December 4, 2025 • 65 mins
In this episode, Jesse hosts Bryce Harem, founder of BTG Services and creator of the Middleman Mindset, as they discuss the essence of true leadership, personal struggles, and the ways to effectively bridge the gap between office and field in the blue-collar industry. Jesse and Bryce explore the importance of self-leadership, authenticity, and communication, while also touching upon their personal experiences and the profound lessons they've learned along the way. Bryce shares how journaling, gratitude, and the ability to navigate pressure are key to becoming an effective middleman and leader.
00:00 Introduction to Leadership and the Bridge Concept
00:21 Welcoming Mr. Bryce Harem
01:49 The Middleman Mindset and Personal Struggles
05:37 The Importance of Self-Leadership
14:58 Confabulation and Assumptions
21:43 The Power of Vulnerability
29:16 The Role of the Middleman in Leadership
32:32 Building Bridges in Leadership
33:21 The Middleman Mindset
38:13 Authenticity and Leadership
46:05 Gratitude and Personal Growth
50:37 The Middleman Mindset Academy
54:19 Effective Communication in Leadership
01:00:14 The Promise of Being the Bridge
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Needed rather than trying to get to the other side
of the bridge, I needed tobecome the bridge.
That's the goal of leadership.
My goal is to provide theunderstanding to empower those
to cross over to the other sideand help them become better than
me.
That's the goal of a leader.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
What is going on, LM family?
Back again.
And this time I got somebodythat kind of has a heart for the
same kind of stuff I have aheart for, which is blue-collar
people, right?
Folks out there that put theirhands on tools and build and
maintain the things that we do.
He is the creator of themiddleman mindset, which of
(00:42):
course we're going to get into.
And he's helping blue collarleaders lead themselves first,
which I absolutely love.
His name is Mr.
Bryce Harram.
He's the founder and owner ofBTG Services, and we're about to
get to know about all of thatstuff.
But before that, and if this isyour first time here, you are
(01:02):
listening to the Learnings andMissteps podcast, where you get
to see super awesome people justlike you sharing their gifts and
talents to leave this worldbetter than they found it.
I am Jesse, your selfishservant, and we're about to get
to know Mr.
Bryce.
Mr.
Bryce, how you doing, brother?
(01:22):
I'm good, brother.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
And I agree, I agree.
Jesse is the man.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
He's the man.
You're you know what?
You're my favorite guest ever.
How's that?
Like I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
I'm gonna go back and watch every episode, make
sure you haven't said thatbefore.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Well, it might be some editing that has to take
place between now and then, butyeah, man.
Oh man, I'm glad to have you onhere.
And so yeah, man.
I like to start with a simplekind of teaser question.
And so we'll start with thesoftball question.
Why does someone have to learnto lead themselves first?
(01:59):
Oh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
I don't know if that's a softball question.
That's a deep question, man.
Let's I'm gonna I'm gonna startwith why I decided to lead
myself first and how I figuredthat out.
And it really came down to I'm amiddleman.
Uh I look at the middleman assomebody who answers to
(02:23):
expectations from above, but isalso trying to lead what I call
as the bridge.
You are you are the one who istrying to lead people below you,
above you, and next to you.
You're dealing with it from allsides.
And if you're not careful, thosepressures, those challenges eat
(02:43):
you up.
And for me, they did that.
Yeah, they did that 100%.
And it happened at a time,honestly, and we can go as deep
as you want into it, but in atime that was the most financial
success I had had and the teamhad.
We yeah, I had everything onpaper looked great, but I was
(03:09):
drowning, and the only way Iknew how to solve the problem
was to drink the pain away.
And I just started, I mean, it'sso common in this industry
because it's it's such a norm.
I just I would come home and Iwould drink to forget, and I'd
wake up and I'd do it again.
And yes, it was easy to justifyit because everybody does it.
(03:32):
And I in a time when everybodywas things were going well and
the team wanted to run it backand everything was smooth at the
end of the season, I was readyto walk away and told the team I
was done.
And I just if that was the wayit was gonna be, if that was the
way it was as the boss or theleader of that team, I said, I
(03:56):
want no part of it.
I just yeah, I don't like theperson I'm becoming if that's
the case.
And I took the weekend, I tookthe weekend to think about it,
and I started what I now call myY journal today.
And it's where I dive intorather than deal with anxieties
or stresses through drinking orwhatever the case may be, I was
(04:17):
also nicotine was also extremelybad for me.
Um and I started going intojournaling and the Y journal
specifically to dive into theroot cause of the problem to get
where I needed to go.
And when I got down to thatweekend, I started my Y journal
as the first time I ever startedit, and I wrote, Why do you love
(04:39):
the industry?
And it came down to the people.
I know you and I have agreed onthis before.
It is the people, and I've saidit before, I'm gonna keep saying
it.
We are dysfunctional in theabsolute best way possible.
Now I was just speaking withsome of a friend this morning,
(05:00):
and we were talking about it.
How I personally, I might bebiased because this is my
industry, but I don't know ofanother industry that you get
such a wide spread demographicof people, yeah, from office to
field and everything in betweenbackgrounds, second chances,
(05:20):
third chances.
Heck, we even got fourthchances, fifth chances, whatever
it is.
But it all comes togethersomehow.
We have to all come together tomake it work.
Yeah, and it makes for some fun.
Absolutely.
So I decided to stay.
I told myself I need to stay,I'm here for the people.
(05:42):
I gotta stay, I gotta be here.
But I need to find a way tohandle this, to make this what I
call the foundation up here.
And so I went back to thedrawing board, and it's where I
think a lot of leadershiptraining honestly fails these
days, is we if you get luckyenough to be taught how to
(06:03):
delegate, how to train, how toset expectations, and all those
things, which are widespread farin between in general.
But if you're lucky enough,well, what happens when pardon
my French but shit hits the fan?
Yeah, because it will.
And if you don't have the thingsto fall back on, the the habits,
(06:24):
the whatever it is, theawareness, the reflection, those
things to fall back on, it'sgonna tear you apart.
And so in the middleman mindset,we start with lead yourself
first, because you're going toface the pressures, you're gonna
face the anxieties, thestresses, the challenges.
So we build from the foundationup, which is up here, going
(06:48):
through how to reflect, how toget awareness, how to build the
identity of what you want, andthen the ongoing habits to
actually structure that andteams and time management.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Oh, I love it.
I get, and I'm sure you get thisquestion a lot like, I want to
be in leadership.
What do I need to do to be aleader?
And my answer, it I'm superbasic.
It's two things.
Number one, you have to have adirection.
Because if you don't have yourown direction, you ain't leading
(07:18):
nobody nowhere.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, period.
And I give some flexibility,like, even if it's a dumb
direction, at least you have adirection.
And as well as I do, thatfreaking direction is gonna
change a million times over theyears.
So just have a direction, right?
The second thing I say is yougotta have followers, right?
(07:40):
If you don't have a directionand nobody's following you,
you're not leading.
And it's so, which I thinkconnects nicely to what you're
saying.
Like, you gotta lead yourselffirst.
Now, you mentioned a few things: journaling, self-awareness, time (07:51):
undefined
management.
Yeah, why are those things?
What's the value of thosethings?
Why do you think we miss those?
Like you know, and you alreadyknow I'm guilty of this too.
I got promoted like crazy, andthose things I had not, I didn't
(08:13):
have that skill set until laterin life.
So, why do you think it doesn'tcome naturally to us?
And how much does thatcontribute to like your
situation where you get to apoint where it's like forget all
of this, it ain't worth it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Yeah, man.
I think it's because honestly,it's humbling that you yeah, I
mean, you think you have to beyou have to drop the ego to go
and ask somebody for help.
Well, you really gotta drop theego to dive into why am I
failing?
Really understand where it'scoming from.
When I went through it, I cameback and I talked to the team
(08:47):
and said, I need to change theentire way I lead.
And it's gonna start withmyself, and that sounds odd
because a lot of people say, Oh,not gonna the first thing we do
is cut out the time forourselves.
Typically, I have three domainsI put everything in, and this is
(09:08):
part of that process of self,relationships, and work.
Those are the three domains, andI work inside all of those with
the time management blockingthat I do.
And the first one we always cutout, we make time for the
relationships, or we make timefor work, but then what are we
sacrificing?
And people will say, Well, it'sI feel selfish if I'm working
(09:29):
out or I'm meditating or readinga book or journaling and doing
those things.
And it's it is the most selflessthing you can do.
Yes, because if you truly wantto show up for your family, for
your team, for your friends,relationships, whoever it is,
you need that in order to showup with the best possible form
you can, yeah.
(09:50):
And I think that's for me,awareness is the boilerplate of
all of it.
I went six months justrelentless reflection and
awareness and really digginginto okay, why am I insecure
about this?
Why do I have thesecharacteristics?
Why is my default character thisway?
Does it stem from some traumaticevent, or is it just who I am?
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
I want to do the LM family member shout-out.
And this one goes out to Mr.
Jeff Riley.
Mr.
Jeff, I appreciate you.
He left me a Google reviewbecause now I'm like official.
I have a Google page where youcan leave reviews.
Anyways, he says, This was agreat experience.
It really gave me a roadmap onhow to effectively improve work
(10:35):
in the field.
This was all taught with passionand enthusiasm that made an
eight-hour day go by fast.
Jesse is the man.
And which Jesse?
This Jesse right here.
That's who he's talking about.
And Mr.
Jeff went through a full-dayworkshop of sweat equity
improvement.
And so, Jeff, thank you, bro,for taking the time to leave
(10:55):
that.
And for the rest of you outthere, y'all already know I love
me some attention.
And when you do take the time toleave me a review, give me a
shout-out, or comment on some ofthe posts, it gives me an
opportunity to shout you out inthe future.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
And so I kind of went all the way back into
finding that out.
And I'm a controversial opinionthat we are not able to change
our default character.
I believe what you have as yourdefault character is your
default character.
However, you can pick thedirection you want to go and you
can change the course once youbecome aware of it.
(11:34):
If you now I've got a voice inmy head that says, Okay, well,
this is my instinctive reactionof to be this way.
And but who I want to be andwhere I want to go, that voice
says, Oh no, take a minute,you're going this way, and
that's what awareness does foryou.
SPEAKER_00 (12:40):
Oh, I love it.
Have you ever read the bookMan's Search for Meaning?
I have not, dude.
I'm gonna add it to my list.
It's it transformed my life, andthere was one quote specifically
that it totally changed.
I was in the middle of myaddiction, I wasn't in rehab
yet, but it helped me on mypath, anyways.
(13:02):
There's a quote, so it's writtenby Victor Franco, who's a
Holocaust survivor.
Freaking, I mean, this book hasgot real heavy shit in it, so be
ready.
But the quote was this, and whatyou just said kind of stirred it
up in my head.
And within that space lies ourpower to choose, and then it
(13:25):
goes on to say, and when weexercise that power, we can make
that space bigger.
Of course, I'm not quoting it,but this is the justified
version of what the message was.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
You just gave me goosebumps, man.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Dude, right.
I mean, it's in like when I wasreading it, this is coming from
a dude that like survived thesecamps when everybody around him
was dying, and it was a like itwas there was no hope.
And so it was, I mean, and hemade it through, but that his
mindset was what helped him.
And I remember like thinking,man, at this point in my life, I
(14:03):
was drinking because ofeverybody, it was their fault.
The guys pissed me off at work,the GC pissed me off, my ex
pissed, like it was everybodyelse's fault.
I honestly functioned as if Ididn't have a choice because my
default, like you pointed out,my default was to numb myself
with alcohol and anything else,really, back then.
(14:25):
And then I was like, wait aminute, it's not their fault.
I'm just not choosing, it justtotally freaking rocked my
world.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
You just, I mean, once you're capable of realizing
that almost everything is achoice, yeah, brother.
Yeah, one of that is one of themost freeing things you want to
do, and you'll notice a lot ofpeople when you lack that
awareness, when you lack thatchoice, that this decisiveness
of being able to say, Okay,whoa, that's where you get into
(14:59):
what I call the personalitiesthat burn the bridge.
When you get into the victim,the even the micromanagers, the
confabulators, all these things,if you have awareness, you can
pull yourself back out.
Yes, but when you don't, that'syou just you sit in that lane,
and it's no surprise we arefucking stubborn as hell.
