In today’s episode of Leading Her Way, Nikisha is joined by Angie Lion from Black River Performance to explore how emotional intelligence transforms team dynamics, client experiences, and long-term business growth.
If you’re a creative entrepreneur, small business owner, or CEO trying to build a strong, connected team or gain the trust of potential clients, this conversation is your next step.
You’ll learn:
- What emotional intelligence (EQ) really is and why it’s different from IQ
- How to recognize when your team members are silently struggling
- How entrepreneurs often lose trust without realizing it—and how to rebuild it
- Why client trust starts long before the pitch
- How boundaries, feedback, and compassion shape high-performing cultures
Plus, Nikisha shares real scenarios from her business and coaching work, like managing grief in contractors and how to support your team while growing your empire.
Connect with Angie:
Tune in and uncover the skills that make or break client and team relationships in every business.
Want to attract aligned clients with less hustle and more heart?
Follow @nkbizguru on Instagram and get access to Nikisha’s 5-Star SCALE™ Framework at her More Profit, Less Chaos masterclass.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Announcer (00:01):
Welcome to Leading Her Way with your host and
business guru, Nakesha King.
This podcast is the ultimatedestination for women, creative
entrepreneurs, who want to breakfree from burnout.
If you are overwhelmed byclient demands and feel like
you're doing this all alone, you, my friend, are in the right
(00:23):
place alone.
You, my friend, are in theright place Now.
Let's dive in for steps to takeback your time and simplify
your workflow.
All right, Nikisha, take itaway.
Nikisha King (00:36):
Hello everyone, welcome to Leading Her Way
podcast.
I'm your host, nikisha, andtoday we have an amazing guest
with us.
I have Angie Leone from BlackRiver Performance Management
Company, and today we have somegreat topics for you.
We're going to be talking aboutemotional intelligence.
As team members, so, as youknow, as our creative
(00:56):
entrepreneurs, we hire orcontract virtual assistants,
online business managers andanytime, we work with anyone,
even our family.
Yes, everyone has emotionalintelligence, everyone has
feelings, and these feelingssometimes affect their actions
and they can show up differently, in different ways at different
(01:17):
times.
So I'm going to say welcome,angie.
Thank you for coming andsharing your wealth of knowledge
with us.
I'm excited because I thinktoday we're going to be talking
about emotional intelligence andtransitional intelligence, and
that's a real good one for ouramazing entrepreneurs who are
listening today, and you'regoing to find out why, so just
keep listening.
(01:38):
So, angie, please introduceyourself and tell us a little
bit more about your company, howit came to be.
Are you working it alone?
Do you have a partner by yourside?
I'm all ears.
Angie Lion (01:53):
Thank you for this opportunity to share my story
and to just share some of thewisdom that I've been able to
cultivate in my long time onthis planet.
So emotional intelligence isthe skill that I didn't have
early on.
This will kind of share how itcame to be and how my business
came to be.
So I started off working in theoperating room and working with
surgeons and I started to workwith really intelligent people
(02:15):
and some of them had very highemotional intelligence and could
really get their teams to bendover backwards for them and feel
like they were a part of theteam.
They could make the team kindof work like a symphony.
And then I noticed otherleaders because the surgeon is
the leader in the room how theycould come in and create chaos
and bring the weather into thatroom and I would notice how it
(02:36):
would be fearful and it would bea place where people wouldn't
speak up and they would do somekind of lateral violent
behaviors and ultimately I sawthis as something that would
impact the patient, even thoughthey wouldn't want it to.
Things might take longer,things might not be lined up
because people might be passive,aggressive.
So I started to notice howintelligence and emotional
(02:57):
intelligence weren't the samething, and at the time I was
starting to teach at Boise StateUniversity and the College of
Western Idaho.
I was starting to teach at BoiseState University and the
College of Western Idaho and Iwas in some courses to learn
about teaching and workplacetraining and leadership, and I
took a class where I had towrite a paper on emotional
intelligence and I came acrossDaniel Goldman's work and then I
(03:17):
realized, wow, this is what Idon't have a lot of.
And also I noticed that a lot ofthe people that I work with you
know this is the skill, thoughit's something that can be built
, and at first I thought it wassomething that you know, you
were born with, or some peoplewere really good at this, and
then I learned just like surgery, you can learn anything as a
(03:38):
skill.
I can learn to do a total kneejust as much as I can learn to
do a facelift, as I can learn tofix.
You know, take out yourappendix.
So when I think about theskills for the job, emotional
intelligence, when I was gettingthe students ready, was the
skill that the employers werelooking for, and when we're
running a business, this issomething we're looking for as
(03:59):
well when we're hiring someoneis that some.
We want somebody thatunderstands their own emotions,
understands the emotions ofother people and are able to
basically play well in thesandbox.
Nikisha King (04:11):
So so wait before you keep going.
This is so good.
Emotional intelligence is verydifferent from intelligence.
I want to repeat that again forthe people all the way in the
back Emotional intelligence isdifferent from intelligence.
Now, Angie, the reason I canlike so empathize or relate to
(04:31):
what you're saying is because mybackground started in health
and when I worked in a hospitalfacility, the emotional
intelligence was lacking.
You had a building full ofintelligent human beings who
were skilled in what they did,but bedside manners OMG, where
did they go?
I've even had people come to mewith some energy and I was like
(04:52):
I don't ever want to see youagain.
You are not my physician.
We are going to go to someoneelse in your practice because
they lack the EI.
So I think having people evenhear that and bringing it to the
consciousness of our minds isso cool, because every day we
interact with people and doesn'tmean everyone has the emotional
(05:13):
intelligence in theirinteraction.
There are a lot of CEOs that Ispeak to who will always
complain about the dynamics ofhaving a team and sometimes I
wonder if it's because theydon't relate well or they relate
so much.
Some of them run their companythrough their emotions and I'm
like hold up, you got to pullback some of that emotion,
(05:34):
because this is too much forthis environment.
You want people to help you.
You don't want people whodepend on you while you're
running a business.
Absolutely want people whodepend on you while you're
running a business, and that isa possibility too right, so it
still has some form of balanceto it, even where we work, in
the workplace.
Now let's talk about what itlooks like in the workplace.
(05:55):
How can we identify whensomeone either a CEO, an
entrepreneur, a team member,which are employee or a
contractor?
How can we recognize whensomeone does have emotional
intelligence and when someone'slacking it?
Okay, that's a great question.
Angie Lion (06:14):
Well, first of all, I will just say that most people
think they have it, most peoplethink they have it and other
people don't think that otherpeople don't have it.
So that's a place to reallystart, and I think we have to be
really honest with ourselves isthat we all can improve, and to
think that I'm superior to youis a hard place to be.
I think it's more like aculture that we are creating in
(06:37):
our workplace of we all haveroom to grow.
We're a learning and growingculture and we're going to be
offering feedback to one anotherso that we can grow, because we
all do have blind spots.
So I think, if we see it fromthat type of perspective where
we, even as the leader, say I'mthe CEO, I have room to improve
(06:58):
in this area as well.
I know I don't handle thingswell when I'm stressed.
These are some of my shadowbehaviors or these are some of
my overextensions, and so I'mworking to improve my snappiness
or my critical nature or myover-talkativeness when I get
insecure, right?
So really it's building theculture and that's where we come
(07:20):
in with culture work to helporganizations understand that
wanna be learning and growingand improving consistently, that
they are creating theenvironment for people to know
the language, because in aculture we need a language,
right?
So when we're talking aboutemotional intelligence, what
does that even mean to you,right?
And so we want to define EQ.
(07:41):
Eq or EI is the same thing.
It means your emotionalquotient, so, or, and it's
basically a measurement of howyou use your emotions to benefit
yourself and for the benefit ofothers, the same way that IQ is
how intelligent you are, right.
But the thing about IQ is thatit does.
It's kind of fixed.
It's more crystallized whereemotional intelligence is
(08:04):
something we can grow, and it'sa skill that the more you grow
it, the more you're going to beneeded, the more you're going to
make.
The research shows that themore money you'll make, the more
you'll be promoted, the moreyour relationships will thrive,
and so this is why I've spent alot of time in my life improving
my own and working to helpothers improve theirs.
So I think it really comes downto the culture and defining it.
(08:24):
And then what does that entail?
When we define it, we break itdown into five components, which
is self-awareness, which is thefirst step.
We can't do anything if we'renot self-aware.
And only 15% of the population,across all industries, are
actually self-aware, buteverybody thinks they are.
So we have to gain moreawareness and with more
awareness then we can become toregulate better.
(08:48):
Regulate when we're upset.
How are we going to handle this?
To make better decisions?
And then also so the self part.
There's three components thatare self self-awareness,
self-regulation and then our ownmotivation.
And how do our moods, how arethose impacted by?
How do those impact ourmotivation?
And how do we motivateourselves when we don't feel
like doing things?
Because we all know there'stimes where we don't feel like
(09:09):
doing things that are good forus, like going to the gym.
Well, how do I go, even when Idon't feel like?
Or getting up early even when Idon't feel like it, those types
of things.
And then we have the componentthat's more relationship
management, which is your socialawareness how you read a room,
how you understand, feel theenergy, understand when's an
appropriate time to have thediscussion.
And then also, how do youregulate?
(09:31):
Once you become more aware, howdo you regulate yourself or
regulate the emotions of otherpeople and help deescalate them?
So it's human skills.
I hate that they're called softskills.
Nikisha King (09:42):
Why you don't think they're soft.
Wait, wait.
Do you hate that it's calledsoft skills?
Because the word soft for youmeans like how people say you're
girly.
Is that how you interpret soft?
Angie Lion (09:53):
I don't know why I hate it.
That's a really good question.
I've never been asked that.
Nikisha King (09:58):
But I think, think about it, because it's like
you're soft.
We've come to live in anenvironment where it's either
you're soft or you're hard right, and usually we even identify
that as feminine energy andmasculine energy.
We love to give things labels,labels that don't even matter.
So point blank is just a skill.
It's not human, it's not softand it's not hard.
(10:19):
It is a skill because it'sacquired through learning.
I love that.
That's all it is.
Angie Lion (10:25):
I do know where it came from and it helps me
understand where the term camefrom now.
It's the soft skills meanthuman skills, for the military,
and the hard skills meant youknow, like getting along,
leadership, managing people, allthat kind of stuff.
But then the hard skills werethe gun and the tank.
Nikisha King (10:40):
Yes, it was taking people out.
You had to close your soft sideoff to be the person that
needed to survive in battlewhere your life is at risk.
So it's a military thing and itserves them, because they do.
To defend our freedom, todefend us, they literally have
to switch.
Hence the reason when they comeback, we should have a lot more
in place for them, becausethey're risking their well-being
(11:01):
for us, their well-being for us, and I get that and I think.
But I think in corporate, Ithink soft skills became soft.
I think it had a negativeconnotation.
In the army it didn't becauseit was required, but when it
became corporate, I think thatwas a negative connotation
because you still require humanskills.
You still require skills ofemotional intelligence to walk
(11:22):
in the room, read it, know howto negotiate, know how to
connect, because in businessit's not about what you know,
it's about who you know.
