October 30, 2025 • 57 mins
Jesse interviews Melissa Stecher, founder of Hopeful Simplicity, discussing her 3S method designed to help busy moms declutter and organize their spaces for a more peaceful lifestyle. Melissa explains the importance of aligning organizational styles with personal and family needs, the emotional aspect of letting go of clutter, and the benefits of a supportive community. They explore the balance between visual and non-visual organizing, macro and micro systems, and the impact of these methods on family dynamics and personal well-being.
00:00 Introduction to Overwhelmed Lifestyles
00:30 Meet Melissa Stecher: Founder of Hopeful Simplicity
01:52 The Three S Method Explained
03:50 The Importance of Sustainable Organization
07:47 From Cleaning Products to Organizing Business
10:05 Adapting to Lifestyle Changes
19:40 Community and One-on-One Coaching
27:53 Impact of Organization on Personal Relationships
28:54 Understanding Personal Organization Styles
30:13 Teaching Organization to Children
31:20 The Obsession with Organization
33:32 Adapting Business to Organizational Needs
36:14 Feeling and Frameworks in Organization
45:11 Simplifying and Decluttering
51:32 The Promise of Better Organization
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
If you want your lifestyle to be overwhelmed,
resentful, pissed off, angry,because you have to follow the
kids around and put their toysaway, or you have to follow your
partner away and put thefreaking shoes where they go, or
you have to be the problemsolver, great.
That's your choice.
If you want your lifestyle tolook a little calmer, a little
(00:20):
hopeful, yeah, yeah, then it'san on-board home team.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
What is going on, LM family?
I'm like super excited because Iget to interview a super awesome
friend of mine that man, weconnected way back when like
Clubhouse was a thing.
She is the founder of HopefulSimplicity.
She helps busy women organizetheir spaces and makes
(00:52):
organization feel doable withher 3S method, which of course
we're going to learn a littlebit about this 3S method.
My friend's name is MelissaStetcher, who is the coolest
person that I get to hang outwith on the regular.
And I'm sure you're going tofall in love with her.
But before we get to learn moreabout that, if this is your
(01:14):
first time here, you'relistening to the Learnins and
Missteps podcast, where amazingpeople just like you tell us how
they are sharing their gifts andtalents to leave this world
better than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant,and we about to get to know Miss
Melissa.
(01:35):
Miss Melissa, how are you doing,my sister?
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
We did it.
We're here.
I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
We too, we too, especially.
We got time zones crossed up andwe rescheduling, but the stars
have aligned, and here we are.
So the world wants to know,Melissa.
What is this 3S method?
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
It is the method I created for okay.
So it's the method I createdbecause busy moms like me.
I can walk into a room and belike, sure, I'm gonna declutter.
That's it.
But the 3S method tells youexactly what to do.
(02:21):
So it's a method that simplifiesthe decluttering process, it
simplifies the organizingprocess, but it hones into that
really key factor of sustainingan organized life.
And I think too often we're it'soverwhelming.
It's too much.
Moms have decision fatigue andbrain, like I don't even know
(02:43):
90% of the time.
So I needed something to tell meexactly what to do.
I don't want to make anotherdecision, I don't want to have
to figure it out.
And if I'm gonna pull out myphone to figure it out, I'd much
rather watch people hurtthemselves or people fall
downstairs or cute puppies.
Yeah, and that's what the 3Smethod is.
(03:05):
It's an organizing solutionsystem method for busy moms to
make it simplified.
SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
Okay, so here's what I think I'm hearing because I
don't have a problem withdisorganized space at all.
But what I'm hearing is somepeople walk into a space and
it's just ah, it's notorganized.
And so then the question orangst and irritation and anxiety
starts building because it'slike, where do I start?
(03:35):
And the 3S method, there'slevels or layers in terms of how
to start and then the next step,and then how to keep things
organized because that's theissue, right?
Is nothing ever just staysorganized.
Am I reading it right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Yeah, the sustainability part.
So the 3S method, it's simplify,sustain.
SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
3D F in the method, and the sustainable part, it
takes that delusion that we haveof ourselves as organizing as
one size fits all, but also,well, I got organized, it'll
stay that way.
But hi, we're living real lives,things are always coming in,
things are always going out,we're going through phases and
seasons of existence, so we needto just stop pretending once we
(04:20):
get it done, it'll be donebecause it's just not reality.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Okay, so what keeps us from just leaving it as it
is?
Well, have to be organized.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Hang on, I'm channeling my appropriate
wording for this because momsare the central hubs of most
homes, right?
I'm not belittling dads, I'm notsaying men don't do that, I'm
whatever.
But when do I have anappointment?
Do is my uniform clean?
Have you seen my keys?
Do we pack the lunches?
Who's the kid's teacher?
No.
(04:56):
And so if we are stressed out byall the decisions we're already
making, and then we have cluttersitting around, that's a layer
of visual overwhelm that wealready don't know.
So visual clutter leads tomental clutter.
We don't have room for any morecrap in our heads.
So if the house is organized, ifthe house is calm, it's one
(05:20):
thing taken away out of ouroverload, out of our overwhelm,
and then maybe hopefully onestep closer to a little less
stressed and a little lessresentful and a lot less angry.
SPEAKER_01 (05:32):
Okay, I like that.
I can get on board with that.
So, this method is thissomething that you go hiking in
the Himalayas and find ancienttranscript of the 3S method, or
is how did you come across thisway of organizing and sustaining
the organization, organizedspace?
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
That would be dope, wouldn't it?
Like long as where the Moanas ofthe next generation are going
into some cave, bang on a boatthing, and then 3S method just
happens to chime out.
That would be so dope.
I won't be here for it, butthat's okay.
So it I think part of it stemmedfrom it's really broken down, I
(06:14):
think, is chapter five of thefirst book as the why.
Why do you have to declutter?
Okay, but why do you have toknow what to declutter?
Okay, but why do you have toorganize?
Okay, but what do you organize?
And I'm like, I don't, I don'tknow.
And then I read this really neatbook by my friend Jesse.
I don't have my plumber'sedition anymore, but I do have a
newer edition, and he talksabout methods and breaks it down
(06:35):
and gives me things to step in.
So honing the 5S thing, I thinkit's 5S.
Yeah, and then I need somethingsimplified like that.
What would make sense to me?
Ah, assuming the world startsand stops just like I think.
All right.
So I need clarity, and I willask the questions until I am
(06:56):
blue and purple on the face.
I will.
SPEAKER_02 (06:58):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Because I need to understand.
And if I don't understand, thatmeans maybe someone else doesn't
understand.
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
That's kind of how that came about is why?
Okay, but why?
Okay, but why?
Okay, but more.
And then I got it as simplifiedas I could get it simplified.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Yes.
Okay, and so now you have so yougot the 3S method, you're
helping busy women, moms, likewomen, all of the above,
organize their spaces.
You have hopeful simplicity, youhave a community.
Like, was this your vision as ayoung lady when you were roller?
I want to help people organize.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
No, no, my vision was I was going to do Disney
voiceovers and sing a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Oh, okay.
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
And here we are.
So it actually, so this cameabout even before Hopeful
Simplicity did.
I rebranded when organizing kindof took over the business.
It started with cleaningproducts and homemade products,
and I need to not have to holdmy breath when cleaning that
(08:11):
kind of manifested and shiftedand rebranded into an organizing
business because I came to therealization that cleaning was
just part of it.
That's just the last part andthe minor detail of it.
That's over the decade, it kindof became this, it's an
organizing business.
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:30):
It was never a childhood thing.
And I was, I mean, I was one ofthose kids that had a path from
the door to the bed.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
Yes, me too.
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
Yeah, I am still some of those sometimes like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
So okay, so you mentioned that like the business
started off.
I think there's an importantpoint here because I know we've
got a lot of LM family membersout there that are like side
hustling or trying to launch anidea.
So it started off with like itsounded like household cleaning
products, homemade hypercleaning methods, and then it
(09:10):
turned into what is now Grismethod and organization.
So here's the question (09:14):
how hard was it for you to like let go of
what you originally thought itneeded to be and transition to
what it is now?
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
It was more emotional than I thought it
would be.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
Because I had products and shops here locally.
I did fairs and festivals andwinter markets and things like
that.
Now, the introvert in me waslike, Woo, stay home.
But the business part of me isbut I can help people and I'm I
can talk to people and I can,and then you know, a pandemic
(09:52):
hit, and I'm like, that's gone.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
That's done.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
Forget that.
And so that I think the pandemicpersonally helped me release it
by force instead of have to.
And then a friend came to visitbefore social distancing, and I
happen to be living withsomebody, and we had a couple
kids staying with us, and wewere meal planning and meal
prepping, and we were doing ittogether.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
We want to do the LM family member shout out, and
this one goes out to Mr.
Clyde.
Mr.
Clyde sent this, he says, I'mjuggling construction work,
coaching, and family, and thishelped me calm the chaos in my
head.
And what's he talking about?
He's talking about theself-first time mastery
(10:40):
workshop.
So, first, Clyde, thank you forlike taking the time to sign up
and then coming to the sessionand contributing.
And I'm super happy that itcontributed to you in a big way.
And folks, for the rest of youout there that are listening, if
you don't know, I gotta tellyou, I love attention, I love
knowing that you're out there.
So send me a comment, leave areview, do the stars, all of the
(11:02):
things, because it gives me anopportunity to shout you out
again in the future.
unknown (11:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
I'm kind of a lot, right?
Like, I'm like, I'm not doingthis, or nobody's eating.
Like, we're doing this, or Idon't care.
And she's she asked me later,she's like, but how did you do
that?
I'm like, how did I how did I dowhat she's you guys
communicated?
He looked at the list, youlooked at the list, you looked
in the pantry, he looked in thefridge, you made it all work in
(11:31):
this planner for the week.
How did you do that?
And then I was just like, Oh,this is beyond products, this is
a lifestyle choice, this is ahome management option, this is
beyond who runs the vacuum.
And that really opened up myeyes to rebrand in a way and
(11:52):
reformat the business to betterserve what really needs to
happen.
You can go to the supermarketand buy cleaning product, it may
or may not make you sneeze, youmay or may not like the smell,
but until you can brace alifestyle that actually fits,
yeah, that's the difference.
SPEAKER_01 (12:10):
So, and you're saying lifestyle, what I'm
hearing when you say a lifestylethat fits, what I'm hearing is
like a method or a thinkingmental models that help do the
organization as a singularindividual or as with roommates,
with a husband, with kids, likeall of the above.
(12:31):
Is that what I'm hearing?
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
It's so when I say lifestyle, I mean what do you
want the style of your life tobe?
If you share a house, people aregonna be in it.
Yes, it is what it is.
So if you want your lifestyle tobe overwhelmed, resentful,
pissed off, angry, because youhave to follow the kids around
and put their toys away, or youhave to follow your partner away
(12:53):
and put the freaking shoes wherethey go, or you have to be the
problem solver, great, that'syour choice.
