September 11, 2025 • 60 mins
In this episode of the Learnings and Missteps podcast, host Jesse engages with Dr. Alejandra Rodriguez-Mielke, an expert in talent development and organizational analysis, who offers insights on cultural competence and adaptability. Dr. Alejandra shares her journey from Monterey, Mexico, to the United States, highlighting the importance of learning and teaching throughout her career. She emphasizes the significance of interpersonal skills, understanding cultural scripts, and being respectfully curious to thrive in diverse workplaces. This enlightening discussion delves into how cultural awareness can impact workplace dynamics, especially in safety, and offers valuable advice for young professionals seeking growth. Tune in to gain practical tips on overcoming fear, embracing flexibility, and fostering meaningful connections at work.
Connect with Alejandra: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alejandramielke/
00:00 Introduction and Adapting to Change
00:44 Meet Dr. Alejandra Rodriguez Mielke
02:43 The Power of Curiosity and Action
04:52 Organizational Analysis and Human Dynamics
15:04 Challenges in Leadership and Management
29:10 Cultural Competence and Personal Growth
32:30 From Teen Dreams to Professional Realities
33:08 Embracing Human Connections Beyond Credentials
34:04 Understanding and Developing Cultural Competence
36:03 Cultural Differences and Workplace Safety
37:40 Respectful Curiosity and Cultural Cruise Control
39:08 Personal Stories of Cultural Cruise Control
47:13 The Courage to Connect and Overcome Rejection
53:38 Final Thoughts and How to Connect with Dr. Alejandra
Design the Life You have Always Wanted: https://www.depthbuilder.com/do-the-damn-thing
Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, so I can just flip the script and I am going
(00:03):
to learn how to adapt, how touse my flexibility as a Latina,
and use it in the way that ithas to be used.
There's a lot of anxiety aboutchanging your behavior and this
and that, but I think that we'reall adapting, we're all
flexible.
We have to, and it's importantand it's growth when we adapt
(00:26):
and learn and change.
It's beautiful without beinghard on ourselves.
In your own cultural awareness,who are you culturally and how
you act.
When you can name it, you cantame it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
What is going on?
L m family back again, and thistime I have like a super I
don't even know how to say itlike just super engaging and
courageous human being.
She reached out, we connectedon the linkedin and she says,
hey, I've got, let's talk.
I got some questions.
I want to meet up like yeah,sure, and it's like in person,
oh okay.
And on the weekend, oh okay.
(01:04):
Like very few people have thatlevel of courage and I'm so glad
I did it.
She's an amazing human being.
So if talent development issomething that you've ever had
to deal with or wish you knewhow to do, she is the ultra
expert at maximizing talent,developing leadership and
(01:26):
interpersonal skills, and she'sworked in a multitude of
industries construction,healthcare, finance, tech,
manufacturing, like all of theabove.
So if you're going to try andwiggle out of well, that doesn't
apply to me.
You're a liar.
She's got it going on.
Dr Alejandra Rodriguez-Milkeyis going to blow our mind with
(01:48):
all the secret sauce that shehas to fix companies and make
things awesome.
But before that, if this isyour first time here, this is
the Learnings and Misstepspodcast, where you get to meet
amazing human beings just likeyou who are sharing their gifts
and talents to leave this worldbetter than they found it.
(02:11):
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to
know Dr Alejandra.
Dr Alejandra, how are you today?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I'm doing fantastic, thank you.
Thank you for having me, jesse.
I'm super happy to be here andbe able to have this
conversation with you today.
So thank you, ready, happy tobe here.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, I'm excited, folks, if y'all don't know this,
well, y'all wouldn't know this.
Not only is like Dr Alejandro,like straight up, let's go,
let's connect action oriented.
Let's go, let's connect actionoriented.
I'm going to say it, you'rethat way times a thousand,
because you and I had aconversation over coffee.
We talked about a newsletter,and then, bam, like a week later
, you launched a newsletter.
(02:53):
Like you, just, you justdefault to action.
Has that always been the wayyou operate?
Where does that come from?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, yes, some people call it impulsiveness.
Yeah, I love doing things.
It's always for me, it's alwayswhat's next?
What's on the other side?
What happens if I turn aroundthis corner?
What am I going to find?
What am I going to do?
So I've always been veryrestless.
(03:25):
There's something about thatthat might be a little bit of
impulsiveness, yes, and a lot ofcuriosity.
I cannot be in a place that I'mnot learning and I'm finding
out new things and it's whatdrives me, that curiosity to go
and see what's out there in theworld different industries,
(03:45):
different organizations,different human beings.
So that's what moves thataction.
Yeah, definitely, it's a senseof curiosity, of doing and
learning and finding out what'slike.
I said, what's around thecorner.
So it's been close to me.
I think that's one of thereasons that I'm in this country
.
I moved from Monterrey, mexico,here actually 25 years ago
(04:08):
Exactly Last week I celebratedmy 25th anniversary.
Yeah, that was because Icouldn't stay.
I mean, I had to go, I had tomove, I had to go and learn.
So that's something that hasbeen with me and I think it's
connected to my father, eventhough he might not appreciate
all my moves all the time, ofcourse not, but when he.
(04:30):
But of course I think it's alot because of him.
He was, he had that kind ofpersonality as well so, always
learning, always eager,challenging, curious, exploring.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think it's amazing because I'm, you can't tell, I
have the same energy and Itotally appreciate it.
But I also I've, I've been toldthe same Jesse, you're too
impulsive.
Okay, whatever Like.
Until you have to pay for myimpulsiveness, don't complain,
because I'm paying for it.
You're not Now the curiosity,the adventure.
How is that connected toorganizational analysis, because
(05:02):
I know that's kind of yoursweet spot analyzing the way
organizations function and soforth.
What is the connection betweenthat and your bias to action,
your curiosity, that need tokeep learning and growing?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I've been always fascinated by human beings.
I major in English literature,so for me it was really about
stories, learning more about thehuman beings.
I majored in English literature, so for me it was really about
stories, learning more about thehuman being.
And, of course, literature is areflection of our thoughts and
ideas and beliefs and how weadvance, right, so it was always
something about the humanbeings.
(05:38):
And then I became an expert inlearning and education, right,
and how to ensure that people gofrom point A to point B, right,
that movement, that learning,and I think that's what has been
guiding me all this time.
I think I would have been afantastic anthropologist as well
, because I do want tounderstand what makes people
(06:01):
move, what makes people act inthe ways they act, what makes
people change, because that'sthe hard one, as we all know,
right, what is it there?
What are some contexts thatmake this change, this
advancement, more easy for somepeople, and what other contexts
that things just do not move andyou go back and you hear the
(06:26):
same complaints, right, and youhear the same problems, and you
go back and they're like, okay,there's no movement.
And I'm always been veryfascinated and curious about
this.
What are the contexts thatcreate this change, this
advancement, right and what arethe ones that not?
And it's easy for me to go on,whether, regardless of the
(06:46):
organization, the teams, theindustry, like I said, I go
there and I start observing withmy big research eyes and my big
anthropological eyes what'sgoing on here right?
What are the missing piecesthat can make this better?
What's not working well?
And for me and I'm sure it'sgoing to be similar to you it's
(07:08):
always around the people.
It's always around the people,the way that we interact with
each other, the way that werelate to each other.
And when we have work in themiddle of those interactions,
then we have to talk aboutdemands and orders and hierarchy
and bosses, so it messes thewhole thing up.
(07:29):
But we live in a world where weare in workplaces a lot of a
time, like a chunk of our time.
So we need to understand howare these content, these
workplaces created and what canwe do to make them better?
Because work workspaces are notgoing to go anywhere, so
(07:49):
they're here today.
So it's always interesting tofor me.
I always go into the people.
What are those dynamics thatare not working?
Other people might go and takea look at the workplace from a
different perspective.
But it's all about people.
I think it's key.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
So what I'm hearing is, when you're talking about
works, but you're talking about,your focus is human dynamics,
interpersonal relationships, notthe structure.
I mean the structure, of course, but not like the lighting or
floor plan.
You're talking about how dopeople interact, function within
(08:28):
this organization, which is,I'm sure?
How many times have you heardthis question?
Maybe it's not even a question.
Well, I don't know if yourstuff is going to help, because
we're different.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And I believe that one for a little bit.
And oh, yeah, oh, I want to go.
I'm curious me.
Oh, you're yeah, oh, I want togo, I'm curious me, oh, you're
different.
Oh, I'll be there, I reallywant to see.
And then, when I started seeing,oh, this is not this, I've seen
this, I've seen this.
And you're like, oh, patternsbegin to show up, patterns of
(09:01):
interactions, and I'm like, oh,no, I mean, of course there's
some differences, right, butthere are a lot of similarities,
because we're all human beingsand we have a lot of these.
A lot is about fear, right, weare very afraid of what other
people are going to think aboutus, fear of rejection, fear of a
lot of things, and they are,they create.
(09:22):
These patterns, are very, areeasy to see in many different
ideas, very different contexts.
And I think, for me, one thingthat I have to say as an
immigrant, because I'm animmigrant in this country, right
, I think, when you come to adifferent country, even though I
already spoke English, eventhough I had been in Austin,
texas, texas, for a long beforeI moved here, I even had a few
(09:44):
friends here, so it was not acompletely foreign to me, but
still coming.
When you come to another country, you have to adapt different
ways.
You have to keep your eyes opento people are doing things
differently.
So that gives me or has givenme, I think this extra
sensitivity to go and observeand say, hey, what's going on
(10:10):
here, what's working, what's notworking.
And I think that's what givesme that extra thing, what's
going on here?
Because I have to do that allmy life because I'm a foreigner
in this country.
I'm a foreigner, I have tolearn, I have to understand, I
have to adapt Right, yes, yes,adapt to.
I'm a foreigner in this country, I'm a foreigner.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I have to learn, I have to understand, I have to
adapt right yes, adapt to theconditions.
So you mentioned being ananthropologist and I want to be
clear.
I'm not trying to minimizepeople's problems, because there
are uniqueness, there arethings that are different,
nuances and so forth.
However, in all the industriesthat you've worked in
construction, healthcare,finance, tech, manufacturing,
(10:53):
all of it the one thing thatthey all absolutely have in
common is people.
We got to do the LNM familymember shout out, and this one
again, I didn't write the namedown, so I'm sorry.
I love you, but I didn't getyour name.
But here's the message she saysI took.
When I say she, I don't evenknow it's a she.
I took Jesse's class on timemanagement and you hit all the
(11:14):
high notes for me.
I love lists, I'm super visualand Jesse really knows how to
bring the best out of people andthe best out of the tools that
are readily available.
Thank you so much.
And if you're wondering whatthat testimonial is from or
about it's on the Self FirstTime Mastery Framework that a
(11:36):
whole bunch of people have beenthrough, If you want to design
the life that you really, reallywant, I could help you.
Hit the link sign up.
But more importantly toeverybody out there, you already
know, if you leave me a message, a testimonial, repost, do five
stars, all of the things.
Please do that because, one, ithelps me feel good because
(11:57):
somebody else is listening andtwo, it gives me the opportunity
to shout you out in a futureepisode.
People are people all the time.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
People are people, yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And so you mentioned in your work or just kind of in
general, you picked up on thepatterns of how this might be
going too far.
But you picked up on patternson dysfunctional, the
dysfunctionality.
What are some of the mostfrequent patterns that you've
seen out there?
Or maybe what are your favoriteones that you see?
Oh, I could help there.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So I, oh, I have so many, but I think one of the
ones that I think it's auniversal one and it's kind of
the basis and the foundation formany other things.
