May 9, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of the Leap to Success Podcast, Mary Gaul is joined by Bonnie Iserman, a dynamic leader and entrepreneur. Bonnie shares her journey through pivotal career transitions and highlights the importance of data, trust, and leadership in navigating challenges. They delve into how entrepreneurs can effectively apply data, integrate play, and resolve workplace conflicts. Bonnie emphasizes the significance of trust-building and collaboration in business, while also discussing her current projects and goals. The conversation touches on addressing heritage and overcoming adverse childhood events, offering strategies for conflict resolution and community engagement. Tune in for insightful reflections and a community invitation.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Hello, and welcome to the Leap to Successpodcast, where we highlight incredible women
entrepreneurs who are taking bold leaps inbusiness and life.
I'm your host, Mary Gahl, and I believe thatsuccess is built through connection,
contribution, and celebration.
In each episode, we bring you inspiringstories, expert insights, and actionable
(00:24):
strategies to help you grow and thrive as anentrepreneur.
So let's dive into today's conversation.
I am so excited and delighted to introduce youto our LEAP community member, Bonnie Iserman.
And I'm so excited for her to get to share herbrilliance with you today.
So, Bonnie, welcome to the show.
(00:46):
Tell our listeners a little bit about yourstory and what makes you so awesome.
Sure.
Excuse me.
Thank you, Mary.
Mhmm.
I really appreciate it and excited to be hereas well.
So what makes me awesome, I will get into that,but I will tell a little bit about my story.
I've spent really over a decade just buildingbridges between people, data, and systems,
(01:08):
through service.
And so I actually started in ministry.
I worked my way through start ups andconsulting, and then eventually, I added
millions to revenue through customer experiencetransformation.
And I believe what makes me awesome is that Ithink I help leaders undiscover curiosity,
which isn't really a workplace thing.
(01:28):
It's it's a personal thing.
It's actually a thing that I think makes us themost unique as individuals is our our actual
curiosity.
So I like to bring that back into play.
I like to unlock engagement and really helppeople build trust, especially when stakes are
high.
So I think my superpower is, like, turningcomplexity into clarity and really turning
(01:49):
vision into measurable outcomes.
I love that.
I love that.
And there's so much for us to dive into there,right, with your story.
And starting in the ministry piece, but thatthread that that goes all the way through now
experience and helping people build trust andall of those things.
Right?
That thread is you are able to help people feela level of comfort, whether you're using the
(02:14):
tech user experience and and making the userexperience for technology better, or you're in
a room with somebody and now working withleaders to help them really show up
authentically and and and, you know, buildthose people skills.
And and it's all about the experience, right,which I love because we need people like that
to help guide us through those those kind ofexperiences where we're not maybe so
(02:37):
comfortable or not showing up our authenticselves and maybe not having fun.
Right?
I love that you brought in play into thatconversation as well.
So so kind of take us through some of thosedefining moments in when you when you made
leaps from one kind of career into the next.
Okay.
(02:57):
Okay.
I I suppose the one key defining moment when Iwent from ministry into more of, like, the
corporate world or, you know, biz the businessworld was I told myself if I'm never in
ministry again, I will serve the vision of theleader in the way that I needed and in a way
that I really would have wanted if I hadsomebody who was very much bought into my
(03:21):
vision.
Because that that should be something that'smore about play and excitement, and it's not
something that you can force.
And so I just told myself, look.
I'm just gonna get to know the vision, and Ithink that'll help me with the day to day
responsibilities.
And that was interesting just because of howquickly it allowed me to absorb and move.
(03:41):
And I didn't, I mean, I didn't realize howquickly I was going to be able to create
different roles in in different organizations.
But, really, in every organization I've beenin, I I have created that.
And, you know, more recently, when I wasworking especially with data, I think there was
a huge defining moment when I was in a roomwith executives, and there was some there was
some managers and directors as well.
(04:01):
But a CEO, in the meeting, he said, you know, Idon't really trust the data, so I don't really
put as much into it.
And the guy in front of them, like, turnedaround, he was like, I use that data every
month and when I go in and I talk to my staff.
And so, you know, that disconnect betweenleaders and, you know, people who rely on these
systems, it kinda lit a fire in me because Inoticed as we were implementing different
(04:23):
technologies that we stop oftentimes once thego live date hits.
And at that point, we've really missed the markon what we acquired the technology to do.
And so leadership turnover oftentimes can bevery high too.
So you go through a process of purchasingsomething that you want to be able to launch.
And does the leader who, you know, reallypushed to have that project, do they have the
(04:46):
support to go forward and really make it golive?
And I think that that actually can impactpeople's lives, their livelihood, and and other
things.
And so when I experienced that in this room, Irecognized more and more it is about data and
dashboards.
People need to be able to be connected.
So regardless of the technologies we're using,what are the key times that we're actually
(05:08):
looking at the data specifically, and how oftenshould that be shown so that someone knows,
hey.
Someone's watching us play ball.
And because of that, we believe that there'sgonna be some credibility here, and we're going
to be able to be engaged.
And so there's a there's a big difference.
And I think I realized I could build somethingthat would help organizations kind of realign
(05:30):
their vision and kinda clarify their trust.
And so that really became the moment oflaunching Execu Communications and then this
working class ace, project that maybe we'lltalk about later.
Okay.
Yes.
I'm excited to dive into those.
I I love what you just said.
We just had a conversation we had earliertoday.
We had the Leap for Ladies lunch and learn.
(05:53):
And one of our discussion topics was what arethe numbers you're looking at in your business?
Right?
So most of us are solopreneurs or maybe have asmall team of people that we're working with.
And what are the numbers that we're looking ateach month?
What is the data that we're looking at in ourbusiness?
And if you're not looking at the data, why not?
Right?
Because there there are some very importantstuff.
(06:14):
And we started with what are the basics, likeprofit and loss.
Right?
What are your expenses?
What's your income coming in?
Those kind of numbers.
And then, you know, each person kind of threwout some other data that they look at, whether
that be their website analytics page and wherethey're tracking traffic to their site, or, you
know, their social media posts and their numberof followers and all of those kind of pieces of
(06:38):
data that they're looking at each month.
Right?
So so in these smaller businesses Right.
We we still have to look at the data, and wehave to be able to know where to find the data
and then trust the data.
Like you said, there can be a disconnectsometimes.
People don't wanna look at the numbers eitherbecause they don't know how to interpret the
numbers or they don't know where to find themconsistently or they don't know what the
(07:01):
numbers are telling them.
And so that's why I think that's we need peoplethat can help us interpret those.
Right?
And then learn to trust them.
And then like you said, be able to have aconsistent dashboard that we're looking at each
month or each week, whatever whatever piece ofdata we're looking at.
How are we looking at that instead of justsaying, you know, for a small business owner,
(07:23):
oh, I've got money in my checking account.
I must be doing okay.
Right?
Instead of knowing what are my profit and loss,what are my expenses each month, and what is
coming up, and those kind of things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think okay.
So you mentioned the small business piecethere.
Mhmm.
