April 18, 2025 • 31 mins
Join host Mary Gaul in this soul-stirring episode of the Leap to Success Podcast as she welcomes Denise Shannon, founder of Sassy Preacher Lady Ministries. Denise shares her remarkable journey from hospice nurse to ordained pastor and now full-time spiritual director and officiant. With decades of experience in holding sacred space for others at life’s most pivotal moments, Denise brings profound insight, compassion, and spiritual depth to her work and to this conversation.
They explore Denise’s path of taking courageous leaps—leaving a nursing career, pursuing seminary at 50, and launching her business as a spiritual director. Denise offers heartfelt wisdom on how to tune into your inner knowing, align with your values, and move forward even when the next step is uncertain. Whether you’re facing transition, looking for deeper meaning, or simply curious about spiritual direction, this episode is filled with gentle guidance and authentic encouragement.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hello hello!
Welcome to the Leap to Success podcast where wehighlight incredible women entrepreneurs who
are taking bold leaps in business and life.
I'm your host Mary Gahl and I believe thatsuccess is built through connection,
contribution, and celebration.
Each episode we bring you inspiring stories,expert insights, and actionable strategies to
(00:26):
help you grow and thrive as a solopreneur.
Let's dive into today's conversation.
I am so excited to introduce you, podcastlisteners, to our LEAP community member Denise
Shannon.
She is the owner of Sassy Preacher LadyMinistries.
Welcome to the show Denise.
(00:47):
Tell our listeners a little bit about yourstory and what makes you so awesome.
Ah, okay.
Well, thanks for having me, Mary.
I really appreciate it.
You know, my story is, it's a long one, but Iwon't go into all of it, but I actually am a
nurse by background.
And, but have since kind of gone through thatas a career and became a pastor and have been
(01:15):
doing that for the last six or seven years.
But recently left the church that I was apastor at to go full time into my business,
which I started as an adjunct business.
It was something to do on the side from mypastor work.
(01:35):
It mostly started out as being officiatingweddings and officiating funerals, and just
thought, well, maybe that's where that's all itwas going to be.
And just over time have seen, you know, I havethis vision that it's it includes a lot more
than that and was able to get my certificationas a spiritual director and I just recently
(01:57):
launched my spiritual direction practice withinSassy Preacher Lady Ministries.
Lots of things happening.
Yes, lots of leaps in there, right?
right? Leaping from one thing to another thinganother thing to another thing.
But knowing Denise very well, I know that she'salways followed her heart and has followed this
(02:20):
calling that's pulling her forward into thenext thing and the next best way to use her
skill set.
So I want to take people back a little bitbecause every one of us has this kind of unique
origin story, this unique set of skills that webring to the work that we do now.
But going back to your nurse days, so youworked specifically in hospice nursing, right?
(02:46):
Which I just think anybody that deals withpeople on their way out of this life and their
families and all of the emotions that thatentails are just special angels on earth
because it just takes a special kind of personto be able to do that work.
So tell us some of the skills that now youbring into your current work that you've
(03:09):
developed through being a hospice nurse?
Yeah, I was a nurse in hospice for twenty fiveyears, and just I kind of fell into it.
It wasn't something that I went looking for,but once I was in it, I just loved it.
(03:32):
It was just something about being present withpeople at that stage of their life that was
very sacred and very wonderful.
Because I just I really love stories, I lovedsitting and talking to people and listening to
what their story was.
And it just became really evident to me that nomatter what kind of life they had, some had,
(03:55):
you know, these wonderful lives that nothing,you know, nothing bad ever seemed to happen.
You know, they have a story, but the peoplethat had tragedy and disaster and things like
that in their life still had these glimmers ofhope and glimmers of wellness, really, in their
And it just became evident to me that everybodyhas a story and everybody's life has meaning.
(04:25):
So I loved learning about that.
And I think that's what kept me in it for solong was just being present at when people
start reflecting on their life and sometimesthere's a lot of regrets and there's a lot of
sadness, but trying to be there to help and tolisten, to listen and to really extract those
(04:48):
those hopeful moments for them sometimes wasreally beneficial to them, but also I just
really enjoyed doing that.
Yeah, and then I did that same work.
I've done that same work off and on as achaplain.
Instead of a nurse, I've worked as a chaplainand get even more of that because I don't have
(05:09):
to worry about the medical task y side ofthings.
Right, right.
I get to just sit, literally sit and listen.
Yeah.
It's
such a privilege, but it's such a privilegethat not very many people have the skill set to
receive or be a part of.
So I appreciate you're doing that and beingable to recognize that gift in yourself and the
(05:38):
gift that that thing gives the person that'spassing away and the loved ones around them.
I think the greatest need we all have is to beseen and heard.
So just having somebody witness your life atthat point I think is really, really powerful.
Love that you do that.
(05:59):
And how does that translate into kind of thatwitnessing people and recognizing them and
seeing them roll into your officiant dutiesthat you have now?
I think that the skills that I learned doingall of that and the skills that really become a
(06:25):
highlight for me is really this ability to bepresent in with people without distraction in a
very non judgmental way in order to hear theirstory, in order to, like you said, hear them
and see them for who they are.
And so as an officiant, I'm able to take thatand take those stories, say a wedding officiant
(06:54):
for their love story, take that and really helpthem customize a really special ceremony where
the people present know, you know, theyprobably know these people, they know kind of
the story, but my ability is to take all ofthat information and to create this very
customized, personalized ceremony that reallyhighlights who the couple might be and who they
(07:20):
are.
What I love to do is just have the audience,you know, when they leave go, that's exactly
them.
That is them.
Is who they are.
