Winter Wonders!

Gabe & Rebecca chat about what's happening in garden in winter, everything from evergreens to dried flower blossoms to overwintering insects. 

Episode Transcript

Rebecca (00:05):
Welcome to leafing out a podcast about gardening. I am
Rebecca. And I'm Gabe. And weare not experts. We're amateur
gardeners, sharing what welearned as we learned it on our
gardening journey. It's been along journey,

Gabe Long (00:19):
and a long time since are like less fun.

Rebecca (00:21):
Very long time. We've been on quite a journey since
our last podcast episode. It's ajourney. rife with daycare
closings, lack of child care.

Gabe Long (00:33):
COVID scares

Rebecca (00:34):
COVID scares, just ventures late. Wait. COVID
Malays?

Gabe Long (00:39):
Yeah, yeah. All right. I'm gay. What are we
talking about?

Rebecca (00:41):
Why don't we just do like, I want to know, I feel
like you've been doing gardeningand I have just not at all. Can
you just tell me what is goingon our garden? It's winter now.
It's, we should probably givelike a little timestamp. It's
December 2008. Yep. 2021. Yeah.
And so a lot of things I justasked for an update. And I'm

(01:03):
already giving the updatemyself. But what I've been
noticing outside is we finallyhave done something that people
always say to do that I alwaysread and was like, that sounds
so boring. I don't want to dothat, which is plant things that
are green in the winter so thatthere's something to look at,
even in the winter time. Lastyear, we last spring, I guess we

(01:27):
planted some stuff, some morestuff that's Evergreen. And
gosh, have I been noticing whatan upgrade it is out back? Yeah,
but you've been actuallyplodding around out there. I've
just been kind of lookingthrough the back kitchen window
as I like do dishes yet again.

Gabe Long (01:47):
Why I like talking about evergreens for a minute,
because I think I remember earlyconversations about our, our
garden and you talking aboutthat piece of advice. And for
some reason. I don't maybe maybeit's what everybody thinks of or
maybe it was just me. Peopletalk about evergreens and I
think of needles, I think oflike, you know, a Christmas tree

(02:07):
or like, you know, a shrub, asneedles or, or whatever. And I
think something that changed myperception of that advice is
just realizing that like thereare lots of things that have
leaves like rhododendrons, ormountain laurel which is what we
planted a whole bunch of alongour back fence that don't have

(02:32):
needles.

Rebecca (02:33):
Yeah, it's true. I think when I was hearing like,
plant evergreens so that there'ssomething to look at in winter.
My mind went to like Arbor of itand other like prying eyes,
Evergreen things that are likeit's not the right word. That's
not even the right word. But youknow what I mean? Like
evergreen, what you think of asevergreen plants? Yeah, like,

Gabe Long (02:52):
well, they don't have leaves. They they're that
they're the title. Yeah, have asort of very spine, whether it's
an actual needle,

Rebecca (02:58):
this is the part where we're not experts.

Gabe Long (03:02):
Well, whatever I think suffice to say that
there's lots of different typesof evergreens.

Rebecca (03:06):
There's plants that are that happen to be evergreen that
aren't what what light leaped tomy mind when I think about an
evergreen like an evergreenshrub or tree or something?
Yeah, that I have been delightedto find that feel kind of like
needle in a haystack littlefinds. Like we were just out
there and I was really enjoyinghaving let's just rattle off

(03:27):
what some of them are. Yeah,there's the woods birch wood
Spark is so cool. So cool.
There's a lot of differentspring urges and things that
call themselves spurge, andpeople know different things as
spurge. But we're talking aboutI've sometimes seen referred to
as cushioned spurge. It'sEuphorbia amygdaloid and they
Deloitte these employees Yeah,and they Deloitte Euphorbia

(03:50):
amygdaloid. These would spurgelet's take that back a little
bit. So,

Gabe Long (03:57):
I was gonna say I'm back with a non squeaky chair.

Rebecca (04:00):
I guess you could you we paused you've come back with
a not squeaky chair. I was gonnasay that the, what we have is
Euphorbia amygdaloid easevariation. Roby, a wood spurge,
which is also known as I'mreading this off of gardenia,
dotnet. Wood spurge, Mrs. Rob'sbonnet, Rob's spurge and

(04:21):
Euphorbia Roby a it's aspreading evergreen perennial.
It's just cool. It's one ofthose plants that to me looks
something like something thatalmost looks like it would grow
under the sea, like somethingthat you would find in like a
coral reef or something, youknow, a little bit strange
looking.

