August 7, 2024 • 40 mins
Are you prepared to lead with authenticity and make a real impact? It’s time to break free from conventional notions of power and authority and embrace a leadership style that connects deeply with others.
In this episode of the Leading with Power & Purpose Podcast, Sabine speaks with Dr. Pardeep Kullar about her views on influence, power, and authority in leadership. Dr. Kullar is an award-winning educator, business owner, and former executive coach who is transforming the way leadership is taught. Recognized as one of the top 100 educational leaders, she believes women can reclaim their power and identity in leadership by using their innate strengths.
Listen in for tips on how to cultivate genuine relationships, inspire trust, and drive meaningful change. You’ll also discover the benefits of networking with people at higher levels for the wisdom, guidance, and support they can offer.
Key Takeaways:
- Ways women can reclaim their power and identity in leadership roles without sticking to outdated authority models.
- Discover how practices like meditation, journaling, and gratitude can help maintain a positive mindset in leadership.
- Recognize and challenge internal messages that undermine your self-worth and power.
- Understand the importance of self-awareness and focus on where you are now, rather than where you think you should be or where society expects you to be.
What You Will Learn in This Episode:
- [02:32] Dr. Pardeep’s career path, starting as a teacher and transitioning to higher education administration and executive coaching.
- [06:05] The differences between power, authority, and influence and their importance in true leadership.
- [09:48] Strategies to help you leverage your innate strengths and personal roles as valuable leadership skills.
- [13:23] Dr. Pardeep’s self-love practices she utilizes to have the right mindset for leadership.
- [17:24] Sabine shares a personal anecdote about the importance of self-reflection and internal power.
- [21:21] How subconscious beliefs can impact your actions, plus the significance of reflective analysis and asking deep, personal questions to foster growth.
- [26:36] The need for leaders to support the younger workforce by recognizing burnout and offering genuine human connection.
Connect with Dr. Pardeep:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pardeepkullar
Book Recommendation:
Lean In by Nell Scovell and Sheryl Sandberg
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HOST INFO:
Sabine Gedeon is a dynamic force in the world of leadership and personal development. As the Founder of Transformed Leadership Institute and CEO of Gedeon Enterprises, Sabine leverages nearly 20 years of experience to guide clients in both startups and Fortune 500 companies. Her unique approach combines human-centered principles with tech-enabled solutions, delivering customized programs for leaders at all levels to tackle crucial leadership and talent development challenges.
*************
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT:
Download Free Resources - https://sabinegedeon/gifts
Get Coaching Support: https://meetwithsabine.as.me/Discovery
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Are you tired of playing smalland ready to step confidently
into your greatness and shareyour unique brilliance with the
world?
Well, you're in the right place.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI've dedicated nearly two
decades empowering individualsand leaders as they confidently
navigate the twists and turns oflife and career transitions.
If you're seeking direction,connection, or just a little
(00:22):
push to play bigger, considerthis podcast, your VIP path to a
community that genuinelyunderstands your journey.
Join me every week for candidconversations and practical
guidance designed to help younavigate the challenges of life
and business, foster a growthmindset, and cultivate
meaningful connections.
It's time to embrace yourinherent power, define your
(00:44):
unique purpose, and prosper inevery aspect of your life.
Let's get started.
Sabine (00:54):
Hello and welcome to another episode.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI'm excited to be back another
week with you with anotheramazing female powerhouse.
And so today we have with us,dr.
Pardeep Kalar, uh, you're in foran amazing conversation.
We are ready.
We already started and then Irealized I needed to hit record.
So, you know, stay tuned forthis conversation, but before we
(01:17):
get into the meat of things, Iwanted to introduce her real
quick to you.
So Dr.
Pardeep is an award winningeducator, business owner, and
former executive coach who is reimagining the way leadership is
taught Um, in 2020, she foundedKalara college as a corporate
learning partner based on herwork and demand for multi year
learning and developmentpartnerships among top fortune
(01:38):
500 companies, nonprofits, andstartups.
She built Kalar college from theground up, turning a side hustle
consulting practice into a fullonline business, dr.
Kalar has been named as one ofthe top 100 leaders in education
for her role as a game changerand influencer in the world of
leadership and education.
(02:00):
So with that, welcome to theshow, Dr.
Pardee.
Dr. Pardeep (02:04):
Hi,
Sabine (02:05):
thank you.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So amazing.
Uh, accomplishments andbackgrounds.
I love the fact that you listedthat you, you took a side hustle
to a business and now you are,you are recognized as one of the
top 100 educators.
So I know there's a journey thatyou went on before you were at
(02:26):
this place.
If you would high level, justwalk us through your, your
career journey and your careerpath.
Dr. Pardeep (02:32):
Yeah, happily.
So, you know, I started out as ateacher way back in the day,
and, um, from there moved oninto higher ed administration
and while I was earning mydoctorate, um, part of the
responsibilities, uh, we hadwere that we had to do pro bono
consulting projects withdifferent firms, different
companies.
And those pro bono projectsended up turning into, uh,
(02:55):
executive consulting andcoaching opportunities on the.
Um, and I kept, um, taking onand continuing as I pursued my
career in, in higher educationadministration.
So I was learning this, uh, onone side, I was leading.
Uh, colleges, small colleges andlike their academics and their
curriculum and their staff andfaculty, how to teach, what to
(03:16):
teach, what to cover adultlearning theory.
And then on the other side, Iwas getting to work with
executives and leaders to reallyhelp them hone their leadership
skills or communication skillsin a one on one environment.
So it was a really, uh, kind ofa unique opportunity to do both.
And, um, then in 2020, I decidedto leave higher ed and was like,
(03:38):
I think I'm ready to kind oflaunch off and do my own thing.
And then I founded CollarCollege and, um, it, it just
landed.
I think it was, it came at sucha pivotal moment in time because
that was.
When you know the covid crisisthat hit and leadership was
really struggling with.
How do we first of all goremote?
A lot of organizations didn'teven know what to do, how to do
(04:00):
it.
And then secondly, what are theconversations that need to be
had in order to ensure themorale and the Unity of our
staff that are now no longer inthe office, but are remote and
we're trying to stay connectedin this virtual space.
Sabine (04:15):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So we're, we're going to getinto a little bit more
conversation about the work thatyou do in terms of, of
leadership development today.
Um, but I also wanted to spendsome of this time talking about,
the opportunity for.
Women not only to just begin tostep into leadership
opportunities in theirbusinesses and their careers and
(04:37):
whatnot, but also really regainback a sense of identity when it
comes to who they are asleadership, who they are as
leaders, as well as the innatepower that they have just being
themselves without having tochange or shift or adapt or
assimilate to a particularenvironment.
(04:57):
And so we've been having thisconversation around, power.
And really I feel because ofwhat is coming ahead, that it's
important for us to start havingthese conversations as women and
I guess, demystifying any mythsthat we've, uh, held onto around
what it means to, to be apowerful person, as well as look
(05:18):
at some of the messages thathave made us abdicate.
Our right to be powerful, ourinnate, uh, capacity to, to step
in on that place.
So I'm curious, and I've beenasking guests, you know, uh,
oftentimes we use these termsinterchangeably.
So power authority influence.
(05:38):
Um, and the more that I've duginto this, the more that I'm
like, Oh no, these are threeseparate things.
It's almost like DEI.
Everyone just like bundles DEIinto one thing.
But there are three separate,uh, categories, if you will.
So I'm curious what, as I say,these words, power, authority,
and influence, what comes tomind and how do you personally
(05:59):
differentiate these three basedon your experiences?
So
Dr. Pardeep (06:06):
I definitely think there are three separate terms
that are interchangeably used,but they have very distinct
meanings.
When I think of leadership, Ithink of influence above
anything else.
I think the person who's able toinfluence others, influence a
(06:26):
team, influence decision making,that is a leader, whether they
have the title or not.
And I think power is somethingthat people utilize in the
context of the position.
So it's more of a politicalplay, right?
So what, what I've seen inorganizations is someone may
(06:48):
have the title.
And because of that, they areassumed to be in this
authoritative role, but reallythey lack the influence.
And when you don't haveinfluence, you really don't have
power, you know?
And, and so I think there'sthis, this understanding that
has to come into place of liketrue power isn't having a title
(07:08):
or, or, or being at the, youknow, top of the, the chain.
But it really is about yourability to connect with people
and build relationships and havethose conversations and the, and
the connection to the, thebehind the scenes and when I say
behind the scenes, I don't meanlike the office work.
I don't mean the project tasks.
(07:29):
I mean, behind the scenes of thehuman.
So when you're able to connectto that, you really have true
connection and you really haveat that point the ability to
leverage or build influence.
you know, and I think withoutthat you, you can be in whatever
position, but if nobody likesyou, if you're not connected to
anybody, you're going to bestanding alone.