Because I think that's the that's the biggestpart of the ceremony, you know, not not the
party afterwards, although that's really fun.
But to really make that ceremony meaningful andspecial and just unique to them.
(07:46):
So I think those skills I get to use ineverything I do in telling the love story or
telling somebody's life story if I'm doing kindof a memorial service or a celebration of life.
And then also I utilize those same skills in myspiritual direction practice.
Nice, very nice, very nice.
(08:08):
Denise and I were on a call together earliertoday and somebody asked because Denise is in
Colorado like I am in Colorado and so somebodythat was not in this state asked if she could
work with other people.
And so I answered for you, right?
As they often do, this is what's great aboutDenise!
And so I just said, you're listening, and youhave a wedding coming up or even a celebration
(08:36):
of life that you need to really put somethoughtful awareness into the ceremony, Denise
can help you with that even if she's not goingto be there at the actual service.
Right?
One of the skill sets is you can interviewpeople, and you have that ability to listen and
(08:56):
pull pieces that really make the story come tolife about the couple, like you said, or about
the person that they're letting go of.
So I think that's just such a cool thing.
All skills are usable.
I've decided everything you've ever learned isalways usable.
(09:19):
Yes.
So tell our listeners a little bit about yourlatest leap, right?
And leaping from a pastor job, and then takingthat leap and saying, Okay, I started this kind
of side hustle business where I can be anofficiant and do a few other things, to saying,
Okay, I'm ready to leave the full time job andgo over here and really, you know, launch this
(09:44):
business and bringing all the skills that youhave to life and being able to build what you
want.
So tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I've always looked at everything I'vedone as a call of some kind and as a ministry
of some kind.
And so, you know, I try to pay attention towhen I'm called to do something different.
(10:10):
And so, or something more or something, youknow, that I'm not currently doing.
And so, it just really was on my heart for along time, you know, for just a variety of
reasons that, you know, I've never really spenta lot of time in my business and what could it
be?
And I have this kind of overall vision of it.
(10:31):
I visualize all kinds of things in it andreally just finally decided.
It was after about a year's worth of reflectingand struggling with that decision that I
decided I'm gonna do this.
I'm gonna leave this and I'm gonna just jumpinto this.
I really think that it can go.
(10:54):
Think these are things that are needed.
Think spiritual direction is really needed.
It's not really well understood, but I think inthe world that we live in today, it is a really
helpful tool for people to really get groundedin their values and their beliefs, and who they
(11:14):
are and what they believe in, whether it'sreligion or not, it doesn't really matter.
Because we're all spiritual, right?
We're all spiritual human beings and we havethat piece of us that oftentimes goes
unnoticed, unreflected upon, and we just ignoreit sometimes.
And so, we just, you know, I think this issomething that can really help people, and
(11:40):
because I did finish up my sort of a two yearcertification program in it, I just felt like
this was also the next one of the next steps totake.
Great.
So I just kind of okay here I am.
And so trying to a leap,
making a leap,
know, take a leap off the cliff and theparachute will open or the bridge will appear
(12:01):
or something will happen.
Right?
So yes, I love it.
I want to come back to the spiritual directionpiece because I want to dive into that a little
bit for our listeners who, like you said, manypeople may not understand what that is and what
spiritual direction looks like with you.
So I want to come back to that, something yousaid where you said, you know, every time
(12:23):
you've made a leap in your career, you've hadthat nudge or that feeling of being pulled
forward.
So I want to help people identify that becausethey may be feeling that and they don't know
what it is or they're not sure what the nextthing is.
How have you kind of listened to or paidattention to or gotten whacked over the head by
(12:45):
the universe to say it's time to shift?
So tell our listeners a little bit about thatfeeling of being pulled to do something else,
and when it gets too uncomfortable, like what'sthat what's that look like for you?
What does that look like?
Yeah, you know, I think I've always been thatperson who, so I get bored very easily.
(13:07):
Okay.
And so, I can be, you know, I can do something.
I can love what I'm doing.
I can be a part of it.
And you know, about five to seven years in, Iusually have this feeling like, not that I'm
totally bored, but I almost feel like as ifI've done what I came to do and now I need the
(13:32):
next thing, whatever that is.
If I look at my trajectory over my whole life,I think that's been true.
I have a lot of passion, a lot of want to do agreat job and to do what it is that I'm hired
to do, and I believe that I do that.
(13:53):
Then I get to the point of going, okay, nowwhat?
It's usually about every five to seven years Iget this nudge of what else is there?
What else can I be doing?
How else can I make an impact?
And I just I've learned over time I didn't dothis right away, but I've learned over time
(14:14):
that when I start to get those feelings, I'msupposed to pay attention to it.
There were times, I mean, when I went back atage 50 to seminary to become a pastor, you
know, I pooh poohed that idea for years.
Just thought that was craziness.
Like, that is crazy.
(14:34):
What am I even thinking?
And but it wouldn't go away.
It just was there and then people keep talkingabout it or they keep telling you, oh, you
should do this or you should do that and so Ifinally gave in and certainly it, you know, it
worked out well.
Yeah.
And so it's just, I think you have to payattention to those feelings.
(14:58):
Trust your gut and your heart way over more sothan your mind because our minds can play
tricks on us and our minds talk us out ofthings all the time.
If we pay attention to our heart and our gutand pay attention to that and maybe be open to
responding to that, you can make the leap maybefaster than I did.
(15:20):
It's taken over sixty years to figure that out.
An overnight success in sixty years, right?
I know.
Think there's many of our listeners out there.
I've had that in my career as well, you'refeeling like, okay, I think I've done what I
(15:42):
can do here.
