In this episode of Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices, Loyalty360 sits down with Chris Jones, Senior Vice President of Engagement Solutions at ITA Group, for a detailed discussion on the evolving strategies driving customer loyalty in today’s competitive landscape. With decades of experience spanning consumer products, financial services, and retail, Jones brings a practitioner’s perspective to agency strategy offering tactical insights and evidence-based guidance to brands seeking to create meaningful, lasting customer connections.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Good afternoon and good morning.
This is Ethan Perry fromLoyalty360, welcoming you to
another episode of Leaders inCustomer Loyalty Industry Voices
.
In this series, we talk to theleading agencies, technology
partners and consultants incustomer channel and brand
loyalty about the technology,the trends and the best
practices that are impacting theability of brands to drive
(00:28):
unique experiences, enhanceengagement and, most importantly
, build customer loyalty.
Today we have the pleasure ofspeaking with Chris Jones,
senior Vice President ofEngagement Solutions at ITA
Group.
Welcome, chris, I'm glad youcould be here.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hey, good to see you, Ethan.
I'm glad to join.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Awesome.
Well, to start it off, can youtell us a little bit more about
yourself and your role with ITAGroup and your background in
loyalty?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, sure, I'd be happy to.
I'm with ITA Group.
I lead what we call ourengagement solutions, which
really goes across three keyareas.
The first, which we're reallytalking about today, is customer
loyalty.
We have also a practice inchannel incentives and loyalty
and, last but certainly notleast, we have an employee
engagement practice, and so weconsider those all our
engagement solutions.
(01:14):
I've been here a little aroundfour years.
Before that, on the agency side, I was actually the client.
So for 30 years I was a clientfrom Consumer Products and Mars
Incorporated to FinancialServices to most recently, about
eight years in retail.
And so that's what brings mehere to ITA Group to really
focus on retail consumer loyalty, helping our clients in that
(01:37):
space.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Awesome.
Well, that leads me to my nextquestion.
Some folks in our audiencemight not be familiar with how
ITA Group supports brands'customer loyalty efforts.
Can you give us a briefoverview of what you guys do and
the industries that you workwith?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Our industry collaboration ispretty diverse.
It's everything from automotiveto retail, to industrial
products, to manufacturers, somewho go through intermediaries,
some who go direct to thecustomer.
But in all those instanceswe're working with them on
customer loyalty or intermediaryand customer loyalty.
(02:13):
And one of the things that wereally practice is we think
there's six keys to a successfulloyalty program Strategy and
design.
The technology that operatesand maintains those programs.
The operation of that programday in, day out.
The creative services to bringall those to life.
The theme, the communications.
The redemption of orfulfillment of awards, if
(02:36):
there's tangible awards in yourprogram.
And last but certainly notleast, analytics and
optimization of the program.
And for our clients, in 90% ofthe instances we provide all
those services to them and thenin other instances we might be
just your operational support orjust your technology provider.
So that's kind of the way weapproach supporting clients in
the loyalty space.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Awesome.
Well, we also saw that ITAGroup recently released some
research on transformingcustomer loyalty programs.
That includes insights onthings like driving visits,
spend and market share.
Can you share more about thekey findings and what sparked
the need for this research?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's probably two thingsthat were going on to drive the
research.
We see oftentimes industrythought leadership around why is
loyalty important?
And I think for most companiesthey cross that bridge, they
know that loyalty is important,and so instead we focused on
what are the key drivers of thedesired outcomes from your
(03:36):
loyalty program and, as youalready mentioned, it's visits,
it's spend and it's share fromcompetitors.
And so what we did the researchfor is to really validate what
are the elements of the programthat drive those desired
outcomes and how do the 60programs we assessed quite
frankly stack up against oneanother in terms of meeting
those participants and membersand consumers needs.
(04:00):
The reason we did it is becausea lot of our existing clients
and prospective clients say whatis it about my program that's
hitting the mark and what aresome things about my program
that could be better?
So now we've got a really greatbasis to say these are the key
drivers of program success andwe can help clients evaluate how
they stack up against thosekeys to success.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Amazing, Awesome.
Well, you know, speaking ofresearch, in our most recent
state of customer loyalty reportat Loyalty360, we found that
79% of the brands we surveyedhave an interest in updating,
enhancing or redoing theircustomer loyalty offerings.
