Laying the Groundwork: Innovation with Joseph Richards

In this episode of the Learnings and Missteps podcast, host Jesse interviews Joseph Richards, the owner and chief takeoff officer at Flooring Takeoffs. Joseph discusses his unique career path, transitioning from an English teacher to a business owner, and the challenges he faced along the way. He talks about the importance of transparency, learning from mistakes, and the role of AI in the estimating world. The discussion also delves into the value of social media in growing a business, the significance of transferable skills, and the necessity of being able to delegate tasks in order to scale effectively.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview

02:46 Joseph Richards' Journey to Flooring Takeoffs

05:07 Challenges and Learning in the Estimating World

15:18 Starting a Business: Support and Initial Steps

20:31 Delegation and Scaling the Business

28:30 Finding the Right Clients and Staying in Your Lane

34:32 The Struggles and Cycles of Editing

36:30 Teaching vs. Creating: Finding the Balance

39:12 The Importance of Social Media Presence

47:41 Navigating AI in Estimation

56:52 Joseph Richards' Services and Insights

01:00:29 The Promise You Are Intended to Be

Set the stage for an amazing new year with the Self First Framework.

https://calendly.com/jesse04/self-first-webinar

Download a PDF copy of Becoming the Promise You are Intended to Be
https://www.depthbuilder.com/books

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The only people that don't make mistakes are lazy

(00:02):
people and liars, becausethey're either lying that
they've never made a mistake orthey've never tried or attempted
anything of consequence intheir life.
What is going on?
L&m family Back again withanother amazing human being.
He is the owner and chieftakeoff officer at Flooring

(00:27):
Takeoffs and no, we're nottalking about taking off clothes
.
He's also a covert well, maybenot covert, but for me it seems
like he's a little bit of acovert creator, podcaster.
He's got podcast stuff.
He's got a YouTube channel.
He's posting on the LinkedIn.
Mr Joseph Richards.
Like I said, he is the owner ofFlooring Takeoffs.

(00:47):
We're going to get a little bitof insight on the estimating
world and what that thing is andthe unique flavor he brings,
not just to his clients but towhat appears to me, educating
people in general.
Maybe I'm overstepping a littlebit, but we will see.
He will set the record straight.
And before we get to that, ifthis is your first time here,

(01:10):
you are listening to theLearnings and Missteps podcast,
where amazing human beings justlike you are sharing their gifts
and talents to lead this worldbetter than they found it.
Talents to lead this worldbetter than they found it.
I'm Jesse, your selfish servant, and we are about to get to
know Mr Joseph Richards.

(01:30):
Mr Joseph, how you doing, myfriend?
Hey, how are you?
Oh man, can you tell I'm alittle amped up.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
You're always amped up.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
man, I'm jealous of your energy, thank you.
Well, let me just tell you mostpeople, there's like a you've
heard of the circadian rhythm,right, our circadian rhythm when
we sleep, when we don't sleep,there's like a circadian rhythm
of people's appreciation of myenergy, and so six, anytime
between 5am and 9am, very lowappreciation for my energy.

(02:04):
Nine to three I would say it'shigh, and then 3 to 6 it's like
super high because people wantmore energy, and then after 6 pm
again it drops down.
Nobody really appreciated.
And my problem is it's alwaysredlining, spiking I caught you
in a good.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I caught you in a good window then.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, you did.
This is a good time where it'sokay.
I think people can tolerate it.
I won't make you sick.
So I was looking at, of courseI was internet stalking you,
looking at your YouTube channel,the website, your LinkedIn, and
you seem to have a multitude ofskills and interests, Plus
you're engaging and kind of arelaxed cool dude, and interest

(02:48):
plus you're engaging and kind ofa relaxed cool dude.
What's really curious to me iswhat is special about flooring
takeoffs.
How did that capture yourattention?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
that's kind of a long story talking about before.
Like, my path to constructionwas definitely not linear my
background, so I have an englishdegree, so my first job out of
school was teaching.
I did that.
I did a landman.
I was a landman in streetportfor a little while doing oil and
gas.
I worked for a chemical companyfor a little bit.

(03:15):
I had various warehouse jobsall after college and then my
wife and I moved to Austin and Ijust needed the job this
flooring place was hiring.
They're like the way theydescribed it to me was it's kind
of like solving puzzles, doingtakeoff.
I'm like I like puzzles, so Ineed a job.

(03:35):
It sounds like a good fit andthat was 13 years ago, wow.
I've had a couple of detours,but I always just keep coming
back to the takeoffs.
So I finally, about two and ahalf years ago, just embraced it
and kind of went out on my ownand still trucking along and
you're enjoying it Most days.

(03:55):
Yeah, I mean it's a lot.
I mean I kind of have a teamaround me now, but for the first
basically two years it was justme, having no real business
background.
When they have my wife, who's acpa and amazing and, yeah,
business degree and all that andcan help me.
Yeah, yeah, but a lot of it'sjust learning on the fly and

(04:18):
even then I think I gotta hangon things and I start like
hiring people and it's likestarting back from zero, because
what I did when it's just medoesn't necessarily scale.
So I'm constantly learning andrevising and we're going through
it now with our pricing, like Ihad a very specific structure
that worked for me, because Iwork at a certain speed as I add

(04:39):
more people that maybe don'twork the same speed.
It kind of falls apart andthat's something.
And plus, our business is likeso niche, it's hard, there's no
real models.
There's some people out thereand I've met a lot of people
that do this.
Not everyone is as open about,for obvious reasons, what, oh
yeah yeah, what their setup is.
I mean, it's a very competitivepiece of the construction

(05:00):
market.
Yes, a lot of it's just kind offigured out on the fly.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
So oh man, I love that.
So what was it about?
Okay, so we understand, right,the path was teacher.
You got a degree in english,which that's a shocker to me,
but maybe not.
This is kind of the yourearnest way of communicating and
caring yourself makes a littlesense.
I can smell it land man, whichI'm want to.

(05:25):
I'm definitely going to ask youmore about that.
And you were austin.
You took the job because youlike puzzles, which have been
freaking awesome, I mean Ididn't know.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I knew zero about construction, like he mapped out
.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
The gc will send the job out to us and then, so we do
this like a whole pipeline andI'm like, okay, I don't know
what, any of that means.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
But let's do it.
So do this like a wholepipeline and I'm like, okay, I
don't know what any of thatmeans, but let's do it.
So they were willing to trainme and I'm like, okay, this and
honestly, I need a job.
It sounds interesting and Ikind of took to it like it's a
very specific personality.
Agreed, we'll do takeoffs andstick with it, like we.
We've had people I mean, I'vebeen doing it so long but we had

(06:06):
people like coming from thefield and like, oh, I like to
play video games.
I can sit at a computer all day.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
It's not it's not the same.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, they're like send me back, please send me
back to.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
So why isn't it the same?

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I have a gamer, but I imagine because it's not as
constantly engaging, yeah, yeah,and that's it.
It's not stimulating constantly, right?
Oh, it's, we're going throughthe plans, we're digging through
that part.
You have to be engaged.
The clicking is kind of youzone out, to be honest, when

(06:43):
you're drawing stuff out, andthat's the part that most people
hate.
Yes, the clicking is kind ofyou zone out to be honest when
you're drawing stuff out, andthat's the part that most people
hate.
So, yes, that's the laborintensive part of it, that's the
part people don't like to do,and I'm kind of the same way,
but I mean, it's just part ofthe job, so it's work for me.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I could never do that work.
Not because I don't know howyou already we already talked
about my energy Right do thatwork.
Not because I don't know howyou already.
We already talked about myenergy right.
I don't know how to be quietand I don't.
I'm deaf to how loud anddisruptive I am, like, even when
I'm in my most focused zone ofwork.