(07:51):
It's going to be harder for youto pull or get everybody your
way.
And authority is, I think,credibility.
Authority is credibility.
When you have been able toorganize a team or to get a
collective to move in thedirection together in unity
(08:14):
towards a greater cause, agreater outcome, a greater goal,
then that's on your, you know,on your resume that that's
credibility.
Sabine (08:25):
I love the fact that you said authority is credibility
because I think I love thatperspective because I don't know
that that's how That's how mostpeople see it.
And basically that's not howit's modeled.
And that's not how that's notthe, the narrative, if you will.
So when we think aboutauthority, it's usually very,
you know, command and controlpower over.
(08:49):
Right.
And so I know a lot of womenjust, just our natural state.
We're more effective when weleverage power with versus power
over and so words like authorityfeel very quote unquote, as they
call it masculine or feel youknow that it's, it's not that we
don't want that we don't wantauthority but at the end of the
(09:10):
day.
All three of those components,power, authority, influence are
necessary in order to movethings forward.
Um, it's, it's the manner inwhich we demonstrate it.
And so I'm, I, I love that, thatperspective.
The other thing that I, I heardyou say with respect to
influence, it's really the, it'sreally the outcome.
(09:32):
Or the effect, if you will, ofbeing in your place of power, in
your place of influence.
Really, it's, it's, it's what wesee as the outward result of who
we're being.
Is that, is that accurate?
Oh,
Dr. Pardeep (09:48):
completely.
If you want to Just do a pulsecheck of like where you stand
with your team, then I would Iwould start with like creating a
fun project, even something aslike we're gonna, you know, do a
ice cream sundae or ice creamsocial or something and see
which of your team members showup.
Hmm.
And you can see right away kindof like how much influence you
(10:10):
really have.
Sabine (10:12):
Wow.
Wow.
That yeah, again, another, Ilove the way that you, you share
that example, and so I, I'm, Iwant to continue to have these
conversations because I want tobreak down that disconnect of
how we can feel powerful incertain environments and then
get into others.
And completely abdicate orcompletely relinquish that
(10:34):
power,
Dr. Pardeep (10:35):
I think that is such a, I almost want to say a
necessary movement.
Because when we're able to tapinto our inner power, our inner
strength and who we are as justwomen, naturally we're
nurturing, we're giving, we'rethoughtful, we're kind, we're
strategic, we're analytical,like we have some of these
(10:57):
elements already built into oursense of being.
Because of being a sister, beinga daughter, being a mother,
being an aunt, just in our homeperson, being a friend in our
personal roles, right?
We show up in this way.
And if we can take this same waythat we show up in our personal
roles and put ourselves in ourprofessional role, we have
(11:20):
greater leverage.
We have greater power.
You know, um, I, when I was, uh,When I do a lot of coaching and
consulting, like I've workedwith moms that have like left
the workforce and are after, youknow, decided to raise their
children and now are trying tore enter and now they're like, I
don't have any leadershipskills.
(11:40):
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
You've got more than probably.
That's what most people need,and it's just that space of like
owning that authority, thatcredibility rights.
And so I, I will usually tiewell, like you just said, have
you been able to get your kidsto bet on time?
Have you been able to guide themon how to be good human beings?
(12:01):
Have you been able to help themorganize and, and structure
their schedule and their routinefor sports and for activities
and for homework?
And I was like, and have youbeen able to take care of them
and feed them and make surethey're alive?
I was like, well, those alltranslate into actually like
really good skills that we needin professional in the
(12:22):
professional work world forleaders or as leaders, you know?
And so I think when you're ableto say, Hey, I already have this
in me.
Can I bring this to the table?
And how do I showcase thatwithout feeling like I have to
dim my light now?
Because The version ofleadership I'm seeing doesn't
match what I have.
Sabine (12:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
Uh, dim the light.
Cause that, that is definitelywhat I'm, I'm over, uh, for me
personally and for the brilliantwomen who are in my network and
who I come across day after dayafter day.
So you brought up a point aroundpersonal power and I just wanted
(13:02):
to ask a real quick questionabout that as it relates to you
being able to maintain yourpersonal power.
Like what, what do you do?
Like what is, what is your, yourgo to, uh, form of reminder of
this is who I am.
I am powerful no matter what theexternal, uh, environment looks
like.
Dr. Pardeep (13:23):
You know, I have a toolkit of self care, I would
say, or like self love practicesI utilize to ensure that my
mindset and my heart space arein the right place for me to
lead.
And I think to do that, it'sconstant, you know, there's
going to be setbacks.
That's just everyday life.
We're going to be knocked down.
(13:44):
Somebody's going to tell youyou're not smart enough.
You're not good enough.
You're not qualified enough.
You don't have the background.
You don't have what I need.
Somebody is always going to say,I've already been there, done
that.
I could do it better than you.
And, you know, and, and one ofthe things I've learned is.
Okay, great.
I'm not in competition withanybody.
I'm in competition with myyesterself, right?
So I just want to be better thanwho I was yesterday.
(14:06):
So if I showed up yesterday onmy a game, I got to be on a plus
today.
And yesterday I was on my a gameand I got knocked down by these
conversations, these, these, youknow, what we call micro
conversations that just kind ofmicro slides, they keep adding
up, they keep adding up.
And then I was like, okay, well,I got to wake up and get back on
a plus today.
(14:26):
Cause yesterday I was on aprobably finished the day at
like B minus, but I got to getback to, if I started at a, I
got to try to be at a plus tostart my day.
And I will do things like Imeditate.
So, you know, um, there'sdifferent meditation practices.
I like yoga nidra a lot.
So I do that.
I do other guided me, uh,meditation on a regular basis.
(14:46):
I do journaling.
Um, I don't necessarily do itevery morning, but I'm in tune
with myself enough to know, hey,I've gotta journal some stuff
today.
Mm-hmm.
I'll do journaling, um,sometimes if I really need a
boost.
I will do 100 gratitudes firstthing I wake up, and they are
not just gratitudes I'm gratefulfor the sunshine I'm grateful
for, you know, for this morningcoffee, they're in depth
(15:09):
gratitudes that go into like whyI'm grateful for this for the
sunshine or why I'm feelinggrateful for, you know, my
morning coffee.
I also have for a long time,I've been doing.
I used to call it like gratitudewalks.
So I'd partner with a friend andwe set up a time every day,
lunchtime or something.
And we'd get on the phone and wewould do gratitude walks.
(15:32):
Like we'd probably go for awalk.
I'm here and they're whereverthey are.
And we just share gratitudes andwe, and it would really kind of
help us amp up the energybecause we'd feel the momentum
from each other.
And that brought a lot of likegreatness.
Into who I am and the gratitudesweren't necessarily external.
They were about ourselves.
So there's there's a reason likeyou have to focus on like the
(15:54):
things that you're grateful for.
I'm grateful for being a smartand astute woman.
I'm grateful for being a greatleader.
I'm grateful for having a teamthat loves and respects me.
I'm grateful for beingvulnerable enough and confident
enough to expose myself to myneeds.
Thank you.
To my team members in momentswhen they need those
(16:15):
conversations the most right.
So I think owning that is thefirst step.
And when you can just kind ofsay, I'm grateful for being
human.
I'm grateful for showing up asme.
And I know that me is making adifference that makes a big
impact.
One of the things I learned whenI was in higher ed
administration was that you needto have a Team of women that can
(16:36):
support you that are in similarroles to you.
And when I mean similar roles, Imean, it could be, you know,
women that are married withfamilies, if that's where you're
at women that are, you know, athigh career levels, if that's
where you're at, or women thatare leading, you know,
transformational projects orwhatever it could be, but you've
got to find that network that'sat your level.
(16:57):
And the challenge is this, whenyou find that network, one of
you has to be strong,comfortable and confident enough
to be vulnerable, to break thatice, that surface level of like,
we're all at the same level.
I've got this work problem.
I've got this work problem toreally have those deep
conversations, to build thoserelationships that when time
(17:20):
push comes to shove, you canlean on each other.
Sabine (17:24):
So many, so many powerful nuggets here.
I'm writing ferociously overhere.
So on the, on the gratitude, Iabsolutely love that.
starting your day with gratitudeand not surface level gratitude,
but deeply within like, this iswho I am.
This is, these are the thingsthat I'm grateful for.
(17:44):
It really does shift yourperspective and it allows you
to.
start at that a plus, right?
Knowing that at some pointduring the day, you may get
knocked down a bit.
Um, and I love the fact thatyou, you know, you're the reset
every day, right?
So yes, we ended at B minus, butwe get a clean slate the next
day.
Um, not too.
(18:05):
Not too long ago.
And I'm sharing this because itties in.
And also for those of you whoare listening, um, I know my
audience is mostly type a right.
And so like every day has to bean a day, right?
