May 2, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode of the Leading and Learning Through Safety podcast, Dr. Mark French explores the critical role of listening in leadership, particularly within safety-focused environments. The episode opens with a reflection on how genuine listening is often overlooked yet essential to inclusive and effective leadership. Dr. French emphasizes that active listening fosters open communication, trust, and ultimately, safer workplaces.
He shares a personal story about his child’s long-standing eye issues, which were finally addressed when a provider truly listened—leading to a proper diagnosis and treatment. This moment sparked deeper reflection on how often concerns are voiced but dismissed or inadequately addressed, especially in professional settings. He recounts a safety leadership debrief where communication gaps became apparent, reinforcing the idea that hearing without action is not truly listening.
French discusses a tragic incident where a worker voiced feeling unsafe, only to be ignored by a supervisor—resulting in a fatality. This example underscores the moral and operational importance of responsive listening in safety leadership.
He introduces the concept of "closing the communication loop," where leaders acknowledge concerns, clarify understanding, and take visible action—even if the outcome isn’t perfect. Through humorous and humble examples, he illustrates both successful and failed listening efforts from his own career.
The episode concludes with a call to action: leaders must intentionally listen without bias, verify understanding, and engage meaningfully. True leadership begins with making others feel heard and safe, creating a foundation for trust and organizational growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
This week on the leading and learning through
safety podcast, we're going totalk about listening both the
art and the science, and howimportant it is for us as
leaders in the Lost methods thatdon't seem to be there as often
as it should be. This week onthe podcast.
(00:36):
Welcome to the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
Your host is Dr Mark French.
Mark's passion is helpingorganizations motivate their
teams. This podcast is focusedon bringing out the best in
leadership through creatingstrong values, learning
opportunities, teamwork andsafety. Nothing is more
(00:58):
important than protecting yourpeople. Safety creates an
environment for empathy,innovation and empowerment.
Together, we'll discover meaningand purpose through shaping our
safety culture. Thanks forjoining us this episode, and now
here is Dr Mark French,hello and welcome to this
(01:33):
episode of the leading andlearning through safety Podcast.
So happy you've joined me.
Welcome again. I'm always sothrilled to know I'm part of
your podcast rotation. So thankyou.
This is one of my great,wonderful hobbies, that this is
(01:53):
so much fun. I love it. I'm justtalking, and we're having a
great time together, and it'sall good times this week. What's
interesting is that you'relistening to a podcast, and I'm
going to talk about listening,the psychology behind it, the
methodology, the reasons it's socritical, and it appears to be
(02:16):
so lost in so many ways. And Ithink it's there's a lot of
reasons why. I want to talkabout a few of those reasons
why, and that's what we're goingto explore. Because, to me, that
is the first step of reallyinclusive, strong leadership, is
(02:37):
the ability to listen, theability to hear what's actually
being said and respondappropriately to it. And now
there's a lot to that. We're notgoing to unpack nearly
everything we need to in that,but we're going to try. We're
going to unpack as much as wecan in this wonderful time that
we have together. What broughtthis on? Why did I start
(03:00):
thinking about listening. Well,I was in part of a safety
leadership kind of debrief, andof course, my theory has been, I
think there's a lot of sciencethat can support it, is that
good leadership is good safety.
And I hear that from otherpeople, and I've seen it, and
I've seen it work, and I've readresearch articles on it, that if
you want to really startbuilding strong leadership,
(03:23):
start with safety. It's a moralimperative. Everybody should
care. It's an easy in and itcreates so many other
opportunities for goodleadership if you do safety
right. And one of the firstfundamentals that I see that
gets missed is good listening isactually hearing what's being
said and taking the time to hearwhat is being said. Now,
(03:49):
actually, it was a personal itemthat made me think and
appreciate more and more goodlistening. And I'm I'll be
honest, I'm gonna put that outthere. First of all, I am, I'm
good. I could be a lot better atlistening and focusing. And I
think about the I think aboutMr. Rogers, and I think about
(04:14):
listening and the importance ofthat communication. And there
was, I'm gonna butcher this, buthe was talking to someone. They
asked something along the linesof, who's most important to you
right now? And it was somethingalong the lines of, you are
because me and you are havingthe interaction right now. So
you're the most important thingin my world at this moment,
because me and you are havingthat connection.
