For brands aiming to deepen engagement and create meaningful loyalty experiences, the traditional "earn and burn" model is no longer enough. In today’s Industry Voices, Mary Luckey, Reward Strategy Director at Maritz, shares her perspective on how loyalty programs must evolve to remain relevant — and why reward strategy is at the heart of that transformation.
With more than two decades at Maritz — and experience across both consumer and B2B loyalty programs — Luckey focuses on what she calls "the really fun part" of loyalty: shaping the rewards members earn. "My role is about working with account teams and clients to ensure they offer the right rewards — whether it's merchandise, gift cards, travel, or experiences — and crafting redemption experiences that truly drive loyalty," she explains.
At Maritz, the approach to customer loyalty goes well beyond points and transactions. Luckey describes loyalty as a relationship, not a straight line, emphasizing that customer engagement must be seen as a living journey rather than a single outcome. "Since Maritz has always focused on people and behavior change, we design loyalty journeys that tap into emotions," she says. For example, encouraging members who redeem for a major travel reward to create a photo book afterward helps them savor memories and dream about the next trip — subtly pulling them deeper into the brand experience.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Good afternoon and good morning.
This is Ethan Perry fromLoyalty360, welcoming you to
another episode of Leaders inCustomer Loyalty Industry Voices
.
In this series we talk to theleading agencies, technology
partners and consultants incustomer channel and brand
loyalty about what they'reseeing in technology trends and
(00:25):
best practices that impact theability of brands to drive
unique experiences, enhanceengagement and, most importantly
, build customer loyalty.
Today we have the pleasure ofspeaking with mary lucky, reward
strategy director at maritz.
Welcome, mary, I'm so glad youcould join us today hey, ethan,
I'm glad to be here.
(00:46):
To start off, can you just tellus a little bit about yourself,
your role with Maritz and yourbackground?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sure, I've been working in the workforce for
like a million years, let's faceit.
I started at Maritz in themid-90s and then I spent some
time at a couple of Merit'scompetitors and then, about 20
years ago, the mothership calledme home and I joined Merit's
and I've been the last 20 yearsbeen working on both consumer
(01:15):
loyalty and B2B loyalty programs, and my area of expertise is
reward strategy and basicallywhat that means is I get to
focus on the really fun part ofloyalty programs, so what the
members get for participating inthe program.
So my job is to work withaccount teams and clients to
(01:36):
make sure that they're offeringthe right rewards, whether it's
in-kind, gift cards, merchandise, travel experiences and
creating a reward and redemptionexperience that really drives
loyalty and helps clients growtheir business.
So it's a really fun job.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Amazing and you kind of touched on it a little bit
there.
But for those who may not befamiliar with how Moritz
supports brands' customerloyalty efforts, can you give us
a brief overview of what youguys do and the industries that
you work with?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sure.
So our motto is we engagepeople to elevate performance,
and we've been doing that forlike 130 years, so this is a
kind of going on, a fifthgeneration family-owned company.
We focus on channel, employeeB2B and consumer loyalty
programs and our emphasis isreally developing and delivering
(02:29):
powerful reward experiences,and we work across a really
broad range of industries,including financial services,
automotive, pharma,manufacturing, airlines and
hospitality airlines andhospitality.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So when you're talking about loyalty, how do
you define customer loyalty andwhat does it mean to your
organization?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So customer loyalty really refers to the
relationship that developsbetween a consumer and a brand,
and the stronger therelationship, the more loyal the
customer.
If the relationship is notstrong, guess what?
People stop being loyal.
So since Merits has always beenfocused on people and changing
(03:14):
behavior, we're really lookingfor ways to make that bond
stronger.
And in many programs what wehave seen over the years is
there's a really familiarpattern People enroll in a
program, they earn, they redeemand then what happens?
Right.
So we think about loyalty asnot a straight line, but as more
(03:37):
of a living journey.
So, for instance, if a customerredeems let's say they're in a
hospitality program and theyredeem for a five-night hotel
(04:00):
stay, they may be using up thebulk of their points.
Right, they've been saving fora long time.
We might subtly suggest thatthey redeem for a Shutterstock
gift card so they can make abook of their trip, so they can
savor the memories, they canstart dreaming about their next
vacation, and then they startperforming in the program.
