August 14, 2024 • 49 mins
What if the toughest challenges you face are the key to your leadership growth? Adversity has a unique way of shaping the strongest leaders, proving that the hardest times often lead to the most remarkable victories.
In this episode of the Leading with Power & Purpose Podcast, Sabine sits down with Erin Sumner, who shares her transformative journey through the Meta layoffs of November 2022. Balancing the whirlwind of raising Irish twins with leading HR at the innovative startup Delete Me, Erin's story highlights the power of resilience and the critical role of a supportive network and role models in building leadership confidence.
Listen in to learn how combining self-confidence with empathy can significantly boost your leadership effectiveness and foster stronger connections with your team. You will also learn about the importance of creating and maintaining supportive networks for personal and professional growth.
Key Takeaways:
- How resilience through tough times can transform you into a stronger, more effective leader
- How having a diverse group of mentors can aid in your professional development and help you navigate complex leadership challenges.
- The benefits of integrating practices like meditation, journaling, and exercise into your daily routine to enhance overall leadership effectiveness.
- The significance of women creating opportunities for fellow women to drive collective success and leadership advancement.
What You Will Learn in This Episode:
- [01:44] A transformative experience during the Meta layoffs of November 2022 and its impact on resilience.
- [02:38] The journey to Meta, early career challenges, managing a global team during COVID, and the impact of the layoffs.
- [13:46] How power, authority, and influence are manifested in leadership roles.
- [18:58] The importance of building a supportive network and having role models who reflect positive beliefs and confidence.
- [26:09] The benefits of daily meditation and journaling practices for maintaining focus and mental grounding.
- [28:44] The role of mentorship in professional growth and the value of having multiple mentors with diverse perspectives.
- [35:37] Strategies for women to create opportunities for each other and foster support rather than competition.
- [38:30] The significance of creating opportunities and recognizing others, even if outcomes are uncertain.
Connect with Erin:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinssumner/
- Website: https://joindeleteme.com/
- DeleteMe Discount - ERINFIFTY to receive 50% off 12 months of DeleteMe
Books Recommendations:
- Originals: How Non-Conformists Move the World
- The Last Lecture by Randy Pausch
*************
HOST INFO:
Sabine Gedeon is a dynamic force in the world of leadership and personal development. As the Founder of Transformed Leadership Institute and CEO of Gedeon Enterprises, Sabine leverages nearly 20 years of experience to guide clients in both startups and Fortune 500 companies. Her unique approach combines human-centered principles with tech-enabled solutions, delivering customized programs for leaders at all levels to tackle crucial leadership and talent development challenges.
*************
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT:
Download Free Resources - https://sabinegedeon/gifts
Get Coaching Support: https://meetwithsabine.as.me/Discovery
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Are you tired of playing smalland ready to step confidently
into your greatness and shareyour unique brilliance with the
world?
Well, you're in the right place.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI've dedicated nearly two
decades empowering individualsand leaders as they confidently
navigate the twists and turns oflife and career transitions.
If you're seeking direction,connection, or just a little
(00:22):
push to play bigger, considerthis podcast, your VIP path to a
community that genuinelyunderstands your journey.
Join me every week for candidconversations and practical
guidance designed to help younavigate the challenges of life
and business, foster a growthmindset, and cultivate
meaningful connections.
It's time to embrace yourinherent power, define your
(00:44):
unique purpose, and prosper inevery aspect of your life.
Let's get started.
Sabine (00:55):
Hello and welcome to another episode.
I'm your host, Sabine Gideon.
Thank you so much for joiningthis week.
And of course we have anotheramazing female powerhouse that
we're going to have theconversation with around the
relationship with power.
And so today's guest is AaronSumner.
Aaron is a mother of Irish twinsjuggling the beautiful chaos of
(01:18):
parenthood while spearheadingthe HR efforts at a dynamic
startup named delete me.
Her journey took an unexpectedturn when she found herself at
the heart of a transformativeexperience, a part of the
initial wave of layoffs at Mettain November of 2022.
This pivotal moment shaped herresilience and reinforced her
commitment to championingindividuals rights in the
(01:39):
digital realm with that, welcometo the show, Aaron.
Erin (01:44):
Thanks Sabine.
Really excited to be here.
Thank you for having me on theshow, as you mentioned, seen a
lot of growth over the lastyear.
So sitting here about a year, alittle over a year after the
initial shock of being a part ofmy first layoff ever, having
learned a lot and.
(02:04):
Got an opportunity to lean onthe shoulders of some incredible
women that helped me get towhere I am.
So I'm really excited to be heretoday.
Thank you for having
Sabine (02:13):
me.
Absolutely.
I'm excited to, to hear aboutthis transformative experience,
but before we get into that, youknow, obviously, you know,
working at, at Metta is huge.
Uh, but I, I know that that wasa journey that, that took you
there.
So if you could share with ussome of Key career catalysts or
milestones that you experiencedthat led you up until that
(02:35):
layoff in November, 2022.
Erin (02:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, the, the cliche of noone's career path is linear.
You hear it and you never thinkit's true.
And then you experience it andyou're like, Oh, they actually
do know something.
Um, I was incredibly fortunate.
I graduated from North CarolinaState University.
(02:58):
Go Wolfpack! I won't say whatyear, um, but I knew very early
on that working with people wasmy passion and it, what gave
it's what gave me energy.
So human resources was natural.
I took accounting.
It did not go well.
Math is not for me.
We actually have a joke on myteam that Aaron math gives you
(03:19):
two kids in 13 months.
So don't do it.
But so I got the chance to havea couple internships.
throughout my college careerthat were specifically within
the HR realm and gave me a tasteof a lot of different things.
And the first catalyst was I wasgiven the opportunity to fly out
(03:41):
and live in San Diego as a 21year old and help run their
entire internship program, um,which was about 500 CS.
Um, hardware engineers, CSmeaning computer science,
apologies.
So software, hardware engineers,business, human resources, um,
all gathered in San Diego.
Didn't even know that was a job,right?
(04:02):
So when you're asked when you'relittle, what do you want to be
when you grow up?
Being a campus recruiter wasn'teven an option that existed in
my head.
Um, got the opportunity to dothat into my senior year.
graduated, worked with themseveral times, and that's when
Facebook called the first time.
So I was engaged to my nowhusband, uh, but we were engaged
(04:25):
at the time, got the call fromFacebook for the opportunity.
We had to move across thecountry, um, and my husband was
orig is originally fromMichigan, so we got married.
Didn't tell our family until wegot back from the honeymoon,
packed up our house two weekslater, um, and shipped out to
San Francisco to live for a fewyears.
(04:48):
Facebook.
Cause it was Facebook and willalways be Facebook to me.
The first time it was drinkingfrom a fire hose at a tempo,
which I'd never reallyexperienced before.
And that I like it very much tothe startup style.
Um, and I think a lot of peoplefrom that time, which was.
Mid 2010s, um, would say thesame thing.
(05:12):
You're creating processes,you're building, you're learning
as you go.
Worked with the smartest people.
Um, I'll never forget finishingthe interview and getting on the
plane to come back home and justthinking my brain hurts, and it
was the first time that my brainhad ever.
actually hurt from thinkingthrough things.
And that was my, I wanted, Iwant to do more of this, right?
(05:36):
Um, fast forward a few years,loved Facebook, was amazing, but
we decided to grow our family.
And as anyone who has been inthe Bay Area, can attest to
sitting in traffic, cost ofliving, um, just unsustainable
and not really what I wanted formy family.
So we moved back home toCharlotte, North Carolina, which
(05:58):
is where I'm originally from.
I was given the opportunity Tolead up a campus recruitment
program and a couple of othercompanies at that point in time,
um, in addition to having mydaughter 12 months after that.
Um, but so during that time thatI was leading these couple of
other kind of new grad internprograms, COVID hit and My
(06:23):
husband had started his owncompany six months prior to
that, meaning that the incomewas mine, the benefits were
mine, and there was a globalpandemic happening.
He was not in the house, um,because his job was, is to build
patios and landscapes, so he wasworking outside.
I was managing a global team atthis time.
It was not.
It was not easy to say the leastand I would say that that is
(06:46):
the, that's where I learned my,my leadership skills that I
truly I am most proud of.
It's my empathy.
It was very, very challengingfor me.
I did not feel as though I hadthe support.
Um, there were a couple ofthings said throughout the
(07:07):
organization, a couple ofdifferent organizations that I
was working with from people whowere just quit your job and
become a stay at home mom.
Like that's what you should do.
Or.
If it's this hard, like youshould, you should have chosen
not to have kids.
And it's like, okay, like noneof that's helpful.
Right?
Like none of that is actuallyhelping.
And it was primarily from men,but there were women with the
(07:29):
same and it.
It actually spurred something inme and I, I read or heard it and
someone will correct me on whosaid this, but I have it as a
sticky note on my monitor hereand it says, will you be proud
of your silence.
And so that is something that inmy head I'm consistently going
(07:50):
back to whether it be myleadership, my company, whatever
it is, it's Hey, can you look atyourself and be proud of the
fact that you stayed silentduring this.
Um, and as women, right.
It's easy to stay silent.
Um, it's, it's encouragedoftentimes to stay silent.
And so That was pivotal for me.
Um, and as you can see, right,it's not always linear.
(08:13):
It's not always, hey, things aregoing exactly as I want.
And that's what I learned.
I've learned the most from thehardest times, which sucks,
right?
Like you have to go through thisshit to get through the other
side.
Um, so coming out of COVID.
And, and that experience, um,one of my previous managers
reached out from Facebook, youknow, we're building this team,
(08:35):
we're scaling, you can workremote, right?
Like, would love to have youback, jumped at the opportunity
and we scaled the team fromseven people to 63 in a man, in
a time frame of about sixmonths.
Um, and then we spent aboutseven to eight months in limbo
as a, as a company.
Um, we shut down kind of all thehiring.
(08:58):
didn't do a lot, um, found waysto kind of keep ourselves busy
through the turmoil of what wasgoing on.
And leaned on one another.
So November 9th, 2022, there hadbeen a couple of leaks to the
press, um, right.
Of, Oh, Facebook's going to doMetta's going to do layoffs in
(09:19):
this state or that day, andthey'd all been untrue up until
that point in time.
Um, but I, I think theWashington post leaked it.
And for some reason we all werelike.
If they're reporting it, it'smore than likely true.
And so it, the, the emails weresent out around 6 a.
(09:41):
m.
whatever time zone you were in.
And so there were a few of uswho were on the East Coast and
we knew we were, you know, very,very high performers.
And so 555, you know, wake upand you get the email.
We've made the tough decision.
And immediately there was agroup of about Six women.
(10:03):
Um, we still to this day havethis same group.
We kept in touch.
