Old Tools, New Minds

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Two veterans compare notes across decades and land on a surprising culprit: speed. We’ve made decks faster, calls shorter, and data denser—yet clear thinking, discovery, and trust are harder to find. So we unpack how to win in a world that moves this quickly without letting the work get shallow.

We start with an honest look at craft. Flip charts forced logic; slides can hide it. That same trade-off shows up in sales. Features and price feel efficient, but real results come from visiting the operation, learning how money is made, and fixing pain the customer actually feels. We share field-tested rituals—loss reviews, win reviews, and customer councils—that reveal blind spots and shape offers that stick. There’s smart tech here too: AI models that predict companion parts and boost helpful upsells, but only because they’re tied to domain knowledge and genuine curiosity.

Culture becomes the engine. People do their best work when they’re known and safe to speak up. We talk about simple moves that change everything: time blocking that protects “think time,” a monthly “three-to-five fixes” habit anyone can own, and playful recognition that makes excellence visible. An ownership mindset—like an ESOP—teaches cause and effect, rewards small wins, and turns visibility tools from “surveillance” into shared gains. We also call out a quiet gap: parts, service, and sales management lack practical certification, so many learn to survive the job without ever learning the job. Internships, co-ops, and rotational training rebuild the bench and speed trust.

AI threads the conversation with nuance. Adoption is lower than the headlines suggest, and that’s normal; every breakthrough needs process change to matter. We argue for foundations first—teach measurement before automating it, teach thinking before prompting—and for using AI to buy back time you reinvest in relationships, strategy, and craft. The constant through every story is simple: reduce pain, earn trust, and create space to think. Do that, and the tools amplify you. Skip it, and the tools just make bad habits faster.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
Aloha and welcome to another candid conversation.
This morning we're joined withone of my favorite wisdom
sharers, David Griffith from thecold shores of Florida.
He escaped the Northeast to getto Florida and found it was in
his 20s.
Is that true, David, that it was20-something when you got there?

SPEAKER_01 (00:41):
We landed, it was 27.
The iguanas were giving up theghost, and uh they're telling me
we've been down here for a week,and uh I think you know I never
thought 57 would feel this good.
So uh that that is not in thebackground.
That is not uh that is not theuh Florida coast.
But that that looks like theHubbard Glacier.

(01:04):
It's the glaciers from uh NewZealand.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Oh, beautiful, beautiful.
Yeah, yeah.
David and I wander all over theplace.
We're we're kind of kindredsouls, we're we're similar.
I'm not gonna say octogenarians,but I'm gonna say people that
are uh eight times uh ten orseven to the tenth power or
something of that nature.

(01:28):
Yeah, you're close.
Yeah, that's that's true.
And uh I thought we start withuh just a discussion about the
time when we started to now.
Uh uh what are some of thebiggest changes that we've seen,
good or bad, and just talk aboutit.
Uh uh and after we've gonethrough that uh list, move to

(01:49):
something that worries the hellout of everybody today
artificial intelligence.
Uh and try and dispel some ofthat uh myth.
But more importantly, howtechnology is affecting us.
So that's kind of the way thatDavid and I chatted before we
started.
What would you say, David, isthe biggest change since you

(02:09):
arrived, good or bad?

SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
Oh, you know, it's when you asked the question, I
was flipping through my brain.
And I'm I'm gonna go back to myfirst job when I was a uh
trainee for IBM.
And we had to givepresentations.
And those of us who are oldenough remember you did flip
charts.

(02:33):
You you you had you know the bigflip chart paper and you planned
your presentation, and then youuh, you know, your skill as a uh
magical marker writer wasseverely tested.
But um, you know, it forced youto put together a logical
presentation.

(02:55):
And fast forward now, um, youknow, we go to PowerPoints, we
go to uh Zoom, we go to actuallyAI taking a subject matter and
creating charts, and then weedit.
And, you know, I think somewherealong the line we lose something

(03:17):
because if you made a mistake onthe flip chart, it was a pain in
the tail to correct.
And if it was a, you know, youwould take, you know, you might
throw the whole thing out andredo it.
But it forced you to thinkthrough the logic of the
presentation and um where wereyou going to go?
Whereas PowerPoint now, you youcan get that done so freaking

(03:39):
fast.
I sometimes wonder if we losesomething in the thought
process.
But that that would be one thatwould jump out to me.
I'm doing a PowerPoint pitch forthe church uh next week.
You know, and I was just it kindof dawns on me, you know, how
quickly I pulled that together.
And then I send it around foredits and got all kinds of

(04:00):
feedback, and I send it aroundagain for edits.
Um so that that's that's asimple one that I would just
pick, you know, how we presentour case in in uh to clients, to
to people in general, and um,you know, what we're doing right
here.
I'm I'm sitting in Florida,you're you're out on the islands

(04:22):
out there, you know.
You know, that that wasn'taround at all.
How many times do we get on aplane to go see somebody for an
hour?
I mean, um, and and everybody'sgonna have that same answer, but
those are two that jump in mindreal quick.

SPEAKER_00 (04:38):
I I think you you make a wonderful point.
Because it's so fast today andso easy today, Gemini co-pilot,
chat GPT.
You get an idea, you you starttalking to the computer, it
recognizes your voice, and thenthey pick it up and spit it back
to you.

(04:58):
And we don't really, and and Ilove your point, we don't really
think through the whole thing,do we?
We we're we've gotten kind oflazy in our minds
intellectually.

SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Well, you know, think about the sales call.
And um, you know, the the greatart of the sales call is to find
the customer's pain and fix it.
And you know, a lot of times,you know, I would not even open
the flip chart or the the laptopand and really just engage the

(05:32):
customer in a discussion, um,you know, or clients or friends,
even, because a lot of customersbecame friends.
And you know, my rule of ofselling was always, you know,
find the pain and fix it,whether you had the product or
you knew how to fix it.
And I just think, you know, whatI worry about, and I see in a

(05:53):
lot of Salesforce now, is justyou know, thinking through the
sales strategy, thinking throughthe product strategy, thinking
where the customer's pain is.
Um, we used to call it reads,speeds, and feeds, and we
thought, you know, a lot ofmistakes were were made.
Well, you know, let me come inand start telling you what I got

(06:14):
to sell versus what you need.
Um, and I don't know ifPowerPoint, I you know, I think
PowerPoint is terrific, don'tget me wrong.
I mean, it's uh it certainly hassaved the paper industry, but
you know, it's uh it's it's justI I think we've lost think time.

SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
One of the things I I agree with that, one of the
things that jumps into my headis have you worked with Japanese
companies much?
Uh yeah, for for a little bit,yeah.
They have a PowerPoint andthey'll put everything on one
slide.
And it's like there's agajillion things on that slide,
and they draw arrows up theretalking back and forth, and and

(06:56):
they they don't know how topresent a damn thing.
One you you and I talked aboutthis one of the times we did
before, and and the line that Iremember you giving me is that
we're we're um we're spendingour grandchildren's legacy
today.
I I call it we're putting profitahead of people.
Grandchildren ahead of greed.

SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
And or greed ahead of grandchildren, rather.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, my my my when I wasrunning the academy of that
where I was working at theAcademy of Natural Sciences, was
you know, we're you know, yeah,grandchildren over greed ought
to be what we're thinking about.

SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
It it sure would be.
And then we're like you say,we're not thinking like we used
to.
We don't have that uh time.
And and the argument I did I'vedone many chats like this is you
know, and the argument thatalways comes back to me is we
don't have time.
And and I wonder why we're so uhfixated on fixing the problem

(08:01):
today, the problem now, ratherthan finding a solution so that
problem never comes back.

SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Well, are you fixed?
Yeah, are you fixing a symptomor are you fixing the cause?

SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Well, that that's the other thing, but then we
also, from a managementleadership perspective, you're
you're famous for going aroundand asking how everybody is and
and getting to know people andbuilding a culture.
And and Patrick Lencioni's firstbook was The Three Signs of a
Miserable Job, and EmployeesFeel Anonymous.
Nobody knows who they are, theydon't know if they're married,

(08:36):
have children, sickness,parents, whatever.
And I believe that's kind oftrue.
And Muddy Boots, your your blogaims at that.
You you went out to stores andtalked to people.

SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
Well, I I think you know, you go out into the field
and you ask two questions.
Um how how are you doing?
How are we doing?
And then the question of whatcan we do better.
I I I you know it's Ron, it'sit's evolved over time, but you

(09:12):
know, my philosophy of ofselling and marketing is that
look, I'm I'm never going to below price, but I'm always going
to be low cost.
And and what I mean by that isif yes, we have products, yes,
we have services, but if we canhelp you move your business

(09:38):
forward and solve your pain,your problems, then um we will
lower your cost.
And at the end of the day, youknow, you're gonna have two
identical products.
But if one is helping you thinkthrough a strategy in your
business or solve problems inyour business and how to use the

(10:01):
tool or how to use the product,um and again, it depends on the
products.
I mean, let's let's let's bevery precise on that.
But I think a lot of the valuefor an organization is the skill
and the know-how, how to use theproducts you sell uh in the most
effective and efficient way.
And sometimes it has nothing todo with the product, but you

(10:25):
have domain knowledge orexpertise access that you guys
say, hey, I know a guy.
Let me bring him in.
It's like I'm bringing an um AIspecialist right now to
companies and saying, I knowwhat you think it is.
I want you to listen to this guyand realize where the future is.
Um and you know, and light bulbsare going off.

(10:48):
But you know, the whole point ofbeing in business is to lower
your customers' pain and helpthem be successful.
And if you take that approach,they're going to do business
with you all day long.
And frankly, I don't think thathas changed since you and I
started to today.
I think that is a constant rulefor success in the marketplace.

(11:11):
You know, understand where thepain is and let's go fix it.
And by the way, I got someproducts that you buy that'll
help do it.
It's a whole different way ofthinking about selling versus,
hey, I got a copier, it does 800pages per second.
You know, this much ink is goingto save you electricity, and how
many do you want?
Oh, you already have 45 copiers,you know.

SPEAKER_00 (11:34):
Yeah.
Um, you know, it's it's I I Icouldn't agree with you more,
but what I will say is peopledon't do that anymore.
Very few salesmen do thatanymore.

SPEAKER_01 (11:46):
Well, I I it that's true.
And you think about it, youknow, how do we engage a
customer these days?
You know, that what we're doingright now is often the interface
that we have versus thatpersonal relationship of you
know, sitting in a conferenceroom and getting to know each

(12:07):
other and and talking thingsthrough.
Um, but the real issue of thesales is let me come visit your
operation.
Talk to me about what you do.
You know, how do you make money?
You know, it's uh, you know,what's what's what's the firm's
goal?
And if you understand that, andthen you can design or figure

(12:28):
out your product set and skillswhere that helps that, that sale
becomes a hell of a lot easier.
And I I still think there'speople out there that do that
really well.
Oh, I but it's a it's it's alost art.

SPEAKER_00 (12:43):
Yeah.
You know, a good salesmandoesn't sell a damn thing the
customer buys.
Because the customer I I used aguy would call me up.
This is years ago.
I got a problem, Ron.
I said, What's the problem?
They would tell me.
And I'd say, Okay, you don'thave a problem anymore.
He said, Yeah, I got a problem.

(13:03):
I said, No, no, it's mine.
Let me let me work on it, I'llbe back to you.
And they'd hang up the phone.
And they they trusted me.
But you have to earn that trust.
You you you gotta earn respect.
You don't necessarily get whatyou deserve.
You you get what you earn.

SPEAKER_01 (13:24):
Well, and and again, and you know, we're talking
about when we started and andnow, and I just think that you
know, there's certainfundamentals that don't change.
And I just really think, youknow, the ability to solve a
client's problems and and andlower paying is I'm not sure
technology helps or hurts that.

(13:45):
I mean, it really, you know, Igo back to the flip chart
example.
Are you taking the time toreally think through, you know,
a strategy to engage with acustomer, a how you build
relationships, how you buildtrust.
Um, you know, what I worry aboutis in this online marketplace,

(14:06):
everything, you know, you seefeature, function, and price.
And and in nowhere, when youkind of go through this, is
well, here's the best way to usethe product, or here are the
applications, or, you know,these these are what we're
design, or by the way, we'reopen to uh, you know, your
suggestions.
I I love running, I'm doing alot of consulting these days,

(14:29):
and uh I'm working with a um howdo I describe it?
They're really a uh a rentaldevelopment shop and strategic
planning shop.
And they were really havingtrouble going the market and
thinking about things.
I said, okay, we're gonna do acustomer council.
And we brought in eightcustomers, a couple other good

(14:52):
ones, a couple ones in themiddle, and I got two to come
that they weren't doing businesswith.
And um, and we just startedtalking about you know, the
whole marketplace of umfundraising.
These were all nonprofits.
And uh, you know, where where isyour pain point?

