August 24, 2023 • 31 mins
Ever wondered how you can make a difference in your everyday life? Today, we've got Brian Unell, CEO of VantageHealthai and author of Everyday Leadership, You Will Make a Difference, on the show to help you do just that. With a fascinating journey that started with a statistics degree and led him through consulting and healthcare, Brian shares invaluable insights on leadership and company culture that will leave you inspired.
One key takeaway from our conversation is the powerful role of company culture and how it can be proactively shaped. Brian and I dive into how you can establish a purpose and commitment statement, foster a servant leadership mentality, and navigate the tricky waters of implementing change in large organizations.
Our discussion then pivots to the profound impact of a growth mindset on communication, courtesy of Carol Dweck's theory. We unravel how internal intentions can color our communication style, fostering a more positive environment. As we round up the episode, we reflect on leadership, growth, and the value of relationships. Discover how mindful communication can transform your interactions and eliminate those pesky preconceived notions that can lead to negative outcomes. This is one episode you don't want to miss!
Brian is the CEO of VantageHealth.ai which focuses on simplifying the billing and payment processes for patients while reducing costs and increasing revenue for providers/vendors. Brian also founded Thrival Consulting, LLC in 2020 which focuses on expanding leadership at home, work, and in life as an author and speaker. His first book Everyday Leadership: You Will Make A Difference was released in the Fall of 2022. Previously, Brian served as the Vice President, Revenue Cycle at Piedmont Healthcare (PHC) leading 1,500 team members to drive results for 11 hospitals & >1,000 providers. Brian also worked in PHC’s corporate PMO where he developed the business case and served as an accountable executive for a $180M systems integration project implementing Epic and PeopleSoft.
Brian has been described as a transformational healthcare executive who has a passion for cultivating talent and driving change to enable sustainable results. Brian defines opportunities, develops strategies, prioritizes initiatives, and drives results via a belief that “Communications and Expectations are 90% of Success” while trying each day to solve more problems than he causes.
Brian holds three degrees from the University of Florida: BS-Statistics, Master of Business Administration, & Master of Health Administration. Brian currently resides in his hometown of Atlanta with his wife Hilary, fifteen-year-old son Harris and five-year-old daughter Sara.
Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please support us on Patreon.
For more leadership tools, check out the free workbooks at KylaCofer.com/freestuff.
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Brian Unell (00:00):
But the cool part about that decision where I went
against what my team'srecommendation was the one time
one of my director ports walkedin my office the next day and
she looked at me and said youknow we disagree with this and I
said yes, and she said we'llsupport it 100% and turned
around and walked out.
And they did.
And it was at that moment intime I knew the culture held.
Kyla Cofer (00:28):
Welcome to the Leadership School podcast.
I'm your host leadership andself-care coach, Kyla Cofer.
Here at the Leadership School,you'll hear leaders from around
the world sharing their storiesand expertise on how to lead
with balance and integrity.
Our goal teach you how to be anextraordinary leader.
Welcome back leaders.
(00:54):
Today I'm here with Brian Unell,who is the CEO of VantageHealth
.
ai.
They focus on simplifying thebilling and payment process for
patients, which we know we'veall had to deal with that and
how much of a pain that is.
So thank you, Brian, for yourwork on that.
He's also the author of thebook Everyday Leadership, you
will make a difference.
(01:14):
So our conversation todayreally talked a lot about three
things culture, mindset and thateverybody can be a leader.
So Brian really believes thateverybody can be a leader and we
talked a lot about what thatlooks like and what creating a
company culture that you areproud of looks like, and he
really gets into sharing somestories, personal stories.
(01:36):
My favorite is when he talksabout a big decision that he had
to make and that was differentfrom the rest of his team and
how his team supported him inthat decision because of the
company culture that theycreated.
So take a listen for thatparticular story.
Brian, thank you so much forjoining us on the podcast today.
It's such a pleasure to haveyou here, Brian.
I really am grateful for youspending time and taking the
(01:58):
time to join me here on theLeadership School podcast, so
thanks so much for joining me.
I would love to just hear aboutyou and your story.
You've got quite a unique,interesting story, so why don't
you share with us your journeyand how you got to here?
Brian Unell (02:10):
Well, first off, Kyla, I appreciate the
opportunity to be here.
Thank you very much.
It is exciting to be able toshare my story.
I'm born and raised here inAtlanta, Georgia, and where I
currently reside, despite thepainting of the Arkansas
travelers behind me, which isactually painted by my uncle,
believe it or not, when mycousin was a assistant general
manager there 30 years ago.
Believe it or not?
Kyla Cofer (02:27):
Wait, that's a painting.
I thought it was a photo.
Brian Unell (02:29):
I know everyone thinks it's a photo but it's a
painting.
It was left in my parents'basement.
I don't think my cousin's wifeliked the painting so we got
left in my basement so I put upmy office.
But he knows it's here so hecan get it one day.
I had a couple cousins who wentto the University of Florida
for my undergraduate degree.
I was pre-med in pre-acturialscience, obviously not sure what
I wanted to do with my life,but really more curious than
(02:51):
anything else about justlearning.
I always had a thirst ofknowledge, so to speak, and
always wanted just to continueto learn.
So I wanted to try to figureout what I wanted to do next,
whether it was an actuary or adoctor.
And, long story short, mygrades weren't great but they
weren't terrible.
But I just hated the scienceclasses and I had taken a number
of other business classes withthe Actuary Science minor and
(03:12):
other things.
And I went to the GuidanceCounsel's office and I said I
need the shortest path out in myjunior year and she said
statistics degree and I saidsounds great.
So I had a statistics degree.
So I took the GMAT and did wellenough to get into both the
University of Florida's dualdegree MBA and MHA program and
the University of Georgia, andtwo years later, after
completing the program, startedErnst Young Big Five Consulting.
(03:36):
They end up selling us toCapgemini six months after I got
there, an Accenture severalyears after that, but thought I
would do it for a couple years,and did it for six and a half,
mainly focused in healthcare,mainly focused within the
provider space, in healthcareand within provider, worked for
them for six and a half years,and then went into industry,
worked at a very large healthsystem called Tenant Healthcare,
and then Tenant wanted me tomove to Dallas to create an
(03:59):
internal spin-off, but my wifewas seven months pregnant and,
for family reasons, I thought Ineeded to look around Atlanta
and join Piedmont Healthcare,which is an incredible,
tradition-rich, quality-focusedorganization based here in
Atlanta, and the health systemgrew from four hospitals at the
time into about 500 employeephysicians to, when I left, 11
(04:19):
hospitals and over 1,000physicians, and during that time
we improved net revenue byhundreds of millions of dollars.
And the two things I'm mostproud of, though, are the folks
that actually worked at thehospitals that became part of
our team as part of thattransformation effort, who do
the registration work, all oftheir employee engagement scores
were higher than the hospitalsthat they worked at, and we were
(04:39):
able to reduce our turnoverrate to under 10% the last two
years I was there.
So the industry average againwas between 20 and 25, which is
where we were at, but the lasttwo years was under 10.
Those are the things I'm mostproud of, because that makes
just a difference in people'slives.
Kyla Cofer (04:52):
That's pretty significant.
Was there one or two thingsthat you can kind of pinpoint
that really helped make thatleap?
Brian Unell (04:57):
It was really all about hiring the right people
and with the right intention andfocus, and I believe if you put
all of your time, energy andeffort in making sure the
resources on the front lineshave the tools and knowledge to
be able to do their jobs and thesupport, they will make your
life as a leader much, mucheasier.
