August 21, 2024 • 29 mins
Are you planning a pivot into a career that better aligns with your core values? Embracing your unique path and staying true to personal values can lead to remarkable opportunities and growth.
In this episode of the Leading with Power & Purpose Podcast, Sabine speaks with Nola Cartmill. Nola is the Chief Diversity Officer and a member of the legal department for Holmes Murphy and is responsible for leading the company's diversity, equity, and inclusion strategy. She emphasizes that power, authority, and influence aren’t solely tied to titles and why women and people of color need to redefine these concepts.
Listen in to learn the importance of having supportive relationships and adopting self-care practices to help you maintain personal power and confidence in leadership. You will also learn how women, by unifying and collaborating, can drive collective success and bring about significant change in leadership.
Key Takeaways:
- Understanding the societal perceptions of power, authority, and influence in the context of gender and race.
- The importance of recognizing that you can be powerful, have authority and influence people by creating relationships.
- The importance of having a strong support system for maintaining personal power and overcoming self-doubt.
- The need for women to support each other and work together for collective success and empowerment.
What You Will Learn in This Episode:
- [02:00] Nola’s educational journey, the evolution of her career from law practice to DE&I work, and the pivotal moments that led to her current role.
- [08:12] DEI initiatives at Holmes Murphy and the impact of having a dedicated focus on these efforts.
- [11:40] She shares her perspectives on the power, authority, and influence concepts.
- [17:34] Nola reminisces about her early career experiences and how her understanding of power has evolved.
- [20:01] The role of supportive relationships and self-care practices in maintaining personal power and confidence in leadership.
- [24:18] The importance of unifying and collaborating among women to drive collective success and change.
Connect with Nola:
Books Recommendations:
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HOST INFO:
Sabine Gedeon is a dynamic force in the world of leadership and personal development. As the Founder of Transformed Leadership Institute and CEO of Gedeon Enterprises, Sabine leverages nearly 20 years of experience to guide clients in both startups and Fortune 500 companies. Her unique approach combines human-centered principles with tech-enabled solutions, delivering customized programs for leaders at all levels to tackle crucial leadership and talent development challenges.
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ADDITIONAL SUPPORT:
Download Free Resources - https://sabinegedeon/gifts
Get Coaching Support: https://meetwithsabine.as.me/Discovery
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Are you tired of playing smalland ready to step confidently
into your greatness and shareyour unique brilliance with the
world?
Well, you're in the right place.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI've dedicated nearly two
decades empowering individualsand leaders as they confidently
navigate the twists and turns oflife and career transitions.
If you're seeking direction,connection, or just a little
(00:22):
push to play bigger, considerthis podcast, your VIP path to a
community that genuinelyunderstands your journey.
Join me every week for candidconversations and practical
guidance designed to help younavigate the challenges of life
and business, foster a growthmindset, and cultivate
meaningful connections.
It's time to embrace yourinherent power, define your
(00:44):
unique purpose, and prosper inevery aspect of your life.
Let's get started.
Sabine (00:55):
Hello and welcome I'm your host, Sabine Gideon, and
I'm excited to be back againthis week with another episode
on the series of Women in Power.
Of course, I've brought you anamazing guest this week to share
her experiences, both with powerand in general.
Nola, welcome to the show.
I'm so excited to have youhere..
(01:16):
I'm going to tell the audience alittle bit about you, but I want
you to be able to share in yourown words, your career journey.
As the chief diversity officerand a member of the legal
department for Holmes Murphy,Nola Cartmill is responsible for
leading the company's diversity,equity and inclusion strategy
and making strategicrecommendations to the executive
committee.
Wow.
(01:36):
Nola.
Thank you.
Nola (01:40):
Thank you for having me.
Sabine (01:41):
Yeah, I'm happy to have you here.
I would love for you to, to walkus through your career journey
and, and some of the, thecatalyst because you're, you're
like on career number two, maybeeven three at this stage.
And so I'd love to hear, youknow, what, how you started and
the work that you're doingtoday.
Nola (01:59):
So I would say, and I think maybe we'll get into some
of this later, but I was reallythe type of person who was like
on a path.
So I always knew that I wantedto be a lawyer.
And so that really informed howI went about where I was going
to go to college and all ofthose things.
I went to the University ofIowa, originally from Iowa.
The thought around that was thatI wasn't going to spend a lot of
money on my undergrad because Iknew that I was going to have
(02:21):
more expenses, uh, through lawschool, um, in terms of where I
went to law school.
I thought I was going to go tothe University of Iowa.
there are a lot of peoplethroughout my University of Iowa
experience, uh, that really sortof provided that mentorship that
I really needed.
I don't come from a family who,who are lawyers, and so to help
navigate that, um, I was able toget a free Kaplan course through
(02:42):
my pre law advisor, um, whichhelped me get a better LSAT
score, and then I was able toget some sort of free
applications that opened up somemoney to apply to maybe some
schools that were more richschools, um, and I really didn't
think I was going to apply toany more Ivy League, but I got
something in the mail, uh, fromHarvard saying they had a
children's advocate.
advocacy, um, program.
(03:02):
And I was thinking to myself, Iwas like, okay, uh, Ivy League
can't be all that bad.
So I was able to apply to somedifferent colleges, uh, and, uh,
law schools.
And, uh, Dean Elena Kagan at thetime was now Supreme Court
Justice.
So, so just the people you wereable to interact with.
I still wasn't sure about EastCoast people, um, but I gave it
a shot anyway and ended up, hada great experience, uh, out
(03:24):
there at Harvard.
And then after my first year oflaw school, interestingly
enough, you know, I had spentreally my whole life sort of
navigating just getting from thenext point to the next point.
And so I was always just makingmyself whatever I needed to be
to get to the next point.
Um, and so that was probablytrue.
When I first arrived, I was sortof like, I have all these
student loans from Harvard andI'm just going to like put my
(03:47):
head down, do the work and makemoney so that I can pay off
these loans.
Um, and it was probably a littlebit into my career at, um, well,
Probably a little bit furtherinto my career than I would have
hoped it would be and hopehoping that I can help others
not have it be that that farinto their career, but I
realized that I was sort ofselling myself short and really
selling the firm short on what Ican provide what I could offer
(04:09):
when I was just trying to belike everyone else.
Um, I practice employment lawand so obviously we would get
complaints in and just having adifferent perspective and being
able to speak about wheresomeone might be coming from.
Um, and so being able to helpour clients navigate those
issues with their employees andsay like, hey, This might not be
(04:29):
illegal, but this is whereyou're coming from, and this is
where you're coming from, andhow do we meld that and get to a
better place overall?
Um, and so I did that for alittle over a decade, 12, 13
years, say somewhere aroundthere.
Probably by year 10, I realizedthat I don't know if Filling my
hours in six minute incrementsis really the life that I want
to lead.
Um, and so this was probably prepandemic, but I've always been
(04:52):
one that just goes down thepath.
And so like, I had sort of likein the world of law, I'd reached
the pinnacle.
I'd made partner at my firm andthought to myself, you know, Why
are you wanting more?
You've sort of done it and notreally knowing what I could,
what else I could do at the lawlaw degree.
