July 13, 2023 • 34 mins
Imagine rising through the ranks to become one of the youngest COOs at 24, negotiating a side hustle into a full-time gig, and all the while, maintaining a strong sense of authenticity. That's the journey of our guest, Victoria Pelletier. With over 20 years of leadership under her belt, Victoria is a master of navigating professional success and personal priorities, all while staying grounded and true to herself.
What does it look like to lead with empathy and compassion, to redefine success not just as a material gain but also as joy, passion, and value? Victoria tackles these questions and more, taking us on a fascinating journey from her early ambitions to her current reality. A stand-out lesson is the importance of setting healthy boundaries and making time for what truly matters. Even in the face of adversity, Victoria reminds us that we can carve out meaning and joy.
So, let's get ready to redefine leadership and authenticity with Victoria Pelletier. It's more than just a chat; it's a catalyst for your personal and professional growth.
Victoria is a 20+ year Corporate Executive and Board Director. Nicknamed the “Turn Around Queen” by former colleagues and employers, Victoria inspires and empowers her team and clients to change mindsets and drive growth in business, leadership and culture.
As someone who does not subscribe to the status quo, she is always ready for new challenges becoming one of the youngest Chief Operating Officers at the age of 24, a president by 35 and a CEO by age 41.
Victoria was recognized as one of the 2023 Women of Influence by South Florida Business Journal, 2022 Top 30 Most Influential Business Leaders in Tech by CIOLook, 2022 Most Influential Entrepreneur of the Year by World Magazine, 2021’s Top 50 Business Leader in Technology by Insight Magazine and a Mentor of the Year by Women in Communications & Technology in 2020. HSBC bank awarded her the Diversity & Inclusion in Innovation award in 2019 and she was IBM’s #1 Global Social Seller ranked by LinkedIn in 2019 and 2020. Her story is included in the book, "Unstoppable."
As a prolific motivational and inspirational speaker, Victoria has delivered keynotes discussing the importance of personal branding and its impact on professional growth; being an empathetic leader in empowering employees; the power of DEI on corporate cultures and building a life of resilience.
Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please support us on Patreon.
For more leadership tools, check out the free workbooks at KylaCofer.com/freestuff.
Book Kyla to speak at your event here, or to connect further, reach out to Kyla on LinkedIn and Instagram.
All transcripts are created with Descript, an amazing transcript creation and editing tool. Check it out for yourself!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Victoria Pelletier (00:00):
I think you need to lean into the things
that make you uncomfortable.
Without doing that, I actuallythink the growth will not come,
and so for me, it started withsmall things.
Kyla Cofer (00:16):
Welcome to the Leadership School Podcast.
I'm your host leadership andself-care coach, kyla Kofor.
Here at the Leadership School,you'll hear leaders from around
the world sharing their storiesand expertise on how to lead
with balance and integrity.
Our goal Teach you how to be anextraordinary leader.
Welcome back leaders.
(00:43):
Today I'm here to introduce youto Victoria Pelletier.
Victoria was one of theyoungest chief operating
officers, at the age of just 24.
And so over the last 20 plusyears, she has learned to lead
in a really remarkable way, andshe's learned to really lead
with empathy, with compassionand empowering the people who
(01:06):
work for her.
So we talk a lot about in ourconversation what it looks like
to be authentic, what it lookslike to be vulnerable, and how
that can have an impact on theculture that we create at work,
as well as the choices that wemake to design our own life.
So it's a really greatconversation for really thinking
(01:26):
through how am I showing up andam I showing up in the way that
I was designed to be and thelife that I really truly want
for myself, and doing that in away that also makes an impact
for the companies you work forand the companies that you lead.
So thanks so much for joiningme, Victoria, and thanks so much
for listening to the LeadershipSchool Podcast.
(01:48):
Victoria, it's really just anhonor and pleasure to meet you.
And it's so fun seeing you,like in Sunny Miami, and I love
like technology is so amazingthat I can interview people from
literally all over the worldand just hear your expertise and
learn from you, so I just feelreally fortunate.
Anyway, thank you for joiningme on Leadership School today.
Kick us off.
I'd love to hear your story.
Tell us your story.
What brought you here and justwhat leads you to Leadership
(02:09):
School.
Victoria Pelletier (02:10):
Well, so my story; well, first of all is
that I'm very open to pivot andchange and going where
opportunity, interest and joy itbrings me.
Quite frankly, the reality waswhen I was younger I thought I
was going to be most likelycorporate, potentially criminal
lawyer, and I jokingly say Ithink that's because my mom had
me watch too much LA Law withher back in like the 80s and
(02:32):
early 90s, and I fell in lovewith Corbin Bernsson, the actor.
But when I got to universityyou have to do an undergrad
first before going to law school.
I took psychology thinking itwould help me understand those
that I might be working with ina legal profession.
But I worked for a bank while Iwas in university and very
flexible environment in theircontact center And I got
promoted through the ranksincredibly quickly into
(02:55):
leadership roles, into like asenior management type role by
the time I was ready to go tolaw school.
And so what I thought was goingto be one year off before I
went to law school, because Iwas enjoying the work as a
leader in banking operationsenvironment, became the rest of
my career.
I never went to law school.
Kyla Cofer (03:13):
So, totally.
Victoria Pelletier (03:13):
I like feel like I read way more contracts
now than I might have evenpotentially there, and then I
pivoted and changed since then.
So I mean that was one pivotinitially There, tangentially,
if people looked at my LinkedInprofile you might go, I'm just
trying to see how I put thistogether.
It's all been since I gotrecruited out of banking to
become chief operating officerfor an outsourcing organization
(03:35):
when I was very young, 24 yearsold and a new mom at the time as
well, and everything since thenhas been B to B to C or E in a
C suite or an executive capacityproviding consulting,
technology or outsourcingservices to other clients and
their customers or employees.
Kyla Cofer (03:54):
Okay, so tell me a little bit about some of those
roles.
So, chief operating officer,have you stayed as chief
operating officer or you kind ofshifted that role?
Victoria Pelletier (04:03):
I've stayed some points.
I mean that was 20 somethingyears ago Actually I can say 23
years ago, because my oldest sonis 23 now.
So I know exactly, and I don'tknow about you, but I tend to
like think back on dates bymilestones of my children's,
your ages.
And so from there I went, yes,from COO of one outsourcing
company to another where I wasthe executive vice president.
(04:27):
essentially, I've always stayedin at an executive level, where
it's whether it's COO or it'ssome kind of VP VP title.
I've been a CEO as well, andtypically running market units
or business units forpredominantly now Fortune 100 or
even 500 companies.
Kyla Cofer (04:47):
Okay, awesome, and then you also do some speaking
as well.
So tell me about what you'respeaking and what you're
speaking about.
Victoria Pelletier (04:54):
Yeah, that's been my side hustle.
In fact, I even negotiated itdirectly into my employment
agreement with my last employer.
I started speaking, probablyabout 20 years ago, for almost
exclusively just for business,at conferences or events where
my employer was sponsoring anevent or we wanted to get in
front of an audience, so I wouldspeak about whatever it is the
(05:16):
industry or functional areaexclusively And then, about 10
years ago, I started to speak alittle bit more personally and
the intersection, however, of mypersonal or lived experience
and the things that matter mostto me with leadership, culture
and business as well.
And some of that comes as aresult of the fact that I
(05:39):
started coaching and mentoringmore and more people in business
And a lot of them are actuallywomen and being a part of
leading the women's business oremployee resource groups and
also the LGBT pride groups aswell, and I felt I was doing a
disservice at some point whenpeople wanted to understand my
career path, why I've so driven,how I've gotten here And I
realized I couldn't coach themeffectively, particularly when
(06:02):
it comes to talking aboutadversity and challenge or
trauma, if I didn't share my ownstory.
And so that's where the morepersonal, and then subsequently
professional element of myspeaking came in, which is about
10 years ago, and so I nowspeak on still lots of things to
do with what I do from a workperspective being an executive.
I talk about career path, whatdo I can attribute my career
(06:24):
success to.
