May 22, 2025 • 28 mins
As one of the NBA’s most recognized franchises, the Cleveland Cavaliers are deeply woven into the cultural and civic fabric of their city. Behind the high-octane action on the court is a strategic and increasingly sophisticated approach to fan engagement powered by the Cavaliers Marketing team. Central to the marketing team’s success is the role Jeremy Halek plays as the Senior Director of Consumer Marketing. With a background that blends data science and marketing strategy, Halek has helped the organization reshape how it defines and delivers value to fans, emphasizing emotional connection, personalized engagement, and long-term loyalty.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Few things ignite passion like professional sports
.
These aren't just games.
They are shared experiencespassed down through generations,
whether it's wearing yourparents' favorite jersey,
sitting in packed stadiums orwatching Demaryius Thomas Hall
in that unforgettable pass fromTim Tebow, sports create
emotional connections that shapeidentity and loyalty.
(00:24):
Placebo sports create emotionalconnections that shape identity
and loyalty, and few citieslive and breathe that loyalty
like Cleveland.
While I didn't grow up rootingfor Cleveland teams, I've always
respected the city's unwaveringdevotion.
The Browns, the Guardians andthe Cavaliers aren't just
franchises.
They're the heart of the city,woven into its culture.
Today we're shining a spotlighton the Cleveland Cavaliers and
(00:46):
their fiercely loyal fan base.
We're joined by Jeremy Halleck.
He's the Senior Director ofConsumer Marketing at the Cavs.
He's going to dive into how theCavs are driving fan engagement
, redefining customer loyaltyand fueling Cleveland pride
every day.
Jeremy, thank you very much fortaking the time to join us
today.
How are you Doing great?
(01:07):
Doing great.
How are you Doing well?
Thank you very much.
First off, for those who maynot know and I'm sure everyone
does can you give us a shortintroduction to the Cleveland
Cavaliers organization?
You know what's the backstory.
When was the team?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
founded?
Sure, so the team was foundedin 1970, actually so quite a
ways ago.
So we're part of the NationalBasketball Association.
We are part of RockEntertainment Group, which is
led by majority owner DanGilbert of Rocket Companies, and
it's really a conglomerate ofsports and entertainment
properties Cleveland MonstersCleveland Charge we help manage
(01:42):
Rocket Arena events.
Cleveland Charge we help manageRocket Arena events.
The team itself really isfocused on fan experience,
community, cleveland's vibrancy,helping rebuild the downtown
metro area.
We are located in Rocket Arena,which is in downtown Cleveland.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, a little bit more about your role in the
organization.
How did you get that position?
What do you focus on in yourrole, and were there positions
that kind of led you up to thisrole before your senior director
of consumer marketing role atthe Caps?
Yeah, so I?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
have a kind of I'd say intricate journey.
I started with the Cavaliersseveral several years ago, kind
of lent into more CRM emaildatabase analyst jobs, landed or
grew into a manager of databaseand CRM.
I left there for a couple ofyears, helped implement sports
(02:36):
specific software that attachesinto CRMs.
I came back into more of a datarole so I helped build out a
data operations team back withthe Cavaliers about seven years
ago and about two years ago Itransitioned over to a smaller,
newer role of consumer marketingthat helps consumer growth, how
we generate leads for differentticketing products, how we
(02:59):
market those products, how wedefine and manage our customer
journey on the web and otherchannels and really just
responsible for helping educatethose about the products that we
try to sell and then ultimatelycreating the best path and user
experience for customers andpotential customers.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Okay, when you look at kind of the macro, micro
environment right now lots ofchallenges, potentially
disruptions, but holisticallymarketing is something more
opportune but also a little morechallenging than it was maybe
in the past.
Lots of disparate technology.
How do you look at data?
How do you make actual insightsand derive them from the data
(03:39):
sets?
You know, when you look at thatholistically in your role, you
know what keeps you up at night.
What are the biggest challengesthat you face or maybe even the
opportunities that you face inyour current position?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think that always feelinglike there's there's so much
opportunity, I think thatthere's, there's constantly.
You know, you're constantlytrying to create engagements in
multiple channels.
You're constantly trying tocreate engagements in multiple
channels, trying to understandwhere people want to be and
meeting them there in a worldwhere information is available
at your fingertips.
So what keeps me up at night isare there gaps in our customer
(04:13):
journey?
Are there people?
Is there information that we'renot serving them?
How can we elicit informationfrom folks to understand what
their needs are, what theirwants are within our product and
then within the communicationthat they're receiving around it
?
So you know, I told you I camefrom more of a more of a data
person than a marketer, whichhas actually helped me in my
role, because I really startedin a place where you know,
(04:38):
knowing that we need data in ausable format to help drive
personalization and help createdeeper engagement and try to
innovate the fan experience.
So I really think that you knowthose are the opportunities of
you can't just collect data, butyou need to activate it and
there's almost endless ways toactivate it.
But if you try to hone in onreally what are your goals?
(05:00):
What are your?
What products are you trying toeducate and really break it
down?
It helps you figure out how youtrying to educate and really
break it down.
It helps you figure out how youwant to use that data.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Excellent.
You know, sports fans loyaltycan be quite deep, maybe
irrational.
I'm a pretty big Denver Broncosfan.
My wife would say probably someof the worst experiences in her
life have something to do withme at a football game, them
losing and she being there.
So definitely a rationalloyalty rabid fans.
(05:28):
When you look at the loyaltyyou have for the Cavs, loyalty
to Cleveland sports teams runsvery deep.
Right, living in Cincinnati,I'm not a Cincinnati fan, but
they don't seem to have theaffinity that the Cleveland fans
do.
They're very loyal, sell-off toall of them, right.
But when you look at theemotional loyalty customer
loyalty to the Cavs you have aCavs United membership program
(05:52):
as well.
How does that fit into theoverall customer loyalty of the
organization?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So, yeah, cavs United , that is our official season
ticket member program.
I think you'll see, it's reallyan industry term where season
tickets is moving towards moreholistic annual membership
programs.