So how can brands strike abalance between innovating in
their loyalty programs andmaintaining consistency for
(04:43):
their existing customers?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's a great question and I want to back up a second
before I get to that, becauseour studies show that there's
two big drivers of success in aprogram value and ease.
And value actually drives threequarters of the benefits that
consumers perceive in theseprograms and ease is kind of a
table stakes.
So when we get to this questionof should I change, should I
keep consistency or should Ichange my program, it really
(05:09):
comes down to kind of a fairlyfundamental assessment, and that
is this if your loyalty programseems to plateaued, you're
maxed out in enrollment, you'reseeing waning behaviors, you're
seeing declines in the extent towhich your existing program is
able to move the needle on thosebusiness outcomes One, it's
(05:30):
probably time to say what shouldwe change?
And two, it's pretty low riskto make the change if you think
about it, because you're notgetting what you wanted to get.
On the other hand, if you sayyou know what, we've got all
those things and we're stillgrowing, we're still moving
behaviors, then consistency isprobably what's best for your
program.
But in either instance, even ifyou've got consistency, I think
(05:55):
there's the mechanics of yourprogram, but there's also those
unique experiential elements ofyour program, and so we find
that almost every program outthere, even if they're
continuing to do well, has anopportunity to lay in what we'd
call these signature experiencesthat are of and from your
specific brand.
So we find that that's anotherthing that a lot of clients
would say I don't want to changethe core of my program.
(06:15):
It's working Well.
What can I overlay on top?
And that's a place where wekind of have some specialization
as an agency specialization asa as a agency, amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Um.
So you already mentioned, youknow, that one of the key
takeaways from your research isvalue and ease as the two, you
know, big drivers of loyaltyprogram success.
Um, what are some ways brandscan provide value to their
customers to truly increase theoverall customer loyalty and
satisfaction?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
sure I think, um, the obvious part of value is what's
in it for me.
What's that exchange of value?
If I'm going to give you myinformation and track my
purchases and use your app oryour card or whatever it might
be, what do I get out of that?
So there is the fundamentalexpectation that I'm going to
get access to exclusive offers,promotions, deals.
(07:04):
It could be that it can also beaccess to offers that are
beyond your particular store.
And then the last thing couldbe what are the experiences,
what are the things that maybeI've got surprise and delight,
I've got a gift.
It's something that's not justpoints equal a free cup of
coffee.
It's my loyalty gives me accessto certain experiences, and
(07:27):
that's where you can layer inthose signature experiences and
make an emotional connection,because that is one of the
biggest drivers of theconsumer's perception that your
loyalty program adds value.
It's do I connect with anemotional.
So sometimes we focus on thedeals and those sorts of things,
but it's as much aboutemotional connection in some
instances, if not more, for yourmost valuable customers.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Absolutely, and that's something that we hear
about a lot right now from manybrands working on.
How do you effectivelyincorporate non-transactional
rewards, like exclusiveexperiences or benefits, and how
do you use that as part of yourloyalty strategy to strengthen
customer engagement?
Can you talk a little moreabout that and how those kind of
(08:08):
things can help differentiatecustomer loyalty programs?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Absolutely, and you used a word that I think is at
the core of the key to this, andthat is exclusive.
A lot of times you'll seeprograms say, oh, and when
you're a member of my loyaltyprogram, you get access to these
100 discounts at othercompanies, at partners, at
whatever it might be.
Those offers are not exclusive.
(08:33):
I can get them from somewhereelse.
I can get them from being partof AAA, I can get them from
being part of this program andthey're the same offers that you
have.
So we really emphasize thatpart about exclusive and one of
the things that we know is thatwhen you make it exclusive, your
best bet is not to look outsideof your business for those kind
of deals and offers is to lookwithin your brand and say what
(08:55):
is it about our brand, who weare and things that only we
would do.
And if you don't mind, I'llgive you a quick example from my
time in retail, when I was theCMO and chief merchant at
Casey's General Stores.
We launched loyalty for thefirst time and of course we knew
that we need to have points forwhat you bought and points for
fuel and ways to redeem fordiscounts on fuel and discounts
(09:17):
on your next pizza.
