May 8, 2025 • 70 mins
What happens when only one side builds a relationship? You end up with a lookout, not a bridge. This profound realization forms the heart of my conversation with Kimberly Sauceda, bestselling author of "Meet Me at the Bridge" and a relationship expert with over 20 years of experience working with organizations like Apple.
Kimberly shares the touching origin story behind her bridge-building philosophy - a spontaneous moment with her teenage son during COVID lockdown that crystallized the truth about mutual relationship investment. "Hi mama, I'm here to build a bridge," he said, mirroring her own approach and revealing the essential nature of two-sided connection.
We explore how leaders unknowingly "pluck the feathers of eagles," transforming potential high-performers into disengaged team members through dismissive behaviors and unclear expectations. As Kimberly wisely notes, "unset expectations are predetermined disappointment." The bridge metaphor extends beyond the workplace into all human connections, offering a framework built on trust, respect, and genuine interest in others.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when we discuss conflict's crucial role in relationship building. Rather than viewing conflict as something to avoid, Kimberly reframes it as an opportunity to strengthen connections through curiosity and listening. High-trust teams are five times more productive precisely because they can navigate disagreement effectively.
For those working under limiting leadership, Kimberly offers practical strategies: decide who you want to be regardless of circumstances, find alternative sources for validation, and develop a personal "board of directors" for perspective and support. This approach maintains integrity while strategically working toward roles where your contributions are valued.
Ready to transform your professional and personal relationships? Start by asking yourself which bridges you're building and whether you're inviting others to build alongside you. Check out Kimberly's book and leadership programs at fromO2U.com to learn how to move from overwhelmed to unstoppable through the power of connection.
Connect with Kimberly at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberlysauceda/
Make yourself a priority and get more done: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing
Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Mama, I'm here to build a bridge.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And that was the moment that I realized oh, if
it's a bridge, both sides haveto build.
If you're in one side building.
You just have a lookout.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
But I'm surrounded by turkeys and you're not
surrounded by turkeys.
You just plucked the feathersof all the eagles around you.
Turkeys, you just plucked thefeathers of all the eagles
around you.
What is going on?
L&m family?
I've got a good one and like,of course, I'm getting like a
double dose of awesomeness.
(00:45):
I've been able to have aconversation and I know we're
going to have futureconversations with our guest
today who is an expert inbuilding high performing
relationships.
She's got over 20 years ofexperience working with top tier
companies like Apple.
So like super, super fancy,real, legit, highly accomplished
individual who now partnerswith leaders, teams and
organizations to optimize theirrelationships for unstoppable
(01:08):
results.
And she's also a best-sellingauthor of Meet Me at the Bridge.
So if you're not intimidated, Ineed to let y'all know out
there I'm a little bitintimidated over you, except
that she's super awesome.
So you're going to get to meetMs Kimberly Sauceda here in a
second, if this is your firsttime here.
This is the Learnings andMissteps podcast, where you get
(01:37):
to see how real people just likeyou are sharing their gifts and
talents to leave this worldbetter than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we about to get to know
Miss Kimberly.
Miss Kimberly, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm great, Jesse, and I've been looking forward to
this.
I'm excited for us to chattoday.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, my goodness, and you got a lot going on.
I know you do, and so I'mgrateful to you for gifting us
with this time.
I know that it's going to, ifit doesn't at least rev some
people's engines, it will atleast start a few fires in
people to get moving and getgoing.
And so I was looking at thestuff, kind of stalking you a
(02:14):
little bit on the socials, and Isaid, oh, I got a nice question
I want to open up with.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I mentioned in the intro, there's a lot of language
about relationships.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So are we talking about dating?
Oh well, here's the funny thing.
So no, this is what I've beentalking about are work
relationships, and so the ideais building a bridge and that
both sides have to build thebridge.
However, here's the funny thingis I have spoken at dozens of
(02:50):
companies and talk now tothousands and thousands of
people, and here's what happensafterwards Inevitably, somebody
comes up to me and they're likethis idea of a bridge, it
actually works for all yourrelationships, because I talk
about a foundation of trust,respect and connection, and
they're like it works reallywell with my kids, which is
(03:10):
amazing, because that's actuallyhow the whole thing started.
And then people also say itworks really well with your
significant other, too, and I'mlike it does.
In fact, and you know the otherbridge that I'm starting to
write about and have beenwriting about ready it's the
(03:31):
bridge you're going to have thelongest, so it works in so many
different facets, jesse, and Ilove that people are seeing that
and coming to me and saying youneed to write another book.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
What about this?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
one and saying how it's transforming their
relationship.
So I am super grateful andhumbled with the reception of
all of it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, oh, my goodness .
Well, so folks, if you didn'tcatch it, the stuff when
somebody is providing anddelivering universal principles,
it translates across.
Of course I was being goofy.
Are we talking about dating?
Because the things you nailedit and I especially love little
(04:11):
nugget here y'all the idea ofthis relationship with yourself,
and so that's something, aproject that Ms Kimberly is
tinkering on right now.
We're going to have to talkabout that in the future.
Really put that one on theshelf.
But primarily, the book isbased on.
The bestselling book is basedon relationships
(04:33):
interdepartmentally, within theprofessional space, if you will,
but those principles areapplicable in familial
relationships, in romanticrelationships and so forth.
Did I get that right?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, that's absolutely right, absolutely yes
, and there wasn't a book thatreally talked about employee to
manager, manager to employee andhow both sides really need to
work together.
That's the kind of the keydifferentiator.
But this book, yes, isabsolutely based on that and it
can be up and down, right.
(05:07):
So how you manage, or also howyou manage up.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Oh man, that's so many people.
Rather, I'll say it this way Idid not understand the value.
First I'll say that I did notunderstand the value of managing
up, and then I didn'tunderstand how to do it
effectively understand the valueof managing up and then I
didn't understand how to do iteffectively.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Jesse, yes, same, and I have.
I have a lot of.
You'll have clients or otherpeople that'll come to me and
say I don't want to play thegame, but it's.
I feel like there's a differentreframe we can have.
Instead of the idea of I don'twant to play the game, there are
certain things that arehappening and it is the traction
that you get when you have asolid relationship with someone,
when you have really good trust.
(05:54):
There are tons of studies fromHarvard Business Review across
the board that have been doneabout how important trust is.
So it's not I don't know.
I wouldn't look at it as like agame.
You're not trying to manipulate.
It's just that relationshipsare so much better when they're
stronger than if they're justlike transactional.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh my God, totally yeah, cause transactional is
disposable, right?
Whatever, I'll just get anotherone.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, yes.
Now, when I used to say that Idon't want to play the game,
looking back I can see that whatI was yes, yes, I find that
(06:41):
either that or I just want to dothe work and I want somebody to
be able to see the work thatI'm doing.
But what we don't realize issometimes your manager has 18
other things that are happening,and so if you tell them the
things that you're doing, or thethings that your team's doing,
you're actually enabling them tobe your advocate.
(07:02):
Right, yes?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, yes, yeah, and it's an uncomfortable thing.
I know for me personally.
A lot of people I know likeadvocating for yourself is
uncomfortable.
I know my upbringing was keepyour head down, work hard, do
the right thing, be polite, playfair and you will get noticed.
Yes, that was true at home, notin the workplace.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Right, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, and so I have that framework going into the
professional space inconstruction.
I'm a construction guy whereit's very competitive and there
are some people that are veryskilled at advocating for
themselves and, even worse, somepeople that are very skilled at
advocating for themselves and,even worse, some people that
have made a career of takingcredit for other people's work.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I mean, that is the ultimate and frustrating.
When there is somebody that istaking credit for someone else's
work, or when there is someoneand they like just kind of
showed up and were part of theproject but they didn't actually
do the thing.
Or I work with several peoplein construction and I did a
whole leadership program for aconstruction company, and
(08:15):
sometimes you'll have someoneand the estimate will be a
little bit off, or hey, theymeant to do this but they didn't
get around to it, and otherpeople come in and pick up the
slack, and so when reviews come,they're like well, I did this,
but it's inaccurate, right.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Physically there they just, but they weren't the ones
solving the problems, theyweren't the ones doing the other
things.
And so, yeah, advocating foryourself can be uncomfortable,
but it's also finding thatconfidence and telling the story
in a way that feels solid foryou.
So sometimes what I work withpeople about is what's that
(08:56):
mindset shift so it doesn't feellike the salesy?
kind of person we talk about.
Okay, what is it that's holdingyou back?
Who is it that you don't wantto be and what's the story
you're kind of creating aboutthat, Because I'll bet that you
maybe had something where you'relike, well, I don't want to be
that guy or that person.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We want to do our L&M shout out, and so this shout
out is going to Mr Amut.
Mr Amut, you are amazing.
We've been able to hang out afew times and you left me this
note and I want to make sure andshare it.
Processes, but what about thehuman side?
(09:42):
That's when I discovered thehashtag no BS Tribe, where two
remarkable individuals teachpeople to embrace vulnerability
every other Saturday morning,which led me to dive into the
emotional bungee jumpers, anexperience that significantly
improved my communication andleadership skills.
(10:06):
Amut, thank you for giving usthe shout out.
Jennifer Lacey and I we do theno BS live stream every other
Saturday and you we need to makeit clear, Amut you are the one
who did the work to build andenhance those communication
skills and leadership skills andall the other skills and folks.
If you're hearing this shoutout, part of the reason is to
(10:27):
motivate you to also send me acomment, leave a review or share
this conversation with yourpeople.
Especially, if you leave me acomment, that gives me the
opportunity to shout you out inthe future.
So now we're going to get backto the conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Maybe something beneath that, where you can kind
of you don't have to be there,but you also don't have to be
not saying the things thatyou're doing we can come to this
confident place where you canadvocate and ask for the things
that you want and need.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yes, you nailed it right In my head.
I had a friend growing up.
You remember Beaker from theMuppets?
Yes, okay, yep, that's who heis in my head, because he's
always me, me, me, me, me.
Look at me, look at me, look atme, me, me, and I'm like fuck
and everybody knew.
Oh, here we go.
We're gonna have to listen tohim brag for 30 minutes about
the same thing.
(11:20):
He bragged about the last sixtimes we saw him.
He bragged about the last sixtimes we saw him.
So in my head, me advocatingfor myself, that was the guy I
didn't want to be.
Yes, now, but my problem, or mymisstep, was that I associated
(11:49):
any style or version ofadvocating for myself with the
negative experience or, I'll sayit clearer, the repulsing
experience I had from me me meme, and so I had to peel that
apart, and what I'm taking isyou.
Your work is in that space.
Yes, yes.
Okay Now, what came first, like, how did you get there?
Did you write a book and thensay, okay, this is how you
should do it, and then youshould do it?
(12:09):
Or you were helping all thesebig, gigantic, awesome companies
and picked up on some stuff andwrote the book.
What was the sequence or thepath for you to be able to have
the insight to help peopleunderstand that there's nuance
and layers to all of thisrelationship and maybe, more
specifically, self-advocacystuff?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, so okay, there are three different parts to
this.
First, what was the kind of thegenesis of had me starting to
look at this?
And I live in California.
We were at this offsite.
It was this incredible,gorgeous venue and I remember
(12:49):
watching like the waves breakagainst the coast as it's coming
in and how peaceful that was,and being in this suite and how
disruptive everything was.
We were doing this visionstrategy mission discussion and
the person that was leading itwas fire hosing everything.
(13:12):
And it was so fascinatingbecause this person,
unintentionally, was deflatingeverything in the room and
saying how no, that doesn't makesense, and no, we can't do this
, no, we can't do this, andshutting everybody down and the
poo poo party.
Yes, yes, it was crazy becauseyou had this group of very
(13:39):
talented people and we're doingthis strategy offsite and we
couldn't come together with astrategy because we weren't
coming together with the rightstrategy, according to the
person leading it.
And it was fascinating becauseon the ride home with one of the
people that I was there with,I'm so interested I felt when I
(14:03):
saw at the the time I was inmarketing and I really felt like
oh if I wasn't in marketing, Ithink I would have been a
psychologist.
I'm so fascinated by why peopledo what they do and how they do
it, and so I almost was havingthis meta experience of watching
how everybody was in that roomand shutting down, and I also
(14:24):
had had a conversation with theleader.
That night.
We went and we walked after abonfire and this person was
perplexed as to what happened.
They're all so smart.