Gabe Long (04:40):
Yeah. And it's not a native to North America. I think
it's a native of Europe. But Ithink when we talked in the past
about like, using your nonnatives for something kind of
special like like sprinklingthem and I think it's a great
one for that because it isevergreen because it's like a
low grower that has this reallycool leaf shape. It's also, I

(05:01):
think, pretty adaptable todifferent light levels. Like we
have it in very part shade. Andsome might even say full shade.
And it's doing great. So it's

Rebecca (05:12):
not here that it's a full sun depart shade lover. I
would say we have it in like,part verging on full sheet. Yes,
just fine. And it's nice becauseit kind of clumps up pretty
fast. Like, I'm really surprisedby how it has filled in. We
haven't planted right under amagnolia. And it just is lovely.
And looks like it's been therefor years. And it's so nice that
it is just robust this time ofyear. What else do we have this

(05:36):
really nice right now we haveChristmas Fern that is looking
great. It is so lovely.

Gabe Long (05:42):
Christmas fern is really one of my favorites, I
feel like and that is a native.
At least in North America. Idon't know what part but I feel
like it's is when I think oflike a plant that can go and
like any garden like any gardenlike you could put in the
Christmas Fern, it's full shade.
So it's like fills in a youknow, a niche that not a lot of

(06:04):
other plants do. It's so pretty.
And until me it's like almostevergreen, like it'll it'll last
pretty much through the winter.

Rebecca (06:12):
So this is our first year having it so it'll be
interesting to see exactly howlong it holds out. Because I
feel like our garden we'vetalked about this before has a
little bit of a microclimatewhere it doesn't receive that
much wind. And some things kindof stick around and don't get
too cold blasted. Even thoughwe're in zone six be some things

(06:32):
that shouldn't last all winterkind of tend to with us. So
we'll see. But I think myimpression is that part of why
it's called Christmas fern isthat it stays green through like
January and it holds up for mostof winter. And then it's gonna
you're gonna lose it by the endof the winter. But it will
provide some some greeninterest. Even when I'm when

(06:54):
most things have died, it holdsout like way, way way through
the first frost when so many ofyour foliage plants are gonna
just be done for the season. AndI

Gabe Long (07:05):
want to jump on your point about wind. I think that
is something that even if wehave said this on a previous
podcast bears repeating thatwhen I was starting out, I
definitely always thought ofhardiness as a function of
temperature. And the more I'vedelved into particularly like
creating low tunnels for some ofthe vegetables in the garden,

(07:26):
the more I've realized it'sreally a function of temperature
combined with wind exposure. Soif you have, like you're saying
a place that is sheltered fromwind, you can get away with, you
know, overwintering rosemary,and zone six be where we are or
some of those other plants thatlike might only really be hardy

(07:47):
to zone seven. You can reallykind of push it if you shelter
them from wind. Yeah, that

Rebecca (07:53):
gives you kind of a nice little window for that a
lot of plants will be prettyhappy with. Why don't you tell
us more about the wind tunnelsthat you're doing? What did you
do out there?

Gabe Long (08:03):
So well, they aren't wind tunnels there.

Rebecca (08:05):
Oh, yes. Not wind tunnels. That was interesting.

Gabe Long (08:09):
But yeah, so over two of the beds. I have those, those
remash panels that I turned intolittle tomato cages. And so you
just bend them into place. Yeah,I just sort of, you know, unhook
them. I had like, cut them sothat I had little sort of hooky
pieces on the end. And I canturn them into like a column

(08:31):
that creates a tomato cage.

Rebecca (08:33):
So you buy rematch sheets of remash at like Lowe's
or Home Depot or whatever. Yeah.
And you bring them home, on theroof of your car holding on to
them down the highway, if Irecall

Gabe Long (08:42):
correctly. That sounds right. I know that story.

Rebecca (08:46):
And then you bend them into like a half circle kind of
for the

Gabe Long (08:51):
tunnels. Yeah. So for the tunnels. I mean, I was just
telling my whole journey withit, which was turning them into
the tomato cages and thenunbending them slightly so that
they're half circles. And Idrape greenhouse plastic over
them. And it's just an openended tunnel. So back to the
frost question like if itprovides no like there's no

(09:15):
greenhouse effect. It's nottrapping air. It's not any
warmer in there than it isoutside. More of like an
umbrella situation. It's exactlylike an umbrella. Yeah, but an
umbrella that goes to the groundso that you're not getting that
wind exposure. And I don'ttotally understand the science
behind it. But there issomething yeah, there that that

(09:36):
the wind, the snow can make adifference, but particularly the
wind, I think it's like a dryingeffect on the leaves of plants
that somehow sort of like driesthem out to the point that they
can't

