mins
In this Executive Spotlight, Loyalty360 CEO Mark Johnson speaks with Ryan Draude, Head of Loyalty Offer Management and Shopper Marketing at Giant Food. Draude shares his forward-thinking perspectives on building loyalty in a highly competitive and increasingly value-driven grocery market. With experience spanning financial services, hospitality, and retail, Draude brings a rich, cross-vertical understanding to loyalty program leadership. He discusses how Giant Food is differentiating through service excellence, deep customer engagement, proactive fraud prevention, and a sharp focus on creating meaningful connections beyond transactions. Draude also offers personal reflections on leadership, mentorship, and paying it forward, highlighting the human side of loyalty strategy in today's dynamic environment. Read the excerpt below and listen to the entire interview on the Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Good afternoon, good morning.
This is Mark Johnson fromLoyalty360.
I hope everyone's happy, safeand well.
I wanted to welcome you back toour new interview series, the
Loyalty360 Executive SpotlightSeries, which is part of our
Leaders in Customer LoyaltySeries.
In this series, we featureconversations with some of the
most influential minds drivingsuccess within the most esteemed
(00:25):
customer loyalty programs inthe market, all of whom are
members of Loyalty360.
Today, we have the pleasure ofspeaking with Ryan Drade.
He's the head of loyalty atGiant Food.
He's one of the smartest in thebusiness and I consider him a
great friend.
Ryan, how are you today?
Thank you for taking time tojoin us.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Mr Johnson, always a pleasure, good to see you again
Doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's great to speak with you as well.
Always great to connect withyou because you're always on the
cutting edge of loyalty and orfraud.
You're always doing some coolthings.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I prefer to be on one than the other, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, it's good.
First off, for those who maynot be familiar, can you give us
a little background on yourfocus at Giant Food, and maybe a
little bit more Giant Food aswell?
That'd be great to know too.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, not a problem, and thanks again for
having me on here.
It's always a pleasure toconnect.
So I head up loyalty offermanagement and shopper marketing
at Giant Food.
For folks that may not befamiliar, giant Food is a
regional full-service grocerystore located in the
Mid-Atlantic.
We have 164 stores spread outbetween Maryland, northern
Virginia, delaware and DC andwe're the market leader in our
(01:34):
area for grocery sales.
So we are the number onegrocery provider in what's
called the Mid-Atlantic or theDMV area May not be familiar
with Giant, but probablyfamiliar with some of our other
sister brands, like Food, lionand Stop and Shop and
Hannaford's up in Maine.
But we're part of the largerAhold Delhaize business.
Ahold Delhaize is a Dutchmultinational retail and holding
(01:55):
company.
They have 16 total globalgrocery brands, mostly in Europe
, but they're actually inIndonesia as well.
As I mentioned.
We have our other partners upand down the eastern seaboard
and when you bring all of ustogether in one pot, aholdelhe
is actually the third largestpure play grocery retailer in
the United States.
So if you look at my role, youknow I just like to keep it
(02:18):
simple, mark, and just avoid alot of the unnecessary corporate
word salad.
My role is driving long-termrelationships with the customers
and through the idea that if wecan push incremental sales, if
we can retain sales over time bylinking it back to a reward
program and a loyalty strategyand in the process try to
establish something above andbeyond a transactional
(02:40):
relationship with our customers,then we're doing it right.
I think those are the threefoundational pillars of whether
I keep my job or not Growingsales, retaining sales and
trying to build a connection ina very competitive grocery
environment.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Excellent.
It's a very unique time to bein customer loyalty, grocery
especially.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, groceryespecially.
Our expectations are evolvingfairly rapidly.
Yeah, and I have a great dealof respect for what you do at
Giant Food, but when you look atthese evolving needs, how are
(03:15):
you working to meet the evolvingneeds and expectations of
today's customers?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I got to be honest.
I've worked in loyalty forquite some time in hospitality,
different retail, drugstores,financial services, grocery
Definitely the most competitiveindustry I've worked within from
a loyalty point of view, theamount of competitors involved,
coupled with a customer basethat's very comfortable shopping
around.
They're not the most monogamousof shopping.
(03:42):
It's more promiscuous, I liketo say, and that gets a lot of
chuckles.
But I say it in the sense thatwithin grocery, people shop
across a variety of grocerychains on average, you think of
like the typical airline or thehotel program.
Once they get someone lockeddown, those people are like a
United person or a Marriottperson.
You know for life.
It's really more monogamous,you know, so to speak.
(04:03):
But grocery can be verydifficult for someone to just
have one main provider.
Think about, you know, drivingto work and going home and
stopping by someplace that'sconvenient on the way home, you
know, or not having a certaincategory in the store and
needing to go somewhere else.
It's just it's spread outacross so many different
locations.
And what we found is that afterCOVID broke and went away, we
(04:27):
went from basically being ableto do nothing wrong to sometimes
I feel like we can't doanything right.
When COVID happened, everyoneis at home, no one went to the
office.
You're afraid to go to anywherebut one grocery store, and so
in that regard it was like aone-stop shop and we and many
other grocers did very well inthat situation.
But so they weren't spreadingthe love around.
(04:47):
But now that post-COVID has comeabout, people back out in the
world, they're going torestaurants, they're back in the
workplace, they're not afraidof shopping around.
And then you couple that withthe current economic condition,
the value focus that is justbigger than ever before.
Folks are really thinking abouttheir basket in total, and it
often means making multiplestops to be able to do what they
(05:10):
want to do.
And so any good loyalty programtakes a step back and they say,
well, what's so special aboutus?
And it goes back to kind of anMBA approach where they say
you're either the low-costprovider or you do something
special, and we're not thelow-cost provider.
So we have to figure out how dowe stay special and do
something above and beyond,because in this world there's a
(05:32):
lot of the loyalty sea ofsameness, so to speak, and a lot
of the benefits that have cometo be.
So we tried to do somethingdifferent, mark and effective.
(05:53):
About two years ago, when thevalue focus really started
beginning, we flipped theloyalty model and started to
look at how do we get peoplewith a minimum amount of spend
involved in engaging withrewards.
You think of, typically, mostprograms.
They're for the power users,they're for the elites, the
platinums, the diamonds, theyget all the good stuff.
But we said, hey, if people areshopping around, how do we give
them maybe just something youknow very easily, so that when
they're shopping each week theyknow if I go to Giant, I'm going
(06:15):
to get something for free?
And in our case, we linked aprogram allowing the redemption
of a minimum of points, like 5,10, 15 points, to things like
milk and eggs and produce, wherethey know if they came to us
they would get something forfree each week.
Produce where they know if theycame to us they would get
something for free each week.
And that program became verysuccessful and is a model of
what, a lot of what we're tryingto do now, which is value, you
know, really focused on valueand ensuring that every customer
(06:35):
can get something from theprogram.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Absolutely, and then your program does a great job of
doing that right.
It's won numerous awards, uh,very focused on, you know,
understanding the customer.
But that whole value equationis very important and, as you
mentioned, it's, uh, one of thetop topics we hear right now
from from our, our community,right, and it can mean different
things if you can value in theprogram, customers having value
(06:59):
in the program but also does the, the brand itself find value in
the program?
And and I think you've done agreat job, not only making the
program relevant and actionableand interesting to the customers
, but you've also done a greatjob of socializing the program
internally to be, you know, it'sa champion for everything that
Giant Food wants to do for thecustomers.
(07:23):
But those internally see valueand they understand the
importance and impact of theprogram and you've done a lot to
champion that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, I appreciate that.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Absolutely so.
When you look at customerexperience, you know, in your
opinion, what is the singlebiggest factor that influences a
great customer experience.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, you know and you know it may surprise you,
mark, because it may falloutside of you know what a
loyalty program manager shouldsay, but I'll tell you what I've
seen and what I think thereality truly is.
It's service.
At the end of the day, it'sphenomenal service that is given
to customers and that can beexpressed by that interaction
(08:03):
personally in the store, ifthere is a physical presence.
It can be expressed by thatinteraction personally in the
store.
If there is a physical presence, it can be a very short
experience online, minimalglitches, uh.
It's a very short wait on thephone to connect with a customer
service rep and a very qualityexperience.
But I found, more than pointsanything else, that the greatest
value that we can give to thecustomers is respecting their
time, uh, but also treating themlike human beings and being
(08:27):
incredibly good to them.
Now, that being said, I don'tthink that we're consistently
good at it, and I think that,for a company, trying to figure
out what is our identity,service is something that I
think a lot of companies areafraid to take on, because it's
easier to throw money at thingslike points and rewards and even
discounting a product by 10cents a week.