(07:19):
People around me have told mein the years past they're like
dude, please get the help.
Like you are.
You're freaking monkey, chillout.
What are you talking about?
I'm not even aware of how noisyI am when I'm 100% focused.
It's like I'm noisier thantypical.
Anyways, my great respect forfolks that are in the takeoff
estimating space is I see themas individuals who have a
massive capacity for delayedgratification and an intensely

(07:45):
thick skin in terms ofrecovering from rejection.
How does that land with you?

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yeah, that's fair.
That's really the way you learn.
I mean, like anything else, youlearn by missing things in the
plans.
Yeah, fair or unfair issomething gets missed, no matter
what review steps are in place.
It's who didn't take off.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
yeah, yeah so successful we did it.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
If it's not freaking us.
The burning, yeah, and it justis.
It just kind of is what it is.
So that's part of it and youkind of accept that early on.
Good or bad, it's not for me tosay, but it's just part of it,
and the feedback you get inconstruction is not even
necessarily what they're saying,but how they're saying it a lot
of times so, for me not comingfrom that background, that was a

(08:38):
bit of an adjustment, but Imean I found that if people know
that you care and that you'retrying your best, you can be mad
that I made a mistake, butyou're not going to be mad at me
for not trying.
It's like a learning experience.
I guess, depending on how bigthat mistake was, but as long as
we're not missing wholebuildings or whole floors or

(08:59):
people will work with you.
I mean, you're going to missthings like we do at a certain
volume.
It's unavoidable.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Right.
But I think the key point thereis do you give a damn?
I made a post the other day.
I think it was Craig.
His safety guy out of Canadamade the comment dude.
The only people that don't makemistakes are lazy people and
liars, because they're eitherlying that they've never made a
mistake or they've never triedor attempted anything of

(09:26):
consequence in their life.
But the important thing is thatyou gave it all you had and
that you learned from the thing.
Right, and I think that's whatyou're saying in terms of that
you care like OK, my bad, chalkthat up, this was the lesson
learned, let's go do better.
Kind of back to the video gamething.
The thing about video games isthe feedback loops in those

(09:49):
video games is super tight, likeseconds.
Right, I do an action, I get aninstant feedback saying I did
the right thing or not, and thenI can adjust it.
Now, an estimate, it's not thesame, because you're calculating
, counting.
Then you got to package ittogether and then you got to
mark it up and then you send itto the client or whoever has the

(10:11):
request and then they, like Idon't know, help me understand
this.
Once they review it, they willeither accept it, that's
feedback.
But there's days, weeks, monthsbetween all the work and the
actual feedback.
And if they don't accept it, Idon't know, do they give you

(10:34):
like actionable feedback interms of why they didn't accept
it, or is it just sorry, we'renot taking it, we're going with
somebody else?

Speaker 2 (10:42):
So for that, I mean we don't submit, submit the bid,
so I'm not on that end ofthings, but I mean there's.
So part of it is it's reallydelayed feedback anyways,
because there's a lot of stepsbetween us and it's the middle
and there's a lot of extra datathat's going in there.
So it may not be necessarily ournumbers were off.
It may be, but it could be.
We were priced out of theirprice, out of that job, got it.

(11:04):
It didn't matter what thenumbers were in the first place.
You're not going to get thatjob.
Usually, if I don't hearanything, I just assume that
we're doing okay, which is thebest.
I would rather have something,some kind of targeted feedback.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
But right, if clients aren't calling, yelling at me
or sending me frantic emails,then I assume we're doing okay I
want to to give the LNM familymember shout out to Mr Tanner
Heidly, who connected with me onthe Facebook.
He left this review.
It's my first ever review onFacebook.
I was like super, super excited.

(11:37):
He says an industryprofessional that has concise
delivery of his message.
This review is to give him mysupport.
And Tanner I actually got tohave a conversation with him.
We're going to have somefollow-up conversations.
He's in the welding field.
He's now teaching at a weldingschool.
Super awesome guy, superprepared.

(11:59):
Anyways, tanner, thank you somuch, man, for taking the time
to do that and for consuming thecontent, because most of that
stuff is focused on formingstuff and kind of field
leadership things.
And finally, somebody said hey,I like this stuff.
And so, folks, for the rest ofyou L&M family members out there
, whenever you send me a DM, amessage, a review, even a share,

(12:22):
like, I love to know about itbecause, one, I know somebody's
listening and two, it gives methe opportunity to shout you out
in the future.
So please do that.
Yeah, so massive discipline,that's what I'm hearing.
You have massive disciplinebecause you don't have a lot of
rich actionable, or you don'tget a lot of rich Because you
don't have a lot of richactionable, or you don't get a

(12:44):
lot of rich actionable feedback,and so you just, okay, we're
going to do the takeoff.
This is our system, this is ourprocess, this is how we do it.
Let's keep doing that.
And then, based on hit ratioand returning customers, that's
the indicator.
And man, that ain't easy.
So that trait.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
I'm going to call it a trait.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
How did you develop that?

Speaker 2 (13:10):
I'm just very, I'm very like, stubborn, which makes
me, you know, can see thisthrough, but maybe not the
greatest employee on the otheron the flip side.
So that was another reason formy transition.
I mean, growing up I was alwaysinto sports, pretty much all I
did.
I mean you kind of have todevelop a certain amount of grit
to get through that good.

(13:30):
I mean, with anything reallythat sports, you get that
instant feedback a lot of timesyeah I don't know if we just
I've just always been verystubborn and my my hobbies, for
the most part, have been prettydetail-oriented things.
Oh, like what?
It's just kind of what I like.
Like I've always been big intoreading, like I did before we

(13:51):
started having kids, I didstencil art.
Oh, it's probably the easiestway.
So it's like banksy andshepherd fairy are like the two
most famous in the world.
Yeah, but the way that is, it'sbasically you print out the
negative of an image and take anexacto knife and you cut it out
by hand and it can be asdetailed as you want, and I

(14:12):
probably have some pictures Ican send you.
It's really hard to explain,kind of.
But I mean, you can spend hoursjust like cutting it's
basically just cutting holes inpaper and you can hours and days
and weeks just cutting onepiece and then you spray paint
it and you throw it away andthen you move on to the next one
.
And it sounds ridiculous,doesn't it's like?
Why would it?
yeah, well it's a ridiculoushobby and I loved it.

(14:33):
I did it for years.
I just didn't have that freetime anymore once we started
having kids, but sure stuff likeyou know I'm good with delayed
gratification for the most part.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
That's amazing, amazing man, and I'll say that's
a massive superpower.
Professionally, personally, Imean, I'm nowhere near the to
the degree that you are, but Ihave increased my tolerance and
the more I increase it as, ohwow, like I make better
decisions and like I give thingstime to breathe and grow, oh

(15:03):
shit, I could have.
Why didn't I do that before?
Anyways, all right, so you kindof have this makeup that the
work was well suited for you.
You were working for thiscompany and then you decided to
start your own business.
What was the trigger?