Rebecca (09:48):
I know that that is a thing what we think about water
loss in plants as being relatedto the dryness of the soil, but
like on hot days when you havethe sun beat down, we think of
the plants is getting really drybecause like so much is
evaporating, the wind is makingit if it's breezy, and windy,
the wind is going to make youryour evaporation rate so much

(10:12):
faster, right? Yeah. So wait. Soyou're you're just covering the
tops of the low tunnels, you butI think you put a photo of this
on Instagram, someone wants toactually see what they look like
I would be so confused right nowif I didn't know what they look
like. But why don't you coverthe ends? Like wouldn't? Would
you be able to grow more thingsif you covered the ends and had
it be warmer inside what

Gabe Long (10:32):
so that's what I started with is I thought like,
Oh, I'm going to make this likeminiature greenhouse and like,
it'll be a few degrees warmerand like things will grow and
whatever. And I realized that onthat small of a scale, you
really can't do that you won'tget a greenhouse effect. Because
it just like isn't big enough totrap enough air. Like you don't

(10:56):
really have any insulation,right, you just have this piece
of plastic. So you're relying onlike, a lot of sunlight coming
in heating up like a largeamount of air heating up the
soil that is like underneaththat greenhouse and on a on a
much larger scale that canreally work like you can go into
a, you know, a greenhouse,that's that, that you can walk
into in the middle of winter.
And on a freezing cold day,it'll be you know, 75 degrees,

(11:18):
but on this scale, it justdoesn't. It doesn't really work.
Or it's I'll say it doesn't workfor me. Maybe there are other
people who have differentexperiences. But please

Rebecca (11:29):
write down if you have turned your low journals into a
little greenhouse situation, letus know.

Gabe Long (11:34):
Yes, man, I would love to hear from folks. Because
I know there are people who sortof proselytize about different
sorts of setups, little boxeswith hay bales, and windowpanes,
all this sort of stuff. But whatI found is that like, it really
wasn't getting any warmer inthere. And what was happening is
that I was getting tons of bugs.
So like we had parsley. AndParsley is great. Like it can,

(12:00):
you know, can last all winter ifit's under cover. But it was
just covered in aphids, becausethere was nothing they got in
there and there was nothing toeat them. And you know, it was
sort of to a point where Ididn't really want to use the
parsley. So I figured well, thisyear, I'll leave the ends open
that will hopefully take care ofthe bug issue because there'll
be predator bugs and if the ifthe aphids are alive, then

(12:20):
things will be alive. They caneat them. And I think it'll
serve pretty much the same.
It'll give pretty much the sameamount of protection.

Rebecca (12:31):
So we're in the aphids last

Gabe Long (12:32):
year. Things were last year. Yeah, so

Rebecca (12:34):
we're gonna see what happens. We're gonna see what
happens.

Gabe Long (12:35):
Yeah, this is no this is unproven.

Rebecca (12:39):
They're even our aphids. I hate aphids. I'm so
surprised that they're aphids.
In winter. This is dismal newsfor me. Really? We've talked
about this before.

Gabe Long (12:50):
Well, there aren't that's the thing is I just
covered the the parsley theother day, and there weren't any
aphids on it. So I think it'slike I think it takes like a
special set of circumstances forthe aphids to thrive in winter a
special set of circumstancesprovided by a low tunnel that is
closed

Rebecca (13:07):
your attorney father would say you were creating an
attractive nuisance for the fitsomething by creating your
closed low tunnels with suchnice cozy protected. Yeah,
circumstances for them. Right.
So what else are you going togrow this year,

Gabe Long (13:22):
so I'm taking it pretty easy i in i guess it was
late summer I planted a wholebunch of arugula in one bed and
there's also parsley in thatbed. So it covered that, that
will that'll last like prettymuch all winter. I mean, maybe
by like, late February, if wehaven't eaten it all by then it
might be a little funny. But um,the arugula is super Hardy, and

(13:45):
it develops like, I mean, hegets definitely stronger in
flavor. Like, I don't think Iwould want to even now eat like
a whole salad of that arugula.
It's like, spicy, but it's awonderful greet. It feels like
very special to me to like, youhave your salad of like romaine
or spinach or you know, whateversort of mild green and you throw
a bunch of that in and it reallylike add something nice. You

(14:05):
have this now it's growing outthere now like it's ready to go.
Yeah, it's ready to go shouldthrow it in the soup that I'm
gonna make tomorrow. We'll do itgonna make I'll tell you what
the soup is.

