May 16, 2025 • 20 mins
This episode of the Leading and Learning Through Safety podcast, hosted by Dr. Mark French, explores the use of euphemisms in leadership communication. Inspired by a recent article from the Journal of Applied Psychology, Dr. French discusses how euphemistic language—used to soften or reframe harsh realities—can diminish the perceived severity of serious issues like fraud, negligence, or safety violations. While euphemisms can serve a respectful purpose, overuse may lead to reduced accountability and weaker corrective actions.
Dr. French warns against leaders defaulting to either extreme: being overly blunt and personal, or excessively soft and indirect. Both styles, when misapplied, result in ineffective leadership. Instead, he advocates for balanced communication—one that names problems clearly while preserving respect and engagement. Using real-life safety and leadership examples, he emphasizes the importance of addressing problems, not people, and adapting communication to the audience and context. The ultimate goal is to foster constructive conversations that solve problems and improve safety without degrading team members.
The episode concludes with a reminder: effective leadership communication is situational. Sometimes, softening helps understanding. Other times, urgency demands clarity. Either way, always target the issue—not the individual.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:01):
This week on the leading and learning through
safety podcast, we're going tocontinue some talk about
communication. Came across agreat journal, journal article
that I want to share about howwe communicate. How can we
better communicate in all thepitfalls around it? This week on
the podcast,welcome to the leading and
(00:36):
learning through safety podcast.
Your host is Dr Mark French.
Mark's passion is helpingorganizations motivate their
teams. This podcast is focusedon bringing out the best in
leadership through creatingstrong values, learning
opportunities, teamwork andsafety. Nothing is more
(00:58):
important than protecting yourpeople, safety creates an
environment for empathy,innovation and empowerment.
Together, we'll discover meaningand purpose through shaping our
safety culture. Thanks forjoining us this episode and now
here is Dr Mark French,hello and welcome to this
(01:34):
episode of the leading andlearning Through safety podcast.
So glad you've joined me. Alwaysan honor to be part of your
podcast download and yourrotation this week, talking more
in the leadership stance, but Isee this a lot in safety, good
communication conveying thetruth about safety, and there's
(01:55):
so much confusion aroundcommunication, and I can already
feel, as I started walkingthrough this idea that, you
know, there's gonna be a lot ofinteresting sticking points that
we're gonna come across, we'rewe're gonna see a lot of well,
I've met someone who who hasdone this, and I've seen this
(02:17):
happen, and this happensfrequently. There's a lot of
unfortunately, there's a lot ofvariation here that we're going
to talk about, or try to talkabout. I won't be able to cover
it all, of course, but you knowwhat, we'll try. So this came
from the Journal of AppliedPsychology, from the American
Psychological Association. Thisis the May 2025, edition, and
(02:39):
there's a great article that Icame across called euphemism as
a powerful framing device thatinfluences moral judgments and
punitive responses afterwrongdoing. That's a lot great
article, a lot of reallyinteresting course of action
that confirmed a lot of what Ihave thought in the world of
(03:02):
safety, and now, even more, inthe world of HR. Now let's start
with the definition ofeuphemism. It's a way of
softening, it's a way of talkingto someone, and ultimately, it
was meant to be an act ofrespect, an act of trying not to
be just blunt in almost adisrespectful way, or blunt in a
(03:24):
way that it comes across asinsensitive or not understanding
the other person's side. So it'sthings like, instead of saying
someone died, do you say theypassed away? So these are ways
of instead of making it a harshword, we soften it. Now this has
become exceptionally common anda lot of business that we see
(03:46):
this as a leadership tool ofeverything has to be softened to
a degree that we want it tosound like it's easier or it's
better than what it is and whatthis article looks like in
particular, and what theyevaluate is when you soften
those words in something that issevere, like a business effort
(04:08):
of fraud or bribery, or when Ithink about things in safety
like that, something that couldhave really hurt someone, or
something that was negligent, orsomething that was completely
missed by a leader of some form,that when we soften it and we
present it, it makes everythingfeel better, like it really
(04:30):
wasn't that bad. And so theimplications are that we treat
it less severely, we may not goafter it or try to solve it is
as intensely as if we just callit what it is. So there where
this goes in my mind, in the thepractical reach and application
(04:52):
is, when do we use euphemisms?
When is the right time? When dowe need just to call it what it
is?