And it's this idea, the basisand the foundation for many
other things.
And it's this idea of fear,right, it's a fear that can has
many ways of showing up, right?
Fear of rejection, fear of whatother people are going to say,
(12:57):
right, especially a lot of usthat we were raised in latin
cultures, we have this thingabout what ¿Qué va a decir la
gente?
What are they going to sayabout me?
Fear of being taken advantageof, of being a joke, or fear of
being discovered.
So I think that is the fear, andI think it's a fear that has
(13:18):
many ways of showing up.
And I think this fear is aboutunderstanding that we are alone
in this world.
And I think at some point weunderstand that we are alone.
And I think that feeling ofbeing alone and unprotected, if
I can say that, that we have todo it on our own, is something
that, for some reason, is veryingrained in a lot of our
(13:42):
beliefs.
I don't know what you have seen,but I think for me is that it's
very ingrained, and then thatprevents us from being more open
.
Sometimes it prevents us fromhaving real and more meaningful
connections.
Right, and it's just this whichis kind of contradictory,
because you are afraid, you wantto protect yourself, but at the
(14:02):
same time you're not open andyou don't understand that by
opening and connecting you canalso protect yourself.
Yes, that you don't have to dothat on your own, but you don't
want to because you don't trust.
So I think for me it's alwaysaround this fear of, and I think
that we feel alone and we arealone, we come alone and we die
alone.
(14:22):
But I think there's amisunderstanding of how that we
can be in this world, and it hasto do with culture as well, the
individualistic culture of theUS, so all these things, and it
takes time because even that isa skill that we have to learn
(14:43):
how to connect, how to releasethat fear.
You talk a lot aboutvulnerability, right?
It's very easy to say the word.
I have an accent, a little bitof an accent.
I might struggle with the word,but it's very easy.
But it's very difficult to doit in real life In practice.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh my goodness, yes, 100%.
Do it in real life In practice.
Oh my goodness, yes, a hundredpercent.
So I had a one of one of mycounselors.
One of my therapists told meJesse, you suffer from chronic
uniqueness.
I was like what do you meanchronic uniqueness?
And the point was all like Iwould I refuse to recognize that
(15:24):
it's impossible for me to bethe only human being to have had
these experiences At this timein my life.
Vulnerability was absolutelynot an option.
There's no way which reinforcedmy problem.
If I wasn't willing to open upto people and admit that, hey, I
(15:44):
have this fear, this concern,whatever insecurity, I would
never learn that I'm not theonly one that has those fears
and insecurities.
And so that's why she tellslike you're chronically unique.
If you continue to think thatyou're the only person, you will
reinforce that idea and you'regoing to stay stuck and so.
(16:04):
But to your point, vulnerability, very easy to say.
In practice it's a little bitdifferent.
Now you help companies withthis.
Like you go in and you've done,you've got your doctorate in
organizational stuff, likeyou've accomplished a ton,
you've helped tons and tons ofpeople, leaders, with this.
Do they, when they call you tothis say hey, dr Alejandra, can
(16:27):
you help us with vulnerability?
Does that happen to you?
No, no it's always.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I mean I wish, but I mean I don't think I would even
ask for help like that, right, Ithink it's hard for all human
beings, but no, they all.
I mean it's very reactiveinstead of proactive, right,
there's always very we have aproblem, we have a fire.
I think a lot of people spend alot of time at work putting out
fires and it's exhausting.
(16:54):
It's exhausting and it's neverending, right, because the fires
are always going to be there.
But when really things get badis when they start either losing
people or it's always related,some kind of like when they are
money, they are not reaching out, the clients that they want to
(17:14):
reach or something is is thedynamics, are a lot of
complaints, right, but no, theydon't reach out.
For that, I think it'sdifficult and I like.
So I've been working withengineers lately, jesse and I
love engineers.
I never thought I was gonnalove engineers so much because I
(17:34):
have nothing about engineeringin my life.
I'm not an engineer, I marriedone, but I don't have anything.
But I love working with themand I my mission in life is to
be able to help them understandthat these skills of being open,
of connecting, reallyinfluencing others or motivating
others or building good teamsare skills like the skills that
(17:59):
they use to measure windows, forexample, or do whatever
technical work that they have todo.
That there are skills that wecan learn, that we can learn,
and there are ways to learnthose skills and then you can
implement them and you can bebetter at those, and those are
going to help you tremendouslyAt work outside of work
(18:22):
personally, right internally.
But I think what causes me a lotof frustration is that nobody
teaches us these skills.
Nobody does so.
I remember a long time ago whenI was like, oh, my friend was
selected to go to leadershipskills training and it was a big
deal and I'm like, oh cool,what is that?
(18:43):
I mean, this is decades ago,right, and it's like why some
people are selected to go tothis?
Right, why only some peoplewhen there's skills that
everybody needs?
So it pains me when I see a lotof young engineers, young that
are absolutely clueless in howto develop their teams, but not
(19:06):
because they don't want to orthey can't, it's because they
don't know how.
So I want to do that and thatwill require a little bit of
vulnerability, right?
Yeah, I don't use the word alot, but it's needed because you
have to to learn new things.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, thank you, and it's not picking on engineers,
but learn new things.
Thank you, and it's not pickingon engineers, but I get it Like
the folks that I know that havethe engineer mindset.
They place tremendous value ontheir technical expertise and
almost have zero value forinterpersonal expertise,
(19:43):
relationship, communication,conversational because what are
we talking about?
Tell me what we need to do,which is fine, until you have to
lead people, and so and to yourpoint, I think you made this
point, so I want to ask it adifferent way is people are
people, they're always going tobe people, but then we put them
in this work environment and,for some reason, it's like the
(20:07):
work environment is designed tohelp people hate each other.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That's so funny.
I mean, yeah, it seems likethere are certain situations of
being so close to each otherthat that competitive aspect of
the workplace right that ourcultural values I mean we live
in western societies where wehave very specific gender roles
(20:37):
that we have to follow, somemore than others, but they exist
and all that is like, like yousaid, it puts all the
ingredients in the stove in thatworkplace, right the pot or the
perfect soup or the perfectstorm, whatever.
I think that I once read.
I once they told me to a pointthat it is only in these
(21:01):
interpersonal relationshipswhere we grow as people.
We can learn all the technical.
But the system was created.
I always tell my clients youwere put in the perfect lab for
it, but you were put in theperfect lab to develop what you
have to develop.
Now they put all theingredients you want to call God
(21:26):
, the universe like a lego setand they put all their little
ingredients for you to developyour new skills.
So you have to develop.
They did it, it's there for you.
So I think that the workplaceis a perfect and families also.
I think that we're oh my god,but it's because the system we
were designed to develop throughthose interactions with other
(21:49):
human beings, because if not,there's no growth.
I mean, there is no advancement.
I mean, of course, you canlearn to code beautifully or you
can learn to whatever, but thereal advancement is through
these personal interactions.
Yes, that's what I found out.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I, luckily, I had a boss who told me, jess, you're
pretty good Technically, you'regood foreman, you make money,
get jobs done on time, but ourpeople quit on you and our
clients hate you.
And I said, yeah, you're goingto have to start developing
(22:31):
people.
And so, which was again back tothe structure of business.
Like, we hire people and weassign them specific tasks and
when they execute those tasksreally well, we give them a
raise, we give them a promotion,give them more tasks.
They get good at those.
We give them a raise, we givethem a promotion.
And so the whole time we'rereinforcing their abilities as
(22:55):
an individual contributor and tobe excellent on execution of
things.
And then we say, okay, they gotso good, now we're going to
make them in charge of people.
And because this whole time was,say, three, five, eight years,
whatever it was, I wassuccessful by managing things, I
(23:15):
end up managing people as ifthey're things and there's no
ladder or development of.
Okay, let's start helping youdevelop the skills to, to, to
communicate concisely, to takefeedback, to deliver feedback.
Like that doesn't happen untileverybody's quitting on you.
(23:36):
Am I wrong, or was that just mystory?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Of course.
Yeah, I mean that's, you'retotally right.
I mean I had a client who thefirst session he sat down and he
said I just told my high schoolage kid, whatever you do in
life, do not manage people.
I mean he was that frustrated.
He was that frustrated becausehe was a civil engineer, super
(24:01):
smart.
I'm sure he coasted throughschool.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
He got a master's degree.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
He advanced because they're very high demand Civil
engineers are in high demand sohe had a very good job and then
he had to manage people in adifferent place and it was a lot
of ingredients that again werecreating that perfect storm.
And he was like I just told mykid whatever you do not manage
people.
And I'm like how can you belike that I mean regardless of
(24:28):
work how can you feel soincapable of dealing with people
?
It's not a good place to beright.
Yes, but a lot of people do.
They promote and hope.
I'm sure you've heard that word.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Promote and hope.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
And let's see how it goes.
And also the Peter Principleright when you go, you advance,
you send and then at some pointthings are going to get
interesting.
I think it takes a lot ofawareness at all levels of the
organization Awareness at high,those people who are like, hey,
what are we going to do when wepromote people?
What plan do we have?
(25:04):
Do we have someone who can help?
I mean, how we're going to dothis.
And then awareness at the otherlevels is like, hey, I'm about
to do this, I need help, to askfor help, we have to do
something for me and my otherpeople and my teams and
everything, but just hoping thatthings are going to happen are
it's going to be hard, becausethose are not innate.
Even I've always said this,even for me consultant on people
(25:28):
skills or whatever I have todevelop my own people skills.
I have to put some practice onthose.
I mean, I have to put my workon those because it's not, again
, automatic, it's not an aid.
Or you can be like my husbandwho said I'm sorry, I'm not
going to manage anyone, so dowhatever you want to do.
(25:49):
He's an engineer, coding andhe's happy and he has never
managed people.
So, but you have to have somekind of awareness to realize,
hey, we're going to, we needsomething for our people and you
also ask, hey, don't leave mealone here, please help me out
in one way or another.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, no, I think that's a great point your
husband recognized.
I am not going to do that andthere's a cost to it.
If you're not willing to dothat, there's a certain level
and cool If you're good withthat, good, we need you to do
the coding.
But if you want to advance,you're going to have to.
(26:26):
You really are going to have tomanage people, and so what can
you do to start building thoseskills?
Now, what have you learnedabout yourself through the work
that you do and watching thepatterns and guiding people and
restructuring?
What popped up that surprisedyou about you?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I love that question because, again, that curiosity
that keeps moving me to go andmove countries and do this and
do that.
Sometimes it's hard to put ittowards yourself right, turn
around and be curious aboutyourself.
And I've yeah, that is not aseasy even I mean for no one, I
(27:00):
think, and me included.
So I've learned that I'm verytenacious, I stick.
I've learned that I'm verytenacious, I stick, I won't quit
, I stick.
But I've also learned that I amnot the expert in a lot of
things.
I mean you have to be humble,you have to be open, to continue
(27:24):
learning.
I think it's related, but Ithink I've learned that and I
also have to learn how to bevulnerable.
Let's be honest about that.
It's something about theeducation and the.
I mean I have a PhD and allthat and I'm like that's not not
that it's not enough, but it'slike that doesn't tell the whole
story.
You have to continue how to bevulnerable and ask for help and
(27:49):
reach out and more.
When you think that you havereached out, you reach out more
and try, you try more.
And when you think that youhave, whatever is it?
I think that has been one of mybig learnings.
That is a work in progress,it's never ending and it's part
of being human.
So, but it's hard, it's hard.