So we really focus on thetangible, intangible benefits
that we can create.
But it's basically a tieredprogram that helps reward our
(06:23):
most loyal and invested fans.
There's benefits and perks thatincrease as your investment and
tenure increases.
We offer things like exclusiveaccess, premium experiences.
But there's also a lot ofintangible things that people
express to us when we researchabout how they think about the
product, how they think aboutour organization, and Cleveland
(06:43):
is not a very transient city.
So we're lucky to haveextremely loyal, lucky to be in
a city and industry where peopleexpress such a love.
They talk about other fans likefamily.
These are the words they use inresearch that we do, and they
were just lucky.
But the programs that we create, especially Cavs United, is
(07:04):
really designed to lean intothat, to customize the
experience for individuals thatfind different value in
different things, but also,through our messaging, helping
them feel like they're part of afamily, that they can express
the pride and legacy throughgenerational membership and
they're helping contribute tothe civic vibrancy of downtown.
So all those things are one webake into the program but two we
(07:28):
feel like just is returned tous and we try to drive that
through loyalty with them.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Okay, and we'll look at it holistically.
What does customer loyalty meanto you and to the Cavs?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think you know it's reallythe cornerstone of our fan
strategy.
I think you know it's to usit's really the deep emotional
connection, this feeling thatyou're belonging to something
bigger than yourself as a sharedidentity that you feel valued
through the things that we helpcreate.
We see a lot of support throughthick and thin of just team
(08:03):
performance.
You know we try to createthings where you will value.
Even if the team is not doingwell, you'll value everything
that we try to provide alongwith it and really everything
that you do is what we try toestablish through long term
relationships.
We prioritize significantresources internally,
(08:24):
cross-departmentally, throughstaff, through events, all sorts
of things to help everyone feellike your investment is
appreciated and we bake thatback into the fan experience
through every game.
That is an exciting thing to bea part of.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And you talked about a little bit baking into the
organization.
There is a significant amountof discussion right now within
our community the brandcommunity around customer
loyalty, how it's prioritized,how it should be focused on.
Is it a cost center, Is it aninvestment?
You touched on it a little bit.
How is customer loyaltyprioritized within your
organization?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's really we look at ourselves as leaders and fan
experience and the number onething we continue to invest in
from Dan on down is, just whenyou come to an event here, a
game, it's an experience like noother and we want to keep it
that way.
We want to keep it fresh,engaging, exciting.
You know it's a bit difficultto measure some of the
(09:29):
subjective opinions on what'smore valuable than the others or
some of the intangible feelingsthat come along that people
express.
But more in terms ofmeasurement, I think the things
that we look at, we try to havegoals for touch points with
members that are different withinvestment.
We look at satisfaction surveys.
We look at member tenure,renewal rates, event
(09:52):
participation.
We do a lot of qualitativefeedback through testimonials,
surveys, all of our referralactivities.
So all of those things arebaked into how we understand, or
try to understand as best wecan to how folks are feeling
about not just the experiencewhen you come to an event but
our membership platform as awhole, and we place significant
(10:13):
internal resources across sales,across our data teams, across
our marketing teams thatconsistently help understand
what's driving value and measurethat year over year to try to
provide the best experience.
We can that, year over year, totry to provide the best
experience we can.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
And I think you touched on a very unique point
as well is that you know,understanding what the drivers
for me or for you or for yourdisparate audiences can be very
challenging, right?
So making sure you have theright kind of offerings you're
listening to and responding,because many brands are
challenged with truly listeningto and understanding their
customers.
And I think you mentioned too,which is a salient point, is
(10:46):
that different people havedifferent expectations of brands
and sometimes you may notnecessarily be able to meet all
those expectations right,because everyone probably wants
to meet and greet, they all wantmore potentially experiential
type opportunities, but you maynot be able to do that.
So how do you take all thatdata in and decide what you
should action on and then maybe,if things you don't action on,
(11:08):
how do you look at thoseopportunities?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah.
So I think there's a couple ofthings where we've tried to take
the program and one is justreally asking them at the
beginning of their membershipwhat are the things you value?
What type of membership do youutilize?
Is it more for clients?
Corporate clients are usingthis to drive your business
forward.
Are using this for time withyour family, time with your kids
.
All of that is collected at thebeginning of your membership.
(11:33):
To help activate everythingthat we offer you.
We have internal consultantsthat are really educated on
helping you get the value,whether, again, you have goals
around your investment as abusiness, to drive conversations
or help client relationships.
If you have families, you'regoing to be more invited to the
moments, events at the ClevelandZoo or youth camps, those types
(11:54):
of things.
So everything that we collect,we analyze, try to activate on
and then drive that into theexperience that you're going to
get for the rest of yourmembership.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Okay, we talked about emotional loyalty, right, kind
of a deep connection individualshave with brands, and sport
franchises is obviously one ofthem.
A lot of that is based on thisnostalgia.
You know family memories.
Your grandfather may have likeda team, your mom might have
liked a team, or you may evenroot for a team because your mom
liked a team, a different team,right.
(12:26):
So when you look at that uniquebond that you have, a brand,
you know sports franchises havethe opportunity to create.
You know how do they do thatand what does emotional loyalty
mean to you and the Cavs moreholistically?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, it's interesting.
This is something since I'vestarted my role.
We really haven't talked aboutenough because we hear it and
it's much more anecdotal ofpeople responding on social
media or you know, a positive ornegative, you know a negative
comment is not the worst thingin the world.
It's more apathy that we try toavoid.
If someone's passionate, that'swhere we want to be, but I
(13:02):
think from us, and my jobspecifically, is trying to
harness that, capture it in away that we can repurpose it
back to other prospectivemembers to try to communicate,
because we can't even talk aboutreally the emotional drivers
that people are experiencing.
Moment, or how would youdescribe your membership?
And the number one word wasn'tbasketball, wasn't win-loss, it
(13:30):
was family and that's how peopledescribed their relationship
with others.
That's how they described.
