September 6, 2024 • 20 mins
In this podcast episode, Dr. Mark French discusses the intersection of human resources (HR) and safety, emphasizing the importance of creating a culture that values both. He shares his recent experience at a Society for Human Resource Management (SHRM) conference, where he explored the relationship between safety and HR. Dr. French highlights the tragic story of a Wells Fargo employee who was found dead at their cubicle after four days, unnoticed by colleagues. This incident serves as a stark example of the failure in basic human dignity and organizational culture. Dr. French criticizes the lack of engagement and concern for employee well-being, questioning how such an environment could allow for such negligence. He argues that safety and HR should not be siloed departments but rather integrated efforts to ensure a healthy, supportive workplace culture. He stresses the need for empathy, open communication, and active leadership in fostering environments where employees are genuinely cared for and valued. The podcast underscores that safety is not merely a compliance issue but a fundamental aspect of human dignity and organizational integrity. Dr. French calls for a shift in perspective, urging organizations to prioritize both the physical and psychological safety of their employees, ensuring that such tragic incidents are prevented in the future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mark French (00:01):
This week on the podcast, we're continuing a
conversation about people ingeneral and that cross between
human resources and safety andhow it all is one big culture
that we have to cultivate theright way. This week on the
podcast,
Unknown (00:22):
you welcome
Announcer (00:36):
to the leading and learning through safety podcast.
Your host is Dr Mark French.
Mark's passion is helpingorganizations motivate their
teams. This podcast is focusedon bringing up the best in
leadership through creatingstrong values, learning
opportunities, teamwork andsafety. Nothing is more
(00:57):
important than protecting yourpeople safety creates an
environment for empathy,innovation and empowerment.
Together, we'll discover meaningand purpose through shaping our
safety culture. Thanks forjoining us this episode and now
here is Dr Mark French. You
Mark French (01:30):
French, hello and welcome to this episode of the
leading and learning throughsafety podcast. I am your host,
Dr Mark French, and I am sohappy that again, you have
joined me, that you are part ofthe podcast family. I'm always
humbled and honored to hear thatyou've chosen to download this
(01:52):
20 minute piece of leadership,safety, engagement, all those
things that come together. Sothis week I'm just coming off of
a week of working for the firsttime ever, I was able to speak
at a society of human resourcemanagement conference. It was
(02:12):
the Kentucky version of Sherm,and I was able, for the first
time ever, one to attend, whichwas phenomenal. And secondly,
able to actually give a talk andthe dynamics between safety and
human resources, because I'vebeen attending safety
conferences for years and yearsand years, I've just recently
(02:33):
really started integratingmyself into HR, even though I've
had some HR experience in thepast, first time, I'm really
integrating myself and acceptingthe fact that I may be crossing
over, or bridging the gap, orhowever you want to call it,
light side, dark side, you know,wherever I'm aligning myself now
(02:55):
I'm becoming part of that andlearning more about the
concerns, The needs, thedifferences in the world of
human resources, in the world ofsafety, even though one
department of labor, two, it'sabout people. I'm continually
convinced, though, that safetyis the leading edge, that safety
even though HR, you got to getpeople paid, you got to do those
(03:17):
things beyond that, beyond theagain and and here we go. This
is Maslow's hierarchy. The firstthing you think about when you
think about human resources in avery basic term, again, I'm
speaking generally very basicis, how do we hire and how do we
pay people and make sure thatwe're doing the things we should
(03:37):
do to keep people employed andnot get in trouble. That is
Maslow's very basic thing, food,water, shelter. How do we meet
that basic physiological needthe next one's safety, and once
we establish that you're gettingpaid and you have a job, we
can't just skip to theengagement part. We can't just
(03:58):
skip to teamwork and reward andbenefit, there has to be an
essence of safety. And one ofthe items that I really
encountered when meeting withhuman resources people and being
there and seeing it and engagingis the office work of how much
is the safety of the office andthe psychological safety of an
(04:22):
office, and I'm going to get toit soon, I promise. But the new
story that grabbed my attentionwas one that got a lot of
attention in the past week. It'sunbelievable, but it shows here
we are. I'm going to make thepoint of safety and HR merging.
