Is Your Presence Helping or Hurting You?

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What does your body say about you when you walk into a room?

And how much of your leadership impact depends on something you can’t see — but everyone else can feel?

In this episode, Kate Walker Miles of RADA Business — a trusted advisor to senior executives and leadership teams — reveals how posture, breath, and voice shape credibility, confidence, and influence.

Drawing on her background in experimental psychology, acting, and behavioural coaching, Kate explains how to use your body as an ally in communication, especially when the stakes are high.

And in a unique five-minute guided exercise, she helps you experience what authentic presence feels like in real time — offering practical tools to:

• Ground yourself and manage nerves before high-stakes moments
• Use breath and alignment to project calm authority
• Speak with clarity and conviction 
• Reconnect with your physical presence to lead with impact

If you’ve ever wondered why some leaders hold the room while others disappear into it, this episode will help you understand — and change — what’s really going on.

A practical, engaging conversation that proves leadership isn’t just what you say — it’s how you show up.

Curious?

🎧 Listen now

🎥 Watch Kate’s humorous, yet provocative, talk The Secrets of Food Marketing — viewed over 9.2 million times on YouTube. 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Welcome to Leading People with me, Jerry Mermaid.
This is the podcast for leadersand HMR decision makers who want
to bring them the best inthemselves and others.
Every other week, I sit downwith leading authors,
researchers, and practitionersfor deep dive conversations

(00:22):
about the strategies, insights,and tools that drive personal
and organizational success.
And in between, I bring you onesimple thing: short episodes
that deliver practical insightsand tips for immediate use.
Whether you're here for usefultools or thought-provoking
ideas, leading people is yourguide to better leadership.

(00:49):
What happens when your bodytells a different story than
your words?
How can your posture, breath,voice, and gestures build or
break your presence as a leader?
And what can we all learn fromthe stage that helps us show up
more powerfully in meetings,presentations, or even difficult

(01:09):
conversations?
In this episode, we're joined byKate Walker Miles, an
experienced actor, seniortrainer, and client director at
Rada Business, the corporate armof the Royal Academy of Dramatic
Art.
Kate works with senior leaders,high potential managers, and
teams to help them communicatewith greater impact by tapping

(01:32):
into the full expressive rangeof their bodies and voices.
She shares practical insightsinto how your body language and
vocal tone affect how othersperceive your authority.
Why grounding and breathing areessential tools for confidence
and clarity.
What actors know about presencethat every leader should master.

(01:56):
And how to recover when nervesor tension hijack your
performance.
To give you an experience ofthese insights, Kate will take
you through an interactiveexercise.
So if you're driving, ridingyour bicycle, or operating
machinery, whilst listening tothis episode, you might want to

(02:16):
pull over or stop.
This is a conversation packedwith powerful reminders that
your body is not a passenger inyour leadership, it's a
co-pilot.
Kate Walker Miles, welcome toLeading People.

SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
Thank you, Jerry.
I've got to say, I'm having afangirl moment here because I am
a massive podcast fan and I havebeen massively enjoying yours.
So the pleasure is entirelymine.

SPEAKER_02 (02:43):
Okay, the check is in the post, okay?
As they say.
Anyway, um, Kate, uh, so it'sgreat to have you here.
Uh speaking of podcasts, uh, Ifirst heard you on the Bus Class
podcast with Andrew Palmer, whohas has been a previous guest on

(03:04):
this podcast.
And I just thought, I mean,Andrew was gracious enough to
kind of almost just make youknow, he set himself up a bit to
go through this process.
And he's so self-de-deprecatingat times, this witty humor.
And and at the same time, itoccurred to me that uh how he
was interacting with the thetools and techniques you were

(03:27):
explaining to him and puttinghim through his drills, that a
lot of people perhaps couldidentify with that, and and
therefore I thought this couldbe a great topic, and it's a
topic I I you know I've exploredmyself.
So let's start with you trainedas an actor, and now you're
working a lot of the time withbusinesses to unlock the
potential of individuals, teams,and organizations.

(03:49):
But what was the journey that umbrought you from stage and
screen to boardrooms andleadership coaching?

SPEAKER_00 (03:58):
I've always been fascinated by people.
Right?
So when I was a kid, I was sotorn as a child.
Was I going to go down theacademic route and become a
psychologist, or was I gonnabecome an actor?
Because I loved trying to figureout what made people tick and
then inhabiting them, beingthem, plus being in the
spotlight, I have to say, Ialways found quite attractive.
And around the age of 18, Ireally didn't know which

(04:19):
direction I was going to go in.
And where I was from, I didn'tknow any actors.
I didn't know anybody in thatkind of profession at all.
So I ended up going down thesafe, the academic route.
Uh found myself, luckily for me,but but but unluckily for me,
doing experimental psychology atOxford.
And what I actually was doingwas training to be a research
psychologist.
And that sort of dimmed my lighta little bit because really that

(04:41):
was about analysing data, uh,not as much about understanding
people and what makes peopletick.
Carried on on that route, tryingto become a clinical
psychologist, worked withhomeless people and people with
challenging behavior andlearning difficulties.
But really, the light had goneout for that world.

(05:03):
And at this point, I was my headwas turned by telly, and I ended
up going and becoming a producerin a company called Planet 24,
which was a very company staffedby quite young people, making
shows like The Big Breakfast,The Word, if you remember that
sort of those sorts of shows.
And I was at a very young ageleading big teams, producing
very creative and innovativecontent with quite small

(05:25):
budgets.
So you can imagine no trainingin leadership, big pressure, a
lot of fear, but a lot ofplayfulness.
So I learn a lot there aboutbehavior, my own and others,
what to do and perhaps asstrongly what not to do.
They sent me to LA, lovely.
Um, did lots of red carpetstuff, lots of, you know, the

(05:46):
big award shows, lots of moviejunkets, fascinating behaviours
that I saw there.
But on the side, I did actingclasses, didn't tell anybody.
It was always been runningthrough me throughout that I
wanted to become an actor.
And I went off to Rajah at theage of 30, taking a massive,
like a huge gamble.
People thought I was absolutely,completely and utterly conquered

(06:08):
to do such a thing.
But it was the best thing I everdid because I learned so much
there about behaviour.
Acting is, it's entirely abouttaking a microscope to human
behaviour and taking amicroscope to your own behaviour
and creating massive awarenessabout the impact you're having
on people.
And I'll come back to that as wetalk through leadership, Jerry,

(06:31):
because it's so much that I didthere that's so important to
what I do now.
But my specialism after Uradaended up being improv comedy.
Whole long story, didn't want todo it, terribly, utterly
terrified the entire time.
But for some reason, theindustry liked me in that place.
So that's what I became, really,a specialist in improv comedy.

(06:51):
And that's the most importantthing I've ever done in terms of
what I do now with leaders.
Because for me, leadership isabout being in the spotlight
without a script and feelingyour way through it, listening
like an improviser.
That's the key to being a goodimproviser, being in the moment
and listening.
And for me, that's one of themajor keys to leadership.