But then other things that meana lot to me, from whether it's
passion, purpose, values such ashuman centered leadership.
Culture for me, I believe, isthe outcome of policies,
procedures, actions, language,behavior of those within the
business, DE and I, diversity,equity, inclusion to personal
branding and networking andauthenticity, and those pieces
(06:45):
are some of the things I talkabout most frequently.
Kyla Cofer (06:47):
That's a lot of different areas, so let's try
and break some of these down.
But first you mentioned there'sseveral things you mentioned I
want to bring up.
The first thing you mentionedwas your success and what being
driven to success.
I would love to hear from you.
You've had these high levelexecutive roles so much that you
speak about it and you trainother people on them.
So when talk to other peopleabout this, but tell me about
(07:08):
success for you, like, what doesthe word success mean?
Victoria Pelletier (07:12):
It's evolved and changed for me.
I think part of my why andwhere some of my drive comes is
my younger years of livedexperience.
I'm born to a drug addictedteenage mother who was really
abusive to me.
I was adopted several yearslater out of that environment
and so into a loving home withparents who were lower on the
socioeconomic chain, and soremember my mom's saying and my
(07:34):
mom was the woman that raised meSo my mom said to me, probably
when I was 11 or 12, she's like,Tori, you need to do better
than us.
I'm quite confident she justmeant vocation, both from an
education standpoint but alsovocationally.
My dad was a janitor, my mom asecretary, so for me success was
in part defined by money.
My parents had no money for usto go on vacations.
(07:55):
I didn't get to go on my senioryear like grad trip.
There wasn't a lot of money.
So I started working at age 11because, although I never needed
, there was no food insecurity,there was always clothes in my
closet.
That was it.
If there was anything extra Iwanted, I needed to provide for
it.
and so initially success wasabout having more from a
(08:17):
material standpoint, and a lotof that financial gain came
through more and more seniorroles, and so that's how I
defined it.
And then it shifted for me as aresult of my ex-wife.
I was married to a womanprior to being married to my
husband; had cancer twice, thefirst time when I was pregnant
with my seven weeks pregnant.
We found out with my youngerchild And although we separated,
(08:39):
she passed away a couple yearsafter we got divorced from her
second bout of cancer.
And actually when we gotdivorced we found out her cancer
came back.
So I left her everything andrestarted over financially for
myself at age 33.
But also her health and she wasonly 49 years old when she
passed away made me just kind ofquestion like what's really
important here?
That accumulated a lot.
(09:00):
I define my success based uponfinancial status and material
status And I quickly realizedthat wasn't important because I
saw how much health and familywas impacted.
But also I shifted to beingreally focused on things that
bring me personal andprofessional joy or value, and
so that is much more so now howI define success in terms of
(09:24):
what I do and who I do it forand how I engage, both from a
corporate perspective and allthe other interests that I have
outside of that.
Kyla Cofer (09:32):
So first of all, thank you for sharing your story
.
That's hard to share, I'm sure,at times, and I just really
appreciate you honoring us withyour story.
You've been through a lot Andit's really interesting to see
how success the definition ofthat has changed for you
depending on the season of lifethat you've been in and how we
grow and shift and change.
Just as we grow older.
Different things matter atdifferent times.
(09:53):
They really do.
But I'm curious when you are ina CEO role or an executive role
and you're approaching thatwith this, the joy, passion,
priorities matter to me, butyou're leading a company where
usually things like money andpower and lots of clients and
(10:14):
sales and things matter.
So tell me what that looks liketo incorporate both of those
things.
Victoria Pelletier (10:20):
Well and it's funny I spend a lot of time
talking to and I've beenworking sort of with CEO and
boards on transformation intheir businesses in terms of the
practices or the businessesI've been working for, And so
coaching them on the fact thatsuccess is measured exactly in
the way that you're talkingabout, particularly for
shareholders.
So we want to see growth inrevenue and profitability, but
(10:41):
there doesn't have to be atrade-off in hiring the right
and developing the right kind ofleaders in our organization and
building the right kind ofculture.
Or, because I'm also superpassionate and advocate around
DE&I, around doing the rightthing to create a diverse and
inclusive culture doesn't meanthat financial performance and
(11:02):
success metrics get traded off.
The reality is there'ssignificant business benefits to
doing those things and thenconnecting it all with purpose.
So it can be selling whateverwidget it is, but find people
who align with the what you'reselling Like.
I'm extremely like health andwellness conscious.
You're not going to find meworking for like a cigarette
manufacturer, but for othersthat might make sense.
(11:24):
So success, if from a businesscontext, is the ways in which
our shareholders andstakeholders measure us.
But I think with all of theseother like multifaceted metrics
we need to be looking at aroundthe purpose and passion, the
employee engagement, ourdiversity metrics.
Are we doing good for ourcommunities, that we're working
(11:46):
in the environment and much morebroadly from it?
You look at the UN's, like ESG,all the different pieces and
components of that.
Kyla Cofer (11:54):
Well, because the reality is we can be happy and
passionate and have purposeabout things, but if we can't
pay our bills, that purpose andpassion gets a lot harder to
find Yeah, absolutely, and it'sokay.
Victoria Pelletier (12:05):
By the way, I also tell a lot of people this
you don't enjoy the roles thatthey're in that, yes, we need to
put food on the table, and soyou have to make compromise at
some point and it can be achoice.
I am staying here now, eventhough I'm not receiving great
joy or my values aren't totallyaligned, but I have to do it to
support my family And I'm goingto be committed to making a
(12:28):
change for our future, andthere's nothing wrong with that.
Kyla Cofer (12:32):
No, there's not.
There's really not.
And I think sometimes we mayjudge ourselves a little harshly
or judge other people a littleharshly for the choices that
they've made, but we can't dothat unless we know someone's
story and their reasoning and bewilling to support them in
their journey and theirdecisions.
I'm thinking the wordboundaries is not leaving my
head because it really is one ofmy favorite words, because I
(12:54):
talk about it a lot, andboundaries are a requirement for
personal well-being, forburnout prevention, for
achieving success, really.
But what does that look likefor you in the roles that you're
taking as a CEO or executivevice president, whatever that
role is for you?
How are you maintaining yourboundaries for your own personal
well-being while also trying toreally push a company ahead and
(13:16):
help them succeed?
And I think that it's really Ireally appreciate that you're
talking about how, when acompany does, let's say, the
right thing, like when a companyis operating with integrity,
with moral standards, withlooking for equality, that in
supporting others, you really dohelp yourself grow.
And we're not doing it to beselfish, we're not doing it to
(13:36):
be like I'm going to have mywhole company is going to be
full of all these DEI measuresand I'm going.
It's going to be like thisperfect company at the people
first leadership and all thisstuff, and I'm not doing that to
say, well, by doing that I'mgoing to make millions and
billions of dollars, but I thinkthat's the great byproduct of
doing it right, is that you getboth of those things.
So there were two parts to that.
Let me clarify.
(13:57):
I really wanted to hear aboutthe boundaries, but then let's
move into after that, talkingabout yeah, really, what does
that look like to really to leada company and make those
changes, to create the culturein the right ways for the right
reasons?
Victoria Pelletier (14:10):
Boundaries is also a word I love and I talk
a lot about how it's one of thethings I attribute my I'll say
life success because the realityis I don't like people to say
how do you do it all as a wife,a mother, an executive?
I sit on boards having the sidehustle, et cetera.
For me it's all just life, andso figuring out how to integrate
(14:32):
it and this notion that you canhave it all not always at the
same time or not withoutcompromise, and so for me,
boundaries is meant a number ofthings.
One, not to the confines,totally like no one's ever going
to tell me how far and wide Ican or cannot go.
So one, it's like opening upthe boundaries and the
(14:52):
possibilities.
So that's one.
And then two is learning to doone of three things.
with things that do not bring uspersonal, including our family,
or professional joy or value.
I either say no, I delegate orI outsource.
You know, one of my funniestand favorite stories on this is
when I met my husband.