(15:13):
Where are your challenges?
And what emerged out of that wasum uh a really wonderful need
statement.
Like, well, you know, I can'tafford four people in my
advancement department.
You know, I can only go afterthe big grants, not the little
ones.
Um there were there was just,you know, and feedback about

(15:35):
where to go.
And then the customers that weredoing business with us started
talking about where the company,you know, had some abilities for
some things they'd like to seetweaked.
And maybe we spent three, threeand a half hours.
I know we went through a hell ofa lot of puffy.
And um it was just this greatdiscussion.

(15:55):
And then at the end, I said,okay, now you got eight people
you got to go back to andengage.
And we locked down all eightcustomers or grew each customer
because they had told us whatthey wanted and where they were
struggling.
So then if we're gonna go designa new product or a new offering
or a new hire, it allowed us todo so with a level of

(16:18):
intelligence.
And, you know, this is wheremarket research, I think it's
been going on as long as you andI have been around and way
longer than that.
I don't think we we reallylisten to customers because of
all this online stuff anddiscussion.
Um you know, I I read a lot ofbland stuff out there.

(16:41):
And you know, I go I I go onLinkedIn and I see the articles
or I see this or that, and I'mgoing, Jesus, this hasn't even
been written by a human.
Um things I think.

SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
You know, it it's I have a little exercise that I've
been using for 30 years as aconsultant called needs and
wants.
And we'd have the departmentpeople one night for an hour and
a half sit in a room, we bringin pizza, and okay, folks, what
do you think the customer needsand wants from us?

(17:15):
And whatever they spit out, Iput up on a flip chart.
I'm not gonna use a a tablet ora computer at that point, but
I'm gonna put it up so they cansee this whole thing all
evolving.
And I don't edit it, I just putthem up there.
And after about an hour or ahundred items, whichever happens
first, I say, okay, fine, let'sconsolidate these things.

(17:36):
Which of these are similar?
And we end up with a list often.
I said, Okay, fine, that's thetop ten.
What's number one?
And we rank them all the waydown.
Kill the meeting, it's over.
Thanks very much.
The next month I bring incustomers, six to eight of them,
just like what you did.
The employees are sitting infront of the six or eight
customers, they're a panel I'mmoderating.

(17:56):
I ask them the same question.
What do you guys need and wantfrom this company?
And they are a little shy, butthey get over it because I'm a
bit of a jerk and I can getpeople talking, and I start
writing them down.
And we go through the wholething, and then I rank them, and
we end up with the top ten.
And everybody, the cut, you allagree with that?
Yep, that's terrific.
Thanks very much.

(18:17):
The following month, I bringthem all back.
I got the two lists of ten.
I say, okay, congratulations.
Which ones are identical?
And we put those to the side.
I'm not worried about thoseanymore.
Which ones are on their listthat aren't our nearest?
What's going on?
How come you didn't know that?

(18:37):
What's on your list that theyweren't interested in?
Why do you do that?
We do a lot of stuff becausewe've done it forever without
re-evaluating whether it'snecessary or not.
And the interesting thing, andyou bring up a wonderful point,
here comes the internet today.
And almost everybody has access,every customer has access to a

(18:58):
dealer portal where they can gocheck a parts availability,
check a parts price, they cancheck server stuff, all kinds of
magic.
And so I got a guy last night,he looks at our site, he's a
contractor, small guy, he doeshis own buying, he does that
after he's done a full day'swork and had dinner, put his

(19:19):
family to bed.
He checks the part number, wegot it, checks the price, he got
it.
Didn't place an order.

SPEAKER_01 (19:28):
The next morning, nobody does anything.
Hey, Ron, hang on one sec.
Do you want me to go with you atfour?
Okay.
Sorry.
The boss just walked in.

SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
Yeah, no problem.
So tomorrow morning, I wantsomebody from the parts
department to call to call youup and say, hey Dave, I noticed
last night you were looking atour website and you checked the
part number.
Yeah, you found out we have it,and yeah, we you you checked it.
Tell me, did you buy it?
I didn't see a place in order.

(20:02):
And they said, Yeah, I did.
Well, you didn't buy it from us.
Do you mind ask telling me whoyou bought it from?
And they tell me.
I said, Well, okay, that's good.
What do you particularly likeabout doing business with them?
And they tell me we don't do anyof that.
Or let change that.
Very few people do any of that.

SPEAKER_01 (20:24):
Well, and and you know, here's uh no, it's exactly
right.
And it's just, you know, no, wehave win reviews, we have loss
reviews in the old days, and um,you know, it was uh a pretty
pretty formal process.
And the the thing that I youknow, you talk about the parts

(20:46):
business.
My son runs the online partsbusiness back uh back at Modern.
And uh, you know, he's he'sbuilt an AI model now that you
know they've that the team builtand helped, and we're using it.
And so if a customer calls upand wants this part, rather than
searching through all the partscatalog, it immediately gives

(21:06):
him all the likely parts thatthat guy's gonna need if he's
doing doing this.
So the upsell opportunity ishuge.
And the opportunity to say, hey,look, you know, you know, you
decide what you want to do, butthis is what people typically
will order with this part andwhy.
You know, you're gonna rip outthe gaskets, you've got to put
new ones in.
Oh, yeah, okay, add that.

(21:27):
And you know, I I marvel at atuh that's where you know you
would kill for technology.
But it's uh you're raised aninteresting point because the
you know I it's the humanthinking and problem solving

(21:49):
with domain knowledge that youknow maybe AI is gonna get
there, maybe not.
I I just um you know, and thenwhere's the accountability?

SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
That's the other problem that that's going to get
really, really interesting.
Well, AI told me to do this.
Well, I'm except I'm hiring youto do it.

