January 24, 2025 • 13 mins
What if the way leaders perceive salaries could transform employee satisfaction and retention? In this episode, we challenge the deeply rooted fears and unconscious beliefs that salaries are a financial burden. We reveal how reimagining wages as strategic investments can create a sense of investment and foster a flourishing work environment.
Are your financial mindsets leading to your employees feel genuinely valued and motivated, or undervalued and demotivated.
If you want to ensure that your budget is fuelling growth and prosperity, you should join us for a listen!
Part 2 of this episode will be posted February 7.
To have your questions answered on the show, submit your story here: https://allthrive.ca/share-your-story
Leadership Ripples with Leah Fink is live every week at 12:00pm MST. Please join us to get answers to your leadership questions! https://www.linkedin.com/in/leah-fink-all-thrive/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Every action you take as a leader has a ripple effect
, starting with your team, goingout to the organization and
even out into people's personallives.
Here we offer you the chance tolearn from real-life stories of
leadership so you can gain adeeper understanding and level
up your own skills Fromcommunication to culture, to
power and equity, to feedback,to resolving conflict and more.
(00:23):
Join us and make sure you'recreating the ripples you want.
Welcome to Leadership Rippleswith Leah Fink.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello and welcome to Leadership Ripples with Leah
Fink.
I'm very excited because todayis the first episode of our
second season.
Wow, I can't believe it'salready been 50 episodes.
This is episode 51, and we'restarting off the year with
something that I think is really, really fun.
Over the holidays, I had thisgreat opportunity to catch up
(00:53):
with a lot of people that I know, to meet a bunch of new people,
and through all of thoseconversations, I got a bit
inspired for this question thatI really want to ask, and it was
why should your employees wantto work for you?
The perspective of employeesand all the people I heard from
is often very different from theleaders that I get to talk to,
(01:13):
and something that came up againand again is different items,
different pieces that peoplewere dissatisfied with, and a
lot of people who werequestioning if they still wanted
to work for these companiesthat they worked for.
And I think about that withthis concept that leaders care,
that we all have greatintentions and we're trying to
support our employees, and so Ireally want to dive into a
(01:35):
couple of things today that doimpact why your employees work
for you, that, if they want towork for you, if they're already
thinking about leaving and ofcourse, this is such a big topic
.
This is going to be a two-partepisode.
Today, we're going to talk moreon the financial side of things
, and in the second part of thisepisode, next week, we're going
to talk more on the culturalside of things.
This is something we need totalk about pretty frankly in
(01:58):
this context.
This is obviously a huge partof employee experience, and
we're not going to talk aboutthe basics of employees work for
you because they need money tosurvive, but we're going to talk
more about, as a leader, howyou perceive your employees and
the expense of having employees,and how that might be having
bigger impacts than you thoughton your success.
Of course, leaders can havelots of different mindsets
(02:21):
around finances when it comes toemployees.
You can even pause for a second.
Think about what is yourperspective on employees and the
finance and the impact thatthey have on your finances.
There can be a lot of stress,first of all, about being able
to afford employees.
That is pretty common.
After all, you're not onlytaking responsibility for
ensuring that you can pay thisperson consistently week to week
(02:42):
or monthly, whatever.
However you pay them, that youcan pay this person consistently
, week to week or monthly,whatever.
However you pay them, and thathas to be regardless of how your
company does, what the draw isfor and what your profit is.
And of course, that's a bigcommitment.
And I especially see this withowners of small businesses as
they first start hiringemployees and they're thinking,
wow, this is huge.
I'm now going to have to makesure that not only am I
(03:03):
profitable, but that I can paythis person consistently, and
that is very understandable.
Of course it's a big expense.
You only want to hire someoneif you know for sure that you
can take care of them and stillhave your company be financially
successful.
The challenge is, this mindsetoften persists, this sense of
scarcity.
It lingers and impacts howyou're going to keep making
(03:26):
decisions about your salary andteam, even when you are more
stable.