If you want your lifestyle tolook a little calmer, a little
hopeful, yeah, yeah, then it'san onboard home team, home
office even situation becauseyou don't want to carry that to
(13:13):
the office, you don't want toget home from the office and be
like, no, I'm not going inthere.
SPEAKER_02 (13:18):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
So that's what I mean by lifestyle.
It's no different than ourfamily's gonna eat healthier, so
we're going to cook meals thatwe all like, we're all gonna do
this.
It's no different, it's just anew way of thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Okay, now in the line of style lifestyle, I've
seen some of your posts on theInstagram and on the LinkedIn
because you're active.
And I remember seeing some postsabout organizational styles.
What is that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
That is knowing you.
You, you're selfish, you loveyou.
Who doesn't?
I do.
It's knowing what works best foryou.
So there's four stylesgenerally, and you'll hear it
across different organizingpeople, right?
Pick the one that fits yourflavor, but it's knowing visual,
non-visual.
My office setup, I love thesethings, so they're visually out.
(14:10):
The things I don't love arenon-visually set up.
You know what you don't see?
You don't see a whole bunch ofpaper, you don't see a whole
bunch of notebooks, you don'tsee all my office supplies, all
my files.
All of those are non-visualsetups.
Same with macro and micro.
I live with a 17-year-old boy.
There is no way in 40 flippinguniverse am I going to get him
(14:34):
to open a container, even if ittakes the lid off, put something
in it, and put the lid back.
It's never going to happen.
I know this because it is hisorganizing style.
If it's not put away hard andfast, it's not getting put away
like mom wants it.
So the spaces we share, theliving room, the kitchen, the
(14:57):
bathroom are very set up forone-step put away, which is a
macro organizing system.
My office, my sock drawer, mycloset, set up how I need it to
be a very micro system, which isa one-step finding thing.
If I have to look for it, digfor it, or search for it, I am
pissed off.
About to be stressed out by thetime I've even find the shirt I
(15:19):
want to wear in the morning.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
Yes, I feel that in all kinds of ways.
Because I've similarly like Iknow where I put things.
I exam, when I go visit my mom,sometimes I typically leave my
keys in my pocket.
But sometimes I'll take them outto unlock the door or whatever.
And if they're not in my pocket,it's all shit.
That's where they go.
(15:40):
Or when I'm home, I put them onthe thing.
I live alone, so nobody moves mystuff.
But I've lived with otherpeople, and when they move
things from where I put them,like that is not okay.
That is a problem.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
But it's also important to know what's going
to work for the space peopleyou're sharing things with,
right?
I know I can have the bestsystem in place, but if it's not
gonna work for him, it's not theright system, right?
So if it's a shared space, allthe movies and DVDs and video
games could be colorcoordinated, organized by how
(16:18):
you play it, who plays it, allthe things.
It's never gonna put back bythat.
So I have to set it up for theleast argumentative situation.
So if you're organizing withmore than one person, we always
lean for visual organizing.
unknown (16:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
So the pantry door might be solid, but you're gonna
open the pantry door, all theclear containers are inside, so
you can see exactly what's inthere when you need it, because
it's easier for somebody to seewhere it goes instead of find
where it goes because it's notgonna happen.
And it's the same for macroversus micro.
It's easier to take steps awayfrom me and my want to take a
(16:55):
lid off, and there's this insidethe this where I can just drop
stuff, done, right?
Put away.
He can he, I'm not saying hecan't, but I'm saying he's less
likely to succeed if I add stepsto his process.
unknown (17:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
Got it.
Okay, so I'm curious, like thismicro and macro thing sounds
like.
I mean, obviously, you gave yourexample where you can function
within both methods, and maybethere it's appropriate in some
cases and not in other cases,depending on the thing.
What's ringing in my head ishelping couples or mom and kids
(17:40):
stop arguing over dumb shit.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Am I yes?
Yeah, and I will be the first toadmit my way's the right way.
Why aren't you just on board?
Has come out of my mouth in moreangry tones than I was like my
brain at first cannot have it'slike, why can't they just what
just put it where it goes?
(18:05):
Just it it goes there, yeah.
It took me the longest time tolet go of that control.
Ow.
It hurts a little still, but torealize, oh, I put the hurdle at
six feet and they're only three.
(18:25):
I've got to stop thinkingthey're actually going to use 17
beautifully color-coordinatedlabeled toy boxes that are all
stackable and how they work inmy brain.
And Pinterest told me it'sperfect.
That's cute.
That's your choice, that's yourlifestyle choice, though, right?
(18:46):
It can be Pinterest perfect, butyou're choosing to be the one to
make it like that every day.
And then don't be when you'relike, Why can't my kids just
because it's not set up forthem?
They're over here going, Youwant me to pick up my toys?
I need it to be like done.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Give me a bucket, let me throw all my crap in
there, I'm good.
Yeah, so like the communityelement of your offerings, how
much of that is counselingaround you need more control,
right?
Like, just you need this, isn'tjust about you.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
I will say that I have and I have it in multiple
places because I think it does.
I am not a I am not a licensedtherapist.
SPEAKER_02 (19:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
I am not.
I am kind of an a-hole.
SPEAKER_02 (19:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
And so the community, so we have a couple
communities.
The monthly membership is reallylike where I'm I show up.
It is not always kind, it'salways kind, but sometimes it's
that's cute.
But you said that last month.
What are we doing now with thesame pile of same excuses?
And so that's I forgot what yourquestion was, but you're gonna
(20:03):
be straight.
So, yeah, no, it's not mentalhealth because that's not I
don't have those letters behindmy name.
Yeah, if you sign up for themonthly membership and join us
every month, I'm not the onlyone that may or may not be like,
that's not gonna work.
That's dumb.
Get rid of it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Take steps, take action, stopwhining.
If you want to whine, there'sanother number to call.
SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
Yes, yeah.
But I also on the same side, oneof my one of my clients now,
she's in the membership group.
I absolutely adore her topieces.
Yeah, I didn't ask ahead of timeto share her name, so I won't,
but you'll see you've probablyseen her in clips.
She's left reviews and stuff.
And when we first met, I refusedto work with her one-on-one
(20:50):
because she was living like ahoarder.
There was not getting from roomto room safely, more or less,
right?
There was step over this, goover that, and go over a couple
years later.
She reached out, she's I havegotten the mental help I need.
What can we do?
And so now I see her every monthand we talk regularly and we
email when she's uh wants toemail.
(21:11):
And those are like, I know myboundaries, but if you aren't
taking the mental health statusto get to workable, that's well
beyond my abilities.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Wow.
Okay, so you have an onlinemonthly calls for the community
and you do one-on-one coaching.
Yeah, okay.
I'm really curious about thisone-on-one, not because I I need
it, like I'm fine with mydisaster.
I know where everything is, it'sgood.
But I'm just curious, what isthat one-on-one?
(21:47):
Let me ask it this way.
When you decided to doone-on-one call coaching, what
did you think that was gonnalook like compared to what it
actually looks like?
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
I thought it would look like show me your room,
let's shop on Amazon together.
Here, put these on.
I'll see you next week.
What it actually looks like is,and it is probably not the best
business financial choice.
There often looks to me goingfrom the first time, okay.
I think you need to take a stepback and join the monthly group.
(22:23):
Not a monthly group, it's acheaper option, but when you get
a group of women in the variousages and phases of life, so much
more can happen.
And I think I can't personallyrelate to my kids are growing
(22:43):
out of the house.
Now, I can help you organizethat.
I have read the books, I've donethe homework, I've done all that
stuff to help, but there's justan energy, and I don't even know
how to explain it.
Yeah, energy, I think, is thebest word that says join us
every month.
unknown (23:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
Bonus, save yourself money.
And I'm not saying I won'tcontinue to work with people
one-on-one, but I just mentalhealth, accountability, all of
those, you get those frompeople.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
And you never know what other people will be like
bringing to the table.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah, you get to kind of pick up, pick and
choose.
Oh, that sounded good, or oh,the way you think about it, the
way you said it makes sense tome now.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
And I can go and run with it.
So then the one-on-one, like,what is the purpose of the
one-on-one?
Is it like, do I call you up andyou tell my and I turn my camera
around and I say, okay, look inmy room, tell me what to do.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
Kind of.
So the one-on-one, if we've notworked together, I will vet you
beforehand.
I run into that situation, like,no, but I will normally it
starts with show me a space thatdoesn't make you angry.
Show me a space that you thinkworks.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Ah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
And then we die, oh, I see that junk drawer works for
you, Jesse, because you havecontainers inside, which to me
means you're a microorganizer.
So your pajama drawer isprobably not working because you
haven't folded anything, youhaven't separated the tops and
bottoms, and that's probably whyit's leading to frustration.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
Got it.
So you can diagnose based onshow me what works and show me
what doesn't.
Because most of us aren't awareor thinking in those frameworks.
It's just this works and thisone doesn't.
I don't know what the deal is.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah.
Man, also if you're one-on-one,it's less scary than
one-on-four.
Like I know everyone in thegroup, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
You might because this is a there's like a level,
an um an intense level ofvulnerability here for you to be
seeing like all my mess.
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
Yeah.
It's scary to open the frontdoor to a stranger.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
I mean, unless you're in the hood and then
you're just ready to go.
But it can be scary, andespecially if you're used to
people judging you.
I have no judgment.
unknown (25:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
If I had judgment, we probably wouldn't talk.
Honestly, because my face willsay it, so I know I'm not gonna
judge you.
SPEAKER_02 (25:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
But I do know that's scary.
And then we get in our ownheads.
I know too many women that arelike, oh, I oh, I gotta go clean
the house before the housecleaner comes over.
Wait.
What?
unknown (25:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
And I think that's in our oh, I gotta go tidy up
before the organizer comes over.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
That's what they're here for.
SPEAKER_00 (25:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
So I I can imagine that this is super helpful to
people because I mean, I'm justthinking about my mom and all my
exes that would lose their mindbecause they wanted me to do
stuff a certain way, and I'mlike, I don't understand what
the issue is.
Yeah, I really don't understand.
It's not that I don't care, it'sthat I don't understand, and all
(25:58):
I'm understanding is I'm doingit wrong.
I can't do anything with that.
So the framework or the styles,right?
Micro, macro, visual,non-visual, those make total
sense to me.
Like, I I still swear, I need mea glass door refrigerator.
(26:19):
That would be like the ultimate,so that I could see what's in
there, and I never double ordergroceries and I never run out of
anything because I could seeeverything.
Like, I gotta that's themajority of the way I organize.
Now, there's some things whereI'll have like little
compartment, like for mybackpack when I'm traveling with
all my camera gear and stuff.
(26:41):
Like, I have it very right.
There's a space, and I've gotwhat do you call them?
Shadow boards for like myremotes and jump drives and as
portable, what do they callthem?
Hard drives.
Portable hard drives.
I got them nice and organizedbecause I got to be able to see
them.
They go in their place.
And right, so there's I underlike I never would have given
(27:03):
it, I couldn't label it before,but I do understand.
Okay, super visual, and there issome, I do have some micro
tendencies, but with the forimportant things that I'm gonna
be touching frequently.