SPEAKER_00 (22:10):
You know, well, you you mentioned AI and and your
son, and not to take anythingaway from that, but I was using
Bill and the In the 70s forrepairs.
So a guy comes in, he wants histurbocharger changed, fixed.
Here's the list of parts that goin that turbocharger.
Here's the frequency of use forevery single one of those

(22:32):
things.
Today we've got life cyclemanagement statistics coming out
the wazoo.
Hardly anybody ever uses those.
Your son's an aberration.
He's far and far ahead ofbecause he's thinking.
Well, you know, he he'smotivated, let's put it that
way.
Yeah, well, you know, the theone of the books, and and you've

(22:52):
heard me talk about this, isindistractable.
And it deals with setting youryour day up with blocks of time
rather than to-do lists.
And it it's been a wonderfulhelp for me because it took all
the stress away from what I Ido.
But almost invariably, toanybody I talk with, their
biggest enemy is time, theydon't have enough time.

(23:16):
And so I asked them, you know,what are you doing?
So somebody would come to myoffice, and I used to use this
example in a service managementclass all the time.
Somebody comes to your officedoor, Mr.
Service Manager, and wants toask you a question.
What do you do?
Well, I give them an answer.
Really?
Why?
Well, he came to me for ananswer.

(23:37):
So he can park his brains at thedoor, and you're gonna answer
all his questions.
Is that what you're saying?
No.
Well, how do you force him tocome to it with a solution?
Why don't you ask him what doyou think you should do?
Well, that takes too much time.
I don't have time.
Oh, really?
So you're gonna continue to dothis forever?

(23:58):
You know, it's it's ludicrous.
And and that's an answer in theparts management job, too.
George, I can't get this part.
Where where have you looked?
It it it's it's simple stuff,David.

SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
Yeah, and that's the common sense.
And you know, my fear is thatthese systems, you know, the the
real art in these systems isgoing to be to train them and
move that domain knowledge andthat interest, and then one
would hope would free up yourtime for think time, customer

(24:35):
interaction, thinking aboutwhat's the next campaign, what's
the next deal that we want torun?
Um, and you know, what I worryabout is that we're gonna double
the speed of transaction, butwe're not gonna double the speed
uh the availability think time.
And and to, you know, what youwant is everybody looking at the

(24:59):
big picture and saying, is therea better way?
Is there an opportunity thatjust blew by here that we want
to grab hold of?
And you know, I think the otherside of that is giving people
permission to do that and andand pushing down, you know, one
of the great values of, youknow, we we, as you know, Ron,

(25:20):
we're 100% Aesop now.
So every employee at Modern isan owner.
And congratulations, that's aheck of accomplishment.
Well, and and you know, it'sbeen okay, it's coming up on 20
years.
And what what we've had a chanceto see in a major way is that
everybody owns it and everybodyunderstands what drives the

(25:42):
share price.
That's not an easy thing to getacross, but every year we train,
we talk.
But you see people come up andsaying, hey, you know, we could
do this for safety.
We could um, you know, could welook at these kind of things in
the band that might savesomething?
Um it's interesting, you know,we put cameras in all the bands,

(26:06):
and um uh we were able toreally, we had two or three
folks who were causing us a lotof problems with speeding
tickets and you know, rest of mystuff.
And it goes on, but the one, theone that really cracked me up,
you'll enjoy this given you knowour history.
We uh the the camera alsomonitors whether the engine's on

(26:28):
or not.
And we had a couple guys wholiterally they'd be at a job,
and the the edge was neverturned off.
And we finally said, What areyou doing?
He says, Well, it's really hotout here.
And when I get back in, I likethe air conditioning to be
running.
And in the winter, they wererunning the heat.
Now you can imagine the gas wewere burning and the pollution

(26:51):
and all that, but you know, wehad got guys out on the road,
and we said, Hey, you know,dude, you know, let's think
about this.
It, you know, it but it's, youknow, as you well know, you make
money by chipping away at thelow-hanging fruit.
And, you know, there's a casewhere technology gave us
visibility and the guys, we whyare you spying on me?
I said, Well, why are yourunning gas the whole time?

(27:13):
It wasn't me, it was the guyswho are running the business
now, but they tell me thatstory.
And, you know, I I think there'sopportunities with technology
and monitoring and and justself-awareness, you know, and
training people that, you know,um, that's why I love, you know,
I always loved, you know, if wedid well, everybody did well.

(27:34):
Yeah.
Um, and and so, you know, therewas a built-in incentive model
that that people would payattention to the little stuff,
yeah, which adds up to be bigstuff.

SPEAKER_00 (27:45):
Yeah.
I that's another exercise I'vehad for years, either three or
five things, and once a month Iwant you to give me a list of
three or five things that aregoing to make your job easier,
make the company more money,save the company mu save the
company money, or eliminatesomething.

(28:05):
And every month I would get itfrom everybody and we'd sit down
and talk about it.
And if it was a good idea, said,okay, fine, it's your idea, go
make it happen.
So, you know, they've people areafraid to stick their head up
for fear they're going toembarrass themselves.
And I want to cry and create anenvironment where you can say

(28:26):
whatever you want, whenever youwant to me about anything you
want, without fear.

SPEAKER_01 (28:32):
Well, you knew my expression of that one is make
it safe to name the elephant.
And and especially if you're theelephant.
Precisely.
Yeah.
And uh, we I think we've talkedabout this before.
We literally had little stuffedelephants around, and they were
in the conference room.
If you grabbed the elephant,people knew that you had

(28:52):
something to say.
And I made damn sure, I haveholes in my tongue on this one,
that you were safe.
And um, and it uh it it reallywas an interesting culture
change, but you know the worstthing you can do is overreact to
something.
But you know, that'sinteresting, used to be you

(29:15):
know, one of my favoritephrases.
Then I had to think about it.
But I love people on people onthe ground, you know, know it,
but it's uh and that's acultural bias, and that's not
going to come from technology.

SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
Oh no, no, no, not at all.
We at Finning, you you bring upa memory.
We used to give trophies outonce a quarter, and there were
three trophies.
One had a dollar sign on the topof it, one had an idea, like a
light bulb on the top of it, andone had a horse's ass.
And the managers all voted forfor each other.

(29:52):
Who's the guy that had the bestidea?
Who's the guy that made the mostmoney, and who was the biggest
pain in the ass to deal with?
And we had a you know, it wasn'tvirtual in those days, but we
had a meeting every quarterwhere everybody came together
and we handed them out and madea big fuss about it, put
pictures up, framed thepictures, gave it to them, and
they hung them in the store.
We did the same thing forin-store merchandising.

