December 20, 2024 • 13 mins
Are you fatigued by constant having conversations about mental health at work? Join us as we explore the origins and complexity of this topic, and dive into the overwhelm leaders may be feeling. We then examine how to reshape leadership roles in order to move past these conversations and create a more successful and high-functioning team.
Are your conversations about mental health going anywhere?
If you want to understand the real impacts of your team's mental well-being on your success, this is the episode for you!
To have your questions answered on the show, submit your story here: https://allthrive.ca/share-your-story
Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink is live every week at 12:00pm MST. Please join us to get answers to your leadership questions! https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-fink-all-thrive/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Every action you take as a leader has a ripple effect
, starting with your team, goingout to the organization and
even out into people's personallives.
Here we offer you the chance tolearn from real-life stories of
leadership so you can gain adeeper understanding and level
up your own skills Fromcommunication to culture, to
power and equity, to feedback,to resolving conflict and more.
(00:23):
Join us and make sure you'recreating the ripples you want.
Welcome to Leadership Rippleswith Leah Fink.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello and welcome to Leadership Ripples with Leah
Fink.
Today we are going to betalking about mental health and,
specifically, how hard it iswhen you're tired about talking
about mental health in theworkplace all the time.
And instead of a specificquestion or story that was
(00:52):
shared with me, I was speakingwith a leader and talking about
the work I do about elevatingmental health in the workplace.
He didn't want to sharespecifically, but said that I
could use this example.
He said he was so tired ofconversations about mental
health.
It's just brought up way toomuch at work.
It didn't seem to helpemployees and they just ended up
thinking more about how theyweren't doing well.
Now I really wanted to sharethis example as I think it's so
(01:14):
relevant and a really realexperience for a lot of leaders.
I think a lot of people arestruggling with this discussion
and for anyone who'sexperiencing that right now you
are not the only one it's areally natural concern and a
real challenge.
So please be kind to yourselfas you consider this.
So let's look at this.
I'm first going to add thatwe're talking today about
(01:36):
overall mental well-being in theworkplace.
If you have staff that arediagnosed with mental illness,
that's requiring some otherspecific pieces that you are
going to have to deal withwithin your workplace.
And so we're not talking aboutdiagnosis, specific support.
We're talking about thatoverall mental well being.
When I use the term mentalhealth Mental health first of
all is this new topic in theworkplace?
(01:58):
If you went back 20-30 yearsago, you would have barely heard
the words mental health, letalone have been expected to
support it in a leadership role.
Maybe there is discussionaround stress or around being
healthy in general, but wereally didn't talk about mental
health.
So leaders, and especiallyexperienced leaders, have had to
adapt to the shift.
In.
(02:18):
Now you need to talk about itand you might not feel equipped
to address it at all, or you'retired of addressing it again and
again, because it's not only,of course, the rhetoric around
these changes, but in additionto this, we had the
circumstances of COVID-19.
That brought mental health tothe forefront of everyone's
minds in this really big way,because a lot of people would
(02:39):
have previously said maybe theydidn't have any mental health
concerns, or maybe people hadsome, but they were not as
worried about it.
You wouldn't have any mentalhealth concerns, or maybe people
had some, but they were not asworried about it you wouldn't
have seen in the workplace.
And suddenly there was thishuge change.
Suddenly people didn't have theresources that they had, they
couldn't see the people thatsupported them, they couldn't do
the activities they loved, theycouldn't even plan what was
going to happen within the nextyear, because things kept
(03:02):
changing so much and all thosepieces took a huge toll on
people, on their mental health.
And so this, suddenly thistopic arose because not just one
person with, maybe, mentalillness was struggling, but all
these people were suddenlytalking about mental health and
how stressed and concerned theywere.
So, of course, workplaces had torespond.
You wanted to keep youremployees, you needed to get
(03:22):
things done, you didn't want tolose everyone in the middle of
this, and so you need to speakto these challenges.
And for a lot of people, whilethere was the shutdown during
COVID-19, there was anunderstanding that you need to
step up more to support staff.
Everyone was stressed and itwas probably felt like a burden
that you were extra stressedduring that time dealing with it
.
And there was also, I think, abit of an expectation that once
(03:44):
COVID is done, once we're pastthis phase in the world, things
will calm down.