(04:37):
Yes, it should feel that way, itshould feel that when you're
having that small group, thatone on one, that they are
important, that we all areimportant, that our voices are
being heard, that we are beingseen for who we are and what
we're trying to accomplish inthis time, in this moment. And
(04:57):
so now I'm going to go back andtell the.
Story I keep missing that, don'ti?
So this week, my child had aneye appointment. They had been
having some trouble with theireyes for quite some time, and
they've been trying to explainit to other people, that there's
double vision, that there'sissues, that there's an
optometrist after optometrist,or like, I use any glasses or
(05:19):
empty glasses or check youreyes. We're gonna do this and
just boom, boom, boom, boom,you're out. Bang, here's your
glasses. Move on. Move on withyour life.
And the issues continued andcontinued, and we finally found
one that I liked. I had to getmy first pair of glasses this
past year, and I really likedthe people I went to, so when
(05:41):
they were eligible for theirnext appointment,
we took them there, because Itried some new people, and I
felt like they were they took alot of time, more time than I
expected them to take with me,which was really nice. My first
time. I didn't like okay,they were heard. They asked good
questions. I wasn't there. Iheard the story through my wife
(06:03):
and my child of just how good itwas, of how good it was that
someone took a little bit ofextra time to hear and to
listen. And you know whathappened? They needed prisms
instead of regular lenses. Now,whatever that is, but it's
supposed to help with all thesymptoms, the way that things
are happening. And of course,being my child, the funniest
(06:24):
thing they dead panned when theywere asked, Do you wear your
glasses all the time? And ofcourse, they answered, except
when I sleep.
Oh, man, it runs strong and withthe with the genetics here,
doesn't it? When do you not wearyour glasses? Well, I'll wear
them all the time, unless I'msleeping, and then I don't
(06:44):
really need them anymore.
Anyway. What was so important?
There? It was a listening. Nowthere's been some other things,
personally and that we've hadsome trouble with, with
different communities, medicaland such, of just not hearing
and during this week, of gettinga debrief on some leadership
surveys and data that was comingback to us, what I realized is
(07:07):
what we were trying to transformfirst is listening open
communication channels.
Effective. Open communicationchannels. It's one thing to
allow communication to flow.
That's a great start. It'sflowing. Great. What are you
doing with it? And I even founda couple of examples that kind
(07:28):
of embarrassed me when they weretalking about, hey, we hear
people talking about when we askthem, What is the thing that you
worry about the most? And theyname something, and I go, I
don't that's not a traditionalsafety thing that I that's not
lockout, that's not trafficcontrol, that's not needing
guarding that in and so I kindof hesitated when I heard it,
(07:49):
and I Not that I ever forgot it,but I didn't act and and I
didn't really think, I wasn'treally sure even how to act. So
it's probably why, because Ididn't know what to do in that
situation, or or what remedy Icould offer,
and what did I really hear it ifI didn't acknowledge and then
(08:12):
maybe try something, or eveneven close a loop of going, I'm
not sure I know what to do. Doyou have any ideas? Instead, I
accepted the information, Ilogged the information, and
basically moved on. I heard,that's not bad, at least I heard
I didn't completely ignore it,but it didn't close that
(08:33):
communication loop. And so isthat really effective listening
if I didn't register it, if Ididn't do something with it like
I should.
And so here we are. I'm talkingabout listening. I'm talking
about hearing and what itmatters for good leadership, and
how many times we don't see itin safety. And I go back to the
one example from months ago of afatality, of where a worker was
(08:56):
in a trench, came out of thetrench, told the supervisor he
felt unsafe. Supervisor said,it's fine, get back in there,
and then it collapsed and killedthe worker.
Now that that feels criminal forone but
do you think that anyone hasheard there that there's any
communication, or is itfundamentally, absolutely
(09:18):
broken? It is ineffective andit's broken. And that is not
leadershipthat is not even close to what
leadership should be. And itbegins with listening. What is
it that is happening in thisorganization that is working,
that is not working, and how dowe address it now? Not
everything is going to beaddressed. I will be perfectly
(09:41):
honest. Sometimes there iscommunication that comes to me
that I do everything I can notto roll my eyes and let my
eyebrows crawl up into myhairline where I'm like, what?
There's no way we can do that,and we're not going to do that.
It. And even now in HR, it eventakes it further, like in
(10:03):
safety, I remember, Hey, Mark,the the toilet paper problem, or
theany, take your pick, it was a
safety issue, and we had to fixit. HR, it expands. I didn't
think that was possible, but itdoes, and it expands. But we
listen and we how do we showthat we've heard that is the
key. How do we demonstrate thatI have heard your concern and
(10:25):
either A, I'm going to dosomething, or B, I'm not. I'm
going to close this and move on.