I'm I'm not surprised, but I am surprised.
It's often the case, you know, people who arestarting small business, they've got a element
of faith, and they're putting everythingtogether.
(07:46):
And then, you know, they're they're caughtsomewhere between, like, I know I'm starting
this company, and that's kind of the strategy,and that's the vision, and every all of this
stuff is on my desk every single day, and I'mI'm dealing with all of that.
And and sometimes without understanding whatpieces of data might be more valuable to the
organization as it scales, because you'rethinking about this as operational
organizational leadership.
(08:06):
So it often is the case that it's helpful forthem to sit down with somebody and prioritize
what some of those things are because theymight think, you know, this aspect of the
business is an important when in realityimpacts everything.
And one Yes.
Particular that I think I have noticed the mostin any organization that I've worked in is that
whoever is the person answering for theproject, let's say, whoever's the owner of that
(08:31):
project, it's often the case that I've had toencourage them to advocate for support.
Even if it was, like, you know, maybe fiveminutes, twenty minutes, thirty minutes, an
hour, a week.
But I just noticed this often, and and I wouldalways get, like, this huge resistance at
first.
Like, look.
We don't have any people that we can help.
We don't have anybody else that can support.
(08:51):
But I recognize that there's there's gotta be afluidity between the strategy, the main leader,
and then the front line.
And, you know, what that looks like, obviously,in in big organizations, they begin to get
communication really, really locked in.
But what that looks like here is that theindividual who's leading that business has got
to be communicating.
Yes.
And seeing people know he sees them or or shesees them and and rewarding the good behavior.
(09:15):
And so there's some there's some elements to tothe entire dynamic that just really matter.
Yes.
Yes.
It's it's great.
And, you know, we do have to learn to know yournumbers.
I always say this with my small businessowners.
Better data gives you better decisions, equalsbetter decisions.
Right?
So the more you have your information, yournumbers, and you know you can trust those
(09:37):
numbers, then you can make better decisions foryour business.
Okay.
I Mary, and gotta say, like, it's actuallyhelpful because when you're afraid to look at
the numbers and you actually end up looking atthem, you recognize how much they support you
in the work that you need to do because they'rethey're foundational in that, look.
This isn't just my opinion.
This is what the data is telling us, and we'recrushing it.
(09:58):
Or, you know, we Yeah.
But to your point, yeah, it's important.
Right.
At least you know where you're maybe laggingbehind and you need to put some focus.
Right?
So I wanna talk to you about this element ofplay that you are trying to bring back into the
workplace, especially the corporate world.
Right?
So how are how are you tying that into thevision and really owning in?
(10:23):
I I love what you said earlier where you'vebeen able to go into the corporate world and
you because you're so attached to the visionand you can believe in the vision, that's
helped you in the daily routine of your work.
And that isn't always the case, especially inlarger organizations where there's this vision
maybe on the wall when you walk in the door,but it doesn't really translate into how the
(10:45):
work gets done.
And so how do you help people, whether they'rea small organization or a large organization,
really help their their teams buy into thevision?
Yeah.
This is so great.
Well, so it's interesting because I think thatwhen it comes to vision, there's a purpose
driven piece to it that know, when anindividual is able to find what it is that
(11:07):
they're passionate about, and I believe you canfind things within the work that you do that
you're passionate about doing well, and, youknow, rank yourself against your you doing
those things.
But you've gotta have some meaning behind whyyou're doing what you're doing, and you've got
to understand that, first off, you know, thisthis overall concept that as I'm pursuing
something that's meaningful, life is actually,you know, a lot more better.
(11:30):
And and and, in fact, not only that, I cansucceed.
Yes.
And I'm I've got the support to succeed, and ifI don't, I will.
So I think that there's that, but I alsobelieve that I bring a bit of an energy around
that idea.
Mhmm.
And I don't really know why.
That's just kind of how I'm prepared.
And so I think I'm a bit I'm inspiredpersonally.
(11:51):
I'm passionate.
You know, I get excited about things.
I get really geeked out about things.
And when you talked when you mentioned theelement of play, I think it's incredibly
important.
I think it's incredibly important, and I wantto share more about that.
But I will also say this, I think I inspirepeople in their confidence in being able to try
and risk new things that happen to probably bebetter than what they thought that was
(12:14):
expected.
And that, I think, is a big thing that I dowith any organization that I work in is I'm
attempting to inspire their younger leaders ortheir leaders that are more entry level to
recognize that oftentimes your fear of whatthey want you to produce, your fear that it
won't look good enough gets in the way of yourcreativity to make it better than what they
(12:36):
had.
Yes.
That you can do that more than you realize.
And so, you know, I think there's there's someattitude shifts that I help in, especially when
it comes to negotiating for, like, let's say,more pay.
You know, I I've seen a lot of different thingsin in the industry.
I've seen people who are like, I'm not gonna doit anymore if I'm not being paid.
(12:59):
Right.
These weren't always people I worked with, but,you know, you've got you've got your different
networks.
Well, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do more ifthey're not paying me or, okay.
I'll ask for this raise, but if they don't giveit to me, then forget it.
Like, I'm Right.
I'm sitting essentially.
And I think that you need to go in to thatconversation with your attitude and your mind
made
up Mhmm.
About how you're going to behave afterwards.
(13:19):
You you've got to answer mostly to yourselffirst.
Yeah.
You're gonna be true to yourself.
And I do recognize that kinda what we put outdoes come back.
And and I'll say to that point, there have beentimes in my leadership where I was maybe going
too fast or I was too hung up on, you know, anidea or a vision that I don't think I always
handled things well.
(13:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So creativity is is very, very impactful, andit has a lot to do with, I think, even conflict
resolution.
But creativity and play are so closely aligned,and they're very closely aligned with with
curiosity too.
Yes.
It's a it's a game.
It's essentially you know, life in a way is abit of a game in that, you know, people either
(14:01):
wanna play with you or they don't.
You think about, like, going to the playgroundat recess or whatever that might look like is
if you're a great playmate, people wanna keepplaying.
You know?
And Yes.
And there's also another game that you canplay, and it's a power game.
And that's really a game where it's win lose.
It's a very skill based game.
Whereas play is like, how can we make you thiswin for you and for you and for you?
(14:24):
I don't know yet, but I'm gonna look for that.
How can we have both over one or the other?
Yes.
You know?
And so I think I think that there's anambiguity an ambiguous space when it comes to
creativity where you're taking in informationand determining, like, what what could this be?
And then there's some rules.
Yeah.
And there's rules on the playground.
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So it's like, don't be a jerk.
I I personally, I like the rules of chess.
You know?
Yeah.
Don't be a poor sport.
Shake your hand.
You know?
Thank your opponent.
Thank your contender.
And recognize when you when I'm saying thankyour contender, I'm also just thinking about
the circumstances of life because it's oftenthe case that those are produced from things
that we haven't personally addressed.
(15:06):
And so when we are overwhelmed with the withthe circumstances in our life, if we can take a
moment to reflect and consider how we might beable to improve our reaction to that situation
because perhaps that's what's really drivingit, now we begin to kind of slay that dragon, I
guess, as they say.