Also, I have a family who'ssuper proud, right?
um, but also are the type ofpeople.
(05:12):
I have a mom and a dad who haveboth been under jobs for well
over 20 years, maybe 30 years bynow.
And so people in my family don'tleave jobs uh, just because they
wanna do something different.
Um, and, but finally at postpandemic, my dad had a terrible
bout of Covid, was in thehospital.
The doctors were telling us,like maybe he was going to die,
just really started reevaluating my life out of
(05:33):
miscarriage, um, and reallystarted thinking, hey, like this
isn't all that life is about,and I should be able to go
somewhere every day.
My best friend actually says,does, you know, not everything's
going to fill your cup, but howmuch does it drain it?
Um, and work was draining mycup.
Um, and so, uh, decided to lookfor something different,
(05:53):
actually had an opportunity.
Where and my former partner isgeneral counsel at Holmes
Murphy, uh, was a reference forme.
He said, okay, I wasn't going toapproach from the firm, but now
that you're looking forsomething, we are standing up
our diversity, equity, inclusionprogram.
You're a great talent.
I think that you would be agreat addition to the team.
Would you be willing to take ameeting?
(06:13):
I mean, I had already accepted.
I was moving out of town.
I was selling my house.
Um, but again, and it.
And I'm a super loyal person.
So I was like, I've already toldthese people, I'm coming.
Um, what am I going to do?
But again, sort of realizinglike, Oh, like this feels right
to have meetings.
So I had the meeting, um, had agreat experience.
Holmes Murphy has a greatculture.
Um, I was really going to beable to build something from
(06:35):
scratch and really have a lot ofpower to design what that looked
like for folks.
And it just was a reallyexciting yet scary opportunity.
Um, decided to stay here.
Perfect, uh, you know what theysay, um, when we make plans, God
laughs, um, because it turnedout to be perfect about a week
after I accepted the job atHolmes Murphy, I found out that
I was expecting again, um, andso I did not have to uproot my
(06:59):
entire life, got to stay in myhouse, uh, and that is how I
ended up at the That's the chiefdiversity officer at Holmes
Murphy.
So I know that that was sort ofa long introduction, but, uh,
that is how, that is how I gotwhere I'm at.
Yeah,
Sabine (07:11):
that is perfect.
And I love.
I love the multifacetedness ofit, right?
So there were there were thingsthat you just kind of let flow
and let happen.
And then there are things thatyou were intentional about.
And even when you like hitcrossroads, like the decisions
came from what feels right rightnow.
So I think that's very importantto highlight because sometimes
(07:34):
we see people at the top of themountain, right?
And we don't know what it took,what those decisions were to
even get to that mountain.
Um, and you know.
There's no linear path.
There's no such thing as thislinear path, whether you're, you
know, going to the C suite oryou're starting your business.
Like, it's all about thosetwists and turns, and it's like
every decision that we makeleads to the next thing.
(07:56):
But it almost sounds like youare already...
Based on the work that you dotoday, like it's not a
deviation.
It's not a huge deviation fromwho you already were and what
you were doing.
It's just a differentenvironment.
Is that accurate?
Nola (08:11):
Yeah, I would say some people are like, oh, you were a
lawyer and now you're a chiefdiversity officer.
And I was like, it was really ashift.
I was doing some of the workinternally.
In fact, some of my colleaguesprobably wish I would have said
that.
you know, stood up a diversityconsulting practice and stayed
at the firm.
Um, but I sort of just wanted achange in environment.
And so that's what I got tochange an environment.
Um, I'm able to focus on myprimary client, obviously is
(08:32):
Holmes Murphy, and so I'm ableto really get in and understand
the culture of thatorganization.
But one of the parts of my jobthat I really like is the work
that I do with Ethos are.
Uh, partner company, um, and I'mstill able to have some of that
client facing role.
And so I work with other clientsas well, um, and go in and get
to figure out their business andwhat they're doing regarding D
and I, and help them sort offigure out what's next for them.
(08:54):
And again, it's not always aboutlike what I want their program
to be or what everyone else isdoing.
It's really about, uh, figuringout.
What they need to do.
And so to that point that youmade about what feels right,
sometimes D and I, it's alsoabout like, what feels right.
It has to be authentic to yourorganization or it's not going
to survive.
Sabine (09:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I was on, yeah, I was on thewebsite and you know, I love the
fact that there were employeetestimonials that was just like,
this is not a check, a check offthe box.
Type situation.
This is not a just lip service,right?
In terms of how DEI is valued atthe organization, that it is
actually lived and embedded inthe culture.
Um, and I'm sure that has a lotto do with the work that you've
(09:34):
been able to do.
And what, like the two yearsthat you've been there.
Nola (09:38):
Yeah, so I've been there about a year and a half.
And, you know, I like to tellpeople I didn't see it
completely from scratch.
They had some work going.
But I like to say that I wasable to come in, refine it, make
some tweaks and really justhaving someone that's dedicated
and focused on what we're doing.
And so, you know, I think we'reable to fail faster because we
have to understand that in life.
We all fail, but it's kind ofhow quickly we get back up and
(10:00):
get on the horse.
And so, um, really, I thinkhaving that focus and having
that person that can say like,Hey, let's try this.
Oh, wait, that didn't work.
Let's do it quickly.
Um, and when people are tryingto balance that with their
everyday job, maybe that doesn'thappen as quickly as it is able
to happen with me in house.
Sabine (10:16):
Yeah, we're just going to go ahead and let you own it
and say that it all hap it's,it's all this way because of
you.
Nola (10:23):
I will take that, although, uh, I am very humble
and I get that from my mom.
We were just having aconversation about it the other
day.
Sabine (10:30):
Okay, awesome.
So that, that brings me to, tothis next, uh, space, right?
As we're thinking about Women inpower and what that looks like.
And we were talking about thisbefore.
And certainly the audience hasheard me, um, you know, share my
views on power that we have.
We are in a society where weattribute leadership or we
(10:51):
attribute power.
We attribute.
Certain things to individualsbecause of their role or because
of the quote unquote perceivedauthority that this person may
have.
And so you've heard me say this,that leadership is innate, but
also I want to uncover or unpackour relationship with power
because I think it's, it'simportant because I think It
(11:13):
could be easy to wrap your mindaround the fact that leadership
is innate.
Um, but also power is an innatething that we all have access
to.
And so, as you think about, youknow, uh, these three words,
right?
So power, power, authority andinfluence.
So we'll start with, uh, how doyou perceive the differences
(11:33):
between the three and how wouldyou define them?
And then how has that shown upfor you?
Nola (11:40):
So I'll start with, I think, to me, in my mind, the
easiest one.
So influence, I really don'tthink that we necessarily assign
that to anyone, right?
Anyone can come in and beinfluential, and it really is
how you show up in the room.
I think the other two can havethat, but we don't See operated
like that as much and so power Ithink we are often assigning it
(12:01):
to people with the title, as yousaid, and that is not really the
way that power and you can askfor power you can gain power.
I.
recently been reading this bookcalled the I deconstructed and
just talking about, you know,how do we change organizations
and part of the conversation isabout power and sort of where it
lies and how we think about it.
