May 29, 2025 • 63 mins
Emotional intelligence pioneer Brent Darnell takes us through his remarkable 25-year journey transforming the construction industry's approach to people. With disarming honesty and profound insights, he reveals how human connection stands at the core of solving our industry's most pressing challenges—from mental health crises to workforce development struggles.
"It goes beyond just being a better leader or a better manager of a construction process," Brent explains. "They become better human beings." This powerful truth underlies his revolutionary work, which began in 2000 when introducing emotional intelligence training to skeptical construction professionals was considered radical. Having superintendents practice yoga and meditation seemed outlandish then, but Brent persisted, eventually proving how these practices enhance performance while reducing personal wear and tear.
The conversation highlights how our industry has evolved from purely adversarial relationships to more collaborative approaches, creating an urgent need for the very skills Brent champions. As he shares the story of a superintendent who transformed from being removed from a project to becoming COO in just ten months through emotional intelligence training, we witness the tangible power of this work.
Most compelling is Brent's exploration of how the "respect for people" pillar of Lean construction remains overlooked despite its critical importance. His practical advice for building better connections—daily application, reflection, and self-awareness—offers listeners actionable steps toward immediate improvement in their professional and personal lives.
Visit brentdarnell.com for free emotional intelligence assessments, body battery inventories, and resources that can help you become a better leader and human being. What construction challenges might you solve by improving your emotional intelligence and human connection skills?
Connect with Brent at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentdarnell/
Make yourself a priority and get more done: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing
Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It goes beyond just being a better leader or a
better manager of a constructionprocess.
They become better human beings.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is going on?
L&m family Back again.
And I got to tell you I'm alittle extra, extra jazz, maybe
even starstruck, because theguest we have today.
I was having flashbacks inpreparation for this
conversation when I decided tolike quit my real job and not
wear pants every day.
Several people said you need totalk to this guy Like this.
(00:34):
It sounds like this is whatyou're doing and I'm like well,
who is he?
And all today it came back oh,this is Brent.
This is the guy everybody wastelling me about.
So I'm super, super stoked.
He is an OG, like the OG onpeople issues in the AEC space
architect, engineer,construction, like all of that.
(00:55):
When it comes to people.
He has been playing this gamesince before it was like a
popular thing which is super,super interesting, and then you
might be thinking like peopleissues.
We talk about people issues,talking about mental stuff that
has something to do with people,physical stuff, people and
(01:16):
emotional stuff and not juststuff, but like performance,
mental performance, physicalperformance and emotional
performance.
He's been at it for a very longtime.
I'm just a little scrub, alittle squinkly, trying to
tinker around in this space andI'm like over the moon that I
get to interview him andintroduce you guys out there to
mr brent.
Mr brent darnell, and before weget into that, if this is your
(01:40):
first time here, this is theLearnings and Missteps podcast,
where you get to meet amazinghuman beings just like you who
are sharing their gifts andtalents to leave this world
better than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are going to get to
know Mr Brent Darnell.
(02:01):
Mr Brent, how are you, myfriend?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Doing great Things are awesome Probably better than
I deserve.
Life is good.
I'm loving what I'm doing.
I'm really seeing that theindustry is catching up now and
really focusing on all thepeople stuff and I think it's
because it kind of bit us in thebutt a little bit with mental
(02:23):
health stuff and substance usedisorders and workforce
development and even thatdiversity and equity and those
kind of things.
I think those are all the peopleissues and I think we sort of
shoved them under the carpet forthe longest time.
And now they're like they'recrises, and now we're really
starting to pay attention.
(02:44):
I mean, that that's my take onit.
Maybe I got it all wrong, butthat's my take on it brand.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I agree a hundred percent.
Here's what I see happening.
We can't just throw money atthe problem anymore, and by
problem I mean the peopleproblem, right, the shortage of
people let's forget aboutbringing people in Taking care
of, appreciating and valuing thepeople that we have is a
(03:11):
problem, and the volume of workthat's available right now is I
mean, it just keeps gettingbigger and things need to go
faster.
And then there's this thing,brent, that you probably read
about it, spoken it, spokenabout and seen it a bunch of
times.
Everybody knew that at thistime, like this decade, the baby
(03:32):
boomers were going to beleaving the industry.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, and we're now yeah, it wasn't a big shock.
We sort of knew this was comingright for a decade.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
and now it's what happened to all the experience,
bro, it's been happening for along time, yeah, and so because
you have all of these things,and then you know what, maybe
what couldn't have been foresawis the dwindling number of
people that want to come in tothe industry and and the like
you said, the substance abuse,suicide, like people not staying
(04:07):
in the industry, or rathertheir lives deteriorating
because of the conditions in theindustry, like it's the perfect
storm for companies, decisionmakers to say, oh crap, we got
to do it different.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think it's so true, and I've boiled it down to all
of these the root cause to me ishuman connection.
Human connection so that's whatI've been focusing on the last
couple of years is how do weconnect better as human beings?
And that involves all kinds ofthings Great listening, great
communication, respect, trust ofthings.
(04:47):
Great listening, greatcommunication, respect, trust
just really getting in the shoesof the other person,
understanding them in a profoundway.
And then that connection leadsto so many other things.
They feel safe, they feel likethey belong, they feel like
they're part of something biggerthan themselves, they feel
respected.
And when you get all that goingon, plus, you want to sprinkle
on top, just make their livesbetter.
And when you get all that goingon plus, you want to sprinkle
on top, just make their livesbetter.
(05:07):
Why would you go anywhere else?
Why would you go to any othercompany or any other industry
when you have that?
Why would you risk that?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yes, I have a theory and right now everybody, every
company, every single one, isoffering competitive pay and
benefits.
Right, that's back when I was,I just got my journeyman license
and TD Industries had starteddoing work here in San Antonio.
(05:37):
This was back in 1999, probablyand the big draw was they had
benefits.
That was a big deal, becausenobody really subcontractors
didn't really have benefits.
They had some, maybe vacationor something, but they had all
the benefits.
That's not a thing anymore.
Everybody has them.
(05:57):
Everybody's offeringcompetitive pay, everybody's
offering benefits.
From their perspective Maybeit's not competitive, but from
the employer's perspective it isright.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And so my theory is this is the decision makers, the
influencers in thoseorganizations that figure out
how to demonstrate, like yousaid, appreciation and invest in
the human being beyond theirjob description.
Yeah, they're going to win thetalent game.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, For all the companies that don't do it.
People are going to be leavingtheir companies and going to
these companies that do this andyou wonder why don't they get
that and why don't they investin that?
But they don't.
This guy, Wally Adamczyk, whodoes a lot of the same stuff.
We were having this discussion.
We struggle with relevanceevery day, Like we get the
(06:49):
feeling sometimes that 90% ofthe contractors out there just
think we're total idiots anddon't know what we're doing and
this is total, a waste of timeand a bunch of crap and why are
we even talking about this?
So we struggle with that aboutonce a week, right.
But then you see the peoplethat are doing it, you see the
companies that are doing it andthe people you're working with
(07:10):
and the results and that kind ofkeeps us going right.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, you see the impact and it puts fuel in your
tank like, okay, let me goagainst the friction.
Well, and so that's today, in2025.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
You started over 20 years ago down this path 2000
was the first program I didwhere we looked at emotional
intelligence.
We had these guys up and doingyoga every morning, yoga,
meditation.
You should have seen it, man.
It was so funny.
They would walk in the room atthe hotel and it would be like
(07:44):
kind of dark and there'd be somemusic playing and they would go
back out and look and think isthis the right place?
What is this?
Why are we doing this?
They did this stuff and theyfelt the difference and they did
some basic breathing andmeditation and stuff.
(08:05):
It was really effective forthem as a miraculous.
And some didn't want to admitthat they did yoga.
So they would say, hey, I thinkthis yoga is a bunch of crap.
And I'd say, well, it's okay,it's not for everybody.
He said, yeah, but thatbreathing, the breathing stuff
really helps me.
I said, well, don't do yoga,just do that, just do the
breathing stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I love it.
That's hilarious, yes.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Whatever you need to practice, bro, just do that and
since then I've gotten my yogateacher certification.
So I'm a certified instructornow.
Not that I'm going to teach,but I just wanted to do a little
bit more with my own practiceand deepen my practice.
But it really gave me a lot ofinsights into an in-depth view
(08:49):
of yoga and what it can do foryou physically, mentally,
emotionally.
It's not for everybody, I tellpeople.
If you don't like it, that'scool, but find your yoga,
whatever that is.
It could be walking in nature,it could be listening to music,
it could be silence, it could befishing.
It could be listening to music,it could be silence, it could
be fishing, it could be huntingSomething that restores you in
some way.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Find what yours is.
Yeah, so 25 years ago I mean,that's an interesting time and
I'm referring to like my frameof reference.
I see people nowadays every nowand then when I'm doing my work
, people look at me like, areyou okay?
Yeah, why You're not the sameguy I knew 15 years ago.
(09:32):
Right, a little bit Now.
Two things are pinging in myhead.
One is why did you go down thispath?
What was it that triggered youto go down this path 25 years
ago?
The other thing that's pingingaround in there is how hard was
it back then compared to now?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So I was working for Skanska at the time in Atlanta
and they had this leadershipprogram.
That was an internationalprogram.
Skanska was buying a bunch ofinternational companies at the
time and they said they wantedan American to run it.
So I threw my hat in that ringand I ran this program that was
an international program.
Skotska was buying a bunch ofinternational companies at the
time and they said they wantedan American to run it.
So I threw my hat in that ringand I ran this program for a
couple of years and then at theend of the two years they said
well, we're sort of done withthis program, we're going to do
(10:16):
something different.
Go back to Atlanta.
And I went back to Atlanta andI said, hey, man, I've learned
all this great stuff aboutleadership and training and
development and all this stuff.
I want to do that here.
And they went we don't needthat crap, why would we do that
here?
We're fine, yeah, we're good,we don't need it, but thank you
for offering.
And then they said but we wantyou to go back and manage
(10:38):
projects again.
So they said there's agymnasium at a high school, we
want you to project manage.
And I just I could not getexcited about that after doing
this international program fortwo years.
It was a five-week programspread throughout the year.
We were in places like BuenosAires and Moscow and Prague and
London and New York.
(11:00):
And it was like wow, and so itwas a great program.
So I decided at the time I justsaid no, thank you, I don't
want to manage projects again,I'm going to start my own
business and do this stuff forreal.
And they just went yeah, goodluck with that yeah.
I said you'll be crawling backbegging to manage a gymnasium in
Albany.
Georgia, georgia.
(11:22):
And it was tough in thebeginning because I tried to be
everything to everybody.
I tried to do environmentalconsulting.
I was a lead accreditedprofessional and wrote the
environmental management systemfor Skotska in Atlanta.
So I had a lot of environmentalstuff.
I tried to do a bunch ofdifferent stuff and I tried all
industries.
I tried IT and accounting,really yeah, and I was getting
(11:45):
some work, but nothing reallytook off until I said, look,
this is what I'm doing Emotionalintelligence and all those
critical people skills with afocus on performance for the
construction industry.
That's it.
When I did that, things startedtaking off.
I started getting some traction.
I had companies that say wewant to do that here.
(12:07):
So I just kept building thatresume, working with different
companies, really figuring outhow this really works, because
the first time I did it forcompanies, I would come in for a
day, we'd do the emotionalintelligence training, they'd
take the evaluations and I'd go.
Now you're totally magicallyhealed.
You're now great with people.
Thank you very much.
Mic drop and I'm out.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's time for the L&M family member shout out.
And this one goes to my buddy,mr Brian Melcher.
He was gracious enough inletting me victimize him and his
team with some trainingcommunication capabilities AKA
emotional bungee jumpers and hesent me this message.
He says, bro, your training ismaking a difference.
(12:53):
Thanks for being willing tocome out and spend the time with
us.
Have a great week.
So I got to go to Phoenix andhang out with them for a couple
of days and with the FieldVerify crew Amazing human beings
out there also in theconstruction space and folks.
If you get a chance to leave acomment, do a share, leave a
review.
You know I love them because Ilove attention and it gives me
(13:16):
the opportunity to shout you outin the future.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And that just didn't work at all.
So we started saying, well,what does work?
So we started extending thetime and we put out six months
and then to eight months andthen to nine months and then a
full year, and then we addedaccountability, partners within
the groups, and then we addedindividual coaching and follow
up, and so the more we kept sortof doing these iterations of
(13:44):
programs, they got better andbetter, and so that's how it
evolved.