Like we're not okay when the dayis not an a day, but, um, not
too long ago I had, I hadstarted the morning off like a
(18:26):
plus, right?
Like you couldn't tell meanything.
I was ready to conquer theworld.
And I was in that feeling.
And then I found myself maybefor about like 30 minutes.
Scrolling through, uh,navigating between LinkedIn and
Instagram, right?
And at one point, I was justlike, What are you looking for?
What are you, what, what, whatare you doing right now?
(18:47):
Like, first of all, you havework to do.
And secondly, what are youlooking for?
And I had to sit with thatquestion.
And in that moment, I didn'tknow what I was looking for, but
I just knew I couldn't, not thatI couldn't stop, but I just
knew, like, there was this tugin me to, like, keep scrolling
mindlessly.
And then it wasn't until thenext day when I was doing My
(19:07):
Gratitude, um, that it dawned onme, it hit me, it was just like,
I started at A and it feltgreat, and it felt amazing.
But something within me didn'tbelieve that it was okay.
to have an A plus day.
And so I was looking forevidence that something, there
was a flaw somewhere orsomething I wasn't doing enough
(19:29):
or this person was better thanme or data.
And in the moment when I wasdoing it, of course, no one's
thinking that right.
But it wasn't until I sat downwith myself and said, okay,
well, what was I looking foryesterday?
And I got a little bit ofinsight into, into my mind that
still needs healing as much workas I've done that says.
Even when you're having that aplus, even when you're feeling
(19:51):
powerful and you're feelingwithin yourself, there might be
still messages or there mightstill be things that bring you
down.
So, you know, it's not alwaysabout looking at out externally
of what's happening around you.
But it's also doing that gutcheck and that, you know,
silencing the inner critic, as Iused to like to call it.
Um, and recognizing the ways inwhich even in our own day and
(20:14):
our daily practices and how wediminish our own light.
Um, and so I just wanted toshare that because you, you
brought that up and thattriggered it for me.
And then the last thing withregards to networking with
people on your level, I.
think that that is an amazingtidbit.
So for those of you who arelistening, I hope I hope you
took that.
(20:34):
It's so important to besurrounded by individuals who
are at your level.
And then the other thing that Iwould say to that, and this is a
a revelation that I've had isthat oftentimes we as women,
especially when there's stillsome, uh, denial of how powerful
we are, we will downplay.
(20:55):
What our level is and putourselves in positions and
around surround ourselves andnetworks with people who we have
to then carry or who we have toconstantly pull up.
Um, and so I just want for us tobe very mindful that, you know,
as we're thinking about who's onmy level that we're doing it
from a lens of where we actuallyare and not where, you know,
(21:16):
we've told ourselves we are orsociety has told us we are.
Dr. Pardeep (21:21):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you on that.
I also think like, so I want toaddress both of your points
there.
Um, so, you know, I'll go, I'llgo to the Instagram, LinkedIn,
social media aspect first.
So one of the things is verytrue is that our mind
subconsciously, if we don'tthink we're a plus, it's going
to bring us down.
(21:41):
Our actions are going to take usto whatever we think we are.
If we think we're B minus,they're going to keep us there.
Right.
And it's.
Whatever we do is going to bringus there, but we have to
intentionally move to a plusover and over and over every
moment, right?
So unless you're in flow zone,which you're like, kind of just
like you're in the flow, you'rein the zone.
You're like, you have no senseof time.
(22:02):
You're just so passionate aboutwhat you're doing, but you are
doing something for some.
out for some outcome, not justscrolling.
The question I always say is whyI asked myself, not what am I
doing this for?
What am I looking for?
I always say why, because why isa very personal question.
And I'll say, uh, why are youscrolling pretty like what's
(22:24):
going on with you?
So I'll ask a very personalquestion to myself.
And that question, because I'min the safety of my own self, I
should be able to answerhonestly.
And when once you have theanswer, I can then own it and I
can say, okay, yeah, I don'tfeel like a plus today.
I feel like maybe I'm a B minusor, you know, um, I feel
(22:46):
insecure, whatever the feelingcould be.
And once you own that feeling,oddly enough, once you own it,
like it shifts your behavior,you're no longer like trying to
just, you know, and I, so I, sothat's the other thing is just
like asking those questions thatget to your core that just.
Cut deep down inside one of thethings with color college we do.
(23:07):
And when I first introduced the,the, our platform to the board,
to my board, one of my boardmembers reached out afterwards.
And she said to me, she said,you're you're like, we do a lot
of reflective analysis.
So they do a lot of reflection.
We ask deep questions till Ikind of get to the core.
And she had said, she was like,gosh, those questions are like,
like, so, um, What was the word?
(23:30):
So intricate.
She's like, I don't know if Iwould feel so I would feel
comfortable even sharing that.
And I said, exactly.
That's why we asked them becausewe want leaders that can get to
this place of answering thosequestions and having those
conversations.
And then, um, to the secondpoint, so there's two points to
that.
One is not only downplaying,like, if you, like, wherever you
(23:54):
are, yes, meet someone at thatlevel or above.
Because the thing when meetingsomeone above your level is
they've been at your level.
They have some wisdom, someinsight, some guidance they can
give to you.
Um, like in my, my lastposition, I was a provost, I was
a vice president of academicaffairs.
(24:15):
And so I chose to build anetwork with other provosts who
were in the same positions asme, but also with female
presidents of colleges.
Because I could then learn fromthem, right?
So one of the things is you alsowant to say, can you, you don't
want to, I'm not necessarilytrying to land in that position.
If you are, that's great too,but they've been where you're
(24:38):
at.
So they have wisdom to say, Hey,you know what?
Let that one slide.
You know what?
Just do a self check on that.
That's not worth a conversation.
That's not worth, you know, asetback for you.
Or they might say, you know,like they can give you a
different insight than someoneat your own level can, but it is
important to have thoseconversations.
(24:59):
And one of the things I gotreally good at really fast was
breaking that ice and gettinginto a vulnerable space.
And I, I think I was good atthat because I'd done that with
my executive coaching.
Like I had to really build abuild rapport within like the
first, like five seconds, youknow, make sure they'd want to
open up to me.
So, but by doing that, it showsyour vulnerability, your
willingness to learn and getcoached as well as your openness
(25:22):
to hear them and hear theirstory.
Yeah.
Sabine (25:25):
Yeah.
Totally agree.
And I love that you brought inthe, you know, don't be afraid
to reach out and connect andbuild relationships with people
who are above you.
Cause you know, we'll, we'll getimposter syndrome quick.
Like, Oh, I'm not where she isor, Oh, I'm not.
And then you look at our malecounterparts and they're like,
Oh.
If he could do it, I can do it.
Like, and they're so willing tobuild relationships with people
(25:48):
who, you know, are quote,unquote above their level.
And so I love that you broughtthat in.
So, uh, so many nuggets here.
I hope you are all taking notesunless you're driving a course.
Uh, you can always go back andlisten to it.
Um, but one, one last questionthat I have for you, and then
we'll go into the blitz sectionhere, you know, in terms of
societal impact, what are yourthoughts in terms of what women
(26:11):
in leadership roles can do toinspire and empower the next
generation.
Um, so that, you know, while wemay have had to, to learn things
the hard way, uh, what can webegin to impart so that the next
generation, the Gen Z's, thealphas and whoever comes else
afterwards, that they have aclearer path and a less, um,
(26:33):
strenuous, uh, journey.
I think we can
Dr. Pardeep (26:37):
definitely impart the.
The responsibility to show up asa human.
And when, when I say that, whatI mean is the outcomes and the
goals and you know, thestrategic plans and all that for
the job for the work for thecompany are always going to be
there.
But we also need this element ofus being able to show up as
(27:00):
human to support one another tosupport the, the, you know, the
new workforce as they're comingin and as they're stepping into
those shoes.
Thank you.
So that they have anunderstanding, you know, um,
burnout is real.
And it's, it's as much as it'sreal in the older generations.
It's actually been even morereal for the younger generation.
(27:22):
That's just entered theworkforce.
They don't have 15, 20 yearsunder their belt.
They maybe have four or five or,you know, eight at best, maybe,
you know, and I think if we cansay, okay, first of all.
Honor that to say it's okay tofeel this way.
It's okay for you to go throughthis.
What do you need?
(27:42):
And second to that is if we canhave leaders when we see
someone's talent.
Let's ask those questions.
What are your goals in fiveyears?
Where do you see yourself?
Do you want to get promoted?
Do you want to be in a differentposition?
And I think that is reallytelling.
Like sometimes I've met peopleI've, I've worked with, with
(28:04):
people I should say that I thinkare very talented, that I would
love to push and really motivateand encourage and kind of mentor
to the next level, but they'renot at that place in their life.
Because maybe they have otherobligations or other desires.