(07:13):
So now I'm at Radar Business,um, where I am bringing all of
that crazy, checkered historytogether.
And I it's the only place in theworld I can think of where my
past makes complete and uttersense and is really valuable to
other people.
So it's it's I've just foundthis beautiful sweet spot.

SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
And just for our listeners who may not know who
Rada is, it's not a person,right?
So it's a it's an organization,and there are we may need to
make a distinction between Rada,the academic part, and Rada
business.
Maybe you could do a quick pressof who Rada is and the two parts
and what they how they'redifferent from each other.

SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
Absolutely.
Well, so Rada is the RoyalAcademy of Dramatic Art, and I'm
actually sitting in one of theirbuildings now in their sound
studio.
Uh it was established 120 yearsago to train professionals for
the acting profession.
So it trains um actors and allsorts of other theatre
practitioners, directors,lighting designers, costume,
etc.

(08:15):
Um, it's one of our heritageinstitutions in this country,
but it's also what I massivelyrespect is it's a seat of
innovation.
So Rada is always looking atwhat does the industry need and
how can RADA keep servicing it,keep moving forward, keep
providing for actors in thiscountry and providing actors for
this country and elsewhere.

(08:36):
Rada Business was, I keepgetting told off for this, but I
say it sprung from the loins ofRADA about 25 years ago.
So it came from again from thefrom industry making requests of
Rada.
Can you give us a bit of whatyou train your actors to do for
our workforce?
We need a bit of that skill.
So Rada Business was created.

(08:58):
And it it what its missionreally at the time was to
provide work for actors andincome for radar.
But it's massively evolved overthose 25 years.
And now we really see ourselvesas specialists in human
performance and leadership.
And we do it by using thefoundation techniques from RADA

(09:19):
and the evolved techniques fromRADA, but also marrying that
with a really deep understandingof theory.
So a deeper understanding ofwhat people like like you are
teaching, Jerry, what LDprofessionals, organizational
development people are teaching,uh, management consultants, what
is it?
What are people learning?
And how do we use the skills ofthose actors or the skills that

(09:41):
we use with our actors to makeit absolutely real, embodied,
and lived in those people out indifferent industries, completely
sector agnostic.
Because for me, acting is being,right?
That's the first thing that welearn when we become a
professional actor or evenamateur actors.

(10:03):
It's not showing, it's notpretending.
You've got to be that character,you've got to embody that
character so that you're utterlycredible to the audience and
utterly credible to you.
So you believe what you'resaying.
Well, that's the same for me,particularly in leadership.
We've really got to be theleader, not pretend to be the

(10:24):
leader, not not ape otherleaders.
We've got to be it.
So, how do we use this vessel ofours and this mind of ours to
feel credible in ourselves andcredible for other people?

SPEAKER_02 (10:37):
Okay.
That's what Rider Business does.
So we're going to explore thisvessel in a minute, I think.
Yeah, lovely.
As we go through, and um it it'sit's a lot of great things you
touched on there, and um theperformance and leadership
aspect.
And my own personal experienceof training in presenting, for
example, in public speaking, waswe spent, I would say, 85% of it

(11:02):
on platform skills.
And we didn't do that much oncontent.
We had small chunks, we weren'teven allowed to use content for
the first part because we had todo things like project energy,
we had to stand in ways that youknow meant that people paid
attention, etc.
And um that type of training hashelped me dramatically

(11:26):
understand that dynamic as asI've gone out into the world.
And those those platform skillsthat we just called them
platform skills, but those thoseare the things that make the
difference.
And even if you go to all thatmisquoted research by Moravian
about okay, that was in moreconflict social situations.
At the same time, the contentpart, the words, it was 7%,

(11:50):
right?
So so this that whole metacommunication stuff is so
important, and that'smanifesting itself in behavior
or lack of behavior, whicheverway we want to look at it.
And and that probably gets meinto the next kind of key
question to get things moving iswhy is behavioral awareness,
like how we use things likevoice, body, breath, so

(12:12):
important for leaders, andparticularly those who want to
have more impact and influence,and what's at stake if we don't
or leaders don't develop thiskind of awareness.
On Leading People, the goal isto bring you cutting-edge
thought leadership from many ofthe leading thinkers and

(12:33):
practitioners in leadershiptoday.
Each guest shares theirinsights, wisdom, and practical
advice so we can all get betterat bringing out the best in
ourselves and others.
Please subscribe wherever youget your podcasts and share a
link with friends, family, andcolleagues.
And stay informed by joining ourLeading People LinkedIn

(12:55):
community of HR leaders andtalent professionals.

SPEAKER_00 (13:01):
Yes.
Gosh, you've you've touched onso much here.
I mean, really, I thinkeverything is at stake.
Your own resilience, but alsothe performance of everybody
around you.
I'm gonna go right back to corefundamentals and think about how
people make decisions, whetherto follow you, whether to do

(13:21):
what you're trying to influencethem to do.
And there's, as you'll know,Joey, there's masses and masses
of research about how peoplemake those decisions.
And the huge proportion of it isemotionally.
People make decisionsemotionally.
People buy from people, all ofthat good work.
Advertisers have known thisforever, haven't they?
So if I want to help people makethose decisions, if I overload

(13:43):
them with just pure fact,they're not going to be able to
make the decision in the waythat they might, if I help them
to feel what I need them tofeel.
And they're gonna feel thingsbased on my behavior.
Similarly, the other part isthat we're pack animals.
So if my my behavior is bleedingthrough to people, I have an

(14:04):
agenda here, I I need my thing,it's coming from a place of fear
and grip, I'm gonna be creatingthat in other people.
So they're going to be readingthemselves and they're gonna be
feeling fear and tension andgrip.
So they're not going to make thedecisions I want them to make.
My behavior is everything whenI'm influencing.
If I'm in a state of ease, thenI can think really effectively.

(14:29):
I can create thoughts that areclear and concise, and I can
give voice to them in a way thatmoves people.
They believe what I'm saying,and they're affected emotionally
by what I'm saying.
So they can move quickly towhere I want them to go.
I don't then need to overloadthem with more and more and more
reasons, more and more facts topush them along that line.

(14:51):
I'm gonna pull them with theemotion.
And that comes from my behavior.

SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
Once again, some wonderful um uh moments there in
what you just said.
Um, I'd like to come back to thestep management bit a bit later
on because it's not just withinus, it's it's also out with us,
as Scottish like to say out withus, you know.
Uh so it's something that comesout.
Uh just before we get into likereally getting into the the

(15:19):
specifics of how we can how ourbehavior comes across, how we
can perhaps explore that andimprove it.
Um, in in the work you you'vebeen doing, what what are some
of the big aha moments thatpeople have when they first
become aware of their habitualbehaviors?

SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
It's it's so different for different people.
So there's gonna be a key tounlock each individual, but
there are loads ofcommonalities.
So there are some common themesthat we see all the time.
Um one that the main one for meis that, and I'm gonna nick from
Amy Cuddy and probablyparaphrase her a little bit, so

(16:01):
you'll forgive me, won't you,Jerry?
But that the body affects themind.
And the mind affects behaviour,behavior affects outcome.
So if we're gonna think aboutoutcomes, we need to start with
the body.
People, it's amazing how muchpeople sort of nod, uh-huh,
uh-huh.
Yep, yep, get that, get that, onday one of a program, for
instance.
And by day two, you'll suddenlyhear them say things like, oh,

(16:23):
so what I do with my body isreally important.
And you think, yes, that'sthat's the whole of yesterday
that we were doing.
So, yeah, getting in this senseof um if I can, as you've talked
about, manage my state, then Ican think clearly and I can
affect people clearly.
That's one of the huge parts,getting into a state of release

(16:44):
for loads and loads of people,if they can simply get the
concept of how I use space andhow I use time.
So physical space and givingspace to others, physical space
in my body, as we've just talkedabout.
But the other one is the pause.
You know, I like thisexpression, I think comes from
um Peter Hall, the theatredirector.

(17:05):
Uh, powerful people leave spacearound their thoughts.
And what he was talking aboutthere is if you're playing the
king or queen of England, you'regonna enter the room and you're
gonna take your time before youspeak.
And you're gonna leave loads oftime after you speak for all
your courtiers to get the hugevalue and weight of your words.
Well, all of us can nick a bitof that.
If we want people to processwhat we're saying and have that

(17:29):
opportunity to have an emotionalresponse to it, we need to leave
them some time.
We also need to leave ourselvessome time to plan what we're
gonna say next.
And it gives such weight to whatwe say and such an opportunity
for connection with otherpeople.
So I think for me, the two ahamoments I'm gonna I'm gonna nick
two, if you don't mind, Jerry,is space and time.

SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
And for those who listen to that, you might want
to rewind because there was agreat example of how to do that
in that delivery, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
In pausing and um it took me a long time, I've got to
be honest.
Having worked in tele under thatpressure that I was talking
about, when I arrived at Rada, Inoticed I was very different.
I was 30, and then a lot ofpeople were much, much younger,
but I noticed I was verydifferent to the rest of people.
And I noticed that a lot ofpeople were looking at me like

(18:23):
they didn't quite, couldn'tquite work out what I was.
So I sort of got this look.
I'm sort of pulling a face andcocking my head here.
Like, what are you?
And I realized now, Jerry, it'sbecause I spoke like this.
Oh, hello everyone.
My name is Kate, and I and I'm Iused to work in television and I
made these big, big TV shows,and it was really like God, it
was so intense, and it was so Ispoke incredibly quickly with no

(18:43):
space around my thoughts at all.
And what happened for me as thespeaker was that I just saw
confused faces, disengaged facesaround me.
And I just simply learned atRyder very quickly slow down,
leave space.
Suddenly I felt really powerful.
It was utterly transformational.

(19:05):
One of the biggest things for mewith people that I'm coaching,
particularly when I'm workingone-to-one, is as soon as
possible get them to appreciatethose two things space and time.
And they just have laid afoundation now that everything
else can sit on top of.
Every other behavior sits on topof those.
And the the way that you feelabout yourself, your resilience

(19:27):
completely transforms.
I really encourage anybodylistening to practice it today.
Just practice.
Imagine that you're almostplaying each each utterance back
in your mind before you say thenext one.
That amount of space.
That really allows people to getthe value of what you're saying
and to be influenced by you.

SPEAKER_02 (19:51):
Okay, everybody, you've had a chance to process
that.
Great.
Um, so let's now segue and let'sjust keep with this notion of
state because one of the thingsthat comes up in a lot of stuff
I'm doing, even if it's notexplicitly part of it, is um
what is the most useful stateyou need to go into to get the

(20:14):
results you want.
And that then implies that youcan choose your state, right?
And you can only choose thestate when you know what that
state is, right?
So we have to know what it is,we have to know when we're in a
resourceful state and when we'rein uh uh less resourceful state,
and we have to be able to getback into resourceful state uh

(20:36):
if and uh or the appropriatestate for what we're trying to
do.
Like, I mean, you don't want tobe in a very placid state if
you're trying to get people outof a burning building, right?
And maybe that state doesn'twork very well if your children
need time to do something andyou're getting too impatient
with them.
So perhaps we can start withthis idea of let's let's just

(20:58):
look at um, let's just take theconcept of mindfulness and do
the body scan and kind of workour way down because when you
were on Andrew's podcast, youstarted talking about all sorts
of really interesting things,which we're going to do now.
Um, and just little practicalthings, let's start with maybe
the head and then work our waydown through the body.

(21:19):
And just as for my listeners,maybe it's a chance to check in
now as Kate walks us down onsome of the things that you can
experience and do to start tounderstand better the state
you're in and the state you wantto be in.
Would that be uh okay?

SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
That would be beautiful.
It in fact is exactly how wework, with one little tweak, if
I may.

SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
You're listening to Leading People with me, Jerry
Murray.
My guest this week is KateWalker Miles, senior trainer at
Rada Business, where she helpsleaders and teams develop
authentic presence and vocalimpact.
Coming up, Kate explains whyyour feet might be the most

(22:06):
important part of your body whenit comes to executive presence
and how to use your breath,voice, and gestures to land your
message with impact.
If you're driving, riding yourbicycle, or operating machinery
whilst listening to thisepisode, you might want to pull
over or stop now.

SPEAKER_00 (22:27):
We start with the feet.
So we start at the ground andwork up.
Yeah, because being groundeddoes extraordinary things, as
you'll know, Jerry, to yournervous system.
And we're looking at now themarrying of our physicality, our
external physicality in ournervous system.
So we start by thinking asperformers, we need to be in the

(22:49):
moment.
We need to be present in thehere and now.
And if this body is tight andheld and gripped, my brain is in
fear mode.
I'm in my my sympathetic nervoussystem.
So I'm in fight, flight, freezeor the potential to flip there
quite easily.
As you talked about, sometimesthat's useful.
If there's a fire in thebuilding and I want everybody
out, I want that massive burstof power and adrenaline to go,

(23:12):
right, everybody, let's go.
Control, let's go.
But if I want to be buildingrelationships and reading people
and influencing their minds tomake decisions for themselves
and the way we discussed, I needto be in my parasympathetic
nervous system.
I need to be in a state ofrelease.

So that's what we talk about: release and grounding. (23:30):
undefined
By grounding, we are accessingthe parasympathetic nervous
system.
So it starts with the feet.
So let's do it.
All right.
What we talk about is having inthe soles of our feet a
three-pin plug.
It's like a British uh, youknow, electrical plug that you

(23:51):
plug into the wall.
You've got one underneath yourbig toe.
Have a little feel of that.
I've got my shoes off actuallyhere.
Um, we work a lot with you'llhave noticed Andrew, I made him
take his shoes off.
He was very perturbed by that,but he was very compliant.

SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
Um, I'm just getting my slippers off.

SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
Yeah, take your slippers off.
Everybody, kick your shoes off,kick your slippers off, give
your feet a bit of a playtime.
So I want to think, notice thatbig bony spur underneath your
big toe.
And I want you to think aboutthat, that making contact with
the ground, whether you'reseated or standing.
And then the bony spurunderneath your little toe.
Think about that pressing intothe ground.

(24:28):
And then in your heel.
The massive bony spur of theheel is designed to take our
weight.
Can we think about plugging thatinto the ground?
What we've got now is a nicetriangle shape between those
three points.
So we want to think about theweight being distributed evenly
between those three points,dropping into the center of our
feet.

(24:49):
So take a moment and in themindfulness way, put your mind
into your soles of your feet andlet your weight drop as your
feet spread across the floor.
Even if you're seated, you canstill do this.
To achieve it well if you'reseated, it's not going to be
very helpful to be sitting withyour weight falling into the
back of your chair.
So you might want to bringyourself forward, so you're

(25:11):
sitting in the front third ofyour chair, and the spiky bits
of your bottom, we call thosethe sitz bones, you can see why.
Bottom of your pelvis arepressing into the chair as well.
So we've got that niceconnection now between the feet
and the earth.
And we've got a sense withthrough the soles of our feet
that the earth has got us, it'staking our weight, and we can

(25:34):
start to release.
I'd like you to scan up.
Can you just let go of your calfmuscles?
The tension there is no longernecessary, especially if we
unlock the knees, if you'restanding.
Just take the knees off lock.
Really vital that we think aboutrelease, and the knees are
terrors for gripping and sendingtension up the body, which

(25:55):
translates all the way up to thebrain, and we don't need it.
Let it go.
We can stabilize through ourcore rather than our skeleton,
rather than gripping in theknees.
Now, I'm actually gonna now,Jerry, if I may, I am now gonna
take you to your head, and we'llmeet up in the middle in a
moment.
I'd like you to imagine thatfrom the crown of your head,

(26:18):
where your spine would end if itcame through your skull, there
is a golden thread attached.
This is from Alexandertechnique.
And that golden thread is long,strong, it will never break, and
it's attached at the other endto infinity.
Those are Alexander's words, notmine.
So that is lifting you.
Now it's not from the front ofyour head.
So, Jerry, I think you couldbring your chin down just a

(26:40):
millimeter, or there you go.
It's from your crown.
So notice the difference in meif you're if for Jerry, this is
if I take it here, my chin comesup.
If I allow it to be attached tomy crown, the whole of my spine
will lengthen.
We want to be creating space inour body so the body can be used
in the way it was designed tobe, used free of tension.

(27:02):
And those are the principles ofAlexander technique, and those
are the principles andtechniques we've been using with
our actors for generations.
So you're lengthening up throughthe spine, at the same time,
your weight is dropping eitherinto your feet if you're
standing, or into your um intoyour pelvis in the chair and
into your feet.

(27:24):
Now, so with that sense oflength in the spine, I'd like
you to think about the neckfeeling free.
So could you let the head justgently rotate on the spine?
So by by rotate, I mean we'rejust giving gentle movements to
the right, to the left, and thenwe roll to the back, we roll in
the opposite direction.

(27:44):
We might just gently rollforwards and then let the head
float up.
As if it's a helium balloon,it's tethered by your golden
thread and by um gravity pullingyou down into your feet and your
pelvis.
So it's tethered, but it's free.
Nice sense of freedom in theneck.
Now I'd like you to think aboutthe upper chest and the upper

(28:05):
back expanding into space.
The way Alexander says it isthat the outer edges of your
upper arms are moving away fromeach other.
I just think release and expandacross the body laterally.
Now imagine you've got tinylittle airbags under each
armpit, but just not allowingyour arms to clamp down.

(28:26):
So your arms, you might want tolift one arm and drop it,
they're just floating by yoursides in a state of release.
And what we've got now is we'vegot forces working in opposition
that allow our body to take upits rightful space.
We've got the golden threadlifting us, we've got gravity
dropping us down towards theearth, and we've got the lateral

(28:46):
forces across the body.
So we've got a nice cross, anintersection of forces that
allows this body to expand andtake its rightful space.
Now, if we add into this thatwe're going to let the belly
release, so just put your mindnow into the area below your
navel, below your belly button.
You might even want to just takeyour hands, put your thumbs in

(29:08):
your belly button, and let therest of your hands span the area
underneath.
I call that my pot, you can seewhy.
And let that soften.
Everything underneath yourfingers, can you let the muscles
there just let go, release, andcan you let them start to

(29:28):
respond in sync with yourbreath?
What we want to experience isthat when we breathe out, the
muscles just gently move towardsthe spine, and then when we need
to breathe in, they'll just letgo and move towards the fingers
as we fill up with breath.

(29:49):
We're gonna take a momenttogether and think I'm breathing
out.
As we do that, we'll notice themuscles move backwards towards
the spine.
And then think I'm breathing in.
Notice the muscles move outwardsto fill the space.

(30:11):
What we're doing now is creatinga vacuum free of that tension
that we tend to hold in themuscles in the abdomen, which
create this sense of urgency andgrip.
We don't need it.
The golden thread is creatingactivation in the core that
supports the spine.
We don't need to grip with thesemuscles of the abdomen.

(30:31):
And then we can center thebreath.
We feel that the motor forbreath is behind the belly
button.
And that we're creating spacefor that breath to fill the body
and energize the mind and givefuel to the voice.

(30:51):
So space and time.
How are you feeling?
Good.
What we we tend to do in ourwork is this is sort of to allow
us an experience of beingcentered and grounded.
And we hear those words bandedaround a lot, but that's this

(31:12):
physically is what it means.
Being grounded to the earth,being centered in the breath.
What it also do, what it alsodoes is allow us, as you said
earlier when we were chatting,about what do I do when I notice
I've got out of state?
When I notice I've beentriggered.
We've got to have awareness inour body so we notice it
physically.
We can almost give name to it.

(31:38):
We can start doing somethingabout it.
We need to notice the feelingsin ourselves first and then know
what to do about it.
And for me, it starts withgrounding.
Feel the earth beneath yourfeet, whether you're seating,
seated or standing, lengtheningyour spine, expanding your body,
notice where you're holdingtension, and just we say in
acting, just say no to that, letit go.

(31:59):
And then center your breath.
We have a great uh mantra.
It's it's very short and sweet.
If in doubt, breathe out.

unknown (32:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
If in doubt, breathe out.
So that moment when you'retriggered, breathe out.

SPEAKER_02 (32:12):
It's quite interesting sometimes.
I just I sometimes joke aboutthat because some people are
doing exercises and they're justlike this.

SPEAKER_00 (32:21):
Oh gosh, I know.

SPEAKER_02 (32:22):
And and their whole body, they don't know, they say
it's not working.
It's not working because yourwhole body's now gone into a
sort of state of it's tensed up.
And by the way.

SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
Tension is the enemy of gravity, right?
Uh sorry, tension is the enemyof gravitas and credibility and
creativity.
Tension is the enemy, unlessthere's a fire.
If there's an emergencysituation, we probably want
people to be a bit tense, sothey get into cortisol and get
going.
Otherwise, let's get rid of it.