It takes a long time to build aservice culture.
(08:50):
Look at Chick-fil-A, look atUSAA companies that said you
know what?
We're going to be the best attreating our customers like gold
.
And I think that if you havethat type of model, customers
will get through higher prices,they'll get through out of
stocks, they'll get through arange of products or a range of
problems because they love howthey're treated and, admittedly,
(09:12):
I'm really chasing that to seehow can we put that type of
framework within Giant as adifferentiator and, like I said,
it's not easy, it takes a longtime, but that, to me, is the
single biggest factor istreating people well.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Now I think you're absolutely right and the
employee is part of that right.
Make sure the employee is happy, the employees bought in and
also the brand itself.
And I think one of the biggestchallenges that we're kind of
going away from that but serviceyou have to be able to say I'm
sorry, right If something messedup.
If something's wrong, thebrand's going to say you know,
(09:46):
I'm sorry, we'll make it right,versus ah, it wasn't us, it was
you right.
So, and I think that anotherthing you do very well and
you're building that into yourprogramming processes is being
accountable for what you guys do, and it's always great to hear
you know how you approach thatas well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, and Mark, just on that front real quick.
You know, for other loyaltymanagers there's a way that they
can link to the program.
I think one of the greatestthings I do every week is I get
our customer service logs and Igo through and I look at the
issues of you know where thefrustrations are that people are
having, and I take a handful ofthem and I call them back, you
know, or write them an email andsay let's talk.
You know, let's get on the phone.
I'd love to hear what happened.
(10:21):
But the first thing I say isI'm sorry and you own it and
you're willing to admit we canbe better and we need to be
better to keep your business.
And the response to that isphenomenal because people they
just want to be heard and thefact that you're willing to
connect, that you want to ownthe issue, that you want to make
it better.
I think from a loyaltyperspective, any good loyalty
(10:43):
director, manager, vicepresident, should be talking to
their customers on a weeklybasis.
You don't want to bedisconnected in the ivory tower.
You need to know what's goingon in the trenches and I would
say I think it's a greatopportunity to really understand
and connect.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Absolutely Speaking of ivory towers.
The next question what's onepassion that you enjoy outside
of work, something youthoroughly enjoy doing?
I know the answer, but yeah,you do.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
We've been talking for a long time now.
Yeah, it is teaching, mark.
You know I really love myability to be an adjunct
professor.
When you've let me speak at theLoyalty360 events, one of the
things I always do is my PSA atthe start of my presentation to
tell everyone, you know, pay itforward.
There's so much incredibleexperience in the audience.
Go back to the campus, you know.
Share your war stories with thenext generation, because it's
(11:34):
really important that they canlink theory with practice.
You know, so to speak, and youknow so many corporate
professionals, you know, havelearned so much.
They see what really happens inthe field.
So many corporate professionals, you know, have learned so much
.
They see what really happens inthe field, but they don't give
that back to.
You know the next generation,you know who really need to
understand about.
You know what really happensand you know to talk about
things like courage andleadership and failure.
(11:55):
You know stress.
We owe it to them to equip themwith.
You know what they need tosucceed in the future world.
I talk about my dad a lot andhe's definitely my hero.
He was a three-time combatveteran in Vietnam and then also
in Desert Storm.
But one of his disappointmentsbefore Vietnam was all the prior
veterans from World War II andKorea, these guys that faced
(12:16):
hard combat.
They didn't go back to theacademies and to the young
soldiers and prepare them by andlarge for going into combat.
You know all the things.
They could have told them tosay it's okay to be scared, you
know these things are going tohappen, don't worry, you can do
it.
And when my dad rose to become abrigadier general in the Marine
Corps, one of his primaryobligations was to tell young
troops you know what to expectand to make sure they're ready
(12:38):
to face the challenge.
And so I'm not trying to equatemy experience in the corporate
world to anything he or otherveterans have done, but I think
we can do similar to preparethat next generation to say hey,
let us tell you what you're infor, let us prepare you to lead.
You know to let people go, howyou treat people well and how
you can invest in their futures.
(13:00):
And teaching has given me atremendous opportunity to not
only teach loyalty strategy butto really invest in what I feel
are the future leaders as well.
Excellent.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And how do you get involved in teaching?
How did that come to be?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, you know, I think one of the best things
that you can do is go back tothe school where you came from
if you have that opportunity.
For me, I went to Georgetownfor my MBA.
It was a wonderful opportunity,but after I left, there was
like this voice inside my head,mark, um, that was telling me
give back.
You know, it really was amagical experience while you
were there.
And so, you know, I had myeducation, I had my career at
(13:35):
that point, but I realized howfortunate I was to have several
professors that really helped mesee what my path could be.
Um, I didn't know what I wantedto be when I went to get my MBA
.
I just knew it was somethingthat I should do.
But I came out really focusedon analytical marketing and
saying this is what I want, andso I'm so grateful for the
(13:56):
professors that pointed me inthat direction.
So, in my case, I kept in goodcontact with those folks at
Georgetown and I reached out.
You know, and that's probablythe hardest part is just
reaching out to begin with andsaying, hey, I'd love to come in
and do some guest lecturing.
You know, there's some stuffthat I'm, you know, well-versed
on in my career at this pointand, trust me, marketing
professors love when you cancome in and talk about something
(14:17):
.
It gives them the chance totake the time off to have
someone who's active in thefield talk to them about a
relevant topic, and so to havethose subject matter experts is
usually well received and itgives you the chance to really
say, hey, do I like this?
Does it feel good?
Do I like preparing for it, theQ&A that goes along with it,
and after doing that a few times, I was hooked and at that point
(14:37):
I built a curriculum, asyllabus for loyalty strategy,
brought it back to Georgetown,they made me try a class out,
hour and a half class in frontof professors, and I took them
through my deck and my point ofview and they said, all right,
you're on, and that was back in2019.
And we've been doing it eversince and it's just a wonderful
(14:58):
opportunity to correct and staycurrent in what we do.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Okay, excellent, Great.
Yeah.
Your passion for that isobviously something to be very
proud of.
You do a great job on that.
Thank you Well, next questionCan you tell us a little bit
about your family and how yourfamily kind of drives your
passion in work and in otherareas?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, you could definitely call me the odd man
out, mark.
My entire family served ineither the Marine Corps or the
Navy.
My entire family served ineither the Marine Corps or the
Navy.
My father, as I said, was ageneral.
My mom was a Marine officerearlier in her career, my older
sister was that first wave offemale combat aviators flying
the F-18 back in the 90s, youknow, and all the stuff that she
had to deal with to break it,break on through.
(15:39):
And then my brother, my olderbrother, was a naval
intelligence officer.
So me, you know people, whatthey always say is well, what,
what happened to you, you know?
And uh, I tell them why Icouldn't even get a commission
in the salvation army, you know.
But, uh, that gets a fewchuckles, but, um, the idea was
I didn't feel that calling thatthey did.
Uh, they knew, they knew theywanted to serve, they knew they
(16:01):
wanted to go into the, to themilitary, and I just didn't have
that, you know, in my life andI didn't want to take it away
from someone who wanted it morethan anything, because my last
name was the same one as that ofa general.
It wouldn't have been fair.
So there's some.
Sometimes I look back and say,yeah, you know, should I have
done so or not?
You know, and that's somethingI dwell on at times there, but
(16:21):
it just wasn't.
It wasn't my path.
And I think a lot of folks getworried about what is my path.
And so many folks want to havethis calling when they're young,
when they're going to college,even when they're coming out to
say I know what I want to do,and they beat themselves up so
much when they don't know whatit is.
But guess what?
(16:42):
I was that guy too.
You know that guy who trieddifferent jobs.
I tried a little bit of this, alittle bit of that, and I
learned what I liked, what Ididn't like, until that time
where I went back and got my MBA.
Like I said, I was 30 years oldat the time, so I was out in
the working world for a goodeight, nine years before I
figured out what I wanted to dowhen I grow up.
(17:03):
So it's one of the things Ijust want to remind folks is
it's good to try things, it'sgood to figure out what you like
and, more importantly, what youdon't like, but don't beat
yourself up, you know, becauseit does come to you as you keep
trying.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Excellent.
What was your first job aftercollege?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, I worked at a nightclub all during college,
you know.
So that helped out to give mesome money coming out of school.
But then, after I graduatedfrom my undergrad actually I
moved to San Diego for thebetter part of a year.