So we're looking for ways totap into people's emotions so
(04:25):
that we can create that journeyas opposed to a linear
experience.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So in our most recent state of customer loyalty
report, 79% of the brands wesurveyed had an interest in
updating, enhancing orcompletely redoing their
customer loyalty offerings.
What enhancements or changesare brands most interested in
incorporating into theirprograms right now?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So you know, what's interesting is people don't join
loyalty programs to improve abrand's KPIs.
They actually want to get valuefrom the program and they want
to feel valued by the brand.
So that's why they're joining.
So many clients are realizingthat they can create more value
when they think beyond in-kindrewards.
(05:15):
You know many clients aresaying, oh, we've been doing our
own rewards for a long time,but maybe we need to be, you
know, offering other rewardstime, but maybe we need to be
offering other rewards.
We also are seeing more of ourclients add more experiential
rewards.
So in the the past year, theaverage American has attended 14
(05:36):
live events and Gen Z Americanshave attended 24 live events,
which just shows you thatexperiences are really for
everyone.
And one of the experiences thatwe offer our clients is we call
it a personal shopper serviceand it's a concierge service
that's designed for high pointearners and allows them to use
(06:01):
their points to redeem foranything they want, even if it's
not in the reward collection.
So we've had people use theirpoints for an engagement ring,
an RV, a new outdoor kitchen.
We've even had a couple thathave redeemed four times for
ghost hunting equipment.
So these are really nichethings that people are, you know
(06:25):
.
Talk about personalized.
Who would think to offer ghosthunting equipment in a loyalty
program?
Right, but because of theservice they can, they can get
that.
So what we're finding is, themore personalized we can make
the rewards, the more we can tapinto positive emotions.
Members are then going to feelvalue and feel valued by the
brand, and that's going to drivestronger loyalty.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Amazing.
So are there any specificindustries you see leading the
charge in loyalty programinnovations, and which ones?
What are they doing differentlythat you're seeing out there?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So what I'm seeing, as I'm sure a lot of people are,
is the two industries with themost innovation right now is in
retail and hospitality.
And with retailers, it's kindof obvious they have so much
data at their fingertips and AIis changing that the game every
day at their fingertips and AIis changing that the game every
(07:20):
day.
And since their rewards aretypically in kind, but it's kind
of a different in kind withretail because they can be
driven down to the SKU level.
So you know, this is whereyou're going to see a lot of
creativity, that I can see whatyou're doing, where you are
throughout the whole experience,and I think that's going to be
a big deal.
And then in the hotel andairline industries, there's a
(07:42):
lot of things that brands can doto provide members enhancement
during their travel experience.
So instant upgrades, priorityboarding, those kinds of things
keep things very fresh andrelevant, so that those kinds of
things keep things very freshand relevant.
And then also some very highend exclusive experiences where
you have to be in the top, toptier and you know, in order to
(08:12):
even get an invitation.
That's when people feel likethey're really in the tribe.
So you know, personalizationand real time rewards.
You know personalization andreal-time rewards.
It allows these brands to, youknow, reward people based on
their individual behavior andpreferences, because it really
isn't a one-size-fits-allanymore.
You have to think a lot moredeeply than you used to.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, and that kind of leads me into my next
question for you about.
You know we have a lot of newtechnologies that are emerging
in loyalty right now AI,gamification, new ways of
getting zero and first partydata collected for those
personalized experiences.
What do you believe will havethe greatest impact on loyalty
(08:49):
programs in 2025?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And why do you think that is so?
There's obviously there's tonsof new technologies popping up,
but I, you know, I think AI isthe one that's going to make the
biggest splash, because it'sjust evolving so fast and people
can't even keep up with how touse it.
I mean, obviously, you can useit to analyze purchase history
(09:11):
and preferences, but brands canalso use it to spot when
customers might leave and theycan step in before they do.
It can also, you know, helpoffer instant rewards based on
where people are and whatthey're doing.
You know you can even use it toprevent fraud.
And to me, again, it's just soexciting because you know, if
(09:33):
you can dream it, you canprobably make it happen.
So I think that you know, ifyou can dream it, you can
probably make it happen.
So I think that you know thisis the time when really creative
marketers in you know, workingwith data people are going to be
able to come up with some veryexciting things.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Awesome.
Well, to shift gears a littlebit.
What do you think are somecommon reasons that loyalty
programs are failing to meettheir goals right now, and how
do you think brands can addressthose kind of issues?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So obviously there's lots of reasons that programs
fail, like simple things, likeupside down economics, program
complexity, you know peoplecan't understand what to do.