Right, and it doesn't mean thatthe leaders aren't needed by
any stretch of imagination.
It just changes what they focuson.
Kyla Cofer (05:19):
Absolutely so.
You've spent most of yourcareer in financial roles and in
healthcare, right?
Yes, so tell me what you'redoing now.
Brian Unell (05:27):
So I decided to leave my job in late 2019.
And my last day was February7th of 2020.
I just needed to change.
I needed to do something.
Kyla Cofer (05:38):
Everybody knows what that date means.
Brian Unell (05:39):
Right, and so I had a whole bunch of things I was
looking at and everyone who haddone some sort of midlife career
change and I'd said you know,it seemed like a midlife crisis,
but it was really a midlifethoughtful, contemplative,
deliberate decision and I wasplanning to take a little time
to figure out what was next.
Fortunately, or unfortunately,due to COVID, I was given the
gift of time and was able towrite a book on leadership,
(06:02):
which was a pipe dream that Ihad for about a decade.
Kyla Cofer (06:06):
What's the title of your book?
Brian Unell (06:07):
It's called Everyday Leadership.
It's really focused on how youcan make a difference in
people's lives or you will makea difference in people's lives,
regardless of your role or yourtitle and we get to more of the
book in a minute.
But I'm currently the CEO of apatient financial engagement
company that is revolutionizingthe way patient billing is done.
Kyla Cofer (06:26):
Awesome, okay, tell me more about that, because I'm
just curious.
Brian Unell (06:29):
Yeah, so everybody is a healthcare experience and
everybody gets a healthcare bill, and it typically comes out on
paper these days and ittypically comes out once a month
, and we have found a way tomake it easier for people to
view and pay their bills bysending them digital
communications and toessentially turn the patients or
(06:49):
the guarantors into theemployees, just like all the
airlines have and all the hotelcompanies have and other
industries have, to be able toget you to buy their products
without actually having to uselabor to sell it to you, and
we've been able to increaserevenue and decrease cost.
Kyla Cofer (07:05):
Wow, that's amazing, fantastic.
Well, you've been working hard,Brian.
Brian Unell (07:10):
We have.
It's fun, it's a startup andit's something I've never done
before and I'm getting anopportunity to build a culture
with a company.
I believe organizations take onthe characteristics of their
leader and actually just thisweek rolled out a new set of
purpose statement and commitmentstatement which is different
than a sort of historical way oflooking at mission and vision.
So we have a purpose and acommitment that we make to our
(07:32):
customers and to our people anda set of values that we live by,
and it's exciting to be able toattract quality talent to be
able to make a difference.
Kyla Cofer (07:41):
So tell me a little bit more about that.
So you have, in the past,changed company culture and now
you're focused on buildingcompany culture.
So tell me about some of thosedifferences between when you had
to completely change it versusstarting from scratch, and how
you're going about that.
Maybe some advice that youwould have on where is the best
place to start and really makingsure that you get it right from
the start.
Brian Unell (07:59):
Yeah, prior to becoming the CEO of a startup, I
would call myself anentrepreneur, someone who went
into large companies as a changeagent to be able to just make a
difference, and either I wasyoung or naive or just didn't
care, or some combination is.
I always felt that I was askedto be part of an organization,
to speak my mind, so to speak,right, and I was asked to come
(08:22):
to a meeting.
I would tell people what Ithought, and I had numerous
bosses over the years tell methat I see things before other
people see them, and that was agift that I had and I needed to
be able to leverage it andcherish it.
But over time I realized thatsome organizations or some
cultures or some leaders don'talways want you to say what
you're thinking and had tobalance and try to figure that
out.
And so those largeorganizations, specifically
(08:45):
healthcare providers, aredesigned not to change.
They are really so steadfast inthe way that they've done
business for all these years.
And it's a really interestingrealization that I had a few
years ago when I was actuallywriting the book that I had not
fully comprehended when I wasactually in graduate school and
I was up in the MBA program orin the MBA program in the
(09:06):
business school, taking allthese business classes where
you're talking aboutorganizational behavior and
concepts such as servantleadership in ways that leaders
were managing in the late 90sand beginning in the 2000s, so
to speak.
And then I went down to themedical school area to be able
to take my health administrationclasses and all the concepts
around leadership were commandand control 1970s and 80s style
(09:31):
leadership that we are trainingyou to be able to go toe to toe
with the physicians, essentially.
And it never really hit me atthe time, but the dichotomy was
so just clear and it's reallystill prevalent across the
health industry today.
There are very feworganizations out there that
have true what I would callservant leadership mentality,
(09:53):
unfortunately, and I believethat that's one of the reasons
why there was so much nurseturnover and burnout during the
pandemic.
Kyla Cofer (09:59):
Burnout you have some experience with burnout.
Brian Unell (10:02):
I do have some experience with burnout,
unfortunately, fortunately,depending on how you want to
look at it.
Kyla Cofer (10:08):
Yeah, so you kind of went through that right before
the pandemic and kind of been ina journey and learning that.
So you have some really empathyfor what these people are going
through with our nurses.
Brian Unell (10:19):
Absolutely.
I mean culture is everything inan organization right?
It is the absolute one thing.
When stuff hits the fan or hitsthe wall, depending on how you
want to say it it's how theorganization operates.
And these organizations areterrific at providing great
quality care.
Don't get me wrong, they arefantastic at it, but they are so
(10:39):
cost focused that it reallyimpacts their ability to deliver
what I would call servantleadership mentality, and they
want to try to prevent errors.
The largest medical recordsystem in the world is something
called Epic and they are, likeI said, most countries now
across the world andspecifically over 300 million
people, I think, in the US atthis point in time.
(10:59):
One of the things the CIO sawquoted about Epic was it won't
make you extraordinary, it won'tmake you extraordinarily good
and it won't make youextraordinarily bad.
They try to keep it that way tosome degree because they want
to try to eliminate as muchvariation as possible, because
variation causes risk, etc.
But it also keeps people frombeing able to go above and
(11:21):
beyond and it keeps people frombeing able to identify things in
a way that they may nototherwise, because they just
become robotic in the process.
And again, I'm not speakinggenerically, there are wonderful
folks out there and wonderfulorganizations, but the more and
more that I've been able to stepback and get out of that frying
pan, I've just realized thatculture is everything.
Kyla Cofer (11:41):
Well, I agree, it's something that we really discuss
a lot here on the LeadershipSchool Podcast.
We talk a lot about personaldevelopment, emotional
intelligence, leading peoplefirst.
All of that really talks aboutthe company culture and
corporate culture and justfamily culture, society.
I mean, when you areintentional about what kind of
culture that you're creating,then everything else flows from
(12:01):
that and you know when you walkinto a place what kind of
culture they value.
You know, we were on the phonewith the customer service for a
utility company earlier thisafternoon and they have given us
the run around for an entireyear.
A year we have struggled withthe customer service on this
company and we had actuallycanceled the service.
We are just trying to like geteverything sorted out and it's
(12:23):
just you can tell from oneconversation with a customer
service rep what kind of culturethey have in that company
because the customer service isso bad.
But when I call customerservice with like some data and
soft databases and softwaresthat I use and I get such
positive, immediate, greatresponses.
Those are places that you'relike I kind of want to work
(12:44):
there because their customerservice is so great.
So even like the basic level ofculture trickles down to every
level of the company.
Brian Unell (12:51):
I mean.