(28:10):
There are risks of beingvulnerable, especially for a
woman, and so there are a lot oflatinas or the little risks,
but I've learned to that.
Yeah, I have to also put alittle bit of walk the talk a
little bit yeah oh, yeah,definitely yeah, well, I love it
, it's, it's that right.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
It's sure I can help.
Oh, and there's room here too.
There's some work I need to dohere.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
When I moved here, like I said, I mean I knew
everything but it was a culturalshock.
And then I got my therapist.
Of course I was working for 10years and then we parted ways
and then I'm seeing another one.
But it's like going to the gym.
I mean my muscles are not goingto stay muscle strong if I
don't go to the gym.
But we have such a hard timetalking about those things and I
(28:57):
think it's getting better.
I think a little bit better,but it's hard to understand that
.
It's just part of being healthyand sometimes it's easier said
than done.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Definitely Okay.
Now you've mentioned the wordcultural a few times and I want
to come back and talk aboutcultural competence.
But before that, like back whenyou were in Monterrey, 15, 10,
12 years old, did you know?
Oh, this is what I want to do.
I'm going to have my doctoratedegree, I'm going to be in
Austin, I'm going to beconsulting and helping with
(29:29):
people.
Was it that easy?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
No, not at all.
I mean, I had really no ideawhat I was thinking when I was
10 or 12 or 15, what I wanted todo.
I'm thinking, but I, I wentinto education after, after
college, I went to education andI realized that I said I
learning, I like teaching, Ithink I like that ecosystem of
learning, and so definitely thatwas part of me.
(29:56):
But and then at some point Ireally wanted, I was like at
this time I have to go, I haveto go.
I was.
One thing that is funny and Iwant to put it here for everyone
to know, is that I was stillliving at home because in Mexico
it's very common to live withyour parents for longer than
just and I went to college in myhometown, so I was still there.
So it was really a time to moveRight and and I said, okay,
(30:19):
let's just go.
But I had no idea, really hadno idea.
Came to UT and I was going toapply to another master's but
the admissions officer said, oh,you already have a master's,
and she took out the applicationand she put the application for
the PhD and I mean and I'm like, why not?
(30:40):
And I have to say that, ofcourse, definitely, coming here
to this country and UT changedme completely.
I'm a whole different person.
You cannot go through a PhDprogram and not change
completely, and there's still alot of things to change and fix
right, but it definitely changed.
(31:00):
And then that's when I realizedthat there was a lot of work to
do with the Latino community inthis country.
So in one way or another, I'vealways been helping the Latino
community, and that's first ineducation.
I work with school districtsacross the state.
I work with a lot of educationagencies, and then I moved into.
(31:21):
I wanted to see okay, well,let's see how the Latino
community is doing in corporateAmerica, so let's go there.
So I work there, always tryingto support not always, but big
time of my work has been towardsthe Latino community, and
that's the kind of one of thethings that brought me into
construction.
Be honest, I mean, it was aboutthe Latino community.
(31:42):
I work with everyone, but ofcourse, the Latino community is
very important to me and that'sone of the reasons that I'm
doing what I'm doing.
Definitely I want to supportthe Latino worker, construction
workers and employees.
I think they are, as we allknow, a big part of the
construction industry and I wantthem to keep racing and keep
(32:04):
moving into higher positions ofvisibility, and that's one of
the reasons that I'm doing alsoall this work, but no plans for
that absolutely no good, becauseso far no one said well, I take
that back, I make it shapiro.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
She's the one person man, there may be a couple other
people I know, but she's theone person I've interviewed who
said oh yeah, I knew I was goingto be a lawyer when I was a
teenager.
I was going to be a lawyer, andshe's a dang lawyer now.
She probably didn't know thatshe was going to be starting her
own little business andmanaging conferences and stuff.
(32:41):
But I think for the L&M familymembers out there, it's not a
straight line.
And I think one thing youtouched on that I think is super
, super important is, yes, whichand I appreciate greatly you do
have a PhD from the Universityof Texas in Austin and master's
from Monterrey.
I mean, you're extremelyaccomplished and credentialed
(33:03):
and I'm just a really goodlooking plumber and the way you
make me feel human and accepted,right.
So there's these insecurities ofI don't have the credentials, I
don't have the certifications,but we can still have this
amazing conversation becausewe're human beings, and so I
want to put that.
The reason I'm saying that isso that the listeners out there
(33:26):
I understand how scary andintimidating it can be to not
have the certifications andcredentials and whatever, and
sure if you want to go get them.
But that doesn't make you anymore, any less human, and you
kind of touched on that earlierwhen you were talking about what
you learned about.
Yes, you can have the degreesand the certifications and all
the things, and you're stillhuman.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
You're learning.
I still have flaws many of themand I still catch myself like,
oh, did you just do that?
I mean, okay, where did thatcome from?
I mean humans, we're totallyhumans, right?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Oh, my God, I love that.
Now I was looking at yourLinkedIn bio and there was
something in there aboutcultural competence and I don't
know enough about it, exceptthat I'm like there's something
valuable there.
So what is cultural competenceLike?
How can our people, thelisteners, think about that so
(34:23):
that they can better serve thepeople in their, in their
surrounding?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Oh, I love cultural companies.
I love that topic, of course,and that's one of my, that's why
it's one of my services, but soI work, maybe not as much as I
want, but I do it in one way oranother.
Always add some of those,because is that is when I
support people, learn.
support people to learn how towork better across cultures
(34:48):
because, we, and then, forexample, the Latino culture, and
you have many other cultures,people that have teams in India,
right, and they have teams inKorea.
Now, we have a lot oforganizations that have teams
all over the world right, it'shappening.
So when we are faced withdifference, when we are faced
with cultural differences,there's always going to be like
(35:12):
a break right, either consciousor unconsciously.
This is different and we haveall the alert signs.
This is different.
I don't understand what's goingon here and I sometimes I joke
that I live in a world of I justdon't get it.
I just don't get it.
Who knows they're like that orlike this?
Who knows, it's weird, it'sdifferent.
(35:32):
So I help them develop thoseskills that make them good at
working across cultures.
So develop their culturalcompetence, because there's
always going to be somedifferences.
There are differences becausewe have different personality
right, they're a very individuallevel, but there are also
differences that are therebecause of different cultures.
(35:55):
So I try to support theunderstanding of these
differences so we can workbetter together.
Now I have my.
That I find fascinatingregarding the construction
company is that sometimes thiscultural difference can affect I
mean, it affects everything theway we communicate, the way we
(36:18):
build trust.
But it can also affect safety,because there's a lot of
articles and I'm a total.
I go to Google Scholar once aday.
I'm sorry, but I'm talkingabout articles and there's a lot
of research that talks abouthow safety might be impacted by
these cultural differences.
For example, the Latinoconstruction worker might say
(36:41):
since one of our Latino culturalvalues is familismo and we are
very community-centered andfamily-centered, we keep these
groups right.
But, sometimes, if the primo, ifthe cousin is not doing what
the supervisor said, I'm goingto follow what the cousin is
doing, not what the supervisoris telling me to do.
(37:04):
The cousin is part of my group,yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Part of my group.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
So Part of my group.
So that can be one way.
And the supervisor who's?
No, I don't understand, he'sweird, it's another culture.
I'm going to be a little bitmore so that might be one way
where cultural violence mightaffect safety, for example.
So then it gets in the way.
So I think it's essential for usto understand how we work
(37:31):
across cultures.
We need to know that we'regoing to have ways of seeing the
world that are based on ourculture.
That might be different and youhave to.
I always say you have to stopyour cultural cruise control
Driving and we have our ownviews, views and we just go
(37:52):
through life.
We don't think about thatbecause of course, that's the
way that we've been functioningsince we were babies.
But I always say you have tostop your cultural cruise
control.
Stop it because and think, hey,can this be seen from
differently, from anotherperspective?
Can this be due to a differentcultural aspect?
(38:13):
Possibly this was because ofsomething that I had not
considered, but only when youstop that cultural cruise
control right, you stop and youask those questions, you become
respectfully curious.
I always talk about that Veryrespectful, and you ask and you
get to know other cultures andways of being and doing.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So that's why, oh, you just stirred the pot so
cultural.
Here's one thing, folks, if youdidn't catch this Ellen and
family member, the way you break, or the medicine for cultural
cruise control is to berespectfully curious.
Now, when I hear respectfullyI'm sorry cultural cruise
(38:58):
control, I want to share a storybecause I know I'm not the only
one that's had this problem.
And I want to know is that anexample of cultural cruise
control?
Now, when I was brought up, yourespect your elders.
Right To this day, when I'mtalking to an elder and they
call my name, I say Monday, Idon't even.
(39:20):
It's just a natural thing,right, hey, chewy, just Monday.
I know like I'm not going tosay what, because then I'm going
to get slapped, amen.
And so my upbringing was respectyour elders, don't challenge
your elders, don't talk back toyour elders, respect your elders
, which served me very well whenI was a student and a kid.
(39:42):
But then I got into theprofessional space and it didn't
serve me very well.
Like, only to like.
When I was ready, like I needmore challenge, I want to grow
and get promoted, and stilldidn't challenge my elders or
the authority.
It was a problem.
Because why, Like?
You're never saying anything,you just agree.
You're not bringing anything tothe table and I'm like y'all
(40:04):
are.
You're the elders, you're thebosses.
Is that an example of culturalcruise control?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Exactly we can talk.
I mean, let me go and get morecoffee because we can talk hours
and hours about this.
Exactly, my culture, yourculture, control was just going
in one way.
This is the only way, this is away that I know how to function
, how to work, how to do thisone.
But at some point the contextwas like and then you stop.
But at some point the contextwas like and then you stop.
(40:30):
I have to turn off this cruisecontrol and learn and adapt and
learn and see what I need to do.
And I think I have the sameexact example At UT Dr Jo Worthy
.
That was one of my advisors.
Dr Worthy asked me to call herJo by her first name, jesse.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Was that?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
hard.
She was a professor, my advisor, and I was like I can't.
Meanwhile, shauna and I alwaysset an example.
And Shauna was an Anglo girl.
A friend of mine was still intouch.
Shauna had been calling Josince day number one of the
program.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
And then I couldn't even call Dr Worthy Joe until
for six months.
I didn't call her anything, Iwas just like hi how are you?
Fine, and then what happened?
I'm like, uh-uh, you have to,yeah you have to right.
So that is that kind of okay.
But the respectful curiositythat I talk is that maybe from
(41:33):
other people your supervisorsand your example could have
stopped their own culturalcruise control and say what's
going on here?
There must be something elsegoing on here.
Yeah, that is that's why, jesse, that case is behaving in this
way.
So what's going on here?
(41:53):
So they could also have stoppedtheir culture control and said
hey, jesse, tell us more aboutyour culture.
Who are you, what do you think,what do you appreciate, what do
you value?
I mean those conversations ofconnecting you don't have to
become best friends witheveryone at work, but those
connections is like Tell me morein a very respectful way,
(42:15):
that's all I'll say.
Respectful curiosity Tell memore about how you see life, how
you see war, how do you seeyour advancement, what are you
thinking?
I mean, tell me about how youexperience world and the job as
a Latino man in this country, orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Beautiful point.
I did have somebody who hadthat cure, that respectful
curiosity, and this was now I'mlike at this point in my career,
I have regional responsibility,I'm traveling around the
country and it was the firstmeeting that he and I were in
and I have a like I've gottenover the challenging authority,
like I'm fine with it at thispoint, and but I didn't say
(42:51):
anything.
And we it was like a four hourworkshop strategy check-in,
whatever it was, and I didn'tsay a whole lot.