So Wells Fargo in Arizona, therewas an employee dead at their
(04:48):
cubicle for four days before theperson was found. And there's a
lot of excuses. Oh, they were onthe third floor. Kind of corner
cubicle out of the way, we justdidn't find. Um, this is
unbelievable, and I have so manyquestions of one, let's I'm
going to have to make someassumptions, because I've done a
(05:09):
lot of reading here, and I'm notfinding a lot of what I'm
looking for, but that's also alot of personal stuff that I
probably don't need to findonline. So that's good. I
wonder, though about the family,let's say I didn't come home
from my office for a night, andmy family didn't hear from me.
They'd be pinging my phone,they'd be calling people, they'd
(05:30):
be coming after me. They wouldbe looking for me, they would be
doing something it feels to me.
And here's just my assumption ofit is that, is it normal for
someone working at this company,at this area, to have to work
four straight days withoutcommunication to a family member
or a friend. Is that typicalthat you would be at work or
(05:53):
incommunicado for four wholedays? Is that the work
environment and what'sinteresting and sad at the same
time is some of the news storiesallude to that other people in
the office were said theysmelled to smell. Yeah, yeah,
I'm sure they did, but passed itoff as faulty plumbing. Now I
(06:19):
may take this a little too far,and I don't mean to, but I'm
going to say this the way thatI'm feeling it. The difference
between a bad sewer backup and adead body. There's a difference
in the smell, especially fourdays of just sitting, there's a
(06:40):
difference. How bad is this workenvironment that we're smelling
something terrible, consistentlyterrible in an office area, and
we don't say a word about it, wedon't complain about it, and we
don't look around to try to findthe source, what? What can not
(07:01):
to even be able to check on yourfellow employees. So here's
where I'm really scratching myhead. Is, is no one checking on
each other? Is like, is it forlike, Is this one of those
offices truly that you walk in,you go to your cubicle, because
(07:25):
we want you in the office forcollaboration. And I'll use air
quotes for that, because that'swhat we're trying to do to bring
people back to the offices, isthat it should be about
collaboration. And you'reputting them back in the office,
you're sending them in acubicle, and you're like, don't
you leave. Don't you talk topeople. Don't bother me. Don't
Don't worry us. Don't bothermanagement. Don't you do it. Do
(07:49):
your job. Get it done. Work fourdays straight, if you need to,
but you're going to get yourwork done. Is that what this is
about I'm curious, and this iswhere I'm really stuck on it,
and I'm kind of saddened. I'malso really angry about it. I've
worked in a big officeenvironment. I've been in
(08:13):
offices. Did I walk around andcheck on people? Sure did I have
occasionally people go, youknow, we shouldn't be social.
Social here. We should actuallyhave to, like, you should stay
in your cubicle and do work. I'mlike, Yeah, okay, great. No,
we're going to check on ifthere's a weird smell, and if,
again, for it to be a dead body.
(08:36):
This is a smell there. I can'tdescribe it. Can't begin to tell
you about it, but, but tobelieve that the faulty plumbing
again, like they must have had afaulty plumbing problem that
must have been absolutelyterrible, that must hardly ever
get fixed for them to keep goingand go plumbing. Man, don't tell
management. It's just theplumbing. They're not going to
(08:58):
fix it. Don't tell anyone thatwe're living in this horrible
smell, because it's just what itis. It's just what we have to
deal with every single day here,and we better not talk to each
other about the smell, becausewe'll be in trouble for that
too. Someone dies at a cubiclesits for four days not found
(09:18):
until there's basically asecurity check that finally,
finally walked around and sawsomeone unresponsive at a desk
and been four days. There's nodoubt they knew that it wasn't
just unresponsive, it was deadfour days. Yeah, no doubt they
(09:41):
they knew what they had walkedin on. And it was probably
scary. It was probably terrible.
I feel sorry for that securitypeople that had to do that, that
had to find it. This is sad.
This is the lack of humandignity that I can't believe
still exists. And yet here weare, when some of us keep.