We won't need to talk aboutthis so much anymore.
But after COVID-19, people werestill talking about mental
health.
Maybe their situations wereless extreme, but the
conversations continued.
And that's both because thereare some real long-term impacts
that people are stillexperiencing, still healing from
(04:05):
from that shutdown, everythingthat entailed, but also there's
this piece of once.
There's space in a workplace,in any situation, to bring this
up.
You want to continue to do so.
People kind of like thatability because it's not only
just sharing how you arestruggling, which can be a
powerful thing, but also havingit heard and acknowledged by
(04:26):
leaders, by the workplace.
That's really powerful.
It gives this sense for peoplethat someone cares about them.
Now, of course, on the flipside of this, when those
conversations were stopped ortrivialized or tokenized, people
feel a loss of care, and notthat there isn't care, but they
may no longer experience it whenwe start to shift that
discussion, if we want to shutdown this discussion Again.
(04:49):
This is all hard on leaders.
You're generally not going tobe trained in this.
In many cases your role wasn'tbuilt to accommodate the extra
time or effort you might need toput in now to support the staff
team, and this is one of thereasons it's so important that
leadership roles are wellconsidered, so they include
things about how much percent ofyour time you can use
(05:10):
supporting staff in differentways, because that should be a
big part of any leadership role,and also that hopefully the
messaging from the top of theorganization is sharing that
it's okay to prioritize thiswithin your role, that that top
level of leadership is valuingemployees and their health, and
so different levels ofsupervision are all saying, yes,
this is something I want tosupport and can support, and
(05:32):
this is the resources I have.
I know I have these resourcesto do so.
Whether that's time, whetherthat's money, whatever, it is
that you have that support.
So we're going to shift alittle bit now.
We talked about all thesechallenges and why it's kind of
here, and one of the things Ialso hear is this idea that when
you open a discussion, there'sspace obviously to both have
(05:54):
positive and negative impacts,and the more we focus on
something, the more real it is,and I think that there can be an
effect where, when we take onsomething as this kind of
identity, or we take on thismentality of kind of being
victims when we hear we shouldbe suffering from something, and
a lot of people, I think, seemental health this way.
If we focus on it too much, itwill grow.
(06:15):
Everyone will talk about mentalhealth.
Everyone will have worse mentalhealth by talking about it.
Not to say that that's true ornot true.
Just we have to be aware thatthat's a lot of people's
perspectives and there might bea component of it that the more
we talk, the more it brings.
But what do we do with all ofthis?
The thing you don't want to dois end the discussion.
You don't want to say, hey,we've talked too much about this
(06:36):
, we're trying to address it, sojust stop talking.
That's not going to serve, andthere's way too much rhetoric
about mental health in theworkplace that this isn't going
to serve you or yourorganization.
But let's focus this into threeareas that you can address, and
the first is, of course,there's a personal
accountability for mental health.
Everyone has their ownchallenges and everyone's
(06:57):
responsible for what they'redoing in their lives to help
mitigate those challenges andstill take care of themselves.
We don't want to lose that areawhen we're thinking about
people in the workplace, becausewe want to foster this
empowerment, this self-efficacythat people can support their
mental health, that they can getpast challenges.
So having discussions withindividuals or with your team
(07:20):
that really helps themunderstand some of these
components, how they could becaring for themselves and
sharing the resources thingslike benefits that your
organization might offer thatwill help them on that personal
level.
Flip side of this unfortunatelyour society tends to focus a lot
on individualism and it's mucheasier, of course, also for
organizations to place theentire onus of mental health
(07:42):
onto the employee.
So, for example, I'll hear fromstaff how the company noticed
everyone in the organization wasfeeling stressed.
So they had someone come in tospeak about anxiety and they
talked about what it was andthey gave some tips for how you
can not be anxious, andespecially not be anxious at
work.
But the workplace itself wascontributing to all those staff
being stressed.
They were stressed because ofthe circumstance, and so now the
(08:03):
Onesto is put entirely on themto not be stressed, to not be
anxious, and so we want to makesure that we're balancing this.
We want to have thoseconversations about what you're
responsible for for yourself,for mental health, but also look
at this bigger picture.
Moving on to the second area,something that will also help
with this is having reallyclearly defined structures and
(08:25):
boundaries in your workplace.
