As brands face mounting pressure to create deeper, more sustainable connections with their customers, the role of loyalty strategy has evolved from transactional tactics to enterprise-wide engagement. For Michelle Sequeira Yee, Vice President of Consulting at Bond, this evolution isn’t just necessary, it’s urgent. Drawing on her experience leading customer and digital strategy at large national Canadian retailers, and on the agency side at McCann and Havas, Sequeira Yee now helps brands reimagine loyalty as a driver of business growth, using data, technology, and emotional relevance to build meaningful relationships across the customer base.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Good afternoon, good morning.
This is Mark Johnson fromLoyalty360.
I want to welcome you toanother edition of our Leaders
in Customer Loyalty series, theIndustry Voices podcast.
In these episodes, we have theprivilege of speaking with
leading agencies, technologypartners and consultants in
customer channel and brandloyalty about the technology
trends and best practices thatimpact a brand's ability to
(00:24):
drive unique experiences,enhance engagement but, most
importantly, impact customerloyalty.
Today, we have the pleasure ofspeaking with michelle sakara
yee.
She's a vice president ofconsulting at bond brand loyalty
.
Welcome, michelle, how are youtoday?
I'm great thanks for having memark first off, can you tell us
about yourself, your currentrole, withalty, and maybe a
(00:46):
little bit about your background?
How did you get into customerloyalty?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
For sure.
So I'll start with my currentrole, vice President of
Consulting at Bond Brand Loyalty, and really my focus is to
being accountable to BronzeVision, which is to be a trusted
partner to our brands that arereally focused on looking to
enhance customer engagement inwhatever format that looks like
to them.
Typically, it's to create amore profitable customer base,
(01:13):
provide more meaningful andrelevant experiences and really
career to affinity.
Back to the brand.
How I got here is reallythroughout my career.
How I got here is reallythroughout my career.
I've always had that connectionback to creating more sticky and
engaging customer relationships.
I spent over a decade on thebrand side.
Most of that time was withLoblaws, a leading grocer in
(01:41):
Canada, as well as a lifestylebrand in Canada as well, called
Indigo.
In both places, I was focusedon driving customer strategy and
digital strategy for userengagement features, and prior
to that, I spent some time atMcCann as well, leading customer
engagement.
So all that in totality, bondhas been a great place to put
those tools to use, especiallywhere we know the current
(02:03):
landscape is.
All brands have identifiablemembers right now.
It's not just throughformalized loyalty.
So our focus to help brandsacross their entire known
customer base is something thatjust rings really true to me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Excellent.
You talked about Bond being atrusted advisor in the kind of
the customer journey, in thebrand's journey.
I would love to know a littlebit more about that and how Bond
supports the customer loyaltyefforts of these brands that you
work with.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, definitely.
There is a multitude of ways,and really where we try to to
support brands is where they'refocused on their growth
strategies right now.
Ultimately, what we're tryingto do is support their
engagement strategies in a waythat can be sustainable and can
have those connection points toevoking loyal behavior.
(02:52):
So, whether a brand is lookingto design, optimize or just
better operationalize a loyaltyvalue prop, it could be they're
trying to integrate their datastrategy.
We know data is very fragmentedand getting to that right data
strategy to evoke loyalty is achallenge.
For most it could look like anoptimal communication strategy
(03:15):
for their e-com customers, oreven just having the right tech
stack or leveraging features ofthe technology most brands have
in place.
Many of them have licenses, butnot fully utilizing the
technology of those licenses,and we know that both data and
technology are leadingfoundations and groundwork for
any type of loyalty or customerengagement strategy you're
(03:38):
looking to drive.
So those are just a few flavorsof the types of solutions we
come in to help with.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You mentioned customer loyalty.
It should be kind of the fulsolutions we come in to help
with.
You mentioned customer loyalty.
It should be kind of thefulcrum for all marketing
efforts.
At least that's what we believe.
But we love talking withindividuals like yourself who
are so entrenched within theindustry.
You're seeing things from amultitude of verticals and
industries, you know, when youlook at customer loyalty, how do
you and Bond define customerloyalty and what does it mean to
you and the brands that youwork with?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
For me and for Bond, I think it's the same.
Where we think of loyalty asthe basis of that word.
It's an emotional connection,right?
It's ultimately positivesentiments all the way to
devotion and irrational behavior.
And what that means for brandspursuing loyalty is how do you
get consumers to choose yourbrand repeatedly, despite having
(04:30):
options?
That means they're drivingfurther.
That means they're coming toyou even though you're not the
cheapest option.
And so when we're helpingbrands with loyalty strategies,
it's not just about repeattransactions.