(30:14):
Send me a picture of your shop.
What do you got on the floor inthe parts department?
What in the service department?
You selling hand gloves, pullthem, come along, is all
everything, anything.
It's a retail store, damn it.
Let's have some fun.

SPEAKER_01 (30:27):
And that's where the issue is how do you make it fun
and how do you make it safe?
Yep, safe is big.
Yep, and and you know, everybodyhas options, and um, you know,
you know, the other great lessonis people are just wired
differently, thank God, becauseif we're all one type, we never

(30:48):
could build a business.
And um I I'll never forget wehad a guy who worked in our
parts counter for 30 years, andhe he went to become manager of
the parts department, but heknew parts inside and out.
And I and I asked him, I said,why, you know, you bright guy.

(31:09):
I said, why why here?
He said, look, I I have a asecure job with good benefits, I
I love what I do.
Um, and you know, I, you know,is there stress?
Yes, but for me, this is a job Ican handle.

(31:30):
And by the way, I coach in theevenings, I have, you know, my
family, and you know, I I uh I'mmoney isn't the most important
thing to me.
And you know, he needed it topay the bills, but I I it just
struck me.
Here's a guy who's got his shittogether a hell of a lot better
than I do, you know, when youthink about it.

SPEAKER_00 (31:51):
Yeah, no, it's it's true.
Different people have differentviews of work-life balance, and
I I use that for expression justbecause that's the common one
today.
But it it um, you know, all theway through our lives we're
taught to be obedient, toprotect us when we're little, to
learn how to do arithmetic inEnglish, to learn how to do a

(32:12):
job, and nobody really gives uspermission to fail.
And I want to give people thepermission to make mistakes, to
fail, without getting killed inreturn.
Uh a little tidbit.
I was working in the warehouseone day at Hewitt early in my
career, so I got sweatpants andsweatshirt, and I'm dirty,

(32:35):
covered with stuff, I'm movingthings around.
And uh, and the chairman of thecompany comes out, Bob Hewitt,
and he was an elegant guy, about6'3, 6'4.
He's got a three-piece suit on.
He puts his arm around myshoulders, he said, Ron, I'm
really disappointed in you.
And I looked up at him, and youknow the kind of jerk I am.
I said, Me too, Bob, what's yourconcern?

(32:57):
And you could see his face justdisappear.
He wanted to laugh, but hecouldn't.
He said, When you're finished,come to my office.
I want to talk to you.
You know, silly, like, what areyou gonna do?
Shoot me?
What's this?
That's manipulation personified.
I worked in a prison, I wastaught how to manipulate people,
believe me.

(33:17):
But there's another other case,the son-in-law of the
dealership.
He was the vice president ofproduct support, and I was a
general parts manager.
And I I went to him and I said,Look, I've only got a half day's
work.
I need you to give me more todo, otherwise, I'm gonna start
going home at noon.
And a couple weeks later, I wentback and reminded him, and I

(33:40):
said, Don't forget, you gottagive me more work.
So the month end comes and goes,and the first day of the next
month I could I leave at noon.
Second day I leave at noon.
Third day I leave at noon, butI'm left a note on my desk, come
see me tomorrow.
So I go to his office.
He says, What are you doing?
I said, I told you what I wasdoing.
Well, you can't go home at noon.

(34:01):
I told you I was gonna go homeat noon.
You didn't give me more work, soI went home at noon.
What do you want me to do?
Put my feet up and read a book?
He said, You stay here all day,and he loaded me up.
I did it to him again one moretime.
He said, Go away.
You know, it's we we don'tunderstand the capacity and the
potential of somebody like thatgentleman was perfectly happy,

(34:23):
an expert in his field, he lovedit, he did it well, he coached
at night, he contributed tosociety, he had a happy family.
Life is good, like you say, hehas his stuff together better
than you and I.

SPEAKER_01 (34:36):
And and and there's the challenge of management,
because how do you hire a mix ofthat?
And and how do you you knowrespect that so that everybody
is valued and and therecognition that without people

(34:57):
like that, the parts shopdoesn't work, you know, without
people who you know, everybodyhas uh you know a place and a
gift and a and a role.
And you know, the arrogantsalesman used to drive me nuts.
You know, come here, well, I'mthe most important guy in the
world.
And I said, okay, nobody's gonnafix your truck.

(35:18):
What's gonna happen?
Well, or you know, and it's justyou know, this this idea of
respect for the team, you know,if there's not a quarterback
alive that doesn't love hisfront line.

SPEAKER_00 (35:29):
And give them a hell of a reward at the end of the
year.

SPEAKER_01 (35:32):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it, you know, and andyou know it's just I think
there's you know, there's a lotto be learned in that lesson,
you know.
Um and it it's uh I'm alwaysfascinated by the dynamics of
the sports team, you know, andso that, you know, that and

(35:54):
again, that's where thisisolation in technology gives me
pause.
You know, it's it's the um Ilove the productivity.
I love the fact that you and Ican do this 15,000 miles apart
or whatever the hell we are,probably 10,000.
And you know, it's it's you knowall to the good, but how do you

(36:16):
maintain that human interaction,that relationship building, the
the ability to assess and reallyevaluate a customer's needs or
an employee's needs.
And and to my mind, you can usetechnology, but then you got to
be intentional with your timeand say, hey, I want to, you

(36:38):
know, I want to connect withyou.
Um, I uh we run a scholarshipprogram, and you know, I I
called the dad the other day andI said, Hey, you know, your
daughter hasn't gotten it in.
And he says, you know, thankyou.
I had no idea.
And I said, Well, look, I mean,she's obviously really smart,
um, given where she is, youknow, I'd I'd love to see her

(37:00):
compete.
And um, you know, I probably gothell from the daughter, but I
really didn't care because Iwanted to make sure she, you
know, she had the opportunity.
But, you know, it's it's it'sthose kinds of things that
build, you know, a family atwork.
And I I I just really think, andthis is one of the reasons I

(37:23):
love smaller businesses and youknow, IBM, there's no way you
could do it.
But in a company of a hundredhundred people, you get to you
get to know everybody if you'reintentional about it.
And to me, that's that's apretty big lever that you can
pull.

SPEAKER_00 (37:39):
Um how how do you know an employee is doing a good
job?

SPEAKER_01 (37:46):
Um you know, it's um that's that's a a great
question, Ron.
And uh, you know, my you know,I'm gonna give you two answers.