Why are they not offering goodideas, all of the things?
It was?
It was this really interesting?
Oh, they're unaware of what'shappening, they're unaware of
(14:47):
the ripples that they're causing.
And then you know what happens.
We go back and is this strategyimplemented?
No, because people are not onboard, they're not bought in,
they're not all of the things.
And so that's the moment where Istarted thinking, okay, how do
I want to be?
What is it that I'm payingattention to as far as
(15:09):
relationships?
And in that moment, I wasremembering back several years
ago, when I very first startedmanaging and did not do it well,
and we can talk about that in afew minutes.
But so that was the place whereI was like, wow, okay, this
went so catastrophically bad.
I really want to understand it.
So I spent all of this time,even before thinking about a
(15:31):
book, even before any of theother pieces, trying to
understand it, like, how do Iwant to show up?
And I really feel like everyperson that you interact with
has some kind of gift to offer,something that you can really
take from them if you choose tosee it and and and that.
That was the genesis of medoing all of that.
(15:53):
Second, I want to tell you afunny story about my sweet son.
So, spring of 2021, I went intohis room and, jesse, to this
day I have no idea where thiscame from and you're totally
going to laugh, being in theconstruction industry, and
probably all of your people aregoing to laugh.
(16:14):
I know this is not how a bridgeis built.
Okay, so we should just startwith that.
And I don't know where thiscame from, but I walk in.
You have to remember spring2021,.
But I walk in.
You have to remember spring2021, it's COVID, right?
Yeah, my son then is a freshmanin high school.
He's now finishing up hisfreshman year in college.
(16:34):
I walk in, Jesse, and I goka-ching, ka-ching ding, and he
looks at me like I've lost mymind and I say, hey, sweetheart,
I'm here to build a bridge.
Okay, I know that's not likewhat anything sounds like if
you're building a bridge, butwe're just going to go with the
analogy because I love a goodanalogy.
And I said every day I'm goingto come in.
(16:55):
I don't want to talk to youabout what your room looks like.
It looked like a crazy mess.
I don't want to talk to youabout your grades, which, by way
, we're amazing, like super yeahbut I feel like we're
disconnected and I really wantus to have a great bridge.
So every morning I was coming inI was just asking him questions
.
He's a catcher, he playsbaseball.
(17:16):
What's it like to to kind ofhave lunch on zoom with your
baseball buddies?
It's your, your freshman year.
What's it like?
Like how are you doing Just?
How are you doing in general?
How are your friends Like?
What are you finding?
Just connection questions, what?
do you want to be in 20 years,just whatever, anything that
(17:37):
kind of popped into my mind.
We just have a 15 minuteconversation, okay, literally
the next week, jesse, this thingit still gets me.
He walks into my bedroom, whichwas also my office at the time,
and he goes ka-ching, ka-ching,ding.
Hi, mama, I'm here to build abridge.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And that was the moment that I realized.
That was the moment that Irealized, oh, if it's a bridge,
both sides have to build.
If you're on one side building.
You just have a lookout.
Yep, that was the moment whereI was like this this is a thing
that people in organizationsneed to know.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
This is a thing that is going to be a game changer,
because so often you just haveone side.
That's like trying, trying,trying, but if you don't have
the other side, you're just,you're not building that bridge
and so that's when I startedreally thinking about it,
introducing it to the coachingthat I was doing, introducing it
to workshops, and then, severalmonths later, did I start
actually writing a book about it.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Got you.
So you observed it thedisconnect.
You observed the disconnect inthe strategy session.
Which folks I'm willing to betevery LNM family member out
there listening to this has beento an annual strategy retreat,
and more than one, and the besttakeaway was the place they went
(19:10):
was awesome.
It was fun, because thedeployment of the strategy
rarely, rarely happens.
And how do I say this?
To use your story with your sonIn my head, it's a perfect
picture of why he wasreciprocating.
It wasn't because you told himto.
(19:30):
It wasn't because you said I'mgoing to build a bridge, I'm
going to do my half, you need todo your half.
It was because you demonstratedthe behavior of what bridge
building looks like.
You would go to him, have aconversation of your curiosities
and your interest in him as ahuman being, not how he's
(19:52):
performing as your son or as astudent A conversation and
interest of him being a humanbeing which planted a seed for
him to do the same.
And so, going back to, like thestrategy sessions and I'm sure
you've, I know that you've donebazillions and seen this over
and over again I've been in asituation where the boss is
(20:15):
telling everybody how it needsto be what it needs to look like
, what shape, what tone, whatfont, la la la.
And they say and I want this tobe a safe and collaborative
space, collaborate and peopleare like, as long as it's my
idea.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I love the collaboration.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
There's no bridge there right, and so there's no
invitation of hey, comecontribute to this yes and then
there's frustration.
Yes, because they're notcontributing.
It's like how can I soar withthe eagles when I'm surrounded
by turkeys and you're notsurrounded by turkeys?
You just plucked the feathersof all the eagles around you
(20:55):
because of the way you behave.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, it's exactly right.
Have you heard of the jar withthe fleas?
Yes, right, and they'll jump upand jump up, and jump up and
jump up.
But if you put the lid on, thenthey don't continue to jump as
high.
And then, when you take the lidoff, they still don't jump as
high because they've beentrained not to.
(21:22):
And sometimes leaders end uptraining their teams that hey, I
know, I say that things thatyou're doing, so people's
capabilities, how do you help me?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And now I believe, and I really do, wholeheartedly
(22:12):
want them to excel and share alltheir creativity, all their
critical thinking.
But because of the way Ifunction, I'm suffocating that.
How do you help me?
Like a couple of pointers youwould give to a stubborn, blind
person like me.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, so we talk about what potential impact
could be If we've done a 360,it's even easier because then we
see blind spots and we havediscussions with stakeholders
that we've said hey, here's someof the things that are coming
up and here's the impact thatyou're having, because we all
have great intentions, but wesometimes have impact that we
(22:53):
don't realize.
It's that imagine you're aspeedboat and as you're going by
, there are all these ripplesand they're affecting everyone
else, right?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You're not aware of what your wake is, You're still
responsible for your wake.
So one of the things that Italk about is what's the
potential wake that you'recausing there?
Right Potential?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Unintended, but what is it?
So we try to jump into what theother person might be thinking
or feeling.
Yeah, I hear you.
It does sound reallyfrustrating that they're not
coming to you with ideas.
What might be behind some ofthat?
Oh okay, so when you're talkingabout doing strategy sessions,
(23:40):
how is it that you are askingfor them to come to the table?
And I drill down to when areyou bringing your ideas?
When?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
are they?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
bringing their ideas, because if it is somebody that
is just coming to the table andthey already know what their
ideas are and you know they'redoing active listening.
That's not active listening.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Oh, don't even get me started on that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So we basically peel back the onion and I would say
to all your listeners what is it?
What assumptions are you makingabout people?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
assuming that they don't have great ideas.
Okay, well, what led you tobelieve that and how might some
of the stuff that you're doinghave some kind of impact on that
?
And if you go to the tablethinking that they have great
ideas, you're actually going tobe acting differently.
How do you encourage thosegreat ideas and how do you
(24:41):
encourage the implementation ofthose great ideas?
Because, here's the fascinatingthing that's happening right now
.
We're in this economy wherepeople are really nervous.
Right, there have been layoffs,trust is really low and there
is not a ton of transparency.
(25:02):
There's a lot of uncertainty,and so a lot of organizations
are moving to more performanceand accountability metrics, and
I get it.
However, we also need to havethe human capital metrics,
because companies also aresaying there's not a lot of
innovation.
Well, how are you making itokay for people to Experiment
(25:25):
Fail, yes, but that's exactlyright to experiment.
What are you encouraging andhow are you doing that, both
with the mindset that you'recoming in and the things that
you're doing?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yes, oh, I love it.
So two things I want to Threethings the experiment the reason
I like the word experiment isbecause failure is inherent in
that exercise, because I'm goingto run multiple experiments to
get the outcome that I want.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I cannot experiment if failure is, if there's a
punitive response to failure inexperimentation which is very
different than failing orrefusing to comply with the
roles and responsibilities thatI've signed up for.
Those are two different things100% yes.
(26:15):
Yes, but it's easy to like,co-mingle them or me being the
limiter, the limiting leader.
My behavior signals to peopleand I love that you like the
wake.
I am responsible for the impactof the weight, even though I
can't see it Like for me.
The biggest struggle I had wasI didn't understand that, like
(26:37):
in my head, I'm still a skinny,troublemaking plumber from the
South side.
I'm not skinny anymore, I'mstill a troublemaker.
So as I got promoted intodifferent roles and levels of
the organization, I didn'tunderstand that my title
amplified my behaviors and mywords.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And it took a long time for me to really take
ownership of like, hey, dummy,don't say dumb things, because
you're giving people permissionto say and do dumb things Anyhow
.
I know not everybody has thatproblem, but I did so.
That was the second point.
Now, in terms of seeing theissue like the 360 survey folks,
(27:18):
if you don't know what a 360 is, is it's a survey that like,
let's say again, I'm thelimiting leader.
Everybody not my bosses they'regoing to get surveyed.
The customers external to theorganization, they're going to
get surveyed.
The people that report to methat I'm the boss of, they're
going to get surveyed and it'llgive me information from that
(27:42):
demographic or that perspectiveof the stakeholders.
So I get to see.
And here's like the first timeyou want to guess what happened
to me.
The first time is Kimberly.
My bosses were very pleasedwith me.
Everybody else hated me Cause.
Guess what?
All of my focus and effort andenergy was on self-preservation
(28:05):
and pleasing the bosses.
I wasn't doing that on purpose,it's just a function of
whatever.
And then I'm like, oh, that'snot good, like I don't, I'm a
suck up.
Like, basically, this report istelling me I'm a brown noser, I
need to take better care of mypeople.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
And when I made that shift it was ginormous.
So, anyways, my point was the360 survey.
That's the idea, folks, If youhaven't had one and you have an
opportunity to do one, there'sformal, magical ways to do it.
Or come up with a set ofquestions and ask everybody
around you those questions.
You'll learn some stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yes.
So here's the thing, too, isthat what I encourage people to
do is the success of the projectis not just some of the metrics
that you see.
It's also the relationshipsolid team, or working really
well with this other person.
How does that change some ofthe things that you're going to
(29:15):
focus on?
And so the book talks about howyou can build, how you can
strengthen and how you canrepair the bridge, and there are
nine for each of those.
It's in that strengthen piecewhere we talk about what are the
expectations and how do youalign on or how do you really
set good expectations, because Ilike to say unset expectations
(29:40):
are predetermined disappointment.
Oh, 100%, because, if you don'tknow, and again, like all these
bricks, both sides have to play.
I need to understand theexpectations of my manager, my
manager needs to understand myexpectations too, and then
aligning on goals and thenreally having that kind of
(30:03):
growth mindset, that opportunityhey, we can really grow
together.
Exactly what you're talkingabout is so important for having
the really good relationshipthat sometimes people don't
think about.
They're like you know what.
I just need this bid to come inon time.
Forget everybody else, just getme the information and then
(30:27):
sorry, the next person they'regoing to have to deal with if I
cut some corners or whatever sothat I could get it in or the
person that takes the bid andthen actually goes and does the
project is wait, thisinformation didn't include
everything and so now we'regoing to be out of scope and
then it's upset Right.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes, right, yes, the way I think of that, or the way
that lands in my head, isthere's the radical chase of
outcomes.
Yes, deliver the damn estimatewhich causes us to be blind, to
like the unintended consequences, specifically in the
(31:06):
relationship, human interactionstuff.
Because, yes, I got the thingdone, yeah, but I had to put
somebody else on the back burnerand I mean it's not to the
degree that the team deserves,but my butt was on the line to
get it to you by noon and I gotit to you by noon.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
There's going to be collateral damage that plays out
in the human interactionrelationship space.
That's, yeah, exactly, exactly.
That plays out in the humaninteraction, relationship space.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
That's yeah, exactly exactly and that's the thing
that when we have the economylike we do right now, sometimes
people shift to that and justputting on a performance metric
or an accountability metric thatis just mine instead of looking
at the bigger picture and wecan slip into these, just as we
(31:54):
were talking about beforetransactional relationships
instead of really focusing onhow the relationship is.