(12:22):
And so I, I think that we canswitch how we just assign power.
Power is not just by the CEO oryour supervisor or your manager.
You have a lot of power and.
There are different kinds ofpower, right?
And so realizing that you haveyour own power that you can show
up in.
And then authority, I reallythink is Again, we assign it and
(12:44):
we say that like, Oh, asupervisor has authority or the
CEO has authority.
Um, but I really think it's theway in which we present our
ideas.
And, um, I don't want to sort ofgo into topics, but, uh,
particularly I think women don'tperceive themselves as having
authority.
Um, and so it is.
Uh, and probably people ofcolor, too.
(13:06):
And so perceiving that you'renot in a position to have
authority, um, and really alsoour society in many ways is set
up to assign power and authorityto a certain kind of person.
And so I think we need to takesome of those labels off, but
that's how I would see thedifference is probably a lot of
people think that they can haveinfluence and not a lot of
people think that they can havepower and
Sabine (13:25):
authority.
Yeah, I love that.
I feel like every Every stagethat I've been in, like it helps
me redefine or define the threea little better.
as I've been thinking throughthis, it's almost like I relate
them to the B do have right.
So, um, power is, is just.
We are powerful.
We are powerful human beings.
(13:46):
Like if you strip titles, if youstrip corporate America, you
just look at the animal kingdom,you look at nature, you look at
society, right?
We are the only ones who havelike a mind and a will and the
ability to create from a visionwithin ourselves.
Like we create.
things, right?
So to me, I'm looking at powerfrom a perspective of at the
(14:08):
very basic personal power.
We have authority or we're givenauthority.
And then influence is really,you know, what we're able to do
with it.
The one thing that I've come torealize is that the the biggest
difference between how womendemonstrate power or authority
or influence or any of thatcapacity is that it is with
(14:29):
right.
It's about bringing peopletogether the natural nurturers
in us, whereas men, the waythey're that they're able to
express it is really power over.
And I think for a very longtime, when we see power in the
media or when we see powerreflected back in the people of
position, it's always thisdominating force, right?
(14:53):
That's not our natural thing.
Like we're, we don't operatelike that.
And so it's a, it's a naturaltendency to be like, okay, well,
if that's power.
I don't want I don't want anyparts to that, right?
Because that's not how Ioperate.
And so we gravitate towards whatdoes it look like to be
influential, which I think is anatural talent and a skill too.
(15:14):
But I believe that you have todemonstrate all three.
You have to embrace all threebecause different situations are
going to require you to tap intowisdom from your place of power,
your place of authority, or yourplace of influence.
Nola (15:30):
I really like that.
I hope you don't have itcopyrighted because I'm going to
steal it.
Um, that's, that's a reallyimportant point.
And, you know, just frompersonal experience, I will tell
you now that I'm in thecorporate America, right, we do
all of these assessments andpersonality things.
And so I've spent far more timethinking about how I show up as
a person, what my personalityis.
(15:51):
And we were actually sitting inour executive committee and we
have enterprise leaders that allmeet together and we did this.
exercise based on our strengths,and we only were focusing on the
top five.
All of my top five are inrelationship building, um, which
perhaps in my current job makesa lot of sense, but I'm like,
how was I a lawyer if I, like, Iam not, you know, influencing
(16:12):
and all of these things that wethink of as power and, you know,
I've done the colors before and,you know, it's sort of, You
know, if you're in a room ofleaders, if you're not a red,
people are, you know, like, Oh,like I'm a red and everyone sort
of holds that as some type oftrophy.
And I'm like, Oh, like I'm alittle bit more of a blue or a
green, but to your point, um,you can have power by creating
relationships.
(16:32):
Or you can be powerful bycreating relationships.
You can have authority.
By creating relationships andyou can influence people by
creating those relationships andso recognizing that those three
things don't have to be done oneway even though that is what has
been modeled on our society andthere's probably a lot of things
that have been modeled on oursociety recognizing that you do
(16:53):
not have to fit the mold inorder to How to do and be those
things.
Sabine (16:57):
Absolutely.
I love that.
When do you think your first, Iguess, introduction to, uh, what
might have been perceived likethe, the, either the soft power
or like that real dominatingpower.
Like, if you think back to likethe earlier experiences that
you've had, like, is thereanything that stands out in your
(17:19):
mind that like says, okay, thisis where.
This is where I gave power,like, meaning X, or this is what
made me realize that, oh, that'swhat it means to demonstrate
power.
Nola (17:34):
So, it's kind of a tough question, but I'll sort of go
back.
In my earlier career, I workedwith this partner, um, who
obviously ended up being mypartner, but, uh, at that time,
I was an associate.
And he would often come in, andI think because, The way in
which I was operating power atthat time was only soft power,
right?
I didn't feel like I had anypower as an associate and he
(17:54):
would, I would go into hisoffice.
We talked about something and hewas like, Nola, tell me, do you
want to be Batman or Robin?
Um, and I think what he thoughtis that I wanted to be Robin
because I was not exercisingthis, you know, I'm just going
to tell you like it is.
Um, and I am just more of a.
(18:15):
I'm a deferential person when Ifeel like somebody else has more
power.
And so I try to influence thedecision.
And so I think he probably, toyour point about people seeing
it as weak, did not see it asreally me trying to sort of
affect the result or like what,uh, you know, Um, method we were
going to take in a case, likewhat way we were going to go,
(18:35):
what was going to be our theory.
Um, I was having conversationsand feel, feeling like I was
influencing that, but he wantedme to come in and say, I was
right.
I'm right.
This is the way we should gobecause of X, Y, and Z.
And so I think that reallydefined power for me in
recognizing like, at that pointin time, and even still today, I
(18:56):
would say, I don't need to beBatman.
Uh, and Also, Batman doesn'thave to be the way we think of
Batman, right?
Um, and so in many ways, uh, Iprobably now today and at that
point in my career, I wouldn'thave seen it that way.
I really did think I was Robin.
I thought he wanted me to beBatman.
(19:16):
And so I was trying to fitmyself into this, uh, role that
he wanted me to be, which isjust not who I am as a person.
Um, but now I see that I can beBatman.
Uh, with what other people mightperceive as relevant, and I'm
just comfortable and own that.
Sabine (19:32):
I love that.
I love that.
And speaking of, so how do youmaintain personal power over
time?
Is there anything that you do orany, any individuals you
surround yourself with to remindyou and to hold that mirror up
to show you in those momentswhen you don't feel powerful,
when you don't even feel likeRobin, um, that you are
(19:53):
reminded, you know, this is whoI am.
This is.
This is what's in me, and thisis, this is my greatness, pretty
much.
Nola (20:01):
So I was, I'm glad you said people who surround you
because it's not necessarilyanything that I do, although
I'll get into something a littlebit that I do, but, uh, really
surrounding myself with greatrelationships.
I have a really tight knitfamily, particularly on my
mother's side.
I come from just a host ofstrong Black women, uh, and they
will not let you forget that youhave power in the world.
(20:21):
Um, and one of those people,which is Very interesting.
It's actually my younger sister.
Both of my sisters are verysupportive, but my younger
sister is just sort of this,like, own it.