It's what are you thankful fortoday?
And it can't be cliche, right?
It can't be, oh, I'm thankfulfor you.
I'm thankful for my kids.
Like, what are you?
And some days it was, you knowwhat?
I'm really thankful that I got aworkout in today, right?
That was the win for the day,but it taught me that.
(10:27):
You're always going to be anumber to some standpoint,
right?
It is what it is.
But, and I, I'm, I'm a personwho gives all and whatever I do,
but the relationships that youbuild out of stuff like that,
and I call them somewhattraumatic experiences because
they are traumatic, right?
I've got an entire family thatdepends on me for a lot of
different things.
(10:48):
Um, it was a catalyst that mademe angry.
Honestly, but it was definitelya catalyst that made me evaluate
in my next role what wasimportant.
Um, and so when Delete Mereached out, it was the
opportunity to build something.
(11:09):
But more than that, the founderThe reasoning behind the company
is it's the right thing to do.
People deserve their personalinformation, right?
So, so one of the things thatsomeone said, and this is kind
of where I'll leave it is Whenyou have a bad day, remember
you're fighting for the goodguys.
Um, and that one that, that Iactually read it on my
(11:31):
whiteboard behind me.
And it's something I look atevery day.
Sabine (11:35):
That's awesome.
Wow.
What a, what a journey.
And, and, you know, certainly itsounds like you are, uh, you
went from one environment to thecomplete opposite.
And I almost wonder if, youknow, oftentimes we don't see it
until hindsight, right.
That a lot of the earlierexperiences were really just
(11:55):
training or setting us up orputting us in that mindset that
we needed to be for that nextopportunity.
And so today at delete me, tellus a little bit about, you know,
what your role is, how you'remaking an impact, um, as, as a
senior leader there.
Erin (12:13):
I have the best job.
I get to lead up all of thepeople and culture at Delete Me.
So I, we, as a company, havegrown incredibly.
And what I help do is reallyhelp foster the talent
management, the culture andengagement of our employees and
set things in place.
So.
One of the things I'm most proudof, we have a WIP.
(12:34):
It's called Women in PrivacyGroup.
So we get together once a month.
We've done a couple book clubs.
We did terrarium building lastweek, but we also support one
another.
Um, we've gone through somepromotions recently and seeing
the women in there just kind ofshout one another up and, and
really have the chance to buildone another up with something we
(12:54):
didn't have before, which I lovebeing a part of.
Sabine (12:59):
Thinking about, you know, this series with regards
to supporting women and, andhelping us to redefine, uh, what
it is to be powerful, redefinewhat it means to be a leader,
what it means to be impactfuland influential.
Um, I'm, I'm curious because Iknow you have some thoughts, um,
(13:19):
as you think about, ourrelationship with power.
I've been asking guests to, youknow, help me dissect from their
point of view, how theyinterpret or define power.
Authority and influence and howthat shows up in their life
today or what their earlierexperiences were with each.
So I'm curious for you, youknow, how would you define those
(13:42):
three and how do they show upfor
Erin (13:45):
you?
I love these power, authority,and influence, which huge three
words, um, have such animplication on so many things.
Power.
I equate very much toconfidence.
So I, I have jokingly say thisand Sabine, you might need to
cut this, but sometimes I'mlike, you need the confidence of
a mediocre white man when hegoes in and ask for a raise.
(14:07):
Right?
Like if everyone could havethat, we'd all be way better
off, but it's, it's knowing it'shaving confidence in who you
are, gives you power.
One of the pieces of feedbackthat I am most proud of that I
receive, and I love sports, so Ido lean into sports analogies,
(14:27):
but I punch above my weightclass, meaning I very much
respect the position you're in,but I also respect the knowledge
and the information that I have,and I will push back where it's
needed.
And my CEO and I have a verygood relationship where we push
and pull each other a lot.
I have that with my entireexecutive team.
(14:49):
I force that with my entireteam, right?
It's, hey, I don't expect you toagree with everything.
If we are, then like, I have notdone a good job of hiring.
Diversity on my team right likethat's not a win for me.
I need you to push back.
And so that's what I think powerrelates to authority so I'm
(15:09):
going to, I'm going to pull outa quote here.
It's a Game of Thrones referenceso there's a point.
Which King, not King, it wasKing Joffrey at the time, but he
makes the exclamation that I amking and his grandfather Tywin
Lannister then says, it's notgoing to be a direct quote, but
something to the effect ofanyone who is truly a king does
(15:33):
not need to proclaim it.
That's what I believe authorityis right.
It is having people.
understand that you don't haveto stand up and say something,
but they know by your, yourcharacter and their relationship
that you're making the decisionsin the way that align with
what's best for the company forwhatever decision that you're
(15:56):
making.
And that's where the authoritycomes, comes from.
One of the mistakes I made earlyin my career was just thinking
being good at your job, right?
Like that gives you authorityand that's, that's not it.
It takes time.
And we, we go from being thesmartest, right?
Like, okay, yes, overachieversand, you know, elementary,
(16:18):
middle, high school, you tocollege related job.
And you're used to always beingthe best.
You're not the best.
You shouldn't be the best in thenext room.
So the, the.
The humbleness of that took mesome years to learn.
Um, but it's, it was, I have amentor, um, and he works with me
(16:38):
a lot.
And he came into my life about10 years ago, so a little,
little less than a decade.
And he says to me all the time,he's like, the authority is,
it's not something that youclaim.
It's just something thathappens.
Um, so that's, that's how I viewauthority.
And then influence is just, ittakes time.
(17:01):
It's I, we, we're going overrewards and recognition, right,
for our entire company.
And we've, we've talked aboutthis in a couple of other
women's groups that I have, butit's.
If it's not a natural, organicthing for you to praise someone,
especially in the position ofleadership, why would you expect
(17:21):
anyone on your team to do so?
And you can point to any study,any research, right?
Like, those natural littlethings, those mean the most to
people, right?
It's, hey, I know your dog diedlast week, like let me send you
a bouquet of flowers orchocolates or whatever it is,
and it's really just, and again,it just, it takes the time and
(17:43):
the care to show more, and thatyou do know what you're doing
and that your perspective mightbe different, but you're still
working towards the commontheme.
Sabine (17:53):
Um, one of the things that I appreciated and when you
started off with power isrelating it to confidence,
right?
And that's another one where,you know, we all want to be
confident, but everyone hastheir definition of what
confidence is, what it lookslike.
Uh, is it a feeling, is it aknowing, is it all these.
(18:15):
And even as you were definingpower and you were defining the,
the, the, it's relationship toconfidence.
It was very clear to me that,that, that you were confident in
your power, that you areconfident in knowing who you
are, what you bring to thetable.
And we know, you know, we knowthe truth that not everyone has
that, or not everyone is able totap into that.
(18:37):
So I'm curious if you can thinkback to, you know, earlier
experiences or just, you know,life in general.
What has helped you, what hasspecifically supported you in
anchoring in your own power andin your own confidence and being
able to, you know, emanate thatso effortlessly.
Erin (18:57):
That's a very, very kind compliment.
Thank you.
Um, I, I've, again, I, I've beenincredibly lucky.
I, I grew up in my mom, um, whois a executive.
President, vice president, bankof America has been there for 37
years.
(19:18):
She, she doesn't take shit fromanyone.
Right.
And it's never been one of thosethings where it is because I'm a
woman.
It's just that I know what I'mtalking about.
Um, and again, there was a partof me who took that when I was
like 13 and I was like, I'm theexact same, I know it all.
No one talked to me.
So when my daughter hits thatage, um, I'm going to be hiding
(19:40):
in a cave just so everyone'saware, uh, cause I'm expecting
it to come back.
Um, but I was really lucky tohave her as kind of a guide
post.
And then I was really fortunatein that the people that I've
surrounded myself with, andagain, there will be people who
(20:01):
will come and go in your livesand are there for moments and
chapters and not the wholebooks, but I, I focus on people
who bring me good energy andhelp uplift me.
I have this saying, I hateplaying the suffering Olympics,
right?
Um, I'm not in it to see how badpeople's lives are, right?
(20:23):
I went through COVID, it sucked,it was terrible, we don't need
to do that.
Um, let's build one another upand let's lift one another up.
And I've been very intentionalabout that in all of my
relationships.
Um, my partner and I...
He, I travel quite a bit forwork now and people will joke,
(20:44):
they're like, Oh, dad'sbabysitting.
My husband is wanting to saylike, no, I'm parenting, right?
Like this is what a partnershipis.
And he even helps me, you know,I'll call him and I'll be like,
ah, I got this piece offeedback.
I don't love it.
Like, can you talk me throughit?
And he helps me remember, like,you're always going to have more
to learn, but there's also like,you know what you're doing and
(21:05):
like, here's the proof that youknow what you're doing.
And then I lean on the womenthat again, I just, we have this
group and there are days where Iwill text them and I'm like, I
don't know what I'm doing.
I'm an idiot.
Someone help me.
And inevitably, right?
All of them will call or textand we'll, you know, we'll get
back together and buildourselves up again.
(21:27):
But I think we have such.
Women are incredible, right?
I, it, it bothers me that wethink that so many women think
so little of themselves and thatthey don't know who they are or
have that confidence.
And I want my daughter.
(21:48):
And my nieces and my nephews andall the Children are all right
to grow up with that same levelof confidence to say, I like who
I am.
It may be different, but likeit's me.
That's what I want for my kidsand all the kids.
Yeah.
Sabine (22:04):
Thank you for sharing that.
And so I, what I'm gatheringfrom that is you had a very,
very strong role model, uh,growing up.
So you, you got to witnesssomeone who was standing in
their own power, someone who wasstanding in their own
confidence.
And, you know, as, as littlekids were absorbing everything,
right.
And we, we will model our, ourparents, whether we want to or
(22:25):
not, um, the bad, the good andthe bad.
You're right.
And so, yeah.
Because you had those earlierexperiences, it sounds like
you've been able to carry that.
And not only that, You'veattracted people or you've
sought out people who mirrorthat back to you or who project
that back to you and who helpsupport you in maintaining that
and I think that that's a hugepiece for us, especially as
(22:48):
women, regardless of what ourearlier experiences are right
you know that that saying thatwe are the sum of the five
people that we hang out the mostI think it needs to be a little
bit more than five.
Um, but you know it that's trueand so.
This is an opportunity for you,for those of you who are
listening, you know, to, youknow, not look at your friend
(23:08):
circle or your family and belike, Oh no, I got to cut you
all off.
I need to cut some people off.
Yeah.
Let's not do that, but reallyexamine are the people around
you.
Reflecting back to you what youbelieve about yourself and if
that answer is yes, right,whatever, whatever side it falls
on, is that what you wantmirrored?