I surfed, I painted, did modernart and I drank wine.
My parents were so disappointedin me.
I got to be honest.
(17:40):
They're like you got thiseducation and you're out there
screwing around.
Then the money ran out and Irealized I had to get serious.
So, um, I came back to the eastcoast and I worked for a big
national telecom selling prepaidphone cards.
I mark, I don't know you oldenough to remember pre prepaid
phone cards yes, I do rememberthem a little bit.
Yes, but you know, before yourcell phone could call anywhere
(18:02):
in the world, you had to go downto the store and buy this card
and scratch off the pin and andit costs like a buck 50 a minute
.
You know to call anywhere inthe world, but I was selling
those to different likeconvenience stores and bodegas
and you know different spots.
But that was my first real kindof grown up job after college.
Okay, excellent.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
For those who may not know, you have a pretty diverse
history in customer loyaltyright Different verticals.
Can you talk about working inthe different verticals and how
it's been helpful or potentiallychallenging regarding kind of
how you look at customer loyalty?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I've been somewhat of a restless soul,
I'll say Building programsserving customers across a
variety of industries.
My background I work at CapitalOne and Sallie Mae so I did
loyalty and financial services.
I did Choice Hotels so I didthe whole hospitality thing.
I was briefly at Rite Aid andled their loyalty program there,
and then in this grocery worldhere with Giant and also was on
(18:59):
the other side of the tabledoing consulting with Amex,
united Airlines, marriott.
So I've seen a lot of differentverticals.
I usually I make the movesbecause I like the challenge and
I always feel like it's theright time to move on once you
build something significant andthen you feel there's something
else.
You know that is a greaterchallenge.
I was never that guy that waswilling to, I think, you know,
(19:21):
be at a company for 20, 30, 40years and I respect those folks
tremendously.
But I always wanted tochallenge myself with something
new, you know, and just you kindof learn a new model, you know,
start with the, with the manualand try to work it through.
And so in that regard, you know, making the move each time was
always a challenge but alwaysgave me a chance to see loyalty
from a different lens, you know,in terms of how the customers,
(19:43):
the technology, the competitiveenvironment.
So in that regard, I've enjoyedthe challenges.
As I mentioned when we firsttalked, grocery has definitely
been the biggest challenge I'veseen.
It is such a complex,competitive world so they are
keeping me very busy here, but Ireally do love the challenges
that we have in this market aswell.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Absolutely, and I think that your diverse
background from Choice andothers is giving you a kind of a
unique perspective and beingable to solve some problems.
Yeah, and one of the areas thatyou've done amazing work in and
it's always great to hear youtalk about is fraud, program
fraud, gaming, how you look atit right, and I think a lot of
that history is kind of based onsome things you may have seen
(20:24):
in the travel industry.
A lot of that history is kindof based on some things you may
have seen in the travel industry.
How did you become so focusedon fraud and employee gaming?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And you know what drives you there.
Yeah, I think the reality thatany loyalty manager needs to
very quickly accept is thatwherever there is value, there's
an opportunity for it to bestolen.
There is value, there's anopportunity for it to be stolen,
and that attracts some of thesmartest, most motivated
(20:54):
criminals that you're ever goingto run across.
And one of the other things youneed to realize is that they're
smarter than you.
They're 100% dedicated toripping you off, while at best,
with the teams that you have,maybe 5% of your time is spent
looking at fraud In addition toall the other things you need to
do.
These people are hell bent onemptying your bank account and
they win a lot.
(21:15):
So, without getting into toomany details, what I found in
both hotels and in grocery was,if you pay very close attention
to the data and you are verycurious, you will find things
that take a kind of a secondopinion or a double take to say
how can people spending solittle redeem so much?
You know, why are these pointsleaving accounts?
(21:37):
Why are there so manyredemptions in parts of the
world that don't make sense, youknow, and a lot of folks might
just say, eh, it's not makingthat much of a financial
difference.
I'm just going to look atsomething else.
But you know the ones thatreallyicate working against us
and another brand to takeliterally hundreds of thousands
(22:09):
and then millions of dollars invalue, and they were staying
beneath the surface, but theyfinally made some mistakes in
terms of showing some datapatterns that we caught and we
didn't let go.
And it took us months on end tobe able to go back and forth and
figure out ways to actuallybeat it, and even bringing in
third parties, they couldn'tfigure it out half the time.
So you know, my main aspecthere is that it's a reality.
(22:31):
They're smart, they're going tobeat you a lot of the time, but
stay curious.
We sit on an ocean of data andif you really want to go down
that path, you should to protectyour program.
But you know, the further yougo down, you will find things
that are concerning that makeyou realize that there's often
bigger problems to be looked at.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
That's interesting.
That's great.
Yeah, when you look at yourcareer success, what are a
couple things you're most proudof?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, a couple things I'd say from an achievement
point of view.
I was lucky.
I worked for Sally May at apoint in time actually, when I
came out of Georgetown and I wasin direct marketing and what I
found very quickly was listeningto customers and this whole
idea of shutting up andlistening that I like to talk
about.
I would go to the contactcenters, I would just listen,
(23:20):
listen, listen, listen, becauseanyone that holds a student loan
automatically hates you as alender.
That's just the reality of thesituation.
So there was a lot of animositytowards Sally Mae, but I was
trying to understand.
You know, why are these peopleso upset?
And what I figured out veryquickly by listening was they
signed a lot of papers for fouryears, them or their parents and
then that bill comes six monthslater and says surprise, you
(23:40):
owe us $1,500 a month.
And they look at that and say Ihad no idea what the hell I was
getting into and what adisservice and tragedy it is to
start life on that path.
And so I was.
At the same time, I was gettinga mortgage on a home and I was
saying, well, if I borrow X,that's fine, but really what's
the monthly payment that I needto worry about and does my
income work against it?
And I had this eureka momentwhere I was like, well, what if
(24:02):
we did the same thing in studentlending, where we said, okay,
let's estimate four years oflending and what your mom and
dad might put in, or thescholarships, et cetera, and
what's left to be done from aloan point of view, we'll put
that in and estimate the monthlypayment for your entire
education.
Specific to the schools, you'relooking at real costs and so
that way, if someone was lookingat George Mason, george
(24:23):
Washington, washington andGeorgetown, they could see three
very different price pointswhat they're studying and maybe
say is this the right move?
You know, am I equipped to takethis on with what I'm studying
and what I feel I'm going to do?
And it pushes that informationforward.
So I was able to get a patentfor creating that algorithm and
that whole process.
(24:43):
But what I'm really proud of isthe fact that we helped people.
We saw them materially changeand motivate behavior, and
that's really where I think Igot the loyalty bug mark.
You know, was building thatrelationship with folks over
time.
You know, building thatlong-term relationship.
I would say, above and beyondthat achievement.
The greatest thing at thispoint in my career is seeing the
younger folks that I'veinvested in, tutored, mentored,
(25:05):
led, now becoming directors, youknow, and higher level folks in
an organization and seeingtheir growth, you know, and how
good it felt to build theloyalty foundation with them and
then seeing them take their ownskills, you know and abilities
and just build these beautifulcareers.
And it's wonderful to see themgrow over time as well.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Excellent when you look back.
If you could go back in timeand maybe change one thing about
your life, what would that beand why?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I wish I had started traveling a lot earlier.
You know, I waited till, youknow, into my 20s, even into my
30s, you know, and I realizedwhat a joy it is to see the
world and the fact that thememories stay with you forever.
You know, stuff is great andit's nice to have fun stuff, but
stuff comes and goes.
But the idea of being able tothink back to a time in
(25:55):
Barcelona 10 years ago wherebeing in Oslo and seeing the
sunshine off the water, juststuff like that it stays with
you and it makes you appreciatethe world and the people and the
culture, and five years later,who cares about the world and
the people and the culture?
And, uh, you know, five yearslater, who cares about the money
that you spent on the trip.
It's just those memories theywere able to create, you know,
and the appreciation that goeswith it.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
so it would definitely be to have started
international travel much, muchearlier in my life okay, uh, and
we've talked about this acouple of times as well if you
could bring one great change toyour workplace, you know what
would that be?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You know, I wish leaders were more invested with
their employees.
You know, my dad again, youknow, has a saying you can
pretend to care but you can'tpretend to be there.
And it's all predicated on thisidea that showing up and
actually being there withsomeone means more than you
could ever imagine, you know,and the idea that you know, as a
director or manager or vicepresident, walking the aisles
(26:51):
and walking up to someone andsaying what are you working on?
