October 26, 2025 • 44 mins
What happens when your entire world changes overnight?
In this profound and moving episode, Julie Brown shares how she found the strength to rebuild her life and leadership practice after the tragic loss of her husband and business partner, polar explorer Dixie Dansercoer.
Drawing on her new book, Discover Your Pivot: How Strong Leaders Can Adapt to Any Situation, Julie reveals how leaders can find stability in uncertainty — not by resisting change, but by learning how to pivot with purpose.
Together, we explore:
- Why pivoting is better than managing change
- How collaboration and teamwork sustain resilience
- Why strong leaders need a suitcase of options
- How to "innovate" grief and find meaning in adversity
- Why challenge is a privilege
- And why attention may be a leader’s most powerful skill
This conversation is about grief, resilience, and hope — and what it really means to lead when life takes an unexpected turn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to Leading People with me, Jerry Murray.
This is the podcast for leadersand HR decision makers who want
to bring out the best inthemselves and others.
Every other week, I sit downwith leading authors,
researchers, and practitionersfor deep dive conversations
(00:22):
about the strategies, insights,and tools that drive personal
and organizational success.
And in between, I bring you onesimple thing: short episodes
that deliver practical insightsand tips for immediate use.
Whether you're here for usefultools or thought-provoking
ideas, leading people is yourguide to better leadership.
(00:49):
What happens when your entireworld changes overnight?
How do you find the strength torebuild not just your work but
your sense of purpose andleadership?
A few years ago, I reached outto invite a world-renowned polar
explorer to join me on thepodcast to talk about
leadership.
Sadly, that conversation nevertook place.
(01:13):
But the story didn't end there.
It has since evolved inremarkable ways, and today I'm
joined by his partner in bothlife and adventure, Judy Brown,
whose new book, Discover YourPivot: How Strong Leaders Can
Adapt to Any Situation capturesthe lessons she's learned about
resilience, purpose, andself-leadership.
(01:35):
In this profound and movingconversation, Judy explains why
pivoting is better than managingchange, why collaboration is the
key, and why strong leaders needa suitcase of options.
We also explore how she'slearned to what she calls
innovate grief, why she believeschallenge is a privilege and how
(01:57):
the ability to pay attention maybe one of the most powerful
leadership skills of all.
It's a conversation aboutleading through adversity,
finding meaning and loss, andredefining what it means to be
strong.
Curious?
Let's join Julie.
Julie Brown, welcome back toLeading People.
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Thank you, Jerry.
It's great to be back with you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
So, Julie, you've just published a new book,
Discover Your Pivot, How StrongLeaders Can Adapt to Any
Situation.
But before we dive into thebook, and so my listeners can
get to know you better,especially those who haven't
heard you on a previous episodeof Leading People, how did you
get to where you are today?
What pivotal people, places, ormoments shaped this journey?
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
Well, I was born in the United States in a time when
uh things were quite uhuncertain in the in the 60s when
when there was all sorts ofsocial unrest happening.
Uh and I think that that hasshaped a big part of my life as
I've moved forward.
Uh, it makes me quite resilient,I think, and uh very uh slow to
(03:09):
say that, for example, thesetimes are so horrible.
I have a lot of of uhperspective on that, I think.
Uh almost 28 years ago I movedto Belgium.
And in the time between beingborn and that move to Belgium, I
led several professional lives.
I was a school teacher.
Uh, I taught history and Englishto uh 12 and 13-year-old
(03:34):
students in Ohio.
I was a flight attendant for anAmerican airline and a Belgian
airline, and so I traveled theworld in a in a very uh what
could have been considered asuperficial manner, but I made
the most of every trip andenjoyed the learning experience
of that career.
(03:54):
And then for the last almost 28years, I've been working
together with uh my husbandDixie on polar expeditions,
organizing polar expeditions,and translating the skills
necessary for polar expeditions,successful polar expeditions,
(04:14):
uh, to corporate life and toprofessional life for people.
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
Yeah.
And I must say the the Englishaspect uh comes out in the book.
It's beautifully written.
I know you had the naturalflair.
You mentioned the book atschool, you had a natural flair
for writing.
So you you can for all thelisteners out there, this is a
beautiful book to to read.
It flows really nicely, veryprosaic, prosaic, and and so it
(04:42):
worth worth getting a copy.
So um you mentioned Dixie, anduh I think it's three years now
since he passed away, sadly.
Four, four four years.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Four, yeah.
Yeah, I know, I know.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Time I know time goes.
Um yeah.
For our listeners, uh uh Dixie,uh Judy's a neighbour of mine,
so we we knew each other quitewell, and you dedicate the book
to Dixie, Dixie Dansecourt, um,and in memory.
And when you say at the at thebeginning of the book, you
encouraged me to pursue everydream.
Here's one more.
(05:14):
So, for the benefit of mylisteners, perhaps explain who
who Dixie was and how he shapedyour world.
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Well, as uh a human being, he was, in my humble
opinion, a very unique person,in that he truly lived what he
said in accomplishing anythinghe set out to do.
Um he knew success, he knewfailure.
Uh he's one of those uhinspirational figures who
(05:45):
quickly took failure uh andrewove that into a future
success.
He was an incredibly positivehuman being, um, but could also
be uh quite hard on himself andat times also on teammates
around him.
His expectations were high.
Uh he was uh my partner in lifeand in business.
(06:08):
He was the father of our fourkids.
He gave me three stepchildren atour wedding, and we had one
together.
Um and he was somebody who wasuh, I would say an adventurer in
in many aspects, but his nichewas polar exploration.
And so Dixie spent over 30 yearsexploring literally all corners
(06:31):
of the earth, uh particularlynorth and south.
And we we lost him.
We uh we lost him in June uh of2021 during a relatively simple
guiding expedition with aclient, and uh there was an
accident and he passed away inin Greenland.
SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
Yeah, and um my memory is always that Dixie
could light up the room with hissmile.
He had this brilliant presencewhen he would walk in.
So it was uh always a pleasureto be around Dixie.
So let's get into the book now.
So why this book and why now?
SPEAKER_01 (07:08):
Well, I've spent the last at the time of starting to
write, it was three years.
I had spent three yearsnavigating this new pathway, uh,
a pathway that was built fortwo.
Uh if a couple is ambitious andsets out to accomplish things
together, both professionallyand personally, it means that uh
(07:29):
you need all four hands of thosetwo people to keep it going.
And when two of those hands fallaway physically, um I needed to
find a way to continue on thatpath that meant a lot to me, uh,
that was just as much my path ashis.
Uh, I think we were pretty equalpartners in a lot of ways.
And so I needed to learn.
(07:51):
I needed to be humble, but thattype of grief and loss makes a
person very humble very quickly.
And I like to think I always wasa pretty humble person.
So uh I learned how to take backlife into footsteps, literal one
(08:13):
for one each each moment of eachday.
Uh, I gave up what I calllong-term planning for a short
time uh and created what wasvery important to me, something
I could do as Julie Brown.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
Because authenticity is so necessary in this world,
and there was no reason for meto try to be Dixie.
No one could, and who would wantto?
Uh and so that I had under undermy belt, I think, pretty early
on.
Um, and I also had uh four adultchildren looking at me and their
(08:53):
partners, uh, and now twograndsons.
So uh also Dixie's parents,Dixie's sister and her family.
People were looking to me forsome reason to keep it all
together, and that's a wonderfulmotivating factor.
The book was uh a sort ofnatural uh well, I don't know,
(09:13):
natural, but I I love to write,and I hadn't really been able to
write after Dixie died.
It's it was too confrontational,I think.
And so after three years, I wasready.
Um, and from the time I decidedto start writing, which was the
end of August of last year, thedeadline of the manuscript was
(09:36):
January 2nd of this year.
So it came out, once it gotgoing, it came out pretty well.
I think these sorts ofcircumstances allow us to decide
either we're going to getthrough something very, very
difficult with our head down andour blinders on, or we're going
to share as we go.
And collaboration is everythingin this world right now.
(09:58):
It's it's something that to meis the key to the success of our
civilization.
We can compete healthily withone another, help each other
raise our bars, butcollaboration is the key.