Think about the fast foodrestaurant chains and how the
average Chick-fil-A does twiceas much revenue as the average
McDonald's, right?
Yes, maybe the food's better,maybe it's more expensive, but
people go to Chick-fil-A notjust because of the food but
because of the culture, right?
Kyla Cofer (13:05):
Because they know it's going to be, they're going
to feel safe and they're notgoing to be scared to walk
through it, Absolutely,Absolutely.
Hey, Brian, in your book let'stalk about your book for a
second because in your book youmentioned that you believe that
everybody can be a leader.
Maybe you can talk to us alittle bit about that.
Brian Unell (13:18):
Yeah, I'll just give a simple example at home,
because you mentioned homeearlier, and I believe parents
set the culture for theirfamilies right.
That one day my son he wasprobably 12 at the time and our
daughter is 9.5 years younger hewas upset about something and I
don't remember exactly what itwas, but he was upset or
whatever and my daughter justcame up to him, gave him a hug
(13:40):
around his leg and just startedpetting his leg right and it
immediately just changed hisdemeanor.
And it sounds silly, but thatwas demonstration of leadership.
She knew somebody neededsomething.
And even you know we areinnately, as humans, being able
to be able to provide empathy,at least the females in my life
are not sure about the males,but the females are and just
(14:03):
that moment of you knowcompletely changed the entire
situation.
And my wife describes it.
If you go to Costco and you'rein the return line, right, and
you think about this, whetheryou're the senior VP who's
coming to visit the store forthe day, the store manager, the
person behind the return counteror a customer, you can make or
ruin dozens of people's day justby your communication and your
(14:24):
mindset, which is what my bookis about, right, if you just
think about that, just thinkabout the interactions that you
can have when you walk into thedoctor's office and they don't
even look at you and they sayplease take a seat.
And then they say next, or theycall your name when you have to
write it down on the list, andyou walk up and they're still
looking down at their computer.
What kind of impression doesthat give to you as a customer
(14:47):
or as a patient, right?
Kyla Cofer (14:51):
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(15:15):
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(15:36):
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Kyla Cofer (16:32):
Yes, you just said that you can make or ruin
someone's day by yourcommunication and your mindset.
I'm following you on both ofthose, but I'm curious if you
could explain a little bit moreabout what you mean by the word
mindset here, because we canknow about communication I could
communicate with you in gruffvoice or kind voice or how the
words make a difference.
Right, and not just the wordsbut the energy behind it.
(16:52):
What do you mean when you'resaying mindset?
Brian Unell (16:55):
Yes, I'll take it from two angles.
One is, at a big level is justhow you think in your openness
to new things, which is tied tothe second item, which is a
theory by Carol Dweck called agrowth mindset.
I don't know if you've heard ofCarol Dweck.
I learned of Carol Dweck when myson came home in third or
fourth grade with a flyerbasically they had completed it
(17:17):
and it was read and it saiddon't be a fixed Freddy.
And so I started talking to himabout what a fixed Freddy was.
And a fixed Freddy is somebodyyou experience or expresses a
certain set of characteristicsassociated with a fixed mindset
that I can't do something, orthis is too hard for me, or I
can't be friends with thatperson in class, or something
(17:40):
along those lines, where youhave already predetermined with
the outcome before you evenstarted the task because your
mindset is set that way.
And Carol talks about theconcept of a growth mindset and
the ability to look atsituations and opportunities and
people and conversations in adifferent way, and that in
itself, to me, is the singlebiggest thing that you can do is
(18:02):
to try to learn something newevery day, versus going into
with a preconceived notion.
Kyla Cofer (18:07):
What's interesting to me, though, is the way that
you're applying the word mindsetto the way that we can
influence somebody else, so notjust in the way they're
communicating, but the way thatour internal intentions are set.
I look at it as the way thatwe've set our mind yeah, having
a curiosity mindset, a growthmindset, a learning mindset.
(18:28):
All of these, then filterthrough the way that we
communicate, and then that, inturn, is what the culture or the
energy that we bring tosomebody else Absolutely so.
If I go in with a I'm here tolearn and be curious about you,
then that's going to affect theway that you respond to my
conversation.
Ad (18:46):
Yeah.
Kyla Cofer (18:47):
Is that?
Was that what you're meaningwhen you say the word mindset?
Brian Unell (18:49):
I think in some ways it's sort of in the eye of
the beholder.
Some degree right, butabsolutely right.
It's being having openness forlack of better phrase instead of
closed.
You know, I've occasionally, ifyou work in a large
organization, people call youabout some employee on part of
your organization and they hadsome interaction with someone on
their team, etc.
And I used to be defensiveabout my team.
(19:12):
Always right, you're alwaysgoing to be defensive of your
team.
Or I would be the other wayaround, like, well, that
person's caused problems in thepast, so I'm sure they caused
the problem again this time, andthat even those simple sort of
preconceived notions can lead tobad outcomes.
Or I talked about an example Iactually have written.
When I wrote the book, I endedup writing over 50 chapters and
(19:33):
100,000 words, and 15,000 wordsis a case study.
And it's a case study on thishuge decision that we had to
make as an organization around anew vendor for something and
the process that we put through,etc.
And what I realized throughthat whole process is the
process was designed to get theoutcome based upon how we set it
(19:56):
up.
Right the process, the decisionwas actually going to be made,
or the outcome of the or therecommended decision was made
based on the way the process wasset up, and so I had to take a
step back at the end of theprocess and realized the entire
process, it wasn't flawed, itwas actually done perfectly.
It just led to an outcome thatwas already known like.
(20:18):
We went through this giant RFPand dozens of vendors and dozens
of meetings, and it led to thesame outcome every time because
of the way that we set up theprocess right.
We asked, we had people who werepart of the team from various
parts of the organization whogave their input on what
questions they wanted to ask andwhat was important to them, so
it immediately ruled out anypotential other option.
(20:41):
They were so fixated on whatthey thought that they wanted as
opposed to what result thatthey wanted to try to get out of
it.
And that's what I talk aboutopenness and mindset.
And it was the one time in mycareer where I overruled my team
and I went with the vendor thatthey tried to rule out at the
beginning of the process becausethey didn't like the RFP
(21:02):
response, and then, after theoral presentation, I made them
come in and just give oralsbecause I wanted the team to
hear something different thaneverybody else, and I had no
intention of selecting them, Ijust wanted the team to hear
something different and theyrated dead last out of everybody
.
And I started havingconversations with the team and
I realized that it wasn't thatthey didn't like the vendor.
(21:25):
They just didn't think that theway the vendor operated was
gonna get us the results that weneeded.
Kyla Cofer (21:32):
It's fascinating Well that's just like proof
there to me and you know we'veseen this kind of proof in so
many different ways but it'sjust proof of how our emotions
and the way we feel affect factsand affect our thoughts.
So all of those things worktogether and when we're thinking
about something, our emotionsplay into the way that thought
(21:52):
processes and appears itself tous.
So if we're already feelinguncomfortable, we're feeling
disrespected, we're feelingbored, we're feeling like we are
not, our opinions aren't validor being heard, that no matter
how good something is, on theother end we're gonna
automatically think that it'snot right and it's not gonna
(22:13):
work for us.
And we're gonna tell ourselvesthat it's true.
That goes back to that mindset,right?
So we're gonna tell ourselvesthat that's true because our
brains are gonna create thatanyways, that end result,
because of the way that we feel.