And so after the meeting hesaid hey, jess, I asked you some
question.
I'm not, I really am just beingcurious.
I'm not judging you.
I was like, yeah, don't like,what's your problem?
He said well, you wereextremely quiet, you didn't say
(43:13):
a lot.
You asked questions but youdidn't say a lot.
Is it because you don't thinkit's appropriate for you to
speak in the room?
And I say thank you for askingme that question, cause now I
know that you're a he's a realone.
Right, he gets it.
So thank you for answeringasking me that question.
I said no, I said I have adopteda way, a mode of operation,
(43:37):
where I am not going to saysomething if it's redundant, if
somebody already said thethought that I had.
I don't need to change or sayit a different way.
I don't need to be seen likeI'm here, and so what that means
is I will only speak when Icare about something deeply and
it hasn't been said.
(43:57):
He's oh.
I was like, yeah, he's okay.
I said let me guess you you'veseen other guys like me, with a
beautiful tan, like me, thatdon't speak up, and it's because
they're afraid they're notsupposed to.
He's like how'd you know?
I said cause I used to be thatway.
Right, we're all like that.
Right, I get it, I don't havethat problem anymore.
I'm just not going to repeatsomething that's already been
(44:18):
said.
I want to contribute value, andif I can't contribute value,
then let's at least keep itgoing.
We don't need to be saying thesame thing a million times, and
so I guess maybe the takeawayfor our listener is they're out
there, so find them.
And when I say they, theamazing leaders that have this
cultural awareness and therespectful curiosity, they are
(44:41):
there.
You just got to find them.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
And also do your own cultural understanding of who
you are, culturally speaking,like when I couldn't say, when I
couldn't call Joe Joe formonths, it was not because I was
defective, it was not because Ihad a problem, it was not
because I was not that smart, itwas just because my culture had
(45:05):
taught me differently.
Yeah, I understood that.
I said that's one of my we callthem cultural scripts that
respect the cultural script.
When I understood that and so Ican just flip the script and I
am going to learn how to adapt,how to use my flexibility as a
Latina and use it in the waythat it has to be used.
(45:27):
There's a lot of anxiety aboutchanging your behavior and this
and that, but I think that weare all adapting, we're all
flexible, we have to, and it'simportant and it's growth.
When we adapt and learn andchange.
It's beautiful without beinghard on ourselves.
In your own cultural awareness.
(45:49):
Who are you culturally and howyou act?
When you can name it, you can,tame it, you can say hi, it's
not that it's.
I'm just being respectfulbecause I was taught to do that.
Okay, that's it Not a big deal?
Then you can just change itwhen needed and according to the
circumstances, and then we'regoing to be fine.
(46:10):
But if you are unaware, whenyou cannot name it, then you
cannot do anything about that.
You cannot tame it.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yes, no.
I think what I love the most isthe awareness, and for me, I've
learned that if I just slowdown a little bit, my awareness
will spike.
But if I'm running 100 miles anhour all the time, guess what's
not happening.
I am not aware of myself at all.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
And we go back to the cruise control right, as useful
as it is, stop it every once ina while, and you can.
I mean, I talk about culturalcruise control, but we can talk
about anything, becausesometimes we're just doing
putting out fires left and rightwithout stopping, without hey,
what's going on, withoutengaging in reflective practice,
(46:58):
what information am I getting,and what is that information
telling me about?
Things might have to be donedifferently, but that craziness
of life is we have to stopsometimes, right?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yes, 100% Now you.
So you and I connected you.
I know you connected with mysister, jennifer Lacey,
connected with Megan.
You've traveled, you've come infrom another country.
I have a friend, her name'sAnessa.
I haven't talked to her inyears.
Nessa and Estella I met them insalsa class.
Oh cool, oh yeah, it wasamazing.
(47:34):
It's a long time ago and theyjust traveled all over the place
, like they just met people.
I was like, wow, y'all are.
I want to be like y'all when Igrow up.
And now I'm a little more likethat.
You have decided tointentionally.
It's what it looks like to me.
It looks like you said you knowwhat I want to connect with
these people in this space andI'm going to go do it and you're
(47:56):
doing it now.
That is terrifying for themajority of people in general.
And then if I zoom in for womenin general, and then if I zoom
in for Latinas, it's like moreand more profound that you're
doing this.
And so what I think might behelpful for folks is how did you
(48:20):
get, how do you think aboutwhat you're doing in those terms
, like you're not necessarilythe work that you do, your
expertise, but just puttingyourself out there to connect
with people.
How do you do that?
How do you get the courage todo that?
Speaker 1 (48:36):
It's funny, right, because it doesn't seem
courageous when I do it, butwhen I think about it I'm like,
oh, and when I think, when I gointo my reflective practice,
right, and I think about me andmy life, I was an extremely shy
little girl.
I was a shy little girl.
So this is what happens, and Ihope people listen to this,
(48:58):
especially the younger Age.
Years of experience is amazingbecause it gives a different
perspective, right, differentway of like hey, you know what?
Nothing happened Suddenly.
Only good things happen.
So I always want to condensetime for others.
If it took me 10 years for meand I wanted to take it in three
(49:18):
, right.
So that's a lot of things thatI do, but what makes me do it is
that I have definitely age hasgiven me wisdom to understand
that there are very few thingsthat are permanent and that,
generally speaking, people aredoing their best and that they
(49:40):
are going to help you.
If they don't help you, it'sbecause at that time they can't,
or they are too busy or tooengaged in something else, or
whatever.
It's not.
I've learned not to take itpersonally.
I've learned that they aredoing really their best, and a
lot has to do with my coachingschool.
Of course, coaching changes youas well, but I think that it
(50:04):
just I have this feeling thatnothing bad is going to happen,
it's going to work out and thatif I go out and connect with
people, even if it's oneconversation, I'm going to gain
something out of that.
Nothing is there to lose,nothing is going to gain
something out of that.
Sure, nothing is there to lose.
Nothing is going to.
No one is going.
What is the worst that canhappen?
(50:25):
So I think that keeps me movingand I want other people to
start thinking and hearing theseideas so they can start doing
that extra thing, taking thatextra risk, taking that, and do
it Really.
There are very few things thatare permanent and when we're
being authentic and where we areconnecting, we're just
connecting.
(50:45):
Hey, I'm knocking the door.
Are you going to open the door?
Fine, if not, okay, I'll tryagain another day, but it is.
I understand sometimes we havea lot of fears of rejection, but
once you start doing it, youdevelop the habit and you're
like hey, you know what I thinkalso, you change your attitude.
Also, it's like nothing, butit's going to happen.
They might say no, but if yousay no, okay, what next?
(51:08):
I mean Next exactly?
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.
I did a very good jobexplaining, but I think it's
this combination of like why notwhat's?
the best that can happen.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, no, I think you did do a great job because it
is a mindset, I mean the twothings that I, the little simple
frameworks that I use for thiskind of situation, because
people say, like my mom, she's,like you're crazy, like the
things that you do and thethings that you say.
You put it all out there, likeyeah, you know it'll be fine.
(51:46):
So two things is this onefailure is not fatal.
If I fail, I ain't going to die.
I'll be like, I'm going tolearn from it.
The other thing is I get tochoose between rejection or
regret.
I will take rejection all day,every day, because regretting
always come for me, always comefrom not taking the step or
making the ask.
Rejection next.
(52:07):
Who do I talk to next?
You don't like me?
Good, who's next?
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, it's a gradual process because, not because I
reach out to you and to Colleenand to Megan and to Jennifer I
mean, I reach out to Jen whatI'm like that day, I think I'm
going to be in Dallas tomorrow,can I see you?
Things like that and so I'mgoing up in that.
Let's do it.
Let's do it Connect.
And there's some other areaswhere I'm like, no, I don't.
(52:31):
Yeah, there's not a straightline and not everything moves at
the same rhythm.
Don't feel like, hey, but Ican't talk to Jennifer Lacey out
of the blue, but oh my God, Icannot do a webinar, for example
, right?
So don't expect everything tomove at the same rhythm, in the
same direction.
(52:52):
So we have to understand thatthere's two steps ahead and
maybe one step to the side, onestep behind, and so all these
things, and I want especiallythese young people to understand
that.
So don't be scared.
If there are some areas when wedon't feel because I feel them
as well right, but I thinkthere's a lot more to lose if
(53:15):
not doing it than in doing.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yes, yes, yeah.
Just give it a shot.
You'll get better on the nextone.
And I think you made a superimportant point.
It's not all things move at thesame rate.
It's okay to be great at onething and not great at the other
thing.
It's okay to be sprinting onone thing and then still
thinking about the other.
Give yourself some grace, it'sgoing to be okay.
So if people want to work withyou, where do we send them, dr
(53:43):
Alejandra?
Speaker 1 (53:45):
We send them to.
I spend a lot of time onLinkedIn and I have my website.
So one of the my yeah, mywebsite, and we can put it there
later.
So, but LinkedIn and my websiteare my two, the two places
where they can find me.
I'm there and I always respondto people.
I always respond to people.
(54:06):
I have people like, hey, I'mgoing to be there, I need to
talk to you.
I haven't seen you in threeyears.
Text me.
Here's my number, text me andI'm like come on, but I'm always
there I love to work with.
I'm very interested inconstruction.
Again, it's something that isalso kind of a newish side for
me.
I'm very interested, I love towork with people who work in
(54:30):
real projects, I think.
So that's the way I see it.
So I'm open for any kind ofconversation.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
Please reach out Good , good, okay.
So we'll make sure we have thatinformation in the show notes.
Y'all need to reach out to DrAlejandra For the very least to
say I know a doctor, I have adoctor in my team.
That's what I'm doing For theGrand Slam final question Okay.
Slam, final question, okay.
(55:03):
So I love, totally appreciate,like your adventurous spirit,
the cultures and careers andindustries that you've learned
to adapt into quickly, and theconnections that you've made
with people in terms of helpingthem understand that they're not
defective.
And so the little that I knowabout you suggest to me that
what you're going to answer,what your answer is going to be,
is going to be pretty damnprofound.
(55:24):
And so here's the question whatis the promise you are intended
to be?
Speaker 1 (55:31):
I want to.
The promise that I'm intendedto be is to help more and more
people develop those peopleskills that we need in this
world, Because if not, if wedon't have them, it's a very
hard world to live in.
So I want to contribute to that.
There's a little bit of thingabout me that I was never taught
(55:55):
directly.
I had to learn on my own that Iwas never taught directly, had
to learn on my own.
And if I can help other peoplelearn those so they can have
better interactions in theworkplace and there's a lot of
success and a lot ofsatisfaction that they're going
to feel.
So if I can contribute to that,that would be very cool.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Oh, my goodness.
So you're already doing it,you're just going to do more of
it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
I'm doing more.
Oh, there is a lot of time, alot of things that I have to do,
so still, yes, there's a lotabout also working across
countries, like really workacross countries, be able to go
and do some of this in Mexico,and so that's also another big
thing that I want to keep inmind.
But, yeah, definitely, and Ithink the promise I mean the
more I think about that as I'mtalking, it's like just
(56:38):
enlighten people, give them theknowledge, the how, help them
see.
It's very frustrating when youkind of understand there's
something there but you cannotsee Something.
I cannot see, like I cannotreally get it.
What is it?
It's not working, something isnot right and there's a lot of
heaviness in that, and I want toremove that heaviness so they
(56:58):
can understand hey, we can dothis, there's skills that I can
learn.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Oh, I love that.
Oh my, you're a guide, a lightenabling people, supporting
people, catapulting people intoa higher quality of life Amazing
.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Did you have fun?