And so sharing sometimes thedifficult moments uh allows
other people to see that theycan get through tough times as
well.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Yeah.
And maybe you could say a littlebit about the title, you know,
Discover Your Pivot.
I mean, what was it about theword pivot that drew you to this
word?
And you built the whole bookaround pivots.
So just explain for thelisteners what you mean by pivot
and how you came to that title.
(10:42):
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Please subscribe wherever youget your podcasts and share a
(11:04):
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SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
It's a beautiful word because in today's
terminology we hear the wordschange management, which I have
renamed reality managementbecause that's what it is.
Change for many people draws upa very uh strong fear emotion.
But to me, a pivot is uh is apole.
(11:37):
There's a solid pole that wemaneuver around.
We can go this direction, we cango that direction.
But the solidity of our values,the solidity of our experiences
that have formed us and made uswho we are, that never goes
away.
And so a pivot allows us to makeeffective change with a solid
(12:02):
background behind us.
It it's a beautiful term.
Uh, people say, don't throw outthe baby with the bathwater.
Well, many people expected meafter Dixie passed away, for
example, which is just one ofthe pivots I talk about in the
book.
But after Dixie passed away,many people expected me to sell
this house and move back to theUnited States, which seemed so
(12:25):
strange to me because my my lifewas here.
Our children were here, ourbusiness is here.
Uh it made uh absolutely nosense to just give it all up.
And uh and that word pivot keptcoming back to me.
I I know I I realized at thetime I had to make radical
changes, but I didn't have tothrow everything away.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
Yeah.
And you you took, uh just let merefer to that one chapter in the
book because it kind of jumpsout at you.
It's not the first chapter, itwas one of the early middle
chapters, the ultimate pivot youcall innovating grief.
What do you mean by innovatinggrief?
For anybody out there who'sexperienced grief, what does
Judy Brown mean by innovatinggrief?
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
The beauty of saying that is that I said it from the
beginning of this experience,and even more today, I believe
in it.
I believe that grief in abizarre way is a privilege
because it means we loveddeeply.
And in this particularsituation, I was so annoyed at
(13:35):
how society perceived grief andhow we were treated, especially
a widow, the word widow.
I'd like to eliminate that fromevery dictionary.
Um, I understand that we want toplace terminology on things,
especially things that aredifficult to understand.
Uh, but Dixie was my husband.
(13:56):
You know, we he didn't divorceme.
And uh, so I talk about my latehusband if people really need
that context, but sometimes Istill just say my husband.
Um the the love and the and thededication to one another did
not end the day he died.
In some ways, it probablystrengthened or or or morphed
(14:19):
into something uh, dare I say,eternal.
It's just always going to bethere, that love.
But that doesn't mean that lifehere without him won't go on in
a in another way in the physicalrealm that we all understand.
SPEAKER_02 (14:34):
And so Yeah, you said my husband at the beginning
of this uh conversation,actually.
Um do you sense, do you sense,do you have a sense of his
presence uh in the things youdo?
SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
And everything, in everything.
Um but you knew him.
The energy of Dixie, if if ifanyone was going to crack that
code of coming back or at leastsharing with us that that
beautiful um mystery, uh, it'llbe him.
He'll figure it out.
But until that time, uheverything I still live in the
(15:11):
same house.
He was in uh the the childrenand I still share wonderful
stories about him.
Uh I'm not saying it's easy.
Uh I'm not saying that griefshould be uh pure joy, that not
at all.
But there are ways, there aretips and tricks to make it
lighter at times, recognize itwhen it needs to be recognized,
(15:34):
get it out, do the crying, dothe do the sadness, do the
anger, do all of that.
Um, and then return to thisbeautiful thing called life that
someone like Dixie doesn't haveanymore.
Uh, and so I feel I would saythe word obligation to him, to
my parents, to my brother,people I've lost, um, to live
(15:56):
and live well and and and enjoywhen I can.
SPEAKER_02 (16:00):
Okay, so let's contextualize that now around
the subtitle of the book, HowStrong Leaders Can Adapt to Any
Situation.
Because people might be saying,what's the chapter on grief got
to do with strong leaders?
But one of the things I noticeis this human aspect to being a
leader that you try to reallybring out through the book.
So perhaps tell us about some ofthe other pivots that you've
(16:21):
structured the book around andmaybe explain, give some
examples, how those are someaningful to being a strong
leader and being able to adaptto situations.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Well, the one thing that I had to decide rather
quickly was would I keep ourcompany going, yes or no, with
our polar guiding team thatDixie had assembled and trained
and uh and made into thisamazing, amazing group of
people.
And that decision we as a groupmade together in less than I
(16:54):
think it was two weeks, two,three weeks, that we just said,
okay, we're going forward.
And then the responsibility ofleading without Dixie there to
lead with me was um mysteriousand at the same time familiar.
I knew these guides, I trustedthem implicitly, their
(17:16):
dedication and their loyalty,especially after the situation
of losing Dixie, because theyall lost someone very important
to them when he died.
This made us as a teamincredibly cohesive and I would
dare say efficient.
And I think that's a veryimportant pivot for a leader.
(17:36):
If we're talking in aprofessional context, uh if
you're a good leader, a strongleader and a sustainable leader,
your teams are going to gothrough ups and downs.
And a strong leader is someonewho can allow those down moments
to not hold and drag, but tostir things up and shoot that
(18:02):
team back out on the other sidein some new fashion.
You'll be holding on to thevalues you always had, but the
behavior will change.
The way of actually moving willchange because perhaps you've
lost a team member, perhapsthere's been a restructuring,
(18:22):
perhaps there's uh a directivethat you can't ignore, that you
have to start following.
Change is constant.
And those types of pivots mark astrong leader.
A strong leader is not afraid ofchange.
A strong leader has a sort of uhsuitcase packed ready with
(18:43):
alternative options.
And if we don't know what to do,I think strong leaders say, I
don't know yet.
I'm working on that.
Uh being honest, beingforthright, um, and uh and
keeping that passion as long asyou can.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:01):
Yeah, adaptability has been a theme of several of
leading people episodes.
And I work a lot with some toolsaround this myself in trying,
you know, helping peopleunderstand their range of
adaptability and how theyrespond to situations and
whether or not the response thatthe you know their habitual
response works across manysituations.
(19:23):
So it's a it's a fascinatingarea.
As you say, the the challengewith this concept of change
management is it's oftenpresented as an event when it's
not.
I mean, it you you hear aboutchange programs as though
they're something and companiesthrow loads and loads of money
at them, and yet actually a moreuseful way to frame the notion
of change is that it's just aconstant.
(19:45):
Every day you are we do wecannot predict the future.
We can anticipate, we can try toestimate, but we can't predict
it.
So we're we're always dealingwith change every morning.
We don't know what's going tohappen next.
So, you know, it's uh I I Ithought that some of the
messaging you had in the book isvery, very powerful around this.
And um, I I'm just wanted toexplore a little bit because
(20:06):
people out there might be going,okay, polar exploration, and I
what what the hell, you know.
And I was then had a questionhere about could you give us a
flavor of how organizations areapplying your insights about you
know the pivots?
But at the same time, I alsothought maybe who goes on a
polar or adventure expedition?
(20:28):
Because it's not always to thepolls, because I know you guys
go to Switzerland up into themountains, you do lots of stuff.
So who typically, if anybody'slistening out there going, is
this for me, who typically goeson these these sort of
adventures with with you andyour company?
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Well, first of all, it's very important for you to
know that that expeditions arejust one part of what I do.
Um and the people who go onthose expeditions tend to be
people who are ready to exploresomething quite profound that
takes them completely out of anyrecognizable comfort zone.
(21:04):
Um the average age of peoplethat we take is in their mid to
late 40s.
So it's usually people who havedone the world travels, seen,
seen, traveled, uh, experienced,and now they want to understand
nature.
They want to often, in recenttimes, understand the climate
(21:24):
change that's going on.
We only take these people invery small groups and under very
strict parameters.
Any travel is, of course, uh,I'm not going to greenwash, but
we we truly do work underincredibly strict parameters in
getting them there, getting themout of there, and meandering
around in sensitive areas.
