Megan Shapiro: Authenticity as a Superpower

In this episode of the Learnings and Missteps podcast, Jesse reconnects with Megan Shapiro, an accomplished lawyer and repeat guest. They discuss her evolving career and ventures, including launching the Converge Construction Summit and her business coaching initiatives. Megan shares insights on navigating setbacks, growing her network, and intentionally serving her community. With candid stories of her unique branding journey and strategic goals, this episode offers inspiration for professionals looking to leverage their skills and passion for greater impact in their industries.

00:00 Overcoming Setbacks and Learning from Failures

00:18 Introducing the Guest: Megan Shapiro

02:10 The Power of Branding and Personal Style

03:36 Embracing the Pink Blazer: A Branding Journey

06:43 Building a Community and Networking

11:54 The Importance of Tenacity and Resilience

13:09 Creating and Marketing Online Courses

16:41 The Value of Authentic Engagement

21:06 In-Person Networking and Building Relationships

26:20 Exploring New Ventures: Do It Like a Lawyer

31:15 From Conversation to Workshop

31:44 The Make Your Case Workshop

32:29 Challenges with Male Audiences

33:14 Success with Women-Focused Workshops

34:08 Resilience and Rejection

35:41 Expanding Influence and Impact

40:02 Balancing Law and Business

42:43 The Converged Construction Summit

53:47 Future Plans and Intentional Growth

58:23 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Set the stage for an amazing new year with the Self First Framework.

https://calendly.com/jesse04/self-first-webinar

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https://www.depthbuilder.com/books

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Don't think that that was just an easy, I took

(00:01):
the L and moved on.
Like I had to lick my wounds, Idid, but certainly I learned a
ton about what messaging wasn'tworking, which then helps you
figure out what might, and thenthat leads you to what will.

SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
What is going on, LM family?
Back again.
And this time, I think actually,this is the very, very first
time we're doing this.
We have a repeat offender on thescreen.
If you haven't heard the firstepisode, go back and listen to
it.
My friend, Miss Megan Shapiro,amazed Esquire.

(00:39):
She's a lawyer.
And no, I don't know her becauseshe helped me stay out of my
criminal past.
I met her on LinkedIn, superamazing human being.
And since the last time we hadour conversation on this
podcast, she's launched a wholenew universe.
She's out there making bigmoves, serving in big ways.

(00:59):
And I'll say the maybe I can saythe western United States and
continuing towards the East.
It seems to be going thatdirection.
You're going to get to know allthe highlights, all the updates.
But first, if this is your firsttime here, you're listening to
the Learnings and Misstepspodcast, where you get to see

(01:20):
how amazing people just like youare sharing their gifts and
talents to leave this worldbetter than they found it.
I am Jesse, your selfishservant, and we are about to get
to know a little bit more aboutmy friend Miss Megan.
Megan, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Good.
But I, my mind is blown becausedespite the number of
conversations that you and Ihave had, I had no idea that I'm
your first repeat offender.

SPEAKER_00 (01:45):
I yes, I think I'll have to double check, but I'm
pretty damn sure you are thefirst.
And I'm glad it's you becauseyou got all kinds of stuff going
on.

SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
Well, I am super stoked to get to be the first
repeat offender.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
Of course.
So how long has it been a year?
No, it's probably been longerthan a year.

SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
I think it has.
I think we probably recorded atthe end of 23, maybe early 24.

SPEAKER_00 (02:09):
Oh my god.
Wow.
Yeah, time has been flying.
And so first I gotta say, itseems like every video, every
clip, and even now, I see you'rewearing your brand colors.
And I'm like, man, I need to gostart buying me some clothes
with my brand colors, but Idon't know if I'll be able to

(02:29):
find it.
So maybe that's the firstquestion.
Do you have a whore a wholewardrobe customized with your
brand colors?
And if so, tell me who yourperson is because I need some of
that action.

SPEAKER_01 (02:43):
Amazon is my person.

SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
I love it.

SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
Jeff Bezos, I yeah, I do have I do have a lot of
print options in the brandcolor, the hot pink, but I do
get them from a variety ofplaces.
Several of them have come fromAmazon.
This is actually the originalblazer that started it all two
years ago on accident.
And I think this was from likeMarshalls or something.
Yeah, so I tend to just sort ofgrab stuff when I see it when

(03:07):
I'm out shopping, and then Ireserve Amazon for if I'm
looking for a very specificpiece.

SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
Okay, okay.
Well then I'm gonna have to hitup Marshalls and I'm gonna have
to get on Amazon.
Ken, did you notice I'm matchywith the brandish colors?

SPEAKER_01 (03:20):
I did, and because I'm also selfish, like you
described yourself, I justassumed you did that just for
me.

SPEAKER_00 (03:28):
Yes, of course.
Of course I did.
Now, you said you already openedthe door, so I gotta go there.
You said this is the blazer thatkind of started it all.

SPEAKER_01 (03:40):
Yeah.
What is all well, just the brandcolor, to be clear.
This is the blazer that startedthe brand color.
So, for those of you whoactually met me in person and
actually know me pretty well,probably knowing that hot pink
is my brand color is a littlebit of a surprise because it's
not really it doesn't go with mypersonality.
I am oh, you're making a I'mokay.