(15:20):
Yes, and you're not gonna changethat opinion.
Yeah, but the moment youactually say, Okay, whoa, this
isn't this doesn't feel right,or I don't like the way this is
going, I want to change who I amor who I can become.
Now you can make choices, andthat's one of the most freeing
(15:41):
decisions you can do.
SPEAKER_00 (15:42):
Oh, 10 four man.
Okay, you said a word that Inever heard before
confabulators.
Yes, that tell me.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
This came from I I first heard it from Miss Brene
Brown.
Uh she's uh Dared Lead, she'swrote multiple books, but Dared
Lead was the main first one Iread from her.
And she talks aboutconfabulations and
confabulators.
Okay, and it is one of my 10personalities that burn the
bridge.
Don't ask me to remember torecite them all because I can't
remember, remember them off thetop of my head.
(16:12):
But the confabulator is one ofthe most dangerous ones,
honestly, because it is we allhave a narrative we tell
ourselves, right?
We all have something, a storythat we shape in our own mind.
And when you're doing that, theproblem is that can be negative
or that can be positive, andthat's where that awareness
comes in.
(16:32):
But when you take a partialtruth, so you take like a 75,
let's just say 75% truth, andyou mix that with what you
assume or believe to be true.
The problem is you have a basisof okay, this is right, but you
have a narrative you shaped ifyou're if you have a negative
(16:55):
narrative about the situation ingeneral, then you are going to
form the conclusion for that.
So without the evidence, youcreate what the problem is, and
you create that in your head.
And one of the biggest problemsabout it is it's very hard to
detect because you people trulybelieve it.
You're not lying because youbelieve it to be true, but it's
(17:17):
also very believable.
And so if you are a person ofinfluence on the team, let's say
a foreman or superintendent or aproject manager or worse owner,
CEO, whatever it is, you havepeople following you, and you
are making an impact, you'reinfluencing them all the time.
If you carry that narrative, nowthey buy into it.
(17:38):
Yeah, and pretty soon you have awhole team that spreads
negativity that spreads likewildfire.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Yes, okay, got it.
So confabulation is partialtruth, justification of
something, and findingreinforcing data to say this is
true, this is because there issome truth, yes, but it's not
all entirely true, and then itkind of becomes my scapegoat to
(18:04):
hide behind and say, well,because XYZ.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
And the only way I have found to truly break it
down, if you're trying todiscover, okay, is this if
something feels off and you'relike, Well, is this person is
this a confabulation, forinstance?
If you ask enough questions andyou come into it with a I would
say lead with curiosity and youstart asking, you will notice
that there's no evidence,there's no documentation to back
(18:30):
it up.
Yes, and so then it's like awell, it's obvious.
Well, it's not obvious.
Where do we find out?
Is the company is the companystealing from us?
Well, oh yeah, I'll beobviously.
Oh, cool.
Show me where they're stealing.
Well, I mean I just know it.
Okay.
So you get into that part of it,yeah, yeah, and that's when you
can start to tell.
And so if you can train peopleand teach people how to ask
(18:53):
those questions to figure thatout, and especially the the
young, influenceable, is that aword?
Influenceable people, um, thepeople who you know are getting
influenced to question you knowthat back a little bit, then
they'll start to understand andthey'll start to see it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:10):
Love it.
So I have a cheat code that Iwant to run by you, see what you
think.
It's specifically aroundchallenging and testing our
assumptions.
Because I believe like themajority of the frustrations and
irritations that I experiencecome from uncommunicated
expectations and unsecuredcommitments, period.
(19:32):
Now that happens because ofassumptions, right?
Now, amen.
Amen.
But here's the cheat code forme, the flag that I pay
attention to to say, oh, I thinkI'm confabulating.
That's a new word.
I'm gonna abuse the hell out ofit.
It's a new word for me, anyways.
When I say should, they shouldhave known that shouldn't have
(19:55):
happened.
Anytime I say the word should,I'll like, I got assumptions in
(20:47):
there somewhere, clearly,because I had an expectation
that they would deliversomething in some time frame,
and they didn't.
And I can't articulate I wasexpecting that I'm expecting
that to be in my hands by 6 p.m.
today.
I'll say, yeah, they should havedid it like sometime, like they
(21:09):
should be sending, they shouldknow that I needed it.
And damn it, there's anassumption, there's an
uncommunicated expectation andan unsecured commitment.
So the cheat code is you when Iuse the word should, that's the
flag to say, hey, dummy, youneed to check yourself.
What do you think about that?
That is fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
I honestly don't know.
I mean, I agree with you.
I would be as bold to say thatI'm a big believer in not using
absolutes, I don't really liketo use all, never, can't, all
those things, but 99% of theproblems we face in this
industry, especially the fieldversus office dynamic, if you're
(21:49):
trying to bridge that is basedon assumptions.
That if the reason that peoplehate or are unwilling to have
the extreme uncomfortableconversations we have is because
there was no expectation set,which makes the feedback chain
so much harder.
(22:09):
And that I agree with you, andit's the same kind of thing.
I even find it with my kids.
That's like a hey, go clean yourroom.
Well, an hour later, I'm pissedoff because he didn't clean his
room when it's well,technically, he has until he's
18 and moves out to clean it outnow, because I never gave him a
deadline.
I never you know whatever setthat expectation, and it it
(22:30):
happens all the time inminuscule ways and large ways,
but really it's the small ones,it's not the big problem, it's
not the big assumption, it's thesmall assumptions that just
stack up and compound over time,and nobody talks about them.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
No, it we just let them build and build and
confabulate, right?
Because it reinforces myposition, it um helps me feel
good that everybody else iswrong, it can't be me.
Now, you mentioned Brene Brown,and I've read her books, I've
read a few of her books, but I'mcurious what why did you decide?
Because most people are gonnasay that's a woman thing, right?
(23:08):
Like all the stuff that shedoes, and it's powerful stuff.
But what was it that motivatedyou to consume her content?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
So I had in when I went through what I call I kind
of call my mental struggle,mental breakdown, really.
Uh yeah, that was in 2023, sonot that long ago.
It was I hadn't read a book in10 years, over 10 years,
probably.
And I almost thought it was likethe cool thing to do to not
(23:39):
read.
It's it's like go talk aboutthat now.
But I it's as as ironic andcrazy as it is, I went from
extreme ownership to dare tolead.
Right.
So I mean, talk about polaropposite.
And what had happened is I waseven though I'm I'm a
(24:01):
millennial, I'm 37 years old, Iwas raised old school
construction.
Yep.
That emotions are no, it just novulnerability that's worse than
dropping the f bomb anywhere.
You ain't doing that.
You can forget, oh, you'rehaving it, you're having a bad
mental health day.
Cool, work harder and work itoff.
(24:23):
Then when I realized in so 22,my first year as general
manager, I failed completelyterribly.
And we can get into that one tooif you want, but I failed.
And that led me into saying,okay, my whole goal of chasing
the title was wrong.
(24:45):
Rather than trying to get to theother side of the bridge, I
needed to become the bridge.
That's the goal of leadership.
My goal is to provide theunderstanding to empower those
to cross over to the other sideand help them become better than
me.
That's the goal of a leader.
unknown (25:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
That's the goal of being the bridge.
That's what I think is themiddleman.
And so when I came out of that,and then I dove into 23, where
we had success as a company whenwe turned it around, but
mentally I didn't know how tohandle the pressure that I had
put on myself for it.
Then I came out of that andsaid, All right, now I'm set,
(25:25):
I've got my mindset right.
I've realized that what I didknow isn't necessarily the, I
don't believe is the best way tolead because it's not me.
I was trying to be something Iwasn't.
And I went with I started, ofcourse, with extreme ownership.
That was the book at the time.
It was just, hey, you read thatas booked.
Go and it's fantastic.
(25:46):
And I said, okay, that's I mean,this is fantastic.
Everything on here I agree with,I'm locked in, I'm ready to go.
I love it, I absolutely love it.
What is something nobody wouldexpect me to read next?
Oh, and what is something Iwould never expect myself to
read next?
Okay, it's a challenge, yes, andit went into uh Brene Brown, the
(26:10):
Queen of Vulnerability, man.
I mean, yes, she is, and it issuch I mean, just talk about
office versus field separationdone, it is such a polar
opposite book.
Yep, but at the same time, I cantie them together.
You can actually start to tiethem together when you break
(26:30):
into how Jocko and Leif gothrough their stuff.
Well, they don't say it thatsame way, right?
Same thing.
Um and I just I mean, I readthat one, and honestly, that's
one of if not, it's probably oneof my top five that I recommend
to people, especially if you area hard ass, tough ass, no
bullshit leader, and you thinkthat it doesn't exist.
(26:52):
I say, okay, cool, read this,and then come tell me how much
armor you're wearing when you'redone.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah, man.
Good.
I and that one, I think you'rethe first person I heard that
says, I read it because I wantedto read something that I would
never read.
Because it it's all aboutvulnerability and shame and the
origins of it and how itmanifests itself.
And I'm like you, I'm readingthat book.
I'm like, was this woman she'dbeen stalking me?
Like she's writing about mehere.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
70 70.
I think I looked it up.
78% of the mental struggles, themindset struggles we have in
this industry are involved arearound shame.
And because we are we are aheavily male-dominated industry,
you tie in not just the stigmaof being a man in construction,
(27:39):
but also if you're a husband, ifyou're a father, it is the shame
of not being able to provide.
Am I good enough?
I'm working 14 hours over here,but I'm missing the ball game
over here, I'm missing this.
The shame just destroys it.
And the way she goes about thatbook, very softly, very
respectfully.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
Yeah, totally.
No, it's trans.
So, folks, LM family out there,if you are struggling with like
the weight of the way I thinkabout it is maybe the best way
to describe it, before I readthat book, I was blind to how
much effort and energy I wasputting into living up to these
(28:22):
expectations that wereconfabulated, right?
Like I said to myself, my bossexpects this, my girlfriend
expects this, my family expectsthis, and I gotta do that, I
gotta fulfill that.
And it was all make-believe.
I made it up in my head.
None of them, you know what theywere asking for me.
My boss was telling me, Jesse,you need to take time off
because you're burning it up.
(28:42):
My exes were telling me, Jesse,I wish you would just kind of
relax and spend more time withme.
My mom was saying, I wish youwould visit me.
Nobody was saying that I neededto get the big new sexy project
and beat the budget by 20% andhave all that was all in my
head.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
You were telling yourself what you should do.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
You got it.
You got it, you nailed it, bro.
And then I when I read thatbook, my motivation was somebody
told me, Jesse, you are theabsolute least vulnerable human
being I've ever met.
And I said, No, I'm not.
And then I read the book, like,okay, maybe she was right
because I didn't reallyunderstand.
I was like, Vulnerable, that's aweakness.
(29:22):
Why would you be vulnerable?
That's not smart, that's justnot strategic, right?
Anyways, on the back end of it,took off helped me continue or
down the path to remove thearmor and really just show up as
I'm intended to be, which is somuch more fun.
Now, so extreme ownership, lovethe book, amazing content, and
(29:44):
again, that's another one ofthose keys of when I own
everything, when I takeownership of my part, right?
Because every success and everyfailure that we have contributed
to it, carrying.
I'm not saying it's our fault orlike you contributed to some
degree.
We have a role to play, there'sa role to play in it.
(30:06):
That's it, and taking ownershipfor that part gives us the power
back to Victor Frankel, right?
Gives us the power to change thedirection or make the different
set of choices that we need tomake to get to where we want to
be when we own our part in it,not saying it's all our fault
and nobody else, like no, justown your part.
(30:29):
I have a buddy, Sean Moran.
He's like, Jess, he he coachespeople too, like his full-time
job.
And um, he's like, I'm trying tohelp my team understand that at
the very least, every problemyou're experiencing, you're at
least one percent of theproblem.
And I'm like, Amen, man.
But some of them even fight thatlike, yeah, no, it's it's a
journey, people have to getthere.
(30:50):
So you mentioned a couple oftimes this thing between the
field and the office, yeah.
And there's some alliteration orsome analogies in there about
the middleman mindset, thebridge.
What uh what's going on there?
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
So, I mean, everybody, everybody by now has
heard everybody there, it is,but the absolutes, I ask I
assume majority of people haveheard the phrase bridge the gap.