(21:46):
Um but what we the niche thatI've developed, especially in
these last four years, is thatmy strength in our in our
partnership was always the teambuilding, the team work, uh, and
more recently networking.
And so we've developednetworking trips, soft
adventures, uh, and we callthese trips in the footsteps of
(22:08):
Dixie Dansercourt, where webring together entrepreneurs and
business leaders on acollaborative networking
adventure.
And we start with a very easy uhyet incredibly profound trip
through Iceland.
Um we don't stop even inReykjavik.
I have nothing againstReykjavik, but most people can
(22:30):
travel there on their own.
We have a local guide team whotakes us immediately out into
the wilderness.
We have very comfortablerefugios and a couple of nice
hotels in and out.
But the purpose of these tripsis that we're together all day
long and all night long inconditions that inspire and make
(22:53):
us want to collaborate and shareand trust one another and
encourage one another.
And uh business gets done outthere.
I have no problem with that.
Um, it's networking for areason, but I think the the
personal enrichment is whatreally sticks with all of us.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
And what else are you doing apart from obviously
the the big polar stuff plusthese softer exploration tours?
What else is Julie doing?
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Well, I continued what I actually ran for us uh
all along, which is thecorporate interventions.
So I do keynote speeches, um, Ido workshops, uh, I've developed
two uh duo keynotes with uh newpartners here, both on
leadership and on resilience.
Uh I am very, very, very proudto say that I've started
(23:48):
coaching.
Um, that was something I neverreally saw myself doing.
Uh, but having had a uh time asa young woman as a tennis
player, uh, I know the power ofa good coach.
And so I've started doing somecoaching, uh not personal so
much, but uh for leaders, uhbusiness leaders, and uh
(24:11):
writing.
I think uh it's come out thisfirst book, and uh and there's
more to come.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Yeah.
Okay, so i if we get to thefinal chapter, um you entitled
that How to Pivot Training Tips.
So please share some of these.
Some of them are quitefascinating, just please share
them with our listeners today.
So, what are some that stand outfor you and and how did you
(24:41):
arrive at these and and how doyou translate them into
day-to-day activities?
Listening to leading people withme, Jerry Murray.
My guest this week is JudyBrown, author of Discover Your
Pivot (25:01):
How Strong Leaders Can Adapt to Any Situation.
Coming up, Judy shares somesimple yet powerful ways to
train yourself to pivot.
Practical habits that help youstay grounded, focused, and
ready for whatever life throwsyour way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Well, a couple, I mean, they're so simple, some of
them, but uh one of the thingsyou you and I had talked about
uh taking the stairs.
Uh it's it's such a simpleconcept.
It's not mine.
I can't own it.
I don't even know uh where Iprobably absorbed it.
But there's something about in aworld that's moving so fast, if
(25:42):
you're given the opportunity totake a motorized elevator or
escalator to another area, oryou can take a staircase, take
the stairs.
Um do your body a favor.
Bodies today move way toolittle.
Uh, probably myself included, II find myself craving uh
movement or a short walk even.
(26:04):
But taking the stairs is alsobeyond the the physical uh
benefits.
There's a disciplinary mentalclick of, oh yes, I need to make
the time to take the stairs, orI need to be in good enough
shape to take the stairs.
And it's a trigger that has fordecades served me very, very
(26:27):
well.
Even when I was a flightattendant and in airports with
those enormous deep uh uhescalators or uh long train
tunnels, even some of thosetrain tunnels and airports have
a walkway accompanying it.
Um, so it's it's a simple tip,but it was something that that
(26:47):
meant enough to me to share it.
Also, I talk about learninglanguages.
I think uh there's not juststandardized languages per
culture or country, but there'sbusiness lingo as well.
And it's very important for usto be able to communicate with
as little barrier as possibleamong us.
(27:08):
And so uh Belgium is the bestexample.
You know, I moved to thiscountry that didn't just have
one new language, but it hasthree official languages and a
bunch of dialects, and makingthe effort to learn particularly
uh Dutch and French and the uhWest Flemish dialect of my
(27:30):
husband's parents, uh it's it'sserved me well.
It's a lot of effort, and and uhI make a lot of mistakes still,
but it's served me well.
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Um I also I admire your ability.
I think the first time I everheard you speaking Flemish was
in the post office, and I don'tthink we even knew each other at
the time.
Uh you were you were speakingand you're standing in the line
and speaking Flemish.
And I my own experience is thatI can have certain basic
conversations uh in Flemish.
I understand a lot.
(27:59):
As one friend said, you have apassive kinis uh very well.
The the more important aspect ofthis is because we live in this
kind of anglophonic, uh almostmonocultural world, is if you
really want to understand aculture and a people, the
language is how they expressthat culture a lot and how they
(28:20):
express their values and beliefsystems and their norms, etc.
So actually making an effort isnot just about displaying that I
can speak something, it'sactually about understanding,
isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
It's about understanding because to me,
communication begins withlistening and absorbing and
digesting.
And again, I sense that time isis has another meaning right
now.
I I think we may swerve back.
I I not back, but I think we mayevolve into a place where we
(28:57):
allow people the time to takeinformation in, digest, and then
and then respond.
Um but I I think that languagetoday is something so vital.
And our choice of words, um,particularly the perceived
normalization of harsh words andand uh and anger.
(29:23):
Uh people tend to feel that theycan just say whatever they have
on their mind with no filter,and that's not being authentic
all the time.
That's just sometimes beingrude.
It's it's okay for us to use ourlanguage with respect of its
power and and how it will affectother people.
(29:47):
Um, I talk a lot in the bookabout communication because
communication has always been myrole, uh, one of the roles that
I filled uh at Polar Circles.
And when when we'recommunicating to people.
Who are out in a remote area onthe ice, our words are so
carefully chosen because thebattery power on the phone is
limited.
(30:08):
Um, because they themselves maynot be in a place where they're
able to communicate very well.
Um and it it just taught me somuch about clear, effective
communication.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:21):
Yeah, and one other um training tip you've given,
and I just like to touch on thisone, is the physical and mental
preparation.
So talk to tell us a little bitabout how you you process that
and and what advice you givepeople who are listening.
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
I remember the first time someone talked to me about
the importance of sleep.
And and I was a relatively newbiological mother.
The other three kids were older,and I, of course, was in that
phase where I wasn't going to begetting any real sleep for a
while, and it it made a hugeimpact on me.
(31:04):
Take it forward two decadeslater, and I see the impact of
how sleep helps with physicalpreparation for anything we do.
Because I was involved in ratherextreme projects in the in the
polar atmosphere, either on theice, I was only on the ice for
six weeks compared to Dixiealmost four months, but there's
(31:27):
something about preparing forsuch extreme situations that has
been a gift for me in these lastfour years, especially.
The physical preparationrequired just to live sometimes
is is uh is intense.
We we need to keep ourselvesfit, we need to keep ourselves
ready because we don't knowwhat's coming.
(31:50):
We absolutely don't know what'scoming.
And that physical preparation isdirectly, of course, linked to
the mind.
You know, it's it's oneinterconnected, beautiful mess.
And so the mental strain that Isense that people feel today
tells me that they're notthey're not allowing the body
(32:11):
and the mind to rejuvenate on aregular basis.
And on polar expeditions, uhthat's that's holy.
They they have to stop at acertain time to be able to have
a camp set up, a camp that willallow them to nourish, to rest,
and rejuvenate.
Now, sometimes on an expedition,the weather conditions are such
(32:32):
that they keep pushing hard.
When they do that, then it's upto the team behind, which was
usually me and a few otherpeople, to remind them, okay,
you've pushed hard for two,three days, now it's time to
stop and rejuvenate.
Uh, one of the things that Dixieused and that I have used
throughout my life is yoga.
And in particular, for me, it'smeditation.
(32:55):
So I'm a firm believer in in thestretching aspect of yoga, the
the unification of mind andbody.
I tend to get even more out ofmeditation and mindfulness.
And those items feed the mentalpreparation for any large any
large project, or even any smallproject.