Having really clearly definedstructures and boundaries in
your workplace.
It creates a lot of stress forleaders and teams when there's
uncertainty.
Black and white is really nice,and this is one space where you
can be a little bit more blackand white in order to have more
flexibility, because sometimesyou do have people who are
really struggling and that canbe hard both on the leader and
on the team and there can feel asense of inequality or that
(08:47):
things aren't fair or thatpeople are working much harder
to accommodate this, and theremight be some simple things that
you can shift that wouldactually help with that.
Ironically, the clearer you areon your boundaries, the more
space it gives you to supportsomeone.
So, for example, a commonboundary in the workplace would
be that someone needs to work Xnumber of hours per week.
Now you can think of what partof that boundary really matters
(09:09):
to you and where do you haveflexibility in addressing it.
Maybe you can be open to peopledeciding what hours during the
week they work.
Is it weeknights, is itweekdays, is it part on weekends
?
Or if you have to have aspecific required set of hours.
Maybe they can have more sayover their schedule to determine
which kind of tasks they do atwhat time.
Maybe it's even that you lookat task-based instead of
(09:33):
hour-based work.
There's a lot of ways that whenyou're really clear on what's
important and what you requirefrom staff, or what you really
expect, then you have all thisdifferent space to play in it
and to really have thesediscussions about how people can
be best served.
I know certainly of experiencesof staff who were very stressed
, having a really hard time inthe workplace.
(09:54):
They had some of theseconversations and suddenly they
were able to step into roleswhere they were not previously
having success.
And in this discussion, as westart talking about all these
options and as we start lookingnow at some of the structures of
the workplace, that reallybrings up this third area, and I
believe this is where you havethe most influence as a leader.
It is so critical to do.
(10:16):
Let's look at the workplace andwhat kind of environment you're
creating for your staff,because when people talk about
mental health in the workplace,what they're really saying is
that there is stress in thisenvironment that they are having
a hard time dealing with, andthis is 100% to your benefit to
change this.
If you are tired of talkingabout mental health, the way
(10:37):
that you can reframe thisdiscussion is how can I make my
workplace more effective andsuccessful?
That is, honestly, basicallythe same thing people are asking
when they're talking aboutmental health how so?
So the Mental Health Commissionof Canada did a lot of research
on what makes a psychologicallyhealth and safe workplace, aka a
mentally healthy workplace.
(10:58):
Do you know what they found?
They found that all of thefactors that build success for
the organization were alsocritical for employee mental
health.
So how leaders communicated,what the culture was like, how
engaged people are, the roles,responsibilities and
expectations, what theorganizational boundaries were
All of those kinds of thingscame into play.
(11:19):
Those are things that createmore success for the
organization.
They actually make your jobeasier when they're in a good
state that you spend less timethinking about all of these and,
to quote their report,workplaces with a positive
approach to psychological healthand safety are better able to
recruit and retain talent, haveimproved employee engagement,
enhance productivity and aremore creative and innovative and
(11:40):
have higher profit levels.
Other positive impacts include areduction of several key
workplace issues, including therisk of conflict, grievances,
turnover, disability, injuryrates, absenteeism and
performance or morale problems.
I'm guessing those are probablyall things you want in your
organization.
So when your employees bring upmental health, hopefully this
(12:03):
is a bit of a different way thatyou can look at it.
You can look at all thebenefits that you could have if
you can address some of thesebigger workplace issues.
And if you're curious about howyour organization can do that
work to become more successful,please get in touch with me.
I do workplace mental healthassessments that will look at
all these factors and help youlearn where you can be focusing
(12:24):
your energy so you can be makingthe changes you need to, and
you'll find that once thatenergy is focused, those changes
are made.
Suddenly the talk about mentalhealth isn't quite the same.
You don't need to be going intoall these pieces because you've
really fixed some of thoseunderlying issues.
As a reminder to all ourlisteners, if you have a great
story or question that you'dlike to share with the show, we
(12:45):
would love to have it.
You can find the link for thatin the description below and, as
a thank you for that, I followup with a session to make sure
all your questions are answeredand just to say thank you for
contributing and I want to thankyou so much for listening and
learning with me.