People take it in a wide arrayof reasons, wide range of
reasons or beliefs on what thattruly means.
But in in my opinion, theperson, the the person who
(31:25):
bridges the gap is the one whotakes the time to understand
both sides.
It's all about personality.
perspectives.
It's all about it's not okay,you got side A and you got side
B.
It's I'm the one who brings bothof them together.
So the part of being themiddleman is you have to have a
(31:50):
desire for everybody to win.
Everybody wins.
It doesn't matter if you don'tlike the person, everybody wins.
And if you can carry that in,that's where I say okay, the
middleman, which I would referto as the foreign
superintendents, the operationsmanagers, construction managers,
(32:12):
project managers, estimators.
These people who are obviously apart of the team, they're not
upper senior management or CEOs,owners.
They answer to those people.
But in my opinion, the middlemanhas the opportunity to have more
(32:34):
influence than anybody else onthe team.
And they are the ones who who'sthe first one to get the phone
call when all shit hits the fanand all chaos goes.
The middleman who's the one whospeaks and negotiates and talks
to the customer on a dailyweekly basis?
The middleman.
Who's the one who's around theteam 95% of the time.
(32:58):
The middleman.
Yeah.
It's once you the owner, theCEO, it's their job to support
the team and give them thethings they need to excel and
empower them to perform to theirabilities but it's the middleman
who drives it home.
Yeah.
And honestly they it's you sayit's like the middle child
(33:22):
they're the ones who also getneglected.
They're the ones that say okayyou're the best operator.
Fantastic.
We're going to promote you toforeman.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
What do I got to do?
Oh you just all you got to do isyou're going to lead this team
of five to ten guys.
Not a big deal.
Here's the expectations maybe ifyou're lucky you get those and
by the way you're responsiblefor everything on the job and
it's going to be a lot of work.
You're still going to have tooperate but we're going to go
ahead and make sure you trainmake sure you delegate and let
(33:57):
us know if you need anything.
Communications at two way streetgot it and then they wonder why
he quits in three months.
Oh yeah but the person or thepeople who are willing to say
okay I'm let's take a field forinstance I'm the superintendent
and you say the office should bedoing this.
(34:19):
They should do that they shoulddo that.
I'm using that because youbrought up that word and I loved
it.
They should do these things ifyou are saying that over and you
have the awareness you say okayI'm missing something.
Yes.
So now I'm going to go spendtime on this side of the bridge
and I'm going to figure out thatperspective.
Yep.
And I'm going to walk my assback across and I'm going to
(34:42):
help my team understand in a waythat relates to them and their
one.
And now you're building thatbridge.
It's us and them not us versusthem.
SPEAKER_00 (34:52):
Yeah yeah okay so what I'm hearing is that the
middleman mindset is thefacilitator the translator the
connector and the empower you'rethe one who I mean it is your
job to if I mean if you chooseto do it it it is your job to
make sure that you are takinghowever many people are around
(35:15):
you say it's five people my goalis that those five people in
whatever timeline I deem correctare better than me at my job.
SPEAKER_01 (35:25):
Yeah in the direction of where they want to
go and you mentioned somethingearlier about when people say I
want to be a leader.
You need those things.
Tell me about that tell me whattell me why what is and I'm very
curious of what is it?
And a lot of times when theydon't really know they say I
want to be I want to be the bossI want to be in control.
(35:46):
It's an ego thing or it's money.
Oh well the the foreman makes 50bucks an hour 45 bucks an hour
or whatever it is and I'msitting here making 2530 I want
to make 45 bucks an hour.
I said I get it I get it thisisn't for you.
Right.
Right why not if that is yourmotivation alone you're not
(36:10):
going to make it because moneydoesn't last in the long run.
Money can be a part of it.
Everybody should want to makemake more and gain and I'm a
full advocate of that you shouldwant to better yourself and
better your life and yourcircumstances but if you are
tying it solely to money orwanting the power like I did
(36:32):
when I chased the title you'regoing to fail.
You're going to fail and it'snot going to stick yeah you'll
lose yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
I mean I'm in there you and I sim very similar
stories chase like those thingsare so this is not gonna this
week like counterintuitive for alot of folks it's so easy to get
the raise and get the promotionbut it doesn't fill that void of
fulfillment and and that sort ofthing so so yeah man if it's
(37:04):
just about money in a title likeit ain't worth it.
Not only will you fail it ain'tlike that title and the money
you think you're going to getthat's going to change your life
it ain't it and the amount ofwork the and maybe more
accurately the amount of failurethat you're going to experience
jumping up that level if youdon't have a real deep
(37:27):
meaningful reason for it it'llbreak you.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
It am I wrong the I guess my one sentence pitch of
the middleman is the onenavigating expectations from
above while trying to leadothers below across and above as
the bridge that's the middlemanand if you're going to do that
(37:50):
now I say it all that I say itquite often that owners and CEOs
are up here.
Owners can do that too but yeahcompanies you have companies
where the owner is in the mix onthe day-to-day basis and you may
be the middleman you may be thatbridge while you're building and
while you're developing that'sit's absolutely opportunity
there but the one thing it takesis besides what I said
(38:16):
everybody's got to win is youhave to care more than everybody
else and people have always toldme don't take it personal fuck
that it is personal it ispersonal.
Now I'm not saying go cry aboutit if somebody teases you or
hazes you or it's all up in yourCheerios.
(38:39):
That's fine.
That's that's just that's partof being a family that's part of
be that's just part of what wedo.
Right.
Right it is absolutely personal.
If I lose somebody from the teamthat I love and care about
that's personal.
If I let them down that'spersonal the reason when if some
if you're lying there and I hopethere's somebody listening to
(39:00):
this one you say if you're lyingin bed and you're laying at the
ceiling wondering why or you'reashamed or you're thinking about
the 10 people you just had tolet go good because it's it is
personal and you need that toreally bring it home in my
opinion.
SPEAKER_00 (39:20):
Oh I agree.
I mean I've done my share ofterminations and even the ones
that I was waiting for the dayto terminate them it still
didn't it still bugs me becauseI am I impacted that man's life
the life of his family his kidsif they had kids if he had a
wife it is not a small thing.
(39:40):
If it doesn't stay with youthere's something there's some
introspection to be had so youstarted the BTG movement right
and well of the middlemanmindset because it absolutely is
a mindset that's coming throughloud and clear not like a title
you're the middleman butmiddleman mindset being the
connector the bridge so but whathave you learned about yourself
(40:03):
since launching BTG okay maybethe first one was a softball
question.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
They're getting deeper now I have learned
probably more than anything thatwhen it comes to being a leader
and truly wanting to make animpact the number one thing we
can strive for is beingauthentic.
Okay.
And it becomes I spent yearsyoung growing up with a fear of
(40:35):
what others thought of me and itdictated I mean I could I would
be what you call a chameleon.
I never I wasn't the jock Iwasn't the popular kid I wasn't
all these things but I could gointo any group and adapt.
And I did it to make people likeme and what happens is you start
to be nice and you startfocusing on being nice instead
(40:56):
of being kind and there's a bigand when I dove into this
process it was okay well if I'mgoing to lead in this way if I'm
going to do these things and ifI truly want to make an impact
for people who am I if I'm notgoing to be me I'm the class
clown.
I like it I like to be me I liketo be weird I like to walk
(41:18):
around Hawaiian shirts I like todo those things.
Yeah to hell if people laugh andif anything laughing at the
expense of me as the boss that'sa win that brings the team
closer together.
Right.
So but I think that's that's oneof the main ones authenticity
really that that sells that hitshome that's what people I mean
(41:40):
that's what gets people rightthere is for better or worse
whether or not you agree withsomebody you respect somebody
who is authentically there.
Yep and the other one is trulyfinding out what your values are
going into BTG and doing thesethings I told myself okay if I'm
going to dive into who is Brycewho am I what are the people I
(42:02):
want the type of people I wantto work with I've had to say no.
I've had to say no I'm I gotoffered an opportunity to speak
share more of the middlemanmindset and honestly it was to
students a while back a year agoand they asked me to leave out
the part where the industry ischallenging and mentally it can
(42:23):
break you and I said I can't dothat.
I can't leave that right theydidn't they were scared it would
push these kids away from theindustry.
And I said what's better thatthey find out now and they get
the and I can provide them thetools to handle it or they find
out two years from now when theyenter the program as a project
(42:45):
manager or an estimator or afield engineer field whatever it
is and they find out the hardway and they burn out and you
lose them in a year becausethat's what happens.
Yep.
And I think that's been thatcomes down to the authentic part
is if awareness of truly knowingwho you are what you want to be
and what the goals are you startto see that very clearly of no
(43:08):
that these are people you knowin my path that I want to be
associated with.
These are the people I want towork with.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Yeah man awesome so getting clear on your values and
learning to embrace authenticityall of a sudden authenticity is
like the high the fancy wordright everybody's talking about
it and I got somebody asked melike well what do you what does
authenticity mean to you JessI'm like look for me it's just
(43:34):
sharing the dirty details like Idon't invest any energy
polishing shit like it's thetruth it's stinky it's ugly it's
great it's awesome it's justwhat it is like I'm not gonna
hide anything I'm not gonnaoverproduce anything like it's
just telling the truth and alsolike you said embracing myself
(43:58):
there are things that I like towear I'm a Hawaiian shirt guy I
like this sort of thing and it'sjust wear that I don't need to
be up have the putton polobutton up because there was a
period in in my career where Ilike oh no I gotta look the part
yeah even though like I wasn't Imean I was living but I felt
(44:19):
like I was living in somebodyelse's skin and that was
suffocating right like it justand the interesting thing is I
was so concerned about standingout that I was suffocating
myself and I was worried aboutstanding out because I thought
if I did I would not haveexperienced the kind of success
(44:40):
that I wanted to experience theinteresting thing is when I
finally said hell with it I'mgonna be me and you don't have
to like me that's when themassive success and amazing
experiences started.
Are you seeing the same thing?
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
Oh yeah oh yeah it's oh here so one of my other
favorite books John GordonEnergy Bus and it's one of my
favorite ones and it is a keycomponent to also be in the
bridge or the middleman is wethere are people who create
energy and there are people whofeed off energy.
(45:16):
Well find out how to be the onewho creates the energy and how
if you walk in a room with 10positive people do you naturally
go positive okay great now ifyou walk in that same room and
there's 10 negative people doyou find yourself you go
negative or are you trying tobrighten the room right that's
(45:40):
what people who are different orembrace who they are you notice
that energy they create that youknow when when everything we
have a we have a core value fromcompany I work with it's embrace
the sock.
Yeah and when you get into thatmoment when everybody goes from
(46:03):
hey things are going great theneverybody starts to drop you can
feel the weight you can just Imean you can almost see the
cloud where everybody's andsomebody sparks it into that
moment where it's almostdysfunctional fun it's good.
SPEAKER_00 (46:20):
Now it's okay what else is it going to rain perfect
bring the rain bring bring itall we're ready and it's who can
do that and as a leader asthat's the bridge as the
middleman that's aresponsibility you have is it's
a light switch even if you'renot feeling it what do I have to
do to show up and be that personfor yeah man and again it's a
(46:47):
choice now getting there is noteasy right I wonder I wondered
this I love the life I'm havinglike it is unimaginable the
experiences I have today but Iwonder would it be possible to
be having the experiences theimpact the influence that I have
without going through all thesucky parts right like I know
(47:10):
for me the answer is no I neededthe sucky parts it's what you
don't get clear and understandbut I always wonder I want like
for my baby brother my nephewsand my nieces can they have the
same level of fulfillment andimpact on the world without all
the sucky without having to gothrough the sucky parts what do
(47:31):
you think you're right creatingthe energy and doing that is
very difficult and it does taketime but I will say if you want
to start somewhere start withgratitude towards the worst
things in your life start withand for two two years now I have
(47:53):
started a what I call agratitude journal.
SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
Every night it is one sentence it's all it takes
down something about how farI've come or thankful for that
miserable time in my lifebecause it put me here I read
that and again it's a choice ofthe narrative you want to tell
yourself.
Yes if you want to change thenarrative from resentment to
(48:17):
gratitude then do it.