For me, it's a ten year cycle.
I have like three ten year cycles in my careerbefore I started my businesses, and now I've
ran one business for eleven years and thenclosed it down.
And this business is nine years in, so it'slike, we'll see what happens with this But for
me, it's about a ten year cycle.
And paying attention to that within yourself.
(16:03):
If you're in a W-two job and you're ready toswitch to your next W-two job or you're an
entrepreneur or you're in a W-two job andyou're thinking, I'm ready to start my next
chapter and that could look like running my ownbusiness.
You know it's never too late.
I love that you said at age 50 you went back toseminary, right?
(16:25):
Hay House, you know people know Louise Hay, HayHouse Publishing, she started that when she was
in her 60s.
So there's lots of things that we can still doas we age, and now we bring all of that
experience with us.
Like you said, no skill is ever wasted.
So we're bringing all of that with us along theway, taking that leap with us, which I think is
(16:46):
so powerful.
I love that you shared that.
Because there's listeners out there that are onthat, getting that nudge, feeling that push to
take the leap, but aren't uncertain about it.
So how do you check-in with that deeper self tolisten and pay attention to what's kind of
(17:09):
pushing you forward or what you're being pulledtowards?
Well, I think for me, just personally, it'sreally about certain practices that I input
that I have in my life and and one of those isjust you have you have to find some time to be
quiet, just to be able to, to listen and to, torealize maybe what your heart and gut are
(17:32):
telling you.
We're so busy, and so our days are so filled,we talked about that, and we got on is that we
don't make time for that.
So there's no ability for that to even comeinto play.
I think having a practice, whatever it mightbe, mine happens to be earlier in the day
versus later in the day, but it could beanything and just being quiet where there's no
(17:58):
TV, there's no phone, there's no radio, there'sno nothing.
It's quiet and you spend time reflecting.
Some people journal, I journal sometimes andsometimes not, but you know just let the
thoughts percolate you know that and let andallow them to come to the surface instead of
(18:18):
pushing them down or pushing them away becauseyou're so busy.
Right, so having some kind of practice whereyou open up that opportunity to listen I think
is really important.
Yes.
Yeah because otherwise yeah we could go aboutour days every day and many of us do right all
day long and then by the end of the day we'reexhausted and we don't want to do anything else
(18:42):
and we're certainly not going to reflect orthink.
Right.
That we get on our phones or TV or whatever itis, but you have to be intentional.
It's an intentional practice.
So it's not something that's just going tohappen.
You have to like, this is going to be what Ido.
And it could be ten minutes, like literallyfive minutes, ten minutes, you know, it doesn't
(19:04):
have to be an hour.
And but I think those are that's a reallyimportant thing to do in order to listen and to
pay attention to maybe what's going on.
Yes, I
I totally agree.
I just gave this advice to a client.
It was given to me when I was ready to take theleap from my last job and start my first
(19:24):
business.
A friend of mine said, Ask yourself, I wonder.
Right?
And I love that question because it's an openended question.
It allows us to think outside the box.
I wonder what my next job will be.
I wonder if I'm going to commute.
I wonder if I'll work from home.
I wonder what kind of people I'm going workwith.
I wonder what kind of money I can make.
(19:45):
Wonder what services I can provide.
So I just started asking all these I wonderquestions and then being quiet with that and
saying, Okay, what's showing up for me?
I wonder what kind of skills I have that Icould bring to a business.
So it took about six months of me asking andjust noticing, like you said, you just start to
(20:07):
notice little things that are popping up.
And it's like, Oh, that could be interesting.
Could I do that?
Oh, that could be interesting.
Could I do that?
And so just asking yourself those questions.
And so I would just do it when I was drivingthe kids to school or whenever I had a quiet
moment, really asking myself, I wonder?
(20:27):
And then being quiet with the question.
Like you said, you have to hear the answer andwe fill our days and our time and everything
with so much noise.
Sometimes it's hard to hear those answers orrecognize those things when they're being put
in front of us.
That's true.
I really do believe the answers are alreadyinside of each of us.
(20:55):
They're already there, so we don't need to betold what to do.
We already know, but we have to allow for thatto, you know, to bubble up to the top so that
it can be, you know, realized.
And so, yeah, very just being intentional aboutallowing for that to happen
(21:17):
is Well thank you for bringing us back to thespiritual direction because I think I really do
want to have you clarify you know, what doesthat mean when somebody would hire you as a
spiritual direction coach?
Or is that what you call a spiritual directioncoaching, right?
Just spiritual direction practice, right?
(21:41):
But if somebody wants to hire you and iscontemplating out there, I want to know more
about spiritual direction and what would belike to work with Denise, what would you tell
them?
What can you tell us.
Yeah, you know I think it sometimes I strugglewith that because I think sometimes it is hard
to understand it unless you're doing it.
(22:02):
But I think how I usually will ask people askpeople about, you know, if you're feeling,
there's a lot of different feelings, but areyou feeling like you're not aligned, right?
Like, what you're doing and what you feel aboutwho you are and what you want to be doing
aren't quite aligned, Or there's this, youknow, idea of I don't have a purpose or what is
(22:26):
my purpose in life?
Why, you know, why did whoever the higherpower, the creator, the divine, whatever you
want to call that.
Why am I here on earth?
You
deal with the small questions, right?
Just small questions.
Just to be really clear, I don't have theanswers for all of them.
(22:48):
But what I can do is I really can, I can bepresent with people?
So all of those skills I talked about earlieris being able to be that, you know, maybe that
sounding board of, you know, you telling meyour story and what's happened and what you're
feeling.