You know, tell me about whatyou're doing, or I really
appreciate everything thatyou've been able to do.
And, just honestly, you know,listening it may take 30 seconds
of your life, but that personon the way home and they're
facing that test that I like tothink of the way home, you think
, you know, for the past eighthours, did anyone care about
(27:12):
what I did today?
Did I make a difference?
That person is able to go homeand tell their wife or their you
know, their family hey, youknow, the vice president came by
today, you know, and told mewhat a wonderful job I'm doing.
I was really curious about, youknow, about what I'm working on
and how important thatinvestment is, and so it's the
value of time Mark and the valueof investing in people, and I
(27:35):
know it's not easy for somereally good leaders who are
introverted and often just don'thave the time, but to me that
has always been.
I think the greatest motivatoris people realizing that someone
else cares, and especiallysomeone within leadership that
realizes that they're there.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Excellent.
That's a great point.
For sure, when you look atreading, I know you read a good
deal.
Is there a book that you liketo recommend to your colleagues
or to your team at?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Giant Food.
It's my dad.
He wrote a book, a businessbook, but it's not the type of
business book you typically read.
It's called the Four F's ofLeadership Lessons from the
Battlefield to the Boardroom.
And so my dad, General Droughty, he wrote a book talking about
(28:25):
being the ideal leader.
You know, in what you need to doaround being human and this
idea that you deal with the fourF's fear, failure, fatigue and
feelings and how you need to ownthese, you know, and the fact
that we're all human at the endof the day.
And so, you know, folks hearthat and they're like oh my God,
you know that doesn't soundlike a business book.
You're supposed to strive to beperfect, you're supposed to be
(28:47):
all these great virtues, butinstead, you know, my dad is
saying you're human and whetheryou're in combat or you're in
the boardroom, you're going toget scared, you're going to
doubt yourself, you're going towork too hard to get tired and
not manage your body.
You're going to get yourfeelings hurt by someone who
doesn't agree with you.
Are you going to assault or areyou going to get through it?
And then failure, god, we allfail.
(29:09):
I've failed so many times in mycareer.
But what do you take from itand how do you move on.
And so you know, I love theframework, because it's just
such a different way to admitwe're human and there these are
things that we need to embrace,but we can put them to our
advantage as we continue thegrowth that we have as leaders,
(29:29):
you know again, whether whetherin the military or in the
business world, and I just thinkit's a fantastic read in that
regard.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Excellent, yeah, I just wrote it down, grabbed a
piece of paper.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I'm going to give you a copy.
I'm going to have him sign onefor you and give you a copy
there, mark.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I'm a voracious reader so I would love to read
that Last question I think wehave today.
You know we like to have wordsof wisdom.
For those who are new to thefield right Aside from you and a
few others customer loyaltyisn't really taught in
universities and obviously whatyou teach at Georgetown is very,
very important.
But you look at the industryit's kind of challenging for
(30:08):
those who do very well becauseit's a blend of creative and
strategy and in-depth thinkingand it melts so many different
pieces right.
You know, what are a couple ofpieces of advice that you would
give to someone who's new, newlykind of starting, in the
industry?
What would you give to them?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a really smart thing to do.
My best advice and I think Imentioned it before is it's very
simple Shut up and listen.
Listen to your customers,listen to your peers, listen to
your leaders, but especially,especially customers, to make
decisions that ultimatelyimpacted those folks.
(31:00):
And the greatest success likewhat I mentioned about the
patent with Sallie Mae was whenI put the customer needs first.
And a lot of us have the bestof intentions, but we often
don't listen to customers andyou say, well, how easy is it to
do that?
You have the data.
The loyalty program is one ofthe best sources of data to
(31:21):
understand what people do.
And then you go to your businessintelligence partners to find
out what they think.
And if you know what they doand what they think, you have
such an advantage to reallyunderstand what's going on and,
most importantly, what's notworking, to then figure out what
do you do with it.
(31:41):
You know, but you know alsothings like going to the
customer service logs, callingcustomers, having real
conversations with them.
You know and I guess that's achallenge I would have for a lot
of my loyalty brethren iswhen's the last time you
actually spoke to customersconsistently?
You know, like on a regularbasis, to find out what ticks
and what's not working.
You know, and is that somethingthat you regularly do?
(32:03):
And I guarantee you it issomething that you will not
regret if you go down that pathand, at the very least, you will
make their day that youinvested in them and spent the
time to put them first andactually, like I said, just shut
up and listen to what they haveto share with you.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you very much for thatvery poignant, impactful insight
.
It's always great to talk withyou because I know you're a
treasure trove of insight and Iconsider you a good friend.
And it's a great conversation.
Thank you, and now we have thefun quickfire questions.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh my gosh Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
The third time you've done this.
These are all new questions,right, so we have to keep coming
up with you.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
What are the rules again?
It's got to be like one word orI can't think of too much right
.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah.
First question how would youdescribe your work life Too?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, first question how would you describe your?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
work life Too much.
If you have a day, a week offfrom work, what are you doing?
Traveling, excellent.
This is a little dated now, butwhat was, or what is, your New
Year's resolution?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
You know it was definitely to lose weight and
I'm losing that battle.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
So if you could live in any country or city, uh,
where would you live?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
oh my god, you know.
First it was barcelona.
I decided it's one of the mostmagical cities in the world.
But uh, my wife and I went tovenice um no, I'm sorry.
Florence, florence, yeah, andit was just awesome.
So I think I'm changing myopinion to Florence.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I think I'd go with Florence.
I could go see David all thetime.
I guess that would be fun.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
There you go, there you go.
That's one of the benefits.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
If you could go back to school, what would you?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
study.
Wow, you know philosophy.
I've done enough of theanalytics stuff.
I need to go on the other sideof the coin.
I'll let you have that one.
Is there a facet of the jobthat you would like to know more
about?
maybe be more involved with myrole.
Oh my gosh.
(34:06):
You know, I think one of thebenefits of interacting with you
in the loyalty community Markis trying to see loyalty from
different lenses.
Mark is trying to see loyaltyfrom different lenses and I
think that's where the benefitcomes in.
You know, looking at folks thathave, you know, more experience
with technology, partnerships,the whole AI aspect, and you
know how we embrace it.
So you know, there are thingsthat where I feel I'm very well
(34:26):
grounded, but then there areareas where I know that that's
not the case.
And again, I think there's aloyalty 360 comes in, because
I'm able to connect with thosefolks and, you know, really try
to understand if there arethings that I need to start
broadening my horizons on aswell.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Okay, and then is there a facet of the job that
you do now that you would liketo do maybe less or not be as
involved with.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Probably the operations aspect of it.
You know I love to dream up theideas, you know, and figure it
out, but sometimes it's nice tohave other people go make it
happen.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, I think the biggest challenge with
operations is you end updeveloping what you think is
great processes for everyone whoneed them, and they don't
follow them anyway.
So I'm like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
no, you'd be very frustrated, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
All this detailed out and we put all this time in
developing these processes andthen we don't follow them.
Yeah, true, very true, yeah.
So what motivates you whentackling challenges at Giant?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I think this idea of setting a goal and achieving it,
you know the idea that you havein your head X is going to
happen and are you able toreally make that occur?
You know, I love the ideas, thecompetitive, seeing it over the
goal line, you know, andactually seeing something
through is always what keeps usexciting.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Excellent, and what do you draw inspiration from?
You know what lights your fire?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Oh, my family.
You know I mean it's this ideathat you want to make them proud
.
You know you want to.
You know be a good role modeland you know, show them the path
and do your best to invest inthem.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Excellent.
And what is your favorite sportor hobby?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Oh, I love international soccer.
My background I'm a halfSicilian, so I follow a crappy
little team called Palermo.
They're always awful.
And then the Italian nationalteam, but it's usually more
frustrating than anything elseand I think what is your?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
who's your favorite athlete of all time?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
All time.
Oh boy, don Mattingly, firstbaseman New York Yankees, had a
great mustache, greatleft-handed hitter.
I named my first dog after him,but I used to be a big baseball
guy and he was just an awesomeplayer.
So yeah, I'm dating myselfagain, but the dog is also
fantastic as well.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Well, Ryan, thank you very much for taking the time
to join us today on thisExecutive Spotlight.
This is one of the coolest onesI've done so far.
It's always great speaking withyou, and thanks for everything
you do for the industry.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, likewise, mark.
You guys are a godsend to whatwe're doing and hopefully look
forward to seeing you soon aswell.