Maybe they have a side hustle,something else they're
passionate about that they wantto put more energy towards.
So as much as I think they'd begreat in this company to step
(28:26):
into a leadership role, they'rereally like, I like where I'm at
because I really want to do, Ireally want in five years from
now, turn my passion into my, mybusiness, you know?
So I think it's reallyunderstanding where individuals
are coming from to, to say,okay, where, where, what, who do
you want to be?
Where are you trying to go to?
And then you have, you will getpeople also that are just like,
(28:49):
I really don't know.
I'm here right now.
And I don't know where I'mgoing.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
And I just share, you know, ifsomebody asks my story, I'll
share it openly.
And I think the more we can showup from this place of not being
afraid to share who we've been.
And how we've gotten to where weare, especially sharing what
(29:11):
doesn't get shared often, butwhat needs to get shared are
those moments when we were cut,when we were knocked down, when
we had to find our innerresourcefulness, our inner
strength.
To say, Hey, I am good enough.
Hey, I'm going to get up and tryagain.
And I think those are thestories.
If we share more of those withpeople and we have those
(29:33):
conversations, it helps peoplefeel more human too, in the way
they relate to us and the waythey show up in their job and
the way they understand who theyare and what they're going
through and in their way ofrespecting you and being able to
rely on your, just to look up toyou to say, okay, like, Hey, I,
I'm not sure about this, but Ineed some help.
You know, um, you know, myyounger.
(29:53):
Years, I remember one time Iwalked into an office and I
don't know what the situationwas and I got really I, um, I
teared up in front of my bossand I remember them back then my
boyfriend back then when I toldhim about it, he said, you
shouldn't have done that.
You shouldn't have shown anyemotions to your boss.
Right.
And so ever since then, you'relike, okay, you can't like as a
(30:14):
female, you can't do thatbecause it.
Makes you look weak orvulnerable or whatever it is
right and oddly enough sincethen that was a lot that was 20
years ago, but since then Iwould say I've had so many
people like so many of my staffmembers that have come into my
office, but I've given them thespace to be vulnerable.
(30:34):
And, you know, and in some casesI've cried with them, you know,
and it doesn't make me weak andit doesn't make me a soft leader
and it didn't change myrelationship with them in any
kind of way where they would nolonger see me, you know, in my
role.
But it actually made itstronger, strengthened it
because they had greater trustin me all of a sudden.
Yeah, right.
(30:55):
It builds that bond of like,Hey, this person sees me as a
human and I can be myself,right?
And that also then went to thisplace of like, when I saw
somebody really struggling, Iwas able to say, I was able to
say, Hey, I think you need totake a week off.
Like, Hey, I think you need totake some time off or, or give
them recommendations of like,Hey, try this or try this or do
(31:17):
this.
Like I was just saying yoga ormeditation or gratitude.
Right.
And you can't see those things.
You can't see people need thosethings until we're able to show
up as humans.
Yeah.
Sabine (31:28):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
I could listen to you for hours.
Uh, um, but I want to berespectful of your time here.
And so, um, as we move into thisblip session, I named a couple
of things here.
Have you shared a couple ofthings here, but I'm curious if
you If you could go back to ayounger version of yourself and
(31:49):
give her a piece of adviceknowing what you know now and
the experiences that you've had,people that you've coached and
mentored, uh, what might you sayto her?
Uh, you know,
Dr. Pardeep (32:01):
some of the stuff I've already said that you are
strong enough, you are smartenough, you are capable, you can
do this.
Um, I would I think I would goback and just say, don't be
afraid to be yourself, you know,your, your, your creativity,
(32:21):
your imagination, your abilityto deliver is going to surpass
all expectations when you canstep into who you are and just
own it.
And I think there's some elementof being quirky right like, you
know, be, you know, dare to bedifferent.
There's that's that's actually areally big strength and I think
(32:42):
a lot of people shy away fromfrom stepping into that they
feel like they have to fit in,you know, and and Brene Brown
talks about this, you know,fitting in is the complete
opposite of belonging.
If you want to if you want tofeel like you belong, don't fit
in.
Right.
I would say
Sabine (33:03):
that.
I love that.
Um, and then looking ahead, asyou know, 40 5060 however many
years from now as you're lookingback.
Um, over your life and theimpact that you've made and the,
the lives that you've been ableto change and just the things
that you've been able to, to, todo for yourself, you know, what
do you want that narrative tobe?
(33:24):
What do you want, what do youwant the, the conversation in
your own head to be about whatyou've accomplished and the
legacy that you're leaving?
Dr. Pardeep (33:35):
That's a very good question.
If I'm looking back and youknow, in my rocking chair in my
90s, I'm sharing my story withmy grandkids or something, I
would really want to be able tosay that I lived from my heart
and I led myself first.
In the beauty of leading myself,I was able to add beauty to the
(33:58):
world.
Whether that was in the contextof Klar College, whether that
was in the context of thedifferent roles I had previous
to, to my job now, or whetherthat's in the context of
whatever might come next for me.
But I really think like if wewanna make a difference in the
world, we have to be able tofirst.
Make a difference withourselves.
So I, when I looking back, Iwant to always, I always say, am
I doing this from my heart spaceor am I doing this from my head
(34:20):
space?
You know, a lot of the greatresignation circling back to
that was, was a movement fromthe heart space.
You know, I think all of asudden was so much going on that
it was really kind of like ouracknowledge them at some level.
(34:41):
And, you know, When you gothrough something like that, you
know, it puts you in a positionof like, well, what's next
because you're vulnerable,you're beat down, you're worn
out, you're exhausted, you'requestioning your own rationale,
right?
And you're looking at yourfinances, you're looking at your
family, you're looking at your,you know, everything else lines
(35:03):
up and it becomes real.
So the one thing that is theeasiest to do Is to turn away
from that heart space and goback into head space.
And I think from heart space isreally where true beauty, true
greatness comes.
And if we can say, I havesomething great to offer, and
(35:23):
I'm going to figure out how tooffer it to the world from this
place where I'm at right now,without having to sell my soul
and go back into this work worldwhere I was not happy.
I was not where I belong.
It didn't fit me.
I was inauthentic.
I couldn't be myself, but I hadto be this other person for this
role.
I think, um, that's where youcan leverage your power.
(35:44):
Your power comes when we're ableto say, am I doing this from my
heart or am I doing it from myhead?
And then if you're doing it fromyour head, I would say.
I don't know if that's going tobe your legacy, but from your
heart, that'll probably becomeyour story.
Sabine (35:59):
Agreed.
That is beautiful.
And then the last question foryou is, um, you know, have there
been any books at being aneducator?
I can imagine you, you readquite often, uh, is there a book
or any books that have beenpivotal for you in your growth,
in your development?
I've either personally orprofessionally.
Dr. Pardeep (36:19):
You know, uh, about, uh, almost 10 years ago
or so, I was a really big, I'dread, um, Sheryl Sandberg's Lean
In, and I was, you know, prettymuch telling everyone to read
it, because that book, um, I'mnot sure, you know, but what it
did for me was it I went back Iwas a chief academic officer at
(36:41):
a small private college backthen and I went back to the
drawing board with the presidentof the college and I said, I
want to work half the time and Iwant you to pay me three times
as much, and I will keep all ofyour campuses open all of your
programs accredited, and I willlead all of the faculty and
handle everything still.
And because I'd been there inthis, this present new, my, my
(37:04):
work ethic and my, what I coulddeliver on, he agreed to it.
And had I not read that book, Imight not have had the courage
to say, I want to work half,half the time.
And I want you to pay me threetimes as much, you know, because
I think a lot of the challengesthat we are too afraid to ask as
(37:26):
women, we think we're not worthit.
So here's what happens.
The thought crosses our mind,like, I wish I could get a
higher salary or I wish I couldmove into a different position.
But then, then the doubt alsocomes in that the feeling of
like, I'm not worth it.
Oh, no, there's somebody morequalified.
(37:47):
Oh, no, they got to have thatposition for somebody else.
And because of that, we don'ttake that chance of asking all
that could happen is somebodycould say no.
And then you can redirect andsay, okay, well, is this
something I really want?
If so, how do I go about makingit happen?
Yeah.
Maybe it's not at that office.
It's not at that company.
(38:07):
Maybe it's somewhere else, butit opens that door for you to
start moving in that directionversus just.
Neglecting yourself.
Sabine (38:14):
Agreed, agreed.
Um, and so as we wrap up here,in terms of connecting with you,
because I'm sure the audiencehas, is like, okay, I need, I
need her in my life somewhere.
Um, where can people connectwith you?
Where do you hang out on social?
Dr. Pardeep (38:32):
LinkedIn is a good spot.
I'm on LinkedIn.
They can find me there.
Sabine (38:35):
Okay, awesome.
So with that, Dr.