Rebecca (14:15):
I'm going to make a soup. That is chicken stock.
Pasta, like radiator pasta, youknow? And pork and fennel seed.
So it's like a sausage G soupwith she calls her broccoli Rob.
And that would be I was planningon doing that. But maybe we

(14:37):
could just like throw a handfulof the arugula in. Yeah, the
very. I was like doing the soupand like just throw a handful of
spinach or something on the veryend. It'll just wilt as it goes
in. Yeah, that sounds reallygood.

Gabe Long (14:48):
Another point. That is something that sort of took
me a while to figure out is toyour question of like, Is it
ready to go now, with all ofthese like little low tunnel
setups, you really don't haveenough light, or warmth to grow
anything. Like you're justkeeping stuff alive, basically

(15:10):
like what you have out there inlike mid to late September, like
that's it, it's done growinglike you are not going to get
your plants will not get anybigger, they will not grow more
leaves they want if you're doinglike just a low tunnel, if
you're doing something likeunheated. I mean, admittedly, we
don't have like a TON TON oflight here. So maybe this would

(15:33):
be different if you had likefull full full sun if you're in
the middle of a field with like,as much light as possible. But
even so, like farmers who dothis, professionally, I think,
October through February, you'renot growing anything, you're
just keeping it alive. So youhave to kind of think about that
when you're planting you reallywant to be that arugula and

(15:55):
maybe planted in mid August sothat it had like a good month,
month and a half to grow. Andthen it's just hanging out for
the winter. You'd ask what elseI'm growing in the other bed,
there's claytonia which rightnow is little tiny seedlings.

Rebecca (16:12):
Let's see Tony I gave.

Gabe Long (16:15):
Well, this is also on Instagram, I feel like we're
doubling up, but that's fine.
Um, claytonia is also calledminers lettuce and meanors
miners lettuce. Yeah, becauselike children, like the youths
know, like gold miners. Becausewhen the gold miners went west
to California, and they were allI don't know, had scurvy or
whatever other diseases camefrom not eating any greens.

(16:38):
claytonia is like the firstgreen that appears in the
springtime. So it will startgrowing from seed once
temperatures get below about 50in the fall. And it stays
really, really small for most ofthe winter. And then as the days
start getting longer, and thisis an interesting thing. Like

(16:59):
it's not actually thetemperature is getting warmer so
you're like oh, it's still seemscold out but you can notice that
the the the miners lettersreally takes off at the Tony
really takes off. And I haveplanted it, what two years ago
and it just recedes itself inthis bed even though I'm growing
lots of other things in that bedover the summer. And every seeds

(17:22):
itself and in the fall I startseeing you poking up and then by
I would say like, early April,the whole bed is full of this
really nice, wonderful greenthat I feel like is a little bit
special because you can't reallybuy it and stores have bruises
so easily that unless you havelike a, you know, farmers market

(17:46):
that sells it, it's pretty hardto find.

Rebecca (17:51):
It is so delightful. I had no idea that that is always
just receding itself. Like we'vehad it several years in a row
and I thought that you plantedit. It's a this is lazy lazy
genius kind of stuff. Yeah, thatI love. And it's so cute looking
too it's I feel like thoseleaves come up and they're like
kind of heart shaped and smelland the taste so good. The

(18:15):
leaves almost have the textureof like baby spinach or
something the way that thoseleaves are kind of like thick
and spongy and Chris Yeah.

Gabe Long (18:23):
Or like a watercress or spray Yeah, it's

Rebecca (18:26):
so like, mild and sweet and nice.

Gabe Long (18:30):
And then they get they go to seed in or they start
flowering I should say. And Ithink like mid April or maybe
late April may have those cutelittle white blossoms that are
kind of honorable how adorable

Rebecca (18:41):
edible flowers so tiny people are like what is the
wanna impress your friend? Yeah,

Gabe Long (18:47):
yeah,

Rebecca (18:47):
grow some claytonia and throw it in a salad like I grew
it. Yeah, they will be like Iguess maybe maybe they well I
guess it depends on your friendsdepends

Gabe Long (18:58):
on your friends. I would say my other favorite
things that are growing rightnow are the who grow which is
just a I love the lucra it's soanother plant that I feel like
what garden Wouldn't that workin another low light plan? Not
evergreen but definitely likegives you something to look at

(19:20):
something green

Rebecca (19:21):
it's another one that lasts almost all winter long
Yeah, at the very end of winterthe leaves will be kind of beat
up where we live anyway but thensoon enough the new growth will
come and it's just like awonderful I don't know it's not
I was gonna say focal point butit's it could be a focal point
or not depending on what varietybecause there's so many there's
like

Gabe Long (19:41):
an in the church.
Right? It's a focal Miss like anevergreen in that way.