(15:13):
He moved in and I had had likenannies a nanny in the home and
my children were younger, whocooked and clean and did laundry
and all of that, and I justshifted actually to like I
didn't need them.
when my husband met, mychildren were a little bit older
.
So I was moving away from ananny.
But, to you know, havingsomeone who did help with a
number of things around thehouse.
And he walked in, he's like, oh, I'm not sure I'm comfortable
(15:34):
with someone doing our laundry.
And I was like, well, babe,let's be clear, like doing
laundry brings me no joy.
So I said you can either getreally comfortable with letting
our cleaners do the laundry oryou can do it.
And we're about to celebrate 10years together And he's still,
to this day, does our laundry.
So I mean, that's one on apersonal level, but then also
professionally, it's creatingtime and capacity for me.
(15:56):
I'm a fitness fanatic, so Iwork out early in the morning,
so my calendar is blocked before9am because I didn't want
someone booking me at eight.
I look like a wet dog is myhair is still wet.
So it's choices like that.
That's how, for me, I've beenable to create some boundaries.
And then, as a leaderinstilling that in my team, long
before COVID, I had this sayingyou know that there are no
schedules, there are justdeliverables, and you did not
(16:18):
need to ask me for permission towork remotely, and so I've
always had that philosophy.
Kyla Cofer (16:24):
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(16:49):
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(17:10):
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(17:30):
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I really love this, by the way.
It's so important to me to havegood boundaries, because you
get to make choices to designthe life that you want.
We really do.
Even when a lot of our choiceshave been taken away, I've found
that I've been able to do a lotof things.
I've mentioned Victor Frankel onthis podcast before.
(17:52):
Have you heard of VictorFrankel?
It's familiar.
Victor Frankel was in Naziconcentration camps.
He survived years and years inthe camps.
He's a psychologist and he'swritten a lot of books.
His books talk about theology,psychology, the practice of
meaning and how we are the oneswho get to create meaning in our
(18:13):
lives, no matter our situation.
He noticed that people who wereable to approach their
situation that way thrived.
Not thrived in a concentrationcamp as much as you would like
to thrive as a human, but stillin general in our lives.
We tend to thrive when we areable to make those decisions
about what does our life looklike and what does the meaning
(18:36):
of our life look like.
It really matters.
That's what you're talking aboutin setting those boundaries,
even down to the doing thelaundry that matters to you.
I'm not going to be doing that.
I'm going to make sure that I'mmaking enough money that I can
pay somebody to do my laundryfor me, I'm going to enter some
side hustles.
I'm going to do whatever ittakes to do that or find someone
who's willing to do it and livewith me full time.
We do that and we have to sayno to those things.
(18:58):
That's a priority.
But really allowing that toapply also to the people who
work for you because it's onething to say what you're going
to do for yourself, but thensometimes we expect different of
other people.
To apply that to both ways isreally really important.
But I'm curious how do youencourage and measure
(19:23):
deliverables by also allowingpeople to have that schedule and
that flexibility?
Because I know it's possible,I've seen it be possible, but I
think let's spell it out.
I think it's important becauseI think that's a question that a
lot of us ask is, yeah, butpeople aren't getting the jobs
done or we're not meeting ourgoals.
How do you do both of thosethings?
Victoria Pelletier (19:42):
It's complex .
I would suggest that this iseasy by any stretch.
First, i will say I have had totell my employees do as I say,
not as I do.
So I will tell you my choice isto work.
I very often work 60 plus hoursa week, my choice.
And again, I do a lot ofdifferent things, so that's my
(20:04):
choice.
Also, when I go on vacation, Icheck my email.
I do not want to come home to athousand emails in my inbox.
I would rather quickly scanquick one-liner response, file,
or delete.
That's my choice.
I don't expect that of myemployees.
So I'm really clear with themas I say this.
It's a do as I say, and again,that's my choice and I respect
(20:24):
their choice.
If they want to put their phonein the hotel safe, amazing,
have at it.
So that's one.
But then two around how do wemeasure deliverables?
I think, going back to how issuccess measured in an
organization, it's verydifferent by the different types
of roles you're in.
If you're in a production typeenvironment or if you're in a
contact center, it's very easyto measure that.
(20:45):
You're producing X number ofproducts or widgets in the
manufacturing environment.
If you're in a contact centerenvironment, it's how many calls
are you taking, the length ofcalls?
but, really importantly, arethe customer satisfied with the
kind of service that you'redelivering?
Are you showing up on time orare you adhering to your
schedule?
There's easy ways to be reallyclear around how success is
(21:06):
measured.
And then deliverables.
Where it gets in that gray zoneis when you're not in the two
types of roles I talked about,where maybe you're in a client
management type of environmentand so you've got response times
to clients.
Y ou've got to show up tomeetings.
You have to be creating valuefor the business and for our
clients at the same time.
But sit down and reallyarticulate that and that this is
(21:29):
how we're going to definedeliverables and success in this
role.
Where people aren't meetingthose, I think it's a result of
potentially job fit.
And so as a leader, you need tobe really tuned into that and
having conversations,under-skinned skills,
under-skining the desires andobjectives of the employees as
(21:49):
well and matching that.
But at some times it's theopposite.
The employee needs to manage myexpectations.
So I might say this is thedeliverable.
I want you to meet thiscommitment to our clients, to
your colleagues or to myself,but manage my expectations.
If what I've said and it turnsout it's going to take much
longer than the 40-hour workweek, then you need to tell me
(22:11):
that.
And we're going to reset thoseexpectations to the extent that
we can.
Now, I've been in a B2Benvironment most of my career
and clients dictate a lot oftimes, and so sometimes we're
struggling.
I'll acknowledge that.
But it's about having thosevery open dialogues.
Kyla Cofer (22:27):
Yeah, so do you when you're interacting and having
that open communication.
Tell us on day one when you'vehired somebody, how are you
encouraging them to have thatopen communication with you and
be able to feel safe enough tocome tell you Hey, my boss
expects us to be done in 20hours, but it's gonna take me 60
and I'm terrified to tell her.
You know, like ha, tell me, howare you creating and building
(22:49):
that culture where people canhave a good discussion about
what expectations really are?
Victoria Pelletier (22:55):
So, through the recruitment process, they
should already have a very goodsense.
Like I'm known for my radicalcandor.
So for your audience who mayhave read Kim Scott's book, I
was practicing this long beforeI probably had that vernacular
and that's being completelydirect and transparent, but from
a place of care and compassion,and so that's my style.
(23:15):
But I also want to beincredibly transparent around
what it looks like coming intothis role.
So I'm really clear in therecruitment process: this is
what the role entails, this ishow it's measured, here's the
environment.
I do try and lay out I wantpeople to come in eyes wide open
, to the extent that I can, or Ihave awareness of what that is,
so they know that coming in.
But that is also created trustin our relationship right off
(23:38):
the bat.
Like they understand, you knowthe way I operate and I also
commit to regular one-on-oneswith my team where I say, hey,
this is our committed calendar,we're going to make sure that we
have that conversation, and sofor me also, those are
Opportunities to haveconversations about performance
and expectations and not justwait until the annual
performance cycle.
(23:58):
So we're having thatconversation and I had to shift.
I wasn't always as eithervulnerable or Authentically
transparent and open, and earlyin my 20s, when I became an
executive, I felt like I neededto show up with this mask as a
(24:21):
young Female executive the onlyone, not no less, at the table.
So I was afraid to like, bevulnerable, show emotion and do
some of this.
I had to learn and pivot, quitefrankly, some of my leadership
style.
But now that I do, that, likethis, creates amazing employee
engagement and clarity aroundexpectations and Performance and
then growth and opportunity forthe employees.
Kyla Cofer (24:43):
It's really something when your leader can
be vulnerable and share theirown stories.
It makes well for me.
When I've been in thosepositions and following somebody
, I have felt safer and I havefelt like, okay, I can trust
this person.
So it really builds thiselement of trust that when you
can trust the people you'reworking with, you're willing to
go a lot further and work a lotharder.
Victoria Pelletier (25:02):
Yeah, exactly.