It's the one thing their familyhas in common, the one thing I
can utilize to spend time withmy child, and we need to use
that in storytelling.
We need to use that in contentfor our different channels and
our website.
So these are things we'restarting to do, but we're lucky
(13:54):
that people describe our productthis way and we just need to
activate on it more and that'swhat's really driving a lot of
our recent storytelling and arecent campaign content over the
past year.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Ok, and I'm not sure we talked about this, but how
long has the Cavs UnitedMembership program been out?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So Cavs United Membership has been a membership
platform, I would say in thelast 10 years we've rebranded
into more of a membership typeproduct.
I think season tickets obviouslyhave been around since the
beginning of you know as longback as I can remember as a
product that we sell, but it'sturned into more of a annual
activation, I would say withinthe last 10 years.
(14:35):
You'll see that across theindustry.
We do have Cavs Rewards as well, which is a brand new loyalty
platform.
That's separate, but our goalis to integrate it with cabs
united memberships in the future.
But that's more of um gettingaccess to special uh events and
arena perks, more for folks thatyou know you can access without
(14:57):
becoming a cabs united member.
Uh, and you earn points by uhspending um, by creating
transactions at arena partners,um that you can, you know, trade
in for, like I said, digitalachievements, vip experiences,
tickets, those types of things.
So that's that's our attempt to, to widen our, our loyalty out
(15:18):
to to folks that aren't uhpurchasing memberships, and
something we're excited aboutmoving forward okay, and and how
long has that program beeninvolved?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
A bit of-.
Yeah, it launched this year, soit's brand new.
It launched this year, yep,perfect.
So when you look at yourcustomer loyalty CX strategy,
you know how is it evolving.
You talked about, you know, thefirst program being around for
about 10 years focused on kindof that re-engagement, re-upping
of the membership and some ofthe benefit that goes along with
that.
How do you meld in the newprogram potentially to enhance
(15:49):
your customer experience,customer loyalty efforts?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
So that's really what I thinkis sports industry Sports
industry and sportsorganizations.
Try to look at growth.
I think the growth is the 99%of people that are never going
to step foot within the arena.
And how do we create productsor how do we engage those folks
and potentially help monetize orcreate services that they would
(16:13):
want to be engaged in?
So Chaos Rewards is really ourfirst attempt to say, hey,
here's an offering, here's atype of engagement model, here's
a way you can do that that'snot directly tied to your
engagement or your purchase oryour transaction within the
arena.
I think our challenge isputting all of these things
together into one seamlessplatform that will be clear and
(16:35):
consistent to all our consumers,and then expanding this
potentially globally.
So right now, these retailersare located generally in the
geographical area.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
How do we?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
expand that to other countries where we know we have
lots of saturation of fansBrazil, the UK, the Philippines.
So these are areas where we seejust massive growth.
I don't think we understand yetwhat types of products they
would be interested in, butthose are the areas where we see
it evolving and we're going tobe investing in in the future
(17:10):
that makes perfect senseAbsolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And when you look at that, when you merge two
programs you talked about kindof looking at surveys that you
conduct with your membersunderstand what they like, what
they potentially would like howdo you meld that all together?
Because technology is evolvingvery rapidly right with AI and
neural networks and others, buteven just from a MarTech
perspective, there's tens ofthousands of different platforms
(17:35):
you can use or potentially use.
Do they work together?
Do they not work together?
When you look at supportingtechnology, how do you look at
that?
Maybe the opportunity there tobring all of that together?
How do you evaluate or how doyou use technology to bolster
that emotional connection youhave or the customer loyalty?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I don't want to pretend I have it all figured
out, but that's the biggestchallenge for us.
I think we've done a good jobin the past few years of
investing in a data warehouse,investing in technology
solutions like Salesforce,Salesforce Marketing Cloud that
sit on top of that app providersthat we can help activate in.
We're doing some cool thingsthrough our data to help
understand, when people arriveto the arena, what food and
(18:18):
beverage do they constantlyorder that we could get out
ahead of and create meaningfulengagements for members or
prospects.
So some of it is, you know,trying to create, using the
technology to understand how wecan create those small special
moments, and the other is, youknow, rounding it out with
(18:38):
progressive profiling of ourmembers to help create the
experiences I talked earlierabout within Cavs United, and
then really researching what thefuture of the program should
look like.
So, what should membership be inthree to five years?
What would it look like foryounger fans potentially?
You know how do we createproducts that would reach out to
(19:01):
different target segments thattypically purchase our product
today, target segments thattypically purchase our product
today.
So, but yeah, the the we we trynot to be, you know, have a
vendor soup where we have, youknow, 15 or 20 different
platforms.
So I think, with what we havenow with Cavs or Rogers is
powered by up top.
It's baking that into ourcurrent technology stack and
(19:26):
trying to see how we expand intoother consumers?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Okay, you touched on a little bit engaging younger
generations.
You know they partake in mediadifferently.
They have a differentexperience and expectations.
Many brands are kind ofstruggling with getting them
involved in kind of a customerloyalty or customer experience
programs.
But when they do they find thatthey invariably can be very
(19:50):
advantageous to the brand right.
They can be very engaged.
What are you seeing with regardto kind of engaging a younger
generation with the fan base?
Are they, are they involved inthe program?
Do they like to come to thestadium?
You know how may they bedifferent than than other
audiences.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, it's obviously a big, big opportunity for us.
So I think and you're rightabout how they think about the
world differently, just from youknow outside the sports
industry how they have differentbehaviors, how they like to
engage communication thanactually team focus that's one
(20:30):
thing that's interesting to us.
But really our social platformsare the place that we engage a
lot of folks.
We have 36 million followersacross eight platforms.
A large percentage of those areunder the age of 30, obviously,
and we really have a brandstrategy within social to help
create things that are engagingto those folks.
So we try to blur the linebetween culture and basketball.
(20:52):
We try to stay relevant withconnecting what we're doing with
viral concepts or the meme ofthe week, and those do really
really well when we go out withthem.
We try to humanize our players.