Pushing and pushing for betterand better. This is what we
(10:03):
contend with. This is what we'rethis is what we're we're at
sometimes. Let's come back andtalk more about this people
issue. It's not a safety it'snot an HR, it's a people issue.
Let's talk more about that onthe second half of the leading
and learning through safetypodcast,
Stinger (10:22):
you are listening to the leading and learning through
safety podcast with Dr MarkFrench,
Commercial (10:31):
tsda Consulting, learn you lead others. The Myers
Briggs Type Indicator is anamazing tool. Problem is that it
can be easily misinterpreted. DrMark French is MBTI certified
and ready to help you discoveryour inner strengths. The MBTI
assessment can help with teambuilding, stress management,
(10:54):
communication, conflictmanagement, and so much more
individual and group sessionsare available to help you
discover what makes you great.
For more information, visit uson the web at tsda
consulting.com and
Mark French (11:10):
welcome back to the second half of the leading and
learning through safety podcast.
So this week, we're talkingabout the merger of people, the
the HR, the safety. It doesn'tmatter. It's about people, and
it's about caring about peoplein a real empathetic leadership
role. The perfect example thispast week was the Wells Fargo
(11:30):
employee not found for four daysafter passing away at their
desk. No one went to check onthem, they smelled a smell.
Thought it was faulty plumbing.
Didn't evidently, check onanything or walk around or talk
about it and let it ride.
Unbelievable. It's basic humandignity. This is where it hurts
(11:54):
those of us out there, trying todo the right thing in a
leadership role, trying to buildorganizations that are better,
trying to create goodleadership, trying to create
better cultures, trying to makea difference in people's lives
where we can there's a lot ofreally good, talented
(12:17):
professionals, and I have such apleasure of every time I get to
go to a conference of meeting somany of them and talking to them
and hearing experiences andseeing it in action when they
talk about what they're doingand their passion for what they
do. And yet, here's thebaseline, here's the bar that is
being set for organizations.
(12:43):
Well, you know, at least myworkplace checked on me when I
didn't leave on time, or atleast tried to do something.
That's where we're at is that,Hey, as long as you leave the
dead body for three days andyou're beating this
organization, you could havesomeone die at their desk for
three days and finally findthem, and you're doing better at
(13:09):
caring for your people than thisorganization did. That's
startling. It's sad, and it'shard to even fathom that when we
think about what we're trying todo in a progressive environment,
when we're trying to reallydrive real improvement, real
(13:31):
engagement, real meaningfulconversations, and I believe
they begin with safety, becausethis is a safety issue.
Fundamentally, it's a safetyissue of personal safety, of
well being, of mental health.
There is something here that hasthat component of safety. What
if a fire alarm was pulled?
(13:53):
Let's just go to emergencymanagement. Would they be able
to account for everyone? Wouldthey have any clue if everyone
exited that building and wassafe if there was a fire and
they had to evacuate, what kindof other protective measures?
There's no progression. There'sno dignity there. The the
(14:13):
Maslow's hierarchy of needs isat the very bottom rung. We're
not even trying to progress. Andthis is where I see that it
doesn't take as much safety inan environment like this, but it
takes some, and it begins withwell being, health and wellness
check just walking by andchecking on people occasionally,
(14:37):
seeing who's in their cubicle,seeing if they're there, seeing
if they're doing okay. There'sbeen times where I've been
walking around different areas,different locations, and you'll
see someone. Maybe they justneed someone to talk to at that
moment. And you can be thatperson. Maybe they really have a
medical issue. You you happen towalk in at the right time and
(14:58):
catch it, and. Do somethingabout it. That's fundamental.
And again, I keep using the wordhuman dignity, but I'm not sure
what other word would fit that,that we're watching out for each
other in some form or fashion,and this is not blaming the
coworkers. No, that is not whatI'm trying to do. I though look
(15:22):
at an organization, and I thinkabout what created the status of
an organization that let thathas this happen, where? How far
back does it go? What decisionswere made, what culture was
cultivated and created that ledto an event like this being
(15:45):
allowed to happen and notcorrected. Now I've heard
stories from other people, andit's usually stories of stories.