And in the beginning it washard.
25 years ago people it wasmostly hard bid, it was mostly
adversarial, siloed, even withincompanies, siloed and
(14:04):
adversarial, and people didn'teven think about like how could
we do this in a different way?
Lean was a gleam in someone'seye.
I mean, that was 10 yearsbefore lean right, those guys
started in the early nineties orlate eighties, something like
that.
So that was just gettingstarted.
Design build was in its infancyCM, cm, at risk, all those
(14:26):
collaborative project deliverymethods were just not very well
established, so people didn'tneed these skills.
But then when they startedgetting the traction, then
everybody said, wow, this is adifferent set of skills, we need
to make these successful.
So then that got more traction.
So then it just kept buildingand I believe the industry
(14:47):
started changing.
And then they looked at me andsaid, hey, this is what we need
right now.
So that's when things startedevolving and gelling and taking
off.
It's been such a great thing tosee the industry doing those
shifts and changes.
I'm sure you've seen thosechanges as well.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Right, I mean, I've lived it.
Brett, I was a pretty good,we'll say, elbows and boots is
how we got work done.
I know for a fact that when Iwas a foreman and a
superintendent for a mechanicalcontractor, there wasn't one
client, one superintendent,project manager team for a GC
(15:30):
that loved me, manager team fora GC that loved me, and it was.
You remember the cartoon withFoghorn, leghorn and the dog.
They would fight.
They were the big rooster andthe big dog.
They'd clock out and then theywere buddies.
It's kind of how I like.
Okay, I'm going to go to thisjob and I'm going to be fighting
with Tommy today, and, okay,what are we going to fight about
(15:51):
?
Okay, I want to fight aboutthis and see what he went.
I went battle ready in mymindset.
Yeah, it never occurred to methat, like collaboration and
communication and like thatwould be a value, because I got
there first and if I get therefirst I win.
Period.
Yeah, yeah, and so I've beenable.
(16:11):
Now I'm fortunate in that Iwork.
I got lucky on the jobs that Ihad and the people that I got to
work with in those jobs,because they influenced me.
To look at it.
There's a different way, itdoesn't have to be this hard.
And so by the time I startedlike applying the lean stuff and
like getting beyond myself andthinking more about the team and
(16:34):
the organization and theindustry, I was not in the field
anymore and it was like, man, Icould have had so many friends.
I didn't have friends.
Yeah, like on the job site.
I didn't have friends becauseif you couldn't, if I couldn't
get anything out of you, Ididn't need you, period.
And like now, I know there's alot of our brethren out there
(16:57):
that still operate in that mode,but I was not.
I was not proud or happy of theguy that I was, but it was what
I had to do to perform andexcel in the role.
That was my frame anyways.
So it was taxing on meemotionally, mentally,
spiritually, and I had no here'sthe thing Like I had no idea.
(17:19):
That's just the way it is or theway it works, and so over time
I've gotten a little bit better.
But well, I mean go ahead.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
That's one of the selling points.
To superintendents I say howwould you like to be more
effective with a lot less wearand tear on you?
Man boom yeah, they go hell,yeah, I want that.
It's this people stuff thatthat will allow you to do that.
Your job will be easier.
It's a lot less wear and tearon you.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's just exhausting having to kick everybody's ass
every day yes, that's the thingpeople don't know fighting, and
it don't matter if it's likefighting, fighting like hands,
fist, kicks, knees, elbows, orfighting mentally or verbally,
you still get hit.
Yeah, win or lose, it stillhurts either way you leave stuff
(18:10):
on the field.
So, over that time particularly, I'm really curious about the
2000, because I remember thatwas kind of it was rare, I mean
ultra, ultra, ultra rare to havea GC that was even doing some
version of pole planning and itwas seen as like this foo-foo,
(18:31):
la-la stuff that didn't make us,they're just making us do it.
It was the flavor of the month25 years ago.
Now what I'm curious about isof the folks that you've worked
with in terms of what you wantedto deliver, like the experience
or the transformation youwanted to spark in somebody, the
(18:56):
transformation you wanted tospark in somebody, and what you
actually got to see, or seewitness glimpses of what.
What's that like back then?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
well for me, like part of it was self-healing.
I call myself a recovering jerk, right?
I mean I'm a mechanicalengineer, brain, technical
person, smartest guy in the room, just a jerk Just putting down
everybody.
You're stupid, you're an idiot.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Whenever?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I could to put them down and put them in their place
.
Probably a lot of insecurityrevolving around that as well.
But so part of this was my ownjourney of just healing myself
with this.
So when I saw the results thatI was getting and then saw the
results that others were getting, it goes beyond just being a
better leader or a bettermanager of a construction
(19:44):
process.
They become better human beings, and better human beings make
better employees.
I don't know why people don'tget that, because early I would
say but this guy's a better dad,he's a better husband, and they
go.
We don't give a crap.
Who cares if he's a betterhusband.
I work with this one guy.
He's in Mexico, his name isGabriel and he was typical alpha
(20:10):
superintendent.
50 years old ass kicker wasasked to be removed from a
project.
His own team didn't want towork with him.
So he worked on humanconnection, being a better team
player, working on his empathy.
And he calls me about halfwaythrough this process and he says
I got a problem with my niece,can you help me?
And I said I'm sure, especiallyif it has to do with your.
(20:32):
I'm not a counselor or anything.
He said well, she's moved inwith us because she just got
divorced and she lost her joband she has a pain in the ass
and we really hate her.
We're about to kick her out andshe's telling us how to run our
lives.
And so I'm doing this on Skype,right, and I said, well.
I said well, wow.
So, as he's telling that, he'ssaying, well, she lost her job,
(20:53):
she got a divorce, she can'tafford her own place, his face
does this.
His face lights up and he goes.
She feels bad about herself,doesn't she?
What's that?
That's empathy.
That's working on.
Yes, I said, well, what are yougoing to do?
And he said, well, we're goingto just tell her we love her and
support her.
And at the end of this coachingthing he said, wow, she's doing
(21:15):
great, she's dating someone,she's looking for her own place,
she has a job.
We were just really supportiveof her.
And I always ask people doesthat make him a better
superintendent?
Well, hell, yes, it does,because now he has the empathy,
understands his people better,he can motivate them better, he
(21:36):
can support them better, they'regoing to trust him more.
It all works together.
And, by the way, this guy wentfrom being removed from a
project to COO in 10 months.
Oh yeah, because I'm working onthe people side of this thing
and I saw him as a leader right.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Because he can connect and influence people
like that.
Okay, yes, yes and yes.
So you've mentioned connectionand empathy.
How do you do it?
How does a person do connectionand empathy?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Well, it's a process.
It's not like cognitivelearning.
It's not like a spreadsheet orhow to do a budget or a schedule
.
It's more like learning to playa musical instrument or
learning a language.
It takes place in differentparts of your brain so it takes
a lot of repetition.
We've got an activity guide andworkbook that has tons of ways
(22:29):
to develop things like empathyor any emotional competence.
But the trick is dailyapplication, daily reflection.
You got to apply that daily.
So, for empathy, maybe part ofthat is just asking people how
are you doing today?
And then follow that up with no, really, how are you doing
today?
And get them to start sharingthat and then think about okay,
(22:51):
did I get it right?
Because it looked like to me hewas really stressed today.
Yeah, I'm kind of stressedtoday.
Well, that's a greatreinforcement.
So then you reflect on okay, Igot that.
I'm starting to be able todiscern the emotional states and
people around me.
So you apply it daily, youreflect daily and then you just
keep getting better and havinglittle nudges of insights.
(23:19):
It's self-reinforcing behavior.
You could even I mean you coulddo it just like an engineer
would do it.
Say, scale it one to 10.
How are you doing today?
Give me a number and then think, okay, I had it wrong.
Maybe I'm thinking I'm seeinghim as a two or a three and he
says he's an eight or a nine.
So I got to work on that.
I'm going to be a little morein tune with that.
You get this progression offirst it starts with
self-awareness.
Once you get that pretty good,then you start recognizing those
(23:40):
things in others and then guesswhat?
Your relationships startgetting better and just start
with relationships.
You got to start with your ownself-awareness, if that's what
needs to work right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So I want to dive into self-awareness, because my
brain does twisted things witheverything, not everything.
There's some things that I'lljust split hairs to the nth
degree, and self-awareness isone of those.
So what I'm looking for is likea status check.
No, jesse, you're nuts when Ithink of self-awareness.
I don't think of self-awarenessin terms of what triggers me
(24:15):
when I'm in a good mood, how Ibehave, what I'm thinking, what
I value.
I think of self-awareness interms of recognizing how the way
I show up causes people torespond in a particular way
(24:37):
respond in a particular way.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, am I too far?
No, you're spot on, becausethat's what informs the
self-awareness, because it'sdiscerning how you're coming
across to others, and so, andwhat you develop over time is
the ability to pivot in realtime.
So if you're coming across andyou see the reaction, which is,
again, empathy and it's not thereaction you're looking for,
(24:58):
then you can pivot a little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
And that creates that ability to connect, no matter
what's going on, because you maycome in pretty hot and you get
the oh crap, I'm coming inreally hot, and then you back it
down and then you just shift alittle bit and then you get a
different reaction and that allhappens in real time.
The ability to do that, quitefrankly, it's just not our best
(25:23):
thing, because that's prettygood honed emotional awareness
and emotional management.
And that takes, it's a skillyou can learn, it takes practice
, it takes coaching, it takesfollow-up, it takes reflection.
It takes it.
It's a skill you can learn, ittakes practice, it takes
coaching, it takes follow up, ittakes reflection, it takes
application.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
But over time, man, I mean what a skill that is Right
experiences I'm having, andwhat I mean by that is like the
relationships, the caliber ofpeople that are in my life, the
work that I get to do, theplaces I get, or like the things
I get invited to collaborate onor contribute to Credentially.
I have no business doing thosethings, but because I like to
(26:07):
connect with people and Ifigured out and I full
disclosure it's not because I'mthis super sweet guy, I was
highly manipulative.
So I learned how to manipulatemy behavior to get what I wanted
from people and I used that ina very selfish, self-destructive
way for a lot of years.
It's like the same cues that Idid, that I used for
(26:32):
manipulating people that I cansee now, pay attention to now to
understand like, oh, this ishow I'm affecting them or this
is what they value.
So maybe I should have justtweak whatever I need to tweak
and I think it's helped people.
Well, I say help, maybe theappropriate word is tricked
people into thinking I havesomething to offer.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Well, I'm going to totally challenge what you just
said.
I think you're right where youneed to be, and the people that
you're coming into contact withnow are the people that you
needed to meet.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Agreed Right.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And so this is just the next step in your evolution
as a consultant, as somebodywho's helping a lot of people.
It's evolving into what itneeds to be, and you use
everything that you have in thecurrent moment, of all the stuff
that brought you up to thatmoment.
So you're right where you needto be and you're meeting the
(27:34):
people that you need to meet,and I always talk to people that
are doing what you're doing andsay thank God, you're doing
this, the need is great.
I was working for the Corps ofEngineers and this general said
son, you've found yourself nowin a target-rich environment
Emotional intelligence for theseengineer and military guys, and
(27:57):
so we've got a target richenvironment.
There's no competition here.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
None.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
The need is great and I'm so happy that you're doing
what you're doing, becauseyou're making the industry
better.
Yeah, by doing what you'redoing.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Thank you, brent, I appreciate that and agree and
agree.
It's interesting you said theneed is so great because there
are some folks that I've comeacross that are in the same
business as us and they're kindof standoffish and guard him
like bro, for real, I cannothandle, I don't want all the
(28:33):
business.
Yeah, and I, you cannot handleall the business, I cannot
handle all the business.
So why are we like, if youdon't want to play, it's cool,
but like we could really dosomething awesome if we just had
a discussion about a point,something.
But they treat it anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
it's a mentality, right mentality right, scarcity,
yeah, scarcity or abundance.
I'm really an abundant thinkerand I've always been, and I give
a lot of stuff away.
Yeah, well, mainly sometimesbecause I'm just a poor
businessman, but most of thetime it's just because I want to
help people.
Yes, and they'll say, can youhelp me with this?
And I'll say, yeah, what do youneed?
(29:12):
And I'll give you what you need.
If I can give it to you fornothing, I'll give it to you for
nothing.
That doesn't bother me at all.
The money will come.