And because I can listen and because I can, youknow, mirror back to you what you're saying,
(23:11):
sometimes I can help you clarify what it isthat's the problem or is holding you back.
It can even go as deep as you know, I actuallycome across a lot of people lately that have
had a lot of religious or church trauma intheir lives where the church has not been
incredibly friendly to them.
(23:32):
They've been, it's very actually been verytraumatic for a variety of reasons.
So they're not, you know, they're not churchgoers, not growers, goers.
Yeah.
And, But they're feeling like their foundationisn't solid.
They want something that really is solidifyingthem as a foundation, but they may not feel
(23:56):
like it needs to be necessarily religious.
Now, I'm a pastor and so people look at me likereally are you kidding me?
And I really am.
I'm that person who it doesn't have to bereligious, but you are spiritual and so it
could include a lot of different things.
I was talking to a gal earlier today about, youknow, has had a lot of church trauma where she
(24:23):
was abused really by the church.
And, know, so she's been away from the churchfor many, many years, but she wants to start a
family.
And now she's feeling like she wants to makesure that she has a strong enough foundation
that she can help her children when she hasthem to build their own foundation.
(24:44):
And so if she's not aligned or if she's notsolid, she's feeling like, then I have no
business trying to do that with my ownchildren.
So she, you know, she's coming to me to be ableto kind of talk about that and see what we can
do about creating what that foundation mightlook like for her.
(25:05):
It may have nothing to do with church.
It might not, right?
It might and it might not.
I'm kind of a companion.
I guess I'm more of a spiritual companion thanI am a director.
I don't really direct people.
I walk with them.
I walk the journey with them.
(25:26):
I listen and I help them come to thoserealizations and those, you know, decisions for
themselves because the answer, like I said, isalready in them.
They just need some help in identifying them.
And yeah,
so with the goal of creating that foundationthat can keep us solid in the times of trauma,
(25:50):
or signs of trouble, or signs of, you know,terrible things that do happen to us in life.
How can we stay solidly grounded you know whenthose things happen because they will.
Yes, yes.
And you know I'm a business coach and I workwith people in their business and there's a lot
of people who feel like I have to build thisbusiness around my one purpose, and I haven't
(26:15):
figured out my purpose so I can't be successfulin business.
There's all those mind games we play withourselves.
I love that you're able to help people reallyfeel grounded in, or discover and get clarity
around, their purpose on the planet.
And that's something that only each individualcan answer.
(26:36):
But if we don't know how to even startprocessing the information or the feedback or
any of that kind of information, that's whereyou can help be a guide for us and say okay
tell us your story.
And recognizing and reflecting back again, allthose skills you have developed your whole life
(26:57):
and come naturally to you, I know, because noteverybody can develop those skills at that
level.
I think that's really, really powerful to justhelp us.
Then once you're anchored in like, Here's mypurpose.
I'm connected to that.
That really does anchor you in so many areas ofour lives, whether it be as a parent, as a
(27:18):
volunteer, as a mom, as a sister, as a wife, asa business owner.
So that really having that core strength inknowing who we are and what we're about and
what we believe in, whether that's a doctrinefrom a church or just your own beliefs that
you've discovered on your own, I think that'sreally, really powerful.
(27:43):
It's such a gift that you're giving the peoplethat get to work with you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I really You know, I also do a lot ofjust Sometimes we just need to help clarify
what our values and our beliefs are.
You know, we might say we believe certainthings where we value this or value that.
But why and are they still our values because Ithink those things change.
(28:07):
They change for us throughout our life basedupon our experiences.
And so, you know, spending some time justclarifying those and are we aligned with them.
Am I aligned with what I say I value, becausesometimes that can be what causes us to feel
tipsy right, like well, this is just not youknow it's not congruent with who I am.
(28:29):
So how do we get back into alignment with thosethings?
It can be just as simple as that.
Yes, good.
I love it.
And we kind of talked about this earlier, but Iwant to kind of wrap up our talk today about,
you know, if our listeners out there are on theedge of taking a big leap, they're kind of
(28:53):
feeling that nudge, or they're feeling thismisalignment, and they know that there's
something different.
What's your best piece of advice again forhelping them take that action with confidence?
You know I think the number one thing is youhave to believe in yourself.
(29:14):
I think you have to believe that what you'refeeling or what you're experiencing is real and
to not be afraid of that.
That there's a reason that you are feeling thatway, that you want to take this leap, and
there's probably a need for whatever it is thatyou want to do in the world, and that it will
make it a better place.
(29:35):
I would really encourage people to not doubt,not push it away for years like I did, but to
jump into it and to learn as much as you can,Become an expert at whatever it is that you're
doing and know that there's going to befailures the good times, but the failures will
(29:59):
lead to successes.
And so I just believe in yourself.
Believe what you're feeling.
Believe that this is right and jump in.
Just jump in.
Yes, love it.
I love it.
Yes, take action.
You have to take action.
Okay, well this has been a fascinating talk.
(30:19):
I get to talk to Denise forever.
She's got so many great stories and it justbrings such a great skill set, again, of
listening and being able to reflect back topeople.
So that is a wrap for today's episode of theLeap to Success podcast.
I hope if you're listening that you foundinspiration, motivation, and a few golden
(30:40):
nuggets to take with you on your journey.
If you loved this conversation, be sure tosubscribe so that you never miss an episode
however you're listening to this or watching iton YouTube.
And if today's guest, Denise, resonated withyou, then please show her some love by sharing
this episode with your community.
Remember you can find all of Denise's contactinformation in the show notes wherever you're
(31:03):
listening or watching, so please reach out andschedule a call with her about spiritual
direction, about officiating a ceremony foryou, or if you just want to have a great
conversation with a caring human being, Deniseis your gal.