Pardee, thank you so much for,for joining.
Thank you for yourvulnerability.
Thank you for your honesty andsharing and having this really,
uh, rich conversation.
Um, not, and not superficial aswe talked about before around
what it means to just be.
Who you are and own your powerand own your, your leadership
(38:58):
and own all of the things that,that are innate to us as human
beings.
So I really appreciate thecandor.
I really appreciate yourtransparency and vulnerability.
Thank you
Dr. Pardeep (39:07):
so much.
It was a pleasure to be here.
Sabine (39:09):
Thank you.
Awesome.
So with that, we will be backnext week chatting with another
female powerhouse until thenhave a great rest of the week
and we'll talk soon.
Take care.
Hope you enjoyed this week'sepisode.
If you found today'sconversation helpful, or got a
piece of insight that you planto implement in your life, I'd
(39:30):
love to hear from you.
Connect with me on LinkedIn atSabine Gideon and send me a
message, or feel free to leave areview on either Apple or
Spotify.
I also invite you to share thisepisode with anyone in your
network, another powerhouse,possibly who you think might
benefit from today'sconversation.
Lastly, as always, any links,any resources, or any upcoming
(39:51):
training is included in the shownotes.
So be sure to check that beforeyou leave today until we chat
again, have a blessed andpowerful week.
Are you tired of playing smalland ready to step confidently
into your greatness and shareyour unique brilliance with the
world?
Well, you're in the right place.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI've dedicated nearly two
decades empowering individualsand leaders as they confidently
navigate the twists and turns oflife and career transitions.
If you're seeking direction,connection, or just a little
(00:22):
push to play bigger, considerthis podcast, your VIP path to a
community that genuinelyunderstands your journey.
Join me every week for candidconversations and practical
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and business, foster a growthmindset, and cultivate
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It's time to embrace yourinherent power, define your
(00:44):
unique purpose, and prosper inevery aspect of your life.
Let's get started.
Sabine (00:54):
Hello and welcome to another episode.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI'm excited to be back another
week with you with anotheramazing female powerhouse.
And so today we have with us,dr.
Pardeep Kalar, uh, you're in foran amazing conversation.
We are ready.
We already started and then Irealized I needed to hit record.
So, you know, stay tuned forthis conversation, but before we
(01:17):
get into the meat of things, Iwanted to introduce her real
quick to you.
So Dr.
Pardeep is an award winningeducator, business owner, and
former executive coach who is reimagining the way leadership is
taught Um, in 2020, she foundedKalara college as a corporate
learning partner based on herwork and demand for multi year
learning and developmentpartnerships among top fortune
(01:38):
500 companies, nonprofits, andstartups.
She built Kalar college from theground up, turning a side hustle
consulting practice into a fullonline business, dr.
Kalar has been named as one ofthe top 100 leaders in education
for her role as a game changerand influencer in the world of
leadership and education.
(02:00):
So with that, welcome to theshow, Dr.
Pardee.
Dr. Pardeep (02:04):
Hi,
Sabine (02:05):
thank you.
Yes.
Yes.
Okay.
So amazing.
Uh, accomplishments andbackgrounds.
I love the fact that you listedthat you, you took a side hustle
to a business and now you are,you are recognized as one of the
top 100 educators.
So I know there's a journey thatyou went on before you were at
(02:26):
this place.
If you would high level, justwalk us through your, your
career journey and your careerpath.
Dr. Pardeep (02:32):
Yeah, happily.
So, you know, I started out as ateacher way back in the day,
and, um, from there moved oninto higher ed administration
and while I was earning mydoctorate, um, part of the
responsibilities, uh, we hadwere that we had to do pro bono
consulting projects withdifferent firms, different
companies.
And those pro bono projectsended up turning into, uh,
(02:55):
executive consulting andcoaching opportunities on the.
Um, and I kept, um, taking onand continuing as I pursued my
career in, in higher educationadministration.
So I was learning this, uh, onone side, I was leading.
Uh, colleges, small colleges andlike their academics and their
curriculum and their staff andfaculty, how to teach, what to
(03:16):
teach, what to cover adultlearning theory.
And then on the other side, Iwas getting to work with
executives and leaders to reallyhelp them hone their leadership
skills or communication skillsin a one on one environment.
So it was a really, uh, kind ofa unique opportunity to do both.
And, um, then in 2020, I decidedto leave higher ed and was like,
(03:38):
I think I'm ready to kind oflaunch off and do my own thing.
And then I founded CollarCollege and, um, it, it just
landed.
I think it was, it came at sucha pivotal moment in time because
that was.
When you know the covid crisisthat hit and leadership was
really struggling with.
How do we first of all goremote?
A lot of organizations didn'teven know what to do, how to do
(04:00):
it.
And then secondly, what are theconversations that need to be
had in order to ensure themorale and the Unity of our
staff that are now no longer inthe office, but are remote and
we're trying to stay connectedin this virtual space.
Sabine (04:15):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So we're, we're going to getinto a little bit more
conversation about the work thatyou do in terms of, of
leadership development today.
Um, but I also wanted to spendsome of this time talking about,
the opportunity for.
Women not only to just begin tostep into leadership
opportunities in theirbusinesses and their careers and
(04:37):
whatnot, but also really regainback a sense of identity when it
comes to who they are asleadership, who they are as
leaders, as well as the innatepower that they have just being
themselves without having tochange or shift or adapt or
assimilate to a particularenvironment.
(04:57):
And so we've been having thisconversation around, power.
And really I feel because ofwhat is coming ahead, that it's
important for us to start havingthese conversations as women and
I guess, demystifying any mythsthat we've, uh, held onto around
what it means to, to be apowerful person, as well as look
(05:18):
at some of the messages thathave made us abdicate.
Our right to be powerful, ourinnate, uh, capacity to, to step
in on that place.
So I'm curious, and I've beenasking guests, you know, uh,
oftentimes we use these termsinterchangeably.
So power authority influence.
(05:38):
Um, and the more that I've duginto this, the more that I'm
like, Oh no, these are threeseparate things.
It's almost like DEI.
Everyone just like bundles DEIinto one thing.
But there are three separate,uh, categories, if you will.
So I'm curious what, as I say,these words, power, authority,
and influence, what comes tomind and how do you personally
(05:59):
differentiate these three basedon your experiences?
So
Dr. Pardeep (06:06):
I definitely think there are three separate terms
that are interchangeably used,but they have very distinct
meanings.
When I think of leadership, Ithink of influence above
anything else.
I think the person who's able toinfluence others, influence a
(06:26):
team, influence decision making,that is a leader, whether they
have the title or not.
And I think power is somethingthat people utilize in the
context of the position.
So it's more of a politicalplay, right?
So what, what I've seen inorganizations is someone may
(06:48):
have the title.
And because of that, they areassumed to be in this
authoritative role, but reallythey lack the influence.
And when you don't haveinfluence, you really don't have
power, you know?
And, and so I think there'sthis, this understanding that
has to come into place of liketrue power isn't having a title
(07:08):
or, or, or being at the, youknow, top of the, the chain.
But it really is about yourability to connect with people
and build relationships and havethose conversations and the, and
the connection to the, thebehind the scenes and when I say
behind the scenes, I don't meanlike the office work.
I don't mean the project tasks.
(07:29):
I mean, behind the scenes of thehuman.
So when you're able to connectto that, you really have true
connection and you really haveat that point the ability to
leverage or build influence.
you know, and I think withoutthat you, you can be in whatever
position, but if nobody likesyou, if you're not connected to
anybody, you're going to bestanding alone.
(07:51):
It's going to be harder for youto pull or get everybody your
way.
And authority is, I think,credibility.
Authority is credibility.
When you have been able toorganize a team or to get a
collective to move in thedirection together in unity
(08:14):
towards a greater cause, agreater outcome, a greater goal,
then that's on your, you know,on your resume that that's
credibility.
Sabine (08:25):
I love the fact that you said authority is credibility
because I think I love thatperspective because I don't know
that that's how That's how mostpeople see it.
And basically that's not howit's modeled.
And that's not how that's notthe, the narrative, if you will.
So when we think aboutauthority, it's usually very,
you know, command and controlpower over.
(08:49):
Right.
And so I know a lot of womenjust, just our natural state.
We're more effective when weleverage power with versus power
over and so words like authorityfeel very quote unquote, as they
call it masculine or feel youknow that it's, it's not that we
don't want that we don't wantauthority but at the end of the
(09:10):
day.
All three of those components,power, authority, influence are
necessary in order to movethings forward.
Um, it's, it's the manner inwhich we demonstrate it.
And so I'm, I, I love that, thatperspective.
The other thing that I, I heardyou say with respect to
influence, it's really the, it'sreally the outcome.
(09:32):
Or the effect, if you will, ofbeing in your place of power, in
your place of influence.