Brian Unell (22:24):
I believe that when we are almost everyone out
there that I know has more to doin a day than they have time to
do it and in those instancesyou typically go back to what
you know and what you like to do, and what that means is is you
find comfort in hearing thingsthat support your opinions,
right?
It's why people who have certainviews watch MSNBC and others
(22:49):
who have certain views watch FoxNews.
It's that reassurance that theyhave been craving, because
their lives and it's justsomething that they're looking
for that's stable, right, theydon't wanna feel challenged.
And me, in the mornings, whenI'm exercising five, six in the
morning, I'll watch all thechannels because I'd like to
understand what the differentviews are out there, and then I
(23:11):
shut it off and watch somethingsports related.
But it's just reallyinteresting.
But the cool part about thatdecision where I went against
what my team's recommendationwas the one time one of my
director ports walked to myoffice the next day and she
looked at me and said you knowwe disagree with this, and I
said yes, and she said we'llsupport it 100% and turned
(23:33):
around and walked out.
And they did, and it was atthat moment in time I knew the
culture held.
Kyla Cofer (23:40):
Wow, because you had already built that culture of
respect and being able to trusteach other.
Brian Unell (23:45):
Yep, and it wasn't something I did all the time.
It wasn't.
They didn't agree with it, butthey supported it 100% and they
made it work and it brought inmillions of dollars to the
business.
Kyla Cofer (23:57):
Wow, those decisions can be really challenging when
you know that you're having topush back against someone else,
but you know that's the rightdecision, and when you're up
against a team, but they haveyour team come alongside you and
support your anyways.
Let me ask this did you loseany employees?
Did anybody?
Was anybody like I just can't,I can't.
Brian Unell (24:13):
No.
Kyla Cofer (24:14):
That's amazing.
Brian Unell (24:15):
And it was a painful process because the
vendor was new into the space tosome degree.
They'd not done it.
We had to teach them.
We had to educate them and theteam did an incredible job.
I mean, they really did.
They stepped up.
They not once did they evercome back and complain to me and
say we should have donesomething different.
Kyla Cofer (24:31):
Isn't that kind of fun, though, that sometimes,
when we are working towards acommon goal and we have the
struggle that we actuallyaccomplish more, that we go
farther and we grow closertogether.
Brian Unell (24:43):
Yeah, it's so true and if you would have just done.
It's sort of like one of thephilosophies is I was putting
these values together, for thenew company that I'm working
with now is, I said, correct isgreater than fast plus easy.
Right, it's one of the valueswe have, because the founder and
myself both are trying to builda business.
Right, it's easy to some degreeto go out and raise money and
(25:06):
hype and all those things, butwhen you actually want to build
a business, it's fun, it's a lotmore rewarding than just trying
to go out and raise money, soto speak, and get all the hype
and branding and marketing.
We actually have a product thatworks and our clients love it,
their patients love it and it'sbeen great.
Kyla Cofer (25:25):
Wow.
Well, Brian, can you maybesummarize for me?
You've mentioned it a few times, but you said you believe that
everybody can be a leader.
I mean, I guess we didn'treally talk about should
everybody be a leader?
That's probably a discussionfor another day, but I'm just
wondering if you could just sumup for me.
What does the word leadershipand what does the act of
leadership mean to you?
Brian Unell (25:45):
It's funny you mentioned that.
One of the things I do when Ido my keynote is I talk about
and ask the group well, what isleadership?
Right?
You get these different things,helping people achieve goals,
or getting alignment among ateam, and essentially they're
all subjective.
There's no objective, real viewof leadership, so I basically
then, basically, I tell everyoneI said well, leadership is like
(26:08):
pornography, because theSupreme Court Justice Potter,
said we're not pornography,because I know it when I see it,
and that's really whatleadership is at the end of the
day.
People know it when they see it, and sometimes it's good
leadership and sometimes it'sbad, but they definitely know it
when they see it.
And I think, though, it goesbeyond that, and that's what my
(26:28):
book tries to do, which isdifferent than everything else
that's out there, because allthese previous books on
leadership put leadership on apedestal.
I believe that you have to havea role or a title, or you're
born with it, or you have thesecertain characteristics that
make you a leader, but, inreality, we all have it inside
of us.
We really do, I believe, tomake a difference, and whether
(26:51):
it's helping somebody cross thestreet or carrying out
somebody's groceries from thegrocery store, the little acts
of kindness in some ways justcan make a huge difference in
somebody's day, week, month,life, year, right, I mean it's
just, and that's what it's aboutto me.
It's not these big things thateverybody wants to put up there.
It's really about trying tomake the small differences every
(27:11):
day to make the world and eachother's lives better.
Kyla Cofer (27:14):
If you were to give yourself, your 30-year-old self,
a piece of advice, what wouldyou want your 30-year-old self
to know?
Brian Unell (27:21):
Can I cuss?
Kyla Cofer (27:22):
No.
Brian Unell (27:23):
Slow, the blank down, slow down.
Kyla Cofer (27:26):
Slow down.
Brian Unell (27:26):
Slow down.
It's the number one thing Iwould give my 30-year-old self.
I was just going doing fast asI possibly could.
Again, not because I wasinterested in speed by any
stretch of the imagination.
It was just I thought doingmore faster would allow me to
(27:49):
achieve more, and it did, untilI got to a spot where I realized
that there's a lot more to life, so much more to life.
Kyla Cofer (27:56):
You know, I think the pandemic is challenging and
tough, as it was really gave usall that perspective that we
have to enjoy the life thatwe're living now in a way that
helps us to remember that all wehave is this exact moment.
Brian Unell (28:14):
Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent.
Talk about, maybe it's wisdom,I don't know.
I'm not saying I have it by anystretch of imagination, but I
definitely have more wise than Iwas in my 20s or 30s.
But I probably would have nothad as much fun either in
certain aspects in our 20s and30s.
But I'm still cautious, ingeneral conservative, how I
(28:39):
operate on a day-to-day basis.
I'm not a big risk taker ingeneral.
I still would slow down becausein relationships are what
matter.
I mean, it's, at the end of theday, it's about the impact that
you have on others.
And that gets back to thetheory that I have that
everybody can make a differencein everyone's lives.
And fortunately I don't havetoo many regrets, I don't have
(28:59):
to go back, and there's a coupleof situations in my life I wish
I would have handleddifferently.
I think we all have those andfor the most part I have amended
where possible those situations.
But relationships are the mostimportant thing.
Kyla Cofer (29:14):
Well, I think we kind of wrapped up everything,
so I just really wanted to saythanks so much for joining me on
the podcast and for sharingyour wisdom and your experience
with us.
I'm just really really gratefulfor your time.
Brian Unell (29:25):
I'm grateful for the opportunity.
Hopefully you got what youneeded.
Kyla Cofer (29:30):
So I started this podcast because I wanted to
learn and grow in my leadershipjourney and I have been so
incredibly inspired by theguests and the conversations.
So once the interview ends, Iactually keep the conversation
going because I have found thatsometimes the richest part of
the conversation is when we feellike the interview is over and
we can just kind of have arelaxed, more casual
(29:52):
conversation.
Also, if you've noticed, ifyou've been following this
podcast for some time, I used toask every guest two questions
what does integrity mean to themand what does balance look like
to them?
Well, I haven't stopped askingthose questions.
We're just putting those overon our Patreon page.
So go check it out atpatreoncom and for $6.50 a month
(30:15):
you can support this podcast.
It takes a lot to produce everysingle episode and, honestly, I
can use a little bit of support.