SPEAKER_02 (32:48):
Great.
Um, and I will probably havesaid this already in this
podcast.
If you were driving your car,maybe you should have stopped.
I hope you're still safe.

SPEAKER_00 (33:04):
Yes, operating heavy machinery, maybe not.

SPEAKER_02 (33:07):
It came with a safety warning, that one.
Uh so uh we'll we might put thatinto the show anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
Um Jerry, can I just can I do one more thing quickly,
actually?
Because I'm just thinking whenwe were talking earlier, and I
and I I'm going to listen toyour uh your band, and I was I
heard you on one of yourprevious podcasts talking about
creating space within the bandfor everybody to bring their
part, for everybody to playtheir part well.

(33:33):
What what and I asked you, doyou tend to do a warm-up before
you what do you take care of onyour preparation?
I really want to encourageeverybody, whether you're an
artist or not, leadership is anart, if you ask if you ask me
anyway, think about what I couldincorporate into my day that's
gonna help me be able to accessall this stuff we've just done

(33:54):
really easily.
Now, if you're carrying loads ofhabitual tension in your body
from being at your laptop,dealing with the kids, driving
in, getting on public transport,that's rammed, all that stuff
that builds tension in our bodywe might not even be aware of,
we're gonna struggle to accessthose things we've just done.
If we spend five minutes only,go to the loo, take five minutes

(34:17):
in there and do some stretchwork, get notice where you're
holding that tension, usuallythe shoulders, and really
squeeze that tension out, rotatethe shoulders, um, rotate the
hip, all that stuff I was doingwith Andrew about cleaning his
wok.
Um if you can get rid of thattension in your body, then
you're gonna be able to accessbeing grounded and centered

(34:39):
much, much more easily.
And other people aren't gonnaread that tension in you, which
you might not even be aware of.
And as we're pack animals, if myshoulders are up by my ears from
my habitual tension I've beencarrying because my kids
wouldn't get to school on time,then I'm gonna create that in my
team.
Everybody's shoulders are gonnaend up round their ears because

(35:00):
it's contagious as anything.

SPEAKER_03 (35:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (35:02):
So if I can let that go, doing what actors do before
they go on stage, then I'msetting up the conditions for
everybody to have a better day.

SPEAKER_02 (35:12):
There there is this, uh, I mean, it's not just
actors.
Oh, hope that's not coming toget one of us, that that siren.

SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
Oh, yes, it's an ambulance.

SPEAKER_02 (35:22):
It was an ambulance, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (35:23):
You can hear that.

SPEAKER_02 (35:23):
I can hear it.
I hope my listeners appreciatedit.
Sound effects.
Um many of us who've done, maybein our younger days, even sport
and athletics and that, there isa warm-up ritual.
You you know, anybody who's beenin a team dressing room before
they go on the pitch, um, yourtalk about acting.

(35:44):
I did a little bit when I wasyoung.
Uh my musical experiences, youdon't just kind of say, Oh,
where's the stage and walk out?
Uh, it it doesn't tend to work.
Maybe some guys are good at it.
I have seen a few coolcharacters in my day.
Most musicians and performerswill go through some ritual that
uh helps them get into thatsense of groundedness they need

(36:05):
for the first five minutes.
It's often that first fiveminutes that once it goes well,
you're in flight, you you getinto the flow of the this the
situation, and yet I it hassurprised me constantly when
working with people who want tobe better presenters, for
example, and their lack ofwillingness or whatever it is to

(36:28):
rehearse is and to to preparefear.

SPEAKER_00 (36:32):
I think it's fear.

SPEAKER_02 (36:33):
Let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 (36:34):
Well, I it's this is my own theory, Jerry.
So don't please attribute thisto anybody other than me.
But I think that that and Irecognize it in myself.
I've had to fight it.
I think it's a fear of findingyourself wanting and startling
yourself, and you trust that inthe moment you're just gonna
find it.
You'll you'll it'll it'll happenand it will be okay.

(36:55):
But if it's not okay, it's notyour fault because you didn't
rehearse.
And if you well, not it's notnot that it's not your fault,
but it doesn't mean you'reuseless.
Next time you'll rehearse and bebetter.
So it leaves you somewhere togo.
It's a fear of finding yourselfwanting, is my feeling.
There's that great expression,and and you'll know this, that
that you know, creating thecontainer in which you can play
jazz.
That's what rehearsal is.

(37:15):
It's not that I'm wedding myselfto doing it a particular way,
unless I'm performingShakespeare and the director
wants it exactly that way.
But even then, it'll still bealive in the moment.
So it's creating the conditionsthat I can be in the moment when
I'm with an audience.
The audience might be somebodyI'm presenting to, but it might
be my team that I'm talking, I'mleading them through a difficult

(37:36):
piece of change material,whatever it might be, I really
need them to be on board.
If I've if I've plotted itthrough in my mind, I can be in
the moment with them as I workthrough it, not scrabbling
either for the the script or thenext thought.

SPEAKER_02 (37:54):
And and the rehearsal, it strikes me, is is
the easiest form of feedback.

unknown (37:59):
Go up.

SPEAKER_02 (38:00):
Well, I mean, you unless you're really good at
beating yourself up, I mean, itit's you're less exposed if you
rehearse it and it goes wrongthan you are if you're in front
of the room and then it getsthen you're feeling the heat.
You know, the contagion worksall different ways.
You're feeling the heat of beingin the moment and saying, Oh my
god, I wish I'd prepared better.
That that apart from anythingelse, that thought pattern isn't

(38:23):
going to help you stay present.
Um you're gonna break connectionbecause people are gonna go,
where did he or she go?
They went somewhere.
So so there's a tremendous valuein doing that.
We had an important presentationrecently to a client, and we had
to work with a team, and we hadto present stuff that people

(38:44):
knew about on our side, and Iinsisted that we rehearsed it.
And we did rehearse it, and itwas clunky as hell the first
time, and the second time it gotbetter, and by the third time we
had flow, and that's what wewanted.
And in the moment it wasslightly different, and at the
same time, looking back, Ithought it was so valuable to us

(39:05):
to have done that.

SPEAKER_00 (39:07):
I mean, why wouldn't you do that if you can do it?
Sometimes you can't, and you'vegot to go out there and find it
in the moment, but as you'vejust described, it risks being
clunky as hell, and thepsychological pressure that
you're under to do that.
If you have the opportunity tocarve those neural pathways in
rehearsal, they have anopportunity to become, you know,
move towards being that sort ofneural superhighway where things

(39:29):
just feel easy.
It blows my mind.
The difficulty we have gettingpeople to rehearse.
My my feeling as well, and Idon't know if you agree with
this, but it's I think it'spartly how we've been trained
through our schooling anduniversity systems.
I think it's changing now, inparticular in universities, but

(39:50):
the focus on the what and notthe how, the focus on the
content.
And I think people don't want torehearse because they want to
keep working on the content,refining the slides, refining
the script, forgetting that'snot what people are gonna
respond to.
People are gonna respond to you,how you show up, how you are.
Do they trust you?
Do they in those first momentswhen you walk on, do they feel

(40:14):
this is somebody I believe andwant to listen to?
And if you're all bound up intension because you're trying to
work out what you're gonna sayfirst or remember what you
planned a few weeks ago, a fewdays ago, you they're just gonna
read it's all gonna leak outyour body, all that grip and
tension.
Let yourself do the rehearsaland go through the pain there
and get the feedback as yousaid.