SPEAKER_00 (48:19):
And you do it by writing it down making it and
putting it in front of yourselfand reading it out loud and
being there and you will noticethat shift will change yeah 100%
I I've met this guy in the 12step meetings he would say I'm
grateful for everything I haveand everything I don't and I I
(48:42):
like I hear him it was early onin my sobriety path right and so
one day I'm like hey man whatthe hell does that mean what do
you mean you're grateful for thethings that you don't have and
he's oh that's easy man I'mgrateful that I'm not sleeping
in an eight by six room anymore.
I don't have the old bed that Iused to have I'm like why would
(49:05):
you be in an eight by six roomhe's jail I was like oh he's I'm
grateful that I don't have toeat at 7 a.m2pm and 5 p.m every
day whether I like it or not andI then I'm like I understand so
it was his form of beinggrateful for the hard times
(49:26):
because he's a Joel like againof being appreciative of what
the hell you actually have inthe moment.
So the hard times I would sayadd value to the good times.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
So maybe the answer maybe I just answered my own
question right without the hardtimes how could I even value
amazingness that I have now oh Ithink you need them there's that
there's that quote pressure is aprivilege you know right to I go
out and I'm blessed to have theopportunity to help a team
(49:57):
through a hard time or come to asolution or help an 18 year old
new hire in the industry lineout a path that gets him whether
it's here whether it's with mewhether it's not that gets him
where he wants to go that's apressure that's I mean that's a
privilege.
I'm grateful for all that I wentthrough this exercise with a lot
(50:18):
of things my dad passed away in20 in 2022 same year that I was
struggling with all a lot yeahand just just earlier this year
I said that's one of the thingsI write down that I'm grateful
for my dad passing away it wasfor a year prior to that he was
in he was in assisted living andthen hospice I drove to see him
(50:43):
four hours every week to see himfor a half hour because it was
during COVID.
So they only gave me 30 minutes.
Yeah we had the bestconversations and connected on a
level that I haven't talked tohim probably ever in my life.
Right here and as sad as it is Idon't know if I ever would have
had that conversation with himif we would have gotten to that
(51:05):
level if that hadn't come.
And so I missed the heck out ofhim and I traded to have him
back in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_00 (51:12):
But I'm thankful for that time that we had to connect
and to give back to the fatherson and not even just friends
you know really understand kindof where he came from yeah man
so there you go folks gratitudebaby it'll change your world and
maybe this I just sound a littlecrazy to some people but when
(51:33):
everything sucks around you thatis a great time to be gratitude
one thing what are you gratefulfor what could you be grateful
for and it'll just startchanging your perspective
changing your energy so that youcan better contribute right
because there's that's whatwe're here for.
SPEAKER_01 (51:49):
We're here to serve others now I'm gonna give you a
heads up I do have a hardquestion but I'm not gonna ask
it yet okay before we get to thehard question if somebody's
interested in this middlemanmindset being a part of the BTG
movement how do they getinvolved where do they go how do
we make that happen well numberone right now so I have been I
(52:13):
started doing I launched BTG in2024 and until then I've just
been kind of working one-on-onewith clients and working with
their teams individually doingthat stuff and I still do that
through one-on-one meetings but2026 I'm looking to launch what
I call the middleman mindsetacademy and it's probably going
to be eventually I want it to beable to be an online program
(52:35):
that people can actually getwork through on their own and
tie into bringing me in.
Also it can be it'll beworkshops that I can provide for
teams in general coupled withone-on-one coaching through the
process.
And then it might also be anoption of just a for those
individually who want to be apart of it or for financial
reasons being able to do a joinan online community that we kind
(52:57):
of once a week an hour or twowhere we go through the steps
and we do it over at 12, 16 weektime period.
Nice.
But the LinkedIn easiest wayeasiest way to do it honestly on
a risk of it all call me 5098997.
Tell me if you want and LinkedInis probably the easiest way
(53:19):
outside of that to get incontact you're welcome to put my
email address on here as wellthat you know we can post that
they can see that the I believethis is needed in this industry
and it's not just thecapabilities of leading
ourselves first.
It's understanding there's theprocess of the academy what we
really kind of work through andoutline is you start with
(53:41):
leading yourself first and thenwe go into the path to becoming
the bridge and it always startsat the fundamentals and nobody
wants to touch the fundamentalsbut we start at the fundamentals
of of what it means to bridgethe gap which is how do I gain
the bigger picture?
How do I understand theperspectives how do I find the
common goal and how do I startto lead people across and then
(54:04):
it dives into the things likecreating energy and how to do it
going into the things that Ibelieve where we severely drop
the ball in this industry whichis how do we set and manage
expectations how do we get ridof assumptions how do we
delegate how do we train and howdo we lead and the only thing
(54:27):
with that as far as leading goesis you lead you get you want to
be led differently than me.
And yes this one size fits allmetric for leadership doesn't
work.
No so there's a basis for how weempower and how we lead and how
we provide an impact but youneed the tools to be able to
discover okay well how do these10 people individually need to
(54:49):
be led and that's kind of whatwe focus on and build through
that.
So that is the in essence thatis the way to do it.
I would love to talk to anybodywhether it's individually or the
ideal thing would be a smallgroup coupled with the
one-on-one coaching inside ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (55:04):
Wow well and I think you're a hundred percent right
in that it is desperately neededin our industry and it's going
to become more and moreimportant the pain point is just
it's growing and growing becauseas well as I do people are
retiring and leaving theindustry.
So what that also means ispeople are getting promoted
(55:26):
faster than they ever gotpromoted before.
And we're still we mean ourconstruction industry is still
doing a freaking miserable jobat equipping people with the
fundamental skills to lead ateam and you just listed them
right delegation communicationsetting expectations all of
those things it's just kind oflike fairy dust you're just
(55:50):
gonna go well you brought up andyou said I don't think I
directly said it but I meant tosay it and you just brought it
up and I wanted to touch on thatone real quick communication.
SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
I have a love hate relationship with communication
and I tell people that I hatethe word communication because
we use it as a scapegoat.
You hear it in our industryeverybody will say we don't have
we don't communicate we don'thave good communication we don't
okay well what's the definitionof communication it's the kind
(56:20):
of information we actually dothat very well probably better
than any industry.
We send emails and text messageslike no end we pass information
great yeah we miss effectivecommunication is do you
understand what I'm saying sothat you can effectively take it
and help your team understandabout building that and when you
(56:43):
talk about the youngergeneration to the older I'm a
true believer in the nextgeneration I believe they're
gonna do great things in thisindustry contrary to a lot of
what a lot of people say theywant to frickin' work they they
just need to be led differentlybut they grew up in a generation
full of text message full oftech and old school wins in
(57:08):
communication and this is myopinion I don't care if it's
biased I'm gonna say it oldschool wins face-to-face
communication trumps anything ifyou can figure out how to do it
and how to navigate aconversation that's
uncomfortable or where you don'thave the confidence but you're
still willing to go in and haveit yes that's a big part of what
(57:31):
we coach as well is how tophysically go through those
conversations and how to tell 27year old project manager how do
you lead the 65 year oldsuperintendent.
No on paper they're contrary towhat the stigmas might tell you
they put PMs up here but they'renot field to PM it's a lateral
(57:54):
move it's just a different sideof the team but age wise you're
gonna go take somebody a year ortwo in and put them up against
some guy 40 years his senior inthe seniority category you don't
get to speak to him the same wayyou would talk to a 27 year old
it's yes you have to learn howto speak or how you communicate
(58:15):
and tell your owner that youdon't agree because agreeing is
going to do nothing but buildassumptions and lead to that so
how do you actually navigateconversations with the owner
where you disagree andor thecustomer where you disagree
respectfully it's being kind notnice.
SPEAKER_00 (58:33):
Yeah oh yeah that that own two things and I'm with
you on the communication thingwe're experts and making mouth
noise and calling itcommunication but if the person
didn't receive communication didnot happen and I think even more
importantly as a leader if youcan't listen and all you do is
(58:55):
make mouth noise that's why yourpeople are saying we have a
communication problem becausepart of communication is
freaking listening.
SPEAKER_01 (59:05):
I got a question for you I got a question you said
receiver shares the burden ofthe responsibility in your
opinion opinion when it comes toeffective communication is it
the sender or is it thereceiver?
SPEAKER_00 (59:18):
Me and so let me expand.
When I am communicating thatlike I need to give a directive
or share some information updatewhatever it is my owners my
responsibility to ensure thatthey understood what the
deliverable needs to look likewhat the timeframe is and that
we're clear on that they havethe resources necessary to
(59:42):
fulfill the request that's myjob.
Now when I'm the receiver it ismy responsibility to say wait a
minute I know you said you wantthis when do you want it what
are the like the distinguishingfactors of the deliverable that
you want from me what does goodlook like to you so that I can
fulfill that and so for me it'sa hundred percent ownership
(01:00:05):
thing to own it on both ends.
But now I will give a leader andwhen I say leader I mean
somebody that has formalauthority in the organization if
they at the very least own theresponsibility of securing a
commitment having a timelineassociated with that and
verifying that the individualclearly understands what the
(01:00:27):
deliverable or the end result issupposed to look like if they've
done that they win.
In terms of like the receivingpart and this is I'm giving
people a pass just because ofthe conditioning that we've had
in our industry if they justshut up and listen a little bit
they get an A plus for mebecause it there's so few people
that listen if that have formalauthority that listen worth the
(01:00:50):
shit.
And that's part of because ourindustry says you're the leader
you got to have the answer yougive direction you and so people
have been conditioned to alwaysbe moving their mouth and so if
they just move their mouth lessI give them a thumbs up but
there's a lot of we listen tospeak rather than listen to hear
you got it.
That's exactly right so that'smy answer I may be a little
(01:01:11):
rigid on it but that's where Ilove it.
I love it.
Awesome man okay well dude thishas been amazing and I'm excited
for your answer to the finalquestion because I'm nervous I'm
I'm a little scared it's easyman you've had some serious life
experience that most peoplewon't even talk about and not
(01:01:33):
Only did you talk, do you talkabout it, but you've built this
whole system to help otherpeople avoid that or at least
work through that?
And so, because of that, I getthe sense that your answer is
gonna be pretty damn awesome.
And so here we go.
What is the promise you areintended to be?
What is the promise I amintended to be?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:57):
I mean, it is the only because I believe in it so
much, I've got to say I'mintended to be the bridge.
I'm intended to be that person.
And it sounds corny when I saidit.
I started saying it two yearsago.
I believe God put me on thisearth to be that bridge, to make
an impact.
(01:02:17):
And it was hard to admit that.
I mean, it wasn't it's easy tosay it, it's hard to allow
yourself to truly believe it andfeel it.
And James Clear talks about it alot in atomic habits of
identity.
You and I use a big portion ofthat of what he talks about in
(01:02:38):
there is a big portion ofleading yourself first, and
because it starts the ABCs,awareness, belief, and
compassion.
That's what I call the ABCs of abulletproof mindset.
Okay, you get the awareness, andthen it comes down to who am I
truly meant to be?
Who am I truly meant to be?
And you have that picture andsay, okay, I'm meant to be, I'm
(01:03:00):
meant to help people.
I'm built for more than justbeing this person.
Okay, well, now instead ofsaying I want to be that person,
no, I am that person.
Now I it's who I am, it's myidentity.
I am the bridge, I am the coach,I am the leader, I am the
husband I'm supposed to be, I amthe father I'm supposed to be.
(01:03:22):
And if you can shape thatidentity and learn to talk
compassionately to yourself,we're our own worst enemies
every time we beat ourselves upnonstop.
That if you can learn to giveyourself a little bit of grace,
like you would maybe a friend ifthey came to you in a struggle,
you know, you'll find thatyou'll work towards that path.
(01:03:43):
Once you have those things, youcan work towards that path.
And it starts with identity ofwho I am.
This is who I am, this is mypromise to me.
I'm there, I'm that person.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:53):
Yes, 10, 4.
I knew it, man.
Gangster, I love it, dude.
Did you have fun?
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:00):
I had a great time, man.
Oh, I could I could keep going.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:03):
Yeah, I know it.
We took we're talking aboutcommunication and identity.
Oh, these are all subjects thatI love to nerd out about, man.
This is good stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:12):
I love it.
I loved it.
I appreciate it, man.
I appreciate it, brother.
This has been absolutelyfantastic.
Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:18):
Thank you for sticking it out all the way to
the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on.