(04:02):
I want to I'm gonna interviewyou now.
Why are you making that face?

SPEAKER_00 (04:06):
I think the hot pink goes with the personality that I
know, right?
Super high energy, be careful.
It might you might get stung.
Sharp, quick.
That's what I get out of hotpink, and that's what I get out
of you.
I don't maybe I don't see hotpink as like a soft color.
I see it as a power color.

(04:26):
And every interaction that youand I have had is nothing but
power.
Is that's all I'm taking fromit.

SPEAKER_01 (04:32):
Wow.
Okay, well, thank you for thatfeedback.
And it's interesting you thatyou said I can sting because I'm
big into astrology and I am aScorpio, so we definitely are
known for stinging.
And that's what I was going tosay is I'm like, you'll notice
that my nails are almost alwaysblack, my glasses are black.
I always my nail artist, I don'thave to tell her anymore because
I've been with her long enoughnow.
But when I first started seeingher, I always go, Yes, I want my

(04:54):
nails black like my soul.
So I feel like I am black, andhot pink is such like a contrast
to that.
So what happened was, gosh, it Ithink it was early 24, I think.
The Sacramento Region BuildersExchange was doing programming
that was focused on women inconstruction leading up to their
annual women in constructionconference that's here in

(05:16):
Sacramento at our conventioncenter.
And I went to one of the eventsthat was in the sort of runway.
And on a whim, I was like, oh,I, you know what?
I feel like I want to wear abright color.
And I had just gotten thisblazer and a lime green laser
blazer.

SPEAKER_03 (05:30):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
So they were both in my closet and I was like, hmm,
what do I want to go with?
And I was like, well, women inconstruction, I'll go with pink.
Okay.
So I throw the blazer on, go tothis event.
Well, again, for those of youwho know my personality, the
next part of the story will comeas no surprise.
But the facilitators who weredoing the workshop asked for
volunteers.
So of course I volunteered.
Of course, I volunteered.
And I became sort of, theyactually ended up having a lot

(05:51):
of volunteers that were doingthis particular activity as part
of the workshop.
And again, no surprise to thosewho know me, I had the only
position relative to me, andeverybody else had like
different take on whatever thisthing was.
So I was kind of standaloneanyway.
And so everybody else startedtalking about me again as part
of it, right?
Like why I had taken theposition I had taken.

(06:12):
And so they began to refer to meas the pink blazer girl.
Okay.
Because it was like it was theeasy way to refer to me.
So I was like, oh man, well,fast forward to the next women
in construction event that Iwent to a couple of a month or
six weeks later.
And several people came up to meand said, I almost didn't
recognize you without your pinkblazer.
And that was the moment that Iwas like, oh man, okay, if I

(06:35):
want to build this out and berecognized, I just gotta lean
into it.

SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
So that okay, so it wasn't.
I love that.
I and I think there's a hugevalue point there for like LM
family members out there,entrepreneurs or people that
want to start a side hustle, ispay attention to what people
respond to.
Because there's a tremendous,like that's no friction.
Let's just say you picked yourcolor to be black, but everybody

(07:02):
was responding to pink, then yougot to sell them on the black.
If they're already down with thepink, give them more pink, man.
So it wasn't like a color, youjust picked a blazer, yep, and
and that was it.
But the response was like, uhoh, there's something here.
Let me lean into that.

SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And in the early days, becausenow I've I embraced it, it's
been almost two years since Iembraced it, but in the early
days, I struggled a little bitbecause it is not like I'm not a
pink girl.
There are a lot of women outthere who are just like they
always loved pink.
Pink has always been and I'm notone of those people.
And so I really struggled in thebeginning with feeling a bit
inauthentic and how I wasshowing up because it was so not

(07:42):
what I was feeling inside.
And so I was like, is thiscoming across too contrived or
I'm trying too hard?
But I kept getting the samefeedback, like what you shared,
about how it comes across toyou.
And so that slowly eroded myinsecurity about it.
And now, like I see pinkeverywhere, and now I get
excited when I see it.
I'm like, oh, I need to grabthat.

(08:03):
I need to add that to mywardrobe.
My phone case is now pink, mystairs.
It makes it easy.

SPEAKER_00 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, I love that.
Okay, so brand colors was aresponse to the audience to
people saying, Hey, that's thepink lady.
And then I know that last timewe talked it, I think you were
tinkering.
Yeah, yeah, you were alreadykind of out there doing
something because you're like areal lawyer, right?

(08:29):
You're a partner at a firm andyou do construction legal stuff,
like serious stuff.
But you were going down thisvein, it seemed like you saw.
Well, let me ask you, did yousay, I want to do this, I'm
gonna make this happen, or wasit more, oh, that's something.
Let me go explore that vein, theside hustle, whatever that is.

(08:52):
What was what which one was it?
Was it I'm gonna make it happen,or let me go explore.
That looks interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
It was both.

SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
Yeah.
So I did intentionally set outto start a side hustle, but the
side hustle that I set out tostart was going to be
exclusively an online self-studycourse.
So edit and forget it kind ofsituation.
And I drew more on what I do asa construction attorney.
And so it was really moreholistic in terms of proactive

(09:22):
risk management focused forconstruction leaders.
And I think that was just toobig of a thing because I had
modules that covered things likestrategic corporate formation.
I had things I did talk aboutcontracts, but that was just one
out of eight modules.
So I was trying to do a littlebit in a bunch of different key
areas, and it didn't reallyland.

(09:43):
I tried, I worked on that forprobably the first nine to 12
months when I was doing this.
You heard it.
Yeah, and it was just that.
And I finally I got the wholecourse created, recorded all the
videos, housed it on ThinkIphic,created all of the resources
that went along with it, all thethings, and I sold zero courses.

(10:05):
Oh, not a single person.

SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
I'm gonna do the LM family member shout-out.
This one goes to my brother andand Megan's brother too, Mr.
Lance Furuyama.
Lance said, I was fortunateenough to join the second
session of the time managementworkshop.
And it changed the way I look atmy calendar.
For those that know me, it lookslike I'm a master of

(10:31):
organization and planning.
What I didn't realize is that Iwasn't allowing any time in my
calendar for myself or thethings that I want to do.
Lance, thank you, my brother.
I know you're out there.
Also, baller making all kinds ofgreat things happen.
And folks, that's the self-firsttime mastery workshop.

(10:51):
Sign up for the thing.
If not, get some of thedownloadables.
That's what he's talking about.
It's the justified way oflooking at time and really more
accurately managing yourself.
And if you are out there and youleave a comment, a message, a
review, all of the things, yougive me an excuse to shout you
out in the future.

(11:12):
So please do that so I can tellmy mom that other people listen
too.

SPEAKER_01 (11:19):
Yeah.
But while I was building thatup, I was creating the
relationships like with you andLance and all of our wonderful,
what I call the constructioncorner of LinkedIn, all these
amazing people.
I was getting a lot of greatfeedback.
I was paying attention to whatwas hitting, what was
resonating, what really peoplewanted to hear about from me,

(11:40):
what people viewed as myexpertise.
And so that's the thread that Idid sort of follow after what I
thought I set out to do bombedme.
I sort of followed the threadand got to where I am now.

SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
Oh my God.
So two things that I think areultra powerful, and one
specifically is one of the manythings that I really appreciate
about you.
Your tenacity and resilience.
Tenacity to do the damn thing,not for a week and say, Well,
nobody bought, I give up.
Freaking nine months.
That's serious hours and timeand obsessing and doubting and

(12:16):
questioning of every little bit.
I know, right?
Oh, how do I form this moduleand how do I market it?
All that crap.
Checking the damn stats every 30minutes, like maybe.

unknown (12:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
And you didn't stop.
And then you went on to so tome, that's resilience, being
able to do that, the tenacity toput in the work because you're a
mom, wife, you're a partner at afirm, you have a whole lot going
on, and you still like it'sinteresting, right?
Because people say, I don't havetime.
My friend Megan has the sameamount of time you do, and she

(12:46):
has a lot of the constraintsthat you do, right?
I mean, I don't want to be ugly,but you did it.
And what that means is it'spossible.
Sure, everybody has differentthings, I get that, but come on,
man.
Anyways, here's what I'm whatI've so I want people to take
that away.
Is man, you got to put in thetime, you got to put in the
effort, and there's noguarantees.

(13:09):
But what are the transferableskills or the what is the
transferable knowledge you gotfrom building that course and
shooting a big fat zero becauseyou haven't stopped and bigger
things have manifested, I'mgonna say manifested from that.
So, were there any transferableskills or experiences in

(13:30):
launching the course that havecontributed to where you're at
now?

SPEAKER_01 (13:37):
Absolutely.
There's a reason why it's commonbusiness and entrepreneurial
knowledge that you learn morefrom your failures than your
successes, right?
There's a reason why all thesuccessful big entrepreneurs out
there say that.
So I did lick my wounds.
I mean, I don't get me wrong, Idon't want to mislead anybody to
think that like the selling zerojust rolled off my back after.

(13:58):
I mean, I was at my law firmoffice so that I could record
with good video without thedistraction of my kid and my
husband.
So I was out, I spent everyweekend for four months in my
office recording those videos.
So like, yeah.
So don't think that that wasjust an easy, I took the L and
moved on.
Like I had to lick my wounds, Idid, but certainly I learned a
ton about what messaging wasn'tworking, which then helps you

(14:20):
figure out what might, and thenthat leads you to what will.
So there were a lot of the, Imean, of course, like the tech
stuff, right?
I learned how to record a video,I learned how to edit a video, I
learned how to build a website,I learned what to do with an
email.
Like I learned all those sort oflike technical things that are,
of course, always transferable.
But for me, the biggest one, thebiggest, I don't, and I don't

(14:42):
know if I want to call it, butmy biggest takeaway, my biggest
outcome was really the networkthat I was building along the
way and the connections, therelationships that I formed.
Because I was super lucky andyou were a part of, you were a
little bit further ahead of us.
You're always gonna be a littlebit further ahead of the rest of
us.
But I was really lucky thatthere were a lot of really
awesome construction contentcreators on LinkedIn at the same

