Signs of Spring and Gabe's Compost Craze

We're talking about the equinox, early signs of spring in our garden, and Gabe's garden obsession: compost!

Episode Transcript

Gabe Long (00:05):
Welcome to leafing out Episode Six podcasts about
gardening. I'm Gabe.

Rebecca (00:11):
I'm Rebecca.

Gabe Long (00:14):
And we're not experts. We're amateur
podcasters and amateur gardenerssharing what we learn as we
learn it on our gardeningjourney. And today we're talking
about, we're talking

Rebecca (00:23):
about first signs of spring. And composting,
composting gates favoritesubject. If you want to have a
lot of fun at a cocktail party,you just get cornered by Gabe
and let him talk to you for 30minutes about composting whether
you like it or not. That'sright.

Gabe Long (00:40):
Um, all right, Rebecca. Well, I feel like you
have a really great love ofspring. I mean, who doesn't love
Spring, but I feel like you havegiven me a new appreciation of
it. And you You talk a lot aboutthe way the light changes in
February and how that's sort ofthe first little inklings of
spring for you. So I'm curious,what are some of your favorite

(01:02):
things about spring water,things you're noticing right
now?

Rebecca (01:04):
It's true. I really love springtime. I think it's
because my birthday is in lateApril. And when I was a little
kid, I used to always know whenthe daffodils were blooming.
This was in New Jersey, when thedaffodils were blooming, I would
think now it's almost mybirthday. It was like a romantic
notion that I had as a kid orsomething. It's, they're here,
they're signaling that it'salmost my birthday. But it is

(01:27):
fun to have a birthday aroundlike cherry blossom season and
when things are starting toreally get showy, and it's full
on spring. But today, we're notquite there yet, at least not
here in New England right now.
As we record this, we're just afew days before the first actual
day of spring, the springequinox, which is March 20. I

(01:48):
was just researching the theequinox. And I'm so bad at
science that I always forgetthis kind of stuff. And every
time I Google it, I'm like, ooh,all over again. But for those
who don't know, Equinox, whatdoes Equinox translate to gay
people night?

Gabe Long (02:07):
Equal? Equal is equal and Knox is night in? I'm going
to go with Latin, maybe Greek?
I'm not sure.

Rebecca (02:13):
I think that would probably be Latin on the spring
equinox. They're equal amountsof daylight and sunlight,
daylight and nighttime. Oh, mygoodness. It's the day that the
northern hemisphere actuallystarts tilting toward the sun.
So on March 20, if you're wherewe are in the US, the sun is

(02:35):
going to rise due east andactually set do West, which it
doesn't do year round. I justthought that was kind of cool. I
don't know. It feels kind ofwitchy or something. Oh,
totally, you know, totally. Butyeah, it's just a nice time of
year. I really love seeing thefirst snow drops come up, out
back and I didn't realize thatthe snow drops have a really

(02:57):
nice scent. You really have to Ionly notice this because one as
I was like trying to brush theleaf litter off around them, I
broke off one of them and pickedit up and it has like a really
lovely, floral, clean smell. Butyou would have to if you don't
want to break off a flower you'dhave to really get on your hands
and knees ease your nose inthere because it's not very

(03:20):
potent but it is really lovelysmelling.

Gabe Long (03:24):
What are your other first signs of spring that you
love? I mean, the Witch Hazel'sthe thing that comes to mind.

Rebecca (03:28):
Yeah, I mean, our Witch Hazel has been blooming since
what mid February and that isjust such a gift like everyone
should have a witch hazel. Theythere are a bunch of which I
should say there are a bunch ofwitchhazel is that bloom at
different times? I think the STSnative blooms in late fall,
right? Oh yeah. But well, theone we have is Hama Melis
hammer, MLS intermedia Arnauldpromise. But the witchhazel is

(03:53):
just such a gift. Because it'slike the only thing blooming in
February and it must kind ofbloom as soon as as soon as
there starts getting to beenough light. I'm going on a
total tangent here. But we wererecently doing some work at a
local farm. And they do alltheir farming in greenhouses.