It's about how can we look tounderstand the optimal
conditions that meet thecustomer needs, as well as where
(04:51):
the brand is looking to grow,and how can we build smarter
engagement strategies or abetter program design, a more
relevant benefits mix,Ultimately looking at how can we
plant the seeds where loyaltyas an outcome can fundamentally
grow.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay.
In our most recent customerloyalty state of customer
loyalty report, we saw that 79%of brands have an interest in
updating, enhancing or redoingtheir customer loyalty programs.
The customer loyalty focus whatare you seeing in that regard?
Do you see specific industriesleading the charge in loyalty
program innovation?
If so, which ones?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Great question.
I think it looks a bitdifferent, dependent on sectors,
brands, dependent on theindustry they're in, is leading
innovation a little bitdifferently and I'll break that
down for you.
If you think about retailapparel, they're almost the
grandfathers of loyalty, if youwill, and what we're seeing is
(05:51):
they really are transformingtheir programs into becoming
more connectors of lifestyle, ifyou will, integrating more
closely into brand values andhow consumers are seeing those
values as a reflection ofthemselves.
So great examples Pantagonia,rei.
You can see how they areleaning into things like a
(06:12):
repair program or outdoorworkshops with REI.
And these are things beyondjust transactions to help live
the brand values and also helpcustomers have experiences
within loyalty that connect moreto why they come to that brand
in the first place.
Then you see brands like Adidasand Lululemon following Nike's
(06:35):
footsteps on integrating fitnessand wellness, building more of
that emotional connection.
So in retail we're seeing itfar transcend just transactional
value.
And in another sector groceryvery different, highly
commoditized we're seeing theminnovate more to the tune of
data right, how can they usedata to give customers more
(06:58):
informed choices?
Broadening the value propbeyond transaction through
partnerships.
We saw a lot of grocers getinto fuel partnerships.
Now we're starting to see thesegmentation of more financial
service partnerships and evengoing into aspirational like
travel.
So we're starting to see howthey're expanding their value
(07:19):
prop, getting more intonutrition, health and wellness,
as well as just more dynamiccommunications because of the
data that they're enabled with.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, you touched on a little bit the focus on
real-time personalization.
Real-time engagement is a bigpush for many verticals, but
there can be some challengesTechnology is the ZRI
substantiated?
Do you have the right data?
Can you use the rightorchestration engine to get to
that?
When you look at some of thosechallenges, what are the
(07:51):
barriers that you are seeingwith regard to, maybe,
technology or organizationalchallenges, and how can brands
overcome some of thesechallenges?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Sure, specifically on the data side, I think what
we're still seeing is brands,they have the data.
They're just very much stillfragmented.
It's sitting in differentsystems loyalty, pos, crm,
e-commerce and it's not asusable in real time as they need
(08:21):
it to be against the strategiesthey're trying to develop.
So it's really about how do weget them to think about an
integrated data ecosystem andthen, once they have that
ecosystem, the second gap thatwe're seeing is then marrying
action and insights, becauseit's one thing to now have the
knowledge of data and learnabout the behaviors, but then
(08:43):
you need to make sure you'reelevating that with the right
opportunities to drive behavior.
And where technology fits in is, you know, you need to have the
right technology platform thatthat data can then be supported
through and, as I mentionedbefore, a lot of firms and a lot
of brands have licenses thatthey're sitting on and maybe
(09:05):
multitude of technologyplatforms.
Are they using the rightfeatures of their tech stack?
Where can they optimize thetech stack to do more of what
they're trying to do and alsobridging the gap between the
technology roadmap and thecustomer engagement and loyalty
roadmap.
The two things need to kind ofdrive a little bit more in
(09:25):
harmony so that the outcome isachievable across the
organization.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay, the number of different technologies out there
Okay, there are a number ofdifferent technologies out there
.
Ai in all forms and fashion isthat just a new regression
analytics model that can betweaked?
Gamification, different partsof data platforms you mentioned
everyone has the right data, butnow you're getting more data.
Right.
You have zero-party data,first-party data, third-party
data.
We look at some of these newtechnologies.
(09:52):
The focus on data, marketorchestration Are there
technologies out there that youfeel are most important, that
brands should be consideringwhen looking at enhancing their
customer loyalty efforts?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I think it's really based on optimizing what they
have in-house.
I think most brands wherethey're at.
It's hard to fundamentallychange a platform without a
severe repercussion because, asI said, a lot of them have
identifiable customers.
They're communicating to thosecustomers.
It's a pretty big change.
So it's about how do we makesure they're planning the right
(10:29):
strategy to the technology theyhave, how do they find the right
partnership and the rightsynergy between those technology
and operating systems?