So anything that you're able tocontribute would really mean a
lot to me and would able to helpme to continue to bring these
high caliber guests in to haveconversations on what does it
look like to be an extraordinaryleader and how do we
(30:36):
practically do that.
So those conversations arecontinuing over at patreoncom
slash leadership school, whereI'm asking guests some extra
questions, some bonus questions.
You'll get some bonus contentover there, so be sure to go
check it out.
Thanks so much for your supportand thanks so much for
subscribing, listening andsharing this podcast.
It really does mean a lot andI'm so honored to show up here
(30:58):
in your podcast feed.
Hey, thank you so much forlistening.
If you've liked what you heardand you want some more tools and
resources to help you on yourjourney, go check out kylacofer.
com/ free stuff.
But the cool part about that decision where I went
against what my team'srecommendation was the one time
one of my director ports walkedin my office the next day and
she looked at me and said youknow we disagree with this and I
said yes, and she said we'llsupport it 100% and turned
around and walked out.
And they did.
And it was at that moment intime I knew the culture held.
Kyla Cofer (00:28):
Welcome to the Leadership School podcast.
I'm your host leadership andself-care coach, Kyla Cofer.
Here at the Leadership School,you'll hear leaders from around
the world sharing their storiesand expertise on how to lead
with balance and integrity.
Our goal teach you how to be anextraordinary leader.
Welcome back leaders.
(00:54):
Today I'm here with Brian Unell,who is the CEO of VantageHealth
.
ai.
They focus on simplifying thebilling and payment process for
patients, which we know we'veall had to deal with that and
how much of a pain that is.
So thank you, Brian, for yourwork on that.
He's also the author of thebook Everyday Leadership, you
will make a difference.
(01:14):
So our conversation todayreally talked a lot about three
things culture, mindset and thateverybody can be a leader.
So Brian really believes thateverybody can be a leader and we
talked a lot about what thatlooks like and what creating a
company culture that you areproud of looks like, and he
really gets into sharing somestories, personal stories.
(01:36):
My favorite is when he talksabout a big decision that he had
to make and that was differentfrom the rest of his team and
how his team supported him inthat decision because of the
company culture that theycreated.
So take a listen for thatparticular story.
Brian, thank you so much forjoining us on the podcast today.
It's such a pleasure to haveyou here, Brian.
I really am grateful for youspending time and taking the
(01:58):
time to join me here on theLeadership School podcast, so
thanks so much for joining me.
I would love to just hear aboutyou and your story.
You've got quite a unique,interesting story, so why don't
you share with us your journeyand how you got to here?
Brian Unell (02:10):
Well, first off, Kyla, I appreciate the
opportunity to be here.
Thank you very much.
It is exciting to be able toshare my story.
I'm born and raised here inAtlanta, Georgia, and where I
currently reside, despite thepainting of the Arkansas
travelers behind me, which isactually painted by my uncle,
believe it or not, when mycousin was a assistant general
manager there 30 years ago.
Believe it or not?
Kyla Cofer (02:27):
Wait, that's a painting.
I thought it was a photo.
Brian Unell (02:29):
I know everyone thinks it's a photo but it's a
painting.
It was left in my parents'basement.
I don't think my cousin's wifeliked the painting so we got
left in my basement so I put upmy office.
But he knows it's here so hecan get it one day.
I had a couple cousins who wentto the University of Florida
for my undergraduate degree.
I was pre-med in pre-acturialscience, obviously not sure what
I wanted to do with my life,but really more curious than
(02:51):
anything else about justlearning.
I always had a thirst ofknowledge, so to speak, and
always wanted just to continueto learn.
So I wanted to try to figureout what I wanted to do next,
whether it was an actuary or adoctor.
And, long story short, mygrades weren't great but they
weren't terrible.
But I just hated the scienceclasses and I had taken a number
of other business classes withthe Actuary Science minor and
(03:12):
other things.
And I went to the GuidanceCounsel's office and I said I
need the shortest path out in myjunior year and she said
statistics degree and I saidsounds great.
So I had a statistics degree.
So I took the GMAT and did wellenough to get into both the
University of Florida's dualdegree MBA and MHA program and
the University of Georgia, andtwo years later, after
completing the program, startedErnst Young Big Five Consulting.
(03:36):
They end up selling us toCapgemini six months after I got
there, an Accenture severalyears after that, but thought I
would do it for a couple years,and did it for six and a half,
mainly focused in healthcare,mainly focused within the
provider space, in healthcareand within provider, worked for
them for six and a half years,and then went into industry,
worked at a very large healthsystem called Tenant Healthcare,
and then Tenant wanted me tomove to Dallas to create an
(03:59):
internal spin-off, but my wifewas seven months pregnant and,
for family reasons, I thought Ineeded to look around Atlanta
and join Piedmont Healthcare,which is an incredible,
tradition-rich, quality-focusedorganization based here in
Atlanta, and the health systemgrew from four hospitals at the
time into about 500 employeephysicians to, when I left, 11
(04:19):
hospitals and over 1,000physicians, and during that time
we improved net revenue byhundreds of millions of dollars.
And the two things I'm mostproud of, though, are the folks
that actually worked at thehospitals that became part of
our team as part of thattransformation effort, who do
the registration work, all oftheir employee engagement scores
were higher than the hospitalsthat they worked at, and we were
(04:39):
able to reduce our turnoverrate to under 10% the last two
years I was there.
So the industry average againwas between 20 and 25, which is
where we were at, but the lasttwo years was under 10.
Those are the things I'm mostproud of, because that makes
just a difference in people'slives.
Kyla Cofer (04:52):
That's pretty significant.
Was there one or two thingsthat you can kind of pinpoint
that really helped make thatleap?
Brian Unell (04:57):
It was really all about hiring the right people
and with the right intention andfocus, and I believe if you put
all of your time, energy andeffort in making sure the
resources on the front lineshave the tools and knowledge to
be able to do their jobs and thesupport, they will make your
life as a leader much, mucheasier.
Right, and it doesn't mean thatthe leaders aren't needed by
any stretch of imagination.
It just changes what they focuson.
Kyla Cofer (05:19):
Absolutely so.
You've spent most of yourcareer in financial roles and in
healthcare, right?
Yes, so tell me what you'redoing now.
Brian Unell (05:27):
So I decided to leave my job in late 2019.
And my last day was February7th of 2020.
I just needed to change.
I needed to do something.
Kyla Cofer (05:38):
Everybody knows what that date means.
Brian Unell (05:39):
Right, and so I had a whole bunch of things I was
looking at and everyone who haddone some sort of midlife career
change and I'd said you know,it seemed like a midlife crisis,
but it was really a midlifethoughtful, contemplative,
deliberate decision and I wasplanning to take a little time
to figure out what was next.
Fortunately, or unfortunately,due to COVID, I was given the
gift of time and was able towrite a book on leadership,
(06:02):
which was a pipe dream that Ihad for about a decade.
Kyla Cofer (06:06):
What's the title of your book?
Brian Unell (06:07):
It's called Everyday Leadership.
It's really focused on how youcan make a difference in
people's lives or you will makea difference in people's lives,
regardless of your role or yourtitle and we get to more of the
book in a minute.
But I'm currently the CEO of apatient financial engagement
company that is revolutionizingthe way patient billing is done.
Kyla Cofer (06:26):
Awesome, okay, tell me more about that, because I'm
just curious.