(15:04):
time that I was starting, whowere also starting out.
You, like I said, you werethere, but you had already been
there, right?
So you were a little bit furtherahead than some of the rest of
us.
But you and some of these otherpeople that were a little ahead,
like Lance is a great example.
You guys are so willing to sortof like give the hand back and
help teach us and mentor us andpull us along and pull us up.
And that helped us build thesesort of little pockets of

(15:25):
accountability buddies, peoplewho are totally willing to share
their time freely with bouncingideas and brainstorming and hey,
have you thought about this?
And even giving some toughfeedback, right?
We both know Josh Lubker.
He is, I always talk about Joshwhen this comes up because Josh
is probably the person that I'vemet and connected with the most
who gives it to me thestraightest without sugarcoating

(15:47):
it at all.
He is not worried about myfeelings.
And I that's a good thing.
I don't draw a criticism.
I need that person that's look,this is gonna probably hurt your
feelings, but you need to hearit if you actually want to be
successful.
If you just want to do this andhave fun and only have the feel
goods, I'll just tell you whatyou want to hear.
But you've got people who aretelling you what you want to
hear.
I'm gonna tell you what you needto hear.
And so it's though, it's thatcommunity that came out of the

(16:09):
failure that I attribute themost to the success to the
extent that I have success now,but to where I am now, I'll say
it that way.

SPEAKER_00 (16:18):
Okay, now it's uh amazing.
I think again, that's a hugenugget for the listeners out
there.
In summary, it might bomb.
So what?
Lick your wounds and reflect.
Okay, what did I what's thetakeaway?
What's the lesson or lessonsthat can be like plug and play
going forward?

(16:39):
Now you mentioned the community.
You didn't passively build acommunity, and what I mean by
that is I have we have people inour circle and I have friends
that are like, man, I post, butlike I don't get any
interaction.
It's okay, whose content do youinteract with?
Well, what do you mean?
I'm like, ah, there's problemnumber one, right?
Go and interact on otherpeople's stuff.

(16:59):
How many people have you reachedout to just because you thought
they were cool or interesting?
Whoa, okay, like start doingthat.
I didn't do it this way, butwhen I'm talking to people and
they're interested in gettingactive, it's not like I'm a pro,
but I know how to get started,right?
If I would have like going back,what I should have done and what

(17:20):
I recommend to people.
So, listener out there, ifyou're a lurker, I'm gonna give
you some nuggets.
It is very easy and very highreturn.
Just comment on other people'sstuff.
I didn't do that at thebeginning, right?
Commenting on other people'sstuff and not saying, agreed,
great insight.
Thank you for that.
Not you could start there,you'll get a pass for about a

(17:41):
week, and then you gotta elevateyour game.
But like really finding peoplethat I agree with or that maybe
I don't agree with, and posting,making a comment that of my
unique perspective on what theysaid, whether it's an agreement
or not, that's an easy lift tostart building community.
Now, when I say passive, goingback to my statement about like

(18:04):
passively building a community,what I really mean is the people
that post once or twice a weekand they're pissy because
they're not getting anyengagement.
I think that's what I'm talkingabout when I say passive because
they're not actively engaging onother people's stuff, they're
just like, everybody come to me.
Now, how's that relative to you?

(18:26):
Well, you were super, I don'tknow if the words strategic or
intentional, but you weren'tplaying.
You went out, like the communitydidn't just happen.
You went out and built acommunity.
What was your thinking and whatwere the steps that you did?
Because there was a bunch ofthings that you did that I think
are super, super valuable, thatare just another part of that

(18:51):
thing, right?
The Lego block or the puzzlepiece for people that want to
for make it happeners that wantto start a side hustle or start
a business or whatever.
In terms of the way you builtyour community and went out and
networked, what were the things?

SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
Well, I definitely did what you're talking about,
right?
Like I, as I was able toidentify people who were posting
construction-related contentthat either had a perspective
that I agreed with or maybe hada perspective that I didn't
agree with but had an opinionabout, uh, so that I could
engage valuably, I tried toforge those connections, right?

(19:28):
And I tried to do soauthentically.
And I think that's the big key,right?
So, like when I was commentingon people's posts, and I
obviously still do this now,although I admit that I am not
nearly as active on otherpeople's posts lately as I
previously was and hope to beagain in the future.
But there are only so many hoursin the day.
But I was, I was reallyintentional about showing up

(19:48):
authentically.
So I wouldn't comment unless Iactually had an app a position
to take and an opinion to share,good or bad.
And in the early days, I alsohad an open invitation, and I'm
not sure that this would work in20 in late 2025.
I'm curious for your thoughts onthis too, Jesse.
But I at the time in early 24, Ihad an open invitation.