And I was working for a company,and they were kind of well known
to be a very brash company, likethey were well known to get up
in your face, yell at, tell youhow things are, and that's how
they made their name in theindustry. And there was a story
(16:08):
of one time of a corporate callthat was going on with the
general manager, and suddenlythe general manager was
unresponsive to the to the tothe rear end shoeing he was
receiving. And the guy hung upthe phone and called someone
else he knew in that office andsaid, Hey, so and so's not
responding to me anymore, as I'myelling at them for not doing a
good enough job. Go check onthem. And they found them dead
(16:31):
at their desk, even in thatenvironment, even though I think
the boss really just wanted tocontinue the yelling, they at
least had the trigger to gocheck on the person, and they
found them within minutes andnot even hours, but in this
case, days, those that and notthat. That was a great culture,
(16:56):
that was a rough culture to beproud of. Hey, yeah, I chewed
someone out so much they had aheart attack and died at their
desk. And that was that was kindof like the the story. Now,
again, it could have beenembellished, because I'm hearing
it down the line, like two orthree levels, but it became like
the legend of the organizationat the time, sad, not safety
(17:17):
conscious, from a standpoint ofjust caring about pushing people
to that level, but at leastthere was something that
happened because of it. And thisis where, when I was at the HR
conference, I really saw theimportance of how it's a
concerted effort of engagement,it's a concerted effort of
(17:39):
listening, it's a concertedeffort of feedback mechanisms of
that two way honest and opencommunication, which in this
case, we couldn't even openlyand honestly talk about the
smell, because we would just betold it was a sewage problem or
a pipe problem, even though thesmell is different, so odd, so
(18:02):
strange, and such a terriblething, but we every day that we
think about what we're doing,and I think from this
standpoint, I'm happy with whatI've met, of people who are
trying to push the limits ofeven what good means, rather
than looking at something likethis and going, Wow, let's hope
(18:26):
this doesn't happen around us.
Thanks for joining me on thisepisode of the leading and
learning through safety podcast.
Wow. What a story this week.
That just perfect culmination ofthings that I have been talking
about, thinking about andinvolved in, I appreciate you
taking that journey with Me, anduntil next time we chat, stay
(18:48):
safe. You.
Announcer (19:07):
Music. Thank you for listening to the leading and
learning through safety podcast.
More content is available onlineat www dot tsda consulting.com,
all the opinions expressed onthe podcast are solely
attributed to the individual andnot affiliated with any business
(19:28):
entity. This podcast is forinformational and entertainment
purposes. It is not a substitutefor proper policy, appropriate
training or legal advice you.
(20:00):
This has been the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
You.
This week on the podcast, we're continuing a
conversation about people ingeneral and that cross between
human resources and safety andhow it all is one big culture
that we have to cultivate theright way. This week on the
podcast,
Unknown (00:22):
you welcome
Announcer (00:36):
to the leading and learning through safety podcast.
Your host is Dr Mark French.
Mark's passion is helpingorganizations motivate their
teams. This podcast is focusedon bringing up the best in
leadership through creatingstrong values, learning
opportunities, teamwork andsafety. Nothing is more
(00:57):
important than protecting yourpeople safety creates an
environment for empathy,innovation and empowerment.