So Yes.
Carl Jung said that the creation of somethingnew isn't it does not come out of the
(15:30):
intellect, but out of the play instinct.
The creative plays with the object it loves.
Oh, nice.
I think that goes back to curiosity.
It goes back to love.
And if you're cleaning a floor, you can do thatto the best of your ability and be proud of
that and come back and look at that.
And Right.
So I think that's one piece.
And then the other piece would be service.
(15:52):
Like, serving without kind of a chip on yourshoulder.
So being willing to do the extra work.
Maybe you don't get the credit, but you sureget the learning.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
And I'm creativity is one of my and fun are twoof my top five values.
Right?
So I love finding a way.
How can I make this fun?
(16:13):
How can I be creative in whatever work I'mdoing?
And, you know, how can I create I love tocreate that collaboration, those win win
situations, right, for for my clients?
And I love to see that in others.
I have two clients who are just nowcollaborating on a big project together, and it
just makes me so happy to see them workingtogether and being in alignment with what they
(16:35):
both want to achieve with their businesses.
Right?
So it's really important to find those peoplethat you can play with.
Right?
And that you choose to play with, and thenNice.
Establishing those rules.
Right?
We're both gonna behave like professionalbusiness people, and here's what I'm gonna do,
here's what you're gonna agree to do, and let'smake that agreement, and then let's move
forward.
(16:55):
Right?
So I think that's such a basic thing, but it'ssometimes we need to talk about it again
instead of making the assumption that the otherpeople all think the same way we do.
I mean, that's that's actually exactlyaccurate.
Mhmm.
So you just talked about trust.
Mhmm.
And trust on both sides.
We can agree that we're looking at the sameitem of trust between our relationship.
(17:16):
That can be that can be on a head on a bigcontinuum when it comes to some sort of, like,
principle based negotiation.
Because on the one hand, you can be anindividual who, you know, is, like, very, like,
faith driven and we don't need anything inwriting, and I'm gonna have your back.
You're gonna have my back.
We're gonna we're gonna be courageouslygenerous.
And on the other side, you can have someone whowants to get everything in writing all the time
(17:40):
no matter what.
And, you know, there's blind spots for bothsides.
Right.
As I'm thinking in terms of principle andyou're talking about who are we playing with?
Who do we wanna play with?
Mhmm.
You you ask yourself on this on this continuum,if I was doing business with or in family with
an individual on this continuum, where would Iwant them to be for it to be the most ideal
(18:00):
scenario?
Yeah.
And I like to, like, think about that, and Ibelieve that the answer is you want someone
with both.
You want someone to balance both over one orthe other.
Right.
Right. You're
You're right the
fact that Yeah.
Right about the fact that you've got to reallyblend it in, and it may be the case that you're
a very faith based individual who wants tokinda do a handshake, and you need to be very
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it needs you need to understand the principlesthat drive an individual who wants to get
things in writing and you know?
Yeah.
Yes.
And as long as you know that about each otheragain, this comes down to, I think, that that
curiosity at the beginning of any workingrelationship and saying, let me find out about
this person.
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Are they the kind of person that needseverything in writing, or are they the kind of
person that needs more detail or less detail,or they wanna have meetings every week and or
once a month.
Right?
So that curiosity comes back, and I and I andthere's fun ways to to learn about somebody
too.
Right?
It doesn't have to be check this box.
(19:03):
Let me learn all these things about you.
But that can be part of the fun of learning towork with somebody new, really getting to know
them and being curious about how they work,what are their work styles, how can you work
with them to support them, but also maintainyour boundaries.
Right?
So we don't wanna It's
not a bad thing if they have preferences.
For you to care about somebody's preferences isfor you to well, that's for you to serve them
(19:29):
in a way.
Right.
You know?
And so it's not as big of a it's not as heavyof a lift as we think, and in fact, it means a
lot.
Of course, there are lot of people who Mhmm.
In many cases don't have preferences.
Maybe they've never even had the opportunity,and so that's for them.
They've never been asked.
Right?
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(19:49):
It's interesting because we but we are we arecreatures that can mimic.
Mhmm.
And if you're out to learn and your intentionsare good and you see incredible leaders that
you would like to model the behavior after,oftentimes, sometime no.
Oftentimes, when you're trying to modelbehavior that you don't fully understand, the
understanding needs to come with it.
And you mentioned, like, having fun.
(20:11):
So there would be times that I would be meetingwith teams.
Before we would get started, I'd say, look.
Look.
We're gonna go around and do a fun fact.
And, obviously, you know, to your point, youwanna be creative about that.
Yeah.
People would share stuff, and they they wouldbe surprised.
They'd be talking to each other.
Like, oh, I didn't know that you did that.
I didn't know that you that.
And so I think if you can get people to lightup at least once in maybe your interaction with
(20:34):
them or you can take them somewhere in a waythat gives them a little bit more skill and a
little bit more even self control, then you'reable to have a great interaction.
Yes.
Love that.
Love that.
I want to go to some of the leaps, right, thatyou've taken.
(20:58):
And you've been through a wide variety ofindustries and and people that you've worked
with and levels that you've worked with.
But but what are some of the exciting projectsand goals that you've got going on right now
that you wanna share with our listeners?
Yeah.
I mean, that's perfect.
That's a great question.
So one one project that I'm especially excitedabout is actually a principle based negotiation
(21:21):
test assessment that I'm developing and builtaround the idea that there are patterns that
are really more a form of math when it comes toconflict.
And we've, I believe, stripped math a bit outof the emotional intelligence space for far too
long.
And so I'm really testing whether we canimprove somebody's conflict navigation, not by
(21:41):
increasing their emotional sensitivity oradding even to that word bank necessarily, but
by using measurable pattern based approachesthat reduce harm, I think, and minimize
suffering.
So I will kinda pause there and share why thatmatters deeply to me.
And, of course, we can talk more about it.
But, you know, I've I've worked with and I workwith and advocate for people who've really been
(22:05):
heavily impacted by trauma.
Mhmm.
And I think that that seems to be one of thebiggest, if not the biggest, indicators of an
individual's success later on in life is whatadverse events were they exposed to or not
exposed to, and how does that impact them.
And so, you know, many people are reallytrapped not only in silence, but in poverty,
(22:27):
and they can't afford therapy.
They can't afford coaches or polished language.
And, you know, if we could kinda give themsomething that's measurable, could improve
their conflict game, I believe that there aremany individuals that have a heart for
integrity and creativity and growth and thosetypes of things.
But when they're hitting the conflict aroundthem as they're attempting to grow and and
(22:50):
improve Mhmm.
Maybe they don't always show up properly, andthat was certainly the case with me.
Excuse me.
For years, I was like, I just don't get thelanguage.
You know?
Yeah.
I'm learning to kinda create datasets forpeople to personally interact with and
contribute.
But I also, in this project, would really likecommunity members to be able to contribute to
(23:10):
the work publicly and even look through thedata publicly to capture their own
understanding of, well, of what they see, andthat's the curiosity in the data.
