June 29, 2023 • 36 mins
Have you ever had to learn leadership skills the hard way? Join us for an enlightening conversation with our guest, Deb Coviello, as she shares her journey from STEM professional to vice president of Quality for a major company. We discuss practical advice on how to give good feedback that can have a huge impact and other strategies to help leaders transform their leadership.
Through her experiences, Deb founded her company, Illumination Partners, and created The Drop-In CEO brand, where she partners with CEOs, founders, and presidents facing a crisis to assess the landscape and work together to develop a solution. Deb also shares insights from her book, "The CEO's Compass: Your Guide to Get Back on Track," and emphasizes the importance of focusing on the people and their capabilities before relying on technical solutions.
Leveraging resources like mentors, advisors, and coaches can make a significant impact on your leadership style and help you make a real difference in the lives of those around you. Deb shares her expertise on building strong relationships with employers and colleagues, as well as the long-term benefits that come from having support in your leadership development. Don't miss this fantastic episode as we explore the journey of becoming an extraordinary leader with Deb Coviello!
Deb Coviello is an advisor, author, podcast host, and Founder of
Illumination Partners, a consulting firm for CEO’s navigating change.
A trusted partner to C-Suite Leaders, Deb brings 30+ years of
experience and strategy in Quality and Operational Excellence roles
combined with her 20 years in the Flavors and Fragrance industry to
support her clients as they work together to identify, assess, and
solve the issues that are preventing their business growth.
Certified as Lean and Six Sigma Blackbelt in Process Improvement,
she has developed powerful programs devoted to helping CEO’s
identify emerging leaders, understanding “People’’ are your greatest
tool in your toolbox.
Deb is a board member of Women in Flavor & Fragrance Commerce,
(WFFC), an avid Curler with the Cincinnati Curling Club, a mother of
three and resides in Cincinnati Ohio with her Husband Dan of 32
years.
Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please support us on Patreon.
For more leadership tools, check out the free workbooks at KylaCofer.com/freestuff.
Book Kyla to speak at your event here, or to connect further, reach out to Kyla on LinkedIn and Instagram.
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Episode Transcript
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Deb Coviello (00:00):
I have written two types of articles.
One was called Like Red LightDays, When Nothing's Going Right
, and it was interesting;today's article that came out on
LinkedIn, it'll be in mynewsletter, was the converse of
it.
When leaders are havingchallenges with new initiatives
moving things forward andthey're starting to get
frustrated, they should actuallybe looking for those green
lights to indicate keep going,because you are doing the right
(00:23):
things.
Kyla Cofer (00:29):
Welcome to the Leadership School podcast.
I'm your host, leadership andself-care coach, Kyla Cofer.
Here at the Leadership School,you'll hear leaders from around
the world sharing their storiesand expertise on how to lead
with balance and integrity.
Our goal teach you how to be anextraordinary leader.
Welcome back, leaders.
(00:56):
I'm here today with Deb Coviello, so Deb is an advisor, author,
podcast host.
She hosts the podcast, theDrop-In CEO, and she's the
founder of Illumination Partners.
So what she does is she nowconsults C-suite leaders.
So, as a C-suite leader herself, she was the vice president for
many, many years.
She now takes everything thatshe learned and coaches CEOs on
(01:18):
how to lead better.
And really she has a coolcompany, the Drop-In CEO.
She talks about how she reallycomes in and helps CEOs at every
level.
What I really loved most aboutthis episode was some practical
advice that she gave us onfeedback.
So she talked about severaldifferent avenues of how you can
really transform yourleadership, especially when you
(01:41):
need to learn a new way ofthinking, but one of those
pieces was feedback.
So within here, she's going totell us how some really cool and
helpful tips on how to givegood feedback that really make a
huge impact.
So this is really valuable tome.
I thought it was a fantasticconversation.
I'm really pleased to introduceyou to Deb Coviello.
(02:03):
Thanks so much, Deb, forjoining me.
Well, seriously, Deb, thanksfor joining me.
I'm excited for ourconversation.
I'm looking forward to hearingyour story.
So tell us your story.
What brought you here?
and tell us your journey andreally how you got to Leadership
School.
Deb Coviello (02:16):
Well.
Again, thank you for theopportunity to be able to speak
to your audience.
It is a long and curvy journey,but I will just start by saying
I started my education as apretty much a STEM professional.
I love math and science And Itook that through my high school
years And ultimately, when Ihad to make a decision about
going to college, I landed inengineering because I was a
(02:40):
problem solver.
I was curious, I was also veryoutspoken, I was talkative, and
part of my story as I wentthrough the educational system
was being a smart student can bea double-edged sword.
You have a lot of questions,you want to know everything
about the world, and thensociety says you're being
disruptive, be quiet.
And so what I found with thatis that I was naturally
(03:03):
outspoken, extroverted andcurious about the world, but
society would kind of push thatdown a little bit And I was very
frustrated.
Over many years I would goquiet, but then over time, as I
went into college, I would startspeaking up again.
I would ask a lot of questions,even into my corporate journey,
where I started out as aquality engineer operational
(03:24):
excellence.
I want to just make thingsbetter, faster, cheaper in a
manufacturing environment.
I would start speaking up again, ask questions.
I would be the first one towant to ask a question about why
are we having this problem?
What are all the causes?
I was a problem solver Andsociety would answer my
questions, but also they didn'tappreciate it.
So it was interesting as I wentthrough life Smart person, very
(03:48):
curious, wanted to speak andhave questions answered, but
society, like I said, didn'talways appreciate.
And that was always a challengefor me because I felt like I
was a leader but not in theright place.
And as I went through my career,I went into various industries,
from electronics totelecommunications And I wound
(04:08):
up in the flavor and fragranceindustry.
I started moving up intoleadership positions, but I will
tell you, it came from a placeof.
I was a go-getter, I was asubject matter expert, I got
things done and I would bepromoted And I was a good talker
, I was a good speaker.
But then every time I would getinto these higher levels of
(04:30):
responsibility, I would hitroadblocks.
I couldn't get things done.
And I know as really smartprofessionals, you get
frustrated because you just wantto get things done.
But along the way we're notnecessarily taught those skills
to navigate leadership.
We think we're leaders becausewe know our stuff, but then
we're never really coached on.
Well, how do you articulate amessage versus just putting up
(04:53):
PowerPoints?
How do you align withstakeholders?
Because if you have a newinitiative that you're excited
about, they don't teach youabout stakeholder management.
And then those professionals,those young professionals just
like I, are so frustrated.
Well, I learned the hard wayAnd I know we're going to talk
about this.
Along the way, I learned someof those skills to ultimately,
(05:14):
when I got to my last corporaterole, I was the head, the vice
president of quality for a majorcompany.
And I realized my leadershipstyle and we'll talk more about
this was one of not necessarilymeeting the smartest person in
the room.
But how could I help the peoplearound me elevate their impact
and take on a different role,which again is leadership,
(05:35):
sometimes being more quiet andother things.
Again, I didn't have a lot ofsupport along the way.
I had to learn the hard way.
So, as I went into my ownbusiness about four years ago, I
do serve businesses that arehaving challenges and quality
and operations, but one of thethings I find is a miss in
corporate is that we don'tnecessarily elevate the leaders
(05:58):
of tomorrow, to be able tosustain some of the great work
that I and senior leaders can do, and so fast forward.
That's why I'm here right now.
I love helping businesses getmove along in their journeys,
but the greater purpose of whatI really do is to help those
aspiring leaders of tomorrow beable to navigate their
challenges with confidence andstruggle less, so they can spend
(06:20):
more time doing the things theylove to do.
So that's my story.
I'm sticking to it, but there'sa lot in there, because
leadership has to be nurtured.
We have to model the rightbehavior, and I didn't have a
lot of that.
I had to figure it out the hardway.
But I am so glad that I'm heretoday to share a little bit more
insight with your community.
Kyla Cofer (06:39):
Awesome.
Well, i'm really glad you'rehere and it's so fun hearing
people's leadership journeys.
I love talking to people who'vehad this full career because
it's not like because you know,you don't know everything, but
you also have this story ofyou've been through a lot and
you've gone through and have allthese experiences.
So tell me more about, like,let's get into this VP role that
(07:00):
you're doing.
And, as you kind of weregrowing into these roles, what
stuck out to you that made youstart like asking some bigger
questions about how can I leadbetter?