SPEAKER_02 (40:35):
I think that's actually probably as good a way
to articulate as as as any.
Um, and there is this justtalking to this point, because I
think it's really important, uh,and I want to just explore it
slightly.
I'm gonna segue it intosomething uh else that you know
something about, and that isthere is this kind of macho view
that I'll I'm I'm just gonnawing it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
Oh, I know the winging it thing.

SPEAKER_02 (40:57):
The winging it thing, you know, you know, I I'm
so good I can wing it.
Now let's just reframe that intoI love that you said that's
macho, Jerry.

SPEAKER_00 (41:07):
It is interesting now that you've said that, and I
think I I coach loads and loadsof people, and and I coach
groups.
I've got to be honest, I thinkyou're right.
I hear it, I do hear it morefrom men than women.
Oh, I just wing it.
And I just say, why?
Sorry, I interrupted you, but Ijust thought that was really
interesting that you've saidthat.

SPEAKER_02 (41:25):
It's okay, I'm a man.
I can take it.

SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Are you winging it?

SPEAKER_02 (41:31):
Um, no, but I'm going to get to this next piece,
which is um, I've had some uhlimited experience of improv.
Oh good.

SPEAKER_00 (41:40):
What do you do as a musician?

SPEAKER_02 (41:42):
As a musician, no, in life.

SPEAKER_00 (41:44):
No, but genuinely.

SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
Oh, genuinely, no.
I I had I did some improv.
I I did I ended up doing someimprov workshops over 20 years
ago.
I went to I went to an event, uhkind of people-centered event up
in Finland, and I this thinglooked kind of cool.
It was a Danish organization,and we did all these wonderful
improv from yes and to givinggifts to all that stuff, and I

(42:06):
came away completely like Ithought I got exposed to so many
things, but that was the mostmeaningful thing for me.
It was like so fantastic.
And then I went off and I'vedone some stuff even with my my
kids who are now in their 20swhen they were teenagers, and I
think they thought I was mad,but they keep coming up to me
saying, That was reallybrilliant.
I still remember that weekend wedid, and they ended up on the

(42:28):
stage um at a part of the thingwhich was kind of like, oh my
god, you know, like youngteenagers going, Oh, what am I
doing here?
And yet they said it it was oneof the most beautiful things
they did, and they alwaysremember that.
And at the same time, and I knowsome of the people uh near me
here who uh work a lot with theimprov, it yes, it improviser

(42:51):
makes it look uh easy, andthere's a lot of work goes in to
being good at improv, right?
So let's maybe segue fromwinging it into how to be a
great improviser rather than awinger.
Could we make that distinctionand work with it?
Or is that stretched too far?

SPEAKER_00 (43:10):
Repeat the question.
How to be a great improviserrather than a winger.

SPEAKER_02 (43:14):
Yes.
Because the improviser um is isnot making it up totally.
Yes, we know the response, weknow taking everything.
They have it's like a jazzmusician who who who is given a,
you know, they interact, um, andthey covered this off in boss
class as well in one of theepisodes.
They're they're building it on avery solid foundation, all this

(43:37):
improv.
Like they know their keysignatures, they know their core
progressions, it's just thatthey're now taking it.
So maybe we can you can sharesome things that come from that
world that other the peoplelistening to this now might say,
Oh, that's a really interestingthing.
I've heard about that.
Maybe we explain a fewtechniques that people can use.

(43:57):
Because when you're in a teamdynamic, let's talk about it in
the team dynamics way.
When people are interacting witheach other and you want people
to listen to each other, youwant people to build or become
innovative, there are lots ofgreat things that come out of
the world of improv that enablepeople to establish those
connections and flow that theyneed to be open to exploration.

(44:19):
That's probably where I'm goingwith this.
You can maybe take it where youwant, but whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
Uh uh just so much delicious stuff in there that I
couldn't agree with more.
And I can see that you really doget improvisation.
You've used loads of words thatare really important to me.
You've used the the aboutlistening, about yes and.
We've also covered before aboutbeing present.
And those are the three mostimportant tenets of being a good

(44:47):
improviser.
Let's make the distinction firstabout winging it and then
improvisation, and then let'smove into what makes a great
improviser, if that's all right.
So for me, the differencebetween winging it and
improvising is if you're wingingit, you're in your bubble.
You're there's that you're underpressure, and so you're going to
be very focused in.
Uh, we use a phrase um aboutturning your camera out.

(45:11):
So you not being on selfie view,like a little, you know, you
imagine you've got a littleiPhone camera in your head, and
it can focus in on you or it canfocus out on the world.
If you're winging it, my feelingis you know that you haven't
done your work.
So you're you're slightly infear mode, and not for
everybody.
Some people love this feeling ofwinging it, but they're in that

(45:32):
adrenalized mode, and the camerais in on themselves.
So, how am I doing?
How am I coming across?
What am I going to say next?
For me, improvisation is yourcamera is out, you're in
curiosity and listening.
So you're working to beinterested, not interesting,
which I think you're trying todo when you're winging it.

(45:55):
And you're trying to get throughyour material, make it fun and
or make it interesting and getout.
When you're improvising, you areso attuned, so very present,
very in the moment, and very allyour senses are tingling.
They're alive to what's going onoutside of you, slightly what's

(46:17):
going on inside me too.
I've got to be aware of myselfand my state, I've got to keep
my state calm so that I can stayfocused out.
As soon as we get tense andscared, which is what lots of
happens to lots of people whenthey don't have a script,
because we think through school,we're supposed to know what to
say in advance.
But if we're fearful, our sensesstart to diminish and that

(46:39):
camera starts to swing in.
So we want to ground ourselvesand center ourselves first as
improvisers, so that we can nowstart to put the cameras out and
start to turn on our senses andour listening.
There's a phrase, listen like animproviser.
It was the most important thingI ever learned as an improviser.
It takes all the pressure offme.
I don't need to be clever, Idon't need to be interesting, I

(47:02):
just need to listen really,really well, and it's all there.
And audiences love it when theyexperience you bouncing off
what's coming to you.
It makes you feel very alive andand and alive to the moment,
real, a human being in front ofthem.
The other thing you talked aboutwas yes and.

(47:23):
So I'm sure it's very obvious,but just in case.
We can go into, if I want toprove my expertise and somebody
brings me an idea, you know,somebody from my team says, why
don't we?
Let's I use the example of aparty.
Why don't we have a party on thebig roundabout in the center of
town?
Let's close the street and allthat.
What we can often do is go intoyes, but as you'll know, Jerry.