Here's a funny thing They'veactually found that high trust
teams are five times moreproductive that high trust teams
are five times more productive.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, am I wrong in thinking that high
trust teams means conflict isokay?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Oh, I love that you're asking that question,
because people look at the wordconflict and they think it's
going to be like some loudfisticuffs and all these things.
You have conflict when you'redoing brainstorming, when you
have different kind of opinions.
So when you have a high trustteam, it means it should mean
(32:44):
that it actually enables thoseconflict discussions to be
navigated so much better,because one of the other pieces
when you're looking at repairingthe bridge, it's curiosity,
it's listening, it's ownership,and so you actually can navigate
conflict really well when youhave this basis of really solid
(33:06):
trust, really solid connection.
And then you do dive into thecuriosity Okay, so what is it?
And you're trying to understandwhat the other person is saying
oh, why?
What is it that is so importantabout that for you?
And then when you understandthat maybe the two of you are
actually not as far apart as youthought right, yes.
(33:29):
Yes, find that common groundwhich for any company, there's
an awful lot of common groundright.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yes, yeah, but I'll personalize it for me.
The reason I couldn't see thecommon ground is because I was
in the state of fear, state ofself-preservation.
So I was blinded to hey, we allget the same check and it has
the same signature on it.
Our jobs and the growth of ourcompany and our careers is
(33:58):
contingent on our performancetoday working together.
But because I was so, I need towin at all costs, which meant
even my teammates had to lose,played out in less than optimal
outcomes.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
That's right.
Yeah, yes, and that's why, alot of the times, I say, okay,
let's go back to the foundationof the bridge.
Is there trust?
Is there respect and connectionis okay.
What do you need, jesse, ifwe're working together?
What do you need to be yourbest self at work?
And what do I need to be mybest self at work?
(34:35):
And if I joke that we playtrust chicken sometimes, well,
I'll trust you as soon as youtrust me.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna trust youand you can't do that again.
Right, it's conditional Bothsides need to be building
together, and respect is thissafety that we create.
(34:55):
So you're right when you arefeeling, oh my gosh, I need to
perform and I need, and you'relike, literally I see people
kind of scrunch up and getnervous and, oh my God, things
are not working out out.
I'm so exhale and go back towhat's that foundation a how do
you trust you?
(35:16):
How do you trust that you knowyou're doing the things that you
need to do to show up?
And then also, how do yourebuild some of that trust and
respect?
yes with that other person,potentially throughentially,
through getting really curious,potentially it's also through
really listening to the otherperson, and a lot of time it's
also hey, wow, I caused somefracture in our bridge and I
(35:40):
really want to own that.
Let's have a discussion and I'mgoing to own my part, the other
person's going to own theirpart, and then we have this good
understanding of how we want tomove together, how we want to
move.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You triggered a thought Okay, so I've worked
with the leader.
Or rather, what's your advicehere?
Communicate expectations andnever secure commitments, which
always turns into resentment anddisappointment for them.
(36:15):
And then I, I'm the guy.
Then I decide to change my ways, but there's this shadow, the
wake right.
There's this shadow of damagethat has informed people of what
to expect from me.
Yeah, now I've changed mybehavior, but the shadow doesn't
(36:37):
go away, and so I get reallyimpatient and frustrated because
they're still not trusting meyes what, what?
what's the deal there?
I'm, I'm doing the right.
Why don't they trust me?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
yeah, yeah.
So here's the thing.
They are making an assumption,right, and that's then I hear
the hurt and frustration and hey, Kimberly, I'm doing the right
thing, and so what we look atthere is okay.
Some of this, then, is going tobe packaging and branding.
Right, Because one of myfavorite quotes from Jeff Bezos
(37:15):
is your brand is what people sayabout you when you're not in
the room.
You can change that brand, okay.
So, hey, let's, let's createwhat is that brand that you want
to create?
And then let's over index onsome of the communication and so
great.
(37:35):
Here are a few thingsProactively tell people hey, I'm
wanting to make sure thatthere's transparency here.
My timeline is like this and Iwill let you know if it feels
like there's something that'sgoing to affect that, and I'm
going to proactively talk to youearly on so that there aren't
(37:59):
surprises.
I know that previously therehave been surprises and
frustrations and whatever, andso here's what I'm doing, so
you're just really transparentabout how you're continuing to
do that.
And it does.
It does Because, unfortunately,our brain is primed to remember
(38:20):
the like, the negative.
We then can proactively reprimepeople's brains to think about
it in a positive way.
right, sometimes it's also justresetting.
Hey, let's talk about how wework together.
How would you like to beinformed if there are going to
be misses?
(38:40):
How would you like to cool?
You know what?
It's really important to methat you feel like you can trust
this process again.
Maybe we were doing likemonthly status.
What if I also, just every twoweeks, send you an email status
on how it is Right?
(39:00):
So it's over going on it andit's also I would work with the
other person internally to belike okay, I want you to think
about where you're getting wins,where these different things.
So you're also and I'm going tonerd out on the brain for just
a second being called thereticular activating system, and
(39:25):
your brain primes itself.
So if you start looking for theways that it's working instead
of the ways it's not working,yes.
You're going to set yourself upto be successful, because if
your brain's always oh, they'renever going to believe that I've
changed.
You're going to see that andyou're going to also,
unfortunately, act accordingly,unintentionally.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yep, self-confirming bias right, oh there, it is
there.
It is there and you said it.
We can program it.
Totally, yeah, yes, okay.
So now I'm the flea.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I'm the flea in the jar and and I got one of those
limiting leaders.
What do I do?
Do I just shrink to fit in theconditions?
Do I quit?
Do I tell them to pound sand?
What pointers do you have forme?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
The two things that I get most often when I do a talk
.
Jesse, that question.
And the other one is like do Ijust burn the bridge?
At what point?
Like I've got friends that havegasoline and matches, and like
I'm ready ready to go sometimes.
So those are the two questionsI get is if I'm a flea or what
(40:45):
bridges should I just burn down?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Kimberly yes.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Okay.
So the flea question.
This is all.
Who do you want to be right andhow do you want to be Okay?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
And I had an executive and this person was
just in a really hard, hard,hard space.
Jesse, we know, as a coach, Itake confidentiality very, very
important.
There is no way that they canfigure out who this is, so I'm
not breaking any kind ofconfidentiality here.
This client was just in areally, really hard space with a
(41:28):
limiting leader, was just in areally, really hard space with a
limiting leader andconsistently trying to do the
right thing and to show up in anincredible place.
And actually it's funny because, as I'm saying this, I actually
can think of five differentclients I've had in this space.
Right, it's a common thing I'vebeen in this space, right?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
And so you need to decide.
Who do I want to be?
I'll tell you three things.
Right, who do I want to be?
Right, Fundamentally, am Igoing to shrink or not?
And my makeup is just don'tshrink, it's just in my DNA.
The second piece, though, iswhere do I get my value and
(42:10):
validation?
So it doesn't wreck meinternally.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I like that.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Because that kind of a leader can wreck you and
change how you feel about youand your confidence and stuff
like that.
And I'm not going to lie likeJesse.
That was a big misstep for meand huge learning is I was in, I
had a really horriblychallenging manager that said
(42:38):
some really horribly challengingthings and I pretzeled myself
to try to prove that I was thisincredible leader.
And again and again and again,and so I started looking for
other ways that I would knowthat I was doing the right thing
, because it wasn't going tocome from this leader.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
And so I just needed to kind of accept that.
The other piece is then indoing that.
The third thing is, I would sayget your own kind of board of
directors.
Yes, you then navigate that soit's not this one person that
potentially is ruining yourreputation.
And then you can and I've hadseveral clients you can move
(43:25):
yourself into another role whereyou are valued.
It's such a core thing.
We want to be valued, we wantto be seen, and so you just you
have to realize, like, where doyou get that value?
And that it doesn't necessarilycome from this person, who may
or may not be the best equippedmanager.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Oh, the one thing that stands out is find another
source for your validation,because you can absolutely do
that, and I just love the wayyou phrase that.
And no wonder people say, man,this stuff applies at home too.
Oh yeah, I've been in thoserelationships where she's just
(44:10):
never going to be happy and very, very unhealthy, lost myself
entirely trying to contortmyself to make her happy.
Yes, and it was impossible.
And so, before I burnt anddemolished the bridge, I started
finding another source to fillmy cup from, and that was family
(44:32):
.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
And then I burnt the bridge, okay.
So as far as romanticrelationships go, I feel like
there isn't one person that'sgoing to be the end, all
everything for you.
This is going to be the end,all everything for you.
This is going to be the personI do everything with.
I think it's almost an unfairthing to think that one person
(44:55):
can be everything.
So find some of those piecesfrom your friends, from your
family, from work, fromdifferent things, and also find
that phenomenal person thatlifts you up, that you have this
incredible bond with.
Person that lifts you up, thatyou have this incredible bond
with that loves you deeply andit's, it's, there's like,
(45:18):
whatever it takes a village toraise a child, I think it also
just takes a village for you tobe a whole person too.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
You know, yeah, yeah, which speaks to the personal
advisory board.
Like for me, I, my personaladvisory council, has been
something I stumbled on, I don'tknow eight or nine years ago,
but it was like man, I want togrow, I want to learn, I want to
improve, I want to serve better, and there's a whole lot of
gaps that I got and it can't oneperson fill those gaps.
(45:44):
So I said, okay, I'm going totalk this person for this, this
person for this, this person,and it moves around.
Yeah, but it's been tremendousit's been, and so the same thing
.
Right, it's okay.
Where do I get?
Speaker 1 (46:01):
my validation and support and reinforcement.
From there we go.
There's another clue Exactlyyes, yes, and it makes complete
sense, right?
We go to people for how do Ifix my car?
To a doctor, to finances, toall these different things.
Of course, it makes completesense to get your own personal
and professional board, andhere's the reason it's so, so,
(46:22):
so important at work.
Again, we go back to what yourbrand is.
It's a critical thing that youknow what your brand is.
If you don't and for a while Ididn't I didn't pay attention to
it.
I had the same thing that yourparents did you just head down,
work hard and everything good isjust going to happen to you.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
It's important to know, because everybody has
blind spots and you can'taddress them.
Silly sentence you can'taddress a blind spot unless you
know what the blind spot is.
You also can't know the blindspot if you don't have people
that are willing to speak truthto you.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Oof, yes, yes, yes.
Which takes us back to trustand conflict like those things.
I am a heavy advocate forconflict.
It's my favorite place to beand I'm probably maybe overly
comfortable with it because Iknow and I spent years and years
(47:27):
and years dancing so as not tooffend anybody.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
And that is misery for me.
So now I just go straight at it,because I know on the other
side of conflict is amazingmagical stuff.
Like for one thing for sure, inevery conflict situation I went
after, the one thing thatalways happens is I am 100%
(47:58):
clear.
It may not be in the directionthat I want it to be, but I am
100% clear that that person isnot in favor of the thing that
we were dancing around.
And so good.
Now, if you're not going topartner me on me with that, no
problem, I'll find somebody elseinstead of wondering and him
Hein and secret message andpassive jabs yeah, that kind of
(48:24):
junk.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Do this go?
How do you want to do this ornot?
Yeah, I'm getting the sensethat this is not something
you're as interested in today asyou thought you were last month
.
And I've had people like damn,I'm like like no judgment, yeah,
this one, it looks like fromhere and I just need to know.
And I've had people say, jess,I did, I wanted to be
(48:49):
collaborating, but I don't haveas much time as I thought I did,
so I'm not going to be able togo at the rate that you go.
Cool, I still love you andwhenever you want to get back on
the train, let me know.
But I got to go and I'll gofind somebody else that can run
with me and it's good.
Go, and I'll go find somebodyelse that can run with me and
(49:12):
it's good, instead of tiptoeingand fearing and oh my God, what.
It's almost never been bad.
But again, the 100% thing that,on my end anyways, is when I go
after the conflict on the otherside of the conflict is I know
for sure where people stand andwhat the next step is.
Most of the time it's reallyawesome and amazing.
Sometimes it's icky, but I'mclear, I don't have to wonder
(49:34):
anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
And you know what that does is that builds the
trust.
Yes and it also builds therespect, because it's hilarious
that you say dancing becauseSunday.
It's hilarious that you saydancing because Sunday I co-led
(49:56):
a workshop with another coachand we called it Dancing with
the Divide.