Let's talk about the action thatcomes from hearing, and some
tips and tricks on betterlistening, on the second half of
the leading and learning throughsafety podcast
(10:45):
dsda Consulting, learn you leadothers. The Myers Briggs Type
Indicator is an amazing tool.
Problem is that it can be easilymisinterpreted. Dr Mark French
is MBTI certified and ready tohelp you discover your inner
strengths. The MBTI assessmentcan help with team building,
stress management,communication, conflict
(11:07):
management, and so much more,individual and group sessions
are available to help youdiscover what makes you great.
For more information, visit uson the web, at tsda
consulting.comat you are listening to
the leading and learning throughsafety podcast with Dr Mark
(11:30):
French, and here we are at thesecond half already in the
second half of the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
This week, we're talking aboutlistening and actively
listening, taking the time totake the message, written,
verbal,anything, however communication
will come, taking it and beingable to do something with it
(11:51):
actively. When information isconveyed, we may make some
assumptions based on our own.
Whatever is happening in ourday, whatever has been going on
will affect the message we hear,unless it's exceptionally,
exceptionally clear. We'll putsome bias on that. We'll put our
own spin on it. Where is thiscoming from? Maybe they're
(12:12):
having same things. Maybethere's something happening when
someone comes to us. I'll use avery simple safety example.
Maybe there need some differentPPE. And what we hear is, I need
PPE, so you give them the sameold PPE that we've always given.
Here's your safety glasses.
Well, what they're trying totell you is, maybe they're
foggy, maybe they don't fit.
(12:33):
Maybe there's an issue with thatstyle. Maybe they need over
glasses, something else could bethere and again. Simple example,
if we're already making ourdecisions for already having
that bias in our listening, wewill react quickly. And we see
this in a lot of places where wetry to find the simplest answer,
(12:55):
the quickest answer, to get itgoing and to move on,
and in this case, repeating, orwhen you hear it coming back and
going, what I'm hearing is thatyou need new PPE, and the
person may go, no, no, that'snot what I'm saying. What I'm
saying is what I have isn'tworking, or what I have is is
(13:17):
not good for me, or what I havecould be different
by acknowledging that I hearwhat you're saying. What I am
hearing you say is that you justneed PPE, when the truth is,
when you repeat it and you go,here's what I'm about to try to
fix for you,you repeat it, and the person
goes, No, what I'm reallyneeding is that. And he Oh,
(13:39):
okay, now we understand. Youknow what? That's active
listening. I hear your concern.
I hear that you are not happyabout that.
So I'll give you a great examplefrom back in my food days,
working at a facility, and I hada group of ladies come into my
(14:02):
office, and I could see theywere very, very agitated. And
basically what was happening isthey had an really old couch in
the bathroom that they could siton during, I guess, if they
needed a break, if they neededto rest, they could go off into
the bathroom and sit on thiscouch.
We sanitation was getting rid ofit, and they were not happy
(14:23):
about their resting couch justdisappearing. And I could have
i One was stunned, but the goodnews is I listened because I
didn't know what else to dowhen all else fails. Nod your
head and listen and really keeplistening and taking it in to
feed me to figure at least toget you some time to figure out
(14:45):
what you should do about it. SoI asked questions. Why was it
there? When did it show up? Whyare they telling you that it's
leaving? And I would recap that,so you're telling me that
they're saying it's a sanitationhazard. You're telling me that
it's you.
Old and needs to be gettingrotten rid of you're saying that
you need a place to rest. Andyou're saying you need these
(15:06):
things. Is that, what am Ihearing you correctly, that
you're unhappy because of thesethings. They're happening
because of this event sequence.
And then what you're reallywanting, like, what do you want
is somewhere to sit comfortablyand rest? And I don't think I
solved it. I'm almost certain Ididn't solve it to what they
(15:27):
wanted, because they wantedtheir couch or a new couch, and
what they ended up with was alittle bit more comfortable
break room chairs. Because Iexplained. I said, you know,
there's, not really, as a safetymanager, there's not much I can
do there. There's really not alaw or guidance or a policy or
even a best practice. Actually,I said that sounds kind of
(15:50):
rough, that we don't really wantyou sitting on this old, dirty
couch in a food plant, andhonestly, I don't think it's
approved, and I'd be worriedwhat if it broke. I don't want
you to get hurt while you're onthis thing, and so
we still got rid of it, and Idon't think they were happy.