For things that I'm not gonnatouch, I'm sorry, for things
that I'm gonna be touchinginfrequently, I'm kind of micro.
(27:25):
For stuff that I touch all thetime, like my clothes and this
sort of thing, I'm macro, man.
Just dump it on a box and I'mgood.
Whatever.
And so giving it like I guesswhat I'm trying to say is
knowing these styles or thisframework, I think helps people.
Do any of your coaches, the onesone-on-ones or the community
(27:46):
group, do any of them feel like,man, we're not I'm not fighting
with the kids anymore, I'm notfighting with my significant
other anymore.
Does it have that kind of impacton them?
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
You have to ask them, Doug.
You have to join us next monthto ask them.
I think it more has I think ithas a bigger impact on the
person in it.
So let me explain this becausewhat you were just saying is
thank God we don't livetogether.
(28:18):
But what I actually heard was,and you and I are very similar
in this, I am a generalcategories, I am a non-visual
microorganizer.
I don't want to see my stuff allthe time, I want to find it in
one step.
Productive-wise, I have to seeeverything I need.
(28:39):
Period.
I will go to that closet, I willgrab my podcast bucket, which
has my headphones, has mymicrophone, normally has a spare
notebook.
Because if I don't have it allin one thing, out ready to go,
that's it.
It's not happening.
So I think the realization of itmay, I'm sure it does impact the
relationships of the house,right?
(29:00):
Like I know it has here, I'msure it has with me and my son,
even though he's he's very muchlike me, so it just kind of
works.
But I think it more impacts ourrelationships with our health,
with ourselves, with our ownmental abilities of like, why
isn't this working?
Oh, because it's not set up foryourself, right?
Like, why is a wall full ofsticky notes to-do list not
(29:23):
working?
Oh, because I don't want to seeit all.
Uh, this is not set up for mysuccess.
Why folding the sheets by setisn't working?
Oh, because I just want to graba flat one when I change the
bedding and be done with it.
Yes, and I think that overall,once you get clearer with
yourself, once you get, heyself, why isn't this working?
(29:45):
Then that outwardly can impactthe relationships in the home or
in the office.
I think that just has a naturaloccurrence.
But then also, if you've gotlittles or if you've got a you,
if you and I shared a space, I'dbe like, Like, okay, but why is
it not working?
Oh, because you're not a visualperson.
What the hell do you haveeverything on the board for,
(30:06):
dummy?
Yeah.
Right?
So, but you wouldn't talk toyour kids like that.
You're like, okay, but let'sbreak it down.
I'll never forget teaching myson to take over his laundry.
Because I had to put on aneight-year-old boy's hat.
I've never been aneight-year-old boy.
unknown (30:24):
I don't know what that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
And the conversation was like, this is the outcome,
but I don't want to do yourlaundry, and I don't want you to
call me from college.
And I really don't want to toucha teenage boy's clothes.
How do we get from here whereI'm angry and resentful and
confused to here and dialing itback?
(30:48):
Okay, oh, you need a no-foldsystem.
Let's start with that.
Let's switch that out.
Oh, you need something visuallymarked on the washer on where to
turn the dial.
Let's go with that.
Oh, you need a reminder on thecalendar in the kitchen.
Today is your day.
Let's do that.
(31:10):
And I think getting used toyourself helps you communicate
with those you share spaces withto make systems work for
everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Got okay.
So what's I mean, clearly,here's what's amazing is like
hearing you talk about it to thelevel of granularity and
understanding is this is athing.
With all the stuff that we haveto deal with in the world, in
our all our independent world,but in your world specifically,
what was it about anorganization that just intrigued
(31:41):
you so much for you to spend theamount of time necessary to get
as clear as you are about whatit means and how to do it?
SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Okay, say it again.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Yeah.
Like, why do you obsess aboutorganization?
Obsess?
What?
Well, I say that because I thinkfor me, obsess is it's a
positive term because there'sthings that I understand to a
degree.
I mean, you've gone through thetime management thing, like
(32:16):
there's layers and layers ofpsychosis in there because it's
something that I obsess about.
It's I spend enormous amounts oftime thinking about it, doing
it, analyzing why it works,analyzing why it doesn't work,
tweaking and adjusting.
And so that's what I mean byobsessed.
Like, it's just consume my mindto understand it better, not
(32:36):
just for my own application, butalso so that I could help other
people with it.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Yeah.
So I think obsessed because ifthe door is open, I have to
close it.
That's so earlier.
Honestly, in a simple way, Ididn't like who I was when we
weren't.
Ah, I was I can be a lot, butdeep down, like once you get to
(33:06):
know me, that a lot is let's gotogether.
What can we do?
All the boats rise, how can Ihelp?
That's the kind of energy Ireally bring.
But if you don't know me, youdon't it can be like, whoa,
yeah.
Oh no, but I was just tired of Iwas sick and tired of being sick
and tired of being resentful,angry, and being asked
(33:28):
questions.
SPEAKER_01 (33:29):
And so that drove you to okay, let me understand
this.
And then the pandemic hit, andso I gotta shift my business.
I'm I can help people with this.
And so here's a curious thing,and I'm gonna ask it this way
because like I started mybusiness just over three and a
half years ago, and I had anidea of what I was gonna be
(33:50):
doing and what it was gonna looklike, and all those things.
Well, fast forward three years,and it is very different than
what I wanted, what I thought Iwas gonna be doing, and that's
mostly informed by the peoplethat reach out to me based on
what I put out there for them tosee.
In terms like you said, okay, Igotta switch over to this
(34:11):
organization thing.
What did those conversationssound like back then compared to
the evolution to now?
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
It was a lot more me asking the questions and me
really breaking it down tounderstand what the need was.
My need for home living is verydifferent than yours, but it's
very different than over there,and really honing in on the
okay, but how do you want thisroom to feel when you walk into
(34:40):
it?
And then back stepping, okay,where are we and how do we get
there?
Yeah, and that really that Ithink really encouraged it.
Like when that mom asks me,okay, but how did you do that?
It really hit me like, duh, whatdo you mean?
SPEAKER_02 (34:57):
Like, just do it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
Yeah, you just do it.
You have the argument, you getpissed off about dinner, and
then it just happens.
I mean, it's really duh.
You yell at somebody and thenthey don't want you to yell at
them again, and of course,you're gonna like fix it.
But I realize it's not easy,right?
I have no problems askingquestions.
I have no problem sometimesbeing okay, this is not working.
(35:20):
And if you don't want me to comehome from work tomorrow and
scream at you again, we need todo, we need to do something
about it.
Not me needing to solve it.
People are scared of having hardconversations with their
families, with their husbands,with their spouses, with their
partners, whatever.
Oh, they'll never just okay,hold my beer.
Yeah, don't tell me we'll never.
SPEAKER_02 (35:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
I mean, I'm so proud of you and your sober journey,
by the way.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
Um, but I think I love a good challenge.
And I like learning and readingand trying things out and
solving that puzzle.
SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
It's just yeah, I really well.
Here's the other interestingthing.
Like, you've got theseframeworks that obviously work
because I mean, hell, I can makesense of them.
And it sounds like your firstinteraction, like those
discovery calls or whatever, aremore about feeling.
(36:22):
So, like, there's the feelingpart than then helps you connect
the different kinds offrameworks or we'll say
prescription to helping peoplemake organization feel doable.
Um what and I'm I maybe I'mwrong, but it sounds like that
was obvious from the beginning.
It's a matter of feeling thatthen is the trigger that
(36:47):
informs, okay, I don't want tofeel like this anymore.
If I want to feel different, wegot to do something different.
And you have the framework tohelp people get there.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
Yeah, it's breaking down, and it's multiple layers
of feeling, right?
I don't want to feel resentful,but I also want my kitchen to
feel inviting and productive.
SPEAKER_01 (37:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (37:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:06):
So how do we blend that?
And then once I set it up, andthen it's like, okay, mom's
tired of cooking every night.
How are we gonna get them tostart taking over?
Oh, how are we also going to getthem to start doing the dishes?
And then it's slowly adding tothat final goal, that final
(37:26):
feeling.
If you come to my house, I wantyou to probably not smell
anything.
My goal is to have no odor in myhouse.
I know it's a weird thing, but Ialso want you to feel like I'm
gonna kick off my shoes, fall onthe couch, she'll bring me a
glass of wine or a cup of coffeeor a snack.
Right.
I want you to feel like yeah,some people want you to walk in
(37:48):
and be like, cool, thank you forvisiting by.
And that also can tie into yourokay.
So let me ask you a question.
Have you ever, I'm just gonnaask, I didn't even ask
permission.
Have you ever gone somewhere,maybe somebody else's house, and
you're just like uncomfortable?
Oh, yeah, yes, not just becausethey're unpleasant people, no,
just because of the layout, thesetup.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
Yeah, hello organizing styles.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:15):
Because if I go to somebody's house who's clean
white surfaces, everything'spristine, I'm gonna feel like
I'm not taking my shoes off, I'mnot allowed to leave the mat.
I'm gonna sit on the very edgeof the chair and not touch
anything.
Yeah, if I walk into a house,there's some color, there's
maybe some kids' stuff overthere, you got a fuzzy blank.
I'm like, oh, home.
SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
Yes.
That's it's the feelingorganizational style right
there.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
It's the feeling and understanding not only your
goals and feelings, but how youwant the space to serve you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, well, so folks, there yougo.
You got it.
You walk into somebody's space,and it feels like if you touch
something, an alarm's gonna gooff.
There's an organizational stylethere.
But if you got squishy, fluffystuff and colors, and you know,
that that's a differentorganizational style.
So am I wrong?
(39:11):
Like, I always thought I couldjust go to Lowe's or Amazon and
buy organizational things, andthen I would be organized.
SPEAKER_00 (39:20):
Yes, you're wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
So how many of so how many of the people that you
help start there?
Is it like that's whereeverybody starts?
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
That is a pet peeve.
Okay, it's a backwards-lookingpet peeve because we've all been
there, right?
Like the in cap tells you, thead tells you this new year, new
you.
Let's get organized for life.
No, but that's what the outsideworld tells us.
But I'm gonna tell you rightnow, if you don't know your
(39:56):
organizing style, in three, sixmonths, you're gonna be super
pissed that you just spent$6,600on new containers that didn't
fix the problem.
SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
And now, bonus, the problem's back.
You have clutter from extrafreaking containers.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:26):
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
This is a real life example, andI'm not like an organizer.
I'm fine with clutter until itimpacts production, right?
Like my clothes.
I won't fold or hang my clothes,clean clothes, until I have to
dig like more than once.
(40:47):
And I was like, okay, it's timeto hang everything up because I
came and I was looking for socksyesterday, I'm looking for socks
again.
There's 20 pairs in there, Ijust need to fold them and put
them away.
Like, I it's that's I'm thatway.
Now I'm gonna here's my excusebecause I travel so much, so I'm
fancy.
Anyways, I was helping somebodyset up the Christmas tree for
(41:08):
Christmas, and the instructionswere go to the attic and bring
the Christmas stuff down.
And I said, Okay.
So I went to the attic, andguess what?