But what we did is we dug deeperand we said you know, casey's
had half of its stores in townsof 5,000 people or less, and
what we learned about thosetowns was that those towns
connected the success of theirlocal school as a proxy for the
vibrancy of their community, andso we created a program that
(09:39):
had the ability to turn yourpoints into a cash donation to
any K-12 school anywhere in theUnited States.
So what that meant is thatCasey's was not only present in
your community with a store,which is unique, but we had a
program where you could givecash to your local school, and
it connected the values of theconsumer, the values of that
community and the values of thebrand.
(10:00):
So that's an example I like toshare with people about how you
make something truly andunmistakably of your brand, and
if any other brand tried to pullthat off, it wouldn't have rung
true the way it did for cases.
Those are the kind of things welook for with our clients.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
That's awesome.
That's a perfect example andI'm sure that that really helps
drive loyalty within that brandand created brand advocates,
which is really, you know, oneof the things we look for as an
outcome of a healthy loyaltyprogram is brand advocacy from
the customers.
So can you give some adviceabout how brands can ensure that
their loyalty programs helpcreate stronger brand advocates?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I think some of it is sort of the things that
the industry is talking abouttoday.
Personalization you know it's amust, have it's table stakes,
but I don't think you canunderestimate the importance it
plays in driving advocacy.
And it's interesting because alot of times people will say
well, I need to take someextreme step of personalization.
(10:59):
And we often find that clientscan take really great steps
doing basic things.
For example, you have all thisfirst party data from all the
transactions your customers makeand you're sending out a
communication about some specialoffer and if you don't send the
image of the thing that thatparticular individual actually
bought, you've just missed anobvious opportunity to
(11:21):
personalize.
It might say, ethan in thesubject line, but if I show a
product that's not one of thethings you bought, I've missed
the opportunity.
So one emotional connectionpersonalization Again, I think
that's pretty clear andeverybody gets that and would
espouse that in the industry.
I think that's pretty clear andeverybody gets that and would
espouse that in the industry.
(11:42):
The second thing is it's notbecause loyalty programs are
discount programs, but consumersdo expect value.
They expect to be rewarded withsomething that exchange between
them and the brand about why doI bring my loyalty to you
Because you give me specialaccess.
So whether it's offers oraccess to experiences, that's
important.
And the third thing is justthose emotional connections.
So if you had a loyalty programthat's wildly successful for a
(12:05):
number of years now, we oftenask clients what experience, or
what tangible breakthroughtouchpoint, as we call them, do
you send to the top 1% of yourmost valuable customers every
year physically to their home?
And you kind of get a blankstare a lot of the time because
like, oh well, we don't do that.
It's like, well gosh, why doyour mechanisms?
(12:27):
You might have tiers, you mighthave special access that you've
given as people got morevaluable, but why not take some
simple opportunity to dosomething special, totally
unexpected, for your mostvaluable customer?
So those are the kind ofdimensions that drive the
advocacy, and that advocacy isperceived through value needs,
as our study demonstrated.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Awesome.
Well, on the flip side of thatis the fact that sometimes brand
detractors can be a realopportunity and detractors
complaints and lack ofcommitment can, you know,
actually help guide a brandtowards improving their loyalty
program?
Are there any metrics yourecommend brands track when it
comes to detractors to helpimprove their loyalty strategies
(13:08):
and change those outcomes?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I think there's two things I would advocate for
with detractors.
There's no doubt that you'regoing to get great value by
synthesizing and understandingverbatims, and I think you talk
about when you get negativefeedback.
What I would say is that forevery one person who sends you
some negative feedback aboutyour program, there might be 10
(13:33):
people who haven't sent you anynegative feedback, but their
purchase cycle is elongating,which is a predictive factor of
dissatisfaction.
Not everybody who's no longerfinding your program compelling
is going to write you a letter,send you an email, give you a
negative comment, because thattakes extra effort on their part
.
So we always like to say, yes,synthesize the verbatims, use
(13:56):
your tools, use your AI tool,get the themes out of that.
No doubt about that.
But also we think that watchingmetrics like elongated
engagement with your content orwith the behaviors the behaviors
are going to tell the story ofdetractors well before the
verbatim complaints will.