(23:29):
Like, is that actually who youbelieve yourself to be or who
you want yourself to show up inthe world?
Um, you know, so much of what wetalk about here.
Yes, we're talking about careergrowth.
We're talking about success.
We're talking about all thesethings, but if you've listened
to the theme in this.
Series like these women aredoing actual work that can't be
(23:51):
seen.
It has nothing to do with theirsocial economic status.
It's about them recognizing thatwho I am.
Is the core of whatever I bringto the table, whatever role or
seat that I'm sitting in.
And if I'm not right withinmyself, then I can't be
effective outwardly.
So, you know, Aaron, thank youfor sharing that.
(24:13):
And I hope, you know, that, thatpublic service announcement
Erin (24:18):
has an important one.
It is such an important
Sabine (24:20):
one.
Absolutely.
And so, you know, along thoselines, cause I'm, I'm a big.
Proponent of creating community.
Um, and that's not just, youknow, friend groups and people
to hang out with.
So that's all great and all, butyou know, when you think about
creating community back in theday, uh, where, you know, they
used to say it takes a villageto raise a child.
I grew up poor as we were in anenvironment where, you know,
(24:45):
everyone who lived around me,like everyone, everyone had my
back.
Right.
So, you know, I could easilystay at my neighbors or I could
watch their kids and.
I grew up in environments wherecommunity was huge as we grow up
as adults, right.
And we start lifing and we startadulting.
Our community gets smaller andsmaller and smaller, and it
(25:05):
becomes, you know, the people inour household or the people who
are at our jobs.
And we use them based on, youknow, whatever that environment
is.
But I think that there is a,there is a missed opportunity
here where.
We, you know, we're not being asintentional of, okay.
Yes.
I have my family unit.
Yes.
I have my work unit.
(25:26):
Yes.
I have these pockets, but when Ilook at my circle, right, the
people who support me, thepeople who uplift me creating
that.
And so it sounds like throughthis whole meta process or
Facebook process, you hadalready begun creating that and
you've maintained that.
So I'm curious, you know, as youthink about.
Yeah.
The support group.
And you, you mentioned before,um, you know, the daily
(25:48):
gratitude, talk to us a littlebit about what are some of the
day to day things that you'veimplemented in your life and in
your world to help you maintain,to help you stay at that high
vibration, so to speak, whereyou are showing up confident and
in your power and in yourauthority.
Erin (26:06):
There are a couple of things that are incredibly
important to me.
Um, so I'm a global company.
We work globally when my kidsare home.
They are mine.
I am theirs.
No one else gets my time with afew rare exceptions.
Um, right.
If my CEO calls me like, okay,you can, you can maybe have 10
minutes.
Um, but that part, my team knowsthe company knows, and that
(26:28):
keeps me grounded.
Um, nothing like a five year oldtelling you that you didn't get
the right color popsicles tomake sure that you were grounded
back to earth.
It doesn't matter what you didthat day.
Um, so that's one.
I meditate every day, um, hugeshout out to the Peloton app.
I use it religiously.
(26:50):
Um, and I've actually starteddoing some journaling on, Hey,
here's.
Here are thoughts that I haveand here's what I want to work
through and focus on and I workout every day.
Um, it keeps me sane.
It keeps me from losing my mind.
And honestly, when I work out, Isolve a lot of the problems in
my head because I can get out ofthinking from everything else.
(27:12):
And I'm not on a phone call or aZoom call or whatever it is.
So, so those things help keep megrounded.
And I.
I at least once a week try topractice gratitude in some way,
shape, or form.
Um, it's actually another stickynote right here that says
practice gratitude.
And so sometimes that's reachingout to my team and saying, Hey,
(27:33):
I appreciate you.
Here's a Starbucks gift card, orwe do Lulu because we love Lulu
lemon.
So we'll send you that.
Um, but it's some way, shape, orform just to know that.
I wouldn't be here.
Right.
If it weren't for a lot of thesedifferent people.
Um, and I am incrediblyfortunate to be where I am.
And I don't want to take thatfor granted because there's a
(27:56):
lot of bad shit that goes on inthe world.
And I'm, I'm very, very luckywhere I'm at.
Sabine (28:02):
Thank you for sharing that.
And so one of the other thingsthat you mentioned earlier on
was around mentorship and thatyou have a mentor Um, there's,
Always been mentorship availableto women, but that mentorship,
as we know, doesn't alwaysnecessarily translate into, um,
you know, being elevated intohigh level roles or women
(28:24):
getting the visibility that theyneed to be able to advance in
their careers in the capacitythat they that they want or need
to.
So I'm curious, you know, interms of this mentorship
relationship, um, Uh, is thissomething that you sought out
specifically?
How has this helped you orsupported you in your growth?
And what advice would you giveto women who, you know, they
(28:46):
don't have a mentor, maybe theyhave a mentor or mentors, but
it's not really helping tosupport their actual goals.
Erin (28:53):
Yeah, um, and I actually have a couple mentors.
So, um, the one I was speakingabout is a man, but I have
several mentors that I lean on.
He is probably the one that Imeet with the most simply
because he knows me incrediblywell.
I sought him out.
We.
Clicked pretty instantly at aplace that we worked previously,
(29:17):
uh, and his mentorship style andmanagement style was very
aligned to the way that I enjoyto be mentored and managed.
And so there were a lot ofnatural synergies and our
children are the same ages andgo to the same school.
And his wife is amazing and.
Every kind of mom that I wish Icould be.
She is.
So we compliment each other verywell.
(29:39):
Um, so that's that relationship,but I've also sought out women
mentors because there is aperspective and an experience
that men don't have from womenin a leadership role.
And I think that's a reallyimportant call out because.
Meshack is actually a black man,but he and I will even talk
(30:03):
through like the experience thatI have are very different than
the experiences that you've had,like, no one's ever told me,
like, he, he and I were having aconversation and he said, no
one's ever told me like, Hey,the men are talking.
That's been said to me, right?
Like, and those are differentkinds of challenges.
And so I think it's importantthat a people have more than one
(30:23):
mentor, right?
Like, having as many differentperspectives from people that
you trust and you have arelationship with.
Um, I have about three that Ilean on pretty steadily for
different aspects of my life andmy career, but it's important to
have someone that is similar toyou as well so that you can work
(30:44):
through some of those similarchallenges and similar threats,
but then having people differentthan you so that you can see
their perspectives and see howthat might be come across or
ways that you can work betterwith others.
So A, find a mentor.
It is something that can happenorganically.
Sometimes they're forced andthey don't always work out and
(31:04):
people get really frustratedwhen things don't work the first
time.
Oh, I tried it.
I tried it and it didn't workfor me.
It's like, okay, well you triedit once.
It's like trying therapy once.
Like, yeah, you're not going tofind the right person the first
time.
It's going to take a couple ofdifferent iterations.
So being patient with it andhaving an outcome of what you
want to get out of thementorship.
(31:24):
For me, I knew I wanted to be anexecutive.
I knew that I wanted to drivescale and change, and that was
important to me.
And so those are the themes thatI go into my conversation with,
as well as they look back at,here's what I was focused on.
How do I need to modify that?
What behaviors do I need tomodify?
How do I help bring others in?
(31:44):
Having the framework of, hey,here's what we're going to talk
about with your mentor helps setthem up to help you be
successful.
And I think that's the piecethat a lot of people miss.
They show up and they're like,mentor me.
And it's like, Okay, say more,right?
Like, tell me more.
Um, and people, I think that'swhere people get a little
(32:06):
tripped up.
Yeah,
Sabine (32:07):
I totally agree.
I, I, I have this, um, trainingthat I do around building your
success circle.
And it's around, you know,finding your mentors, uh, peers,
your manager, sponsor, you nameit.
Um, but.
You know, most people will,especially if it's like an
organic relationship where theymight know someone and they go
(32:29):
to them for mentorship, thatperson may not even know that
that's the expectation that youhave of them or what specific
goals they can help support you.
So it's important to, onceyou've identified someone as a
potential mentor or sponsor orwhatever, that you're also
telling them, this is how andwhere I need your support.
Um, and this is how I need youto help me.
(32:51):
Um, so thank you for sharingthat.
And then I guess on the flipside, before we go into the
blitz session here, I was havinga conversation, um, with a
senior level, uh, person not toolong ago.
And we were talking about, youknow, around power, authority,
and influence and how.
There's a gap between those whomake it to the executive level
(33:12):
and those who aren't and how dowe actually close that gap and
she gave me an example of, uh,being at a conference and
someone had asked this seniorlevel executive the question and
the lady was going on about, youknow, you got to pay attention
to the way that you dress and,you know, you got to fit the par
and all these things, right?
It was very Yeah.
(33:32):
Superficial.
And she was telling me how, youknow, it really didn't serve
her.
And it, you know, it's when youhear these things of like, how
did you get to the top?
And it has nothing to do with,or not that it doesn't have
anything to do with it, but itdoesn't, it doesn't give you a
roadmap.
The thing that I challenged herwith, or I invited her to look
(33:53):
at it differently.
Well, maybe she's at the top andstill doesn't even believe that
she belongs there.
Maybe the reason why she wasn'table to give you Concrete
examples of things to do orthings that you felt were
actionable was because in herown mind, she felt like, Oh
yeah, I, I just got here and I'mjust, I'm just happy to be here.
(34:13):
And so I share all that becauseit sounds like, you know, not
only have you been able to riseto the top and supported others
to do it.
That piece about, you know,sending the ladder back down.
Um, I think that that's a,that's a place where more and
more women who are sitting inthose executive seats, you have
an accountability.
And I think that goes back tothat silence thing that you were
(34:35):
talking about.
Um, this is not about, you know,putting people on your back
while you're climbing.
This is about when you get tothe top.
Looking back and saying, okay,here's this.
Here's, here's the ladder.
Here's I I've climbed.
I've scraped.
I've done all the smashed
Erin (34:50):
the ceiling.
Let's bring everyone
Sabine (34:52):
up.
Yeah.
And so I'm curious, you know,how are you, how are you able to
do that?
Because it's not common.
Uh, we don't see that modeledvery often.
And I don't believe Let me justpreface this.
I don't believe it's becausethat when women get to the top,
they don't want to help.
I don't believe that at all.
Um, I think they're stillbecause of the battle that they
(35:12):
fall on the way to the top.
They may still be dealing withsome things and adjusting to
their new environment.
So I'm curious, how have youbeen able to, you know, as you
risen, like, okay, here'sanother rung.
Here's another rung.
To the point where now you saidin India, like it's half women,
your executive team or yourleadership team, um, you are
(35:33):
creating that space, thatenvironment, and that culture.
Erin (35:37):
I love this question because it's one of my like.
Biggest qualms, right?