The money will come whenever itneeds to come.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, the money's easy, brent, and I've discovered
, like worst comes to worst, Ican sell pictures of my feet
online, of my feet online, likemoney's easy.
Yeah, exactly, that's not aproblem, but that may not be the
best way to serve the industryright now.
That's what I'm trying to crack.
Oh, my goodness.
(29:42):
Okay, so you mentioned Lean.
We've kind of thrown that outthere.
You got to see it in itsinception and I've seen some
recent stuff on LinkedIn latelyabout the human side of lean.
What is that?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Well, we're doing a session Friday at the local lean
thing here in Atlanta and it'sall about the.
I call it the forgotten pillar.
It's the respect for people,continual improvement, respect
for people.
And if you look at, words,don't they?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Doesn't that mean, they're doing it?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
It kills me because people think of lean as a
process.
It is so not a process.
It's a total philosophy culture, and it takes decades to build
that culture, that lean culture.
And people want the quick fix.
And, oh, let's just do poolplanning.
And we really won't do poolplanning.
We'll just take our P6 and makesticky notes out of it and put
(30:39):
it on the wall.
That's lean, right?
No, not really.
And they don't listen to theirtrades.
They don't even do the big roomthe way it should be done.
Everybody should be in thatroom and everybody should be
having input into that process.
And the guys with tools intheir hands here's the other
thing I always say is those arethe only guys who are creating
(31:01):
value on that project.
And they want to argue with me.
No, I'm a project manager, Icreate value.
No, you don't.
I'm sorry the value creators.
We're talking about the respectfor the people with tools in
their hands that are creatingthe value and asking for their
input.
And then again, that all comesdown to emotional intelligence
of things like empathy andself-awareness, and how you show
(31:23):
up in an emotional way in thosepool planning sessions and in
that environment where lean iswhat you're trying to achieve.
And if you've got a Toyota infact there was this big lean
like a manufacturing lean thing90% of their sessions were on
(31:44):
the people stuff.
What does that tell you?
It isn't a process.
It isn't about sticky notes.
It isn't about improving aprocess just so we'll get a
couple extra dollars at the endof it.
It's a philosophy thateverybody has input into that
process.
Everybody is valued, everybodyis respected.
(32:05):
And then you start.
When you get that in place,then the magic starts to happen.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
yeah, a hundred percent.
That's the one contributingfactor that I can put my finger
on is like the rate of adoptionor growth is relative to that
project leader's depth ofhumility.
Yeah, if they can disengagefrom I gotta get the job done to
maybe employ some facilitatorskills, yeah, they'll have a
(32:38):
better pull plan.
If they can't, if they don'thave the facilitation skill,
they're going to translate theP6 schedule on the sticky notes
and put on the one.
Waste everybody's time.
Yeah, so like it has to happen.
Now what's interesting is you'veseen it.
I've been able to go all overthe country and just see over
and over again where people areattempting to do the thing in
(33:02):
the most clinical way andcompletely ignoring and I think
they don't know, completelyignoring the social element, the
social value of the differenttools that they're trying to use
.
And so why do you think that isso pervasive in our industry?
That folks discount Maybethey're ignorant, they don't
(33:28):
know keeps us from realizing.
Rather, it helps us sanitizeout all the human, social
elements of this philosophy.
What do you think of?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
it.
I think it's the pressure ofexecuting the work I mean that's
the base on every project, youget the work done.
Well, the idea of going slow togo fast, creating that
uninterrupted workflow, it'sjust a foreign concept.
It doesn't make any sense,right yeah, and it doesn't.
(34:02):
If you just say, hey, we needto slow down, they're going no,
and we get this greatuninterrupted workflow.
For this section of work we'regoing to finish early.
But it's hard to wrap your headaround because if there's any
(34:23):
work that could be executed andput in place, you just go do it
To hell.
With sequence of work and whoyou're hog-tying and any of that
.
It's just oh, we got a bunch ofcrap on the floor, let's get it
up in the air, okay, well, butwhy don't we talk to the people
before the work and the peopleafter the work and get this flow
(34:44):
of work?
No, and again, they've got aschedule.
They've got probably a P6 orsome kind of automated kind of
schedule and they say we're justgoing to go with the schedule.
Well've got probably a P6 orsome kind of automated kind of
schedule and they say we're justgoing to go with the schedule.
Well, I found that if youreally dig into and really do
some good pool planning, youknow milestone pools and then,
(35:06):
phase pools.
You're going to cut a bunch ofwork out of that six schedule
because they padded the crap outof it.
And, believe me, you call sometrade partner and you say how
long is it going to take to dothis?
What are they going to tell you?
They're pulling the number outof their butt anyway, so they're
going to pad that.
So you've got all this paddednumbers.
The real numbers are when youdo the actual pull planning get
everybody involved, geteverybody's input.
(35:27):
That's where the real numbersstart.
And when you do that you'regoing to probably take.
We found that like from facepull to six-week look ahead,
you're going to cut out at least10 or 20 percent.
Easy, Just from people talkingto each other.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
If you create the conditions for people to
communicate, you're spot onRight, because if there's no,
when that dialogue is absentit's going to be what it's
always been.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, exactly yeah, I think you're spot on.
That's that's the key to thatis getting people comfortable
with each other, trusting eachother, saying, hey, that's a
bunch of crap, I need two daysto do this, or I can do that in
a day and a half, whereas ifthey could do it in a day and a
half but they have three daysand they don't trust you,
they're just going to keep theirmouth shut and say, yeah, so
(36:17):
that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
You just nailed it.
Like when I'm coaching folks ondoing it, I'm like look, the
first one, your first pull plan,is going to suck.
It's going to be clumsy, it'sgoing to be clunky, it's going
to be uncomfortable.
People are not going to makereal commitments, people are
going to squirm.
And you're going to hear aboutall the problems.
Why the hell would we want todo that?
(36:39):
Well, because you're going tofind out about the problems
before they impact production,because you're planning before
you start to work, and they'regoing to surface issues.
If you listen, write it down.
Don't bark back, don't accusethem of making excuses.
They're telling you what theyneed to be successful.
(37:01):
You're the GC.
You have the greater influenceand resources and relationships
than they do, so you can helpmake it better.
Listen and they'll tell youmore.
Some people going to overcommityeah, because that's their
nature.
Some people sandbag, becausethat's my nature.
(37:23):
Yeah, and over time, throughthe repetition, they start
building the relationship andthe trust to say, jess, you're
always sandbagging.
You always say you need twoweeks Like for real.
Well, you know.
And so it starts calibratingitself, but not if whoever's
running it, if they cannot, ifthey fail to create the
(37:51):
conditions for people tocommunicate, meaning they listen
more than they talk they're notgoing to get there.
Which brings us again back tothis connection thing that
you're out there making happen,helping people with.
I wonder, what do you think?
Like most of our projects inconstruction, they're six to 18
months long.
I'm sure there's these big megadata centers or big giant
(38:13):
billion dollar developments, butevery it's never the same group
of people, even on those bigbillion dollar, like people,
trades switching it out, right.
So the fact that the projectduration is there's a finite end
to it, I think because of that,we believe that it's okay to
(38:37):
treat people like we're nevergoing to see them again after
this project, but the fact is wewill, yeah.
And so because of the bookendsof start the project, finish the
project, I feel like thatcontributes heavily to the lack
of connection in our industry.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, I think it's true and they'll.
They use it as an excuse,especially for shorter projects.
But I have a chapter in my bookthe people profit connection on
to high performing teams Well,one of the things I suggested
there.
And boy, talk about pushback.
I say why don't we getliterally everybody, every trade
(39:15):
partner, the GC, every vendor,every owner's rep, all the
designers, all the end users,and all go on a resort for a
two-week retreat and get to knoweach other and get to trust
each other and havecommunication with each other.
And everybody does someevaluations and they get
individual coaches to work onsome areas of their life that
(39:38):
they need to work on.
And and I always get that'sinsane, that's crazy.
I'd say why is it so crazy?
Well, who's going to pay forthat?
And I said, well, man, if youdid that on every project, you'd
save that times 10 probably forall the crap you're going to,
you're going to avoid.
So then I say, okay, if youcan't do two weeks, do a week.
(39:59):
If you can't do a week, do aweekend.
If you can't do a weekend, dohalf days, the first month of
the project, but you can findthe time to make those human
connections and get that trustand those relationships down to
where, when you've got problems,everybody jumps in and
everybody helps everybody else.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yes, so valuable, yeah, and I mean, you know that
don't make sense.
Why don't we just keep fightingand screaming and yelling at
each other?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, and we've done that for decades.
And that's the other thing is,I have GCs.
They'll tell me like man, Ican't trust this trade partner.
He just keeps giving me crapnumbers and he's padding his
numbers and I say, why do youthink he does that?
I don't know, maybe it'sbecause you've beaten the crap
out of him for decades and he'sbeen conditioned to give you
(40:48):
some numbers that he can have alittle play with.
Yes, that's why he's not givingyou the real numbers.
It's your fault, it's not hisfault, right, 100%.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I love that you bring that up because it brings up a
real funky situation, becausethere are there's a growing
number and it's growing fast,just not fast enough but there's
a growing number ofsuperintendents, project
executives, pms on the GC sidethat have seen the light.
They're showing appreciationfor people, they're listening.
They're not big softy pushovers, they're just not porcupine out
(41:24):
all the time, right?
And so now what I see them getfrustrated is they get another
trade and that trade is like youdescribed there Whoa, there's a
lot of fluff, they're verystandoffish, they won't make a
commitment, and so what I try toexplain to them is dude, you
got to understand like thesetrade contractors work for GCs
(41:45):
dozens and dozens of GCs everyyear, and you are the exception.
Yeah, the majority of the GCsout there treat people like
garbage and so, because you're aGC, they expect you to treat
them the same way.
That's not your fault, but theydo have some trauma, some
baggage that they're carrying.
(42:06):
Yeah, because of all the dirtbags that they have to work.
And how do I know?
Because I live that life right,like I remember, like when I
first worked, the firstsuperintendent didn't say hey,
man, we're to do this pull planthing.
I need to know, like, how longis it going to take you to do
your tasks.
I'm like what do you mean?
How long can I have yourschedule?
No, no, like for real.
(42:26):
Can you break it up?
And I'm like what do you wantfrom me, dude?
What the hell's wrong with you?
I did it the most foreign thingin the world.
I was like what the hell?
And then I was like, oh, andthen of course, it wasn't easy.
I think we're three weeks intothe system on this project and
they abandoned it.
So we got to do it the way wealways did it.
I was comfortable again, yeah,but it took.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
it's so.
It's so true, and it takes alittle bit of time to develop
that trust that you're not thetypical GC that's going to hold
their feet to the fire or punishthem in some way for a number
that's been given to them.
But once that barrier is broken, man, it's things to start
opening up wide open, and thenit builds on itself.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yes, it's amazing.
It's amazing In my head, thehuman side of Lean was a book.
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I don't know If it is , I need to read it.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Oh, okay, good.
What I found out is that you'vewritten multiple books and I
couldn't even count.
How many books have youproduced?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I've written eight books so far, but also I
couldn't find a good publisherthat I liked.
I had a couple interested andthey wanted 95% and I said, wait
a minute, 95% so I get 5%.
So I started my own publishingcompany.
So I have a publishing companyand we publish people's books
(43:52):
and for people that are havingtrouble getting their books out,
we help them get their booksout.
So I publish through my ownpublishing company and those are
on my website.
I've turned People ProfitConnection into an audio book.
There's eBooks yeah, check themout.
I've even published a BigMama's Country Cookbook.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
I saw that I was like maybe I'm on the wrong website.
I was like maybe I'm on thewrong website.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
When my grandmother died she had this big recipe box
and I've got three brothers andthey said what are we going to
do with this?
I said I'll take it.
So I took it and it sat in acupboard for years and I pulled
it out and it was like not onlywere they great recipes but
they're like family history,because the dishes we would
serve at family reunions andfunerals and things like that.
(44:39):
So I wrote this book and did alittle bit of family history and
I have kind of like I have abunch of characters on my mom's
side of my family, so I put themin there.
And then I didn't have quiteenough recipes.
So I solicited all my cousins,aunts and uncles and said give
me all your favorite recipes.
So this is all Southern cookingbiscuits and gumbo and mostly.
(45:01):
Alabama, Gulf Coast kind ofcooking and fried chicken and
collard greens and cornbread andall those really good things.
So that's what's in the book.