That's why, when we look at ameasure, success has to be
looking at employee engagement,retention, those pieces, because
that actually drives againgoing back to what's the right
thing to do versus actually howit drives Amazing business
outcomes around productivity andall these other metrics, and so
I think I wish more leadersrecognized that.
Kyla Cofer (25:23):
Yeah, tell me just briefly like I imagine sharing
and being open when you firststarted out was a little bit
scary.
Tell me how you push throughthat.
Victoria Pelletier (25:30):
I think you need to lean into the things
that make you uncomfortable.
Without doing that, I actuallythink the growth will not come,
and so for me, it started withsmall things.
Like I knew I needed to build abetter relationship and rapport
with my employees, so thatmeant I didn't walk into a
meeting and go straight into thebusiness agenda.
So I needed to be conscious.
(25:50):
I'm gonna take and talkyourself talk.
I'm gonna take the first fiveminutes walking in to talk about
what happened on the weekendand get to know a little bit
more.
So that was just like for thiseight type personality that I am
to like want to dive.
So it was from.
Kyla Cofer (26:03):
I must have driven you crazy those first five
minutes must have been aboutlike five hours.
Victoria Pelletier (26:06):
I'll talk used to not be like innate at
all.
Now I do it like I talked tostrangers from the elevator,
like I just it's who I am now.
But that wasn't me 20 somethingyears ago.
Even things like saying youknow what, I don't know what I
don't know, like, and being okayto say as a leader, like I
don't have all the answers.
You know we're here as a team.
We bring different skills andlife experience altogether to
the table, so let's solve ittogether.
(26:27):
I actually just think beingvulnerable and open and saying I
don't know, but we're gonnafigure this out and we're gonna
make a commitment to get itsolved, like that in itself
breeds trust.
So again, that goes back to you.
I wasn't comfortable in my 20sdoing that at all.
Kyla Cofer (26:40):
I wanted to pretend like I knew all the answers a
Lot of us do, because we wantpeople to see us.
You know, even past your 20s,even as an adult, we want people
to see us how we want them tosee us.
Like we want to create thatopinion of ourselves.
We like feel like we have somecontrol over that and we want
people to see us as competentand that we can hack it and now
(27:02):
we're capable and that theyhired us like they should be
proud that they hired us becausewe can get this job done.
But some of that, that pride,comes in the doing and in the
acknowledging I'm not sure, butthat's not the thing that draws
people in.
It's not the I'm not sure.
It's that I'm gonna figure itout and we're gonna work
together to solve this problemAnd I'm gonna lead you there to
(27:23):
find the solution.
Victoria Pelletier (27:24):
Yeah, and this sort of leads me to another
Important piece that I think iscritical to our success is
around a personal brand and andso sort of developing that, yes,
you can be known for whateveryour subject matter expertise
is, the eminence that you havein an industry or function.
But then there's this who areyou as a person?
And so that in itself breedstrust in others.
(27:46):
So if a deadline slips or youhave to say I don't know,
they're confident, and not onlybecause you're an expert in this
space, but because you're veryaligned to how you shown up and
you curated, authentically, thepersona or the personal brand
and what people know about you.
Kyla Cofer (28:02):
Absolutely and, let's be real, like the only
reason we ever make any progressis because we've said we didn't
know something and we've hadquestions about how to do
something.
Right, like that's how progresshappens, is I'm curious and I
think we want to go over here,don't know how to get there, but
we can.
I love stories of hearing aboutWalt Disney and when Disney
first started out and they'd belike we have this idea to do
something and they're like, well, that's never been done before.
Well then, let's do it.
(28:23):
Like we don't know how to makethings move, and they said, well
, we're gonna find a way.
And they did.
And they always just dream waybeyond what they ever thought
was capable.
Victoria Pelletier (28:32):
Yeah, exactly.
Kyla Cofer (28:34):
So, Victoria, you've kind of mentioned it several
times, but if you had one pieceof advice to give, what would
that be?
Victoria Pelletier (28:41):
One is hard.
Kyla Cofer (28:42):
I know right, it's so mean.
I'm so sorry Yeah.
Victoria Pelletier (28:45):
I'm like oh, what is that?
Authenticity is critical, and Isay that because then it
actually touches many otherpoints.
Authenticity and being true toyourself and what you want, your
desires, your passion, thethings that bring you joy, but
also authenticity and how youshow up to the world, as we've
just said, like that breedstrust and builds relationships
(29:06):
with others, and I think so manyof us are afraid to do that,
whether it's rejection, lack ofacceptance, not fitting in,
whatever it is, and so we don'teither follow authentically what
we want or show others who weare.
So that's the thing I wish I my40-something-year-old self now;
(29:27):
and I always talk about agebecause I really do think
there's a lot that's come in thelived experience I've had in
the years that I've had.
That makes me much moreconfident in that now.
So I'd go back and tell that20-year-old what I listen to
myself.
I don't know.
My kids often don't listen tome.
Now they're like yah yah mom.
Kyla Cofer (29:44):
A lot of times we don't have.
You know, we have to hearthings a lot before they really
soak in and before we understandthem, and we have to come to
our own journeys on our ownright.
How many times have you toldsomebody something like if we
only did it this way, and thenthree years later, they've been
like, well, if we had only didit this way.
You're like I told you thatthree years ago.
(30:05):
That's right.
We have to kind of figure itout for ourselves And that's
just part of the journey islearning these tools, hearing
the words, hearing other experts, people who've been there and
who've done that and who've beenthrough hard things, who've
made mistakes, and understandingthat we're all still in our own
journey, figuring things out,even into our old years, which
(30:30):
neither of us are there yet, butwe are getting there.
As we're growing, we figure itout.
Victoria, this has been reallynice And I just really
appreciate your vulnerability.
And I appreciate hearing howyou have taken that
vulnerability and use that totransform the cultures and
really drive forward change,because it's not just about that
(30:51):
bottom line, even though youare pushing that bottom line
further.
You've actually made adifference in the world culture
as a whole by prioritizingthings like diversity, inclusion
, equity, authenticity.
Is there anything else youwould want our leaders to hear
before we wrap up?
Victoria Pelletier (31:05):
I sign a lot of my social media posts with
two hashtags, and one isunstoppable and the other is no
excuses and very connected.
And so in the boundaries piecearound no one telling you how
far and why you could go, likethe audience to recognize, like
you're the CEO of brand you andnot only what you choose to do
and how you show up in the world.
(31:25):
But then the no excuses pieceis around the choices we make
and, as we said earlier, youmight need to make choices at
certain times for certainreasons, but they're yours.
But then the other thing isrecognizing that, like challenge
and adversity is inevitable andwe can choose how to respond.
It doesn't mean like I'm a crierI watch like Charmin
(31:47):
commercials on TV.
I'm sure I'm like no HumaneSociety with Sarah McLaughlin
singing will bring down thetears Right.
And when I say no excuses, itdoesn't mean we can't feel the
emotion in that moment.
But I then have a choice interms of how I'm going to move
forward with a challenge or theadversity.
So I'd leave your listenerswith that notion of unstoppable
(32:08):
and no excuses towards whatevertheir journey looks like for
themselves.
Kyla Cofer (32:13):
Yeah, and taking really ownership of your own
life that you get to be incharge.
That's awesome, Victoria.
Thank you so much.
I have so appreciated youjoining me today and sharing
your story, and just thank youfor being here on Leadership
School Podcast.
Victoria Pelletier (32:27):
Thanks for having me.
Kyla Cofer (32:31):
So I started this podcast because I wanted to
learn and grow in my leadershipjourney and I have been so
incredibly inspired by theguests and the conversations.
So once the interview ends, Iactually keep the conversation
going because I have found thatsometimes the richest part of
the conversation is when we feellike the interview is over and
we can just kind of have arelaxed, more casual
(32:53):
conversation.
Also, if you've noticed, ifyou've been following this
podcast for some time, I used toask every guest two questions
What does integrity mean to themand what does balance look like
to them?
Well, I haven't stopped askingthose questions.
We're just putting those overon our Patreon page.
So go check it out atpatreoncom slash leadership
school And for $6.50 a month youcan support this podcast.