It's the we bust the ceiling,but then like there's still just
not enough women up here withus.
How do we shatter the whole damnthing for me?
It's providing thoseopportunities.
And I say as many women's namesin as many different rooms as I
(35:59):
possibly can.
I've taken the time to try andreally get to know it.
The women, all the women in theorganization, but specifically
those that have come to me andthey're like, I want to do more.
Right.
Like, how do we do more?
How do we get more involved andreally proactively just saying
their names?
It felt like when we weregrowing up, everyone was pitted
(36:19):
against one another as women.
Right.
It was, you know, Brittanyversus Christina.
Right.
Like the whole, the whole nine.
Um, and.
I just hate it.
Like women don't have to be thatway.
And I don't know why we are.
And to your point, I don't thinkit's everyone.
And I think it, a lot of it is asymptom of I'm up here.
I don't want to rock the boat.
(36:40):
I'm scared to rock the boatbecause what if I lose my
position?
Um, and that's a scary place tobe in.
And I hate that it's dependent abit upon the men that you're
also are allies to you.
But I hold them accountable.
Um, and I hold them accountablein every single interview
process that we have in everysingle conversation that we've
(37:02):
had.
It's what, what women'sperspective have you considered
for this?
It's not enough.
It, I, it will never be enough.
And I, I always feel like thereis more I need to be doing, but
Speaking people's names in roomsand making sure that they are
highlighted for everyopportunity.
(37:24):
That's going to be the biggestwin and that's women have to
support women.
It's just got to be 1 of thosethings where we stop competing
against 1 another and thinking,well, there can only be 1 woman
up there or 1, 1, 1 of what itis.
And I'll give you an example.
We had an executive off site acouple of months ago.
And I took the notes.
(37:47):
Because of course I did.
Right.
Like I took the notes.
And after that meeting, one ofone of the peers on the team, he
pulled me inside and he waslike, don't you dare do that.
He's like, you are settingyourself back.
How dare you volunteer to dothat?
That's what you need.
Right?
Like, like, that's, that's theallyship that you need and that
(38:07):
you have to create for otherwomen too.
Sabine (38:10):
Ooh, I love that.
I love that.
He, he recognized that and he isright.
I was like, Oh, you're right.
You're so right.
Yeah.
And it's the thing we complainabout, right?
It's the, Oh my gosh, I'm alwaysthe one to take the notes.
Well, why'd you volunteer ma'am?
Yes.
So a couple of things that Iwant to highlight that you
(38:31):
shared here, and we'll go intothe is that, you know, asking
the question, have youconsidered a woman's
perspective?
Oh, my gosh.
If that is, I mean, that is nonthreatening.
Allows people to beintrospective that now I'm going
to have to sit here and, andask, uh, my, my clients that
(38:51):
question as well, but that issuch a powerful question.
And you can insert anything intothat, right?
You know, a woman's perspective,um, uh, someone from a diverse
background, um, It's almost likewe can't change our behavior and
our patterns of thinking unlessthere is an intentional pattern
interrupt.
And something like that will, I,I can't imagine that it hasn't
(39:15):
caused people to be like, huh,you're right.
I haven't, let me look intothis.
Um, and I think if more of usdid that, even in our personal
lives, right, um, if more of uslooked at it from a place of
curiosity of have I considereddiverse opinions or different
backgrounds or differentexperiences within this
decision, um, I think if weoperated from that space, then,
(39:38):
then we would see.
Major changes in the society.
Um, and then the other thingthat you said was speaking other
women's names in every room thatyou go to.
I think that there's such soimportant.
I mean, I've, you've seen thememes, right?
You know, be around people whowill speak your name in a room
when you're not there.
And we don't understand thepower of that.
That goes back to the silencething that you were saying
(39:59):
before the power of mentioningsomeone else and opening the
door for someone else.
I'll share a cost.
Nothing.
It costs nothing.
Nothing at all.
Um, I've shared a quick story.
I was at an event.
And I'm talking to this lady,you know, she's telling me about
this, uh, this group that shemanages and how they needed some
(40:20):
leadership development.
Obviously that's what I do.
So I started inquiring and shewas like, actually, and this,
and mind you, this was the veryfirst time that I was meeting
this woman.
We've been connected on LinkedInsince like 2019.
So we had been connected.
We never met in person, finallymet her.
And so she was just like, yeah,you know, um, back in March for,
uh, international women's month,we were looking to have an
(40:43):
event.
And I mentioned you as, um, youknow, as a potential speaker,
but they ended up going withsomeone who was already in the
program.
And I can't tell you how likefloored I was to hear that.
Right.
And it didn't even matter thatlike things didn't work out, but
it was just like.
I, first of all, I didn't evenknow she was still following me
(41:04):
on LinkedIn after all thoseyears.
Secondly, to hear that here itwas women's international, um,
month or international women'smonth.
And she was recommending me fora thing that I would have never
even known about.
And so I think it, I want toshare that story to highlight
that, you know, even if whateveryou mentioned the person for
doesn't work out the power inthat.
(41:27):
The power in that for thatperson, if they, if they find
out, or if they never find out,um, but this is how we open
doors for each other.
We're always talking about how,you know, uh, opportunities are
few and far between.
Well, what, what other persondid you create space for?
What other person did you createspace for?
(41:47):
And then I'm going to say thisas the last thing, and then
we're going to get into a goodsession because I love it
forever.
Um, even my book, lead her ship,uh, reloaded, you know, that
was, that stemmed from aconversations that I had with, I
don't know, 20 something ormaybe 30 something plus women.
Right.
And even as I was writing thatbook, like I wanted to
acknowledge each one of them.
Whether they were in corporateor they were in their business.
(42:08):
And so I included theirinformation, their desired
legacy, all of that in the book.
Why?
Because years from now,someone's going to pick it up
and they're going to look at,you know, one of the people that
I referenced or one of thepeople that I talked to, and
they might, they might have aneed for their product or their
service.
And so I just, I want you tohear this.
Uh, for those of you who arelistening, not just as, oh,
(42:29):
okay, well, that sounds great,but no, here are practical ways
that we are doing it.
And there are practical waysthat you can do it in your
everyday.
Erin (42:39):
And I set goals, right?
Like, Hey, like three times amonth, make sure like you've
mentioned or highlighted someoneelse, right?
Like just start off small, butit also makes you happier.
There's nothing better thangiving someone else accolades.
Like it is the best feeling inthe world.
I agree.
Sabine (42:56):
I totally agree.
So with that, we're going tomove into the blitz session.
Three questions.
Are you ready?
I am ready.
Okay.
Awesome.
So first question, knowing whatyou know now, given all of your
experiences, both personal andprofessional, if you could go
back to a younger version ofyourself and give her a piece of
(43:16):
advice that you think would havebeen a game changer for her,
what might
Erin (43:20):
that be?
Just shut up.
You don't know everything.
And that's honestly like, I, I,it's funny.
Like, you know, you hit an agewhere you do know everything and
then you get older and you'relike, I know nothing.
Like I literally, I knownothing.
That's what I tell my team.
I'm like, I hired you becauseyou're smarter than me.
And I know nothing.
(43:41):
So that, I mean, Listen more airand just listen more with.
Yeah.
Sabine (43:46):
Yeah.
I find myself constantlythinking about things that I did
and said in my younger years andI'm just like, Oh yeah, she was
young and dumb.
But at the time you couldn'thave told me that like I had a
life figured out.
So I love that that's not what Iwas expecting you to say but I
love that just shut up andlisten, you don't know
everything.
(44:06):
Yes.
Um, now let's look forward,right?
So you talked about how you'resowing these seeds so that, you
know, your daughter, yournieces, everyone around you, you
know, um, as they're growing up,that they'll have this as, as
part of their identity and partof their truth.
But, you know, we look 40, 50,60, however many years down the
line, and you're looking back atyour life.
(44:28):
You're looking back at theimpact that you made.
What do you want that narrativeto be?
You made people's
Erin (44:35):
lives happier.
Like as long as I made you smileand like some incremental value
add, that's, that's what I want.
Sabine (44:44):
Okay.
Well, uh, you're living thatlegacy for sure.
Um, so I love that.
And then lastly, are, is there abook or have there been any
books that have been pivotal foryou, uh, with regards to your
development personally orprofessionally?
Erin (44:58):
Yes, there is.
Um, and you should have had it,but they're Adam Grant.
The originals is one of myfavorite books.
Um, it's incredible.
It's a really, really good read.
Adam is just an incrediblysmart, intelligent human being.
The other is the last lecture.
Rainy Posh.
(45:19):
He was a, um, he was a professorand the book, I won't give away
the secret, but it's, uh, it'shis last lecture.
And it's, it, it, I heard itwhen I was about 13 and it still
has stuck
Sabine (45:33):
with me.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
So I will be adding both ofthose, the originals and the
last lecture.
hopefully for those of you whoare listening, you don't just
hear these recommendations andthen it's just like, oh, okay,
great book that you actuallyread them because I have learned
that in the seasons in which Iasked these questions, these are
(45:54):
books that I actually need.
Like I can't tell you how manytimes someone has recommended a
book and I'm like, okay, welllet me go ahead and add it to
audible.
Or you have got your list.
Erin (46:04):
Yes.
Yeah.
Sabine (46:05):
right?
The list is in the book.
And then I go in and I read itand I'm like, oh my gosh, this
is exactly what I needed rightNow.
I'm not saying that that's gonnabe the case for every book, but
you're hearing this for aparticular reason.
What's being shared is beingshared for a particular reason.
So if you're like me and youknow, you fall asleep reading a
chapter.
(46:25):
Get audible, get it, you know,get it on audio so that as
you're cleaning the house, asyou're walking the dog, whatever
it is that you're doing, you canbe learning.
Um, I am a true believer thatleaders are readers and books
are by far the greatest way.
Of course you can have a coach,a shameless plug, but I do
believe that, uh, reading it,there's a power, there's a
(46:48):
transfer.
That happens when we, um, whenwe read that you just can't get,
you know, watching a YouTubevideo or Googling something.
So that is my plug for readingwith that.
Aaron, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
Thank you for your authenticity.
And with that, Aaron, for thosewho are wanting to connect with
you and they want to, you know,suck in some of this unique
(47:10):
brilliance that you, you'reputting out in the world, how
can they get in touch with you?
Where do you hang out?
Erin (47:15):
Yes, thank you.
And you are far too kind.
I am available on LinkedIn.
Please find me Erin Sumner,Global Director of HR at Delete
Me.
Um, also a quick shameless plugfor my company.
Join delete me.
com.
Um, we help bring your privacyand your personal information
back into your hands.
So thank you so much for havingme, Sabine.
(47:37):
It was such a joy and a pleasure
Sabine (47:39):
being here.