And it's so weird because welook at our sales month to month
for all the books that wepublish and for some reason the
last month Big Mama's CountryCookbook has sold 95 copies in
(45:23):
the last month.
We don't even know who's buyingthem.
And I asked all my cousins Isaid are you guys buying these
books for gifts or something?
They go no, we don't knowwhat's going on, so I don't know
who's buying Big Mama's Country.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Cookbook, but it's our best-selling book this last
month.
Well, we're going to make surewe have a link in the show notes
so that we can keep sellingthem Big Mama's Cookbook and
maybe sometime in the future youcan tell me the secret, because
one I do not enjoy.
Rather, I love that I got acouple of books out there, yeah
you got some I've read yourbooks.
Thank you, I love your books.
(46:01):
Oh my God, that's amazing.
Thanks for telling me.
The point of the books is tohelp just one human being, and
I've gotten back that it'shelpful to.
So that was the whole point.
That's amazing.
It's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
It's fulfilling All.
That said, I absolutely hateall the work it takes to produce
(46:23):
a book, and I'm talking.
I'm not talking about, like,the creative process and the
idea, and not that it's whatsize font do you want to use?
What do you want on the spine?
What color?
Where do you want that?
Like all of that.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Oh my goodness, absolute.
I whine about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
It's a pain.
It's a pain.
And when I published my ownbooks, people kept asking me hey
, will you publish my book?
And I'd say, hell, no, it's apain in the ass, it is so hard.
You can't imagine how hard thisis.
But then my wife wrote herfirst novel and she said, well,
you published my book.
And I said, of course, honey,I'll publish your book.
(47:05):
So then I had the idea okay,I'm not going to make a million
bucks on this, but I can make alittle money and help people get
their books out.
We've streamlined that wholeprocess, so that was the whole
idea behind that.
I think we just published our65th book, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
So we're just helping people get their books out.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Okay, well damn, which is an interesting mix,
right?
Maybe that recipe is in BigMama's cookbook.
You started off as an engineer.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, recipes in big mama's cookbook.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
He started off as an engineer, yeah.
Then you got into thisemotional intelligence thing
back in 2000, when I don't thinkyeah, were you the only one
using combining those two wordsno emotional intelligence is
from back in the 80s and be ablethat.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
This guy named gardner looked at different
intelligences but it was madepopular by Daniel Goldman who
wrote a book in 1995 calledEmotional Intelligence why it
Matters More Than IQ, and sothat kind of kicked off the big
part of it.
But my mentor, who I learnedall the emotional intelligence
(48:11):
stuff from, she was doing thatwork in the 80s at American
Express, so she was a truepioneer in the emotional
intelligence world.
So I just saw the value, sawthe need, said man, this is it,
this is what I need to be doingto help this industry.
So, that's what started thatwhole deal.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Okay, so engineer emotional intelligence, which
that's an amazing connection,and you know why.
Everybody out there knows why.
To author to now shoot.
What do we call it?
Publisher, publisher, publisher.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (48:49):
And I'm sure the list goes on right, because I mean,
wait, there's one other thing Igot to bring up because you're
in San Antonio, right yeah?
Oh yeah, all right.
So I quit for a while andbecame a full-time actor, oh
yeah.
So I and I wrote a bunch ofplays and acted a bunch.
I co-founded in san antonio themagic theater.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
It's a children's theater there no, I know, the
magic theater did, did youreally?
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah.
I co-founded it with RichardRosen and I was doing those
shows there when I was workingon the Brook Army Medical Center
.
I was the interstitial spacecoordinator on that project.
I was doing theater at nightand Richard and I co-founded the
magic theater I did a lot ofstand-up comedy and I co-founded
the Magic Theater, yeah, and Idid a lot of stand-up comedy and
(49:37):
I did some low-budget moviesand I had a small role on the
old TV show In the Heat of theNight.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
No way.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Oh, that is awesome yeah, I played a redneck auto
mechanic drug dealer on In theHeat of the Night.
That's so good.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
All right, brent, don't tell anybody.
But when I started my company,like not having a real job
anymore, I said, man, in fiveyears I think I'll be in a
situation where I'll have enoughtime to go and get involved in
community theater Because I'vealways been a fan of musicals.
(50:12):
Don't tell, but it's a secret.
I love music not all musicalsbut I can just get into musicals
.
Don't tell, but it's a secret.
I love music not all musicals,but I can just get into musicals
.
And it's always, sinceelementary school, being on
stage and performing has beenthe thing that it's like.
I can't stop thinking about it.
But it's don't do.
That's dumb, that's a waste oftime and right like man it is
(50:35):
you gotta do it right, Like man,you got to do it yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
You've got to do it.
Oh, I'm telling you, it'llfulfill you in so many ways, but
it'll make you a betterpresenter, facilitator, speaker,
all those things.
And so again, remember I talkedabout using all the talents to
this point in whatever yourcareer or your life is.
That's just going to give youmore skills.
Man, do it sooner rather thanlater.
(51:01):
And I know you've got to makemoney.
I get it.
But, man, I'm telling you, Idid that for three years and
tried to make a living at it.
It's a tough way to make aliving, but you don't need to
make a living at it.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
You can just do it for fun.
Exactly, I could sell picturesof my feet and act.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
There you go, you got it.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Okay, so I think you answered this, but I just want
to make sure, because the L&Mfamily out there I remember, if
I think back five years ago, Iwould hear like a podcast.
That's when I started listeningto podcasts and all this stuff
yeah, but they are in adifferent, those human beings
are different.
That experience is notaccessible to me.
I never said it that way, butthat was kind of my thinking.
(51:42):
Looking back, it's absolutelyaccessible, totally.
And so, with your path againengineer, actor, publisher,
emotional intelligence pioneer.
Actor, publisher, emotionalintelligence pioneer what are
the ingredients or the threadsthat human beings have access to
(52:03):
that you are able to weavetogether to have the experience
that you're having and theimpact that you're having?
Speaker 1 (52:10):
I think it boils down to two things.
One is curiosity Again, so whenpeople that are acting
differently than you and youdon't understand it, be curious
about it instead of judgmentalabout it.
And the other is I've alwaysbeen a lifelong learner.
I can't get enough of learningnew things, reading new books.
I probably read 30 or 40 booksa year, easy.
(52:33):
I'm constantly reading andtrying to learn new things, and
I think what that does is youget like all these real weird
just desperate weird things thatare floating around here.
They coalesce into one thing.
So the acting stuff led to.
I do a lot of work with improvand there's this group called
(52:53):
the Applied Improv Network, sowe take improv and apply it to
learning and leadership andconnection and communication and
all those things.
So a lot of the stuff in mycourses and online or live,
they're improv exercises,they're acting exercises, you
see.
So and I don't tell them thatit's that so I've taken this
(53:16):
really weird thing over here andthis cool thing here and kind
of slapped them together and itcreates this new thing.
That's even better.
But in order to bring thosereally weird sort of things that
don't seem to belong together,you've got to know those things.
So you've got to learn a bunchof new things, and then it just
comes together and it happens.
It's so cool to see thatprocess, right.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
So many things Amazing, like curiosity and
lifelong learning.
There's a curiosity, you pursueit, you learn more about it and
it creates the stuff to connectat some point in the future.
It's just the magic.
So folks be curious, ratherdon't be.
(54:03):
Stay curious and then learnabout it.
Spend some time learning aboutwhatever that curiosity is.
It may not pay off today,rather, count on it not paying
off today, but as you go intothe future, the right
circumstances, the magic jujucomes together and you'll be
(54:25):
able to serve people to agreater degree.
I love that.
I stole the yes and exercisebecause I took an improv course
also, which was awesome.
I did nine weeks, but not asserious as you.
It was just a thing that Iwanted to do.
I've still.
I've taken that no, yes, butyes, and it's part of several of
the workshops that I do to helppeople just become aware of the
(54:48):
simple tweak in words that ifwe're not doing it on purpose,
we could be causingdisconnection with other people,
you bet.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I do a lot, we do, yes, and as part of my
innovation and creativity, yes,yes, yeah, we do.
Yeah, it's so cool, and thinkof everybody walked into the big
room with curiosity oh yeah,instead of like why am I here?
This is a waste of time.
I've been doing it this way for30 years.
Lean's nothing new.
(55:18):
Blah, blah, blah.
What if they just came incurious?
What an experience.
That would be right.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
It would be, of the things that they could
accomplish and learn togetherwould be monumental.
I think, yeah, 100%, mr Brent.
This has been amazing and Iknow maybe I don't know if this
is a threat, it might be, but Ithink I need to talk to you some
more.
There's a lot of things that Iknow I can glean from you for
(55:44):
sure, and I would love it.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, I would love it man.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Where do people go?
I'm warming you up because I'mgoing to ask you the finale
grand finale question, becauseI'm going to ask you the finale
grand finale question when dopeople go to find you and what
should they like?
Speaker 1 (56:05):
What's the off the menu?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
super secret special service that you can help them
with.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
Okay, wow, so go to brentdarnellcom, connect with me
on LinkedIn.
I would love to connect withyou on LinkedIn, but go to
brentdarnellcom.
That's my website and there'ssome cool stuff there.
I mean, you can check out theonline courses.
There's some free stuff you canaccess just to see if you think
it's something you'd want to do.
But also, if you go to theonline store, there's an
emotional intelligence test.
These are all free.
(56:29):
There's a nutrition survey thattells us how your body's
working.
And see those correlate witheach other so you can look at
your emotional profile, yourphysical profile, and then
there's something called thebody battery inventory as well.
It measures stressors versusrecovery and then it gives you a
number.
So if your number's negative,you either have to build in more
(56:51):
recovery or you have to reduceyour stress.
Well, in this industry, wealways say, okay, reduce stress
where you can, but it's astressful industry, so we opt
into let's build in morerecovery throughout our day, and
there's tons of recoveryactivities that you can work on
and do, and it gives you a bunchof stuff.
In this body battery inventory,you can even create a plan,
(57:13):
because you know you're going tobe stressed.
There's things that are goingto stress you like a meeting a
commute a person.
So create a plan right now tobuild in something to recover
from that stress, either before,during or after that event.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
All right, folks, you heard there's three things.
You need to go check out,download, do the assessment,
because it'll help you, duh, andthen, when you want more, hit
up Mr Brent.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
So, again, if they need more, if I want more of
this, I'll say what do you need?
And if I can give it to you,I'll give it to you.
And even like the onlinecourses, we're still looking,
we're still in the beta test,we're moving out of the beta
test, but if somebody wants tojust check them out, I can give
them some access.
Just let me know what you wantand I'll give you access to
these online courses.
Check them out and give me yourfeedback.
(58:00):
I'll let you access those forfree or really cheap, or tell me
what you want and I'll do mybest to give it to you 10, 4,.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Amazing, Very generous of you, my friend,
thank you.
So you're ready for the grandcloser?
I'm ready, all right.
So clearly, like folks, if youmissed it, brent's a pretty
amazing human being.
You've done a lot to contributeto transform an industry.
Your path of personal growthand contribution are amazing,
(58:30):
and so I think your question,your answer to this question, is
going to be pretty heavy.
So here's the question.
Your question, your answer tothis question is going to be
pretty heavy.
So here's the question.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
What is the promise you are intended to be?
The promise I am intended to beWow, that's pretty, pretty deep
.
I've been put on this earth tohelp as many people as I can.
That promise really manifestsitself in a lot of different
ways.
This promise has evolved.
I think I was pretty selfish,pretty much of a jerk initially.
(59:06):
So this is a process for me anda self-healing process.
But then I see what this workcan do and be because I've
experienced it.
So I want other people to help,that I can help experience the
same transformation.
And not that I'm sayingeverybody's a jerk.
I'm saying, no matter where youare, you can be better, and
(59:27):
I've just tried to develop somegood tools to help people be the
best version of themselves thatthey can be.
That's what I'm here for.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
I knew it.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
I knew it was going to be awesome.
Jeez, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
Did you have fun?
Oh man, this was a blast.
I would love to do this againand I'm threatening to come to
LCI, to Congress, so that we cango hang out and maybe go grab a
meal together or something.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Weren't you speaking somewhere at the same time?
Speaker 1 (59:58):
No, not when.
Maybe those two or three weeks.
It's October, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
It's October, the week of the 21st.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Yeah, I am doing some speaking those weeks, but I'm
going to try to see if I cansqueeze that in somehow.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Oh man, that would be a yes.
I'm going to try to see if Ican squeeze that in somehow.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Oh man, that would be a yes, and I'd love to also
hang out with Jen as well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, she's the queen .