(33:18):
You know, we we wake up, we lookaround, we assess our
conditions, we we see what theworld is is throwing at us
today.
We decide whether or not toaccept all of that in the first
moments of our waking time, orwe set up a structure that
allows us to be able to allowlife to filter in and to respond
(33:42):
accordingly.
SPEAKER_02 (33:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, that resonates quite alot.
Uh I mean, I do a lot of workwith people and they are going
into stressful situations.
And we I I like to explore whatis the most useful state you uh
need to be in to achieve whatyou're trying trying to achieve
in that situation, and be ableto become aware of when you're
(34:05):
in those states.
I mean, the ultimate state beingthe flow state, and being aware
of when you're in those and howyou get into those states.
And if you need a certain statefor what you need want to do
next, and you're not there, howdo you how do you get there?
Because uh, you know, we've seenpeople very lots of talent who
(34:26):
can do something repeatedlywell, not do it very well
because something's botheringthem or they didn't get enough
sleep or all these factors thatcome into play.
So it's very, very useful adviceand like yoga, mindfulness,
meditation, it's just being ableto stop really and pay attention
to what's happening in your bodyand your mind.
SPEAKER_01 (34:46):
That's it, attention.
So for me, the number one, thenumber one, I I don't even
doubt, I don't doubt it at all,is mindfulness.
The idea that I'm sitting hereright now, next to a window, and
outside of that window is abeautiful, sunny, early summer
day here in Belgium.
Um, that I'm feeling well today,that that I'm seeing a face I
(35:14):
really like and I feel safe inthis interview with you.
I'm I'm very aware of mysurroundings.
Um we're on a sort of virtualplane here, so the people
listening can't smell mysurroundings, but there's some
basil uh that I have not too faraway.
I can actually smell it.
(35:34):
Um, there are sensual triggersthat keep me alert.
Um, and these are the thingsthat to me allow flow to begin
its beautiful magical potionthat allows for really strong
accomplishments.
But even the top athletes andand the Olympic champions, they
(36:00):
don't achieve every day all daylong.
Um they they practice, theyprepare, they nourish, they
rest, they recover, uh, and theyhave themselves in a state that
allows them, particularlysurrounded by strong teammates
(36:20):
and support, because none of usare in this alone.
Um, but it allows them toachieve things that many of us
say, wow, how how did they dothat?
Uh and so for me it'smindfulness, being aware.
And uh I shared I shared a ananecdote that just shocked me
(36:41):
recently.
Uh on LinkedIn, I read a postwhere a person received a resume
from a job applicant where oneof their skills was listed as
able to concentrate.
What happened?
That that is now a that's amarketable skill, I can
(37:04):
concentrate.
That says so much about thisworld where people are just
constantly being pulled and anduh distracted.
So to achieve really big goals,I believe mindfulness is key.
And it sounds so simple, butperseverance.
(37:25):
That idea that um like in mysituation just uh which I I'm
very happy to share, I'm fouryears into a a situation that is
terrifying.
I'm I'm operating without asafety net on the trapeze of
life, you know.
I'm I'm alone.
I I'm choosing right now to tobe uh without a partner uh
(37:51):
because I'm still so connectedto Dixie, I think.
But that means that it's it'sall it's all here, and and that
could be just paralyzing uh interror, but but I I'm very, very
lucky.
I have so much support aroundme.
I have wonderful children andamazing friends and and family,
(38:12):
and uh and so I think that thatidea of prestation, of
accomplishment, it's not just atwork.
Sometimes it's just everydaylife.
And that's what a leader needsto remind himself or herself of.
The people working with you, youcan say for you, but they're
working with you.
(38:33):
Um, these people are humanbeings, and and quite often
they're going through somethingthat they may not want to share
at work.
And so it means you have to bevery mindful what's going on
around you, who's who's fallinga little bit behind, and why.
Um, and quite often we can catchthem in an early phase and help
them.
Sometimes we can't, sometimes,sometimes we can't, and we have
(38:56):
to accept that too.
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
Okay.
So coming to the end, and beforeeverybody rushes off to update
their CV or resume withconcentration as a skill.
What's well, who knows, eh?
Who knows?
What what's the one big idea orkey takeaway that you'd like my
listeners to leave with today ifyou haven't already expressed
(39:20):
it?
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
It's it's life is so beautiful, and all of the
challenges that we face areprivileges.
Uh it means you're alive, and itmeans you're in the game, and it
means that you're you're thereto do something.
It means that you're needed.
Um sometimes people feel verydispensable, and no one is
(39:45):
dispensable.
We need every single human beingon this planet right now to do
his or her best.
And uh I think that uh I'd loveto leave people with the idea
that change is something that isto be embraced, even though it's
not always comfortable.
And please don't think I'mmaking light of some very heavy
(40:05):
things we've talked about.
Um I've gone through some of themost difficult moments I've ever
had to in the last few years,and uh that doesn't make them
easier, but it makes it uh anawareness that I'm still lucky,
I'm still lucky to be here, andI have something to give.
And I just want to remindeverybody of that.
(40:26):
Your your pivots mean thatyou're out there doing
something, and it's probablysomething we really need.
So uh I'd like to leave peoplewith that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:37):
Good.
And the book itself is full ofwonderful little anecdotes, and
and this wonderful voice ofJulie comes through all through
the book.
So uh go out and get yourself acopy, it's already available,
and you have a chapter at theend of the book called Savoring
It All.
What are you planning to savornext?
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Oh, so much.
Uh, I think I'd like to startwith just uh the coming months.
Uh the coming months are aresummer, so it's it's summer and
then fall.
You know, just I I want to enjoysome of this beautiful weather.
I want to after the intensity ofuh getting that book out, I'm
(41:21):
ready to savor getting back intoa little bit better routine for
my own physical wellness.
I have found myself moving alittle bit less than I normally
do, so just recalibrating thatthat fitness routine uh and
spending time with my loved onesum uh and and writing.
Yeah, savoring, savoring theopportunity to write.
SPEAKER_02 (41:45):
Great.
And finally, how can people getin touch with you?
And is there anything specialyou'd like to offer them?
SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
Well, if uh people would like to reach out to me on
LinkedIn, uh, I'd like to offeruh a signed copy of my book uh
to the first two people whoreach out who heard this
interview.
Uh we also have our our website,which if there'll be show notes,
is yes, there'll be links.
SPEAKER_02 (42:11):
Links in the show notes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
Perfect, perfect.
And I think for particularly forpeople who are looking at this
in a professional context, uh itwould be wonderful to meet you
and your teams and be able tooffer a little spark of
something unexpected, uh a bitof inspiration, perhaps, uh bit
of energy to accomplish thegoals that uh you have in front
(42:36):
of you.
SPEAKER_02 (42:37):
So, as always, Julie, it's been inspirational
chatting with you.
And thanks for sharing yourinsights, tips, and wisdom with
me and my listeners here today.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
With pleasure, Jerry.
Thank you for having me back.
It's an honor.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
Coming up on meeting people.
SPEAKER_00 (42:57):
I think we're gonna start to see um teams of human
AI performance psychologycoaches in businesses actually
helping people to understandtheir own brain and how to get
this intelligence cultureworking so that people can get
their brain working really well,understand how to use that AI
(43:18):
and supercharge engagement,health, happiness, performance.
Uh and I think you can createthe world that everyone hopes
for.
SPEAKER_02 (43:27):
What if the biggest challenge in the AI era isn't
the technology, it's our ownbrains.
In my next episode, I speak withDr.
John Finn, founder of TougherMinds and author of Train Your
Brain for the AI Revolution.
John explains why understandinghow our brains actually work
could be the ultimate key tothriving, not just surviving, in
(43:51):
an AI-driven world.
It's a fascinating and practicalconversation that connects
beautifully with theself-leadership themes we
explored with Judy Brown,expanding the discussion into
how we can train our brains toadapt and perform at their best
in an age of constant change.
You won't want to miss it.
And remember, before our nextfull episode, there's another
(44:15):
one simple thing episode waitingfor you.
A quick and actionable tip tohelp you lead and live better.
Keep an eye out for it whereveryou listen to this podcast.