Deb Coviello (07:10):
Yeah, I really appreciate that And
unfortunately, you know, wedon't often like to air our
dirty laundry.
But I was at a place where myresponsibility increased and the
burdens and the risks increased.
And I got into situations whereI wasn't actually sure how to
solve it.
Sometimes we think if we justwork longer hours, we'll figure
(07:31):
this out.
And you know that's the wayleaders get overwhelmed and
broken.
And so I had to give a majorpresentation, a presentation to
a global set of quality leaderson what was I going to do the
next year to improve the qualityin my region, and my region was
all of North America.
Again a heavy burden to bear,but we were not doing well.
(07:54):
We were in the last place outof four regions And that so
that's a daunting task to beable to say well, believe me,
we're going to fix it.
And I realized I couldn't runmy region by just working harder
and pushing people etc.
to get a different result.
So I went to Europe and I tooksome time over the weekend, when
(08:14):
I was getting used to the jetlag and all, and really thinking
like, who am I as a leader?
What kind of leader do I wantto be?
Do I want to be the one that'sin the fire with the people?
Or do I want to be somebodydifferent?
Because what was my purpose?
Why was I trying to do all thisstuff?
And I got to this soulful placeof you know, I just don't want
(08:34):
to work so hard.
I have kids, just like you.
I want to spend more time,maybe walking, maybe reading,
maybe writing and not strugglingas much.
And, by the way, I want to dothat for the people around me.
I don't want them working 12and 14 hour days.
So how then do I, as a leader,change the landscape so we're
working smarter And my role isno longer the firefighter, but
(08:57):
what could I do to elevate theirpotential?
Are there gaps in theirleadership style?
Do they know how to message andinfluence people versus getting
frustrated when they justdeliver a PowerPoint and people
deflect or don't pay attention?
So I said going into this, thisis my purpose, this is the kind
of leader I'm going to be, thisis how we're going to do things
differently.
And at the end of thepresentation, I left a little
(09:19):
bit of time for Q&A.
The problem was at the end ofthat journey and delivering that
presentation.
I felt so good about the seniorleaders in the room said that
was very nice, but you didn'tleave enough time to discuss the
details of what you were goingto do next year.
And I'll tell you.
I felt extremely deflatedbecause I felt I had been on a
(09:40):
journey of being a better leaderfor the people around me and
being able to get a differentresult.
And so, with that feeling, Iwent to lunch with colleagues
and I was very quiet and I justfelt very shamed and deflated at
that moment.
But as the conversation went,they said to me I said, deb, we
really loved your presentation.
I said we need different leadersthat think differently, because
(10:02):
that way we're going to get adifferent result and we really
love your thoughts and whatyou're going to do.
And with that I realized I wasonto something that the way
others were leading where itwasn't going to serve me.
I had to find my own path.
And with that I was successfulin leading differently, leading
from the heart, removingbarriers from the people around
(10:24):
me, helping them with theirleadership capability.
And we moved from the numberfour region to the number two
region in about 18 months.
And so it was a victory.
But it was also a personalvictory, realizing sometimes we
need to learn new skills as aleader in order to get a
different result.
And again why I am here withyou to try to help people find
(10:45):
their leadership style, honethose skills so they can do that
work that they're meant to do.
Kyla Cofer (10:50):
Wow.
So I really love hearing theselike stories of how I went from
number four to number two in 18months and just hearing that
timeframe and hearing that youactually were intentional about
when you went into that meetingabout how you were going to
present that, how you're goingto come across what changes you
were going to make differently,and then you went about leading
the way on those changes.
So you want to know some moredetails about what did you do
(11:13):
differently.
So you said you had to go dosomething differently.
What was that difference thatmade such a difference?
and like how maybe you can tellus a couple of the steps or a
couple of the things you focusedon that really made a big
impact in making those shiftsfor you and your team and
ultimately, like your company.
You said your region was all ofNorth America.
Deb Coviello (11:36):
Eight plants of responsibility.
That's a huge region.
Kyla Cofer (11:39):
You were manufacturing right.
So tell us about like what thatlooked like.
Deb Coviello (11:43):
So let me just tell you first of all, it was my
choice to have that level ofresponsibility.
It had been a dream for about10 years.
I said I want to be able tohave greater impact because,
rather than just being anindividual contributor or
working at a single plant, Iknew I could have greater
breadth.
So I jumped in to what I wishedfor and, of course, met with
these challenges.
(12:03):
But there's a couple areaswhere I learned some things that
unleashed potential in othersor in myself, and two particular
things.
One is feedback.
Feedback is a gift.
People don't have a greatframework to deliver or receive
feedback.
When you get to yourperformance review, you say, hey
(12:23):
, you did a good job, abovetarget, and you get very little
bit about well, what could I dodifferently?
Often, if you get a bad review,you get surprised Like why
didn't you tell me all year long?
And I learned the art of onefrom my own personal development
When I wanted feedback ratherthan just saying how am I doing,
people are either going to saygood, keep doing what you're
(12:47):
doing.
Well, let me get back to you.
When you ask open-endedquestions, you're not going to
get the desired result.
Similarly, when I wanted togive feedback to my people, it
had to have a framework.
So the framework for feedback,both for your personal
development as well asdeveloping others under you, is
what should they continue doing?
number one what should theystart doing?
(13:07):
number two and number threewhat should they change?
Now, these words de-emphasizethe negativity you might have
about feedback.
But if you talk about what youshould continue, that talks to
the person's superpower andgives them affirmation to keep
going with this.
So that's great.
You want to start from a placeof okay, I can, actually, I'll
(13:27):
keep doing what I'm good at.
When you give them feedbackabout what to start doing, it's
about what can you do on top ofwhat you're already doing?
Well, they'll enhance andenhance your superpower and your
impact.
And then, what should youchange?
If you don't stop doing thisthing or change it, it might
detract from your superpower.
And when you have thatframework, you can talk about
(13:48):
very specific things and peoplecan go away and action on it.
Quick story I had one person whowas a super at his technical
content And I said after aparticular presentation is it
okay if I give you some feedback?
And he said, absolutely, I wantto get better.
So what I did was I said youare the technical expert in this
(14:08):
quality area.
Keep doing that.
You are the go-to person.
You're smarter than me.
Just continue honing your craftand being very clear about what
do we need to do to improvequality.
I said what you might want tostart doing because what you did
differently at this meeting waswhen you were presenting, you
were standing up And the energythat you use while you're
(14:28):
standing up, you commanded theaudience And I saw people
leaning into you.
They were very engaged becausewhen you stood up, your breath,
your tone was strong.
I want you to start, even ifyou're in your own office giving
a presentation, start standing,because it emphasizes your
impact.
And they said the last thingyou might want to change is your
(14:49):
hands are not stable.
You're moving your hands allthe way around.
You're putting your hands inyour pocket.
You're looking for a place tostabilize your hands.
It detracts from a greatpresentation.
I said you might want to put apen in your hand or a pointer to
ground yourself.
And so, your great technicalexpert, make sure you always
stand to enhance that superpowerand ground yourself such that
(15:12):
people can really absorb that.
Well, let me tell you after Igave that feedback, not only was
he the go-to person wherepeople would pull him into
meetings, he was the person theypulled in for problem solving.
He then became a sought outleader in other regions,
leveraging my resource, and sothat's an example of how we, as
leaders, need to learn how toeither ask for feedback if we're
(15:34):
not getting it, or be able togive feedback to, maybe people
that work for us or around us.
That way, we can elevateleaders or elevate yourself.
So that's just one thing Ilearned.
The art of feedback was thebest tool I had each time I had
a one-on-one with people aroundme.
Kyla Cofer (15:51):
Yeah, I just want to say that it's so helpful and I
really love the new questionsbecause I've talked about
feedback on the podcast before.
But when you simplify it withonly three questions, it's
continual feedback.
You can give ongoing feedbackinstead of let's just get into
your form performance review andcheck off all the marks and
tell you what you're doing wrongand what you're not doing well,
(16:11):
and it really makes that tricky.
But when you can focussomething simple of here's three
basic questions that I'm goingto ask and approach you with
these, it makes the wholeexchange extremely positive and
makes everybody on the same team.
It makes you all want to worktogether.
I want to work with you rightnow because I'm like, oh, come
(16:31):
on, give me some feedback rightnow on being a podcast host,
because I'm like, oh, I can getbetter from this.
It's not where I'm going to goback to my office and feel
shamed about all the things Idid wrong and have to repeat all
of it and filter through andprocess all the information.