If you want to go deeper within the Leap toSuccess community, the LEAP community, you'll
(31:25):
find even more resources, connections, andopportunities to show up and grow.
You can visitsuccessmagnified.com/leapforladies to learn
more about our community.
Until next time, keep taking bold steps,contributing your gifts, and celebrating your
successes.
Thanks so much, Denise.
Thank you.
Hello hello!
Welcome to the Leap to Success podcast where wehighlight incredible women entrepreneurs who
are taking bold leaps in business and life.
I'm your host Mary Gahl and I believe thatsuccess is built through connection,
contribution, and celebration.
Each episode we bring you inspiring stories,expert insights, and actionable strategies to
(00:26):
help you grow and thrive as a solopreneur.
Let's dive into today's conversation.
I am so excited to introduce you, podcastlisteners, to our LEAP community member Denise
Shannon.
She is the owner of Sassy Preacher LadyMinistries.
Welcome to the show Denise.
(00:47):
Tell our listeners a little bit about yourstory and what makes you so awesome.
Ah, okay.
Well, thanks for having me, Mary.
I really appreciate it.
You know, my story is, it's a long one, but Iwon't go into all of it, but I actually am a
nurse by background.
And, but have since kind of gone through thatas a career and became a pastor and have been
(01:15):
doing that for the last six or seven years.
But recently left the church that I was apastor at to go full time into my business,
which I started as an adjunct business.
It was something to do on the side from mypastor work.
(01:35):
It mostly started out as being officiatingweddings and officiating funerals, and just
thought, well, maybe that's where that's all itwas going to be.
And just over time have seen, you know, I havethis vision that it's it includes a lot more
than that and was able to get my certificationas a spiritual director and I just recently
(01:57):
launched my spiritual direction practice withinSassy Preacher Lady Ministries.
Lots of things happening.
Yes, lots of leaps in there, right?
right? Leaping from one thing to another thinganother thing to another thing.
But knowing Denise very well, I know that she'salways followed her heart and has followed this
(02:20):
calling that's pulling her forward into thenext thing and the next best way to use her
skill set.
So I want to take people back a little bitbecause every one of us has this kind of unique
origin story, this unique set of skills that webring to the work that we do now.
But going back to your nurse days, so youworked specifically in hospice nursing, right?
(02:46):
Which I just think anybody that deals withpeople on their way out of this life and their
families and all of the emotions that thatentails are just special angels on earth
because it just takes a special kind of personto be able to do that work.
So tell us some of the skills that now youbring into your current work that you've
(03:09):
developed through being a hospice nurse?
Yeah, I was a nurse in hospice for twenty fiveyears, and just I kind of fell into it.
It wasn't something that I went looking for,but once I was in it, I just loved it.
(03:32):
It was just something about being present withpeople at that stage of their life that was
very sacred and very wonderful.
Because I just I really love stories, I lovedsitting and talking to people and listening to
what their story was.
And it just became really evident to me that nomatter what kind of life they had, some had,
(03:55):
you know, these wonderful lives that nothing,you know, nothing bad ever seemed to happen.
You know, they have a story, but the peoplethat had tragedy and disaster and things like
that in their life still had these glimmers ofhope and glimmers of wellness, really, in their
And it just became evident to me that everybodyhas a story and everybody's life has meaning.
(04:25):
So I loved learning about that.
And I think that's what kept me in it for solong was just being present at when people
start reflecting on their life and sometimesthere's a lot of regrets and there's a lot of
sadness, but trying to be there to help and tolisten, to listen and to really extract those
(04:48):
those hopeful moments for them sometimes wasreally beneficial to them, but also I just
really enjoyed doing that.
Yeah, and then I did that same work.
I've done that same work off and on as achaplain.
Instead of a nurse, I've worked as a chaplainand get even more of that because I don't have
(05:09):
to worry about the medical task y side ofthings.
Right, right.
I get to just sit, literally sit and listen.
Yeah.
It's
such a privilege, but it's such a privilegethat not very many people have the skill set to
receive or be a part of.
So I appreciate you're doing that and beingable to recognize that gift in yourself and the
(05:38):
gift that that thing gives the person that'spassing away and the loved ones around them.
I think the greatest need we all have is to beseen and heard.
So just having somebody witness your life atthat point I think is really, really powerful.
Love that you do that.
(05:59):
And how does that translate into kind of thatwitnessing people and recognizing them and
seeing them roll into your officiant dutiesthat you have now?
I think that the skills that I learned doingall of that and the skills that really become a
(06:25):
highlight for me is really this ability to bepresent in with people without distraction in a
very non judgmental way in order to hear theirstory, in order to, like you said, hear them
and see them for who they are.
And so as an officiant, I'm able to take thatand take those stories, say a wedding officiant
(06:54):
for their love story, take that and really helpthem customize a really special ceremony where
the people present know, you know, theyprobably know these people, they know kind of
the story, but my ability is to take all ofthat information and to create this very
customized, personalized ceremony that reallyhighlights who the couple might be and who they
(07:20):
are.
What I love to do is just have the audience,you know, when they leave go, that's exactly
them.
That is them.
Is who they are.
Because I think that's the that's the biggestpart of the ceremony, you know, not not the
party afterwards, although that's really fun.
But to really make that ceremony meaningful andspecial and just unique to them.
(07:46):
So I think those skills I get to use ineverything I do in telling the love story or
telling somebody's life story if I'm doing kindof a memorial service or a celebration of life.
And then also I utilize those same skills in myspiritual direction practice.
Nice, very nice, very nice.