(33:18):
It takes a lot to produce everysingle episode and, honestly, I
can use a little bit of support.
So anything that you're able tocontribute would really mean a
lot to me and would be able tohelp me to continue to bring
these high caliber guests in tohave conversations on what does
it look like to be anextraordinary lead And how do we
practically do that?
So those conversations arecontinuing over at patreon.
(33:41):
com slash leadership schoolwhere I'm asking guests some
extra questions, some bonusquestions.
You'll get some bonus contentover there, so be sure to go
check it out.
Thanks so much for your supportand thanks so much for
subscribing, listening andsharing this podcast.
It really does mean a lot andI'm so honored to show up here
in your podcast feed.
Hey, thank you so much forlistening.
(34:05):
If you like what you heard andyou want some more tools and
resources to help you on yourjourney, go check out kylacofer.
com/ free stuff.
I think you need to lean into the things
that make you uncomfortable.
Without doing that, I actuallythink the growth will not come,
and so for me, it started withsmall things.
Kyla Cofer (00:16):
Welcome to the Leadership School Podcast.
I'm your host leadership andself-care coach, kyla Kofor.
Here at the Leadership School,you'll hear leaders from around
the world sharing their storiesand expertise on how to lead
with balance and integrity.
Our goal Teach you how to be anextraordinary leader.
Welcome back leaders.
(00:43):
Today I'm here to introduce youto Victoria Pelletier.
Victoria was one of theyoungest chief operating
officers, at the age of just 24.
And so over the last 20 plusyears, she has learned to lead
in a really remarkable way, andshe's learned to really lead
with empathy, with compassionand empowering the people who
(01:06):
work for her.
So we talk a lot about in ourconversation what it looks like
to be authentic, what it lookslike to be vulnerable, and how
that can have an impact on theculture that we create at work,
as well as the choices that wemake to design our own life.
So it's a really greatconversation for really thinking
(01:26):
through how am I showing up andam I showing up in the way that
I was designed to be and thelife that I really truly want
for myself, and doing that in away that also makes an impact
for the companies you work forand the companies that you lead.
So thanks so much for joiningme, Victoria, and thanks so much
for listening to the LeadershipSchool Podcast.
(01:48):
Victoria, it's really just anhonor and pleasure to meet you.
And it's so fun seeing you,like in Sunny Miami, and I love
like technology is so amazingthat I can interview people from
literally all over the worldand just hear your expertise and
learn from you, so I just feelreally fortunate.
Anyway, thank you for joiningme on Leadership School today.
Kick us off.
I'd love to hear your story.
Tell us your story.
What brought you here and justwhat leads you to Leadership
(02:09):
School.
Victoria Pelletier (02:10):
Well, so my story; well, first of all is
that I'm very open to pivot andchange and going where
opportunity, interest and joy itbrings me.
Quite frankly, the reality waswhen I was younger I thought I
was going to be most likelycorporate, potentially criminal
lawyer, and I jokingly say Ithink that's because my mom had
me watch too much LA Law withher back in like the 80s and
(02:32):
early 90s, and I fell in lovewith Corbin Bernsson, the actor.
But when I got to universityyou have to do an undergrad
first before going to law school.
I took psychology thinking itwould help me understand those
that I might be working with ina legal profession.
But I worked for a bank while Iwas in university and very
flexible environment in theircontact center And I got
promoted through the ranksincredibly quickly into
(02:55):
leadership roles, into like asenior management type role by
the time I was ready to go tolaw school.
And so what I thought was goingto be one year off before I
went to law school, because Iwas enjoying the work as a
leader in banking operationsenvironment, became the rest of
my career.
I never went to law school.
Kyla Cofer (03:13):
So, totally.
Victoria Pelletier (03:13):
I like feel like I read way more contracts
now than I might have evenpotentially there, and then I
pivoted and changed since then.
So I mean that was one pivotinitially There, tangentially,
if people looked at my LinkedInprofile you might go, I'm just
trying to see how I put thistogether.
It's all been since I gotrecruited out of banking to
become chief operating officerfor an outsourcing organization
(03:35):
when I was very young, 24 yearsold and a new mom at the time as
well, and everything since thenhas been B to B to C or E in a
C suite or an executive capacityproviding consulting,
technology or outsourcingservices to other clients and
their customers or employees.
Kyla Cofer (03:54):
Okay, so tell me a little bit about some of those
roles.
So, chief operating officer,have you stayed as chief
operating officer or you kind ofshifted that role?
Victoria Pelletier (04:03):
I've stayed some points.
I mean that was 20 somethingyears ago Actually I can say 23
years ago, because my oldest sonis 23 now.
So I know exactly, and I don'tknow about you, but I tend to
like think back on dates bymilestones of my children's,
your ages.
And so from there I went, yes,from COO of one outsourcing
company to another where I wasthe executive vice president.
(04:27):
essentially, I've always stayedin at an executive level, where
it's whether it's COO or it'ssome kind of VP VP title.
I've been a CEO as well, andtypically running market units
or business units forpredominantly now Fortune 100 or
even 500 companies.
Kyla Cofer (04:47):
Okay, awesome, and then you also do some speaking
as well.
So tell me about what you'respeaking and what you're
speaking about.
Victoria Pelletier (04:54):
Yeah, that's been my side hustle.
In fact, I even negotiated itdirectly into my employment
agreement with my last employer.
I started speaking, probablyabout 20 years ago, for almost
exclusively just for business,at conferences or events where
my employer was sponsoring anevent or we wanted to get in
front of an audience, so I wouldspeak about whatever it is the
(05:16):
industry or functional areaexclusively And then, about 10
years ago, I started to speak alittle bit more personally and
the intersection, however, of mypersonal or lived experience
and the things that matter mostto me with leadership, culture
and business as well.
And some of that comes as aresult of the fact that I
(05:39):
started coaching and mentoringmore and more people in business
And a lot of them are actuallywomen and being a part of
leading the women's business oremployee resource groups and
also the LGBT pride groups aswell, and I felt I was doing a
disservice at some point whenpeople wanted to understand my
career path, why I've so driven,how I've gotten here And I
realized I couldn't coach themeffectively, particularly when
(06:02):
it comes to talking aboutadversity and challenge or
trauma, if I didn't share my ownstory.
And so that's where the morepersonal, and then subsequently
professional element of myspeaking came in, which is about
10 years ago, and so I nowspeak on still lots of things to
do with what I do from a workperspective being an executive.
I talk about career path, whatdo I can attribute my career
(06:24):
success to.
But then other things that meana lot to me, from whether it's
passion, purpose, values such ashuman centered leadership.
Culture for me, I believe, isthe outcome of policies,
procedures, actions, language,behavior of those within the
business, DE and I, diversity,equity, inclusion to personal
branding and networking andauthenticity, and those pieces
(06:45):
are some of the things I talkabout most frequently.
Kyla Cofer (06:47):
That's a lot of different areas, so let's try
and break some of these down.
But first you mentioned there'sseveral things you mentioned I
want to bring up.
The first thing you mentionedwas your success and what being
driven to success.
I would love to hear from you.
You've had these high levelexecutive roles so much that you
speak about it and you trainother people on them.
So when talk to other peopleabout this, but tell me about
(07:08):
success for you, like, what doesthe word success mean?
Victoria Pelletier (07:12):
It's evolved and changed for me.
I think part of my why andwhere some of my drive comes is
my younger years of livedexperience.
I'm born to a drug addictedteenage mother who was really
abusive to me.
I was adopted several yearslater out of that environment
and so into a loving home withparents who were lower on the
socioeconomic chain, and soremember my mom's saying and my
(07:34):
mom was the woman that raised meSo my mom said to me, probably
when I was 11 or 12, she's like,Tori, you need to do better
than us.
I'm quite confident she justmeant vocation, both from an
education standpoint but alsovocationally.
My dad was a janitor, my mom asecretary, so for me success was
in part defined by money.
My parents had no money for usto go on vacations.
(07:55):
I didn't get to go on my senioryear like grad trip.
There wasn't a lot of money.