Thank you for helping all of usout in the loyalty community.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Absolutely, and thank you everyone for taking the
time to listen.
Make sure you join us backevery Saturday for our next
edition of our ExecutiveSpotlight.
Until then, have a wonderfulday.
Thanks everyone, take care.
Good afternoon, good morning.
This is Mark Johnson fromLoyalty360.
I hope everyone's happy, safeand well.
I wanted to welcome you back toour new interview series, the
Loyalty360 Executive SpotlightSeries, which is part of our
Leaders in Customer LoyaltySeries.
In this series, we featureconversations with some of the
most influential minds drivingsuccess within the most esteemed
(00:25):
customer loyalty programs inthe market, all of whom are
members of Loyalty360.
Today, we have the pleasure ofspeaking with Ryan Drade.
He's the head of loyalty atGiant Food.
He's one of the smartest in thebusiness and I consider him a
great friend.
Ryan, how are you today?
Thank you for taking time tojoin us.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Mr Johnson, always a pleasure, good to see you again
Doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
It's great to speak with you as well.
Always great to connect withyou because you're always on the
cutting edge of loyalty and orfraud.
You're always doing some coolthings.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I prefer to be on one than the other, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, it's good.
First off, for those who maynot be familiar, can you give us
a little background on yourfocus at Giant Food, and maybe a
little bit more Giant Food aswell?
That'd be great to know too.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, not a problem, and thanks again for
having me on here.
It's always a pleasure toconnect.
So I head up loyalty offermanagement and shopper marketing
at Giant Food.
For folks that may not befamiliar, giant Food is a
regional full-service grocerystore located in the
Mid-Atlantic.
We have 164 stores spread outbetween Maryland, northern
Virginia, delaware and DC andwe're the market leader in our
(01:34):
area for grocery sales.
So we are the number onegrocery provider in what's
called the Mid-Atlantic or theDMV area May not be familiar
with Giant, but probablyfamiliar with some of our other
sister brands, like Food, lionand Stop and Shop and
Hannaford's up in Maine.
But we're part of the largerAhold Delhaize business.
Ahold Delhaize is a Dutchmultinational retail and holding
(01:55):
company.
They have 16 total globalgrocery brands, mostly in Europe
, but they're actually inIndonesia as well.
As I mentioned.
We have our other partners upand down the eastern seaboard
and when you bring all of ustogether in one pot, aholdelhe
is actually the third largestpure play grocery retailer in
the United States.
So if you look at my role, youknow I just like to keep it
(02:18):
simple, mark, and just avoid alot of the unnecessary corporate
word salad.
My role is driving long-termrelationships with the customers
and through the idea that if wecan push incremental sales, if
we can retain sales over time bylinking it back to a reward
program and a loyalty strategyand in the process try to
establish something above andbeyond a transactional
(02:40):
relationship with our customers,then we're doing it right.
I think those are the threefoundational pillars of whether
I keep my job or not Growingsales, retaining sales and
trying to build a connection ina very competitive grocery
environment.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Excellent.
It's a very unique time to bein customer loyalty, grocery
especially.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, groceryespecially.
Our expectations are evolvingfairly rapidly.
Yeah, and I have a great dealof respect for what you do at
Giant Food, but when you look atthese evolving needs, how are
(03:15):
you working to meet the evolvingneeds and expectations of
today's customers?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
I got to be honest.
I've worked in loyalty forquite some time in hospitality,
different retail, drugstores,financial services, grocery
Definitely the most competitiveindustry I've worked within from
a loyalty point of view, theamount of competitors involved,
coupled with a customer basethat's very comfortable shopping
around.
They're not the most monogamousof shopping.
(03:42):
It's more promiscuous, I liketo say, and that gets a lot of
chuckles.
But I say it in the sense thatwithin grocery, people shop
across a variety of grocerychains on average, you think of
like the typical airline or thehotel program.
Once they get someone lockeddown, those people are like a
United person or a Marriottperson.
You know for life.
It's really more monogamous,you know, so to speak.
(04:03):
But grocery can be verydifficult for someone to just
have one main provider.
Think about, you know, drivingto work and going home and
stopping by someplace that'sconvenient on the way home, you
know, or not having a certaincategory in the store and
needing to go somewhere else.
It's just it's spread outacross so many different
locations.
And what we found is that afterCOVID broke and went away, we
(04:27):
went from basically being ableto do nothing wrong to sometimes
I feel like we can't doanything right.
When COVID happened, everyoneis at home, no one went to the
office.
You're afraid to go to anywherebut one grocery store, and so
in that regard it was like aone-stop shop and we and many
other grocers did very well inthat situation.
But so they weren't spreadingthe love around.
(04:47):
But now that post-COVID has comeabout, people back out in the
world, they're going torestaurants, they're back in the
workplace, they're not afraidof shopping around.
And then you couple that withthe current economic condition,
the value focus that is justbigger than ever before.
Folks are really thinking abouttheir basket in total, and it
often means making multiplestops to be able to do what they
(05:10):
want to do.
And so any good loyalty programtakes a step back and they say,
well, what's so special aboutus?
And it goes back to kind of anMBA approach where they say
you're either the low-costprovider or you do something
special, and we're not thelow-cost provider.
So we have to figure out how dowe stay special and do
something above and beyond,because in this world there's a
(05:32):
lot of the loyalty sea ofsameness, so to speak, and a lot
of the benefits that have cometo be.
So we tried to do somethingdifferent, mark and effective.
(05:53):
About two years ago, when thevalue focus really started
beginning, we flipped theloyalty model and started to
look at how do we get peoplewith a minimum amount of spend
involved in engaging withrewards.
You think of, typically, mostprograms.
They're for the power users,they're for the elites, the
platinums, the diamonds, theyget all the good stuff.
But we said, hey, if people areshopping around, how do we give
them maybe just something youknow very easily, so that when
they're shopping each week theyknow if I go to Giant, I'm going
(06:15):
to get something for free?
And in our case, we linked aprogram allowing the redemption
of a minimum of points, like 5,10, 15 points, to things like
milk and eggs and produce, wherethey know if they came to us
they would get something forfree each week.
Produce where they know if theycame to us they would get
something for free each week.
And that program became verysuccessful and is a model of
what, a lot of what we're tryingto do now, which is value, you
know, really focused on valueand ensuring that every customer
(06:35):
can get something from theprogram.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Absolutely, and then your program does a great job of
doing that right.
It's won numerous awards, uh,very focused on, you know,
understanding the customer.
But that whole value equationis very important and, as you
mentioned, it's, uh, one of thetop topics we hear right now
from from our, our community,right, and it can mean different
things if you can value in theprogram, customers having value
(06:59):
in the program but also does the, the brand itself find value in
the program?
And and I think you've done agreat job, not only making the
program relevant and actionableand interesting to the customers
, but you've also done a greatjob of socializing the program
internally to be, you know, it'sa champion for everything that
Giant Food wants to do for thecustomers.
(07:23):
But those internally see valueand they understand the
importance and impact of theprogram and you've done a lot to
champion that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, I appreciate that.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Absolutely so.
When you look at customerexperience, you know, in your
opinion, what is the singlebiggest factor that influences a
great customer experience.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, you know and you know it may surprise you,
mark, because it may falloutside of you know what a
loyalty program manager shouldsay, but I'll tell you what I've
seen and what I think thereality truly is.
It's service.
At the end of the day, it'sphenomenal service that is given
to customers and that can beexpressed by that interaction
(08:03):
personally in the store, ifthere is a physical presence.
It can be expressed by thatinteraction personally in the
store.
If there is a physical presence, it can be a very short
experience online, minimalglitches, uh.
It's a very short wait on thephone to connect with a customer
service rep and a very qualityexperience.
But I found, more than pointsanything else, that the greatest
value that we can give to thecustomers is respecting their
time, uh, but also treating themlike human beings and being
(08:27):
incredibly good to them.
Now, that being said, I don'tthink that we're consistently
good at it, and I think that,for a company, trying to figure
out what is our identity,service is something that I
think a lot of companies areafraid to take on, because it's
easier to throw money at thingslike points and rewards and even
discounting a product by 10cents a week.
It takes a long time to build aservice culture.
(08:50):
Look at Chick-fil-A, look atUSAA companies that said you
know what?
We're going to be the best attreating our customers like gold
.