Until next time.
Welcome to Leading People with me, Jerry Murray.
This is the podcast for leadersand HR decision makers who want
to bring out the best inthemselves and others.
Every other week, I sit downwith leading authors,
researchers, and practitionersfor deep dive conversations
(00:22):
about the strategies, insights,and tools that drive personal
and organizational success.
And in between, I bring you onesimple thing: short episodes
that deliver practical insightsand tips for immediate use.
Whether you're here for usefultools or thought-provoking
ideas, leading people is yourguide to better leadership.
(00:49):
What happens when your entireworld changes overnight?
How do you find the strength torebuild not just your work but
your sense of purpose andleadership?
A few years ago, I reached outto invite a world-renowned polar
explorer to join me on thepodcast to talk about
leadership.
Sadly, that conversation nevertook place.
(01:13):
But the story didn't end there.
It has since evolved inremarkable ways, and today I'm
joined by his partner in bothlife and adventure, Judy Brown,
whose new book, Discover YourPivot: How Strong Leaders Can
Adapt to Any Situation capturesthe lessons she's learned about
resilience, purpose, andself-leadership.
(01:35):
In this profound and movingconversation, Judy explains why
pivoting is better than managingchange, why collaboration is the
key, and why strong leaders needa suitcase of options.
We also explore how she'slearned to what she calls
innovate grief, why she believeschallenge is a privilege and how
(01:57):
the ability to pay attention maybe one of the most powerful
leadership skills of all.
It's a conversation aboutleading through adversity,
finding meaning and loss, andredefining what it means to be
strong.
Curious?
Let's join Julie.
Julie Brown, welcome back toLeading People.
SPEAKER_01 (02:17):
Thank you, Jerry.
It's great to be back with you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
So, Julie, you've just published a new book,
Discover Your Pivot, How StrongLeaders Can Adapt to Any
Situation.
But before we dive into thebook, and so my listeners can
get to know you better,especially those who haven't
heard you on a previous episodeof Leading People, how did you
get to where you are today?
What pivotal people, places, ormoments shaped this journey?
SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
Well, I was born in the United States in a time when
uh things were quite uhuncertain in the in the 60s when
when there was all sorts ofsocial unrest happening.
Uh and I think that that hasshaped a big part of my life as
I've moved forward.
Uh, it makes me quite resilient,I think, and uh very uh slow to
(03:09):
say that, for example, thesetimes are so horrible.
I have a lot of of uhperspective on that, I think.
Uh almost 28 years ago I movedto Belgium.
And in the time between beingborn and that move to Belgium, I
led several professional lives.
I was a school teacher.
Uh, I taught history and Englishto uh 12 and 13-year-old
(03:34):
students in Ohio.
I was a flight attendant for anAmerican airline and a Belgian
airline, and so I traveled theworld in a in a very uh what
could have been considered asuperficial manner, but I made
the most of every trip andenjoyed the learning experience
of that career.
(03:54):
And then for the last almost 28years, I've been working
together with uh my husbandDixie on polar expeditions,
organizing polar expeditions,and translating the skills
necessary for polar expeditions,successful polar expeditions,
(04:14):
uh, to corporate life and toprofessional life for people.
SPEAKER_02 (04:18):
Yeah.
And I must say the the Englishaspect uh comes out in the book.
It's beautifully written.
I know you had the naturalflair.
You mentioned the book atschool, you had a natural flair
for writing.
So you you can for all thelisteners out there, this is a
beautiful book to to read.
It flows really nicely, veryprosaic, prosaic, and and so it
(04:42):
worth worth getting a copy.
So um you mentioned Dixie, anduh I think it's three years now
since he passed away, sadly.
Four, four four years.
SPEAKER_01 (04:52):
Four, yeah.
Yeah, I know, I know.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Time I know time goes.
Um yeah.
For our listeners, uh uh Dixie,uh Judy's a neighbour of mine,
so we we knew each other quitewell, and you dedicate the book
to Dixie, Dixie Dansecourt, um,and in memory.
And when you say at the at thebeginning of the book, you
encouraged me to pursue everydream.
Here's one more.
(05:14):
So, for the benefit of mylisteners, perhaps explain who
who Dixie was and how he shapedyour world.
SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
Well, as uh a human being, he was, in my humble
opinion, a very unique person,in that he truly lived what he
said in accomplishing anythinghe set out to do.
Um he knew success, he knewfailure.
Uh he's one of those uhinspirational figures who
(05:45):
quickly took failure uh andrewove that into a future
success.
He was an incredibly positivehuman being, um, but could also
be uh quite hard on himself andat times also on teammates
around him.
His expectations were high.
Uh he was uh my partner in lifeand in business.
(06:08):
He was the father of our fourkids.
He gave me three stepchildren atour wedding, and we had one
together.
Um and he was somebody who wasuh, I would say an adventurer in
in many aspects, but his nichewas polar exploration.
And so Dixie spent over 30 yearsexploring literally all corners
(06:31):
of the earth, uh particularlynorth and south.
And we we lost him.
We uh we lost him in June uh of2021 during a relatively simple
guiding expedition with aclient, and uh there was an
accident and he passed away inin Greenland.
SPEAKER_02 (06:50):
Yeah, and um my memory is always that Dixie
could light up the room with hissmile.
He had this brilliant presencewhen he would walk in.
So it was uh always a pleasureto be around Dixie.
So let's get into the book now.
So why this book and why now?
SPEAKER_01 (07:08):
Well, I've spent the last at the time of starting to
write, it was three years.
I had spent three yearsnavigating this new pathway, uh,
a pathway that was built fortwo.
Uh if a couple is ambitious andsets out to accomplish things
together, both professionallyand personally, it means that uh
(07:29):
you need all four hands of thosetwo people to keep it going.
And when two of those hands fallaway physically, um I needed to
find a way to continue on thatpath that meant a lot to me, uh,
that was just as much my path ashis.
Uh, I think we were pretty equalpartners in a lot of ways.
And so I needed to learn.
(07:51):
I needed to be humble, but thattype of grief and loss makes a
person very humble very quickly.
And I like to think I always wasa pretty humble person.
So uh I learned how to take backlife into footsteps, literal one
(08:13):
for one each each moment of eachday.
Uh, I gave up what I calllong-term planning for a short
time uh and created what wasvery important to me, something
I could do as Julie Brown.
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
Because authenticity is so necessary in this world,
and there was no reason for meto try to be Dixie.
No one could, and who would wantto?
Uh and so that I had under undermy belt, I think, pretty early
on.
Um, and I also had uh four adultchildren looking at me and their
(08:53):
partners, uh, and now twograndsons.
So uh also Dixie's parents,Dixie's sister and her family.
People were looking to me forsome reason to keep it all
together, and that's a wonderfulmotivating factor.
The book was uh a sort ofnatural uh well, I don't know,
(09:13):
natural, but I I love to write,and I hadn't really been able to
write after Dixie died.
It's it was too confrontational,I think.
And so after three years, I wasready.
Um, and from the time I decidedto start writing, which was the
end of August of last year, thedeadline of the manuscript was
(09:36):
January 2nd of this year.
So it came out, once it gotgoing, it came out pretty well.
I think these sorts ofcircumstances allow us to decide
either we're going to getthrough something very, very
difficult with our head down andour blinders on, or we're going
to share as we go.
And collaboration is everythingin this world right now.
(09:58):
It's it's something that to meis the key to the success of our
civilization.
We can compete healthily withone another, help each other
raise our bars, butcollaboration is the key.
And so sharing sometimes thedifficult moments uh allows
other people to see that theycan get through tough times as
well.
SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Yeah.
And maybe you could say a littlebit about the title, you know,
Discover Your Pivot.
I mean, what was it about theword pivot that drew you to this
word?
And you built the whole bookaround pivots.
So just explain for thelisteners what you mean by pivot
and how you came to that title.
(10:42):
On Leading People, the goal isto bring you cutting-edge
thought leadership from many ofthe leading thinkers and
practitioners in Leadershiptoday.
Each guest shares theirinsights, wisdom, and practical
advice so we can all get betterat bringing out the best in
ourselves and others.