Brian Unell (06:29):
Yeah, so everybody is a healthcare experience and
everybody gets a healthcare bill, and it typically comes out on
paper these days and ittypically comes out once a month
, and we have found a way tomake it easier for people to
view and pay their bills bysending them digital
communications and toessentially turn the patients or
(06:49):
the guarantors into theemployees, just like all the
airlines have and all the hotelcompanies have and other
industries have, to be able toget you to buy their products
without actually having to uselabor to sell it to you, and
we've been able to increaserevenue and decrease cost.
Kyla Cofer (07:05):
Wow, that's amazing, fantastic.
Well, you've been working hard,Brian.
Brian Unell (07:10):
We have.
It's fun, it's a startup andit's something I've never done
before and I'm getting anopportunity to build a culture
with a company.
I believe organizations take onthe characteristics of their
leader and actually just thisweek rolled out a new set of
purpose statement and commitmentstatement which is different
than a sort of historical way oflooking at mission and vision.
So we have a purpose and acommitment that we make to our
(07:32):
customers and to our people anda set of values that we live by,
and it's exciting to be able toattract quality talent to be
able to make a difference.
Kyla Cofer (07:41):
So tell me a little bit more about that.
So you have, in the past,changed company culture and now
you're focused on buildingcompany culture.
So tell me about some of thosedifferences between when you had
to completely change it versusstarting from scratch, and how
you're going about that.
Maybe some advice that youwould have on where is the best
place to start and really makingsure that you get it right from
the start.
Brian Unell (07:59):
Yeah, prior to becoming the CEO of a startup, I
would call myself anentrepreneur, someone who went
into large companies as a changeagent to be able to just make a
difference, and either I wasyoung or naive or just didn't
care, or some combination is.
I always felt that I was askedto be part of an organization,
to speak my mind, so to speak,right, and I was asked to come
(08:22):
to a meeting.
I would tell people what Ithought, and I had numerous
bosses over the years tell methat I see things before other
people see them, and that was agift that I had and I needed to
be able to leverage it andcherish it.
But over time I realized thatsome organizations or some
cultures or some leaders don'talways want you to say what
you're thinking and had tobalance and try to figure that
out.
And so those largeorganizations, specifically
(08:45):
healthcare providers, aredesigned not to change.
They are really so steadfast inthe way that they've done
business for all these years.
And it's a really interestingrealization that I had a few
years ago when I was actuallywriting the book that I had not
fully comprehended when I wasactually in graduate school and
I was up in the MBA program orin the MBA program in the
(09:06):
business school, taking allthese business classes where
you're talking aboutorganizational behavior and
concepts such as servantleadership in ways that leaders
were managing in the late 90sand beginning in the 2000s, so
to speak.
And then I went down to themedical school area to be able
to take my health administrationclasses and all the concepts
around leadership were commandand control 1970s and 80s style
(09:31):
leadership that we are trainingyou to be able to go toe to toe
with the physicians, essentially.
And it never really hit me atthe time, but the dichotomy was
so just clear and it's reallystill prevalent across the
health industry today.
There are very feworganizations out there that
have true what I would callservant leadership mentality,
(09:53):
unfortunately, and I believethat that's one of the reasons
why there was so much nurseturnover and burnout during the
pandemic.
Kyla Cofer (09:59):
Burnout you have some experience with burnout.
Brian Unell (10:02):
I do have some experience with burnout,
unfortunately, fortunately,depending on how you want to
look at it.
Kyla Cofer (10:08):
Yeah, so you kind of went through that right before
the pandemic and kind of been ina journey and learning that.
So you have some really empathyfor what these people are going
through with our nurses.
Brian Unell (10:19):
Absolutely.
I mean culture is everything inan organization right?
It is the absolute one thing.
When stuff hits the fan or hitsthe wall, depending on how you
want to say it it's how theorganization operates.
And these organizations areterrific at providing great
quality care.
Don't get me wrong, they arefantastic at it, but they are so
(10:39):
cost focused that it reallyimpacts their ability to deliver
what I would call servantleadership mentality, and they
want to try to prevent errors.
The largest medical recordsystem in the world is something
called Epic and they are, likeI said, most countries now
across the world andspecifically over 300 million
people, I think, in the US atthis point in time.
(10:59):
One of the things the CIO sawquoted about Epic was it won't
make you extraordinary, it won'tmake you extraordinarily good
and it won't make youextraordinarily bad.
They try to keep it that way tosome degree because they want
to try to eliminate as muchvariation as possible, because
variation causes risk, etc.
But it also keeps people frombeing able to go above and
(11:21):
beyond and it keeps people frombeing able to identify things in
a way that they may nototherwise, because they just
become robotic in the process.
And again, I'm not speakinggenerically, there are wonderful
folks out there and wonderfulorganizations, but the more and
more that I've been able to stepback and get out of that frying
pan, I've just realized thatculture is everything.
Kyla Cofer (11:41):
Well, I agree, it's something that we really discuss
a lot here on the LeadershipSchool Podcast.
We talk a lot about personaldevelopment, emotional
intelligence, leading peoplefirst.
All of that really talks aboutthe company culture and
corporate culture and justfamily culture, society.
I mean, when you areintentional about what kind of
culture that you're creating,then everything else flows from
(12:01):
that and you know when you walkinto a place what kind of
culture they value.
You know, we were on the phonewith the customer service for a
utility company earlier thisafternoon and they have given us
the run around for an entireyear.
A year we have struggled withthe customer service on this
company and we had actuallycanceled the service.
We are just trying to like geteverything sorted out and it's
(12:23):
just you can tell from oneconversation with a customer
service rep what kind of culturethey have in that company
because the customer service isso bad.
But when I call customerservice with like some data and
soft databases and softwaresthat I use and I get such
positive, immediate, greatresponses.
Those are places that you'relike I kind of want to work
(12:44):
there because their customerservice is so great.
So even like the basic level ofculture trickles down to every
level of the company.
Brian Unell (12:51):
I mean.
Think about the fast foodrestaurant chains and how the
average Chick-fil-A does twiceas much revenue as the average
McDonald's, right?
Yes, maybe the food's better,maybe it's more expensive, but
people go to Chick-fil-A notjust because of the food but
because of the culture, right?
Kyla Cofer (13:05):
Because they know it's going to be, they're going
to feel safe and they're notgoing to be scared to walk
through it, Absolutely,Absolutely.
Hey, Brian, in your book let'stalk about your book for a
second because in your book youmentioned that you believe that
everybody can be a leader.
Maybe you can talk to us alittle bit about that.
Brian Unell (13:18):
Yeah, I'll just give a simple example at home,
because you mentioned homeearlier, and I believe parents
set the culture for theirfamilies right.
That one day my son he wasprobably 12 at the time and our
daughter is 9.5 years younger hewas upset about something and I
don't remember exactly what itwas, but he was upset or
whatever and my daughter justcame up to him, gave him a hug
(13:40):
around his leg and just startedpetting his leg right and it
immediately just changed hisdemeanor.
And it sounds silly, but thatwas demonstration of leadership.
She knew somebody neededsomething.
And even you know we areinnately, as humans, being able
to be able to provide empathy,at least the females in my life
are not sure about the males,but the females are and just
(14:03):
that moment of you knowcompletely changed the entire
situation.
And my wife describes it.
If you go to Costco and you'rein the return line, right, and
you think about this, whetheryou're the senior VP who's
coming to visit the store forthe day, the store manager, the
person behind the return counteror a customer, you can make or
ruin dozens of people's day justby your communication and your
(14:24):
mindset, which is what my bookis about, right, if you just
think about that, just thinkabout the interactions that you
can have when you walk into thedoctor's office and they don't
even look at you and they sayplease take a seat.