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Oh, she's so great I saw her at AGC and we need to do
some more stuff together.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Definitely.
Thank you for sticking it outall the way to the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on and, in
appreciation for the gift oftime that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book Becoming the
Promise You're Intended to Be.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
(01:00:52):
There's a link in there.
You just click that and you candownload the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate yousharing.
That increases the likelihoodthat it's going to help one more
person.
(01:01:12):
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be Be kind to
yourself, be cool, and we'lltalk at you next time.
It goes beyond just being a better leader or a
better manager of a constructionprocess.
They become better human beings.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What is going on?
L&m family Back again.
And I got to tell you I'm alittle extra, extra jazz, maybe
even starstruck, because theguest we have today.
I was having flashbacks inpreparation for this
conversation when I decided tolike quit my real job and not
wear pants every day.
Several people said you need totalk to this guy Like this.
(00:34):
It sounds like this is whatyou're doing and I'm like well,
who is he?
And all today it came back oh,this is Brent.
This is the guy everybody wastelling me about.
So I'm super, super stoked.
He is an OG, like the OG onpeople issues in the AEC space
architect, engineer,construction, like all of that.
(00:55):
When it comes to people.
He has been playing this gamesince before it was like a
popular thing which is super,super interesting, and then you
might be thinking like peopleissues.
We talk about people issues,talking about mental stuff that
has something to do with people,physical stuff, people and
(01:16):
emotional stuff and not juststuff, but like performance,
mental performance, physicalperformance and emotional
performance.
He's been at it for a very longtime.
I'm just a little scrub, alittle squinkly, trying to
tinker around in this space andI'm like over the moon that I
get to interview him andintroduce you guys out there to
mr brent.
Mr brent darnell, and before weget into that, if this is your
(01:40):
first time here, this is theLearnings and Missteps podcast,
where you get to meet amazinghuman beings just like you who
are sharing their gifts andtalents to leave this world
better than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are going to get to
know Mr Brent Darnell.
(02:01):
Mr Brent, how are you, myfriend?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Doing great Things are awesome Probably better than
I deserve.
Life is good.
I'm loving what I'm doing.
I'm really seeing that theindustry is catching up now and
really focusing on all thepeople stuff and I think it's
because it kind of bit us in thebutt a little bit with mental
(02:23):
health stuff and substance usedisorders and workforce
development and even thatdiversity and equity and those
kind of things.
I think those are all the peopleissues and I think we sort of
shoved them under the carpet forthe longest time.
And now they're like they'recrises, and now we're really
starting to pay attention.
(02:44):
I mean, that that's my take onit.
Maybe I got it all wrong, butthat's my take on it brand.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
I agree a hundred percent.
Here's what I see happening.
We can't just throw money atthe problem anymore, and by
problem I mean the peopleproblem, right, the shortage of
people let's forget aboutbringing people in Taking care
of, appreciating and valuing thepeople that we have is a
(03:11):
problem, and the volume of workthat's available right now is I
mean, it just keeps gettingbigger and things need to go
faster.
And then there's this thing,brent, that you probably read
about it, spoken it, spokenabout and seen it a bunch of
times.
Everybody knew that at thistime, like this decade, the baby
(03:32):
boomers were going to beleaving the industry.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, and we're now yeah, it wasn't a big shock.
We sort of knew this was comingright for a decade.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
and now it's what happened to all the experience,
bro, it's been happening for along time, yeah, and so because
you have all of these things,and then you know what, maybe
what couldn't have been foresawis the dwindling number of
people that want to come in tothe industry and and the like
you said, the substance abuse,suicide, like people not staying
(04:07):
in the industry, or rathertheir lives deteriorating
because of the conditions in theindustry, like it's the perfect
storm for companies, decisionmakers to say, oh crap, we got
to do it different.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think it's so true, and I've boiled it down to all
of these the root cause to me ishuman connection.
Human connection so that's whatI've been focusing on the last
couple of years is how do weconnect better as human beings?
And that involves all kinds ofthings Great listening, great
communication, respect, trust ofthings.
(04:47):
Great listening, greatcommunication, respect, trust
just really getting in the shoesof the other person,
understanding them in a profoundway.
And then that connection leadsto so many other things.
They feel safe, they feel likethey belong, they feel like
they're part of something biggerthan themselves, they feel
respected.
And when you get all that goingon, plus, you want to sprinkle
on top, just make their livesbetter.
And when you get all that goingon plus, you want to sprinkle
on top, just make their livesbetter.
(05:07):
Why would you go anywhere else?
Why would you go to any othercompany or any other industry
when you have that?
Why would you risk that?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yes, I have a theory and right now everybody, every
company, every single one, isoffering competitive pay and
benefits.
Right, that's back when I was,I just got my journeyman license
and TD Industries had starteddoing work here in San Antonio.
(05:37):
This was back in 1999, probablyand the big draw was they had
benefits.
That was a big deal, becausenobody really subcontractors
didn't really have benefits.
They had some, maybe vacationor something, but they had all
the benefits.
That's not a thing anymore.
Everybody has them.
(05:57):
Everybody's offeringcompetitive pay, everybody's
offering benefits.
From their perspective Maybeit's not competitive, but from
the employer's perspective it isright.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
And so my theory is this is the decision makers, the
influencers in thoseorganizations that figure out
how to demonstrate, like yousaid, appreciation and invest in
the human being beyond theirjob description.
Yeah, they're going to win thetalent game.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, For all the companies that don't do it.
People are going to be leavingtheir companies and going to
these companies that do this andyou wonder why don't they get
that and why don't they investin that?
But they don't.
This guy, Wally Adamczyk, whodoes a lot of the same stuff.
We were having this discussion.
We struggle with relevanceevery day, Like we get the
(06:49):
feeling sometimes that 90% ofthe contractors out there just
think we're total idiots anddon't know what we're doing and
this is total, a waste of timeand a bunch of crap and why are
we even talking about this?
So we struggle with that aboutonce a week, right.
But then you see the peoplethat are doing it, you see the
companies that are doing it andthe people you're working with
(07:10):
and the results and that kind ofkeeps us going right.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, you see the impact and it puts fuel in your
tank like, okay, let me goagainst the friction.
Well, and so that's today, in2025.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
You started over 20 years ago down this path 2000
was the first program I didwhere we looked at emotional
intelligence.
We had these guys up and doingyoga every morning, yoga,
meditation.
You should have seen it, man.
It was so funny.
They would walk in the room atthe hotel and it would be like
(07:44):
kind of dark and there'd be somemusic playing and they would go
back out and look and think isthis the right place?
What is this?
Why are we doing this?
They did this stuff and theyfelt the difference and they did
some basic breathing andmeditation and stuff.
(08:05):
It was really effective forthem as a miraculous.
And some didn't want to admitthat they did yoga.
So they would say, hey, I thinkthis yoga is a bunch of crap.
And I'd say, well, it's okay,it's not for everybody.
He said, yeah, but thatbreathing, the breathing stuff
really helps me.
I said, well, don't do yoga,just do that, just do the
breathing stuff.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
I love it.
That's hilarious, yes.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
Whatever you need to practice, bro, just do that and
since then I've gotten my yogateacher certification.
So I'm a certified instructornow.
Not that I'm going to teach,but I just wanted to do a little
bit more with my own practiceand deepen my practice.
But it really gave me a lot ofinsights into an in-depth view
(08:49):
of yoga and what it can do foryou physically, mentally,
emotionally.
It's not for everybody, I tellpeople.
If you don't like it, that'scool, but find your yoga,
whatever that is.
It could be walking in nature,it could be listening to music,
it could be silence, it could befishing.
It could be listening to music,it could be silence, it could
be fishing, it could be huntingSomething that restores you in
some way.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Find what yours is.
Yeah, so 25 years ago I mean,that's an interesting time and
I'm referring to like my frameof reference.
I see people nowadays every nowand then when I'm doing my work
, people look at me like, areyou okay?
Yeah, why You're not the sameguy I knew 15 years ago.
(09:32):
Right, a little bit Now.
Two things are pinging in myhead.
One is why did you go down thispath?
What was it that triggered youto go down this path 25 years
ago?
The other thing that's pingingaround in there is how hard was
it back then compared to now?
Speaker 1 (09:55):
So I was working for Skanska at the time in Atlanta
and they had this leadershipprogram.
That was an internationalprogram.
Skanska was buying a bunch ofinternational companies at the
time and they said they wantedan American to run it.
So I threw my hat in that ringand I ran this program that was
an international program.
Skotska was buying a bunch ofinternational companies at the
time and they said they wantedan American to run it.
So I threw my hat in that ringand I ran this program for a
couple of years and then at theend of the two years they said
well, we're sort of done withthis program, we're going to do
(10:16):
something different.
Go back to Atlanta.
And I went back to Atlanta andI said, hey, man, I've learned
all this great stuff aboutleadership and training and
development and all this stuff.
I want to do that here.
And they went we don't needthat crap, why would we do that
here?
We're fine, yeah, we're good,we don't need it, but thank you
for offering.
And then they said but we wantyou to go back and manage
(10:38):
projects again.
So they said there's agymnasium at a high school, we
want you to project manage.
And I just I could not getexcited about that after doing
this international program fortwo years.
It was a five-week programspread throughout the year.
We were in places like BuenosAires and Moscow and Prague and
London and New York.
(11:00):
And it was like wow, and so itwas a great program.
So I decided at the time I justsaid no, thank you, I don't
want to manage projects again,I'm going to start my own
business and do this stuff forreal.
And they just went yeah, goodluck with that yeah.
I said you'll be crawling backbegging to manage a gymnasium in
Albany.
Georgia, georgia.
(11:22):
And it was tough in thebeginning because I tried to be
everything to everybody.
I tried to do environmentalconsulting.
I was a lead accreditedprofessional and wrote the
environmental management systemfor Skotska in Atlanta.
So I had a lot of environmentalstuff.
I tried to do a bunch ofdifferent stuff and I tried all
industries.
I tried IT and accounting,really yeah, and I was getting
(11:45):
some work, but nothing reallytook off until I said, look,
this is what I'm doing Emotionalintelligence and all those
critical people skills with afocus on performance for the
construction industry.
That's it.
When I did that, things startedtaking off.
I started getting some traction.
I had companies that say wewant to do that here.
(12:07):
So I just kept building thatresume, working with different
companies, really figuring outhow this really works, because
the first time I did it forcompanies, I would come in for a
day, we'd do the emotionalintelligence training, they'd
take the evaluations and I'd go.
Now you're totally magicallyhealed.
You're now great with people.
Thank you very much.
Mic drop and I'm out.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
It's time for the L&M family member shout out.
And this one goes to my buddy,mr Brian Melcher.
He was gracious enough inletting me victimize him and his
team with some trainingcommunication capabilities AKA
emotional bungee jumpers and hesent me this message.
He says, bro, your training ismaking a difference.
(12:53):
Thanks for being willing tocome out and spend the time with
us.
Have a great week.
So I got to go to Phoenix andhang out with them for a couple
of days and with the FieldVerify crew Amazing human beings
out there also in theconstruction space and folks.
If you get a chance to leave acomment, do a share, leave a
review.
You know I love them because Ilove attention and it gives me
(13:16):
the opportunity to shout you outin the future.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And that just didn't work at all.
So we started saying, well,what does work?
So we started extending thetime and we put out six months
and then to eight months andthen to nine months and then a
full year, and then we addedaccountability, partners within
the groups, and then we addedindividual coaching and follow
up, and so the more we kept sortof doing these iterations of
(13:44):
programs, they got better andbetter, and so that's how it
evolved.
And in the beginning it washard.
25 years ago people it wasmostly hard bid, it was mostly
adversarial, siloed, even withincompanies, siloed and
(14:04):
adversarial, and people didn'teven think about like how could
we do this in a different way?
Lean was a gleam in someone'seye.
I mean, that was 10 yearsbefore lean right, those guys
started in the early nineties orlate eighties, something like
that.
So that was just gettingstarted.
Design build was in its infancyCM, cm, at risk, all those
(14:26):
collaborative project deliverymethods were just not very well
established, so people didn'tneed these skills.
But then when they startedgetting the traction, then
everybody said, wow, this is adifferent set of skills, we need
to make these successful.
So then that got more traction.
So then it just kept buildingand I believe the industry
(14:47):
started changing.
And then they looked at me andsaid, hey, this is what we need
right now.
So that's when things startedevolving and gelling and taking
off.