So we try to do things like, uh, you know, buzzfeed style
quizzes we actually launched onetoday uh, that talks a little
(21:13):
bit about who they are and whatthey like.
And uh, we use visualstorytelling, high quality
content production, um and uh.
So that's more of how we wegenerally engage folks younger I
think for for actual ticketingproducts, we've done uh, more of
the products like standing roomonly tickets, monthly plans.
We have a really robust youthcamp program that's really
(21:35):
designed to engage folks andtheir children at a very young
age, obviously to get them to befans at the start and fans for
life.
We have really family-friendlyperks for members I talked about
.
You know, if you really utilizethis with your family, we're
going to really curate eventsand VIP experiences.
When their kid gets to hold theflag at the National Anthem,
(21:56):
parents are over the moon aboutthose types of experiences, just
watching their kids do thesethings, giving high-fives to
players.
We do unique merchcollaborations.
We're starting to partner withbrands like Lululemon and travis
matthew more golf, moreathleisure type so those are
popular with younger folks.
So, um, very expensive butpopular with younger folks um,
(22:18):
but overall, we see a hugeopportunity.
We we need to do more with,with with younger folks around
curating, but that gives you anidea of some of the things we do
.
That that is engaging.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
That's yeah it makes perfect sense and and those very
high-end experience rewards canbe great drivers, sweepstakes,
a way to engage the audience aswell they have some points
accrued and to keep themactively involved in the brand
too, especially, as youmentioned, those who may not be
coming to the stadium, right.
So getting a way to understandkind of their preferences and
(22:49):
interests and then gettinginvolved and coming to the
stadium is kind of an end goal Iwould assume that you want for
all of the 35 million, 38million people across all
channels, correct, yeah, yeah.
What's the next big thing forcustomer loyalty, customer
experience for the Cavs?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, I think we have a lot of data.
It's really how we activatethat.
So, how can wehyper-personalize communications
?
How can we create betterdigital experiences for our
members?
I think seamlessly integratingthe digital and the physical
experience of when you come tothe arena what type of
experiences are in our app thatare complimentary to your
(23:29):
experience, that you could alsoexperience if you don't come to
the arena I think AR, vr arehuge opportunities for
monetization and reallyimmersive experiences moving
forward.
You know, data-driven journeyoptimization for season ticket
memberships are typically thingsthat many believe could not be
(23:52):
sold online.
I differ with that opinion.
And trying to drive differentonline mechanisms for driving
higher priced products I thinkit's an opportunity.
Self-service UIs for customerservice.
How we integrate AI agents intothat.
So, and then then you know,personalized content.
I talked to rary at thebeginning about hyper
(24:12):
personalization, but you knowthe content that you want, uh,
within the channel you want.
So all things we're thinkingabout and trying to centralize
within our data platform, butthose are the things we're we're
focused on, definitely over thenext three to five years what
are two or three things thatyou're most proud of for your
programs?
Yeah, I think with Cabs Unitedmembership, it's been a staple
(24:35):
of our ticketing business.
It helps run and contributethrough.
We've had high renewal ratesthrough low demand years.
I think this year I'm mostexcited about using our brand
and our storytelling aroundemotional marketing and dipping
our toe into that and doing moreof it With Tabular Wars.
It's really launching theplatform.
(24:56):
We've hit a lot of our useracquisition goals.
We're driving value for somepartners locally and we have a
foundation to build from andit's been recognized as a league
best practice and somethingthat we're really excited about.
How we can build that in thefuture.
(25:19):
Okay, and what can Loapy360 doto help you and your team and
your customer with the journey?
Yeah, I think industry bestpractices, benchmarks, are
helpful.
Obviously, you all create aplatform to connect with peers
and shared learning, obviously,awareness for new technologies
and strategies, how to thinkabout ROI and measurements and
just insights into potentialevolving consumer behavior.
(25:40):
So a lot of those things I knowyou all focus on, but I think
just more of that is is ishelpful.
Okay perfect.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Well, now we have the wonderful quick fire round
questions.
They are a series of questionsthat we like to keep short, so
you know, one word or shortphrase answer is great, and
we're gonna start with what isyour least favorite word that
others use my least favoriteword that others use.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
word that others use Can't.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
What's your favorite food item at Rocket Arena?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Rocket Arena.
The pizza they have some goodNew York-style pizza here.
What excites you at work?
Innovation and buildingbusiness processes.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Excellent.
What do you find tiresomeome,either at work or at home?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I'm tiresome.
Kids YouTube on my, on my TVit's, it's, that's, that's
tiresome to me.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Okay, is there a book that you read, or you read that
you like, that you mayberecommend to friends or
colleagues?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, Peter Fader has three books on customer
centricity.
They're really really good andthey're a great place to start
if you don't really know whereto start.
I'd recommend them tremendously.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, we've had Peter on a few times.
He's led a couple of loyaltyuniversity sessions for our
audience around some things thatthey're doing at Wharton, but
also more holistically, howthey're looking at the market.
So, yeah, it's Love to meet him.
Yeah, he's a great guy.
What profession other than theone you currently work in would
(27:24):
you like to attempt?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Other profession PGA golfer.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Okay, Is there something that you enjoy doing
that you often don't get thetime to do?
I mean because you're busierthan before?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, with little kids.
I'd love to exercise more.
I don't get enough of that.
I try my best, but I think thatcenters me.
I'd love to exercise more.
I don't get enough of that.
I try my best, but I think thatcenters me.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I'd love to do more of it who inspired you to become
the person you are today.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I have a few mentors, but I would say Kevin O'Toole.
He's our VP of businessintelligence here and he's been
a mentor and someone I look upto tremendously.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Okay, and how do you want to be remembered by your
friends and family?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
That I cared about them and I showed up to them.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Excellent, perfect, well, thank you very much,
jeremy, for taking the time tospeak with us today.
It was great getting to knowyou and you know obviously more
about the Cavs and the kind ofcustomer loyalty efforts they
have Very intriguing.