I did not, it was not clear atall where the Christmas stuff
was, because everything was upthere, like the Halloween stuff,
(41:29):
the Thanksgiving stuff, theChristmas stuff, the all the
stuff.
And I'm like, I don't know whereanything is.
So she says, okay, well, thenlet me show you.
And now the tension is up.
Okay, fine, let me show you.
Like, whoa, whoa, hey, wait aminute this isn't a meeting, and
then says, Okay, we're doing it.
But in my brain, I'm like, wecould be this is gonna take us
(41:52):
four hours.
It could be done in like lessthan two, but we can't do
anything separate because Idon't know where the things are.
So fast forward, I said, hey, Igot an idea.
I'm gonna add some more squarefootage up in the attic, and I'm
gonna just separate all thestuff and three piles Christmas
(42:13):
pile, Thanksgiving pile,Halloween pile.
And then we'll put some web overwhere the Halloween stuff is.
That's visual, that's where theHalloween stuff is.
We'll put a turkey feather orsomething where the Thanksgiving
stuff is, and then like garlandwhere the Christmas stuff is
like, my God, that'll beamazing! And so we did that,
which made the next Christmasmore productive, or the setup of
(42:36):
the tree more productive.
My point in that is it doesn'tbother me until it's starting to
impact production.
It also what caught my attentionwas the fact that we were not
having fun because of thearrangement, and so that was
really like this is a thing, weneed to fix this.
(42:56):
Now, I didn't go and guess what?
There was a whole bunch oforganizing bins and shelves and
shit that was a separate pilebecause they didn't get used.
I've been trying to do this forforever.
I'm like, yeah, so in terms ofjust adding a Christmas pile or
separating it into a Christmascorner of junk, a Thanksgiving
(43:19):
corner of junk, and a Halloweencorner of junk, does that
qualify as organization?
And is that like a visual style?
SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
That's yes, and yes.
Okay, because you need to okay,so and I will say I'm gonna go
with she when you had to ask herwhere things were, she's like,
I'll just do it my F and Cell.
SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
Yep, yep, you got it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:43):
Because in in our brains, I'll just do it.
It'll take me less time to do itmyself than have to explain it
to you, and then everybody'sfeelings are heightened, and I'm
mad because you said you'd help.
SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (43:57):
So you I'm sorry, you aren't special, those aren't
your alone feelings.
You're you share that with a lotof people, but the visual like
labeling makes it visual.
If you have something giant,colorful, obvious, then it's
labeled, which makes it a visualopportunity.
(44:19):
Now, were the bins clear orsolid?
SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
They were mixed, like so there was a set of clear
and a set of solid, and like whyare there two different kinds?
Well, because right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
So the the uh when you get container specific,
yeah, if it's clear, it'svisual, if it's solid, it's
non-visual.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Got it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:45):
Okay, but if you put a big old label, bright,
colorful, happy, obvious,preferably on three sides, top,
front, and side, yeah, sayingthis is mini Christmas trees,
brilliant.
You've now enabled the visualorganizer to achieve that
finding ability.
Yeah, so yes, all of the above.
SPEAKER_01 (45:08):
All of the above.
Got it, got it.
Okay, now I don't want to spillthe tea on the whole 3s method,
but I know the first s issimplify.
unknown (45:19):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:20):
What does that look like in practice?
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
So the definition of simplify, and I say definition
because every month at thebeginning of group, we cover a
space.
Okay, and so you have thatconstantly.
When we simplify a space, we aredecluttering anything that does
not serve our current selves.
We are not saving for the oh, Imay get into that address one
(45:44):
day, or oh, I really loved whenthe kids wore no current selves
because we are not reading ourbooks backwards, and we don't
know that we're gonna make ittill tomorrow.
So it is the decluttering partof right now.
SPEAKER_01 (46:01):
Oh, okay.
So LM family, if you didn't getthat, it's decluttering for the
current self, for the currentcondition, for who you are right
now, not who you might be, whoyou aspire to be, who you
remember you were.
It's for right now.
So what I'm interpreting is if Iain't gonna be using it this
(46:23):
week, I need to be getting ridof it.
SPEAKER_00 (46:25):
Okay.
No.
You are pissing me off, sir.
Because guess what?
I'm not using my snow shovelthis week, but I will in two
months.
SPEAKER_02 (46:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (46:41):
So it's current season of life.
I give myself a six-month windowbecause that's our rotation,
right?
September is all about theoffice.
We're moving into garage andoutdoor stuff next, and then
better bath and six-monthrotation.
Okay, so if I am working in mycloset, yes, and I have
(47:04):
decluttered everything done.
I put on and I'm like, oh, I'mstill fat, I take it back off,
right?
It's not getting a hanger back,but at that time, September,
I've done my closet.
I'm probably gonna flip on myhangers.
So in six months, if that thingI was about, it does not get to
(47:26):
say again.
A lot of the time, if you're Iwill, especially in monthly
group, we encourage a okay, itcan live here for now for now
being the thing.
It may get an expire box ifyou're emptying the kitchen.
Yeah, you put it in the garage,in the attic, in the trunk of
your car, whatever it is.
And in six months, when you'rechecking back in with that space
(47:50):
and your little bring bringbring goes off, the box has not
been opened.
Guess what you don't need.
SPEAKER_03 (47:57):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:58):
So, no, not right.
Well, I'm not using this today,I get to get rid of it.
No, you cannot, but you do haveto recognize and fully
understand your current seasonand space of life.
SPEAKER_01 (48:11):
Yes, I love it because I just got rid of some
shirts for that reason.
Like they were 30 pound agoshirts, and I haven't worn them.
I can't like when I butt theonly good thing about those
shirts is I don't have to ironthem because when I put them on,
I stretch out all the wrinkles,but they're a safety hazard
(48:31):
because a button might pop offand shoot somebody in the eye.
So I put them, I put them at theback of the closet.
I said, Man, I'm gonna focus,I'm gonna work.
It was a few weeks ago.
I'm like, man, I gotta get ridof shirts.
I'm just like, I ain't gonna bethere, and they're like out of
fashion, out of style.
(48:52):
Just get rid of them.
You have more important thingsto focus on.
So I love that.
I thank you for thatexplanation.
Help people kind of understandthat.
So it sounds like I go in therefor a season, yours is six
months, and I imagine that'sthat can vary based on the
person.
Uh then there's a timeout or atrial segment.
Okay, maybe not, but let's justput it over there.
(49:13):
We'll check back in next time onthe next cycle.
And if it's still not relevant,not applicable, whatever, I get
rid of it or not, and put itback into cycle, whatever that
is.
SPEAKER_00 (49:24):
Can I tell you why?
Yes.
That is yes, and it's a big,it's a big why for me.
It's like we talked about early,that mental clutter.
If I go to my closet and I seemy skinny Melissa dress that I'm
gonna get back into one day,every day I see that, I'm like,
that's so fast.
Oh if you would have kept thoseshirts, you'd be like, Oh, maybe
(49:47):
tomorrow.
I'm not working hard enough.
You are working hard enough.
You're in high school anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (49:51):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_00 (49:52):
And it's part of that mental clutter that we're
just issuing on ourselves thatwe don't need.
SPEAKER_01 (49:58):
Got it.
So it's like keeping that isalmost a form of abuse.
Like I'm just flogging myself bykeeping that front and center
that adds to the stress, themental clutter.
SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (50:13):
Damn.
But you're not a therapist.
SPEAKER_00 (50:18):
I don't get paid enough for that.
My rates would be like, phew.
SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I know for a fact that thisframework, this thinking is
helpful, but it's like a lot ofthings, kind of like the book
that you referenced earlier.
I knew that was gonna helppeople, just not me.
Oh my goodness.
Okay, so are you ready for thegrand slam closing question,
(50:49):
Miss Melissa?
SPEAKER_00 (50:52):
Okay, so yes.
Because I'm an overthinker, soof course I've been listening,
so I'm like, how can I answerthis correctly?
So I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01 (51:03):
Good, and I know you're ready because I mean, you
just told like your whole storyof getting into organization,
doing one-on-one coaching,helping people in your
community, like it's clear thatyou are here to serve.
And I mean, for real, you'relike enhancing the quality of
life for people, not just thepeople you work with, but the
(51:24):
people in their space.
And so, because of that, I knowyour answer is gonna be badass.
So, here's the question What isthe promise you are intended to
be?
SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
A Disney princess.
SPEAKER_01 (51:40):
Mission accomplished.
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
I could not screw with that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:48):
That was good.
SPEAKER_00 (51:50):
I think, I don't think, I promise to be better
tomorrow than I am yesterday inthe ship that we are.
So we are friends, we areentrepreneurs, we are sometimes
sassastic question, let's risetogether ship.
So I promise to call you out onthe bullshit when you question
(52:15):
yourself to help you grow as anentrepreneur, but also promise
to be an arrow of a friend whenyou need it.
Damn, I promise myself tocontinue working on going to the
grave empty.
I promise my community to meetme where you are, to oh, you
(52:38):
need something that's under 10bucks here.
Oh, you need accountabilityhere.
You need me to understand yoursituation better, I'll get back
with you.
I promise my son that good luck,I'll save some back for your
future therapy.
You are covered in character,but also it's a safe space.
Yeah, I promise my bestie.
(52:59):
Okay, do you need a shovel, afire pit, a ride?
Like what however you need me toshow up, I promise to show up
how you need me to the best ofmy abilities on the day you
call.
SPEAKER_01 (53:13):
Damn, mic drop.
SPEAKER_00 (53:16):
Did you have does that count?
SPEAKER_01 (53:21):
Oh my god, you freaking rocked it, sister.
Well done.
Was this fun, Miss Izzy?
SPEAKER_00 (53:28):
Dude, we always have fun.
SPEAKER_01 (53:30):
I know we do.
SPEAKER_00 (53:31):
You like a brother from another mother?
SPEAKER_01 (53:34):
Yeah, yeah, likewise.
I forgot to ask this, but ifpeople weren't in love with you
before you answered thequestion, there's no doubt
they're gonna say, Man, I gottabe in touch with Melissa.
Where do we send them?
Where's the best place for themto like get in contact with you
and get more of your flavor?
SPEAKER_00 (53:50):
Honestly, the website.
Okay, hopefulsimplicity.com.
It's got links to the socials.
So if you're an Instagram orFacebook person, you can find
them all there.
My email's there, the communityinformation, everything is
there.
SPEAKER_01 (54:04):
10-4.
So hopefulsimplicity.com, folks.
Hit up Melissa because she'sawesome.
And if you know people thatorganization is killing them and
they need some simplicity intheir life, Miss Melissa can
help them out.
Thank you for sticking it outall the way to the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on.
And in appreciation for the giftof time that you have given this
(54:28):
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book, Becoming
the Promise You're Intended toBe.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
There's a link in there.
You just click that button, youcan download the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
(54:52):
would be the ultimate.
You sharing that increases thelikelihood that it's gonna help
one more person.
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be.
Be kind to yourself, be cool,and we'll talk at you next time.