Please subscribe wherever youget your podcasts and share a
(11:04):
link with friends, family, andcolleagues.
And stay informed by joining ourLeading People LinkedIn
community of HR leaders andtalent professionals.
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
It's a beautiful word because in today's
terminology we hear the wordschange management, which I have
renamed reality managementbecause that's what it is.
Change for many people draws upa very uh strong fear emotion.
But to me, a pivot is uh is apole.
(11:37):
There's a solid pole that wemaneuver around.
We can go this direction, we cango that direction.
But the solidity of our values,the solidity of our experiences
that have formed us and made uswho we are, that never goes
away.
And so a pivot allows us to makeeffective change with a solid
(12:02):
background behind us.
It it's a beautiful term.
Uh, people say, don't throw outthe baby with the bathwater.
Well, many people expected meafter Dixie passed away, for
example, which is just one ofthe pivots I talk about in the
book.
But after Dixie passed away,many people expected me to sell
this house and move back to theUnited States, which seemed so
(12:25):
strange to me because my my lifewas here.
Our children were here, ourbusiness is here.
Uh it made uh absolutely nosense to just give it all up.
And uh and that word pivot keptcoming back to me.
I I know I I realized at thetime I had to make radical
changes, but I didn't have tothrow everything away.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
Yeah.
And you you took, uh just let merefer to that one chapter in the
book because it kind of jumpsout at you.
It's not the first chapter, itwas one of the early middle
chapters, the ultimate pivot youcall innovating grief.
What do you mean by innovatinggrief?
For anybody out there who'sexperienced grief, what does
Judy Brown mean by innovatinggrief?
SPEAKER_01 (13:10):
The beauty of saying that is that I said it from the
beginning of this experience,and even more today, I believe
in it.
I believe that grief in abizarre way is a privilege
because it means we loveddeeply.
And in this particularsituation, I was so annoyed at
(13:35):
how society perceived grief andhow we were treated, especially
a widow, the word widow.
I'd like to eliminate that fromevery dictionary.
Um, I understand that we want toplace terminology on things,
especially things that aredifficult to understand.
Uh, but Dixie was my husband.
(13:56):
You know, we he didn't divorceme.
And uh, so I talk about my latehusband if people really need
that context, but sometimes Istill just say my husband.
Um the the love and the and thededication to one another did
not end the day he died.
In some ways, it probablystrengthened or or or morphed
(14:19):
into something uh, dare I say,eternal.
It's just always going to bethere, that love.
But that doesn't mean that lifehere without him won't go on in
a in another way in the physicalrealm that we all understand.
SPEAKER_02 (14:34):
And so Yeah, you said my husband at the beginning
of this uh conversation,actually.
Um do you sense, do you sense,do you have a sense of his
presence uh in the things youdo?
SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
And everything, in everything.
Um but you knew him.
The energy of Dixie, if if ifanyone was going to crack that
code of coming back or at leastsharing with us that that
beautiful um mystery, uh, it'llbe him.
He'll figure it out.
But until that time, uheverything I still live in the
(15:11):
same house.
He was in uh the the childrenand I still share wonderful
stories about him.
Uh I'm not saying it's easy.
Uh I'm not saying that griefshould be uh pure joy, that not
at all.
But there are ways, there aretips and tricks to make it
lighter at times, recognize itwhen it needs to be recognized,
(15:34):
get it out, do the crying, dothe do the sadness, do the
anger, do all of that.
Um, and then return to thisbeautiful thing called life that
someone like Dixie doesn't haveanymore.
Uh, and so I feel I would saythe word obligation to him, to
my parents, to my brother,people I've lost, um, to live
(15:56):
and live well and and and enjoywhen I can.
SPEAKER_02 (16:00):
Okay, so let's contextualize that now around
the subtitle of the book, HowStrong Leaders Can Adapt to Any
Situation.
Because people might be saying,what's the chapter on grief got
to do with strong leaders?
But one of the things I noticeis this human aspect to being a
leader that you try to reallybring out through the book.
So perhaps tell us about some ofthe other pivots that you've
(16:21):
structured the book around andmaybe explain, give some
examples, how those are someaningful to being a strong
leader and being able to adaptto situations.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Well, the one thing that I had to decide rather
quickly was would I keep ourcompany going, yes or no, with
our polar guiding team thatDixie had assembled and trained
and uh and made into thisamazing, amazing group of
people.
And that decision we as a groupmade together in less than I
(16:54):
think it was two weeks, two,three weeks, that we just said,
okay, we're going forward.
And then the responsibility ofleading without Dixie there to
lead with me was um mysteriousand at the same time familiar.
I knew these guides, I trustedthem implicitly, their
(17:16):
dedication and their loyalty,especially after the situation
of losing Dixie, because theyall lost someone very important
to them when he died.
This made us as a teamincredibly cohesive and I would
dare say efficient.
And I think that's a veryimportant pivot for a leader.
(17:36):
If we're talking in aprofessional context, uh if
you're a good leader, a strongleader and a sustainable leader,
your teams are going to gothrough ups and downs.
And a strong leader is someonewho can allow those down moments
to not hold and drag, but tostir things up and shoot that
(18:02):
team back out on the other sidein some new fashion.
You'll be holding on to thevalues you always had, but the
behavior will change.
The way of actually moving willchange because perhaps you've
lost a team member, perhapsthere's been a restructuring,
(18:22):
perhaps there's uh a directivethat you can't ignore, that you
have to start following.
Change is constant.
And those types of pivots mark astrong leader.
A strong leader is not afraid ofchange.
A strong leader has a sort of uhsuitcase packed ready with
(18:43):
alternative options.
And if we don't know what to do,I think strong leaders say, I
don't know yet.
I'm working on that.
Uh being honest, beingforthright, um, and uh and
keeping that passion as long asyou can.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:01):
Yeah, adaptability has been a theme of several of
leading people episodes.
And I work a lot with some toolsaround this myself in trying,
you know, helping peopleunderstand their range of
adaptability and how theyrespond to situations and
whether or not the response thatthe you know their habitual
response works across manysituations.
(19:23):
So it's a it's a fascinatingarea.
As you say, the the challengewith this concept of change
management is it's oftenpresented as an event when it's
not.
I mean, it you you hear aboutchange programs as though
they're something and companiesthrow loads and loads of money
at them, and yet actually a moreuseful way to frame the notion
of change is that it's just aconstant.
(19:45):
Every day you are we do wecannot predict the future.
We can anticipate, we can try toestimate, but we can't predict
it.
So we're we're always dealingwith change every morning.
We don't know what's going tohappen next.
So, you know, it's uh I I Ithought that some of the
messaging you had in the book isvery, very powerful around this.
And um, I I'm just wanted toexplore a little bit because
(20:06):
people out there might be going,okay, polar exploration, and I
what what the hell, you know.
And I was then had a questionhere about could you give us a
flavor of how organizations areapplying your insights about you
know the pivots?
But at the same time, I alsothought maybe who goes on a
polar or adventure expedition?
(20:28):
Because it's not always to thepolls, because I know you guys
go to Switzerland up into themountains, you do lots of stuff.
So who typically, if anybody'slistening out there going, is
this for me, who typically goeson these these sort of
adventures with with you andyour company?
SPEAKER_01 (20:43):
Well, first of all, it's very important for you to
know that that expeditions arejust one part of what I do.
Um and the people who go onthose expeditions tend to be
people who are ready to exploresomething quite profound that
takes them completely out of anyrecognizable comfort zone.
(21:04):
Um the average age of peoplethat we take is in their mid to
late 40s.
So it's usually people who havedone the world travels, seen,
seen, traveled, uh, experienced,and now they want to understand
nature.
They want to often, in recenttimes, understand the climate
(21:24):
change that's going on.
We only take these people invery small groups and under very
strict parameters.
Any travel is, of course, uh,I'm not going to greenwash, but
we we truly do work underincredibly strict parameters in
getting them there, getting themout of there, and meandering
around in sensitive areas.
(21:46):
Um but what we the niche thatI've developed, especially in
these last four years, is thatmy strength in our in our
partnership was always the teambuilding, the team work, uh, and
more recently networking.