In our experience, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well, in a crowded marketplace where many loyalty
programs are offering similarrewards, how can brands really
differentiate themselves byfostering emotional loyalty and
building stronger, moremeaningful relationships with
their customers?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, I think you know some of it we I probably
already mentioned, so I'llrepeat myself just a little bit
which is we do think this kindof signature branded experience
is the key to successfulprograms and it's the key to
making those connections,because if you say airline X and
airline Y and airline Z, allhave their schema for dollars
(14:57):
spent, equals points.
Points turn into miles, milesturn into free flights.
We're not distinguishing amongthose.
But what does your brand standfor and how do you inject those
unique signature things that areof your brand, like the example
I gave with Casey's, and so Ithink that's probably more
important right now thanchanging again the table stake,
(15:17):
and so I think that's probablymore important right now than
changing again the table stakemechanisms.
But I think that's one thing wealways work closely with.
In fact, we have an approach wecall Epic design and we use it
originally for helping aconsumer, a client, design their
program from scratch.
And Epic is an acronym thatstands for empathy, purpose,
impact and context, and so eachof those is a lens through which
we view who is this brand in.
Epic is an acronym that standsfor Empathy, purpose, impact and
Context, and so each of thoseis a lens through which we view
(15:40):
who is this brand in businessand how do they connect best
with their end consumer, and weuse that to create the structure
of the program, the mechanics,but also those unique
experiential things.
So those are things I think canhelp drive successful programs
and uniqueness.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Excellent Thanks for sharing.
So, as you're looking forward,what do you see as the next big
thing in customer loyalty andwhat is ITA Group focused on as
we continue throughout 2025?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
analytics at the core of your program and I don't
think you can ever have too muchtest and learn or too much in
analytics for your program,because we have yet to find any
clients who have learnedeverything about the influence
they can have on their consumer.
So I don't know if it's the nextbig thing, but we're very
focused on making sure that ourplatform enables it at scale
with repeatability and test andscale quickly with successful
(16:42):
offers.
So I think increasing thevelocity that for clients and
with clients is really important.
Where we sit today and I don'twant to be your only guest that
doesn't use the two letters AIbut obviously all businesses who
work with technology anddeliver technology, like we are,
are looking in areasspecifically around next best
(17:02):
offer.
But I'd say we're moreintrigued by next best
opportunity, and what I mean bythat is offer is what should I
send to somebody, butopportunity is who the person I
should be targeting is, and wethink that's a more fertile
space in the coming 12 months,necessarily, than just next best
offer, because the next bestoffer can be estimated in a
(17:25):
pretty predictable and confidentway without AI, but next best
opportunity sometimes requiresmore of the tools of AI than
next best offer does.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Awesome.
Well, now we're moving on toeveryone's favorite portion of
the interview, the famousquickfire questions.
We ask that you keep the answerto a one word or short phrase,
and I'll jump right into it.
Okay, how would you describeyour work life?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Oh dynamic.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
If you have a day or a week off from work, what are
you doing?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
A day, we're probably at a soccer match.
A week, we're at the beach.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
If you could live in any city or country, where would
you live?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Probably San Diego Good city.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
If you could go back to school, what would you study?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Engineering.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
What facet of your job would you like to know more
about?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Client decision-making.
How do they go about choosingtheir partner?
What facet of your job wouldyou like to know less about?
Probably technical requirements.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
What motivates you when tackling challenges at ITA
Group?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Definitely motivated by measurable client impact.
And what do you drawinspiration from?
What lights your fire?
I like enabling change for ourorganization and for others.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And what is your favorite sport or hobby?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Sport, definitely soccer, Hobby probably music.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Awesome, and what do you typically think about at the
end of the day?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
At the end of the day I'm thinking about my three
sons' days.
I wonder what they did.
They're kind of spread a littlebit far and wide now, so I was
curious what was their day like?
What did they do today?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That's great.
Well, Chris, thank you so muchfor taking the time to speak
with us today on Leaders inCustomer Loyalty.
We loved having you for thisepisode of Industry Voices.
It was great getting yourperspective on customer loyalty
and we look forward to learningmore from you and the team at
ITA Group throughout the rest ofthis year.
I want to thank everyone fortuning in to Leaders in Customer
(19:37):
Loyalty today.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to the podcast
wherever you're listening andmake sure you follow and
subscribe to Loyalty360 onYouTube and LinkedIn.