If you want your lifestyle to be overwhelmed,
resentful, pissed off, angry,because you have to follow the
kids around and put their toysaway, or you have to follow your
partner away and put thefreaking shoes where they go, or
you have to be the problemsolver, great.
That's your choice.
If you want your lifestyle tolook a little calmer, a little
(00:20):
hopeful, yeah, yeah, then it'san on-board home team.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
What is going on, LM family?
I'm like super excited because Iget to interview a super awesome
friend of mine that man, weconnected way back when like
Clubhouse was a thing.
She is the founder of HopefulSimplicity.
She helps busy women organizetheir spaces and makes
(00:52):
organization feel doable withher 3S method, which of course
we're going to learn a littlebit about this 3S method.
My friend's name is MelissaStetcher, who is the coolest
person that I get to hang outwith on the regular.
And I'm sure you're going tofall in love with her.
But before we get to learn moreabout that, if this is your
(01:14):
first time here, you'relistening to the Learnins and
Missteps podcast, where amazingpeople just like you tell us how
they are sharing their gifts andtalents to leave this world
better than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant,and we about to get to know Miss
Melissa.
(01:35):
Miss Melissa, how are you doing,my sister?
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
We did it.
We're here.
I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
We too, we too, especially.
We got time zones crossed up andwe rescheduling, but the stars
have aligned, and here we are.
So the world wants to know,Melissa.
What is this 3S method?
SPEAKER_00 (02:01):
It is the method I created for okay.
So it's the method I createdbecause busy moms like me.
I can walk into a room and belike, sure, I'm gonna declutter.
That's it.
But the 3S method tells youexactly what to do.
(02:21):
So it's a method that simplifiesthe decluttering process, it
simplifies the organizingprocess, but it hones into that
really key factor of sustainingan organized life.
And I think too often we're it'soverwhelming.
It's too much.
Moms have decision fatigue andbrain, like I don't even know
(02:43):
90% of the time.
So I needed something to tell meexactly what to do.
I don't want to make anotherdecision, I don't want to have
to figure it out.
And if I'm gonna pull out myphone to figure it out, I'd much
rather watch people hurtthemselves or people fall
downstairs or cute puppies.
Yeah, and that's what the 3Smethod is.
(03:05):
It's an organizing solutionsystem method for busy moms to
make it simplified.
SPEAKER_01 (03:13):
Okay, so here's what I think I'm hearing because I
don't have a problem withdisorganized space at all.
But what I'm hearing is somepeople walk into a space and
it's just ah, it's notorganized.
And so then the question orangst and irritation and anxiety
starts building because it'slike, where do I start?
(03:35):
And the 3S method, there'slevels or layers in terms of how
to start and then the next step,and then how to keep things
organized because that's theissue, right?
Is nothing ever just staysorganized.
Am I reading it right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
Yeah, the sustainability part.
So the 3S method, it's simplify,sustain.
SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (03:56):
3D F in the method, and the sustainable part, it
takes that delusion that we haveof ourselves as organizing as
one size fits all, but also,well, I got organized, it'll
stay that way.
But hi, we're living real lives,things are always coming in,
things are always going out,we're going through phases and
seasons of existence, so we needto just stop pretending once we
(04:20):
get it done, it'll be donebecause it's just not reality.
SPEAKER_01 (04:25):
Okay, so what keeps us from just leaving it as it
is?
Well, have to be organized.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Hang on, I'm channeling my appropriate
wording for this because momsare the central hubs of most
homes, right?
I'm not belittling dads, I'm notsaying men don't do that, I'm
whatever.
But when do I have anappointment?
Do is my uniform clean?
Have you seen my keys?
Do we pack the lunches?
Who's the kid's teacher?
No.
(04:56):
And so if we are stressed out byall the decisions we're already
making, and then we have cluttersitting around, that's a layer
of visual overwhelm that wealready don't know.
So visual clutter leads tomental clutter.
We don't have room for any morecrap in our heads.
So if the house is organized, ifthe house is calm, it's one
(05:20):
thing taken away out of ouroverload, out of our overwhelm,
and then maybe hopefully onestep closer to a little less
stressed and a little lessresentful and a lot less angry.
SPEAKER_01 (05:32):
Okay, I like that.
I can get on board with that.
So, this method is thissomething that you go hiking in
the Himalayas and find ancienttranscript of the 3S method, or
is how did you come across thisway of organizing and sustaining
the organization, organizedspace?
SPEAKER_00 (05:53):
That would be dope, wouldn't it?
Like long as where the Moanas ofthe next generation are going
into some cave, bang on a boatthing, and then 3S method just
happens to chime out.
That would be so dope.
I won't be here for it, butthat's okay.
So it I think part of it stemmedfrom it's really broken down, I
(06:14):
think, is chapter five of thefirst book as the why.
Why do you have to declutter?
Okay, but why do you have toknow what to declutter?
Okay, but why do you have toorganize?
Okay, but what do you organize?
And I'm like, I don't, I don'tknow.
And then I read this really neatbook by my friend Jesse.
I don't have my plumber'sedition anymore, but I do have a
newer edition, and he talksabout methods and breaks it down
(06:35):
and gives me things to step in.
So honing the 5S thing, I thinkit's 5S.
Yeah, and then I need somethingsimplified like that.
What would make sense to me?
Ah, assuming the world startsand stops just like I think.
All right.
So I need clarity, and I willask the questions until I am
(06:56):
blue and purple on the face.
I will.
SPEAKER_02 (06:58):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Because I need to understand.
And if I don't understand, thatmeans maybe someone else doesn't
understand.
SPEAKER_01 (07:05):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
That's kind of how that came about is why?
Okay, but why?
Okay, but why?
Okay, but more.
And then I got it as simplifiedas I could get it simplified.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Yes.
Okay, and so now you have so yougot the 3S method, you're
helping busy women, moms, likewomen, all of the above,
organize their spaces.
You have hopeful simplicity, youhave a community.
Like, was this your vision as ayoung lady when you were roller?
I want to help people organize.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
No, no, my vision was I was going to do Disney
voiceovers and sing a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Oh, okay.
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:48):
And here we are.
So it actually, so this cameabout even before Hopeful
Simplicity did.
I rebranded when organizing kindof took over the business.
It started with cleaningproducts and homemade products,
and I need to not have to holdmy breath when cleaning that
(08:11):
kind of manifested and shiftedand rebranded into an organizing
business because I came to therealization that cleaning was
just part of it.
That's just the last part andthe minor detail of it.
That's over the decade, it kindof became this, it's an
organizing business.
SPEAKER_02 (08:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:30):
It was never a childhood thing.
And I was, I mean, I was one ofthose kids that had a path from
the door to the bed.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
Yes, me too.
SPEAKER_00 (08:39):
Yeah, I am still some of those sometimes like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:47):
So okay, so you mentioned that like the business
started off.
I think there's an importantpoint here because I know we've
got a lot of LM family membersout there that are like side
hustling or trying to launch anidea.
So it started off with like itsounded like household cleaning
products, homemade hypercleaning methods, and then it
(09:10):
turned into what is now Grismethod and organization.
So here's the question (09:14):
how hard was it for you to like let go of
what you originally thought itneeded to be and transition to
what it is now?
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
It was more emotional than I thought it
would be.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
Because I had products and shops here locally.
I did fairs and festivals andwinter markets and things like
that.
Now, the introvert in me waslike, Woo, stay home.
But the business part of me isbut I can help people and I'm I
can talk to people and I can,and then you know, a pandemic
(09:52):
hit, and I'm like, that's gone.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
That's done.
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
Forget that.
And so that I think the pandemicpersonally helped me release it
by force instead of have to.
And then a friend came to visitbefore social distancing, and I
happen to be living withsomebody, and we had a couple
kids staying with us, and wewere meal planning and meal
prepping, and we were doing ittogether.
SPEAKER_01 (10:20):
We want to do the LM family member shout out, and
this one goes out to Mr.
Clyde.
Mr.
Clyde sent this, he says, I'mjuggling construction work,
coaching, and family, and thishelped me calm the chaos in my
head.
And what's he talking about?
He's talking about theself-first time mastery
(10:40):
workshop.
So, first, Clyde, thank you forlike taking the time to sign up
and then coming to the sessionand contributing.
And I'm super happy that itcontributed to you in a big way.
And folks, for the rest of youout there that are listening, if
you don't know, I gotta tellyou, I love attention, I love
knowing that you're out there.
So send me a comment, leave areview, do the stars, all of the
(11:02):
things, because it gives me anopportunity to shout you out
again in the future.
unknown (11:09):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
I'm kind of a lot, right?
Like, I'm like, I'm not doingthis, or nobody's eating.
Like, we're doing this, or Idon't care.
And she's she asked me later,she's like, but how did you do
that?
I'm like, how did I how did I dowhat she's you guys
communicated?
He looked at the list, youlooked at the list, you looked
in the pantry, he looked in thefridge, you made it all work in
(11:31):
this planner for the week.
How did you do that?
And then I was just like, Oh,this is beyond products, this is
a lifestyle choice, this is ahome management option, this is
beyond who runs the vacuum.
And that really opened up myeyes to rebrand in a way and
(11:52):
reformat the business to betterserve what really needs to
happen.
You can go to the supermarketand buy cleaning product, it may
or may not make you sneeze, youmay or may not like the smell,
but until you can brace alifestyle that actually fits,
yeah, that's the difference.
SPEAKER_01 (12:10):
So, and you're saying lifestyle, what I'm
hearing when you say a lifestylethat fits, what I'm hearing is
like a method or a thinkingmental models that help do the
organization as a singularindividual or as with roommates,
with a husband, with kids, likeall of the above.
(12:31):
Is that what I'm hearing?
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
It's so when I say lifestyle, I mean what do you
want the style of your life tobe?
If you share a house, people aregonna be in it.
Yes, it is what it is.
So if you want your lifestyle tobe overwhelmed, resentful,
pissed off, angry, because youhave to follow the kids around
and put their toys away, or youhave to follow your partner away
(12:53):
and put the freaking shoes wherethey go, or you have to be the
problem solver, great, that'syour choice.
If you want your lifestyle tolook a little calmer, a little
hopeful, yeah, yeah, then it'san onboard home team, home
office even situation becauseyou don't want to carry that to
(13:13):
the office, you don't want toget home from the office and be
like, no, I'm not going inthere.
SPEAKER_02 (13:18):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:19):
So that's what I mean by lifestyle.
It's no different than ourfamily's gonna eat healthier, so
we're going to cook meals thatwe all like, we're all gonna do
this.
It's no different, it's just anew way of thinking about it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:31):
Okay, now in the line of style lifestyle, I've
seen some of your posts on theInstagram and on the LinkedIn
because you're active.
And I remember seeing some postsabout organizational styles.
What is that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
That is knowing you.
You, you're selfish, you loveyou.
Who doesn't?
I do.
It's knowing what works best foryou.
So there's four stylesgenerally, and you'll hear it
across different organizingpeople, right?
Pick the one that fits yourflavor, but it's knowing visual,
non-visual.
My office setup, I love thesethings, so they're visually out.