Yes, and when is it appropriate,and how is it appropriate, and
how do we apply it? But theirscientific research goes through
in brief,in a very high level summary.
Here, they do some work to seeif that by using these
(05:17):
euphemisms, by softening thelanguage around things that have
significant business recourse,like severe things, again,
bribery, fraud, things likethat, that when the third party
hears about it, do they go, oh,you know, it really wasn't that
bad. It's okay. And ultimately,could that lead to more people
(05:37):
committing that issue? Maybe itcould.
But again, that's me reaching.
And so what we're looking at inthis episode of the podcast is,
I want to talk about the use ofeuphemisms, because we have seen
(05:58):
this become more and morecommon, and I find it to be, and
I don't mean this negatively, Isee it as weak leadership
only not because if you use it,you're a weak leader. That's not
what I'm saying. I'm saying thata lot of companies don't invest
in the soft leadership skills.
They take someone who is good atwhat they do when they promote
(06:18):
them. That's pretty common, anda lot of times there's not a lot
of time or energy put into whatI would call creating the bench
for leaders, of creating peoplewho are ready to step up and
lead and know these things thatknow and practice good
communication approaches. Soit's not you're a bad leader. If
you use these, I use them.
(06:40):
There's a time and a place forall types of communication. A
lot is knowing your audience andknowing what you're trying to
convey in understanding themessage. Now I'm going to start
with some times that I've seenthis go exceptionally wrong,
and this is where we attack aperson, where we defend
(07:00):
ourselves with, oh, well, I'mjust being a upfront
communicator, or I'm just bluntwith my words, or I don't
believe in softening it. I justtell it like it is, and then
that becomes the excuse forbeing rude, or being, I would
say, not even rude. It's beyondthat. In some ways, it's, it's,
(07:21):
again, it's poor peopleleadership, because then they
use that to go, well, thatperson is just dumb, or they're
just stupid, or they're justclumsy. In the safety world,
I've heard this a lot in thesafety world, where that
person's just just an idiot,they just get hurt all the time,
or that person is clumsy, andthat makes it okay. By calling
(07:43):
them a name, by degrading themas a human being, it makes it
okay. And then we go back andgo, Well, I'm a good
communicator, because I tell itlike it is. No, that's not what
we're talking about. One, wedon't, we don't do that about
people. We don't fix a person.
We fix a problem. We engage aperson to fix the problem.
(08:07):
That's how we do it. There's aproblem, and it goes deeper than
the human almost. And again,this is inconclusive, but
generally, anywhere from 95 to99% of the time, there's other
circumstances other than aperson just being who they are,
especially in safety. Peopledon't come to work and go, You
(08:28):
know what? Today is the day thatI want to get hurt so bad that I
need medical attention? No. Nowhave I met? Yes, yes. I'm not
going to tell you there's notsomeone out there that sees it
as an opportunity, but it'srare, and because we as
professionals, I've been talkingabout this some to others and
(08:53):
kind of brainstorming, it isthat we end up spending way too
much of our time on those thatare on the exceptions of the
bell curve, and usually the lowend, it's usually those that
give us the most trouble, that234,
hopefully less percent of peoplethat bring out trouble that
require a lot of time. And so weend up so much there that we
(09:17):
forget, or it's easy to we don'tforget, but it's easy to push
aside all the good that'shappening outside of that. And
so we get so used to working inthe exception that we don't have
the opportunity to really seethe other that's happening. And
that's tough when you'respending most of your work day
(09:37):
in the exceptions, in that roughthat's what you learn. That's
what you end up doing so muchof. And you get used to talking
in exceptions. And so here Iwant to move back out of that
and go most of the time we'renot dealing with the exception.
We're having to deal with othertimes where things need to be
said in an appropriate,manageable action.
(10:00):
Actionable, actionable way.
Let's talk more about thatcoming up on the second half of
the leading and learning throughsafety podcast. You are
listening tothe leading and learning through
safety podcast with Dr MarkFrench, dsda Consulting. Learn
you lead others. The Myers,Briggs Type Indicator is an
(10:22):
amazing tool. Problem is that itcan be easily misinterpreted. Dr
Mark French is MBTI certifiedand ready to help you discover
your inner strengths. The MBTIassessment can help with team
building, stress management,communication, conflict
management and so much more,individual and group sessions
(10:43):
are available to help youdiscover what makes you great
for more information, visit uson the web at tsda
consulting.comand welcome back to the leading
and learning through Safetypodcast. This week, we're
talking about communicationspecifically euphemisms. How do
we soften language, sometimesappropriately or
(11:06):
inappropriately? How do we dothat?