And so we've developednetworking trips, soft
adventures, uh, and we callthese trips in the footsteps of
(22:08):
Dixie Dansercourt, where webring together entrepreneurs and
business leaders on acollaborative networking
adventure.
And we start with a very easy uhyet incredibly profound trip
through Iceland.
Um we don't stop even inReykjavik.
I have nothing againstReykjavik, but most people can
(22:30):
travel there on their own.
We have a local guide team whotakes us immediately out into
the wilderness.
We have very comfortablerefugios and a couple of nice
hotels in and out.
But the purpose of these tripsis that we're together all day
long and all night long inconditions that inspire and make
(22:53):
us want to collaborate and shareand trust one another and
encourage one another.
And uh business gets done outthere.
I have no problem with that.
Um, it's networking for areason, but I think the the
personal enrichment is whatreally sticks with all of us.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
And what else are you doing apart from obviously
the the big polar stuff plusthese softer exploration tours?
What else is Julie doing?
SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Well, I continued what I actually ran for us uh
all along, which is thecorporate interventions.
So I do keynote speeches, um, Ido workshops, uh, I've developed
two uh duo keynotes with uh newpartners here, both on
leadership and on resilience.
Uh I am very, very, very proudto say that I've started
(23:48):
coaching.
Um, that was something I neverreally saw myself doing.
Uh, but having had a uh time asa young woman as a tennis
player, uh, I know the power ofa good coach.
And so I've started doing somecoaching, uh not personal so
much, but uh for leaders, uhbusiness leaders, and uh
(24:11):
writing.
I think uh it's come out thisfirst book, and uh and there's
more to come.
SPEAKER_02 (24:19):
Yeah.
Okay, so i if we get to thefinal chapter, um you entitled
that How to Pivot Training Tips.
So please share some of these.
Some of them are quitefascinating, just please share
them with our listeners today.
So, what are some that stand outfor you and and how did you
(24:41):
arrive at these and and how doyou translate them into
day-to-day activities?
Listening to leading people withme, Jerry Murray.
My guest this week is JudyBrown, author of Discover Your
Pivot (25:01):
How Strong Leaders Can Adapt to Any Situation.
Coming up, Judy shares somesimple yet powerful ways to
train yourself to pivot.
Practical habits that help youstay grounded, focused, and
ready for whatever life throwsyour way.
SPEAKER_01 (25:19):
Well, a couple, I mean, they're so simple, some of
them, but uh one of the thingsyou you and I had talked about
uh taking the stairs.
Uh it's it's such a simpleconcept.
It's not mine.
I can't own it.
I don't even know uh where Iprobably absorbed it.
But there's something about in aworld that's moving so fast, if
(25:42):
you're given the opportunity totake a motorized elevator or
escalator to another area, oryou can take a staircase, take
the stairs.
Um do your body a favor.
Bodies today move way toolittle.
Uh, probably myself included, II find myself craving uh
movement or a short walk even.
(26:04):
But taking the stairs is alsobeyond the the physical uh
benefits.
There's a disciplinary mentalclick of, oh yes, I need to make
the time to take the stairs, orI need to be in good enough
shape to take the stairs.
And it's a trigger that has fordecades served me very, very
(26:27):
well.
Even when I was a flightattendant and in airports with
those enormous deep uh uhescalators or uh long train
tunnels, even some of thosetrain tunnels and airports have
a walkway accompanying it.
Um, so it's it's a simple tip,but it was something that that
(26:47):
meant enough to me to share it.
Also, I talk about learninglanguages.
I think uh there's not juststandardized languages per
culture or country, but there'sbusiness lingo as well.
And it's very important for usto be able to communicate with
as little barrier as possibleamong us.
(27:08):
And so uh Belgium is the bestexample.
You know, I moved to thiscountry that didn't just have
one new language, but it hasthree official languages and a
bunch of dialects, and makingthe effort to learn particularly
uh Dutch and French and the uhWest Flemish dialect of my
(27:30):
husband's parents, uh it's it'sserved me well.
It's a lot of effort, and and uhI make a lot of mistakes still,
but it's served me well.
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Um I also I admire your ability.
I think the first time I everheard you speaking Flemish was
in the post office, and I don'tthink we even knew each other at
the time.
Uh you were you were speakingand you're standing in the line
and speaking Flemish.
And I my own experience is thatI can have certain basic
conversations uh in Flemish.
I understand a lot.
(27:59):
As one friend said, you have apassive kinis uh very well.
The the more important aspect ofthis is because we live in this
kind of anglophonic, uh almostmonocultural world, is if you
really want to understand aculture and a people, the
language is how they expressthat culture a lot and how they
(28:20):
express their values and beliefsystems and their norms, etc.
So actually making an effort isnot just about displaying that I
can speak something, it'sactually about understanding,
isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
It's about understanding because to me,
communication begins withlistening and absorbing and
digesting.
And again, I sense that time isis has another meaning right
now.
I I think we may swerve back.
I I not back, but I think we mayevolve into a place where we
(28:57):
allow people the time to takeinformation in, digest, and then
and then respond.
Um but I I think that languagetoday is something so vital.
And our choice of words, um,particularly the perceived
normalization of harsh words andand uh and anger.
(29:23):
Uh people tend to feel that theycan just say whatever they have
on their mind with no filter,and that's not being authentic
all the time.
That's just sometimes beingrude.
It's it's okay for us to use ourlanguage with respect of its
power and and how it will affectother people.
(29:47):
Um, I talk a lot in the bookabout communication because
communication has always been myrole, uh, one of the roles that
I filled uh at Polar Circles.
And when when we'recommunicating to people.
Who are out in a remote area onthe ice, our words are so
carefully chosen because thebattery power on the phone is
limited.
(30:08):
Um, because they themselves maynot be in a place where they're
able to communicate very well.
Um and it it just taught me somuch about clear, effective
communication.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:21):
Yeah, and one other um training tip you've given,
and I just like to touch on thisone, is the physical and mental
preparation.
So talk to tell us a little bitabout how you you process that
and and what advice you givepeople who are listening.
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
I remember the first time someone talked to me about
the importance of sleep.
And and I was a relatively newbiological mother.
The other three kids were older,and I, of course, was in that
phase where I wasn't going to begetting any real sleep for a
while, and it it made a hugeimpact on me.
(31:04):
Take it forward two decadeslater, and I see the impact of
how sleep helps with physicalpreparation for anything we do.
Because I was involved in ratherextreme projects in the in the
polar atmosphere, either on theice, I was only on the ice for
six weeks compared to Dixiealmost four months, but there's
(31:27):
something about preparing forsuch extreme situations that has
been a gift for me in these lastfour years, especially.
The physical preparationrequired just to live sometimes
is is uh is intense.
We we need to keep ourselvesfit, we need to keep ourselves
ready because we don't knowwhat's coming.
(31:50):
We absolutely don't know what'scoming.
And that physical preparation isdirectly, of course, linked to
the mind.
You know, it's it's oneinterconnected, beautiful mess.
And so the mental strain that Isense that people feel today
tells me that they're notthey're not allowing the body
(32:11):
and the mind to rejuvenate on aregular basis.
And on polar expeditions, uhthat's that's holy.
They they have to stop at acertain time to be able to have
a camp set up, a camp that willallow them to nourish, to rest,
and rejuvenate.
Now, sometimes on an expedition,the weather conditions are such
(32:32):
that they keep pushing hard.
When they do that, then it's upto the team behind, which was
usually me and a few otherpeople, to remind them, okay,
you've pushed hard for two,three days, now it's time to
stop and rejuvenate.
Uh, one of the things that Dixieused and that I have used
throughout my life is yoga.
And in particular, for me, it'smeditation.
(32:55):
So I'm a firm believer in in thestretching aspect of yoga, the
the unification of mind andbody.
I tend to get even more out ofmeditation and mindfulness.
And those items feed the mentalpreparation for any large any
large project, or even any smallproject.
(33:18):
You know, we we wake up, we lookaround, we assess our
conditions, we we see what theworld is is throwing at us
today.