There's not enough value in my,you know, in the rewards to get
my attention.
But one of a couple of thingsthat I have been following
lately really are programs thatdon't have a compelling reward
(10:25):
offer.
For example, I'm in that hotelloyalty program and I earn a lot
of points for business travel,but the last thing I want to do
in my downtime is redeem formore travel.
Right, I want to stay home.
You know I might want to use mypoints for a TV or a grill, so
don't keep telling me about morepoints to travel.
(10:48):
So choice is really importantin rewards to make sure you
really appeal to a wide range ofcustomers.
And then the other thing thatI've been watching and you'll
probably be able to relate tothis everyone should is that I
call it omni-channel overload.
So omni-channel marketing isreally important, right, but
(11:10):
during times of economic andsocial uncertainty and a lot of
stress, customers are becomingoverwhelmed with information and
they're starting to feelfatigued and stressed, and it
can cause customers to justquietly fade away.
They block your emails and youdon't even know it right.
So I think that marketersreally need to read the room and
(11:34):
deliver what people need in thecurrent environment.
And a couple ways to combatthis, I think, is to focus on
bringing value to members, maybeintroducing gift cards for
everyday restaurants.
If people are concerned thatthey don't know what's going to
happen with should they save orshould they spend, you can use
(11:55):
your points for restaurants oryou can take your family out to
dinner.
That's a way for you to dosomething special without being
worried about spending yourmoney.
Or you could provide a surpriseand delight to top members or
do a promotion, a sale,something that makes people feel
like, oh wow, I can use thesepoints for me, right?
I also think that people areresponding to nostalgia.
(12:18):
They want to go back to happiertimes, using things like humor
in your messaging, if your brandallows it.
But I think about those Jardiancommercials where people are
dancing around in the streetsabout, you know, diabetes, drugs
, but people are laughing.
Or the Will Ferrell commercial,levity and humor Bringing back
(12:42):
print.
So you know that has 100% openrate right now, because we don't
get print right.
But who opened the Amazoncatalogs this holiday season?
Everybody did.
Kids did, adults did, and evengetting back to basic human
beings, like with customerservice.
(13:03):
So you know, you may love yourairline app and you use it all
the time, but when your flightgets canceled, you do not want a
chat bot.
You want to talk to a livehuman being that can help you,
right?
So these are ways that we canhelp people feel valued and, you
know, combat some of thisomni-channel overload that we're
(13:26):
all feeling.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Awesome, some of this omni-channel overload that
we're all feeling Awesome sowithin those programs, and you
know when, we're employing a lotof those tactics.
Those are all great suggestionsand examples that you gave
there, but what are the mostcritical metrics that brands
should be looking at to measurethe success of loyalty programs?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So obviously there's.
You know the ones, we all knowretention, engagement, lifetime
value, loyalty.
Makers, marketers need to payattention to all that.
But I think something that'soverlooked are metrics that can
help you identify ways toimprove those core measurements,
like which redemptions drivethe best long-term behavior.
(14:06):
In our experience we found thatnot all rewards are created
equal.
So over the years we've donesome analysis and found that
members that redeemed for morememorable items, like experience
or merchandise, actuallyperformed better in their
program than those that redeemedfor more transactional rewards,
(14:27):
like gift cards or cash, thanthose that were deemed for more
transactional rewards like giftcards or cash.
So we have all this data at ourfingertips, and if we could do
those types of analysis and notjust make it at the high level,
what can you do to improve theprogram that would affect those
metrics?
So I think it's just somethingthat gets overlooked, but I
think it could really helpimprove program performance
(14:48):
looked, but I think it couldreally help improve program
performance.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
So, on a more personal note, are there
programs that you admire or thatyou're loyal to, from a
customer loyalty?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
perspective and what do you like about their
offerings?
So there's a couple that I'mloyal to that's going to make
you laugh, and then I'll tellyou the one that I find
compelling.
So Aldi doesn't have a program,but I'm absolutely loyal
because there's a culture there.
I don't know, have you everbeen to an Aldi Ethan?
I have, yes.
So the fact that you have tohave the quarter and you have to
(15:20):
walk up and I always leave mycart, you know, without a
quarter so that somebody can geta free, you know just the way
that you interact in the store.
So Kentucky fried chicken hasgotten me, five o'clock on a
Tuesday, $10 for eight pieces ofchicken.