And I think that if you havethat type of model, customers
will get through higher prices,they'll get through out of
stocks, they'll get through arange of products or a range of
problems because they love howthey're treated and, admittedly,
(09:12):
I'm really chasing that to seehow can we put that type of
framework within Giant as adifferentiator and, like I said,
it's not easy, it takes a longtime, but that, to me, is the
single biggest factor istreating people well.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Now I think you're absolutely right and the
employee is part of that right.
Make sure the employee is happy, the employees bought in and
also the brand itself.
And I think one of the biggestchallenges that we're kind of
going away from that but serviceyou have to be able to say I'm
sorry, right If something messedup.
If something's wrong, thebrand's going to say you know,
(09:46):
I'm sorry, we'll make it right,versus ah, it wasn't us, it was
you right.
So, and I think that anotherthing you do very well and
you're building that into yourprogramming processes is being
accountable for what you guys do, and it's always great to hear
you know how you approach thatas well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, and Mark, just on that front real quick.
You know, for other loyaltymanagers there's a way that they
can link to the program.
I think one of the greatestthings I do every week is I get
our customer service logs and Igo through and I look at the
issues of you know where thefrustrations are that people are
having, and I take a handful ofthem and I call them back, you
know, or write them an email andsay let's talk.
You know, let's get on the phone.
I'd love to hear what happened.
(10:21):
But the first thing I say isI'm sorry and you own it and
you're willing to admit we canbe better and we need to be
better to keep your business.
And the response to that isphenomenal because people they
just want to be heard and thefact that you're willing to
connect, that you want to ownthe issue, that you want to make
it better.
I think from a loyaltyperspective, any good loyalty
(10:43):
director, manager, vicepresident, should be talking to
their customers on a weeklybasis.
You don't want to bedisconnected in the ivory tower.
You need to know what's goingon in the trenches and I would
say I think it's a greatopportunity to really understand
and connect.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Absolutely Speaking of ivory towers.
The next question what's onepassion that you enjoy outside
of work, something youthoroughly enjoy doing?
I know the answer, but yeah,you do.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
We've been talking for a long time now.
Yeah, it is teaching, mark.
You know I really love myability to be an adjunct
professor.
When you've let me speak at theLoyalty360 events, one of the
things I always do is my PSA atthe start of my presentation to
tell everyone, you know, pay itforward.
There's so much incredibleexperience in the audience.
Go back to the campus, you know.
Share your war stories with thenext generation, because it's
(11:34):
really important that they canlink theory with practice.
You know, so to speak, and youknow so many corporate
professionals, you know, havelearned so much.
They see what really happens inthe field.
So many corporate professionals, you know, have learned so much
.
They see what really happens inthe field, but they don't give
that back to.
You know the next generation,you know who really need to
understand about.
You know what really happensand you know to talk about
things like courage andleadership and failure.
(11:55):
You know stress.
We owe it to them to equip themwith.
You know what they need tosucceed in the future world.
I talk about my dad a lot andhe's definitely my hero.
He was a three-time combatveteran in Vietnam and then also
in Desert Storm.
But one of his disappointmentsbefore Vietnam was all the prior
veterans from World War II andKorea, these guys that faced
(12:16):
hard combat.
They didn't go back to theacademies and to the young
soldiers and prepare them by andlarge for going into combat.
You know all the things.
They could have told them tosay it's okay to be scared, you
know these things are going tohappen, don't worry, you can do
it.
And when my dad rose to become abrigadier general in the Marine
Corps, one of his primaryobligations was to tell young
troops you know what to expectand to make sure they're ready
(12:38):
to face the challenge.
And so I'm not trying to equatemy experience in the corporate
world to anything he or otherveterans have done, but I think
we can do similar to preparethat next generation to say hey,
let us tell you what you're infor, let us prepare you to lead.
You know to let people go, howyou treat people well and how
you can invest in their futures.
(13:00):
And teaching has given me atremendous opportunity to not
only teach loyalty strategy butto really invest in what I feel
are the future leaders as well.
Excellent.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
And how do you get involved in teaching?
How did that come to be?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, you know, I think one of the best things
that you can do is go back tothe school where you came from
if you have that opportunity.
For me, I went to Georgetownfor my MBA.
It was a wonderful opportunity,but after I left, there was
like this voice inside my head,mark, um, that was telling me
give back.
You know, it really was amagical experience while you
were there.
And so, you know, I had myeducation, I had my career at
(13:35):
that point, but I realized howfortunate I was to have several
professors that really helped mesee what my path could be.
Um, I didn't know what I wantedto be when I went to get my MBA
.
I just knew it was somethingthat I should do.
But I came out really focusedon analytical marketing and
saying this is what I want, andso I'm so grateful for the
(13:56):
professors that pointed me inthat direction.
So, in my case, I kept in goodcontact with those folks at
Georgetown and I reached out.
You know, and that's probablythe hardest part is just
reaching out to begin with andsaying, hey, I'd love to come in
and do some guest lecturing.
You know, there's some stuffthat I'm, you know, well-versed
on in my career at this pointand, trust me, marketing
professors love when you cancome in and talk about something
(14:17):
.
It gives them the chance totake the time off to have
someone who's active in thefield talk to them about a
relevant topic, and so to havethose subject matter experts is
usually well received and itgives you the chance to really
say, hey, do I like this?
Does it feel good?
Do I like preparing for it, theQ&A that goes along with it,
and after doing that a few times, I was hooked and at that point
(14:37):
I built a curriculum, asyllabus for loyalty strategy,
brought it back to Georgetown,they made me try a class out,
hour and a half class in frontof professors, and I took them
through my deck and my point ofview and they said, all right,
you're on, and that was back in2019.
And we've been doing it eversince and it's just a wonderful
(14:58):
opportunity to correct and staycurrent in what we do.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Okay, excellent, Great.
Yeah.
Your passion for that isobviously something to be very
proud of.
You do a great job on that.
Thank you Well, next questionCan you tell us a little bit
about your family and how yourfamily kind of drives your
passion in work and in otherareas?
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, you could definitely call me the odd man
out, mark.
My entire family served ineither the Marine Corps or the
Navy.
My entire family served ineither the Marine Corps or the
Navy.
My father, as I said, was ageneral.
My mom was a Marine officerearlier in her career, my older
sister was that first wave offemale combat aviators flying
the F-18 back in the 90s, youknow, and all the stuff that she
had to deal with to break it,break on through.
(15:39):
And then my brother, my olderbrother, was a naval
intelligence officer.
So me, you know people, whatthey always say is well, what,
what happened to you, you know?
And uh, I tell them why Icouldn't even get a commission
in the salvation army, you know.
But, uh, that gets a fewchuckles, but, um, the idea was
I didn't feel that calling thatthey did.
Uh, they knew, they knew theywanted to serve, they knew they
(16:01):
wanted to go into the, to themilitary, and I just didn't have
that, you know, in my life andI didn't want to take it away
from someone who wanted it morethan anything, because my last
name was the same one as that ofa general.
It wouldn't have been fair.
So there's some.
Sometimes I look back and say,yeah, you know, should I have
done so or not?
You know, and that's somethingI dwell on at times there, but
(16:21):
it just wasn't.
It wasn't my path.
And I think a lot of folks getworried about what is my path.
And so many folks want to havethis calling when they're young,
when they're going to college,even when they're coming out to
say I know what I want to do,and they beat themselves up so
much when they don't know whatit is.
But guess what?
(16:42):
I was that guy too.
You know that guy who trieddifferent jobs.
I tried a little bit of this, alittle bit of that, and I
learned what I liked, what Ididn't like, until that time
where I went back and got my MBA.
Like I said, I was 30 years oldat the time, so I was out in
the working world for a goodeight, nine years before I
figured out what I wanted to dowhen I grow up.
(17:03):
So it's one of the things Ijust want to remind folks is
it's good to try things, it'sgood to figure out what you like
and, more importantly, what youdon't like, but don't beat
yourself up, you know, becauseit does come to you as you keep
trying.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Excellent.
What was your first job aftercollege?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, I worked at a nightclub all during college,
you know.
So that helped out to give mesome money coming out of school.
But then, after I graduatedfrom my undergrad actually I
moved to San Diego for thebetter part of a year.
I surfed, I painted, did modernart and I drank wine.
My parents were so disappointedin me.
I got to be honest.
(17:40):
They're like you got thiseducation and you're out there
screwing around.
Then the money ran out and Irealized I had to get serious.
So, um, I came back to the eastcoast and I worked for a big
national telecom selling prepaidphone cards.
I mark, I don't know you oldenough to remember pre prepaid
phone cards yes, I do rememberthem a little bit.