So I was talking about theexceptions, and how sometimes
we're dealing with theleadership exceptions of people.
I'm just blunt. I tell it likeit is. They're an idiot, and
that fixes it. No, it doesn't.
But there are times where maybewe need to talk to someone and
let them know that, you know,that was not a good choice, but
(11:27):
it's not the end of the world.
It's and that's where euphemismsare really powerful, and having
those conversations of, hey, youknow, constantly leaving your
safety or forgetting them is nota good thing. You've you, I'm
looking out for you and sayingyou need to be wearing these
protect yourself. And thenthere's times where you get more
(11:49):
serious and go, are you lookingto lose your eyes? Because
that's what you're trying to do.
At this point, you can't dothat. And I remember, I there
was one, this is years ago, butI think I probably used this
example once before, but it tome, it continues to resonate
with me of just how somethingescalated from helpful to
productive to it just it waswhat it was. And I go back to my
(12:14):
automotive days, and we had asmall lift assist, air powered
crane, thing that would pick upa seat frame and move it from
one line to the other. Now, somepeople got in the habit of just
picking up like they would puttheir shoulder into the the v
shape of a seat, like a carseat, where the the butt piece
and the back piece connect, putyour shoulder in there, roll it
(12:37):
back over your shoulder, and youcould pick it up and walk it
where you needed to go. That wasfaster. Of course, it was rather
than using this air power devicethat would come down and you
would click the button, it wouldclamp down, pick it up and move
it. But so much safer long term,to pick it up with the lift
assist, especially when you'redoing it every two minutes for
an hour, twice a day, becauseyou would rotate on the line.
(13:01):
You'd see that station twice aday during your shift, and you'd
do that five days a week.
Eventually, it would wear onyou, no matter how great, how
strong you were. And I remembergoing, there was one person in
particular that definitely wasin decent shape could do it, but
I needed them to not do that.
The rule said you would use thelift assist. So we want you to I
(13:24):
would go out, and then I wouldexplain. I started off with the
simple stuff like, Hey, you'regonna wear yourself out over
time. This is could hurt you. Igot the I'm not hurt. I'm not
gonna get hurt. I'm strong. I'mall these reasons why. Okay,
well, you want to be you wouldlike to be promoted to a team
lead and later on. Yeah, I'dlove to get promoted someday.
(13:46):
Well, I need you to set a goodexample for everyone else who
may not bein as good as shape as you.
Maybe they're watching you assomeone who may be a potential
leader someday, and you'relifting this inappropriately,
and we need you to be betterabout that, so that you're
setting the right example. Oh,okay, well, no, I'm still better
than that. I'm not gonna gethurt. Oh, okay, now we have to
(14:11):
get down to what it really meanshere. If I see you not using
that lift assist again, you willbe written up. It is a safety
rule, and now we're to the pointwhere I just simply say there
will be punitive issue if youcontinue to do it that way and
not use the lift assist. Do youunderstand? Oh, yeah. So dancing
(14:32):
around, it didn't really work,and it wasn't really down. Was
truly trying to soften it to belike, Hey, we're encouraging you
to use this is a great thingabout the company. It's a safety
device. You should use it. Andit ultimately came down to being
very upfront in saying, Hey, youwill use it or else. And in the
(14:53):
article, what they talk aboutsome of the more bigger business
issues, is that when some.
One in the company is committinga theft or committing fraud or
doing a significant ethicalissue, if we don't directly say
it is what it is that that wasfraud, that was unethical, that
(15:18):
was illegal, and I know that's atough thing for people to hear
in the safety world, because weuse that so frequently. And I
try to explain that, hey, youknow, the law is confusing. It
can say these things. I softenit until I can't soften it
anymore. And I simply say, I'msorry, but what you're talking
about, we can find a way to doit the right way, but the way
(15:39):
that you're saying for us to doit is not and it is illegal,
according to the OSHA law, thatis where sometimes we have to
bridge that gap of beingencouraging and being proper and
also just saying it what it is,but we can't just stop it
calling it what it is. That iswhere I think a lot of leaders
(16:01):
or potential leaders have thebiggest stopping point is we
call it and we go stop work.