And if it's about who you know,we are required for emotional
intelligence.
I need to connect with you.
I need you to trust me andunderstand I got your back.
How can I do that in a veryshort period of time?
Right, so it's really not soft,it's a required skill.
(11:43):
But what I want to come back tois how can we identify it?
Because, as entrepreneurs whoare very hungry and growing and
that is who I'm working with, Iwork with beautiful, iconic CEOs
they have to have a team, likethey can't build an empire on
their own.
I don't believe we've builtanything on our own.
(12:04):
Usually in solitaire, we kindof lose it.
We lose a lot.
So how do we identify some ofthe mannerisms, the language
based on what you told us aboutself-regulation, self-awareness?
When do we know someone is notaware of their emotions and we
see them act out?
And if they do it, how do wehelp them become aware in that
(12:28):
situation?
Angie Lion (12:29):
I love that.
I think everybody is individualand we need to look at people
as individuals and find out whatthey know about themselves.
First, I like to have a deepconversation about what they're
aware about Like.
What are their strengths, whatare their weaknesses?
How good are they at awareabout Like.
What are their strengths, whatare their weaknesses?
How good are they at gettingfeedback?
Some people can tell you thatthey're good at these things in
their interviews because theirjob is to sell themselves right
(12:52):
In an interview and they've usedAI to be everything you want
and they're a match.
But then oftentimes they get inour organization and within six
months to eight months, the maskfalls off and it's kind of like
dating right.
So all of a sudden, here's whatyou actually have, and so we
start to see behaviors thatdon't align with you know what
was in the application.
(13:13):
And so for me, right at thatpoint is the opportunity to ask
to see how well they takefeedback, because somebody who
has a high emotionalintelligence actually and a
growth mindset mindset actuallywants to get better and they
actually want feedback because,hopefully, the culture that
they're working in is apsychologically safe culture
(13:33):
where the people that aresurrounding them, want to see
them do better, they want to seetheir growth, they want to
cultivate an atrium for humanflourishing in their
organization, and so many peopledon't come from those
environments.
And if they've got that baggagethat they're bringing into this
(13:53):
organization, you can find outpretty quickly if it's high or
low by the way they behave,because everything, all the
emotions, are going on under thesurface.
If you think of an iceberg, theemotions are all underneath
whatever's going on in theirlife.
What you see is the tip of theiceberg, which is the behaviors.
So people get hired for skillsand fired for behaviors.
Nikisha King (14:10):
Wow, that is so true.
That is so true.
Isn't that like weird?
We hire for skills but fire foremotion because they don't know
how to engage well with theirsupport or their team.
And that is true.
When we hire people, it's notlike we're hiring them to work
on their own.
They still have to communicate,they still have to engage with
people, but we don't, we don'thire on that, we don't be like
(14:33):
we're not trying to figure outwhat their skills are.
Emotional, I'm like this is sotrue.
I love that.
Yeah, let me ask you this inregards to let's do an example
If we had someone who was maybein a managerial role and they
had their team members or theirlower employee like not lower,
(14:54):
but employees that they wereoverseeing wasn't getting the
thing that they needed right,and they would have to repeat
several times to this person howto do it or something, and they
then became condescending, ortheir tone became condescending,
and the other members realizedthat how can we step in and help
(15:20):
that person?
What would that process looklike?
To bring them to awareness, tobring them to feedback?
What will we do in thatsituation?
Angie Lion (15:29):
Wonderful there's a few ways to do it.
One of the ways we do useassessments that kind of show
strengths and weaknesses andbehaviors and communication and
emotional intelligence.
We use all of them to help theperson have more self awareness
in the beginning and also beokay with talking about their
strengths and weaknesses.
I see those as indicator lightsand so if I were talking with
(15:50):
that person and we'd beenworking together, we would say,
like I'm noticing some of thestress indicator lights going
off for you, I would check inwith them how are you doing?
What are your challenges?
How can I support you?
Because I'm seeing somebehaviors that are not normal
for you.
You know you're not your bestself, behaviors, not your
strengths.
I'm seeing some of the theoverextensions, because any
(16:13):
strength overuse can become anoverextension.
Right and just like, if you'rea talkative person like myself,
if I get nervous and I continueto just talk and not listen,
well, that usually means I'mnervous or insecure or not
feeling good about myself.
So when I see those indicatorlights, it tells me to check in
with that person and find outwhat they need, what's stressing
(16:35):
them out, what emotions aregoing on under the surface.
We have 400 emotions a day, 26an hour, I want to say 40,000
thoughts a day and a lot ofemotions going on.
So we're complicated beings,right?
So sometimes it's just checkingin with that person and getting
a pulse, like think about thehealthcare, right.
Like checking their temperature, finding out.
(16:58):
One of the things I do is anemotion check-in with teams,
finding out right at thebeginning of the meeting, even
if it was on Zoom, and you coulduse a tool like a moodimeter
from Yale Center for EmotionalIntelligence or a feelings wheel
or something like that, whereeverybody shares what they're
actually feeling right at thatmoment before you start the
meeting, so that you can findout this person's anxious, this
(17:18):
person's frustrated, this personis overwhelmed as a leader.
When I find that out from myteam, I'm going to shift what we
need to talk about versuseverybody's feeling at ease and
chill and like excited.
As a leader, I can take thetemperature of my team and find
out.
Everybody's good, we can pushright now.
We can get this done.
(17:39):
Sometimes, when everybody onthe team is anxious and
resentful, I need to shift asthat leader.
Nikisha King (17:46):
Yes, but that needs awareness for us to shift.
If you're not aware.
You're going to push because wegot to get this thing done.
We don't care about yourfeelings, because your feelings
have nothing to do with thisbusiness.
Right?
That's the other outlook of it.
Let me ask you this what is thequestion to ask to get the
actual feeling of your teammembers?
Because when people get on ameeting, go hi everyone, how are
(18:07):
you guys today?
Oh, we're good, we're good,we're good, but you know that's
not the real feeling.
So what's a better question toask to get that real feeling.
Angie Lion (18:16):
So what's a better question to ask to get that real
feeling?
That's why I put an actualgraph up.
Let's say it's a Zoom meeting.
It can be just one that's inthe room on a PowerPoint.
It's just an emotion.
You can even have a handoutwith a moodimeter.
It shows you like 80, someemotions and it shows you what
color vibe you're in.
So people only have about avocabulary of three emotions
based on Brene Brown's research.
(18:36):
You know the mad, sad, glad,triad, right.
Or they know pissed off, I'mhappy or I'm sad.
Yeah but it's still the samefoundation mad, sad, angry.
So, expanding our vocabularyand having them create.
No, I'm actually feeling alittle overwhelmed.
I'm feeling, and now I know thedifference between overwhelm
and stress.
Overwhelm means I might need anintervention and I can't
(18:57):
continue, Whereas stress meansit's you know.
Is the stress too bad, Like youcan't handle it?
It's more about finding outwhere people actually are and
having the right vocabulary forthings so that they can name
their emotions, they can ask forthe help they need.
It's bringing awareness intoyour teams and to yourself as
the leader, because people can'tleave their emotions at the
(19:19):
door.
If they could, everybody wouldbe doing it.
They're human beings with 400emotions a day.
Nikisha King (19:23):
Right, and they do believe that they do, because
some people would tell you thatI.
What do they build inside ofthem?
You know what?
It is not dividers they.
They put it in this yes, theylove using that word to think
they are compartmentalizingtheir emotion.
So if I have to go to worktoday, I'm gonna put all of this
in a box.
But I'm gonna be honest with you, it never lives in a box.
(19:45):
It's your subconscious behaviorto do things without
recognizing you're doing it.
So when you think you'reputting that situation that
makes you feel really upset in abox and you walk in and someone
says good morning and you goand you think the grunt was a
hello, the grunt's not a hello.
That is the issue you put inthe compartment.
It is not.
You did not move that to the,and that's the thing about it.
(20:07):
We really believe we havecompartments, but on a real
level.
The people who docompartmentalize we call them
multiple personality disorderslevel.
The people who docompartmentalize we call them
multiple personality disordersthat's the ones that we know
compartmentalize when theyliterally change the identity of
self to cope with whateverthey're struggling with.
So that's the extreme of that.
But what I want to know is thatnow we understand the behavior
(20:32):
you gave us a tactic about.
When you're at a meeting, showsome form of a wheel, emotional
wheel, or a sign that someonecan relate to.
But I'm going to be honest withyou, no matter where we are on
a small business level, if Ihave like five or 10 people, I
can maybe do that and get awaywith them being honest, because
the culture I've cultivated.
(20:52):
Now, if I have a hundred peoplebut I'm on a meeting with 20 of
them to tell me their realfeeling of anxious overwhelm
makes them look like they don'tknow what they're doing, how, as
a leader, do we give people thecomfort to be honest with their
feelings?
And how, as a leader, althoughwe need to generate revenue to
pay their payjack, how, as aleader, do we support that right
(21:18):
there, in that moment?
What can we say?
What can we do to give them thespace to feel their feelings
but still take it to the nextlevel, where we work on the
project or the agenda.
Angie Lion (21:28):
Yeah, well, I think it's seeing them as a human
being that has struggles andchallenges.
And when people feel caredabout and they feel like
somebody has their back and theyfeel seen and they feel heard,
they'll go out of their way tomake your company thrive.
That's so true and I think weskip this step and think we got
business to do and we need toget A, b and C and we go
(21:49):
straight into tasks.
Sometimes that five minutecheck-in is all they needed and
then you follow up with them asthe leader later, because you
don't have time in the meetingto address everybody's feelings.
But if I know that so-and-so isoverwhelmed or feeling anxious,
I can do a touch-in with themlater and ask them hey, I
noticed you mentioned and evenif it's just in a waterfall in
(22:11):
the chat they put in twofeelings.
They don't have to, like goaround the room if you got 100
people on the Zoom, you just putit in the chat to two feelings
you're currently feeling.
People generally type those inthe more psychological safety
you bring into your companywhere they can share how they
feel what's going on.
It takes time to build thattrust and it takes time to build
(22:33):
psychological safety becauseyou don't know what backgrounds
they came from or what otherbosses they've had.
So you, as the leader, arecreating the atrium for them to
grow and to share those feelings.
They're not gonna come in anddo it right out of the gate and
tell you their soul, theirdeepest, darkest things, but
I'll tell you.
Sometimes you open the door andthey will walk right through it
(22:53):
and then you find out what'sactually going on in their life
and then, once you know that,you start to understand.
This is why these behaviors areshowing up.
They're actually gettingdivorced, they're living in
their car, their teenagedaughter is pregnant.
They, you know, you name it.
You find things out and thenit's like well, I know a lot of
leaders are like, well, that'snot my business, you know.
(23:15):
Then it's like, well, I know alot of leaders are like, well,
that's not my business, you know.
But if an employee is givingyou more time than they are
their own family of their life,it's your business to care about
them as a human being, andsometimes that might be offering
them an EAP.
Sometimes that might beoffering them you need to take a
couple of days just to get yourlife in order.
You can't function when you areon the bottom of Maslow's
(23:36):
hierarchy.
Again, what's EAP?