I understand that thesediscussions can be hard and feel
(13:05):
overwhelming sometimes with howmuch they come up, so thank you
for still taking the time toconsider them and, as we close,
remember to ask yourself whatkind of ripples am I going to
create this week?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
We hope you enjoyed the episode.
Make sure to subscribe, commentand connect with Leah at
meetleahca.
Every action you take as a leader has a ripple effect
, starting with your team, goingout to the organization and
even out into people's personallives.
Here we offer you the chance tolearn from real-life stories of
leadership so you can gain adeeper understanding and level
up your own skills Fromcommunication to culture, to
power and equity, to feedback,to resolving conflict and more.
(00:23):
Join us and make sure you'recreating the ripples you want.
Welcome to Leadership Rippleswith Leah Fink.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello and welcome to Leadership Ripples with Leah
Fink.
Today we are going to betalking about mental health and,
specifically, how hard it iswhen you're tired about talking
about mental health in theworkplace all the time.
And instead of a specificquestion or story that was
(00:52):
shared with me, I was speakingwith a leader and talking about
the work I do about elevatingmental health in the workplace.
He didn't want to sharespecifically, but said that I
could use this example.
He said he was so tired ofconversations about mental
health.
It's just brought up way toomuch at work.
It didn't seem to helpemployees and they just ended up
thinking more about how theyweren't doing well.
Now I really wanted to sharethis example as I think it's so
(01:14):
relevant and a really realexperience for a lot of leaders.
I think a lot of people arestruggling with this discussion
and for anyone who'sexperiencing that right now you
are not the only one it's areally natural concern and a
real challenge.
So please be kind to yourselfas you consider this.
So let's look at this.
I'm first going to add thatwe're talking today about
(01:36):
overall mental well-being in theworkplace.
If you have staff that arediagnosed with mental illness,
that's requiring some otherspecific pieces that you are
going to have to deal withwithin your workplace.
And so we're not talking aboutdiagnosis, specific support.
We're talking about thatoverall mental well being.
When I use the term mentalhealth Mental health first of
all is this new topic in theworkplace?
(01:58):
If you went back 20-30 yearsago, you would have barely heard
the words mental health, letalone have been expected to
support it in a leadership role.
Maybe there is discussionaround stress or around being
healthy in general, but wereally didn't talk about mental
health.
So leaders, and especiallyexperienced leaders, have had to
adapt to the shift.
In.
(02:18):
Now you need to talk about itand you might not feel equipped
to address it at all, or you'retired of addressing it again and
again, because it's not only,of course, the rhetoric around
these changes, but in additionto this, we had the
circumstances of COVID-19.
That brought mental health tothe forefront of everyone's
minds in this really big way,because a lot of people would
(02:39):
have previously said maybe theydidn't have any mental health
concerns, or maybe people hadsome, but they were not as
worried about it.
You wouldn't have any mentalhealth concerns, or maybe people
had some, but they were not asworried about it you wouldn't
have seen in the workplace.
And suddenly there was thishuge change.
Suddenly people didn't have theresources that they had, they
couldn't see the people thatsupported them, they couldn't do
the activities they loved, theycouldn't even plan what was
going to happen within the nextyear, because things kept
(03:02):
changing so much and all thosepieces took a huge toll on
people, on their mental health.
And so this, suddenly thistopic arose because not just one
person with, maybe, mentalillness was struggling, but all
these people were suddenlytalking about mental health and
how stressed and concerned theywere.
So, of course, workplaces had torespond.
You wanted to keep youremployees, you needed to get
(03:22):
things done, you didn't want tolose everyone in the middle of
this, and so you need to speakto these challenges.
And for a lot of people, whilethere was the shutdown during
COVID-19, there was anunderstanding that you need to
step up more to support staff.
Everyone was stressed and itwas probably felt like a burden
that you were extra stressedduring that time dealing with it
.
And there was also, I think, abit of an expectation that once
(03:44):
COVID is done, once we're pastthis phase in the world, things
will calm down.
We won't need to talk aboutthis so much anymore.
But after COVID-19, people werestill talking about mental
health.
Maybe their situations wereless extreme, but the
conversations continued.
And that's both because thereare some real long-term impacts
that people are stillexperiencing, still healing from
(04:05):
from that shutdown, everythingthat entailed, but also there's
this piece of once.