You are a bad you know what, andyou should own that.
But I also have a group of,because I do think that it's
important, um, just because ifanyone else relies on family, I
think it's important to alwayshave somebody outside of family
(20:43):
too, right?
There are different dynamics.
And so I also have a couple textchains of other, uh, 30 to 40
year old Women lawyers, um, thatare sort of my rocks.
And when we have those moments,I have people with which I can
feel vulnerable and go to themand say, right, we can't always
walk into the room and likeadmit to the CEO that we don't
(21:04):
feel very powerful or that weare having imposter syndrome.
But I have those circles where Ican say, you know, I just don't
know, you know, somebody else'sLinkedIn profile, right?
Like I was viewing LinkedIn andthey look super impressive and I
have to show up to this placeand like, what am I going to do?
And I have people who are like,Okay, like I'll give you your
moment and your pity party fortwo seconds.
(21:25):
And now I'm gonna tell you whoyou really are.
And it's really just a reminder,right?
We know who we really are.
Almost all of us know who wereally are.
Another thing is at one point inmy life, I think, again, I was
in that sort of, I need a shift.
And I went to therapy, becausepart of it was owning Why I
understanding really why I feelthe way about myself and tools
(21:48):
and tricks to get over thatbecause some people and it might
not be that deep for some peopleit was that deep for me that I
really needed to work on why Ifelt that way and learn tools
and tricks to take myself to thenext level because I was holding
myself.
own self back.
Um, and then finally, I am a bigPeloton fan.
Um, and I think that they havegreat instructors.
(22:08):
And there are a few instructorsthat like, I just always leave
every ride or walk or run oryoga session with like a little
tidbit.
And, um, those are the types ofthings that I repeat.
So I'm not an affirmation personnecessarily, but I can repeat
those things to myself.
And I share them with all thewomen around me too, so that
like, we can really feel.
Great about ourselves and feelthat we are operating in a
(22:30):
space, even though we might notalways feel like it, we are
powerful and wonderful and madeto be in the positions that we
are.
Sabine (22:37):
Yeah.
I love that.
And you, you hit on, uh, what Iwould have asked as an, uh, as
another question, I think whenit comes to, you know, power and
exercising power and authorityand influence and feeling
comfortable and confident aboutit is.
We have to be surrounded byother people who are okay with
us exercising it and showing upas that and also mirroring it
(23:01):
for us.
And I think, you know, one ofthe areas that we as women, um,
really have room for is Reallybuilding that unity, um, really
moving away from, and, and I'm,I'm not saying this is women's
fault.
I know society has done its jobto create that competitive, uh,
(23:21):
mindset and that competitiveenvironment.
But it's almost like I have thisbelief and it's not just my
belief, but when we see someoneand we're like, Oh my gosh,
she's a powerhouse or, Oh mygosh, she is da, da, da, da, da,
right.
The sometimes the immediatething is, Oh, but I'm not, or
this is the deficiency in me, orthis is out of that.
And I'm always like, no, no, no,no, no, you could not even see
(23:44):
her greatness.
You could not see herpowerhouseness.
If it were not in you.
And I just feel like we're in aspace, especially women where
Um, the need to unify and theneed to collaborate the need to
come together is becoming moreand more pressing, right?
Like this, this place that wemay have been for previous, uh,
(24:05):
generations where it's, it, itis about competition or maybe
not even competition, butisolation.
It's almost like it's becomevery clear when we come
together.
Stuff happens change happens.
Nola (24:17):
Yeah, I really agree with that.
It's sort of, uh, just to use,like, a very recent example, I
think some people have beencomparing, like, Beyonce's tour
and Taylor Swift's tour, right?
If they both were, they aren'tthinking about each other,
right?
Like, they might, but not in anegative way, right?
Like, they're like, you could befully successful.
They're both selling out crowds.
Uh, you know, charging.
(24:39):
Tons of money for tickets andbeing super successful.
Um, and so really understandingthat, you know, the sun shines,
the moon shines.
We're not, we're not all thesame, but we can all shine.
Um, and sort of, you hadmentioned the women's suffrage
movement.
And so I feel like I wouldn't bea DEI officer if I didn't talk
about the intersectionality ofall of this.
(24:59):
But I mean, there was someconflict at the time and really
some And so I think that aswomen, we have to be careful not
to do that.
And so, you know, it was sort oflike, hey, well, I don't want to
fight for black women because Ireally want the thing that I'm
trying to get.
Um, and I think we've seen someof that in recent society and
recognizing that no, like we canall unify and fight for the same
things and we don't need tocreate division amongst
(25:21):
ourselves because we reallyhave.
We're more powerful togetherthan we are apart.
And so recognizing that, youknow, Hey, there might be
someone, you know, superfabulous.
And I, even in this new role,right, because I am new to the,
uh, diversity space andrecognizing that I don't have to
compare myself to another chiefdiverse.
the officer.
(25:41):
Hey, why don't I have aconversation like we can do
better things together?
Um, and we can lean on eachother's experiences.
And I dare to say that, youknow, I would hope that even
someone who's been doing thisfor a long time can learn
something for me that's comingin with fresh eyes and a new
perspective.
And so there is the sharing ofboth ways.
And so Recognizing that there issome intersectionality and we
(26:02):
can create division amongstourselves.
Um, but everyone has anopportunity to shine their space
for all of us in this world.
Sabine (26:08):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I cannot have said that better.
And so I just want to getthrough these, uh, this split
session really, really quick,knowing what you know about
yourself today and all of yourexperiences.
If you could go back to ayounger version of yourself and
give her a piece of advice, whatmight that be?
Uh,
Nola (26:26):
this is not going to be really serious.
I would tell myself to have morefun for a long time.
I just.
was doing the next thing to getme to the next step.
And as I look back at some of myexperiences, like someone was
like, would you do college overagain?
And how would you do itdifferently?
I would have more fun.
Sabine (26:41):
I love that.
I love that.
And then looking ahead when you,you know, you've done all the
work, you've made all the impactand you are looking back at your
life.
What do you want that narrativeto be?
Nola (26:52):
I want people to say about me, whatever space I showed up
in, whether it's in my role as amom, as a partner, as a sister,
family member, coworker, chiefdiversity officer, community
supporter, that I, everyenvironment I came in, I left it
better than what I found
Sabine (27:10):
it.
I love that.
And then lastly, has there beena book or books that have been
pivotal for you in your growth,in your success?
Nola (27:20):
I have to say Michelle Obama's becoming and I watched
all of the podcasts that she didwith various folks after that,
but I have a very similar story.
Unfortunately, I didn't marryBarack.
And so like my story didn't leadme to the White House, but a
very similar story that she has,you know, sort of just doing the
next right thing to get her andit.
(27:40):
Recognizing and I think reallyreading her books, uh, becoming
in particular, but her otherbook as well helped me sort of
step out of that and realizethat there could be a path that
doesn't look like the path thatyou maybe thought it did in the
fifth grade.
And that's okay.
Sabine (27:54):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, thank you so much, Nola.
Uh, if the audience is lookingto connect with you, where do
you hang out?
What's, what's the best place toget in touch with you?