SPEAKER_00 (38:06):
If if if it's hardly surprising, sir.

SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Yeah, I know, I know, but you know, if it's a
mechanic, I'm gonna look at uhmechanics easy.

SPEAKER_00 (38:17):
Go into the office, take away, go away from the shop
floor.
I'm not gonna let you get theeasy one.

SPEAKER_01 (38:22):
Yeah, okay.
Um well, there's stilldeadlines, there's still work
parks, there's all that stuff.
What I would tell you around isif um you're walking around,
they look up and they smile andthey're excited and they tell
you something they're doing orthey want to share something.
Whereas the people who like, oh,here comes the boss, and I hope
he's not walking into my cube.

(38:44):
Um I and I think people, youknow, if they're willing to
engage, if if um I'm kind ofthinking on the go here, that's
a great question.

SPEAKER_02 (38:55):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (38:56):
Um, you know, people who, hey, let me show you what
I'm doing.
Let me let me uh um, you know,how's it going?
And you don't get a pat answer.
Um, I mean, that that would be,you know, just kind of my my
experience.
And um and and probably theother way now is do I know their

(39:17):
story because they've shared itwith me?
I I think might be the way, youknow, how's your son doing?
You know, he was in thehospital, you know, how's he
feeling?
You know, um, yeah.
Um yeah, every everybody's gotsomething they're proud of, and
and are you aware?
You were president of Mejida toofor a while, weren't you?
One year, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:38):
I was on the board for a long time.
Does Mejida have any help thatthey give for management
certifications or oh yeah, no,no.

SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
I mean, most trade associations have all kinds of
education concept.
I was president Mejida in 05, sothat's making me feel really
freaking old.

SPEAKER_02 (39:57):
But uh don't do that, don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 (40:04):
What year did you start at IBM leaving?
When you left school, you wentright to IBM, right?

SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
Yeah, I I I graduated in 76, and in August
of that year I were I went towork for IBM.

SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
Okay, so 1976.
That puts you at the 50-yearmark.
You could.
I started in 69.
I started teaching in 65, sothat's 60 years.
Yeah.
You you know, we want to talkabout old stuff.
I have part of learning withoutscars.

(40:36):
We have a certification programwe're we're trying to come up
with.
We have got and we start everymanagement function in part
service, selling, marketing, andcustomer service.
You have 120 questions, multiplechoice, and you get a score zero
to forty percent, forty tosixty, sixty to eighty, eighty
to a hundred.
And they're not easy.

(40:57):
So I take a guy who's worked thecounter, I take a guy who's been
a foreman on the floor, I take aguy who's done warranty, I take
a product support sales manager,and I give them the test.
Where do you think they score?
What's your you know, guts say?

SPEAKER_01 (41:17):
You know, I the systems engineer me has got to
ask a question.
I mean, I don't know.
Ask a question.
What what are the nature of thequestions?
Okay, with the jobs, I think.
I I'm gonna guess, depending,you know, the guys who have been
there for a year.

SPEAKER_00 (41:38):
20 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 (41:39):
30 years.
Okay, so a 30-year employee, itbetter be somewhere in the 70s.

SPEAKER_00 (41:46):
In the 50s is a high amorti.
Yeah.
And the reason is they don'tknow what the job is.
They figured out how to do thejob to survive, but that ain't
the job.
The customer walks into thecounter, sits down with a

(42:09):
salesperson to have a chat.
He gets up and leaves, he didn'tbuy anything.
The customer never calls back.
That's part of the job.
They never consider that.
Making upbound phone calls.
I used to stick a pick up thereceiver at the counter, David,
and put the receiver at theguy's ear.

(42:29):
I say, What's that noise?
And he looks at me like I'mcrazy.
It's the dial tone, because theynever hear it.
So I'm talking to two schools onTuesday, I guess, Tuesday or
Wednesday.

SPEAKER_01 (42:45):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:45):
And and there is certification in the automotive
industry, there is certificationfor nurses, for accountants,
etc.
etc.
But there's no certification forparts management or service
management or sales management.

SPEAKER_01 (42:59):
There's there's sales manager schools, but I
often wonder what they'rereally.
You see, my in my experience,the best salesmen often make the
worst sales managers.
No question.
And the best and the and thebest sales managers sometimes
are salesmen who didn't do sowell.
And and I I think there'sabsolutely a linkage there.

SPEAKER_00 (43:20):
I I love your analogy to the sports industry
because the superstars.
Can you name one superstar whowas a good coach?
I can name one, and I love theguy.
What are you thinking about?

SPEAKER_01 (43:39):
Bill Russell.
Oh.
I was thinking football.
Yeah, no, that that is a goodexample.

SPEAKER_00 (43:47):
Only one year did he not win a national championship.
University of of San Francisco,two years running, NCAA, every
year at the Celtics, except thefirst year he was player coach.
He didn't know how to do it.
The second year he won it again.
In football, I can't think ofone.
But your other analogy, the guythat's not the superstar, Scotty

(44:09):
Bowman, great coach, yeah, wasnot a good player.
No, Wayne Greske tried to coach,couldn't coach to save his life.

SPEAKER_01 (44:17):
Well, he couldn't.
Teach what he did.

SPEAKER_00 (44:20):
Yeah, well, it's it's yeah, it it sometimes and
that gets back to uh differentpersonality profiles on hiring.
Jake Jay Lucas that did uhJordan Sitter and I did one
yesterday, a podcast.
And he's a particularly talentedguy.
And I said, How do you know whenyou're you're giving a client

(44:40):
somebody who fits their culture?
He said, We don't.
I said, Well, why don't you?
He says, Because the companydoesn't know their culture.
And there's a critique that'sinteresting, isn't it?
So at at Finning and at Hewittin Canada, we used to hire
somebody as a summer internbefore they graduated, either

(45:01):
undergraduate or master's.
And at Finning, we always hadthe youngest manager lead them,
and that was me in both cases.
In Hewitt, it was much smaller,so we only had two or three
people.
But at Finning, we had 12 to 20people.
And I'd stick them on thewarehouse floor for the first 30
days, and they're receivingparts, putting parts away,
counting parts, picking parts,dirty, sweaty, hard work, and

(45:24):
I'd lose about a third of them.
Thank you very much.
That's a qualifier.
The rest of them, we bouncedaround through all the jobs,
guaranteed them a job if theygraduated, and came back and we
gave them an 18-month trainingprogram, three months in every
department.
After that, they either got asmall branch or a small sales
territory.
I got to finning in 1978.
They've been doing that since1965.