So I started working at age 11because, although I never needed
, there was no food insecurity,there was always clothes in my
closet.
That was it.
If there was anything extra Iwanted, I needed to provide for
it.
and so initially success wasabout having more from a
(08:17):
material standpoint, and a lotof that financial gain came
through more and more seniorroles, and so that's how I
defined it.
And then it shifted for me as aresult of my ex-wife.
I was married to a womanprior to being married to my
husband; had cancer twice, thefirst time when I was pregnant
with my seven weeks pregnant.
We found out with my youngerchild And although we separated,
(08:39):
she passed away a couple yearsafter we got divorced from her
second bout of cancer.
And actually when we gotdivorced we found out her cancer
came back.
So I left her everything andrestarted over financially for
myself at age 33.
But also her health and she wasonly 49 years old when she
passed away made me just kind ofquestion like what's really
important here?
That accumulated a lot.
(09:00):
I define my success based uponfinancial status and material
status And I quickly realizedthat wasn't important because I
saw how much health and familywas impacted.
But also I shifted to beingreally focused on things that
bring me personal andprofessional joy or value, and
so that is much more so now howI define success in terms of
(09:24):
what I do and who I do it forand how I engage, both from a
corporate perspective and allthe other interests that I have
outside of that.
Kyla Cofer (09:32):
So first of all, thank you for sharing your story
.
That's hard to share, I'm sure,at times, and I just really
appreciate you honoring us withyour story.
You've been through a lot Andit's really interesting to see
how success the definition ofthat has changed for you
depending on the season of lifethat you've been in and how we
grow and shift and change.
Just as we grow older.
Different things matter atdifferent times.
(09:53):
They really do.
But I'm curious when you are ina CEO role or an executive role
and you're approaching thatwith this, the joy, passion,
priorities matter to me, butyou're leading a company where
usually things like money andpower and lots of clients and
(10:14):
sales and things matter.
So tell me what that looks liketo incorporate both of those
things.
Victoria Pelletier (10:20):
Well and it's funny I spend a lot of time
talking to and I've beenworking sort of with CEO and
boards on transformation intheir businesses in terms of the
practices or the businessesI've been working for, And so
coaching them on the fact thatsuccess is measured exactly in
the way that you're talkingabout, particularly for
shareholders.
So we want to see growth inrevenue and profitability, but
(10:41):
there doesn't have to be atrade-off in hiring the right
and developing the right kind ofleaders in our organization and
building the right kind ofculture.
Or, because I'm also superpassionate and advocate around
DE&I, around doing the rightthing to create a diverse and
inclusive culture doesn't meanthat financial performance and
(11:02):
success metrics get traded off.
The reality is there'ssignificant business benefits to
doing those things and thenconnecting it all with purpose.
So it can be selling whateverwidget it is, but find people
who align with the what you'reselling Like.
I'm extremely like health andwellness conscious.
You're not going to find meworking for like a cigarette
manufacturer, but for othersthat might make sense.
(11:24):
So success, if from a businesscontext, is the ways in which
our shareholders andstakeholders measure us.
But I think with all of theseother like multifaceted metrics
we need to be looking at aroundthe purpose and passion, the
employee engagement, ourdiversity metrics.
Are we doing good for ourcommunities, that we're working
(11:46):
in the environment and much morebroadly from it?
You look at the UN's, like ESG,all the different pieces and
components of that.
Kyla Cofer (11:54):
Well, because the reality is we can be happy and
passionate and have purposeabout things, but if we can't
pay our bills, that purpose andpassion gets a lot harder to
find Yeah, absolutely, and it'sokay.
Victoria Pelletier (12:05):
By the way, I also tell a lot of people this
you don't enjoy the roles thatthey're in that, yes, we need to
put food on the table, and soyou have to make compromise at
some point and it can be achoice.
I am staying here now, eventhough I'm not receiving great
joy or my values aren't totallyaligned, but I have to do it to
support my family And I'm goingto be committed to making a
(12:28):
change for our future, andthere's nothing wrong with that.
Kyla Cofer (12:32):
No, there's not.
There's really not.
And I think sometimes we mayjudge ourselves a little harshly
or judge other people a littleharshly for the choices that
they've made, but we can't dothat unless we know someone's
story and their reasoning and bewilling to support them in
their journey and theirdecisions.
I'm thinking the wordboundaries is not leaving my
head because it really is one ofmy favorite words, because I
(12:54):
talk about it a lot, andboundaries are a requirement for
personal well-being, forburnout prevention, for
achieving success, really.
But what does that look likefor you in the roles that you're
taking as a CEO or executivevice president, whatever that
role is for you?
How are you maintaining yourboundaries for your own personal
well-being while also trying toreally push a company ahead and
(13:16):
help them succeed?
And I think that it's really Ireally appreciate that you're
talking about how, when acompany does, let's say, the
right thing, like when a companyis operating with integrity,
with moral standards, withlooking for equality, that in
supporting others, you really dohelp yourself grow.
And we're not doing it to beselfish, we're not doing it to
(13:36):
be like I'm going to have mywhole company is going to be
full of all these DEI measuresand I'm going.
It's going to be like thisperfect company at the people
first leadership and all thisstuff, and I'm not doing that to
say, well, by doing that I'mgoing to make millions and
billions of dollars, but I thinkthat's the great byproduct of
doing it right, is that you getboth of those things.
So there were two parts to that.
Let me clarify.
(13:57):
I really wanted to hear aboutthe boundaries, but then let's
move into after that, talkingabout yeah, really, what does
that look like to really to leada company and make those
changes, to create the culturein the right ways for the right
reasons?
Victoria Pelletier (14:10):
Boundaries is also a word I love and I talk
a lot about how it's one of thethings I attribute my I'll say
life success because the realityis I don't like people to say
how do you do it all as a wife,a mother, an executive?
I sit on boards having the sidehustle, et cetera.
For me it's all just life, andso figuring out how to integrate
(14:32):
it and this notion that you canhave it all not always at the
same time or not withoutcompromise, and so for me,
boundaries is meant a number ofthings.
One, not to the confines,totally like no one's ever going
to tell me how far and wide Ican or cannot go.
So one, it's like opening upthe boundaries and the
(14:52):
possibilities.
So that's one.
And then two is learning to doone of three things.
with things that do not bring uspersonal, including our family,
or professional joy or value.
I either say no, I delegate orI outsource.
You know, one of my funniestand favorite stories on this is
when I met my husband.
(15:13):
He moved in and I had had likenannies a nanny in the home and
my children were younger, whocooked and clean and did laundry
and all of that, and I justshifted actually to like I
didn't need them.
when my husband met, mychildren were a little bit older
.
So I was moving away from ananny.
But, to you know, havingsomeone who did help with a
number of things around thehouse.
And he walked in, he's like, oh, I'm not sure I'm comfortable
(15:34):
with someone doing our laundry.
And I was like, well, babe,let's be clear, like doing
laundry brings me no joy.
So I said you can either getreally comfortable with letting
our cleaners do the laundry oryou can do it.
And we're about to celebrate 10years together And he's still,
to this day, does our laundry.
So I mean, that's one on apersonal level, but then also
professionally, it's creatingtime and capacity for me.
(15:56):
I'm a fitness fanatic, so Iwork out early in the morning,
so my calendar is blocked before9am because I didn't want
someone booking me at eight.
I look like a wet dog is myhair is still wet.
So it's choices like that.
That's how, for me, I've beenable to create some boundaries.
And then, as a leaderinstilling that in my team, long
before COVID, I had this sayingyou know that there are no
schedules, there are justdeliverables, and you did not
(16:18):
need to ask me for permission towork remotely, and so I've
always had that philosophy.
Kyla Cofer (16:24):
Hey leaders, have you ever considered starting
your very own podcast?
Podcasting is a really amazingway.
I want to just say for myselfmy own experience in creating
this leadership school podcast.
I have grown my business, Ihave learned exponentially, I've
had a ton of fun and myconfidence level has increased
tenfold by continuing to show upand put on a really great show.