You can find me
Nola (28:05):
on LinkedIn.
Um, and you can also call intoHolmes Murphy, just a regular
line.
They'll, they'll find me, sendyou to my number.
And so, uh, that's probably thebest way.
Sabine (28:16):
All right.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much, Nola.
Thank you for your time, yourwisdom for sharing your journey
for those of you who are tuningin this week.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Uh, be sure to connect withNola.
Let her know that you heard heron the, podcast with that.
I will be back next week withanother amazing, a talented
powerhouse.
Take care and have a great restof the day.
(28:38):
Hope you enjoyed this week'sepisode.
If you found today'sconversation helpful, or got a
piece of insight that you planto implement in your life, I'd
love to hear from you.
Connect with me on LinkedIn atSabine Gideon and send me a
message, or feel free to leave areview on either Apple or
Spotify.
I also invite you to share thisepisode with anyone in your
network, another powerhouse,possibly who you think might
(29:00):
benefit from today'sconversation.
Lastly, as always, any links,any resources, or any upcoming
training is included in the shownotes.
So be sure to check that beforeyou leave today until we chat
again, have a blessed andpowerful week.
Are you tired of playing smalland ready to step confidently
into your greatness and shareyour unique brilliance with the
world?
Well, you're in the right place.
I'm your host Sabine Gideon, andI've dedicated nearly two
decades empowering individualsand leaders as they confidently
navigate the twists and turns oflife and career transitions.
If you're seeking direction,connection, or just a little
(00:22):
push to play bigger, considerthis podcast, your VIP path to a
community that genuinelyunderstands your journey.
Join me every week for candidconversations and practical
guidance designed to help younavigate the challenges of life
and business, foster a growthmindset, and cultivate
meaningful connections.
It's time to embrace yourinherent power, define your
(00:44):
unique purpose, and prosper inevery aspect of your life.
Let's get started.
Sabine (00:55):
Hello and welcome I'm your host, Sabine Gideon, and
I'm excited to be back againthis week with another episode
on the series of Women in Power.
Of course, I've brought you anamazing guest this week to share
her experiences, both with powerand in general.
Nola, welcome to the show.
I'm so excited to have youhere..
(01:16):
I'm going to tell the audience alittle bit about you, but I want
you to be able to share in yourown words, your career journey.
As the chief diversity officerand a member of the legal
department for Holmes Murphy,Nola Cartmill is responsible for
leading the company's diversity,equity and inclusion strategy
and making strategicrecommendations to the executive
committee.
Wow.
(01:36):
Nola.
Thank you.
Nola (01:40):
Thank you for having me.
Sabine (01:41):
Yeah, I'm happy to have you here.
I would love for you to, to walkus through your career journey
and, and some of the, thecatalyst because you're, you're
like on career number two, maybeeven three at this stage.
And so I'd love to hear, youknow, what, how you started and
the work that you're doingtoday.
Nola (01:59):
So I would say, and I think maybe we'll get into some
of this later, but I was reallythe type of person who was like
on a path.
So I always knew that I wantedto be a lawyer.
And so that really informed howI went about where I was going
to go to college and all ofthose things.
I went to the University ofIowa, originally from Iowa.
The thought around that was thatI wasn't going to spend a lot of
money on my undergrad because Iknew that I was going to have
(02:21):
more expenses, uh, through lawschool, um, in terms of where I
went to law school.
I thought I was going to go tothe University of Iowa.
there are a lot of peoplethroughout my University of Iowa
experience, uh, that really sortof provided that mentorship that
I really needed.
I don't come from a family who,who are lawyers, and so to help
navigate that, um, I was able toget a free Kaplan course through
(02:42):
my pre law advisor, um, whichhelped me get a better LSAT
score, and then I was able toget some sort of free
applications that opened up somemoney to apply to maybe some
schools that were more richschools, um, and I really didn't
think I was going to apply toany more Ivy League, but I got
something in the mail, uh, fromHarvard saying they had a
children's advocate.
advocacy, um, program.
(03:02):
And I was thinking to myself, Iwas like, okay, uh, Ivy League
can't be all that bad.
So I was able to apply to somedifferent colleges, uh, and, uh,
law schools.
And, uh, Dean Elena Kagan at thetime was now Supreme Court
Justice.
So, so just the people you wereable to interact with.
I still wasn't sure about EastCoast people, um, but I gave it
a shot anyway and ended up, hada great experience, uh, out
(03:24):
there at Harvard.
And then after my first year oflaw school, interestingly
enough, you know, I had spentreally my whole life sort of
navigating just getting from thenext point to the next point.
And so I was always just makingmyself whatever I needed to be
to get to the next point.
Um, and so that was probablytrue.
When I first arrived, I was sortof like, I have all these
student loans from Harvard andI'm just going to like put my
(03:47):
head down, do the work and makemoney so that I can pay off
these loans.
Um, and it was probably a littlebit into my career at, um, well,
Probably a little bit furtherinto my career than I would have
hoped it would be and hopehoping that I can help others
not have it be that that farinto their career, but I
realized that I was sort ofselling myself short and really
selling the firm short on what Ican provide what I could offer
(04:09):
when I was just trying to belike everyone else.
Um, I practice employment lawand so obviously we would get
complaints in and just having adifferent perspective and being
able to speak about wheresomeone might be coming from.
Um, and so being able to helpour clients navigate those
issues with their employees andsay like, hey, This might not be
(04:29):
illegal, but this is whereyou're coming from, and this is
where you're coming from, andhow do we meld that and get to a
better place overall?
Um, and so I did that for alittle over a decade, 12, 13
years, say somewhere aroundthere.
Probably by year 10, I realizedthat I don't know if Filling my
hours in six minute incrementsis really the life that I want
to lead.
Um, and so this was probably prepandemic, but I've always been
(04:52):
one that just goes down thepath.
And so like, I had sort of likein the world of law, I'd reached
the pinnacle.
I'd made partner at my firm andthought to myself, you know, Why
are you wanting more?
You've sort of done it and notreally knowing what I could,
what else I could do at the lawlaw degree.
Also, I have a family who'ssuper proud, right?
um, but also are the type ofpeople.
(05:12):
I have a mom and a dad who haveboth been under jobs for well
over 20 years, maybe 30 years bynow.
And so people in my family don'tleave jobs uh, just because they
wanna do something different.
Um, and, but finally at postpandemic, my dad had a terrible
bout of Covid, was in thehospital.
The doctors were telling us,like maybe he was going to die,
just really started reevaluating my life out of
(05:33):
miscarriage, um, and reallystarted thinking, hey, like this
isn't all that life is about,and I should be able to go
somewhere every day.
My best friend actually says,does, you know, not everything's
going to fill your cup, but howmuch does it drain it?
Um, and work was draining mycup.
Um, and so, uh, decided to lookfor something different,
(05:53):
actually had an opportunity.
Where and my former partner isgeneral counsel at Holmes
Murphy, uh, was a reference forme.
He said, okay, I wasn't going toapproach from the firm, but now
that you're looking forsomething, we are standing up
our diversity, equity, inclusionprogram.
You're a great talent.
I think that you would be agreat addition to the team.
Would you be willing to take ameeting?