And it was all about conflictand how you can advocate
conflict through some curiosityand confidence and communication
.
So I love that.
So I love that.
(50:17):
And it's really fascinating tome because so many people are
conflict averse because they'renervous about what's going to
happen.
And you bridge analogy.
They're worried that, hey, Icause a fracture and the bridge
is going to break down and we'renever going to be able to get
it back together.
And the irony is it's exactlythe opposite, because once you
actually go and pay attention,you know what?
Jesse?
I'm going to tell you a quickstory.
(50:38):
So January of last year I did anoffsite with this team and they
was a leadership team and theywere just, they were in such
heavy conflict and they we wentoff site for a few days to maybe
an hour and a half, two hoursinto the session I said, ok,
(50:59):
time out.
I know we've got all thesethings planned and activities
and great stuff.
We need to sit down andactually just talk.
We need to sit down andactually just talk, because
there's so much conflict andavoidance and frustration across
the board.
We're not even going to be ableto do any of these exercises
(51:23):
because I was thinking we werein a different place and we need
to go to square one.
We were in a different place andwe need to go to square one.
We need to really back up, andwhat's really cool is we went
through all of this stuff.
We reset, literally on the fly,changed how the whole day and a
half was going to go.
I don't know if you've ever hadthat, but that's also really
(51:45):
good learning, by the way.
Like you may have the best ofplans, but then you get there
and you need to adapt, you needto pivot, you need to pay
attention to what's in the fieldwith everybody else, and so we
called a timeout.
I'm not a big football person,but I do know this one.
We called an audible and changedcourse, made a few different
(52:07):
play adjustments.
And I, changed course, made afew different play adjustments.
And I just heard back from thema month ago and this SVP said
Kimberly, you know what?
The stuff that we did on thatoffsite is still paying
dividends Because we go and yougo through all of the rupture
and you actually do.
(52:27):
I hate even calling it the hardthing because I feel like that
primes the brain the wrong way,but when you navigate through
the conflict that you've justbeen avoiding, we then get to a
better place because therewasn't trust.
There were all these sideconversations there wasn't
respect, there was cattiness,there were just all these things
(52:49):
that people weren't workingwell together and there was no
connection and people weremaking massive assumptions.
And now you actually have thisgroup that is working so well
together and when they faceother things, the bridge is
stronger because they know theycan go through the rupture.
They know they can go throughthe rupture, they know they can
(53:11):
repair, they know they have thattrust and now every time you go
through the conflict itactually improves the bridge for
them and I was like I'm sohappy.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
The ability and the courage to sense.
Wait a minute.
This is not the stuff I gotplanned for this workshop or
this experience.
Yes, these conditions, thisain't going to work.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
So that's experience that you brought to the table,
which is amazing.
And then the courage to say wegot to have some hard
conversations, y'all Like weain't going to be playing games
that ain't going to get usnowhere.
It'll be fun, it'll beentertaining, but it's not going
to have any impact, so we'regoing to go back.
Applause to you, ms Kim,because I know how scary and
(53:58):
also how exhilarating that isyes, because like you were there
, like, oh, I knew it.
Finally, these people arehaving the conversation.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yes, yeah oh right, you do have to say okay, ego,
we're gonna set you over here.
I understand, it was thisbeautiful plan of a project.
We're going to scrap this partand we're going to do this, and
I feel like that's also a thing,as leaders, that you need to do
.
When you're not connecting withyour team, you need to say okay
(54:33):
, we're going to have a momentof humility here and we need we
need to do something differentinstead of just charging through
and being like you don't get, apass you don't get.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
we don't have license to blame them, if we can see it
.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yes, when I first started managing, I was like
I've got this.
I've had some great managers,I've had some bad managers, I
know how to do this and I hadthis amazing person that I had
hired and I thought we're goingto kill it.
This is going to be amazing andthe first several months
(55:11):
incredible.
And then and we were workingside by side and our ROI return
on investment the audience wasgrowing.
This is back when I was runningmarketing at a startup and I
was on fire so excited.
And then I thought, hey, I didthe golden rule of managing
(55:33):
Jessie.
I'm going to manage her the waythat I would want to be managed
Well.
In my mind, that's trust andrespect.
So I wouldn't want somebodysitting with me every day that
would feel like you don't reallytrust me on my own, you don't
respect my ability.
So I said and this is her realname because it ends really well
I said, hey, megan, you'regoing to now own all of this
(55:56):
stuff.
And she originally said great,that's amazing.
So she goes off Within a matterof weeks.
Does the ROI start tanking Likeaudience?
We were going engagement thisway?
Nope, roi off a cliff.
Things are being turned in andI had no idea why I was so
(56:19):
confused, thinking, hey, we wereworking really well together.
You're not turning stuff in.
Roi is getting so much, justit's crummy, we're not getting
conversion.
All of the metrics justplummeted.
So first I was really upsetwith her and blaming her.
(56:39):
And then I was really upsetwith me and blaming me and just
like you go into that kind ofwhirlpool of catastrophic
thinking I'm a horrible manager,I'm never going to be able to
do this.
What's wrong To thinking, oh myGod, I may not be great at
marketing, mind you, I've beengreat at marketing before, but
now it's just totally gone.
(57:00):
And then I paused because myfavorite manager is my
grandfather and he was an expertat managing and one of the
things that he did best, Jesse,was connect with people and find
out what they actually needed.
So I sat down with Megan and atfirst we were talking about the
(57:25):
ROI and why the ads weren'tkind of coming in, why she
wasn't delivering stuff.
We talked about why the ROI wastanking, why she wasn't posted,
like all these different things, and you hear that keyword.
I was using why, which is not agreat word, right.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
It's accusatory.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
It is right.
It's got all this built-incrummy stuff to it.
So I first started changingthat and started asking what and
how questions.
I second also started askingher questions about her and what
was going on for her.
Yep, crazy thing.
Here's what she needed.
She wanted a 10 minute check-inevery morning and a five minute
(58:07):
checkout.
She wanted to know howeverything was going.
She wanted to know.
Hey, she wanted to tell me thatI'm going to be doing.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
She also wanted validation.
At the end, hey, this is what Idid.
Did it work?
She wanted to connect about her.
At the time, boyfriend Ben, nowhusband, father of her adorable
child.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
We started doing that and everything turned around.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
Came back.
Everything came back, andhere's the thing.
Speaker 1 (58:37):
Lest anybody think that she is a high maintenance
person.
She's actually not.
She is a VP of marketing,absolutely killing it now.
Right, and she was a rock star.
I just wasn't managing her theway that she needed to be
managed.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
This was a me thing.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
Once I sat down and talked to her and connected with
her, everything changed andthis is such a game changer
thing.
I can't tell you the number ofpeople.
I got a workshop about how youconnect with people.
I've talked to executives.
Here's how you connect withpeople.
I've talked to executives.
Here's how you connect withpeople.
It is literally turned around.
(59:20):
I've had countless executivessay I was going to fire this
person and then we startedhaving this connection and it is
completely different.
It changes the whole dynamicsof the relationship and it is
not the heavy lift that peoplethink it is to build
relationships.
It is the crucial lift to buildthe relationships.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
I love that.
I love the crucial lift.
So, summary trust lives inconflict.
Conflict avoided is conflictmultiplied.
Yes, understand what peoplevalue and appreciate.
So here's a question that Ilike to ask and, similar to you
(01:00:06):
I did it wrong for so damn longbut super simple question that
I'd love to get your thoughts on.
I ask people on a highfrequency, especially like
people I'm working with directreports and so forth it's this
how can I better serve you?
Yes, and people.
(01:00:26):
When I asked that question,people were like oh, what do you
mean?
Well, we're partnering on thisthing, we're working together,
like our success isinterdependent.
How can I better serve you?
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
What do you need?
Do you need resources?
Do you need time?
Do you need to like?
Tell me, tell me what it is.
I'm not saying I'm going to doall of it, but if I know I can
at least work towards gettingthose resources or whatever it
is to better serve you.
Because if I better serve you,the outcomes for all of us are
going to be greater.
And I throw that question outthere because I used to have a
(01:01:04):
mindset of oh my God, I got togo hold everybody's hand and I'm
supposed to know their stupiddog's name, and I hate freaking
dogs.
And it's not that, it's simplydiscovering how to better serve
them.
And if I ask that question thatway, that's already an immense
(01:01:24):
deposit in the emotional bankaccount.
That starts the trust meterrunning.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
I love that.
I absolutely love that, and Ithink that part of the key of
that is is the what do you need?
Right, and asking it as a serve.
I think it's also reallyimportant to ask, when somebody
comes to you and they're reallyfrustrated, to also ask what is
(01:01:53):
it that you want in this moment?
Because sometimes an event.
sometimes they really actuallywant to be appreciated.
Sometimes they want a solution.
By the way, this is a greatthing to ask you.
We're talking aboutrelationships at home and other
places.
It's a great, significant otherway to ask it.
It's a great way, if you haveteens or younger kids to ask it.
(01:02:15):
It's actually a great thing toask as a to a friend, right?
What is it that you want?
What is it that I can do inthis moment to your point that's
going to serve you best?
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yes, right, yeah, yeah, all right.
So my guess is, for anybodythat's oh my God, I need more of
this.
They can go and get Me at theBridge and get the bricks, the
nine bricks, and all theframeworks and mental models and
directions and magical formulasto enhancing their
(01:02:48):
relationships.
And do they go to Amazon?
Do they go to your website?
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Amazon is a great place to go.
Amazon works really well.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Okay, there you go.
Amazon works really well.
Okay, there you go, and I'llmake sure that we get a link in
the show notes down there sopeople can access that.
Now I kind of brushed over this, but you are a certified coach.
I mean, you've said it, youcoach, you help people with
workshops, but you are acertified coach, a bestselling
author.
You've worked with ginormous Imean hell, apple, like biggest
(01:03:17):
damn company.
Nobody doesn't know Apple.
So you come with a ton ofcredibility and am I speaking
out of turn by saying you doserve companies, individuals,
teams, nonprofit, privateenterprise, all of the above
You're happy to help them gettheir stuff more gooder.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Exactly yes, I have my leadership program.
So I have a leadership programthat came out of this book.
I have done the leadershipprogram with huge organizations
to level up their directors.
I've also run through anonprofit and to help with their
leadership team.
(01:04:00):
I have several clients that areC-level clients as well.
I have clients that arefounders and then middle
management.
So I generally help across theboard and across a number of
industries and globally.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
So yeah, of course you do, duh Awesome.
So we'll make sure we'll getyour website.
Which website, if they don'twant to wait and they want to
hear it.
What's your website?
Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Yeah, so the name of my company is O2U, so from
overwhelmed to unstoppable, andI help create unstoppable teams.
So the website is wwwfrom O forthe overwhelmed, to like the
number two, u for unstoppablecom, so from O2Ucom, o2ucom.
Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Oh, I love that From O2Ucom, with the two in the
middle.
Yes, oh, that is that's.
You must know.
You must be marketing, You're amarketing person.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
I mean storytelling, branding, creating connections.
Those are jam.
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yes, oh man.
Well, we've been having so muchfun talking about fleas, we
didn't get to talk about theother book, and so maybe what do
you say?
We just kind of drop a teaserthere and let people know that
there is another book currentlybeing baked.
Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Yeah, yes, yep, working on it as we speak.
So, yes, yes, there will benine bricks, and a few will be
the same and most of them willbe different.
Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
so nice, very, and this is the bridge within us yes
, yeah, it's the bridge back toyourself.
Oh my goodness, I'm gettingchills, just thinking about it.
I'm not going to tell y'allanymore.
You're going to have to comeback to hear part two of when
that book is ready to launch.
We'll definitely be talkingagain, ms Kimberly, and so I got
(01:06:11):
the final question for you,okay?
And given all your breadth ofexperience and your heart, it's
clear to me how much of yourheart you put into the work that
you do, the things that youobserve and see.
I'm excited to hear your answer.
So here's the question.
Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
All right, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
What is the promise you are intended to be?
Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Oh, I love this question, the promise I am
intended to be.
Oh, I love this question, thepromise I am intended to be.
I think it is all aboutcreating those magical
connections with people.
I told you that I reallybelieve that every person has
some kind of a gift.
It is creating that kind ofmagical connection between
(01:07:00):
people, creating an incrediblebridge, creating an incredible
learning more about them, reallyseeing them, appreciating them.