No, i don't even need to dothat, because right now I'm
ready to go and be the bestpresenter out there, because
(16:53):
you've just given me like aground to stand on.
So I started this podcastbecause I wanted to learn and
grow in my leadership journeyand I have been so incredibly
inspired by the guests and theconversations.
So once the interview ends, Iactually keep the conversation
going because I have found thatsometimes the richest part of
the conversation is when we feellike the interview is over and
(17:16):
we can just kind of have arelaxed, more casual
conversation.
So if you've noticed, if you'vebeen following this podcast for
some time, I used to ask everyguest two questions What does
integrity mean to them and whatdoes balance look like to them?
Well, I haven't stopped askingthose questions.
We're just putting those overon our Patreon page.
So go check it out atpatreoncom slash leadership
(17:38):
school And for $6.50 a month youcan support this podcast.
It takes a lot to produce everysingle episode And, honestly, i
can use a little bit of support.
So anything that you're able tocontribute would really mean a
lot to me and would be able tohelp me to continue to bring
these high caliber guests in tohave conversations on what does
(18:00):
it look like to be anextraordinary leader and how do
we practically do that.
So those conversations arecontinuing over at patreoncom
slash leadership school, whereI'm asking guests some extra
questions, some bonus questions.
You'll get some bonus contentover there, so be sure to go
check it out And thanks so muchfor your support and thanks so
much for subscribing, listeningand sharing this podcast.
(18:22):
It really does mean a lot AndI'm so honored to show up here
in your podcast feed.
Deb Coviello (18:28):
So feedback and a few other things were things I
started doing, being moreintentional about the
development of the people, moreso than starting my one on ones
with hey, tell me how thatinitiative is going, or am I
going to get that report nextweek?
It's very tactical And what Ihave found in leadership is that
(18:50):
it's not about how can I helpyou get the work done.
Yes, they have to identifytheir barriers, but I actually
start my one ones with makingsure there's always an element
of personal development, becausepeople are really smart,
they've gotten theircertifications, their extra
degrees, they're moving up intheir career, they are ambitious
.
But when we always start ourone on one conversations with
(19:10):
peers or our bosses only aboutthe tactical work, we need to
focus more on closing thoseessential skills, those
leadership gaps.
How can I?
I got a new initiative I'mreally excited about, but I went
to that manager and he didn'thave time for me.
Well, did you communicate withthem the right way?
Did you Send an email in a waythat caught their attention?
(19:31):
and when you had time with them, we use the sink.
Get to the point What was thehighlight, what was your
proposal, and then enrich itwith additional details.
I focused on developing theessential skills of the people
because when you can close thosegaps, everything falls into
place.
When you say, hey, work morehours, let's throw more
resources, you might get aparticular result for a short
(19:53):
amount of time.
You build people's confidence,give them capability that they
didn't have before.
Those are lifetime skills.
They will be able to performover and over again And get
sustainable results for theorganization.
Leaders have it wrong.
They just focus on what we needto get done.
Let's focus on the peopledevelopment, which is the work
you do and I love to do.
(20:13):
You're gonna get a much betterresult.
Kyla Cofer (20:17):
Yeah, awesome.
So what was the other thing?
yes, so did you just say it?
Deb Coviello (20:20):
messaging.
I want to talk to you aboutmessaging.
So how often have you gone intoa conference room and say The
sky is falling, we need to buy anew piece of equipment because
if we don't do it we're gonnaget a lot of customer returns?
And people will be quiet orthey'll say can we take that
offline or it's not in thebudget.
(20:40):
And people that are so excitedthey know that if they fix this
particular problem with theprogram Purchase of a piece of
equipment, they are going tosolve the problem.
The problem is, as we train ourpeople you're in supply chain,
you're in HR We tell you how todo a pretty PowerPoint, dot the
I's, cross the T's anddisseminate information.
What we don't teach our up andcoming professionals.
(21:03):
It's not about the information.
It's about building trust,building a relationship and
messaging.
And messaging is very differentthan just disseminating
information, or didn't you seeit in my pie chart?
This pie chart showed it's thebiggest issue.
We have to spend money instead.
You could frame it up somethinglike that And I'll tell you the
(21:23):
framework here.
But it's really about groundingpeople in a bigger purpose.
We're all here to gain marketshare for our clients and the
problem right now is that we'reexperiencing a huge number of
returns because our internalequipment is not capable of
detecting failures And it'scausing customer complaints.
We potentially have saleserosion and if we don't do that,
(21:45):
we're going to see the marketshare dwindle, and that's what
we've been all trying to do isincrease it.
As you can see, if we spendthis amount of money, it will
get in us an ROI in about twomonths and I propose we move
forward so we can minimize therisk.
That's so different than justsaying look at my pie chart,
can't you see we need to buythis piece of equipment.
Kyla Cofer (22:05):
Well, you told a story with it you shared the
whole story with it and peoplegot to understand what was going
to actually happen here.
They got to feel involved inthe decision and they understood
it To your point.
Deb Coviello (22:15):
Yes, you're right.
By telling a story, you connectwith humanity.
You find some point ofconnection where they can
emotionally say, yeah, I've beenworking my tail off, we've been
trying to get more sales here,and then when you say, but did
you realize we're actuallyshooting ourselves in the foot.
If we don't take care of this,all that work you've been doing
is not going to get us we want.
A small investment now willmitigate any erosion to what
(22:39):
we're doing.
So it's storytelling, it'smessaging, it's getting at their
heartstrings.
And the data?
yes, it has to be accurate, butwe have to de-emphasize the
data and make sure we connectwith the people and message it
in the right way.
That was a leadership thingthat I had to change, not only
for myself to say I need moreequipment I, need more people.
(22:59):
Like the sky is burning, I'mnot going to be able to contain
this issue.
I need people because of this,and things will happen faster
than just here's my PowerPoint,and so those are things that I
was doing differently and Iwould.
I still now teach people had amessage versus disseminating
information.
It'll get a completelydifferent result in your
(23:20):
leadership journey.
Kyla Cofer (23:22):
Wow and and so really focusing in on giving
better feedback And getting moretangible feedback and changing
the way that you approach thestory and the message of what
you're trying to get across.
Took you from in your wholeindustry, from number four, in
your region, the entirecontinent of North America,
(23:45):
number two, which is kind of abig deal.
I think.
Deb Coviello (23:49):
Let me just clarify it was just the US, but
there was still eight.
I didn't have Canada or Mexico,but that was still a lot of
people, a lot of sales, a lot ofrisk and responsibility.
Kyla Cofer (24:02):
So still pretty big yeah, so you're working as a
drop in CEO.
I don't know if you mentionedthat earlier, but that's what
you're kind of doing, rightyou're?
you're jumping in as a CEO andhelping people transform their
organizations.
Deb Coviello (24:15):
Let me clarify that.
So in my journey, while I haveformed a company called
Illumination Partners, Irealized that if I wanted to
message and get my word out topeople I could help.
I had to create a brand.
That was something a little bitdifferent.
It is called The Drop In CEObecause that was how I dropped
(24:36):
into crises over and over againin my corporate career and then
I was drawn to CEO's, foundersand presidents that were going
through some kind of crisis andI remember in my past when
somebody had done that I was ina private equity company the CEO
would drop into the company Andhelp us with the business issue
, but at the same time theybuilt our confidence and left a
(24:58):
lasting impact.
And then they left, and thenthey brought in another CEO, and
that is my way of operating.
I basically become the CEOwhisperer.
I will drop into somebody whois having a challenge or they
need to go through a change, anew customer, new requirements.
Maybe they lost a leader.
I need to become one with theCEO and do what they need to do
(25:21):
assess the landscape, decidewhat treatment is needed, and
I'll do the technical work.
I'm not just a consultant sayyou need to do this.
I will do this partner with theCEO and do the work with the
people.
But while I'm in there part ofmy brand what I do is I will
also look at the capability ofthe people and their confidence.
And in the new state that webring the company through, we
(25:43):
get a certification, we'reincreasing volume.
Do they have the capability Andleadership skills to be able to
support that change?
Kyla Cofer (25:52):
Just to summarize you were saying that now you're
going in and you're helping andyou're doing all the parts is
with like a CEO.
So you're going to go in and dothe actual work as the CEO, but
you're also working in thepeople aspect of it.
Will tell me what that is.
What does that mean?
what's the people aspect of it?