So I actually believe in this instance, itreally is a measurable reduction in suffering.
I love that.
I love that.
And on whatever level, but but conflict is suchan it's such a heightened emotion period.
(23:36):
Right?
Any conflict.
And there's people that try to avoid it at allcosts, and then that that harms them because
they're not showing up and and advocating forthemselves necessarily.
Or there are people that are constantly lookingfor conflict and just pushing that button in
others.
Right?
So so having some tools that anyone can use isso powerful.
(23:58):
So I I love that that you're you're buildingthat model and those those tools.
You mentioned that people in your communitycould kind of give you some feedback or or help
with the datasets.
We will have, if you have a link, we'll put itin our show notes for everybody to be able to
reach out to you and follow along with thatproject as you keep developing it because that
(24:20):
that can be really just such a game changer onso many levels for people.
Right?
If they're able to have this conflictresolution tool and able to negotiate with
their boss for time off or a pay raise or, youknow, the next level promotion, those kind of
things can be life changing for families,right, for generations to come.
(24:42):
So Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, like, the people in your life thatthis, I believe I'm calling it right now
heritage for the working class ACE because ACEwas a study that was done on by Kaiser over a
extended period of time on individuals who werefacing adverse childhood events and what how
that impacted them in the future.
And I really wanna help educate people on databecause we've got more access to data than
(25:05):
we've ever had.
Mhmm.
And I really like that the way that data tellsa story, if you're really looking at it, gives
you insight from so many different directionsbecause, you know, for let's say for the ACE
thing, it it basically ranks you at one to 10on how adverse your childhood was.
And then it kind of data has a way of being twodifferent points that connect at a certain
time.
And so it follows these people, you know, overa period of time, and then it says not so much
(25:29):
that, okay, if you're an ace of a seven, you'regonna you're definitely gonna deal with these
things, but that those who had a seven moreoften dealt with this Right.
And so I believe that that's an importantpiece.
And the other important piece is just that whenit comes to heritage, it seems to me heritage
is something that's passed down
Mhmm.
In in order to help you deal with the world.
(25:51):
And we're struggling to know what to do,especially those who come from adverse
childhood.
So so I just wanna give one example.
So let's say that you're a kid who got hitevery time that they were asked a question.
Mhmm.
You're gonna go into the adult world and maybebe offended almost when other people are asking
the boss questions and confused, and and andyou won't really know.
(26:14):
You won't really recognize.
Look.
Now I'm with my peers, and there are certainthings I need to say.
And there are certain there's a certain way ofcarrying myself where I actually could say no,
have a positive outcome, and support myselfbetter, and not have to work so hard.
So heritage would be like, how do I navigatethe future?
Some people, when they deal with adverseevents, they don't have they don't have the map
(26:37):
for how to build relationships.
Yeah.
So
I think what this does is it just gives alittle bit better better of a map so you can
determine.
The other thing was you mentioned needing theseconversations maybe with your boss or with
someone else.
But one thing I wanna make very, very clear toyou is one of the biggest factors in this
research that I'm doing is not so much thosewho want conflict, but those who are unable to
(27:00):
step away when the conflict shows up becausethey're baited into it or something.
And and by baited into it, I'm not saying thatthey're not part of the problem.
If you're in a conflict, you're part of theproblem, and you've gotta figure out how to
work it out.
But your ability to step away stops enablingthat situation.
Yeah.
And so I really think that people need kind ofat bats around an ability to politely step away
(27:22):
and handle some of those interactions.
And what I'm doing research on is what is themost simplistic tools I can give to people so
they can both disengage when it's gonna be verywill based, engage when it's gonna be principle
based negotiation, and play for the most part.
Nice.
And they can find me @execucommunications.com.
Okay.
Great.
(27:43):
And, again, we'll have all the links in theshow notes so that we can get those out to
everybody.
And if you're listening or watching this, youcan go to the show notes, whatever platform
you're on, and be able to find Bonnie'sinformation and be able to connect with her.
She has so many gifts to offer.
And, whether that be in the corporate world andhelping the executor executives really hone in
(28:04):
on what is the vision and how do we filter thatdown.
Right?
And getting everyone kind of I hate to use theword bought in because that's such a eighties,
nineties word, but that's what it is.
Right?
Getting everybody engaged.
Right.
And then building out this new dataset, Ithink, is gonna be such an valuable valuable
valuable tool for people who need that extrabit of help.
(28:28):
And it you know, we just we don't have classestaught to us in in our school systems about how
to build these more soft skills.
Right?
How to handle conflict and how to haveconversations that we need to have.
How to be curious instead of, you know,squashing that down.
We need to encourage that.
(28:49):
So Well and I and I don't mean I don't mean tointerrupt.
Obviously, I get excited.
Go ahead.
But you said that, you know, we don't have thetools.
In fact, we're not given the tools in school.
And then I think from what I've understood isthat where you do get those tools is when you
maybe get arrested or you end up in the courtsystem, and then the court attempting to teach
(29:10):
you competencies you didn't learn.
So what that tells me is there's a shadow inour society of people who don't have the
competence, but they're not yet in jail.
Mhmm.
It'd be better if we could create something toprevent that rather than creating things that
are programs on the on the off on the otherside of that.
And
Yes.
You can give people the tools to do a littlebit better.
(29:30):
And it can take a few bricks off their chest.
That's measurable reduction in suffering, but Ithink we'll be able to show with the data that
we can do it.
And perhaps if we're tracking that alongsideACE numbers for individuals who are willing to
be part of the research research program, thenwhat we can do is map that among all of the ACE
data and then give maybe a database for peopleto begin to to look.
(29:52):
And and maybe in terms of heritage for the ACE,I don't know.
But, you know, let's say you've got someonewho's a seven or a nine.
Maybe there's, like, a a poster board orthere's, like, a board where they can say, hey.
This is where I this is what I've been through.
You got this.
You know?
You can do it.
You're so
good for me and things like that.
But I think I think it'll be very useful.
Yes.
(30:13):
So much potential there.
So much potential there, Bonnie.
I just love the work that you're doing and,again, matching the data with the human side
and then putting some play around it, allwrapping it all in play.
I just love that philosophy.
So keep up the good work, and like I said,reach out to Bonnie.
If any of that resonates with you, all of thatwill be in the intro in the show notes.
(30:36):
So that is our time for today.
So that's a wrap on today's episode of the leapto success podcast.
I hope that you found inspiration, motivation,and a few golden nuggets to take with you on
your journey.
If you love the conversation that Bonnie and Ihad today, be sure to subscribe on whatever
platform you're listening to this on so thatyou never miss an episode.
(30:59):
If Bonnie's message resonated with you, pleaseshow her some love by sharing this episode with
your community.
And remember, you can find all of her contactinformation in the show notes on whatever
platform you're listening or watching today.
If you wanna go deeper and join us inside theLEAP community where you get to interact with
wonder wonderful women just like Bonnie, You'llfind even more resources, connections, and
(31:24):
opportunities to show up and grow.