I had a great time.
I had a great time, I had agreat time and I love chatting
and talking to people.
So thank you, jesse, for havingme, and it's been a pleasure to
get to know you better and Ilearned a lot from you.
A lot from you and thank youfor opening your spaces for me.
It's been a pleasure, thank you.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yes, thank you for sticking it out all the way to
the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on and, in
appreciation for the gift oftime that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book Becoming the
Promise You're Intended to Be.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
(58:02):
There's a link in there.
You just click that and you candownload the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate yousharing.
That increases the likelihoodthat it's going to help one more
person.
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
(58:23):
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be Be kind to
yourself, be cool, and we'lltalk at you next time.
Okay, so I can just flip the script and I am going
(00:03):
to learn how to adapt, how touse my flexibility as a Latina,
and use it in the way that ithas to be used.
There's a lot of anxiety aboutchanging your behavior and this
and that, but I think that we'reall adapting, we're all
flexible.
We have to, and it's importantand it's growth when we adapt
(00:26):
and learn and change.
It's beautiful without beinghard on ourselves.
In your own cultural awareness,who are you culturally and how
you act.
When you can name it, you cantame it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
What is going on?
L m family back again, and thistime I have like a super I
don't even know how to say itlike just super engaging and
courageous human being.
She reached out, we connectedon the linkedin and she says,
hey, I've got, let's talk.
I got some questions.
I want to meet up like yeah,sure, and it's like in person,
oh okay.
And on the weekend, oh okay.
(01:04):
Like very few people have thatlevel of courage and I'm so glad
I did it.
She's an amazing human being.
So if talent development issomething that you've ever had
to deal with or wish you knewhow to do, she is the ultra
expert at maximizing talent,developing leadership and
(01:26):
interpersonal skills, and she'sworked in a multitude of
industries construction,healthcare, finance, tech,
manufacturing, like all of theabove.
So if you're going to try andwiggle out of well, that doesn't
apply to me.
You're a liar.
She's got it going on.
Dr Alejandra Rodriguez-Milkeyis going to blow our mind with
(01:48):
all the secret sauce that shehas to fix companies and make
things awesome.
But before that, if this isyour first time here, this is
the Learnings and Misstepspodcast, where you get to meet
amazing human beings just likeyou who are sharing their gifts
and talents to leave this worldbetter than they found it.
(02:11):
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to
know Dr Alejandra.
Dr Alejandra, how are you today?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I'm doing fantastic, thank you.
Thank you for having me, jesse.
I'm super happy to be here andbe able to have this
conversation with you today.
So thank you, ready, happy tobe here.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yes, I'm excited, folks, if y'all don't know this,
well, y'all wouldn't know this.
Not only is like Dr Alejandro,like straight up, let's go,
let's connect action oriented.
Let's go, let's connect actionoriented.
I'm going to say it, you'rethat way times a thousand,
because you and I had aconversation over coffee.
We talked about a newsletter,and then, bam, like a week later
, you launched a newsletter.
(02:53):
Like you, just, you justdefault to action.
Has that always been the wayyou operate?
Where does that come from?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, yes, some people call it impulsiveness.
Yeah, I love doing things.
It's always for me, it's alwayswhat's next?
What's on the other side?
What happens if I turn aroundthis corner?
What am I going to find?
What am I going to do?
So I've always been veryrestless.
(03:25):
There's something about thatthat might be a little bit of
impulsiveness, yes, and a lot ofcuriosity.
I cannot be in a place that I'mnot learning and I'm finding
out new things and it's whatdrives me, that curiosity to go
and see what's out there in theworld different industries,
(03:45):
different organizations,different human beings.
So that's what moves thataction.
Yeah, definitely, it's a senseof curiosity, of doing and
learning and finding out what'slike.
I said, what's around thecorner.
So it's been close to me.
I think that's one of thereasons that I'm in this country
.
I moved from Monterrey, mexico,here actually 25 years ago
(04:08):
Exactly Last week I celebratedmy 25th anniversary.
Yeah, that was because Icouldn't stay.
I mean, I had to go, I had tomove, I had to go and learn.
So that's something that hasbeen with me and I think it's
connected to my father, eventhough he might not appreciate
all my moves all the time, ofcourse not, but when he.
(04:30):
But of course I think it's alot because of him.
He was, he had that kind ofpersonality as well so, always
learning, always eager,challenging, curious, exploring.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I think it's amazing because I'm, you can't tell, I
have the same energy and Itotally appreciate it.
But I also I've, I've been toldthe same Jesse, you're too
impulsive.
Okay, whatever Like.
Until you have to pay for myimpulsiveness, don't complain,
because I'm paying for it.
You're not Now the curiosity,the adventure.
How is that connected toorganizational analysis, because
(05:02):
I know that's kind of yoursweet spot analyzing the way
organizations function and soforth.
What is the connection betweenthat and your bias to action,
your curiosity, that need tokeep learning and growing?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
I've been always fascinated by human beings.
I major in English literature,so for me it was really about
stories, learning more about thehuman beings.
I majored in English literature, so for me it was really about
stories, learning more about thehuman being.
And, of course, literature is areflection of our thoughts and
ideas and beliefs and how weadvance, right, so it was always
something about the humanbeings.
(05:38):
And then I became an expert inlearning and education, right,
and how to ensure that people gofrom point A to point B, right,
that movement, that learning,and I think that's what has been
guiding me all this time.
I think I would have been afantastic anthropologist as well
, because I do want tounderstand what makes people
(06:01):
move, what makes people act inthe ways they act, what makes
people change, because that'sthe hard one, as we all know,
right, what is it there?
What are some contexts thatmake this change, this
advancement, more easy for somepeople, and what other contexts
that things just do not move andyou go back and you hear the
(06:26):
same complaints, right, and youhear the same problems, and you
go back and they're like, okay,there's no movement.
And I'm always been veryfascinated and curious about
this.
What are the contexts thatcreate this change, this
advancement, right and what arethe ones that not?
And it's easy for me to go on,whether, regardless of the
(06:46):
organization, the teams, theindustry, like I said, I go
there and I start observing withmy big research eyes and my big
anthropological eyes what'sgoing on here right?
What are the missing piecesthat can make this better?
What's not working well?
And for me and I'm sure it'sgoing to be similar to you it's
(07:08):
always around the people.
It's always around the people,the way that we interact with
each other, the way that werelate to each other.
And when we have work in themiddle of those interactions,
then we have to talk aboutdemands and orders and hierarchy
and bosses, so it messes thewhole thing up.
(07:29):
But we live in a world where weare in workplaces a lot of a
time, like a chunk of our time.
So we need to understand howare these content, these
workplaces created and what canwe do to make them better?
Because work workspaces are notgoing to go anywhere, so
(07:49):
they're here today.
So it's always interesting tofor me.
I always go into the people.
What are those dynamics thatare not working?
Other people might go and takea look at the workplace from a
different perspective.
But it's all about people.
I think it's key.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
So what I'm hearing is, when you're talking about
works, but you're talking about,your focus is human dynamics,
interpersonal relationships, notthe structure.
I mean the structure, of course, but not like the lighting or
floor plan.
You're talking about how dopeople interact, function within
(08:28):
this organization, which is,I'm sure?
How many times have you heardthis question?
Maybe it's not even a question.
Well, I don't know if yourstuff is going to help, because
we're different.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
And I believe that one for a little bit.
And oh, yeah, oh, I want to go.
I'm curious me.
Oh, you're yeah, oh, I want togo, I'm curious me, oh, you're
different.
Oh, I'll be there, I reallywant to see.
And then, when I started seeing,oh, this is not this, I've seen
this, I've seen this.
And you're like, oh, patternsbegin to show up, patterns of
(09:01):
interactions, and I'm like, oh,no, I mean, of course there's
some differences, right, butthere are a lot of similarities,
because we're all human beingsand we have a lot of these.
A lot is about fear, right, weare very afraid of what other
people are going to think aboutus, fear of rejection, fear of a
lot of things, and they are,they create.
(09:22):
These patterns, are very, areeasy to see in many different
ideas, very different contexts.
And I think, for me, one thingthat I have to say as an
immigrant, because I'm animmigrant in this country, right
, I think, when you come to adifferent country, even though I
already spoke English, eventhough I had been in Austin,
texas, texas, for a long beforeI moved here, I even had a few
(09:44):
friends here, so it was not acompletely foreign to me, but
still coming.
When you come to another country, you have to adapt different
ways.
You have to keep your eyes opento people are doing things
differently.
So that gives me or has givenme, I think this extra
sensitivity to go and observeand say, hey, what's going on
(10:10):
here, what's working, what's notworking.
And I think that's what givesme that extra thing, what's
going on here?
Because I have to do that allmy life because I'm a foreigner
in this country.
I'm a foreigner, I have tolearn, I have to understand, I
have to adapt Right, yes, yes,adapt to.
I'm a foreigner in this country, I'm a foreigner.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I have to learn, I have to understand, I have to
adapt right yes, adapt to theconditions.
So you mentioned being ananthropologist and I want to be
clear.
I'm not trying to minimizepeople's problems, because there
are uniqueness, there arethings that are different,
nuances and so forth.
However, in all the industriesthat you've worked in
construction, healthcare,finance, tech, manufacturing,
(10:53):
all of it the one thing thatthey all absolutely have in
common is people.
We got to do the LNM familymember shout out, and this one
again, I didn't write the namedown, so I'm sorry.
I love you, but I didn't getyour name.
But here's the message she saysI took.
When I say she, I don't evenknow it's a she.
I took Jesse's class on timemanagement and you hit all the
(11:14):
high notes for me.
I love lists, I'm super visualand Jesse really knows how to
bring the best out of people andthe best out of the tools that
are readily available.
Thank you so much.
And if you're wondering whatthat testimonial is from or
about it's on the Self FirstTime Mastery Framework that a
(11:36):
whole bunch of people have beenthrough, If you want to design
the life that you really, reallywant, I could help you.
Hit the link sign up.
But more importantly toeverybody out there, you already
know, if you leave me a message, a testimonial, repost, do five
stars, all of the things.
Please do that because, one, ithelps me feel good because
(11:57):
somebody else is listening andtwo, it gives me the opportunity
to shout you out in a futureepisode.
People are people all the time.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
People are people, yes, definitely.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And so you mentioned in your work or just kind of in
general, you picked up on thepatterns of how this might be
going too far.
But you picked up on patternson dysfunctional, the
dysfunctionality.
What are some of the mostfrequent patterns that you've
seen out there?
Or maybe what are your favoriteones that you see?
Oh, I could help there.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So I, oh, I have so many, but I think one of the
ones that I think it's auniversal one and it's kind of
the basis and the foundation formany other things.
And it's this idea, the basisand the foundation for many
other things.
And it's this idea of fear,right, it's a fear that can has
many ways of showing up, right?
Fear of rejection, fear of whatother people are going to say,
(12:57):
right, especially a lot of usthat we were raised in latin
cultures, we have this thingabout what ¿Qué va a decir la
gente?
What are they going to sayabout me?
Fear of being taken advantageof, of being a joke, or fear of
being discovered.
So I think that is the fear, andI think it's a fear that has
(13:18):
many ways of showing up.
And I think this fear is aboutunderstanding that we are alone
in this world.
And I think at some point weunderstand that we are alone.
And I think that feeling ofbeing alone and unprotected, if
I can say that, that we have todo it on our own, is something
that, for some reason, is veryingrained in a lot of our
(13:42):
beliefs.