(06:13):
I mean, I had already accepted.
I was moving out of town.
I was selling my house.
Um, but again, and it.
And I'm a super loyal person.
So I was like, I've already toldthese people, I'm coming.
Um, what am I going to do?
But again, sort of realizinglike, Oh, like this feels right
to have meetings.
So I had the meeting, um, had agreat experience.
Holmes Murphy has a greatculture.
Um, I was really going to beable to build something from
(06:35):
scratch and really have a lot ofpower to design what that looked
like for folks.
And it just was a reallyexciting yet scary opportunity.
Um, decided to stay here.
Perfect, uh, you know what theysay, um, when we make plans, God
laughs, um, because it turnedout to be perfect about a week
after I accepted the job atHolmes Murphy, I found out that
I was expecting again, um, andso I did not have to uproot my
(06:59):
entire life, got to stay in myhouse, uh, and that is how I
ended up at the That's the chiefdiversity officer at Holmes
Murphy.
So I know that that was sort ofa long introduction, but, uh,
that is how, that is how I gotwhere I'm at.
Yeah,
Sabine (07:11):
that is perfect.
And I love.
I love the multifacetedness ofit, right?
So there were there were thingsthat you just kind of let flow
and let happen.
And then there are things thatyou were intentional about.
And even when you like hitcrossroads, like the decisions
came from what feels right rightnow.
So I think that's very importantto highlight because sometimes
(07:34):
we see people at the top of themountain, right?
And we don't know what it took,what those decisions were to
even get to that mountain.
Um, and you know.
There's no linear path.
There's no such thing as thislinear path, whether you're, you
know, going to the C suite oryou're starting your business.
Like, it's all about thosetwists and turns, and it's like
every decision that we makeleads to the next thing.
(07:56):
But it almost sounds like youare already...
Based on the work that you dotoday, like it's not a
deviation.
It's not a huge deviation fromwho you already were and what
you were doing.
It's just a differentenvironment.
Is that accurate?
Nola (08:11):
Yeah, I would say some people are like, oh, you were a
lawyer and now you're a chiefdiversity officer.
And I was like, it was really ashift.
I was doing some of the workinternally.
In fact, some of my colleaguesprobably wish I would have said
that.
you know, stood up a diversityconsulting practice and stayed
at the firm.
Um, but I sort of just wanted achange in environment.
And so that's what I got tochange an environment.
Um, I'm able to focus on myprimary client, obviously is
(08:32):
Holmes Murphy, and so I'm ableto really get in and understand
the culture of thatorganization.
But one of the parts of my jobthat I really like is the work
that I do with Ethos are.
Uh, partner company, um, and I'mstill able to have some of that
client facing role.
And so I work with other clientsas well, um, and go in and get
to figure out their business andwhat they're doing regarding D
and I, and help them sort offigure out what's next for them.
(08:54):
And again, it's not always aboutlike what I want their program
to be or what everyone else isdoing.
It's really about, uh, figuringout.
What they need to do.
And so to that point that youmade about what feels right,
sometimes D and I, it's alsoabout like, what feels right.
It has to be authentic to yourorganization or it's not going
to survive.
Sabine (09:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I was on, yeah, I was on thewebsite and you know, I love the
fact that there were employeetestimonials that was just like,
this is not a check, a check offthe box.
Type situation.
This is not a just lip service,right?
In terms of how DEI is valued atthe organization, that it is
actually lived and embedded inthe culture.
Um, and I'm sure that has a lotto do with the work that you've
(09:34):
been able to do.
And what, like the two yearsthat you've been there.
Nola (09:38):
Yeah, so I've been there about a year and a half.
And, you know, I like to tellpeople I didn't see it
completely from scratch.
They had some work going.
But I like to say that I wasable to come in, refine it, make
some tweaks and really justhaving someone that's dedicated
and focused on what we're doing.
And so, you know, I think we'reable to fail faster because we
have to understand that in life.
We all fail, but it's kind ofhow quickly we get back up and
(10:00):
get on the horse.
And so, um, really, I thinkhaving that focus and having
that person that can say like,Hey, let's try this.
Oh, wait, that didn't work.
Let's do it quickly.
Um, and when people are tryingto balance that with their
everyday job, maybe that doesn'thappen as quickly as it is able
to happen with me in house.
Sabine (10:16):
Yeah, we're just going to go ahead and let you own it
and say that it all hap it's,it's all this way because of
you.
Nola (10:23):
I will take that, although, uh, I am very humble
and I get that from my mom.
We were just having aconversation about it the other
day.
Sabine (10:30):
Okay, awesome.
So that, that brings me to, tothis next, uh, space, right?
As we're thinking about Women inpower and what that looks like.
And we were talking about thisbefore.
And certainly the audience hasheard me, um, you know, share my
views on power that we have.
We are in a society where weattribute leadership or we
(10:51):
attribute power.
We attribute.
Certain things to individualsbecause of their role or because
of the quote unquote perceivedauthority that this person may
have.
And so you've heard me say this,that leadership is innate, but
also I want to uncover or unpackour relationship with power
because I think it's, it'simportant because I think It
(11:13):
could be easy to wrap your mindaround the fact that leadership
is innate.
Um, but also power is an innatething that we all have access
to.
And so, as you think about, youknow, uh, these three words,
right?
So power, power, authority andinfluence.
So we'll start with, uh, how doyou perceive the differences
(11:33):
between the three and how wouldyou define them?
And then how has that shown upfor you?
Nola (11:40):
So I'll start with, I think, to me, in my mind, the
easiest one.
So influence, I really don'tthink that we necessarily assign
that to anyone, right?
Anyone can come in and beinfluential, and it really is
how you show up in the room.
I think the other two can havethat, but we don't See operated
like that as much and so power Ithink we are often assigning it
(12:01):
to people with the title, as yousaid, and that is not really the
way that power and you can askfor power you can gain power.
I.
recently been reading this bookcalled the I deconstructed and
just talking about, you know,how do we change organizations
and part of the conversation isabout power and sort of where it
lies and how we think about it.
(12:22):
And so I, I think that we canswitch how we just assign power.
Power is not just by the CEO oryour supervisor or your manager.
You have a lot of power and.
There are different kinds ofpower, right?
And so realizing that you haveyour own power that you can show
up in.
And then authority, I reallythink is Again, we assign it and
(12:44):
we say that like, Oh, asupervisor has authority or the
CEO has authority.
Um, but I really think it's theway in which we present our
ideas.
And, um, I don't want to sort ofgo into topics, but, uh,
particularly I think women don'tperceive themselves as having
authority.
Um, and so it is.
Uh, and probably people ofcolor, too.
(13:06):
And so perceiving that you'renot in a position to have
authority, um, and really alsoour society in many ways is set
up to assign power and authorityto a certain kind of person.
And so I think we need to takesome of those labels off, but
that's how I would see thedifference is probably a lot of
people think that they can haveinfluence and not a lot of
people think that they can havepower and
Sabine (13:25):
authority.
Yeah, I love that.
I feel like every Every stagethat I've been in, like it helps
me redefine or define the threea little better.
as I've been thinking throughthis, it's almost like I relate
them to the B do have right.