Deb Coviello (26:07):
Okay.
So I'm so glad you asked meabout this, but here's the
interesting thing I had aparticular client that I'm
working with right now and wewere starting to lose clients,
and so I did do some crisismanagement.
We met with their clients,understood what the issues were,
brought that feedback into ourprocess and fixed those things
and gave them at least peace ofmind that we were going to fix
(26:27):
things.
And then follow-up meetings sowe could stop the erosion of
potential loss of clients.
And along the way, i said tothe CEO.
I said, okay, after we fix thiscrisis here, i said there's
people in there that are notcross-trained.
The reason why we're havingthese issues is they miss
details.
Their onboarding was not ascomplete as it could be So
immediately we went into then.
(26:49):
Well, what are their jobdescriptions?
What is their training looklike?
And we soon found a lot of gapsin that area.
So we are now, even now, goingthrough getting clear standards.
What do we expect of them, andnot even just technically are
they trained.
But I added the additionalelement of what are those
essential skills, and I use aLominger model which has about
(27:09):
50 or so different types ofessential skills that we
identify for each position,whether it's communication, time
management, navigatingdifficult situations.
We incorporate that into theirjob description and we are
trying to close those gaps.
Every single time I'm broughtinto a situation, the leader
will say can you help me with myleadership development?
(27:30):
And so I do that gladly,because that's what's going to
sustain the work we're doing.
Kyla Cofer (27:35):
Wow.
So I'm just thinking throughwhat you said And I think that
it's so valuable that you'refocusing on both things.
It's the actual doing the work,but also how can we grow and
develop ourselves in that?
And I love that idea of makingsure that we're all
cross-trained, that we allunderstand the work that we're
doing and how my work affectssomebody else and how we can
(27:57):
work together in that.
Deb Coviello (27:59):
And I find that's a big miss And that is also the
reason why I wrote the CEO'sCompass Your Guide.
To Get Back on Track, becauseleaders, as you're moving up,
might find a recipe for success.
I go into a situation I getpeople organized, we do change
management and they'resuccessful.
But as they're moving up intheir career to higher levels of
leadership responsibility,sometimes they're faced with a
(28:21):
situation and the old playbookdoesn't work And what I have
found is it's not like oh, I gotto get more technical people, I
need the latest platform tomake me more efficient.
People focus on the wrongthings.
As a leader, it is all about thepeople development first,
because it's humans that run theworld.
Don't put a new system on topof a bad culture or people that
(28:42):
can't perform or are working insilos.
I look for how can I improvethe confidence, the capability,
the capacity of the people to dothe work and then give them the
additional tools, et cetera, ontop.
So I often will coachindividuals.
I will look at team dynamics onhow they're interacting with
each other, because that couldbe another issue.
And if people don't know how tointeract, communicate,
(29:04):
collaborate with people, theworst thing that happens is your
customers are going to feelthat dysfunction.
So again, what I do will fixthe people issues, solve the
technical issues, But again, apeople focused first is really
my leadership style, in additionto helping that CEO.
Kyla Cofer (29:22):
Well, we've already proven over and over through our
podcast, leadership school,that people first is a very
effective way to go aboutleading an organization is
focusing it on the people.
But what I thought was reallyinteresting about what you said
just now was that you said thatyou can't run a new play from an
old playbook.
And, thinking through that, howmany times do we show up trying
(29:43):
to do things the way we'vealways done it?
And it could be reallydifficult teaching an old dog
new tricks, right?
So, coming in and you've workedyour way up this ladder, you're
a leader in whatever roleyou're in because of how well
you did in the past.
But this new situation isdifferent And it can be really
tricky to start.
You're like, oh, all of asudden, the rules have changed,
(30:03):
right, so you have to learn newrules and reframe your
perspective to do something alittle bit different, and that
takes a lot of self-awareness tobe able to do.
Deb Coviello (30:13):
It's called don't react, pause and reflect.
I'm about to blow my top.
I under people acting the way Iwant to.
Let me have a moment.
And that's also self-disciplineas a leader not to react.
But if you are not getting thedesired results, you are upset
about the outcome.
You need to pause and reflect,and I had to remind myself all
day today all about that.
(30:34):
But it's one of those thingslike what if you did well in a
great culture?
then you get a new job atanother company, you apply the
playbook and people aren'tbehaving the way we want them to
.
And so then we say, oh, this isa terrible culture, when we
need to take personalaccountability Again.
That's another leadership skill.
What is different about thisculture?
What is different about thepeople's behavior?
(30:56):
It is on us, as leaders, to becurious and say help me to
understand your past, tell meabout what you've done for this
organization, help me tounderstand why Is it a little
bit more challenging to getinitiatives through?
Is there something I've missedalong the way?
And so, rather than being upsetabout behavior because they're
not needing your old standardthat's a victim mentality One
(31:17):
needs to say okay, wait a second, i need to figure this out and
take the time to get to know thenew people before you even
start driving your ideas.
And then you've got data andyou've got context.
I'm going to have to do alittle bit more change
management with a lot morestakeholders if I want to be
able to move something forward.
So with that again, playbookschange.
(31:41):
You need to be very agile tofigure out what from your
playbook can you pull out.
Maybe you need to do a littlemore of or a little less of in
order to be successful.
Kyla Cofer (31:49):
My new favorite phrase is level up.
that I need to level up, AndI've also noticed that when
things feel kind of chaotic orthey feel really tricky or
things aren't going the way thatI anticipate they were, it's
really just kind of my smallworld telling me that it's time
for me to level up that in doingthis hard work and going
(32:10):
through like paying attention,doing the hiring the coach or
bringing somebody in, doing abig picture perspective and
breaking things down, whateverit is that you need to do but do
those things even thoughthey're hard, and the more you
push through them, the more youlevel up.
Deb Coviello (32:23):
And I'm going to share one little piece of advice
.
It's one that I have had toshare with myself.
Before you and I jumped on here, I said I was having a red
light kind of day.
Nothing was working And, ratherthan getting upset and yeah, I
had my pity party with myhusband and talked about it a
little bit the thing I know is,every single time I am
(32:44):
frustrated, sleep on it.
One day will make a difference.
The next day you'll be able totalk to your boss.
You'll be able to talk to thatperson that you perceived as
difficult.
You'll get new information thatprovides context for why were
you hitting a wall.
Be patient and disciplined andfind ways to diffuse that
negative energy, because Ipromise you, the next day will
(33:07):
reveal why you felt that way andthe solutions will come forward
.
Again, a hard leadership trickyou gotta learn.
Kyla Cofer (33:14):
Absolutely.
I mean, how many problems havebeen solved just by taking a
step back and allowing ourbrains and our minds and our
bodies to reset?
Or just taking just having amoment to play.
Go have fun, do something funand life giving for yourself.
That we get so caught up in ourwork, right, that we forget
that we can go play.
Still, we can go have fun, wecan go do fun things for
(33:36):
ourselves.
What do we really like?
enjoy doing that gives us life.
Then we come back to the workstuff and it all makes much more
sense after that.
Deb Coviello (33:45):
I mean it really does.
I was frustrated.
I had a colleague and I let myhair down and said I'm just
having a tough day, and then westarted going back and forth I
mean not unprofessionally andthen I started laughing and then
it was like everything's fine,everything's fine.
Kyla Cofer (33:58):
Yeah, oh, that's wonderful.
Deb, this has been such a goodconversation And I mean I have a
dozen more questions, but Ithink we'll go ahead and wrap up
, because I just feel likeyou've given us some really,
really good tools today and Ijust really appreciate your time
.
I'm curious.
I do have a couple of lastfinal questions for you.
The one is what would be one ofthe best pieces of advice that
you've ever received?
Deb Coviello (34:20):
Oh, there's so many here, but I got this from
my mother, who got it from someold person, but it was like make
you the world a bit more betterand beautiful before, cause you
were in it.
It's a bit about leaving yourlegacy.
Don't just do the work, butmake an impact and influence
people.
Kyla Cofer (34:36):
Thank you.
Is there anything else you wantto make sure our audience hears
from you today.
Anything, any last minutethoughts that you wanna add?
Deb Coviello (34:42):
Well, first of all , i just want to say thank you
for giving me the opportunity tohave this great conversation
with you and talk to youraudience.
But I will just say just amessage.
I mean, if you are looking forinspirational resources again,
Kyla is, you know, through herleadership school.
You stay there.