(04:13):
And they were talking about howtheir plants kind of, you know,
wake up and start really thegrowing season for them really
starts around February 15. Isthat what they said? Yeah, 15th
Because that's the point atwhich there starts to be the
days start to be long enoughthat the plants are like all
right time just trying to getstarted. Which was cool to hear

(04:35):
just because like we think aboutit, those of us who are not
farmers, you know, think aboutspring coming when the weather
gets really warm and weassociate the warmth with the
plants waking up. But so much ofit is actually about the amount
of daylight in the day. Ithought it was just comforting
to hear that and think about thelike micro seasons within

(04:56):
seasons and how even kind ofwhat we think of as the middle
of winter During terms of thefreezing weather is a time when
the light is changing so muchthat plants are able to start
growing in a totally differentway. I just thought that was so
cool.

Gabe Long (05:12):
Yes, I've heard farmers refer to the period when
there's fewer than 10 hours oflight per day is the Persephone
period, because that's when,even in a greenhouse regardless
of the temperature, growthreally stops, so you can keep a
plant alive, but it's not goingto grow, it'll just sort of
survive at whatever size it'sat, and then get coming out

(05:33):
February 15. And beyond, itstarts to regrow.

Rebecca (05:36):
So I love the like romantic pneus of of that it's
like, supports my, my feelingthat gardening and farming and
agriculture is like a verynostalgic work full of and selja
for me anyway, what else am Inoticing right now with our

(05:58):
plants and stuff. I mean,there's no drops are coming up.
And they're beautiful. And justlike so cheerful and friendly to
see. I also was looking up atsome of the trees and noticing
that the shapes of the very tipsof the trees is a little bit
different because they arestarting to starting to produce
buds a tiny bit. And it's coolto see there that like gnarled

(06:19):
spiky, little tiny bits that youwouldn't notice unless you were
really looking for them. Butit's happening. I also was
noticing that our Magnolia hasfuzzy buds. And I just learned
something that I thought was socool. The fuzz of course has a
purpose. And that the fuzz isactually protecting the flower
inside like insulation. It'slike a tiny

Gabe Long (06:42):
fur coat. Yeah, of course, that makes so much
sense. It's cool.

Rebecca (06:45):
Let's keep them from freezing. Yeah. So when Magnolia
actually blooms, we can likeappreciate the fuzzy capsule,
yeah, again. And the other thingI was gonna mention is just that
we were away last weekend,visiting Gabes parents who live
like 40 minutes south of us. Andit's only 40 minutes. It's like
a quick drive down there. Butbecause they're so close to the

(07:07):
ocean, they're always a coupleof weeks, kind of ahead of us in
the spring. And it was so niceto see that the forsythia is
already blooming down there.
It's just it's right around thecorner, even though it still
feels like yeah, winter. So theother thing I wanted to mention
in terms of like, right where weare right now, in early, early
spring, late winter, is justabout not cleaning up leaf

(07:29):
litter, which maybe you canspeak to, but we've become big
believers in not cleaning upyour leaf litter right away,
there's like this big move to,things start getting a little
bit warmer. And it's like, Oh,we got to go out and clean up
the garden to get ready for theseason. And we got to cut down
all of the brush and dead plantmatter. And inevitably, some

(07:51):
leaves have gotten blown around,I got to clean up all those dead
leaves and make everything niceand tidy. Don't do that. If
you're doing that don't do that.
It's really good to wait untilthe temperature is consistently
above like 50 degrees. Right?
Yeah. I said you should talkabout it. And I talked about

Gabe Long (08:08):
No, that's great.
I'll put a little asterisk onthere. It's interesting, one of
our favorite podcasts, plantRama just mentioned this in
their episode. And I'm justgoing to kind of repeat what
they're what they're saying interms of I think there is you
know, can be hard to go all ornothing as far as clean up. And
we have a bunch of our backyardthat is lawn and if you leave

(08:30):
big, you know piles of leaves onthe lawn, the the clover and
other sort of grasses will dieunderneath it. So they'll come
back in the spring, you know,but you're not doing them a
great service but leaving wholeleaves on the lawn. So I would
say as much as possible. Yeah,save your leaves, rake them into
your garden beds. They're greatmulch as they break down. And

(08:54):
yet, particularly with cuttingthings back even whatever dead
stocks you have still stickingup, just leave those like leave
those until you see you know,the new growth coming. There's
there's sort of, I guess, in mymind, overwinter those stalks or
something for the snow to landon. And in the spring, I feel