(14:10):
The things I don't love arenon-visually set up.
You know what you don't see?
You don't see a whole bunch ofpaper, you don't see a whole
bunch of notebooks, you don'tsee all my office supplies, all
my files.
All of those are non-visualsetups.
Same with macro and micro.
I live with a 17-year-old boy.
There is no way in 40 flippinguniverse am I going to get him
(14:34):
to open a container, even if ittakes the lid off, put something
in it, and put the lid back.
It's never going to happen.
I know this because it is hisorganizing style.
If it's not put away hard andfast, it's not getting put away
like mom wants it.
So the spaces we share, theliving room, the kitchen, the
(14:57):
bathroom are very set up forone-step put away, which is a
macro organizing system.
My office, my sock drawer, mycloset, set up how I need it to
be a very micro system, which isa one-step finding thing.
If I have to look for it, digfor it, or search for it, I am
pissed off.
About to be stressed out by thetime I've even find the shirt I
(15:19):
want to wear in the morning.
SPEAKER_01 (15:20):
Yes, I feel that in all kinds of ways.
Because I've similarly like Iknow where I put things.
I exam, when I go visit my mom,sometimes I typically leave my
keys in my pocket.
But sometimes I'll take them outto unlock the door or whatever.
And if they're not in my pocket,it's all shit.
That's where they go.
(15:40):
Or when I'm home, I put them onthe thing.
I live alone, so nobody moves mystuff.
But I've lived with otherpeople, and when they move
things from where I put them,like that is not okay.
That is a problem.
SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
But it's also important to know what's going
to work for the space peopleyou're sharing things with,
right?
I know I can have the bestsystem in place, but if it's not
gonna work for him, it's not theright system, right?
So if it's a shared space, allthe movies and DVDs and video
games could be colorcoordinated, organized by how
(16:18):
you play it, who plays it, allthe things.
It's never gonna put back bythat.
So I have to set it up for theleast argumentative situation.
So if you're organizing withmore than one person, we always
lean for visual organizing.
unknown (16:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
So the pantry door might be solid, but you're gonna
open the pantry door, all theclear containers are inside, so
you can see exactly what's inthere when you need it, because
it's easier for somebody to seewhere it goes instead of find
where it goes because it's notgonna happen.
And it's the same for macroversus micro.
It's easier to take steps awayfrom me and my want to take a
(16:55):
lid off, and there's this insidethe this where I can just drop
stuff, done, right?
Put away.
He can he, I'm not saying hecan't, but I'm saying he's less
likely to succeed if I add stepsto his process.
unknown (17:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
Got it.
Okay, so I'm curious, like thismicro and macro thing sounds
like.
I mean, obviously, you gave yourexample where you can function
within both methods, and maybethere it's appropriate in some
cases and not in other cases,depending on the thing.
What's ringing in my head ishelping couples or mom and kids
(17:40):
stop arguing over dumb shit.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Am I yes?
Yeah, and I will be the first toadmit my way's the right way.
Why aren't you just on board?
Has come out of my mouth in moreangry tones than I was like my
brain at first cannot have it'slike, why can't they just what
just put it where it goes?
(18:05):
Just it it goes there, yeah.
It took me the longest time tolet go of that control.
Ow.
It hurts a little still, but torealize, oh, I put the hurdle at
six feet and they're only three.
(18:25):
I've got to stop thinkingthey're actually going to use 17
beautifully color-coordinatedlabeled toy boxes that are all
stackable and how they work inmy brain.
And Pinterest told me it'sperfect.
That's cute.
That's your choice, that's yourlifestyle choice, though, right?
(18:46):
It can be Pinterest perfect, butyou're choosing to be the one to
make it like that every day.
And then don't be when you'relike, Why can't my kids just
because it's not set up forthem?
They're over here going, Youwant me to pick up my toys?
I need it to be like done.
SPEAKER_01 (19:02):
Give me a bucket, let me throw all my crap in
there, I'm good.
Yeah, so like the communityelement of your offerings, how
much of that is counselingaround you need more control,
right?
Like, just you need this, isn'tjust about you.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
I will say that I have and I have it in multiple
places because I think it does.
I am not a I am not a licensedtherapist.
SPEAKER_02 (19:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
I am not.
I am kind of an a-hole.
SPEAKER_02 (19:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
And so the community, so we have a couple
communities.
The monthly membership is reallylike where I'm I show up.
It is not always kind, it'salways kind, but sometimes it's
that's cute.
But you said that last month.
What are we doing now with thesame pile of same excuses?
And so that's I forgot what yourquestion was, but you're gonna
(20:03):
be straight.
So, yeah, no, it's not mentalhealth because that's not I
don't have those letters behindmy name.
Yeah, if you sign up for themonthly membership and join us
every month, I'm not the onlyone that may or may not be like,
that's not gonna work.
That's dumb.
Get rid of it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
Yeah, yeah.
Take steps, take action, stopwhining.
If you want to whine, there'sanother number to call.
SPEAKER_00 (20:28):
Yes, yeah.
But I also on the same side, oneof my one of my clients now,
she's in the membership group.
I absolutely adore her topieces.
Yeah, I didn't ask ahead of timeto share her name, so I won't,
but you'll see you've probablyseen her in clips.
She's left reviews and stuff.
And when we first met, I refusedto work with her one-on-one
(20:50):
because she was living like ahoarder.
There was not getting from roomto room safely, more or less,
right?
There was step over this, goover that, and go over a couple
years later.
She reached out, she's I havegotten the mental help I need.
What can we do?
And so now I see her every monthand we talk regularly and we
email when she's uh wants toemail.
(21:11):
And those are like, I know myboundaries, but if you aren't
taking the mental health statusto get to workable, that's well
beyond my abilities.
SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Wow.
Okay, so you have an onlinemonthly calls for the community
and you do one-on-one coaching.
Yeah, okay.
I'm really curious about thisone-on-one, not because I I need
it, like I'm fine with mydisaster.
I know where everything is, it'sgood.
But I'm just curious, what isthat one-on-one?
(21:47):
Let me ask it this way.
When you decided to doone-on-one call coaching, what
did you think that was gonnalook like compared to what it
actually looks like?
SPEAKER_00 (22:00):
I thought it would look like show me your room,
let's shop on Amazon together.
Here, put these on.
I'll see you next week.
What it actually looks like is,and it is probably not the best
business financial choice.
There often looks to me goingfrom the first time, okay.
I think you need to take a stepback and join the monthly group.
(22:23):
Not a monthly group, it's acheaper option, but when you get
a group of women in the variousages and phases of life, so much
more can happen.
And I think I can't personallyrelate to my kids are growing
(22:43):
out of the house.
Now, I can help you organizethat.
I have read the books, I've donethe homework, I've done all that
stuff to help, but there's justan energy, and I don't even know
how to explain it.
Yeah, energy, I think, is thebest word that says join us
every month.
unknown (23:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
Bonus, save yourself money.
And I'm not saying I won'tcontinue to work with people
one-on-one, but I just mentalhealth, accountability, all of
those, you get those frompeople.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
And you never know what other people will be like
bringing to the table.
SPEAKER_01 (23:16):
Yeah, you get to kind of pick up, pick and
choose.
Oh, that sounded good, or oh,the way you think about it, the
way you said it makes sense tome now.
SPEAKER_02 (23:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:24):
And I can go and run with it.
So then the one-on-one, like,what is the purpose of the
one-on-one?
Is it like, do I call you up andyou tell my and I turn my camera
around and I say, okay, look inmy room, tell me what to do.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
Kind of.
So the one-on-one, if we've notworked together, I will vet you
beforehand.
I run into that situation, like,no, but I will normally it
starts with show me a space thatdoesn't make you angry.
Show me a space that you thinkworks.
SPEAKER_01 (23:56):
Ah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
And then we die, oh, I see that junk drawer works for
you, Jesse, because you havecontainers inside, which to me
means you're a microorganizer.
So your pajama drawer isprobably not working because you
haven't folded anything, youhaven't separated the tops and
bottoms, and that's probably whyit's leading to frustration.
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
Got it.
So you can diagnose based onshow me what works and show me
what doesn't.
Because most of us aren't awareor thinking in those frameworks.
It's just this works and thisone doesn't.
I don't know what the deal is.
SPEAKER_00 (24:30):
Yeah.
Man, also if you're one-on-one,it's less scary than
one-on-four.
Like I know everyone in thegroup, right?
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
You might because this is a there's like a level,
an um an intense level ofvulnerability here for you to be
seeing like all my mess.
SPEAKER_00 (24:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:53):
Yeah.
It's scary to open the frontdoor to a stranger.
SPEAKER_02 (24:56):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:57):
I mean, unless you're in the hood and then
you're just ready to go.
But it can be scary, andespecially if you're used to
people judging you.
I have no judgment.
unknown (25:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
If I had judgment, we probably wouldn't talk.
Honestly, because my face willsay it, so I know I'm not gonna
judge you.
SPEAKER_02 (25:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
But I do know that's scary.
And then we get in our ownheads.
I know too many women that arelike, oh, I oh, I gotta go clean
the house before the housecleaner comes over.
Wait.
What?
unknown (25:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
And I think that's in our oh, I gotta go tidy up
before the organizer comes over.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
That's what they're here for.
SPEAKER_00 (25:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
So I I can imagine that this is super helpful to
people because I mean, I'm justthinking about my mom and all my
exes that would lose their mindbecause they wanted me to do
stuff a certain way, and I'mlike, I don't understand what
the issue is.
Yeah, I really don't understand.
It's not that I don't care, it'sthat I don't understand, and all
(25:58):
I'm understanding is I'm doingit wrong.
I can't do anything with that.
So the framework or the styles,right?
Micro, macro, visual,non-visual, those make total
sense to me.
Like, I I still swear, I need mea glass door refrigerator.
(26:19):
That would be like the ultimate,so that I could see what's in
there, and I never double ordergroceries and I never run out of
anything because I could seeeverything.
Like, I gotta that's themajority of the way I organize.
Now, there's some things whereI'll have like little
compartment, like for mybackpack when I'm traveling with
all my camera gear and stuff.
(26:41):
Like, I have it very right.
There's a space, and I've gotwhat do you call them?
Shadow boards for like myremotes and jump drives and as
portable, what do they callthem?
Hard drives.
Portable hard drives.
I got them nice and organizedbecause I got to be able to see
them.
They go in their place.
And right, so there's I underlike I never would have given
(27:03):
it, I couldn't label it before,but I do understand.
Okay, super visual, and there issome, I do have some micro
tendencies, but with the forimportant things that I'm gonna
be touching frequently.
For things that I'm not gonnatouch, I'm sorry, for things
that I'm gonna be touchinginfrequently, I'm kind of micro.
(27:25):
For stuff that I touch all thetime, like my clothes and this
sort of thing, I'm macro, man.
Just dump it on a box and I'mgood.
Whatever.
And so giving it like I guesswhat I'm trying to say is
knowing these styles or thisframework, I think helps people.
Do any of your coaches, the onesone-on-ones or the community
(27:46):
group, do any of them feel like,man, we're not I'm not fighting
with the kids anymore, I'm notfighting with my significant
other anymore.