She's got great content.
But I too.
If you want an additionalresource, my website is the drop
(35:02):
in CEO and there I have blogposts I have.
I wrote about the red light day, the green light day.
All of these are leadershiptips and resources for you.
I also have a podcast as well.
But just know, don't do thisalone.
Leverage Kyla's resources, myresources.
Get a coach, get a mentor.
Leverage these resourcesbecause all you wanna do is make
(35:23):
an impact.
You wanna do purposeful workand develop your leadership
style, because then the impactthat you're gonna make not only
on the employers that you workwith, but the people around you.
They're gonna remember you forhow you made them feel and how
you led them through thedifferent challenges.
Don't do it alone.
Get some support, and I'msticking by that.
Kyla Cofer (35:44):
Brilliant advice from the great Deb Coviello.
Thank you so much, Deb.
Deb Coviello (35:48):
Thank you as well, And be well, thank you.
Kyla Cofer (35:51):
Hey, thank you so much for listening.
If you've liked what you heardand you want some more tools and
resources to help you on yourway, go check out kylacofer.
com/freestuff.
I have written two types of articles.
One was called Like Red LightDays, When Nothing's Going Right
, and it was interesting;today's article that came out on
LinkedIn, it'll be in mynewsletter, was the converse of
it.
When leaders are havingchallenges with new initiatives
moving things forward andthey're starting to get
frustrated, they should actuallybe looking for those green
lights to indicate keep going,because you are doing the right
(00:23):
things.
Kyla Cofer (00:29):
Welcome to the Leadership School podcast.
I'm your host, leadership andself-care coach, Kyla Cofer.
Here at the Leadership School,you'll hear leaders from around
the world sharing their storiesand expertise on how to lead
with balance and integrity.
Our goal teach you how to be anextraordinary leader.
Welcome back, leaders.
(00:56):
I'm here today with Deb Coviello, so Deb is an advisor, author,
podcast host.
She hosts the podcast, theDrop-In CEO, and she's the
founder of Illumination Partners.
So what she does is she nowconsults C-suite leaders.
So, as a C-suite leader herself, she was the vice president for
many, many years.
She now takes everything thatshe learned and coaches CEOs on
(01:18):
how to lead better.
And really she has a coolcompany, the Drop-In CEO.
She talks about how she reallycomes in and helps CEOs at every
level.
What I really loved most aboutthis episode was some practical
advice that she gave us onfeedback.
So she talked about severaldifferent avenues of how you can
really transform yourleadership, especially when you
(01:41):
need to learn a new way ofthinking, but one of those
pieces was feedback.
So within here, she's going totell us how some really cool and
helpful tips on how to givegood feedback that really make a
huge impact.
So this is really valuable tome.
I thought it was a fantasticconversation.
I'm really pleased to introduceyou to Deb Coviello.
(02:03):
Thanks so much, Deb, forjoining me.
Well, seriously, Deb, thanksfor joining me.
I'm excited for ourconversation.
I'm looking forward to hearingyour story.
So tell us your story.
What brought you here?
and tell us your journey andreally how you got to Leadership
School.
Deb Coviello (02:16):
Well.
Again, thank you for theopportunity to be able to speak
to your audience.
It is a long and curvy journey,but I will just start by saying
I started my education as apretty much a STEM professional.
I love math and science And Itook that through my high school
years And ultimately, when Ihad to make a decision about
going to college, I landed inengineering because I was a
(02:40):
problem solver.
I was curious, I was also veryoutspoken, I was talkative, and
part of my story as I wentthrough the educational system
was being a smart student can bea double-edged sword.
You have a lot of questions,you want to know everything
about the world, and thensociety says you're being
disruptive, be quiet.
And so what I found with thatis that I was naturally
(03:03):
outspoken, extroverted andcurious about the world, but
society would kind of push thatdown a little bit And I was very
frustrated.
Over many years I would goquiet, but then over time, as I
went into college, I would startspeaking up again.
I would ask a lot of questions,even into my corporate journey,
where I started out as aquality engineer operational
(03:24):
excellence.
I want to just make thingsbetter, faster, cheaper in a
manufacturing environment.
I would start speaking up again, ask questions.
I would be the first one towant to ask a question about why
are we having this problem?
What are all the causes?
I was a problem solver Andsociety would answer my
questions, but also they didn'tappreciate it.
So it was interesting as I wentthrough life Smart person, very
(03:48):
curious, wanted to speak andhave questions answered, but
society, like I said, didn'talways appreciate.
And that was always a challengefor me because I felt like I
was a leader but not in theright place.
And as I went through my career,I went into various industries,
from electronics totelecommunications And I wound
(04:08):
up in the flavor and fragranceindustry.
I started moving up intoleadership positions, but I will
tell you, it came from a placeof.
I was a go-getter, I was asubject matter expert, I got
things done and I would bepromoted And I was a good talker
, I was a good speaker.
But then every time I would getinto these higher levels of
(04:30):
responsibility, I would hitroadblocks.
I couldn't get things done.
And I know as really smartprofessionals, you get
frustrated because you just wantto get things done.
But along the way we're notnecessarily taught those skills
to navigate leadership.
We think we're leaders becausewe know our stuff, but then
we're never really coached on.
Well, how do you articulate amessage versus just putting up
(04:53):
PowerPoints?
How do you align withstakeholders?
Because if you have a newinitiative that you're excited
about, they don't teach youabout stakeholder management.
And then those professionals,those young professionals just
like I, are so frustrated.
Well, I learned the hard wayAnd I know we're going to talk
about this.
Along the way, I learned someof those skills to ultimately,
(05:14):
when I got to my last corporaterole, I was the head, the vice
president of quality for a majorcompany.
And I realized my leadershipstyle and we'll talk more about
this was one of not necessarilymeeting the smartest person in
the room.
But how could I help the peoplearound me elevate their impact
and take on a different role,which again is leadership,
(05:35):
sometimes being more quiet andother things.
Again, I didn't have a lot ofsupport along the way.
I had to learn the hard way.
So, as I went into my ownbusiness about four years ago, I
do serve businesses that arehaving challenges and quality
and operations, but one of thethings I find is a miss in
corporate is that we don'tnecessarily elevate the leaders
(05:58):
of tomorrow, to be able tosustain some of the great work
that I and senior leaders can do, and so fast forward.
That's why I'm here right now.
I love helping businesses getmove along in their journeys,
but the greater purpose of whatI really do is to help those
aspiring leaders of tomorrow beable to navigate their
challenges with confidence andstruggle less, so they can spend
(06:20):
more time doing the things theylove to do.
So that's my story.
I'm sticking to it, but there'sa lot in there, because
leadership has to be nurtured.
We have to model the rightbehavior, and I didn't have a
lot of that.
I had to figure it out the hardway.
But I am so glad that I'm heretoday to share a little bit more
insight with your community.
Kyla Cofer (06:39):
Awesome.
Well, i'm really glad you'rehere and it's so fun hearing
people's leadership journeys.
I love talking to people who'vehad this full career because
it's not like because you know,you don't know everything, but
you also have this story ofyou've been through a lot and
you've gone through and have allthese experiences.
So tell me more about, like,let's get into this VP role that
(07:00):
you're doing.
And, as you kind of weregrowing into these roles, what
stuck out to you that made youstart like asking some bigger
questions about how can I leadbetter?
Deb Coviello (07:10):
Yeah, I really appreciate that And
unfortunately, you know, wedon't often like to air our
dirty laundry.
But I was at a place where myresponsibility increased and the
burdens and the risks increased.
And I got into situations whereI wasn't actually sure how to
solve it.
Sometimes we think if we justwork longer hours, we'll figure
(07:31):
this out.
And you know that's the wayleaders get overwhelmed and
broken.
And so I had to give a majorpresentation, a presentation to
a global set of quality leaderson what was I going to do the
next year to improve the qualityin my region, and my region was
all of North America.
Again a heavy burden to bear,but we were not doing well.
(07:54):
We were in the last place outof four regions And that so
that's a daunting task to beable to say well, believe me,
we're going to fix it.
And I realized I couldn't runmy region by just working harder
and pushing people etc.
to get a different result.
So I went to Europe and I tooksome time over the weekend, when
(08:14):
I was getting used to the jetlag and all, and really thinking
like, who am I as a leader?
What kind of leader do I wantto be?
Do I want to be the one that'sin the fire with the people?
Or do I want to be somebodydifferent?