Absolutely.
And I believe you have, um,there's a discount code, right?
If they use your discount.
Erin (47:45):
Yes.
Use Aaron 50 as a promo code andit'll get you 50 percent
Sabine (47:49):
off.
All right.
Awesome.
I will include that in the shownotes as well as your, uh, your
LinkedIn.
So for those of you who arelistening, thank you for joining
me for another episode, Aaron,thank you so much for sharing
your wisdom and your nuggets oftruth.
Uh, and hopefully for those, youknow, who, who are.
Pondering kind of, how do I makean impact?
(48:10):
How do I expand on my influencethat you've taken some of these,
uh, notes here, uh, and you canbegin to apply them with that.
Have a wonderful rest of theweek.
We will be back next week withanother female powerhouse.
Take care.
You enjoyed this week's episode.
If you found today'sconversation helpful, or got a
piece of insight that you planto implement in your life, I'd
(48:33):
love to hear from you.
Connect with me on LinkedIn atSabine Gideon and send me a
message, or feel free to leave areview on either Apple or
Spotify.
I also invite you to share thisepisode with anyone in your
network, another powerhouse,possibly who you think might
benefit from today'sconversation.
Lastly, as always, any links,any resources, or any upcoming
(48:54):
training is included in the shownotes.
So be sure to check that beforeyou leave today until we chat
again, have a blessed andpowerful week.
Are you tired of playing smalland ready to step confidently
into your greatness and shareyour unique brilliance with the
world?
Well, you're in the right place.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI've dedicated nearly two
decades empowering individualsand leaders as they confidently
navigate the twists and turns oflife and career transitions.
If you're seeking direction,connection, or just a little
(00:22):
push to play bigger, considerthis podcast, your VIP path to a
community that genuinelyunderstands your journey.
Join me every week for candidconversations and practical
guidance designed to help younavigate the challenges of life
and business, foster a growthmindset, and cultivate
meaningful connections.
It's time to embrace yourinherent power, define your
(00:44):
unique purpose, and prosper inevery aspect of your life.
Let's get started.
Sabine (00:55):
Hello and welcome to another episode.
I'm your host, Sabine Gideon.
Thank you so much for joiningthis week.
And of course we have anotheramazing female powerhouse that
we're going to have theconversation with around the
relationship with power.
And so today's guest is AaronSumner.
Aaron is a mother of Irish twinsjuggling the beautiful chaos of
(01:18):
parenthood while spearheadingthe HR efforts at a dynamic
startup named delete me.
Her journey took an unexpectedturn when she found herself at
the heart of a transformativeexperience, a part of the
initial wave of layoffs at Mettain November of 2022.
This pivotal moment shaped herresilience and reinforced her
commitment to championingindividuals rights in the
(01:39):
digital realm with that, welcometo the show, Aaron.
Erin (01:44):
Thanks Sabine.
Really excited to be here.
Thank you for having me on theshow, as you mentioned, seen a
lot of growth over the lastyear.
So sitting here about a year, alittle over a year after the
initial shock of being a part ofmy first layoff ever, having
learned a lot and.
(02:04):
Got an opportunity to lean onthe shoulders of some incredible
women that helped me get towhere I am.
So I'm really excited to be heretoday.
Thank you for having
Sabine (02:13):
me.
Absolutely.
I'm excited to, to hear aboutthis transformative experience,
but before we get into that, youknow, obviously, you know,
working at, at Metta is huge.
Uh, but I, I know that that wasa journey that, that took you
there.
So if you could share with ussome of Key career catalysts or
milestones that you experiencedthat led you up until that
(02:35):
layoff in November, 2022.
Erin (02:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, the, the cliche of noone's career path is linear.
You hear it and you never thinkit's true.
And then you experience it andyou're like, Oh, they actually
do know something.
Um, I was incredibly fortunate.
I graduated from North CarolinaState University.
(02:58):
Go Wolfpack! I won't say whatyear, um, but I knew very early
on that working with people wasmy passion and it, what gave
it's what gave me energy.
So human resources was natural.
I took accounting.
It did not go well.
Math is not for me.
We actually have a joke on myteam that Aaron math gives you
(03:19):
two kids in 13 months.
So don't do it.
But so I got the chance to havea couple internships.
throughout my college careerthat were specifically within
the HR realm and gave me a tasteof a lot of different things.
And the first catalyst was I wasgiven the opportunity to fly out
(03:41):
and live in San Diego as a 21year old and help run their
entire internship program, um,which was about 500 CS.
Um, hardware engineers, CSmeaning computer science,
apologies.
So software, hardware engineers,business, human resources, um,
all gathered in San Diego.
Didn't even know that was a job,right?
(04:02):
So when you're asked when you'relittle, what do you want to be
when you grow up?
Being a campus recruiter wasn'teven an option that existed in
my head.
Um, got the opportunity to dothat into my senior year.
graduated, worked with themseveral times, and that's when
Facebook called the first time.
So I was engaged to my nowhusband, uh, but we were engaged
(04:25):
at the time, got the call fromFacebook for the opportunity.
We had to move across thecountry, um, and my husband was
orig is originally fromMichigan, so we got married.
Didn't tell our family until wegot back from the honeymoon,
packed up our house two weekslater, um, and shipped out to
San Francisco to live for a fewyears.
(04:48):
Facebook.
Cause it was Facebook and willalways be Facebook to me.
The first time it was drinkingfrom a fire hose at a tempo,
which I'd never reallyexperienced before.
And that I like it very much tothe startup style.
Um, and I think a lot of peoplefrom that time, which was.
Mid 2010s, um, would say thesame thing.
(05:12):
You're creating processes,you're building, you're learning
as you go.
Worked with the smartest people.
Um, I'll never forget finishingthe interview and getting on the
plane to come back home and justthinking my brain hurts, and it
was the first time that my brainhad ever.
actually hurt from thinkingthrough things.
And that was my, I wanted, Iwant to do more of this, right?
(05:36):
Um, fast forward a few years,loved Facebook, was amazing, but
we decided to grow our family.
And as anyone who has been inthe Bay Area, can attest to
sitting in traffic, cost ofliving, um, just unsustainable
and not really what I wanted formy family.
So we moved back home toCharlotte, North Carolina, which
(05:58):
is where I'm originally from.
I was given the opportunity Tolead up a campus recruitment
program and a couple of othercompanies at that point in time,
um, in addition to having mydaughter 12 months after that.
Um, but so during that time thatI was leading these couple of
other kind of new grad internprograms, COVID hit and My
(06:23):
husband had started his owncompany six months prior to
that, meaning that the incomewas mine, the benefits were
mine, and there was a globalpandemic happening.
He was not in the house, um,because his job was, is to build
patios and landscapes, so he wasworking outside.
I was managing a global team atthis time.
It was not.
It was not easy to say the leastand I would say that that is
(06:46):
the, that's where I learned my,my leadership skills that I
truly I am most proud of.
It's my empathy.
It was very, very challengingfor me.
I did not feel as though I hadthe support.
Um, there were a couple ofthings said throughout the
(07:07):
organization, a couple ofdifferent organizations that I
was working with from people whowere just quit your job and
become a stay at home mom.
Like that's what you should do.
Or.
If it's this hard, like youshould, you should have chosen
not to have kids.
And it's like, okay, like noneof that's helpful.
Right?
Like none of that is actuallyhelping.
And it was primarily from men,but there were women with the
(07:29):
same and it.
It actually spurred something inme and I, I read or heard it and
someone will correct me on whosaid this, but I have it as a
sticky note on my monitor hereand it says, will you be proud
of your silence.
And so that is something that inmy head I'm consistently going
(07:50):
back to whether it be myleadership, my company, whatever
it is, it's Hey, can you look atyourself and be proud of the
fact that you stayed silentduring this.
Um, and as women, right.
It's easy to stay silent.
Um, it's, it's encouragedoftentimes to stay silent.
And so That was pivotal for me.
Um, and as you can see, right,it's not always linear.
(08:13):
It's not always, hey, things aregoing exactly as I want.
And that's what I learned.
I've learned the most from thehardest times, which sucks,
right?
Like you have to go through thisshit to get through the other
side.
Um, so coming out of COVID.
And, and that experience, um,one of my previous managers
reached out from Facebook, youknow, we're building this team,
(08:35):
we're scaling, you can workremote, right?
Like, would love to have youback, jumped at the opportunity
and we scaled the team fromseven people to 63 in a man, in
a time frame of about sixmonths.
Um, and then we spent aboutseven to eight months in limbo
as a, as a company.
Um, we shut down kind of all thehiring.
(08:58):
didn't do a lot, um, found waysto kind of keep ourselves busy
through the turmoil of what wasgoing on.
And leaned on one another.
So November 9th, 2022, there hadbeen a couple of leaks to the
press, um, right.
Of, Oh, Facebook's going to doMetta's going to do layoffs in
(09:19):
this state or that day, andthey'd all been untrue up until
that point in time.
Um, but I, I think theWashington post leaked it.
And for some reason we all werelike.
If they're reporting it, it'smore than likely true.
And so it, the, the emails weresent out around 6 a.
(09:41):
m.
whatever time zone you were in.
And so there were a few of uswho were on the East Coast and
we knew we were, you know, very,very high performers.
And so 555, you know, wake upand you get the email.
We've made the tough decision.
And immediately there was agroup of about Six women.
(10:03):
Um, we still to this day havethis same group.
We kept in touch.
It's what are you thankful fortoday?
And it can't be cliche, right?
It can't be, oh, I'm thankfulfor you.
I'm thankful for my kids.
Like, what are you?
And some days it was, you knowwhat?
I'm really thankful that I got aworkout in today, right?
That was the win for the day,but it taught me that.
(10:27):
You're always going to be anumber to some standpoint,
right?
It is what it is.
But, and I, I'm, I'm a personwho gives all and whatever I do,
but the relationships that youbuild out of stuff like that,
and I call them somewhattraumatic experiences because
they are traumatic, right?
I've got an entire family thatdepends on me for a lot of
different things.
(10:48):
Um, it was a catalyst that mademe angry.
Honestly, but it was definitelya catalyst that made me evaluate
in my next role what wasimportant.
Um, and so when Delete Mereached out, it was the
opportunity to build something.
(11:09):
But more than that, the founderThe reasoning behind the company
is it's the right thing to do.
People deserve their personalinformation, right?
So, so one of the things thatsomeone said, and this is kind
of where I'll leave it is Whenyou have a bad day, remember
you're fighting for the goodguys.
Um, and that one that, that Iactually read it on my
(11:31):
whiteboard behind me.
And it's something I look atevery day.
Sabine (11:35):
That's awesome.
Wow.
What a, what a journey.
And, and, you know, certainly itsounds like you are, uh, you
went from one environment to thecomplete opposite.