Together, we'll discover meaningand purpose through shaping our
safety culture. Thanks forjoining us this episode and now
here is Dr Mark French. You
Mark French (01:30):
French, hello and welcome to this episode of the
leading and learning throughsafety podcast. I am your host,
Dr Mark French, and I am sohappy that again, you have
joined me, that you are part ofthe podcast family. I'm always
humbled and honored to hear thatyou've chosen to download this
(01:52):
20 minute piece of leadership,safety, engagement, all those
things that come together. Sothis week I'm just coming off of
a week of working for the firsttime ever, I was able to speak
at a society of human resourcemanagement conference. It was
(02:12):
the Kentucky version of Sherm,and I was able, for the first
time ever, one to attend, whichwas phenomenal. And secondly,
able to actually give a talk andthe dynamics between safety and
human resources, because I'vebeen attending safety
conferences for years and yearsand years, I've just recently
(02:33):
really started integratingmyself into HR, even though I've
had some HR experience in thepast, first time, I'm really
integrating myself and acceptingthe fact that I may be crossing
over, or bridging the gap, orhowever you want to call it,
light side, dark side, you know,wherever I'm aligning myself now
(02:55):
I'm becoming part of that andlearning more about the
concerns, The needs, thedifferences in the world of
human resources, in the world ofsafety, even though one
department of labor, two, it'sabout people. I'm continually
convinced, though, that safetyis the leading edge, that safety
even though HR, you got to getpeople paid, you got to do those
(03:17):
things beyond that, beyond theagain and and here we go. This
is Maslow's hierarchy. The firstthing you think about when you
think about human resources in avery basic term, again, I'm
speaking generally very basicis, how do we hire and how do we
pay people and make sure thatwe're doing the things we should
(03:37):
do to keep people employed andnot get in trouble. That is
Maslow's very basic thing, food,water, shelter. How do we meet
that basic physiological needthe next one's safety, and once
we establish that you're gettingpaid and you have a job, we
can't just skip to theengagement part. We can't just
(03:58):
skip to teamwork and reward andbenefit, there has to be an
essence of safety. And one ofthe items that I really
encountered when meeting withhuman resources people and being
there and seeing it and engagingis the office work of how much
is the safety of the office andthe psychological safety of an
(04:22):
office, and I'm going to get toit soon, I promise. But the new
story that grabbed my attentionwas one that got a lot of
attention in the past week. It'sunbelievable, but it shows here
we are. I'm going to make thepoint of safety and HR merging.
So Wells Fargo in Arizona, therewas an employee dead at their
(04:48):
cubicle for four days before theperson was found. And there's a
lot of excuses. Oh, they were onthe third floor. Kind of corner
cubicle out of the way, we justdidn't find. Um, this is
unbelievable, and I have so manyquestions of one, let's I'm
going to have to make someassumptions, because I've done a
(05:09):
lot of reading here, and I'm notfinding a lot of what I'm
looking for, but that's also alot of personal stuff that I
probably don't need to findonline. So that's good. I
wonder, though about the family,let's say I didn't come home
from my office for a night, andmy family didn't hear from me.
They'd be pinging my phone,they'd be calling people, they'd
(05:30):
be coming after me. They wouldbe looking for me, they would be
doing something it feels to me.
And here's just my assumption ofit is that, is it normal for
someone working at this company,at this area, to have to work
four straight days withoutcommunication to a family member
or a friend. Is that typicalthat you would be at work or
(05:53):
incommunicado for four wholedays? Is that the work
environment and what'sinteresting and sad at the same
time is some of the news storiesallude to that other people in
the office were said theysmelled to smell. Yeah, yeah,
I'm sure they did, but passed itoff as faulty plumbing. Now I
(06:19):
may take this a little too far,and I don't mean to, but I'm
going to say this the way thatI'm feeling it. The difference
between a bad sewer backup and adead body. There's a difference
in the smell, especially fourdays of just sitting, there's a
(06:40):
difference. How bad is this workenvironment that we're smelling
something terrible, consistentlyterrible in an office area, and
we don't say a word about it, wedon't complain about it, and we
don't look around to try to findthe source, what? What can not
(07:01):
to even be able to check on yourfellow employees. So here's
where I'm really scratching myhead. Is, is no one checking on
each other? Is like, is it forlike, Is this one of those
offices truly that you walk in,you go to your cubicle, because
(07:25):
we want you in the office forcollaboration. And I'll use air
quotes for that, because that'swhat we're trying to do to bring
people back to the offices, isthat it should be about
collaboration. And you'reputting them back in the office,
you're sending them in acubicle, and you're like, don't
you leave. Don't you talk topeople. Don't bother me. Don't
Don't worry us. Don't bothermanagement. Don't you do it. Do
(07:49):
your job. Get it done. Work fourdays straight, if you need to,
but you're going to get yourwork done. Is that what this is
about I'm curious, and this iswhere I'm really stuck on it,
and I'm kind of saddened. I'malso really angry about it. I've
worked in a big officeenvironment. I've been in
(08:13):
offices. Did I walk around andcheck on people? Sure did I have
occasionally people go, youknow, we shouldn't be social.