You can visit it us on successmagnified.combackslash leap for ladies to learn more.
Until next time, keep taking those bold steps,contributing your gifts, and celebrating your
successes.
Thanks so much, Bonnie.
Thanks, Mary.
Hello, and welcome to the Leap to Successpodcast, where we highlight incredible women
entrepreneurs who are taking bold leaps inbusiness and life.
I'm your host, Mary Gahl, and I believe thatsuccess is built through connection,
contribution, and celebration.
In each episode, we bring you inspiringstories, expert insights, and actionable
(00:24):
strategies to help you grow and thrive as anentrepreneur.
So let's dive into today's conversation.
I am so excited and delighted to introduce youto our LEAP community member, Bonnie Iserman.
And I'm so excited for her to get to share herbrilliance with you today.
So, Bonnie, welcome to the show.
(00:46):
Tell our listeners a little bit about yourstory and what makes you so awesome.
Sure.
Excuse me.
Thank you, Mary.
Mhmm.
I really appreciate it and excited to be hereas well.
So what makes me awesome, I will get into that,but I will tell a little bit about my story.
I've spent really over a decade just buildingbridges between people, data, and systems,
(01:08):
through service.
And so I actually started in ministry.
I worked my way through start ups andconsulting, and then eventually, I added
millions to revenue through customer experiencetransformation.
And I believe what makes me awesome is that Ithink I help leaders undiscover curiosity,
which isn't really a workplace thing.
(01:28):
It's it's a personal thing.
It's actually a thing that I think makes us themost unique as individuals is our our actual
curiosity.
So I like to bring that back into play.
I like to unlock engagement and really helppeople build trust, especially when stakes are
high.
So I think my superpower is, like, turningcomplexity into clarity and really turning
(01:49):
vision into measurable outcomes.
I love that.
I love that.
And there's so much for us to dive into there,right, with your story.
And starting in the ministry piece, but thatthread that that goes all the way through now
experience and helping people build trust andall of those things.
Right?
That thread is you are able to help people feela level of comfort, whether you're using the
(02:14):
tech user experience and and making the userexperience for technology better, or you're in
a room with somebody and now working withleaders to help them really show up
authentically and and and, you know, buildthose people skills.
And and it's all about the experience, right,which I love because we need people like that
to help guide us through those those kind ofexperiences where we're not maybe so
(02:37):
comfortable or not showing up our authenticselves and maybe not having fun.
Right?
I love that you brought in play into thatconversation as well.
So so kind of take us through some of thosedefining moments in when you when you made
leaps from one kind of career into the next.
Okay.
(02:57):
Okay.
I I suppose the one key defining moment when Iwent from ministry into more of, like, the
corporate world or, you know, biz the businessworld was I told myself if I'm never in
ministry again, I will serve the vision of theleader in the way that I needed and in a way
that I really would have wanted if I hadsomebody who was very much bought into my
(03:21):
vision.
Because that that should be something that'smore about play and excitement, and it's not
something that you can force.
And so I just told myself, look.
I'm just gonna get to know the vision, and Ithink that'll help me with the day to day
responsibilities.
And that was interesting just because of howquickly it allowed me to absorb and move.
(03:41):
And I didn't, I mean, I didn't realize howquickly I was going to be able to create
different roles in in different organizations.
But, really, in every organization I've beenin, I I have created that.
And, you know, more recently, when I wasworking especially with data, I think there was
a huge defining moment when I was in a roomwith executives, and there was some there was
some managers and directors as well.
(04:01):
But a CEO, in the meeting, he said, you know, Idon't really trust the data, so I don't really
put as much into it.
And the guy in front of them, like, turnedaround, he was like, I use that data every
month and when I go in and I talk to my staff.
And so, you know, that disconnect betweenleaders and, you know, people who rely on these
systems, it kinda lit a fire in me because Inoticed as we were implementing different
(04:23):
technologies that we stop oftentimes once thego live date hits.
And at that point, we've really missed the markon what we acquired the technology to do.
And so leadership turnover oftentimes can bevery high too.
So you go through a process of purchasingsomething that you want to be able to launch.
And does the leader who, you know, reallypushed to have that project, do they have the
(04:46):
support to go forward and really make it golive?
And I think that that actually can impactpeople's lives, their livelihood, and and other
things.
And so when I experienced that in this room, Irecognized more and more it is about data and
dashboards.
People need to be able to be connected.
So regardless of the technologies we're using,what are the key times that we're actually
(05:08):
looking at the data specifically, and how oftenshould that be shown so that someone knows,
hey.
Someone's watching us play ball.
And because of that, we believe that there'sgonna be some credibility here, and we're going
to be able to be engaged.
And so there's a there's a big difference.
And I think I realized I could build somethingthat would help organizations kind of realign
(05:30):
their vision and kinda clarify their trust.
And so that really became the moment oflaunching Execu Communications and then this
working class ace, project that maybe we'lltalk about later.
Okay.
Yes.
I'm excited to dive into those.
I I love what you just said.
We just had a conversation we had earliertoday.
We had the Leap for Ladies lunch and learn.
(05:53):
And one of our discussion topics was what arethe numbers you're looking at in your business?
Right?
So most of us are solopreneurs or maybe have asmall team of people that we're working with.
And what are the numbers that we're looking ateach month?
What is the data that we're looking at in ourbusiness?
And if you're not looking at the data, why not?
Right?
Because there there are some very importantstuff.
(06:14):
And we started with what are the basics, likeprofit and loss.
Right?
What are your expenses?
What's your income coming in?
Those kind of numbers.
And then, you know, each person kind of threwout some other data that they look at, whether
that be their website analytics page and wherethey're tracking traffic to their site, or, you
know, their social media posts and their numberof followers and all of those kind of pieces of
(06:38):
data that they're looking at each month.
Right?
So so in these smaller businesses Right.
We we still have to look at the data, and wehave to be able to know where to find the data
and then trust the data.
Like you said, there can be a disconnectsometimes.
People don't wanna look at the numbers eitherbecause they don't know how to interpret the
numbers or they don't know where to find themconsistently or they don't know what the
(07:01):
numbers are telling them.
And so that's why I think that's we need peoplethat can help us interpret those.
Right?
And then learn to trust them.
And then like you said, be able to have aconsistent dashboard that we're looking at each
month or each week, whatever whatever piece ofdata we're looking at.
How are we looking at that instead of justsaying, you know, for a small business owner,
(07:23):
oh, I've got money in my checking account.
I must be doing okay.
Right?
Instead of knowing what are my profit and loss,what are my expenses each month, and what is
coming up, and those kind of things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think okay.
So you mentioned the small business piecethere.
Mhmm.
I'm I'm not surprised, but I am surprised.
It's often the case, you know, people who arestarting small business, they've got a element
of faith, and they're putting everythingtogether.
(07:46):
And then, you know, they're they're caughtsomewhere between, like, I know I'm starting
this company, and that's kind of the strategy,and that's the vision, and every all of this
stuff is on my desk every single day, and I'mI'm dealing with all of that.