Speaker 2 (15:24):
What was the signal that you saw that you said, ok,
I just need to go do this on myown.
So when I worked there, weactually used another service
that did it and they were likesuper, they're still around,
they're gigantic, but they werekind of really early in in that
space.
Ah, and we used them and it wasbefore, like you didn't have
teams, you didn't have zoom yepso it was a great concept.

(15:44):
It made total sense.
Like we couldn't find anestimator.
This was probably I don't knoweight years ago at this point.
Yeah, we couldn't find anybodylocal Like there's two of us,
we're overwhelmed, we're workingday and night and we're not
keeping up with the big calendar.
And so they came in and it wasgreat, but just the tools
weren't there to make itseamless.
Like it's all phone calls.

(16:06):
We can't screens.
We're doing email Well, all thethings I hate.
We're doing that to communicateand it's just you do the best
with the tools that you have.
At that point, but it wasalways in the back of my head
because I talked to one of theguys and like this is also a
problem with the market being sosaturated.
The startup for this isbasically a problem with the
market being so saturated.
The startup for this isbasically nothing.
You have a laptop and you canafford the software.

(16:28):
I mean, you're in.
There's no, there's really nooverhead.
It's just always in the back ofmy head and I kept talking
about it and talking about it ifI'm out.
My wife was like, well, just godo it already oh nice.
So you had some work yeah, she's, yeah, I would have.
Just I would have bitched aboutit for the rest of my life if
she had not to go do it.

(16:48):
She got tired of hearing it andit was most things.
She was right.
So it's working out.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah, oh, ok, I love that.
I mean, I think that I want tosay this you don't have to be
married to have support, buthaving support is ultra awesome,
right, I think it kind of.
I think you had a leg up interms of practical, practical
approach to starting yourbusiness.
Cause I did, I'm like I'm goingto quit my job and I didn't

(17:16):
have a plan.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Really I was like, well, really Okay, I went and
told her.
I was like hey, I went in andquit my job.
Really, I didn't think you weregoing to do it today.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
So Was it one of those you?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
said yeah, it was I love it.
But because I went to a smallbusiness development council
here they do kind of like freeadvice for people starting
businesses, and yeah, they werelike, well, a whole list of
things, like, do you have any ofthis?
I, and yeah, they were like,well, a whole list of things,
like, do you have any of this?
I was like, no, I don't haveany of this.
I didn't know any of this thatI needed to do.
So there was a lot.
I mean, I gave them a longnotice, maybe a couple of months

(17:52):
, because the handoffs and yeah.
Yeah, we had some people out onvacation and stuff and I was
pretty generous with my notice,but there was a lot to get ready
to be like legit.
I got to file for my licensewith the state and stuff and
then I have to get.
I ended up getting like aregistered agent to handle all
the paperwork and I got to findinsurance, which took me months

(18:15):
and months because nobody knewwhat I was talking about.
Yeah, it was the hardest thingI've done, oh, yeah, and so I
called I don't know how manypeople and I ended up finally
just calling an architect herein town because it's similar,
see errors and omissions.
I'm like, please tell me whoyou guys use so I can do this.
Yeah, forever, because nobodyknows what I'm talking about.

(18:36):
So they don't call me back,which I get.
They got plenty of business.
This custom policy for this oneperson business hasn't even
started yet.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
No, thank you Right.
They don't know what the riskis, any of that.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Yes, that was probably the hardest thing was
figuring that out.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Wow, oh man, okay, so since starting, so you've been
in business.
What a few years now.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
About two and a half yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Two and a half.
Oh man, this is fresh.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I love it.
What have you learned aboutyourself since starting your
business?
That I am way more particularabout how things are done than I
thought.
Ah I see like other people dothem and not that they're wrong.
Like you could be good work,but I just the way I like sounds
so ridiculous.
Just the way I like mymaterials ordered on my takeoff.
I'm very particular about it.

(19:32):
Yeah, so when I see somebodyjust go like alphabetically and
then it's the carpet and thetile and everything's all mixed
together, it drives me nuts oh,so you categorize it like all
the carpets, all the tiles, whenI'm going back a job like.
I don't want to scroll throughthe whole list.
I want to know this is a carpet.
I need to go to this section orwhatever.
So I recoded our whole database, so now we can just order it

(19:53):
all the same.
Yeah, it just started with Nets, and then also, I'm not great
at delegating, ooh.
That is definitely something,especially as we grow.
I'm having to let go of morethings.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Which is kind of hard .
So I like doing the estimatingpart, but it's also I don't
scale doing that, because that'sthe time consuming part.
Yes, I do so many takeoffs andI would love to be involved in
more of them, but I just can'tat a certain point.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah, okay, let's.
I'm going to dive there becauseI want to say exactly why I
think people have a skewedunderstanding of delegating.
What I've experienced is peopledumping a hot bag of poo on my
desk and calling it delegating.

(20:49):
Oh shit, I'm behind here, jesse, you do it, I'm delegating to
whatever.
That's not delegation man, andso I think a lot of people you
don't have to run a business tounderstand or do it wrong.
Right, you can be a manager oreven just a crew leader or a
peer.
And so when you think aboutdelegating, how do you think

(21:12):
about that?
What, maybe criteria, or whatare the signals, the signs that
this should be handed off?
What's the purpose?
What is it in your brain whenyou think of delegating?
What does that mean?

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Really the hardest part is finding out what I'm
comfortable handing off and whatthat whole workflow looks like.
So I we just started with a VAlast month.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
And that has been I apologize to your last week.
I'm so sorry I haven't givenyou hardly anything to do
because I'm really strugglingbasically figuring out what to
let go of.
Like I know it takes up my timeduring the day, but I'm also
like, how critical is this to myday, cause, like at this point,
it's all just a part of my day,right, it's just my.

(21:57):
Is this something thateverything's going to fall apart
if I move it from my list toher list?
Or is it nothing?
And I should have done this sixmonths ago.
Yep, so that's where I'm atright now and that's been a
struggle really just figuringout, like what, the critical
parts of the workflow, because alot of time, for the longest
time it's just in my head, right, yes, it's just me, let's do it

(22:18):
Now.
There's like five of us kind ofWow.
It's so I have, I have onein-house guy and then I have a
couple of contractors to help uslike the tracing part of it,
just if we can't keep up withthat right, and then I have an
estimator contractor that helpswith overflow.
We just get hammered.
Yeah, for the most part.

(22:39):
I mean like 90 is like me andhim still doing the actual
takeoffs.
So that's been, that's.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
My current struggle is, yeah, now what I can let go
and being able to be okay withit oh, man, man, let's talk
about this VA thing, cause Ijust recently acquired VA
service executive assistantthink we're three or four months
in and I'm going to tell youlike she has brought enormous

(23:05):
relief to my life.
But the reason I took me solong to make the decision, well,
one, cause I'm cheap, but twois, like, how do I articulate
what I need, what to hand off?
Like I had an idea of what Iwanted to hand off which ended
up not being what I've handedoff yet and I'll get to that.