Employee Assistance Program,maybe like some counseling
things like that, somethingwhere Coaching?
Nikisha King (23:44):
counseling, other services, Coaching counseling
some support.
Angie Lion (23:46):
Maybe you can't, maybe that you don't have the
capacity, but you can give themanother.
Or maybe you are that personthat is not their counselor, but
you're offering support, you'reasking them what they need,
you're seeing them that theyactually when some.
If you think about Maslow'shierarchy, the bottom of it is,
you know, food and shelter, andthen we start to get into other
(24:08):
needs.
When we lose those main things,we aren't in a place to learn
and we're not in a place to growor to thrive.
And so it's important to knowif your employees have, you know
, went from the top to thebottom like chutes and ladders.
Life happens that way sometimesyou could be on the top the ceo
and the next thing you knowyour life is upside down because
(24:29):
you are going through a divorceand you're going through
trouble things with your kids.
Life happens, we have lifequakes and it's important to
know where people are and tokind of meet them there and see
how you support them throughthat time, because sometimes
when we intervene we can speedup the process, because we can
give them help, the support andeverything that they need so
that they can start to thrive inour organization.
(24:51):
Some people start to live inthat space and that's when we
have to find out if they'repoachable or if they need to
exit the organization.
Like you know, there's.
We need to find out what'sactually going on.
But if you've had a, I think assomebody that we worked with,
they had a.
This executive had a topperformer and all of a sudden
she called us and said I don'tknow what to do with Gloria.
She's not thriving anymore.
(25:12):
And we walked her through oneof our models, you know, as it
relates to human motivation, andit's like did you check her car
, her competence, her autonomyand her relatedness and her in
her job?
Yes, I went through all ofthese things.
How about at home?
Well, no, I don't want to talkto her about her home life.
Okay, just trust us, just askher, just open the door.
So she has the conversation.
(25:33):
She opens the door and Gloriawalks right through the door and
shares yes, I'm gettingdivorced, my teenage daughter's
pregnant and my mother-in-law'smoving in.
Wow, so we learn that?
Yeah, so by learning a littlebit more, we go all right.
How do we support Gloriathrough this?
Maybe she needs two or threedays off to like clear her head.
Maybe she needs an employeeassistance program.
(25:54):
Maybe her coworkers ask her ifshe's open to sharing with her
coworkers, because she reallydoes connect well with her team
and if they knew that she wasstruggling, maybe they can offer
her to go for a walk or to ventor to do something.
But it's really a team, it'sreally caring about your team,
just like you were a sports team, right?
Like, how do we help you bemore, perform better?
(26:16):
We need to support you so thatyou can perform better.
Nikisha King (26:20):
Right, it is a cycle.
Yeah, you have a team and yousupport your team.
They support you in thebusiness that they come to every
day and give eight plus hoursto and as a leader, it's one of
the things I love aboutleadership.
We define leaders or leadershipin different ways.
One is a drill sergeant, one iscompassionate, one is about
(26:44):
helping people rise and level upand they don't hear where they
stand on that and that's reallygood.
But I've always been into howcan I help my team?
And there was a recentsituation where I had a
contractor who was working withme doing really well and the
things that I desired from them.
I don't know if it wasemotional intelligence, but I
wanted them to feel what I wasfeeling for the people we were
(27:07):
serving.
I served women entrepreneurs.
I wanted them and they'refemale, the contractor and I
wanted them to understand whatwe were doing was to help them.
And at this moment she had lostone of her.
She lost a grandparent and myfirst thing was like, if you
lost a grandparent, like taketime.
But in her circumstance, takingtime means no income and she
wasn't willing to jeopardizethat, but her work was
(27:28):
jeopardized and I was just likeokay, so what I did?
I said I had to pause and Istarted to.
I usually am aware to the faultwhere I'm like okay, nikisha,
how can I be better in this?
Right, how can I create easiersystems?
I always go to me first.
I have nothing to do withanyone.
I'm like listen, I understand,but how can I make the system
better?
So your brain power doesn'thave to be used up so much.
(27:50):
But I can support you in thatway and we're planning to
revisit and work together again.
And in that situation, that wassomething where, as much as I
wanted her to take time off togrieve, she didn't feel like she
could because her shelter, herfood was at risk.
And I just feel like these arethe moments where I learn and
(28:11):
I'm like okay, because as Ibuild this empire that I'm
desiring and I'm working towards, it will be massive.
But having an EAP program,having this point where you
could take bereavement for acertain amount of time and, yes,
you still can get paid, so youstill can enjoy your labor and
time you've put with us, how dowe support you?
And I think, as CEOs, we don'treally transform into that.
(28:34):
So what I want to talk to youabout is the next part, the
transitional I or intelligence.
And one, I want you to tell usa little bit of what that means.
And two, what do we, as womenentrepreneurs who are in the
creative field, have totransform into to become our
future self, the woman who wewant to develop into, or the man
(28:56):
or the non whatever non-binarythat who do we need to become in
regards to our transitionalintelligence, to step into that
person that we desire, thatmillionaire, that whatever
you're looking to do doesn'thave to be financial, but
whatever we do, we always bringin the revenue, especially if
we're really good at it.
What do you need to do to stepinto that next stage?
(29:17):
So tell us what TI means and gointo that.
Angie Lion (29:20):
Okay, it can be called TI or TQ, just like
emotional intelligence oremotional quotient.
It's basically your ability tonavigate change with awareness,
adaptability and with skills,and TQ is a measurement that
it's how well you move throughthose life changes and
transitions aren't just one timeevents in our lives.
They're cycles of endings andbeginnings, and there's endings,
(29:44):
there's messy middles andthere's new beginnings.
So first of all, I would wantto identify where you are in
this transition.
First of all, you probably havea lot of transitions going on
in your life that you've nevereven thought about.
Some of us are good at endingsand we don't mind the endings,
and that's okay.
Some of us are good at messymiddles and we don't mind that
(30:07):
uncertainty and that in-betweenphase where things feel unclear.
And some of us are better atnew beginnings, loving having a
fresh identity and a perspectiveor a new chapter.
So I would first start toidentify where you are in this
transition.
So let's just talk about for amoment there's a lot of
different transitions that canbe going on, but let's just take
(30:29):
this to career-based right,because we could be having
physical transitions in our body, such as menopause, such as a
health diagnosis, but thinkabout it from the professional.
We'll stay in that realm.
But where are you?
Are you thinking about leavingyour job and starting a business
(30:52):
that you know there's an endingcoming?
You know it's coming, you'reafraid to take the leap.
You're wondering.
You know you have a lot ofwonder and curiosity and also a
lot of fear around.
We'll talk about threats in aminute.
But there's a lot, of, a lot ofcuriosity and also a calling.
There's a soulful piece thatfor me it's like a life is
(31:14):
calling.
Your soul is calling and youknow you want to do this thing
and it keeps coming up, but youjust are afraid to leave the
comfort of for me it was highereducation, because it's a safe
job, right.
Nikisha King (31:26):
It is yeah, the safe the quotes.
If you can't see the quotes,safe is a yes, that's a good one
Go ahead.
Angie Lion (31:32):
It had, you know, a steady income.
I could get, you know,professional development.
I had really state benefits,all of the things.
So it was a safe job for me.
But I knew that I wanted toserve more.
I knew I wanted to be abusiness owner.
I knew I wanted to help peoplein a capacity where I get to
call their shots as far as whatI can do, because oftentimes
(31:55):
those institutions that we workin keep us held back from some
of the skills and talents thatwe want to offer.
So I knew for me, when I wasleaving higher ed, that I was.
I wanted to, but I had fear ofthe money part, the scarcity
mindset, right Of what, and sounderstanding that I was
struggling to let that ending go.
And you know, but it, it.
(32:15):
It didn't take too long before Iwas ready to.
I was go, and you know, but itdidn't take too long before I
was ready to.
I was in it and I took the leap.
And then I was in the messymiddle of starting a business.
And then you start to learnwhen you go from working for
someone to be an entrepreneur,then you're in the middle of oh
wait, I'm the marketer, I'm theaccountant.
I'm the business owner.
(32:35):
You're everything.
I'm the marketer.
Nikisha King (32:36):
I'm the accountant , I'm the business owner, you're
everything.
Angie Lion (32:37):
Then you're just in the soup of all of it right.
Nikisha King (32:40):
Yes, and the messy middle?
I don't believe needs to bemessy.
I believe we choose messybecause we get in our head about
all the things rather thangoing.
Let me sit down, let meorganize the mess, let me find
help.
Angie Lion (32:56):
Let me sit down.
Let me organize the mess.
Let me find help.
Let me find help.
A guide, a coach, a mentor,somebody that has done this
before, somebody that knows,who's been in the field.
So there's guides for the messymiddle.
That's what I love doing.
I just got goosebumps.
Nikisha King (33:08):
That was such a good one.
Angie Lion (33:09):
I need a guide when I'm in the middle, and even as
somebody who does it for otherpeople, I need somebody,
somebody who does it for otherpeople.
Nikisha King (33:16):
I need somebody.
We all do.
The thing about it now iscoaching became relevant and it
became in.
It became available to peoplewho could afford it.
We don't realize.
We had Earl Nightingale, we hadNapoleon Hill, do you not
understand?
That's what they were.
They were business coaches.
They didn't have the title, butthat is who they were.
And back then women didn't work, men did, and that's who they
(33:37):
went to so they can climb thatcorporate ladder.
That's who they listened to.
And today we just have moreaccess and more people, and now
the market's a little bit open.
So now you could find yourperson.
So you're 100% right Findsomeone to guide you through
your messy middle.
I love that, and as a coach,maybe you, you can't take that
(34:01):
leap.
Angie Lion (34:01):
So you need somebody to help walk along with, to you
know, to offer support, becausecoaches don't make your
decisions for you.
They only question you and helpyou.
They bring out what's alreadyinside.
You already are a gem.
It's chipping away some of thethings that the beliefs and the
thoughts of that you know, maybeholding you back.
So the new beginning is for me.
(34:22):
I love new beginnings, I love afresh new month.
You know, I love the freshidentity.
I love like I get to be who Iwant.
I'm deciding I created.
Now I'm the chief sole officer.
I'm not a CEO, I'm the chiefsole officer of my company
because I get to decide what Iam and who I am.
And and titles to me aren't even.
(34:43):
You know it's something I do,but who am I right?
Who am I as an essence and as abeing?
That's to this in this phase oflife.
I'm really in that phase of whoam I as a being, not as a title
, what does not what my resumesays, but who do I want to be
who?
What do I?
My eulogy to look like?
Like that is where I'm at inlife.
(35:03):
Now I know the first part oflife.
We are hustling and we'retrying to, like you know, follow
the success scripts of life andwhatever other people are
telling us, but really slowingdown and finding out who you are
is super important to listeningto your inner calling and to
not drowning it out and doingwhat everybody else is doing and
(35:24):
figuring out what your soul iscalling you to do and stop
following everybody else'ssuccess script for your life.
Nikisha King (35:31):
I love that.
That's very powerful, that isvery true, I believe, when you
connect to who you truly are asa spiritual being because I
always tell people I'm aspiritual being first and then
I'm having a human experienceand I love my human experience
because it's 50-50.