And and sometimes without understanding whatpieces of data might be more valuable to the
organization as it scales, because you'rethinking about this as operational
organizational leadership.
(08:06):
So it often is the case that it's helpful forthem to sit down with somebody and prioritize
what some of those things are because theymight think, you know, this aspect of the
business is an important when in realityimpacts everything.
And one Yes.
Particular that I think I have noticed the mostin any organization that I've worked in is that
whoever is the person answering for theproject, let's say, whoever's the owner of that
(08:31):
project, it's often the case that I've had toencourage them to advocate for support.
Even if it was, like, you know, maybe fiveminutes, twenty minutes, thirty minutes, an
hour, a week.
But I just noticed this often, and and I wouldalways get, like, this huge resistance at
first.
Like, look.
We don't have any people that we can help.
We don't have anybody else that can support.
(08:51):
But I recognize that there's there's gotta be afluidity between the strategy, the main leader,
and then the front line.
And, you know, what that looks like, obviously,in in big organizations, they begin to get
communication really, really locked in.
But what that looks like here is that theindividual who's leading that business has got
to be communicating.
Yes.
And seeing people know he sees them or or shesees them and and rewarding the good behavior.
(09:15):
And so there's some there's some elements to tothe entire dynamic that just really matter.
Yes.
Yes.
It's it's great.
And, you know, we do have to learn to know yournumbers.
I always say this with my small businessowners.
Better data gives you better decisions, equalsbetter decisions.
Right?
So the more you have your information, yournumbers, and you know you can trust those
(09:37):
numbers, then you can make better decisions foryour business.
Okay.
I Mary, and gotta say, like, it's actuallyhelpful because when you're afraid to look at
the numbers and you actually end up looking atthem, you recognize how much they support you
in the work that you need to do because they'rethey're foundational in that, look.
This isn't just my opinion.
This is what the data is telling us, and we'recrushing it.
(09:58):
Or, you know, we Yeah.
But to your point, yeah, it's important.
Right.
At least you know where you're maybe laggingbehind and you need to put some focus.
Right?
So I wanna talk to you about this element ofplay that you are trying to bring back into the
workplace, especially the corporate world.
Right?
So how are how are you tying that into thevision and really owning in?
(10:23):
I I love what you said earlier where you'vebeen able to go into the corporate world and
you because you're so attached to the visionand you can believe in the vision, that's
helped you in the daily routine of your work.
And that isn't always the case, especially inlarger organizations where there's this vision
maybe on the wall when you walk in the door,but it doesn't really translate into how the
(10:45):
work gets done.
And so how do you help people, whether they'rea small organization or a large organization,
really help their their teams buy into thevision?
Yeah.
This is so great.
Well, so it's interesting because I think thatwhen it comes to vision, there's a purpose
driven piece to it that know, when anindividual is able to find what it is that
(11:07):
they're passionate about, and I believe you canfind things within the work that you do that
you're passionate about doing well, and, youknow, rank yourself against your you doing
those things.
But you've gotta have some meaning behind whyyou're doing what you're doing, and you've got
to understand that, first off, you know, thisthis overall concept that as I'm pursuing
something that's meaningful, life is actually,you know, a lot more better.
(11:30):
And and and, in fact, not only that, I cansucceed.
Yes.
And I'm I've got the support to succeed, and ifI don't, I will.
So I think that there's that, but I alsobelieve that I bring a bit of an energy around
that idea.
Mhmm.
And I don't really know why.
That's just kind of how I'm prepared.
And so I think I'm a bit I'm inspiredpersonally.
(11:51):
I'm passionate.
You know, I get excited about things.
I get really geeked out about things.
And when you talked when you mentioned theelement of play, I think it's incredibly
important.
I think it's incredibly important, and I wantto share more about that.
But I will also say this, I think I inspirepeople in their confidence in being able to try
and risk new things that happen to probably bebetter than what they thought that was
(12:14):
expected.
And that, I think, is a big thing that I dowith any organization that I work in is I'm
attempting to inspire their younger leaders ortheir leaders that are more entry level to
recognize that oftentimes your fear of whatthey want you to produce, your fear that it
won't look good enough gets in the way of yourcreativity to make it better than what they
(12:36):
had.
Yes.
That you can do that more than you realize.
And so, you know, I think there's there's someattitude shifts that I help in, especially when
it comes to negotiating for, like, let's say,more pay.
You know, I I've seen a lot of different thingsin in the industry.
I've seen people who are like, I'm not gonna doit anymore if I'm not being paid.
(12:59):
Right.
These weren't always people I worked with, but,you know, you've got you've got your different
networks.
Well, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do more ifthey're not paying me or, okay.
I'll ask for this raise, but if they don't giveit to me, then forget it.
Like, I'm Right.
I'm sitting essentially.
And I think that you need to go in to thatconversation with your attitude and your mind
made
up Mhmm.
About how you're going to behave afterwards.
(13:19):
You you've got to answer mostly to yourselffirst.
Yeah.
You're gonna be true to yourself.
And I do recognize that kinda what we put outdoes come back.
And and I'll say to that point, there have beentimes in my leadership where I was maybe going
too fast or I was too hung up on, you know, anidea or a vision that I don't think I always
handled things well.
(13:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So creativity is is very, very impactful, andit has a lot to do with, I think, even conflict
resolution.
But creativity and play are so closely aligned,and they're very closely aligned with with
curiosity too.
Yes.
It's a it's a game.
It's essentially you know, life in a way is abit of a game in that, you know, people either
(14:01):
wanna play with you or they don't.
You think about, like, going to the playgroundat recess or whatever that might look like is
if you're a great playmate, people wanna keepplaying.
You know?
And Yes.
And there's also another game that you canplay, and it's a power game.
And that's really a game where it's win lose.
It's a very skill based game.
Whereas play is like, how can we make you thiswin for you and for you and for you?
(14:24):
I don't know yet, but I'm gonna look for that.
How can we have both over one or the other?
Yes.
You know?
And so I think I think that there's anambiguity an ambiguous space when it comes to
creativity where you're taking in informationand determining, like, what what could this be?
And then there's some rules.
Yeah.
And there's rules on the playground.
(14:45):
So it's like, don't be a jerk.
I I personally, I like the rules of chess.
You know?
Yeah.
Don't be a poor sport.
Shake your hand.
You know?
Thank your opponent.
Thank your contender.
And recognize when you when I'm saying thankyour contender, I'm also just thinking about
the circumstances of life because it's oftenthe case that those are produced from things
that we haven't personally addressed.
(15:06):
And so when we are overwhelmed with the withthe circumstances in our life, if we can take a
moment to reflect and consider how we might beable to improve our reaction to that situation
because perhaps that's what's really drivingit, now we begin to kind of slay that dragon, I
guess, as they say.
So Yes.
Carl Jung said that the creation of somethingnew isn't it does not come out of the
(15:30):
intellect, but out of the play instinct.
The creative plays with the object it loves.
Oh, nice.