So, um, power is, is just.
We are powerful.
We are powerful human beings.
(13:46):
Like if you strip titles, if youstrip corporate America, you
just look at the animal kingdom,you look at nature, you look at
society, right?
We are the only ones who havelike a mind and a will and the
ability to create from a visionwithin ourselves.
Like we create.
things, right?
So to me, I'm looking at powerfrom a perspective of at the
(14:08):
very basic personal power.
We have authority or we're givenauthority.
And then influence is really,you know, what we're able to do
with it.
The one thing that I've come torealize is that the the biggest
difference between how womendemonstrate power or authority
or influence or any of thatcapacity is that it is with
(14:29):
right.
It's about bringing peopletogether the natural nurturers
in us, whereas men, the waythey're that they're able to
express it is really power over.
And I think for a very longtime, when we see power in the
media or when we see powerreflected back in the people of
position, it's always thisdominating force, right?
(14:53):
That's not our natural thing.
Like we're, we don't operatelike that.
And so it's a, it's a naturaltendency to be like, okay, well,
if that's power.
I don't want I don't want anyparts to that, right?
Because that's not how Ioperate.
And so we gravitate towards whatdoes it look like to be
influential, which I think is anatural talent and a skill too.
(15:14):
But I believe that you have todemonstrate all three.
You have to embrace all threebecause different situations are
going to require you to tap intowisdom from your place of power,
your place of authority, or yourplace of influence.
Nola (15:30):
I really like that.
I hope you don't have itcopyrighted because I'm going to
steal it.
Um, that's, that's a reallyimportant point.
And, you know, just frompersonal experience, I will tell
you now that I'm in thecorporate America, right, we do
all of these assessments andpersonality things.
And so I've spent far more timethinking about how I show up as
a person, what my personalityis.
(15:51):
And we were actually sitting inour executive committee and we
have enterprise leaders that allmeet together and we did this.
exercise based on our strengths,and we only were focusing on the
top five.
All of my top five are inrelationship building, um, which
perhaps in my current job makesa lot of sense, but I'm like,
how was I a lawyer if I, like, Iam not, you know, influencing
(16:12):
and all of these things that wethink of as power and, you know,
I've done the colors before and,you know, it's sort of, You
know, if you're in a room ofleaders, if you're not a red,
people are, you know, like, Oh,like I'm a red and everyone sort
of holds that as some type oftrophy.
And I'm like, Oh, like I'm alittle bit more of a blue or a
green, but to your point, um,you can have power by creating
relationships.
(16:32):
Or you can be powerful bycreating relationships.
You can have authority.
By creating relationships andyou can influence people by
creating those relationships andso recognizing that those three
things don't have to be done oneway even though that is what has
been modeled on our society andthere's probably a lot of things
that have been modeled on oursociety recognizing that you do
(16:53):
not have to fit the mold inorder to How to do and be those
things.
Sabine (16:57):
Absolutely.
I love that.
When do you think your first, Iguess, introduction to, uh, what
might have been perceived likethe, the, either the soft power
or like that real dominatingpower.
Like, if you think back to likethe earlier experiences that
you've had, like, is thereanything that stands out in your
(17:19):
mind that like says, okay, thisis where.
This is where I gave power,like, meaning X, or this is what
made me realize that, oh, that'swhat it means to demonstrate
power.
Nola (17:34):
So, it's kind of a tough question, but I'll sort of go
back.
In my earlier career, I workedwith this partner, um, who
obviously ended up being mypartner, but, uh, at that time,
I was an associate.
And he would often come in, andI think because, The way in
which I was operating power atthat time was only soft power,
right?
I didn't feel like I had anypower as an associate and he
(17:54):
would, I would go into hisoffice.
We talked about something and hewas like, Nola, tell me, do you
want to be Batman or Robin?
Um, and I think what he thoughtis that I wanted to be Robin
because I was not exercisingthis, you know, I'm just going
to tell you like it is.
Um, and I am just more of a.
(18:15):
I'm a deferential person when Ifeel like somebody else has more
power.
And so I try to influence thedecision.
And so I think he probably, toyour point about people seeing
it as weak, did not see it asreally me trying to sort of
affect the result or like what,uh, you know, Um, method we were
going to take in a case, likewhat way we were going to go,
(18:35):
what was going to be our theory.
Um, I was having conversationsand feel, feeling like I was
influencing that, but he wantedme to come in and say, I was
right.
I'm right.
This is the way we should gobecause of X, Y, and Z.
And so I think that reallydefined power for me in
recognizing like, at that pointin time, and even still today, I
(18:56):
would say, I don't need to beBatman.
Uh, and Also, Batman doesn'thave to be the way we think of
Batman, right?
Um, and so in many ways, uh, Iprobably now today and at that
point in my career, I wouldn'thave seen it that way.
I really did think I was Robin.
I thought he wanted me to beBatman.
(19:16):
And so I was trying to fitmyself into this, uh, role that
he wanted me to be, which isjust not who I am as a person.
Um, but now I see that I can beBatman.
Uh, with what other people mightperceive as relevant, and I'm
just comfortable and own that.
Sabine (19:32):
I love that.
I love that.
And speaking of, so how do youmaintain personal power over
time?
Is there anything that you do orany, any individuals you
surround yourself with to remindyou and to hold that mirror up
to show you in those momentswhen you don't feel powerful,
when you don't even feel likeRobin, um, that you are
(19:53):
reminded, you know, this is whoI am.
This is.
This is what's in me, and thisis, this is my greatness, pretty
much.
Nola (20:01):
So I was, I'm glad you said people who surround you
because it's not necessarilyanything that I do, although
I'll get into something a littlebit that I do, but, uh, really
surrounding myself with greatrelationships.
I have a really tight knitfamily, particularly on my
mother's side.
I come from just a host ofstrong Black women, uh, and they
will not let you forget that youhave power in the world.
(20:21):
Um, and one of those people,which is Very interesting.
It's actually my younger sister.
Both of my sisters are verysupportive, but my younger
sister is just sort of this,like, own it.
You are a bad you know what, andyou should own that.
But I also have a group of,because I do think that it's
important, um, just because ifanyone else relies on family, I
think it's important to alwayshave somebody outside of family
(20:43):
too, right?
There are different dynamics.
And so I also have a couple textchains of other, uh, 30 to 40
year old Women lawyers, um, thatare sort of my rocks.
And when we have those moments,I have people with which I can
feel vulnerable and go to themand say, right, we can't always
walk into the room and likeadmit to the CEO that we don't
(21:04):
feel very powerful or that weare having imposter syndrome.
But I have those circles where Ican say, you know, I just don't
know, you know, somebody else'sLinkedIn profile, right?
Like I was viewing LinkedIn andthey look super impressive and I
have to show up to this placeand like, what am I going to do?
And I have people who are like,Okay, like I'll give you your
moment and your pity party fortwo seconds.
(21:25):
And now I'm gonna tell you whoyou really are.
And it's really just a reminder,right?
We know who we really are.
Almost all of us know who wereally are.
Another thing is at one point inmy life, I think, again, I was
in that sort of, I need a shift.