(23:26):
But how do I tell her or him atthe point I didn't know it was
going to be a here or she?
Well, like, how do I tell heror him?
At the point I didn't know itwas going to be a he or a she?
Well, like, how do I tell them?
So this is what I did.
I made a list of all the thingsthat I did on a weekly basis,
like, what are the things that Ido every single week period?
And when I made that list, I'mlike because my biggest fear was

(23:50):
and you said it was not keepingthem busy, right, like just or
maybe I shouldn't even say busynot helping them be productive,
and not because of the cost butbecause I don't want to waste
their time.
And so I'm like, man, what do Igive them?
And one of the things that I doevery single week.
And I made a big old list andthen I'm like, oh, there's some

(24:12):
things in there that are easyfor me to articulate the steps
right and maybe map out theprocess which ended up being the
production of the podcast,which the and that's why I say
that she brought so much reliefbecause the process is I do the
interview and then I send it todude on style, they do the
editing and then at the time Iwould then get it, would.

(24:36):
I was the bottleneck, becausethen I had to do the finishing
touches and create the thumbnailand do the description and
upload it into all the steps,and I always had to negotiate or
make a decision Am I going togo to sleep early or am I going
to process the podcast?
I got a couple of flights thisweek.
I'm probably not going tolaunch, release the podcast
episode that I want to.
So it was.
I was like you know what I canbuild the skill of mapping out

(24:59):
what the process is with thepodcast.
It's a low risk thing.
It's a, it's consistent work,and so we started there and I
talked her through it and it'sbrilliant, she's okay.
Jess, can you record yourselfgoing through all those steps,
because they had to go from thisto the script, to YouTube, to
Buzzsprout, and I was like dude,I could record myself.

(25:21):
She said if you do that, thatwould help me tremendously.
I'm like no problem.
So I did and boom, that was thelast time we talked about it
and so then it became okay, whatare the other things that I do
on a high frequency, that I canrecord myself doing, that I can
give to her and then flesh thatout.

(25:43):
Now back to the idea ofdelegating.
I think of it from twoperspectives.
Or attempted business owner iswhat are the things that only I
can do right now?
That's where I need to spend mytime when.

(26:03):
What are the things that otherhuman beings can do?
Those are the things I need tofigure out what to delegate, to
hand off to somebody else, and,of course, letting go is
difficult.
Now, as a manager, leader ofpeople, I think of it a little
bit differently.
I think of it who do I want tobuild capability in?
Who do I want to invest andgrow so that they can grow their

(26:23):
career, et cetera, and what arethe additional responsibilities
I can give to them that willhelp them build some more skill
sets and some more capability?
What do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (26:35):
No, that makes sense to me.
It's.
That's what I did this week.
Actually, I we had our weeklycall and I was trying to
describe something to her andI'm just kind of thinking out
loud and I finally just did aloom video and this is what I'm
thinking, this is what is in myhead.
Watch this.
If you have better ideas, tellme.
Like I'm not married to this,this is just what I'm thinking

(26:55):
could work.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
And let's go from there.
So that's, I mean I use and Idon't know why I didn't do that
before Like I use Loom forclients a lot, like especially
our first couple of jobs.
I like do a review of the joband I send it along with the
deliverables.
I'm like this is what I'm doing, this is why I did it, cause
that's where I get in trouble,and especially stuff that's

(27:17):
quick turnaround the first yearor so, like I don't want to say
no to anything.
Oh, yeah, you get in trouble acouple of times and it's it's my
fault for rushing the orskipping entirely the onboarding
process and be like, oh, thisis a job process.
And be like, oh, this is a job,this is money.
I should say yes and I do it,and then nobody's happy, like
I'm not happy having to thequick turnaround and not doing
my normal process.

(27:37):
Yeah, just stuff like that.
Now that makes a lot of sense.
And it, yeah, it has to change,as I'm kind of transitioning
more to the manager than theestimator.
Yes, it's going to be a much,much harder thing for me to let
go of, but at a certain point,hopefully, I mean it'd be a good
.
It'll be a good day, though,when that happens, because that
means we're successful enough.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
We're busy enough that I have to focus on stuff
yeah I don't know if you've readit and it's got some really
good tactical things to do forentrepreneurs people that are

(28:19):
starting their own business.
That'll shift the way you thinkabout things, just enough to
take action and say, oh, I coulddo more of this.
It's had a massive impact on me.
Now you mentioned taking workthat maybe wasn't optimal.
We'll say that right.
Or working with clients thatweren't optimal, or taking work

(28:40):
that wasn't optimal, and we alsotalked a little bit about
scaling.
What are some things people,aspiring business owners,
startup folks what do they needto be thinking about or looking
for when it comes to optimalclientele and this idea of
scaling?

Speaker 2 (28:59):
I mean and I heard you say this yesterday on the
webinar with Samantha Everyonewill tell you to build like an
ideal client profile and kind ofhave that in your head when
somebody comes to you.
But it's, you know when you'refirst starting it's hard.
You don't have the same kind oflee that in your head.
So when somebody comes to youbut it's, you know when you're
first starting it's hard.
Like you, really you don't havethe same kind of leeway to say

(29:19):
no, like even now, like I don'twant to tell people no.
But you know, I've referredpeople to other services.
I thought maybe a better fit.
Or I had a client that weworked together a few months and
I'm like this is not really.
They were wanting stuff outsidemy scope.
I'm like this is really justnot.
This is not going to end wellto keep going down this road.
So I referred them out toanother service.

(29:39):
So, it's hard.
But yeah, you kind of got topick your scope and kind of got
to stick to it.
Stick to what you'recomfortable with.
If you're really comfortableexpanding your scope, then I say
go for it.
If you're doing it just becauseyou don't want them to go
somewhere else, it's probablynot going to end well, but
that's.
It's really hard to stick tothat in the first until you get
some traction.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Especially that was my one regret is not like, and
plus I was working in a jobalready where everyone's kind of
in the same circle.
It's a small network, so Ididn't want to be like you know
disrespectful about it.
Hey, I'm leaving, I'm going tostart my own, but at the least
connected with more people onlinkedin before I left, like

(30:23):
because doing it after has beenso much harder yes because they
see my title and they're like Iget a million of you a day in my
DMs in my inbox and I don'tpitch people on there, I don't
cold email people, but I get it.
I'm in that market and I'mlumped in whether I like it or
not.
So I would say doing that mayhelp you avoid having to make

(30:46):
those decisions or makingdecisions so hard early on.
That's my big regret of notdoing that before.
I like just jumped in, likewe'll figure it out.
We're gonna have to dive intothat.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Your question at all, but that's just kind of.
You know you did 100.
Don't go outside your comfortzone.
You know your strengths, youknow the value that you bring.
Avoid going outside of thoseboundaries.
Let them be the bumpers on thebowling lane, because but in
your first year that's verydifficult because you got to

(31:17):
make some money and I honestlybelieve it's just one of those
lessons that we have to likeactually live.
Doing work that's way beyondour expertise and working with
people that were, we got thatinitial gut feeling of, ooh, I
don't know about this, we got tolearn.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Those are usually not wrong.
Your first conversation withsomebody is off.
That usually doesn't get better, so, or it's just a personality
, you just don't click.
It's hard in the moment, but Imean, there's so many companies
out there you can find anotherone.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
You can recover.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Again, it's hard in the moment to be like this is
not a great fit, it's not gonnaI'll get money like this month,
but it's just gonna be problemsdown the road.
Yeah, but I mean I get it.
It's hard but it's.
We've been really good aboutstaying in our scope.
Like we're just division nine,we just use one software.
We're very even in a very nichemarket, but I think that helps

(32:12):
us.
So people generally find uswe're kind of exactly what they
need.
If they use a differentsoftware, I just send them
somewhere else.
I'm like this is just not, it'snot a good fit.
I'm not going to learn thatsoftware.
I'm not going to be as good Likemy people are going to be as
good on that as we are with thissoftware, and I'll refer you to
somebody else.
I have no problem, yeah mansomewhere.

