August 5, 2021 • 10 mins
Gabe tries to figure out the age of the red oak in the backyard and in the process finds out a lot about the fallibility of common (non-invasive) tree-dating methods.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabe Long (00:05):
Hello, leafers Thank you for tuning in. I really
appreciate it. I know there area few of you because I check the
download statistics every day.
This is going to be a little bitshorter than a normal episode,
Rebecca took a trip to LA, Itook a trip to the emergency
room because of food poisoning.
But the show must go on. I'mgoing to do a short segment in
(00:30):
response to our first review onApple podcasts, which I really
appreciate that you reviewed uspG WISN. I don't know if that's
an acronym, or if I was supposedto pronounce that somehow. But
anyone else out there listening,if you want to review us, please
do. So review asked in part, howold is the red oak in our
backyard. And so this segment isabout my attempt to figure that
(00:52):
out and why it's a little morecomplicated than some online
resources would have youbelieve.
Okay, so right here in thebackyard, feeling a little
strange talking to myself. AndI've got my tools here, a tape
(01:16):
measure, and some rope. And whatI'm going to try to do without
crushing too many of ourplantings is get this rope
around the tree at four and ahalf feet off the ground. The
first step in this process oftrying to determine the red oak
(01:40):
Ah, so, tape measure four and ahalf feet, right there. And then
here's the real trick, trying towhip this thing around. Wow,
that was very lucky. Okay, gotthe rope around. And now, four
(02:06):
and a half feet off the ground.
Just about here. Alright, so nowI'm taking my rope back, and I'm
going to lay it out on the lawnmeasuring Okay, so we have 133
inches heading back inside. So Igot my measurement 133 inches.
(02:37):
actually doing this math rightnow, it's not just for show.
Going to tree hugger dot comsarticle about estimating your
trees age from its diameter,diameter equals circumference
(02:58):
divided by pi. So 133 divided by3.14 is 42 inches, so 42 inch
diameter. And then diametertimes four, which is a growth
(03:20):
factor for Reto equals artvin68. So, according to
treehugger.com, the red oak is168 years old. You say 168. I'll
go over there. Did you say 168?
(03:44):
I did say 168. So it's very old.
So Rebecca, Rebecca's trainingthe podcast now from bed?
Rebecca (03:51):
bed, but I just heard him say 168. I just heard you
say 168. Well, full age how likeconfirmed is that?
Gabe Long (03:59):
So? That's a great question. I'm glad you asked.
You're the perfect foil for thismoment in the podcast. Because
if you're a normal person, you'dgo out and you would measure the
circumference of your trunk. Yousay 168 That sounds great. I
love that number. Okay, bynormal person, you're
Rebecca (04:15):
a weird person. So
Gabe Long (04:17):
what do you I'm a weird person. So I read about
these growth factorcalculations. And I read that
they're not super accurate. AndI said, well, it's not good
enough to know that it's notsuper accurate. I need to know
how inaccurate it is right?
Because if it's off by like 10years, like great, that's,
that's wonderful. If it's off bylike 40%, then like, that number
(04:37):
doesn't really mean a lot to me.
So I started digging deeper andit turns out that the growth
factors are based on forest landtrees is the term used by the
International Society ofarboriculture tourists. Arbor
(04:59):
culture Who came up with thismethodology. And obviously, in a
forest, the growing conditionsare completely different than in
a backyard, there's less accessto water, but the soil isn't as
disturbed. So it's likeextremely variable. And nobody
seemingly can tell you by whatpercentage off you might be. So
(05:22):
what I decided to do is, ratherthan just using that single
number, I would do a little moredigging, and I would look at
some other factors that mighthelp me narrow down How old is
this tree. So the first thingthat I came across is, red oaks
Do not hit their peak, a cornproduction until they're about
50 years old. So it's at least50 years old,
Rebecca (05:45):
or 50 years old or more.
Gabe Long (05:47):
We know that buck Tommy corn, here, we get
approximately a fuck ton ofacorns every year. Rain, rain,
rain, hail,
Rebecca (05:58):
rain here, baby when you're standing under it and
fall. So
Gabe Long (06:02):
you can do that Google, I'll leave that one to
you. We also know that thishouse was built in 1870. So that
was only with the math here. Howmany years ago was that? 1970.
Rebecca (06:20):
warranty that we're not experts. In fact, we
Gabe Long (06:23):
cannot dig our phones out of our pockets to use the
calculator app. Our house is 151years old. The neighborhood in
general was built around thattime. That oak tree is right on
the property line. So I'vealways thought like, oh, that
would be interesting. If theydidn't have, you know, large
(06:43):
fences. Maybe they had a hedgedividing the properties or maybe
they had a row of trees. Andmaybe that tree was planted
around the time that the housewas built. So that's 151 years,
and maybe it wasn't planted froman acorn. Maybe it was planted
as a small sapling. It wasalready five years old or
(07:04):
something like that.
Rebecca (07:05):
Wow. I had never thought of that, that like when
this house was built. Maybe theyplanted trees in the backyards
intentionally. I never thoughtthat that would be how that tree
got there. I just assumed it wastheir first.