Because what was my purpose?
Why was I trying to do all thisstuff?
And I got to this soulful placeof you know, I just don't want
(08:34):
to work so hard.
I have kids, just like you.
I want to spend more time,maybe walking, maybe reading,
maybe writing and not strugglingas much.
And, by the way, I want to dothat for the people around me.
I don't want them working 12and 14 hour days.
So how then do I, as a leader,change the landscape so we're
working smarter And my role isno longer the firefighter, but
(08:57):
what could I do to elevate theirpotential?
Are there gaps in theirleadership style?
Do they know how to message andinfluence people versus getting
frustrated when they justdeliver a PowerPoint and people
deflect or don't pay attention?
So I said going into this, thisis my purpose, this is the kind
of leader I'm going to be, thisis how we're going to do things
differently.
And at the end of thepresentation, I left a little
(09:19):
bit of time for Q&A.
The problem was at the end ofthat journey and delivering that
presentation.
I felt so good about the seniorleaders in the room said that
was very nice, but you didn'tleave enough time to discuss the
details of what you were goingto do next year.
And I'll tell you.
I felt extremely deflatedbecause I felt I had been on a
(09:40):
journey of being a better leaderfor the people around me and
being able to get a differentresult.
And so, with that feeling, Iwent to lunch with colleagues
and I was very quiet and I justfelt very shamed and deflated at
that moment.
But as the conversation went,they said to me I said, deb, we
really loved your presentation.
I said we need different leadersthat think differently, because
(10:02):
that way we're going to get adifferent result and we really
love your thoughts and whatyou're going to do.
And with that I realized I wasonto something that the way
others were leading where itwasn't going to serve me.
I had to find my own path.
And with that I was successfulin leading differently, leading
from the heart, removingbarriers from the people around
(10:24):
me, helping them with theirleadership capability.
And we moved from the numberfour region to the number two
region in about 18 months.
And so it was a victory.
But it was also a personalvictory, realizing sometimes we
need to learn new skills as aleader in order to get a
different result.
And again why I am here withyou to try to help people find
(10:45):
their leadership style, honethose skills so they can do that
work that they're meant to do.
Kyla Cofer (10:50):
Wow.
So I really love hearing theselike stories of how I went from
number four to number two in 18months and just hearing that
timeframe and hearing that youactually were intentional about
when you went into that meetingabout how you were going to
present that, how you're goingto come across what changes you
were going to make differently,and then you went about leading
the way on those changes.
So you want to know some moredetails about what did you do
(11:13):
differently.
So you said you had to go dosomething differently.
What was that difference thatmade such a difference?
and like how maybe you can tellus a couple of the steps or a
couple of the things you focusedon that really made a big
impact in making those shiftsfor you and your team and
ultimately, like your company.
You said your region was all ofNorth America.
Deb Coviello (11:36):
Eight plants of responsibility.
That's a huge region.
Kyla Cofer (11:39):
You were manufacturing right.
So tell us about like what thatlooked like.
Deb Coviello (11:43):
So let me just tell you first of all, it was my
choice to have that level ofresponsibility.
It had been a dream for about10 years.
I said I want to be able tohave greater impact because,
rather than just being anindividual contributor or
working at a single plant, Iknew I could have greater
breadth.
So I jumped in to what I wishedfor and, of course, met with
these challenges.
(12:03):
But there's a couple areaswhere I learned some things that
unleashed potential in othersor in myself, and two particular
things.
One is feedback.
Feedback is a gift.
People don't have a greatframework to deliver or receive
feedback.
When you get to yourperformance review, you say, hey
(12:23):
, you did a good job, abovetarget, and you get very little
bit about well, what could I dodifferently?
Often, if you get a bad review,you get surprised Like why
didn't you tell me all year long?
And I learned the art of onefrom my own personal development
When I wanted feedback ratherthan just saying how am I doing,
people are either going to saygood, keep doing what you're
(12:47):
doing.
Well, let me get back to you.
When you ask open-endedquestions, you're not going to
get the desired result.
Similarly, when I wanted togive feedback to my people, it
had to have a framework.
So the framework for feedback,both for your personal
development as well asdeveloping others under you, is
what should they continue doing?
number one what should theystart doing?
(13:07):
number two and number threewhat should they change?
Now, these words de-emphasizethe negativity you might have
about feedback.
But if you talk about what youshould continue, that talks to
the person's superpower andgives them affirmation to keep
going with this.
So that's great.
You want to start from a placeof okay, I can, actually, I'll
(13:27):
keep doing what I'm good at.
When you give them feedbackabout what to start doing, it's
about what can you do on top ofwhat you're already doing?
Well, they'll enhance andenhance your superpower and your
impact.
And then, what should youchange?
If you don't stop doing thisthing or change it, it might
detract from your superpower.
And when you have thatframework, you can talk about
(13:48):
very specific things and peoplecan go away and action on it.
Quick story I had one person whowas a super at his technical
content And I said after aparticular presentation is it
okay if I give you some feedback?
And he said, absolutely, I wantto get better.
So what I did was I said youare the technical expert in this
(14:08):
quality area.
Keep doing that.
You are the go-to person.
You're smarter than me.
Just continue honing your craftand being very clear about what
do we need to do to improvequality.
I said what you might want tostart doing because what you did
differently at this meeting waswhen you were presenting, you
were standing up And the energythat you use while you're
(14:28):
standing up, you commanded theaudience And I saw people
leaning into you.
They were very engaged becausewhen you stood up, your breath,
your tone was strong.
I want you to start, even ifyou're in your own office giving
a presentation, start standing,because it emphasizes your
impact.
And they said the last thingyou might want to change is your
(14:49):
hands are not stable.
You're moving your hands allthe way around.
You're putting your hands inyour pocket.
You're looking for a place tostabilize your hands.
It detracts from a greatpresentation.
I said you might want to put apen in your hand or a pointer to
ground yourself.
And so, your great technicalexpert, make sure you always
stand to enhance that superpowerand ground yourself such that
(15:12):
people can really absorb that.
Well, let me tell you after Igave that feedback, not only was
he the go-to person wherepeople would pull him into
meetings, he was the person theypulled in for problem solving.
He then became a sought outleader in other regions,
leveraging my resource, and sothat's an example of how we, as
leaders, need to learn how toeither ask for feedback if we're
(15:34):
not getting it, or be able togive feedback to, maybe people
that work for us or around us.
That way, we can elevateleaders or elevate yourself.
So that's just one thing Ilearned.
The art of feedback was thebest tool I had each time I had
a one-on-one with people aroundme.
Kyla Cofer (15:51):
Yeah, I just want to say that it's so helpful and I
really love the new questionsbecause I've talked about
feedback on the podcast before.
But when you simplify it withonly three questions, it's
continual feedback.
You can give ongoing feedbackinstead of let's just get into
your form performance review andcheck off all the marks and
tell you what you're doing wrongand what you're not doing well,
(16:11):
and it really makes that tricky.
But when you can focussomething simple of here's three
basic questions that I'm goingto ask and approach you with
these, it makes the wholeexchange extremely positive and
makes everybody on the same team.
It makes you all want to worktogether.
I want to work with you rightnow because I'm like, oh, come
(16:31):
on, give me some feedback rightnow on being a podcast host,
because I'm like, oh, I can getbetter from this.
It's not where I'm going to goback to my office and feel
shamed about all the things Idid wrong and have to repeat all
of it and filter through andprocess all the information.
No, i don't even need to dothat, because right now I'm
ready to go and be the bestpresenter out there, because
(16:53):
you've just given me like aground to stand on.
So I started this podcastbecause I wanted to learn and
grow in my leadership journeyand I have been so incredibly
inspired by the guests and theconversations.
So once the interview ends, Iactually keep the conversation
going because I have found thatsometimes the richest part of
the conversation is when we feellike the interview is over and
(17:16):
we can just kind of have arelaxed, more casual
conversation.
So if you've noticed, if you'vebeen following this podcast for
some time, I used to ask everyguest two questions What does
integrity mean to them and whatdoes balance look like to them?
Well, I haven't stopped askingthose questions.
We're just putting those overon our Patreon page.
So go check it out atpatreoncom slash leadership
(17:38):
school And for $6.50 a month youcan support this podcast.
It takes a lot to produce everysingle episode And, honestly, i
can use a little bit of support.