I've stopped and Apple paid andgone and picked it up.
(15:42):
So, but those are a couple ofmy favorite, just because
they're so creative anddifferent, just the way they
capture my attention.
But I came across a reallyinteresting program a few months
ago out of the UK and it'scalled the Rafa Cycling Club and
it's basically a program forthe world's most popular cycling
(16:05):
apparel.
Now, I haven't, I really don't.
I'll occasionally ride a bikewhen I go to a park or something
, but I'm not a cycler.
But what's so cool about thisprogram is.
It's it's more like a communitythan it is a loyalty program,
and it's a it's an.
It's a worldwide community, andyou're you're not just entering
a relationship with Ralph withRalph, excuse me but you're not
(16:27):
just entering a relationshipwith ralpha, with rafa, excuse
me, um, but you're entering aglobal community of cyclists,
and their website says that itbeing a part of this program
means being a part of somethingbigger a riding community with a
friendly local spirit.
They have clubhouses and, um,you go on rides with an app
(16:48):
where you can connect withpeople all over the world while
you're cycling.
There's no points, it's allstatus and you actually have to
pay a membership fee, but youget real, really cool perks out
of doing it.
But to me, this is an exampleof how you can take marketing
and the creativity that I wastalking about and really create
(17:09):
this strong brand.
And what I imagine is if youcould have a program that's this
strong without points.
Imagine if, on top of that, youearn points.
So that's the kind ofinspiration that I find from
programs that just are doingsomething different.
And how can we take thosethings and, you know, put them
(17:29):
into more traditional,points-based programs?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
amazing.
Yeah, that's a great uh littlecase study there look it up.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
It makes me want to go right um, so we've touched on
a lot of different things todayalready, but what do you see as
the next big thing in customerloyalty?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So you're going to be surprised.
Personalization, I mean it'sjust hand in hand with AI, with
all the rich data sets.
The more data you can have, themore creative you can be about
this personalization, and then Ithink that that's going to be
the best way to connect with,with the brand cool um.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Do you have any closing advice or thoughts for
our audience?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
um.
So we're just going to befocusing on you know how to
create the best rewardexperience.
But specifically, some thingsthat we're going to be doing
over the next year is we'regoing to work on a few new
reward offerings that should beavailable soon.
More to come Advancements tofraud mitigation processes.
That is not fun, that's notcreative, that's not sexy, but
(18:41):
it's really important to clients.
And then we're going to beworking on enhancements to our
personalization on oure-commerce sites.
That's going to make theredemption experience more rich.
We're going to be providing ashopping experience that's tied
directly to your point balance.
So when you come to our site,you'll see what's within your
(19:03):
point range without having toclick anywhere.
It'll be brought to you.
So we're just going to reallybe focusing on keeping that
earning and burning experienceless linear and more of a
journey and creating the bestexperiences we can.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Awesome.
Well, that all sounds amazing.
We'll have to have you back onthe podcast later this year to
hear about your new offeringsand get updates on all of that
stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So that brings us to our world-famous quickfire
questions section.
We like to keep the answers tothese to one word or short
phrase, so we're going to jumpright into it.
How would you describe yourwork life Fun?
If you have a day or a week offfrom work, what are you doing?
Going on a road trip.
(19:51):
If you could live in any cityor country, where would you live
?
You may think this is boring,but it's St Louis Missouri, it's
home and I love it.
If you could go back to school,what would you study?
Philosophy.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
What facet of your job would you like to know more
about?
What's happening?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
in loyalty and reward programs in parts of the world
where I don't have a lot ofexposure.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
What facet of your job would you like to know less
about?
Performing manual tasks that AIis?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
soon going to take over what motivates you when
tackling challenges at Merits.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
There's so much potential with the people that I
work with at Merits that we canhelp our clients.
It's very exciting, awesome.
What is your favorite sport orhobby?
Reading well-written books.
I googled what books doesStephen King read?
And that's what I've beenreading.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Awesome, and what do you typically think about at the
end of the day?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
What's the funniest thing I've heard today?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Nice Well, mary.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to speak with us today.
We loved having you on Leadersin Customer Loyalty.
This episode of Industry Voiceswas awesome.
It was great getting yourperspective on customer loyalty.
This episode of industry voiceswas awesome.