The links are provided below,and don't forget to join us
every Tuesday for anotherepisode of Industry Voices, and
if you have any questions, feelfree to reach out.
Good afternoon and good morning.
This is Ethan Perry fromLoyalty360, welcoming you to
another episode of Leaders inCustomer Loyalty Industry Voices
.
In this series, we talk to theleading agencies, technology
partners and consultants incustomer channel and brand
loyalty about the technology,the trends and the best
practices that are impacting theability of brands to drive
(00:28):
unique experiences, enhanceengagement and, most importantly
, build customer loyalty.
Today we have the pleasure ofspeaking with Chris Jones,
senior Vice President ofEngagement Solutions at ITA
Group.
Welcome, chris, I'm glad youcould be here.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hey, good to see you, Ethan.
I'm glad to join.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Awesome.
Well, to start it off, can youtell us a little bit more about
yourself and your role with ITAGroup and your background in
loyalty?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, sure, I'd be happy to.
I'm with ITA Group.
I lead what we call ourengagement solutions, which
really goes across three keyareas.
The first, which we're reallytalking about today, is customer
loyalty.
We have also a practice inchannel incentives and loyalty
and, last but certainly notleast, we have an employee
engagement practice, and so weconsider those all our
engagement solutions.
(01:14):
I've been here a little aroundfour years.
Before that, on the agency side, I was actually the client.
So for 30 years I was a clientfrom Consumer Products and Mars
Incorporated to FinancialServices to most recently, about
eight years in retail.
And so that's what brings mehere to ITA Group to really
focus on retail consumer loyalty, helping our clients in that
(01:37):
space.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Awesome.
Well, that leads me to my nextquestion.
Some folks in our audiencemight not be familiar with how
ITA Group supports brands'customer loyalty efforts.
Can you give us a briefoverview of what you guys do and
the industries that you workwith?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Our industry collaboration ispretty diverse.
It's everything from automotiveto retail, to industrial
products, to manufacturers, somewho go through intermediaries,
some who go direct to thecustomer.
But in all those instanceswe're working with them on
customer loyalty or intermediaryand customer loyalty.
(02:13):
And one of the things that wereally practice is we think
there's six keys to a successfulloyalty program Strategy and
design.
The technology that operatesand maintains those programs.
The operation of that programday in, day out.
The creative services to bringall those to life.
The theme, the communications.
The redemption of orfulfillment of awards, if
(02:36):
there's tangible awards in yourprogram.
And last but certainly notleast, analytics and
optimization of the program.
And for our clients, in 90% ofthe instances we provide all
those services to them and thenin other instances we might be
just your operational support orjust your technology provider.
So that's kind of the way weapproach supporting clients in
the loyalty space.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Awesome.
Well, we also saw that ITAGroup recently released some
research on transformingcustomer loyalty programs.
That includes insights onthings like driving visits,
spend and market share.
Can you share more about thekey findings and what sparked
the need for this research?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's probably two thingsthat were going on to drive the
research.
We see oftentimes industrythought leadership around why is
loyalty important?
And I think for most companiesthey cross that bridge, they
know that loyalty is important,and so instead we focused on
what are the key drivers of thedesired outcomes from your
(03:36):
loyalty program and, as youalready mentioned, it's visits,
it's spend and it's share fromcompetitors.
And so what we did the researchfor is to really validate what
are the elements of the programthat drive those desired
outcomes and how do the 60programs we assessed quite
frankly stack up against oneanother in terms of meeting
those participants and membersand consumers needs.
(04:00):
The reason we did it is becausea lot of our existing clients
and prospective clients say whatis it about my program that's
hitting the mark and what aresome things about my program
that could be better?
So now we've got a really greatbasis to say these are the key
drivers of program success andwe can help clients evaluate how
they stack up against thosekeys to success.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Amazing, Awesome.
Well, you know, speaking ofresearch, in our most recent
state of customer loyalty reportat Loyalty360, we found that
79% of the brands we surveyedhave an interest in updating,
enhancing or redoing theircustomer loyalty offerings.
So how can brands strike abalance between innovating in
their loyalty programs andmaintaining consistency for
(04:43):
their existing customers?
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It's a great question and I want to back up a second
before I get to that, becauseour studies show that there's
two big drivers of success in aprogram value and ease.