That's wrong. Don't do itanymore. We don't engage the
people into problem solving tosay, okay, it has to look like
this to be legal and to be safe.
How do we get it there. How dowe bridge that gap together? How
(16:23):
do we engage the problem? Again,I'm not engaging the act of the
person, I'm engaging theproblem. And that is where a lot
of recent like radical candorand some other books are really
approaching the idea of, how dowe talk to people about the
issue and not about themselves,and not make it personal,
(16:43):
because it's so easy to tobridge things like well. And I
remember one boss one time hewas I made a mistake. I made a
mistake. I admitted to it. Isaid I would fix it. I would
take care of it. And his finalword to me was, Mark, I'm so
disappointed in you for this.
What? Okay, I made a mistake. Iadmitted I made the mistake. I'm
(17:04):
going to do everything I can toto write the mistake in
disappointed. Okay, that soundedlike good leadership, being
blunt and upfront. No, youattacked a person. You that
didn't help the problem at all.
It didn't help me solve it. Itdidn't make me feel better about
I already didn't feel good aboutit, and if anybody had known me,
I don't like to make mistakes,but we all do it, so we might as
(17:27):
well admit it and fix ittogether and move forward. But
in this case, I remember that,and that really hit me is that
we don't attack people. We don'twant to go after the person. We
go after the problem, and if theproblem is there, we call it
what it is, and we try to usethat to fix it the right way. If
(17:48):
it is something that's going toseverely hurt someone, let's
call it that way, and then let'sgo after it with the urgency
that it deserves, rather thanplay around it. And I think this
article, I'm again, giving agreat stretch here based on what
I'm reading, but it gives somereally interesting background
research that leads us down theroad of, how do we create that
(18:09):
better communication? And when Isummarize all of that, what I
will say is, we look at thesituation and we say, Hey, can
is this something that we needto kind of ease into so that we
can all understand it better, oris it something we need to call
it like it is and give it theurgency it deserves? There's the
technique, and remember, it'snot about calling out the
(18:30):
person. It's about calling outthe problem.
Thanks for joining me on thisepisode of the leading and
learning through safety podcast,as always. Thank you for joining
me. Thank you for downloadingme, and until next time we chat,
stay safe.
(19:02):
Thank you for listening to theleading and learning through
safety podcast. More content isavailable online at www dot tsda
consulting.comall the opinions expressed on
the podcast are solelyattributed to the individual and
not affiliated with any businessentity. This podcast is for
(19:24):
informational and entertainmentpurposes. It is not a substitute
for proper policy, appropriatetraining or legal advice.
YouThis has been the leading and
(19:54):
learning through safety podcast.
You.
This week on the leading and learning through
safety podcast, we're going tocontinue some talk about
communication. Came across agreat journal, journal article
that I want to share about howwe communicate. How can we
better communicate in all thepitfalls around it? This week on
the podcast,welcome to the leading and
(00:36):
learning through safety podcast.
Your host is Dr Mark French.
Mark's passion is helpingorganizations motivate their
teams. This podcast is focusedon bringing out the best in
leadership through creatingstrong values, learning
opportunities, teamwork andsafety. Nothing is more
(00:58):
important than protecting yourpeople, safety creates an
environment for empathy,innovation and empowerment.
Together, we'll discover meaningand purpose through shaping our
safety culture. Thanks forjoining us this episode and now
here is Dr Mark French,hello and welcome to this
(01:34):
episode of the leading andlearning Through safety podcast.