It was great getting yourperspective on customer loyalty
and we look forward to learningmore from you and the team at
Merit's throughout the rest ofthis year.
(21:17):
I want to thank everyone fortuning in today to leaders and
customer loyalty.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to our leaders and
customer loyalty podcast andfollow loyalty 360 on YouTube
and LinkedIn.
Please join us every Tuesdayfor another edition of Industry
Voices.
And Mary, thanks again.
We look forward to having youback on soon.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Thanks, ethan, take care.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Alrighty.
Good afternoon and good morning.
This is Ethan Perry fromLoyalty360, welcoming you to
another episode of Leaders inCustomer Loyalty Industry Voices
.
In this series we talk to theleading agencies, technology
partners and consultants incustomer channel and brand
loyalty about what they'reseeing in technology trends and
(00:25):
best practices that impact theability of brands to drive
unique experiences, enhanceengagement and, most importantly
, build customer loyalty.
Today we have the pleasure ofspeaking with mary lucky, reward
strategy director at maritz.
Welcome, mary, I'm so glad youcould join us today hey, ethan,
I'm glad to be here.
(00:46):
To start off, can you just tellus a little bit about yourself,
your role with Maritz and yourbackground?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Sure, I've been working in the workforce for
like a million years, let's faceit.
I started at Maritz in themid-90s and then I spent some
time at a couple of Merit'scompetitors and then, about 20
years ago, the mothership calledme home and I joined Merit's
and I've been the last 20 yearsbeen working on both consumer
(01:15):
loyalty and B2B loyalty programs, and my area of expertise is
reward strategy and basicallywhat that means is I get to
focus on the really fun part ofloyalty programs, so what the
members get for participating inthe program.
So my job is to work withaccount teams and clients to
(01:36):
make sure that they're offeringthe right rewards, whether it's
in-kind, gift cards, merchandise, travel experiences and
creating a reward and redemptionexperience that really drives
loyalty and helps clients growtheir business.
So it's a really fun job.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Amazing and you kind of touched on it a little bit
there.
But for those who may not befamiliar with how Moritz
supports brands' customerloyalty efforts, can you give us
a brief overview of what youguys do and the industries that
you work with?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Sure.
So our motto is we engagepeople to elevate performance,
and we've been doing that forlike 130 years, so this is a
kind of going on, a fifthgeneration family-owned company.
We focus on channel, employeeB2B and consumer loyalty
programs and our emphasis isreally developing and delivering
(02:29):
powerful reward experiences,and we work across a really
broad range of industries,including financial services,
automotive, pharma,manufacturing, airlines and
hospitality airlines andhospitality.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
So when you're talking about loyalty, how do
you define customer loyalty andwhat does it mean to your
organization?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So customer loyalty really refers to the
relationship that developsbetween a consumer and a brand,
and the stronger therelationship, the more loyal the
customer.
If the relationship is notstrong, guess what?
People stop being loyal.
So since Merits has always beenfocused on people and changing
(03:14):
behavior, we're really lookingfor ways to make that bond
stronger.
And in many programs what wehave seen over the years is
there's a really familiarpattern People enroll in a
program, they earn, they redeemand then what happens?
Right.
So we think about loyalty asnot a straight line, but as more
(03:37):
of a living journey.
So, for instance, if a customerredeems let's say they're in a
hospitality program and theyredeem for a five-night hotel
(04:00):
stay, they may be using up thebulk of their points.
Right, they've been saving fora long time.
We might subtly suggest thatthey redeem for a Shutterstock
gift card so they can make abook of their trip, so they can
savor the memories, they canstart dreaming about their next
vacation, and then they startperforming in the program.
So we're looking for ways totap into people's emotions so
(04:25):
that we can create that journeyas opposed to a linear
experience.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
So in our most recent state of customer loyalty
report, 79% of the brands wesurveyed had an interest in
updating, enhancing orcompletely redoing their
customer loyalty offerings.
What enhancements or changesare brands most interested in
incorporating into theirprograms right now?
Speaker 2 (04:53):
So you know, what's interesting is people don't join
loyalty programs to improve abrand's KPIs.
They actually want to get valuefrom the program and they want
to feel valued by the brand.
So that's why they're joining.
So many clients are realizingthat they can create more value
when they think beyond in-kindrewards.
(05:15):
You know many clients aresaying, oh, we've been doing our
own rewards for a long time,but maybe we need to be, you
know, offering other rewardstime, but maybe we need to be
offering other rewards.