And then it's how do they usingAI as an enabler.
So once they have that datastrategy in place, you know, in
order to do things likegamification, without having the
(10:50):
right strategy and the rightenablers, gamification just
becomes a tactic and we want tomake sure that they're using
that in the right format,especially when we start
thinking about the increase ofzero party data and how
fundamental that is becoming tointegrating and personalizing
loyalty experiences.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Okay, when you look at your clients, obviously you
work in a number of differentindustries.
What is working right now whenit comes to building successful
relationships with theircustomers, successful customer
loyalty programs and strategies?
Can you give us an example oftwo or things that are working
within kind of your client base?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Sure, the one that comes to mind that's pretty
close to a lot of what we'vebeen talking about right now is
one of our clients, Bath andBody Works, and what they're
doing right is loyalty isintegrated into the overall
brand and their businessstrategy.
It's not treated as astandalone program, and why that
(11:47):
is really effective is becauseI think their earnings report
just came out a few weeks ago,is because I think their
earnings report just came out afew weeks ago and they talked
about 39 million members.
They're seeing growth acrossall categories, they're seeing
higher than before retentionrates and it's all driven back
to majority of sales comingthrough these loyalty members,
(12:08):
and so they're really thinkingorganizationally wide about how
they deliver value and customerexperiences.
That are part and parcel of theloyalty program.
Whereas with some brands it'streated as a program, it's
treated as a points or perkssystem, and so you have
different strategies that mightbe competing with each other,
(12:31):
and what I'll say with Bath andBody Works is they've also done
a great job about beingculturally relevant, and we hear
from brands a lot how do wedifferentiate, how do we tune
into the younger demographic?
And what Bath and Body Works hasrecently talked about is their
partnerships, collaborationswith Disney, Bridgerton,
Stranger Things You'll see thatthey are really tuning into what
(12:55):
matters to their customer base,what's creating memorable
connections, what createsexcitement.
And when we talk about loyaltyas an outcome and brand affinity
, you see how these things gohand in hand together.
So to me, that's the programthat really stands out.
Loblaws a Canadian grocer thatreally stands out.
(13:18):
Loblaws a Canadian grocer isanother example where loyalty is
a core.
It's the nucleus to theirlarger business and it's
integrated into everything theydo.
Whether it's offer generation,whether it's content or whether
it's retail media networkingthat they're getting into,
Loyalty is a fundamentalstrategy of their business as a
whole.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, when you look at customer loyalty programs, we
always like to ask are theresome programs you find yourself
loyal to from a customer loyaltyperspective and engagement
perspective, and if so, what doyou like about their offerings?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So this might sound like a broken record because you
probably hear it a lot Sephora.
This might sound like a brokenrecord because you probably hear
it a lot, Sephora.
I would say they've done agreat job at consistently
thinking about how to optimizetheir program and it's just not,
you know, great.
They had a leading loyaltyprogram.
They're leaving it alone andletting it kind of continue to
(14:10):
create value.
They are really focused on howdo I continue to listen to what
my customer needs are, how do Icontinue to be relevant, how do
I not just have a program that'ssurviving but thriving?
And so for me, you know throughyou know, been using Sephora for
decades, been a part of theirprogram almost since inception,
(14:31):
and it's still reallyinteresting to me as a consumer
to see how they've kept up withmy own changing needs, how
they've kept up with a veryaggressive competitive market
changing landscape, not justwith competitors in their same
vicinity but even withorganizations like Amazon.
(14:52):
So that is one that I findpersonally very interesting.
And a second one is McDonald's,and for me, I got reintroduced
to it through my teenage son andgetting to see the program from
his eyes and seeing how the waythey approach convenience as a
(15:13):
part of their program reallyspeaks to how immersed and how
relevant it is for him.
They make it easy to engage,it's top of mind and they are
evoking those emotional habitsand those loyalty triggers truly
by just tapping into the rightdigital experiences.
So those are the two thatreally stand out for me.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Okay, excellent when you look at 2025, challenging
politically, socioeconomically.
There's some challenges outthere.
How do you think consumerexpectations are evolving going
through 2025?
And how should brands, should Isay, be prepared to kind of
meet them on the second half ofthe year?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Great question.
We always talk about howloyalty is ever evolving.
I don't think that stands truemore than it does at this time.
You know, what used to work ayear or two ago isn't guaranteed
.
In fact, what used to work sixmonths ago is probably not
guaranteed anymore Becausethere's so much uncertainty in
(16:16):
the economic environment.
But there's also so much choiceand so many brands coming to
consumers with very similarpropositions.