(09:15):
like they give real structure toyour garden. I guess it's a
matter of aesthetics. But I feellike there's really no downside
to leaving those because thereare so many insects that bees
and other insects thatoverwinter in those dead stocks
and then like you're saying it'sonly when it's above 50
consistently that they startmoving around and you can clean

(09:37):
that way out. Yeah,

Rebecca (09:41):
yeah, we think about pollinators as honey bees often.
And honey. These are wonderfulhoney bees are not native to
North America, though. They'rewonderful and they're supportive
of our environment. But thenative pollinators to North
America usually make their Homesin, in the ground over winter,

(10:04):
and in like dead plant materiallike hollow stocks if you have
like an elderberry shrub or lotsof shrubs have this, you can
look at the shrub in winterwhile the material is dead and
you if you break a stock, it'shard. It's like a straw. And
insects are using that space tooverwinter. Plus it's just nicer

(10:26):
to do the cleanup when it'snicer out. But I also relate to
wanting to

Gabe Long (10:30):
get started. Started well I'll give a Getting Started
joy for today, which is that Ijust planted tomato seeds in the
basement. Not in the backyard.
Not all backyard. No, no, but Iplanted peas a couple of weeks
ago. And you know things aregrowing. I think that's the

Rebecca (10:48):
other like, hint of spring thing is, is I like
imagining all of the likeactivity happening in people's
basements and people's weirdlittle closet corners of the
Grow lights starting therelittle tiny seeds and
everybody's doing their littleproject. Yeah, getting it ready.
Yeah, there's a sweetness tothat. The other Okay, one more

(11:10):
cool this time of year thing isthat it's not just our outdoor
plant friends that are enjoyingmore light our house plants are
changing their life cycle isadjusting to based on the amount
of daylight during the day,which I never knew until like,
yeah, last spring or something.
But um, if you have somehouseplants, now's a good time

(11:32):
to fertilize them start, you canstart fertilizing them now that
we have more hours in the day ofsunlight, because they've been
overwintering themselves, eventhough they're in a temperate
climate controlled environment,they kind of go dormant because
of that date, 10 hours ofdaylight thing that he was
talking about. So now is thetime when you can start fussing

(11:54):
with them. And you know, it'sit's a nice time of year to
remember to change the soil andfertilize if you

Gabe Long (12:01):
want to cut them back a little bit. If you want to
reshape them, they're going tohave new growth soon. So it's
good, you want to know

Rebecca (12:07):
that Yeah, you don't really want to want to trim back
your houseplants too much in themiddle of winter, because not a
good time for them to grow. Sonow's a fine time to do that.
The other thing that thesefarmers were talking about, they
have like a whole greenhousefull of house plants that
they're cultivating and stuff.
And they were saying that theiradvice to people about their
house plants is you have toreally fertilize your house

(12:28):
plants because you have to thinkof the dirt that your house
plants are started out in aslike one meal for your house,
plant the world like a big bowlof food because that dirt that
it's in contains all of these,you know, minerals and all this
nutrition for the house plant,that's that plant is going to
consume all of that nutrition.

(12:49):
And it's going to need more, youcan't just expect it to live
with like one big bowl ofspaghetti and meatballs forever.
So the fertilizer that you'redoing is renewing that and you
also want to like change out thedirt. Sometimes we've got to

Gabe Long (13:02):
Yeah, and it's not a bad idea. You know, just to look
at the roots of your plant. Likethat's something that with house
plants, you know, it is thissort of pretty artificial
environment. So you get a senseof oh, is it really rootbound?
Does it you know, does it need alarger pot or their you know, if
you've got an orchid and it'snot doing well you might see

(13:22):
that the you know, maybe theroots are brown the overwatering
and rotting the roots, you canget some information by taking a
look at those roots.

Rebecca (13:31):
Okay, I think now is a good time to hear from our
sponsors. Just kidding. We don'thave any sponsors. We don't have
that many lists because thenative pollinators in our
backyard. Yeah, I'm Gabe, do youwant to talk about compost? I
would love nothing more than weonly have like 10 minutes for

(13:52):
you to talk about compost game,not all day and night.

Gabe Long (13:56):
Right? Well, I thought I would start just by
giving an overview. I feel likecomposting is something that
people are very passionateabout. And they're really like
camps of like, oh, you compostthis way the greens and the
browns. You do it that way thisway that way.