What I did do was try to findsome better break room and some
betterjust places for them to read.
(16:14):
Make sure it was Is it too hot,too cold? What would give it
more comfort, so that you wouldhave a better place to do that,
rather than on that couch in thebathroom.
And not, not that it was, it wascertainly not to there, but it
was the closing of the loop thatI at least felt that I had done
(16:36):
well. And it's one of the theseare one of the few examples I
can give where I actually didthis the right way. I actually
listened, recapped, took action,so I got a winning example. I
can also cite so many that Ilook back on and go, you know, I
didn't hear that right, and Ididn't do that right, and I
didn't evendidn't put the time I should
(16:58):
have to it. But in this case,it's an example of where I knew
I couldn't do anything. Therewas they were, in my opinion,
and I think in the opinion ofthe company, in an opinion of a
lot of things, they weren'tgoing to win that one, it was
not they, they were not in theright there.
But there were other things wecould do based on what is it
that made that special and andof course, there was a little
(17:20):
bit of the like, it was a placeto go and kind of hide, if you
could step off and away for alittle bit. But we didn't dress
that. I didn't go there.
What is it about listening thatmakes it so powerful is the fact
that you you've met the personwhere they are and safety is, is
absolutely the best way to begetting what what else makes
(17:42):
such a powerful statement inanyone's life. Then I hear you
about the ways that you can gethurt. I hear you about the
things that you need to make youfeel safe in this workplace. And
I am going to do something. I amgoing to take an action because
of what you have said. I havemet you in this place of
(18:04):
vulnerability. I have met youwhere you're standing, where you
were most vulnerable and willingto say something.
And it sends a message, if I donothing, why bring it forward?
If I actually do something, oractually respond and hear them
where they are and meet themwhere they are. They will meet
(18:25):
me there again, and we will haveconversations. We will learn
about our organization, andultimately, we will improve our
organization. And if we improvecommunication, we learn about
the very roots of safety in ourculture, and we're able to
address them at the veryfundamental point of where they
happen in the organization. It'sso important that we take the
(18:48):
time to truly hear, to trulylisten. And so when people come
to us and they start talking tous, take the time physically
focus. Turn the other thingsoff, look, listen, recap, be
able to engage, and these aretips I'm taking with me too. So
(19:08):
for listening to the leading andlearning through safety podcast,
more content is available onlineat www dot tsda consulting.com,
all the opinions expressed onthe podcast are solely
attributed to the individual andnot affiliated with any business
(19:30):
entity. This podcast is forinformational and entertainment
purposes. It is not a substitutefor proper policy, appropriate
training or legal advice you.
(20:00):
This has been the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
You.
This week on the leading and learning through
safety podcast, we're going totalk about listening both the
art and the science, and howimportant it is for us as
leaders in the Lost methods thatdon't seem to be there as often
as it should be. This week onthe podcast.
(00:36):
Welcome to the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
Your host is Dr Mark French.
Mark's passion is helpingorganizations motivate their
teams. This podcast is focusedon bringing out the best in
leadership through creatingstrong values, learning
opportunities, teamwork andsafety. Nothing is more
(00:58):
important than protecting yourpeople. Safety creates an
environment for empathy,innovation and empowerment.
Together, we'll discover meaningand purpose through shaping our
safety culture. Thanks forjoining us this episode, and now
here is Dr Mark French,hello and welcome to this
(01:33):
episode of the leading andlearning through safety Podcast.
So happy you've joined me.
Welcome again. I'm always sothrilled to know I'm part of
your podcast rotation. So thankyou.
This is one of my great,wonderful hobbies, that this is
(01:53):
so much fun. I love it. I'm justtalking, and we're having a
great time together, and it'sall good times this week. What's
interesting is that you'relistening to a podcast, and I'm
going to talk about listening,the psychology behind it, the
methodology, the reasons it's socritical, and it appears to be
(02:16):
so lost in so many ways. And Ithink it's there's a lot of
reasons why. I want to talkabout a few of those reasons
why, and that's what we're goingto explore. Because, to me, that
is the first step of reallyinclusive, strong leadership, is
(02:37):
the ability to listen, theability to hear what's actually
being said and respondappropriately to it. And now
there's a lot to that. We're notgoing to unpack nearly
everything we need to in that,but we're going to try. We're
going to unpack as much as wecan in this wonderful time that
we have together. What broughtthis on? Why did I start
(03:00):
thinking about listening. Well,I was in part of a safety
leadership kind of debrief, andof course, my theory has been, I
think there's a lot of sciencethat can support it, is that
good leadership is good safety.