So glad you've joined me. Alwaysan honor to be part of your
podcast download and yourrotation this week, talking more
in the leadership stance, but Isee this a lot in safety, good
communication conveying thetruth about safety, and there's
(01:55):
so much confusion aroundcommunication, and I can already
feel, as I started walkingthrough this idea that, you
know, there's gonna be a lot ofinteresting sticking points that
we're gonna come across, we'rewe're gonna see a lot of well,
I've met someone who who hasdone this, and I've seen this
(02:17):
happen, and this happensfrequently. There's a lot of
unfortunately, there's a lot ofvariation here that we're going
to talk about, or try to talkabout. I won't be able to cover
it all, of course, but you knowwhat, we'll try. So this came
from the Journal of AppliedPsychology, from the American
Psychological Association. Thisis the May 2025, edition, and
(02:39):
there's a great article that Icame across called euphemism as
a powerful framing device thatinfluences moral judgments and
punitive responses afterwrongdoing. That's a lot great
article, a lot of reallyinteresting course of action
that confirmed a lot of what Ihave thought in the world of
(03:02):
safety, and now, even more, inthe world of HR. Now let's start
with the definition ofeuphemism. It's a way of
softening, it's a way of talkingto someone, and ultimately, it
was meant to be an act ofrespect, an act of trying not to
be just blunt in almost adisrespectful way, or blunt in a
(03:24):
way that it comes across asinsensitive or not understanding
the other person's side. So it'sthings like, instead of saying
someone died, do you say theypassed away? So these are ways
of instead of making it a harshword, we soften it. Now this has
become exceptionally common anda lot of business that we see
(03:46):
this as a leadership tool ofeverything has to be softened to
a degree that we want it tosound like it's easier or it's
better than what it is and whatthis article looks like in
particular, and what theyevaluate is when you soften
those words in something that issevere, like a business effort
(04:08):
of fraud or bribery, or when Ithink about things in safety
like that, something that couldhave really hurt someone, or
something that was negligent, orsomething that was completely
missed by a leader of some form,that when we soften it and we
present it, it makes everythingfeel better, like it really
(04:30):
wasn't that bad. And so theimplications are that we treat
it less severely, we may not goafter it or try to solve it is
as intensely as if we just callit what it is. So there where
this goes in my mind, in the thepractical reach and application
(04:52):
is, when do we use euphemisms?
When is the right time? When dowe need just to call it what it
is?
Yes, and when is it appropriate,and how is it appropriate, and
how do we apply it? But theirscientific research goes through
in brief,in a very high level summary.
Here, they do some work to seeif that by using these
(05:17):
euphemisms, by softening thelanguage around things that have
significant business recourse,like severe things, again,
bribery, fraud, things likethat, that when the third party
hears about it, do they go, oh,you know, it really wasn't that
bad. It's okay. And ultimately,could that lead to more people
(05:37):
committing that issue? Maybe itcould.
But again, that's me reaching.
And so what we're looking at inthis episode of the podcast is,
I want to talk about the use ofeuphemisms, because we have seen
(05:58):
this become more and morecommon, and I find it to be, and
I don't mean this negatively, Isee it as weak leadership
only not because if you use it,you're a weak leader. That's not
what I'm saying. I'm saying thata lot of companies don't invest
in the soft leadership skills.
They take someone who is good atwhat they do when they promote
(06:18):
them. That's pretty common, anda lot of times there's not a lot
of time or energy put into whatI would call creating the bench
for leaders, of creating peoplewho are ready to step up and
lead and know these things thatknow and practice good
communication approaches. Soit's not you're a bad leader. If
you use these, I use them.
(06:40):
There's a time and a place forall types of communication. A
lot is knowing your audience andknowing what you're trying to
convey in understanding themessage. Now I'm going to start
with some times that I've seenthis go exceptionally wrong,
and this is where we attack aperson, where we defend
(07:00):
ourselves with, oh, well, I'mjust being a upfront
communicator, or I'm just bluntwith my words, or I don't
believe in softening it. I justtell it like it is, and then
that becomes the excuse forbeing rude, or being, I would
say, not even rude. It's beyondthat. In some ways, it's, it's,
(07:21):
again, it's poor peopleleadership, because then they
use that to go, well, thatperson is just dumb, or they're
just stupid, or they're justclumsy. In the safety world,
I've heard this a lot in thesafety world, where that
person's just just an idiot,they just get hurt all the time,
or that person is clumsy, andthat makes it okay. By calling
(07:43):
them a name, by degrading themas a human being, it makes it
okay. And then we go back andgo, Well, I'm a good
communicator, because I tell itlike it is. No, that's not what
we're talking about. One, wedon't, we don't do that about
people. We don't fix a person.
We fix a problem. We engage aperson to fix the problem.