There's space in a workplace,in any situation, to bring this
up.
You want to continue to do so.
People kind of like thatability because it's not only
just sharing how you arestruggling, which can be a
powerful thing, but also havingit heard and acknowledged by
(04:26):
leaders, by the workplace.
That's really powerful.
It gives this sense for peoplethat someone cares about them.
Now, of course, on the flipside of this, when those
conversations were stopped ortrivialized or tokenized, people
feel a loss of care, and notthat there isn't care, but they
may no longer experience it whenwe start to shift that
discussion, if we want to shutdown this discussion Again.
(04:49):
This is all hard on leaders.
You're generally not going tobe trained in this.
In many cases your role wasn'tbuilt to accommodate the extra
time or effort you might need toput in now to support the staff
team, and this is one of thereasons it's so important that
leadership roles are wellconsidered, so they include
things about how much percent ofyour time you can use
(05:10):
supporting staff in differentways, because that should be a
big part of any leadership role,and also that hopefully the
messaging from the top of theorganization is sharing that
it's okay to prioritize thiswithin your role, that that top
level of leadership is valuingemployees and their health, and
so different levels ofsupervision are all saying, yes,
this is something I want tosupport and can support, and
(05:32):
this is the resources I have.
I know I have these resourcesto do so.
Whether that's time, whetherthat's money, whatever, it is
that you have that support.
So we're going to shift alittle bit now.
We talked about all thesechallenges and why it's kind of
here, and one of the things Ialso hear is this idea that when
you open a discussion, there'sspace obviously to both have
(05:54):
positive and negative impacts,and the more we focus on
something, the more real it is,and I think that there can be an
effect where, when we take onsomething as this kind of
identity, or we take on thismentality of kind of being
victims when we hear we shouldbe suffering from something, and
a lot of people, I think, seemental health this way.
If we focus on it too much, itwill grow.
(06:15):
Everyone will talk about mentalhealth.
Everyone will have worse mentalhealth by talking about it.
Not to say that that's true ornot true.
Just we have to be aware thatthat's a lot of people's
perspectives and there might bea component of it that the more
we talk, the more it brings.
But what do we do with all ofthis?
The thing you don't want to dois end the discussion.
You don't want to say, hey,we've talked too much about this
(06:36):
, we're trying to address it, sojust stop talking.
That's not going to serve, andthere's way too much rhetoric
about mental health in theworkplace that this isn't going
to serve you or yourorganization.
But let's focus this into threeareas that you can address, and
the first is, of course,there's a personal
accountability for mental health.
Everyone has their ownchallenges and everyone's
(06:57):
responsible for what they'redoing in their lives to help
mitigate those challenges andstill take care of themselves.
We don't want to lose that areawhen we're thinking about
people in the workplace, becausewe want to foster this
empowerment, this self-efficacythat people can support their
mental health, that they can getpast challenges.
So having discussions withindividuals or with your team
(07:20):
that really helps themunderstand some of these
components, how they could becaring for themselves and
sharing the resources thingslike benefits that your
organization might offer thatwill help them on that personal
level.
Flip side of this unfortunatelyour society tends to focus a lot
on individualism and it's mucheasier, of course, also for
organizations to place theentire onus of mental health
(07:42):
onto the employee.
So, for example, I'll hear fromstaff how the company noticed
everyone in the organization wasfeeling stressed.
So they had someone come in tospeak about anxiety and they
talked about what it was andthey gave some tips for how you
can not be anxious, andespecially not be anxious at
work.
But the workplace itself wascontributing to all those staff
being stressed.
They were stressed because ofthe circumstance, and so now the
(08:03):
Onesto is put entirely on themto not be stressed, to not be
anxious, and so we want to makesure that we're balancing this.
We want to have thoseconversations about what you're
responsible for for yourself,for mental health, but also look
at this bigger picture.
Moving on to the second area,something that will also help
with this is having reallyclearly defined structures and
(08:25):
boundaries in your workplace.
Having really clearly definedstructures and boundaries in
your workplace.
It creates a lot of stress forleaders and teams when there's
uncertainty.