(32:36):
So just the cost of me, likebeing half as good at some other
software, I'm not going to behappy.
Personally, not being as goodwith it, they're probably not
going to be happy with it, soit's just not.
Yeah, I decided that early onthough this is our lane and,
like we did some experimentswith residential, I was like
early on, didn't work out, it'sa whole different animal from

(32:59):
commercial, and I was like we'renot doing that anymore.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
So, yeah, we're very much in our lane and I've been
pretty protective of that forthe past year, especially good,
good yeah, I think if I and Ihaven't mapped it out, but if if
I did getting clear I love theway you say it getting clear
about what my lane is, gettingclear about that helped me
understand the characteristicsof the best client for me to

(33:26):
serve, like it wasn't the otherway around.
It wasn't identifying theclient and then understanding
the service.
It was really understandingwhat is my lane.
What do people appreciate aboutme the most?
Where I have and provide thedeepest impact or value.
And then it's okay, this is it.
What are all the people thatare asking for that?
Ah, okay, now I got it.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
So that helped me lean into the YouTube,
especially Since that's what wefocus on.
I can kind of go deep on that.
Yes, I've started like tryingto branch out to do more general
estimating, like reading plans,videos, but a lot of them are
measure square, specific, thatare kind of deep dives on
different features.
But being so focused on thatkind of allows me to do that.

(34:09):
If I'm spread across three orfour platforms, I'm not really
adding any value to what'salready on youtube.
So I feel I feel good aboutwhat I'm putting out now.
And same thing like with thepodcast, like I intended for
that to be like a weekly thing,yeah, but then I became the
bottleneck and I'm like am Igoing to sit and edit this and
put my stupid memes in here foran hour or am I gonna go do

(34:31):
something else and then I justso?
But that's the only way I canget to.
The editing is to.
That's the only part that makesit fun for me is to put those
in there.
Yeah, yeah, because otherwiseI'm like this is the only thing
ever.
Yeah, so definitely right.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
So so what's my opinion on editing?
Do you like it?
I don't like it, oh yeah, no,here's the way I kind of
function.
I like everything at first forabout 30 to 60 days and then I
get tired of stuff.
So, like editing when I started, man, when I started the
podcast, I was using Hindenburgto edit, which was only waveform

(35:10):
and it sucks so bad.
But, man, I just loved figuringit out, clicking and tinkering
and stuff.
Now I use the script and thenit's like, oh my god, this is so
awesome, it does all thesethings.
And then I'm like, okay, I'mtired of it.
Like I got it facebook ads inmarch I started, like I said, I
decided I want to learn if Ilike Facebook ads and if they're

(35:31):
a valuable resource.
And, man, oh my God, it's hadme consumed for about six months
, which is three months longerthan I planned.
And now I mean just recentlyI'm like, okay, I'm tired of it.
Yes, I want to do more of it,but I don't want to do the
button clicking anymore.
That sucks, let me get somebodyelse to do that.
And so that's kind of my cycleof I want to learn something and

(35:53):
then, once I get comfortablewith it.
It's okay, I want to learnsomething else.
Somebody has to do this now.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
I used Audacity when I did my podcast.
So this my daughter was born,so this was like eight years ago
.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Oh, you're an og in the podcast space yeah, I only
did it for a year.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
I did a little of them.
I did like one a month.
But it was the editing wasdeath.
I hated it.
It's horrible they didn't haveall this cool stuff like they
have now like descriptive oh manyeah but it was like very same
as like the way it was verymanual and I'm no, no fun, no
fun.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Okay, so we mentioned podcasting, youtube linkedin.
So I have one question.
I want to go a little deeper interms of the business value of
social media, but first I wantto start with would you consider
yourself a teacher or a creatorwhen it comes to, like your,
the stuff you put out on thesocial internet omniverse?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I focus more on the teaching.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I guess they kind of go hand in hand.
But that's part of it.
I mean, it's not entirelyaltruistic, obviously.
It's like marketing for me.
Sure, I also do enjoy it.
I also enjoy the teaching.
Like people email like hey, Ican't figure this out,

(37:28):
no-transcript, nice.
Teaching him how to use thesoftware, nice.
So I actually really enjoy that.
Creator, I guess.
Yeah, it's all kind of lumpedtogether at this point, but I
look at it more as educational.
But it is.
I don't in that space, in thisspace, nobody else is doing that
.
So that was my initial thought.
Yes, it's something adifferentiator?
hell yes, there's very, becausewe're all basically the same

(37:48):
service, so there's got to belike little variations and that
just puts my name out there alittle bit more.
I need to do a better job ofthe guy that emailed me, saw the
videos, but he didn't know wewere an actual takeoff service,
so I need to do a better job ofexplaining that.
But it's also I'm not great atselling.

(38:10):
I have discovered so even onLinkedIn.
My wife's always you gotta ask,you gotta ask for the sale, you
gotta.
And I just kind of feels gross,like I even but even if it's
just one post a month, justneeds to be, as we do.
I just can't get over it.
It's just like a mental thingand I just it's probably just
because I see it all day and I'mlike I don't want to just add

(38:32):
to that noise, but it's also I'mprobably leaving clients on the
table because they're just likethis guy.
He's watched all my videos.
He has no idea.
This is what our business is.
I'm like that's a.
It's a massive failure on mypart to have this audience,
however small it may be, goingthrough all 20, whatever videos
and has no idea that this is theservice we provide.

(38:53):
He just thought I was like somerandom dude that really liked
Metro Square.
That's hilarious, but if he hadnever said that, I never would
have.
I just assume it's our name,like people are going to know
what we do, but you know, that'snot always the case.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
No, a hundred percent%.
It's funny, I've had thispodcast for I think five years
now, since COVID, and there'spersonal friends that I've known
since middle school that arelike, do you have a podcast?
And I post like crazy, right, Imean, from my perspective, I
post a lot.
So I completely appreciate theooh, it feels stinky and icky

(39:33):
and I also know that I mean hell.
I post daily about the podcastand people still don't know that
I have a podcast.
So that gives me some comfortin terms of being more overt
about whatever it is Now it'smore like what's?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
what's that in my head?
I feel like everybody sees itevery day like what I post,
which is not true.
It is not true.
That's.
Another lesson I've learned isI was kind of hesitant to make
all these changes.
I'm like, oh it's stupid, Ijust did this, now I'm gonna
change it.
And I'm finally like nobody'sreally paying attention to you
nope, that's true, you're notnearly as important as you think
.
You are on the internet.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
That was just like a mental block.
Just assume it's there andpeople are seeing it and they're
probably not, probably have noidea that you did something
totally different last week 100%and every now and then somebody
does notice and that's likeultimate for me.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Hey, I saw you changing.
Oh man, you noticed.
It's exciting because you don'tget that kind of feedback Now
on the idea of they're notobsessing about your content as
much as you are.
You think they're seeing itevery single day.
The reality is they're not andthe value I mean you made this

(40:49):
point earlier about you you wishyou would have been more active
on LinkedIn before you startedthe business.
Why?
What has LinkedIn provided youor benefited you and why would
it have been different had youstarted sooner?