We look forward to hearing morefrom you and the team in the
upcoming years about how theprogram evolves.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Absolutely.
Thank you, everyone else, fortaking the time to join us for
our Leaders in Customer Loyaltyseries.
Make sure you join us backevery Thursday for another
edition and until then, have awonderful day.
Few things ignite passion like professional sports
.
These aren't just games.
They are shared experiencespassed down through generations,
whether it's wearing yourparents' favorite jersey,
sitting in packed stadiums orwatching Demaryius Thomas Hall
in that unforgettable pass fromTim Tebow, sports create
emotional connections that shapeidentity and loyalty.
(00:24):
Placebo sports create emotionalconnections that shape identity
and loyalty, and few citieslive and breathe that loyalty
like Cleveland.
While I didn't grow up rootingfor Cleveland teams, I've always
respected the city's unwaveringdevotion.
The Browns, the Guardians andthe Cavaliers aren't just
franchises.
They're the heart of the city,woven into its culture.
Today we're shining a spotlighton the Cleveland Cavaliers and
(00:46):
their fiercely loyal fan base.
We're joined by Jeremy Halleck.
He's the Senior Director ofConsumer Marketing at the Cavs.
He's going to dive into how theCavs are driving fan engagement
, redefining customer loyaltyand fueling Cleveland pride
every day.
Jeremy, thank you very much fortaking the time to join us
today.
How are you Doing great?
(01:07):
Doing great.
How are you Doing well?
Thank you very much.
First off, for those who maynot know and I'm sure everyone
does can you give us a shortintroduction to the Cleveland
Cavaliers organization?
You know what's the backstory.
When was the team?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
founded?
Sure, so the team was foundedin 1970, actually so quite a
ways ago.
So we're part of the NationalBasketball Association.
We are part of RockEntertainment Group, which is
led by majority owner DanGilbert of Rocket Companies, and
it's really a conglomerate ofsports and entertainment
properties Cleveland MonstersCleveland Charge we help manage
(01:42):
Rocket Arena events.
Cleveland Charge we help manageRocket Arena events.
The team itself really isfocused on fan experience,
community, cleveland's vibrancy,helping rebuild the downtown
metro area.
We are located in Rocket Arena,which is in downtown Cleveland.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, a little bit more about your role in the
organization.
How did you get that position?
What do you focus on in yourrole, and were there positions
that kind of led you up to thisrole before your senior director
of consumer marketing role atthe Caps?
Yeah, so I?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
have a kind of I'd say intricate journey.
I started with the Cavaliersseveral several years ago, kind
of lent into more CRM emaildatabase analyst jobs, landed or
grew into a manager of databaseand CRM.
I left there for a couple ofyears, helped implement sports
(02:36):
specific software that attachesinto CRMs.
I came back into more of a datarole so I helped build out a
data operations team back withthe Cavaliers about seven years
ago and about two years ago Itransitioned over to a smaller,
newer role of consumer marketingthat helps consumer growth, how
we generate leads for differentticketing products, how we
(02:59):
market those products, how wedefine and manage our customer
journey on the web and otherchannels and really just
responsible for helping educatethose about the products that we
try to sell and then ultimatelycreating the best path and user
experience for customers andpotential customers.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Okay, when you look at kind of the macro, micro
environment right now lots ofchallenges, potentially
disruptions, but holisticallymarketing is something more
opportune but also a little morechallenging than it was maybe
in the past.
Lots of disparate technology.
How do you look at data?
How do you make actual insightsand derive them from the data
(03:39):
sets?
You know, when you look at thatholistically in your role, you
know what keeps you up at night.
What are the biggest challengesthat you face or maybe even the
opportunities that you face inyour current position?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I think that always feelinglike there's there's so much
opportunity, I think thatthere's, there's constantly.
You know, you're constantlytrying to create engagements in
multiple channels.
You're constantly trying tocreate engagements in multiple
channels, trying to understandwhere people want to be and
meeting them there in a worldwhere information is available
at your fingertips.
So what keeps me up at night isare there gaps in our customer
(04:13):
journey?
Are there people?
Is there information that we'renot serving them?
How can we elicit informationfrom folks to understand what
their needs are, what theirwants are within our product and
then within the communicationthat they're receiving around it
?
So you know, I told you I camefrom more of a more of a data
person than a marketer, whichhas actually helped me in my
role, because I really startedin a place where you know,
(04:38):
knowing that we need data in ausable format to help drive
personalization and help createdeeper engagement and try to
innovate the fan experience.
So I really think that you knowthose are the opportunities of
you can't just collect data, butyou need to activate it and
there's almost endless ways toactivate it.
But if you try to hone in onreally what are your goals?
(05:00):
What are your?
What products are you trying toeducate and really break it
down?
It helps you figure out how youtrying to educate and really
break it down.
It helps you figure out how youwant to use that data.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Excellent.
You know, sports fans loyaltycan be quite deep, maybe
irrational.
I'm a pretty big Denver Broncosfan.
My wife would say probably someof the worst experiences in her
life have something to do withme at a football game, them
losing and she being there.
So definitely a rationalloyalty rabid fans.
(05:28):
When you look at the loyaltyyou have for the Cavs, loyalty
to Cleveland sports teams runsvery deep.
Right, living in Cincinnati,I'm not a Cincinnati fan, but
they don't seem to have theaffinity that the Cleveland fans
do.
They're very loyal, sell-off toall of them, right.
But when you look at theemotional loyalty customer
loyalty to the Cavs you have aCavs United membership program
(05:52):
as well.
How does that fit into theoverall customer loyalty of the
organization?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So, yeah, cavs United , that is our official season
ticket member program.
I think you'll see, it's reallyan industry term where season
tickets is moving towards moreholistic annual membership
programs.
So we really focus on thetangible, intangible benefits
that we can create.
But it's basically a tieredprogram that helps reward our
(06:23):
most loyal and invested fans.
There's benefits and perks thatincrease as your investment and
tenure increases.
We offer things like exclusiveaccess, premium experiences.