Really, it's, it's, it's what wesee as the outward result of who
we're being.
Is that, is that accurate?
Oh,
Dr. Pardeep (09:48):
completely.
If you want to Just do a pulsecheck of like where you stand
with your team, then I would Iwould start with like creating a
fun project, even something aslike we're gonna, you know, do a
ice cream sundae or ice creamsocial or something and see
which of your team members showup.
Hmm.
And you can see right away kindof like how much influence you
(10:10):
really have.
Sabine (10:12):
Wow.
Wow.
That yeah, again, another, Ilove the way that you, you share
that example, and so I, I'm, Iwant to continue to have these
conversations because I want tobreak down that disconnect of
how we can feel powerful incertain environments and then
get into others.
And completely abdicate orcompletely relinquish that
(10:34):
power,
Dr. Pardeep (10:35):
I think that is such a, I almost want to say a
necessary movement.
Because when we're able to tapinto our inner power, our inner
strength and who we are as justwomen, naturally we're
nurturing, we're giving, we'rethoughtful, we're kind, we're
strategic, we're analytical,like we have some of these
(10:57):
elements already built into oursense of being.
Because of being a sister, beinga daughter, being a mother,
being an aunt, just in our homeperson, being a friend in our
personal roles, right?
We show up in this way.
And if we can take this same waythat we show up in our personal
roles and put ourselves in ourprofessional role, we have
(11:20):
greater leverage.
We have greater power.
You know, um, I, when I was, uh,When I do a lot of coaching and
consulting, like I've workedwith moms that have like left
the workforce and are after, youknow, decided to raise their
children and now are trying tore enter and now they're like, I
don't have any leadershipskills.
(11:40):
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
You've got more than probably.
That's what most people need,and it's just that space of like
owning that authority, thatcredibility rights.
And so I, I will usually tiewell, like you just said, have
you been able to get your kidsto bet on time?
Have you been able to guide themon how to be good human beings?
(12:01):
Have you been able to help themorganize and, and structure
their schedule and their routinefor sports and for activities
and for homework?
And I was like, and have youbeen able to take care of them
and feed them and make surethey're alive?
I was like, well, those alltranslate into actually like
really good skills that we needin professional in the
(12:22):
professional work world forleaders or as leaders, you know?
And so I think when you're ableto say, Hey, I already have this
in me.
Can I bring this to the table?
And how do I showcase thatwithout feeling like I have to
dim my light now?
Because The version ofleadership I'm seeing doesn't
match what I have.
Sabine (12:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
Uh, dim the light.
Cause that, that is definitelywhat I'm, I'm over, uh, for me
personally and for the brilliantwomen who are in my network and
who I come across day after dayafter day.
So you brought up a point aroundpersonal power and I just wanted
(13:02):
to ask a real quick questionabout that as it relates to you
being able to maintain yourpersonal power.
Like what, what do you do?
Like what is, what is your, yourgo to, uh, form of reminder of
this is who I am.
I am powerful no matter what theexternal, uh, environment looks
like.
Dr. Pardeep (13:23):
You know, I have a toolkit of self care, I would
say, or like self love practicesI utilize to ensure that my
mindset and my heart space arein the right place for me to
lead.
And I think to do that, it'sconstant, you know, there's
going to be setbacks.
That's just everyday life.
We're going to be knocked down.
(13:44):
Somebody's going to tell youyou're not smart enough.
You're not good enough.
You're not qualified enough.
You don't have the background.
You don't have what I need.
Somebody is always going to say,I've already been there, done
that.
I could do it better than you.
And, you know, and, and one ofthe things I've learned is.
Okay, great.
I'm not in competition withanybody.
I'm in competition with myyesterself, right?
So I just want to be better thanwho I was yesterday.
(14:06):
So if I showed up yesterday onmy a game, I got to be on a plus
today.
And yesterday I was on my a gameand I got knocked down by these
conversations, these, these, youknow, what we call micro
conversations that just kind ofmicro slides, they keep adding
up, they keep adding up.
And then I was like, okay, well,I got to wake up and get back on
a plus today.
(14:26):
Cause yesterday I was on aprobably finished the day at
like B minus, but I got to getback to, if I started at a, I
got to try to be at a plus tostart my day.
And I will do things like Imeditate.
So, you know, um, there'sdifferent meditation practices.
I like yoga nidra a lot.
So I do that.
I do other guided me, uh,meditation on a regular basis.
(14:46):
I do journaling.
Um, I don't necessarily do itevery morning, but I'm in tune
with myself enough to know, hey,I've gotta journal some stuff
today.
Mm-hmm.
I'll do journaling, um,sometimes if I really need a
boost.
I will do 100 gratitudes firstthing I wake up, and they are
not just gratitudes I'm gratefulfor the sunshine I'm grateful
for, you know, for this morningcoffee, they're in depth
(15:09):
gratitudes that go into like whyI'm grateful for this for the
sunshine or why I'm feelinggrateful for, you know, my
morning coffee.
I also have for a long time,I've been doing.
I used to call it like gratitudewalks.
So I'd partner with a friend andwe set up a time every day,
lunchtime or something.
And we'd get on the phone and wewould do gratitude walks.
(15:32):
Like we'd probably go for awalk.
I'm here and they're whereverthey are.
And we just share gratitudes andwe, and it would really kind of
help us amp up the energybecause we'd feel the momentum
from each other.
And that brought a lot of likegreatness.
Into who I am and the gratitudesweren't necessarily external.
They were about ourselves.
So there's there's a reason likeyou have to focus on like the
(15:54):
things that you're grateful for.
I'm grateful for being a smartand astute woman.
I'm grateful for being a greatleader.
I'm grateful for having a teamthat loves and respects me.
I'm grateful for beingvulnerable enough and confident
enough to expose myself to myneeds.
Thank you.
To my team members in momentswhen they need those
(16:15):
conversations the most right.
So I think owning that is thefirst step.
And when you can just kind ofsay, I'm grateful for being
human.
I'm grateful for showing up asme.
And I know that me is making adifference that makes a big
impact.
One of the things I learned whenI was in higher ed
administration was that you needto have a Team of women that can
(16:36):
support you that are in similarroles to you.
And when I mean similar roles, Imean, it could be, you know,
women that are married withfamilies, if that's where you're
at women that are, you know, athigh career levels, if that's
where you're at, or women thatare leading, you know,
transformational projects orwhatever it could be, but you've
got to find that network that'sat your level.
(16:57):
And the challenge is this, whenyou find that network, one of
you has to be strong,comfortable and confident enough
to be vulnerable, to break thatice, that surface level of like,
we're all at the same level.
I've got this work problem.
I've got this work problem toreally have those deep
conversations, to build thoserelationships that when time
(17:20):
push comes to shove, you canlean on each other.
Sabine (17:24):
So many, so many powerful nuggets here.
I'm writing ferociously overhere.
So on the, on the gratitude, Iabsolutely love that.
starting your day with gratitudeand not surface level gratitude,
but deeply within like, this iswho I am.
This is, these are the thingsthat I'm grateful for.
(17:44):
It really does shift yourperspective and it allows you
to.
start at that a plus, right?
Knowing that at some pointduring the day, you may get
knocked down a bit.
Um, and I love the fact thatyou, you know, you're the reset
every day, right?
So yes, we ended at B minus, butwe get a clean slate the next
day.
Um, not too.
(18:05):
Not too long ago.
And I'm sharing this because itties in.
And also for those of you whoare listening, um, I know my
audience is mostly type a right.
And so like every day has to bean a day, right?
Like we're not okay when the dayis not an a day, but, um, not
too long ago I had, I hadstarted the morning off like a
(18:26):
plus, right?
Like you couldn't tell meanything.
I was ready to conquer theworld.
And I was in that feeling.
And then I found myself maybefor about like 30 minutes.
Scrolling through, uh,navigating between LinkedIn and
Instagram, right?
And at one point, I was justlike, What are you looking for?
What are you, what, what, whatare you doing right now?
(18:47):
Like, first of all, you havework to do.
And secondly, what are youlooking for?
And I had to sit with thatquestion.
And in that moment, I didn'tknow what I was looking for, but
I just knew I couldn't, not thatI couldn't stop, but I just
knew, like, there was this tugin me to, like, keep scrolling
mindlessly.
And then it wasn't until thenext day when I was doing My
(19:07):
Gratitude, um, that it dawned onme, it hit me, it was just like,
I started at A and it feltgreat, and it felt amazing.
But something within me didn'tbelieve that it was okay.
to have an A plus day.
And so I was looking forevidence that something, there
was a flaw somewhere orsomething I wasn't doing enough
(19:29):
or this person was better thanme or data.
And in the moment when I wasdoing it, of course, no one's
thinking that right.
But it wasn't until I sat downwith myself and said, okay,
well, what was I looking foryesterday?