There is no good, there is nobad, it just is.
And in that journey I get tolearn and I get to develop more
(35:53):
and I allow my spiritual beingto step out.
And that's what you're talkingabout the soul, the soul, the
chief soul officer.
And when we show up that way,we connect, we build a lot of
connection and we serve.
I no longer sell things as abusiness owner.
I don't have to sell anything.
I listen well and I go can Isolve this problem or can I help
(36:14):
solve this problem?
And if the answer is yes, Iwill let you know how and I will
let you choose if you desirethat help or not.
And half of the time whenpeople are in all the messes the
beginning, the middle and theend they think they can't afford
it, because they put money asan objection.
And I go, it's not aboutaffording it, you don't
prioritize it because your valueof self is low, because you
(36:36):
don't think you're worth it.
Oh yeah, yes, but being who I am, I know you're worth it and I
know the gift that you have wasmeant to be to serve the people
you're here to serve.
So I'm going to tell you thehonest truth about what's
happening and then you get tolook at that.
But I'm not here to convinceyou because I do not want to
work with anyone.
I had to convince.
(36:56):
I do not want you to be in myrealm because you won't show up
for yourself.
But I know, if you trustyourself, love yourself and
believe in yourself, I will beyour biggest cheerleader, your
biggest guide, your biggestsupporter, and that is what I do
today.
But I do not sell anything.
I don't require sellinganything.
I don't want to sell anythingbecause I don't want anyone who
don't want to show up forthemselves.
Angie Lion (37:18):
I don't want to chase anything, you don't ever
need that place in my business,like I don't in my relationships
.
I just don't want to chaseanything.
I want to attract what is meantto attract and be with people
who value my skills andexpertise as well, and ever
since I've made that shift andnot chasing or it really does
(37:38):
it's kind of like clingy energy.
Nobody really likes that.
Nikisha King (37:41):
I have a situation with the word clingy and chase
and let me share with why.
Okay, when you say the wordchase, the first visual I get is
running behind someone.
And in what I do, there issomeone who's going to try to
run.
But I don't, I'm not chasing,but I will go.
You need to stop running.
I will.
(38:01):
And the reason I say that isbecause it can still be looking
like it could still look likeI'm chasing them, but I don't
want to give up on you yet.
I want to make sure, as you'rerunning, I'll run beside you and
I'm going to listen to you.
So I'm still running with you,but I'm going to say are you
sure?
And I'm going to show you thethings that's in your way, and
(38:22):
you get to look at them, becauseright now you can't see them.
And the reason I say that isbecause sometimes some people
feel like they're chasing peopleand when they use that word and
they have the visual, they stopin the middle of the
possibility of helping thatperson because they feel like
they're chasing, if that makessense.
Angie Lion (38:39):
I love that visual.
Does that make sense?
I completely see where you'regoing.
You're making sure that theyhave all the opportunities
before they turn it down, kindof.
Nikisha King (38:51):
Yes and I don't need to, and some people think
of it chasing.
So when you say to me, whathappens is some people who use
that as an excuse not to keepgoing is to go.
If someone says, well, I don'thave money, they go.
I'm not going to chase you, butthat objection about money is
not real, so what I need to dois go.
Ok, you're saying you don'thave money.
(39:11):
I understand that.
But let me ask you this If youget off the phone call today,
will your life change?
Will this situation?
You told me where you want togo and where you are today will
it?
Will it change?
And if they say no, then it'sstill my obligation to
understand.
Then how important is this toyou?
Yes?
So when you tell me your moneyobjection, I cannot say I'm not
(39:34):
going to chase you and let yougo because I'm not serving you.
But if I go, help, wait, holdon.
Let me understand this, let mebe there with you, let me help,
let me understand so I can helpyou.
I want to walk beside you.
I don't want your money becausein your mind, that's what you
think I want.
So your first objection is Idon't have money, your money,
because in your mind, that'swhat you think I want.
So your first objection is Idon't have money, but no one's
(39:54):
after you for your money.
I truly want to help you and Iknow I have what it takes to
help you, if you just trust you.
Because sometimes people don'ttrust themselves.
That's part of the triad ofselling.
They don't believe they can doit, they don't believe they can
transform and I'm like no, youcan, I can see it.
All you need help with isseeing it for yourself.
Yeah, so that's what I saybecause sometimes, as
(40:15):
entrepreneurs, we do use thesewords that I don't believe are
ours.
I truly don't.
I believe they were given to usthrough marketing and they
sometimes don't serve us becauseof the thought we have with
that visual.
They create emotions.
I don't want to chase you.
That is not a I'm happy motiondoesn't come from that
terminology, but I just wantedto share that with you and my
(40:36):
listeners, because sometimes Isee people do that.
I'm not chasing no one, butit's not from a place of how can
I help you?
And let me go deeper.
It's a place from I wasrejected and I'm hurt and since
I'm hurt, I'm not going to doyou understand Like not you can
say, but I've seen people dothat.
I'm a create boundaries and I'mjust like the boundary.
(40:58):
What kind of you creating?
Are you shutting people outbecause you've been hurt or you
creating boundaries that willprotect you to be better for the
people you serve?
There's two different types.
Angie Lion (41:07):
Well, I see that as a wall, not a boundary.
And they would use the wordboundary.
But yes, you get it Like that.
It's not permeable.
It is not creating a space forboth parties to be successful.
A healthy boundary creates aspace for both people to be
successful?
Yes, and it gives thempermission to know what's to be
expected, and it is designed tohelp people.
(41:30):
It's not designed to shutpeople out.
Nikisha King (41:34):
And people use that boundary word like a war
word, but they don't know thedifference.
And it's not that they're doingit on purpose.
It's the emotion that's drivingthat word out their mouth.
That's why listening is socrucial, because you hear things
and what they think they'resaying.
You're like wait a minute,something else is happening here
.
Angie Lion (41:54):
Yes.
Nikisha King (41:54):
And that's the joy that I have.
That's the gift that I wasgiven.
That's the gift that I lovewith all my being.
Yeah.
Angie Lion (42:00):
Yeah, can I address that boundary piece?
Because this is something thatI was.
I'm talking about it in my book, too, because I am seeing a
problem with people bounding upso much that they're losing
relationships.
Estrangement is higher thanit's ever been and I think a lot
of it is because things comeout of context in our in fast
places like TikTok and Instagramand they learn a thing or two
(42:23):
about a boundary, and so nowthey're like yep, I'm doing this
, I'm, you're out here, you know, and it's just context matters
in everything.
And it's just context mattersin everything, and it's
sometimes we need to slow downand we need to ask more
questions and we need to bebecome more curious.
One of the tools that I've beenusing in in creating boundaries
because I do think they'rehealthy, but, like I said you,
(42:45):
we want to create boundariesthat create connection, so that
we're setting someone theboundary isn't to create
disconnection, unless it's anabuse.
Abuse is different, right, butwe're just talking about in a
relationship at work or in ourfamilies, where we want that
relationship.
I've been using Brene Brown'smodel, which is living big,
(43:05):
which is you're creatingboundaries, you're being in
integrity and you havegenerosity, so let's just talk
about.
We know what the boundary partis, but the boundary should
create a space where that personknows what to do to be
successful in this relationship.
I will accept this.
I won't accept that.
Right Now, then, integrity beingwhole and actually living in
(43:28):
your values.
You say you value kindness, oryou say value kindness, or you
say you value respect, or yousay you value whatever it is
that we value.
Right, each of us have our owndifferent values, but are you in
integrity with your values andin alignment with those values
that you speak of?
And then so it's aself-check-in, right.
Am I actually being kind?
Am I being loving,compassionate, because these are
values that I have?
(43:49):
So am I?
I have to check myself and mythen.
So it's a self-check-in, right.
Am I actually being kind?
Am I being loving,compassionate, because these are
values that I have?
So am I.
I have to check myself and myboundaries.
Is this boundary that I'msetting loving, compassionate,
kind and clear?
And then genera is it generous?
Am I giving them the benefit ofthe doubt, or am I holding, or
am I punishing, or am I using,let's say, children as a pawn or
(44:14):
whatever Like?
Is this a generous?
Am I being generous to thisperson Because I know I would
want people, if they're creatinga boundary with me, to be
loving, to be kind, to be clear,so I know what to be, to do to
be successful.
And then are they beinggenerous with me, that I too
want to succeed.
I want a healthy relationship.
I'm not trying to make theirlife miserable.
Nikisha King (44:35):
Right right, angie , I appreciate you so much.
You share a wealth of knowledgeFor myself, for my listeners,
for some people.
I'm coaching some people.
I know I cannot wait to sharethis episode with them.
I would like to wrap it up andI would like you to leave us
with maybe three things that wecan do to help us with our
emotional intelligence.
Angie Lion (44:57):
Go ahead, I didn't get to the fear part and I think
that would be one of the beststeps is to understand and
identify some of the fears thatyou have, because I think fear
is one of the most powerfulemotions.
Our brain is wired for it tokeep us alive.
Nikisha King (45:13):
So I and we can always bring that back.
We can always do anotherepisode on that, because a lot
of people have that and we canmake a discussion over that one.
Angie Lion (45:20):
So I'd like people to identify their fears in and
in their transition, like ifthey're coming to an end.
What emotions are they actuallyexperiencing as they're coming
to an end?
What emotions are they actuallyexperiencing as they're coming
to an end, is it?
You know what is?
What are the fears?
Uncertainty, fear of not beinggood enough, things like that.
So they start to uncover theactual fears that they have with
their self.
(45:41):
Then take it a little bitbroader to what are the fears as
it relates to their family andtheir close community, right?
What are the fears or thebeliefs that they have in that
realm?
Write all of those down.
What are those fears?
That they don't want you to besuccessful, that they won't like
your decisions, that they'regoing to think you're dumb from
leaving that safe job, right?
(46:03):
What are those fears?
And then the larger picturewhat are the fears or the
threats as it relates to the,the larger community, the world?
So we have all these fears andso sometimes getting clear about
them and finding out what'sactual fear versus what's a
perceived fear as we perceivesome of them that aren't real,
(46:23):
and that's where the guides cancome in and help us ask
questions, find out more aboutwhat's an actual fear?
Will that really happen?
If it does, what's worst casefear?
Will that really happen?
If it does, what's worst casescenario?
You know, like all of thesekinds of things.
So finding a guide is going tobe the biggest way to see your
blind spots and have somebodyquestion you and give you
different, diverse perspectives,diversity of thought and and
(46:47):
being okay with sharing thoseemotions that you're having,
because you have to name them,to tame them.
Nikisha King (46:52):
So true.
Thank you, angie, and I lovethe last line you just gave.
You have to name them to tamethem.
So good.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for sharing a wealthof knowledge.
I look forward to having youback and we can speak about the
next topic, fear, which is agood one, because fear is false
evidence appearing real.
It's not really real.
So I'm looking forward to thatconversation.
(47:13):
Listeners, thank you guys somuch for being here.
Thank you for always investingyour time with us, and I hope
not even hope I know the valueyou're taking away from here,
because this is work that wehave to do, the deep work to be
the leaders who we are or we'rebecoming.