(08:07):
That's how we do it. There's aproblem, and it goes deeper than
the human almost. And again,this is inconclusive, but
generally, anywhere from 95 to99% of the time, there's other
circumstances other than aperson just being who they are,
especially in safety. Peopledon't come to work and go, You
(08:28):
know what? Today is the day thatI want to get hurt so bad that I
need medical attention? No. Nowhave I met? Yes, yes. I'm not
going to tell you there's notsomeone out there that sees it
as an opportunity, but it'srare, and because we as
professionals, I've been talkingabout this some to others and
(08:53):
kind of brainstorming, it isthat we end up spending way too
much of our time on those thatare on the exceptions of the
bell curve, and usually the lowend, it's usually those that
give us the most trouble, that234,
hopefully less percent of peoplethat bring out trouble that
require a lot of time. And so weend up so much there that we
(09:17):
forget, or it's easy to we don'tforget, but it's easy to push
aside all the good that'shappening outside of that. And
so we get so used to working inthe exception that we don't have
the opportunity to really seethe other that's happening. And
that's tough when you'respending most of your work day
(09:37):
in the exceptions, in that roughthat's what you learn. That's
what you end up doing so muchof. And you get used to talking
in exceptions. And so here Iwant to move back out of that
and go most of the time we'renot dealing with the exception.
We're having to deal with othertimes where things need to be
said in an appropriate,manageable action.
(10:00):
Actionable, actionable way.
Let's talk more about thatcoming up on the second half of
the leading and learning throughsafety podcast. You are
listening tothe leading and learning through
safety podcast with Dr MarkFrench, dsda Consulting. Learn
you lead others. The Myers,Briggs Type Indicator is an
(10:22):
amazing tool. Problem is that itcan be easily misinterpreted. Dr
Mark French is MBTI certifiedand ready to help you discover
your inner strengths. The MBTIassessment can help with team
building, stress management,communication, conflict
management and so much more,individual and group sessions
(10:43):
are available to help youdiscover what makes you great
for more information, visit uson the web at tsda
consulting.comand welcome back to the leading
and learning through Safetypodcast. This week, we're
talking about communicationspecifically euphemisms. How do
we soften language, sometimesappropriately or
(11:06):
inappropriately? How do we dothat?
So I was talking about theexceptions, and how sometimes
we're dealing with theleadership exceptions of people.
I'm just blunt. I tell it likeit is. They're an idiot, and
that fixes it. No, it doesn't.
But there are times where maybewe need to talk to someone and
let them know that, you know,that was not a good choice, but
(11:27):
it's not the end of the world.
It's and that's where euphemismsare really powerful, and having
those conversations of, hey, youknow, constantly leaving your
safety or forgetting them is nota good thing. You've you, I'm
looking out for you and sayingyou need to be wearing these
protect yourself. And thenthere's times where you get more
(11:49):
serious and go, are you lookingto lose your eyes? Because
that's what you're trying to do.
At this point, you can't dothat. And I remember, I there
was one, this is years ago, butI think I probably used this
example once before, but it tome, it continues to resonate
with me of just how somethingescalated from helpful to
productive to it just it waswhat it was. And I go back to my
(12:14):
automotive days, and we had asmall lift assist, air powered
crane, thing that would pick upa seat frame and move it from
one line to the other. Now, somepeople got in the habit of just
picking up like they would puttheir shoulder into the the v
shape of a seat, like a carseat, where the the butt piece
and the back piece connect, putyour shoulder in there, roll it
(12:37):
back over your shoulder, and youcould pick it up and walk it
where you needed to go. That wasfaster. Of course, it was rather
than using this air power devicethat would come down and you
would click the button, it wouldclamp down, pick it up and move
it. But so much safer long term,to pick it up with the lift
assist, especially when you'redoing it every two minutes for
an hour, twice a day, becauseyou would rotate on the line.
(13:01):
You'd see that station twice aday during your shift, and you'd
do that five days a week.
Eventually, it would wear onyou, no matter how great, how
strong you were. And I remembergoing, there was one person in
particular that definitely wasin decent shape could do it, but
I needed them to not do that.
The rule said you would use thelift assist. So we want you to I
(13:24):
would go out, and then I wouldexplain. I started off with the
simple stuff like, Hey, you'regonna wear yourself out over
time. This is could hurt you. Igot the I'm not hurt. I'm not
gonna get hurt. I'm strong. I'mall these reasons why. Okay,
well, you want to be you wouldlike to be promoted to a team
lead and later on. Yeah, I'dlove to get promoted someday.
(13:46):
Well, I need you to set a goodexample for everyone else who
may not bein as good as shape as you.