Gabe Long (07:21):
It also could be that I mean, I'm making a total guess
it just the fact that it's righton the property line has always
indicated to me that by the timepeople were building fences, it
was already big enough that theywere like, Oh, we shouldn't cut
down this tree
Rebecca (07:37):
when they would have built this whole neighborhood.
Would they have clear cut thewhole thing in order to build
all the houses?
Gabe Long (07:44):
What was farmland?
Who was Ebenezer Dexter'sfarmland so he would have clear
cut it
Rebecca (07:48):
so it was pretty clear cut. So I wonder if all the
oldest trees were planted rightaround when all the houses were
built?
Gabe Long (07:55):
Right? Presumably unless he left a couple of trees
for his cows to graze underwhich I feel like such a
detective right? We are gettingfurther and further from
anything interesting for you,our dear listener,
Rebecca (08:09):
very micro interesting only to us because we live here
kind of thing.
Gabe Long (08:14):
But But I think the lesson maybe to take away is
that it can be interesting roadto go down thinking about the
history of trees and the waythat people interact with trees.
I will say one of the thingsthat made me think that maybe
that tree was planted on theproperty line is that I know
that these backyards were usedas gardens for the house. So
(08:38):
people were cultivating thempeople were paying attention to
what was growing there. Anythingelse you're curious about what
the trees
Rebecca (08:45):
very cool. I love thinking about the history. It
feels very spooky to me sort ofIs there any way for you to next
do it another mini app about howto find out are trees,
astrological sign the sun signthe moon sign maybe that's maybe
we need to call in some biggerexperts
Gabe Long (09:05):
for that. That's not covered by the International
Society of arboriculture lists.
But in the age of the internet,If you can dream it, somebody is
already doing it and charging$45 an hour for
Rebecca (09:17):
are saying they're doing it and ready to take your
money for it.
Gabe Long (09:20):
That's right. One other thing I will add, to give
a little bit of legitimacy tothis seemingly extremely
amateurish process is that ourbreasts and other people who
actually do this for a living dooften use this kind of very
(09:40):
local specific knowledge and thecomparison of sizes of a given
tree to the size of a tree thathas a known age in order to try
and estimate tree age becauseit's a inexact science and
without taking a core sample andcounting the ring. It's
extremely difficult to reallyaccurately estimate the age of a
(10:04):
tree. So, you know, even ifyou're not perfectly accurate,
you're only as inaccurate as theprofessionals. We hope you've
enjoyed leafing out and if youever have a gardening question
that you want us to weigh in on,you can send us an email or
better yet, email us a voicememo at leafing out
(10:27):
pod@gmail.com and please followus on Instagram at leafing out
pot
Hello, leafers Thank you for tuning in. I really
appreciate it. I know there area few of you because I check the
download statistics every day.
This is going to be a little bitshorter than a normal episode,
Rebecca took a trip to LA, Itook a trip to the emergency
room because of food poisoning.
But the show must go on. I'mgoing to do a short segment in
(00:30):
response to our first review onApple podcasts, which I really
appreciate that you reviewed uspG WISN. I don't know if that's
an acronym, or if I was supposedto pronounce that somehow. But
anyone else out there listening,if you want to review us, please
do. So review asked in part, howold is the red oak in our
backyard. And so this segment isabout my attempt to figure that
(00:52):
out and why it's a little morecomplicated than some online
resources would have youbelieve.
Okay, so right here in thebackyard, feeling a little
strange talking to myself. AndI've got my tools here, a tape
(01:16):
measure, and some rope. And whatI'm going to try to do without
crushing too many of ourplantings is get this rope
around the tree at four and ahalf feet off the ground. The
first step in this process oftrying to determine the red oak
(01:40):
Ah, so, tape measure four and ahalf feet, right there. And then
here's the real trick, trying towhip this thing around. Wow,
that was very lucky. Okay, gotthe rope around. And now, four
(02:06):
and a half feet off the ground.
Just about here. Alright, so nowI'm taking my rope back, and I'm
going to lay it out on the lawnmeasuring Okay, so we have 133
inches heading back inside. So Igot my measurement 133 inches.
(02:37):
actually doing this math rightnow, it's not just for show.
Going to tree hugger dot comsarticle about estimating your
trees age from its diameter,diameter equals circumference
(02:58):
divided by pi. So 133 divided by3.14 is 42 inches, so 42 inch
diameter. And then diametertimes four, which is a growth
(03:20):
factor for Reto equals artvin68. So, according to
treehugger.com, the red oak is168 years old. You say 168. I'll
go over there. Did you say 168?
(03:44):
I did say 168. So it's very old.
So Rebecca, Rebecca's trainingthe podcast now from bed?
Rebecca (03:51):
bed, but I just heard him say 168. I just heard you
say 168. Well, full age how likeconfirmed is that?
Gabe Long (03:59):
So? That's a great question. I'm glad you asked.