So definitely join me for mynext masterclass and USC
(47:34):
information in the show notes,and I will definitely have other
information for you guys.
Have an amazing day and see younext week.
Announcer (47:42):
Thank you for joining us today on Leading Her Way.
We loved having you with us.
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(48:05):
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There you'll find tools tostreamline, organize and grow
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Keep moving forward and we'llbe right here to cheer you on
next week.
Welcome to Leading Her Way with your host and
business guru, Nakesha King.
This podcast is the ultimatedestination for women, creative
entrepreneurs, who want to breakfree from burnout.
If you are overwhelmed byclient demands and feel like
you're doing this all alone, you, my friend, are in the right
(00:23):
place alone.
You, my friend, are in theright place Now.
Let's dive in for steps to takeback your time and simplify
your workflow.
All right, Nikisha, take itaway.
Nikisha King (00:36):
Hello everyone, welcome to Leading Her Way
podcast.
I'm your host, nikisha, andtoday we have an amazing guest
with us.
I have Angie Leone from BlackRiver Performance Management
Company, and today we have somegreat topics for you.
We're going to be talking aboutemotional intelligence.
As team members, so, as youknow, as our creative
(00:56):
entrepreneurs, we hire orcontract virtual assistants,
online business managers andanytime, we work with anyone,
even our family.
Yes, everyone has emotionalintelligence, everyone has
feelings, and these feelingssometimes affect their actions
and they can show up differently, in different ways at different
(01:17):
times.
So I'm going to say welcome,angie.
Thank you for coming andsharing your wealth of knowledge
with us.
I'm excited because I thinktoday we're going to be talking
about emotional intelligence andtransitional intelligence, and
that's a real good one for ouramazing entrepreneurs who are
listening today, and you'regoing to find out why, so just
keep listening.
(01:38):
So, angie, please introduceyourself and tell us a little
bit more about your company, howit came to be.
Are you working it alone?
Do you have a partner by yourside?
I'm all ears.
Angie Lion (01:53):
Thank you for this opportunity to share my story
and to just share some of thewisdom that I've been able to
cultivate in my long time onthis planet.
So emotional intelligence isthe skill that I didn't have
early on.
This will kind of share how itcame to be and how my business
came to be.
So I started off working in theoperating room and working with
surgeons and I started to workwith really intelligent people
(02:15):
and some of them had very highemotional intelligence and could
really get their teams to bendover backwards for them and feel
like they were a part of theteam.
They could make the team kindof work like a symphony.
And then I noticed otherleaders because the surgeon is
the leader in the room how theycould come in and create chaos
and bring the weather into thatroom and I would notice how it
(02:36):
would be fearful and it would bea place where people wouldn't
speak up and they would do somekind of lateral violent
behaviors and ultimately I sawthis as something that would
impact the patient, even thoughthey wouldn't want it to.
Things might take longer,things might not be lined up
because people might be passive,aggressive.
So I started to notice howintelligence and emotional
(02:57):
intelligence weren't the samething, and at the time I was
starting to teach at Boise StateUniversity and the College of
Western Idaho.
I was starting to teach at BoiseState University and the
College of Western Idaho and Iwas in some courses to learn
about teaching and workplacetraining and leadership, and I
took a class where I had towrite a paper on emotional
intelligence and I came acrossDaniel Goldman's work and then I
(03:17):
realized, wow, this is what Idon't have a lot of.
And also I noticed that a lot ofthe people that I work with you
know this is the skill, thoughit's something that can be built
, and at first I thought it wassomething that you know, you
were born with, or some peoplewere really good at this, and
then I learned just like surgery, you can learn anything as a
(03:38):
skill.
I can learn to do a total kneejust as much as I can learn to
do a facelift, as I can learn tofix.
You know, take out yourappendix.
So when I think about theskills for the job, emotional
intelligence, when I was gettingthe students ready, was the
skill that the employers werelooking for, and when we're
running a business, this issomething we're looking for as
(03:59):
well when we're hiring someoneis that some.
We want somebody thatunderstands their own emotions,
understands the emotions ofother people and are able to
basically play well in thesandbox.
Nikisha King (04:11):
So so wait before you keep going.
This is so good.
Emotional intelligence is verydifferent from intelligence.
I want to repeat that again forthe people all the way in the
back Emotional intelligence isdifferent from intelligence.
Now, Angie, the reason I canlike so empathize or relate to
(04:31):
what you're saying is because mybackground started in health
and when I worked in a hospitalfacility, the emotional
intelligence was lacking.
You had a building full ofintelligent human beings who
were skilled in what they did,but bedside manners OMG, where
did they go?
I've even had people come to mewith some energy and I was like
(04:52):
I don't ever want to see youagain.
You are not my physician.
We are going to go to someoneelse in your practice because
they lack the EI.
So I think having people evenhear that and bringing it to the
consciousness of our minds isso cool, because every day we
interact with people and doesn'tmean everyone has the emotional
(05:13):
intelligence in theirinteraction.
There are a lot of CEOs that Ispeak to who will always
complain about the dynamics ofhaving a team and sometimes I
wonder if it's because theydon't relate well or they relate
so much.
Some of them run their companythrough their emotions and I'm
like hold up, you got to pullback some of that emotion,
(05:34):
because this is too much forthis environment.
You want people to help you.
You don't want people whodepend on you while you're
running a business.
Absolutely want people whodepend on you while you're
running a business, and that isa possibility too right, so it
still has some form of balanceto it, even where we work, in
the workplace.
Now let's talk about what itlooks like in the workplace.
(05:55):
How can we identify whensomeone either a CEO, an
entrepreneur, a team member,which are employee or a
contractor?
How can we recognize whensomeone does have emotional
intelligence and when someone'slacking it?
Okay, that's a great question.
Angie Lion (06:14):
Well, first of all, I will just say that most people
think they have it, most peoplethink they have it and other
people don't think that otherpeople don't have it.
So that's a place to reallystart, and I think we have to be
really honest with ourselves isthat we all can improve, and to
think that I'm superior to youis a hard place to be.
I think it's more like aculture that we are creating in
(06:37):
our workplace of we all haveroom to grow.
We're a learning and growingculture and we're going to be
offering feedback to one anotherso that we can grow, because we
all do have blind spots.
So I think, if we see it fromthat type of perspective where
we, even as the leader, say I'mthe CEO, I have room to improve
(06:58):
in this area as well.
I know I don't handle thingswell when I'm stressed.
These are some of my shadowbehaviors or these are some of
my overextensions, and so I'mworking to improve my snappiness
or my critical nature or myover-talkativeness when I get
insecure, right?
So really it's building theculture and that's where we come
(07:20):
in with culture work to helporganizations understand that
wanna be learning and growingand improving consistently, that
they are creating theenvironment for people to know
the language, because in aculture we need a language,
right?
So when we're talking aboutemotional intelligence, what
does that even mean to you,right?
And so we want to define EQ.
(07:41):
Eq or EI is the same thing.
It means your emotionalquotient, so, or, and it's
basically a measurement of howyou use your emotions to benefit
yourself and for the benefit ofothers, the same way that IQ is
how intelligent you are, right.
But the thing about IQ is thatit does.
It's kind of fixed.
It's more crystallized whereemotional intelligence is
(08:04):
something we can grow, and it'sa skill that the more you grow
it, the more you're going to beneeded, the more you're going to
make.
The research shows that themore money you'll make, the more
you'll be promoted, the moreyour relationships will thrive,
and so this is why I've spent alot of time in my life improving
my own and working to helpothers improve theirs.
So I think it really comes downto the culture and defining it.
(08:24):
And then what does that entail?
When we define it, we break itdown into five components, which
is self-awareness, which is thefirst step.
We can't do anything if we'renot self-aware.
And only 15% of the population,across all industries, are
actually self-aware, buteverybody thinks they are.
So we have to gain moreawareness and with more
awareness then we can become toregulate better.
(08:48):
Regulate when we're upset.
How are we going to handle this?
To make better decisions?
And then also so the self part.
There's three components thatare self self-awareness,
self-regulation and then our ownmotivation.
And how do our moods, how arethose impacted by?
How do those impact ourmotivation?
And how do we motivateourselves when we don't feel
like doing things?
Because we all know there'stimes where we don't feel like
(09:09):
doing things that are good forus, like going to the gym.
Well, how do I go, even when Idon't feel like?
Or getting up early even when Idon't feel like it, those types
of things.
And then we have the componentthat's more relationship
management, which is your socialawareness how you read a room,
how you understand, feel theenergy, understand when's an
appropriate time to have thediscussion.
And then also, how do youregulate?
(09:31):
Once you become more aware, howdo you regulate yourself or
regulate the emotions of otherpeople and help deescalate them?
So it's human skills.
I hate that they're called softskills.
Nikisha King (09:42):
Why you don't think they're soft.
Wait, wait.
Do you hate that it's calledsoft skills?
Because the word soft for youmeans like how people say you're
girly.
Is that how you interpret soft?
Angie Lion (09:53):
I don't know why I hate it.
That's a really good question.
I've never been asked that.
Nikisha King (09:58):
But I think, think about it, because it's like
you're soft.
We've come to live in anenvironment where it's either
you're soft or you're hard right, and usually we even identify
that as feminine energy andmasculine energy.
We love to give things labels,labels that don't even matter.
So point blank is just a skill.
It's not human, it's not softand it's not hard.
(10:19):
It is a skill because it'sacquired through learning.
I love that.
That's all it is.
Angie Lion (10:25):
I do know where it came from and it helps me
understand where the term camefrom now.
It's the soft skills meanthuman skills, for the military,
and the hard skills meant youknow, like getting along,
leadership, managing people, allthat kind of stuff.
But then the hard skills werethe gun and the tank.
Nikisha King (10:40):
Yes, it was taking people out.
You had to close your soft sideoff to be the person that
needed to survive in battlewhere your life is at risk.
So it's a military thing and itserves them, because they do.
To defend our freedom, todefend us, they literally have
to switch.
Hence the reason when they comeback, we should have a lot more
in place for them, becausethey're risking their well-being
(11:01):
for us, their well-being for us, and I get that and I think.
But I think in corporate, Ithink soft skills became soft.
I think it had a negativeconnotation.
In the army it didn't becauseit was required, but when it
became corporate, I think thatwas a negative connotation
because you still require humanskills.
You still require skills ofemotional intelligence to walk
(11:22):
in the room, read it, know howto negotiate, know how to
connect, because in businessit's not about what you know,
it's about who you know.
And if it's about who you know,we are required for emotional
intelligence.
I need to connect with you.
I need you to trust me andunderstand I got your back.
How can I do that in a veryshort period of time?
Right, so it's really not soft,it's a required skill.
(11:43):
But what I want to come back tois how can we identify it?
Because, as entrepreneurs whoare very hungry and growing and
that is who I'm working with, Iwork with beautiful, iconic CEOs
they have to have a team, likethey can't build an empire on
their own.
I don't believe we've builtanything on our own.
(12:04):
Usually in solitaire, we kindof lose it.
We lose a lot.
So how do we identify some ofthe mannerisms, the language
based on what you told us aboutself-regulation, self-awareness?