Social here. We should actuallyhave to, like, you should stay
in your cubicle and do work. I'mlike, Yeah, okay, great. No,
we're going to check on ifthere's a weird smell, and if,
again, for it to be a dead body.
(08:36):
This is a smell there. I can'tdescribe it. Can't begin to tell
you about it, but, but tobelieve that the faulty plumbing
again, like they must have had afaulty plumbing problem that
must have been absolutelyterrible, that must hardly ever
get fixed for them to keep goingand go plumbing. Man, don't tell
management. It's just theplumbing. They're not going to
(08:58):
fix it. Don't tell anyone thatwe're living in this horrible
smell, because it's just what itis. It's just what we have to
deal with every single day here,and we better not talk to each
other about the smell, becausewe'll be in trouble for that
too. Someone dies at a cubiclesits for four days not found
(09:18):
until there's basically asecurity check that finally,
finally walked around and sawsomeone unresponsive at a desk
and been four days. There's nodoubt they knew that it wasn't
just unresponsive, it was deadfour days. Yeah, no doubt they
(09:41):
they knew what they had walkedin on. And it was probably
scary. It was probably terrible.
I feel sorry for that securitypeople that had to do that, that
had to find it. This is sad.
This is the lack of humandignity that I can't believe
still exists. And yet here weare, when some of us keep.
Pushing and pushing for betterand better. This is what we
(10:03):
contend with. This is what we'rethis is what we're we're at
sometimes. Let's come back andtalk more about this people
issue. It's not a safety it'snot an HR, it's a people issue.
Let's talk more about that onthe second half of the leading
and learning through safetypodcast,
Stinger (10:22):
you are listening to the leading and learning through
safety podcast with Dr MarkFrench,
Commercial (10:31):
tsda Consulting, learn you lead others. The Myers
Briggs Type Indicator is anamazing tool. Problem is that it
can be easily misinterpreted. DrMark French is MBTI certified
and ready to help you discoveryour inner strengths. The MBTI
assessment can help with teambuilding, stress management,
(10:54):
communication, conflictmanagement, and so much more
individual and group sessionsare available to help you
discover what makes you great.
For more information, visit uson the web at tsda
consulting.com and
Mark French (11:10):
welcome back to the second half of the leading and
learning through safety podcast.
So this week, we're talkingabout the merger of people, the
the HR, the safety. It doesn'tmatter. It's about people, and
it's about caring about peoplein a real empathetic leadership
role. The perfect example thispast week was the Wells Fargo
(11:30):
employee not found for four daysafter passing away at their
desk. No one went to check onthem, they smelled a smell.
Thought it was faulty plumbing.
Didn't evidently, check onanything or walk around or talk
about it and let it ride.
Unbelievable. It's basic humandignity. This is where it hurts
(11:54):
those of us out there, trying todo the right thing in a
leadership role, trying to buildorganizations that are better,
trying to create goodleadership, trying to create
better cultures, trying to makea difference in people's lives
where we can there's a lot ofreally good, talented
(12:17):
professionals, and I have such apleasure of every time I get to
go to a conference of meeting somany of them and talking to them
and hearing experiences andseeing it in action when they
talk about what they're doingand their passion for what they
do. And yet, here's thebaseline, here's the bar that is
being set for organizations.
(12:43):
Well, you know, at least myworkplace checked on me when I
didn't leave on time, or atleast tried to do something.
That's where we're at is that,Hey, as long as you leave the
dead body for three days andyou're beating this
organization, you could havesomeone die at their desk for
three days and finally findthem, and you're doing better at
(13:09):
caring for your people than thisorganization did. That's
startling. It's sad, and it'shard to even fathom that when we
think about what we're trying todo in a progressive environment,
when we're trying to reallydrive real improvement, real
(13:31):
engagement, real meaningfulconversations, and I believe
they begin with safety, becausethis is a safety issue.
Fundamentally, it's a safetyissue of personal safety, of
well being, of mental health.