(45:46):
Every parts manager, everyservice manager, every branch
manager had come through thecompany that way.
Can you imagine trying to breakthat culture apart?

SPEAKER_01 (45:57):
I I would think, I mean, that's just fundamental.
You know, I am a huge fan ofco-op education.
I just sat down after uh, Iguess eight years as being a
trustee at Truxley University.
They and uh Boston are two ofthe really strong co-op

(46:18):
programs.
And I had a student, excuse me,a faculty member.
We were just talking about theattributes, and he said there's
two great gifts in a co-op.
One is if you know what you wantto do and you go co-op and you
discover that you hate it, youhaven't spent four years get a

(46:39):
job, and then you know, be welldown the road before you realize
that you it it's it's not amatch, if you will.
And the other side of it is ifyou do find you love it, you
then tune your curriculum forthe next two.
Yeah, you you go, man, I'm goingall in on this, but I I'm doing

(46:59):
it with a passion because I'veseen what, you know, I've seen
the future and I like it.
Um and and the the other onethat I love is and we did this
when I was running thenonprofit, is but interns who
need a thousand hours of fieldwork.
And it it it was almostcriminal.
We would we would have eight orten interns on and at the end of

(47:22):
their their cycle.
I would always hire two.
And if if six had busted theirbutt, I would pick up the phone
and and make sure my my mycolleagues in the industry
interviewed them.
And I was committed to trying tohelp them get the job.
And you know, when that wordwent out, boy, we got the best
and the brightest.
And it was uh it was almostillegal.

(47:44):
I mean, we we got great, greattalent.

SPEAKER_00 (47:47):
Well, and I think that's something else that
companies fail miserably at.
They don't provide mentors, theydon't use interns enough, they
don't develop a bench strength,they don't ask their employees
to train, sit beside and helpother people.
And I think we could get a hellof a lot further with that.
That's the greed over yourgrandchildren.

(48:09):
You know, it's um make makeeverybody better.
You know, I don't know if we'vetalked about this.
I was a swimmer competitively asa kid, and the one of the best
lessons I ever learned, and Iwas about 14, I think.
I never lost a right sideCanadian records for years.
But I'd be sick leaving home,I'd be sick when I got to the

(48:32):
pool, and if there was anythingleft before I went out to the
blocks, I'd I'd be sick again.
And it bothered me.
I said, What the hell's thematter with you?
Do you need to win that bad, orare you afraid to fail that bad?
And I came to peace with itsaying that if you take one to
its extreme, you take yourstrongest attribute to its
extreme, it's your biggestweakness.
It's true in life.

(48:54):
And uh when I came to thatconclusion, the other thing that
came to me is, well, the onlyperson that you need to compete
with in life is yourself, notanybody else.
And that helped me in business.
All I was never trying to getthe job ahead of you or get the
raise ahead of you.
I just did my job.
As a result of that, the companygave me all kinds of things to

(49:17):
do that was fun.
I got all the tough stuff.
Go fix that.
I love that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (49:23):
Yeah, I yeah, there's there's and I I 80%
agree with that, but I alsothink sometimes you gotta
compete to learn, if you will.
Um, you know, you gotta you umand and compete's the wrong

(49:47):
word, but shadow or partner.

SPEAKER_00 (49:49):
I I love observer.
I love you, man.
It's not a it's not a hundredpercent.
You need to you be need to beable to light a fire under
somebody who could conceivablybe complacent.
Yep.
And then you got the argumentboth were like the gentleman
that has life that are bettertogether better than you and I.
Yeah.

(50:09):
Half of them you have to leavealone because they got it
figured out.
The other half you got to helpthem get there.

SPEAKER_01 (50:15):
Yeah, and and that's and and that's really kind of my
I mean, yeah.
Me too.
What I always prided myself onwas the ability to see a spark
in somebody and and reallychallenge them to light the
fire, if you will, to totallybutcher that analogy.
But you know, I I I rememberwhen I was running the

(50:36):
nonprofit, I had somebody comein who wanted to volunteer.
And um she was a rock star, buta new mom.
And we we figured out how tomake that work, and she wound up
becoming my chief operatingofficer.
And you know, it was justbecause oh my god, this is this
person has got just enormoustalent, but let's figure out how

(50:59):
to solve her family need.

SPEAKER_02 (51:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (51:03):
And and we were able to work that out and turn this
off.
Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (51:08):
Yeah, no, no, that's fine.
The the you know, and and I usethat's that's a great example on
the on the flip side, too.
My grandson is on the autismspectrum, and we know a hell of
a lot more about it today thanwe did 40 years ago.
And 40 years ago we would callit retarded, but he's a
four-point student.
He wanted to go into I think Imight have told you this, wanted

(51:30):
to do nuclear engineering and atPurdue it was$350,000.
For me, when I went in the1800s, it was you know two grand
for four years.
So we have in a department,well, we have 168-hour classes,
so I've got about sixteen,eighteen hundred hours of

(51:52):
learning.
Ten hours of learning with us isan academic credit at any
vocational community college,public, private university.
So I've got about 180 creditsthat you can get.
In other words, you can get abachelor's degree from us or an
associate's degree, and that'scool.
Our classes are a hundred bucks.

(52:14):
I'm dealing with a large schoolin Texas that has 700,000
students.
Big well, it's a consolidationof schools in the Dallas
Metroplex.
Okay, so it's junior colleges,it's vocational, it's public,
it's colleges, the whole thing.

(52:35):
And I say, You're gonna be able,your students are gonna be able
to get a degree for about$2,500,$3,500 from us.
He said, Well, we we we we can'tuse you then.
I said, Why not?
He said, Well, that's a hell ofa cheaper than what we're
charging.
I said, Okay, I'll tell youwhat, I'll charge you my price.

(52:57):
You package it differently, andyou charge whatever you want.
He said, Oh, we could do that.
And then I said to him, thinkabout what you just said to me.
And then the other thing that'sinteresting talking to the
schools, this is kind of weird.
I have to charge sales tax.

(53:17):
There's no university in thecountry, no technical school in
the country that charges salestax.
Why the hell, because I don'thave a professor in front of a
classroom, do I have to chargesales tax?
There's a lot of weird thingsout there.