Does it have that kind of impacton them?
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
You have to ask them, Doug.
You have to join us next monthto ask them.
I think it more has I think ithas a bigger impact on the
person in it.
So let me explain this becausewhat you were just saying is
thank God we don't livetogether.
(28:18):
But what I actually heard was,and you and I are very similar
in this, I am a generalcategories, I am a non-visual
microorganizer.
I don't want to see my stuff allthe time, I want to find it in
one step.
Productive-wise, I have to seeeverything I need.
(28:39):
Period.
I will go to that closet, I willgrab my podcast bucket, which
has my headphones, has mymicrophone, normally has a spare
notebook.
Because if I don't have it allin one thing, out ready to go,
that's it.
It's not happening.
So I think the realization of itmay, I'm sure it does impact the
relationships of the house,right?
(29:00):
Like I know it has here, I'msure it has with me and my son,
even though he's he's very muchlike me, so it just kind of
works.
But I think it more impacts ourrelationships with our health,
with ourselves, with our ownmental abilities of like, why
isn't this working?
Oh, because it's not set up foryourself, right?
Like, why is a wall full ofsticky notes to-do list not
(29:23):
working?
Oh, because I don't want to seeit all.
Uh, this is not set up for mysuccess.
Why folding the sheets by setisn't working?
Oh, because I just want to graba flat one when I change the
bedding and be done with it.
Yes, and I think that overall,once you get clearer with
yourself, once you get, heyself, why isn't this working?
(29:45):
Then that outwardly can impactthe relationships in the home or
in the office.
I think that just has a naturaloccurrence.
But then also, if you've gotlittles or if you've got a you,
if you and I shared a space, I'dbe like, Like, okay, but why is
it not working?
Oh, because you're not a visualperson.
What the hell do you haveeverything on the board for,
(30:06):
dummy?
Yeah.
Right?
So, but you wouldn't talk toyour kids like that.
You're like, okay, but let'sbreak it down.
I'll never forget teaching myson to take over his laundry.
Because I had to put on aneight-year-old boy's hat.
I've never been aneight-year-old boy.
unknown (30:24):
I don't know what that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
And the conversation was like, this is the outcome,
but I don't want to do yourlaundry, and I don't want you to
call me from college.
And I really don't want to toucha teenage boy's clothes.
How do we get from here whereI'm angry and resentful and
confused to here and dialing itback?
(30:48):
Okay, oh, you need a no-foldsystem.
Let's start with that.
Let's switch that out.
Oh, you need something visuallymarked on the washer on where to
turn the dial.
Let's go with that.
Oh, you need a reminder on thecalendar in the kitchen.
Today is your day.
Let's do that.
(31:10):
And I think getting used toyourself helps you communicate
with those you share spaces withto make systems work for
everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (31:18):
Got okay.
So what's I mean, clearly,here's what's amazing is like
hearing you talk about it to thelevel of granularity and
understanding is this is athing.
With all the stuff that we haveto deal with in the world, in
our all our independent world,but in your world specifically,
what was it about anorganization that just intrigued
(31:41):
you so much for you to spend theamount of time necessary to get
as clear as you are about whatit means and how to do it?
SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Okay, say it again.
SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
Yeah.
Like, why do you obsess aboutorganization?
Obsess?
What?
Well, I say that because I thinkfor me, obsess is it's a
positive term because there'sthings that I understand to a
degree.
I mean, you've gone through thetime management thing, like
(32:16):
there's layers and layers ofpsychosis in there because it's
something that I obsess about.
It's I spend enormous amounts oftime thinking about it, doing
it, analyzing why it works,analyzing why it doesn't work,
tweaking and adjusting.
And so that's what I mean byobsessed.
Like, it's just consume my mindto understand it better, not
(32:36):
just for my own application, butalso so that I could help other
people with it.
SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Yeah.
So I think obsessed because ifthe door is open, I have to
close it.
That's so earlier.
Honestly, in a simple way, Ididn't like who I was when we
weren't.
Ah, I was I can be a lot, butdeep down, like once you get to
(33:06):
know me, that a lot is let's gotogether.
What can we do?
All the boats rise, how can Ihelp?
That's the kind of energy Ireally bring.
But if you don't know me, youdon't it can be like, whoa,
yeah.
Oh no, but I was just tired of Iwas sick and tired of being sick
and tired of being resentful,angry, and being asked
(33:28):
questions.
SPEAKER_01 (33:29):
And so that drove you to okay, let me understand
this.
And then the pandemic hit, andso I gotta shift my business.
I'm I can help people with this.
And so here's a curious thing,and I'm gonna ask it this way
because like I started mybusiness just over three and a
half years ago, and I had anidea of what I was gonna be
(33:50):
doing and what it was gonna looklike, and all those things.
Well, fast forward three years,and it is very different than
what I wanted, what I thought Iwas gonna be doing, and that's
mostly informed by the peoplethat reach out to me based on
what I put out there for them tosee.
In terms like you said, okay, Igotta switch over to this
(34:11):
organization thing.
What did those conversationssound like back then compared to
the evolution to now?
SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
It was a lot more me asking the questions and me
really breaking it down tounderstand what the need was.
My need for home living is verydifferent than yours, but it's
very different than over there,and really honing in on the
okay, but how do you want thisroom to feel when you walk into
(34:40):
it?
And then back stepping, okay,where are we and how do we get
there?
Yeah, and that really that Ithink really encouraged it.
Like when that mom asks me,okay, but how did you do that?
It really hit me like, duh, whatdo you mean?
SPEAKER_02 (34:57):
Like, just do it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:58):
Yeah, you just do it.
You have the argument, you getpissed off about dinner, and
then it just happens.
I mean, it's really duh.
You yell at somebody and thenthey don't want you to yell at
them again, and of course,you're gonna like fix it.
But I realize it's not easy,right?
I have no problems askingquestions.
I have no problem sometimesbeing okay, this is not working.
(35:20):
And if you don't want me to comehome from work tomorrow and
scream at you again, we need todo, we need to do something
about it.
Not me needing to solve it.
People are scared of having hardconversations with their
families, with their husbands,with their spouses, with their
partners, whatever.
Oh, they'll never just okay,hold my beer.
Yeah, don't tell me we'll never.
SPEAKER_02 (35:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
I mean, I'm so proud of you and your sober journey,
by the way.
SPEAKER_02 (35:45):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
Um, but I think I love a good challenge.
And I like learning and readingand trying things out and
solving that puzzle.
SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
It's just yeah, I really well.
Here's the other interestingthing.
Like, you've got theseframeworks that obviously work
because I mean, hell, I can makesense of them.
And it sounds like your firstinteraction, like those
discovery calls or whatever, aremore about feeling.
(36:22):
So, like, there's the feelingpart than then helps you connect
the different kinds offrameworks or we'll say
prescription to helping peoplemake organization feel doable.
Um what and I'm I maybe I'mwrong, but it sounds like that
was obvious from the beginning.
It's a matter of feeling thatthen is the trigger that
(36:47):
informs, okay, I don't want tofeel like this anymore.
If I want to feel different, wegot to do something different.
And you have the framework tohelp people get there.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
Yeah, it's breaking down, and it's multiple layers
of feeling, right?
I don't want to feel resentful,but I also want my kitchen to
feel inviting and productive.
SPEAKER_01 (37:04):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (37:05):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:06):
So how do we blend that?
And then once I set it up, andthen it's like, okay, mom's
tired of cooking every night.
How are we gonna get them tostart taking over?
Oh, how are we also going to getthem to start doing the dishes?
And then it's slowly adding tothat final goal, that final
(37:26):
feeling.
If you come to my house, I wantyou to probably not smell
anything.
My goal is to have no odor in myhouse.
I know it's a weird thing, but Ialso want you to feel like I'm
gonna kick off my shoes, fall onthe couch, she'll bring me a
glass of wine or a cup of coffeeor a snack.
Right.
I want you to feel like yeah,some people want you to walk in
(37:48):
and be like, cool, thank you forvisiting by.
And that also can tie into yourokay.
So let me ask you a question.
Have you ever, I'm just gonnaask, I didn't even ask
permission.
Have you ever gone somewhere,maybe somebody else's house, and
you're just like uncomfortable?
Oh, yeah, yes, not just becausethey're unpleasant people, no,
just because of the layout, thesetup.
SPEAKER_01 (38:10):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
Yeah, hello organizing styles.
SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:15):
Because if I go to somebody's house who's clean
white surfaces, everything'spristine, I'm gonna feel like
I'm not taking my shoes off, I'mnot allowed to leave the mat.
I'm gonna sit on the very edgeof the chair and not touch
anything.
Yeah, if I walk into a house,there's some color, there's
maybe some kids' stuff overthere, you got a fuzzy blank.
I'm like, oh, home.
SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
Yes.
That's it's the feelingorganizational style right
there.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
It's the feeling and understanding not only your
goals and feelings, but how youwant the space to serve you.
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, well, so folks, there yougo.
You got it.
You walk into somebody's space,and it feels like if you touch
something, an alarm's gonna gooff.
There's an organizational stylethere.
But if you got squishy, fluffystuff and colors, and you know,
that that's a differentorganizational style.
So am I wrong?
(39:11):
Like, I always thought I couldjust go to Lowe's or Amazon and
buy organizational things, andthen I would be organized.
SPEAKER_00 (39:20):
Yes, you're wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
So how many of so how many of the people that you
help start there?
Is it like that's whereeverybody starts?
SPEAKER_00 (39:35):
That is a pet peeve.
Okay, it's a backwards-lookingpet peeve because we've all been
there, right?
Like the in cap tells you, thead tells you this new year, new
you.
Let's get organized for life.
No, but that's what the outsideworld tells us.
But I'm gonna tell you rightnow, if you don't know your
(39:56):
organizing style, in three, sixmonths, you're gonna be super
pissed that you just spent$6,600on new containers that didn't
fix the problem.
SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:10):
And now, bonus, the problem's back.
You have clutter from extrafreaking containers.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:26):
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
This is a real life example, andI'm not like an organizer.
I'm fine with clutter until itimpacts production, right?
Like my clothes.
I won't fold or hang my clothes,clean clothes, until I have to
dig like more than once.
(40:47):
And I was like, okay, it's timeto hang everything up because I
came and I was looking for socksyesterday, I'm looking for socks
again.
There's 20 pairs in there, Ijust need to fold them and put
them away.
Like, I it's that's I'm thatway.
Now I'm gonna here's my excusebecause I travel so much, so I'm
fancy.
Anyways, I was helping somebodyset up the Christmas tree for
(41:08):
Christmas, and the instructionswere go to the attic and bring
the Christmas stuff down.
And I said, Okay.
So I went to the attic, andguess what?
I did not, it was not clear atall where the Christmas stuff
was, because everything was upthere, like the Halloween stuff,
(41:29):
the Thanksgiving stuff, theChristmas stuff, the all the
stuff.
And I'm like, I don't know whereanything is.
So she says, okay, well, thenlet me show you.