So I think what's important isbrands really need to stay close
to their customer needs, theintersection of those needs to
where the brand is trying togrow and their growth objectives
, but also understand how dothey execute organizationally
(16:40):
wide and create those synergies,because that's really where it
comes to life is, you know,understanding how you're going
to meet customers where they'reat, understanding how we as an
org deliver on the same promiseand the same value, whether
that's online, whether that instore, whether it's online,
whether that in-store, whetherit's through an employee or an
associate connection or whetherit's through an app.
(17:02):
There are so many channels ofchoice and so much engagement
that for us at Bond, we'recommitted to staying at the
forefront of those consumerneeds, helping brands refine and
evolve and understand not onlythose shifts in customer
expectations, but the shifts inthe market landscape.
We're seeing new competitors,we're seeing a grocer competing
(17:26):
with Netflix in terms of thecustomer expectation on
convenience and choice, and sowe need to understand those
parallels in the market andwhere a consumer is looking at
their experience holistically,not just based on the sector
that you happen to be engagingwith them in.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay, any closing thoughts or pieces of advice for
our customers.
Maybe even what's Bond brandloyalty looking to do for the
remainder of 2025?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
For us as we continue into 2025, 2025?
For us as we continue into 2025, it's really encouraging our
customers to think across theirknown customer base, because
customer engagement isn't just asilo within your loyalty
program.
It's beyond points, it's beyondperks.
So how do we help our customersthink across brand engagement
(18:15):
and brand intersections overalland really start thinking about
rigor in everything to do withthe experiences you're creating?
How do you make them morerelevant, more meaningful?
How do you think about yourdata strategy across your known
customer base?
And then also, how do you thinkabout your operating P&L?
(18:35):
It may not be the mostinteresting thing but, as you
said, in this economic landscape, paying attention to just your
operating P&L becomes soimportant to make sure you have
the right forecast, the righttargets.
You're starting to gauge whereyou're seeing shifts and
patterns, connecting that backto what you're hearing from
customers, you're seeing in thedata and, ultimately, our focus
(18:58):
is to be a good partner that ourclients trust and that we can
together help them achieve moresustainable and more sticky
growth.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
OK, thank you very much.
That's a very interestingperspective.
I said you guys are definitelyone of the leading agencies and
technology partners for customerloyalty, customer experience,
so it's always great to hearfrom one of the leaders and what
they're seeing and hearing.
So thank you for taking thetime.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Appreciate your time, Mark.
It was great talking to you.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, hold on, hold on.
We have our quickfire questionsection.
Okay, we like to ask thesequestions, or a series of
questions.
Keep them short, or I get introuble with Nick and the
content team, and I'm always introuble with those guys, so like
I can get out for once.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
But the first question we have is what is your
favorite?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
word Possible.
What is your least favoriteword?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Can't.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
What excites you?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
A challenge that I haven't encountered before.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Awesome.
Is there a book that you'veread, that you find interesting
and helpful, that you'd like torecommend to colleagues?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Oh, yes, I actually have it right here Designing for
Behavioral Change.
So a colleague recommended thisto me.
So Bond has an institute that'sreally focused in understanding
consumer behavior and one of mycolleagues recommended this and
it's such a great tool tounderstand the psychology of
consumer behavior, which is justso apparent in today's market,
(20:27):
especially as we just talkedabout customer engagement.
So designing for behavioralchange definitely a record.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay.
Is there a profession, otherthan the one that you're
currently in, that you wouldlike to attempt?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No, it's psychology.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, is there something that you enjoy?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
doing that you don't often get the time to do.
Oh, just explore morerestaurants and see what new
things are in the city.
Don't get to do that enough.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Okay, who inspired you to become?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
the person that you are today.
Oh, several people, definitelynot just one that stands out.
I've had the tremendousprivilege of having a lot of
mentors, both personally andprofessionally.
Too many to name, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
What do you typically think about at the end of the
day?
I'm about tomorrow and what Ineed to tackle.
And the last question how doyou want to be remembered by
friends and family, someonewho's loyal?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
That's awesome.
Loyal loyalty that's good tohave that focus.
Yes, well, michelle, thank youvery much for taking the time to
speak with us today.
It's great having you on theLeaders and Customer Loyalty
series, the Industry Voicespodcast, great getting your
perspective on customer loyalty,and look forward to learning
more from you and Bondthroughout the remainder of 2025
.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Thank you, Mark.
I'm excited to see what youguys have coming up as well for
a lot of brands to engage with.
Excellent, Great Well.