It's been such a great thing tosee the industry doing those
shifts and changes.
I'm sure you've seen thosechanges as well.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Right, I mean, I've lived it.
Brett, I was a pretty good,we'll say, elbows and boots is
how we got work done.
I know for a fact that when Iwas a foreman and a
superintendent for a mechanicalcontractor, there wasn't one
client, one superintendent,project manager team for a GC
(15:30):
that loved me, manager team fora GC that loved me, and it was.
You remember the cartoon withFoghorn, leghorn and the dog.
They would fight.
They were the big rooster andthe big dog.
They'd clock out and then theywere buddies.
It's kind of how I like.
Okay, I'm going to go to thisjob and I'm going to be fighting
with Tommy today, and, okay,what are we going to fight about
(15:51):
?
Okay, I want to fight aboutthis and see what he went.
I went battle ready in mymindset.
Yeah, it never occurred to methat, like collaboration and
communication and like thatwould be a value, because I got
there first and if I get therefirst I win.
Period.
Yeah, yeah, and so I've beenable.
(16:11):
Now I'm fortunate in that Iwork.
I got lucky on the jobs that Ihad and the people that I got to
work with in those jobs,because they influenced me.
To look at it.
There's a different way, itdoesn't have to be this hard.
And so by the time I startedlike applying the lean stuff and
like getting beyond myself andthinking more about the team and
(16:34):
the organization and theindustry, I was not in the field
anymore and it was like, man, Icould have had so many friends.
I didn't have friends.
Yeah, like on the job site.
I didn't have friends becauseif you couldn't, if I couldn't
get anything out of you, Ididn't need you, period.
And like now, I know there's alot of our brethren out there
(16:57):
that still operate in that mode,but I was not.
I was not proud or happy of theguy that I was, but it was what
I had to do to perform andexcel in the role.
That was my frame anyways.
So it was taxing on meemotionally, mentally,
spiritually, and I had no here'sthe thing Like I had no idea.
(17:19):
That's just the way it is or theway it works, and so over time
I've gotten a little bit better.
But well, I mean go ahead.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
That's one of the selling points.
To superintendents I say howwould you like to be more
effective with a lot less wearand tear on you?
Man boom yeah, they go hell,yeah, I want that.
It's this people stuff thatthat will allow you to do that.
Your job will be easier.
It's a lot less wear and tearon you.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
It's just exhausting having to kick everybody's ass
every day yes, that's the thingpeople don't know fighting, and
it don't matter if it's likefighting, fighting like hands,
fist, kicks, knees, elbows, orfighting mentally or verbally,
you still get hit.
Yeah, win or lose, it stillhurts either way you leave stuff
(18:10):
on the field.
So, over that time particularly, I'm really curious about the
2000, because I remember thatwas kind of it was rare, I mean
ultra, ultra, ultra rare to havea GC that was even doing some
version of pole planning and itwas seen as like this foo-foo,
(18:31):
la-la stuff that didn't make us,they're just making us do it.
It was the flavor of the month25 years ago.
Now what I'm curious about isof the folks that you've worked
with in terms of what you wantedto deliver, like the experience
or the transformation youwanted to spark in somebody, the
(18:56):
transformation you wanted tospark in somebody, and what you
actually got to see, or seewitness glimpses of what.
What's that like back then?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
well for me, like part of it was self-healing.
I call myself a recovering jerk, right?
I mean I'm a mechanicalengineer, brain, technical
person, smartest guy in the room, just a jerk Just putting down
everybody.
You're stupid, you're an idiot.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Whenever?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I could to put them down and put them in their place
.
Probably a lot of insecurityrevolving around that as well.
But so part of this was my ownjourney of just healing myself
with this.
So when I saw the results thatI was getting and then saw the
results that others were getting, it goes beyond just being a
better leader or a bettermanager of a construction
(19:44):
process.
They become better human beings, and better human beings make
better employees.
I don't know why people don'tget that, because early I would
say but this guy's a better dad,he's a better husband, and they
go.
We don't give a crap.
Who cares if he's a betterhusband.
I work with this one guy.
He's in Mexico, his name isGabriel and he was typical alpha
(20:10):
superintendent.
50 years old ass kicker wasasked to be removed from a
project.
His own team didn't want towork with him.
So he worked on humanconnection, being a better team
player, working on his empathy.
And he calls me about halfwaythrough this process and he says
I got a problem with my niece,can you help me?
And I said I'm sure, especiallyif it has to do with your.
(20:32):
I'm not a counselor or anything.
He said well, she's moved inwith us because she just got
divorced and she lost her joband she has a pain in the ass
and we really hate her.
We're about to kick her out andshe's telling us how to run our
lives.
And so I'm doing this on Skype,right, and I said, well.
I said well, wow.
So, as he's telling that, he'ssaying, well, she lost her job,
(20:53):
she got a divorce, she can'tafford her own place, his face
does this.
His face lights up and he goes.
She feels bad about herself,doesn't she?
What's that?
That's empathy.
That's working on.
Yes, I said, well, what are yougoing to do?
And he said, well, we're goingto just tell her we love her and
support her.
And at the end of this coachingthing he said, wow, she's doing
(21:15):
great, she's dating someone,she's looking for her own place,
she has a job.
We were just really supportiveof her.
And I always ask people doesthat make him a better
superintendent?
Well, hell, yes, it does,because now he has the empathy,
understands his people better,he can motivate them better, he
(21:36):
can support them better, they'regoing to trust him more.
It all works together.
And, by the way, this guy wentfrom being removed from a
project to COO in 10 months.
Oh yeah, because I'm working onthe people side of this thing
and I saw him as a leader right.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Because he can connect and influence people
like that.
Okay, yes, yes and yes.
So you've mentioned connectionand empathy.
How do you do it?
How does a person do connectionand empathy?
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Well, it's a process.
It's not like cognitivelearning.
It's not like a spreadsheet orhow to do a budget or a schedule
.
It's more like learning to playa musical instrument or
learning a language.
It takes place in differentparts of your brain so it takes
a lot of repetition.
We've got an activity guide andworkbook that has tons of ways
(22:29):
to develop things like empathyor any emotional competence.
But the trick is dailyapplication, daily reflection.
You got to apply that daily.
So, for empathy, maybe part ofthat is just asking people how
are you doing today?
And then follow that up with no, really, how are you doing
today?
And get them to start sharingthat and then think about okay,
(22:51):
did I get it right?
Because it looked like to me hewas really stressed today.
Yeah, I'm kind of stressedtoday.
Well, that's a greatreinforcement.
So then you reflect on okay, Igot that.
I'm starting to be able todiscern the emotional states and
people around me.
So you apply it daily, youreflect daily and then you just
keep getting better and havinglittle nudges of insights.
(23:19):
It's self-reinforcing behavior.
You could even I mean you coulddo it just like an engineer
would do it.
Say, scale it one to 10.
How are you doing today?
Give me a number and then think, okay, I had it wrong.
Maybe I'm thinking I'm seeinghim as a two or a three and he
says he's an eight or a nine.
So I got to work on that.
I'm going to be a little morein tune with that.
You get this progression offirst it starts with
self-awareness.
Once you get that pretty good,then you start recognizing those
(23:40):
things in others and then guesswhat?
Your relationships startgetting better and just start
with relationships.
You got to start with your ownself-awareness, if that's what
needs to work right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
So I want to dive into self-awareness, because my
brain does twisted things witheverything, not everything.
There's some things that I'lljust split hairs to the nth
degree, and self-awareness isone of those.
So what I'm looking for is likea status check.
No, jesse, you're nuts when Ithink of self-awareness.
I don't think of self-awarenessin terms of what triggers me
(24:15):
when I'm in a good mood, how Ibehave, what I'm thinking, what
I value.
I think of self-awareness interms of recognizing how the way
I show up causes people torespond in a particular way
(24:37):
respond in a particular way.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yeah, am I too far?
No, you're spot on, becausethat's what informs the
self-awareness, because it'sdiscerning how you're coming
across to others, and so, andwhat you develop over time is
the ability to pivot in realtime.
So if you're coming across andyou see the reaction, which is,
again, empathy and it's not thereaction you're looking for,
(24:58):
then you can pivot a little bit.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
And that creates that ability to connect, no matter
what's going on, because you maycome in pretty hot and you get
the oh crap, I'm coming inreally hot, and then you back it
down and then you just shift alittle bit and then you get a
different reaction and that allhappens in real time.
The ability to do that, quitefrankly, it's just not our best
(25:23):
thing, because that's prettygood honed emotional awareness
and emotional management.
And that takes, it's a skillyou can learn, it takes practice
, it takes coaching, it takesfollow-up, it takes reflection.
It takes it.
It's a skill you can learn, ittakes practice, it takes
coaching, it takes follow up, ittakes reflection, it takes
application.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
But over time, man, I mean what a skill that is Right
experiences I'm having, andwhat I mean by that is like the
relationships, the caliber ofpeople that are in my life, the
work that I get to do, theplaces I get, or like the things
I get invited to collaborate onor contribute to Credentially.
I have no business doing thosethings, but because I like to
(26:07):
connect with people and Ifigured out and I full
disclosure it's not because I'mthis super sweet guy, I was
highly manipulative.
So I learned how to manipulatemy behavior to get what I wanted
from people and I used that ina very selfish, self-destructive
way for a lot of years.
It's like the same cues that Idid, that I used for
(26:32):
manipulating people that I cansee now, pay attention to now to
understand like, oh, this ishow I'm affecting them or this
is what they value.
So maybe I should have justtweak whatever I need to tweak
and I think it's helped people.
Well, I say help, maybe theappropriate word is tricked
people into thinking I havesomething to offer.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Well, I'm going to totally challenge what you just
said.
I think you're right where youneed to be, and the people that
you're coming into contact withnow are the people that you
needed to meet.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Agreed Right.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
And so this is just the next step in your evolution
as a consultant, as somebodywho's helping a lot of people.
It's evolving into what itneeds to be, and you use
everything that you have in thecurrent moment, of all the stuff
that brought you up to thatmoment.
So you're right where you needto be and you're meeting the
(27:34):
people that you need to meet,and I always talk to people that
are doing what you're doing andsay thank God, you're doing
this, the need is great.
I was working for the Corps ofEngineers and this general said
son, you've found yourself nowin a target-rich environment
Emotional intelligence for theseengineer and military guys, and
(27:57):
so we've got a target richenvironment.
There's no competition here.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
None.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
The need is great and I'm so happy that you're doing
what you're doing, becauseyou're making the industry
better.
Yeah, by doing what you'redoing.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Thank you, brent, I appreciate that and agree and
agree.
It's interesting you said theneed is so great because there
are some folks that I've comeacross that are in the same
business as us and they're kindof standoffish and guard him
like bro, for real, I cannothandle, I don't want all the
(28:33):
business.
Yeah, and I, you cannot handleall the business, I cannot
handle all the business.
So why are we like, if youdon't want to play, it's cool,
but like we could really dosomething awesome if we just had
a discussion about a point,something.
But they treat it anyways.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
it's a mentality, right mentality right, scarcity,
yeah, scarcity or abundance.
I'm really an abundant thinkerand I've always been, and I give
a lot of stuff away.
Yeah, well, mainly sometimesbecause I'm just a poor
businessman, but most of thetime it's just because I want to
help people.
Yes, and they'll say, can youhelp me with this?
And I'll say, yeah, what do youneed?
(29:12):
And I'll give you what you need.
If I can give it to you fornothing, I'll give it to you for
nothing.
That doesn't bother me at all.
The money will come.
The money will come whenever itneeds to come.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, the money's easy, brent, and I've discovered
, like worst comes to worst, Ican sell pictures of my feet
online, of my feet online, likemoney's easy.
Yeah, exactly, that's not aproblem, but that may not be the
best way to serve the industryright now.
That's what I'm trying to crack.
Oh, my goodness.
(29:42):
Okay, so you mentioned Lean.
We've kind of thrown that outthere.
You got to see it in itsinception and I've seen some
recent stuff on LinkedIn latelyabout the human side of lean.
What is that?
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Well, we're doing a session Friday at the local lean
thing here in Atlanta and it'sall about the.
I call it the forgotten pillar.
It's the respect for people,continual improvement, respect
for people.
And if you look at, words,don't they?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Doesn't that mean, they're doing it?
Speaker 1 (30:15):
It kills me because people think of lean as a
process.
It is so not a process.
It's a total philosophy culture, and it takes decades to build
that culture, that lean culture.