And I hear that from otherpeople, and I've seen it, and
I've seen it work, and I've readresearch articles on it, that if
you want to really startbuilding strong leadership,
(03:23):
start with safety. It's a moralimperative. Everybody should
care. It's an easy in and itcreates so many other
opportunities for goodleadership if you do safety
right. And one of the firstfundamentals that I see that
gets missed is good listening isactually hearing what's being
said and taking the time to hearwhat is being said. Now,
(03:49):
actually, it was a personal itemthat made me think and
appreciate more and more goodlistening. And I'm I'll be
honest, I'm gonna put that outthere. First of all, I am, I'm
good. I could be a lot better atlistening and focusing. And I
think about the I think aboutMr. Rogers, and I think about
(04:14):
listening and the importance ofthat communication. And there
was, I'm gonna butcher this, buthe was talking to someone. They
asked something along the linesof, who's most important to you
right now? And it was somethingalong the lines of, you are
because me and you are havingthe interaction right now. So
you're the most important thingin my world at this moment,
because me and you are havingthat connection.
(04:37):
Yes, it should feel that way, itshould feel that when you're
having that small group, thatone on one, that they are
important, that we all areimportant, that our voices are
being heard, that we are beingseen for who we are and what
we're trying to accomplish inthis time, in this moment. And
(04:57):
so now I'm going to go back andtell the.
Story I keep missing that, don'ti?
So this week, my child had aneye appointment. They had been
having some trouble with theireyes for quite some time, and
they've been trying to explainit to other people, that there's
double vision, that there'sissues, that there's an
optometrist after optometrist,or like, I use any glasses or
(05:19):
empty glasses or check youreyes. We're gonna do this and
just boom, boom, boom, boom,you're out. Bang, here's your
glasses. Move on. Move on withyour life.
And the issues continued andcontinued, and we finally found
one that I liked. I had to getmy first pair of glasses this
past year, and I really likedthe people I went to, so when
(05:41):
they were eligible for theirnext appointment,
we took them there, because Itried some new people, and I
felt like they were they took alot of time, more time than I
expected them to take with me,which was really nice. My first
time. I didn't like okay,they were heard. They asked good
questions. I wasn't there. Iheard the story through my wife
(06:03):
and my child of just how good itwas, of how good it was that
someone took a little bit ofextra time to hear and to
listen. And you know whathappened? They needed prisms
instead of regular lenses. Now,whatever that is, but it's
supposed to help with all thesymptoms, the way that things
are happening. And of course,being my child, the funniest
(06:24):
thing they dead panned when theywere asked, Do you wear your
glasses all the time? And ofcourse, they answered, except
when I sleep.
Oh, man, it runs strong and withthe with the genetics here,
doesn't it? When do you not wearyour glasses? Well, I'll wear
them all the time, unless I'msleeping, and then I don't
(06:44):
really need them anymore.
Anyway. What was so important?
There? It was a listening. Nowthere's been some other things,
personally and that we've hadsome trouble with, with
different communities, medicaland such, of just not hearing
and during this week, of gettinga debrief on some leadership
surveys and data that was comingback to us, what I realized is
(07:07):
what we were trying to transformfirst is listening open
communication channels.
Effective. Open communicationchannels. It's one thing to
allow communication to flow.
That's a great start. It'sflowing. Great. What are you
doing with it? And I even founda couple of examples that kind
(07:28):
of embarrassed me when they weretalking about, hey, we hear
people talking about when we askthem, What is the thing that you
worry about the most? And theyname something, and I go, I
don't that's not a traditionalsafety thing that I that's not
lockout, that's not trafficcontrol, that's not needing
guarding that in and so I kindof hesitated when I heard it,
(07:49):
and I Not that I ever forgot it,but I didn't act and and I
didn't really think, I wasn'treally sure even how to act. So
it's probably why, because Ididn't know what to do in that
situation, or or what remedy Icould offer,
and what did I really hear it ifI didn't acknowledge and then
(08:12):
maybe try something, or eveneven close a loop of going, I'm
not sure I know what to do. Doyou have any ideas? Instead, I
accepted the information, Ilogged the information, and
basically moved on. I heard,that's not bad, at least I heard
I didn't completely ignore it,but it didn't close that
(08:33):
communication loop. And so isthat really effective listening
if I didn't register it, if Ididn't do something with it like
I should.