Thank you very much, everyoneelse, for taking the time to
listen today.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to the Leaders in
Customer Loyalty podcast belowand follow us on YouTube as well
the links are definitelyprovided below and again, join
us every Wednesday when werelease a new edition of our
Industry Voices podcast.
Until then, have a wonderfulday.
Good afternoon, good morning.
This is Mark Johnson fromLoyalty360.
I want to welcome you toanother edition of our Leaders
in Customer Loyalty series, theIndustry Voices podcast.
In these episodes, we have theprivilege of speaking with
leading agencies, technologypartners and consultants in
customer channel and brandloyalty about the technology
trends and best practices thatimpact a brand's ability to
(00:24):
drive unique experiences,enhance engagement but, most
importantly, impact customerloyalty.
Today, we have the pleasure ofspeaking with michelle sakara
yee.
She's a vice president ofconsulting at bond brand loyalty
.
Welcome, michelle, how are youtoday?
I'm great thanks for having memark first off, can you tell us
about yourself, your currentrole, withalty, and maybe a
(00:46):
little bit about your background?
How did you get into customerloyalty?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
For sure.
So I'll start with my currentrole, vice President of
Consulting at Bond Brand Loyalty, and really my focus is to
being accountable to BronzeVision, which is to be a trusted
partner to our brands that arereally focused on looking to
enhance customer engagement inwhatever format that looks like
to them.
Typically, it's to create amore profitable customer base,
(01:13):
provide more meaningful andrelevant experiences and really
career to affinity.
Back to the brand.
How I got here is reallythroughout my career.
How I got here is reallythroughout my career.
I've always had that connectionback to creating more sticky and
engaging customer relationships.
I spent over a decade on thebrand side.
Most of that time was withLoblaws, a leading grocer in
(01:41):
Canada, as well as a lifestylebrand in Canada as well, called
Indigo.
In both places, I was focusedon driving customer strategy and
digital strategy for userengagement features, and prior
to that, I spent some time atMcCann as well, leading customer
engagement.
So all that in totality, bondhas been a great place to put
those tools to use, especiallywhere we know the current
(02:03):
landscape is.
All brands have identifiablemembers right now.
It's not just throughformalized loyalty.
So our focus to help brandsacross their entire known
customer base is something thatjust rings really true to me.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Excellent.
You talked about Bond being atrusted advisor in the kind of
the customer journey, in thebrand's journey.
I would love to know a littlebit more about that and how Bond
supports the customer loyaltyefforts of these brands that you
work with.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, definitely.
There is a multitude of ways,and really where we try to to
support brands is where they'refocused on their growth
strategies right now.
Ultimately, what we're tryingto do is support their
engagement strategies in a waythat can be sustainable and can
have those connection points toevoking loyal behavior.
(02:52):
So, whether a brand is lookingto design, optimize or just
better operationalize a loyaltyvalue prop, it could be they're
trying to integrate their datastrategy.
We know data is very fragmentedand getting to that right data
strategy to evoke loyalty is achallenge.
For most it could look like anoptimal communication strategy
(03:15):
for their e-com customers, oreven just having the right tech
stack or leveraging features ofthe technology most brands have
in place.
Many of them have licenses, butnot fully utilizing the
technology of those licenses,and we know that both data and
technology are leadingfoundations and groundwork for
any type of loyalty or customerengagement strategy you're
(03:38):
looking to drive.
So those are just a few flavorsof the types of solutions we
come in to help with.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
You mentioned customer loyalty.
It should be kind of the fulsolutions we come in to help
with.
You mentioned customer loyalty.
It should be kind of thefulcrum for all marketing
efforts.
At least that's what we believe.
But we love talking withindividuals like yourself who
are so entrenched within theindustry.
You're seeing things from amultitude of verticals and
industries, you know, when youlook at customer loyalty, how do
you and Bond define customerloyalty and what does it mean to
you and the brands that youwork with?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
For me and for Bond, I think it's the same.
Where we think of loyalty asthe basis of that word.
It's an emotional connection,right?
It's ultimately positivesentiments all the way to
devotion and irrational behavior.
And what that means for brandspursuing loyalty is how do you
get consumers to choose yourbrand repeatedly, despite having
(04:30):
options?
That means they're drivingfurther.
That means they're coming toyou even though you're not the
cheapest option.
And so when we're helpingbrands with loyalty strategies,
it's not just about repeattransactions.
It's about how can we look tounderstand the optimal
conditions that meet thecustomer needs, as well as where
(04:51):
the brand is looking to grow,and how can we build smarter
engagement strategies or abetter program design, a more
relevant benefits mix,Ultimately looking at how can we
plant the seeds where loyaltyas an outcome can fundamentally
grow.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay.