And people want the quick fix.
And, oh, let's just do poolplanning.
And we really won't do poolplanning.
We'll just take our P6 and makesticky notes out of it and put
(30:39):
it on the wall.
That's lean, right?
No, not really.
And they don't listen to theirtrades.
They don't even do the big roomthe way it should be done.
Everybody should be in thatroom and everybody should be
having input into that process.
And the guys with tools intheir hands here's the other
thing I always say is those arethe only guys who are creating
(31:01):
value on that project.
And they want to argue with me.
No, I'm a project manager, Icreate value.
No, you don't.
I'm sorry the value creators.
We're talking about the respectfor the people with tools in
their hands that are creatingthe value and asking for their
input.
And then again, that all comesdown to emotional intelligence
of things like empathy andself-awareness, and how you show
(31:23):
up in an emotional way in thosepool planning sessions and in
that environment where lean iswhat you're trying to achieve.
And if you've got a Toyota infact there was this big lean
like a manufacturing lean thing90% of their sessions were on
(31:44):
the people stuff.
What does that tell you?
It isn't a process.
It isn't about sticky notes.
It isn't about improving aprocess just so we'll get a
couple extra dollars at the endof it.
It's a philosophy thateverybody has input into that
process.
Everybody is valued, everybodyis respected.
(32:05):
And then you start.
When you get that in place,then the magic starts to happen.
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
yeah, a hundred percent.
That's the one contributingfactor that I can put my finger
on is like the rate of adoptionor growth is relative to that
project leader's depth ofhumility.
Yeah, if they can disengagefrom I gotta get the job done to
maybe employ some facilitatorskills, yeah, they'll have a
(32:38):
better pull plan.
If they can't, if they don'thave the facilitation skill,
they're going to translate theP6 schedule on the sticky notes
and put on the one.
Waste everybody's time.
Yeah, so like it has to happen.
Now what's interesting is you'veseen it.
I've been able to go all overthe country and just see over
and over again where people areattempting to do the thing in
(33:02):
the most clinical way andcompletely ignoring and I think
they don't know, completelyignoring the social element, the
social value of the differenttools that they're trying to use
.
And so why do you think that isso pervasive in our industry?
That folks discount Maybethey're ignorant, they don't
(33:28):
know keeps us from realizing.
Rather, it helps us sanitizeout all the human, social
elements of this philosophy.
What do you think of?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
it.
I think it's the pressure ofexecuting the work I mean that's
the base on every project, youget the work done.
Well, the idea of going slow togo fast, creating that
uninterrupted workflow, it'sjust a foreign concept.
It doesn't make any sense,right yeah, and it doesn't.
(34:02):
If you just say, hey, we needto slow down, they're going no,
and we get this greatuninterrupted workflow.
For this section of work we'regoing to finish early.
But it's hard to wrap your headaround because if there's any
(34:23):
work that could be executed andput in place, you just go do it
To hell.
With sequence of work and whoyou're hog-tying and any of that
.
It's just oh, we got a bunch ofcrap on the floor, let's get it
up in the air, okay, well, butwhy don't we talk to the people
before the work and the peopleafter the work and get this flow
(34:44):
of work?
No, and again, they've got aschedule.
They've got probably a P6 orsome kind of automated kind of
schedule and they say we're justgoing to go with the schedule.
Well've got probably a P6 orsome kind of automated kind of
schedule and they say we're justgoing to go with the schedule.
Well, I found that if youreally dig into and really do
some good pool planning, youknow milestone pools and then,
(35:06):
phase pools.
You're going to cut a bunch ofwork out of that six schedule
because they padded the crap outof it.
And, believe me, you call sometrade partner and you say how
long is it going to take to dothis?
What are they going to tell you?
They're pulling the number outof their butt anyway, so they're
going to pad that.
So you've got all this paddednumbers.
The real numbers are when youdo the actual pull planning get
everybody involved, geteverybody's input.
(35:27):
That's where the real numbersstart.
And when you do that you'regoing to probably take.
We found that like from facepull to six-week look ahead,
you're going to cut out at least10 or 20 percent.
Easy, Just from people talkingto each other.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
If you create the conditions for people to
communicate, you're spot onRight, because if there's no,
when that dialogue is absentit's going to be what it's
always been.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, exactly yeah, I think you're spot on.
That's that's the key to thatis getting people comfortable
with each other, trusting eachother, saying, hey, that's a
bunch of crap, I need two daysto do this, or I can do that in
a day and a half, whereas ifthey could do it in a day and a
half but they have three daysand they don't trust you,
they're just going to keep theirmouth shut and say, yeah, so
(36:17):
that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
You just nailed it.
Like when I'm coaching folks ondoing it, I'm like look, the
first one, your first pull plan,is going to suck.
It's going to be clumsy, it'sgoing to be clunky, it's going
to be uncomfortable.
People are not going to makereal commitments, people are
going to squirm.
And you're going to hear aboutall the problems.
Why the hell would we want todo that?
(36:39):
Well, because you're going tofind out about the problems
before they impact production,because you're planning before
you start to work, and they'regoing to surface issues.
If you listen, write it down.
Don't bark back, don't accusethem of making excuses.
They're telling you what theyneed to be successful.
(37:01):
You're the GC.
You have the greater influenceand resources and relationships
than they do, so you can helpmake it better.
Listen and they'll tell youmore.
Some people going to overcommityeah, because that's their
nature.
Some people sandbag, becausethat's my nature.
(37:23):
Yeah, and over time, throughthe repetition, they start
building the relationship andthe trust to say, jess, you're
always sandbagging.
You always say you need twoweeks Like for real.
Well, you know.
And so it starts calibratingitself, but not if whoever's
running it, if they cannot, ifthey fail to create the
(37:51):
conditions for people tocommunicate, meaning they listen
more than they talk they're notgoing to get there.
Which brings us again back tothis connection thing that
you're out there making happen,helping people with.
I wonder, what do you think?
Like most of our projects inconstruction, they're six to 18
months long.
I'm sure there's these big megadata centers or big giant
(38:13):
billion dollar developments, butevery it's never the same group
of people, even on those bigbillion dollar, like people,
trades switching it out, right.
So the fact that the projectduration is there's a finite end
to it, I think because of that,we believe that it's okay to
(38:37):
treat people like we're nevergoing to see them again after
this project, but the fact is wewill, yeah.
And so because of the bookendsof start the project, finish the
project, I feel like thatcontributes heavily to the lack
of connection in our industry.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, I think it's true and they'll.
They use it as an excuse,especially for shorter projects.
But I have a chapter in my bookthe people profit connection on
to high performing teams Well,one of the things I suggested
there.
And boy, talk about pushback.
I say why don't we getliterally everybody, every trade
(39:15):
partner, the GC, every vendor,every owner's rep, all the
designers, all the end users,and all go on a resort for a
two-week retreat and get to knoweach other and get to trust
each other and havecommunication with each other.
And everybody does someevaluations and they get
individual coaches to work onsome areas of their life that
(39:38):
they need to work on.
And and I always get that'sinsane, that's crazy.
I'd say why is it so crazy?
Well, who's going to pay forthat?
And I said, well, man, if youdid that on every project, you'd
save that times 10 probably forall the crap you're going to,
you're going to avoid.
So then I say, okay, if youcan't do two weeks, do a week.
(39:59):
If you can't do a week, do aweekend.
If you can't do a weekend, dohalf days, the first month of
the project, but you can findthe time to make those human
connections and get that trustand those relationships down to
where, when you've got problems,everybody jumps in and
everybody helps everybody else.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yes, so valuable, yeah, and I mean, you know that
don't make sense.
Why don't we just keep fightingand screaming and yelling at
each other?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, and we've done that for decades.
And that's the other thing is,I have GCs.
They'll tell me like man, Ican't trust this trade partner.
He just keeps giving me crapnumbers and he's padding his
numbers and I say, why do youthink he does that?
I don't know, maybe it'sbecause you've beaten the crap
out of him for decades and he'sbeen conditioned to give you
(40:48):
some numbers that he can have alittle play with.
Yes, that's why he's not givingyou the real numbers.
It's your fault, it's not hisfault, right, 100%.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
I love that you bring that up because it brings up a
real funky situation, becausethere are there's a growing
number and it's growing fast,just not fast enough but there's
a growing number ofsuperintendents, project
executives, pms on the GC sidethat have seen the light.
They're showing appreciationfor people, they're listening.
They're not big softy pushovers, they're just not porcupine out
(41:24):
all the time, right?
And so now what I see them getfrustrated is they get another
trade and that trade is like youdescribed there Whoa, there's a
lot of fluff, they're verystandoffish, they won't make a
commitment, and so what I try toexplain to them is dude, you
got to understand like thesetrade contractors work for GCs
(41:45):
dozens and dozens of GCs everyyear, and you are the exception.
Yeah, the majority of the GCsout there treat people like
garbage and so, because you're aGC, they expect you to treat
them the same way.
That's not your fault, but theydo have some trauma, some
baggage that they're carrying.
(42:06):
Yeah, because of all the dirtbags that they have to work.
And how do I know?
Because I live that life right,like I remember, like when I
first worked, the firstsuperintendent didn't say hey,
man, we're to do this pull planthing.
I need to know, like, how longis it going to take you to do
your tasks.
I'm like what do you mean?
How long can I have yourschedule?
No, no, like for real.
(42:26):
Can you break it up?
And I'm like what do you wantfrom me, dude?
What the hell's wrong with you?
I did it the most foreign thingin the world.
I was like what the hell?
And then I was like, oh, andthen of course, it wasn't easy.
I think we're three weeks intothe system on this project and
they abandoned it.
So we got to do it the way wealways did it.
I was comfortable again, yeah,but it took.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
it's so.
It's so true, and it takes alittle bit of time to develop
that trust that you're not thetypical GC that's going to hold
their feet to the fire or punishthem in some way for a number
that's been given to them.
But once that barrier is broken, man, it's things to start
opening up wide open, and thenit builds on itself.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yes, it's amazing.
It's amazing In my head, thehuman side of Lean was a book.
Is that true?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
I don't know If it is , I need to read it.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Oh, okay, good.
What I found out is that you'vewritten multiple books and I
couldn't even count.
How many books have youproduced?
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I've written eight books so far, but also I
couldn't find a good publisherthat I liked.
I had a couple interested andthey wanted 95% and I said, wait
a minute, 95% so I get 5%.
So I started my own publishingcompany.
So I have a publishing companyand we publish people's books
(43:52):
and for people that are havingtrouble getting their books out,
we help them get their booksout.
So I publish through my ownpublishing company and those are
on my website.
I've turned People ProfitConnection into an audio book.
There's eBooks yeah, check themout.
I've even published a BigMama's Country Cookbook.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
I saw that I was like maybe I'm on the wrong website.
I was like maybe I'm on thewrong website.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
When my grandmother died she had this big recipe box
and I've got three brothers andthey said what are we going to
do with this?
I said I'll take it.
So I took it and it sat in acupboard for years and I pulled
it out and it was like not onlywere they great recipes but
they're like family history,because the dishes we would
serve at family reunions andfunerals and things like that.
(44:39):
So I wrote this book and did alittle bit of family history and
I have kind of like I have abunch of characters on my mom's
side of my family, so I put themin there.
And then I didn't have quiteenough recipes.
So I solicited all my cousins,aunts and uncles and said give
me all your favorite recipes.
So this is all Southern cookingbiscuits and gumbo and mostly.
(45:01):
Alabama, Gulf Coast kind ofcooking and fried chicken and
collard greens and cornbread andall those really good things.
So that's what's in the book.
And it's so weird because welook at our sales month to month
for all the books that wepublish and for some reason the
last month Big Mama's CountryCookbook has sold 95 copies in
(45:23):
the last month.
We don't even know who's buyingthem.
And I asked all my cousins Isaid are you guys buying these
books for gifts or something?
They go no, we don't knowwhat's going on, so I don't know
who's buying Big Mama's Country.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Cookbook, but it's our best-selling book this last
month.
Well, we're going to make surewe have a link in the show notes
so that we can keep sellingthem Big Mama's Cookbook and
maybe sometime in the future youcan tell me the secret, because
one I do not enjoy.
Rather, I love that I got acouple of books out there, yeah
you got some I've read yourbooks.
Thank you, I love your books.
(46:01):
Oh my God, that's amazing.
Thanks for telling me.
The point of the books is tohelp just one human being, and
I've gotten back that it'shelpful to.