And in appreciation for the giftof time that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book, Becoming
the Promise You're Intended toBe.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
(01:04:39):
There's a link in there.
You just click that but and youcan download the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate.
You sharing that increases thelikelihood that it's going to
help one more person.
(01:04:59):
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be.
Be kind to yourself, be cool,and we'll talk at you next time.
Needed rather than trying to get to the other side
of the bridge, I needed tobecome the bridge.
That's the goal of leadership.
My goal is to provide theunderstanding to empower those
to cross over to the other sideand help them become better than
me.
That's the goal of a leader.
SPEAKER_00 (00:21):
What is going on, LM family?
Back again.
And this time I got somebodythat kind of has a heart for the
same kind of stuff I have aheart for, which is blue-collar
people, right?
Folks out there that put theirhands on tools and build and
maintain the things that we do.
He is the creator of themiddleman mindset, which of
(00:42):
course we're going to get into.
And he's helping blue collarleaders lead themselves first,
which I absolutely love.
His name is Mr.
Bryce Harram.
He's the founder and owner ofBTG Services, and we're about to
get to know about all of thatstuff.
But before that, and if this isyour first time here, you are
(01:02):
listening to the Learnings andMissteps podcast, where you get
to see super awesome people justlike you sharing their gifts and
talents to leave this worldbetter than they found it.
I am Jesse, your selfishservant, and we're about to get
to know Mr.
Bryce.
Mr.
Bryce, how you doing, brother?
(01:22):
I'm good, brother.
How are you?
SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
And I agree, I agree.
Jesse is the man.
SPEAKER_00 (01:27):
He's the man.
You're you know what?
You're my favorite guest ever.
How's that?
Like I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
I'm gonna go back and watch every episode, make
sure you haven't said thatbefore.
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Well, it might be some editing that has to take
place between now and then, butyeah, man.
Oh man, I'm glad to have you onhere.
And so yeah, man.
I like to start with a simplekind of teaser question.
And so we'll start with thesoftball question.
Why does someone have to learnto lead themselves first?
(01:59):
Oh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
I don't know if that's a softball question.
That's a deep question, man.
Let's I'm gonna I'm gonna startwith why I decided to lead
myself first and how I figuredthat out.
And it really came down to I'm amiddleman.
Uh I look at the middleman assomebody who answers to
(02:23):
expectations from above, but isalso trying to lead what I call
as the bridge.
You are you are the one who istrying to lead people below you,
above you, and next to you.
You're dealing with it from allsides.
And if you're not careful, thosepressures, those challenges eat
(02:43):
you up.
And for me, they did that.
Yeah, they did that 100%.
And it happened at a time,honestly, and we can go as deep
as you want into it, but in atime that was the most financial
success I had had and the teamhad.
We yeah, I had everything onpaper looked great, but I was
(03:09):
drowning, and the only way Iknew how to solve the problem
was to drink the pain away.
And I just started, I mean, it'sso common in this industry
because it's it's such a norm.
I just I would come home and Iwould drink to forget, and I'd
wake up and I'd do it again.
And yes, it was easy to justifyit because everybody does it.
(03:32):
And I in a time when everybodywas things were going well and
the team wanted to run it backand everything was smooth at the
end of the season, I was readyto walk away and told the team I
was done.
And I just if that was the wayit was gonna be, if that was the
way it was as the boss or theleader of that team, I said, I
(03:56):
want no part of it.
I just yeah, I don't like theperson I'm becoming if that's
the case.
And I took the weekend, I tookthe weekend to think about it,
and I started what I now call myY journal today.
And it's where I dive intorather than deal with anxieties
or stresses through drinking orwhatever the case may be, I was
(04:17):
also nicotine was also extremelybad for me.
Um and I started going intojournaling and the Y journal
specifically to dive into theroot cause of the problem to get
where I needed to go.
And when I got down to thatweekend, I started my Y journal
as the first time I ever startedit, and I wrote, Why do you love
(04:39):
the industry?
And it came down to the people.
I know you and I have agreed onthis before.
It is the people, and I've saidit before, I'm gonna keep saying
it.
We are dysfunctional in theabsolute best way possible.
Now I was just speaking withsome of a friend this morning,
(05:00):
and we were talking about it.
How I personally, I might bebiased because this is my
industry, but I don't know ofanother industry that you get
such a wide spread demographicof people, yeah, from office to
field and everything in betweenbackgrounds, second chances,
(05:20):
third chances.
Heck, we even got fourthchances, fifth chances, whatever
it is.
But it all comes togethersomehow.
We have to all come together tomake it work.
Yeah, and it makes for some fun.
Absolutely.
So I decided to stay.
I told myself I need to stay,I'm here for the people.
(05:42):
I gotta stay, I gotta be here.
But I need to find a way tohandle this, to make this what I
call the foundation up here.
And so I went back to thedrawing board, and it's where I
think a lot of leadershiptraining honestly fails these
days, is we if you get luckyenough to be taught how to
(06:03):
delegate, how to train, how toset expectations, and all those
things, which are widespread farin between in general.
But if you're lucky enough,well, what happens when pardon
my French but shit hits the fan?
Yeah, because it will.
And if you don't have the thingsto fall back on, the the habits,
(06:24):
the whatever it is, theawareness, the reflection, those
things to fall back on, it'sgonna tear you apart.
And so in the middleman mindset,we start with lead yourself
first, because you're going toface the pressures, you're gonna
face the anxieties, thestresses, the challenges.
So we build from the foundationup, which is up here, going
(06:48):
through how to reflect, how toget awareness, how to build the
identity of what you want, andthen the ongoing habits to
actually structure that andteams and time management.
SPEAKER_00 (06:58):
Oh, I love it.
I get, and I'm sure you get thisquestion a lot like, I want to
be in leadership.
What do I need to do to be aleader?
And my answer, it I'm superbasic.
It's two things.
Number one, you have to have adirection.
Because if you don't have yourown direction, you ain't leading
(07:18):
nobody nowhere.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, period.
And I give some flexibility,like, even if it's a dumb
direction, at least you have adirection.
And as well as I do, thatfreaking direction is gonna
change a million times over theyears.
So just have a direction, right?
The second thing I say is yougotta have followers, right?
(07:40):
If you don't have a directionand nobody's following you,
you're not leading.
And it's so, which I thinkconnects nicely to what you're
saying.
Like, you gotta lead yourselffirst.
Now, you mentioned a few things: journaling, self-awareness, time (07:51):
undefined
management.
Yeah, why are those things?
What's the value of thosethings?
Why do you think we miss those?
Like you know, and you alreadyknow I'm guilty of this too.
I got promoted like crazy, andthose things I had not, I didn't
(08:13):
have that skill set until laterin life.
So, why do you think it doesn'tcome naturally to us?
And how much does thatcontribute to like your
situation where you get to apoint where it's like forget all
of this, it ain't worth it.
SPEAKER_01 (08:27):
Yeah, man.
I think it's because honestly,it's humbling that you yeah, I
mean, you think you have to beyou have to drop the ego to go
and ask somebody for help.
Well, you really gotta drop theego to dive into why am I
failing?
Really understand where it'scoming from.
When I went through it, I cameback and I talked to the team
(08:47):
and said, I need to change theentire way I lead.
And it's gonna start withmyself, and that sounds odd
because a lot of people say, Oh,not gonna the first thing we do
is cut out the time forourselves.
Typically, I have three domainsI put everything in, and this is
(09:08):
part of that process of self,relationships, and work.
Those are the three domains, andI work inside all of those with
the time management blockingthat I do.
And the first one we always cutout, we make time for the
relationships, or we make timefor work, but then what are we
sacrificing?
And people will say, Well, it'sI feel selfish if I'm working
(09:29):
out or I'm meditating or readinga book or journaling and doing
those things.
And it's it is the most selflessthing you can do.
Yes, because if you truly wantto show up for your family, for
your team, for your friends,relationships, whoever it is,
you need that in order to showup with the best possible form
you can, yeah.
(09:50):
And I think that's for me,awareness is the boilerplate of
all of it.
I went six months justrelentless reflection and
awareness and really digginginto okay, why am I insecure
about this?
Why do I have thesecharacteristics?
Why is my default character thisway?
Does it stem from some traumaticevent, or is it just who I am?
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
I want to do the LM family member shout-out.
And this one goes out to Mr.
Jeff Riley.
Mr.
Jeff, I appreciate you.
He left me a Google reviewbecause now I'm like official.
I have a Google page where youcan leave reviews.
Anyways, he says, This was agreat experience.
It really gave me a roadmap onhow to effectively improve work
(10:35):
in the field.
This was all taught with passionand enthusiasm that made an
eight-hour day go by fast.
Jesse is the man.
And which Jesse?
This Jesse right here.
That's who he's talking about.
And Mr.
Jeff went through a full-dayworkshop of sweat equity
improvement.
And so, Jeff, thank you, bro,for taking the time to leave
(10:55):
that.
And for the rest of you outthere, y'all already know I love
me some attention.
And when you do take the time toleave me a review, give me a
shout-out, or comment on some ofthe posts, it gives me an
opportunity to shout you out inthe future.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
And so I kind of went all the way back into
finding that out.
And I'm a controversial opinionthat we are not able to change
our default character.
I believe what you have as yourdefault character is your
default character.
However, you can pick thedirection you want to go and you
can change the course once youbecome aware of it.
(11:34):
If you now I've got a voice inmy head that says, Okay, well,
this is my instinctive reactionof to be this way.
And but who I want to be andwhere I want to go, that voice
says, Oh no, take a minute,you're going this way, and
that's what awareness does foryou.
SPEAKER_00 (12:40):
Oh, I love it.
Have you ever read the bookMan's Search for Meaning?
I have not, dude.
I'm gonna add it to my list.
It's it transformed my life, andthere was one quote specifically
that it totally changed.
I was in the middle of myaddiction, I wasn't in rehab
yet, but it helped me on mypath, anyways.
(13:02):
There's a quote, so it's writtenby Victor Franco, who's a
Holocaust survivor.
Freaking, I mean, this book hasgot real heavy shit in it, so be
ready.
But the quote was this, and whatyou just said kind of stirred it
up in my head.
And within that space lies ourpower to choose, and then it
(13:25):
goes on to say, and when weexercise that power, we can make
that space bigger.
Of course, I'm not quoting it,but this is the justified
version of what the message was.
SPEAKER_01 (13:38):
You just gave me goosebumps, man.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
Dude, right.
I mean, it's in like when I wasreading it, this is coming from
a dude that like survived thesecamps when everybody around him
was dying, and it was a like itwas there was no hope.
And so it was, I mean, and hemade it through, but that his
mindset was what helped him.
And I remember like thinking,man, at this point in my life, I
(14:03):
was drinking because ofeverybody, it was their fault.
The guys pissed me off at work,the GC pissed me off, my ex
pissed, like it was everybodyelse's fault.
I honestly functioned as if Ididn't have a choice because my
default, like you pointed out,my default was to numb myself
with alcohol and anything else,really, back then.
(14:25):
And then I was like, wait aminute, it's not their fault.
I'm just not choosing, it justtotally freaking rocked my
world.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
You just, I mean, once you're capable of realizing
that almost everything is achoice, yeah, brother.
Yeah, one of that is one of themost freeing things you want to
do, and you'll notice a lot ofpeople when you lack that
awareness, when you lack thatchoice, that this decisiveness
of being able to say, Okay,whoa, that's where you get into
(14:59):
what I call the personalitiesthat burn the bridge.
When you get into the victim,the even the micromanagers, the
confabulators, all these things,if you have awareness, you can
pull yourself back out.
Yes, but when you don't, that'syou just you sit in that lane,
and it's no surprise we arefucking stubborn as hell.
(15:20):
Yes, and you're not gonna changethat opinion.
Yeah, but the moment youactually say, Okay, whoa, this
isn't this doesn't feel right,or I don't like the way this is
going, I want to change who I amor who I can become.
Now you can make choices, andthat's one of the most freeing
(15:41):
decisions you can do.
SPEAKER_00 (15:42):
Oh, 10 four man.
Okay, you said a word that Inever heard before
confabulators.
Yes, that tell me.
SPEAKER_01 (15:51):
This came from I I first heard it from Miss Brene
Brown.
Uh she's uh Dared Lead, she'swrote multiple books, but Dared
Lead was the main first one Iread from her.