(47:46):
Oh, yes, but it shows myexpertise, doesn't it?
Yes, but uh we've done thatbefore.
Or yes, but you'll have to closethe road.
Yes, but have you thought aboutthe budget, etc.?
Now that keeps me safe becauseno matter what happens, if it's
a success, uh I was, you know,yes, but give it a try, I'm
safe.
I'm a success.

(48:07):
If it's a failure, I'm safebecause I said, oh, there might
be a problem.
It's not putting myself outthere and collaborating.
If instead I flip to yes and, Imight say yes, and let's also
have a helicopter.
Well, that might go completelyout of control, but we might end
up with some really creativeideas.
In my improv world, that'sgreat.

(48:28):
In the business world, sometimescan be a little bit uh a little
bit stretching on the budget andthe health and safety.
What I want to encourage peopleto think of at work is a yes and
attitude.
So I might say to this personwho I want to feel safe and
included, and I want to givethem the space to bring their

(48:48):
contribution, like you talkedabout, so they can really show
up.
I don't need to have all theanswers, I want to encourage
them to bring their best, butthis isn't the right idea.
I might say, I'm gonna say no tothe roundabout for these
reasons, blah, blah, blah.
And I want to know what wasbehind the idea.

(49:09):
So, what what made you thinkabout the roundabout?
Now I'm respecting that they'vegot a different life history and
a different brain to me, and thekey to what we need to do to
come up with a solution that wewant might be right here in the
air between us two people orthis team together.
So I'm taking a yes andattitude.
Yes, what is it behind that?

(49:30):
And they might say, Well, it'sit's it's iconic, the
roundabout.
And I'll go, Great, we're aniconic brand.
Let's use an iconic location.
Come on, everybody, let's buildon this.
I like this iconic idea.
What else is iconic?
So I'm taking a yes and attitudewithout actually affirming the
particular idea.

(49:50):
I'm affirming the individual andI'm affirming an offer that
they've made.
And in the world of improv, it'sall about offers, curiosity and
offers.
Yeah.
I make an offer, I make it, Imake it with gusto, I commit to
it, but I'm very flexible if myoffer doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 (50:06):
And it's also a very elegant way to disagree, uh,
without necessarily pushing backin somebody's face, because we
can say yes, and there could beanother way of looking at that,
for example.
And yes, and have you consideredthis or that without pushing
pushing it back into your faceand saying it it reminds me of

(50:29):
this notion of advocacy andinquiry.
So I can advocate for what Iwant.
Yes, and if I'm not curiousenough to receive the other
person's response and understandthe response, um yes, but is
going to shut that off veryquickly.
And anybody listening to this,it's not easy to incorporate yes

(50:52):
and into your world.
It takes a lot of practice, andand after a while, you start to
get natural at it.
And you know what happens is younotice your butts.
And sometimes you're you I findmyself, everybody.
And I'm using my butt.
Sorry for the analogy.
I'm using my butt deliberatelyin this context because you

(51:12):
start to choose butt when youthink it's effective, and that's
probably what plays into youridea of the yes and attitude is
knowing when a but might beuseful and not making it your
default reaction to protect toprotect yourself.

SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
And it it is it it's so weakening and yet such a
power play, isn't it?
And I it's really interestingonce I was coaching somebody,
um, and this woman, it was yearsago now, but it really struck
me, and it really struck me,Jerry.
Not but uh, I'd been workingwith her for a while, and she'd
come to me because she had everyqualification from every top

(51:50):
university you can imagine inacross Europe and America and
couldn't get a job.
She couldn't, she'd get to theinterview stage, she'd get a
couple of interviews in, shenever got the job.
And I and yeah, and I wasnoticing in myself, you know, as
coaches and leaders, we need toreally notice our responses and
really try to work out what isbehind that response, what's the
belief, the story?

(52:10):
And then suddenly I it justdropped into my head, everything
I said was received with yesbut.
She had no idea.
I mean, it was astonishing howmuch yes but she used.
And I think it's because she'dbeen so highly educated, she was
in this very academic way ofthinking and not in this
relational way of thinking.
So she was in critical mode, notcreative mode.

(52:32):
And once I explained this, youknow, the brain sort of works a
bit like a swinging door aroundcriticality and creative
thinking, and that she wasshutting me down constantly with
her yes but just flipped herinto practicing yes and.
I can't remember, it was yearsago now, so I won't I won't make
this up.
But shortly thereafter, she gota big job.

(52:53):
She had to practice this yesand, like you said, for quite a
while, but she flipped.
And it was, I actually lookedforward to seeing her.
And then shortly after she leftme because she was suddenly
really successful.

SPEAKER_02 (53:05):
And how did you feel about that?
Wonderful when she left you.

SPEAKER_00 (53:08):
Oh, oh no, no.
I love, I mean, look, I neverdisliked the woman.
I just didn't look forward tocoaching her because it felt
like the door just kept slammingin my face.
Uh I was so delighted that shegot this job.
I mean, first of all, it made mefeel like I'd I could do my job
well.
And secondly, to see that tripchange in somebody when they'd
put so much investment into afuture they just couldn't grab

(53:30):
hold of.
And it was one simple behavioralchange.
It was so exciting.

SPEAKER_02 (53:35):
And and it also demonstrates the power of
contagion in that.
I mean, one of the challengingprofessions, maybe people don't
realize this, the coaches willrealize this, but coaching can
be quite a it drains your energyif the other person saps it
because they stay in a verynegative energy space.
As a coach, you're you your youryour aim is to practice some

(53:55):
empathy, but at the same time,you need to be able to sometimes
come out of the empathy,otherwise you can get suck, suck
in.
So it's actually a very greatexample of how somebody else's
behavior, let's get back tothat, was impacting your ability
to do what do you your best workwith them because they kept
draining that, uh draining yourenergy as as you were

(54:17):
interacting.
That's what I heard anyway,something like that.

SPEAKER_00 (54:20):
Yeah, it's it's so you're right, it's so
contagious.
And you know, the first job of acoach is to check in with, I I
believe, is to check in withthemselves, the check in with
your own body.
So if what is well, I know yougreat coaches do this.
I'm noticing this feeling comingup for myself.
That's part of my toolkit towork with the client, but it's

(54:40):
also my toolkit to work withmyself.
I'm having this response to thisperson.
What can I actually do about itto change my own state?
And in doing so, I'm hopefullygoing to affect them and find a
key, a little crack to get in tohelp open them up.

SPEAKER_02 (54:55):
Okay, coming to the end, right?
So already already, uh, I knowit's uh there'll be a we we
we'll have a sequel.
Um we just don't know when wedon't know whether anybody died
at the end of this one yet.
Um, so we'll have a sequel, uhmaybe at some stage.
Uh and I suppose I always liketo sort of allow or encourage my

(55:21):
guests to share a couple of keytakeaways after we've had this
conversation, particularlysomething that anybody listening
out there would could just startto do.
And we may have covered it offalready, but just as a reminder,
what what is something, one ortwo things you think people
should at least explore thatwould help them become more

(55:43):
aware of their behavior?
What impact is that having?
Uh what can they do maybe tochange some things if they feel
they need to?