There's something just magicalabout those different
connections.
Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
So, yeah, it'd be something around like creating
connection, creating magicalconnection, yeah, oh, I love
that and you're doing it Notonly like for the people you
connect with, me being one ofthem, but you're also helping
other people do that, so you'reliving that promise I wasn't.
I'm not surprised at all at howtouching your answer or your
(01:07:40):
response is.
Did you have fun?
Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
I had so much fun.
I'm already looking forward tocoming back.
Jesse, we will definitely dothis again.
Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Yes, ma'am.
Hi Mama, I'm here to build a bridge.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And that was the moment that I realized oh, if
it's a bridge, both sides haveto build.
If you're in one side building.
You just have a lookout.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
But I'm surrounded by turkeys and you're not
surrounded by turkeys.
You just plucked the feathersof all the eagles around you.
Turkeys, you just plucked thefeathers of all the eagles
around you.
What is going on?
L&m family?
I've got a good one and like,of course, I'm getting like a
double dose of awesomeness.
(00:45):
I've been able to have aconversation and I know we're
going to have futureconversations with our guest
today who is an expert inbuilding high performing
relationships.
She's got over 20 years ofexperience working with top tier
companies like Apple.
So like super, super fancy,real, legit, highly accomplished
individual who now partnerswith leaders, teams and
organizations to optimize theirrelationships for unstoppable
(01:08):
results.
And she's also a best-sellingauthor of Meet Me at the Bridge.
So if you're not intimidated, Ineed to let y'all know out
there I'm a little bitintimidated over you, except
that she's super awesome.
So you're going to get to meetMs Kimberly Sauceda here in a
second, if this is your firsttime here.
This is the Learnings andMissteps podcast, where you get
(01:37):
to see how real people just likeyou are sharing their gifts and
talents to leave this worldbetter than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we about to get to know
Miss Kimberly.
Miss Kimberly, how are you?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I'm great, Jesse, and I've been looking forward to
this.
I'm excited for us to chattoday.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Oh, my goodness, and you got a lot going on.
I know you do, and so I'mgrateful to you for gifting us
with this time.
I know that it's going to, ifit doesn't at least rev some
people's engines, it will atleast start a few fires in
people to get moving and getgoing.
And so I was looking at thestuff, kind of stalking you a
(02:14):
little bit on the socials, and Isaid, oh, I got a nice question
I want to open up with.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I mentioned in the intro, there's a lot of language
about relationships.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So are we talking about dating?
Oh well, here's the funny thing.
So no, this is what I've beentalking about are work
relationships, and so the ideais building a bridge and that
both sides have to build thebridge.
However, here's the funny thingis I have spoken at dozens of
(02:50):
companies and talk now tothousands and thousands of
people, and here's what happensafterwards Inevitably, somebody
comes up to me and they're likethis idea of a bridge, it
actually works for all yourrelationships, because I talk
about a foundation of trust,respect and connection, and
they're like it works reallywell with my kids, which is
(03:10):
amazing, because that's actuallyhow the whole thing started.
And then people also say itworks really well with your
significant other, too, and I'mlike it does.
In fact, and you know the otherbridge that I'm starting to
write about and have beenwriting about ready it's the
(03:31):
bridge you're going to have thelongest, so it works in so many
different facets, jesse, and Ilove that people are seeing that
and coming to me and saying youneed to write another book.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
What about this?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
one and saying how it's transforming their
relationship.
So I am super grateful andhumbled with the reception of
all of it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, oh, my goodness .
Well, so folks, if you didn'tcatch it, the stuff when
somebody is providing anddelivering universal principles,
it translates across.
Of course I was being goofy.
Are we talking about dating?
Because the things you nailedit and I especially love little
(04:11):
nugget here y'all the idea ofthis relationship with yourself,
and so that's something, aproject that Ms Kimberly is
tinkering on right now.
We're going to have to talkabout that in the future.
Really put that one on theshelf.
But primarily, the book isbased on.
The bestselling book is basedon relationships
(04:33):
interdepartmentally, within theprofessional space, if you will,
but those principles areapplicable in familial
relationships, in romanticrelationships and so forth.
Did I get that right?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, that's absolutely right, absolutely yes
, and there wasn't a book thatreally talked about employee to
manager, manager to employee andhow both sides really need to
work together.
That's the kind of the keydifferentiator.
But this book, yes, isabsolutely based on that and it
can be up and down, right.
(05:07):
So how you manage, or also howyou manage up.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Oh man, that's so many people.
Rather, I'll say it this way Idid not understand the value.
First I'll say that I did notunderstand the value of managing
up, and then I didn'tunderstand how to do it
effectively understand the valueof managing up and then I
didn't understand how to do iteffectively.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Jesse, yes, same, and I have.
I have a lot of.
You'll have clients or otherpeople that'll come to me and
say I don't want to play thegame, but it's.
I feel like there's a differentreframe we can have.
Instead of the idea of I don'twant to play the game, there are
certain things that arehappening and it is the traction
that you get when you have asolid relationship with someone,
when you have really good trust.
(05:54):
There are tons of studies fromHarvard Business Review across
the board that have been doneabout how important trust is.
So it's not I don't know.
I wouldn't look at it as like agame.
You're not trying to manipulate.
It's just that relationshipsare so much better when they're
stronger than if they're justlike transactional.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Oh my God, totally yeah, cause transactional is
disposable, right?
Whatever, I'll just get anotherone.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Yes, yes.
Now, when I used to say that Idon't want to play the game,
looking back I can see that whatI was yes, yes, I find that
(06:41):
either that or I just want to dothe work and I want somebody to
be able to see the work thatI'm doing.
But what we don't realize issometimes your manager has 18
other things that are happening,and so if you tell them the
things that you're doing, or thethings that your team's doing,
you're actually enabling them tobe your advocate.
(07:02):
Right, yes?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yes, yes, yeah, and it's an uncomfortable thing.
I know for me personally.
A lot of people I know likeadvocating for yourself is
uncomfortable.
I know my upbringing was keepyour head down, work hard, do
the right thing, be polite, playfair and you will get noticed.
Yes, that was true at home, notin the workplace.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Right, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, and so I have that framework going into the
professional space inconstruction.
I'm a construction guy whereit's very competitive and there
are some people that are veryskilled at advocating for
themselves and, even worse, somepeople that are very skilled at
advocating for themselves and,even worse, some people that
have made a career of takingcredit for other people's work.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I mean, that is the ultimate and frustrating.
When there is somebody that istaking credit for someone else's
work, or when there is someoneand they like just kind of
showed up and were part of theproject but they didn't actually
do the thing.
Or I work with several peoplein construction and I did a
whole leadership program for aconstruction company, and
(08:15):
sometimes you'll have someoneand the estimate will be a
little bit off, or hey, theymeant to do this but they didn't
get around to it, and otherpeople come in and pick up the
slack, and so when reviews come,they're like well, I did this,
but it's inaccurate, right.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Physically there they just, but they weren't the ones
solving the problems, theyweren't the ones doing the other
things.
And so, yeah, advocating foryourself can be uncomfortable,
but it's also finding thatconfidence and telling the story
in a way that feels solid foryou.
So sometimes what I work withpeople about is what's that
(08:56):
mindset shift so it doesn't feellike the salesy?
kind of person we talk about.
Okay, what is it that's holdingyou back?
Who is it that you don't wantto be and what's the story
you're kind of creating aboutthat, Because I'll bet that you
maybe had something where you'relike, well, I don't want to be
that guy or that person.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
We want to do our L&M shout out, and so this shout
out is going to Mr Amut.
Mr Amut, you are amazing.
We've been able to hang out afew times and you left me this
note and I want to make sure andshare it.
Processes, but what about thehuman side?
(09:42):
That's when I discovered thehashtag no BS Tribe, where two
remarkable individuals teachpeople to embrace vulnerability
every other Saturday morning,which led me to dive into the
emotional bungee jumpers, anexperience that significantly
improved my communication andleadership skills.
(10:06):
Amut, thank you for giving usthe shout out.
Jennifer Lacey and I we do theno BS live stream every other
Saturday and you we need to makeit clear, Amut you are the one
who did the work to build andenhance those communication
skills and leadership skills andall the other skills and folks.
If you're hearing this shoutout, part of the reason is to
(10:27):
motivate you to also send me acomment, leave a review or share
this conversation with yourpeople.
Especially, if you leave me acomment, that gives me the
opportunity to shout you out inthe future.
So now we're going to get backto the conversation.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Maybe something beneath that, where you can kind
of you don't have to be there,but you also don't have to be
not saying the things thatyou're doing we can come to this
confident place where you canadvocate and ask for the things
that you want and need.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yes, you nailed it right In my head.
I had a friend growing up.
You remember Beaker from theMuppets?
Yes, okay, yep, that's who heis in my head, because he's
always me, me, me, me, me.
Look at me, look at me, look atme, me, me, and I'm like fuck
and everybody knew.
Oh, here we go.
We're gonna have to listen tohim brag for 30 minutes about
the same thing.
(11:20):
He bragged about the last sixtimes we saw him.
He bragged about the last sixtimes we saw him.
So in my head, me advocatingfor myself, that was the guy I
didn't want to be.
Yes, now, but my problem, or mymisstep, was that I associated
(11:49):
any style or version ofadvocating for myself with the
negative experience or, I'll sayit clearer, the repulsing
experience I had from me me meme, and so I had to peel that
apart, and what I'm taking isyou.
Your work is in that space.
Yes, yes.
Okay Now, what came first, like, how did you get there?
Did you write a book and thensay, okay, this is how you
should do it, and then youshould do it?
(12:09):
Or you were helping all thesebig, gigantic, awesome companies
and picked up on some stuff andwrote the book.
What was the sequence or thepath for you to be able to have
the insight to help peopleunderstand that there's nuance
and layers to all of thisrelationship and maybe, more
specifically, self-advocacystuff?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah, so okay, there are three different parts to
this.
First, what was the kind of thegenesis of had me starting to
look at this?
And I live in California.
We were at this offsite.
It was this incredible,gorgeous venue and I remember
(12:49):
watching like the waves breakagainst the coast as it's coming
in and how peaceful that was,and being in this suite and how
disruptive everything was.
We were doing this visionstrategy mission discussion and
the person that was leading itwas fire hosing everything.
(13:12):
And it was so fascinatingbecause this person,
unintentionally, was deflatingeverything in the room and
saying how no, that doesn't makesense, and no, we can't do this
, no, we can't do this, andshutting everybody down and the
poo poo party.
Yes, yes, it was crazy becauseyou had this group of very
(13:39):
talented people and we're doingthis strategy offsite and we
couldn't come together with astrategy because we weren't
coming together with the rightstrategy, according to the
person leading it.
And it was fascinating becauseon the ride home with one of the
people that I was there with,I'm so interested I felt when I
(14:03):
saw at the the time I was inmarketing and I really felt like
oh if I wasn't in marketing, Ithink I would have been a
psychologist.
I'm so fascinated by why peopledo what they do and how they do
it, and so I almost was havingthis meta experience of watching
how everybody was in that roomand shutting down, and I also
(14:24):
had had a conversation with theleader.
That night.
We went and we walked after abonfire and this person was
perplexed as to what happened.
They're all so smart.
Why are they not offering goodideas, all of the things?
It was?
It was this really interesting?
Oh, they're unaware of what'shappening, they're unaware of
(14:47):
the ripples that they're causing.
And then you know what happens.
We go back and is this strategyimplemented?
No, because people are not onboard, they're not bought in,
they're not all of the things.
And so that's the moment where Istarted thinking, okay, how do
I want to be?
What is it that I'm payingattention to as far as
(15:09):
relationships?
And in that moment, I wasremembering back several years
ago, when I very first startedmanaging and did not do it well,
and we can talk about that in afew minutes.
But so that was the place whereI was like, wow, okay, this
went so catastrophically bad.
I really want to understand it.
So I spent all of this time,even before thinking about a
(15:31):
book, even before any of theother pieces, trying to
understand it, like, how do Iwant to show up?
And I really feel like everyperson that you interact with
has some kind of gift to offer,something that you can really
take from them if you choose tosee it and and and that.
That was the genesis of medoing all of that.
(15:53):
Second, I want to tell you afunny story about my sweet son.
So, spring of 2021, I went intohis room and, jesse, to this
day I have no idea where thiscame from and you're totally
going to laugh, being in theconstruction industry, and
probably all of your people aregoing to laugh.