I don't know what you have seen,but I think for me is that it's
very ingrained, and then thatprevents us from being more open
.
Sometimes it prevents us fromhaving real and more meaningful
connections.
Right, and it's just this whichis kind of contradictory,
because you are afraid, you wantto protect yourself, but at the
(14:02):
same time you're not open andyou don't understand that by
opening and connecting you canalso protect yourself.
Yes, that you don't have to dothat on your own, but you don't
want to because you don't trust.
So I think for me it's alwaysaround this fear of, and I think
that we feel alone and we arealone, we come alone and we die
alone.
(14:22):
But I think there's amisunderstanding of how that we
can be in this world, and it hasto do with culture as well, the
individualistic culture of theUS, so all these things, and it
takes time because even that isa skill that we have to learn
(14:43):
how to connect, how to releasethat fear.
You talk a lot aboutvulnerability, right?
It's very easy to say the word.
I have an accent, a little bitof an accent.
I might struggle with the word,but it's very easy.
But it's very difficult to doit in real life In practice.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Oh my goodness, yes, 100%.
Do it in real life In practice.
Oh my goodness, yes, a hundredpercent.
So I had a one of one of mycounselors.
One of my therapists told meJesse, you suffer from chronic
uniqueness.
I was like what do you meanchronic uniqueness?
And the point was all like Iwould I refuse to recognize that
(15:24):
it's impossible for me to bethe only human being to have had
these experiences At this timein my life.
Vulnerability was absolutelynot an option.
There's no way which reinforcedmy problem.
If I wasn't willing to open upto people and admit that, hey, I
(15:44):
have this fear, this concern,whatever insecurity, I would
never learn that I'm not theonly one that has those fears
and insecurities.
And so that's why she tellslike you're chronically unique.
If you continue to think thatyou're the only person, you will
reinforce that idea and you'regoing to stay stuck and so.
(16:04):
But to your point, vulnerability, very easy to say.
In practice it's a little bitdifferent.
Now you help companies withthis.
Like you go in and you've done,you've got your doctorate in
organizational stuff, likeyou've accomplished a ton,
you've helped tons and tons ofpeople, leaders, with this.
Do they, when they call you tothis say hey, dr Alejandra, can
(16:27):
you help us with vulnerability?
Does that happen to you?
No, no it's always.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
I mean I wish, but I mean I don't think I would even
ask for help like that, right, Ithink it's hard for all human
beings, but no, they all.
I mean it's very reactiveinstead of proactive, right,
there's always very we have aproblem, we have a fire.
I think a lot of people spend alot of time at work putting out
fires and it's exhausting.
(16:54):
It's exhausting and it's neverending, right, because the fires
are always going to be there.
But when really things get badis when they start either losing
people or it's always related,some kind of like when they are
money, they are not reaching out, the clients that they want to
(17:14):
reach or something is is thedynamics, are a lot of
complaints, right, but no, theydon't reach out.
For that, I think it'sdifficult and I like.
So I've been working withengineers lately, jesse and I
love engineers.
I never thought I was gonnalove engineers so much because I
(17:34):
have nothing about engineeringin my life.
I'm not an engineer, I marriedone, but I don't have anything.
But I love working with themand I my mission in life is to
be able to help them understandthat these skills of being open,
of connecting, reallyinfluencing others or motivating
others or building good teamsare skills like the skills that
(17:59):
they use to measure windows, forexample, or do whatever
technical work that they have todo.
That there are skills that wecan learn, that we can learn,
and there are ways to learnthose skills and then you can
implement them and you can bebetter at those, and those are
going to help you tremendouslyAt work outside of work
(18:22):
personally, right internally.
But I think what causes me a lotof frustration is that nobody
teaches us these skills.
Nobody does so.
I remember a long time ago whenI was like, oh, my friend was
selected to go to leadershipskills training and it was a big
deal and I'm like, oh cool,what is that?
(18:43):
I mean, this is decades ago,right, and it's like why some
people are selected to go tothis?
Right, why only some peoplewhen there's skills that
everybody needs?
So it pains me when I see a lotof young engineers, young that
are absolutely clueless in howto develop their teams, but not
(19:06):
because they don't want to orthey can't, it's because they
don't know how.
So I want to do that and thatwill require a little bit of
vulnerability, right?
Yeah, I don't use the word alot, but it's needed because you
have to to learn new things.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, thank you, and it's not picking on engineers,
but learn new things.
Thank you, and it's not pickingon engineers, but I get it Like
the folks that I know that havethe engineer mindset.
They place tremendous value ontheir technical expertise and
almost have zero value forinterpersonal expertise,
(19:43):
relationship, communication,conversational because what are
we talking about?
Tell me what we need to do,which is fine, until you have to
lead people, and so and to yourpoint, I think you made this
point, so I want to ask it adifferent way is people are
people, they're always going tobe people, but then we put them
in this work environment and,for some reason, it's like the
(20:07):
work environment is designed tohelp people hate each other.
What do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
That's so funny.
I mean, yeah, it seems likethere are certain situations of
being so close to each otherthat that competitive aspect of
the workplace right that ourcultural values I mean we live
in western societies where wehave very specific gender roles
(20:37):
that we have to follow, somemore than others, but they exist
and all that is like, like yousaid, it puts all the
ingredients in the stove in thatworkplace, right the pot or the
perfect soup or the perfectstorm, whatever.
I think that I once read.
I once they told me to a pointthat it is only in these
(21:01):
interpersonal relationshipswhere we grow as people.
We can learn all the technical.
But the system was created.
I always tell my clients youwere put in the perfect lab for
it, but you were put in theperfect lab to develop what you
have to develop.
Now they put all theingredients you want to call God
(21:26):
, the universe like a lego setand they put all their little
ingredients for you to developyour new skills.
So you have to develop.
They did it, it's there for you.
So I think that the workplaceis a perfect and families also.
I think that we're oh my god,but it's because the system we
were designed to develop throughthose interactions with other
(21:49):
human beings, because if not,there's no growth.
I mean, there is no advancement.
I mean, of course, you canlearn to code beautifully or you
can learn to whatever, but thereal advancement is through
these personal interactions.
Yes, that's what I found out.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I, luckily, I had a boss who told me, jess, you're
pretty good Technically, you'regood foreman, you make money,
get jobs done on time, but ourpeople quit on you and our
clients hate you.
And I said, yeah, you're goingto have to start developing
(22:31):
people.
And so, which was again back tothe structure of business.
Like, we hire people and weassign them specific tasks and
when they execute those tasksreally well, we give them a
raise, we give them a promotion,give them more tasks.
They get good at those.
We give them a raise, we givethem a promotion.
And so the whole time we'rereinforcing their abilities as
(22:55):
an individual contributor and tobe excellent on execution of
things.
And then we say, okay, they gotso good, now we're going to
make them in charge of people.
And because this whole time was,say, three, five, eight years,
whatever it was, I wassuccessful by managing things, I
(23:15):
end up managing people as ifthey're things and there's no
ladder or development of.
Okay, let's start helping youdevelop the skills to, to, to
communicate concisely, to takefeedback, to deliver feedback.
Like that doesn't happen untileverybody's quitting on you.
(23:36):
Am I wrong, or was that just mystory?
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Of course.
Yeah, I mean that's, you'retotally right.
I mean I had a client who thefirst session he sat down and he
said I just told my high schoolage kid, whatever you do in
life, do not manage people.
I mean he was that frustrated.
He was that frustrated becausehe was a civil engineer, super
(24:01):
smart.
I'm sure he coasted throughschool.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
He got a master's degree.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
He advanced because they're very high demand Civil
engineers are in high demand sohe had a very good job and then
he had to manage people in adifferent place and it was a lot
of ingredients that again werecreating that perfect storm.
And he was like I just told mykid whatever you do not manage
people.
And I'm like how can you belike that I mean regardless of
(24:28):
work how can you feel soincapable of dealing with people
?
It's not a good place to beright.
Yes, but a lot of people do.
They promote and hope.
I'm sure you've heard that word.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Promote and hope.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
And let's see how it goes.
And also the Peter Principleright when you go, you advance,
you send and then at some pointthings are going to get
interesting.
I think it takes a lot ofawareness at all levels of the
organization Awareness at high,those people who are like, hey,
what are we going to do when wepromote people?
What plan do we have?
(25:04):
Do we have someone who can help?
I mean, how we're going to dothis.
And then awareness at the otherlevels is like, hey, I'm about
to do this, I need help, to askfor help, we have to do
something for me and my otherpeople and my teams and
everything, but just hoping thatthings are going to happen are
it's going to be hard, becausethose are not innate.
Even I've always said this,even for me consultant on people
(25:28):
skills or whatever I have todevelop my own people skills.
I have to put some practice onthose.
I mean, I have to put my workon those because it's not, again
, automatic, it's not an aid.
Or you can be like my husbandwho said I'm sorry, I'm not
going to manage anyone, so dowhatever you want to do.
(25:49):
He's an engineer, coding andhe's happy and he has never
managed people.
So, but you have to have somekind of awareness to realize,
hey, we're going to, we needsomething for our people and you
also ask, hey, don't leave mealone here, please help me out
in one way or another.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, no, I think that's a great point your
husband recognized.
I am not going to do that andthere's a cost to it.
If you're not willing to dothat, there's a certain level
and cool If you're good withthat, good, we need you to do
the coding.
But if you want to advance,you're going to have to.
(26:26):
You really are going to have tomanage people, and so what can
you do to start building thoseskills?
Now, what have you learnedabout yourself through the work
that you do and watching thepatterns and guiding people and
restructuring?
What popped up that surprisedyou about you?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I love that question because, again, that curiosity
that keeps moving me to go andmove countries and do this and
do that.
Sometimes it's hard to put ittowards yourself right, turn
around and be curious aboutyourself.
And I've yeah, that is not aseasy even I mean for no one, I
(27:00):
think, and me included.
So I've learned that I'm verytenacious, I stick.
I've learned that I'm verytenacious, I stick, I won't quit
, I stick.
But I've also learned that I amnot the expert in a lot of
things.
I mean you have to be humble,you have to be open, to continue
(27:24):
learning.
I think it's related, but Ithink I've learned that and I
also have to learn how to bevulnerable.
Let's be honest about that.
It's something about theeducation and the.
I mean I have a PhD and allthat and I'm like that's not not
that it's not enough, but it'slike that doesn't tell the whole
story.
You have to continue how to bevulnerable and ask for help and
(27:49):
reach out and more.
When you think that you havereached out, you reach out more
and try, you try more.
And when you think that youhave, whatever is it?
I think that has been one of mybig learnings.
That is a work in progress,it's never ending and it's part
of being human.
So, but it's hard, it's hard.
(28:10):
There are risks of beingvulnerable, especially for a
woman, and so there are a lot oflatinas or the little risks,
but I've learned to that.
Yeah, I have to also put alittle bit of walk the talk a
little bit yeah oh, yeah,definitely yeah, well, I love it
, it's, it's that right.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
It's sure I can help.
Oh, and there's room here too.
There's some work I need to dohere.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
When I moved here, like I said, I mean I knew
everything but it was a culturalshock.
And then I got my therapist.
Of course I was working for 10years and then we parted ways
and then I'm seeing another one.
But it's like going to the gym.
I mean my muscles are not goingto stay muscle strong if I
don't go to the gym.
But we have such a hard timetalking about those things and I
(28:57):
think it's getting better.
I think a little bit better,but it's hard to understand that
.
It's just part of being healthyand sometimes it's easier said
than done.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Definitely Okay.