Speaker 2 (41:08):
I feel like you're just having that network going
in accelerated things a littlebit.
I knew it was a crowded space,but I say this ironically
underestimated how manycompanies are doing this and
like how much noise there is tocut through and I'd always heard
this.
But like, referrals have beenour biggest source of good
clients.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
And just having that, whether it's even they just see
it on there, we're alreadyconnected.
They say, hey, I know a guy,just having that introduction
makes a huge difference.
Yeah, so, and I didn't.
I didn't even think about it.
I didn't really use LinkedInuntil I did this, which is
another part.
You see, somebody just hops on,they start posting all the time
trying.
It's kind of a red flag alittle bit, but I just didn't

(41:50):
think about it before I started.
I'm like people will find me,they'll find me on the internet
somehow, but it didn't work thatway.
So really this year I've startedgoing to some in-person
conferences.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
So that I think that is kind of an advantage I need
to lean into since I'm here.
Yes, so I went to, I went to, Iwent to surfaces in vegas, oh
nice, yeah, that was a littlemuch, that was a little
overwhelming, um, but I went toan in-person one earlier this
year and we're going to anotherone next month, so nice yeah I
know what I've started goinginto just making those

(42:25):
connections.
Then I can come back tolinkedin and connect and then
it's a different connection.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Yeah, yeah definitely my similar, same right.
Like, the only reason I gotactive on LinkedIn was because I
didn't get a million downloadson my first podcast episode.
And I still haven't hit amillion downloads.
Anyways, started the podcastand I'm a month in and it was
abysmal.
I'm like, so I started kind ofdoing YouTube research, right,

(42:50):
oh, you got to market it.
I'm like, what do you mean?
You got to?
Oh, okay.
And back then I said, okay,here's what I'm going to do.
I'm cause I was alreadyreleasing an episode twice, like
every other week, which waslike monumental to me.
Right, that's too much in myhead.
It was too much.
People are going to getexhausted.
So what I'm going to do is I'llmake a post on the off weeks
when I'm not releasing like onepost.

(43:12):
So it was two posts a month andI thought that was just it
seems like a lot right.
Yeah.
And I'm like, okay, crap,that's not working.
Okay, let me do one a week.
Okay, that's a little bitbetter.
And so, little by little,because and here's if it wasn't
for the guests that I wasinterviewing, I would not have

(43:34):
started marketing, right, Iwanted people to hear the
stories of the freaking peoplethat I'm interviewing, because
they're beautiful stories andthat was my motivation.
So then all of a sudden I waslike, oh, people started
reaching out for services andI'm like, man, I got, I got a
job.
At the time I wasn't eventhinking about that, but it

(43:55):
happened enough times.
I'm like, oh shit, okay.
And so then I started using mypersonal profile.
I started posting a little bitmore, just a little bit once a
week, and I still had a jobAfter I quit.
It wasn't until maybe 18 monthsago where I started posting

(44:15):
daily.
It took a long time on mypersonal profile.
All that to say that I'm withyou on that.
It was difficult.
I should have started sooner.
And so folks, l&m, family outthere, if you have a little side
gig or you're starting abusiness, I know how
uncomfortable it is.
Joseph agrees, but telleverybody you know, you got to

(44:39):
let them know and you got to letthem know 3000 times so that
they can remember.
I know it now in hindsight is,even if you're an employee and
you intend to be an employee,you don't want to start your own
business.
You're happy with the work youdo, the people you work with.
Being visible on LinkedIn andthe other socials as well but I

(45:05):
favor LinkedIn, but beingvisible on LinkedIn will
increase your stock value, likeyour personal stock value within
your organization, within yourindustry or the market segment
that you play in, just by simplyposting, and that is not a bad
thing and it sets the stage forbigger, greater opportunities

(45:31):
that you can't even imagine.
I'll give you an example.
I was just oh man, I don't haveit.
Tadson Robert, they published abook and I'm in the book.
There's one.
I got a like a chapter.
Never in my life did I think Iwould be included.
I've been included in a fewbooks, right, and I'm like I was
just thinking about it becausethey sent me a copy of the book.
And I'm like I was justthinking about it because they

(45:53):
sent me a copy of the book andI'm like this is like I never,
but it's a result of me beingvisible on social media.
It's not because I'm somecredentialed smart guy, it's
just because people see me andthey say, hey, this dummy might
be entertaining, let's talk tohim.
And then they put me in thething, which I again the total
privilege that I would havemissed had I not been visible on
social media, that I would havemissed had I not been visible

(46:14):
on social media.
And again, like you said, itwill salt or chum the waters in
the event you were to start yourown business or start your own
little side gig.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
You agree with that?
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, even I had a companyreach out a few weeks ago like a
software company that seen oneof my videos when we set up a
call and I'm like, hey, wouldyou maybe be interested in a
partnership, Like stuff likethat.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
And I'm like this is ridiculous, like why wouldn't I
just do this every day?
Like my wife did it every dayfor two years.
She started her business.
We started about time.
She's a.
She's a crazy person and did itevery day for two years and but
I mean, it's a's a hugedifference.
I'm just like I just mentally Ijust couldn't get over it.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
It's tough.
Get it, man, I get it, butyou're doing I mean, here's the
thing you are doing it you postwith some regular frequency on
LinkedIn.
You post with the regularfrequency on YouTube, like
you're doing.
I mean, hell, I'm sure you'veheard the statistics right Less
than 1% of people that have aLinkedIn account actually post

(47:14):
content.
So that dynamic of I'm scared,like whatever that is, the
majority are there.
It's the psychos like me thatare like.
That's the problem.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
That's the problem.
It's like the constructionbubble that I'm in.
It's people like you and Mattthat are killing it posting all
the time.
I'm like, okay, I'll do my onepost a week, that's it right.
Just start with these guys.
Yeah, but yeah.
So that's part of it seeingwhat you guys are doing.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Oh man, I love it.
Okay, I got one question aboutAI and estimating, and then
we'll go into the Grand Slamquestion.
So what do you think about AIin integrating with estimation
takeoffs?
Are you like for it, against it?
Do you have any experience withthis?

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yes, I've been tracking it because it's coming.
It's not there yet.
Like it's, I have asubscription to one.
I've had it for a year and ahalf.
I just want it to automate theclicking.
Me personally, I still want todo the takeoff.
Yeah, I just don't want toclick, so I don't.
Some of the bigger ones likethey can take off everything in

(48:21):
10 seconds.
I don't want that personally, Iwant to be able to draw all the
rooms.
Save me that, and then I canstill do my process.
So I don't know how many peoplefeel like me.
And it's coming.
I have no idea what thetimeline is.
It's, yeah, kind of just thesimple things that I would like
it to do.
It just can't do because justthe variability between pdfs

(48:44):
apparently is a lot for them tohandle um because, even so, when
I do multi-family jobs, likethe matrix is wrong most of the
time you have to go through andcount them manually.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
I asked one of the companies.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
I was like can you just do this?
Can it do this?
Can it go through and count theunits and give me a matrix?
And they're like no.
And I'm like, okay, well, thankyou.
But thank you bye yeah, it'sgetting better all the time.
That's part of I'm not superworried, but I also feel like
takeoffs are already viewed as acommodity and they're only

(49:17):
going to get cheaper.
Adopting that so for us I'mtrying to find other sources of
income, get into consulting,more consulting, training, stuff
like that because I see a daywhere the takeoffs is not going
to be our main source, becauseI'm just not.
I just won't be able to competewith those prices.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yeah, you dropping the bottom out because of
whatever.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
It's already.
Yeah, Pricing is already a.
It's hard for me to compete on.
And then if you just add an AIon top of that and it's usable,
it's going to be tough.
It's going to be tough, it'sgoing to be a tough sell.
But you know that I work withpeople that don't use any
software at all and they're notgoing to make the jump to AI.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Right, not this decade, hell no.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
There's probably still enough companies that we
could just do what we're doingand maybe that caps our growth.
But that's fine, I don't wantto be around with it.