And I almost wonder if, youknow, oftentimes we don't see it
until hindsight, right.
That a lot of the earlierexperiences were really just
(11:55):
training or setting us up orputting us in that mindset that
we needed to be for that nextopportunity.
And so today at delete me, tellus a little bit about, you know,
what your role is, how you'remaking an impact, um, as, as a
senior leader there.
Erin (12:13):
I have the best job.
I get to lead up all of thepeople and culture at Delete Me.
So I, we, as a company, havegrown incredibly.
And what I help do is reallyhelp foster the talent
management, the culture andengagement of our employees and
set things in place.
So.
One of the things I'm most proudof, we have a WIP.
(12:34):
It's called Women in PrivacyGroup.
So we get together once a month.
We've done a couple book clubs.
We did terrarium building lastweek, but we also support one
another.
Um, we've gone through somepromotions recently and seeing
the women in there just kind ofshout one another up and, and
really have the chance to buildone another up with something we
(12:54):
didn't have before, which I lovebeing a part of.
Sabine (12:59):
Thinking about, you know, this series with regards
to supporting women and, andhelping us to redefine, uh, what
it is to be powerful, redefinewhat it means to be a leader,
what it means to be impactfuland influential.
Um, I'm, I'm curious because Iknow you have some thoughts, um,
(13:19):
as you think about, ourrelationship with power.
I've been asking guests to, youknow, help me dissect from their
point of view, how theyinterpret or define power.
Authority and influence and howthat shows up in their life
today or what their earlierexperiences were with each.
So I'm curious for you, youknow, how would you define those
(13:42):
three and how do they show upfor
Erin (13:45):
you?
I love these power, authority,and influence, which huge three
words, um, have such animplication on so many things.
Power.
I equate very much toconfidence.
So I, I have jokingly say thisand Sabine, you might need to
cut this, but sometimes I'mlike, you need the confidence of
a mediocre white man when hegoes in and ask for a raise.
(14:07):
Right?
Like if everyone could havethat, we'd all be way better
off, but it's, it's knowing it'shaving confidence in who you
are, gives you power.
One of the pieces of feedbackthat I am most proud of that I
receive, and I love sports, so Ido lean into sports analogies,
(14:27):
but I punch above my weightclass, meaning I very much
respect the position you're in,but I also respect the knowledge
and the information that I have,and I will push back where it's
needed.
And my CEO and I have a verygood relationship where we push
and pull each other a lot.
I have that with my entireexecutive team.
(14:49):
I force that with my entireteam, right?
It's, hey, I don't expect you toagree with everything.
If we are, then like, I have notdone a good job of hiring.
Diversity on my team right likethat's not a win for me.
I need you to push back.
And so that's what I think powerrelates to authority so I'm
(15:09):
going to, I'm going to pull outa quote here.
It's a Game of Thrones referenceso there's a point.
Which King, not King, it wasKing Joffrey at the time, but he
makes the exclamation that I amking and his grandfather Tywin
Lannister then says, it's notgoing to be a direct quote, but
something to the effect ofanyone who is truly a king does
(15:33):
not need to proclaim it.
That's what I believe authorityis right.
It is having people.
understand that you don't haveto stand up and say something,
but they know by your, yourcharacter and their relationship
that you're making the decisionsin the way that align with
what's best for the company forwhatever decision that you're
(15:56):
making.
And that's where the authoritycomes, comes from.
One of the mistakes I made earlyin my career was just thinking
being good at your job, right?
Like that gives you authorityand that's, that's not it.
It takes time.
And we, we go from being thesmartest, right?
Like, okay, yes, overachieversand, you know, elementary,
(16:18):
middle, high school, you tocollege related job.
And you're used to always beingthe best.
You're not the best.
You shouldn't be the best in thenext room.
So the, the.
The humbleness of that took mesome years to learn.
Um, but it's, it was, I have amentor, um, and he works with me
(16:38):
a lot.
And he came into my life about10 years ago, so a little,
little less than a decade.
And he says to me all the time,he's like, the authority is,
it's not something that youclaim.
It's just something thathappens.
Um, so that's, that's how I viewauthority.
And then influence is just, ittakes time.
(17:01):
It's I, we, we're going overrewards and recognition, right,
for our entire company.
And we've, we've talked aboutthis in a couple of other
women's groups that I have, butit's.
If it's not a natural, organicthing for you to praise someone,
especially in the position ofleadership, why would you expect
(17:21):
anyone on your team to do so?
And you can point to any study,any research, right?
Like, those natural littlethings, those mean the most to
people, right?
It's, hey, I know your dog diedlast week, like let me send you
a bouquet of flowers orchocolates or whatever it is,
and it's really just, and again,it just, it takes the time and
(17:43):
the care to show more, and thatyou do know what you're doing
and that your perspective mightbe different, but you're still
working towards the commontheme.
Sabine (17:53):
Um, one of the things that I appreciated and when you
started off with power isrelating it to confidence,
right?
And that's another one where,you know, we all want to be
confident, but everyone hastheir definition of what
confidence is, what it lookslike.
Uh, is it a feeling, is it aknowing, is it all these.
(18:15):
And even as you were definingpower and you were defining the,
the, the, it's relationship toconfidence.
It was very clear to me that,that, that you were confident in
your power, that you areconfident in knowing who you
are, what you bring to thetable.
And we know, you know, we knowthe truth that not everyone has
that, or not everyone is able totap into that.
(18:37):
So I'm curious if you can thinkback to, you know, earlier
experiences or just, you know,life in general.
What has helped you, what hasspecifically supported you in
anchoring in your own power andin your own confidence and being
able to, you know, emanate thatso effortlessly.
Erin (18:57):
That's a very, very kind compliment.
Thank you.
Um, I, I've, again, I, I've beenincredibly lucky.
I, I grew up in my mom, um, whois a executive.
President, vice president, bankof America has been there for 37
years.
(19:18):
She, she doesn't take shit fromanyone.
Right.
And it's never been one of thosethings where it is because I'm a
woman.
It's just that I know what I'mtalking about.
Um, and again, there was a partof me who took that when I was
like 13 and I was like, I'm theexact same, I know it all.
No one talked to me.
So when my daughter hits thatage, um, I'm going to be hiding
(19:40):
in a cave just so everyone'saware, uh, cause I'm expecting
it to come back.
Um, but I was really lucky tohave her as kind of a guide
post.
And then I was really fortunatein that the people that I've
surrounded myself with, andagain, there will be people who
(20:01):
will come and go in your livesand are there for moments and
chapters and not the wholebooks, but I, I focus on people
who bring me good energy andhelp uplift me.
I have this saying, I hateplaying the suffering Olympics,
right?
Um, I'm not in it to see how badpeople's lives are, right?
(20:23):
I went through COVID, it sucked,it was terrible, we don't need
to do that.
Um, let's build one another upand let's lift one another up.
And I've been very intentionalabout that in all of my
relationships.
Um, my partner and I...
He, I travel quite a bit forwork now and people will joke,
(20:44):
they're like, Oh, dad'sbabysitting.
My husband is wanting to saylike, no, I'm parenting, right?
Like this is what a partnershipis.
And he even helps me, you know,I'll call him and I'll be like,
ah, I got this piece offeedback.
I don't love it.
Like, can you talk me throughit?
And he helps me remember, like,you're always going to have more
to learn, but there's also like,you know what you're doing and
(21:05):
like, here's the proof that youknow what you're doing.
And then I lean on the womenthat again, I just, we have this
group and there are days where Iwill text them and I'm like, I
don't know what I'm doing.
I'm an idiot.
Someone help me.
And inevitably, right?
All of them will call or textand we'll, you know, we'll get
back together and buildourselves up again.
(21:27):
But I think we have such.
Women are incredible, right?
I, it, it bothers me that wethink that so many women think
so little of themselves and thatthey don't know who they are or
have that confidence.
And I want my daughter.
(21:48):
And my nieces and my nephews andall the Children are all right
to grow up with that same levelof confidence to say, I like who
I am.
It may be different, but likeit's me.
That's what I want for my kidsand all the kids.
Yeah.
Sabine (22:04):
Thank you for sharing that.
And so I, what I'm gatheringfrom that is you had a very,
very strong role model, uh,growing up.
So you, you got to witnesssomeone who was standing in
their own power, someone who wasstanding in their own
confidence.
And, you know, as, as littlekids were absorbing everything,
right.
And we, we will model our, ourparents, whether we want to or
(22:25):
not, um, the bad, the good andthe bad.
You're right.
And so, yeah.
Because you had those earlierexperiences, it sounds like
you've been able to carry that.
And not only that, You'veattracted people or you've
sought out people who mirrorthat back to you or who project
that back to you and who helpsupport you in maintaining that
and I think that that's a hugepiece for us, especially as
(22:48):
women, regardless of what ourearlier experiences are right
you know that that saying thatwe are the sum of the five
people that we hang out the mostI think it needs to be a little
bit more than five.
Um, but you know it that's trueand so.
This is an opportunity for you,for those of you who are
listening, you know, to, youknow, not look at your friend
(23:08):
circle or your family and belike, Oh no, I got to cut you
all off.
I need to cut some people off.
Yeah.
Let's not do that, but reallyexamine are the people around
you.
Reflecting back to you what youbelieve about yourself and if
that answer is yes, right,whatever, whatever side it falls
on, is that what you wantmirrored?
(23:29):
Like, is that actually who youbelieve yourself to be or who
you want yourself to show up inthe world?
Um, you know, so much of what wetalk about here.
Yes, we're talking about careergrowth.
We're talking about success.
We're talking about all thesethings, but if you've listened
to the theme in this.
Series like these women aredoing actual work that can't be
(23:51):
seen.
It has nothing to do with theirsocial economic status.
It's about them recognizing thatwho I am.
Is the core of whatever I bringto the table, whatever role or
seat that I'm sitting in.
And if I'm not right withinmyself, then I can't be
effective outwardly.
So, you know, Aaron, thank youfor sharing that.
(24:13):
And I hope, you know, that, thatpublic service announcement
Erin (24:18):
has an important one.
It is such an important
Sabine (24:20):
one.
Absolutely.
And so, you know, along thoselines, cause I'm, I'm a big.
Proponent of creating community.
Um, and that's not just, youknow, friend groups and people
to hang out with.
So that's all great and all, butyou know, when you think about
creating community back in theday, uh, where, you know, they
used to say it takes a villageto raise a child.
I grew up poor as we were in anenvironment where, you know,
(24:45):
everyone who lived around me,like everyone, everyone had my
back.
Right.
So, you know, I could easilystay at my neighbors or I could
watch their kids and.
I grew up in environments wherecommunity was huge as we grow up
as adults, right.