In our most recent customerloyalty state of customer
loyalty report, we saw that 79%of brands have an interest in
updating, enhancing or redoingtheir customer loyalty programs.
The customer loyalty focus whatare you seeing in that regard?
Do you see specific industriesleading the charge in loyalty
program innovation?
If so, which ones?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Great question.
I think it looks a bitdifferent, dependent on sectors,
brands, dependent on theindustry they're in, is leading
innovation a little bitdifferently and I'll break that
down for you.
If you think about retailapparel, they're almost the
grandfathers of loyalty, if youwill, and what we're seeing is
(05:51):
they really are transformingtheir programs into becoming
more connectors of lifestyle, ifyou will, integrating more
closely into brand values andhow consumers are seeing those
values as a reflection ofthemselves.
So great examples Pantagonia,rei.
You can see how they areleaning into things like a
(06:12):
repair program or outdoorworkshops with REI.
And these are things beyondjust transactions to help live
the brand values and also helpcustomers have experiences
within loyalty that connect moreto why they come to that brand
in the first place.
Then you see brands like Adidasand Lululemon following Nike's
(06:35):
footsteps on integrating fitnessand wellness, building more of
that emotional connection.
So in retail we're seeing itfar transcend just transactional
value.
And in another sector groceryvery different, highly
commoditized we're seeing theminnovate more to the tune of
data right, how can they usedata to give customers more
(06:58):
informed choices?
Broadening the value propbeyond transaction through
partnerships.
We saw a lot of grocers getinto fuel partnerships.
Now we're starting to see thesegmentation of more financial
service partnerships and evengoing into aspirational like
travel.
So we're starting to see howthey're expanding their value
(07:19):
prop, getting more intonutrition, health and wellness,
as well as just more dynamiccommunications because of the
data that they're enabled with.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Okay, you touched on a little bit the focus on
real-time personalization.
Real-time engagement is a bigpush for many verticals, but
there can be some challengesTechnology is the ZRI
substantiated?
Do you have the right data?
Can you use the rightorchestration engine to get to
that?
When you look at some of thosechallenges, what are the
(07:51):
barriers that you are seeingwith regard to, maybe,
technology or organizationalchallenges, and how can brands
overcome some of thesechallenges?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Sure, specifically on the data side, I think what
we're still seeing is brands,they have the data.
They're just very much stillfragmented.
It's sitting in differentsystems loyalty, pos, crm,
e-commerce and it's not asusable in real time as they need
(08:21):
it to be against the strategiesthey're trying to develop.
So it's really about how do weget them to think about an
integrated data ecosystem andthen, once they have that
ecosystem, the second gap thatwe're seeing is then marrying
action and insights, becauseit's one thing to now have the
knowledge of data and learnabout the behaviors, but then
(08:43):
you need to make sure you'reelevating that with the right
opportunities to drive behavior.
And where technology fits in is, you know, you need to have the
right technology platform thatthat data can then be supported
through and, as I mentionedbefore, a lot of firms and a lot
of brands have licenses thatthey're sitting on and maybe
(09:05):
multitude of technologyplatforms.
Are they using the rightfeatures of their tech stack?
Where can they optimize thetech stack to do more of what
they're trying to do and alsobridging the gap between the
technology roadmap and thecustomer engagement and loyalty
roadmap.
The two things need to kind ofdrive a little bit more in
(09:25):
harmony so that the outcome isachievable across the
organization.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay, the number of different technologies out there
Okay, there are a number ofdifferent technologies out there
.
Ai in all forms and fashion isthat just a new regression
analytics model that can betweaked?
Gamification, different partsof data platforms you mentioned
everyone has the right data, butnow you're getting more data.
Right.
You have zero-party data,first-party data, third-party
data.
We look at some of these newtechnologies.
(09:52):
The focus on data, marketorchestration Are there
technologies out there that youfeel are most important, that
brands should be consideringwhen looking at enhancing their
customer loyalty efforts?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
I think it's really based on optimizing what they
have in-house.
I think most brands wherethey're at.
It's hard to fundamentallychange a platform without a
severe repercussion because, asI said, a lot of them have
identifiable customers.
They're communicating to thosecustomers.
It's a pretty big change.
So it's about how do we makesure they're planning the right
(10:29):
strategy to the technology theyhave, how do they find the right
partnership and the rightsynergy between those technology
and operating systems?
And then it's how do they usingAI as an enabler.
So once they have that datastrategy in place, you know, in
order to do things likegamification, without having the
(10:50):
right strategy and the rightenablers, gamification just
becomes a tactic and we want tomake sure that they're using
that in the right format,especially when we start
thinking about the increase ofzero party data and how
fundamental that is becoming tointegrating and personalizing
loyalty experiences.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Okay, when you look at your clients, obviously you
work in a number of differentindustries.