Now you've mentioned the wordcultural a few times and I want
to come back and talk aboutcultural competence.
But before that, like back whenyou were in Monterrey, 15, 10,
12 years old, did you know?
Oh, this is what I want to do.
I'm going to have my doctoratedegree, I'm going to be in
Austin, I'm going to beconsulting and helping with
(29:29):
people.
Was it that easy?
Speaker 1 (29:32):
No, not at all.
I mean, I had really no ideawhat I was thinking when I was
10 or 12 or 15, what I wanted todo.
I'm thinking, but I, I wentinto education after, after
college, I went to education andI realized that I said I
learning, I like teaching, Ithink I like that ecosystem of
learning, and so definitely thatwas part of me.
(29:56):
But and then at some point Ireally wanted, I was like at
this time I have to go, I haveto go.
I was.
One thing that is funny and Iwant to put it here for everyone
to know, is that I was stillliving at home because in Mexico
it's very common to live withyour parents for longer than
just and I went to college in myhometown, so I was still there.
So it was really a time to moveRight and and I said, okay,
(30:19):
let's just go.
But I had no idea, really hadno idea.
Came to UT and I was going toapply to another master's but
the admissions officer said, oh,you already have a master's,
and she took out the applicationand she put the application for
the PhD and I mean and I'm like, why not?
(30:40):
And I have to say that, ofcourse, definitely, coming here
to this country and UT changedme completely.
I'm a whole different person.
You cannot go through a PhDprogram and not change
completely, and there's still alot of things to change and fix
right, but it definitely changed.
(31:00):
And then that's when I realizedthat there was a lot of work to
do with the Latino community inthis country.
So in one way or another, I'vealways been helping the Latino
community, and that's first ineducation.
I work with school districtsacross the state.
I work with a lot of educationagencies, and then I moved into.
(31:21):
I wanted to see okay, well,let's see how the Latino
community is doing in corporateAmerica, so let's go there.
So I work there, always tryingto support not always, but big
time of my work has been towardsthe Latino community, and
that's the kind of one of thethings that brought me into
construction.
Be honest, I mean, it was aboutthe Latino community.
(31:42):
I work with everyone, but ofcourse, the Latino community is
very important to me and that'sone of the reasons that I'm
doing what I'm doing.
Definitely I want to supportthe Latino worker, construction
workers and employees.
I think they are, as we allknow, a big part of the
construction industry and I wantthem to keep racing and keep
(32:04):
moving into higher positions ofvisibility, and that's one of
the reasons that I'm doing alsoall this work, but no plans for
that absolutely no good, becauseso far no one said well, I take
that back, I make it shapiro.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
She's the one person man, there may be a couple other
people I know, but she's theone person I've interviewed who
said oh yeah, I knew I was goingto be a lawyer when I was a
teenager.
I was going to be a lawyer, andshe's a dang lawyer now.
She probably didn't know thatshe was going to be starting her
own little business andmanaging conferences and stuff.
(32:41):
But I think for the L&M familymembers out there, it's not a
straight line.
And I think one thing youtouched on that I think is super
, super important is, yes, whichand I appreciate greatly you do
have a PhD from the Universityof Texas in Austin and master's
from Monterrey.
I mean, you're extremelyaccomplished and credentialed
(33:03):
and I'm just a really goodlooking plumber and the way you
make me feel human and accepted,right.
So there's these insecurities ofI don't have the credentials, I
don't have the certifications,but we can still have this
amazing conversation becausewe're human beings, and so I
want to put that.
The reason I'm saying that isso that the listeners out there
(33:26):
I understand how scary andintimidating it can be to not
have the certifications andcredentials and whatever, and
sure if you want to go get them.
But that doesn't make you anymore, any less human, and you
kind of touched on that earlierwhen you were talking about what
you learned about.
Yes, you can have the degreesand the certifications and all
the things, and you're stillhuman.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
You're learning.
I still have flaws many of themand I still catch myself like,
oh, did you just do that?
I mean, okay, where did thatcome from?
I mean humans, we're totallyhumans, right?
Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Oh, my God, I love that.
Now I was looking at yourLinkedIn bio and there was
something in there aboutcultural competence and I don't
know enough about it, exceptthat I'm like there's something
valuable there.
So what is cultural competenceLike?
How can our people, thelisteners, think about that so
(34:23):
that they can better serve thepeople in their, in their
surrounding?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Oh, I love cultural companies.
I love that topic, of course,and that's one of my, that's why
it's one of my services, but soI work, maybe not as much as I
want, but I do it in one way oranother.
Always add some of those,because is that is when I
support people, learn.
support people to learn how towork better across cultures
(34:48):
because, we, and then, forexample, the Latino culture, and
you have many other cultures,people that have teams in India,
right, and they have teams inKorea.
Now, we have a lot oforganizations that have teams
all over the world right, it'shappening.
So when we are faced withdifference, when we are faced
with cultural differences,there's always going to be like
(35:12):
a break right, either consciousor unconsciously.
This is different and we haveall the alert signs.
This is different.
I don't understand what's goingon here and I sometimes I joke
that I live in a world of I justdon't get it.
I just don't get it.
Who knows they're like that orlike this?
Who knows, it's weird, it'sdifferent.
(35:32):
So I help them develop thoseskills that make them good at
working across cultures.
So develop their culturalcompetence, because there's
always going to be somedifferences.
There are differences becausewe have different personality
right, they're a very individuallevel, but there are also
differences that are therebecause of different cultures.
(35:55):
So I try to support theunderstanding of these
differences so we can workbetter together.
Now I have my.
That I find fascinatingregarding the construction
company is that sometimes thiscultural difference can affect I
mean, it affects everything theway we communicate, the way we
(36:18):
build trust.
But it can also affect safety,because there's a lot of
articles and I'm a total.
I go to Google Scholar once aday.
I'm sorry, but I'm talkingabout articles and there's a lot
of research that talks abouthow safety might be impacted by
these cultural differences.
For example, the Latinoconstruction worker might say
(36:41):
since one of our Latino culturalvalues is familismo and we are
very community-centered andfamily-centered, we keep these
groups right.
But, sometimes, if the primo, ifthe cousin is not doing what
the supervisor said, I'm goingto follow what the cousin is
doing, not what the supervisoris telling me to do.
(37:04):
The cousin is part of my group,yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Part of my group.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
So Part of my group.
So that can be one way.
And the supervisor who's?
No, I don't understand, he'sweird, it's another culture.
I'm going to be a little bitmore so that might be one way
where cultural violence mightaffect safety, for example.
So then it gets in the way.
So I think it's essential for usto understand how we work
(37:31):
across cultures.
We need to know that we'regoing to have ways of seeing the
world that are based on ourculture.
That might be different and youhave to.
I always say you have to stopyour cultural cruise control
Driving and we have our ownviews, views and we just go
(37:52):
through life.
We don't think about thatbecause of course, that's the
way that we've been functioningsince we were babies.
But I always say you have tostop your cultural cruise
control.
Stop it because and think, hey,can this be seen from
differently, from anotherperspective?
Can this be due to a differentcultural aspect?
(38:13):
Possibly this was because ofsomething that I had not
considered, but only when youstop that cultural cruise
control right, you stop and youask those questions, you become
respectfully curious.
I always talk about that Veryrespectful, and you ask and you
get to know other cultures andways of being and doing.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So that's why, oh, you just stirred the pot so
cultural.
Here's one thing, folks, if youdidn't catch this Ellen and
family member, the way you break, or the medicine for cultural
cruise control is to berespectfully curious.
Now, when I hear respectfullyI'm sorry cultural cruise
(38:58):
control, I want to share a storybecause I know I'm not the only
one that's had this problem.
And I want to know is that anexample of cultural cruise
control?
Now, when I was brought up, yourespect your elders.
Right To this day, when I'mtalking to an elder and they
call my name, I say Monday, Idon't even.
(39:20):
It's just a natural thing,right, hey, chewy, just Monday.
I know like I'm not going tosay what, because then I'm going
to get slapped, amen.
And so my upbringing was respectyour elders, don't challenge
your elders, don't talk back toyour elders, respect your elders
, which served me very well whenI was a student and a kid.
(39:42):
But then I got into theprofessional space and it didn't
serve me very well.
Like, only to like.
When I was ready, like I needmore challenge, I want to grow
and get promoted, and stilldidn't challenge my elders or
the authority.
It was a problem.
Because why, Like?
You're never saying anything,you just agree.
You're not bringing anything tothe table and I'm like y'all
(40:04):
are.
You're the elders, you're thebosses.
Is that an example of culturalcruise control?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Exactly we can talk.
I mean, let me go and get morecoffee because we can talk hours
and hours about this.
Exactly, my culture, yourculture, control was just going
in one way.
This is the only way, this is away that I know how to function
, how to work, how to do thisone.
But at some point the contextwas like and then you stop.
But at some point the contextwas like and then you stop.
(40:30):
I have to turn off this cruisecontrol and learn and adapt and
learn and see what I need to do.
And I think I have the sameexact example At UT Dr Jo Worthy
.
That was one of my advisors.
Dr Worthy asked me to call herJo by her first name, jesse.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Was that?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
hard.
She was a professor, my advisor, and I was like I can't.
Meanwhile, shauna and I alwaysset an example.
And Shauna was an Anglo girl.
A friend of mine was still intouch.
Shauna had been calling Josince day number one of the
program.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
And then I couldn't even call Dr Worthy Joe until
for six months.
I didn't call her anything, Iwas just like hi how are you?
Fine, and then what happened?
I'm like, uh-uh, you have to,yeah you have to right.
So that is that kind of okay.
But the respectful curiositythat I talk is that maybe from
(41:33):
other people your supervisorsand your example could have
stopped their own culturalcruise control and say what's
going on here?
There must be something elsegoing on here.
Yeah, that is that's why, jesse, that case is behaving in this
way.
So what's going on here?
(41:53):
So they could also have stoppedtheir culture control and said
hey, jesse, tell us more aboutyour culture.
Who are you, what do you think,what do you appreciate, what do
you value?
I mean those conversations ofconnecting you don't have to
become best friends witheveryone at work, but those
connections is like Tell me morein a very respectful way,
(42:15):
that's all I'll say.
Respectful curiosity Tell memore about how you see life, how
you see war, how do you seeyour advancement, what are you
thinking?
I mean, tell me about how youexperience world and the job as
a Latino man in this country, orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Beautiful point.
I did have somebody who hadthat cure, that respectful
curiosity, and this was now I'mlike at this point in my career,
I have regional responsibility,I'm traveling around the
country and it was the firstmeeting that he and I were in
and I have a like I've gottenover the challenging authority,
like I'm fine with it at thispoint, and but I didn't say
(42:51):
anything.
And we it was like a four hourworkshop strategy check-in,
whatever it was, and I didn'tsay a whole lot.
And so after the meeting hesaid hey, jess, I asked you some
question.
I'm not, I really am just beingcurious.
I'm not judging you.
I was like, yeah, don't like,what's your problem?
He said well, you wereextremely quiet, you didn't say
(43:13):
a lot.
You asked questions but youdidn't say a lot.
Is it because you don't thinkit's appropriate for you to
speak in the room?
And I say thank you for askingme that question, cause now I
know that you're a he's a realone.
Right, he gets it.
So thank you for answeringasking me that question.
I said no, I said I have adopteda way, a mode of operation,
(43:37):
where I am not going to saysomething if it's redundant, if
somebody already said thethought that I had.
I don't need to change or sayit a different way.
I don't need to be seen likeI'm here, and so what that means
is I will only speak when Icare about something deeply and
it hasn't been said.