SPEAKER_01 (53:31):
There's a lot of life.
Yeah, just go look at the taxcode if you want to see.
Don't don't start that's don'tget me started.
No hard.
I mean I I well, and regulationand you know, all that stuff.
I mean, there's well, anyway,that that that that gets across.

(53:52):
Well, I think we've wandered allover the place here, Ron.

SPEAKER_00 (53:55):
Let me let me give you one last tidbit and then
let's close this up.
The job postings right now inthe United States, a little over
four percent of them mention ourartificial intelligence.
With all the hubbub and mediaand everything else you hear
about artificial intelligence,everybody I mentioned that

(54:17):
statistic to was publishedyesterday, is shocked.

SPEAKER_01 (54:21):
Are you I'm not at all, I'm surprised it's that
low.
I I actually think let me giveyou an analogy.
Go back 1985, and somebody asksyou, do you know Microsoft or do

(54:44):
you know Apple?
And you know, right now, if youdon't know how to use a PC,
you're a freaking dinosaur.
And and you know, I I go back touh you know when the first you
know intelligent phones came outand um the ability to use

(55:08):
Salesforce, for example, to toto be a deal.
I mean, there's there's justsome technologies that are going
to become part of ourinfrastructure and our work
tools.
And and I think AI is still youknow, I'm spending a lot of time

(55:32):
in the AI space just trying toreally understand the impact on
early childhood learning and howdo you get a child to learn
rather than learn how to use AIto get an answer?
And and there's a huge challengein my mind, and that I'm working
with some of the inner cityschools and they're out of
school time programs.

(55:53):
And how do you, you know, I Iwant to teach you how to use a
ruler before you use anelectronic tool to measure.
I want you to know what an inchis, what a foot is, what a yard
is, a cubic foot.
I have no trouble if you use thedevice to go, but I want you to
understand the logic and back ofit.
And and I could give you that inmultiple disciplines.

(56:16):
And I think AI is going tobecome or is becoming um the
tool.
You know, um, I I I I I'm notshocked at that at all.
The question is, I now the nextquestion I'd ask is, well, what
do you mean by AI?

SPEAKER_00 (56:34):
Yeah, it's well that's what they just put it in
perfunctually to make itattractive.
And and it's much I'm surprisedit's that high, to be honest.
Really?
Yeah, so here let me let me giveyou this.
1988, my standard or 1888,excuse me.
The electric engine replaced thesteam engine.

(56:55):
It was cheaper, everybody didit.
Nobody changed the process,method, procedure, anything for
20 years.
There's a book called The FifthDiscipline, Peter Senge.
It takes a while for uh society,people to adapt to new
technologies.
You mentioned the computer, youmentioned the phone.

(57:16):
I was trained, I had computerscience as a minor, so I wired
unit record equipment.
I am a dinosaur.

SPEAKER_01 (57:23):
So in punch cards for coding.

SPEAKER_00 (57:26):
So yeah, same, same, same here.
So 1950, here comes thecomputer, and I'll go every 10
years, we can come up with amajor disruptive change.
1950 computer, 1960 database,1970 internet, all the way
along.
And the further we go, thefurther behind everybody gets

(57:46):
because nobody's keeping up.
I can't keep up.
I ran software companies, Istopped trying to keep up.

SPEAKER_01 (57:52):
Well, but it but you know, look, you know, Moore's
law, right?
Yep.
Four times the power at fourtimes less price, and apparently
55 times electricity and heat.
It's uh, you know, what I'm I'mwaiting for all these guys
building data centers andelectrical grid, and then
somebody's gonna come out with alow-powered chip, and and the

(58:14):
model's gonna just change.

SPEAKER_02 (58:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:17):
Um you can put that in the file.
I'm telling you, that's coming.

SPEAKER_00 (58:21):
Oh, I agree.
But here's another one that 50%of the electricity that's
generated at the source is lostby the time it gets to the place
that it's consumed.
And nobody is looking at how wetransmit electricity better.
Well, and and part of that,yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:39):
And and and in there lies the logic for solar wind
and you know, short, short gridreach.
But it's um no, that that to meis is is going to be uh, you
know, the speed of that changeand and how it gets used.
And you know, I I want to I wantto be the judge in court when he

(59:01):
gets a brief that's done by AI.
And and um, you know, there'sthere's some cases where AI is,
you know, kind of killed thelawyer because it was wrong.
But you know, think about theindustries, you know, what's
gonna happen in the legalindustry when paralegals can do
in a minute what used to be ahundred hours.

SPEAKER_00 (59:22):
I'm sitting with my doctor the other day, and I'm
talking about the fact that Ican't sleep well.
He said your brain needs to havea rest at night, too.
So don't be upset about that.
It comes back just like yourbody.
And we started talking about AI.
He said, What's problematicabout that is a lot of creative
people, musicians, wake up inthe middle of the night with

(59:42):
music, they get up and they gowrite it up, and that becomes a
hit song.
How's AI gonna work with that?
So there's all kinds oframifications to this silly
question, isn't it though?
And that is a really yeah, andeverything.
So we better stop now because wecan keep going forever.

(01:00:02):
And you know, I I I don't wantto say this to you, but it's at
now, it's uh 10 o'clock in themorning and it's 78 degrees.
I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:11):
Yeah, well, it's uh 302 and it's 54.
I love you, man.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:17):
And I'm and I'm closer to the equator than you
are.
Isn't that the truth?
Isn't that the truth?
That's that's a shocking.
I wonder what it's like in theCaribbean.
Did it get down that far?
I you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:29):
I've been um I again, we've we've just been
kind of catching up on a lot ofstuff this week.
Well, look, I don't know who'sgoing to benefit from this uh
deal, but I I I gotta tell you,I have.
I always enjoy matching noteswith you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:43):
Well, one of the things that I try and do with
all of these is provoke peopleto think.
And we're we're getting a lot ofhits, so I think some of it is
resonating.
Our podcasts are a little longerthan most.
Thank you for that.
But it's the quality of thepeople that are in the
conversation.
I just asked the questions.
No, Ron, it's it's the hairlineand the beards.

(01:01:08):
On that, I'm going to say thankyou, Mahalo, my friend, and
thank you to everybody who'slistening today.
And we look forward to you beingwith us at the next
conversation.
Mahalo.
Thank you, David.