(20:09):
People could self-book time onmy calendar to do that.
And I would tell people, I'vegot one rule, there's no
pitching.
I don't want you to sell meanything, and I'm not going to
sell you anything.
This is exclusively to actuallyget to know each other on a
personal level.
That's how you and I fordeepened our connection, Jesse.
And I'm and that really allowedme to show up authentically, to
get to know people, hopefullyauthentically, and figure out

(20:32):
whether these are people thatI'm want to remain invested in.
Okay, can this be an actualrelationship or does this need
to stay a little more arm'slength that, like, okay, well,
comment on your stuff, you cancomment on mine, but I don't
necessarily need to have you, Idon't know, come visit my house
and stay in my spare bedroomwith my kids like you have.
So it's a little bit of a, it'sa uh, it's a screener, right?

(20:52):
But it also more importantlyallows you to kind of really
figure out those relationshipsthat are worth investing in and
go deeper, which is how I, whichis how I truly feel like I built
my community.
And once I had done that, thenother opportunities came up to
really go to actually worktogether.
So the first time you and I metin person, of course, I attended
one of your in-person weekendevents.

SPEAKER_03 (21:12):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
That allowed me to then meet other people that I
was worth interacting with onLinkedIn.
And we got to get to, we got tospend a weekend together getting
to know each other.
Then things like LCI Congress,right?
I I was uh, I don't know if I'msupposed to say this out loud,
but I was I crashed LCI Congresslast year.
I decided to just fly downwithout a ticket and hang out in
the lobby just so I could hangout with people that I had

(21:34):
already met in person or meetsome new people that I had
engaged with but hadn't gottenan opportunity to meet in
person.
So I did kinds of those kinds ofthings.
The reason why I should justclose the loop, the reason why I
said I'm not sure that the openinvitation for coffee chats
would work anymore, is I thinkthat it's a lot harder to get
people to invest in the time fora coffee chat without the
opportunity to pitch.
I think people are like, I'll doit, but I want to have the

(21:57):
chance to pitch.
That's my perception based offof that who would have thought
you could increase the number ofcold pitches in the DMs that you
get, but mine have increased.
So I'm not sure it would worknow, but that's definitely a
strategy that I used in thebeginning.

SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Yeah, no, I took advantage.
I'm like, one, just because theof the way that you commented
and I could see you interactingwith everybody else, like, okay,
she's for real.
And I was like, oh, well, Icould just schedule a call.
Well, hell yeah, let's do this.
But I'll tell you the truth,like, I was still skeptical.
There's probably gonna be apitch, and it wasn't.
It was just, I mean, we ran outof time because we were like
just having like, oh man, passthe test.

(22:31):
We gotta hang, we're friends,right?
Bam, but too bad.
You're you've been adopted.
For me, I still have a thing,it's on my website.
I think it's on my link.
I don't know, I gotta check myprofile.
Used to be where it was anybodyschedule a call, book a call
now.
And it's interesting, like Ididn't have to say no pitches,
but what it is, it's a phonecall.

(22:53):
So if you sign up, you gottagive me your phone number.
And I think that alone filteredout all the pitches because what
I found is people, I mean, I'vehad a few people reach out in
the DMs of, oh, I'd love toconnect and have a yeah, here's
the link, schedule the call.
And then they'll I've had acouple immediately send me back
their scheduling link.
And guess what?

(23:14):
Their scheduling link takes meto it takes me to a Zoom
meeting.
Ah, you want to handcuff me sothat I can see your damn pitch
deck.
That's not what you said.
You said connect and learn howto like negative.
So, anyways, summary there isbecause of the phone call thing,
I get the privacy part right,but so I'll give people a pass
on that.
But for me, the way I viewed itis it was anybody that wants to

(23:37):
do a pitch, they're not gonna beable to do their pitch deck on
the phone, and so they'll justnot do it, and it but seems to
be working now.
The other side, it's interestinghow many people don't do it,
like it's there for anybody, butthere's not like a super I
expected like, oh my god, mycalendar's gonna be flooded with
all these random calls, and it'snot.

(23:58):
So I don't know if it's justmaybe there's something wrong
with me.
I don't know, but I think here'swhat I'll say I think giving
people an avenue to connect withyou on a deep deeper level is a
good thing.
What that is, that's up to theindividual.
That's case by case situation.
So you did a lot of massivethings, you built up uh the

(24:21):
network, and one thing I want topoint out that people can't miss
because it's interesting.
I like the way you call it theLinkedIn construction corner,
right?
And people are like, Yeah, y'allare all like friends, and I'm
like, Yeah, like how do y'allwhy are y'all so close?
Because we've made efforts tomeet in person.