(43:57):
He's oh.
I was like, yeah, he's okay.
I said let me guess you you'veseen other guys like me, with a
beautiful tan, like me, thatdon't speak up, and it's because
they're afraid they're notsupposed to.
He's like how'd you know?
I said cause I used to be thatway.
Right, we're all like that.
Right, I get it, I don't havethat problem anymore.
I'm just not going to repeatsomething that's already been
(44:18):
said.
I want to contribute value, andif I can't contribute value,
then let's at least keep itgoing.
We don't need to be saying thesame thing a million times, and
so I guess maybe the takeawayfor our listener is they're out
there, so find them.
And when I say they, theamazing leaders that have this
cultural awareness and therespectful curiosity, they are
(44:41):
there.
You just got to find them.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
And also do your own cultural understanding of who
you are, culturally speaking,like when I couldn't say, when I
couldn't call Joe Joe formonths, it was not because I was
defective, it was not because Ihad a problem, it was not
because I was not that smart, itwas just because my culture had
(45:05):
taught me differently.
Yeah, I understood that.
I said that's one of my we callthem cultural scripts that
respect the cultural script.
When I understood that and so Ican just flip the script and I
am going to learn how to adapt,how to use my flexibility as a
Latina and use it in the waythat it has to be used.
(45:27):
There's a lot of anxiety aboutchanging your behavior and this
and that, but I think that weare all adapting, we're all
flexible, we have to, and it'simportant and it's growth.
When we adapt and learn andchange.
It's beautiful without beinghard on ourselves.
In your own cultural awareness.
(45:49):
Who are you culturally and howyou act?
When you can name it, you can,tame it, you can say hi, it's
not that it's.
I'm just being respectfulbecause I was taught to do that.
Okay, that's it Not a big deal?
Then you can just change itwhen needed and according to the
circumstances, and then we'regoing to be fine.
(46:10):
But if you are unaware, whenyou cannot name it, then you
cannot do anything about that.
You cannot tame it.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Yes, no.
I think what I love the most isthe awareness, and for me, I've
learned that if I just slowdown a little bit, my awareness
will spike.
But if I'm running 100 miles anhour all the time, guess what's
not happening.
I am not aware of myself at all.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
And we go back to the cruise control right, as useful
as it is, stop it every once ina while, and you can.
I mean, I talk about culturalcruise control, but we can talk
about anything, becausesometimes we're just doing
putting out fires left and rightwithout stopping, without hey,
what's going on, withoutengaging in reflective practice,
(46:58):
what information am I getting,and what is that information
telling me about?
Things might have to be donedifferently, but that craziness
of life is we have to stopsometimes, right?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yes, 100% Now you.
So you and I connected you.
I know you connected with mysister, jennifer Lacey,
connected with Megan.
You've traveled, you've come infrom another country.
I have a friend, her name'sAnessa.
I haven't talked to her inyears.
Nessa and Estella I met them insalsa class.
Oh cool, oh yeah, it wasamazing.
(47:34):
It's a long time ago and theyjust traveled all over the place
, like they just met people.
I was like, wow, y'all are.
I want to be like y'all when Igrow up.
And now I'm a little more likethat.
You have decided tointentionally.
It's what it looks like to me.
It looks like you said you knowwhat I want to connect with
these people in this space andI'm going to go do it and you're
(47:56):
doing it now.
That is terrifying for themajority of people in general.
And then if I zoom in for womenin general, and then if I zoom
in for Latinas, it's like moreand more profound that you're
doing this.
And so what I think might behelpful for folks is how did you
(48:20):
get, how do you think aboutwhat you're doing in those terms
, like you're not necessarilythe work that you do, your
expertise, but just puttingyourself out there to connect
with people.
How do you do that?
How do you get the courage todo that?
Speaker 1 (48:36):
It's funny, right, because it doesn't seem
courageous when I do it, butwhen I think about it I'm like,
oh, and when I think, when I gointo my reflective practice,
right, and I think about me andmy life, I was an extremely shy
little girl.
I was a shy little girl.
So this is what happens, and Ihope people listen to this,
(48:58):
especially the younger Age.
Years of experience is amazingbecause it gives a different
perspective, right, differentway of like hey, you know what?
Nothing happened Suddenly.
Only good things happen.
So I always want to condensetime for others.
If it took me 10 years for meand I wanted to take it in three
(49:18):
, right.
So that's a lot of things thatI do, but what makes me do it is
that I have definitely age hasgiven me wisdom to understand
that there are very few thingsthat are permanent and that,
generally speaking, people aredoing their best and that they
(49:40):
are going to help you.
If they don't help you, it'sbecause at that time they can't,
or they are too busy or tooengaged in something else, or
whatever.
It's not.
I've learned not to take itpersonally.
I've learned that they aredoing really their best, and a
lot has to do with my coachingschool.
Of course, coaching changes youas well, but I think that it
(50:04):
just I have this feeling thatnothing bad is going to happen,
it's going to work out and thatif I go out and connect with
people, even if it's oneconversation, I'm going to gain
something out of that.
Nothing is there to lose,nothing is going to gain
something out of that.
Sure, nothing is there to lose.
Nothing is going to.
No one is going.
What is the worst that canhappen?
(50:25):
So I think that keeps me movingand I want other people to
start thinking and hearing theseideas so they can start doing
that extra thing, taking thatextra risk, taking that, and do
it Really.
There are very few things thatare permanent and when we're
being authentic and where we areconnecting, we're just
connecting.
(50:45):
Hey, I'm knocking the door.
Are you going to open the door?
Fine, if not, okay, I'll tryagain another day, but it is.
I understand sometimes we havea lot of fears of rejection, but
once you start doing it, youdevelop the habit and you're
like hey, you know what I thinkalso, you change your attitude.
Also, it's like nothing, butit's going to happen.
They might say no, but if yousay no, okay, what next?
(51:08):
I mean Next exactly?
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.
I did a very good jobexplaining, but I think it's
this combination of like why notwhat's?
the best that can happen.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah, no, I think you did do a great job because it
is a mindset, I mean the twothings that I, the little simple
frameworks that I use for thiskind of situation, because
people say, like my mom, she's,like you're crazy, like the
things that you do and thethings that you say.
You put it all out there, likeyeah, you know it'll be fine.
(51:46):
So two things is this onefailure is not fatal.
If I fail, I ain't going to die.
I'll be like, I'm going tolearn from it.
The other thing is I get tochoose between rejection or
regret.
I will take rejection all day,every day, because regretting
always come for me, always comefrom not taking the step or
making the ask.
Rejection next.
(52:07):
Who do I talk to next?
You don't like me?
Good, who's next?
Speaker 1 (52:09):
Yeah, it's a gradual process because, not because I
reach out to you and to Colleenand to Megan and to Jennifer I
mean, I reach out to Jen whatI'm like that day, I think I'm
going to be in Dallas tomorrow,can I see you?
Things like that and so I'mgoing up in that.
Let's do it.
Let's do it Connect.
And there's some other areaswhere I'm like, no, I don't.
(52:31):
Yeah, there's not a straightline and not everything moves at
the same rhythm.
Don't feel like, hey, but Ican't talk to Jennifer Lacey out
of the blue, but oh my God, Icannot do a webinar, for example
, right?
So don't expect everything tomove at the same rhythm, in the
same direction.
(52:52):
So we have to understand thatthere's two steps ahead and
maybe one step to the side, onestep behind, and so all these
things, and I want especiallythese young people to understand
that.
So don't be scared.
If there are some areas when wedon't feel because I feel them
as well right, but I thinkthere's a lot more to lose if
(53:15):
not doing it than in doing.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yes, yes, yeah.
Just give it a shot.
You'll get better on the nextone.
And I think you made a superimportant point.
It's not all things move at thesame rate.
It's okay to be great at onething and not great at the other
thing.
It's okay to be sprinting onone thing and then still
thinking about the other.
Give yourself some grace, it'sgoing to be okay.
So if people want to work withyou, where do we send them, dr
(53:43):
Alejandra?
Speaker 1 (53:45):
We send them to.
I spend a lot of time onLinkedIn and I have my website.
So one of the my yeah, mywebsite, and we can put it there
later.
So, but LinkedIn and my websiteare my two, the two places
where they can find me.
I'm there and I always respondto people.
I always respond to people.
(54:06):
I have people like, hey, I'mgoing to be there, I need to
talk to you.
I haven't seen you in threeyears.
Text me.
Here's my number, text me andI'm like come on, but I'm always
there I love to work with.
I'm very interested inconstruction.
Again, it's something that isalso kind of a newish side for
me.
I'm very interested, I love towork with people who work in
(54:30):
real projects, I think.
So that's the way I see it.
So I'm open for any kind ofconversation.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
Please reach out Good , good, okay.
So we'll make sure we have thatinformation in the show notes.
Y'all need to reach out to DrAlejandra For the very least to
say I know a doctor, I have adoctor in my team.
That's what I'm doing For theGrand Slam final question Okay.
Slam, final question, okay.
(55:03):
So I love, totally appreciate,like your adventurous spirit,
the cultures and careers andindustries that you've learned
to adapt into quickly, and theconnections that you've made
with people in terms of helpingthem understand that they're not
defective.
And so the little that I knowabout you suggest to me that
what you're going to answer,what your answer is going to be,
is going to be pretty damnprofound.
(55:24):
And so here's the question whatis the promise you are intended
to be?
Speaker 1 (55:31):
I want to.
The promise that I'm intendedto be is to help more and more
people develop those peopleskills that we need in this
world, Because if not, if wedon't have them, it's a very
hard world to live in.
So I want to contribute to that.
There's a little bit of thingabout me that I was never taught
(55:55):
directly.
I had to learn on my own that Iwas never taught directly, had
to learn on my own.
And if I can help other peoplelearn those so they can have
better interactions in theworkplace and there's a lot of
success and a lot ofsatisfaction that they're going
to feel.
So if I can contribute to that,that would be very cool.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
Oh, my goodness.
So you're already doing it,you're just going to do more of
it.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
I'm doing more.
Oh, there is a lot of time, alot of things that I have to do,
so still, yes, there's a lotabout also working across
countries, like really workacross countries, be able to go
and do some of this in Mexico,and so that's also another big
thing that I want to keep inmind.
But, yeah, definitely, and Ithink the promise I mean the
more I think about that as I'mtalking, it's like just
(56:38):
enlighten people, give them theknowledge, the how, help them
see.
It's very frustrating when youkind of understand there's
something there but you cannotsee Something.
I cannot see, like I cannotreally get it.
What is it?
It's not working, something isnot right and there's a lot of
heaviness in that, and I want toremove that heaviness so they
(56:58):
can understand hey, we can dothis, there's skills that I can
learn.
Speaker 2 (57:03):
Oh, I love that.
Oh my, you're a guide, a lightenabling people, supporting
people, catapulting people intoa higher quality of life Amazing
.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
Did you have fun?
I had a great time.
I had a great time, I had agreat time and I love chatting
and talking to people.
So thank you, jesse, for havingme, and it's been a pleasure to
get to know you better and Ilearned a lot from you.
A lot from you and thank youfor opening your spaces for me.
It's been a pleasure, thank you.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yes, thank you for sticking it out all the way to
the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on and, in
appreciation for the gift oftime that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book Becoming the
Promise You're Intended to Be.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
(58:02):
There's a link in there.
You just click that and you candownload the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate yousharing.
That increases the likelihoodthat it's going to help one more
person.
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
(58:23):
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be Be kind to
yourself, be cool, and we'lltalk at you next time.
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