And so here we are. I'm talkingabout listening. I'm talking
about hearing and what itmatters for good leadership, and
how many times we don't see itin safety. And I go back to the
one example from months ago of afatality, of where a worker was
(08:56):
in a trench, came out of thetrench, told the supervisor he
felt unsafe. Supervisor said,it's fine, get back in there,
and then it collapsed and killedthe worker.
Now that that feels criminal forone but
do you think that anyone hasheard there that there's any
communication, or is itfundamentally, absolutely
(09:18):
broken? It is ineffective andit's broken. And that is not
leadershipthat is not even close to what
leadership should be. And itbegins with listening. What is
it that is happening in thisorganization that is working,
that is not working, and how dowe address it now? Not
everything is going to beaddressed. I will be perfectly
(09:41):
honest. Sometimes there iscommunication that comes to me
that I do everything I can notto roll my eyes and let my
eyebrows crawl up into myhairline where I'm like, what?
There's no way we can do that,and we're not going to do that.
It. And even now in HR, it eventakes it further, like in
(10:03):
safety, I remember, Hey, Mark,the the toilet paper problem, or
theany, take your pick, it was a
safety issue, and we had to fixit. HR, it expands. I didn't
think that was possible, but itdoes, and it expands. But we
listen and we how do we showthat we've heard that is the
key. How do we demonstrate thatI have heard your concern and
(10:25):
either A, I'm going to dosomething, or B, I'm not. I'm
going to close this and move on.
Let's talk about the action thatcomes from hearing, and some
tips and tricks on betterlistening, on the second half of
the leading and learning throughsafety podcast
(10:45):
dsda Consulting, learn you leadothers. The Myers Briggs Type
Indicator is an amazing tool.
Problem is that it can be easilymisinterpreted. Dr Mark French
is MBTI certified and ready tohelp you discover your inner
strengths. The MBTI assessmentcan help with team building,
stress management,communication, conflict
(11:07):
management, and so much more,individual and group sessions
are available to help youdiscover what makes you great.
For more information, visit uson the web, at tsda
consulting.comat you are listening to
the leading and learning throughsafety podcast with Dr Mark
(11:30):
French, and here we are at thesecond half already in the
second half of the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
This week, we're talking aboutlistening and actively
listening, taking the time totake the message, written,
verbal,anything, however communication
will come, taking it and beingable to do something with it
(11:51):
actively. When information isconveyed, we may make some
assumptions based on our own.
Whatever is happening in ourday, whatever has been going on
will affect the message we hear,unless it's exceptionally,
exceptionally clear. We'll putsome bias on that. We'll put our
own spin on it. Where is thiscoming from? Maybe they're
(12:12):
having same things. Maybethere's something happening when
someone comes to us. I'll use avery simple safety example.
Maybe there need some differentPPE. And what we hear is, I need
PPE, so you give them the sameold PPE that we've always given.
Here's your safety glasses.
Well, what they're trying totell you is, maybe they're
foggy, maybe they don't fit.
(12:33):
Maybe there's an issue with thatstyle. Maybe they need over
glasses, something else could bethere and again. Simple example,
if we're already making ourdecisions for already having
that bias in our listening, wewill react quickly. And we see
this in a lot of places where wetry to find the simplest answer,
(12:55):
the quickest answer, to get itgoing and to move on,
and in this case, repeating, orwhen you hear it coming back and
going, what I'm hearing is thatyou need new PPE, and the
person may go, no, no, that'snot what I'm saying. What I'm
saying is what I have isn'tworking, or what I have is is
(13:17):
not good for me, or what I havecould be different
by acknowledging that I hearwhat you're saying. What I am
hearing you say is that you justneed PPE, when the truth is,
when you repeat it and you go,here's what I'm about to try to
fix for you,you repeat it, and the person
goes, No, what I'm reallyneeding is that. And he Oh,
(13:39):
okay, now we understand. Youknow what? That's active
listening. I hear your concern.
I hear that you are not happyabout that.