When do we know someone is notaware of their emotions and we
see them act out?
And if they do it, how do wehelp them become aware in that
(12:28):
situation?
Angie Lion (12:29):
I love that.
I think everybody is individualand we need to look at people
as individuals and find out whatthey know about themselves.
First, I like to have a deepconversation about what they're
aware about Like.
What are their strengths, whatare their weaknesses?
How good are they at awareabout Like.
What are their strengths, whatare their weaknesses?
How good are they at gettingfeedback?
Some people can tell you thatthey're good at these things in
their interviews because theirjob is to sell themselves right
(12:52):
In an interview and they've usedAI to be everything you want
and they're a match.
But then oftentimes they get inour organization and within six
months to eight months, the maskfalls off and it's kind of like
dating right.
So all of a sudden, here's whatyou actually have, and so we
start to see behaviors thatdon't align with you know what
was in the application.
(13:13):
And so for me, right at thatpoint is the opportunity to ask
to see how well they takefeedback, because somebody who
has a high emotionalintelligence actually and a
growth mindset mindset actuallywants to get better and they
actually want feedback because,hopefully, the culture that
they're working in is apsychologically safe culture
(13:33):
where the people that aresurrounding them, want to see
them do better, they want to seetheir growth, they want to
cultivate an atrium for humanflourishing in their
organization, and so many peopledon't come from those
environments.
And if they've got that baggagethat they're bringing into this
(13:53):
organization, you can find outpretty quickly if it's high or
low by the way they behave,because everything, all the
emotions, are going on under thesurface.
If you think of an iceberg, theemotions are all underneath
whatever's going on in theirlife.
What you see is the tip of theiceberg, which is the behaviors.
So people get hired for skillsand fired for behaviors.
Nikisha King (14:10):
Wow, that is so true.
That is so true.
Isn't that like weird?
We hire for skills but fire foremotion because they don't know
how to engage well with theirsupport or their team.
And that is true.
When we hire people, it's notlike we're hiring them to work
on their own.
They still have to communicate,they still have to engage with
people, but we don't, we don'thire on that, we don't be like
(14:33):
we're not trying to figure outwhat their skills are.
Emotional, I'm like this is sotrue.
I love that.
Yeah, let me ask you this inregards to let's do an example
If we had someone who was maybein a managerial role and they
had their team members or theirlower employee like not lower,
(14:54):
but employees that they wereoverseeing wasn't getting the
thing that they needed right,and they would have to repeat
several times to this person howto do it or something, and they
then became condescending, ortheir tone became condescending,
and the other members realizedthat how can we step in and help
(15:20):
that person?
What would that process looklike?
To bring them to awareness, tobring them to feedback?
What will we do in thatsituation?
Angie Lion (15:29):
Wonderful there's a few ways to do it.
One of the ways we do useassessments that kind of show
strengths and weaknesses andbehaviors and communication and
emotional intelligence.
We use all of them to help theperson have more self awareness
in the beginning and also beokay with talking about their
strengths and weaknesses.
I see those as indicator lightsand so if I were talking with
(15:50):
that person and we'd beenworking together, we would say,
like I'm noticing some of thestress indicator lights going
off for you, I would check inwith them how are you doing?
What are your challenges?
How can I support you?
Because I'm seeing somebehaviors that are not normal
for you.
You know you're not your bestself, behaviors, not your
strengths.
I'm seeing some of the theoverextensions, because any
(16:13):
strength overuse can become anoverextension.
Right and just like, if you'rea talkative person like myself,
if I get nervous and I continueto just talk and not listen,
well, that usually means I'mnervous or insecure or not
feeling good about myself.
So when I see those indicatorlights, it tells me to check in
with that person and find outwhat they need, what's stressing
(16:35):
them out, what emotions aregoing on under the surface.
We have 400 emotions a day, 26an hour, I want to say 40,000
thoughts a day and a lot ofemotions going on.
So we're complicated beings,right?
So sometimes it's just checkingin with that person and getting
a pulse, like think about thehealthcare, right.
Like checking their temperature, finding out.
(16:58):
One of the things I do is anemotion check-in with teams,
finding out right at thebeginning of the meeting, even
if it was on Zoom, and you coulduse a tool like a moodimeter
from Yale Center for EmotionalIntelligence or a feelings wheel
or something like that, whereeverybody shares what they're
actually feeling right at thatmoment before you start the
meeting, so that you can findout this person's anxious, this
(17:18):
person's frustrated, this personis overwhelmed as a leader.
When I find that out from myteam, I'm going to shift what we
need to talk about versuseverybody's feeling at ease and
chill and like excited.
As a leader, I can take thetemperature of my team and find
out.
Everybody's good, we can pushright now.
We can get this done.
(17:39):
Sometimes, when everybody onthe team is anxious and
resentful, I need to shift asthat leader.
Nikisha King (17:46):
Yes, but that needs awareness for us to shift.
If you're not aware.
You're going to push because wegot to get this thing done.
We don't care about yourfeelings, because your feelings
have nothing to do with thisbusiness.
Right?
That's the other outlook of it.
Let me ask you this what is thequestion to ask to get the
actual feeling of your teammembers?
Because when people get on ameeting, go hi everyone, how are
(18:07):
you guys today?
Oh, we're good, we're good,we're good, but you know that's
not the real feeling.
So what's a better question toask to get that real feeling.
Angie Lion (18:16):
So what's a better question to ask to get that real
feeling?
That's why I put an actualgraph up.
Let's say it's a Zoom meeting.
It can be just one that's inthe room on a PowerPoint.
It's just an emotion.
You can even have a handoutwith a moodimeter.
It shows you like 80, someemotions and it shows you what
color vibe you're in.
So people only have about avocabulary of three emotions
based on Brene Brown's research.
(18:36):
You know the mad, sad, glad,triad, right.
Or they know pissed off, I'mhappy or I'm sad.
Yeah but it's still the samefoundation mad, sad, angry.
So, expanding our vocabularyand having them create.
No, I'm actually feeling alittle overwhelmed.
I'm feeling, and now I know thedifference between overwhelm
and stress.
Overwhelm means I might need anintervention and I can't
(18:57):
continue, Whereas stress meansit's you know.
Is the stress too bad, Like youcan't handle it?
It's more about finding outwhere people actually are and
having the right vocabulary forthings so that they can name
their emotions, they can ask forthe help they need.
It's bringing awareness intoyour teams and to yourself as
the leader, because people can'tleave their emotions at the
(19:19):
door.
If they could, everybody wouldbe doing it.
They're human beings with 400emotions a day.
Nikisha King (19:23):
Right, and they do believe that they do, because
some people would tell you thatI.
What do they build inside ofthem?
You know what?
It is not dividers they.
They put it in this yes, theylove using that word to think
they are compartmentalizingtheir emotion.
So if I have to go to worktoday, I'm gonna put all of this
in a box.
But I'm gonna be honest with you, it never lives in a box.
(19:45):
It's your subconscious behaviorto do things without
recognizing you're doing it.
So when you think you'reputting that situation that
makes you feel really upset in abox and you walk in and someone
says good morning and you goand you think the grunt was a
hello, the grunt's not a hello.
That is the issue you put inthe compartment.
It is not.
You did not move that to the,and that's the thing about it.
(20:07):
We really believe we havecompartments, but on a real
level.
The people who docompartmentalize we call them
multiple personality disorderslevel.
The people who docompartmentalize we call them
multiple personality disordersthat's the ones that we know
compartmentalize when theyliterally change the identity of
self to cope with whateverthey're struggling with.
So that's the extreme of that.
But what I want to know is thatnow we understand the behavior
(20:32):
you gave us a tactic about.
When you're at a meeting, showsome form of a wheel, emotional
wheel, or a sign that someonecan relate to.
But I'm going to be honest withyou, no matter where we are on
a small business level, if Ihave like five or 10 people, I
can maybe do that and get awaywith them being honest, because
the culture I've cultivated.
(20:52):
Now, if I have a hundred peoplebut I'm on a meeting with 20 of
them to tell me their realfeeling of anxious overwhelm
makes them look like they don'tknow what they're doing, how, as
a leader, do we give people thecomfort to be honest with their
feelings?
And how, as a leader, althoughwe need to generate revenue to
pay their payjack, how, as aleader, do we support that right
(21:18):
there, in that moment?
What can we say?
What can we do to give them thespace to feel their feelings
but still take it to the nextlevel, where we work on the
project or the agenda.
Angie Lion (21:28):
Yeah, well, I think it's seeing them as a human
being that has struggles andchallenges.
And when people feel caredabout and they feel like
somebody has their back and theyfeel seen and they feel heard,
they'll go out of their way tomake your company thrive.
That's so true and I think weskip this step and think we got
business to do and we need toget A, b and C and we go
(21:49):
straight into tasks.
Sometimes that five minutecheck-in is all they needed and
then you follow up with them asthe leader later, because you
don't have time in the meetingto address everybody's feelings.
But if I know that so-and-so isoverwhelmed or feeling anxious,
I can do a touch-in with themlater and ask them hey, I
noticed you mentioned and evenif it's just in a waterfall in
(22:11):
the chat they put in twofeelings.
They don't have to, like goaround the room if you got 100
people on the Zoom, you just putit in the chat to two feelings
you're currently feeling.
People generally type those inthe more psychological safety
you bring into your companywhere they can share how they
feel what's going on.
It takes time to build thattrust and it takes time to build
(22:33):
psychological safety becauseyou don't know what backgrounds
they came from or what otherbosses they've had.
So you, as the leader, arecreating the atrium for them to
grow and to share those feelings.
They're not gonna come in anddo it right out of the gate and
tell you their soul, theirdeepest, darkest things, but
I'll tell you.
Sometimes you open the door andthey will walk right through it
(22:53):
and then you find out what'sactually going on in their life
and then, once you know that,you start to understand.
This is why these behaviors areshowing up.
They're actually gettingdivorced, they're living in
their car, their teenagedaughter is pregnant.
They, you know, you name it.
You find things out and thenit's like well, I know a lot of
leaders are like, well, that'snot my business, you know.
(23:15):
Then it's like, well, I know alot of leaders are like, well,
that's not my business, you know.
But if an employee is givingyou more time than they are
their own family of their life,it's your business to care about
them as a human being, andsometimes that might be offering
them an EAP.
Sometimes that might beoffering them you need to take a
couple of days just to get yourlife in order.
You can't function when you areon the bottom of Maslow's
(23:36):
hierarchy.
Again, what's EAP?
Employee Assistance Program,maybe like some counseling
things like that, somethingwhere Coaching?
Nikisha King (23:44):
counseling, other services, Coaching counseling
some support.
Angie Lion (23:46):
Maybe you can't, maybe that you don't have the
capacity, but you can give themanother.
Or maybe you are that personthat is not their counselor, but
you're offering support, you'reasking them what they need,
you're seeing them that theyactually when some.
If you think about Maslow'shierarchy, the bottom of it is,
you know, food and shelter, andthen we start to get into other
(24:08):
needs.
When we lose those main things,we aren't in a place to learn
and we're not in a place to growor to thrive.
And so it's important to knowif your employees have, you know
, went from the top to thebottom like chutes and ladders.