Often this comes from a placeof worry and fear, and this fear
that salaries, which are alarge expense, are one of the
most dangerous parts of yourexpense, to this point where
employees can actually feel likethey're this burden to you that
you have to take on.
It can feel heavy and demandingand if you're taking on a
(03:50):
burden, you might even be upsetat employees if they ever have
questions or raise concernsabout compensation.
How dare they not understandhow heavy this feels to me, how
much I worry about this, howmuch I risk on having this
employee?
They should be grateful thatI'm paying them a salary, and
this might not be a bigconscious thought, but
subconsciously you might almostwant some empathy from your
(04:13):
employees about how that stressis impacting you.
You want them to understandthat you are doing your best
with pay, even if it's not to alarge extent.
If you are spending a lot oftime worrying about how
expensive your employees are,I'd argue there is some
component of your mindset thatis based in fear around having
employees and you really want totake some time to look at that.
(04:34):
So we've talked about this onthe show last season.
People have a negativity bias.
It's very natural we're morelikely to see the danger in a
situation than we are to see thepossibilities.
We think about what we'rerisking rather than what might
be at stake that we might beable to gain.
And how do you think it changeshow you treat employees on some
level if you see them as a riskor if you see them as an asset
(04:58):
to your company.
That's going to make a bigdifference on how you see them
and then, therefore, how youtreat them.
We do have a lot of leaders whowill say employees are our
biggest asset, or companies thatsay this, but there's a big
difference in the actualintention behind that and how
much they mean it, because whenyou approach people with the
concept that they are actuallyan asset, you treat them
(05:19):
differently.
Suddenly, the money you'respending on salary is no longer
a risky drain to your company,but an investment that is
intentionally there to help yougrow, to help you prosper.
And what do we do with theinvestments?
You get excited to make themand you take care of them.
You realize that they areimportant to the success of the
business and you give them thistangible proof that you want
(05:41):
them there, that you care aboutthem.
When you think about it, we'relooking at this from the
employee perspective, and Ithink a lot of leaders can
probably think back to when theywere in that position and had
something like this experience.
Did you know when your companyor your team saw you as more of
an expense or an asset to investin?
Was your salary below industrystandard?
(06:02):
Did it change to reflectinflation.
Did your leader ever make thesekind of complaints about how
hard it is to get funding foryourself or your team?
All of these comments give thissense of as an employee, I'm a
burden and I should just bethankful for what I'm getting,
and unfortunately, the impact ofthis often falls on middle
(06:23):
management, who may not have thepower or ability to make the
financial decisions they'd likefor their team, but they have to
take the brunt of that impactthat this is having on staff.
So I especially want to say, ifyou are listening to this and
you are a person who has theability to change this culture,
to be aware of this, I reallyhope that this is a great
(06:43):
episode for you and that you getto reflect on some things with
it.
The irony of all this, of course, and why we're talking about it
, is that the more financialdecisions you make from fear,
the more money you end up losing, and you may not even realize
it.
It's the expectation of a lotof employees now that if they
want to progress financially,it's better to go to another
(07:04):
company with another job that'llactually help raise their
salary more than staying in thesame place, and there's never a
basis with most companies toraise employee salary, as there
is the need to pay new employeesthe proper salary when they
come in and unfortunately,having an employee leave is much
more expensive than most peoplethink.
(07:24):
By the time you add up losingthe output of an employee while
you're down the spot recruiting,training, hr paperwork, all the
other expenses it usually costsabout half of a position's
annual salary to have to rehirefor that position, and that's
not even looking into theknowledge that you lose and the
experience and how that might beaffecting things like
(07:46):
productivity or morale for yourteam.
But we don't think about thosethings as actively when we're
thinking about a place of fear.
We're thinking of protect whatwe have and keep within our
resources.
We think about the short termand assume that our employees
will just want to stay, or theymight be scared of leaving, or
it's too much effort to leave,so they'll probably stay here
(08:07):
and that may happen.
It certainly does.
But if we want to be trulysuccessful long-term, then
focusing on this employeeretention is a huge way to
increase your profits and toreduce your loss.