And I got a little bit ofinsight into, into my mind that
still needs healing as much workas I've done that says.
Even when you're having that aplus, even when you're feeling
(19:51):
powerful and you're feelingwithin yourself, there might be
still messages or there mightstill be things that bring you
down.
So, you know, it's not alwaysabout looking at out externally
of what's happening around you.
But it's also doing that gutcheck and that, you know,
silencing the inner critic, as Iused to like to call it.
Um, and recognizing the ways inwhich even in our own day and
(20:14):
our daily practices and how wediminish our own light.
Um, and so I just wanted toshare that because you, you
brought that up and thattriggered it for me.
And then the last thing withregards to networking with
people on your level, I.
think that that is an amazingtidbit.
So for those of you who arelistening, I hope I hope you
took that.
(20:34):
It's so important to besurrounded by individuals who
are at your level.
And then the other thing that Iwould say to that, and this is a
a revelation that I've had isthat oftentimes we as women,
especially when there's stillsome, uh, denial of how powerful
we are, we will downplay.
(20:55):
What our level is and putourselves in positions and
around surround ourselves andnetworks with people who we have
to then carry or who we have toconstantly pull up.
Um, and so I just want for us tobe very mindful that, you know,
as we're thinking about who's onmy level that we're doing it
from a lens of where we actuallyare and not where, you know,
(21:16):
we've told ourselves we are orsociety has told us we are.
Dr. Pardeep (21:21):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you on that.
I also think like, so I want toaddress both of your points
there.
Um, so, you know, I'll go, I'llgo to the Instagram, LinkedIn,
social media aspect first.
So one of the things is verytrue is that our mind
subconsciously, if we don'tthink we're a plus, it's going
to bring us down.
(21:41):
Our actions are going to take usto whatever we think we are.
If we think we're B minus,they're going to keep us there.
Right.
And it's.
Whatever we do is going to bringus there, but we have to
intentionally move to a plusover and over and over every
moment, right?
So unless you're in flow zone,which you're like, kind of just
like you're in the flow, you'rein the zone.
You're like, you have no senseof time.
(22:02):
You're just so passionate aboutwhat you're doing, but you are
doing something for some.
out for some outcome, not justscrolling.
The question I always say is whyI asked myself, not what am I
doing this for?
What am I looking for?
I always say why, because why isa very personal question.
And I'll say, uh, why are youscrolling pretty like what's
(22:24):
going on with you?
So I'll ask a very personalquestion to myself.
And that question, because I'min the safety of my own self, I
should be able to answerhonestly.
And when once you have theanswer, I can then own it and I
can say, okay, yeah, I don'tfeel like a plus today.
I feel like maybe I'm a B minusor, you know, um, I feel
(22:46):
insecure, whatever the feelingcould be.
And once you own that feeling,oddly enough, once you own it,
like it shifts your behavior,you're no longer like trying to
just, you know, and I, so I, sothat's the other thing is just
like asking those questions thatget to your core that just.
Cut deep down inside one of thethings with color college we do.
(23:07):
And when I first introduced the,the, our platform to the board,
to my board, one of my boardmembers reached out afterwards.
And she said to me, she said,you're you're like, we do a lot
of reflective analysis.
So they do a lot of reflection.
We ask deep questions till Ikind of get to the core.
And she had said, she was like,gosh, those questions are like,
like, so, um, What was the word?
(23:30):
So intricate.
She's like, I don't know if Iwould feel so I would feel
comfortable even sharing that.
And I said, exactly.
That's why we asked them becausewe want leaders that can get to
this place of answering thosequestions and having those
conversations.
And then, um, to the secondpoint, so there's two points to
that.
One is not only downplaying,like, if you, like, wherever you
(23:54):
are, yes, meet someone at thatlevel or above.
Because the thing when meetingsomeone above your level is
they've been at your level.
They have some wisdom, someinsight, some guidance they can
give to you.
Um, like in my, my lastposition, I was a provost, I was
a vice president of academicaffairs.
(24:15):
And so I chose to build anetwork with other provosts who
were in the same positions asme, but also with female
presidents of colleges.
Because I could then learn fromthem, right?
So one of the things is you alsowant to say, can you, you don't
want to, I'm not necessarilytrying to land in that position.
If you are, that's great too,but they've been where you're
(24:38):
at.
So they have wisdom to say, Hey,you know what?
Let that one slide.
You know what?
Just do a self check on that.
That's not worth a conversation.
That's not worth, you know, asetback for you.
Or they might say, you know,like they can give you a
different insight than someoneat your own level can, but it is
important to have thoseconversations.
(24:59):
And one of the things I gotreally good at really fast was
breaking that ice and gettinginto a vulnerable space.
And I, I think I was good atthat because I'd done that with
my executive coaching.
Like I had to really build abuild rapport within like the
first, like five seconds, youknow, make sure they'd want to
open up to me.
So, but by doing that, it showsyour vulnerability, your
willingness to learn and getcoached as well as your openness
(25:22):
to hear them and hear theirstory.
Yeah.
Sabine (25:25):
Yeah.
Totally agree.
And I love that you brought inthe, you know, don't be afraid
to reach out and connect andbuild relationships with people
who are above you.
Cause you know, we'll, we'll getimposter syndrome quick.
Like, Oh, I'm not where she isor, Oh, I'm not.
And then you look at our malecounterparts and they're like,
Oh.
If he could do it, I can do it.
Like, and they're so willing tobuild relationships with people
(25:48):
who, you know, are quote,unquote above their level.
And so I love that you broughtthat in.
So, uh, so many nuggets here.
I hope you are all taking notesunless you're driving a course.
Uh, you can always go back andlisten to it.
Um, but one, one last questionthat I have for you, and then
we'll go into the blitz sectionhere, you know, in terms of
societal impact, what are yourthoughts in terms of what women
(26:11):
in leadership roles can do toinspire and empower the next
generation.
Um, so that, you know, while wemay have had to, to learn things
the hard way, uh, what can webegin to impart so that the next
generation, the Gen Z's, thealphas and whoever comes else
afterwards, that they have aclearer path and a less, um,
(26:33):
strenuous, uh, journey.
I think we can
Dr. Pardeep (26:37):
definitely impart the.
The responsibility to show up asa human.
And when, when I say that, whatI mean is the outcomes and the
goals and you know, thestrategic plans and all that for
the job for the work for thecompany are always going to be
there.
But we also need this element ofus being able to show up as
(27:00):
human to support one another tosupport the, the, you know, the
new workforce as they're comingin and as they're stepping into
those shoes.
Thank you.
So that they have anunderstanding, you know, um,
burnout is real.
And it's, it's as much as it'sreal in the older generations.
It's actually been even morereal for the younger generation.
(27:22):
That's just entered theworkforce.
They don't have 15, 20 yearsunder their belt.
They maybe have four or five or,you know, eight at best, maybe,
you know, and I think if we cansay, okay, first of all.
Honor that to say it's okay tofeel this way.
It's okay for you to go throughthis.
What do you need?
(27:42):
And second to that is if we canhave leaders when we see
someone's talent.
Let's ask those questions.
What are your goals in fiveyears?
Where do you see yourself?
Do you want to get promoted?
Do you want to be in a differentposition?
And I think that is reallytelling.
Like sometimes I've met peopleI've, I've worked with, with
(28:04):
people I should say that I thinkare very talented, that I would
love to push and really motivateand encourage and kind of mentor
to the next level, but they'renot at that place in their life.
Because maybe they have otherobligations or other desires.
Maybe they have a side hustle,something else they're
passionate about that they wantto put more energy towards.
So as much as I think they'd begreat in this company to step
(28:26):
into a leadership role, they'rereally like, I like where I'm at
because I really want to do, Ireally want in five years from
now, turn my passion into my, mybusiness, you know?
So I think it's reallyunderstanding where individuals
are coming from to, to say,okay, where, where, what, who do
you want to be?
Where are you trying to go to?
And then you have, you will getpeople also that are just like,
(28:49):
I really don't know.
I'm here right now.
And I don't know where I'mgoing.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
And I just share, you know, ifsomebody asks my story, I'll
share it openly.
And I think the more we can showup from this place of not being
afraid to share who we've been.
And how we've gotten to where weare, especially sharing what
(29:11):
doesn't get shared often, butwhat needs to get shared are
those moments when we were cut,when we were knocked down, when
we had to find our innerresourcefulness, our inner
strength.
To say, Hey, I am good enough.
Hey, I'm going to get up and tryagain.
And I think those are thestories.
If we share more of those withpeople and we have those
(29:33):
conversations, it helps peoplefeel more human too, in the way
they relate to us and the waythey show up in their job and
the way they understand who theyare and what they're going
through and in their way ofrespecting you and being able to
rely on your, just to look up toyou to say, okay, like, Hey, I,
I'm not sure about this, but Ineed some help.