Rebecca (14:11):
And then you also have the camps have, you can't
compost in a city you're goingto get rats, there's no way to
do it. And then I feel like alot of people we talked to are
like either composting andhaving it picked up. Or they're
like I really would love to getinto composting but what maybe
you could give us some advicefor like, what would you do if

(14:31):
you were starting rightinterested in starting out
composting.

Gabe Long (14:35):
So I would say to like the beginner composter
never composted anything beforeand this is a good season to be
to be thinking about it if youwant to, you know, take that on
as a new project for your gardenthis year. All composting is is
just any sort of organicmaterial breaking down. And that
is a natural process that youhonestly don't need to help

(14:57):
along. I mean, you think aboutyou know the body drawer of your
fridge when you leave thelettuce in there too long like
it. It's a very sort ofartificial clean environment and
that lettuce is gonna break downno matter what you do. And so
that's the process that's goingto take place with any organic
material that you have outsideand everything that people who

(15:19):
compost talk about as far asYeah, ratios of green to browns
or doing this doing that, that'sall about gaining some advantage
for that process. Whether it'sspeeding up that process, that's
what the ratio is of green toBrowns is is getting that
process to move faster.

Rebecca (15:35):
What do you mean to say greens to browns?

Gabe Long (15:37):
Sure. Okay. So greens and browns, you hear a lot
talked about in compost,basically, greens are things
that are high in nitrogen. Soyour kitchen food scraps, or
freshly cut grass, which wouldliterally be green, like living
green. Yeah, living plantmaterial that still has like
it's going to have water in it,it's going to have nitrogen in

(15:58):
it. And then browns are sort ofdead things. So dried grass, dry
brown leaves, newspaper,shredded cardboard, those sorts
of things.

Rebecca (16:08):
What about like, when I finally do trim back my dead
perennial order that has like,you know, dried, decorative
grasses and hydrangea blooms andstuff like that. Yeah,

Gabe Long (16:23):
all of that would be those would all be browns, and
those can all be composted. Iguess we're getting off track
here a little bit, my point wasjust that you can compost just
by taking I mean, again, likeit's all about sort of how
pretty you want it to be howfast you want it to go.
Obviously, you want to avoid,you know, rats and other pests.

(16:43):
But basically, you can take anyorganic matter any, any sort of
thing that's not like plastic orrock or metal and put it outside
and it will create compost. Soyou know, maybe if you're
beginning compost, or you're,you know, maybe you don't have
an ideal setup, try just takinga bunch of your leaves that you

(17:03):
know, around your yard andeither just put them in a pile
and you know, sort of in thecorner where they won't blow
around too much you can if youhave some sort of bin, you can
use really any kind of Bin.
chicken wire is really good ifyou just go and get some chicken
wire and make a little cylinderout of that. And you can put a
bunch of leaves in there. If youwant to add in just some, you

(17:24):
know, simple vegetable scraps,your whatever the cut ends of
your celery and broccoli and youknow, lettuces kind of put some
of that very basic stuff inthere. That will break down over
time and it'll create like agood compost.

Rebecca (17:40):
So are you saying like, you have all your leaves in the
in this, say you're using achicken wire, like bent into a
cylinder shape. If you throw insome kitchen scraps, some like
carrot peel or rotting celeryfrom the bottom of the fridge,
that is not going to speed uphow fast all that stuff breaks
down?

Gabe Long (17:59):
It will Yeah,

Rebecca (18:01):
I always feel like you should combine it just because
it like seems like a good idea.
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah.

Gabe Long (18:08):
So there's a lot of different ratios that are thrown
around about that balancebetween greens and browns. But
in general, you want way moreBrowns than greens. You know,
I've heard like tender ones, I'dbe like, Oh 32 ones that people
are 321, whatever. But you wantby volume, a lot more of that
brown material than the sort ofwet fresh material for a couple

(18:33):
of different reasons. One isjust smell. I mean, if you
imagine like taking a bunch ofsort of banana peels and
squeezed out lime halves andwhatever, and you put that in a
pile, it's gonna it's gonnasmell like rotting food, right?
If you have that mixed in with awhole bunch of shredded leaves,
then you're it's not gonna smellor it'll smell a little, maybe