That's just talking aboutregular employee compensation,
and I want to talk about anotherfinancial concept, which is
that we often link finances orsome sort of benefit with
(08:29):
performance, and that could beraises, that could be bonuses
and, of course, it makes sense.
It's important that you areacknowledging the employees that
perform well and you want toreward that hard work and
dedication.
And there is this underlyingmindset in our society that hard
work should be rewarded, thatif you put in more effort you
will get a greater reward.
(08:50):
Now, next week we're going totalk about some of those
cultural components and thenon-financial pieces that we can
link with this to make sureit's not just financial reward
that is supporting our staffteam.
But often what happens when wefocus on this fiscal side, which
is what we're doing today iscompanies can end up actually
putting themselves in a worseposition when it comes to the
(09:11):
employee perspective.
And the biggest challenge thatI see with this is consistency.
Many companies have reallywell-intentioned initiatives
around this.
So maybe on your annualperformance review, there's an
opportunity to get a largerbonus if you exceeded
expectations for your role forthe year, or maybe there's a
bonus for reaching certainmilestones, or maybe your raise
(09:31):
is determined by last year'sperformance.
Those are all really validthings that are well-intentioned
to try to show employees.
Thank you for putting in thehard work and in years that
things are going really well andthat initiative is prioritized,
it works out really well.
High performing employees endup getting this financial
compensation.
(09:51):
They feel really good about it,they feel well rewarded and
they want to keep investing.
But what happens if somethingchanges?
Maybe in a subsequent yearfinances are a little bit
tighter or the culture aroundthis changes, it's no longer
prioritized, or you get a keyfigure in these roles who
changes.
What happens now?
You've built this expectationfor employees and this whole
(10:13):
framework around financialcompensation that is linked to
telling the employee how wellthey did, and maybe you no
longer want to invest thosefinances, so maybe you decide
that there's not the budget forbonuses this year.
So an employee that goes aboveand beyond according to your
rubric and is really dedicatedis told that their work was
acceptable, because if youcategorize them as exceeding
(10:36):
expectations, you'd have tofinancially compensate them, and
you're not doing that this year.
Do you know what happens to avery dedicated employee who goes
above and beyond and is toldthat they met expectations?
I'll tell you that it feelslike a slap in the face that
they feel that all the care andeffort they put in was not
appreciated in any way, andyou're either going to lose the
desire to put in that extraeffort or they may even already
(10:59):
have a foot out the doorthinking well, I'm going to go
find someone who will appreciatehow hard I work and how much I
care about this.
So if you are going to offerany sort of financial reward,
make sure that both you are veryclear on expectations and that
you can guarantee that thisthing will be consistent year to
year, so you're notaccidentally telling your
employees that they are not asvaluable as they think or
(11:21):
they're not doing as well asthey think.
Make sure that that piece canbe consistent.
This all being said, I ofcourse recognize that whatever
industry you're in, there'sgoing to be variation on how you
are able to compensateemployees.
I used to work in non-profit,which is well known for having a
harder time with having goodbudget for employee salaries,
(11:42):
and, at the very least, I hopethat you are able to consider
your employee experiencerelevant to the field, because
they'll know the expectations ofyour industry roughly and they
will be comparing you to how youprioritize them as assets or
not, because at a deep level,this isn't about money at all.
This is around your mindsetabout employees, the same
(12:02):
question you asked earlier doyou see them as a burden or do
you see them as a strength andan asset to your company?
How are you going to show that?
Why would they want to work foryou?
As I mentioned, this is a bigquestion we're going to continue
to answer this next week, goingdeeper into some of those
cultural pieces about how theycan feel special and cared for
(12:23):
and rewarded, even outside ofthis financial piece.
So make sure you tune into thatand, as a reminder, if you have
a question or an idea that youwant to share with the show,
please share that with us.
We would love to have it.
You can find the link for thatin the description below and we
hope to hear from you.
I want to thank you so much forlearning with me today, for
(12:45):
considering this.
Some of these thoughts can bepretty insidious and deep in our
mindset.