So anything that you're able tocontribute would really mean a
lot to me and would be able tohelp me to continue to bring
these high caliber guests in tohave conversations on what does
(18:00):
it look like to be anextraordinary leader and how do
we practically do that.
So those conversations arecontinuing over at patreoncom
slash leadership school, whereI'm asking guests some extra
questions, some bonus questions.
You'll get some bonus contentover there, so be sure to go
check it out And thanks so muchfor your support and thanks so
much for subscribing, listeningand sharing this podcast.
(18:22):
It really does mean a lot AndI'm so honored to show up here
in your podcast feed.
Deb Coviello (18:28):
So feedback and a few other things were things I
started doing, being moreintentional about the
development of the people, moreso than starting my one on ones
with hey, tell me how thatinitiative is going, or am I
going to get that report nextweek?
It's very tactical And what Ihave found in leadership is that
(18:50):
it's not about how can I helpyou get the work done.
Yes, they have to identifytheir barriers, but I actually
start my one ones with makingsure there's always an element
of personal development, becausepeople are really smart,
they've gotten theircertifications, their extra
degrees, they're moving up intheir career, they are ambitious
.
But when we always start ourone on one conversations with
(19:10):
peers or our bosses only aboutthe tactical work, we need to
focus more on closing thoseessential skills, those
leadership gaps.
How can I?
I got a new initiative I'mreally excited about, but I went
to that manager and he didn'thave time for me.
Well, did you communicate withthem the right way?
Did you Send an email in a waythat caught their attention?
(19:31):
and when you had time with them, we use the sink.
Get to the point What was thehighlight, what was your
proposal, and then enrich itwith additional details.
I focused on developing theessential skills of the people
because when you can close thosegaps, everything falls into
place.
When you say, hey, work morehours, let's throw more
resources, you might get aparticular result for a short
(19:53):
amount of time.
You build people's confidence,give them capability that they
didn't have before.
Those are lifetime skills.
They will be able to performover and over again And get
sustainable results for theorganization.
Leaders have it wrong.
They just focus on what we needto get done.
Let's focus on the peopledevelopment, which is the work
you do and I love to do.
(20:13):
You're gonna get a much betterresult.
Kyla Cofer (20:17):
Yeah, awesome.
So what was the other thing?
yes, so did you just say it?
Deb Coviello (20:20):
messaging.
I want to talk to you aboutmessaging.
So how often have you gone intoa conference room and say The
sky is falling, we need to buy anew piece of equipment because
if we don't do it we're gonnaget a lot of customer returns?
And people will be quiet orthey'll say can we take that
offline or it's not in thebudget.
(20:40):
And people that are so excitedthey know that if they fix this
particular problem with theprogram Purchase of a piece of
equipment, they are going tosolve the problem.
The problem is, as we train ourpeople you're in supply chain,
you're in HR We tell you how todo a pretty PowerPoint, dot the
I's, cross the T's anddisseminate information.
What we don't teach our up andcoming professionals.
(21:03):
It's not about the information.
It's about building trust,building a relationship and
messaging.
And messaging is very differentthan just disseminating
information, or didn't you seeit in my pie chart?
This pie chart showed it's thebiggest issue.
We have to spend money instead.
You could frame it up somethinglike that And I'll tell you the
(21:23):
framework here.
But it's really about groundingpeople in a bigger purpose.
We're all here to gain marketshare for our clients and the
problem right now is that we'reexperiencing a huge number of
returns because our internalequipment is not capable of
detecting failures And it'scausing customer complaints.
We potentially have saleserosion and if we don't do that,
(21:45):
we're going to see the marketshare dwindle, and that's what
we've been all trying to do isincrease it.
As you can see, if we spendthis amount of money, it will
get in us an ROI in about twomonths and I propose we move
forward so we can minimize therisk.
That's so different than justsaying look at my pie chart,
can't you see we need to buythis piece of equipment.
Kyla Cofer (22:05):
Well, you told a story with it you shared the
whole story with it and peoplegot to understand what was going
to actually happen here.
They got to feel involved inthe decision and they understood
it To your point.
Deb Coviello (22:15):
Yes, you're right.
By telling a story, you connectwith humanity.
You find some point ofconnection where they can
emotionally say, yeah, I've beenworking my tail off, we've been
trying to get more sales here,and then when you say, but did
you realize we're actuallyshooting ourselves in the foot.
If we don't take care of this,all that work you've been doing
is not going to get us we want.
A small investment now willmitigate any erosion to what
(22:39):
we're doing.
So it's storytelling, it'smessaging, it's getting at their
heartstrings.
And the data?
yes, it has to be accurate, butwe have to de-emphasize the
data and make sure we connectwith the people and message it
in the right way.
That was a leadership thingthat I had to change, not only
for myself to say I need moreequipment I, need more people.
(22:59):
Like the sky is burning, I'mnot going to be able to contain
this issue.
I need people because of this,and things will happen faster
than just here's my PowerPoint,and so those are things that I
was doing differently and Iwould.
I still now teach people had amessage versus disseminating
information.
It'll get a completelydifferent result in your
(23:20):
leadership journey.
Kyla Cofer (23:22):
Wow and and so really focusing in on giving
better feedback And getting moretangible feedback and changing
the way that you approach thestory and the message of what
you're trying to get across.
Took you from in your wholeindustry, from number four, in
your region, the entirecontinent of North America,
(23:45):
number two, which is kind of abig deal.
I think.
Deb Coviello (23:49):
Let me just clarify it was just the US, but
there was still eight.
I didn't have Canada or Mexico,but that was still a lot of
people, a lot of sales, a lot ofrisk and responsibility.
Kyla Cofer (24:02):
So still pretty big yeah, so you're working as a
drop in CEO.
I don't know if you mentionedthat earlier, but that's what
you're kind of doing, rightyou're?
you're jumping in as a CEO andhelping people transform their
organizations.
Deb Coviello (24:15):
Let me clarify that.
So in my journey, while I haveformed a company called
Illumination Partners, Irealized that if I wanted to
message and get my word out topeople I could help.
I had to create a brand.
That was something a little bitdifferent.
It is called The Drop In CEObecause that was how I dropped
(24:36):
into crises over and over againin my corporate career and then
I was drawn to CEO's, foundersand presidents that were going
through some kind of crisis andI remember in my past when
somebody had done that I was ina private equity company the CEO
would drop into the company Andhelp us with the business issue
, but at the same time theybuilt our confidence and left a
(24:58):
lasting impact.
And then they left, and thenthey brought in another CEO, and
that is my way of operating.
I basically become the CEOwhisperer.
I will drop into somebody whois having a challenge or they
need to go through a change, anew customer, new requirements.
Maybe they lost a leader.
I need to become one with theCEO and do what they need to do
(25:21):
assess the landscape, decidewhat treatment is needed, and
I'll do the technical work.
I'm not just a consultant sayyou need to do this.
I will do this partner with theCEO and do the work with the
people.
But while I'm in there part ofmy brand what I do is I will
also look at the capability ofthe people and their confidence.
And in the new state that webring the company through, we
(25:43):
get a certification, we'reincreasing volume.
Do they have the capability Andleadership skills to be able to
support that change?
Kyla Cofer (25:52):
Just to summarize you were saying that now you're
going in and you're helping andyou're doing all the parts is
with like a CEO.
So you're going to go in and dothe actual work as the CEO, but
you're also working in thepeople aspect of it.
Will tell me what that is.
What does that mean?
what's the people aspect of it?
Deb Coviello (26:07):
Okay.
So I'm so glad you asked meabout this, but here's the
interesting thing I had aparticular client that I'm
working with right now and wewere starting to lose clients,
and so I did do some crisismanagement.
We met with their clients,understood what the issues were,
brought that feedback into ourprocess and fixed those things
and gave them at least peace ofmind that we were going to fix
(26:27):
things.
And then follow-up meetings sowe could stop the erosion of
potential loss of clients.
And along the way, i said tothe CEO.
I said, okay, after we fix thiscrisis here, i said there's
people in there that are notcross-trained.
The reason why we're havingthese issues is they miss
details.
Their onboarding was not ascomplete as it could be So
immediately we went into then.
(26:49):
Well, what are their jobdescriptions?
What is their training looklike?
And we soon found a lot of gapsin that area.
So we are now, even now, goingthrough getting clear standards.
What do we expect of them, andnot even just technically are
they trained.
But I added the additionalelement of what are those
essential skills, and I use aLominger model which has about
(27:09):
50 or so different types ofessential skills that we
identify for each position,whether it's communication, time
management, navigatingdifficult situations.