We also are seeing more of ourclients add more experiential
rewards.
So in the the past year, theaverage American has attended 14
(05:36):
live events and Gen Z Americanshave attended 24 live events,
which just shows you thatexperiences are really for
everyone.
And one of the experiences thatwe offer our clients is we call
it a personal shopper serviceand it's a concierge service
that's designed for high pointearners and allows them to use
(06:01):
their points to redeem foranything they want, even if it's
not in the reward collection.
So we've had people use theirpoints for an engagement ring,
an RV, a new outdoor kitchen.
We've even had a couple thathave redeemed four times for
ghost hunting equipment.
So these are really nichethings that people are, you know
(06:25):
.
Talk about personalized.
Who would think to offer ghosthunting equipment in a loyalty
program?
Right, but because of theservice they can, they can get
that.
So what we're finding is, themore personalized we can make
the rewards, the more we can tapinto positive emotions.
Members are then going to feelvalue and feel valued by the
brand, and that's going to drivestronger loyalty.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Amazing.
So are there any specificindustries you see leading the
charge in loyalty programinnovations, and which ones?
What are they doing differentlythat you're seeing out there?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So what I'm seeing, as I'm sure a lot of people are,
is the two industries with themost innovation right now is in
retail and hospitality.
And with retailers, it's kindof obvious they have so much
data at their fingertips and AIis changing that the game every
day at their fingertips and AIis changing that the game every
(07:20):
day.
And since their rewards aretypically in kind, but it's kind
of a different in kind withretail because they can be
driven down to the SKU level.
So you know, this is whereyou're going to see a lot of
creativity, that I can see whatyou're doing, where you are
throughout the whole experience,and I think that's going to be
a big deal.
And then in the hotel andairline industries, there's a
(07:42):
lot of things that brands can doto provide members enhancement
during their travel experience.
So instant upgrades, priorityboarding, those kinds of things
keep things very fresh andrelevant, so that those kinds of
things keep things very freshand relevant.
And then also some very highend exclusive experiences where
you have to be in the top, toptier and you know, in order to
(08:12):
even get an invitation.
That's when people feel likethey're really in the tribe.
So you know, personalizationand real time rewards.
You know personalization andreal-time rewards.
It allows these brands to, youknow, reward people based on
their individual behavior andpreferences, because it really
isn't a one-size-fits-allanymore.
You have to think a lot moredeeply than you used to.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, and that kind of leads me into my next
question for you about.
You know we have a lot of newtechnologies that are emerging
in loyalty right now AI,gamification, new ways of
getting zero and first partydata collected for those
personalized experiences.
What do you believe will havethe greatest impact on loyalty
(08:49):
programs in 2025?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And why do you think that is so?
There's obviously there's tonsof new technologies popping up,
but I, you know, I think AI isthe one that's going to make the
biggest splash, because it'sjust evolving so fast and people
can't even keep up with how touse it.
I mean, obviously, you can useit to analyze purchase history
(09:11):
and preferences, but brands canalso use it to spot when
customers might leave and theycan step in before they do.
It can also, you know, helpoffer instant rewards based on
where people are and whatthey're doing.
You know you can even use it toprevent fraud.
And to me, again, it's just soexciting because you know, if
(09:33):
you can dream it, you canprobably make it happen.
So I think that you know, ifyou can dream it, you can
probably make it happen.
So I think that you know thisis the time when really creative
marketers in you know, workingwith data people are going to be
able to come up with some veryexciting things.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Awesome.
Well, to shift gears a littlebit.
What do you think are somecommon reasons that loyalty
programs are failing to meettheir goals right now, and how
do you think brands can addressthose kind of issues?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
So obviously there's lots of reasons that programs
fail, like simple things, likeupside down economics, program
complexity, you know peoplecan't understand what to do.
There's not enough value in my,you know, in the rewards to get
my attention.
But one of a couple of thingsthat I have been following
lately really are programs thatdon't have a compelling reward
(10:25):
offer.
For example, I'm in that hotelloyalty program and I earn a lot
of points for business travel,but the last thing I want to do
in my downtime is redeem formore travel.
Right, I want to stay home.
You know I might want to use mypoints for a TV or a grill, so
don't keep telling me about morepoints to travel.
(10:48):
So choice is really importantin rewards to make sure you
really appeal to a wide range ofcustomers.