The fear that we have aroundthese things can have a pretty
tight hold.
So thank you for taking thetime and the consideration to
start exploring those littlebits of fear with me and, as we
close, remember to ask yourselfwhat kind of ripples am I going
(13:05):
to create this week?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We hope you enjoyed the episode.
Make sure to subscribe, commentand connect with Leah at
meetleahca.
Every action you take as a leader has a ripple effect
, starting with your team, goingout to the organization and
even out into people's personallives.
Here we offer you the chance tolearn from real-life stories of
leadership so you can gain adeeper understanding and level
up your own skills Fromcommunication to culture, to
power and equity, to feedback,to resolving conflict and more.
(00:23):
Join us and make sure you'recreating the ripples you want.
Welcome to Leadership Rippleswith Leah Fink.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hello and welcome to Leadership Ripples with Leah
Fink.
I'm very excited because todayis the first episode of our
second season.
Wow, I can't believe it'salready been 50 episodes.
This is episode 51, and we'restarting off the year with
something that I think is really, really fun.
Over the holidays, I had thisgreat opportunity to catch up
(00:53):
with a lot of people that I know, to meet a bunch of new people,
and through all of thoseconversations, I got a bit
inspired for this question thatI really want to ask, and it was
why should your employees wantto work for you?
The perspective of employeesand all the people I heard from
is often very different from theleaders that I get to talk to,
(01:13):
and something that came up againand again is different items,
different pieces that peoplewere dissatisfied with, and a
lot of people who werequestioning if they still wanted
to work for these companiesthat they worked for.
And I think about that withthis concept that leaders care,
that we all have greatintentions and we're trying to
support our employees, and so Ireally want to dive into a
(01:35):
couple of things today that doimpact why your employees work
for you, that, if they want towork for you, if they're already
thinking about leaving and ofcourse, this is such a big topic
.
This is going to be a two-partepisode.
Today, we're going to talk moreon the financial side of things
, and in the second part of thisepisode, next week, we're going
to talk more on the culturalside of things.
This is something we need totalk about pretty frankly in
(01:58):
this context.
This is obviously a huge partof employee experience, and
we're not going to talk aboutthe basics of employees work for
you because they need money tosurvive, but we're going to talk
more about, as a leader, howyou perceive your employees and
the expense of having employees,and how that might be having
bigger impacts than you thoughton your success.
Of course, leaders can havelots of different mindsets
(02:21):
around finances when it comes toemployees.
You can even pause for a second.
Think about what is yourperspective on employees and the
finance and the impact thatthey have on your finances.
There can be a lot of stress,first of all, about being able
to afford employees.
That is pretty common.
After all, you're not onlytaking responsibility for
ensuring that you can pay thisperson consistently week to week
(02:42):
or monthly, whatever.
However you pay them, that youcan pay this person consistently
, week to week or monthly,whatever.
However you pay them, and thathas to be regardless of how your
company does, what the draw isfor and what your profit is.
And of course, that's a bigcommitment.
And I especially see this withowners of small businesses as
they first start hiringemployees and they're thinking,
wow, this is huge.
I'm now going to have to makesure that not only am I
(03:03):
profitable, but that I can paythis person consistently, and
that is very understandable.
Of course it's a big expense.
You only want to hire someoneif you know for sure that you
can take care of them and stillhave your company be financially
successful.
The challenge is, this mindsetoften persists, this sense of
scarcity.
It lingers and impacts howyou're going to keep making
(03:26):
decisions about your salary andteam, even when you are more
stable.
Often this comes from a placeof worry and fear, and this fear
that salaries, which are alarge expense, are one of the
most dangerous parts of yourexpense, to this point where
employees can actually feel likethey're this burden to you that
you have to take on.
It can feel heavy and demandingand if you're taking on a
(03:50):
burden, you might even be upsetat employees if they ever have
questions or raise concernsabout compensation.
How dare they not understandhow heavy this feels to me, how
much I worry about this, howmuch I risk on having this
employee?