What is working right now whenit comes to building successful
relationships with theircustomers, successful customer
loyalty programs and strategies?
Can you give us an example oftwo or things that are working
within kind of your client base?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Sure, the one that comes to mind that's pretty
close to a lot of what we'vebeen talking about right now is
one of our clients, Bath andBody Works, and what they're
doing right is loyalty isintegrated into the overall
brand and their businessstrategy.
It's not treated as astandalone program, and why that
(11:47):
is really effective is becauseI think their earnings report
just came out a few weeks ago,is because I think their
earnings report just came out afew weeks ago and they talked
about 39 million members.
They're seeing growth acrossall categories, they're seeing
higher than before retentionrates and it's all driven back
to majority of sales comingthrough these loyalty members,
(12:08):
and so they're really thinkingorganizationally wide about how
they deliver value and customerexperiences.
That are part and parcel of theloyalty program.
Whereas with some brands it'streated as a program, it's
treated as a points or perkssystem, and so you have
different strategies that mightbe competing with each other,
(12:31):
and what I'll say with Bath andBody Works is they've also done
a great job about beingculturally relevant, and we hear
from brands a lot how do wedifferentiate, how do we tune
into the younger demographic?
And what Bath and Body Works hasrecently talked about is their
partnerships, collaborationswith Disney, Bridgerton,
Stranger Things You'll see thatthey are really tuning into what
(12:55):
matters to their customer base,what's creating memorable
connections, what createsexcitement.
And when we talk about loyaltyas an outcome and brand affinity
, you see how these things gohand in hand together.
So to me, that's the programthat really stands out.
Loblaws a Canadian grocer thatreally stands out.
(13:18):
Loblaws a Canadian grocer isanother example where loyalty is
a core.
It's the nucleus to theirlarger business and it's
integrated into everything theydo.
Whether it's offer generation,whether it's content or whether
it's retail media networkingthat they're getting into,
Loyalty is a fundamentalstrategy of their business as a
whole.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Okay, when you look at customer loyalty programs, we
always like to ask are theresome programs you find yourself
loyal to from a customer loyaltyperspective and engagement
perspective, and if so, what doyou like about their offerings?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
So this might sound like a broken record because you
probably hear it a lot Sephora.
This might sound like a brokenrecord because you probably hear
it a lot, Sephora.
I would say they've done agreat job at consistently
thinking about how to optimizetheir program and it's just not,
you know, great.
They had a leading loyaltyprogram.
They're leaving it alone andletting it kind of continue to
(14:10):
create value.
They are really focused on howdo I continue to listen to what
my customer needs are, how do Icontinue to be relevant, how do
I not just have a program that'ssurviving but thriving?
And so for me, you know throughyou know, been using Sephora for
decades, been a part of theirprogram almost since inception,
(14:31):
and it's still reallyinteresting to me as a consumer
to see how they've kept up withmy own changing needs, how
they've kept up with a veryaggressive competitive market
changing landscape, not justwith competitors in their same
vicinity but even withorganizations like Amazon.
(14:52):
So that is one that I findpersonally very interesting.
And a second one is McDonald's,and for me, I got reintroduced
to it through my teenage son andgetting to see the program from
his eyes and seeing how the waythey approach convenience as a
(15:13):
part of their program reallyspeaks to how immersed and how
relevant it is for him.
They make it easy to engage,it's top of mind and they are
evoking those emotional habitsand those loyalty triggers truly
by just tapping into the rightdigital experiences.
So those are the two thatreally stand out for me.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Okay, excellent when you look at 2025, challenging
politically, socioeconomically.
There's some challenges outthere.
How do you think consumerexpectations are evolving going
through 2025?
And how should brands, should Isay, be prepared to kind of
meet them on the second half ofthe year?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Great question.
We always talk about howloyalty is ever evolving.
I don't think that stands truemore than it does at this time.
You know, what used to work ayear or two ago isn't guaranteed
.
In fact, what used to work sixmonths ago is probably not
guaranteed anymore Becausethere's so much uncertainty in
(16:16):
the economic environment.
But there's also so much choiceand so many brands coming to
consumers with very similarpropositions.
So I think what's important isbrands really need to stay close
to their customer needs, theintersection of those needs to
where the brand is trying togrow and their growth objectives
, but also understand how dothey execute organizationally
(16:40):
wide and create those synergies,because that's really where it
comes to life is, you know,understanding how you're going
to meet customers where they'reat, understanding how we as an
org deliver on the same promiseand the same value, whether
that's online, whether that instore, whether it's online,
whether that in-store, whetherit's through an employee or an
associate connection or whetherit's through an app.