(16:49):
If I could help you to startyour very own podcast without
feeling overwhelmed, without theconfusion of what do I do or
how do I start, without dealingwith all the self-doubt, would
you take me up on the offer?
If so, what I want you to do is, right now, go to
podcasterschool.
net.
You can start out by taking thequiz on what kind of podcast
(17:10):
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From there Go ahead andschedule a call with me and
let's check.
I want to hear about what yourpotential ideas are and what
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get started on your very ownshow.
I really love this, by the way.
It's so important to me to havegood boundaries, because you
get to make choices to designthe life that you want.
We really do.
Even when a lot of our choiceshave been taken away, I've found
that I've been able to do a lotof things.
I've mentioned Victor Frankel onthis podcast before.
(17:52):
Have you heard of VictorFrankel?
It's familiar.
Victor Frankel was in Naziconcentration camps.
He survived years and years inthe camps.
He's a psychologist and he'swritten a lot of books.
His books talk about theology,psychology, the practice of
meaning and how we are the oneswho get to create meaning in our
(18:13):
lives, no matter our situation.
He noticed that people who wereable to approach their
situation that way thrived.
Not thrived in a concentrationcamp as much as you would like
to thrive as a human, but stillin general in our lives.
We tend to thrive when we areable to make those decisions
about what does our life looklike and what does the meaning
(18:36):
of our life look like.
It really matters.
That's what you're talking aboutin setting those boundaries,
even down to the doing thelaundry that matters to you.
I'm not going to be doing that.
I'm going to make sure that I'mmaking enough money that I can
pay somebody to do my laundryfor me, I'm going to enter some
side hustles.
I'm going to do whatever ittakes to do that or find someone
who's willing to do it and livewith me full time.
We do that and we have to sayno to those things.
(18:58):
That's a priority.
But really allowing that toapply also to the people who
work for you because it's onething to say what you're going
to do for yourself, but thensometimes we expect different of
other people.
To apply that to both ways isreally really important.
But I'm curious how do youencourage and measure
(19:23):
deliverables by also allowingpeople to have that schedule and
that flexibility?
Because I know it's possible,I've seen it be possible, but I
think let's spell it out.
I think it's important becauseI think that's a question that a
lot of us ask is, yeah, butpeople aren't getting the jobs
done or we're not meeting ourgoals.
How do you do both of thosethings?
Victoria Pelletier (19:42):
It's complex .
I would suggest that this iseasy by any stretch.
First, i will say I have had totell my employees do as I say,
not as I do.
So I will tell you my choice isto work.
I very often work 60 plus hoursa week, my choice.
And again, I do a lot ofdifferent things, so that's my
(20:04):
choice.
Also, when I go on vacation, Icheck my email.
I do not want to come home to athousand emails in my inbox.
I would rather quickly scanquick one-liner response, file,
or delete.
That's my choice.
I don't expect that of myemployees.
So I'm really clear with themas I say this.
It's a do as I say, and again,that's my choice and I respect
(20:24):
their choice.
If they want to put their phonein the hotel safe, amazing,
have at it.
So that's one.
But then two around how do wemeasure deliverables?
I think, going back to how issuccess measured in an
organization, it's verydifferent by the different types
of roles you're in.
If you're in a production typeenvironment or if you're in a
contact center, it's very easyto measure that.
(20:45):
You're producing X number ofproducts or widgets in the
manufacturing environment.
If you're in a contact centerenvironment, it's how many calls
are you taking, the length ofcalls?
but, really importantly, arethe customer satisfied with the
kind of service that you'redelivering?
Are you showing up on time orare you adhering to your
schedule?
There's easy ways to be reallyclear around how success is
(21:06):
measured.
And then deliverables.
Where it gets in that gray zoneis when you're not in the two
types of roles I talked about,where maybe you're in a client
management type of environmentand so you've got response times
to clients.
Y ou've got to show up tomeetings.
You have to be creating valuefor the business and for our
clients at the same time.
But sit down and reallyarticulate that and that this is
(21:29):
how we're going to definedeliverables and success in this
role.
Where people aren't meetingthose, I think it's a result of
potentially job fit.
And so as a leader, you need tobe really tuned into that and
having conversations,under-skinned skills,
under-skining the desires andobjectives of the employees as
(21:49):
well and matching that.
But at some times it's theopposite.
The employee needs to manage myexpectations.
So I might say this is thedeliverable.
I want you to meet thiscommitment to our clients, to
your colleagues or to myself,but manage my expectations.
If what I've said and it turnsout it's going to take much
longer than the 40-hour workweek, then you need to tell me
(22:11):
that.
And we're going to reset thoseexpectations to the extent that
we can.
Now, I've been in a B2Benvironment most of my career
and clients dictate a lot oftimes, and so sometimes we're
struggling.
I'll acknowledge that.
But it's about having thosevery open dialogues.
Kyla Cofer (22:27):
Yeah, so do you when you're interacting and having
that open communication.
Tell us on day one when you'vehired somebody, how are you
encouraging them to have thatopen communication with you and
be able to feel safe enough tocome tell you Hey, my boss
expects us to be done in 20hours, but it's gonna take me 60
and I'm terrified to tell her.
You know, like ha, tell me, howare you creating and building
(22:49):
that culture where people canhave a good discussion about
what expectations really are?
Victoria Pelletier (22:55):
So, through the recruitment process, they
should already have a very goodsense.
Like I'm known for my radicalcandor.
So for your audience who mayhave read Kim Scott's book, I
was practicing this long beforeI probably had that vernacular
and that's being completelydirect and transparent, but from
a place of care and compassion,and so that's my style.
(23:15):
But I also want to beincredibly transparent around
what it looks like coming intothis role.
So I'm really clear in therecruitment process: this is
what the role entails, this ishow it's measured, here's the
environment.
I do try and lay out I wantpeople to come in eyes wide open
, to the extent that I can, or Ihave awareness of what that is,
so they know that coming in.
But that is also created trustin our relationship right off
(23:38):
the bat.
Like they understand, you knowthe way I operate and I also
commit to regular one-on-oneswith my team where I say, hey,
this is our committed calendar,we're going to make sure that we
have that conversation, and sofor me also, those are
Opportunities to haveconversations about performance
and expectations and not justwait until the annual
performance cycle.
(23:58):
So we're having thatconversation and I had to shift.
I wasn't always as eithervulnerable or Authentically
transparent and open, and earlyin my 20s, when I became an
executive, I felt like I neededto show up with this mask as a
(24:21):
young Female executive the onlyone, not no less, at the table.
So I was afraid to like, bevulnerable, show emotion and do
some of this.
I had to learn and pivot, quitefrankly, some of my leadership
style.
But now that I do, that, likethis, creates amazing employee
engagement and clarity aroundexpectations and Performance and
then growth and opportunity forthe employees.
Kyla Cofer (24:43):
It's really something when your leader can
be vulnerable and share theirown stories.
It makes well for me.
When I've been in thosepositions and following somebody
, I have felt safer and I havefelt like, okay, I can trust
this person.
So it really builds thiselement of trust that when you
can trust the people you'reworking with, you're willing to
go a lot further and work a lotharder.
Victoria Pelletier (25:02):
Yeah, exactly.
That's why, when we look at ameasure, success has to be
looking at employee engagement,retention, those pieces, because
that actually drives againgoing back to what's the right
thing to do versus actually howit drives Amazing business
outcomes around productivity andall these other metrics, and so
I think I wish more leadersrecognized that.
Kyla Cofer (25:23):
Yeah, tell me just briefly like I imagine sharing
and being open when you firststarted out was a little bit
scary.
Tell me how you push throughthat.
Victoria Pelletier (25:30):
I think you need to lean into the things
that make you uncomfortable.
Without doing that, I actuallythink the growth will not come,
and so for me, it started withsmall things.
Like I knew I needed to build abetter relationship and rapport
with my employees, so thatmeant I didn't walk into a
meeting and go straight into thebusiness agenda.
So I needed to be conscious.
(25:50):
I'm gonna take and talkyourself talk.
I'm gonna take the first fiveminutes walking in to talk about
what happened on the weekendand get to know a little bit
more.