So that was the whole point.
That's amazing.
It's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
It's fulfilling All.
That said, I absolutely hateall the work it takes to produce
(46:23):
a book, and I'm talking.
I'm not talking about, like,the creative process and the
idea, and not that it's whatsize font do you want to use?
What do you want on the spine?
What color?
Where do you want that?
Like all of that.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Oh my goodness, absolute.
I whine about it all the time.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
It's a pain.
It's a pain.
And when I published my ownbooks, people kept asking me hey
, will you publish my book?
And I'd say, hell, no, it's apain in the ass, it is so hard.
You can't imagine how hard thisis.
But then my wife wrote herfirst novel and she said, well,
you published my book.
And I said, of course, honey,I'll publish your book.
(47:05):
So then I had the idea okay,I'm not going to make a million
bucks on this, but I can make alittle money and help people get
their books out.
We've streamlined that wholeprocess, so that was the whole
idea behind that.
I think we just published our65th book, wow, okay.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
So we're just helping people get their books out.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Okay, well damn, which is an interesting mix,
right?
Maybe that recipe is in BigMama's cookbook.
You started off as an engineer.
Speaker 1 (47:36):
Yeah, recipes in big mama's cookbook.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
He started off as an engineer, yeah.
Then you got into thisemotional intelligence thing
back in 2000, when I don't thinkyeah, were you the only one
using combining those two wordsno emotional intelligence is
from back in the 80s and be ablethat.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
This guy named gardner looked at different
intelligences but it was madepopular by Daniel Goldman who
wrote a book in 1995 calledEmotional Intelligence why it
Matters More Than IQ, and sothat kind of kicked off the big
part of it.
But my mentor, who I learnedall the emotional intelligence
(48:11):
stuff from, she was doing thatwork in the 80s at American
Express, so she was a truepioneer in the emotional
intelligence world.
So I just saw the value, sawthe need, said man, this is it,
this is what I need to be doingto help this industry.
So, that's what started thatwhole deal.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Okay, so engineer emotional intelligence, which
that's an amazing connection,and you know why.
Everybody out there knows why.
To author to now shoot.
What do we call it?
Publisher, publisher, publisher.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (48:49):
And I'm sure the list goes on right, because I mean,
wait, there's one other thing Igot to bring up because you're
in San Antonio, right yeah?
Oh yeah, all right.
So I quit for a while andbecame a full-time actor, oh
yeah.
So I and I wrote a bunch ofplays and acted a bunch.
I co-founded in san antonio themagic theater.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
It's a children's theater there no, I know, the
magic theater did, did youreally?
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah.
I co-founded it with RichardRosen and I was doing those
shows there when I was workingon the Brook Army Medical Center
.
I was the interstitial spacecoordinator on that project.
I was doing theater at nightand Richard and I co-founded the
magic theater I did a lot ofstand-up comedy and I co-founded
the Magic Theater, yeah, and Idid a lot of stand-up comedy and
(49:37):
I did some low-budget moviesand I had a small role on the
old TV show In the Heat of theNight.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
No way.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Oh, that is awesome yeah, I played a redneck auto
mechanic drug dealer on In theHeat of the Night.
That's so good.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
All right, brent, don't tell anybody.
But when I started my company,like not having a real job
anymore, I said, man, in fiveyears I think I'll be in a
situation where I'll have enoughtime to go and get involved in
community theater Because I'vealways been a fan of musicals.
(50:12):
Don't tell, but it's a secret.
I love music not all musicalsbut I can just get into musicals
.
Don't tell, but it's a secret.
I love music not all musicals,but I can just get into musicals
.
And it's always, sinceelementary school, being on
stage and performing has beenthe thing that it's like.
I can't stop thinking about it.
But it's don't do.
That's dumb, that's a waste oftime and right like man it is
(50:35):
you gotta do it right, Like man,you got to do it yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
You've got to do it.
Oh, I'm telling you, it'llfulfill you in so many ways, but
it'll make you a betterpresenter, facilitator, speaker,
all those things.
And so again, remember I talkedabout using all the talents to
this point in whatever yourcareer or your life is.
That's just going to give youmore skills.
Man, do it sooner rather thanlater.
(51:01):
And I know you've got to makemoney.
I get it.
But, man, I'm telling you, Idid that for three years and
tried to make a living at it.
It's a tough way to make aliving, but you don't need to
make a living at it.
Speaker 2 (51:12):
You can just do it for fun.
Exactly, I could sell picturesof my feet and act.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
There you go, you got it.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Okay, so I think you answered this, but I just want
to make sure, because the L&Mfamily out there I remember, if
I think back five years ago, Iwould hear like a podcast.
That's when I started listeningto podcasts and all this stuff
yeah, but they are in adifferent, those human beings
are different.
That experience is notaccessible to me.
I never said it that way, butthat was kind of my thinking.
(51:42):
Looking back, it's absolutelyaccessible, totally.
And so, with your path againengineer, actor, publisher,
emotional intelligence pioneer.
Actor, publisher, emotionalintelligence pioneer what are
the ingredients or the threadsthat human beings have access to
(52:03):
that you are able to weavetogether to have the experience
that you're having and theimpact that you're having?
Speaker 1 (52:10):
I think it boils down to two things.
One is curiosity Again, so whenpeople that are acting
differently than you and youdon't understand it, be curious
about it instead of judgmentalabout it.
And the other is I've alwaysbeen a lifelong learner.
I can't get enough of learningnew things, reading new books.
I probably read 30 or 40 booksa year, easy.
(52:33):
I'm constantly reading andtrying to learn new things, and
I think what that does is youget like all these real weird
just desperate weird things thatare floating around here.
They coalesce into one thing.
So the acting stuff led to.
I do a lot of work with improvand there's this group called
(52:53):
the Applied Improv Network, sowe take improv and apply it to
learning and leadership andconnection and communication and
all those things.
So a lot of the stuff in mycourses and online or live,
they're improv exercises,they're acting exercises, you
see.
So and I don't tell them thatit's that so I've taken this
(53:16):
really weird thing over here andthis cool thing here and kind
of slapped them together and itcreates this new thing.
That's even better.
But in order to bring thosereally weird sort of things that
don't seem to belong together,you've got to know those things.
So you've got to learn a bunchof new things, and then it just
comes together and it happens.
It's so cool to see thatprocess, right.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
So many things Amazing, like curiosity and
lifelong learning.
There's a curiosity, you pursueit, you learn more about it and
it creates the stuff to connectat some point in the future.
It's just the magic.
So folks be curious, ratherdon't be.
(54:03):
Stay curious and then learnabout it.
Spend some time learning aboutwhatever that curiosity is.
It may not pay off today,rather, count on it not paying
off today, but as you go intothe future, the right
circumstances, the magic jujucomes together and you'll be
(54:25):
able to serve people to agreater degree.
I love that.
I stole the yes and exercisebecause I took an improv course
also, which was awesome.
I did nine weeks, but not asserious as you.
It was just a thing that Iwanted to do.
I've still.
I've taken that no, yes, butyes, and it's part of several of
the workshops that I do to helppeople just become aware of the
(54:48):
simple tweak in words that ifwe're not doing it on purpose,
we could be causingdisconnection with other people,
you bet.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I do a lot, we do, yes, and as part of my
innovation and creativity, yes,yes, yeah, we do.
Yeah, it's so cool, and thinkof everybody walked into the big
room with curiosity oh yeah,instead of like why am I here?
This is a waste of time.
I've been doing it this way for30 years.
Lean's nothing new.
(55:18):
Blah, blah, blah.
What if they just came incurious?
What an experience.
That would be right.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
It would be, of the things that they could
accomplish and learn togetherwould be monumental.
I think, yeah, 100%, mr Brent.
This has been amazing and Iknow maybe I don't know if this
is a threat, it might be, but Ithink I need to talk to you some
more.
There's a lot of things that Iknow I can glean from you for
(55:44):
sure, and I would love it.
Speaker 1 (55:47):
Yeah, I would love it man.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Where do people go?
I'm warming you up because I'mgoing to ask you the finale
grand finale question, becauseI'm going to ask you the finale
grand finale question when dopeople go to find you and what
should they like?
Speaker 1 (56:05):
What's the off the menu?
Speaker 2 (56:06):
super secret special service that you can help them
with.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
Okay, wow, so go to brentdarnellcom, connect with me
on LinkedIn.
I would love to connect withyou on LinkedIn, but go to
brentdarnellcom.
That's my website and there'ssome cool stuff there.
I mean, you can check out theonline courses.
There's some free stuff you canaccess just to see if you think
it's something you'd want to do.
But also, if you go to theonline store, there's an
emotional intelligence test.
These are all free.
(56:29):
There's a nutrition survey thattells us how your body's
working.
And see those correlate witheach other so you can look at
your emotional profile, yourphysical profile, and then
there's something called thebody battery inventory as well.
It measures stressors versusrecovery and then it gives you a
number.
So if your number's negative,you either have to build in more
(56:51):
recovery or you have to reduceyour stress.
Well, in this industry, wealways say, okay, reduce stress
where you can, but it's astressful industry, so we opt
into let's build in morerecovery throughout our day, and
there's tons of recoveryactivities that you can work on
and do, and it gives you a bunchof stuff.
In this body battery inventory,you can even create a plan,
(57:13):
because you know you're going tobe stressed.
There's things that are goingto stress you like a meeting a
commute a person.
So create a plan right now tobuild in something to recover
from that stress, either before,during or after that event.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
All right, folks, you heard there's three things.
You need to go check out,download, do the assessment,
because it'll help you, duh, andthen, when you want more, hit
up Mr Brent.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
So, again, if they need more, if I want more of
this, I'll say what do you need?
And if I can give it to you,I'll give it to you.
And even like the onlinecourses, we're still looking,
we're still in the beta test,we're moving out of the beta
test, but if somebody wants tojust check them out, I can give
them some access.
Just let me know what you wantand I'll give you access to
these online courses.
Check them out and give me yourfeedback.
(58:00):
I'll let you access those forfree or really cheap, or tell me
what you want and I'll do mybest to give it to you 10, 4,.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
Amazing, Very generous of you, my friend,
thank you.
So you're ready for the grandcloser?
I'm ready, all right.
So clearly, like folks, if youmissed it, brent's a pretty
amazing human being.
You've done a lot to contributeto transform an industry.
Your path of personal growthand contribution are amazing,
(58:30):
and so I think your question,your answer to this question, is
going to be pretty heavy.
So here's the question.
Your question, your answer tothis question is going to be
pretty heavy.
So here's the question.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
What is the promise you are intended to be?
The promise I am intended to beWow, that's pretty, pretty deep
.
I've been put on this earth tohelp as many people as I can.
That promise really manifestsitself in a lot of different
ways.
This promise has evolved.
I think I was pretty selfish,pretty much of a jerk initially.
(59:06):
So this is a process for me anda self-healing process.
But then I see what this workcan do and be because I've
experienced it.
So I want other people to help,that I can help experience the
same transformation.
And not that I'm sayingeverybody's a jerk.
I'm saying, no matter where youare, you can be better, and
(59:27):
I've just tried to develop somegood tools to help people be the
best version of themselves thatthey can be.
That's what I'm here for.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Amazing.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
I knew it.
Speaker 2 (59:38):
I knew it was going to be awesome.
Jeez, oh my goodness.
Speaker 1 (59:43):
Did you have fun?
Oh man, this was a blast.
I would love to do this againand I'm threatening to come to
LCI, to Congress, so that we cango hang out and maybe go grab a
meal together or something.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Weren't you speaking somewhere at the same time?
Speaker 1 (59:58):
No, not when.
Maybe those two or three weeks.
It's October, right.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
It's October, the week of the 21st.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Yeah, I am doing some speaking those weeks, but I'm
going to try to see if I cansqueeze that in somehow.
Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Oh man, that would be a yes.
I'm going to try to see if Ican squeeze that in somehow.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
Oh man, that would be a yes, and I'd love to also
hang out with Jen as well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, she's the queen .
Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
Oh, she's so great I saw her at AGC and we need to do
some more stuff together.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
Definitely.
Thank you for sticking it outall the way to the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on and, in
appreciation for the gift oftime that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book Becoming the
Promise You're Intended to Be.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
(01:00:52):
There's a link in there.
You just click that and you candownload the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate yousharing.
That increases the likelihoodthat it's going to help one more
person.
(01:01:12):
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be Be kind to
yourself, be cool, and we'lltalk at you next time.
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