But there's also a lot ofintangible things that people
express to us when we researchabout how they think about the
product, how they think aboutour organization, and Cleveland
(06:43):
is not a very transient city.
So we're lucky to haveextremely loyal, lucky to be in
a city and industry where peopleexpress such a love.
They talk about other fans likefamily.
These are the words they use inresearch that we do, and they
were just lucky.
But the programs that we create, especially Cavs United, is
(07:04):
really designed to lean intothat, to customize the
experience for individuals thatfind different value in
different things, but also,through our messaging, helping
them feel like they're part of afamily, that they can express
the pride and legacy throughgenerational membership and
they're helping contribute tothe civic vibrancy of downtown.
So all those things are one webake into the program but two we
(07:28):
feel like just is returned tous and we try to drive that
through loyalty with them.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Okay, and we'll look at it holistically.
What does customer loyalty meanto you and to the Cavs?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, that's a great question.
I think you know it's reallythe cornerstone of our fan
strategy.
I think you know it's to usit's really the deep emotional
connection, this feeling thatyou're belonging to something
bigger than yourself as a sharedidentity that you feel valued
through the things that we helpcreate.
We see a lot of support throughthick and thin of just team
(08:03):
performance.
You know we try to createthings where you will value.
Even if the team is not doingwell, you'll value everything
that we try to provide alongwith it and really everything
that you do is what we try toestablish through long term
relationships.
We prioritize significantresources internally,
(08:24):
cross-departmentally, throughstaff, through events, all sorts
of things to help everyone feellike your investment is
appreciated and we bake thatback into the fan experience
through every game.
That is an exciting thing to bea part of.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And you talked about a little bit baking into the
organization.
There is a significant amountof discussion right now within
our community the brandcommunity around customer
loyalty, how it's prioritized,how it should be focused on.
Is it a cost center, Is it aninvestment?
You touched on it a little bit.
How is customer loyaltyprioritized within your
organization?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
It's really we look at ourselves as leaders and fan
experience and the number onething we continue to invest in
from Dan on down is, just whenyou come to an event here, a
game, it's an experience like noother and we want to keep it
that way.
We want to keep it fresh,engaging, exciting.
You know it's a bit difficultto measure some of the
(09:29):
subjective opinions on what'smore valuable than the others or
some of the intangible feelingsthat come along that people
express.
But more in terms ofmeasurement, I think the things
that we look at, we try to havegoals for touch points with
members that are different withinvestment.
We look at satisfaction surveys.
We look at member tenure,renewal rates, event
(09:52):
participation.
We do a lot of qualitativefeedback through testimonials,
surveys, all of our referralactivities.
So all of those things arebaked into how we understand, or
try to understand as best wecan to how folks are feeling
about not just the experiencewhen you come to an event but
our membership platform as awhole, and we place significant
(10:13):
internal resources across sales,across our data teams, across
our marketing teams thatconsistently help understand
what's driving value and measurethat year over year to try to
provide the best experience.
We can that, year over year, totry to provide the best
experience we can.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
And I think you touched on a very unique point
as well is that you know,understanding what the drivers
for me or for you or for yourdisparate audiences can be very
challenging, right?
So making sure you have theright kind of offerings you're
listening to and responding,because many brands are
challenged with truly listeningto and understanding their
customers.
And I think you mentioned too,which is a salient point, is
(10:46):
that different people havedifferent expectations of brands
and sometimes you may notnecessarily be able to meet all
those expectations right,because everyone probably wants
to meet and greet, they all wantmore potentially experiential
type opportunities, but you maynot be able to do that.
So how do you take all thatdata in and decide what you
should action on and then maybe,if things you don't action on,
(11:08):
how do you look at thoseopportunities?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah.
So I think there's a couple ofthings where we've tried to take
the program and one is justreally asking them at the
beginning of their membershipwhat are the things you value?
What type of membership do youutilize?
Is it more for clients?
Corporate clients are usingthis to drive your business
forward.
Are using this for time withyour family, time with your kids
.
All of that is collected at thebeginning of your membership.
(11:33):
To help activate everythingthat we offer you.
We have internal consultantsthat are really educated on
helping you get the value,whether, again, you have goals
around your investment as abusiness, to drive conversations
or help client relationships.
If you have families, you'regoing to be more invited to the
moments, events at the ClevelandZoo or youth camps, those types
(11:54):
of things.
So everything that we collect,we analyze, try to activate on
and then drive that into theexperience that you're going to
get for the rest of yourmembership.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Okay, we talked about emotional loyalty, right, kind
of a deep connection individualshave with brands, and sport
franchises is obviously one ofthem.
A lot of that is based on thisnostalgia.
You know family memories.
Your grandfather may have likeda team, your mom might have
liked a team, or you may evenroot for a team because your mom
liked a team, a different team,right.
(12:26):
So when you look at that uniquebond that you have, a brand,
you know sports franchises havethe opportunity to create.
You know how do they do thatand what does emotional loyalty
mean to you and the Cavs moreholistically?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, it's interesting.
This is something since I'vestarted my role.
We really haven't talked aboutenough because we hear it and
it's much more anecdotal ofpeople responding on social
media or you know, a positive ornegative, you know a negative
comment is not the worst thingin the world.
It's more apathy that we try toavoid.
If someone's passionate, that'swhere we want to be, but I
(13:02):
think from us, and my jobspecifically, is trying to
harness that, capture it in away that we can repurpose it
back to other prospectivemembers to try to communicate,
because we can't even talk aboutreally the emotional drivers
that people are experiencing.
Moment, or how would youdescribe your membership?
And the number one word wasn'tbasketball, wasn't win-loss, it
(13:30):
was family and that's how peopledescribed their relationship
with others.
That's how they described.
It's the one thing their familyhas in common, the one thing I
can utilize to spend time withmy child, and we need to use
that in storytelling.
We need to use that in contentfor our different channels and
our website.