Rebecca (19:46):
But it can be a really nice filler in the summer to you
know, bolder kind of things. Andit's also native.

Gabe Long (19:53):
Yeah, there's a million different colors. I
mean, we have what we have darkpurple, we have bright lime
green. chartreuse chartreuse,

Rebecca (20:02):
you might say, yeah, there's so nice heucheras also
known as coral bells. And it's arelative that you'll also see
who chlorella, which I think isa blend of who Cora and
tiarella, which also is a nativeand is also a favorite of mine
out there right now that's stillgoing strong out there and is

(20:23):
tearing. So great. And we justplanted it this past summer and
it's like a carpet. It's sobeautiful. So happy. It's just
nice to see one of those nativesthat's like, Oh, I know exactly
what I'm doing here. I'm happyto be here. This is my ideal
circumstances, and I'm justgoing to make myself at home
right?

Gabe Long (20:39):
It is a strong argument for that very
practical, like if you plantnatives, you don't have to do a
lot of gardening. It's gonna bethere. It's gonna go well for
you. Yeah, play the antithesisof roses or something. Right,

Rebecca (20:50):
exactly. Yeah, everyone should have some some coral
bells in their garden. I thinkit's like one of those things
like Japanese forest grass thatjust looks good everywhere. And
those two actually go reallynicely together. Yeah, any other
favorite winter plants thatyou're enjoying right now.

Gabe Long (21:08):
I'm just gonna vote again. For the Mountain Laurel.
It's so pretty. It's native.
It's a gorgeous shrub to smalltree in the wild, I think in
like a garden setting usuallytops out at about 15 feet,
beautiful leaves sort of waxy.
Like somehow very, it's like adark green, but it seems like

(21:28):
very bright. At the same time. Idon't quite know how to describe
it. But it's like a verysaturated green. And I guess
it's

Rebecca (21:34):
just really beautiful and like, just a little bit
different. I'm going to go aheadand say if you're thinking about
planting Arbor vitae, orsomething that you need for
privacy, so you're like, Oh, Ineeded to be done in Evergreen.
Oh, our Bravais at Home Depotsaid Arbor Friday. Please Please
plant Mountain Laurel. It'snative. It's beautiful. It's not

(21:54):
as common as Rhododendron orsomething else. It flowers so

Gabe Long (21:58):
beautifully and spring. Oh my god, the flowers
are incredible.

Rebecca (22:01):
You know what I'm really enjoying too. And some of
the plants that are like driedand dead, but have you Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Our Limelight hydrangea isreally nice. All of the blooms
are kind of dried in place onit. And we had our first
snowfall right around Christmastime. Luckily, oh, so nice to
have snow on Christmas amidsteverything that's been such a

(22:24):
shit show this year. Anyway,seeing the snowfall on the
hydrangea dried hydrangeablossoms out there was so
beautiful. And some of thegrasses and stuff I think are
really pretty out there. I don'teven know what what is like so
pretty out there.

Gabe Long (22:38):
Right now Fern spore we called them seed heads. And
then we were like wait for instone have seeds. They're not
seed heads. But the whateverpart of the fern is that kind of
sticks up and has the little Ithink spore dispersal pods
attached to it. They're justthese like little brown husks.
But they're so pretty. And yeah,cool looking that idea of

(22:58):
something for the snow to fallon.

Rebecca (23:00):
Yeah, the Asobi also the blooms of that have dried
and are still sticking up andjust providing a little bit of
texture and back and it's justreally nice and kind of haunted
looking in a cool wintery way Ilove like not doing the winter
cleanup that people do, and justletting it lie and letting the
insects overwinter and stuff.
It's great for the environment.

(23:22):
It's less work for me. Yeah. Andthen you can kind of poke around
and see how the form that thingstake as the top part of the
plant. Material dies and theenergy of the plant is all
resting under the ground. Youcan kind of remember what's
where and

Gabe Long (23:38):
and you're allowed to do your spring cleanup. Once
it's above 50 The insects havehatched and you can you can
still get it's not like you haveto leave it there forever. But
yeah, it is really nice to haveit in the winter. Yeah. I think
we did it.

Rebecca (23:51):
Thanks for listening.
If you have a question that youwant answered on the podcast, we
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(24:14):
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Gabe Long (24:17):
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Rebecca (24:20):
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day. Thanks again for listening.
Happy gardening.

Gabe Long (24:36):
See out there