And she talks aboutconfabulations and
confabulators.
Okay, and it is one of my 10personalities that burn the
bridge.
Don't ask me to remember torecite them all because I can't
remember, remember them off thetop of my head.
(16:12):
But the confabulator is one ofthe most dangerous ones,
honestly, because it is we allhave a narrative we tell
ourselves, right?
We all have something, a storythat we shape in our own mind.
And when you're doing that, theproblem is that can be negative
or that can be positive, andthat's where that awareness
comes in.
(16:32):
But when you take a partialtruth, so you take like a 75,
let's just say 75% truth, andyou mix that with what you
assume or believe to be true.
The problem is you have a basisof okay, this is right, but you
have a narrative you shaped ifyou're if you have a negative
(16:55):
narrative about the situation ingeneral, then you are going to
form the conclusion for that.
So without the evidence, youcreate what the problem is, and
you create that in your head.
And one of the biggest problemsabout it is it's very hard to
detect because you people trulybelieve it.
You're not lying because youbelieve it to be true, but it's
(17:17):
also very believable.
And so if you are a person ofinfluence on the team, let's say
a foreman or superintendent or aproject manager or worse owner,
CEO, whatever it is, you havepeople following you, and you
are making an impact, you'reinfluencing them all the time.
If you carry that narrative, nowthey buy into it.
(17:38):
Yeah, and pretty soon you have awhole team that spreads
negativity that spreads likewildfire.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Yes, okay, got it.
So confabulation is partialtruth, justification of
something, and findingreinforcing data to say this is
true, this is because there issome truth, yes, but it's not
all entirely true, and then itkind of becomes my scapegoat to
(18:04):
hide behind and say, well,because XYZ.
SPEAKER_01 (18:08):
And the only way I have found to truly break it
down, if you're trying todiscover, okay, is this if
something feels off and you'relike, Well, is this person is
this a confabulation, forinstance?
If you ask enough questions andyou come into it with a I would
say lead with curiosity and youstart asking, you will notice
that there's no evidence,there's no documentation to back
(18:30):
it up.
Yes, and so then it's like awell, it's obvious.
Well, it's not obvious.
Where do we find out?
Is the company is the companystealing from us?
Well, oh yeah, I'll beobviously.
Oh, cool.
Show me where they're stealing.
Well, I mean I just know it.
Okay.
So you get into that part of it,yeah, yeah, and that's when you
can start to tell.
And so if you can train peopleand teach people how to ask
(18:53):
those questions to figure thatout, and especially the the
young, influenceable, is that aword?
Influenceable people, um, thepeople who you know are getting
influenced to question you knowthat back a little bit, then
they'll start to understand andthey'll start to see it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:10):
Love it.
So I have a cheat code that Iwant to run by you, see what you
think.
It's specifically aroundchallenging and testing our
assumptions.
Because I believe like themajority of the frustrations and
irritations that I experiencecome from uncommunicated
expectations and unsecuredcommitments, period.
(19:32):
Now that happens because ofassumptions, right?
Now, amen.
Amen.
But here's the cheat code forme, the flag that I pay
attention to to say, oh, I thinkI'm confabulating.
That's a new word.
I'm gonna abuse the hell out ofit.
It's a new word for me, anyways.
When I say should, they shouldhave known that shouldn't have
(19:55):
happened.
Anytime I say the word should,I'll like, I got assumptions in
(20:47):
there somewhere, clearly,because I had an expectation
that they would deliversomething in some time frame,
and they didn't.
And I can't articulate I wasexpecting that I'm expecting
that to be in my hands by 6 p.m.
today.
I'll say, yeah, they should havedid it like sometime, like they
(21:09):
should be sending, they shouldknow that I needed it.
And damn it, there's anassumption, there's an
uncommunicated expectation andan unsecured commitment.
So the cheat code is you when Iuse the word should, that's the
flag to say, hey, dummy, youneed to check yourself.
What do you think about that?
That is fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
I honestly don't know.
I mean, I agree with you.
I would be as bold to say thatI'm a big believer in not using
absolutes, I don't really liketo use all, never, can't, all
those things, but 99% of theproblems we face in this
industry, especially the fieldversus office dynamic, if you're
(21:49):
trying to bridge that is basedon assumptions.
That if the reason that peoplehate or are unwilling to have
the extreme uncomfortableconversations we have is because
there was no expectation set,which makes the feedback chain
so much harder.
(22:09):
And that I agree with you, andit's the same kind of thing.
I even find it with my kids.
That's like a hey, go clean yourroom.
Well, an hour later, I'm pissedoff because he didn't clean his
room when it's well,technically, he has until he's
18 and moves out to clean it outnow, because I never gave him a
deadline.
I never you know whatever setthat expectation, and it it
(22:30):
happens all the time inminuscule ways and large ways,
but really it's the small ones,it's not the big problem, it's
not the big assumption, it's thesmall assumptions that just
stack up and compound over time,and nobody talks about them.
SPEAKER_00 (22:45):
No, it we just let them build and build and
confabulate, right?
Because it reinforces myposition, it um helps me feel
good that everybody else iswrong, it can't be me.
Now, you mentioned Brene Brown,and I've read her books, I've
read a few of her books, but I'mcurious what why did you decide?
Because most people are gonnasay that's a woman thing, right?
(23:08):
Like all the stuff that shedoes, and it's powerful stuff.
But what was it that motivatedyou to consume her content?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
So I had in when I went through what I call I kind
of call my mental struggle,mental breakdown, really.
Uh yeah, that was in 2023, sonot that long ago.
It was I hadn't read a book in10 years, over 10 years,
probably.
And I almost thought it was likethe cool thing to do to not
(23:39):
read.
It's it's like go talk aboutthat now.
But I it's as as ironic andcrazy as it is, I went from
extreme ownership to dare tolead.
Right.
So I mean, talk about polaropposite.
And what had happened is I waseven though I'm I'm a
(24:01):
millennial, I'm 37 years old, Iwas raised old school
construction.
Yep.
That emotions are no, it just novulnerability that's worse than
dropping the f bomb anywhere.
You ain't doing that.
You can forget, oh, you'rehaving it, you're having a bad
mental health day.
Cool, work harder and work itoff.
(24:23):
Then when I realized in so 22,my first year as general
manager, I failed completelyterribly.
And we can get into that one tooif you want, but I failed.
And that led me into saying,okay, my whole goal of chasing
the title was wrong.
(24:45):
Rather than trying to get to theother side of the bridge, I
needed to become the bridge.
That's the goal of leadership.
My goal is to provide theunderstanding to empower those
to cross over to the other sideand help them become better than
me.
That's the goal of a leader.
unknown (25:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:02):
That's the goal of being the bridge.
That's what I think is themiddleman.
And so when I came out of that,and then I dove into 23, where
we had success as a company whenwe turned it around, but
mentally I didn't know how tohandle the pressure that I had
put on myself for it.
Then I came out of that andsaid, All right, now I'm set,
(25:25):
I've got my mindset right.
I've realized that what I didknow isn't necessarily the, I
don't believe is the best way tolead because it's not me.
I was trying to be something Iwasn't.
And I went with I started, ofcourse, with extreme ownership.
That was the book at the time.
It was just, hey, you read thatas booked.
Go and it's fantastic.
(25:46):
And I said, okay, that's I mean,this is fantastic.
Everything on here I agree with,I'm locked in, I'm ready to go.
I love it, I absolutely love it.
What is something nobody wouldexpect me to read next?
Oh, and what is something Iwould never expect myself to
read next?
Okay, it's a challenge, yes, andit went into uh Brene Brown, the
(26:10):
Queen of Vulnerability, man.
I mean, yes, she is, and it issuch I mean, just talk about
office versus field separationdone, it is such a polar
opposite book.
Yep, but at the same time, I cantie them together.
You can actually start to tiethem together when you break
(26:30):
into how Jocko and Leif gothrough their stuff.
Well, they don't say it thatsame way, right?
Same thing.
Um and I just I mean, I readthat one, and honestly, that's
one of if not, it's probably oneof my top five that I recommend
to people, especially if you area hard ass, tough ass, no
bullshit leader, and you thinkthat it doesn't exist.
(26:52):
I say, okay, cool, read this,and then come tell me how much
armor you're wearing when you'redone.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah, man.
Good.
I and that one, I think you'rethe first person I heard that
says, I read it because I wantedto read something that I would
never read.
Because it it's all aboutvulnerability and shame and the
origins of it and how itmanifests itself.
And I'm like you, I'm readingthat book.
I'm like, was this woman she'dbeen stalking me?
Like she's writing about mehere.
SPEAKER_01 (27:19):
70 70.
I think I looked it up.
78% of the mental struggles, themindset struggles we have in
this industry are involved arearound shame.
And because we are we are aheavily male-dominated industry,
you tie in not just the stigmaof being a man in construction,
(27:39):
but also if you're a husband, ifyou're a father, it is the shame
of not being able to provide.
Am I good enough?
I'm working 14 hours over here,but I'm missing the ball game
over here, I'm missing this.
The shame just destroys it.
And the way she goes about thatbook, very softly, very
respectfully.
SPEAKER_00 (27:59):
Yeah, totally.
No, it's trans.
So, folks, LM family out there,if you are struggling with like
the weight of the way I thinkabout it is maybe the best way
to describe it, before I readthat book, I was blind to how
much effort and energy I wasputting into living up to these
(28:22):
expectations that wereconfabulated, right?
Like I said to myself, my bossexpects this, my girlfriend
expects this, my family expectsthis, and I gotta do that, I
gotta fulfill that.
And it was all make-believe.
I made it up in my head.
None of them, you know what theywere asking for me.
My boss was telling me, Jesse,you need to take time off
because you're burning it up.
(28:42):
My exes were telling me, Jesse,I wish you would just kind of
relax and spend more time withme.
My mom was saying, I wish youwould visit me.
Nobody was saying that I neededto get the big new sexy project
and beat the budget by 20% andhave all that was all in my
head.
SPEAKER_01 (28:58):
You were telling yourself what you should do.
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
You got it.
You got it, you nailed it, bro.
And then I when I read thatbook, my motivation was somebody
told me, Jesse, you are theabsolute least vulnerable human
being I've ever met.
And I said, No, I'm not.
And then I read the book, like,okay, maybe she was right
because I didn't reallyunderstand.
I was like, Vulnerable, that's aweakness.
(29:22):
Why would you be vulnerable?
That's not smart, that's justnot strategic, right?
Anyways, on the back end of it,took off helped me continue or
down the path to remove thearmor and really just show up as
I'm intended to be, which is somuch more fun.
Now, so extreme ownership, lovethe book, amazing content, and
(29:44):
again, that's another one ofthose keys of when I own
everything, when I takeownership of my part, right?
Because every success and everyfailure that we have contributed
to it, carrying.
I'm not saying it's our fault orlike you contributed to some
degree.
We have a role to play, there'sa role to play in it.
(30:06):
That's it, and taking ownershipfor that part gives us the power
back to Victor Frankel, right?
Gives us the power to change thedirection or make the different
set of choices that we need tomake to get to where we want to
be when we own our part in it,not saying it's all our fault
and nobody else, like no, justown your part.
(30:29):
I have a buddy, Sean Moran.
He's like, Jess, he he coachespeople too, like his full-time
job.
And um, he's like, I'm trying tohelp my team understand that at
the very least, every problemyou're experiencing, you're at
least one percent of theproblem.
And I'm like, Amen, man.
But some of them even fight thatlike, yeah, no, it's it's a
journey, people have to getthere.
(30:50):
So you mentioned a couple oftimes this thing between the
field and the office, yeah.
And there's some alliteration orsome analogies in there about
the middleman mindset, thebridge.
What uh what's going on there?
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
So, I mean, everybody, everybody by now has
heard everybody there, it is,but the absolutes, I ask I
assume majority of people haveheard the phrase bridge the gap.
People take it in a wide arrayof reasons, wide range of
reasons or beliefs on what thattruly means.
But in in my opinion, theperson, the the person who
(31:25):
bridges the gap is the one whotakes the time to understand
both sides.
It's all about personality.
perspectives.
It's all about it's not okay,you got side A and you got side
B.
It's I'm the one who brings bothof them together.
So the part of being themiddleman is you have to have a
(31:50):
desire for everybody to win.