So these are things we'restarting to do, but we're lucky
(13:54):
that people describe our productthis way and we just need to
activate on it more and that'swhat's really driving a lot of
our recent storytelling and arecent campaign content over the
past year.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Ok, and I'm not sure we talked about this, but how
long has the Cavs UnitedMembership program been out?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
So Cavs United Membership has been a membership
platform, I would say in thelast 10 years we've rebranded
into more of a membership typeproduct.
I think season tickets obviouslyhave been around since the
beginning of you know as longback as I can remember as a
product that we sell, but it'sturned into more of a annual
activation, I would say withinthe last 10 years.
(14:35):
You'll see that across theindustry.
We do have Cavs Rewards as well, which is a brand new loyalty
platform.
That's separate, but our goalis to integrate it with cabs
united memberships in the future.
But that's more of um gettingaccess to special uh events and
arena perks, more for folks thatyou know you can access without
(14:57):
becoming a cabs united member.
Uh, and you earn points by uhspending um, by creating
transactions at arena partners,um that you can, you know, trade
in for, like I said, digitalachievements, vip experiences,
tickets, those types of things.
So that's that's our attempt to, to widen our, our loyalty out
(15:18):
to to folks that aren't uhpurchasing memberships, and
something we're excited aboutmoving forward okay, and and how
long has that program beeninvolved?
Speaker 1 (15:26):
A bit of-.
Yeah, it launched this year, soit's brand new.
It launched this year, yep,perfect.
So when you look at yourcustomer loyalty CX strategy,
you know how is it evolving.
You talked about, you know, thefirst program being around for
about 10 years focused on kindof that re-engagement, re-upping
of the membership and some ofthe benefit that goes along with
that.
How do you meld in the newprogram potentially to enhance
(15:49):
your customer experience,customer loyalty efforts?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
So that's really what I thinkis sports industry Sports
industry and sportsorganizations.
Try to look at growth.
I think the growth is the 99%of people that are never going
to step foot within the arena.
And how do we create productsor how do we engage those folks
and potentially help monetize orcreate services that they would
(16:13):
want to be engaged in?
So Chaos Rewards is really ourfirst attempt to say, hey,
here's an offering, here's atype of engagement model, here's
a way you can do that that'snot directly tied to your
engagement or your purchase oryour transaction within the
arena.
I think our challenge isputting all of these things
together into one seamlessplatform that will be clear and
(16:35):
consistent to all our consumers,and then expanding this
potentially globally.
So right now, these retailersare located generally in the
geographical area.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
How do we?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
expand that to other countries where we know we have
lots of saturation of fansBrazil, the UK, the Philippines.
So these are areas where we seejust massive growth.
I don't think we understand yetwhat types of products they
would be interested in, butthose are the areas where we see
it evolving and we're going tobe investing in in the future
(17:10):
that makes perfect senseAbsolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And when you look at that, when you merge two
programs you talked about kindof looking at surveys that you
conduct with your membersunderstand what they like, what
they potentially would like howdo you meld that all together?
Because technology is evolvingvery rapidly right with AI and
neural networks and others, buteven just from a MarTech
perspective, there's tens ofthousands of different platforms
(17:35):
you can use or potentially use.
Do they work together?
Do they not work together?
When you look at supportingtechnology, how do you look at
that?
Maybe the opportunity there tobring all of that together?
How do you evaluate or how doyou use technology to bolster
that emotional connection youhave or the customer loyalty?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I don't want to pretend I have it all figured
out, but that's the biggestchallenge for us.
I think we've done a good jobin the past few years of
investing in a data warehouse,investing in technology
solutions like Salesforce,Salesforce Marketing Cloud that
sit on top of that app providersthat we can help activate in.
We're doing some cool thingsthrough our data to help
understand, when people arriveto the arena, what food and
(18:18):
beverage do they constantlyorder that we could get out
ahead of and create meaningfulengagements for members or
prospects.
So some of it is, you know,trying to create, using the
technology to understand how wecan create those small special
moments, and the other is, youknow, rounding it out with
(18:38):
progressive profiling of ourmembers to help create the
experiences I talked earlierabout within Cavs United, and
then really researching what thefuture of the program should
look like.
So, what should membership be inthree to five years?
What would it look like foryounger fans potentially?
You know how do we createproducts that would reach out to
(19:01):
different target segments thattypically purchase our product
today, target segments thattypically purchase our product
today.
So, but yeah, the the we we trynot to be, you know, have a
vendor soup where we have, youknow, 15 or 20 different
platforms.
So I think, with what we havenow with Cavs or Rogers is
powered by up top.
It's baking that into ourcurrent technology stack and
(19:26):
trying to see how we expand intoother consumers?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Okay, you touched on a little bit engaging younger
generations.
You know they partake in mediadifferently.
They have a differentexperience and expectations.
Many brands are kind ofstruggling with getting them
involved in kind of a customerloyalty or customer experience
programs.
But when they do they find thatthey invariably can be very
(19:50):
advantageous to the brand right.
They can be very engaged.
What are you seeing with regardto kind of engaging a younger
generation with the fan base?
Are they, are they involved inthe program?
Do they like to come to thestadium?
You know how may they bedifferent than than other
audiences.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, it's obviously a big, big opportunity for us.
So I think and you're rightabout how they think about the
world differently, just from youknow outside the sports
industry how they have differentbehaviors, how they like to
engage communication thanactually team focus that's one
(20:30):
thing that's interesting to us.
But really our social platformsare the place that we engage a
lot of folks.
We have 36 million followersacross eight platforms.
A large percentage of those areunder the age of 30, obviously,
and we really have a brandstrategy within social to help
create things that are engagingto those folks.
So we try to blur the linebetween culture and basketball.
(20:52):
We try to stay relevant withconnecting what we're doing with
viral concepts or the meme ofthe week, and those do really
really well when we go out withthem.
We try to humanize our players.
So we try to do things like, uh, you know, buzzfeed style
quizzes we actually launched onetoday uh, that talks a little
(21:13):
bit about who they are and whatthey like.
And uh, we use visualstorytelling, high quality
content production, um and uh.