(16:14):
I know this is not how a bridgeis built.
Okay, so we should just startwith that.
And I don't know where thiscame from, but I walk in.
You have to remember spring2021,.
But I walk in.
You have to remember spring2021, it's COVID, right?
Yeah, my son then is a freshmanin high school.
He's now finishing up hisfreshman year in college.
(16:34):
I walk in, Jesse, and I goka-ching, ka-ching ding, and he
looks at me like I've lost mymind and I say, hey, sweetheart,
I'm here to build a bridge.
Okay, I know that's not likewhat anything sounds like if
you're building a bridge, butwe're just going to go with the
analogy because I love a goodanalogy.
And I said every day I'm goingto come in.
(16:55):
I don't want to talk to youabout what your room looks like.
It looked like a crazy mess.
I don't want to talk to youabout your grades, which, by way
, we're amazing, like super yeahbut I feel like we're
disconnected and I really wantus to have a great bridge.
So every morning I was coming inI was just asking him questions
.
He's a catcher, he playsbaseball.
(17:16):
What's it like to to kind ofhave lunch on zoom with your
baseball buddies?
It's your, your freshman year.
What's it like?
Like how are you doing Just?
How are you doing in general?
How are your friends Like?
What are you finding?
Just connection questions, what?
do you want to be in 20 years,just whatever, anything that
(17:37):
kind of popped into my mind.
We just have a 15 minuteconversation, okay, literally
the next week, jesse, this thingit still gets me.
He walks into my bedroom, whichwas also my office at the time,
and he goes ka-ching, ka-ching,ding.
Hi, mama, I'm here to build abridge.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Oh, wow.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And that was the moment that I realized.
That was the moment that Irealized, oh, if it's a bridge,
both sides have to build.
If you're on one side building.
You just have a lookout.
Yep, that was the moment whereI was like this this is a thing
that people in organizationsneed to know.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
This is a thing that is going to be a game changer,
because so often you just haveone side.
That's like trying, trying,trying, but if you don't have
the other side, you're just,you're not building that bridge
and so that's when I startedreally thinking about it,
introducing it to the coachingthat I was doing, introducing it
to workshops, and then, severalmonths later, did I start
actually writing a book about it.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Got you.
So you observed it thedisconnect.
You observed the disconnect inthe strategy session.
Which folks I'm willing to betevery LNM family member out
there listening to this has beento an annual strategy retreat,
and more than one, and the besttakeaway was the place they went
(19:10):
was awesome.
It was fun, because thedeployment of the strategy
rarely, rarely happens.
And how do I say this?
To use your story with your sonIn my head, it's a perfect
picture of why he wasreciprocating.
It wasn't because you told himto.
(19:30):
It wasn't because you said I'mgoing to build a bridge, I'm
going to do my half, you need todo your half.
It was because you demonstratedthe behavior of what bridge
building looks like.
You would go to him, have aconversation of your curiosities
and your interest in him as ahuman being, not how he's
(19:52):
performing as your son or as astudent A conversation and
interest of him being a humanbeing which planted a seed for
him to do the same.
And so, going back to, like thestrategy sessions and I'm sure
you've, I know that you've donebazillions and seen this over
and over again I've been in asituation where the boss is
(20:15):
telling everybody how it needsto be what it needs to look like
, what shape, what tone, whatfont, la la la.
And they say and I want this tobe a safe and collaborative
space, collaborate and peopleare like, as long as it's my
idea.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I love the collaboration.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
There's no bridge there right, and so there's no
invitation of hey, comecontribute to this yes and then
there's frustration.
Yes, because they're notcontributing.
It's like how can I soar withthe eagles when I'm surrounded
by turkeys and you're notsurrounded by turkeys?
You just plucked the feathersof all the eagles around you
(20:55):
because of the way you behave.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, it's exactly right.
Have you heard of the jar withthe fleas?
Yes, right, and they'll jump upand jump up, and jump up and
jump up.
But if you put the lid on, thenthey don't continue to jump as
high.
And then, when you take the lidoff, they still don't jump as
high because they've beentrained not to.
(21:22):
And sometimes leaders end uptraining their teams that hey, I
know, I say that things thatyou're doing, so people's
capabilities, how do you help me?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And now I believe, and I really do, wholeheartedly
(22:12):
want them to excel and share alltheir creativity, all their
critical thinking.
But because of the way Ifunction, I'm suffocating that.
How do you help me?
Like a couple of pointers youwould give to a stubborn, blind
person like me.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yeah, so we talk about what potential impact
could be If we've done a 360,it's even easier because then we
see blind spots and we havediscussions with stakeholders
that we've said hey, here's someof the things that are coming
up and here's the impact thatyou're having, because we all
have great intentions, but wesometimes have impact that we
(22:53):
don't realize.
It's that imagine you're aspeedboat and as you're going by
, there are all these ripplesand they're affecting everyone
else, right?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You're not aware of what your wake is, You're still
responsible for your wake.
So one of the things that Italk about is what's the
potential wake that you'recausing there?
Right Potential?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Unintended, but what is it?
So we try to jump into what theother person might be thinking
or feeling.
Yeah, I hear you.
It does sound reallyfrustrating that they're not
coming to you with ideas.
What might be behind some ofthat?
Oh okay, so when you're talkingabout doing strategy sessions,
(23:40):
how is it that you are askingfor them to come to the table?
And I drill down to when areyou bringing your ideas?
When?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
are they?
Speaker 1 (23:49):
bringing their ideas, because if it is somebody that
is just coming to the table andthey already know what their
ideas are and you know they'redoing active listening.
That's not active listening.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Oh, don't even get me started on that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
So we basically peel back the onion and I would say
to all your listeners what is it?
What assumptions are you makingabout people?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
assuming that they don't have great ideas.
Okay, well, what led you tobelieve that and how might some
of the stuff that you're doinghave some kind of impact on that
?
And if you go to the tablethinking that they have great
ideas, you're actually going tobe acting differently.
How do you encourage thosegreat ideas and how do you
(24:41):
encourage the implementation ofthose great ideas?
Because, here's the fascinatingthing that's happening right now
.
We're in this economy wherepeople are really nervous.
Right, there have been layoffs,trust is really low and there
is not a ton of transparency.
(25:02):
There's a lot of uncertainty,and so a lot of organizations
are moving to more performanceand accountability metrics, and
I get it.
However, we also need to havethe human capital metrics,
because companies also aresaying there's not a lot of
innovation.
Well, how are you making itokay for people to Experiment
(25:25):
Fail, yes, but that's exactlyright to experiment.
What are you encouraging andhow are you doing that, both
with the mindset that you'recoming in and the things that
you're doing?
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yes, oh, I love it.
So two things I want to Threethings the experiment the reason
I like the word experiment isbecause failure is inherent in
that exercise, because I'm goingto run multiple experiments to
get the outcome that I want.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I cannot experiment if failure is, if there's a
punitive response to failure inexperimentation which is very
different than failing orrefusing to comply with the
roles and responsibilities thatI've signed up for.
Those are two different things100% yes.
(26:15):
Yes, but it's easy to like,co-mingle them or me being the
limiter, the limiting leader.
My behavior signals to peopleand I love that you like the
wake.
I am responsible for the impactof the weight, even though I
can't see it Like for me.
The biggest struggle I had wasI didn't understand that, like
(26:37):
in my head, I'm still a skinny,troublemaking plumber from the
South side.
I'm not skinny anymore, I'mstill a troublemaker.
So as I got promoted intodifferent roles and levels of
the organization, I didn'tunderstand that my title
amplified my behaviors and mywords.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And it took a long time for me to really take
ownership of like, hey, dummy,don't say dumb things, because
you're giving people permissionto say and do dumb things Anyhow
.
I know not everybody has thatproblem, but I did so.
That was the second point.
Now, in terms of seeing theissue like the 360 survey folks,
(27:18):
if you don't know what a 360 is, is it's a survey that like,
let's say again, I'm thelimiting leader.
Everybody not my bosses they'regoing to get surveyed.
The customers external to theorganization, they're going to
get surveyed.
The people that report to methat I'm the boss of, they're
going to get surveyed and it'llgive me information from that
(27:42):
demographic or that perspectiveof the stakeholders.
So I get to see.
And here's like the first timeyou want to guess what happened
to me.
The first time is Kimberly.
My bosses were very pleasedwith me.
Everybody else hated me Cause.
Guess what?
All of my focus and effort andenergy was on self-preservation
(28:05):
and pleasing the bosses.
I wasn't doing that on purpose,it's just a function of
whatever.
And then I'm like, oh, that'snot good, like I don't, I'm a
suck up.
Like, basically, this report istelling me I'm a brown noser, I
need to take better care of mypeople.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
And when I made that shift it was ginormous.
So, anyways, my point was the360 survey.
That's the idea, folks, If youhaven't had one and you have an
opportunity to do one, there'sformal, magical ways to do it.
Or come up with a set ofquestions and ask everybody
around you those questions.
You'll learn some stuff.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yes.
So here's the thing, too, isthat what I encourage people to
do is the success of the projectis not just some of the metrics
that you see.
It's also the relationshipsolid team, or working really
well with this other person.
How does that change some ofthe things that you're going to
(29:15):
focus on?
And so the book talks about howyou can build, how you can
strengthen and how you canrepair the bridge, and there are
nine for each of those.
It's in that strengthen piecewhere we talk about what are the
expectations and how do youalign on or how do you really
set good expectations, because Ilike to say unset expectations
(29:40):
are predetermined disappointment.
Oh, 100%, because, if you don'tknow, and again, like all these
bricks, both sides have to play.
I need to understand theexpectations of my manager, my
manager needs to understand myexpectations too, and then
aligning on goals and thenreally having that kind of
(30:03):
growth mindset, that opportunityhey, we can really grow
together.
Exactly what you're talkingabout is so important for having
the really good relationshipthat sometimes people don't
think about.
They're like you know what.
I just need this bid to come inon time.
Forget everybody else, just getme the information and then
(30:27):
sorry, the next person they'regoing to have to deal with if I
cut some corners or whatever sothat I could get it in or the
person that takes the bid andthen actually goes and does the
project is wait, thisinformation didn't include
everything and so now we'regoing to be out of scope and
then it's upset Right.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes, right, yes, the way I think of that, or the way
that lands in my head, isthere's the radical chase of
outcomes.
Yes, deliver the damn estimatewhich causes us to be blind, to
like the unintended consequences, specifically in the
(31:06):
relationship, human interactionstuff.
Because, yes, I got the thingdone, yeah, but I had to put
somebody else on the back burnerand I mean it's not to the
degree that the team deserves,but my butt was on the line to
get it to you by noon and I gotit to you by noon.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
There's going to be collateral damage that plays out
in the human interactionrelationship space.
That's, yeah, exactly, exactly.
That plays out in the humaninteraction, relationship space.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
That's yeah, exactly exactly and that's the thing
that when we have the economylike we do right now, sometimes
people shift to that and justputting on a performance metric
or an accountability metric thatis just mine instead of looking
at the bigger picture and wecan slip into these, just as we
(31:54):
were talking about beforetransactional relationships
instead of really focusing onhow the relationship is.
Here's a funny thing They'veactually found that high trust
teams are five times moreproductive that high trust teams
are five times more productive.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, am I wrong in thinking that high
trust teams means conflict isokay?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Oh, I love that you're asking that question,
because people look at the wordconflict and they think it's
going to be like some loudfisticuffs and all these things.
You have conflict when you'redoing brainstorming, when you
have different kind of opinions.
So when you have a high trustteam, it means it should mean
(32:44):
that it actually enables thoseconflict discussions to be
navigated so much better,because one of the other pieces
when you're looking at repairingthe bridge, it's curiosity,
it's listening, it's ownership,and so you actually can navigate
conflict really well when youhave this basis of really solid
(33:06):
trust, really solid connection.
And then you do dive into thecuriosity Okay, so what is it?
And you're trying to understandwhat the other person is saying
oh, why?
What is it that is so importantabout that for you?
And then when you understandthat maybe the two of you are
actually not as far apart as youthought right, yes.
(33:29):
Yes, find that common groundwhich for any company, there's
an awful lot of common groundright.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yes, yeah, but I'll personalize it for me.
The reason I couldn't see thecommon ground is because I was
in the state of fear, state ofself-preservation.