We decide whether or not toaccept all of that in the first
moments of our waking time, orwe set up a structure that
allows us to be able to allowlife to filter in and to respond
(33:42):
accordingly.
SPEAKER_02 (33:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, that resonates quite alot.
Uh I mean, I do a lot of workwith people and they are going
into stressful situations.
And we I I like to explore whatis the most useful state you uh
need to be in to achieve whatyou're trying trying to achieve
in that situation, and be ableto become aware of when you're
(34:05):
in those states.
I mean, the ultimate state beingthe flow state, and being aware
of when you're in those and howyou get into those states.
And if you need a certain statefor what you need want to do
next, and you're not there, howdo you how do you get there?
Because uh, you know, we've seenpeople very lots of talent who
(34:26):
can do something repeatedlywell, not do it very well
because something's botheringthem or they didn't get enough
sleep or all these factors thatcome into play.
So it's very, very useful adviceand like yoga, mindfulness,
meditation, it's just being ableto stop really and pay attention
to what's happening in your bodyand your mind.
SPEAKER_01 (34:46):
That's it, attention.
So for me, the number one, thenumber one, I I don't even
doubt, I don't doubt it at all,is mindfulness.
The idea that I'm sitting hereright now, next to a window, and
outside of that window is abeautiful, sunny, early summer
day here in Belgium.
Um, that I'm feeling well today,that that I'm seeing a face I
(35:14):
really like and I feel safe inthis interview with you.
I'm I'm very aware of mysurroundings.
Um we're on a sort of virtualplane here, so the people
listening can't smell mysurroundings, but there's some
basil uh that I have not too faraway.
I can actually smell it.
(35:34):
Um, there are sensual triggersthat keep me alert.
Um, and these are the thingsthat to me allow flow to begin
its beautiful magical potionthat allows for really strong
accomplishments.
But even the top athletes andand the Olympic champions, they
(36:00):
don't achieve every day all daylong.
Um they they practice, theyprepare, they nourish, they
rest, they recover, uh, and theyhave themselves in a state that
allows them, particularlysurrounded by strong teammates
(36:20):
and support, because none of usare in this alone.
Um, but it allows them toachieve things that many of us
say, wow, how how did they dothat?
Uh and so for me it'smindfulness, being aware.
And uh I shared I shared a ananecdote that just shocked me
(36:41):
recently.
Uh on LinkedIn, I read a postwhere a person received a resume
from a job applicant where oneof their skills was listed as
able to concentrate.
What happened?
That that is now a that's amarketable skill, I can
(37:04):
concentrate.
That says so much about thisworld where people are just
constantly being pulled and anduh distracted.
So to achieve really big goals,I believe mindfulness is key.
And it sounds so simple, butperseverance.
(37:25):
That idea that um like in mysituation just uh which I I'm
very happy to share, I'm fouryears into a a situation that is
terrifying.
I'm I'm operating without asafety net on the trapeze of
life, you know.
I'm I'm alone.
I I'm choosing right now to tobe uh without a partner uh
(37:51):
because I'm still so connectedto Dixie, I think.
But that means that it's it'sall it's all here, and and that
could be just paralyzing uh interror, but but I I'm very, very
lucky.
I have so much support aroundme.
I have wonderful children andamazing friends and and family,
(38:12):
and uh and so I think that thatidea of prestation, of
accomplishment, it's not just atwork.
Sometimes it's just everydaylife.
And that's what a leader needsto remind himself or herself of.
The people working with you, youcan say for you, but they're
working with you.
(38:33):
Um, these people are humanbeings, and and quite often
they're going through somethingthat they may not want to share
at work.
And so it means you have to bevery mindful what's going on
around you, who's who's fallinga little bit behind, and why.
Um, and quite often we can catchthem in an early phase and help
them.
Sometimes we can't, sometimes,sometimes we can't, and we have
(38:56):
to accept that too.
SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
Okay.
So coming to the end, and beforeeverybody rushes off to update
their CV or resume withconcentration as a skill.
What's well, who knows, eh?
Who knows?
What what's the one big idea orkey takeaway that you'd like my
listeners to leave with today ifyou haven't already expressed
(39:20):
it?
SPEAKER_01 (39:24):
It's it's life is so beautiful, and all of the
challenges that we face areprivileges.
Uh it means you're alive, and itmeans you're in the game, and it
means that you're you're thereto do something.
It means that you're needed.
Um sometimes people feel verydispensable, and no one is
(39:45):
dispensable.
We need every single human beingon this planet right now to do
his or her best.
And uh I think that uh I'd loveto leave people with the idea
that change is something that isto be embraced, even though it's
not always comfortable.
And please don't think I'mmaking light of some very heavy
(40:05):
things we've talked about.
Um I've gone through some of themost difficult moments I've ever
had to in the last few years,and uh that doesn't make them
easier, but it makes it uh anawareness that I'm still lucky,
I'm still lucky to be here, andI have something to give.
And I just want to remindeverybody of that.
(40:26):
Your your pivots mean thatyou're out there doing
something, and it's probablysomething we really need.
So uh I'd like to leave peoplewith that.
SPEAKER_02 (40:37):
Good.
And the book itself is full ofwonderful little anecdotes, and
and this wonderful voice ofJulie comes through all through
the book.
So uh go out and get yourself acopy, it's already available,
and you have a chapter at theend of the book called Savoring
It All.
What are you planning to savornext?
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
Oh, so much.
Uh, I think I'd like to startwith just uh the coming months.
Uh the coming months are aresummer, so it's it's summer and
then fall.
You know, just I I want to enjoysome of this beautiful weather.
I want to after the intensity ofuh getting that book out, I'm
(41:21):
ready to savor getting back intoa little bit better routine for
my own physical wellness.
I have found myself moving alittle bit less than I normally
do, so just recalibrating thatthat fitness routine uh and
spending time with my loved onesum uh and and writing.
Yeah, savoring, savoring theopportunity to write.
SPEAKER_02 (41:45):
Great.
And finally, how can people getin touch with you?
And is there anything specialyou'd like to offer them?
SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
Well, if uh people would like to reach out to me on
LinkedIn, uh, I'd like to offeruh a signed copy of my book uh
to the first two people whoreach out who heard this
interview.
Uh we also have our our website,which if there'll be show notes,
is yes, there'll be links.
SPEAKER_02 (42:11):
Links in the show notes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
Perfect, perfect.
And I think for particularly forpeople who are looking at this
in a professional context, uh itwould be wonderful to meet you
and your teams and be able tooffer a little spark of
something unexpected, uh a bitof inspiration, perhaps, uh bit
of energy to accomplish thegoals that uh you have in front
(42:36):
of you.
SPEAKER_02 (42:37):
So, as always, Julie, it's been inspirational
chatting with you.
And thanks for sharing yourinsights, tips, and wisdom with
me and my listeners here today.
SPEAKER_01 (42:48):
With pleasure, Jerry.
Thank you for having me back.
It's an honor.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
Coming up on meeting people.
SPEAKER_00 (42:57):
I think we're gonna start to see um teams of human
AI performance psychologycoaches in businesses actually
helping people to understandtheir own brain and how to get
this intelligence cultureworking so that people can get
their brain working really well,understand how to use that AI
(43:18):
and supercharge engagement,health, happiness, performance.
Uh and I think you can createthe world that everyone hopes
for.
SPEAKER_02 (43:27):
What if the biggest challenge in the AI era isn't
the technology, it's our ownbrains.
In my next episode, I speak withDr.
John Finn, founder of TougherMinds and author of Train Your
Brain for the AI Revolution.
John explains why understandinghow our brains actually work
could be the ultimate key tothriving, not just surviving, in
(43:51):
an AI-driven world.
It's a fascinating and practicalconversation that connects
beautifully with theself-leadership themes we
explored with Judy Brown,expanding the discussion into
how we can train our brains toadapt and perform at their best
in an age of constant change.
You won't want to miss it.
And remember, before our nextfull episode, there's another
(44:15):
one simple thing episode waitingfor you.
A quick and actionable tip tohelp you lead and live better.
Keep an eye out for it whereveryou listen to this podcast.
Until next time.
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