Black and white is really nice,and this is one space where you
can be a little bit more blackand white in order to have more
flexibility, because sometimesyou do have people who are
really struggling and that canbe hard both on the leader and
on the team and there can feel asense of inequality or that
(08:47):
things aren't fair or thatpeople are working much harder
to accommodate this, and theremight be some simple things that
you can shift that wouldactually help with that.
Ironically, the clearer you areon your boundaries, the more
space it gives you to supportsomeone.
So, for example, a commonboundary in the workplace would
be that someone needs to work Xnumber of hours per week.
Now you can think of what partof that boundary really matters
(09:09):
to you and where do you haveflexibility in addressing it.
Maybe you can be open to peopledeciding what hours during the
week they work.
Is it weeknights, is itweekdays, is it part on weekends
?
Or if you have to have aspecific required set of hours.
Maybe they can have more sayover their schedule to determine
which kind of tasks they do atwhat time.
Maybe it's even that you lookat task-based instead of
(09:33):
hour-based work.
There's a lot of ways that whenyou're really clear on what's
important and what you requirefrom staff, or what you really
expect, then you have all thisdifferent space to play in it
and to really have thesediscussions about how people can
be best served.
I know certainly of experiencesof staff who were very stressed
, having a really hard time inthe workplace.
(09:54):
They had some of theseconversations and suddenly they
were able to step into roleswhere they were not previously
having success.
And in this discussion, as westart talking about all these
options and as we start lookingnow at some of the structures of
the workplace, that reallybrings up this third area, and I
believe this is where you havethe most influence as a leader.
It is so critical to do.
(10:16):
Let's look at the workplace andwhat kind of environment you're
creating for your staff,because when people talk about
mental health in the workplace,what they're really saying is
that there is stress in thisenvironment that they are having
a hard time dealing with, andthis is 100% to your benefit to
change this.
If you are tired of talkingabout mental health, the way
(10:37):
that you can reframe thisdiscussion is how can I make my
workplace more effective andsuccessful?
That is, honestly, basicallythe same thing people are asking
when they're talking aboutmental health how so?
So the Mental Health Commissionof Canada did a lot of research
on what makes a psychologicallyhealth and safe workplace, aka a
mentally healthy workplace.
(10:58):
Do you know what they found?
They found that all of thefactors that build success for
the organization were alsocritical for employee mental
health.
So how leaders communicated,what the culture was like, how
engaged people are, the roles,responsibilities and
expectations, what theorganizational boundaries were
All of those kinds of thingscame into play.
(11:19):
Those are things that createmore success for the
organization.
They actually make your jobeasier when they're in a good
state that you spend less timethinking about all of these and,
to quote their report,workplaces with a positive
approach to psychological healthand safety are better able to
recruit and retain talent, haveimproved employee engagement,
enhance productivity and aremore creative and innovative and
(11:40):
have higher profit levels.
Other positive impacts include areduction of several key
workplace issues, including therisk of conflict, grievances,
turnover, disability, injuryrates, absenteeism and
performance or morale problems.
I'm guessing those are probablyall things you want in your
organization.
So when your employees bring upmental health, hopefully this
(12:03):
is a bit of a different way thatyou can look at it.
You can look at all thebenefits that you could have if
you can address some of thesebigger workplace issues.
And if you're curious about howyour organization can do that
work to become more successful,please get in touch with me.
I do workplace mental healthassessments that will look at
all these factors and help youlearn where you can be focusing
(12:24):
your energy so you can be makingthe changes you need to, and
you'll find that once thatenergy is focused, those changes
are made.
Suddenly the talk about mentalhealth isn't quite the same.
You don't need to be going intoall these pieces because you've
really fixed some of thoseunderlying issues.
As a reminder to all ourlisteners, if you have a great
story or question that you'dlike to share with the show, we
(12:45):
would love to have it.
You can find the link for thatin the description below and, as
a thank you for that, I followup with a session to make sure
all your questions are answeredand just to say thank you for
contributing and I want to thankyou so much for listening and
learning with me.
I understand that thesediscussions can be hard and feel
(13:05):
overwhelming sometimes with howmuch they come up, so thank you
for still taking the time toconsider them and, as we close,
remember to ask yourself whatkind of ripples am I going to
create this week?
Speaker 1 (13:18):
We hope you enjoyed the episode.
Make sure to subscribe, commentand connect with Leah at
meetleahca.
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