Maybe they're watching you assomeone who may be a potential
leader someday, and you'relifting this inappropriately,
and we need you to be betterabout that, so that you're
setting the right example. Oh,okay, well, no, I'm still better
than that. I'm not gonna gethurt. Oh, okay, now we have to
(14:11):
get down to what it really meanshere. If I see you not using
that lift assist again, you willbe written up. It is a safety
rule, and now we're to the pointwhere I just simply say there
will be punitive issue if youcontinue to do it that way and
not use the lift assist. Do youunderstand? Oh, yeah. So dancing
(14:32):
around, it didn't really work,and it wasn't really down. Was
truly trying to soften it to belike, Hey, we're encouraging you
to use this is a great thingabout the company. It's a safety
device. You should use it. Andit ultimately came down to being
very upfront in saying, Hey, youwill use it or else. And in the
(14:53):
article, what they talk aboutsome of the more bigger business
issues, is that when some.
One in the company is committinga theft or committing fraud or
doing a significant ethicalissue, if we don't directly say
it is what it is that that wasfraud, that was unethical, that
(15:18):
was illegal, and I know that's atough thing for people to hear
in the safety world, because weuse that so frequently. And I
try to explain that, hey, youknow, the law is confusing. It
can say these things. I softenit until I can't soften it
anymore. And I simply say, I'msorry, but what you're talking
about, we can find a way to doit the right way, but the way
(15:39):
that you're saying for us to doit is not and it is illegal,
according to the OSHA law, thatis where sometimes we have to
bridge that gap of beingencouraging and being proper and
also just saying it what it is,but we can't just stop it
calling it what it is. That iswhere I think a lot of leaders
(16:01):
or potential leaders have thebiggest stopping point is we
call it and we go stop work.
That's wrong. Don't do itanymore. We don't engage the
people into problem solving tosay, okay, it has to look like
this to be legal and to be safe.
How do we get it there. How dowe bridge that gap together? How
(16:23):
do we engage the problem? Again,I'm not engaging the act of the
person, I'm engaging theproblem. And that is where a lot
of recent like radical candorand some other books are really
approaching the idea of, how dowe talk to people about the
issue and not about themselves,and not make it personal,
(16:43):
because it's so easy to tobridge things like well. And I
remember one boss one time hewas I made a mistake. I made a
mistake. I admitted to it. Isaid I would fix it. I would
take care of it. And his finalword to me was, Mark, I'm so
disappointed in you for this.
What? Okay, I made a mistake. Iadmitted I made the mistake. I'm
(17:04):
going to do everything I can toto write the mistake in
disappointed. Okay, that soundedlike good leadership, being
blunt and upfront. No, youattacked a person. You that
didn't help the problem at all.
It didn't help me solve it. Itdidn't make me feel better about
I already didn't feel good aboutit, and if anybody had known me,
I don't like to make mistakes,but we all do it, so we might as
(17:27):
well admit it and fix ittogether and move forward. But
in this case, I remember that,and that really hit me is that
we don't attack people. We don'twant to go after the person. We
go after the problem, and if theproblem is there, we call it
what it is, and we try to usethat to fix it the right way. If
(17:48):
it is something that's going toseverely hurt someone, let's
call it that way, and then let'sgo after it with the urgency
that it deserves, rather thanplay around it. And I think this
article, I'm again, giving agreat stretch here based on what
I'm reading, but it gives somereally interesting background
research that leads us down theroad of, how do we create that
(18:09):
better communication? And when Isummarize all of that, what I
will say is, we look at thesituation and we say, Hey, can
is this something that we needto kind of ease into so that we
can all understand it better, oris it something we need to call
it like it is and give it theurgency it deserves? There's the
technique, and remember, it'snot about calling out the
(18:30):
person. It's about calling outthe problem.
Thanks for joining me on thisepisode of the leading and
learning through safety podcast,as always. Thank you for joining
me. Thank you for downloadingme, and until next time we chat,
stay safe.
(19:02):
Thank you for listening to theleading and learning through
safety podcast. More content isavailable online at www dot tsda
consulting.comall the opinions expressed on
the podcast are solelyattributed to the individual and
not affiliated with any businessentity. This podcast is for
(19:24):
informational and entertainmentpurposes. It is not a substitute
for proper policy, appropriatetraining or legal advice.
YouThis has been the leading and
(19:54):
learning through safety podcast.
You.
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