There is something here that hasthat component of safety. What
if a fire alarm was pulled?
(13:53):
Let's just go to emergencymanagement. Would they be able
to account for everyone? Wouldthey have any clue if everyone
exited that building and wassafe if there was a fire and
they had to evacuate, what kindof other protective measures?
There's no progression. There'sno dignity there. The the
(14:13):
Maslow's hierarchy of needs isat the very bottom rung. We're
not even trying to progress. Andthis is where I see that it
doesn't take as much safety inan environment like this, but it
takes some, and it begins withwell being, health and wellness
check just walking by andchecking on people occasionally,
(14:37):
seeing who's in their cubicle,seeing if they're there, seeing
if they're doing okay. There'sbeen times where I've been
walking around different areas,different locations, and you'll
see someone. Maybe they justneed someone to talk to at that
moment. And you can be thatperson. Maybe they really have a
medical issue. You you happen towalk in at the right time and
(14:58):
catch it, and. Do somethingabout it. That's fundamental.
And again, I keep using the wordhuman dignity, but I'm not sure
what other word would fit that,that we're watching out for each
other in some form or fashion,and this is not blaming the
coworkers. No, that is not whatI'm trying to do. I though look
(15:22):
at an organization, and I thinkabout what created the status of
an organization that let thathas this happen, where? How far
back does it go? What decisionswere made, what culture was
cultivated and created that ledto an event like this being
(15:45):
allowed to happen and notcorrected. Now I've heard
stories from other people, andit's usually stories of stories.
And I was working for a company,and they were kind of well known
to be a very brash company, likethey were well known to get up
in your face, yell at, tell youhow things are, and that's how
they made their name in theindustry. And there was a story
(16:08):
of one time of a corporate callthat was going on with the
general manager, and suddenlythe general manager was
unresponsive to the to the tothe rear end shoeing he was
receiving. And the guy hung upthe phone and called someone
else he knew in that office andsaid, Hey, so and so's not
responding to me anymore, as I'myelling at them for not doing a
good enough job. Go check onthem. And they found them dead
(16:31):
at their desk, even in thatenvironment, even though I think
the boss really just wanted tocontinue the yelling, they at
least had the trigger to gocheck on the person, and they
found them within minutes andnot even hours, but in this
case, days, those that and notthat. That was a great culture,
(16:56):
that was a rough culture to beproud of. Hey, yeah, I chewed
someone out so much they had aheart attack and died at their
desk. And that was that was kindof like the the story. Now,
again, it could have beenembellished, because I'm hearing
it down the line, like two orthree levels, but it became like
the legend of the organizationat the time, sad, not safety
(17:17):
conscious, from a standpoint ofjust caring about pushing people
to that level, but at leastthere was something that
happened because of it. And thisis where, when I was at the HR
conference, I really saw theimportance of how it's a
concerted effort of engagement,it's a concerted effort of
(17:39):
listening, it's a concertedeffort of feedback mechanisms of
that two way honest and opencommunication, which in this
case, we couldn't even openlyand honestly talk about the
smell, because we would just betold it was a sewage problem or
a pipe problem, even though thesmell is different, so odd, so
(18:02):
strange, and such a terriblething, but we every day that we
think about what we're doing,and I think from this
standpoint, I'm happy with whatI've met, of people who are
trying to push the limits ofeven what good means, rather
than looking at something likethis and going, Wow, let's hope
(18:26):
this doesn't happen around us.
Thanks for joining me on thisepisode of the leading and
learning through safety podcast.
Wow. What a story this week.
That just perfect culmination ofthings that I have been talking
about, thinking about andinvolved in, I appreciate you
taking that journey with Me, anduntil next time we chat, stay
(18:48):
safe. You.
Announcer (19:07):
Music. Thank you for listening to the leading and
learning through safety podcast.
More content is available onlineat www dot tsda consulting.com,
all the opinions expressed onthe podcast are solely
attributed to the individual andnot affiliated with any business
(19:28):
entity. This podcast is forinformational and entertainment
purposes. It is not a substitutefor proper policy, appropriate
training or legal advice you.
(20:00):
This has been the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
You.
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