SPEAKER_02 (24:40):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (24:41):
Did it cost a plane ticket?
Yeah, for some of us, not foreverybody, but for at some
point, somebody made aninvestment to travel somewhere
to go meet weirdos that they meton the friggin' internet.
And for some people, that's alittle crazy.
For me, it's not, it makesperfect sense because I've met
some freaking amazing people.
And so for the listener outthere, you gotta the question is

(25:03):
this how much do you want toconnect?
And what are you willing tosacrifice?
Because a plane ticket, I knowthey're not free, but I've spent
that's a couple weekends at thebar, right?
Just don't go to the bar for acouple weeks, and I got them, I
got money for a whole well,maybe, and now I know I used to
drink as much as maybe peopledon't drink that much, but three

(25:24):
to five hundred bucks on aweekend at the bar was not like
that.
Was a moderate weekend for meback in the day.
My point is figure out what youcan do to continue investing in
the relationship from passive onLinkedIn, commenting to DMing to
a call to a video to in-person,because you've done all of those

(25:44):
things.
And I want to make sure that'ssuper, super obvious because
you've, I mean, I'm just gonnasay it.
You've got do it like a lawyer,you've got converge
construction, you've got the Idon't know what in my head it's
a third.
Say again, the contract coach,yeah, and these things are like

(26:06):
catching fire, and it's notbecause of your email sequence
alone.
You've put in a lot of damn timeand effort, like the sweat
equity, to freaking connect withpeople, so people don't miss
that.
That's really important.
So let's go into the we talkedabout the contracts course.

(26:26):
Is that still available?
No, no, you killed it, yousunset it.

SPEAKER_01 (26:31):
I did, yeah.
I mean, I have all the content.
If somebody out there is justdying, well, so first of all,
let me clarify it's not acontracts course, that one is
open for enrollment.
But the proactive riskmanagement course has been
sunset.
If anybody out there heard medescribe it and is just dying
for it, I'll send it to you forfree.
Shoot me a DM or an email, I'llgive you all the videos and the
content.
It does, but it's not availablefor consumption out there in the

(26:53):
world, no.

SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
Yeah, okay.
But you do you've done somein-person risk training contract
kind of awareness stuff.
What's that called?

SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Yeah.
So I have construction contractcoach.
So I'm a little bit of a domaingroupie.
I collect domains.
So I house all of my differentoffers on the domain that
matches them.
So I do own Megan Shapiro.comand I think of that as sort of
the clearinghouse, right?
So everything else, you can beyou can find everything there,
but I do have individualstandalone websites for the

(27:25):
individual offers.
So there'sconstructioncontractcoach.com,
there's doitlika lawyer.com, andthen there's converged
construction summit.com.
So construction contractcoach.com is where you can hire
me for one-on-one contractcoaching.
That's a series of eightone-hour coaching sessions that
cover the eight key contractualprovisions that make a make the
biggest impact on overallprofitability and bottom line

(27:46):
for most trades in theircontract formation.
And we work through that in myproprietary own framework.
So I show you how to optimizeway and negotiate your contracts
so you can review, red line, andnegotiate like a lawyer, so that
you don't need to hire anattorney every time a contract
comes across your desk.
And you invest in yourself onceas opposed to paying a recurring
subscription fee to an AIplatform.

(28:07):
So that's one of the offers onconstruction contract coach.
I do also do in-person teamtrainings.
So uh what that looks like issometimes I'll do it for trade
organizations.
I was at the Builders Exchangeof San Joaquin, wrapping up my
sixth series or the sixthsession in the series of
in-person contract training.
Um, but individual constructioncompanies will also bring me
in-house to do the trainings fortheir project managers,

(28:31):
superintendents, constructionmanager or contract managers,
whoever in their business isresponsible for really truly
owning and managing thecontracts.
I'll come in and I'll do atakeoff of the same sort of
principles and show you how toread, review, red line,
negotiate a contract frombeginning to end.
It's the full crap around.
So that's what I offer onconstruction on construction
contract coach.

SPEAKER_00 (28:52):
Nice, nice.
So you got that.

SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
Then you got do it like a lawyer.

unknown (28:57):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
And I know that's been you've been tinkering and
that's kind of been evolving.
Yes.
You've been testing in somecircles, it didn't resonate.
And then all it seems like youfound a nice, what do they?
What's the fancy language?
Product market fit.
What is what so what is do itlike a lawyer?
What's the mission?
What's the story behind it?

SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
So do it like a lawyer is started out as just a
catchphrase, actually, to goalong with the contract review,
right?
It started as like the finalpart of I'll teach you how to
review, red line, and negotiatea contract like a lawyer.
That's how it started.
But then it evolved again, thepink brand color, it kind of
evolved and took on a life ofits own that I embraced.

(29:40):
So at the first Converge, whichwas not called Converge back
then, it had a ridiculouslycumbersome name, construction
LinkedIn in real life, hashtagSavannah in September.
Yeah.
Very cumbersome.
Um, but at the very first one ofthose, where a select few people
who were will who were Willingto really get out of their

(30:00):
comfort zone and invest inmeeting in person.
We all got together and I did alot of the sort of programming
for the first year because wedidn't really know what we were
doing.
It was just like, oh, let's allget together.
And I don't know, what are wegoing to talk about?
Well, I've got some ideasbecause I've got all of these
lawyer skills that are reallytransferable if you break it
down in a certain way.

(30:37):
And I got really lucky becausethere was this really
insightful, very intelligent,super awesome guy who's an
amazing dancer and has wonderfulfeet that he can sell and make
money off of his pictures of,who took all of that and came to
me in Sacramento, came to visitme, flew into Sacramento, sat me

(30:58):
down at my own kitchen table andsaid, Hey, I love you.
You're an idiot because this isright in front of your face and
you don't even realize it.
Let me tell you what I thinkthis can be.

SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
Nah, you have amazing friends, Megan.
That's all I gotta say.

SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
I do.
I do have amazing friends.
So fast forward from thatconversation with Jesse, and it
became a workshop.
So it's interactive, which Ireally like workshops better
because I don't like personallyas an attendee.
I don't like going to sessionsat conferences where I just
listen to people talk.
I don't really like keynotes allthat much for the same reason.

(31:34):
Like I might get one reallyquotable quote out of it, and
that's my big takeaway from thewhole thing.
So I like workshops.
I want to have a walk-awaytangible thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 (31:43):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (31:43):
So my so that all evolved into the make your case
workshop where I where I focuson again through the lens of
using lawyer-y skills toapproach difficult
conversations.
And the takeaway at the end ofthe workshop is you have an
actual communication strategyblueprint where you have now
role-played in the workshop adifficult conversation that you

(32:04):
have coming up or one thatyou've been avoiding, so that
you've practiced it based off ofknown communication styles and
all the things that we workthrough.
I've got a custom, a proprietaryframework that I use within the
workshop called the Four NaturalVoices Framework.
And we work through that and youwalk out having practiced
multiple times this difficultconversation to give you the
confidence to go into thatconversation with the clarity

(32:25):
and confidence of an attorney,do it like a lawyer, so that you
can really make an impact.
Now, to your point earlier, Ithought that was a skill that
everybody would want to learn.

SPEAKER_03 (32:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:35):
As I floated it in different groups and diff with
different attendees, what reallysort of bubbled to the surface
is, and I guess I should nothave been surprised, I should
have seen this coming.
I'm just gonna say it.
It's probably gonna be anunpopular thing to say.
Feel free to edit it out if youdon't like it, Jesse.
But men didn't like it.
And that's just the reality.
Men, and I don't know if it wasbecause they didn't, because I'm

(32:57):
a female attorney and theydidn't want to hear it from a
woman, or if it was that I'm anattorney at all, because some of
the feedback I got from men inbusiness, C-suite level men in
business was there's nothingspecial about you.
What do you think that you canteach me?
That's a quote that I got.
And so again, licked my wounds,went back to the drawing board,
and realized the original groupthat I had done it for was the

(33:18):
Women in Construction Conferencehere in Sacramento.
And it was a wild success, whichis why I thought that I could
take it out and do it to a morevaried audience.

SPEAKER_03 (33:27):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (33:28):
And I went back to my roots, they loved it.
I then did it again at theBetter Business Bureau Women's
Conference here in Sacramento,and it was again a wild success.
And so I was like, oh, okay,well, why can't I just only
choose to serve women with thisparticular office?

SPEAKER_03 (33:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
Oh, wait, I can.
As a woman throughmale-dominated industries
because law is stillmale-dominated, and of course,
construction is male-dominated.

unknown (33:50):
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (33:51):
I've got a lot to teach other women in
male-dominated industries aboutfinding their voice and making
sure that they are heard becausethey belong in the rooms where
decisions are made and to havetheir voice heard in those
rooms.
And so I now teach them how toshow up in those rooms like a
lawyer.

SPEAKER_00 (34:06):
Oh my God.
Again, oh, so again, thetenacity and the resilience,
right?
You went and did this thing, andof course, it I am not
surprised.
Um, you know what?
I'm a little bit surprised thatyou didn't see it coming.

SPEAKER_03 (34:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:20):
Because dudes are dumb, and not just dumb, we're
delicate, right?
Like so for, and I think you youread it right.
It's not just because you're alawyer, it's also because you're
a female lawyer that is saying,Let me teach you.
So now that's the dominoes arethat three dominoes.
One, I'm a lawyer, you're not.

(34:42):
Two, I'm a woman, and thenthree, I'm gonna teach you.
Too many men can't, that's waytoo much to like you've already
you just blew up my comfortzone.
So the fence is gonna come outand say there's nothing you can
teach me that I don't alreadyknow, or whatever.
And that would be enough to shuta lot of people down.

SPEAKER_02 (35:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
And and I don't know if you think about it this way,
but I know I do.
Because so I've been asked,like, how do you feel about
rejection or this kind offeedback?
And I'm like, it's a data point,like it's all data, right?
Like they're gonna tell me basedon whatever they tell me is an
indicator of keep going or stop,I'm not gonna stop.