And we start lifing and we startadulting.
Our community gets smaller andsmaller and smaller, and it
(25:05):
becomes, you know, the people inour household or the people who
are at our jobs.
And we use them based on, youknow, whatever that environment
is.
But I think that there is a,there is a missed opportunity
here where.
We, you know, we're not being asintentional of, okay.
Yes.
I have my family unit.
Yes.
I have my work unit.
(25:26):
Yes.
I have these pockets, but when Ilook at my circle, right, the
people who support me, thepeople who uplift me creating
that.
And so it sounds like throughthis whole meta process or
Facebook process, you hadalready begun creating that and
you've maintained that.
So I'm curious, you know, as youthink about.
Yeah.
The support group.
And you, you mentioned before,um, you know, the daily
(25:48):
gratitude, talk to us a littlebit about what are some of the
day to day things that you'veimplemented in your life and in
your world to help you maintain,to help you stay at that high
vibration, so to speak, whereyou are showing up confident and
in your power and in yourauthority.
Erin (26:06):
There are a couple of things that are incredibly
important to me.
Um, so I'm a global company.
We work globally when my kidsare home.
They are mine.
I am theirs.
No one else gets my time with afew rare exceptions.
Um, right.
If my CEO calls me like, okay,you can, you can maybe have 10
minutes.
Um, but that part, my team knowsthe company knows, and that
(26:28):
keeps me grounded.
Um, nothing like a five year oldtelling you that you didn't get
the right color popsicles tomake sure that you were grounded
back to earth.
It doesn't matter what you didthat day.
Um, so that's one.
I meditate every day, um, hugeshout out to the Peloton app.
I use it religiously.
(26:50):
Um, and I've actually starteddoing some journaling on, Hey,
here's.
Here are thoughts that I haveand here's what I want to work
through and focus on and I workout every day.
Um, it keeps me sane.
It keeps me from losing my mind.
And honestly, when I work out, Isolve a lot of the problems in
my head because I can get out ofthinking from everything else.
(27:12):
And I'm not on a phone call or aZoom call or whatever it is.
So, so those things help keep megrounded.
And I.
I at least once a week try topractice gratitude in some way,
shape, or form.
Um, it's actually another stickynote right here that says
practice gratitude.
And so sometimes that's reachingout to my team and saying, Hey,
(27:33):
I appreciate you.
Here's a Starbucks gift card, orwe do Lulu because we love Lulu
lemon.
So we'll send you that.
Um, but it's some way, shape, orform just to know that.
I wouldn't be here.
Right.
If it weren't for a lot of thesedifferent people.
Um, and I am incrediblyfortunate to be where I am.
And I don't want to take thatfor granted because there's a
(27:56):
lot of bad shit that goes on inthe world.
And I'm, I'm very, very luckywhere I'm at.
Sabine (28:02):
Thank you for sharing that.
And so one of the other thingsthat you mentioned earlier on
was around mentorship and thatyou have a mentor Um, there's,
Always been mentorship availableto women, but that mentorship,
as we know, doesn't alwaysnecessarily translate into, um,
you know, being elevated intohigh level roles or women
(28:24):
getting the visibility that theyneed to be able to advance in
their careers in the capacitythat they that they want or need
to.
So I'm curious, you know, interms of this mentorship
relationship, um, Uh, is thissomething that you sought out
specifically?
How has this helped you orsupported you in your growth?
And what advice would you giveto women who, you know, they
(28:46):
don't have a mentor, maybe theyhave a mentor or mentors, but
it's not really helping tosupport their actual goals.
Erin (28:53):
Yeah, um, and I actually have a couple mentors.
So, um, the one I was speakingabout is a man, but I have
several mentors that I lean on.
He is probably the one that Imeet with the most simply
because he knows me incrediblywell.
I sought him out.
We.
Clicked pretty instantly at aplace that we worked previously,
(29:17):
uh, and his mentorship style andmanagement style was very
aligned to the way that I enjoyto be mentored and managed.
And so there were a lot ofnatural synergies and our
children are the same ages andgo to the same school.
And his wife is amazing and.
Every kind of mom that I wish Icould be.
She is.
So we compliment each other verywell.
(29:39):
Um, so that's that relationship,but I've also sought out women
mentors because there is aperspective and an experience
that men don't have from womenin a leadership role.
And I think that's a reallyimportant call out because.
Meshack is actually a black man,but he and I will even talk
(30:03):
through like the experience thatI have are very different than
the experiences that you've had,like, no one's ever told me,
like, he, he and I were having aconversation and he said, no
one's ever told me like, Hey,the men are talking.
That's been said to me, right?
Like, and those are differentkinds of challenges.
And so I think it's importantthat a people have more than one
(30:23):
mentor, right?
Like, having as many differentperspectives from people that
you trust and you have arelationship with.
Um, I have about three that Ilean on pretty steadily for
different aspects of my life andmy career, but it's important to
have someone that is similar toyou as well so that you can work
(30:44):
through some of those similarchallenges and similar threats,
but then having people differentthan you so that you can see
their perspectives and see howthat might be come across or
ways that you can work betterwith others.
So A, find a mentor.
It is something that can happenorganically.
Sometimes they're forced andthey don't always work out and
(31:04):
people get really frustratedwhen things don't work the first
time.
Oh, I tried it.
I tried it and it didn't workfor me.
It's like, okay, well you triedit once.
It's like trying therapy once.
Like, yeah, you're not going tofind the right person the first
time.
It's going to take a couple ofdifferent iterations.
So being patient with it andhaving an outcome of what you
want to get out of thementorship.
(31:24):
For me, I knew I wanted to be anexecutive.
I knew that I wanted to drivescale and change, and that was
important to me.
And so those are the themes thatI go into my conversation with,
as well as they look back at,here's what I was focused on.
How do I need to modify that?
What behaviors do I need tomodify?
How do I help bring others in?
(31:44):
Having the framework of, hey,here's what we're going to talk
about with your mentor helps setthem up to help you be
successful.
And I think that's the piecethat a lot of people miss.
They show up and they're like,mentor me.
And it's like, Okay, say more,right?
Like, tell me more.
Um, and people, I think that'swhere people get a little
(32:06):
tripped up.
Yeah,
Sabine (32:07):
I totally agree.
I, I, I have this, um, trainingthat I do around building your
success circle.
And it's around, you know,finding your mentors, uh, peers,
your manager, sponsor, you nameit.
Um, but.
You know, most people will,especially if it's like an
organic relationship where theymight know someone and they go
(32:29):
to them for mentorship, thatperson may not even know that
that's the expectation that youhave of them or what specific
goals they can help support you.
So it's important to, onceyou've identified someone as a
potential mentor or sponsor orwhatever, that you're also
telling them, this is how andwhere I need your support.
Um, and this is how I need youto help me.
(32:51):
Um, so thank you for sharingthat.
And then I guess on the flipside, before we go into the
blitz session here, I was havinga conversation, um, with a
senior level, uh, person not toolong ago.
And we were talking about, youknow, around power, authority,
and influence and how.
There's a gap between those whomake it to the executive level
(33:12):
and those who aren't and how dowe actually close that gap and
she gave me an example of, uh,being at a conference and
someone had asked this seniorlevel executive the question and
the lady was going on about, youknow, you got to pay attention
to the way that you dress and,you know, you got to fit the par
and all these things, right?
It was very Yeah.
(33:32):
Superficial.
And she was telling me how, youknow, it really didn't serve
her.
And it, you know, it's when youhear these things of like, how
did you get to the top?
And it has nothing to do with,or not that it doesn't have
anything to do with it, but itdoesn't, it doesn't give you a
roadmap.
The thing that I challenged herwith, or I invited her to look
(33:53):
at it differently.
Well, maybe she's at the top andstill doesn't even believe that
she belongs there.
Maybe the reason why she wasn'table to give you Concrete
examples of things to do orthings that you felt were
actionable was because in herown mind, she felt like, Oh
yeah, I, I just got here and I'mjust, I'm just happy to be here.
(34:13):
And so I share all that becauseit sounds like, you know, not
only have you been able to riseto the top and supported others
to do it.
That piece about, you know,sending the ladder back down.
Um, I think that that's a,that's a place where more and
more women who are sitting inthose executive seats, you have
an accountability.
And I think that goes back tothat silence thing that you were
(34:35):
talking about.
Um, this is not about, you know,putting people on your back
while you're climbing.
This is about when you get tothe top.
Looking back and saying, okay,here's this.
Here's, here's the ladder.
Here's I I've climbed.
I've scraped.
I've done all the smashed
Erin (34:50):
the ceiling.
Let's bring everyone
Sabine (34:52):
up.
Yeah.
And so I'm curious, you know,how are you, how are you able to
do that?
Because it's not common.
Uh, we don't see that modeledvery often.
And I don't believe Let me justpreface this.
I don't believe it's becausethat when women get to the top,
they don't want to help.
I don't believe that at all.
Um, I think they're stillbecause of the battle that they
(35:12):
fall on the way to the top.
They may still be dealing withsome things and adjusting to
their new environment.
So I'm curious, how have youbeen able to, you know, as you
risen, like, okay, here'sanother rung.
Here's another rung.
To the point where now you saidin India, like it's half women,
your executive team or yourleadership team, um, you are
(35:33):
creating that space, thatenvironment, and that culture.
Erin (35:37):
I love this question because it's one of my like.
Biggest qualms, right?
It's the we bust the ceiling,but then like there's still just
not enough women up here withus.
How do we shatter the whole damnthing for me?
It's providing thoseopportunities.
And I say as many women's namesin as many different rooms as I
(35:59):
possibly can.
I've taken the time to try andreally get to know it.
The women, all the women in theorganization, but specifically
those that have come to me andthey're like, I want to do more.
Right.
Like, how do we do more?
How do we get more involved andreally proactively just saying
their names?
It felt like when we weregrowing up, everyone was pitted
(36:19):
against one another as women.
Right.
It was, you know, Brittanyversus Christina.
Right.
Like the whole, the whole nine.
Um, and.
I just hate it.
Like women don't have to be thatway.
And I don't know why we are.
And to your point, I don't thinkit's everyone.
And I think it, a lot of it is asymptom of I'm up here.
I don't want to rock the boat.
(36:40):
I'm scared to rock the boatbecause what if I lose my
position?
Um, and that's a scary place tobe in.
And I hate that it's dependent abit upon the men that you're
also are allies to you.
But I hold them accountable.
Um, and I hold them accountablein every single interview
process that we have in everysingle conversation that we've
(37:02):
had.
It's what, what women'sperspective have you considered
for this?
It's not enough.
It, I, it will never be enough.
And I, I always feel like thereis more I need to be doing, but
Speaking people's names in roomsand making sure that they are
highlighted for everyopportunity.