And I went to therapy, becausepart of it was owning Why I
understanding really why I feelthe way about myself and tools
(21:48):
and tricks to get over thatbecause some people and it might
not be that deep for some peopleit was that deep for me that I
really needed to work on why Ifelt that way and learn tools
and tricks to take myself to thenext level because I was holding
myself.
own self back.
Um, and then finally, I am a bigPeloton fan.
Um, and I think that they havegreat instructors.
(22:08):
And there are a few instructorsthat like, I just always leave
every ride or walk or run oryoga session with like a little
tidbit.
And, um, those are the types ofthings that I repeat.
So I'm not an affirmation personnecessarily, but I can repeat
those things to myself.
And I share them with all thewomen around me too, so that
like, we can really feel.
Great about ourselves and feelthat we are operating in a
(22:30):
space, even though we might notalways feel like it, we are
powerful and wonderful and madeto be in the positions that we
are.
Sabine (22:37):
Yeah.
I love that.
And you, you hit on, uh, what Iwould have asked as an, uh, as
another question, I think whenit comes to, you know, power and
exercising power and authorityand influence and feeling
comfortable and confident aboutit is.
We have to be surrounded byother people who are okay with
us exercising it and showing upas that and also mirroring it
(23:01):
for us.
And I think, you know, one ofthe areas that we as women, um,
really have room for is Reallybuilding that unity, um, really
moving away from, and, and I'm,I'm not saying this is women's
fault.
I know society has done its jobto create that competitive, uh,
(23:21):
mindset and that competitiveenvironment.
But it's almost like I have thisbelief and it's not just my
belief, but when we see someoneand we're like, Oh my gosh,
she's a powerhouse or, Oh mygosh, she is da, da, da, da, da,
right.
The sometimes the immediatething is, Oh, but I'm not, or
this is the deficiency in me, orthis is out of that.
And I'm always like, no, no, no,no, no, you could not even see
(23:44):
her greatness.
You could not see herpowerhouseness.
If it were not in you.
And I just feel like we're in aspace, especially women where
Um, the need to unify and theneed to collaborate the need to
come together is becoming moreand more pressing, right?
Like this, this place that wemay have been for previous, uh,
(24:05):
generations where it's, it, itis about competition or maybe
not even competition, butisolation.
It's almost like it's becomevery clear when we come
together.
Stuff happens change happens.
Nola (24:17):
Yeah, I really agree with that.
It's sort of, uh, just to use,like, a very recent example, I
think some people have beencomparing, like, Beyonce's tour
and Taylor Swift's tour, right?
If they both were, they aren'tthinking about each other,
right?
Like, they might, but not in anegative way, right?
Like, they're like, you could befully successful.
They're both selling out crowds.
Uh, you know, charging.
(24:39):
Tons of money for tickets andbeing super successful.
Um, and so really understandingthat, you know, the sun shines,
the moon shines.
We're not, we're not all thesame, but we can all shine.
Um, and sort of, you hadmentioned the women's suffrage
movement.
And so I feel like I wouldn't bea DEI officer if I didn't talk
about the intersectionality ofall of this.
(24:59):
But I mean, there was someconflict at the time and really
some And so I think that aswomen, we have to be careful not
to do that.
And so, you know, it was sort oflike, hey, well, I don't want to
fight for black women because Ireally want the thing that I'm
trying to get.
Um, and I think we've seen someof that in recent society and
recognizing that no, like we canall unify and fight for the same
things and we don't need tocreate division amongst
(25:21):
ourselves because we reallyhave.
We're more powerful togetherthan we are apart.
And so recognizing that, youknow, Hey, there might be
someone, you know, superfabulous.
And I, even in this new role,right, because I am new to the,
uh, diversity space andrecognizing that I don't have to
compare myself to another chiefdiverse.
the officer.
(25:41):
Hey, why don't I have aconversation like we can do
better things together?
Um, and we can lean on eachother's experiences.
And I dare to say that, youknow, I would hope that even
someone who's been doing thisfor a long time can learn
something for me that's comingin with fresh eyes and a new
perspective.
And so there is the sharing ofboth ways.
And so Recognizing that there issome intersectionality and we
(26:02):
can create division amongstourselves.
Um, but everyone has anopportunity to shine their space
for all of us in this world.
Sabine (26:08):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I cannot have said that better.
And so I just want to getthrough these, uh, this split
session really, really quick,knowing what you know about
yourself today and all of yourexperiences.
If you could go back to ayounger version of yourself and
give her a piece of advice, whatmight that be?
Uh,
Nola (26:26):
this is not going to be really serious.
I would tell myself to have morefun for a long time.
I just.
was doing the next thing to getme to the next step.
And as I look back at some of myexperiences, like someone was
like, would you do college overagain?
And how would you do itdifferently?
I would have more fun.
Sabine (26:41):
I love that.
I love that.
And then looking ahead when you,you know, you've done all the
work, you've made all the impactand you are looking back at your
life.
What do you want that narrativeto be?
Nola (26:52):
I want people to say about me, whatever space I showed up
in, whether it's in my role as amom, as a partner, as a sister,
family member, coworker, chiefdiversity officer, community
supporter, that I, everyenvironment I came in, I left it
better than what I found
Sabine (27:10):
it.
I love that.
And then lastly, has there beena book or books that have been
pivotal for you in your growth,in your success?
Nola (27:20):
I have to say Michelle Obama's becoming and I watched
all of the podcasts that she didwith various folks after that,
but I have a very similar story.
Unfortunately, I didn't marryBarack.
And so like my story didn't leadme to the White House, but a
very similar story that she has,you know, sort of just doing the
next right thing to get her andit.
(27:40):
Recognizing and I think reallyreading her books, uh, becoming
in particular, but her otherbook as well helped me sort of
step out of that and realizethat there could be a path that
doesn't look like the path thatyou maybe thought it did in the
fifth grade.
And that's okay.
Sabine (27:54):
I love that.
I love that.
Well, thank you so much, Nola.
Uh, if the audience is lookingto connect with you, where do
you hang out?
What's, what's the best place toget in touch with you?
You can find me
Nola (28:05):
on LinkedIn.
Um, and you can also call intoHolmes Murphy, just a regular
line.
They'll, they'll find me, sendyou to my number.
And so, uh, that's probably thebest way.
Sabine (28:16):
All right.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much, Nola.
Thank you for your time, yourwisdom for sharing your journey
for those of you who are tuningin this week.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Uh, be sure to connect withNola.
Let her know that you heard heron the, podcast with that.
I will be back next week withanother amazing, a talented
powerhouse.
Take care and have a great restof the day.
(28:38):
Hope you enjoyed this week'sepisode.
If you found today'sconversation helpful, or got a
piece of insight that you planto implement in your life, I'd
love to hear from you.
Connect with me on LinkedIn atSabine Gideon and send me a
message, or feel free to leave areview on either Apple or
Spotify.
I also invite you to share thisepisode with anyone in your
network, another powerhouse,possibly who you think might
(29:00):
benefit from today'sconversation.
Lastly, as always, any links,any resources, or any upcoming
training is included in the shownotes.
So be sure to check that beforeyou leave today until we chat
again, have a blessed andpowerful week.
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