(08:08):
Denise and I were on a call together earliertoday and somebody asked because Denise is in
Colorado like I am in Colorado and so somebodythat was not in this state asked if she could
work with other people.
And so I answered for you, right?
As they often do, this is what's great aboutDenise!
And so I just said, you're listening, and youhave a wedding coming up or even a celebration
(08:36):
of life that you need to really put somethoughtful awareness into the ceremony, Denise
can help you with that even if she's not goingto be there at the actual service.
Right?
One of the skill sets is you can interviewpeople, and you have that ability to listen and
(08:56):
pull pieces that really make the story come tolife about the couple, like you said, or about
the person that they're letting go of.
So I think that's just such a cool thing.
All skills are usable.
I've decided everything you've ever learned isalways usable.
(09:19):
Yes.
So tell our listeners a little bit about yourlatest leap, right?
And leaping from a pastor job, and then takingthat leap and saying, Okay, I started this kind
of side hustle business where I can be anofficiant and do a few other things, to saying,
Okay, I'm ready to leave the full time job andgo over here and really, you know, launch this
(09:44):
business and bringing all the skills that youhave to life and being able to build what you
want.
So tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I've always looked at everything I'vedone as a call of some kind and as a ministry
of some kind.
And so, you know, I try to pay attention towhen I'm called to do something different.
(10:10):
And so, or something more or something, youknow, that I'm not currently doing.
And so, it just really was on my heart for along time, you know, for just a variety of
reasons that, you know, I've never really spenta lot of time in my business and what could it
be?
And I have this kind of overall vision of it.
(10:31):
I visualize all kinds of things in it andreally just finally decided.
It was after about a year's worth of reflectingand struggling with that decision that I
decided I'm gonna do this.
I'm gonna leave this and I'm gonna just jumpinto this.
I really think that it can go.
(10:54):
Think these are things that are needed.
Think spiritual direction is really needed.
It's not really well understood, but I think inthe world that we live in today, it is a really
helpful tool for people to really get groundedin their values and their beliefs, and who they
(11:14):
are and what they believe in, whether it'sreligion or not, it doesn't really matter.
Because we're all spiritual, right?
We're all spiritual human beings and we havethat piece of us that oftentimes goes
unnoticed, unreflected upon, and we just ignoreit sometimes.
And so, we just, you know, I think this issomething that can really help people, and
(11:40):
because I did finish up my sort of a two yearcertification program in it, I just felt like
this was also the next one of the next steps totake.
Great.
So I just kind of okay here I am.
And so trying to a leap,
making a leap,
know, take a leap off the cliff and theparachute will open or the bridge will appear
(12:01):
or something will happen.
Right?
So yes, I love it.
I want to come back to the spiritual directionpiece because I want to dive into that a little
bit for our listeners who, like you said, manypeople may not understand what that is and what
spiritual direction looks like with you.
So I want to come back to that, something yousaid where you said, you know, every time
(12:23):
you've made a leap in your career, you've hadthat nudge or that feeling of being pulled
forward.
So I want to help people identify that becausethey may be feeling that and they don't know
what it is or they're not sure what the nextthing is.
How have you kind of listened to or paidattention to or gotten whacked over the head by
(12:45):
the universe to say it's time to shift?
So tell our listeners a little bit about thatfeeling of being pulled to do something else,
and when it gets too uncomfortable, like what'sthat what's that look like for you?
What does that look like?
Yeah, you know, I think I've always been thatperson who, so I get bored very easily.
(13:07):
Okay.
And so, I can be, you know, I can do something.
I can love what I'm doing.
I can be a part of it.
And you know, about five to seven years in, Iusually have this feeling like, not that I'm
totally bored, but I almost feel like as ifI've done what I came to do and now I need the
(13:32):
next thing, whatever that is.
If I look at my trajectory over my whole life,I think that's been true.
I have a lot of passion, a lot of want to do agreat job and to do what it is that I'm hired
to do, and I believe that I do that.
(13:53):
Then I get to the point of going, okay, nowwhat?
It's usually about every five to seven years Iget this nudge of what else is there?
What else can I be doing?
How else can I make an impact?
And I just I've learned over time I didn't dothis right away, but I've learned over time
(14:14):
that when I start to get those feelings, I'msupposed to pay attention to it.
There were times, I mean, when I went back atage 50 to seminary to become a pastor, you
know, I pooh poohed that idea for years.
Just thought that was craziness.
Like, that is crazy.
(14:34):
What am I even thinking?
And but it wouldn't go away.
It just was there and then people keep talkingabout it or they keep telling you, oh, you
should do this or you should do that and so Ifinally gave in and certainly it, you know, it
worked out well.
Yeah.
And so it's just, I think you have to payattention to those feelings.
(14:58):
Trust your gut and your heart way over more sothan your mind because our minds can play
tricks on us and our minds talk us out ofthings all the time.
If we pay attention to our heart and our gutand pay attention to that and maybe be open to
responding to that, you can make the leap maybefaster than I did.
(15:20):
It's taken over sixty years to figure that out.
An overnight success in sixty years, right?
I know.
Think there's many of our listeners out there.
I've had that in my career as well, you'refeeling like, okay, I think I've done what I
(15:42):
can do here.
For me, it's a ten year cycle.
I have like three ten year cycles in my careerbefore I started my businesses, and now I've
ran one business for eleven years and thenclosed it down.
And this business is nine years in, so it'slike, we'll see what happens with this But for
me, it's about a ten year cycle.
And paying attention to that within yourself.
(16:03):
If you're in a W-two job and you're ready toswitch to your next W-two job or you're an
entrepreneur or you're in a W-two job andyou're thinking, I'm ready to start my next
chapter and that could look like running my ownbusiness.