So that's more of how we wegenerally engage folks younger I
think for for actual ticketingproducts, we've done uh, more of
the products like standing roomonly tickets, monthly plans.
We have a really robust youthcamp program that's really
(21:35):
designed to engage folks andtheir children at a very young
age, obviously to get them to befans at the start and fans for
life.
We have really family-friendlyperks for members I talked about
.
You know, if you really utilizethis with your family, we're
going to really curate eventsand VIP experiences.
When their kid gets to hold theflag at the National Anthem,
(21:56):
parents are over the moon aboutthose types of experiences, just
watching their kids do thesethings, giving high-fives to
players.
We do unique merchcollaborations.
We're starting to partner withbrands like Lululemon and travis
matthew more golf, moreathleisure type so those are
popular with younger folks.
So, um, very expensive butpopular with younger folks um,
(22:18):
but overall, we see a hugeopportunity.
We we need to do more with,with with younger folks around
curating, but that gives you anidea of some of the things we do
.
That that is engaging.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
That's yeah it makes perfect sense and and those very
high-end experience rewards canbe great drivers, sweepstakes,
a way to engage the audience aswell they have some points
accrued and to keep themactively involved in the brand
too, especially, as youmentioned, those who may not be
coming to the stadium, right.
So getting a way to understandkind of their preferences and
(22:49):
interests and then gettinginvolved and coming to the
stadium is kind of an end goal Iwould assume that you want for
all of the 35 million, 38million people across all
channels, correct, yeah, yeah.
What's the next big thing forcustomer loyalty, customer
experience for the Cavs?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Yeah, I think we have a lot of data.
It's really how we activatethat.
So, how can wehyper-personalize communications
?
How can we create betterdigital experiences for our
members?
I think seamlessly integratingthe digital and the physical
experience of when you come tothe arena what type of
experiences are in our app thatare complimentary to your
(23:29):
experience, that you could alsoexperience if you don't come to
the arena I think AR, vr arehuge opportunities for
monetization and reallyimmersive experiences moving
forward.
You know, data-driven journeyoptimization for season ticket
memberships are typically thingsthat many believe could not be
(23:52):
sold online.
I differ with that opinion.
And trying to drive differentonline mechanisms for driving
higher priced products I thinkit's an opportunity.
Self-service UIs for customerservice.
How we integrate AI agents intothat.
So, and then then you know,personalized content.
I talked to rary at thebeginning about hyper
(24:12):
personalization, but you knowthe content that you want, uh,
within the channel you want.
So all things we're thinkingabout and trying to centralize
within our data platform, butthose are the things we're we're
focused on, definitely over thenext three to five years what
are two or three things thatyou're most proud of for your
programs?
Yeah, I think with Cabs Unitedmembership, it's been a staple
(24:35):
of our ticketing business.
It helps run and contributethrough.
We've had high renewal ratesthrough low demand years.
I think this year I'm mostexcited about using our brand
and our storytelling aroundemotional marketing and dipping
our toe into that and doing moreof it With Tabular Wars.
It's really launching theplatform.
(24:56):
We've hit a lot of our useracquisition goals.
We're driving value for somepartners locally and we have a
foundation to build from andit's been recognized as a league
best practice and somethingthat we're really excited about.
How we can build that in thefuture.
(25:19):
Okay, and what can Loapy360 doto help you and your team and
your customer with the journey?
Yeah, I think industry bestpractices, benchmarks, are
helpful.
Obviously, you all create aplatform to connect with peers
and shared learning, obviously,awareness for new technologies
and strategies, how to thinkabout ROI and measurements and
just insights into potentialevolving consumer behavior.
(25:40):
So a lot of those things I knowyou all focus on, but I think
just more of that is is ishelpful.
Okay perfect.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Well, now we have the wonderful quick fire round
questions.
They are a series of questionsthat we like to keep short, so
you know, one word or shortphrase answer is great, and
we're gonna start with what isyour least favorite word that
others use my least favoriteword that others use.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
word that others use Can't.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
What's your favorite food item at Rocket Arena?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Rocket Arena.
The pizza they have some goodNew York-style pizza here.
What excites you at work?
Innovation and buildingbusiness processes.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Excellent.
What do you find tiresomeome,either at work or at home?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I'm tiresome.
Kids YouTube on my, on my TVit's, it's, that's, that's
tiresome to me.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Okay, is there a book that you read, or you read that
you like, that you mayberecommend to friends or
colleagues?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, Peter Fader has three books on customer
centricity.
They're really really good andthey're a great place to start
if you don't really know whereto start.
I'd recommend them tremendously.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, we've had Peter on a few times.
He's led a couple of loyaltyuniversity sessions for our
audience around some things thatthey're doing at Wharton, but
also more holistically, howthey're looking at the market.
So, yeah, it's Love to meet him.
Yeah, he's a great guy.
What profession other than theone you currently work in would
(27:24):
you like to attempt?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Other profession PGA golfer.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Okay, Is there something that you enjoy doing
that you often don't get thetime to do?
I mean because you're busierthan before?
Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, with little kids.
I'd love to exercise more.
I don't get enough of that.
I try my best, but I think thatcenters me.
I'd love to exercise more.
I don't get enough of that.
I try my best, but I think thatcenters me.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
I'd love to do more of it who inspired you to become
the person you are today.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I have a few mentors, but I would say Kevin O'Toole.
He's our VP of businessintelligence here and he's been
a mentor and someone I look upto tremendously.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Okay, and how do you want to be remembered by your
friends and family?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
That I cared about them and I showed up to them.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Excellent, perfect, well, thank you very much,
jeremy, for taking the time tospeak with us today.
It was great getting to knowyou and you know obviously more
about the Cavs and the kind ofcustomer loyalty efforts they
have Very intriguing.
We look forward to hearing morefrom you and the team in the
upcoming years about how theprogram evolves.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Absolutely.
Thank you, everyone else, fortaking the time to join us for
our Leaders in Customer Loyaltyseries.
Make sure you join us backevery Thursday for another
edition and until then, have awonderful day.
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