Yes, but you know, before yourcell phone could call anywhere
(18:02):
in the world, you had to go downto the store and buy this card
and scratch off the pin and andit costs like a buck 50 a minute
.
You know to call anywhere inthe world, but I was selling
those to different likeconvenience stores and bodegas
and you know different spots.
But that was my first real kindof grown up job after college.
Okay, excellent.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
For those who may not know, you have a pretty diverse
history in customer loyaltyright Different verticals.
Can you talk about working inthe different verticals and how
it's been helpful or potentiallychallenging regarding kind of
how you look at customer loyalty?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Yeah, I've been somewhat of a restless soul,
I'll say Building programsserving customers across a
variety of industries.
My background I work at CapitalOne and Sallie Mae so I did
loyalty and financial services.
I did Choice Hotels so I didthe whole hospitality thing.
I was briefly at Rite Aid andled their loyalty program there,
and then in this grocery worldhere with Giant and also was on
(18:59):
the other side of the tabledoing consulting with Amex,
united Airlines, marriott.
So I've seen a lot of differentverticals.
I usually I make the movesbecause I like the challenge and
I always feel like it's theright time to move on once you
build something significant andthen you feel there's something
else.
You know that is a greaterchallenge.
I was never that guy that waswilling to, I think, you know,
(19:21):
be at a company for 20, 30, 40years and I respect those folks
tremendously.
But I always wanted tochallenge myself with something
new, you know, and just you kindof learn a new model, you know,
start with the, with the manualand try to work it through.
And so in that regard, you know, making the move each time was
always a challenge but alwaysgave me a chance to see loyalty
from a different lens, you know,in terms of how the customers,
(19:43):
the technology, the competitiveenvironment.
So in that regard, I've enjoyedthe challenges.
As I mentioned when we firsttalked, grocery has definitely
been the biggest challenge I'veseen.
It is such a complex,competitive world so they are
keeping me very busy here, but Ireally do love the challenges
that we have in this market aswell.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Absolutely, and I think that your diverse
background from Choice andothers is giving you a kind of a
unique perspective and beingable to solve some problems.
Yeah, and one of the areas thatyou've done amazing work in and
it's always great to hear youtalk about is fraud, program
fraud, gaming, how you look atit right, and I think a lot of
that history is kind of based onsome things you may have seen
(20:24):
in the travel industry.
A lot of that history is kindof based on some things you may
have seen in the travel industry.
How did you become so focusedon fraud and employee gaming?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And you know what drives you there.
Yeah, I think the reality thatany loyalty manager needs to
very quickly accept is thatwherever there is value, there's
an opportunity for it to bestolen.
There is value, there's anopportunity for it to be stolen,
and that attracts some of thesmartest, most motivated
(20:54):
criminals that you're ever goingto run across.
And one of the other things youneed to realize is that they're
smarter than you.
They're 100% dedicated toripping you off, while at best,
with the teams that you have,maybe 5% of your time is spent
looking at fraud In addition toall the other things you need to
do.
These people are hell bent onemptying your bank account and
they win a lot.
(21:15):
So, without getting into toomany details, what I found in
both hotels and in grocery was,if you pay very close attention
to the data and you are verycurious, you will find things
that take a kind of a secondopinion or a double take to say
how can people spending solittle redeem so much?
You know, why are these pointsleaving accounts?
(21:37):
Why are there so manyredemptions in parts of the
world that don't make sense, youknow, and a lot of folks might
just say, eh, it's not makingthat much of a financial
difference.
I'm just going to look atsomething else.
But you know the ones thatreallyicate working against us
and another brand to takeliterally hundreds of thousands
(22:09):
and then millions of dollars invalue, and they were staying
beneath the surface, but theyfinally made some mistakes in
terms of showing some datapatterns that we caught and we
didn't let go.
And it took us months on end tobe able to go back and forth and
figure out ways to actuallybeat it, and even bringing in
third parties, they couldn'tfigure it out half the time.
So you know, my main aspecthere is that it's a reality.
(22:31):
They're smart, they're going tobeat you a lot of the time, but
stay curious.
We sit on an ocean of data andif you really want to go down
that path, you should to protectyour program.
But you know, the further yougo down, you will find things
that are concerning that makeyou realize that there's often
bigger problems to be looked at.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
That's interesting.
That's great.
Yeah, when you look at yourcareer success, what are a
couple things you're most proudof?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, a couple things I'd say from an achievement
point of view.
I was lucky.
I worked for Sally May at apoint in time actually, when I
came out of Georgetown and I wasin direct marketing and what I
found very quickly was listeningto customers and this whole
idea of shutting up andlistening that I like to talk
about.
I would go to the contactcenters, I would just listen,
(23:20):
listen, listen, listen, becauseanyone that holds a student loan
automatically hates you as alender.
That's just the reality of thesituation.
So there was a lot of animositytowards Sally Mae, but I was
trying to understand.
You know, why are these peopleso upset?
And what I figured out veryquickly by listening was they
signed a lot of papers for fouryears, them or their parents and
then that bill comes six monthslater and says surprise, you
(23:40):
owe us $1,500 a month.
And they look at that and say Ihad no idea what the hell I was
getting into and what adisservice and tragedy it is to
start life on that path.
And so I was.
At the same time, I was gettinga mortgage on a home and I was
saying, well, if I borrow X,that's fine, but really what's
the monthly payment that I needto worry about and does my
income work against it?
And I had this eureka momentwhere I was like, well, what if
(24:02):
we did the same thing in studentlending, where we said, okay,
let's estimate four years oflending and what your mom and
dad might put in, or thescholarships, et cetera, and
what's left to be done from aloan point of view, we'll put
that in and estimate the monthlypayment for your entire
education.
Specific to the schools, you'relooking at real costs and so
that way, if someone was lookingat George Mason, george
(24:23):
Washington, washington andGeorgetown, they could see three
very different price pointswhat they're studying and maybe
say is this the right move?
You know, am I equipped to takethis on with what I'm studying
and what I feel I'm going to do?
And it pushes that informationforward.
So I was able to get a patentfor creating that algorithm and
that whole process.
(24:43):
But what I'm really proud of isthe fact that we helped people.
We saw them materially changeand motivate behavior, and
that's really where I think Igot the loyalty bug mark.
You know, was building thatrelationship with folks over
time.
You know, building thatlong-term relationship.
I would say, above and beyondthat achievement.
The greatest thing at thispoint in my career is seeing the
younger folks that I'veinvested in, tutored, mentored,
(25:05):
led, now becoming directors, youknow, and higher level folks in
an organization and seeingtheir growth, you know, and how
good it felt to build theloyalty foundation with them and
then seeing them take their ownskills, you know and abilities
and just build these beautifulcareers.
And it's wonderful to see themgrow over time as well.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Excellent when you look back.
If you could go back in timeand maybe change one thing about
your life, what would that beand why?
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I wish I had started traveling a lot earlier.
You know, I waited till, youknow, into my 20s, even into my
30s, you know, and I realizedwhat a joy it is to see the
world and the fact that thememories stay with you forever.
You know, stuff is great andit's nice to have fun stuff, but
stuff comes and goes.
But the idea of being able tothink back to a time in
(25:55):
Barcelona 10 years ago wherebeing in Oslo and seeing the
sunshine off the water, juststuff like that it stays with
you and it makes you appreciatethe world and the people and the
culture, and five years later,who cares about the world and
the people and the culture?
And, uh, you know, five yearslater, who cares about the money
that you spent on the trip.
It's just those memories theywere able to create, you know,
and the appreciation that goeswith it.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
so it would definitely be to have started
international travel much, muchearlier in my life okay, uh, and
we've talked about this acouple of times as well if you
could bring one great change toyour workplace, you know what
would that be?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You know, I wish leaders were more invested with
their employees.
You know, my dad again, youknow, has a saying you can
pretend to care but you can'tpretend to be there.
And it's all predicated on thisidea that showing up and
actually being there withsomeone means more than you
could ever imagine, you know,and the idea that you know, as a
director or manager or vicepresident, walking the aisles
(26:51):
and walking up to someone andsaying what are you working on?
You know, tell me about whatyou're doing, or I really
appreciate everything thatyou've been able to do.
And, just honestly, you know,listening it may take 30 seconds
of your life, but that personon the way home and they're
facing that test that I like tothink of the way home, you think
, you know, for the past eighthours, did anyone care about
(27:12):
what I did today?
Did I make a difference?