You know it's never too late.
I love that you said at age 50 you went back toseminary, right?
(16:25):
Hay House, you know people know Louise Hay, HayHouse Publishing, she started that when she was
in her 60s.
So there's lots of things that we can still doas we age, and now we bring all of that
experience with us.
Like you said, no skill is ever wasted.
So we're bringing all of that with us along theway, taking that leap with us, which I think is
(16:46):
so powerful.
I love that you shared that.
Because there's listeners out there that are onthat, getting that nudge, feeling that push to
take the leap, but aren't uncertain about it.
So how do you check-in with that deeper self tolisten and pay attention to what's kind of
(17:09):
pushing you forward or what you're being pulledtowards?
Well, I think for me, just personally, it'sreally about certain practices that I input
that I have in my life and and one of those isjust you have you have to find some time to be
quiet, just to be able to, to listen and to, torealize maybe what your heart and gut are
(17:32):
telling you.
We're so busy, and so our days are so filled,we talked about that, and we got on is that we
don't make time for that.
So there's no ability for that to even comeinto play.
I think having a practice, whatever it mightbe, mine happens to be earlier in the day
versus later in the day, but it could beanything and just being quiet where there's no
(17:58):
TV, there's no phone, there's no radio, there'sno nothing.
It's quiet and you spend time reflecting.
Some people journal, I journal sometimes andsometimes not, but you know just let the
thoughts percolate you know that and let andallow them to come to the surface instead of
(18:18):
pushing them down or pushing them away becauseyou're so busy.
Right, so having some kind of practice whereyou open up that opportunity to listen I think
is really important.
Yes.
Yeah because otherwise yeah we could go aboutour days every day and many of us do right all
day long and then by the end of the day we'reexhausted and we don't want to do anything else
(18:42):
and we're certainly not going to reflect orthink.
Right.
That we get on our phones or TV or whatever itis, but you have to be intentional.
It's an intentional practice.
So it's not something that's just going tohappen.
You have to like, this is going to be what Ido.
And it could be ten minutes, like literallyfive minutes, ten minutes, you know, it doesn't
(19:04):
have to be an hour.
And but I think those are that's a reallyimportant thing to do in order to listen and to
pay attention to maybe what's going on.
Yes, I
I totally agree.
I just gave this advice to a client.
It was given to me when I was ready to take theleap from my last job and start my first
(19:24):
business.
A friend of mine said, Ask yourself, I wonder.
Right?
And I love that question because it's an openended question.
It allows us to think outside the box.
I wonder what my next job will be.
I wonder if I'm going to commute.
I wonder if I'll work from home.
I wonder what kind of people I'm going workwith.
I wonder what kind of money I can make.
(19:45):
Wonder what services I can provide.
So I just started asking all these I wonderquestions and then being quiet with that and
saying, Okay, what's showing up for me?
I wonder what kind of skills I have that Icould bring to a business.
So it took about six months of me asking andjust noticing, like you said, you just start to
(20:07):
notice little things that are popping up.
And it's like, Oh, that could be interesting.
Could I do that?
Oh, that could be interesting.
Could I do that?
And so just asking yourself those questions.
And so I would just do it when I was drivingthe kids to school or whenever I had a quiet
moment, really asking myself, I wonder?
(20:27):
And then being quiet with the question.
Like you said, you have to hear the answer andwe fill our days and our time and everything
with so much noise.
Sometimes it's hard to hear those answers orrecognize those things when they're being put
in front of us.
That's true.
I really do believe the answers are alreadyinside of each of us.
(20:55):
They're already there, so we don't need to betold what to do.
We already know, but we have to allow for thatto, you know, to bubble up to the top so that
it can be, you know, realized.
And so, yeah, very just being intentional aboutallowing for that to happen
(21:17):
is Well thank you for bringing us back to thespiritual direction because I think I really do
want to have you clarify you know, what doesthat mean when somebody would hire you as a
spiritual direction coach?
Or is that what you call a spiritual directioncoaching, right?
Just spiritual direction practice, right?
(21:41):
But if somebody wants to hire you and iscontemplating out there, I want to know more
about spiritual direction and what would belike to work with Denise, what would you tell
them?
What can you tell us.
Yeah, you know I think it sometimes I strugglewith that because I think sometimes it is hard
to understand it unless you're doing it.
(22:02):
But I think how I usually will ask people askpeople about, you know, if you're feeling,
there's a lot of different feelings, but areyou feeling like you're not aligned, right?
Like, what you're doing and what you feel aboutwho you are and what you want to be doing
aren't quite aligned, Or there's this, youknow, idea of I don't have a purpose or what is
(22:26):
my purpose in life?
Why, you know, why did whoever the higherpower, the creator, the divine, whatever you
want to call that.
Why am I here on earth?
You
deal with the small questions, right?
Just small questions.
Just to be really clear, I don't have theanswers for all of them.
(22:48):
But what I can do is I really can, I can bepresent with people?
So all of those skills I talked about earlieris being able to be that, you know, maybe that
sounding board of, you know, you telling meyour story and what's happened and what you're
feeling.
And because I can listen and because I can, youknow, mirror back to you what you're saying,
(23:11):
sometimes I can help you clarify what it isthat's the problem or is holding you back.
It can even go as deep as you know, I actuallycome across a lot of people lately that have
had a lot of religious or church trauma intheir lives where the church has not been
incredibly friendly to them.
(23:32):
They've been, it's very actually been verytraumatic for a variety of reasons.
So they're not, you know, they're not churchgoers, not growers, goers.
Yeah.
And, But they're feeling like their foundationisn't solid.