So I was blinded to hey, we allget the same check and it has
the same signature on it.
Our jobs and the growth of ourcompany and our careers is
(33:58):
contingent on our performancetoday working together.
But because I was so, I need towin at all costs, which meant
even my teammates had to lose,played out in less than optimal
outcomes.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
That's right.
Yeah, yes, and that's why, alot of the times, I say, okay,
let's go back to the foundationof the bridge.
Is there trust?
Is there respect and connectionis okay.
What do you need, jesse, ifwe're working together?
What do you need to be yourbest self at work?
And what do I need to be mybest self at work?
(34:35):
And if I joke that we playtrust chicken sometimes, well,
I'll trust you as soon as youtrust me.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna trust youand you can't do that again.
Right, it's conditional Bothsides need to be building
together, and respect is thissafety that we create.
(34:55):
So you're right when you arefeeling, oh my gosh, I need to
perform and I need, and you'relike, literally I see people
kind of scrunch up and getnervous and, oh my God, things
are not working out out.
I'm so exhale and go back towhat's that foundation a how do
you trust you?
(35:16):
How do you trust that you knowyou're doing the things that you
need to do to show up?
And then also, how do yourebuild some of that trust and
respect?
yes with that other person,potentially throughentially,
through getting really curious,potentially it's also through
really listening to the otherperson, and a lot of time it's
also hey, wow, I caused somefracture in our bridge and I
(35:40):
really want to own that.
Let's have a discussion and I'mgoing to own my part, the other
person's going to own theirpart, and then we have this good
understanding of how we want tomove together, how we want to
move.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
You triggered a thought Okay, so I've worked
with the leader.
Or rather, what's your advicehere?
Communicate expectations andnever secure commitments, which
always turns into resentment anddisappointment for them.
(36:15):
And then I, I'm the guy.
Then I decide to change my ways, but there's this shadow, the
wake right.
There's this shadow of damagethat has informed people of what
to expect from me.
Yeah, now I've changed mybehavior, but the shadow doesn't
(36:37):
go away, and so I get reallyimpatient and frustrated because
they're still not trusting meyes what, what?
what's the deal there?
I'm, I'm doing the right.
Why don't they trust me?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
yeah, yeah.
So here's the thing.
They are making an assumption,right, and that's then I hear
the hurt and frustration and hey, Kimberly, I'm doing the right
thing, and so what we look atthere is okay.
Some of this, then, is going tobe packaging and branding.
Right, Because one of myfavorite quotes from Jeff Bezos
(37:15):
is your brand is what people sayabout you when you're not in
the room.
You can change that brand, okay.
So, hey, let's, let's createwhat is that brand that you want
to create?
And then let's over index onsome of the communication and so
great.
(37:35):
Here are a few thingsProactively tell people hey, I'm
wanting to make sure thatthere's transparency here.
My timeline is like this and Iwill let you know if it feels
like there's something that'sgoing to affect that, and I'm
going to proactively talk to youearly on so that there aren't
(37:59):
surprises.
I know that previously therehave been surprises and
frustrations and whatever, andso here's what I'm doing, so
you're just really transparentabout how you're continuing to
do that.
And it does.
It does Because, unfortunately,our brain is primed to remember
(38:20):
the like, the negative.
We then can proactively reprimepeople's brains to think about
it in a positive way.
right, sometimes it's also justresetting.
Hey, let's talk about how wework together.
How would you like to beinformed if there are going to
be misses?
(38:40):
How would you like to cool?
You know what?
It's really important to methat you feel like you can trust
this process again.
Maybe we were doing likemonthly status.
What if I also, just every twoweeks, send you an email status
on how it is Right?
(39:00):
So it's over going on it andit's also I would work with the
other person internally to belike okay, I want you to think
about where you're getting wins,where these different things.
So you're also and I'm going tonerd out on the brain for just
a second being called thereticular activating system, and
(39:25):
your brain primes itself.
So if you start looking for theways that it's working instead
of the ways it's not working,yes.
You're going to set yourself upto be successful, because if
your brain's always oh, they'renever going to believe that I've
changed.
You're going to see that andyou're going to also,
unfortunately, act accordingly,unintentionally.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yep, self-confirming bias right, oh there, it is
there.
It is there and you said it.
We can program it.
Totally, yeah, yes, okay.
So now I'm the flea.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
I'm the flea in the jar and and I got one of those
limiting leaders.
What do I do?
Do I just shrink to fit in theconditions?
Do I quit?
Do I tell them to pound sand?
What pointers do you have forme?
Speaker 1 (40:20):
The two things that I get most often when I do a talk
.
Jesse, that question.
And the other one is like do Ijust burn the bridge?
At what point?
Like I've got friends that havegasoline and matches, and like
I'm ready ready to go sometimes.
So those are the two questionsI get is if I'm a flea or what
(40:45):
bridges should I just burn down?
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Kimberly yes.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Okay.
So the flea question.
This is all.
Who do you want to be right andhow do you want to be Okay?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
And I had an executive and this person was
just in a really hard, hard,hard space.
Jesse, we know, as a coach, Itake confidentiality very, very
important.
There is no way that they canfigure out who this is, so I'm
not breaking any kind ofconfidentiality here.
This client was just in areally, really hard space with a
(41:28):
limiting leader, was just in areally, really hard space with a
limiting leader andconsistently trying to do the
right thing and to show up in anincredible place.
And actually it's funny because, as I'm saying this, I actually
can think of five differentclients I've had in this space.
Right, it's a common thing I'vebeen in this space, right?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
And so you need to decide.
Who do I want to be?
I'll tell you three things.
Right, who do I want to be?
Right, Fundamentally, am Igoing to shrink or not?
And my makeup is just don'tshrink, it's just in my DNA.
The second piece, though, iswhere do I get my value and
(42:10):
validation?
So it doesn't wreck meinternally.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I like that.
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Because that kind of a leader can wreck you and
change how you feel about youand your confidence and stuff
like that.
And I'm not going to lie likeJesse.
That was a big misstep for meand huge learning is I was in, I
had a really horriblychallenging manager that said
(42:38):
some really horribly challengingthings and I pretzeled myself
to try to prove that I was thisincredible leader.
And again and again and again,and so I started looking for
other ways that I would knowthat I was doing the right thing
, because it wasn't going tocome from this leader.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
It wasn't.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
And so I just needed to kind of accept that.
The other piece is then indoing that.
The third thing is, I would sayget your own kind of board of
directors.
Yes, you then navigate that soit's not this one person that
potentially is ruining yourreputation.
And then you can and I've hadseveral clients you can move
(43:25):
yourself into another role whereyou are valued.
It's such a core thing.
We want to be valued, we wantto be seen, and so you just you
have to realize, like, where doyou get that value?
And that it doesn't necessarilycome from this person, who may
or may not be the best equippedmanager.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Oh, the one thing that stands out is find another
source for your validation,because you can absolutely do
that, and I just love the wayyou phrase that.
And no wonder people say, man,this stuff applies at home too.
Oh yeah, I've been in thoserelationships where she's just
(44:10):
never going to be happy and very, very unhealthy, lost myself
entirely trying to contortmyself to make her happy.
Yes, and it was impossible.
And so, before I burnt anddemolished the bridge, I started
finding another source to fillmy cup from, and that was family
(44:32):
.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
And then I burnt the bridge, okay.
So as far as romanticrelationships go, I feel like
there isn't one person that'sgoing to be the end, all
everything for you.
This is going to be the end,all everything for you.
This is going to be the personI do everything with.
I think it's almost an unfairthing to think that one person
(44:55):
can be everything.
So find some of those piecesfrom your friends, from your
family, from work, fromdifferent things, and also find
that phenomenal person thatlifts you up, that you have this
incredible bond with.
Person that lifts you up, thatyou have this incredible bond
with that loves you deeply andit's, it's, there's like,
(45:18):
whatever it takes a village toraise a child, I think it also
just takes a village for you tobe a whole person too.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
You know, yeah, yeah, which speaks to the personal
advisory board.
Like for me, I, my personaladvisory council, has been
something I stumbled on, I don'tknow eight or nine years ago,
but it was like man, I want togrow, I want to learn, I want to
improve, I want to serve better, and there's a whole lot of
gaps that I got and it can't oneperson fill those gaps.
(45:44):
So I said, okay, I'm going totalk this person for this, this
person for this, this person,and it moves around.
Yeah, but it's been tremendousit's been, and so the same thing
.
Right, it's okay.
Where do I get?
Speaker 1 (46:01):
my validation and support and reinforcement.
From there we go.
There's another clue Exactlyyes, yes, and it makes complete
sense, right?
We go to people for how do Ifix my car?
To a doctor, to finances, toall these different things.
Of course, it makes completesense to get your own personal
and professional board, andhere's the reason it's so, so,
(46:22):
so important at work.
Again, we go back to what yourbrand is.
It's a critical thing that youknow what your brand is.
If you don't and for a while Ididn't I didn't pay attention to
it.
I had the same thing that yourparents did you just head down,
work hard and everything good isjust going to happen to you.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
It's important to know, because everybody has
blind spots and you can'taddress them.
Silly sentence you can'taddress a blind spot unless you
know what the blind spot is.
You also can't know the blindspot if you don't have people
that are willing to speak truthto you.
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Oof, yes, yes, yes.
Which takes us back to trustand conflict like those things.
I am a heavy advocate forconflict.
It's my favorite place to beand I'm probably maybe overly
comfortable with it because Iknow and I spent years and years
(47:27):
and years dancing so as not tooffend anybody.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
And that is misery for me.
So now I just go straight at it,because I know on the other
side of conflict is amazingmagical stuff.
Like for one thing for sure, inevery conflict situation I went
after, the one thing thatalways happens is I am 100%
(47:58):
clear.
It may not be in the directionthat I want it to be, but I am
100% clear that that person isnot in favor of the thing that
we were dancing around.
And so good.
Now, if you're not going topartner me on me with that, no
problem, I'll find somebody elseinstead of wondering and him
Hein and secret message andpassive jabs yeah, that kind of
(48:24):
junk.
Speaker 1 (48:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Do this go?
How do you want to do this ornot?
Yeah, I'm getting the sensethat this is not something
you're as interested in today asyou thought you were last month
.
And I've had people like damn,I'm like like no judgment, yeah,
this one, it looks like fromhere and I just need to know.
And I've had people say, jess,I did, I wanted to be
(48:49):
collaborating, but I don't haveas much time as I thought I did,
so I'm not going to be able togo at the rate that you go.
Cool, I still love you andwhenever you want to get back on
the train, let me know.
But I got to go and I'll gofind somebody else that can run
with me and it's good.
Go, and I'll go find somebodyelse that can run with me and
(49:12):
it's good, instead of tiptoeingand fearing and oh my God, what.
It's almost never been bad.
But again, the 100% thing that,on my end anyways, is when I go
after the conflict on the otherside of the conflict is I know
for sure where people stand andwhat the next step is.
Most of the time it's reallyawesome and amazing.
Sometimes it's icky, but I'mclear, I don't have to wonder
(49:34):
anymore.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
And you know what that does is that builds the
trust.
Yes and it also builds therespect, because it's hilarious
that you say dancing becauseSunday.
It's hilarious that you saydancing because Sunday I co-led
(49:56):
a workshop with another coachand we called it Dancing with
the Divide.
And it was all about conflictand how you can advocate
conflict through some curiosityand confidence and communication
.
So I love that.
So I love that.
(50:17):
And it's really fascinating tome because so many people are
conflict averse because they'renervous about what's going to
happen.
And you bridge analogy.
They're worried that, hey, Icause a fracture and the bridge
is going to break down and we'renever going to be able to get
it back together.
And the irony is it's exactlythe opposite, because once you
actually go and pay attention,you know what?
Jesse?
I'm going to tell you a quickstory.
(50:38):
So January of last year I did anoffsite with this team and they
was a leadership team and theywere just, they were in such
heavy conflict and they we wentoff site for a few days to maybe
an hour and a half, two hoursinto the session I said, ok,
(50:59):
time out.
I know we've got all thesethings planned and activities
and great stuff.
We need to sit down andactually just talk.
We need to sit down andactually just talk, because
there's so much conflict andavoidance and frustration across
the board.
We're not even going to be ableto do any of these exercises
(51:23):
because I was thinking we werein a different place and we need
to go to square one.