Life happens that way sometimesyou could be on the top the ceo
and the next thing you knowyour life is upside down because
(24:29):
you are going through a divorceand you're going through
trouble things with your kids.
Life happens, we have lifequakes and it's important to
know where people are and tokind of meet them there and see
how you support them throughthat time, because sometimes
when we intervene we can speedup the process, because we can
give them help, the support andeverything that they need so
that they can start to thrive inour organization.
(24:51):
Some people start to live inthat space and that's when we
have to find out if they'repoachable or if they need to
exit the organization.
Like you know, there's.
We need to find out what'sactually going on.
But if you've had a, I think assomebody that we worked with,
they had a.
This executive had a topperformer and all of a sudden
she called us and said I don'tknow what to do with Gloria.
She's not thriving anymore.
(25:12):
And we walked her through oneof our models, you know, as it
relates to human motivation, andit's like did you check her car
, her competence, her autonomyand her relatedness and her in
her job?
Yes, I went through all ofthese things.
How about at home?
Well, no, I don't want to talkto her about her home life.
Okay, just trust us, just askher, just open the door.
So she has the conversation.
(25:33):
She opens the door and Gloriawalks right through the door and
shares yes, I'm gettingdivorced, my teenage daughter's
pregnant and my mother-in-law'smoving in.
Wow, so we learn that?
Yeah, so by learning a littlebit more, we go all right.
How do we support Gloriathrough this?
Maybe she needs two or threedays off to like clear her head.
Maybe she needs an employeeassistance program.
(25:54):
Maybe her coworkers ask her ifshe's open to sharing with her
coworkers, because she reallydoes connect well with her team
and if they knew that she wasstruggling, maybe they can offer
her to go for a walk or to ventor to do something.
But it's really a team, it'sreally caring about your team,
just like you were a sports team, right?
Like, how do we help you bemore, perform better?
(26:16):
We need to support you so thatyou can perform better.
Nikisha King (26:20):
Right, it is a cycle.
Yeah, you have a team and yousupport your team.
They support you in thebusiness that they come to every
day and give eight plus hoursto and as a leader, it's one of
the things I love aboutleadership.
We define leaders or leadershipin different ways.
One is a drill sergeant, one iscompassionate, one is about
(26:44):
helping people rise and level upand they don't hear where they
stand on that and that's reallygood.
But I've always been into howcan I help my team?
And there was a recentsituation where I had a
contractor who was working withme doing really well and the
things that I desired from them.
I don't know if it wasemotional intelligence, but I
wanted them to feel what I wasfeeling for the people we were
(27:07):
serving.
I served women entrepreneurs.
I wanted them and they'refemale, the contractor and I
wanted them to understand whatwe were doing was to help them.
And at this moment she had lostone of her.
She lost a grandparent and myfirst thing was like, if you
lost a grandparent, like taketime.
But in her circumstance, takingtime means no income and she
wasn't willing to jeopardizethat, but her work was
(27:28):
jeopardized and I was just likeokay, so what I did?
I said I had to pause and Istarted to.
I usually am aware to the faultwhere I'm like okay, nikisha,
how can I be better in this?
Right, how can I create easiersystems?
I always go to me first.
I have nothing to do withanyone.
I'm like listen, I understand,but how can I make the system
better?
So your brain power doesn'thave to be used up so much.
(27:50):
But I can support you in thatway and we're planning to
revisit and work together again.
And in that situation, that wassomething where, as much as I
wanted her to take time off togrieve, she didn't feel like she
could because her shelter, herfood was at risk.
And I just feel like these arethe moments where I learn and
(28:11):
I'm like okay, because as Ibuild this empire that I'm
desiring and I'm working towards, it will be massive.
But having an EAP program,having this point where you
could take bereavement for acertain amount of time and, yes,
you still can get paid, so youstill can enjoy your labor and
time you've put with us, how dowe support you?
And I think, as CEOs, we don'treally transform into that.
(28:34):
So what I want to talk to youabout is the next part, the
transitional I or intelligence.
And one, I want you to tell usa little bit of what that means.
And two, what do we, as womenentrepreneurs who are in the
creative field, have totransform into to become our
future self, the woman who wewant to develop into, or the man
(28:56):
or the non whatever non-binarythat who do we need to become in
regards to our transitionalintelligence, to step into that
person that we desire, thatmillionaire, that whatever
you're looking to do doesn'thave to be financial, but
whatever we do, we always bringin the revenue, especially if
we're really good at it.
What do you need to do to stepinto that next stage?
(29:17):
So tell us what TI means and gointo that.
Angie Lion (29:20):
Okay, it can be called TI or TQ, just like
emotional intelligence oremotional quotient.
It's basically your ability tonavigate change with awareness,
adaptability and with skills,and TQ is a measurement that
it's how well you move throughthose life changes and
transitions aren't just one timeevents in our lives.
They're cycles of endings andbeginnings, and there's endings,
(29:44):
there's messy middles andthere's new beginnings.
So first of all, I would wantto identify where you are in
this transition.
First of all, you probably havea lot of transitions going on
in your life that you've nevereven thought about.
Some of us are good at endingsand we don't mind the endings,
and that's okay.
Some of us are good at messymiddles and we don't mind that
(30:07):
uncertainty and that in-betweenphase where things feel unclear.
And some of us are better atnew beginnings, loving having a
fresh identity and a perspectiveor a new chapter.
So I would first start toidentify where you are in this
transition.
So let's just talk about for amoment there's a lot of
different transitions that canbe going on, but let's just take
(30:29):
this to career-based right,because we could be having
physical transitions in our body, such as menopause, such as a
health diagnosis, but thinkabout it from the professional.
We'll stay in that realm.
But where are you?
Are you thinking about leavingyour job and starting a business
(30:52):
that you know there's an endingcoming?
You know it's coming, you'reafraid to take the leap.
You're wondering.
You know you have a lot ofwonder and curiosity and also a
lot of fear around.
We'll talk about threats in aminute.
But there's a lot, of, a lot ofcuriosity and also a calling.
There's a soulful piece thatfor me it's like a life is
(31:14):
calling.
Your soul is calling and youknow you want to do this thing
and it keeps coming up, but youjust are afraid to leave the
comfort of for me it was highereducation, because it's a safe
job, right.
Nikisha King (31:26):
It is yeah, the safe the quotes.
If you can't see the quotes,safe is a yes, that's a good one
Go ahead.
Angie Lion (31:32):
It had, you know, a steady income.
I could get, you know,professional development.
I had really state benefits,all of the things.
So it was a safe job for me.
But I knew that I wanted toserve more.
I knew I wanted to be abusiness owner.
I knew I wanted to help peoplein a capacity where I get to
call their shots as far as whatI can do, because oftentimes
(31:55):
those institutions that we workin keep us held back from some
of the skills and talents thatwe want to offer.
So I knew for me, when I wasleaving higher ed, that I was.
I wanted to, but I had fear ofthe money part, the scarcity
mindset, right Of what, and sounderstanding that I was
struggling to let that ending go.
And you know, but it, it.
(32:15):
It didn't take too long before Iwas ready to.
I was go, and you know, but itdidn't take too long before I
was ready to.
I was in it and I took the leap.
And then I was in the messymiddle of starting a business.
And then you start to learnwhen you go from working for
someone to be an entrepreneur,then you're in the middle of oh
wait, I'm the marketer, I'm theaccountant.
I'm the business owner.
(32:35):
You're everything.
I'm the marketer.
Nikisha King (32:36):
I'm the accountant , I'm the business owner, you're
everything.
Angie Lion (32:37):
Then you're just in the soup of all of it right.
Nikisha King (32:40):
Yes, and the messy middle?
I don't believe needs to bemessy.
I believe we choose messybecause we get in our head about
all the things rather thangoing.
Let me sit down, let meorganize the mess, let me find
help.
Angie Lion (32:56):
Let me sit down.
Let me organize the mess.
Let me find help.
Let me find help.
A guide, a coach, a mentor,somebody that has done this
before, somebody that knows,who's been in the field.
So there's guides for the messymiddle.
That's what I love doing.
I just got goosebumps.
Nikisha King (33:08):
That was such a good one.
Angie Lion (33:09):
I need a guide when I'm in the middle, and even as
somebody who does it for otherpeople, I need somebody,
somebody who does it for otherpeople.
Nikisha King (33:16):
I need somebody.
We all do.
The thing about it now iscoaching became relevant and it
became in.
It became available to peoplewho could afford it.
We don't realize.
We had Earl Nightingale, we hadNapoleon Hill, do you not
understand?
That's what they were.
They were business coaches.
They didn't have the title, butthat is who they were.
And back then women didn't work, men did, and that's who they
(33:37):
went to so they can climb thatcorporate ladder.
That's who they listened to.
And today we just have moreaccess and more people, and now
the market's a little bit open.
So now you could find yourperson.
So you're 100% right Findsomeone to guide you through
your messy middle.
I love that, and as a coach,maybe you, you can't take that
(34:01):
leap.
Angie Lion (34:01):
So you need somebody to help walk along with, to you
know, to offer support, becausecoaches don't make your
decisions for you.
They only question you and helpyou.
They bring out what's alreadyinside.
You already are a gem.
It's chipping away some of thethings that the beliefs and the
thoughts of that you know, maybeholding you back.
So the new beginning is for me.
(34:22):
I love new beginnings, I love afresh new month.
You know, I love the freshidentity.
I love like I get to be who Iwant.
I'm deciding I created.
Now I'm the chief sole officer.
I'm not a CEO, I'm the chiefsole officer of my company
because I get to decide what Iam and who I am.
And and titles to me aren't even.
(34:43):
You know it's something I do,but who am I right?
Who am I as an essence and as abeing?
That's to this in this phase oflife.
I'm really in that phase of whoam I as a being, not as a title
, what does not what my resumesays, but who do I want to be
who?
What do I?
My eulogy to look like?
Like that is where I'm at inlife.
(35:03):
Now I know the first part oflife.
We are hustling and we'retrying to, like you know, follow
the success scripts of life andwhatever other people are
telling us, but really slowingdown and finding out who you are
is super important to listeningto your inner calling and to
not drowning it out and doingwhat everybody else is doing and
(35:24):
figuring out what your soul iscalling you to do and stop
following everybody else'ssuccess script for your life.
Nikisha King (35:31):
I love that.
That's very powerful, that isvery true, I believe, when you
connect to who you truly are asa spiritual being because I
always tell people I'm aspiritual being first and then
I'm having a human experienceand I love my human experience
because it's 50-50.
There is no good, there is nobad, it just is.
And in that journey I get tolearn and I get to develop more
(35:53):
and I allow my spiritual beingto step out.
And that's what you're talkingabout the soul, the soul, the
chief soul officer.
And when we show up that way,we connect, we build a lot of
connection and we serve.
I no longer sell things as abusiness owner.
I don't have to sell anything.
I listen well and I go can Isolve this problem or can I help
(36:14):
solve this problem?
And if the answer is yes, Iwill let you know how and I will
let you choose if you desirethat help or not.
And half of the time whenpeople are in all the messes the
beginning, the middle and theend they think they can't afford
it, because they put money asan objection.