They want something that really is solidifyingthem as a foundation, but they may not feel
(23:56):
like it needs to be necessarily religious.
Now, I'm a pastor and so people look at me likereally are you kidding me?
And I really am.
I'm that person who it doesn't have to bereligious, but you are spiritual and so it
could include a lot of different things.
I was talking to a gal earlier today about, youknow, has had a lot of church trauma where she
(24:23):
was abused really by the church.
And, know, so she's been away from the churchfor many, many years, but she wants to start a
family.
And now she's feeling like she wants to makesure that she has a strong enough foundation
that she can help her children when she hasthem to build their own foundation.
(24:44):
And so if she's not aligned or if she's notsolid, she's feeling like, then I have no
business trying to do that with my ownchildren.
So she, you know, she's coming to me to be ableto kind of talk about that and see what we can
do about creating what that foundation mightlook like for her.
(25:05):
It may have nothing to do with church.
It might not, right?
It might and it might not.
I'm kind of a companion.
I guess I'm more of a spiritual companion thanI am a director.
I don't really direct people.
I walk with them.
I walk the journey with them.
(25:26):
I listen and I help them come to thoserealizations and those, you know, decisions for
themselves because the answer, like I said, isalready in them.
They just need some help in identifying them.
And yeah,
so with the goal of creating that foundationthat can keep us solid in the times of trauma,
(25:50):
or signs of trouble, or signs of, you know,terrible things that do happen to us in life.
How can we stay solidly grounded you know whenthose things happen because they will.
Yes, yes.
And you know I'm a business coach and I workwith people in their business and there's a lot
of people who feel like I have to build thisbusiness around my one purpose, and I haven't
(26:15):
figured out my purpose so I can't be successfulin business.
There's all those mind games we play withourselves.
I love that you're able to help people reallyfeel grounded in, or discover and get clarity
around, their purpose on the planet.
And that's something that only each individualcan answer.
(26:36):
But if we don't know how to even startprocessing the information or the feedback or
any of that kind of information, that's whereyou can help be a guide for us and say okay
tell us your story.
And recognizing and reflecting back again, allthose skills you have developed your whole life
(26:57):
and come naturally to you, I know, because noteverybody can develop those skills at that
level.
I think that's really, really powerful to justhelp us.
Then once you're anchored in like, Here's mypurpose.
I'm connected to that.
That really does anchor you in so many areas ofour lives, whether it be as a parent, as a
(27:18):
volunteer, as a mom, as a sister, as a wife, asa business owner.
So that really having that core strength inknowing who we are and what we're about and
what we believe in, whether that's a doctrinefrom a church or just your own beliefs that
you've discovered on your own, I think that'sreally, really powerful.
(27:43):
It's such a gift that you're giving the peoplethat get to work with you.
Thank you.
Yeah, I really You know, I also do a lot ofjust Sometimes we just need to help clarify
what our values and our beliefs are.
You know, we might say we believe certainthings where we value this or value that.
But why and are they still our values because Ithink those things change.
(28:07):
They change for us throughout our life basedupon our experiences.
And so, you know, spending some time justclarifying those and are we aligned with them.
Am I aligned with what I say I value, becausesometimes that can be what causes us to feel
tipsy right, like well, this is just not youknow it's not congruent with who I am.
(28:29):
So how do we get back into alignment with thosethings?
It can be just as simple as that.
Yes, good.
I love it.
And we kind of talked about this earlier, but Iwant to kind of wrap up our talk today about,
you know, if our listeners out there are on theedge of taking a big leap, they're kind of
(28:53):
feeling that nudge, or they're feeling thismisalignment, and they know that there's
something different.
What's your best piece of advice again forhelping them take that action with confidence?
You know I think the number one thing is youhave to believe in yourself.
(29:14):
I think you have to believe that what you'refeeling or what you're experiencing is real and
to not be afraid of that.
That there's a reason that you are feeling thatway, that you want to take this leap, and
there's probably a need for whatever it is thatyou want to do in the world, and that it will
make it a better place.
(29:35):
I would really encourage people to not doubt,not push it away for years like I did, but to
jump into it and to learn as much as you can,Become an expert at whatever it is that you're
doing and know that there's going to befailures the good times, but the failures will
(29:59):
lead to successes.
And so I just believe in yourself.
Believe what you're feeling.
Believe that this is right and jump in.
Just jump in.
Yes, love it.
I love it.
Yes, take action.
You have to take action.
Okay, well this has been a fascinating talk.
(30:19):
I get to talk to Denise forever.
She's got so many great stories and it justbrings such a great skill set, again, of
listening and being able to reflect back topeople.
So that is a wrap for today's episode of theLeap to Success podcast.
I hope if you're listening that you foundinspiration, motivation, and a few golden
(30:40):
nuggets to take with you on your journey.
If you loved this conversation, be sure tosubscribe so that you never miss an episode
however you're listening to this or watching iton YouTube.
And if today's guest, Denise, resonated withyou, then please show her some love by sharing
this episode with your community.
Remember you can find all of Denise's contactinformation in the show notes wherever you're
(31:03):
listening or watching, so please reach out andschedule a call with her about spiritual
direction, about officiating a ceremony foryou, or if you just want to have a great
conversation with a caring human being, Deniseis your gal.
If you want to go deeper within the Leap toSuccess community, the LEAP community, you'll
(31:25):
find even more resources, connections, andopportunities to show up and grow.
You can visitsuccessmagnified.com/leapforladies to learn
more about our community.
Until next time, keep taking bold steps,contributing your gifts, and celebrating your
successes.
Thanks so much, Denise.
Thank you.
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