You're the perfect foil for thismoment in the podcast. Because
if you're a normal person, you'dgo out and you would measure the
circumference of your trunk. Yousay 168 That sounds great. I
love that number. Okay, bynormal person, you're
Rebecca (04:15):
a weird person. So
Gabe Long (04:17):
what do you I'm a weird person. So I read about
these growth factorcalculations. And I read that
they're not super accurate. AndI said, well, it's not good
enough to know that it's notsuper accurate. I need to know
how inaccurate it is right?
Because if it's off by like 10years, like great, that's,
that's wonderful. If it's off bylike 40%, then like, that number
(04:37):
doesn't really mean a lot to me.
So I started digging deeper andit turns out that the growth
factors are based on forest landtrees is the term used by the
International Society ofarboriculture tourists. Arbor
(04:59):
culture Who came up with thismethodology. And obviously, in a
forest, the growing conditionsare completely different than in
a backyard, there's less accessto water, but the soil isn't as
disturbed. So it's likeextremely variable. And nobody
seemingly can tell you by whatpercentage off you might be. So
(05:22):
what I decided to do is, ratherthan just using that single
number, I would do a little moredigging, and I would look at
some other factors that mighthelp me narrow down How old is
this tree. So the first thingthat I came across is, red oaks
Do not hit their peak, a cornproduction until they're about
50 years old. So it's at least50 years old,
Rebecca (05:45):
or 50 years old or more.
Gabe Long (05:47):
We know that buck Tommy corn, here, we get
approximately a fuck ton ofacorns every year. Rain, rain,
rain, hail,
Rebecca (05:58):
rain here, baby when you're standing under it and
fall. So
Gabe Long (06:02):
you can do that Google, I'll leave that one to
you. We also know that thishouse was built in 1870. So that
was only with the math here. Howmany years ago was that? 1970.
Rebecca (06:20):
warranty that we're not experts. In fact, we
Gabe Long (06:23):
cannot dig our phones out of our pockets to use the
calculator app. Our house is 151years old. The neighborhood in
general was built around thattime. That oak tree is right on
the property line. So I'vealways thought like, oh, that
would be interesting. If theydidn't have, you know, large
(06:43):
fences. Maybe they had a hedgedividing the properties or maybe
they had a row of trees. Andmaybe that tree was planted
around the time that the housewas built. So that's 151 years,
and maybe it wasn't planted froman acorn. Maybe it was planted
as a small sapling. It wasalready five years old or
(07:04):
something like that.
Rebecca (07:05):
Wow. I had never thought of that, that like when
this house was built. Maybe theyplanted trees in the backyards
intentionally. I never thoughtthat that would be how that tree
got there. I just assumed it wastheir first.
Gabe Long (07:21):
It also could be that I mean, I'm making a total guess
it just the fact that it's righton the property line has always
indicated to me that by the timepeople were building fences, it
was already big enough that theywere like, Oh, we shouldn't cut
down this tree
Rebecca (07:37):
when they would have built this whole neighborhood.
Would they have clear cut thewhole thing in order to build
all the houses?
Gabe Long (07:44):
What was farmland?
Who was Ebenezer Dexter'sfarmland so he would have clear
cut it
Rebecca (07:48):
so it was pretty clear cut. So I wonder if all the
oldest trees were planted rightaround when all the houses were
built?
Gabe Long (07:55):
Right? Presumably unless he left a couple of trees
for his cows to graze underwhich I feel like such a
detective right? We are gettingfurther and further from
anything interesting for you,our dear listener,
Rebecca (08:09):
very micro interesting only to us because we live here
kind of thing.
Gabe Long (08:14):
But But I think the lesson maybe to take away is
that it can be interesting roadto go down thinking about the
history of trees and the waythat people interact with trees.
I will say one of the thingsthat made me think that maybe
that tree was planted on theproperty line is that I know
that these backyards were usedas gardens for the house. So
(08:38):
people were cultivating thempeople were paying attention to
what was growing there. Anythingelse you're curious about what
the trees
Rebecca (08:45):
very cool. I love thinking about the history. It
feels very spooky to me sort ofIs there any way for you to next
do it another mini app about howto find out are trees,
astrological sign the sun signthe moon sign maybe that's maybe
we need to call in some biggerexperts
Gabe Long (09:05):
for that. That's not covered by the International
Society of arboriculture lists.
But in the age of the internet,If you can dream it, somebody is
already doing it and charging$45 an hour for
Rebecca (09:17):
are saying they're doing it and ready to take your
money for it.
Gabe Long (09:20):
That's right. One other thing I will add, to give
a little bit of legitimacy tothis seemingly extremely
amateurish process is that ourbreasts and other people who
actually do this for a living dooften use this kind of very
(09:40):
local specific knowledge and thecomparison of sizes of a given
tree to the size of a tree thathas a known age in order to try
and estimate tree age becauseit's a inexact science and
without taking a core sample andcounting the ring. It's
extremely difficult to reallyaccurately estimate the age of a
(10:04):
tree. So, you know, even ifyou're not perfectly accurate,
you're only as inaccurate as theprofessionals. We hope you've
enjoyed leafing out and if youever have a gardening question
that you want us to weigh in on,you can send us an email or
better yet, email us a voicememo at leafing out
(10:27):
pod@gmail.com and please followus on Instagram at leafing out
pot
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