And I go, it's not aboutaffording it, you don't
prioritize it because your valueof self is low, because you
(36:36):
don't think you're worth it.
Oh yeah, yes, but being who I am, I know you're worth it and I
know the gift that you have wasmeant to be to serve the people
you're here to serve.
So I'm going to tell you thehonest truth about what's
happening and then you get tolook at that.
But I'm not here to convinceyou because I do not want to
work with anyone.
I had to convince.
(36:56):
I do not want you to be in myrealm because you won't show up
for yourself.
But I know, if you trustyourself, love yourself and
believe in yourself, I will beyour biggest cheerleader, your
biggest guide, your biggestsupporter, and that is what I do
today.
But I do not sell anything.
I don't require sellinganything.
I don't want to sell anythingbecause I don't want anyone who
don't want to show up forthemselves.
Angie Lion (37:18):
I don't want to chase anything, you don't ever
need that place in my business,like I don't in my relationships
.
I just don't want to chaseanything.
I want to attract what is meantto attract and be with people
who value my skills andexpertise as well, and ever
since I've made that shift andnot chasing or it really does
(37:38):
it's kind of like clingy energy.
Nobody really likes that.
Nikisha King (37:41):
I have a situation with the word clingy and chase
and let me share with why.
Okay, when you say the wordchase, the first visual I get is
running behind someone.
And in what I do, there issomeone who's going to try to
run.
But I don't, I'm not chasing,but I will go.
You need to stop running.
I will.
(38:01):
And the reason I say that isbecause it can still be looking
like it could still look likeI'm chasing them, but I don't
want to give up on you yet.
I want to make sure, as you'rerunning, I'll run beside you and
I'm going to listen to you.
So I'm still running with you,but I'm going to say are you
sure?
And I'm going to show you thethings that's in your way, and
(38:22):
you get to look at them, becauseright now you can't see them.
And the reason I say that isbecause sometimes some people
feel like they're chasing peopleand when they use that word and
they have the visual, they stopin the middle of the
possibility of helping thatperson because they feel like
they're chasing, if that makessense.
Angie Lion (38:39):
I love that visual.
Does that make sense?
I completely see where you'regoing.
You're making sure that theyhave all the opportunities
before they turn it down, kindof.
Nikisha King (38:51):
Yes and I don't need to, and some people think
of it chasing.
So when you say to me, whathappens is some people who use
that as an excuse not to keepgoing is to go.
If someone says, well, I don'thave money, they go.
I'm not going to chase you, butthat objection about money is
not real, so what I need to dois go.
Ok, you're saying you don'thave money.
(39:11):
I understand that.
But let me ask you this If youget off the phone call today,
will your life change?
Will this situation?
You told me where you want togo and where you are today will
it?
Will it change?
And if they say no, then it'sstill my obligation to
understand.
Then how important is this toyou?
Yes?
So when you tell me your moneyobjection, I cannot say I'm not
(39:34):
going to chase you and let yougo because I'm not serving you.
But if I go, help, wait, holdon.
Let me understand this, let mebe there with you, let me help,
let me understand so I can helpyou.
I want to walk beside you.
I don't want your money becausein your mind, that's what you
think I want.
So your first objection is Idon't have money, your money,
because in your mind, that'swhat you think I want.
So your first objection is Idon't have money, but no one's
(39:54):
after you for your money.
I truly want to help you and Iknow I have what it takes to
help you, if you just trust you.
Because sometimes people don'ttrust themselves.
That's part of the triad ofselling.
They don't believe they can doit, they don't believe they can
transform and I'm like no, youcan, I can see it.
All you need help with isseeing it for yourself.
Yeah, so that's what I saybecause sometimes, as
(40:15):
entrepreneurs, we do use thesewords that I don't believe are
ours.
I truly don't.
I believe they were given to usthrough marketing and they
sometimes don't serve us becauseof the thought we have with
that visual.
They create emotions.
I don't want to chase you.
That is not a I'm happy motiondoesn't come from that
terminology, but I just wantedto share that with you and my
(40:36):
listeners, because sometimes Isee people do that.
I'm not chasing no one, butit's not from a place of how can
I help you?
And let me go deeper.
It's a place from I wasrejected and I'm hurt and since
I'm hurt, I'm not going to doyou understand Like not you can
say, but I've seen people dothat.
I'm a create boundaries and I'mjust like the boundary.
(40:58):
What kind of you creating?
Are you shutting people outbecause you've been hurt or you
creating boundaries that willprotect you to be better for the
people you serve?
There's two different types.
Angie Lion (41:07):
Well, I see that as a wall, not a boundary.
And they would use the wordboundary.
But yes, you get it Like that.
It's not permeable.
It is not creating a space forboth parties to be successful.
A healthy boundary creates aspace for both people to be
successful?
Yes, and it gives thempermission to know what's to be
expected, and it is designed tohelp people.
(41:30):
It's not designed to shutpeople out.
Nikisha King (41:34):
And people use that boundary word like a war
word, but they don't know thedifference.
And it's not that they're doingit on purpose.
It's the emotion that's drivingthat word out their mouth.
That's why listening is socrucial, because you hear things
and what they think they'resaying.
You're like wait a minute,something else is happening here
.
Angie Lion (41:54):
Yes.
Nikisha King (41:54):
And that's the joy that I have.
That's the gift that I wasgiven.
That's the gift that I lovewith all my being.
Yeah.
Angie Lion (42:00):
Yeah, can I address that boundary piece?
Because this is something thatI was.
I'm talking about it in my book, too, because I am seeing a
problem with people bounding upso much that they're losing
relationships.
Estrangement is higher thanit's ever been and I think a lot
of it is because things comeout of context in our in fast
places like TikTok and Instagramand they learn a thing or two
(42:23):
about a boundary, and so nowthey're like yep, I'm doing this
, I'm, you're out here, you know, and it's just context matters
in everything.
And it's just context mattersin everything, and it's
sometimes we need to slow downand we need to ask more
questions and we need to bebecome more curious.
One of the tools that I've beenusing in in creating boundaries
because I do think they'rehealthy, but, like I said you,
(42:45):
we want to create boundariesthat create connection, so that
we're setting someone theboundary isn't to create
disconnection, unless it's anabuse.
Abuse is different, right, butwe're just talking about in a
relationship at work or in ourfamilies, where we want that
relationship.
I've been using Brene Brown'smodel, which is living big,
(43:05):
which is you're creatingboundaries, you're being in
integrity and you havegenerosity, so let's just talk
about.
We know what the boundary partis, but the boundary should
create a space where that personknows what to do to be
successful in this relationship.
I will accept this.
I won't accept that.
Right Now, then, integrity beingwhole and actually living in
(43:28):
your values.
You say you value kindness, oryou say value kindness, or you
say you value respect, or yousay you value whatever it is
that we value.
Right, each of us have our owndifferent values, but are you in
integrity with your values andin alignment with those values
that you speak of?
And then so it's aself-check-in, right.
Am I actually being kind?
Am I being loving,compassionate, because these are
values that I have?
(43:49):
So am I?
I have to check myself and mythen.
So it's a self-check-in, right.
Am I actually being kind?
Am I being loving,compassionate, because these are
values that I have?
So am I.
I have to check myself and myboundaries.
Is this boundary that I'msetting loving, compassionate,
kind and clear?
And then genera is it generous?
Am I giving them the benefit ofthe doubt, or am I holding, or
am I punishing, or am I using,let's say, children as a pawn or
(44:14):
whatever Like?
Is this a generous?
Am I being generous to thisperson Because I know I would
want people, if they're creatinga boundary with me, to be
loving, to be kind, to be clear,so I know what to be, to do to
be successful.
And then are they beinggenerous with me, that I too
want to succeed.
I want a healthy relationship.
I'm not trying to make theirlife miserable.
Nikisha King (44:35):
Right right, angie , I appreciate you so much.
You share a wealth of knowledgeFor myself, for my listeners,
for some people.
I'm coaching some people.
I know I cannot wait to sharethis episode with them.
I would like to wrap it up andI would like you to leave us
with maybe three things that wecan do to help us with our
emotional intelligence.
Angie Lion (44:57):
Go ahead, I didn't get to the fear part and I think
that would be one of the beststeps is to understand and
identify some of the fears thatyou have, because I think fear
is one of the most powerfulemotions.
Our brain is wired for it tokeep us alive.
Nikisha King (45:13):
So I and we can always bring that back.
We can always do anotherepisode on that, because a lot
of people have that and we canmake a discussion over that one.
Angie Lion (45:20):
So I'd like people to identify their fears in and
in their transition, like ifthey're coming to an end.
What emotions are they actuallyexperiencing as they're coming
to an end?
What emotions are they actuallyexperiencing as they're coming
to an end, is it?
You know what is?
What are the fears?
Uncertainty, fear of not beinggood enough, things like that.
So they start to uncover theactual fears that they have with
their self.
(45:41):
Then take it a little bitbroader to what are the fears as
it relates to their family andtheir close community, right?
What are the fears or thebeliefs that they have in that
realm?
Write all of those down.
What are those fears?
That they don't want you to besuccessful, that they won't like
your decisions, that they'regoing to think you're dumb from
leaving that safe job, right?
(46:03):
What are those fears?
And then the larger picturewhat are the fears or the
threats as it relates to the,the larger community, the world?
So we have all these fears andso sometimes getting clear about
them and finding out what'sactual fear versus what's a
perceived fear as we perceivesome of them that aren't real,
(46:23):
and that's where the guides cancome in and help us ask
questions, find out more aboutwhat's an actual fear?
Will that really happen?
If it does, what's worst casefear?
Will that really happen?
If it does, what's worst casescenario?
You know, like all of thesekinds of things.
So finding a guide is going tobe the biggest way to see your
blind spots and have somebodyquestion you and give you
different, diverse perspectives,diversity of thought and and
(46:47):
being okay with sharing thoseemotions that you're having,
because you have to name them,to tame them.
Nikisha King (46:52):
So true.
Thank you, angie, and I lovethe last line you just gave.
You have to name them to tamethem.
So good.
Thank you for being here.
Thank you for sharing a wealthof knowledge.
I look forward to having youback and we can speak about the
next topic, fear, which is agood one, because fear is false
evidence appearing real.
It's not really real.
So I'm looking forward to thatconversation.
(47:13):
Listeners, thank you guys somuch for being here.
Thank you for always investingyour time with us, and I hope
not even hope I know the valueyou're taking away from here,
because this is work that wehave to do, the deep work to be
the leaders who we are or we'rebecoming.
So definitely join me for mynext masterclass and USC
(47:34):
information in the show notes,and I will definitely have other
information for you guys.
Have an amazing day and see younext week.
Announcer (47:42):
Thank you for joining us today on Leading Her Way.
We loved having you with us.
Remember each action you take,no matter how small, you with us
.
Remember each action you take,no matter how small, adds up to
big results.
If today's episode fired you up, hit subscribe for more
insights and visit our resourcehub, which is linked to the show
(48:05):
notes.
There you'll find tools tostreamline, organize and grow
your business.
Keep moving forward and we'llbe right here to cheer you on
next week.
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