They should be grateful thatI'm paying them a salary, and
this might not be a bigconscious thought, but
subconsciously you might almostwant some empathy from your
(04:13):
employees about how that stressis impacting you.
You want them to understandthat you are doing your best
with pay, even if it's not to alarge extent.
If you are spending a lot oftime worrying about how
expensive your employees are,I'd argue there is some
component of your mindset thatis based in fear around having
employees and you really want totake some time to look at that.
(04:34):
So we've talked about this onthe show last season.
People have a negativity bias.
It's very natural we're morelikely to see the danger in a
situation than we are to see thepossibilities.
We think about what we'rerisking rather than what might
be at stake that we might beable to gain.
And how do you think it changeshow you treat employees on some
level if you see them as a riskor if you see them as an asset
(04:58):
to your company.
That's going to make a bigdifference on how you see them
and then, therefore, how youtreat them.
We do have a lot of leaders whowill say employees are our
biggest asset, or companies thatsay this, but there's a big
difference in the actualintention behind that and how
much they mean it, because whenyou approach people with the
concept that they are actuallyan asset, you treat them
(05:19):
differently.
Suddenly, the money you'respending on salary is no longer
a risky drain to your company,but an investment that is
intentionally there to help yougrow, to help you prosper.
And what do we do with theinvestments?
You get excited to make themand you take care of them.
You realize that they areimportant to the success of the
business and you give them thistangible proof that you want
(05:41):
them there, that you care aboutthem.
When you think about it, we'relooking at this from the
employee perspective, and Ithink a lot of leaders can
probably think back to when theywere in that position and had
something like this experience.
Did you know when your companyor your team saw you as more of
an expense or an asset to investin?
Was your salary below industrystandard?
(06:02):
Did it change to reflectinflation.
Did your leader ever make thesekind of complaints about how
hard it is to get funding foryourself or your team?
All of these comments give thissense of as an employee, I'm a
burden and I should just bethankful for what I'm getting,
and unfortunately, the impact ofthis often falls on middle
(06:23):
management, who may not have thepower or ability to make the
financial decisions they'd likefor their team, but they have to
take the brunt of that impactthat this is having on staff.
So I especially want to say, ifyou are listening to this and
you are a person who has theability to change this culture,
to be aware of this, I reallyhope that this is a great
(06:43):
episode for you and that you getto reflect on some things with
it.
The irony of all this, of course, and why we're talking about it
, is that the more financialdecisions you make from fear,
the more money you end up losing, and you may not even realize
it.
It's the expectation of a lotof employees now that if they
want to progress financially,it's better to go to another
(07:04):
company with another job that'llactually help raise their
salary more than staying in thesame place, and there's never a
basis with most companies toraise employee salary, as there
is the need to pay new employeesthe proper salary when they
come in and unfortunately,having an employee leave is much
more expensive than most peoplethink.
(07:24):
By the time you add up losingthe output of an employee while
you're down the spot recruiting,training, hr paperwork, all the
other expenses it usually costsabout half of a position's
annual salary to have to rehirefor that position, and that's
not even looking into theknowledge that you lose and the
experience and how that might beaffecting things like
(07:46):
productivity or morale for yourteam.
But we don't think about thosethings as actively when we're
thinking about a place of fear.
We're thinking of protect whatwe have and keep within our
resources.
We think about the short termand assume that our employees
will just want to stay, or theymight be scared of leaving, or
it's too much effort to leave,so they'll probably stay here
(08:07):
and that may happen.
It certainly does.
But if we want to be trulysuccessful long-term, then
focusing on this employeeretention is a huge way to
increase your profits and toreduce your loss.
That's just talking aboutregular employee compensation,
and I want to talk about anotherfinancial concept, which is
that we often link finances orsome sort of benefit with
(08:29):
performance, and that could beraises, that could be bonuses
and, of course, it makes sense.
It's important that you areacknowledging the employees that
perform well and you want toreward that hard work and
dedication.
And there is this underlyingmindset in our society that hard
work should be rewarded, thatif you put in more effort you
will get a greater reward.