And then they say next, or theycall your name when you have to
write it down on the list, andyou walk up and they're still
looking down at their computer.
What kind of impression doesthat give to you as a customer
(14:47):
or as a patient, right?
Kyla Cofer (14:51):
Hey leaders, have you ever considered starting
your very own podcast?
Podcasting is a really amazingway.
I want to just say for myselfmy own experience in creating
this Leadership School podcast.
I have grown my business, Ihave learned, exponentially.
I've had a ton of fun and myconfidence level has increased
tenfold by continuing to show upand put on a really great show.
(15:15):
If I could help you to startyour very own podcast without
feeling overwhelmed, without theconfusion of what do I do or
how do I start, without dealingwith all the self-doubt, would
you take me up on the offer?
If so, what I want you to do is, right now, go to
podcasterschool.
net.
That's podcasterschool.
net.
You can start out by taking thequiz on what kind of podcast
(15:36):
should you create.
From there, go ahead andschedule a call with me and
let's check.
I want to hear about what yourpotential ideas are and what
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It's such a fantastic way toreally grow, increase your
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(15:56):
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Kyla Cofer (16:32):
Yes, you just said that you can make or ruin
someone's day by yourcommunication and your mindset.
I'm following you on both ofthose, but I'm curious if you
could explain a little bit moreabout what you mean by the word
mindset here, because we canknow about communication I could
communicate with you in gruffvoice or kind voice or how the
words make a difference.
Right, and not just the wordsbut the energy behind it.
(16:52):
What do you mean when you'resaying mindset?
Brian Unell (16:55):
Yes, I'll take it from two angles.
One is, at a big level is justhow you think in your openness
to new things, which is tied tothe second item, which is a
theory by Carol Dweck called agrowth mindset.
I don't know if you've heard ofCarol Dweck.
I learned of Carol Dweck when myson came home in third or
fourth grade with a flyerbasically they had completed it
(17:17):
and it was read and it saiddon't be a fixed Freddy.
And so I started talking to himabout what a fixed Freddy was.
And a fixed Freddy is somebodyyou experience or expresses a
certain set of characteristicsassociated with a fixed mindset
that I can't do something, orthis is too hard for me, or I
can't be friends with thatperson in class, or something
(17:40):
along those lines, where youhave already predetermined with
the outcome before you evenstarted the task because your
mindset is set that way.
And Carol talks about theconcept of a growth mindset and
the ability to look atsituations and opportunities and
people and conversations in adifferent way, and that in
itself, to me, is the singlebiggest thing that you can do is
(18:02):
to try to learn something newevery day, versus going into
with a preconceived notion.
Kyla Cofer (18:07):
What's interesting to me, though, is the way that
you're applying the word mindsetto the way that we can
influence somebody else, so notjust in the way they're
communicating, but the way thatour internal intentions are set.
I look at it as the way thatwe've set our mind yeah, having
a curiosity mindset, a growthmindset, a learning mindset.
(18:28):
All of these, then filterthrough the way that we
communicate, and then that, inturn, is what the culture or the
energy that we bring tosomebody else Absolutely so.
If I go in with a I'm here tolearn and be curious about you,
then that's going to affect theway that you respond to my
conversation.
Ad (18:46):
Yeah.
Kyla Cofer (18:47):
Is that?
Was that what you're meaningwhen you say the word mindset?
Brian Unell (18:49):
I think in some ways it's sort of in the eye of
the beholder.
Some degree right, butabsolutely right.
It's being having openness forlack of better phrase instead of
closed.
You know, I've occasionally, ifyou work in a large
organization, people call youabout some employee on part of
your organization and they hadsome interaction with someone on
their team, etc.
And I used to be defensiveabout my team.
(19:12):
Always right, you're alwaysgoing to be defensive of your
team.
Or I would be the other wayaround, like, well, that
person's caused problems in thepast, so I'm sure they caused
the problem again this time, andthat even those simple sort of
preconceived notions can lead tobad outcomes.
Or I talked about an example Iactually have written.
When I wrote the book, I endedup writing over 50 chapters and
(19:33):
100,000 words, and 15,000 wordsis a case study.
And it's a case study on thishuge decision that we had to
make as an organization around anew vendor for something and
the process that we put through,etc.
And what I realized throughthat whole process is the
process was designed to get theoutcome based upon how we set it
(19:56):
up.
Right the process, the decisionwas actually going to be made,
or the outcome of the or therecommended decision was made
based on the way the process wasset up, and so I had to take a
step back at the end of theprocess and realized the entire
process, it wasn't flawed, itwas actually done perfectly.
It just led to an outcome thatwas already known like.
(20:18):
We went through this giant RFPand dozens of vendors and dozens
of meetings, and it led to thesame outcome every time because
of the way that we set up theprocess right.
We asked, we had people who werepart of the team from various
parts of the organization whogave their input on what
questions they wanted to ask andwhat was important to them, so
it immediately ruled out anypotential other option.
(20:41):
They were so fixated on whatthey thought that they wanted as
opposed to what result thatthey wanted to try to get out of
it.
And that's what I talk aboutopenness and mindset.
And it was the one time in mycareer where I overruled my team
and I went with the vendor thatthey tried to rule out at the
beginning of the process becausethey didn't like the RFP
(21:02):
response, and then, after theoral presentation, I made them
come in and just give oralsbecause I wanted the team to
hear something different thaneverybody else, and I had no
intention of selecting them, Ijust wanted the team to hear
something different and theyrated dead last out of everybody
.
And I started havingconversations with the team and
I realized that it wasn't thatthey didn't like the vendor.
(21:25):
They just didn't think that theway the vendor operated was
gonna get us the results that weneeded.
Kyla Cofer (21:32):
It's fascinating Well that's just like proof
there to me and you know we'veseen this kind of proof in so
many different ways but it'sjust proof of how our emotions
and the way we feel affect factsand affect our thoughts.
So all of those things worktogether and when we're thinking
about something, our emotionsplay into the way that thought
(21:52):
processes and appears itself tous.
So if we're already feelinguncomfortable, we're feeling
disrespected, we're feelingbored, we're feeling like we are
not, our opinions aren't validor being heard, that no matter
how good something is, on theother end we're gonna
automatically think that it'snot right and it's not gonna
(22:13):
work for us.
And we're gonna tell ourselvesthat it's true.
That goes back to that mindset,right?
So we're gonna tell ourselvesthat that's true because our
brains are gonna create thatanyways, that end result,
because of the way that we feel.
Brian Unell (22:24):
I believe that when we are almost everyone out
there that I know has more to doin a day than they have time to
do it and in those instancesyou typically go back to what
you know and what you like to do, and what that means is is you
find comfort in hearing thingsthat support your opinions,
right?
It's why people who have certainviews watch MSNBC and others
(22:49):
who have certain views watch FoxNews.
It's that reassurance that theyhave been craving, because
their lives and it's justsomething that they're looking
for that's stable, right, theydon't wanna feel challenged.
And me, in the mornings, whenI'm exercising five, six in the
morning, I'll watch all thechannels because I'd like to
understand what the differentviews are out there, and then I
(23:11):
shut it off and watch somethingsports related.
But it's just reallyinteresting.