And then the other thing thatI've been watching and you'll
probably be able to relate tothis everyone should is that I
call it omni-channel overload.
So omni-channel marketing isreally important, right, but
(11:10):
during times of economic andsocial uncertainty and a lot of
stress, customers are becomingoverwhelmed with information and
they're starting to feelfatigued and stressed, and it
can cause customers to justquietly fade away.
They block your emails and youdon't even know it right.
So I think that marketersreally need to read the room and
(11:34):
deliver what people need in thecurrent environment.
And a couple ways to combatthis, I think, is to focus on
bringing value to members, maybeintroducing gift cards for
everyday restaurants.
If people are concerned thatthey don't know what's going to
happen with should they save orshould they spend, you can use
(11:55):
your points for restaurants oryou can take your family out to
dinner.
That's a way for you to dosomething special without being
worried about spending yourmoney.
Or you could provide a surpriseand delight to top members or
do a promotion, a sale,something that makes people feel
like, oh wow, I can use thesepoints for me, right?
I also think that people areresponding to nostalgia.
(12:18):
They want to go back to happiertimes, using things like humor
in your messaging, if your brandallows it.
But I think about those Jardiancommercials where people are
dancing around in the streetsabout, you know, diabetes, drugs
, but people are laughing.
Or the Will Ferrell commercial,levity and humor Bringing back
(12:42):
print.
So you know that has 100% openrate right now, because we don't
get print right.
But who opened the Amazoncatalogs this holiday season?
Everybody did.
Kids did, adults did, and evengetting back to basic human
beings, like with customerservice.
(13:03):
So you know, you may love yourairline app and you use it all
the time, but when your flightgets canceled, you do not want a
chat bot.
You want to talk to a livehuman being that can help you,
right?
So these are ways that we canhelp people feel valued and, you
know, combat some of thisomni-channel overload that we're
(13:26):
all feeling.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Awesome, some of this omni-channel overload that
we're all feeling Awesome sowithin those programs, and you
know when, we're employing a lotof those tactics.
Those are all great suggestionsand examples that you gave
there, but what are the mostcritical metrics that brands
should be looking at to measurethe success of loyalty programs?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So obviously there's.
You know the ones, we all knowretention, engagement, lifetime
value, loyalty.
Makers, marketers need to payattention to all that.
But I think something that'soverlooked are metrics that can
help you identify ways toimprove those core measurements,
like which redemptions drivethe best long-term behavior.
(14:06):
In our experience we found thatnot all rewards are created
equal.
So over the years we've donesome analysis and found that
members that redeemed for morememorable items, like experience
or merchandise, actuallyperformed better in their
program than those that redeemedfor more transactional rewards,
(14:27):
like gift cards or cash, thanthose that were deemed for more
transactional rewards like giftcards or cash.
So we have all this data at ourfingertips, and if we could do
those types of analysis and notjust make it at the high level,
what can you do to improve theprogram that would affect those
metrics?
So I think it's just somethingthat gets overlooked, but I
think it could really helpimprove program performance
(14:48):
looked, but I think it couldreally help improve program
performance.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
So, on a more personal note, are there
programs that you admire or thatyou're loyal to, from a
customer loyalty?
Speaker 2 (14:58):
perspective and what do you like about their
offerings?
So there's a couple that I'mloyal to that's going to make
you laugh, and then I'll tellyou the one that I find
compelling.
So Aldi doesn't have a program,but I'm absolutely loyal
because there's a culture there.
I don't know, have you everbeen to an Aldi Ethan?
I have, yes.
So the fact that you have tohave the quarter and you have to
(15:20):
walk up and I always leave mycart, you know, without a
quarter so that somebody can geta free, you know just the way
that you interact in the store.
So Kentucky fried chicken hasgotten me, five o'clock on a
Tuesday, $10 for eight pieces ofchicken.
I've stopped and Apple paid andgone and picked it up.
(15:42):
So, but those are a couple ofmy favorite, just because
they're so creative anddifferent, just the way they
capture my attention.
But I came across a reallyinteresting program a few months
ago out of the UK and it'scalled the Rafa Cycling Club and
it's basically a program forthe world's most popular cycling
(16:05):
apparel.
Now, I haven't, I really don't.
I'll occasionally ride a bikewhen I go to a park or something
, but I'm not a cycler.
But what's so cool about thisprogram is.