Everybody wins.
It doesn't matter if you don'tlike the person, everybody wins.
And if you can carry that in,that's where I say okay, the
middleman, which I would referto as the foreign
superintendents, the operationsmanagers, construction managers,
(32:12):
project managers, estimators.
These people who are obviously apart of the team, they're not
upper senior management or CEOs,owners.
They answer to those people.
But in my opinion, the middlemanhas the opportunity to have more
(32:34):
influence than anybody else onthe team.
And they are the ones who who'sthe first one to get the phone
call when all shit hits the fanand all chaos goes.
The middleman who's the one whospeaks and negotiates and talks
to the customer on a dailyweekly basis?
The middleman.
Who's the one who's around theteam 95% of the time.
(32:58):
The middleman.
Yeah.
It's once you the owner, theCEO, it's their job to support
the team and give them thethings they need to excel and
empower them to perform to theirabilities but it's the middleman
who drives it home.
Yeah.
And honestly they it's you sayit's like the middle child
(33:22):
they're the ones who also getneglected.
They're the ones that say okayyou're the best operator.
Fantastic.
We're going to promote you toforeman.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (33:34):
What do I got to do?
Oh you just all you got to do isyou're going to lead this team
of five to ten guys.
Not a big deal.
Here's the expectations maybe ifyou're lucky you get those and
by the way you're responsiblefor everything on the job and
it's going to be a lot of work.
You're still going to have tooperate but we're going to go
ahead and make sure you trainmake sure you delegate and let
(33:57):
us know if you need anything.
Communications at two way streetgot it and then they wonder why
he quits in three months.
Oh yeah but the person or thepeople who are willing to say
okay I'm let's take a field forinstance I'm the superintendent
and you say the office should bedoing this.
(34:19):
They should do that they shoulddo that.
I'm using that because youbrought up that word and I loved
it.
They should do these things ifyou are saying that over and you
have the awareness you say okayI'm missing something.
Yes.
So now I'm going to go spendtime on this side of the bridge
and I'm going to figure out thatperspective.
Yep.
And I'm going to walk my assback across and I'm going to
(34:42):
help my team understand in a waythat relates to them and their
one.
And now you're building thatbridge.
It's us and them not us versusthem.
SPEAKER_00 (34:52):
Yeah yeah okay so what I'm hearing is that the
middleman mindset is thefacilitator the translator the
connector and the empower you'rethe one who I mean it is your
job to if I mean if you chooseto do it it it is your job to
make sure that you are takinghowever many people are around
(35:15):
you say it's five people my goalis that those five people in
whatever timeline I deem correctare better than me at my job.
SPEAKER_01 (35:25):
Yeah in the direction of where they want to
go and you mentioned somethingearlier about when people say I
want to be a leader.
You need those things.
Tell me about that tell me whattell me why what is and I'm very
curious of what is it?
And a lot of times when theydon't really know they say I
want to be I want to be the bossI want to be in control.
(35:46):
It's an ego thing or it's money.
Oh well the the foreman makes 50bucks an hour 45 bucks an hour
or whatever it is and I'msitting here making 2530 I want
to make 45 bucks an hour.
I said I get it I get it thisisn't for you.
Right.
Right why not if that is yourmotivation alone you're not
(36:10):
going to make it because moneydoesn't last in the long run.
Money can be a part of it.
Everybody should want to makemake more and gain and I'm a
full advocate of that you shouldwant to better yourself and
better your life and yourcircumstances but if you are
tying it solely to money orwanting the power like I did
(36:32):
when I chased the title you'regoing to fail.
You're going to fail and it'snot going to stick yeah you'll
lose yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
I mean I'm in there you and I sim very similar
stories chase like those thingsare so this is not gonna this
week like counterintuitive for alot of folks it's so easy to get
the raise and get the promotionbut it doesn't fill that void of
fulfillment and and that sort ofthing so so yeah man if it's
(37:04):
just about money in a title likeit ain't worth it.
Not only will you fail it ain'tlike that title and the money
you think you're going to getthat's going to change your life
it ain't it and the amount ofwork the and maybe more
accurately the amount of failurethat you're going to experience
jumping up that level if youdon't have a real deep
(37:27):
meaningful reason for it it'llbreak you.
SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
It am I wrong the I guess my one sentence pitch of
the middleman is the onenavigating expectations from
above while trying to leadothers below across and above as
the bridge that's the middlemanand if you're going to do that
(37:50):
now I say it all that I say itquite often that owners and CEOs
are up here.
Owners can do that too but yeahcompanies you have companies
where the owner is in the mix onthe day-to-day basis and you may
be the middleman you may be thatbridge while you're building and
while you're developing that'sit's absolutely opportunity
there but the one thing it takesis besides what I said
(38:16):
everybody's got to win is youhave to care more than everybody
else and people have always toldme don't take it personal fuck
that it is personal it ispersonal.
Now I'm not saying go cry aboutit if somebody teases you or
hazes you or it's all up in yourCheerios.
(38:39):
That's fine.
That's that's just that's partof being a family that's part of
be that's just part of what wedo.
Right.
Right it is absolutely personal.
If I lose somebody from the teamthat I love and care about
that's personal.
If I let them down that'spersonal the reason when if some
if you're lying there and I hopethere's somebody listening to
(39:00):
this one you say if you're lyingin bed and you're laying at the
ceiling wondering why or you'reashamed or you're thinking about
the 10 people you just had tolet go good because it's it is
personal and you need that toreally bring it home in my
opinion.
SPEAKER_00 (39:20):
Oh I agree.
I mean I've done my share ofterminations and even the ones
that I was waiting for the dayto terminate them it still
didn't it still bugs me becauseI am I impacted that man's life
the life of his family his kidsif they had kids if he had a
wife it is not a small thing.
(39:40):
If it doesn't stay with youthere's something there's some
introspection to be had so youstarted the BTG movement right
and well of the middlemanmindset because it absolutely is
a mindset that's coming throughloud and clear not like a title
you're the middleman butmiddleman mindset being the
connector the bridge so but whathave you learned about yourself
(40:03):
since launching BTG okay maybethe first one was a softball
question.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
They're getting deeper now I have learned
probably more than anything thatwhen it comes to being a leader
and truly wanting to make animpact the number one thing we
can strive for is beingauthentic.
Okay.
And it becomes I spent yearsyoung growing up with a fear of
(40:35):
what others thought of me and itdictated I mean I could I would
be what you call a chameleon.
I never I wasn't the jock Iwasn't the popular kid I wasn't
all these things but I could gointo any group and adapt.
And I did it to make people likeme and what happens is you start
to be nice and you startfocusing on being nice instead
(40:56):
of being kind and there's a bigand when I dove into this
process it was okay well if I'mgoing to lead in this way if I'm
going to do these things and ifI truly want to make an impact
for people who am I if I'm notgoing to be me I'm the class
clown.
I like it I like to be me I liketo be weird I like to walk
(41:18):
around Hawaiian shirts I like todo those things.
Yeah to hell if people laugh andif anything laughing at the
expense of me as the boss that'sa win that brings the team
closer together.
Right.
So but I think that's that's oneof the main ones authenticity
really that that sells that hitshome that's what people I mean
(41:40):
that's what gets people rightthere is for better or worse
whether or not you agree withsomebody you respect somebody
who is authentically there.
Yep and the other one is trulyfinding out what your values are
going into BTG and doing thesethings I told myself okay if I'm
going to dive into who is Brycewho am I what are the people I
(42:02):
want the type of people I wantto work with I've had to say no.
I've had to say no I'm I gotoffered an opportunity to speak
share more of the middlemanmindset and honestly it was to
students a while back a year agoand they asked me to leave out
the part where the industry ischallenging and mentally it can
(42:23):
break you and I said I can't dothat.
I can't leave that right theydidn't they were scared it would
push these kids away from theindustry.
And I said what's better thatthey find out now and they get
the and I can provide them thetools to handle it or they find
out two years from now when theyenter the program as a project
(42:45):
manager or an estimator or afield engineer field whatever it
is and they find out the hardway and they burn out and you
lose them in a year becausethat's what happens.
Yep.
And I think that's been thatcomes down to the authentic part
is if awareness of truly knowingwho you are what you want to be
and what the goals are you startto see that very clearly of no
(43:08):
that these are people you knowin my path that I want to be
associated with.
These are the people I want towork with.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Yeah man awesome so getting clear on your values and
learning to embrace authenticityall of a sudden authenticity is
like the high the fancy wordright everybody's talking about
it and I got somebody asked melike well what do you what does
authenticity mean to you JessI'm like look for me it's just
(43:34):
sharing the dirty details like Idon't invest any energy
polishing shit like it's thetruth it's stinky it's ugly it's
great it's awesome it's justwhat it is like I'm not gonna
hide anything I'm not gonnaoverproduce anything like it's
just telling the truth and alsolike you said embracing myself
(43:58):
there are things that I like towear I'm a Hawaiian shirt guy I
like this sort of thing and it'sjust wear that I don't need to
be up have the putton polobutton up because there was a
period in in my career where Ilike oh no I gotta look the part
yeah even though like I wasn't Imean I was living but I felt
(44:19):
like I was living in somebodyelse's skin and that was
suffocating right like it justand the interesting thing is I
was so concerned about standingout that I was suffocating
myself and I was worried aboutstanding out because I thought
if I did I would not haveexperienced the kind of success
(44:40):
that I wanted to experience theinteresting thing is when I
finally said hell with it I'mgonna be me and you don't have
to like me that's when themassive success and amazing
experiences started.
Are you seeing the same thing?
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
Oh yeah oh yeah it's oh here so one of my other
favorite books John GordonEnergy Bus and it's one of my
favorite ones and it is a keycomponent to also be in the
bridge or the middleman is wethere are people who create
energy and there are people whofeed off energy.
(45:16):
Well find out how to be the onewho creates the energy and how
if you walk in a room with 10positive people do you naturally
go positive okay great now ifyou walk in that same room and
there's 10 negative people doyou find yourself you go
negative or are you trying tobrighten the room right that's
(45:40):
what people who are different orembrace who they are you notice
that energy they create that youknow when when everything we
have a we have a core value fromcompany I work with it's embrace
the sock.
Yeah and when you get into thatmoment when everybody goes from
(46:03):
hey things are going great theneverybody starts to drop you can
feel the weight you can just Imean you can almost see the
cloud where everybody's andsomebody sparks it into that
moment where it's almostdysfunctional fun it's good.
SPEAKER_00 (46:20):
Now it's okay what else is it going to rain perfect
bring the rain bring bring itall we're ready and it's who can
do that and as a leader asthat's the bridge as the
middleman that's aresponsibility you have is it's
a light switch even if you'renot feeling it what do I have to
do to show up and be that personfor yeah man and again it's a
(46:47):
choice now getting there is noteasy right I wonder I wondered
this I love the life I'm havinglike it is unimaginable the
experiences I have today but Iwonder would it be possible to
be having the experiences theimpact the influence that I have
without going through all thesucky parts right like I know
(47:10):
for me the answer is no I neededthe sucky parts it's what you
don't get clear and understandbut I always wonder I want like
for my baby brother my nephewsand my nieces can they have the
same level of fulfillment andimpact on the world without all
the sucky without having to gothrough the sucky parts what do
(47:31):
you think you're right creatingthe energy and doing that is
very difficult and it does taketime but I will say if you want
to start somewhere start withgratitude towards the worst
things in your life start withand for two two years now I have
(47:53):
started a what I call agratitude journal.
SPEAKER_01 (47:56):
Every night it is one sentence it's all it takes
down something about how farI've come or thankful for that
miserable time in my lifebecause it put me here I read
that and again it's a choice ofthe narrative you want to tell
yourself.
Yes if you want to change thenarrative from resentment to
(48:17):
gratitude then do it.
SPEAKER_00 (48:19):
And you do it by writing it down making it and
putting it in front of yourselfand reading it out loud and
being there and you will noticethat shift will change yeah 100%
I I've met this guy in the 12step meetings he would say I'm
grateful for everything I haveand everything I don't and I I
(48:42):
like I hear him it was early onin my sobriety path right and so
one day I'm like hey man whatthe hell does that mean what do
you mean you're grateful for thethings that you don't have and
he's oh that's easy man I'mgrateful that I'm not sleeping
in an eight by six room anymore.