(08:50):
Now, next week we're going totalk about some of those
cultural components and thenon-financial pieces that we can
link with this to make sureit's not just financial reward
that is supporting our staffteam.
But often what happens when wefocus on this fiscal side, which
is what we're doing today iscompanies can end up actually
putting themselves in a worseposition when it comes to the
(09:11):
employee perspective.
And the biggest challenge thatI see with this is consistency.
Many companies have reallywell-intentioned initiatives
around this.
So maybe on your annualperformance review, there's an
opportunity to get a largerbonus if you exceeded
expectations for your role forthe year, or maybe there's a
bonus for reaching certainmilestones, or maybe your raise
(09:31):
is determined by last year'sperformance.
Those are all really validthings that are well-intentioned
to try to show employees.
Thank you for putting in thehard work and in years that
things are going really well andthat initiative is prioritized,
it works out really well.
High performing employees endup getting this financial
compensation.
(09:51):
They feel really good about it,they feel well rewarded and
they want to keep investing.
But what happens if somethingchanges?
Maybe in a subsequent yearfinances are a little bit
tighter or the culture aroundthis changes, it's no longer
prioritized, or you get a keyfigure in these roles who
changes.
What happens now?
You've built this expectationfor employees and this whole
(10:13):
framework around financialcompensation that is linked to
telling the employee how wellthey did, and maybe you no
longer want to invest thosefinances, so maybe you decide
that there's not the budget forbonuses this year.
So an employee that goes aboveand beyond according to your
rubric and is really dedicatedis told that their work was
acceptable, because if youcategorize them as exceeding
(10:36):
expectations, you'd have tofinancially compensate them, and
you're not doing that this year.
Do you know what happens to avery dedicated employee who goes
above and beyond and is toldthat they met expectations?
I'll tell you that it feelslike a slap in the face that
they feel that all the care andeffort they put in was not
appreciated in any way, andyou're either going to lose the
desire to put in that extraeffort or they may even already
(10:59):
have a foot out the doorthinking well, I'm going to go
find someone who will appreciatehow hard I work and how much I
care about this.
So if you are going to offerany sort of financial reward,
make sure that both you are veryclear on expectations and that
you can guarantee that thisthing will be consistent year to
year, so you're notaccidentally telling your
employees that they are not asvaluable as they think or
(11:21):
they're not doing as well asthey think.
Make sure that that piece canbe consistent.
This all being said, I ofcourse recognize that whatever
industry you're in, there'sgoing to be variation on how you
are able to compensateemployees.
I used to work in non-profit,which is well known for having a
harder time with having goodbudget for employee salaries,
(11:42):
and, at the very least, I hopethat you are able to consider
your employee experiencerelevant to the field, because
they'll know the expectations ofyour industry roughly and they
will be comparing you to how youprioritize them as assets or
not, because at a deep level,this isn't about money at all.
This is around your mindsetabout employees, the same
(12:02):
question you asked earlier doyou see them as a burden or do
you see them as a strength andan asset to your company?
How are you going to show that?
Why would they want to work foryou?
As I mentioned, this is a bigquestion we're going to continue
to answer this next week, goingdeeper into some of those
cultural pieces about how theycan feel special and cared for
(12:23):
and rewarded, even outside ofthis financial piece.
So make sure you tune into thatand, as a reminder, if you have
a question or an idea that youwant to share with the show,
please share that with us.
We would love to have it.
You can find the link for thatin the description below and we
hope to hear from you.
I want to thank you so much forlearning with me today, for
(12:45):
considering this.
Some of these thoughts can bepretty insidious and deep in our
mindset.
The fear that we have aroundthese things can have a pretty
tight hold.
So thank you for taking thetime and the consideration to
start exploring those littlebits of fear with me and, as we
close, remember to ask yourselfwhat kind of ripples am I going
(13:05):
to create this week?
Speaker 1 (13:07):
We hope you enjoyed the episode.
Make sure to subscribe, commentand connect with Leah at
meetleahca.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.