We were in a different place andwe need to go to square one.
We need to really back up, andwhat's really cool is we went
through all of this stuff.
We reset, literally on the fly,changed how the whole day and a
half was going to go.
I don't know if you've ever hadthat, but that's also really
(51:45):
good learning, by the way.
Like you may have the best ofplans, but then you get there
and you need to adapt, you needto pivot, you need to pay
attention to what's in the fieldwith everybody else, and so we
called a timeout.
I'm not a big football person,but I do know this one.
We called an audible and changedcourse, made a few different
(52:07):
play adjustments.
And I, changed course, made afew different play adjustments.
And I just heard back from thema month ago and this SVP said
Kimberly, you know what?
The stuff that we did on thatoffsite is still paying
dividends Because we go and yougo through all of the rupture
and you actually do.
(52:27):
I hate even calling it the hardthing because I feel like that
primes the brain the wrong way,but when you navigate through
the conflict that you've justbeen avoiding, we then get to a
better place because therewasn't trust.
There were all these sideconversations there wasn't
respect, there was cattiness,there were just all these things
(52:49):
that people weren't workingwell together and there was no
connection and people weremaking massive assumptions.
And now you actually have thisgroup that is working so well
together and when they faceother things, the bridge is
stronger because they know theycan go through the rupture.
They know they can go throughthe rupture, they know they can
(53:11):
repair, they know they have thattrust and now every time you go
through the conflict itactually improves the bridge for
them and I was like I'm sohappy.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
The ability and the courage to sense.
Wait a minute.
This is not the stuff I gotplanned for this workshop or
this experience.
Yes, these conditions, thisain't going to work.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
So that's experience that you brought to the table,
which is amazing.
And then the courage to say wegot to have some hard
conversations, y'all Like weain't going to be playing games
that ain't going to get usnowhere.
It'll be fun, it'll beentertaining, but it's not going
to have any impact, so we'regoing to go back.
Applause to you, ms Kim,because I know how scary and
(53:58):
also how exhilarating that isyes, because like you were there
, like, oh, I knew it.
Finally, these people arehaving the conversation.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yes, yeah oh right, you do have to say okay, ego,
we're gonna set you over here.
I understand, it was thisbeautiful plan of a project.
We're going to scrap this partand we're going to do this, and
I feel like that's also a thing,as leaders, that you need to do
.
When you're not connecting withyour team, you need to say okay
(54:33):
, we're going to have a momentof humility here and we need we
need to do something differentinstead of just charging through
and being like you don't get, apass you don't get.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
we don't have license to blame them, if we can see it
.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yes, when I first started managing, I was like
I've got this.
I've had some great managers,I've had some bad managers, I
know how to do this and I hadthis amazing person that I had
hired and I thought we're goingto kill it.
This is going to be amazing andthe first several months
(55:11):
incredible.
And then and we were workingside by side and our ROI return
on investment the audience wasgrowing.
This is back when I was runningmarketing at a startup and I
was on fire so excited.
And then I thought, hey, I didthe golden rule of managing
(55:33):
Jessie.
I'm going to manage her the waythat I would want to be managed
Well.
In my mind, that's trust andrespect.
So I wouldn't want somebodysitting with me every day that
would feel like you don't reallytrust me on my own, you don't
respect my ability.
So I said and this is her realname because it ends really well
I said, hey, megan, you'regoing to now own all of this
(55:56):
stuff.
And she originally said great,that's amazing.
So she goes off Within a matterof weeks.
Does the ROI start tanking Likeaudience?
We were going engagement thisway?
Nope, roi off a cliff.
Things are being turned in andI had no idea why I was so
(56:19):
confused, thinking, hey, we wereworking really well together.
You're not turning stuff in.
Roi is getting so much, justit's crummy, we're not getting
conversion.
All of the metrics justplummeted.
So first I was really upsetwith her and blaming her.
(56:39):
And then I was really upsetwith me and blaming me and just
like you go into that kind ofwhirlpool of catastrophic
thinking I'm a horrible manager,I'm never going to be able to
do this.
What's wrong To thinking, oh myGod, I may not be great at
marketing, mind you, I've beengreat at marketing before, but
now it's just totally gone.
(57:00):
And then I paused because myfavorite manager is my
grandfather and he was an expertat managing and one of the
things that he did best, Jesse,was connect with people and find
out what they actually needed.
So I sat down with Megan and atfirst we were talking about the
(57:25):
ROI and why the ads weren'tkind of coming in, why she
wasn't delivering stuff.
We talked about why the ROI wastanking, why she wasn't posted,
like all these different things, and you hear that keyword.
I was using why, which is not agreat word, right.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
It's accusatory.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
It is right.
It's got all this built-incrummy stuff to it.
So I first started changingthat and started asking what and
how questions.
I second also started askingher questions about her and what
was going on for her.
Yep, crazy thing.
Here's what she needed.
She wanted a 10 minute check-inevery morning and a five minute
(58:07):
checkout.
She wanted to know howeverything was going.
She wanted to know.
Hey, she wanted to tell me thatI'm going to be doing.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (58:17):
She also wanted validation.
At the end, hey, this is what Idid.
Did it work?
She wanted to connect about her.
At the time, boyfriend Ben, nowhusband, father of her adorable
child.
Speaker 2 (58:30):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
We started doing that and everything turned around.
Speaker 2 (58:34):
Came back.
Everything came back, andhere's the thing.
Speaker 1 (58:37):
Lest anybody think that she is a high maintenance
person.
She's actually not.
She is a VP of marketing,absolutely killing it now.
Right, and she was a rock star.
I just wasn't managing her theway that she needed to be
managed.
Speaker 2 (58:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
This was a me thing.
Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (58:59):
Once I sat down and talked to her and connected with
her, everything changed andthis is such a game changer
thing.
I can't tell you the number ofpeople.
I got a workshop about how youconnect with people.
I've talked to executives.
Here's how you connect withpeople.
I've talked to executives.
Here's how you connect withpeople.
It is literally turned around.
(59:20):
I've had countless executivessay I was going to fire this
person and then we startedhaving this connection and it is
completely different.
It changes the whole dynamicsof the relationship and it is
not the heavy lift that peoplethink it is to build
relationships.
It is the crucial lift to buildthe relationships.
Speaker 2 (59:42):
I love that.
I love the crucial lift.
So, summary trust lives inconflict.
Conflict avoided is conflictmultiplied.
Yes, understand what peoplevalue and appreciate.
So here's a question that Ilike to ask and, similar to you
(01:00:06):
I did it wrong for so damn longbut super simple question that
I'd love to get your thoughts on.
I ask people on a highfrequency, especially like
people I'm working with directreports and so forth it's this
how can I better serve you?
Yes, and people.
(01:00:26):
When I asked that question,people were like oh, what do you
mean?
Well, we're partnering on thisthing, we're working together,
like our success isinterdependent.
How can I better serve you?
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
What do you need?
Do you need resources?
Do you need time?
Do you need to like?
Tell me, tell me what it is.
I'm not saying I'm going to doall of it, but if I know I can
at least work towards gettingthose resources or whatever it
is to better serve you.
Because if I better serve you,the outcomes for all of us are
going to be greater.
And I throw that question outthere because I used to have a
(01:01:04):
mindset of oh my God, I got togo hold everybody's hand and I'm
supposed to know their stupiddog's name, and I hate freaking
dogs.
And it's not that, it's simplydiscovering how to better serve
them.
And if I ask that question thatway, that's already an immense
(01:01:24):
deposit in the emotional bankaccount.
That starts the trust meterrunning.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
I love that.
I absolutely love that, and Ithink that part of the key of
that is is the what do you need?
Right, and asking it as a serve.
I think it's also reallyimportant to ask, when somebody
comes to you and they're reallyfrustrated, to also ask what is
(01:01:53):
it that you want in this moment?
Because sometimes an event.
sometimes they really actuallywant to be appreciated.
Sometimes they want a solution.
By the way, this is a greatthing to ask you.
We're talking aboutrelationships at home and other
places.
It's a great, significant otherway to ask it.
It's a great way, if you haveteens or younger kids to ask it.
(01:02:15):
It's actually a great thing toask as a to a friend, right?
What is it that you want?
What is it that I can do inthis moment to your point that's
going to serve you best?
Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Yes, right, yeah, yeah, all right.
So my guess is, for anybodythat's oh my God, I need more of
this.
They can go and get Me at theBridge and get the bricks, the
nine bricks, and all theframeworks and mental models and
directions and magical formulasto enhancing their
(01:02:48):
relationships.
And do they go to Amazon?
Do they go to your website?
Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Amazon is a great place to go.
Amazon works really well.
Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Okay, there you go.
Amazon works really well.
Okay, there you go, and I'llmake sure that we get a link in
the show notes down there sopeople can access that.
Now I kind of brushed over this, but you are a certified coach.
I mean, you've said it, youcoach, you help people with
workshops, but you are acertified coach, a bestselling
author.
You've worked with ginormous Imean hell, apple, like biggest
(01:03:17):
damn company.
Nobody doesn't know Apple.
So you come with a ton ofcredibility and am I speaking
out of turn by saying you doserve companies, individuals,
teams, nonprofit, privateenterprise, all of the above
You're happy to help them gettheir stuff more gooder.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Exactly yes, I have my leadership program.
So I have a leadership programthat came out of this book.
I have done the leadershipprogram with huge organizations
to level up their directors.
I've also run through anonprofit and to help with their
leadership team.
(01:04:00):
I have several clients that areC-level clients as well.
I have clients that arefounders and then middle
management.
So I generally help across theboard and across a number of
industries and globally.
Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
So yeah, of course you do, duh Awesome.
So we'll make sure we'll getyour website.
Which website, if they don'twant to wait and they want to
hear it.
What's your website?
Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Yeah, so the name of my company is O2U, so from
overwhelmed to unstoppable, andI help create unstoppable teams.
So the website is wwwfrom O forthe overwhelmed, to like the
number two, u for unstoppablecom, so from O2Ucom, o2ucom.
Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Oh, I love that From O2Ucom, with the two in the
middle.
Yes, oh, that is that's.
You must know.
You must be marketing, You're amarketing person.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
I mean storytelling, branding, creating connections.
Those are jam.
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yes, oh man.
Well, we've been having so muchfun talking about fleas, we
didn't get to talk about theother book, and so maybe what do
you say?
We just kind of drop a teaserthere and let people know that
there is another book currentlybeing baked.
Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Yeah, yes, yep, working on it as we speak.
So, yes, yes, there will benine bricks, and a few will be
the same and most of them willbe different.
Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
so nice, very, and this is the bridge within us yes
, yeah, it's the bridge back toyourself.
Oh my goodness, I'm gettingchills, just thinking about it.
I'm not going to tell y'allanymore.
You're going to have to comeback to hear part two of when
that book is ready to launch.
We'll definitely be talkingagain, ms Kimberly, and so I got
(01:06:11):
the final question for you,okay?
And given all your breadth ofexperience and your heart, it's
clear to me how much of yourheart you put into the work that
you do, the things that youobserve and see.
I'm excited to hear your answer.
So here's the question.
Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
All right, I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
What is the promise you are intended to be?
Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Oh, I love this question, the promise I am
intended to be.
Oh, I love this question, thepromise I am intended to be.
I think it is all aboutcreating those magical
connections with people.
I told you that I reallybelieve that every person has
some kind of a gift.
It is creating that kind ofmagical connection between
(01:07:00):
people, creating an incrediblebridge, creating an incredible
learning more about them, reallyseeing them, appreciating them.
There's something just magicalabout those different
connections.
Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
So, yeah, it'd be something around like creating
connection, creating magicalconnection, yeah, oh, I love
that and you're doing it Notonly like for the people you
connect with, me being one ofthem, but you're also helping
other people do that, so you'reliving that promise I wasn't.
I'm not surprised at all at howtouching your answer or your
(01:07:40):
response is.
Did you have fun?
Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
I had so much fun.
I'm already looking forward tocoming back.
Jesse, we will definitely dothis again.
Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Yes, ma'am.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Good Hang with Amy Poehler
Come hang with Amy Poehler. Each week on her podcast, she'll welcome celebrities and fun people to her studio. They'll share stories about their careers, mutual friends, shared enthusiasms, and most importantly, what's been making them laugh. This podcast is not about trying to make you better or giving advice. Amy just wants to have a good time.