(50:18):
Well, we can't do this, can'tdo this.
And if it's not doing that, onflooring, I mean flooring like
the soft good side is kind ofcut and dry, but tile is really
detailed, a lot of stuff to look.
There's a lot of pieces to pickup, so it's not close to being
able to do all that.
So I still got some time butyeah, but I know it's coming.
You know this probably better mefrom who you talk to, just the

(50:40):
way I see people talk about iton top of how everyone talks
about we don't have enoughpeople doing this.
I do wonder if that's going tokeep people from getting into
this.
Like we're going to use ai toautomate the junior test instead
of teaching somebody, yeah, todo that.
So part of me worries thatthere's just going to be a
bigger shortage down the roadbecause we're not going to

(51:03):
invest in those people to learnthat way and I don't think then
learning it on ai is superhelpful, like my guy.
So I met, I went and talked toa high school class last year
and he was one of the kids inthe class ah, help with him.
And finally just brought him onthe summer.
Hey, let's just do this five,ten hours a week, whatever you
got, and I'm teaching him, likefrom bottom, like, how to do

(51:24):
that.
We're gonna learn how to readplans.
Yeah, just go teach any othernew estimator.
So part of me worries like thatstep will be skipped If you just
teach them.
Well, they can review the AItakeoff, but they don't know
what they're looking at.
Like he's tracing the plans,but he doesn't know how to read
the plans.
So is this a wall?
Is this a column?
Do I need to go around here?
What does this mean?
I feel like a lot of that isgoing to get lost at a certain

(51:48):
point.
So I don't know what you'rehearing from people and I'm just
in my little closet office withmy deep thoughts, so I don't
know what the actual worldthinks about that, but that's
just one of the things that Ithink about.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, I think that the observation that people are
going to like the transfer ofexperience and knowledge, like
the foundational knowledgethat's necessary to make like
really good decisions or avoidreally big problems it is being
diluted because people arerelying so heavily on automating

(52:22):
whatever the hell they do whichI get, I totally, because I'm
trying to automate as much as Ican.
Also.
Now, I think the problem for meand this is again a Jesse-ism,
right the problem, I think, isthe technology that we really
need to master is listening andconnecting and communicating

(52:45):
with other human beings.
Right, we suck at that and wethink this digital technology is
going to fix that, and it's not.
I don't think it is.
So I'll just say that.
Now I also want to add to yourpoint If you're on LinkedIn, of
course you're going to feelanxious about not being an AI
master other thing.

(53:14):
But outside of LinkedIn, themajority of the people that I
talk to that are veryaccomplished professionals.
They could give a shit about AI, right, like the people that
use it are mostly, generallyspeaking, are kind of just using
it to answer questions faster,to do a little bit of research
faster.
And now we'll just look insidethe construction industry the
big giant, massive companies.
Of course, they got R&Ddepartments and whatever, and so

(53:36):
they're going down that lane.
But those big, giganticbehemoth companies are not the
majority in our industry.
The majority are $50 to $100million a year of revenue and
they have 10 to 15 peopleworking for that of Revenant,
and they have 10 to 15 peopleworking for that.

(53:56):
Those people very few of themare on the AI kick.
So the urgency is fabricatedspecifically in our industry.
Will it accelerate things?
Absolutely?
Will it develop capabilities inother people?
No, but here's what I thinkabout instead of being like poo
on, it is okay if I'm not goingto be building that foundational
base that, like actualknowledge, experience from

(54:17):
knowing it from the bottom up,that's going to create another
opening of what is the specialvalue, what is the thing that
needs to be focused on so thatwe don't lose that?
And so which goes back to yourconsulting and teaching What'll
happen is people are going to beoverly dependent on AI and then

(54:39):
they're going to realize one ortwo generations in, and when I
say generation, five years, 10years, right, oh crap, this
person has a new.
They're hiring people now andthey don't know how to onboard
them and orient them to the work.
I think at that point and whenthat happens, when that hits the
teachers, educators,consultants are going to become

(55:00):
more valuable, because there'svery few people that have that
knowledge base or ability tofill the gap that we created by
over indexing.
On optimization, what do youthink?

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah, no, I agree, and it's same thing.
So I I'm in that bubble likeI'm keeping up with this stuff,
so I'm aware of it.
But even the last flooringconference I went to so I use a
Creo, it's like they're in theUK, it's an AI and nobody had
heard of it.
When I was talking to people,like zero people, I told 15, 20
people nobody had heard of it.

(55:33):
So even in the industry thatit's like targeted towards,
there's not any.
I mean, there's not.
It's definitely not adoption,because there's no knowledge of
it.
So it's probably an unboundedfear, like just yeah, like you
said, the false sense of urgencythat we need to be ready for it
.
It's just probably in my headbecause I'm like so on top of it
, because I know it's going toimpact yes, e before maybe

(55:55):
trickle down and impacts actualcompanies so, yeah, no, it's
good when you're on top of.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
I mean, I think the key point there is you are on
top of it and, for anybodylistening, don't sleep on it,
but also don't like getting.
You're good, but learn about it, practice, tinker, like under,
get an understanding of what itis, because it will be.
Is it yet?
Not necessarily, but I thinkit's coming.
But I don't think it'll be.

(56:20):
The capability andfunctionality I think is really
there, like good adoption is notbecause people don't understand
the capability of the thing andwe're using it, we're under
utilizing it and that's a matterof adoption and understanding.
So we got time.
It's just a big jump.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
There's a lot of people just even for flooring,
use Bluebeam and Excel.
Still they don't even use yes,it's not bad.
I mean, that's successful, itworks.
Do it yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
But they're not even switching to flooring specific
software.
So the jump that AI is, it's abig leap.
So you mentioned measure square.
I'm assuming that's thesoftware that you use in the
service that you provide.
So, mr Joseph Richards, whatservice do you provide?
What is it that you do forbusinesses out?

Speaker 2 (57:08):
there Sure.
So we do takeoff quantitytakeoffs for commercial flooring
companies.
So we cover basically all ofdivision nine.
So the soft goods tile is ismainly what we do.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Okay, so if I'm a flooring company meaning I
installed tile, carpet, thesesorts of things on the floor in
commercial buildings I can callyou and say hey man, I need some
help because my estimators areoverwhelmed and we got a lot of
opportunities here.
Can you help us out?
Can you pick up our?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
slack.
That's mostly what it is.
You just can't keep up withyour bid calendar.
You just need some extra help.
So we have some that maybe hopon for a month just to catch up.
They got, maybe they gotsomebody out, somebody sick,
something like that.
It's just temporary.
I mean I've had a couple ofclients that have been with me
the whole time Nice.
So it's really it's designed tobe flexible, yeah.