But the cool part about thatdecision where I went against
what my team's recommendationwas the one time one of my
director ports walked to myoffice the next day and she
looked at me and said you knowwe disagree with this, and I
said yes, and she said we'llsupport it 100% and turned
(23:33):
around and walked out.
And they did, and it was atthat moment in time I knew the
culture held.
Kyla Cofer (23:40):
Wow, because you had already built that culture of
respect and being able to trusteach other.
Brian Unell (23:45):
Yep, and it wasn't something I did all the time.
It wasn't.
They didn't agree with it, butthey supported it 100% and they
made it work and it brought inmillions of dollars to the
business.
Kyla Cofer (23:57):
Wow, those decisions can be really challenging when
you know that you're having topush back against someone else,
but you know that's the rightdecision, and when you're up
against a team, but they haveyour team come alongside you and
support your anyways.
Let me ask this did you loseany employees?
Did anybody?
Was anybody like I just can't,I can't.
Brian Unell (24:13):
No.
Kyla Cofer (24:14):
That's amazing.
Brian Unell (24:15):
And it was a painful process because the
vendor was new into the space tosome degree.
They'd not done it.
We had to teach them.
We had to educate them and theteam did an incredible job.
I mean, they really did.
They stepped up.
They not once did they evercome back and complain to me and
say we should have donesomething different.
Kyla Cofer (24:31):
Isn't that kind of fun, though, that sometimes,
when we are working towards acommon goal and we have the
struggle that we actuallyaccomplish more, that we go
farther and we grow closertogether.
Brian Unell (24:43):
Yeah, it's so true and if you would have just done.
It's sort of like one of thephilosophies is I was putting
these values together, for thenew company that I'm working
with now is, I said, correct isgreater than fast plus easy.
Right, it's one of the valueswe have, because the founder and
myself both are trying to builda business.
Right, it's easy to some degreeto go out and raise money and
(25:06):
hype and all those things, butwhen you actually want to build
a business, it's fun, it's a lotmore rewarding than just trying
to go out and raise money, soto speak, and get all the hype
and branding and marketing.
We actually have a product thatworks and our clients love it,
their patients love it and it'sbeen great.
Kyla Cofer (25:25):
Wow.
Well, Brian, can you maybesummarize for me?
You've mentioned it a few times, but you said you believe that
everybody can be a leader.
I mean, I guess we didn'treally talk about should
everybody be a leader?
That's probably a discussionfor another day, but I'm just
wondering if you could just sumup for me.
What does the word leadershipand what does the act of
leadership mean to you?
Brian Unell (25:45):
It's funny you mentioned that.
One of the things I do when Ido my keynote is I talk about
and ask the group well, what isleadership?
Right?
You get these different things,helping people achieve goals,
or getting alignment among ateam, and essentially they're
all subjective.
There's no objective, real viewof leadership, so I basically
then, basically, I tell everyoneI said well, leadership is like
(26:08):
pornography, because theSupreme Court Justice Potter,
said we're not pornography,because I know it when I see it,
and that's really whatleadership is at the end of the
day.
People know it when they see it, and sometimes it's good
leadership and sometimes it'sbad, but they definitely know it
when they see it.
And I think, though, it goesbeyond that, and that's what my
(26:28):
book tries to do, which isdifferent than everything else
that's out there, because allthese previous books on
leadership put leadership on apedestal.
I believe that you have to havea role or a title, or you're
born with it, or you have thesecertain characteristics that
make you a leader, but, inreality, we all have it inside
of us.
We really do, I believe, tomake a difference, and whether
(26:51):
it's helping somebody cross thestreet or carrying out
somebody's groceries from thegrocery store, the little acts
of kindness in some ways justcan make a huge difference in
somebody's day, week, month,life, year, right, I mean it's
just, and that's what it's aboutto me.
It's not these big things thateverybody wants to put up there.
It's really about trying tomake the small differences every
(27:11):
day to make the world and eachother's lives better.
Kyla Cofer (27:14):
If you were to give yourself, your 30-year-old self,
a piece of advice, what wouldyou want your 30-year-old self
to know?
Brian Unell (27:21):
Can I cuss?
Kyla Cofer (27:22):
No.
Brian Unell (27:23):
Slow, the blank down, slow down.
Kyla Cofer (27:26):
Slow down.
Brian Unell (27:26):
Slow down.
It's the number one thing Iwould give my 30-year-old self.
I was just going doing fast asI possibly could.
Again, not because I wasinterested in speed by any
stretch of the imagination.
It was just I thought doingmore faster would allow me to
(27:49):
achieve more, and it did, untilI got to a spot where I realized
that there's a lot more to life, so much more to life.
Kyla Cofer (27:56):
You know, I think the pandemic is challenging and
tough, as it was really gave usall that perspective that we
have to enjoy the life thatwe're living now in a way that
helps us to remember that all wehave is this exact moment.
Brian Unell (28:14):
Yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent.
Talk about, maybe it's wisdom,I don't know.
I'm not saying I have it by anystretch of imagination, but I
definitely have more wise than Iwas in my 20s or 30s.
But I probably would have nothad as much fun either in
certain aspects in our 20s and30s.
But I'm still cautious, ingeneral conservative, how I
(28:39):
operate on a day-to-day basis.
I'm not a big risk taker ingeneral.
I still would slow down becausein relationships are what
matter.
I mean, it's, at the end of theday, it's about the impact that
you have on others.
And that gets back to thetheory that I have that
everybody can make a differencein everyone's lives.
And fortunately I don't havetoo many regrets, I don't have
(28:59):
to go back, and there's a coupleof situations in my life I wish
I would have handleddifferently.
I think we all have those andfor the most part I have amended
where possible those situations.
But relationships are the mostimportant thing.
Kyla Cofer (29:14):
Well, I think we kind of wrapped up everything,
so I just really wanted to saythanks so much for joining me on
the podcast and for sharingyour wisdom and your experience
with us.
I'm just really really gratefulfor your time.
Brian Unell (29:25):
I'm grateful for the opportunity.
Hopefully you got what youneeded.
Kyla Cofer (29:30):
So I started this podcast because I wanted to
learn and grow in my leadershipjourney and I have been so
incredibly inspired by theguests and the conversations.
So once the interview ends, Iactually keep the conversation
going because I have found thatsometimes the richest part of
the conversation is when we feellike the interview is over and
we can just kind of have arelaxed, more casual
(29:52):
conversation.
Also, if you've noticed, ifyou've been following this
podcast for some time, I used toask every guest two questions
what does integrity mean to themand what does balance look like
to them?
Well, I haven't stopped askingthose questions.
We're just putting those overon our Patreon page.
So go check it out atpatreoncom and for $6.50 a month
(30:15):
you can support this podcast.
It takes a lot to produce everysingle episode and, honestly, I
can use a little bit of support.
So anything that you're able tocontribute would really mean a
lot to me and would able to helpme to continue to bring these
high caliber guests in to haveconversations on what does it
look like to be an extraordinaryleader and how do we
(30:36):
practically do that.
So those conversations arecontinuing over at patreoncom
slash leadership school, whereI'm asking guests some extra
questions, some bonus questions.
You'll get some bonus contentover there, so be sure to go
check it out.
Thanks so much for your supportand thanks so much for
subscribing, listening andsharing this podcast.
It really does mean a lot andI'm so honored to show up here
(30:58):
in your podcast feed.
Hey, thank you so much forlistening.
If you've liked what you heardand you want some more tools and
resources to help you on yourjourney, go check out kylacofer.
com/ free stuff.
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