(37:24):
That's going to be the biggestwin and that's women have to
support women.
It's just got to be 1 of thosethings where we stop competing
against 1 another and thinking,well, there can only be 1 woman
up there or 1, 1, 1 of what itis.
And I'll give you an example.
We had an executive off site acouple of months ago.
And I took the notes.
(37:47):
Because of course I did.
Right.
Like I took the notes.
And after that meeting, one ofone of the peers on the team, he
pulled me inside and he waslike, don't you dare do that.
He's like, you are settingyourself back.
How dare you volunteer to dothat?
That's what you need.
Right?
Like, like, that's, that's theallyship that you need and that
(38:07):
you have to create for otherwomen too.
Sabine (38:10):
Ooh, I love that.
I love that.
He, he recognized that and he isright.
I was like, Oh, you're right.
You're so right.
Yeah.
And it's the thing we complainabout, right?
It's the, Oh my gosh, I'm alwaysthe one to take the notes.
Well, why'd you volunteer ma'am?
Yes.
So a couple of things that Iwant to highlight that you
(38:31):
shared here, and we'll go intothe is that, you know, asking
the question, have youconsidered a woman's
perspective?
Oh, my gosh.
If that is, I mean, that is nonthreatening.
Allows people to beintrospective that now I'm going
to have to sit here and, andask, uh, my, my clients that
(38:51):
question as well, but that issuch a powerful question.
And you can insert anything intothat, right?
You know, a woman's perspective,um, uh, someone from a diverse
background, um, It's almost likewe can't change our behavior and
our patterns of thinking unlessthere is an intentional pattern
interrupt.
And something like that will, I,I can't imagine that it hasn't
(39:15):
caused people to be like, huh,you're right.
I haven't, let me look intothis.
Um, and I think if more of usdid that, even in our personal
lives, right, um, if more of uslooked at it from a place of
curiosity of have I considereddiverse opinions or different
backgrounds or differentexperiences within this
decision, um, I think if weoperated from that space, then,
(39:38):
then we would see.
Major changes in the society.
Um, and then the other thingthat you said was speaking other
women's names in every room thatyou go to.
I think that there's such soimportant.
I mean, I've, you've seen thememes, right?
You know, be around people whowill speak your name in a room
when you're not there.
And we don't understand thepower of that.
That goes back to the silencething that you were saying
(39:59):
before the power of mentioningsomeone else and opening the
door for someone else.
I'll share a cost.
Nothing.
It costs nothing.
Nothing at all.
Um, I've shared a quick story.
I was at an event.
And I'm talking to this lady,you know, she's telling me about
this, uh, this group that shemanages and how they needed some
(40:20):
leadership development.
Obviously that's what I do.
So I started inquiring and shewas like, actually, and this,
and mind you, this was the veryfirst time that I was meeting
this woman.
We've been connected on LinkedInsince like 2019.
So we had been connected.
We never met in person, finallymet her.
And so she was just like, yeah,you know, um, back in March for,
uh, international women's month,we were looking to have an
(40:43):
event.
And I mentioned you as, um, youknow, as a potential speaker,
but they ended up going withsomeone who was already in the
program.
And I can't tell you how likefloored I was to hear that.
Right.
And it didn't even matter thatlike things didn't work out, but
it was just like.
I, first of all, I didn't evenknow she was still following me
(41:04):
on LinkedIn after all thoseyears.
Secondly, to hear that here itwas women's international, um,
month or international women'smonth.
And she was recommending me fora thing that I would have never
even known about.
And so I think it, I want toshare that story to highlight
that, you know, even if whateveryou mentioned the person for
doesn't work out the power inthat.
(41:27):
The power in that for thatperson, if they, if they find
out, or if they never find out,um, but this is how we open
doors for each other.
We're always talking about how,you know, uh, opportunities are
few and far between.
Well, what, what other persondid you create space for?
What other person did you createspace for?
(41:47):
And then I'm going to say thisas the last thing, and then
we're going to get into a goodsession because I love it
forever.
Um, even my book, lead her ship,uh, reloaded, you know, that
was, that stemmed from aconversations that I had with, I
don't know, 20 something ormaybe 30 something plus women.
Right.
And even as I was writing thatbook, like I wanted to
acknowledge each one of them.
Whether they were in corporateor they were in their business.
(42:08):
And so I included theirinformation, their desired
legacy, all of that in the book.
Why?
Because years from now,someone's going to pick it up
and they're going to look at,you know, one of the people that
I referenced or one of thepeople that I talked to, and
they might, they might have aneed for their product or their
service.
And so I just, I want you tohear this.
Uh, for those of you who arelistening, not just as, oh,
(42:29):
okay, well, that sounds great,but no, here are practical ways
that we are doing it.
And there are practical waysthat you can do it in your
everyday.
Erin (42:39):
And I set goals, right?
Like, Hey, like three times amonth, make sure like you've
mentioned or highlighted someoneelse, right?
Like just start off small, butit also makes you happier.
There's nothing better thangiving someone else accolades.
Like it is the best feeling inthe world.
I agree.
Sabine (42:56):
I totally agree.
So with that, we're going tomove into the blitz session.
Three questions.
Are you ready?
I am ready.
Okay.
Awesome.
So first question, knowing whatyou know now, given all of your
experiences, both personal andprofessional, if you could go
back to a younger version ofyourself and give her a piece of
(43:16):
advice that you think would havebeen a game changer for her,
what might
Erin (43:20):
that be?
Just shut up.
You don't know everything.
And that's honestly like, I, I,it's funny.
Like, you know, you hit an agewhere you do know everything and
then you get older and you'relike, I know nothing.
Like I literally, I knownothing.
That's what I tell my team.
I'm like, I hired you becauseyou're smarter than me.
And I know nothing.
(43:41):
So that, I mean, Listen more airand just listen more with.
Yeah.
Sabine (43:46):
Yeah.
I find myself constantlythinking about things that I did
and said in my younger years andI'm just like, Oh yeah, she was
young and dumb.
But at the time you couldn'thave told me that like I had a
life figured out.
So I love that that's not what Iwas expecting you to say but I
love that just shut up andlisten, you don't know
everything.
(44:06):
Yes.
Um, now let's look forward,right?
So you talked about how you'resowing these seeds so that, you
know, your daughter, yournieces, everyone around you, you
know, um, as they're growing up,that they'll have this as, as
part of their identity and partof their truth.
But, you know, we look 40, 50,60, however many years down the
line, and you're looking back atyour life.
(44:28):
You're looking back at theimpact that you made.
What do you want that narrativeto be?
You made people's
Erin (44:35):
lives happier.
Like as long as I made you smileand like some incremental value
add, that's, that's what I want.
Sabine (44:44):
Okay.
Well, uh, you're living thatlegacy for sure.
Um, so I love that.
And then lastly, are, is there abook or have there been any
books that have been pivotal foryou, uh, with regards to your
development personally orprofessionally?
Erin (44:58):
Yes, there is.
Um, and you should have had it,but they're Adam Grant.
The originals is one of myfavorite books.
Um, it's incredible.
It's a really, really good read.
Adam is just an incrediblysmart, intelligent human being.
The other is the last lecture.
Rainy Posh.
(45:19):
He was a, um, he was a professorand the book, I won't give away
the secret, but it's, uh, it'shis last lecture.
And it's, it, it, I heard itwhen I was about 13 and it still
has stuck
Sabine (45:33):
with me.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
So I will be adding both ofthose, the originals and the
last lecture.
hopefully for those of you whoare listening, you don't just
hear these recommendations andthen it's just like, oh, okay,
great book that you actuallyread them because I have learned
that in the seasons in which Iasked these questions, these are
(45:54):
books that I actually need.
Like I can't tell you how manytimes someone has recommended a
book and I'm like, okay, welllet me go ahead and add it to
audible.
Or you have got your list.
Erin (46:04):
Yes.
Yeah.
Sabine (46:05):
right?
The list is in the book.
And then I go in and I read itand I'm like, oh my gosh, this
is exactly what I needed rightNow.
I'm not saying that that's gonnabe the case for every book, but
you're hearing this for aparticular reason.
What's being shared is beingshared for a particular reason.
So if you're like me and youknow, you fall asleep reading a
chapter.
(46:25):
Get audible, get it, you know,get it on audio so that as
you're cleaning the house, asyou're walking the dog, whatever
it is that you're doing, you canbe learning.
Um, I am a true believer thatleaders are readers and books
are by far the greatest way.
Of course you can have a coach,a shameless plug, but I do
believe that, uh, reading it,there's a power, there's a
(46:48):
transfer.
That happens when we, um, whenwe read that you just can't get,
you know, watching a YouTubevideo or Googling something.
So that is my plug for readingwith that.
Aaron, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
Thank you for your authenticity.
And with that, Aaron, for thosewho are wanting to connect with
you and they want to, you know,suck in some of this unique
(47:10):
brilliance that you, you'reputting out in the world, how
can they get in touch with you?
Where do you hang out?
Erin (47:15):
Yes, thank you.
And you are far too kind.
I am available on LinkedIn.
Please find me Erin Sumner,Global Director of HR at Delete
Me.
Um, also a quick shameless plugfor my company.
Join delete me.
com.
Um, we help bring your privacyand your personal information
back into your hands.
So thank you so much for havingme, Sabine.
(47:37):
It was such a joy and a pleasure
Sabine (47:39):
being here.
Absolutely.
And I believe you have, um,there's a discount code, right?
If they use your discount.
Erin (47:45):
Yes.
Use Aaron 50 as a promo code andit'll get you 50 percent
Sabine (47:49):
off.
All right.
Awesome.
I will include that in the shownotes as well as your, uh, your
LinkedIn.
So for those of you who arelistening, thank you for joining
me for another episode, Aaron,thank you so much for sharing
your wisdom and your nuggets oftruth.
Uh, and hopefully for those, youknow, who, who are.
Pondering kind of, how do I makean impact?
(48:10):
How do I expand on my influencethat you've taken some of these,
uh, notes here, uh, and you canbegin to apply them with that.
Have a wonderful rest of theweek.
We will be back next week withanother female powerhouse.
Take care.
You enjoyed this week's episode.
If you found today'sconversation helpful, or got a
piece of insight that you planto implement in your life, I'd
(48:33):
love to hear from you.
Connect with me on LinkedIn atSabine Gideon and send me a
message, or feel free to leave areview on either Apple or
Spotify.
I also invite you to share thisepisode with anyone in your
network, another powerhouse,possibly who you think might
benefit from today'sconversation.
Lastly, as always, any links,any resources, or any upcoming
(48:54):
training is included in the shownotes.
So be sure to check that beforeyou leave today until we chat
again, have a blessed andpowerful week.
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