So that was just like for thiseight type personality that I am
to like want to dive.
So it was from.
Kyla Cofer (26:03):
I must have driven you crazy those first five
minutes must have been aboutlike five hours.
Victoria Pelletier (26:06):
I'll talk used to not be like innate at
all.
Now I do it like I talked tostrangers from the elevator,
like I just it's who I am now.
But that wasn't me 20 somethingyears ago.
Even things like saying youknow what, I don't know what I
don't know, like, and being okayto say as a leader, like I
don't have all the answers.
You know we're here as a team.
We bring different skills andlife experience altogether to
the table, so let's solve ittogether.
(26:27):
I actually just think beingvulnerable and open and saying I
don't know, but we're gonnafigure this out and we're gonna
make a commitment to get itsolved, like that in itself
breeds trust.
So again, that goes back to you.
I wasn't comfortable in my 20sdoing that at all.
Kyla Cofer (26:40):
I wanted to pretend like I knew all the answers a
Lot of us do, because we wantpeople to see us.
You know, even past your 20s,even as an adult, we want people
to see us how we want them tosee us.
Like we want to create thatopinion of ourselves.
We like feel like we have somecontrol over that and we want
people to see us as competentand that we can hack it and now
(27:02):
we're capable and that theyhired us like they should be
proud that they hired us becausewe can get this job done.
But some of that, that pride,comes in the doing and in the
acknowledging I'm not sure, butthat's not the thing that draws
people in.
It's not the I'm not sure.
It's that I'm gonna figure itout and we're gonna work
together to solve this problemAnd I'm gonna lead you there to
(27:23):
find the solution.
Victoria Pelletier (27:24):
Yeah, and this sort of leads me to another
Important piece that I think iscritical to our success is
around a personal brand and andso sort of developing that, yes,
you can be known for whateveryour subject matter expertise
is, the eminence that you havein an industry or function.
But then there's this who areyou as a person?
And so that in itself breedstrust in others.
(27:46):
So if a deadline slips or youhave to say I don't know,
they're confident, and not onlybecause you're an expert in this
space, but because you're veryaligned to how you shown up and
you curated, authentically, thepersona or the personal brand
and what people know about you.
Kyla Cofer (28:02):
Absolutely and, let's be real, like the only
reason we ever make any progressis because we've said we didn't
know something and we've hadquestions about how to do
something.
Right, like that's how progresshappens, is I'm curious and I
think we want to go over here,don't know how to get there, but
we can.
I love stories of hearing aboutWalt Disney and when Disney
first started out and they'd belike we have this idea to do
something and they're like, well, that's never been done before.
Well then, let's do it.
(28:23):
Like we don't know how to makethings move, and they said, well
, we're gonna find a way.
And they did.
And they always just dream waybeyond what they ever thought
was capable.
Victoria Pelletier (28:32):
Yeah, exactly.
Kyla Cofer (28:34):
So, Victoria, you've kind of mentioned it several
times, but if you had one pieceof advice to give, what would
that be?
Victoria Pelletier (28:41):
One is hard.
Kyla Cofer (28:42):
I know right, it's so mean.
I'm so sorry Yeah.
Victoria Pelletier (28:45):
I'm like oh, what is that?
Authenticity is critical, and Isay that because then it
actually touches many otherpoints.
Authenticity and being true toyourself and what you want, your
desires, your passion, thethings that bring you joy, but
also authenticity and how youshow up to the world, as we've
just said, like that breedstrust and builds relationships
(29:06):
with others, and I think so manyof us are afraid to do that,
whether it's rejection, lack ofacceptance, not fitting in,
whatever it is, and so we don'teither follow authentically what
we want or show others who weare.
So that's the thing I wish I my40-something-year-old self now;
(29:27):
and I always talk about agebecause I really do think
there's a lot that's come in thelived experience I've had in
the years that I've had.
That makes me much moreconfident in that now.
So I'd go back and tell that20-year-old what I listen to
myself.
I don't know.
My kids often don't listen tome.
Now they're like yah yah mom.
Kyla Cofer (29:44):
A lot of times we don't have.
You know, we have to hearthings a lot before they really
soak in and before we understandthem, and we have to come to
our own journeys on our ownright.
How many times have you toldsomebody something like if we
only did it this way, and thenthree years later, they've been
like, well, if we had only didit this way.
You're like I told you thatthree years ago.
(30:05):
That's right.
We have to kind of figure itout for ourselves And that's
just part of the journey islearning these tools, hearing
the words, hearing other experts, people who've been there and
who've done that and who've beenthrough hard things, who've
made mistakes, and understandingthat we're all still in our own
journey, figuring things out,even into our old years, which
(30:30):
neither of us are there yet, butwe are getting there.
As we're growing, we figure itout.
Victoria, this has been reallynice And I just really
appreciate your vulnerability.
And I appreciate hearing howyou have taken that
vulnerability and use that totransform the cultures and
really drive forward change,because it's not just about that
(30:51):
bottom line, even though youare pushing that bottom line
further.
You've actually made adifference in the world culture
as a whole by prioritizingthings like diversity, inclusion
, equity, authenticity.
Is there anything else youwould want our leaders to hear
before we wrap up?
Victoria Pelletier (31:05):
I sign a lot of my social media posts with
two hashtags, and one isunstoppable and the other is no
excuses and very connected.
And so in the boundaries piecearound no one telling you how
far and why you could go, likethe audience to recognize, like
you're the CEO of brand you andnot only what you choose to do
and how you show up in the world.
(31:25):
But then the no excuses pieceis around the choices we make
and, as we said earlier, youmight need to make choices at
certain times for certainreasons, but they're yours.
But then the other thing isrecognizing that, like challenge
and adversity is inevitable andwe can choose how to respond.
It doesn't mean like I'm a crierI watch like Charmin
(31:47):
commercials on TV.
I'm sure I'm like no HumaneSociety with Sarah McLaughlin
singing will bring down thetears Right.
And when I say no excuses, itdoesn't mean we can't feel the
emotion in that moment.
But I then have a choice interms of how I'm going to move
forward with a challenge or theadversity.
So I'd leave your listenerswith that notion of unstoppable
(32:08):
and no excuses towards whatevertheir journey looks like for
themselves.
Kyla Cofer (32:13):
Yeah, and taking really ownership of your own
life that you get to be incharge.
That's awesome, Victoria.
Thank you so much.
I have so appreciated youjoining me today and sharing
your story, and just thank youfor being here on Leadership
School Podcast.
Victoria Pelletier (32:27):
Thanks for having me.
Kyla Cofer (32:31):
So I started this podcast because I wanted to
learn and grow in my leadershipjourney and I have been so
incredibly inspired by theguests and the conversations.
So once the interview ends, Iactually keep the conversation
going because I have found thatsometimes the richest part of
the conversation is when we feellike the interview is over and
we can just kind of have arelaxed, more casual
(32:53):
conversation.
Also, if you've noticed, ifyou've been following this
podcast for some time, I used toask every guest two questions
What does integrity mean to themand what does balance look like
to them?
Well, I haven't stopped askingthose questions.
We're just putting those overon our Patreon page.
So go check it out atpatreoncom slash leadership
school And for $6.50 a month youcan support this podcast.
(33:18):
It takes a lot to produce everysingle episode and, honestly, I
can use a little bit of support.
So anything that you're able tocontribute would really mean a
lot to me and would be able tohelp me to continue to bring
these high caliber guests in tohave conversations on what does
it look like to be anextraordinary lead And how do we
practically do that?
So those conversations arecontinuing over at patreon.
(33:41):
com slash leadership schoolwhere I'm asking guests some
extra questions, some bonusquestions.
You'll get some bonus contentover there, so be sure to go
check it out.
Thanks so much for your supportand thanks so much for
subscribing, listening andsharing this podcast.
It really does mean a lot andI'm so honored to show up here
in your podcast feed.
Hey, thank you so much forlistening.
(34:05):
If you like what you heard andyou want some more tools and
resources to help you on yourjourney, go check out kylacofer.
com/ free stuff.
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