And value actually drives threequarters of the benefits that
consumers perceive in theseprograms and ease is kind of a
table stakes.
So when we get to this questionof should I change, should I
keep consistency or should Ichange my program, it really
(05:09):
comes down to kind of a fairlyfundamental assessment, and that
is this if your loyalty programseems to plateaued, you're
maxed out in enrollment, you'reseeing waning behaviors, you're
seeing declines in the extent towhich your existing program is
able to move the needle on thosebusiness outcomes One, it's
(05:30):
probably time to say what shouldwe change?
And two, it's pretty low riskto make the change if you think
about it, because you're notgetting what you wanted to get.
On the other hand, if you sayyou know what, we've got all
those things and we're stillgrowing, we're still moving
behaviors, then consistency isprobably what's best for your
program.
But in either instance, even ifyou've got consistency, I think
(05:55):
there's the mechanics of yourprogram, but there's also those
unique experiential elements ofyour program, and so we find
that almost every program outthere, even if they're
continuing to do well, has anopportunity to lay in what we'd
call these signature experiencesthat are of and from your
specific brand.
So we find that that's anotherthing that a lot of clients
would say I don't want to changethe core of my program.
(06:15):
It's working Well.
What can I overlay on top?
And that's a place where wekind of have some specialization
as an agency specialization asa as a agency, amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Um.
So you already mentioned, youknow, that one of the key
takeaways from your research isvalue and ease as the two, you
know, big drivers of loyaltyprogram success.
Um, what are some ways brandscan provide value to their
customers to truly increase theoverall customer loyalty and
satisfaction?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
sure I think, um, the obvious part of value is what's
in it for me.
What's that exchange of value?
If I'm going to give you myinformation and track my
purchases and use your app oryour card or whatever it might
be, what do I get out of that?
So there is the fundamentalexpectation that I'm going to
get access to exclusive offers,promotions, deals.
(07:04):
It could be that it can also beaccess to offers that are
beyond your particular store.
And then the last thing couldbe what are the experiences,
what are the things that maybeI've got surprise and delight,
I've got a gift.
It's something that's not justpoints equal a free cup of
coffee.
It's my loyalty gives me accessto certain experiences, and
(07:27):
that's where you can layer inthose signature experiences and
make an emotional connection,because that is one of the
biggest drivers of theconsumer's perception that your
loyalty program adds value.
It's do I connect with anemotional.
So sometimes we focus on thedeals and those sorts of things,
but it's as much aboutemotional connection in some
instances, if not more, for yourmost valuable customers.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Absolutely, and that's something that we hear
about a lot right now from manybrands working on.
How do you effectivelyincorporate non-transactional
rewards, like exclusiveexperiences or benefits, and how
do you use that as part of yourloyalty strategy to strengthen
customer engagement?
Can you talk a little moreabout that and how those kind of
(08:08):
things can help differentiatecustomer loyalty programs?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Absolutely, and you used a word that I think is at
the core of the key to this, andthat is exclusive.
A lot of times you'll seeprograms say, oh, and when
you're a member of my loyaltyprogram, you get access to these
100 discounts at othercompanies, at partners, at
whatever it might be.
Those offers are not exclusive.
(08:33):
I can get them from somewhereelse.
I can get them from being partof AAA, I can get them from
being part of this program andthey're the same offers that you
have.
So we really emphasize thatpart about exclusive and one of
the things that we know is thatwhen you make it exclusive, your
best bet is not to look outsideof your business for those kind
of deals and offers is to lookwithin your brand and say what
(08:55):
is it about our brand, who weare and things that only we
would do.
And if you don't mind, I'llgive you a quick example from my
time in retail, when I was theCMO and chief merchant at
Casey's General Stores.
We launched loyalty for thefirst time and of course we knew
that we need to have points forwhat you bought and points for
fuel and ways to redeem fordiscounts on fuel and discounts
(09:17):
on your next pizza.
But what we did is we dug deeperand we said you know, casey's
had half of its stores in townsof 5,000 people or less, and
what we learned about thosetowns was that those towns
connected the success of theirlocal school as a proxy for the
vibrancy of their community, andso we created a program that
(09:39):
had the ability to turn yourpoints into a cash donation to
any K-12 school anywhere in theUnited States.