That person is able to go homeand tell their wife or their you
know, their family hey, youknow, the vice president came by
today, you know, and told mewhat a wonderful job I'm doing.
I was really curious about, youknow, about what I'm working on
and how important thatinvestment is, and so it's the
value of time Mark and the valueof investing in people, and I
(27:35):
know it's not easy for somereally good leaders who are
introverted and often just don'thave the time, but to me that
has always been.
I think the greatest motivatoris people realizing that someone
else cares, and especiallysomeone within leadership that
realizes that they're there.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Excellent.
That's a great point.
For sure, when you look atreading, I know you read a good
deal.
Is there a book that you liketo recommend to your colleagues
or to your team at?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Giant Food.
It's my dad.
He wrote a book, a businessbook, but it's not the type of
business book you typically read.
It's called the Four F's ofLeadership Lessons from the
Battlefield to the Boardroom.
And so my dad, General Droughty, he wrote a book talking about
(28:25):
being the ideal leader.
You know, in what you need to doaround being human and this
idea that you deal with the fourF's fear, failure, fatigue and
feelings and how you need to ownthese, you know, and the fact
that we're all human at the endof the day.
And so, you know, folks hearthat and they're like oh my God,
you know that doesn't soundlike a business book.
You're supposed to strive to beperfect, you're supposed to be
(28:47):
all these great virtues, butinstead, you know, my dad is
saying you're human and whetheryou're in combat or you're in
the boardroom, you're going toget scared, you're going to
doubt yourself, you're going towork too hard to get tired and
not manage your body.
You're going to get yourfeelings hurt by someone who
doesn't agree with you.
Are you going to assault or areyou going to get through it?
And then failure, god, we allfail.
(29:09):
I've failed so many times in mycareer.
But what do you take from itand how do you move on.
And so you know, I love theframework, because it's just
such a different way to admitwe're human and there these are
things that we need to embrace,but we can put them to our
advantage as we continue thegrowth that we have as leaders,
(29:29):
you know again, whether whetherin the military or in the
business world, and I just thinkit's a fantastic read in that
regard.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Excellent, yeah, I just wrote it down, grabbed a
piece of paper.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
I'm going to give you a copy.
I'm going to have him sign onefor you and give you a copy
there, mark.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I'm a voracious reader so I would love to read
that Last question I think wehave today.
You know we like to have wordsof wisdom.
For those who are new to thefield right Aside from you and a
few others customer loyaltyisn't really taught in
universities and obviously whatyou teach at Georgetown is very,
very important.
But you look at the industryit's kind of challenging for
(30:08):
those who do very well becauseit's a blend of creative and
strategy and in-depth thinkingand it melts so many different
pieces right.
You know, what are a couple ofpieces of advice that you would
give to someone who's new, newlykind of starting, in the
industry?
What would you give to them?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a really smart thing to do.
My best advice and I think Imentioned it before is it's very
simple Shut up and listen.
Listen to your customers,listen to your peers, listen to
your leaders, but especially,especially customers, to make
decisions that ultimatelyimpacted those folks.
(31:00):
And the greatest success likewhat I mentioned about the
patent with Sallie Mae was whenI put the customer needs first.
And a lot of us have the bestof intentions, but we often
don't listen to customers andyou say, well, how easy is it to
do that?
You have the data.
The loyalty program is one ofthe best sources of data to
(31:21):
understand what people do.
And then you go to your businessintelligence partners to find
out what they think.
And if you know what they doand what they think, you have
such an advantage to reallyunderstand what's going on and,
most importantly, what's notworking, to then figure out what
do you do with it.
(31:41):
You know, but you know alsothings like going to the
customer service logs, callingcustomers, having real
conversations with them.
You know and I guess that's achallenge I would have for a lot
of my loyalty brethren iswhen's the last time you
actually spoke to customersconsistently?
You know, like on a regularbasis, to find out what ticks
and what's not working.
You know, and is that somethingthat you regularly do?
(32:03):
And I guarantee you it issomething that you will not
regret if you go down that pathand, at the very least, you will
make their day that youinvested in them and spent the
time to put them first andactually, like I said, just shut
up and listen to what they haveto share with you.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you very much for thatvery poignant, impactful insight
.
It's always great to talk withyou because I know you're a
treasure trove of insight and Iconsider you a good friend.
And it's a great conversation.
Thank you, and now we have thefun quickfire questions.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh my gosh Okay.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
The third time you've done this.
These are all new questions,right, so we have to keep coming
up with you.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
What are the rules again?
It's got to be like one word orI can't think of too much right
.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah.
First question how would youdescribe your work life Too?
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, first question how would you describe your?
Speaker 1 (32:59):
work life Too much.
If you have a day, a week offfrom work, what are you doing?
Traveling, excellent.
This is a little dated now, butwhat was, or what is, your New
Year's resolution?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
You know it was definitely to lose weight and
I'm losing that battle.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
So if you could live in any country or city, uh,
where would you live?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
oh my god, you know.
First it was barcelona.
I decided it's one of the mostmagical cities in the world.
But uh, my wife and I went tovenice um no, I'm sorry.
Florence, florence, yeah, andit was just awesome.
So I think I'm changing myopinion to Florence.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
I think I'd go with Florence.
I could go see David all thetime.
I guess that would be fun.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
There you go, there you go.
That's one of the benefits.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
If you could go back to school, what would you?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
study.
Wow, you know philosophy.
I've done enough of theanalytics stuff.
I need to go on the other sideof the coin.
I'll let you have that one.
Is there a facet of the jobthat you would like to know more
about?
maybe be more involved with myrole.
Oh my gosh.
(34:06):
You know, I think one of thebenefits of interacting with you
in the loyalty community Markis trying to see loyalty from
different lenses.
Mark is trying to see loyaltyfrom different lenses and I
think that's where the benefitcomes in.
You know, looking at folks thathave, you know, more experience
with technology, partnerships,the whole AI aspect, and you
know how we embrace it.
So you know, there are thingsthat where I feel I'm very well
(34:26):
grounded, but then there areareas where I know that that's
not the case.
And again, I think there's aloyalty 360 comes in, because
I'm able to connect with thosefolks and, you know, really try
to understand if there arethings that I need to start
broadening my horizons on aswell.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Okay, and then is there a facet of the job that
you do now that you would liketo do maybe less or not be as
involved with.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Probably the operations aspect of it.
You know I love to dream up theideas, you know, and figure it
out, but sometimes it's nice tohave other people go make it
happen.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Yeah, I think the biggest challenge with
operations is you end updeveloping what you think is
great processes for everyone whoneed them, and they don't
follow them anyway.
So I'm like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
no, you'd be very frustrated, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
All this detailed out and we put all this time in
developing these processes andthen we don't follow them.
Yeah, true, very true, yeah.
So what motivates you whentackling challenges at Giant?
Speaker 2 (35:20):
I think this idea of setting a goal and achieving it,
you know the idea that you havein your head X is going to
happen and are you able toreally make that occur?
You know, I love the ideas, thecompetitive, seeing it over the
goal line, you know, andactually seeing something
through is always what keeps usexciting.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Excellent, and what do you draw inspiration from?
You know what lights your fire?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Oh, my family.
You know I mean it's this ideathat you want to make them proud
.
You know you want to.
You know be a good role modeland you know, show them the path
and do your best to invest inthem.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Excellent.
And what is your favorite sportor hobby?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Oh, I love international soccer.
My background I'm a halfSicilian, so I follow a crappy
little team called Palermo.
They're always awful.
And then the Italian nationalteam, but it's usually more
frustrating than anything elseand I think what is your?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
who's your favorite athlete of all time?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
All time.
Oh boy, don Mattingly, firstbaseman New York Yankees, had a
great mustache, greatleft-handed hitter.
I named my first dog after him,but I used to be a big baseball
guy and he was just an awesomeplayer.
So yeah, I'm dating myselfagain, but the dog is also
fantastic as well.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Well, Ryan, thank you very much for taking the time
to join us today on thisExecutive Spotlight.
This is one of the coolest onesI've done so far.
It's always great speaking withyou, and thanks for everything
you do for the industry.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Yeah, likewise, mark.
You guys are a godsend to whatwe're doing and hopefully look
forward to seeing you soon aswell.
Thank you for helping all of usout in the loyalty community.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Absolutely, and thank you everyone for taking the
time to listen.
Make sure you join us backevery Saturday for our next
edition of our ExecutiveSpotlight.
Until then, have a wonderfulday.
Thanks everyone, take care.
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