(17:02):
There are so many channels ofchoice and so much engagement
that for us at Bond, we'recommitted to staying at the
forefront of those consumerneeds, helping brands refine and
evolve and understand not onlythose shifts in customer
expectations, but the shifts inthe market landscape.
We're seeing new competitors,we're seeing a grocer competing
(17:26):
with Netflix in terms of thecustomer expectation on
convenience and choice, and sowe need to understand those
parallels in the market andwhere a consumer is looking at
their experience holistically,not just based on the sector
that you happen to be engagingwith them in.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay, any closing thoughts or pieces of advice for
our customers.
Maybe even what's Bond brandloyalty looking to do for the
remainder of 2025?
Speaker 2 (17:55):
For us as we continue into 2025, 2025?
For us as we continue into 2025, it's really encouraging our
customers to think across theirknown customer base, because
customer engagement isn't just asilo within your loyalty
program.
It's beyond points, it's beyondperks.
So how do we help our customersthink across brand engagement
(18:15):
and brand intersections overalland really start thinking about
rigor in everything to do withthe experiences you're creating?
How do you make them morerelevant, more meaningful?
How do you think about yourdata strategy across your known
customer base?
And then also, how do you thinkabout your operating P&L?
(18:35):
It may not be the mostinteresting thing but, as you
said, in this economic landscape, paying attention to just your
operating P&L becomes soimportant to make sure you have
the right forecast, the righttargets.
You're starting to gauge whereyou're seeing shifts and
patterns, connecting that backto what you're hearing from
customers, you're seeing in thedata and, ultimately, our focus
(18:58):
is to be a good partner that ourclients trust and that we can
together help them achieve moresustainable and more sticky
growth.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
OK, thank you very much.
That's a very interestingperspective.
I said you guys are definitelyone of the leading agencies and
technology partners for customerloyalty, customer experience,
so it's always great to hearfrom one of the leaders and what
they're seeing and hearing.
So thank you for taking thetime.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Appreciate your time, Mark.
It was great talking to you.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, hold on, hold on.
We have our quickfire questionsection.
Okay, we like to ask thesequestions, or a series of
questions.
Keep them short, or I get introuble with Nick and the
content team, and I'm always introuble with those guys, so like
I can get out for once.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
But the first question we have is what is your
favorite?
Speaker 1 (19:50):
word Possible.
What is your least favoriteword?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Can't.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
What excites you?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
A challenge that I haven't encountered before.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Awesome.
Is there a book that you'veread, that you find interesting
and helpful, that you'd like torecommend to colleagues?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Oh, yes, I actually have it right here Designing for
Behavioral Change.
So a colleague recommended thisto me.
So Bond has an institute that'sreally focused in understanding
consumer behavior and one of mycolleagues recommended this and
it's such a great tool tounderstand the psychology of
consumer behavior, which is justso apparent in today's market,
(20:27):
especially as we just talkedabout customer engagement.
So designing for behavioralchange definitely a record.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Okay.
Is there a profession, otherthan the one that you're
currently in, that you wouldlike to attempt?
Speaker 2 (20:38):
No, it's psychology.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, is there something that you enjoy?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
doing that you don't often get the time to do.
Oh, just explore morerestaurants and see what new
things are in the city.
Don't get to do that enough.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Okay, who inspired you to become?
Speaker 2 (20:58):
the person that you are today.
Oh, several people, definitelynot just one that stands out.
I've had the tremendousprivilege of having a lot of
mentors, both personally andprofessionally.
Too many to name, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
What do you typically think about at the end of the
day?
I'm about tomorrow and what Ineed to tackle.
And the last question how doyou want to be remembered by
friends and family, someonewho's loyal?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
That's awesome.
Loyal loyalty that's good tohave that focus.
Yes, well, michelle, thank youvery much for taking the time to
speak with us today.
It's great having you on theLeaders and Customer Loyalty
series, the Industry Voicespodcast, great getting your
perspective on customer loyalty,and look forward to learning
more from you and Bondthroughout the remainder of 2025
.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
So thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Thank you, Mark.
I'm excited to see what youguys have coming up as well for
a lot of brands to engage with.
Excellent, Great Well.
Thank you very much, everyoneelse, for taking the time to
listen today.
If you haven't already, pleasesubscribe to the Leaders in
Customer Loyalty podcast belowand follow us on YouTube as well
the links are definitelyprovided below and again, join
us every Wednesday when werelease a new edition of our
Industry Voices podcast.
Until then, have a wonderfulday.
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