I don't have the old bed that Iused to have I'm like why would
(49:05):
you be in an eight by six roomhe's jail I was like oh he's I'm
grateful that I don't have toeat at 7 a.m2pm and 5 p.m every
day whether I like it or not andI then I'm like I understand so
it was his form of beinggrateful for the hard times
(49:26):
because he's a Joel like againof being appreciative of what
the hell you actually have inthe moment.
So the hard times I would sayadd value to the good times.
SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
So maybe the answer maybe I just answered my own
question right without the hardtimes how could I even value
amazingness that I have now oh Ithink you need them there's that
there's that quote pressure is aprivilege you know right to I go
out and I'm blessed to have theopportunity to help a team
(49:57):
through a hard time or come to asolution or help an 18 year old
new hire in the industry lineout a path that gets him whether
it's here whether it's with mewhether it's not that gets him
where he wants to go that's apressure that's I mean that's a
privilege.
I'm grateful for all that I wentthrough this exercise with a lot
(50:18):
of things my dad passed away in20 in 2022 same year that I was
struggling with all a lot yeahand just just earlier this year
I said that's one of the thingsI write down that I'm grateful
for my dad passing away it wasfor a year prior to that he was
in he was in assisted living andthen hospice I drove to see him
(50:43):
four hours every week to see himfor a half hour because it was
during COVID.
So they only gave me 30 minutes.
Yeah we had the bestconversations and connected on a
level that I haven't talked tohim probably ever in my life.
Right here and as sad as it is Idon't know if I ever would have
had that conversation with himif we would have gotten to that
(51:05):
level if that hadn't come.
And so I missed the heck out ofhim and I traded to have him
back in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_00 (51:12):
But I'm thankful for that time that we had to connect
and to give back to the fatherson and not even just friends
you know really understand kindof where he came from yeah man
so there you go folks gratitudebaby it'll change your world and
maybe this I just sound a littlecrazy to some people but when
(51:33):
everything sucks around you thatis a great time to be gratitude
one thing what are you gratefulfor what could you be grateful
for and it'll just startchanging your perspective
changing your energy so that youcan better contribute right
because there's that's whatwe're here for.
SPEAKER_01 (51:49):
We're here to serve others now I'm gonna give you a
heads up I do have a hardquestion but I'm not gonna ask
it yet okay before we get to thehard question if somebody's
interested in this middlemanmindset being a part of the BTG
movement how do they getinvolved where do they go how do
we make that happen well numberone right now so I have been I
(52:13):
started doing I launched BTG in2024 and until then I've just
been kind of working one-on-onewith clients and working with
their teams individually doingthat stuff and I still do that
through one-on-one meetings but2026 I'm looking to launch what
I call the middleman mindsetacademy and it's probably going
to be eventually I want it to beable to be an online program
(52:35):
that people can actually getwork through on their own and
tie into bringing me in.
Also it can be it'll beworkshops that I can provide for
teams in general coupled withone-on-one coaching through the
process.
And then it might also be anoption of just a for those
individually who want to be apart of it or for financial
reasons being able to do a joinan online community that we kind
(52:57):
of once a week an hour or twowhere we go through the steps
and we do it over at 12, 16 weektime period.
Nice.
But the LinkedIn easiest wayeasiest way to do it honestly on
a risk of it all call me 5098997.
Tell me if you want and LinkedInis probably the easiest way
(53:19):
outside of that to get incontact you're welcome to put my
email address on here as wellthat you know we can post that
they can see that the I believethis is needed in this industry
and it's not just thecapabilities of leading
ourselves first.
It's understanding there's theprocess of the academy what we
really kind of work through andoutline is you start with
(53:41):
leading yourself first and thenwe go into the path to becoming
the bridge and it always startsat the fundamentals and nobody
wants to touch the fundamentalsbut we start at the fundamentals
of of what it means to bridgethe gap which is how do I gain
the bigger picture?
How do I understand theperspectives how do I find the
common goal and how do I startto lead people across and then
(54:04):
it dives into the things likecreating energy and how to do it
going into the things that Ibelieve where we severely drop
the ball in this industry whichis how do we set and manage
expectations how do we get ridof assumptions how do we
delegate how do we train and howdo we lead and the only thing
(54:27):
with that as far as leading goesis you lead you get you want to
be led differently than me.
And yes this one size fits allmetric for leadership doesn't
work.
No so there's a basis for how weempower and how we lead and how
we provide an impact but youneed the tools to be able to
discover okay well how do these10 people individually need to
(54:49):
be led and that's kind of whatwe focus on and build through
that.
So that is the in essence thatis the way to do it.
I would love to talk to anybodywhether it's individually or the
ideal thing would be a smallgroup coupled with the
one-on-one coaching inside ofthat.
SPEAKER_00 (55:04):
Wow well and I think you're a hundred percent right
in that it is desperately neededin our industry and it's going
to become more and moreimportant the pain point is just
it's growing and growing becauseas well as I do people are
retiring and leaving theindustry.
So what that also means ispeople are getting promoted
(55:26):
faster than they ever gotpromoted before.
And we're still we mean ourconstruction industry is still
doing a freaking miserable jobat equipping people with the
fundamental skills to lead ateam and you just listed them
right delegation communicationsetting expectations all of
those things it's just kind oflike fairy dust you're just
(55:50):
gonna go well you brought up andyou said I don't think I
directly said it but I meant tosay it and you just brought it
up and I wanted to touch on thatone real quick communication.
SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
I have a love hate relationship with communication
and I tell people that I hatethe word communication because
we use it as a scapegoat.
You hear it in our industryeverybody will say we don't have
we don't communicate we don'thave good communication we don't
okay well what's the definitionof communication it's the kind
(56:20):
of information we actually dothat very well probably better
than any industry.
We send emails and text messageslike no end we pass information
great yeah we miss effectivecommunication is do you
understand what I'm saying sothat you can effectively take it
and help your team understandabout building that and when you
(56:43):
talk about the youngergeneration to the older I'm a
true believer in the nextgeneration I believe they're
gonna do great things in thisindustry contrary to a lot of
what a lot of people say theywant to frickin' work they they
just need to be led differentlybut they grew up in a generation
full of text message full oftech and old school wins in
(57:08):
communication and this is myopinion I don't care if it's
biased I'm gonna say it oldschool wins face-to-face
communication trumps anything ifyou can figure out how to do it
and how to navigate aconversation that's
uncomfortable or where you don'thave the confidence but you're
still willing to go in and haveit yes that's a big part of what
(57:31):
we coach as well is how tophysically go through those
conversations and how to tell 27year old project manager how do
you lead the 65 year oldsuperintendent.
No on paper they're contrary towhat the stigmas might tell you
they put PMs up here but they'renot field to PM it's a lateral
(57:54):
move it's just a different sideof the team but age wise you're
gonna go take somebody a year ortwo in and put them up against
some guy 40 years his senior inthe seniority category you don't
get to speak to him the same wayyou would talk to a 27 year old
it's yes you have to learn howto speak or how you communicate
(58:15):
and tell your owner that youdon't agree because agreeing is
going to do nothing but buildassumptions and lead to that so
how do you actually navigateconversations with the owner
where you disagree andor thecustomer where you disagree
respectfully it's being kind notnice.
SPEAKER_00 (58:33):
Yeah oh yeah that that own two things and I'm with
you on the communication thingwe're experts and making mouth
noise and calling itcommunication but if the person
didn't receive communication didnot happen and I think even more
importantly as a leader if youcan't listen and all you do is
(58:55):
make mouth noise that's why yourpeople are saying we have a
communication problem becausepart of communication is
freaking listening.
SPEAKER_01 (59:05):
I got a question for you I got a question you said
receiver shares the burden ofthe responsibility in your
opinion opinion when it comes toeffective communication is it
the sender or is it thereceiver?
SPEAKER_00 (59:18):
Me and so let me expand.
When I am communicating thatlike I need to give a directive
or share some information updatewhatever it is my owners my
responsibility to ensure thatthey understood what the
deliverable needs to look likewhat the timeframe is and that
we're clear on that they havethe resources necessary to
(59:42):
fulfill the request that's myjob.
Now when I'm the receiver it ismy responsibility to say wait a
minute I know you said you wantthis when do you want it what
are the like the distinguishingfactors of the deliverable that
you want from me what does goodlook like to you so that I can
fulfill that and so for me it'sa hundred percent ownership
(01:00:05):
thing to own it on both ends.
But now I will give a leader andwhen I say leader I mean
somebody that has formalauthority in the organization if
they at the very least own theresponsibility of securing a
commitment having a timelineassociated with that and
verifying that the individualclearly understands what the
(01:00:27):
deliverable or the end result issupposed to look like if they've
done that they win.
In terms of like the receivingpart and this is I'm giving
people a pass just because ofthe conditioning that we've had
in our industry if they justshut up and listen a little bit
they get an A plus for mebecause it there's so few people
that listen if that have formalauthority that listen worth the
(01:00:50):
shit.
And that's part of because ourindustry says you're the leader
you got to have the answer yougive direction you and so people
have been conditioned to alwaysbe moving their mouth and so if
they just move their mouth lessI give them a thumbs up but
there's a lot of we listen tospeak rather than listen to hear
you got it.
That's exactly right so that'smy answer I may be a little
(01:01:11):
rigid on it but that's where Ilove it.
I love it.
Awesome man okay well dude thishas been amazing and I'm excited
for your answer to the finalquestion because I'm nervous I'm
I'm a little scared it's easyman you've had some serious life
experience that most peoplewon't even talk about and not
(01:01:33):
Only did you talk, do you talkabout it, but you've built this
whole system to help otherpeople avoid that or at least
work through that?
And so, because of that, I getthe sense that your answer is
gonna be pretty damn awesome.
And so here we go.
What is the promise you areintended to be?
What is the promise I amintended to be?
SPEAKER_01 (01:01:57):
I mean, it is the only because I believe in it so
much, I've got to say I'mintended to be the bridge.
I'm intended to be that person.
And it sounds corny when I saidit.
I started saying it two yearsago.
I believe God put me on thisearth to be that bridge, to make
an impact.
(01:02:17):
And it was hard to admit that.
I mean, it wasn't it's easy tosay it, it's hard to allow
yourself to truly believe it andfeel it.
And James Clear talks about it alot in atomic habits of
identity.
You and I use a big portion ofthat of what he talks about in
(01:02:38):
there is a big portion ofleading yourself first, and
because it starts the ABCs,awareness, belief, and
compassion.
That's what I call the ABCs of abulletproof mindset.
Okay, you get the awareness, andthen it comes down to who am I
truly meant to be?
Who am I truly meant to be?
And you have that picture andsay, okay, I'm meant to be, I'm
(01:03:00):
meant to help people.
I'm built for more than justbeing this person.
Okay, well, now instead ofsaying I want to be that person,
no, I am that person.
Now I it's who I am, it's myidentity.
I am the bridge, I am the coach,I am the leader, I am the
husband I'm supposed to be, I amthe father I'm supposed to be.
(01:03:22):
And if you can shape thatidentity and learn to talk
compassionately to yourself,we're our own worst enemies
every time we beat ourselves upnonstop.
That if you can learn to giveyourself a little bit of grace,
like you would maybe a friend ifthey came to you in a struggle,
you know, you'll find thatyou'll work towards that path.
(01:03:43):
Once you have those things, youcan work towards that path.
And it starts with identity ofwho I am.
This is who I am, this is mypromise to me.
I'm there, I'm that person.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:53):
Yes, 10, 4.
I knew it, man.
Gangster, I love it, dude.
Did you have fun?
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:00):
I had a great time, man.
Oh, I could I could keep going.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:03):
Yeah, I know it.
We took we're talking aboutcommunication and identity.
Oh, these are all subjects thatI love to nerd out about, man.
This is good stuff.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:12):
I love it.
I loved it.
I appreciate it, man.
I appreciate it, brother.
This has been absolutelyfantastic.
Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:18):
Thank you for sticking it out all the way to
the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on.
And in appreciation for the giftof time that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book, Becoming
the Promise You're Intended toBe.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
(01:04:39):
There's a link in there.
You just click that but and youcan download the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate.
You sharing that increases thelikelihood that it's going to
help one more person.
(01:04:59):
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be.
Be kind to yourself, be cool,and we'll talk at you next time.
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