SPEAKER_00 (55:54):
Yeah, I mean, this is not specific to my world, but
absolutely seek feedback.
Seek as much feedback frompeople around you as you can.
Remember that behaviors arehabits, so they may require some
self-awareness and somepractice, and we can have it
stack.

(56:14):
Tiny little things that you cando to start shifting yourself
are things like we talk about inacting, opening up your
peripheral window.
So we can run through life withsort of blinkers on, tunnel
vision just in front of me.
What's my laptop saying?
What's the next meeting, etc.?
And actually walking frommeeting to meeting or walking to

(56:35):
your transport in the morning,imagine that your peripheral
windows go from that sort oftunnel vision to a bit like a
mountain goat.
You know, you've got peripheralvision huge round the sides, and
you're going to really open thatup.
The way that the way we weretrained to do that as actors was
to open up our arms wide andlike to their full extent to our

(56:56):
sides, and then wiggle ourfingers, see our fingers while
looking straight ahead.
So see them in your peripheralvision and then drop them.
And then keep that window as youmove through the world until you
need to be in later focus,otherwise keep open.
And what you're doing then iscreating openness to other
people, but you're alsostimulating your senses in a

(57:19):
much wider way.
So you're more open to what'sout there in the world.
And that can really transformsome of the stuck thinking that
we have and can also start toimpact our behavior.
So that's one of them.
And the other is incorporatesome release work into your day
every day.
So let your shoulders go, shakeyour body out.

(57:40):
I call it an Elvis, where youjust shake out your whole body
from top to bottom what you'restanding with this sound.
So get all of that tension outof your body.
And if I may have one more,Jerry.
And that you talked about thisbefore.
We spend a lot of our life invirtual meetings.
So energize your spine.
So sit on that front of thechair, lift up through your
golden thread, and then as muchas you can, try to bring your

(58:03):
eye to that little green, red,blue dot of your where your lens
is on your camera.
And when you're delivering theimportant parts of what you're
saying, introducing yourself atthe beginning of a meeting, for
instance, bring your eye to thatgreen dot.
And then people will really feelseen by you.
And that is a fundamental humanneed to feel seen.

(58:23):
The brain doesn't know thatyou're on a digital medium, the
brain just experiences a senseof being seen.
So we're all going to get alovely oxytocin hit.
We're all going to feel betterand we'll feel that connection.

SPEAKER_02 (58:35):
And on that note, because we are coming to the
end, there is a nice littlevideo of you demonstrating this
that people can check out.
I just I you did it, didn't you?
Yes, it was.
Yes, I will have done.
During COVID, it was.

SPEAKER_03 (58:48):
Oh, yes, yes, years ago.

SPEAKER_02 (58:50):
Years ago, yeah, when you were young.
Okay.

SPEAKER_03 (58:52):
And beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 (58:53):
Or younger.
Um, the other thing is uh youare somewhat famous for your
spoof video, uh, which got 10million hits.
We never got to it, but that'sfor the sequel, I guess.
Or people can watch it, look itup on what is there a title?
Oh, actually, no, I know what.
Um, how how do people get intouch with you?

(59:13):
Can they reach out to you onLinkedIn?
Because I think there's a linkto it on your LinkedIn profile.
Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 (59:19):
There there should be, yes.
Um, yes, I'm on LinkedIn as KateWalker Miles.
Uh Rada Business, the ask atRadabusiness.com.
Um, and thank you, Jonathan'snow bringing me.
So we've got your ask atradabusiness.com.
Uh you can also email me uh atKateWalkerMiles at
RadhaBusiness.com uh orLinkedIn, yeah.

(59:40):
And on LinkedIn, there should bethe link to that.
It was for a charity calledCompassion in World Farming, and
Jerry, it was the mostterrifying thing I've ever done
in my entire life.
It was the one time, the onlytime in my life that I nearly
ran away.
I'm I am the most courageousperson you'll meet.
It's one of those things ofbeing an actor, you've got to be
courageous.
But I very nearly Ran away fromthat.

(01:00:02):
When you see it, you'll knowwhy.
But the audience were clearlygoing to hate me, and I was
pretending that this occasion tobe somebody that I wasn't.
So it was supposed to be a realperson, but it was actually
acting, and the audiencewouldn't know that.
And they were going to loatheme.
And it it was utterlyterrifying.
So that was an occasion whereall these techniques I've been
talking about, I couldn't havesurvived.

(01:00:25):
I thought I was going to have aheart attack.
I couldn't have survived withoutmy grounding, my breath, my
physical release, releasing inmy jaw, so the tension for my
brain that it wasn't goingstraight to my brain, really
centering myself.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:37):
Okay, and I'm going to play this back now.
So anybody out there thinkingI'm always terrified when I have
to do some of these things.
And I gonna put a link to I'mgonna put a link to it in the
show notes so people can watchhow beautifully elegant and
articulate a terrified personwith the right pro appropriate
training in front of an audiencethat was vehemently at one stage

(01:01:01):
becoming somewhat hostile atsome point.
A little bit, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:04):
Yes, they hated me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:05):
And I you carried it off.
I have to say, uh, in myresearch, I do do research for
these programs.
In my research, I thought thatwas pretty cool.
And I'm going to say to people,go watch this.
Um, it it might even touch onsome of your values, maybe not,
and uh enjoy it for what it is.
And it's a great example of Kateum walking her talk and doing

(01:01:28):
applying the techniques, andthen there's a whole bunch of
little videos on the RADAwebsite of you giving tips like
you did during this particularuh episode.
So I'd like to say thank you,Kate, for sharing your wisdom,
insights, and tips with me andmy listeners here today.
My pleasure.

(01:01:51):
Coming up on leading people.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:53):
I'm not saying it's easy.
Uh I'm not saying that griefshould be uh pure joy, that not
at all.
But there are ways, there aretips and tricks to make it
lighter at times, recognize itwhen it needs to be recognized,
get it out, do the crying, dothe do the sadness, do the

(01:02:13):
anger, do all of that.
Um, and then return to thisbeautiful thing called life that
someone like Dixie doesn't haveanymore.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:23):
My next guest is Julie Brown, a returning guest
and one of the most listened-tovoices we've ever featured on
the podcast.
In this deeply personalconversation, she shares how the
tragic loss of her husband,polar explorer Dixie Donsacor,
led her to rethink what it meansto lead through adversity.

(01:02:43):
Her new book, Discover YourPivot, How Strong Leaders Can
Adapt to Any Situation, capturesthese lessons.
And in our conversation, shebrings them to life in a way
that's honest, inspiring, andultimately hopeful.
It's an episode about change,resilience, and rediscovering

(01:03:04):
your strength when everythingshifts.
You won't want to miss it.
And remember, before our nextfull episode, there's another
one simple thing episode waitingfor you.
A quick and actionable tip tohelp you lead and live better.
Keep an eye out for it whereveryou listen to this podcast.

(01:03:25):
Until next time.