It's it's more like a communitythan it is a loyalty program,
and it's a it's an.
It's a worldwide community, andyou're you're not just entering
a relationship with Ralph withRalph, excuse me but you're not
(16:27):
just entering a relationshipwith ralpha, with rafa, excuse
me, um, but you're entering aglobal community of cyclists,
and their website says that itbeing a part of this program
means being a part of somethingbigger a riding community with a
friendly local spirit.
They have clubhouses and, um,you go on rides with an app
(16:48):
where you can connect withpeople all over the world while
you're cycling.
There's no points, it's allstatus and you actually have to
pay a membership fee, but youget real, really cool perks out
of doing it.
But to me, this is an exampleof how you can take marketing
and the creativity that I wastalking about and really create
(17:09):
this strong brand.
And what I imagine is if youcould have a program that's this
strong without points.
Imagine if, on top of that, youearn points.
So that's the kind ofinspiration that I find from
programs that just are doingsomething different.
And how can we take thosethings and, you know, put them
(17:29):
into more traditional,points-based programs?
Speaker 1 (17:33):
amazing.
Yeah, that's a great uh littlecase study there look it up.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
It's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
It makes me want to go right um, so we've touched on
a lot of different things todayalready, but what do you see as
the next big thing in customerloyalty?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
So you're going to be surprised.
Personalization, I mean it'sjust hand in hand with AI, with
all the rich data sets.
The more data you can have, themore creative you can be about
this personalization, and then Ithink that that's going to be
the best way to connect with,with the brand cool um.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Do you have any closing advice or thoughts for
our audience?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
um.
So we're just going to befocusing on you know how to
create the best rewardexperience.
But specifically, some thingsthat we're going to be doing
over the next year is we'regoing to work on a few new
reward offerings that should beavailable soon.
More to come Advancements tofraud mitigation processes.
That is not fun, that's notcreative, that's not sexy, but
(18:41):
it's really important to clients.
And then we're going to beworking on enhancements to our
personalization on oure-commerce sites.
That's going to make theredemption experience more rich.
We're going to be providing ashopping experience that's tied
directly to your point balance.
So when you come to our site,you'll see what's within your
(19:03):
point range without having toclick anywhere.
It'll be brought to you.
So we're just going to reallybe focusing on keeping that
earning and burning experienceless linear and more of a
journey and creating the bestexperiences we can.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Awesome.
Well, that all sounds amazing.
We'll have to have you back onthe podcast later this year to
hear about your new offeringsand get updates on all of that
stuff.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Love it.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
So that brings us to our world-famous quickfire
questions section.
We like to keep the answers tothese to one word or short
phrase, so we're going to jumpright into it.
How would you describe yourwork life Fun?
If you have a day or a week offfrom work, what are you doing?
Going on a road trip.
(19:51):
If you could live in any cityor country, where would you live
?
You may think this is boring,but it's St Louis Missouri, it's
home and I love it.
If you could go back to school,what would you study?
Philosophy.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
What facet of your job would you like to know more
about?
What's happening?
Speaker 1 (20:17):
in loyalty and reward programs in parts of the world
where I don't have a lot ofexposure.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
What facet of your job would you like to know less
about?
Performing manual tasks that AIis?
Speaker 1 (20:26):
soon going to take over what motivates you when
tackling challenges at Merits.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
There's so much potential with the people that I
work with at Merits that we canhelp our clients.
It's very exciting, awesome.
What is your favorite sport orhobby?
Reading well-written books.
I googled what books doesStephen King read?
And that's what I've beenreading.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Awesome, and what do you typically think about at the
end of the day?
Speaker 2 (20:54):
What's the funniest thing I've heard today?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Nice Well, mary.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to speak with us today.
We loved having you on Leadersin Customer Loyalty.
This episode of Industry Voiceswas awesome.
It was great getting yourperspective on customer loyalty.
This episode of industry voiceswas awesome.
It was great getting yourperspective on customer loyalty
and we look forward to learningmore from you and the team at
Merit's throughout the rest ofthis year.
(21:17):
I want to thank everyone fortuning in today to leaders and
customer loyalty.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to our leaders and
customer loyalty podcast andfollow loyalty 360 on YouTube
and LinkedIn.
Please join us every Tuesdayfor another edition of Industry
Voices.
And Mary, thanks again.
We look forward to having youback on soon.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Thanks, ethan, take care.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Alrighty.
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