I think that goes back to curiosity.
It goes back to love.
And if you're cleaning a floor, you can do thatto the best of your ability and be proud of
that and come back and look at that.
And Right.
So I think that's one piece.
And then the other piece would be service.
(15:52):
Like, serving without kind of a chip on yourshoulder.
So being willing to do the extra work.
Maybe you don't get the credit, but you sureget the learning.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
And I'm creativity is one of my and fun are twoof my top five values.
Right?
So I love finding a way.
How can I make this fun?
(16:13):
How can I be creative in whatever work I'mdoing?
And, you know, how can I create I love tocreate that collaboration, those win win
situations, right, for for my clients?
And I love to see that in others.
I have two clients who are just nowcollaborating on a big project together, and it
just makes me so happy to see them workingtogether and being in alignment with what they
(16:35):
both want to achieve with their businesses.
Right?
So it's really important to find those peoplethat you can play with.
Right?
And that you choose to play with, and thenNice.
Establishing those rules.
Right?
We're both gonna behave like professionalbusiness people, and here's what I'm gonna do,
here's what you're gonna agree to do, and let'smake that agreement, and then let's move
forward.
(16:55):
Right?
So I think that's such a basic thing, but it'ssometimes we need to talk about it again
instead of making the assumption that the otherpeople all think the same way we do.
I mean, that's that's actually exactlyaccurate.
Mhmm.
So you just talked about trust.
Mhmm.
And trust on both sides.
We can agree that we're looking at the sameitem of trust between our relationship.
(17:16):
That can be that can be on a head on a bigcontinuum when it comes to some sort of, like,
principle based negotiation.
Because on the one hand, you can be anindividual who, you know, is, like, very, like,
faith driven and we don't need anything inwriting, and I'm gonna have your back.
You're gonna have my back.
We're gonna we're gonna be courageouslygenerous.
And on the other side, you can have someone whowants to get everything in writing all the time
(17:40):
no matter what.
And, you know, there's blind spots for bothsides.
Right.
As I'm thinking in terms of principle andyou're talking about who are we playing with?
Who do we wanna play with?
Mhmm.
You you ask yourself on this on this continuum,if I was doing business with or in family with
an individual on this continuum, where would Iwant them to be for it to be the most ideal
(18:00):
scenario?
Yeah.
And I like to, like, think about that, and Ibelieve that the answer is you want someone
with both.
You want someone to balance both over one orthe other.
Right.
Right. You're
You're right the
fact that Yeah.
Right about the fact that you've got to reallyblend it in, and it may be the case that you're
a very faith based individual who wants tokinda do a handshake, and you need to be very
(18:22):
it needs you need to understand the principlesthat drive an individual who wants to get
things in writing and you know?
Yeah.
Yes.
And as long as you know that about each otheragain, this comes down to, I think, that that
curiosity at the beginning of any workingrelationship and saying, let me find out about
this person.
(18:43):
Are they the kind of person that needseverything in writing, or are they the kind of
person that needs more detail or less detail,or they wanna have meetings every week and or
once a month.
Right?
So that curiosity comes back, and I and I andthere's fun ways to to learn about somebody
too.
Right?
It doesn't have to be check this box.
(19:03):
Let me learn all these things about you.
But that can be part of the fun of learning towork with somebody new, really getting to know
them and being curious about how they work,what are their work styles, how can you work
with them to support them, but also maintainyour boundaries.
Right?
So we don't wanna It's
not a bad thing if they have preferences.
For you to care about somebody's preferences isfor you to well, that's for you to serve them
(19:29):
in a way.
Right.
You know?
And so it's not as big of a it's not as heavyof a lift as we think, and in fact, it means a
lot.
Of course, there are lot of people who Mhmm.
In many cases don't have preferences.
Maybe they've never even had the opportunity,and so that's for them.
They've never been asked.
Right?
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(19:49):
It's interesting because we but we are we arecreatures that can mimic.
Mhmm.
And if you're out to learn and your intentionsare good and you see incredible leaders that
you would like to model the behavior after,oftentimes, sometime no.
Oftentimes, when you're trying to modelbehavior that you don't fully understand, the
understanding needs to come with it.
And you mentioned, like, having fun.
(20:11):
So there would be times that I would be meetingwith teams.
Before we would get started, I'd say, look.
Look.
We're gonna go around and do a fun fact.
And, obviously, you know, to your point, youwanna be creative about that.
Yeah.
People would share stuff, and they they wouldbe surprised.
They'd be talking to each other.
Like, oh, I didn't know that you did that.
I didn't know that you that.
And so I think if you can get people to lightup at least once in maybe your interaction with
(20:34):
them or you can take them somewhere in a waythat gives them a little bit more skill and a
little bit more even self control, then you'reable to have a great interaction.
Yes.
Love that.
Love that.
I want to go to some of the leaps, right, thatyou've taken.
(20:58):
And you've been through a wide variety ofindustries and and people that you've worked
with and levels that you've worked with.
But but what are some of the exciting projectsand goals that you've got going on right now
that you wanna share with our listeners?
Yeah.
I mean, that's perfect.
That's a great question.
So one one project that I'm especially excitedabout is actually a principle based negotiation
(21:21):
test assessment that I'm developing and builtaround the idea that there are patterns that
are really more a form of math when it comes toconflict.
And we've, I believe, stripped math a bit outof the emotional intelligence space for far too
long.
And so I'm really testing whether we canimprove somebody's conflict navigation, not by
(21:41):
increasing their emotional sensitivity oradding even to that word bank necessarily, but
by using measurable pattern based approachesthat reduce harm, I think, and minimize
suffering.
So I will kinda pause there and share why thatmatters deeply to me.
And, of course, we can talk more about it.
But, you know, I've I've worked with and I workwith and advocate for people who've really been
(22:05):
heavily impacted by trauma.
Mhmm.
And I think that that seems to be one of thebiggest, if not the biggest, indicators of an
individual's success later on in life is whatadverse events were they exposed to or not
exposed to, and how does that impact them.
And so, you know, many people are reallytrapped not only in silence, but in poverty,
(22:27):
and they can't afford therapy.
They can't afford coaches or polished language.
And, you know, if we could kinda give themsomething that's measurable, could improve
their conflict game, I believe that there aremany individuals that have a heart for
integrity and creativity and growth and thosetypes of things.
But when they're hitting the conflict aroundthem as they're attempting to grow and and
(22:50):
improve Mhmm.
Maybe they don't always show up properly, andthat was certainly the case with me.
Excuse me.
For years, I was like, I just don't get thelanguage.
You know?
Yeah.
I'm learning to kinda create datasets forpeople to personally interact with and
contribute.
But I also, in this project, would really likecommunity members to be able to contribute to
(23:10):
the work publicly and even look through thedata publicly to capture their own
understanding of, well, of what they see, andthat's the curiosity in the data.
So I actually believe in this instance, itreally is a measurable reduction in suffering.
I love that.
I love that.
And on whatever level, but but conflict is suchan it's such a heightened emotion period.
(23:36):
Right?