(58:00):
So, whatever capacity you need,I mean, we can handle.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
And you're remote.
So anywhere in the country,anybody in the country, any
flooring contractor in thecountry, you're like, you got
their back.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, yeah, they'll be that.
And then we have one in Canada.
I had one in New Zealand oh,send me something.
But the metric on the plansbroke my brain.
I had to refer him somewhereelse because I just couldn't.
It was that, and theneverything the materials were
like called different things.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
So I just couldn't wrap my head around it and I'm
like this sorry, I'm not the guyfor you.
Yeah, that is interesting, likeI want to be international oh
crap, I don't know how to like.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
It just happened he found me on youtube and just
asked if I could help, and I'mlike sure, and they sent me the
plans.
I'm like, oh no, it totallydifferent.
So I found somebody that couldread that stuff.
Yeah, I was like I could figureit out, but I don't really want
to.
So I'll help you out and findyou somebody.
Good though.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
I think that's a smart move, because what they
need is speed, and if you don'tknow it, you're going to be
slower to produce the outcomethat they're looking for.
You're better off saying, hey,man, man, let me give you
somebody, because sure I couldlearn.
It's going to slow you down,but it's also going to slow them
, delay the delivery of thevalue to them, which I think is

(59:23):
another key point that peopleout there need to think about.
All right, so what?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
I was just saying having it, he would have to
teach me basically, like whatall this, these words mean.
Yeah, I mean I can look it up,or it's going to be a lot of
back and forth.
There will naturally be someback and forth in the first few
jobs, just to so you're on thesame page, but this is like a
whole different level.
So just something like and likea year ago or something, I

(59:50):
probably would just sucked it upand kept doing it.
And like a year ago orsomething, I probably would just
sucked it up and kept doing it.
But at this point I've beenthrough enough of those to know.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
That's just not.
That's not fair to either oneof us.
That's it.
It's not fair to either one ofyou.
I love that, so I'll make surewe put the links for people can
connect with you.
Check out your website, Checkout the YouTube, Check out the
LinkedIn All of the things andfolks when you do make sure you
leave a comment for Mr Josephand ask him to post more.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Bully me into it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yeah, yeah, bully.
Yes, we're going to take thebully approach.
So are you ready for the grandslam?
Closing question yeah, let's doit.
Okay, so you have a man.
I never even asked about thelandman stuff, that just sounds.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Oh well, missed opportunity tell you it's just
stuff like that, so that, likemy english background like
basically I just did titleresearch for oil and gas all
this stuff that you wouldn'tthink would apply to what I do
perfectly applies to what I dohelps me sift through plans
pretty quick and just havingkind of like a research

(01:00:56):
background is a reallytransferable skill.
So yes yes, not like you canlearn the construction part, but
if you don't have people thatlike that part of it, it's not
ever going to be a good fit.
So I will say that's how, and Ireally enjoyed that job too.
So just kind of random stuffthat I didn't think would pay
off has been really helpful inthis role.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Yeah, man, and I love that you called out
transferable skills.
So you've had a twisted, windyroad to being a business owner a
growing and thriving businessbecause you're putting people on
.
Maybe didn't know at the time,but along the way you've picked
up transferable skills and theability to recognize that you
can pick up transferable skillsregardless of what kind of work

(01:01:40):
you're doing and where you thinkyou're headed and where you
actually end up.
I think that whole experienceand taking the leap into
starting your business andlearning what that is and should
be, is going to color youranswer to this question in an
important way.
And so here's the question whatis the promise you are intended

(01:02:02):
to be?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
So there's a show that I love.
It's called Halt and Catch Fireand it's about have you heard
of it?
I have not.
It was on AMC.
It follows these people kind ofthrough the tech of the 80s and
the 90s, Starts with, likepersonal computers kind of ends
off with the internet beingcreated and there's a guy in
there that says computers aren'tthe thing, they're the thing
that gets us to the thing.
So I kind of all the differentstuff that I've done, none of

(01:02:27):
those were the thing.
They kind of get me there.
So, even if this is not mything, it's another step towards
that.
So growing up we always mowedyards.
Like I didn't have a real jobuntil basically college.
Wow, and that was so.
We kind of always had thatentrepreneur thing and I felt
like I kind of ran away from itfor a long time because it's

(01:02:48):
scary and if I didn't have mywife to be so amazing and
supportive like I probably neverwould have done it.
So I think just embracing kindof you have that spirit,
whatever that ends up being.
Like the specific business,nobody grows up hey, I want to
do takeoffs for a living andthen I want to start a business
where I do it for other people.

(01:03:09):
Nobody has ever been born thatwants to do this from the time
they were a little boy.
So it's not at this point.
For me it's not so much likewhat the actual activity is,
because I know in maybe five or10 years it could be something
totally different, Maybe it's adifferent business.

(01:03:30):
So I think at this point it'skind of and I have people
they'll message me all the timeand say like hey, how did you do
this, how can I do this?
And so at this point it's kindof like just teaching, it's
encouraging, Like I tell themexactly what I did.
I mean, they could be competingwith me tomorrow, but I just
think that's the way to do it.
So I think, if nothing else,I'm trying to convey a different

(01:03:52):
attitude about running abusiness.
Whether that's good business ornot, uh, remains to be seen.
But I just feel like sorry, Ijust feel like being super open
is kind of unusual and that'skind of what I'm trying to do.
And whether it ends up beingthis business for a long time or

(01:04:14):
it ends up being the next one.
I feel like that's kind ofgoing to be my thing.
And then a lot of this stuff Igot from the guys over at
Basecamp project managementsoftware, and they're very open
about everything too, becauseI'd never heard of like pricing
especially.
So I put it on my website, juststuff like that I want.
Yeah, so I put it on my website, just stuff like that.
I want to be very transparentand with that, with the teaching
and the youtube, I think that'skind of what I'm trying to

(01:04:35):
build, more than a takeoffempire.
So if this is to go back tothat quote like this is not the
thing, you can take what I'mbuilding here and go to the next
thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
So, yeah, no, I love that I particularly not
surprised, but absolutelyappreciate.
And then I am in support of thetransparency right.
Let me just I can holdeverything close to the chest,
which a lot of people do, butwhy like?
Why not help people?
Why not share your experience,your knowledge, your thought,

(01:05:07):
like you're three years ahead ofthem?
Let them, you got a headstart.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
It's okay.
Yeah, it's okay.
Yeah, it's part of it.
Well, I mean, I get thehesitation and it's well,
there's going to copy me.
I'm like, well, if somebody iscopying you, they're always
going to be behind you, correct?
Yes, that's kind of why I justyeah, even my, my estimate.
He's like, why do you share allthis stuff?
Is everyone's going to learnhow to do this?
I'm like, I don't know, it justfeels I enjoy it and it just

(01:05:33):
feels kind of like the rightthing to do 10-4.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
10-4.
I love that man.
Did you have fun?

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Yes, I loved it, man, I can't believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
It's been that long You're looking at the whole shit
.
Oh man, Thank you for stickingit out all the way to the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on and, in
appreciation for the gift oftime that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book Becoming the
Promise You're Intended to Be.

(01:06:01):
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.
There's a link in there.
You just click that and you candownload the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate yousharing.

(01:06:22):
That increases the likelihoodthat it's going to help one more
person.
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be.
Be kind to yourself, be cool,and we'll talk at you next time.