(18:54):
you'll get sort of on a hot daylike an earthy smell, but you
won't get that sort of, like,putrid rotting smell, I guess.
Yeah, I would say that there'ssort of any number of, of roads
to go down. But as with so manythings in gardening, I think
that so much of it comes it'ssort of your own recipe that you

(19:16):
need to develop a little bit asfar as like, what kind of
organic waste? Are you actuallyproducing? What are you
comfortable with? What mightattract pests will kind of pest
you have in your area. So all ofthat leads to in my mind, the
best way to get started is startwith something like leaves and a

(19:37):
few sort of like kitchen scrapsand you'll get a feel for it.
You can you know, there's tonsof resources online as you sort
of get into it. You know, themetaphor I always come back to
is cooking. You know, somebodysays like, oh, sear the steak on
both sides. And if you're, ifyou've never cooked before, you
know maybe look up a video ofthat or whatever, you're gonna
come across some differentproblems that are kind of unique

(19:58):
to your situation, but youbasically will Want to have that
organic matter somewhere whereit's going to be getting some
air? You don't want it in like atotally closed container?
Because then if it doesn't haveenough oxygen, it will get kind
of Gross. Gross. And, and alittle. Yeah, putrid. And you
want to get

Rebecca (20:19):
some because of like good bacteria versus bad
bacteria? Um,

Gabe Long (20:23):
yeah, I mean, it has to do with basically aerobic
versus anaerobic environments.
If it's aerobic, meaning thatthere's oxygen in it, the types
of bacteria you get, the wasteproducts from those bacteria are
less stinky or something,there's sort of it works better
to create compost,

Rebecca (20:43):
bacteria difference in oxidized and oxidized I don't
know what I'm talking about withanaerobic. Yeah,

Gabe Long (20:51):
anaerobic means without oxygen. And that's where
you get that sort of, you know,bottom of the vegetable drawer
like sludge, right? Right,right, right, it's breaking
down, but you get these nastysmells, you get sort of a lot of
liquid that's building up. So ifyou have a container, and you
have things that are breakingdown and sort of smashing down

(21:12):
on themselves, then there's notgoing to be any air at least in
portion of that pile. And thenit's creating that anaerobic
environment. So

Rebecca (21:20):
this might be why people talk about turning your
compost. Exactly. Yeah, I amlearning things.

Gabe Long (21:26):
Mm hmm. So yeah, turning your compost is another
thing that can be useful. Ithink it's, I hesitate to sort
of say, like, yeah, turn yourcompost, just because it's
another thing that sort ofintimidates people of like, Oh,
if I don't turn my compost, it'sgoing to turn into like this
sewage heap? And it's like, no,no, no, you do need some air in
there. That's why the chickenwire can be good. But the

(21:48):
turning is, is off as long asyou are not, you know, in some
sort of extreme scenario withwhat you're putting in there. As
long as you have plenty ofleaves, whatever it might be
that sort of light and fluffyand brown, you're you don't
really need to turn your compostthat will increase the amount of
oxygen in there. It'll speed upthe process, but it's not a

(22:09):
requirement. It's sort of thisadditional thing that you can do
to make it move faster.

Rebecca (22:14):
So do we have compost in the basement that we're going
to use in our garden?

Gabe Long (22:19):
Yes. So we have a very complicated, some would say
overly difficult system ofcomposting and Goldberg system,
we really do. But maybe I'lldescribe it and maybe in its
describe it in like two sentenceexcessive corners, there might
be there might be somethinguseful. So what we do is we take

(22:39):
basically all our food scraps,including, you know, small
amounts of meat, oil, all thatstuff. That's another thing.
This is a slight tangent, butpeople are always like, oh, you
can't compost meat. It's like,no, of course, you can compost
me, what do you think happens tome, you know, breaks down the
risk with meat, oil, foodleftovers from a plate is pests

(23:01):
that that is, you know, has alot of calories in it. It smells
like something that has a lot ofcalories in it. And as a result,
it's very attractive to rats andraccoons and that sort of stuff.
If you take a piece of lettuceand you throw it out in your
backyard, that's notparticularly more appealing than
just a leaf off of a tree,right? There's not

Rebecca (23:22):
here. But if you're in the country, and you have like
rabbits and deer and stuff likethat might be a little bit
different depending on like,what volume you're talking
about, and what yourcircumstances are, right
circumstan of what your point isabout, like, you got to kind of
figure out what works for you.
This is where it comes. Yeah,come in with like, the barrels
that are closed, that you canlike, turn and stuff that are
like they're protective, and allof that.