So what that meant is thatCasey's was not only present in
your community with a store,which is unique, but we had a
program where you could givecash to your local school, and
it connected the values of theconsumer, the values of that
community and the values of thebrand.
(10:00):
So that's an example I like toshare with people about how you
make something truly andunmistakably of your brand, and
if any other brand tried to pullthat off, it wouldn't have rung
true the way it did for cases.
Those are the kind of things welook for with our clients.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
That's awesome.
That's a perfect example andI'm sure that that really helps
drive loyalty within that brandand created brand advocates,
which is really, you know, oneof the things we look for as an
outcome of a healthy loyaltyprogram is brand advocacy from
the customers.
So can you give some adviceabout how brands can ensure that
their loyalty programs helpcreate stronger brand advocates?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Yeah, I think some of it is sort of the things that
the industry is talking abouttoday.
Personalization you know it's amust, have it's table stakes,
but I don't think you canunderestimate the importance it
plays in driving advocacy.
And it's interesting because alot of times people will say
well, I need to take someextreme step of personalization.
(10:59):
And we often find that clientscan take really great steps
doing basic things.
For example, you have all thisfirst party data from all the
transactions your customers makeand you're sending out a
communication about some specialoffer and if you don't send the
image of the thing that thatparticular individual actually
bought, you've just missed anobvious opportunity to
(11:21):
personalize.
It might say, ethan in thesubject line, but if I show a
product that's not one of thethings you bought, I've missed
the opportunity.
So one emotional connectionpersonalization Again, I think
that's pretty clear andeverybody gets that and would
espouse that in the industry.
I think that's pretty clear andeverybody gets that and would
espouse that in the industry.
(11:42):
The second thing is it's notbecause loyalty programs are
discount programs, but consumersdo expect value.
They expect to be rewarded withsomething that exchange between
them and the brand about why doI bring my loyalty to you
Because you give me specialaccess.
So whether it's offers oraccess to experiences, that's
important.
And the third thing is justthose emotional connections.
So if you had a loyalty programthat's wildly successful for a
(12:05):
number of years now, we oftenask clients what experience, or
what tangible breakthroughtouchpoint, as we call them, do
you send to the top 1% of yourmost valuable customers every
year physically to their home?
And you kind of get a blankstare a lot of the time because
like, oh well, we don't do that.
It's like, well gosh, why doyour mechanisms?
(12:27):
You might have tiers, you mighthave special access that you've
given as people got morevaluable, but why not take some
simple opportunity to dosomething special, totally
unexpected, for your mostvaluable customer?
So those are the kind ofdimensions that drive the
advocacy, and that advocacy isperceived through value needs,
as our study demonstrated.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Awesome.
Well, on the flip side of thatis the fact that sometimes brand
detractors can be a realopportunity and detractors
complaints and lack ofcommitment can, you know,
actually help guide a brandtowards improving their loyalty
program?
Are there any metrics yourecommend brands track when it
comes to detractors to helpimprove their loyalty strategies
(13:08):
and change those outcomes?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I think there's two things I would advocate for
with detractors.
There's no doubt that you'regoing to get great value by
synthesizing and understandingverbatims, and I think you talk
about when you get negativefeedback.
What I would say is that forevery one person who sends you
some negative feedback aboutyour program, there might be 10
(13:33):
people who haven't sent you anynegative feedback, but their
purchase cycle is elongating,which is a predictive factor of
dissatisfaction.
Not everybody who's no longerfinding your program compelling
is going to write you a letter,send you an email, give you a
negative comment, because thattakes extra effort on their part
.
So we always like to say, yes,synthesize the verbatims, use
(13:56):
your tools, use your AI tool,get the themes out of that.
No doubt about that.
But also we think that watchingmetrics like elongated
engagement with your content orwith the behaviors the behaviors
are going to tell the story ofdetractors well before the
verbatim complaints will.
In our experience, Awesome.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Well, in a crowded marketplace where many loyalty
programs are offering similarrewards, how can brands really
differentiate themselves byfostering emotional loyalty and
building stronger, moremeaningful relationships with
their customers?