And now the tension is up.
Okay, fine, let me show you.
Like, whoa, whoa, hey, wait aminute this isn't a meeting, and
then says, Okay, we're doing it.
But in my brain, I'm like, wecould be this is gonna take us
(41:52):
four hours.
It could be done in like lessthan two, but we can't do
anything separate because Idon't know where the things are.
So fast forward, I said, hey, Igot an idea.
I'm gonna add some more squarefootage up in the attic, and I'm
gonna just separate all thestuff and three piles Christmas
(42:13):
pile, Thanksgiving pile,Halloween pile.
And then we'll put some web overwhere the Halloween stuff is.
That's visual, that's where theHalloween stuff is.
We'll put a turkey feather orsomething where the Thanksgiving
stuff is, and then like garlandwhere the Christmas stuff is
like, my God, that'll beamazing! And so we did that,
which made the next Christmasmore productive, or the setup of
(42:36):
the tree more productive.
My point in that is it doesn'tbother me until it's starting to
impact production.
It also what caught my attentionwas the fact that we were not
having fun because of thearrangement, and so that was
really like this is a thing, weneed to fix this.
(42:56):
Now, I didn't go and guess what?
There was a whole bunch oforganizing bins and shelves and
shit that was a separate pilebecause they didn't get used.
I've been trying to do this forforever.
I'm like, yeah, so in terms ofjust adding a Christmas pile or
separating it into a Christmascorner of junk, a Thanksgiving
(43:19):
corner of junk, and a Halloweencorner of junk, does that
qualify as organization?
And is that like a visual style?
SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
That's yes, and yes.
Okay, because you need to okay,so and I will say I'm gonna go
with she when you had to ask herwhere things were, she's like,
I'll just do it my F and Cell.
SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
Yep, yep, you got it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:43):
Because in in our brains, I'll just do it.
It'll take me less time to do itmyself than have to explain it
to you, and then everybody'sfeelings are heightened, and I'm
mad because you said you'd help.
SPEAKER_02 (43:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (43:57):
So you I'm sorry, you aren't special, those aren't
your alone feelings.
You're you share that with a lotof people, but the visual like
labeling makes it visual.
If you have something giant,colorful, obvious, then it's
labeled, which makes it a visualopportunity.
(44:19):
Now, were the bins clear orsolid?
SPEAKER_01 (44:24):
They were mixed, like so there was a set of clear
and a set of solid, and like whyare there two different kinds?
Well, because right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:36):
So the the uh when you get container specific,
yeah, if it's clear, it'svisual, if it's solid, it's
non-visual.
SPEAKER_01 (44:44):
Got it.
SPEAKER_00 (44:45):
Okay, but if you put a big old label, bright,
colorful, happy, obvious,preferably on three sides, top,
front, and side, yeah, sayingthis is mini Christmas trees,
brilliant.
You've now enabled the visualorganizer to achieve that
finding ability.
Yeah, so yes, all of the above.
SPEAKER_01 (45:08):
All of the above.
Got it, got it.
Okay, now I don't want to spillthe tea on the whole 3s method,
but I know the first s issimplify.
unknown (45:19):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (45:20):
What does that look like in practice?
SPEAKER_00 (45:24):
So the definition of simplify, and I say definition
because every month at thebeginning of group, we cover a
space.
Okay, and so you have thatconstantly.
When we simplify a space, we aredecluttering anything that does
not serve our current selves.
We are not saving for the oh, Imay get into that address one
(45:44):
day, or oh, I really loved whenthe kids wore no current selves
because we are not reading ourbooks backwards, and we don't
know that we're gonna make ittill tomorrow.
So it is the decluttering partof right now.
SPEAKER_01 (46:01):
Oh, okay.
So LM family, if you didn't getthat, it's decluttering for the
current self, for the currentcondition, for who you are right
now, not who you might be, whoyou aspire to be, who you
remember you were.
It's for right now.
So what I'm interpreting is if Iain't gonna be using it this
(46:23):
week, I need to be getting ridof it.
SPEAKER_00 (46:25):
Okay.
No.
You are pissing me off, sir.
Because guess what?
I'm not using my snow shovelthis week, but I will in two
months.
SPEAKER_02 (46:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (46:41):
So it's current season of life.
I give myself a six-month windowbecause that's our rotation,
right?
September is all about theoffice.
We're moving into garage andoutdoor stuff next, and then
better bath and six-monthrotation.
Okay, so if I am working in mycloset, yes, and I have
(47:04):
decluttered everything done.
I put on and I'm like, oh, I'mstill fat, I take it back off,
right?
It's not getting a hanger back,but at that time, September,
I've done my closet.
I'm probably gonna flip on myhangers.
So in six months, if that thingI was about, it does not get to
(47:26):
say again.
A lot of the time, if you're Iwill, especially in monthly
group, we encourage a okay, itcan live here for now for now
being the thing.
It may get an expire box ifyou're emptying the kitchen.
Yeah, you put it in the garage,in the attic, in the trunk of
your car, whatever it is.
And in six months, when you'rechecking back in with that space
(47:50):
and your little bring bringbring goes off, the box has not
been opened.
Guess what you don't need.
SPEAKER_03 (47:57):
Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:58):
So, no, not right.
Well, I'm not using this today,I get to get rid of it.
No, you cannot, but you do haveto recognize and fully
understand your current seasonand space of life.
SPEAKER_01 (48:11):
Yes, I love it because I just got rid of some
shirts for that reason.
Like they were 30 pound agoshirts, and I haven't worn them.
I can't like when I butt theonly good thing about those
shirts is I don't have to ironthem because when I put them on,
I stretch out all the wrinkles,but they're a safety hazard
(48:31):
because a button might pop offand shoot somebody in the eye.
So I put them, I put them at theback of the closet.
I said, Man, I'm gonna focus,I'm gonna work.
It was a few weeks ago.
I'm like, man, I gotta get ridof shirts.
I'm just like, I ain't gonna bethere, and they're like out of
fashion, out of style.
(48:52):
Just get rid of them.
You have more important thingsto focus on.
So I love that.
I thank you for thatexplanation.
Help people kind of understandthat.
So it sounds like I go in therefor a season, yours is six
months, and I imagine that'sthat can vary based on the
person.
Uh then there's a timeout or atrial segment.
Okay, maybe not, but let's justput it over there.
(49:13):
We'll check back in next time onthe next cycle.
And if it's still not relevant,not applicable, whatever, I get
rid of it or not, and put itback into cycle, whatever that
is.
SPEAKER_00 (49:24):
Can I tell you why?
Yes.
That is yes, and it's a big,it's a big why for me.
It's like we talked about early,that mental clutter.
If I go to my closet and I seemy skinny Melissa dress that I'm
gonna get back into one day,every day I see that, I'm like,
that's so fast.
Oh if you would have kept thoseshirts, you'd be like, Oh, maybe
(49:47):
tomorrow.
I'm not working hard enough.
You are working hard enough.
You're in high school anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (49:51):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_00 (49:52):
And it's part of that mental clutter that we're
just issuing on ourselves thatwe don't need.
SPEAKER_01 (49:58):
Got it.
So it's like keeping that isalmost a form of abuse.
Like I'm just flogging myself bykeeping that front and center
that adds to the stress, themental clutter.
SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (50:13):
Damn.
But you're not a therapist.
SPEAKER_00 (50:18):
I don't get paid enough for that.
My rates would be like, phew.
SPEAKER_01 (50:26):
Yeah, yeah.
I know for a fact that thisframework, this thinking is
helpful, but it's like a lot ofthings, kind of like the book
that you referenced earlier.
I knew that was gonna helppeople, just not me.
Oh my goodness.
Okay, so are you ready for thegrand slam closing question,
(50:49):
Miss Melissa?
SPEAKER_00 (50:52):
Okay, so yes.
Because I'm an overthinker, soof course I've been listening,
so I'm like, how can I answerthis correctly?
So I'm ready.
SPEAKER_01 (51:03):
Good, and I know you're ready because I mean, you
just told like your whole storyof getting into organization,
doing one-on-one coaching,helping people in your
community, like it's clear thatyou are here to serve.
And I mean, for real, you'relike enhancing the quality of
life for people, not just thepeople you work with, but the
(51:24):
people in their space.
And so, because of that, I knowyour answer is gonna be badass.
So, here's the question What isthe promise you are intended to
be?
SPEAKER_00 (51:36):
A Disney princess.
SPEAKER_01 (51:40):
Mission accomplished.
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
I could not screw with that.
SPEAKER_02 (51:48):
That was good.
SPEAKER_00 (51:50):
I think, I don't think, I promise to be better
tomorrow than I am yesterday inthe ship that we are.
So we are friends, we areentrepreneurs, we are sometimes
sassastic question, let's risetogether ship.
So I promise to call you out onthe bullshit when you question
(52:15):
yourself to help you grow as anentrepreneur, but also promise
to be an arrow of a friend whenyou need it.
Damn, I promise myself tocontinue working on going to the
grave empty.
I promise my community to meetme where you are, to oh, you
(52:38):
need something that's under 10bucks here.
Oh, you need accountabilityhere.
You need me to understand yoursituation better, I'll get back
with you.
I promise my son that good luck,I'll save some back for your
future therapy.
You are covered in character,but also it's a safe space.
Yeah, I promise my bestie.
(52:59):
Okay, do you need a shovel, afire pit, a ride?
Like what however you need me toshow up, I promise to show up
how you need me to the best ofmy abilities on the day you
call.
SPEAKER_01 (53:13):
Damn, mic drop.
SPEAKER_00 (53:16):
Did you have does that count?
SPEAKER_01 (53:21):
Oh my god, you freaking rocked it, sister.
Well done.
Was this fun, Miss Izzy?
SPEAKER_00 (53:28):
Dude, we always have fun.
SPEAKER_01 (53:30):
I know we do.
SPEAKER_00 (53:31):
You like a brother from another mother?
SPEAKER_01 (53:34):
Yeah, yeah, likewise.
I forgot to ask this, but ifpeople weren't in love with you
before you answered thequestion, there's no doubt
they're gonna say, Man, I gottabe in touch with Melissa.
Where do we send them?
Where's the best place for themto like get in contact with you
and get more of your flavor?
SPEAKER_00 (53:50):
Honestly, the website.
Okay, hopefulsimplicity.com.
It's got links to the socials.
So if you're an Instagram orFacebook person, you can find
them all there.
My email's there, the communityinformation, everything is
there.
SPEAKER_01 (54:04):
10-4.
So hopefulsimplicity.com, folks.
Hit up Melissa because she'sawesome.
And if you know people thatorganization is killing them and
they need some simplicity intheir life, Miss Melissa can
help them out.
Thank you for sticking it outall the way to the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on.
And in appreciation for the giftof time that you have given this
(54:28):
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book, Becoming
the Promise You're Intended toBe.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
There's a link in there.
You just click that button, youcan download the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
(54:52):
would be the ultimate.
You sharing that increases thelikelihood that it's gonna help
one more person.
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be.
Be kind to yourself, be cool,and we'll talk at you next time.
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