Gabe Long (23:46):
Yeah, it definitely depends on your circumstance.
But in general, you what you'rewhat you're looking at is, is is
the thing that you're throwingout there really different than
what's already available. Soeven, you know, deer or
something, are they really goingto come looking for that one,
you know, the end piece of thelettuce that you cut off, you
know, I think probably not,especially if it's mixed in with

(24:06):
some leaves and some otherthings anyway, so we take all of
our we put all of our foodscraps in a little container on
the counter. Those go into aBokashi system in the basement,
which is an intentionallyanaerobic environment. It's
inside a sealed bucket and youpour like a little bit of this
brand that's inoculated with aspecific set of bacteria. That

(24:29):
begins the process of breakingstuff down. And then after a few
weeks, there's kind of this mushin there. And then that goes out
to bins outside where itfinishes the composting process.
I mix the indoor material, thefood scraps with leaves, grass,

(24:51):
you know, whatever sort ofgarden stuff that we have
available, that'll add some airinto it and kind of create some
Something of a balance betweengreens and browns, even though
I'm very unscientific aboutthat. And it does, we do get
compost quite fast as a resultof that quite in depth system.

Rebecca (25:11):
You love a project.

Gabe Long (25:12):
I do love a project,

Rebecca (25:14):
I'll tell you this, the best thing about compost to me
is that when we startedcomposting, I was absolutely
shocked at how much our levelsof garbage that our household
was producing went down. I couldnot believe how much of our
garbage production was just foodscraps. And like even just

(25:34):
composting, the green matter isa huge change. Huge, huge, huge
change. For us, we take out thetrash, I don't know, let we need
to take it out less than we usedto mine kind of a lot. And
between recycling andcomposting, the amount of
garbage going out of this houseis pretty low, which feels
really good.

Gabe Long (25:52):
And getting back to that question of the aerobic and
anaerobic that is actually apretty significant thing about
composting. Not only are you nottaking up space in a landfill
and taking out extra trash andall of that, but when you have
food scraps that go into alandfill, they're packed into
that landfill and in in a oxygenfree anaerobic environment. As

(26:13):
they break down, they createmethane, which is of course an
incredibly powerful greenhousegas much more powerful I think
10 times four times morepowerful than carbon dioxide. If
those same food scraps breakdown aerobically, so breaking
down in a compost pile that's,you know, has some oxygen they
create a very small amount ofcarbon dioxide but no methane at

(26:36):
all. So yeah, composting isgood, but I feel like there can
be an intimidation I guess mymaybe I'm leaning too hard into
this but I think there can be anintimidation factor of like, oh
composting, that's such anintense that you know, it's like
can I compost Am I good enoughat gardening to compost it's

Rebecca (26:53):
like a science experiment. Yeah,

Gabe Long (26:55):
I again like just take some leaves throw it in a
cylinder of chicken wire. Theother thing that you do need is
you need a little bit of waterso if it's you have to have a
little bit of a balance betweenthe amount of air and the amount
of water don't just put thoselike under the edge of your roof
where they get no water at allif the the water

Rebecca (27:15):
just like helps things rot faster basically yeah the
water your compost need to getrained on you wanted to get some
rain yes

Gabe Long (27:21):
all you don't have to like water. You don't need to
water it. You know, as you getinto this, then yes, you sort of
like manage how much water is inthere, this and that. But at the
outset, yeah, put it out whereit gets some rain. You're good
to go.

Rebecca (27:34):
We love composting.
Write to us with your compostingquestions. Yeah, and Gabe will
answer them on the air. I willanswer every single one. If you
need to be talked intocomposting if you're intimidated
about composting, we would loveto talk about it. We love this
stuff. I think that is going toconclude our episode for today.
Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you for listening and forbeing out. If you have a

(27:56):
question about composting oranything else you want answered
on the podcast. You can email usor even better send us a voice
memo at leafing [e-mail] Or you can DM us
on Instagram we're at leafingout pod over there too. And you
know it'd be so great if you'restill listening at this point.
Could you just go over to Applepodcasts and rate and review us

(28:16):
that really would help us and itwould help other people who are
interested in gardening find ourpodcast. Happy gardening. See
you out there. Out there.