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, I think you know some of it we I probably
already mentioned, so I'llrepeat myself just a little bit
which is we do think this kindof signature branded experience
is the key to successfulprograms and it's the key to
making those connections,because if you say airline X and
airline Y and airline Z, allhave their schema for dollars
(14:57):
spent, equals points.
Points turn into miles, milesturn into free flights.
We're not distinguishing amongthose.
But what does your brand standfor and how do you inject those
unique signature things that areof your brand, like the example
I gave with Casey's, and so Ithink that's probably more
important right now thanchanging again the table stake,
(15:17):
and so I think that's probablymore important right now than
changing again the table stakemechanisms.
But I think that's one thing wealways work closely with.
In fact, we have an approach wecall Epic design and we use it
originally for helping aconsumer, a client, design their
program from scratch.
And Epic is an acronym thatstands for empathy, purpose,
impact and context, and so eachof those is a lens through which
we view who is this brand in.
Epic is an acronym that standsfor Empathy, purpose, impact and
Context, and so each of thoseis a lens through which we view
(15:40):
who is this brand in businessand how do they connect best
with their end consumer, and weuse that to create the structure
of the program, the mechanics,but also those unique
experiential things.
So those are things I think canhelp drive successful programs
and uniqueness.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Excellent Thanks for sharing.
So, as you're looking forward,what do you see as the next big
thing in customer loyalty andwhat is ITA Group focused on as
we continue throughout 2025?
Speaker 2 (16:21):
analytics at the core of your program and I don't
think you can ever have too muchtest and learn or too much in
analytics for your program,because we have yet to find any
clients who have learnedeverything about the influence
they can have on their consumer.
So I don't know if it's the nextbig thing, but we're very
focused on making sure that ourplatform enables it at scale
with repeatability and test andscale quickly with successful
(16:42):
offers.
So I think increasing thevelocity that for clients and
with clients is really important.
Where we sit today and I don'twant to be your only guest that
doesn't use the two letters AIbut obviously all businesses who
work with technology anddeliver technology, like we are,
are looking in areasspecifically around next best
(17:02):
offer.
But I'd say we're moreintrigued by next best
opportunity, and what I mean bythat is offer is what should I
send to somebody, butopportunity is who the person I
should be targeting is, and wethink that's a more fertile
space in the coming 12 months,necessarily, than just next best
offer, because the next bestoffer can be estimated in a
(17:25):
pretty predictable and confidentway without AI, but next best
opportunity sometimes requiresmore of the tools of AI than
next best offer does.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
Awesome.
Well, now we're moving on toeveryone's favorite portion of
the interview, the famousquickfire questions.
We ask that you keep the answerto a one word or short phrase,
and I'll jump right into it.
Okay, how would you describeyour work life?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Oh dynamic.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
If you have a day or a week off from work, what are
you doing?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
A day, we're probably at a soccer match.
A week, we're at the beach.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
If you could live in any city or country, where would
you live?
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Probably San Diego Good city.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
If you could go back to school, what would you study?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Engineering.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
What facet of your job would you like to know more
about?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Client decision-making.
How do they go about choosingtheir partner?
What facet of your job wouldyou like to know less about?
Probably technical requirements.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
What motivates you when tackling challenges at ITA
Group?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Definitely motivated by measurable client impact.
And what do you drawinspiration from?
What lights your fire?
I like enabling change for ourorganization and for others.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And what is your favorite sport or hobby?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Sport, definitely soccer, Hobby probably music.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Awesome, and what do you typically think about at the
end of the day?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
At the end of the day I'm thinking about my three
sons' days.
I wonder what they did.
They're kind of spread a littlebit far and wide now, so I was
curious what was their day like?
What did they do today?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
That's great.
Well, Chris, thank you so muchfor taking the time to speak
with us today on Leaders inCustomer Loyalty.
We loved having you for thisepisode of Industry Voices.
It was great getting yourperspective on customer loyalty
and we look forward to learningmore from you and the team at
ITA Group throughout the rest ofthis year.
I want to thank everyone fortuning in to Leaders in Customer
(19:37):
Loyalty today.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to the podcast
wherever you're listening andmake sure you follow and
subscribe to Loyalty360 onYouTube and LinkedIn.
The links are provided below,and don't forget to join us
every Tuesday for anotherepisode of Industry Voices, and
if you have any questions, feelfree to reach out.
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