So I'll give you a great examplefrom back in my food days,
working at a facility, and I hada group of ladies come into my
(14:02):
office, and I could see theywere very, very agitated. And
basically what was happening isthey had an really old couch in
the bathroom that they could siton during, I guess, if they
needed a break, if they neededto rest, they could go off into
the bathroom and sit on thiscouch.
We sanitation was getting rid ofit, and they were not happy
(14:23):
about their resting couch justdisappearing. And I could have
i One was stunned, but the goodnews is I listened because I
didn't know what else to dowhen all else fails. Nod your
head and listen and really keeplistening and taking it in to
feed me to figure at least toget you some time to figure out
(14:45):
what you should do about it. SoI asked questions. Why was it
there? When did it show up? Whyare they telling you that it's
leaving? And I would recap that,so you're telling me that
they're saying it's a sanitationhazard. You're telling me that
it's you.
Old and needs to be gettingrotten rid of you're saying that
you need a place to rest. Andyou're saying you need these
(15:06):
things. Is that, what am Ihearing you correctly, that
you're unhappy because of thesethings. They're happening
because of this event sequence.
And then what you're reallywanting, like, what do you want
is somewhere to sit comfortablyand rest? And I don't think I
solved it. I'm almost certain Ididn't solve it to what they
(15:27):
wanted, because they wantedtheir couch or a new couch, and
what they ended up with was alittle bit more comfortable
break room chairs. Because Iexplained. I said, you know,
there's, not really, as a safetymanager, there's not much I can
do there. There's really not alaw or guidance or a policy or
even a best practice. Actually,I said that sounds kind of
(15:50):
rough, that we don't really wantyou sitting on this old, dirty
couch in a food plant, andhonestly, I don't think it's
approved, and I'd be worriedwhat if it broke. I don't want
you to get hurt while you're onthis thing, and so
we still got rid of it, and Idon't think they were happy.
What I did do was try to findsome better break room and some
betterjust places for them to read.
(16:14):
Make sure it was Is it too hot,too cold? What would give it
more comfort, so that you wouldhave a better place to do that,
rather than on that couch in thebathroom.
And not, not that it was, it wascertainly not to there, but it
was the closing of the loop thatI at least felt that I had done
(16:36):
well. And it's one of the theseare one of the few examples I
can give where I actually didthis the right way. I actually
listened, recapped, took action,so I got a winning example. I
can also cite so many that Ilook back on and go, you know, I
didn't hear that right, and Ididn't do that right, and I
didn't evendidn't put the time I should
(16:58):
have to it. But in this case,it's an example of where I knew
I couldn't do anything. Therewas they were, in my opinion,
and I think in the opinion ofthe company, in an opinion of a
lot of things, they weren'tgoing to win that one, it was
not they, they were not in theright there.
But there were other things wecould do based on what is it
that made that special and andof course, there was a little
(17:20):
bit of the like, it was a placeto go and kind of hide, if you
could step off and away for alittle bit. But we didn't dress
that. I didn't go there.
What is it about listening thatmakes it so powerful is the fact
that you you've met the personwhere they are and safety is, is
absolutely the best way to begetting what what else makes
(17:42):
such a powerful statement inanyone's life. Then I hear you
about the ways that you can gethurt. I hear you about the
things that you need to make youfeel safe in this workplace. And
I am going to do something. I amgoing to take an action because
of what you have said. I havemet you in this place of
(18:04):
vulnerability. I have met youwhere you're standing, where you
were most vulnerable and willingto say something.
And it sends a message, if I donothing, why bring it forward?
If I actually do something, oractually respond and hear them
where they are and meet themwhere they are. They will meet
(18:25):
me there again, and we will haveconversations. We will learn
about our organization, andultimately, we will improve our
organization. And if we improvecommunication, we learn about
the very roots of safety in ourculture, and we're able to
address them at the veryfundamental point of where they
happen in the organization. It'sso important that we take the
(18:48):
time to truly hear, to trulylisten. And so when people come
to us and they start talking tous, take the time physically
focus. Turn the other thingsoff, look, listen, recap, be
able to engage, and these aretips I'm taking with me too. So
(19:08):
for listening to the leading andlearning through safety podcast,
more content is available onlineat www dot tsda consulting.com,
all the opinions expressed onthe podcast are solely
attributed to the individual andnot affiliated with any business
(19:30):
entity. This podcast is forinformational and entertainment
purposes. It is not a substitutefor proper policy, appropriate
training or legal advice you.
(20:00):
This has been the leading andlearning through safety podcast.
You.
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