We incorporate that into theirjob description and we are
trying to close those gaps.
Every single time I'm broughtinto a situation, the leader
will say can you help me with myleadership development?
(27:30):
And so I do that gladly,because that's what's going to
sustain the work we're doing.
Kyla Cofer (27:35):
Wow.
So I'm just thinking throughwhat you said And I think that
it's so valuable that you'refocusing on both things.
It's the actual doing the work,but also how can we grow and
develop ourselves in that?
And I love that idea of makingsure that we're all
cross-trained, that we allunderstand the work that we're
doing and how my work affectssomebody else and how we can
(27:57):
work together in that.
Deb Coviello (27:59):
And I find that's a big miss And that is also the
reason why I wrote the CEO'sCompass Your Guide.
To Get Back on Track, becauseleaders, as you're moving up,
might find a recipe for success.
I go into a situation I getpeople organized, we do change
management and they'resuccessful.
But as they're moving up intheir career to higher levels of
leadership responsibility,sometimes they're faced with a
(28:21):
situation and the old playbookdoesn't work And what I have
found is it's not like oh, I gotto get more technical people, I
need the latest platform tomake me more efficient.
People focus on the wrongthings.
As a leader, it is all about thepeople development first,
because it's humans that run theworld.
Don't put a new system on topof a bad culture or people that
(28:42):
can't perform or are working insilos.
I look for how can I improvethe confidence, the capability,
the capacity of the people to dothe work and then give them the
additional tools, et cetera, ontop.
So I often will coachindividuals.
I will look at team dynamics onhow they're interacting with
each other, because that couldbe another issue.
And if people don't know how tointeract, communicate,
(29:04):
collaborate with people, theworst thing that happens is your
customers are going to feelthat dysfunction.
So again, what I do will fixthe people issues, solve the
technical issues, But again, apeople focused first is really
my leadership style, in additionto helping that CEO.
Kyla Cofer (29:22):
Well, we've already proven over and over through our
podcast, leadership school,that people first is a very
effective way to go aboutleading an organization is
focusing it on the people.
But what I thought was reallyinteresting about what you said
just now was that you said thatyou can't run a new play from an
old playbook.
And, thinking through that, howmany times do we show up trying
(29:43):
to do things the way we'vealways done it?
And it could be reallydifficult teaching an old dog
new tricks, right?
So, coming in and you've workedyour way up this ladder, you're
a leader in whatever roleyou're in because of how well
you did in the past.
But this new situation isdifferent And it can be really
tricky to start.
You're like, oh, all of asudden, the rules have changed,
(30:03):
right, so you have to learn newrules and reframe your
perspective to do something alittle bit different, and that
takes a lot of self-awareness tobe able to do.
Deb Coviello (30:13):
It's called don't react, pause and reflect.
I'm about to blow my top.
I under people acting the way Iwant to.
Let me have a moment.
And that's also self-disciplineas a leader not to react.
But if you are not getting thedesired results, you are upset
about the outcome.
You need to pause and reflect,and I had to remind myself all
day today all about that.
(30:34):
But it's one of those thingslike what if you did well in a
great culture?
then you get a new job atanother company, you apply the
playbook and people aren'tbehaving the way we want them to
.
And so then we say, oh, this isa terrible culture, when we
need to take personalaccountability Again.
That's another leadership skill.
What is different about thisculture?
What is different about thepeople's behavior?
(30:56):
It is on us, as leaders, to becurious and say help me to
understand your past, tell meabout what you've done for this
organization, help me tounderstand why Is it a little
bit more challenging to getinitiatives through?
Is there something I've missedalong the way?
And so, rather than being upsetabout behavior because they're
not needing your old standardthat's a victim mentality One
(31:17):
needs to say okay, wait a second, i need to figure this out and
take the time to get to know thenew people before you even
start driving your ideas.
And then you've got data andyou've got context.
I'm going to have to do alittle bit more change
management with a lot morestakeholders if I want to be
able to move something forward.
So with that again, playbookschange.
(31:41):
You need to be very agile tofigure out what from your
playbook can you pull out.
Maybe you need to do a littlemore of or a little less of in
order to be successful.
Kyla Cofer (31:49):
My new favorite phrase is level up.
that I need to level up, AndI've also noticed that when
things feel kind of chaotic orthey feel really tricky or
things aren't going the way thatI anticipate they were, it's
really just kind of my smallworld telling me that it's time
for me to level up that in doingthis hard work and going
(32:10):
through like paying attention,doing the hiring the coach or
bringing somebody in, doing abig picture perspective and
breaking things down, whateverit is that you need to do but do
those things even thoughthey're hard, and the more you
push through them, the more youlevel up.
Deb Coviello (32:23):
And I'm going to share one little piece of advice
.
It's one that I have had toshare with myself.
Before you and I jumped on here, I said I was having a red
light kind of day.
Nothing was working And, ratherthan getting upset and yeah, I
had my pity party with myhusband and talked about it a
little bit the thing I know is,every single time I am
(32:44):
frustrated, sleep on it.
One day will make a difference.
The next day you'll be able totalk to your boss.
You'll be able to talk to thatperson that you perceived as
difficult.
You'll get new information thatprovides context for why were
you hitting a wall.
Be patient and disciplined andfind ways to diffuse that
negative energy, because Ipromise you, the next day will
(33:07):
reveal why you felt that way andthe solutions will come forward
.
Again, a hard leadership trickyou gotta learn.
Kyla Cofer (33:14):
Absolutely.
I mean, how many problems havebeen solved just by taking a
step back and allowing ourbrains and our minds and our
bodies to reset?
Or just taking just having amoment to play.
Go have fun, do something funand life giving for yourself.
That we get so caught up in ourwork, right, that we forget
that we can go play.
Still, we can go have fun, wecan go do fun things for
(33:36):
ourselves.
What do we really like?
enjoy doing that gives us life.
Then we come back to the workstuff and it all makes much more
sense after that.
Deb Coviello (33:45):
I mean it really does.
I was frustrated.
I had a colleague and I let myhair down and said I'm just
having a tough day, and then westarted going back and forth I
mean not unprofessionally andthen I started laughing and then
it was like everything's fine,everything's fine.
Kyla Cofer (33:58):
Yeah, oh, that's wonderful.
Deb, this has been such a goodconversation And I mean I have a
dozen more questions, but Ithink we'll go ahead and wrap up
, because I just feel likeyou've given us some really,
really good tools today and Ijust really appreciate your time
.
I'm curious.
I do have a couple of lastfinal questions for you.
The one is what would be one ofthe best pieces of advice that
you've ever received?
Deb Coviello (34:20):
Oh, there's so many here, but I got this from
my mother, who got it from someold person, but it was like make
you the world a bit more betterand beautiful before, cause you
were in it.
It's a bit about leaving yourlegacy.
Don't just do the work, butmake an impact and influence
people.
Kyla Cofer (34:36):
Thank you.
Is there anything else you wantto make sure our audience hears
from you today.
Anything, any last minutethoughts that you wanna add?
Deb Coviello (34:42):
Well, first of all , i just want to say thank you
for giving me the opportunity tohave this great conversation
with you and talk to youraudience.
But I will just say just amessage.
I mean, if you are looking forinspirational resources again,
Kyla is, you know, through herleadership school.
You stay there.
She's got great content.
But I too.
If you want an additionalresource, my website is the drop
(35:02):
in CEO and there I have blogposts I have.
I wrote about the red light day, the green light day.
All of these are leadershiptips and resources for you.
I also have a podcast as well.
But just know, don't do thisalone.
Leverage Kyla's resources, myresources.
Get a coach, get a mentor.
Leverage these resourcesbecause all you wanna do is make
(35:23):
an impact.
You wanna do purposeful workand develop your leadership
style, because then the impactthat you're gonna make not only
on the employers that you workwith, but the people around you.
They're gonna remember you forhow you made them feel and how
you led them through thedifferent challenges.
Don't do it alone.
Get some support, and I'msticking by that.
Kyla Cofer (35:44):
Brilliant advice from the great Deb Coviello.
Thank you so much, Deb.
Deb Coviello (35:48):
Thank you as well, And be well, thank you.
Kyla Cofer (35:51):
Hey, thank you so much for listening.
If you've liked what you heardand you want some more tools and
resources to help you on yourway, go check out kylacofer.
com/freestuff.
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