Any conflict.
And there's people that try to avoid it at allcosts, and then that that harms them because
they're not showing up and and advocating forthemselves necessarily.
Or there are people that are constantly lookingfor conflict and just pushing that button in
others.
Right?
So so having some tools that anyone can use isso powerful.
(23:58):
So I I love that that you're you're buildingthat model and those those tools.
You mentioned that people in your communitycould kind of give you some feedback or or help
with the datasets.
We will have, if you have a link, we'll put itin our show notes for everybody to be able to
reach out to you and follow along with thatproject as you keep developing it because that
(24:20):
that can be really just such a game changer onso many levels for people.
Right?
If they're able to have this conflictresolution tool and able to negotiate with
their boss for time off or a pay raise or, youknow, the next level promotion, those kind of
things can be life changing for families,right, for generations to come.
(24:42):
So Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, like, the people in your life thatthis, I believe I'm calling it right now
heritage for the working class ACE because ACEwas a study that was done on by Kaiser over a
extended period of time on individuals who werefacing adverse childhood events and what how
that impacted them in the future.
And I really wanna help educate people on databecause we've got more access to data than
(25:05):
we've ever had.
Mhmm.
And I really like that the way that data tellsa story, if you're really looking at it, gives
you insight from so many different directionsbecause, you know, for let's say for the ACE
thing, it it basically ranks you at one to 10on how adverse your childhood was.
And then it kind of data has a way of being twodifferent points that connect at a certain
time.
And so it follows these people, you know, overa period of time, and then it says not so much
(25:29):
that, okay, if you're an ace of a seven, you'regonna you're definitely gonna deal with these
things, but that those who had a seven moreoften dealt with this Right.
And so I believe that that's an importantpiece.
And the other important piece is just that whenit comes to heritage, it seems to me heritage
is something that's passed down
Mhmm.
In in order to help you deal with the world.
(25:51):
And we're struggling to know what to do,especially those who come from adverse
childhood.
So so I just wanna give one example.
So let's say that you're a kid who got hitevery time that they were asked a question.
Mhmm.
You're gonna go into the adult world and maybebe offended almost when other people are asking
the boss questions and confused, and and andyou won't really know.
(26:14):
You won't really recognize.
Look.
Now I'm with my peers, and there are certainthings I need to say.
And there are certain there's a certain way ofcarrying myself where I actually could say no,
have a positive outcome, and support myselfbetter, and not have to work so hard.
So heritage would be like, how do I navigatethe future?
Some people, when they deal with adverseevents, they don't have they don't have the map
(26:37):
for how to build relationships.
Yeah.
So
I think what this does is it just gives alittle bit better better of a map so you can
determine.
The other thing was you mentioned needing theseconversations maybe with your boss or with
someone else.
But one thing I wanna make very, very clear toyou is one of the biggest factors in this
research that I'm doing is not so much thosewho want conflict, but those who are unable to
(27:00):
step away when the conflict shows up becausethey're baited into it or something.
And and by baited into it, I'm not saying thatthey're not part of the problem.
If you're in a conflict, you're part of theproblem, and you've gotta figure out how to
work it out.
But your ability to step away stops enablingthat situation.
Yeah.
And so I really think that people need kind ofat bats around an ability to politely step away
(27:22):
and handle some of those interactions.
And what I'm doing research on is what is themost simplistic tools I can give to people so
they can both disengage when it's gonna be verywill based, engage when it's gonna be principle
based negotiation, and play for the most part.
Nice.
And they can find me @execucommunications.com.
Okay.
Great.
(27:43):
And, again, we'll have all the links in theshow notes so that we can get those out to
everybody.
And if you're listening or watching this, youcan go to the show notes, whatever platform
you're on, and be able to find Bonnie'sinformation and be able to connect with her.
She has so many gifts to offer.
And, whether that be in the corporate world andhelping the executor executives really hone in
(28:04):
on what is the vision and how do we filter thatdown.
Right?
And getting everyone kind of I hate to use theword bought in because that's such a eighties,
nineties word, but that's what it is.
Right?
Getting everybody engaged.
Right.
And then building out this new dataset, Ithink, is gonna be such an valuable valuable
valuable tool for people who need that extrabit of help.
(28:28):
And it you know, we just we don't have classestaught to us in in our school systems about how
to build these more soft skills.
Right?
How to handle conflict and how to haveconversations that we need to have.
How to be curious instead of, you know,squashing that down.
We need to encourage that.
(28:49):
So Well and I and I don't mean I don't mean tointerrupt.
Obviously, I get excited.
Go ahead.
But you said that, you know, we don't have thetools.
In fact, we're not given the tools in school.
And then I think from what I've understood isthat where you do get those tools is when you
maybe get arrested or you end up in the courtsystem, and then the court attempting to teach
(29:10):
you competencies you didn't learn.
So what that tells me is there's a shadow inour society of people who don't have the
competence, but they're not yet in jail.
Mhmm.
It'd be better if we could create something toprevent that rather than creating things that
are programs on the on the off on the otherside of that.
And
Yes.
You can give people the tools to do a littlebit better.
(29:30):
And it can take a few bricks off their chest.
That's measurable reduction in suffering, but Ithink we'll be able to show with the data that
we can do it.
And perhaps if we're tracking that alongsideACE numbers for individuals who are willing to
be part of the research research program, thenwhat we can do is map that among all of the ACE
data and then give maybe a database for peopleto begin to to look.
(29:52):
And and maybe in terms of heritage for the ACE,I don't know.
But, you know, let's say you've got someonewho's a seven or a nine.
Maybe there's, like, a a poster board orthere's, like, a board where they can say, hey.
This is where I this is what I've been through.
You got this.
You know?
You can do it.
You're so
good for me and things like that.
But I think I think it'll be very useful.
Yes.
(30:13):
So much potential there.
So much potential there, Bonnie.
I just love the work that you're doing and,again, matching the data with the human side
and then putting some play around it, allwrapping it all in play.
I just love that philosophy.
So keep up the good work, and like I said,reach out to Bonnie.
If any of that resonates with you, all of thatwill be in the intro in the show notes.
(30:36):
So that is our time for today.
So that's a wrap on today's episode of the leapto success podcast.
I hope that you found inspiration, motivation,and a few golden nuggets to take with you on
your journey.
If you love the conversation that Bonnie and Ihad today, be sure to subscribe on whatever
platform you're listening to this on so thatyou never miss an episode.
(30:59):
If Bonnie's message resonated with you, pleaseshow her some love by sharing this episode with
your community.
And remember, you can find all of her contactinformation in the show notes on whatever
platform you're listening or watching today.
If you wanna go deeper and join us inside theLEAP community where you get to interact with
wonder wonderful women just like Bonnie, You'llfind even more resources, connections, and
(31:24):
opportunities to show up and grow.
You can visit it us on successmagnified.combackslash leap for ladies to learn more.
Until next time, keep taking those bold steps,contributing your gifts, and celebrating your
successes.
Thanks so much, Bonnie.
Thanks, Mary.
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