You know, um, you know, myyounger.
(29:53):
Years, I remember one time Iwalked into an office and I
don't know what the situationwas and I got really I, um, I
teared up in front of my bossand I remember them back then my
boyfriend back then when I toldhim about it, he said, you
shouldn't have done that.
You shouldn't have shown anyemotions to your boss.
Right.
And so ever since then, you'relike, okay, you can't like as a
(30:14):
female, you can't do thatbecause it.
Makes you look weak orvulnerable or whatever it is
right and oddly enough sincethen that was a lot that was 20
years ago, but since then Iwould say I've had so many
people like so many of my staffmembers that have come into my
office, but I've given them thespace to be vulnerable.
(30:34):
And, you know, and in some casesI've cried with them, you know,
and it doesn't make me weak andit doesn't make me a soft leader
and it didn't change myrelationship with them in any
kind of way where they would nolonger see me, you know, in my
role.
But it actually made itstronger, strengthened it
because they had greater trustin me all of a sudden.
Yeah, right.
(30:55):
It builds that bond of like,Hey, this person sees me as a
human and I can be myself,right?
And that also then went to thisplace of like, when I saw
somebody really struggling, Iwas able to say, I was able to
say, Hey, I think you need totake a week off.
Like, Hey, I think you need totake some time off or, or give
them recommendations of like,Hey, try this or try this or do
(31:17):
this.
Like I was just saying yoga ormeditation or gratitude.
Right.
And you can't see those things.
You can't see people need thosethings until we're able to show
up as humans.
Yeah.
Sabine (31:28):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
I could listen to you for hours.
Uh, um, but I want to berespectful of your time here.
And so, um, as we move into thisblip session, I named a couple
of things here.
Have you shared a couple ofthings here, but I'm curious if
you If you could go back to ayounger version of yourself and
(31:49):
give her a piece of adviceknowing what you know now and
the experiences that you've had,people that you've coached and
mentored, uh, what might you sayto her?
Uh, you know,
Dr. Pardeep (32:01):
some of the stuff I've already said that you are
strong enough, you are smartenough, you are capable, you can
do this.
Um, I would I think I would goback and just say, don't be
afraid to be yourself, you know,your, your, your creativity,
(32:21):
your imagination, your abilityto deliver is going to surpass
all expectations when you canstep into who you are and just
own it.
And I think there's some elementof being quirky right like, you
know, be, you know, dare to bedifferent.
There's that's that's actually areally big strength and I think
(32:42):
a lot of people shy away fromfrom stepping into that they
feel like they have to fit in,you know, and and Brene Brown
talks about this, you know,fitting in is the complete
opposite of belonging.
If you want to if you want tofeel like you belong, don't fit
in.
Right.
I would say
Sabine (33:03):
that.
I love that.
Um, and then looking ahead, asyou know, 40 5060 however many
years from now as you're lookingback.
Um, over your life and theimpact that you've made and the,
the lives that you've been ableto change and just the things
that you've been able to, to, todo for yourself, you know, what
do you want that narrative tobe?
(33:24):
What do you want, what do youwant the, the conversation in
your own head to be about whatyou've accomplished and the
legacy that you're leaving?
Dr. Pardeep (33:35):
That's a very good question.
If I'm looking back and youknow, in my rocking chair in my
90s, I'm sharing my story withmy grandkids or something, I
would really want to be able tosay that I lived from my heart
and I led myself first.
In the beauty of leading myself,I was able to add beauty to the
(33:58):
world.
Whether that was in the contextof Klar College, whether that
was in the context of thedifferent roles I had previous
to, to my job now, or whetherthat's in the context of
whatever might come next for me.
But I really think like if wewanna make a difference in the
world, we have to be able tofirst.
Make a difference withourselves.
So I, when I looking back, Iwant to always, I always say, am
I doing this from my heart spaceor am I doing this from my head
(34:20):
space?
You know, a lot of the greatresignation circling back to
that was, was a movement fromthe heart space.
You know, I think all of asudden was so much going on that
it was really kind of like ouracknowledge them at some level.
(34:41):
And, you know, When you gothrough something like that, you
know, it puts you in a positionof like, well, what's next
because you're vulnerable,you're beat down, you're worn
out, you're exhausted, you'requestioning your own rationale,
right?
And you're looking at yourfinances, you're looking at your
family, you're looking at your,you know, everything else lines
(35:03):
up and it becomes real.
So the one thing that is theeasiest to do Is to turn away
from that heart space and goback into head space.
And I think from heart space isreally where true beauty, true
greatness comes.
And if we can say, I havesomething great to offer, and
(35:23):
I'm going to figure out how tooffer it to the world from this
place where I'm at right now,without having to sell my soul
and go back into this work worldwhere I was not happy.
I was not where I belong.
It didn't fit me.
I was inauthentic.
I couldn't be myself, but I hadto be this other person for this
role.
I think, um, that's where youcan leverage your power.
(35:44):
Your power comes when we're ableto say, am I doing this from my
heart or am I doing it from myhead?
And then if you're doing it fromyour head, I would say.
I don't know if that's going tobe your legacy, but from your
heart, that'll probably becomeyour story.
Sabine (35:59):
Agreed.
That is beautiful.
And then the last question foryou is, um, you know, have there
been any books at being aneducator?
I can imagine you, you readquite often, uh, is there a book
or any books that have beenpivotal for you in your growth,
in your development?
I've either personally orprofessionally.
Dr. Pardeep (36:19):
You know, uh, about, uh, almost 10 years ago
or so, I was a really big, I'dread, um, Sheryl Sandberg's Lean
In, and I was, you know, prettymuch telling everyone to read
it, because that book, um, I'mnot sure, you know, but what it
did for me was it I went back Iwas a chief academic officer at
(36:41):
a small private college backthen and I went back to the
drawing board with the presidentof the college and I said, I
want to work half the time and Iwant you to pay me three times
as much, and I will keep all ofyour campuses open all of your
programs accredited, and I willlead all of the faculty and
handle everything still.
And because I'd been there inthis, this present new, my, my
(37:04):
work ethic and my, what I coulddeliver on, he agreed to it.
And had I not read that book, Imight not have had the courage
to say, I want to work half,half the time.
And I want you to pay me threetimes as much, you know, because
I think a lot of the challengesthat we are too afraid to ask as
(37:26):
women, we think we're not worthit.
So here's what happens.
The thought crosses our mind,like, I wish I could get a
higher salary or I wish I couldmove into a different position.
But then, then the doubt alsocomes in that the feeling of
like, I'm not worth it.
Oh, no, there's somebody morequalified.
(37:47):
Oh, no, they got to have thatposition for somebody else.
And because of that, we don'ttake that chance of asking all
that could happen is somebodycould say no.
And then you can redirect andsay, okay, well, is this
something I really want?
If so, how do I go about makingit happen?
Yeah.
Maybe it's not at that office.
It's not at that company.
(38:07):
Maybe it's somewhere else, butit opens that door for you to
start moving in that directionversus just.
Neglecting yourself.
Sabine (38:14):
Agreed, agreed.
Um, and so as we wrap up here,in terms of connecting with you,
because I'm sure the audiencehas, is like, okay, I need, I
need her in my life somewhere.
Um, where can people connectwith you?
Where do you hang out on social?
Dr. Pardeep (38:32):
LinkedIn is a good spot.
I'm on LinkedIn.
They can find me there.
Sabine (38:35):
Okay, awesome.
So with that, Dr.
Pardee, thank you so much for,for joining.
Thank you for yourvulnerability.
Thank you for your honesty andsharing and having this really,
uh, rich conversation.
Um, not, and not superficial aswe talked about before around
what it means to just be.
Who you are and own your powerand own your, your leadership
(38:58):
and own all of the things that,that are innate to us as human
beings.
So I really appreciate thecandor.
I really appreciate yourtransparency and vulnerability.
Thank you
Dr. Pardeep (39:07):
so much.
It was a pleasure to be here.
Sabine (39:09):
Thank you.
Awesome.
So with that, we will be backnext week chatting with another
female powerhouse until thenhave a great rest of the week
and we'll talk soon.
Take care.
Hope you enjoyed this week'sepisode.
If you found today'sconversation helpful, or got a
piece of insight that you planto implement in your life, I'd
(39:30):
love to hear from you.
Connect with me on LinkedIn atSabine Gideon and send me a
message, or feel free to leave areview on either Apple or
Spotify.
I also invite you to share thisepisode with anyone in your
network, another powerhouse,possibly who you think might
benefit from today'sconversation.
Lastly, as always, any links,any resources, or any upcoming
(39:51):
training is included in the shownotes.
So be sure to check that beforeyou leave today until we chat
again, have a blessed andpowerful week.
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Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com