(35:28):
So keep going, and maybe I needto shift the direction a degree
or two, and the more rejection Iget, it's just clear data of
where not to play or who not towaste time on.
And so for you to what I thinkis amazing, I'm gonna say it
right now, prediction.
In five years, when you'retaking over the country and like

(35:50):
all the way to the East Coast,and just and then they start
inviting you to like dude stufftoo.
I'm gonna be saying, I'm gonnabe there to say, you dumbasses,
you were scared three, fiveyears ago, because I love what
you said, and maybe that'salready woven into your
messaging.
But women who work inmale-dominated industries need

(36:13):
these skills too, yeah, 100%.
And then I know men need themtoo, but maybe the way you kind
of get there or a pathway tothat is like young
professionals, right?
Because think of I think of theyounglings zero to three years
out of university, they don'thave the skill set, and the ones

(36:34):
that do think they have theskill set are freaking doing it
wrong, they're just not doing itright.
And so, I mean, that whole linethere, the do-it-like a lawyer
thing, I love the name becauseit helps people get in their
fields, and you ain't gottawaste your time with them.
And I now I also point I want tomake is there's a lot of folks

(36:54):
that do things specifically forwomen from a victim, I'm gonna
say it from a victimperspective, right?
But no, like we can say, and Iwill bear witness.
Like, no, no, no, no.
She didn't start with womenbecause she was scared, she
started with women because shedidn't start with women, she
started with an open group, butguys are dumb and sensitive.
So she focused on women.

(37:16):
It's not the other way around.
I don't know if that if if youcan you smell what I'm cooking
on that point.

SPEAKER_01 (37:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think I can.
And I think what really finallywas like the nail in the coffin
for that decision was one of themen in one of the groups that I
did it for.
Because I started out talkingabout how there's still gender
bias in the workplace, right?

SPEAKER_03 (37:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:34):
And at the end, he says, it's like you're living in
the 1980s.
We solved gender bias in theworkplace for women in the 80s.
And I I had to try not to reactlike that because I was like,
keep it together, right?
Like you're you're all.
And there were two women thatwere in this group that I was
presenting to.
There were two women in thegroup, the rest were men, and
these are all again C-suitelevel executives for businesses

(37:54):
of all kinds.
And I kind of like side-eyedboth of them.
Really, do you ladies feel thatway?
And they both turned on himbecause they could.
They were members of this groupthat I was presenting to, and
they were like, that'sabsolutely not true.
And I was like, okay, good,because I'm not a spring
chicken, but I was born in '83,so I wasn't in the workforce in
80.
So I'm like, well, maybe I didmiss it.

(38:15):
Maybe we did solve this problem.
And I'm the only woman inmale-dominated industries who's
being treated like dog shit.
So I don't know.
I guess we did solve iteverywhere, but here, I don't
know.
But the women in the roomvalidated, like, no, this is
still a women's face every dayin male-dominated industries in
the workforce.

SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Yeah, totally.
Well, and so I know you're doingthese things, the the two things
that we've talked aboutSacramento.
Um, hell, we'll just sayCalifornia, you've expanded and
invaded Arizona, you're comingto Texas, like little by little,
you're expanding your dominion.
And is it happening at the speedor the rate that you originally

(38:56):
planned?

SPEAKER_01 (38:57):
Oh, okay.
This is probably I'm here's mydisclaimer.
Listeners, do not take thisadvice.
This is not how to do it.
Do what Jesse says, not whatMegan does.
Okay.
That's my disclaimer.
I didn't plan it.
I never had a plan.
I did this.
It's so bad.
This is not how anybody shouldever start a business, even if
it's just a side business.
But I had no actual likebusiness goals or plans, and I

(39:20):
didn't even know that I should.
That's how bad it was.
Like when you talk about thelessons that I learned from the
failed launch of the firstonline course, I mean, it was
even little things like, oh,you're supposed to actually set
business goals, like financialbusiness goal.
And I was like, I didn't evenlike first converge.
You came to me and said, Blessyour heart.
I love that you're doing this,but you literally, do you even

(39:42):
realize that you're gonna haveto put down deposits?
And I was like, I'm gonna haveto do what?
I knew nothing, right?
I knew nothing.
I don't have a good answer foryour question because it didn't
even enter my mind.
And here's the worst part Istill do not have those sort of
like growth goals.
And that's in part because I amstill practicing law full-time.

(40:05):
So I have the luxury of treatingthis really cool hobby, which is
why I always say I'm justselfish.
Everything that I do becauselike it makes me feel good that
I get to meet cool people, helpcool people, hang out with cool
people.
It's not, I'm not my family isnot reliant on what money I
generate from my side business.
And so I still don't have likespecific intentional growth

(40:26):
goals because I got to balanceit with practicing law and
servicing my law firm clients.
So again, do as Jesse says, notas Megan does.

SPEAKER_00 (40:33):
No, well, so I love your vote of confidence, and I
knew the answer, but I want topoint out to people if you're
listening to this podcast,you're there, you're already a
little bit off.
So that's good.
I see it as evident to supportthat when you share your gifts
and talents in service toothers, amazing things happen

(40:55):
that you could not even imagine.
Would that be a good kind ofsummation of what you're
experiencing?

SPEAKER_01 (41:04):
100,000 percent.
Because never in a millionyears, when I hit post on my
first LinkedIn post and thoughtthat I was doing it to create
that risk management course,never in a million billion years
would I realize that I would beon my third annual year of
hosting a constructionconference.
Like never, ever crossed thatwas never a thing I thought I
wanted to do.

(41:25):
Never.
So absolutely, yes, I could notagree more with that
encapsulation.

SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
Yes.
So gifts and talents, you putthem out there, you reached out,
resilience.
What's the other word I like touse?
Tenacity, community, and itcontinues to grow.
And like my experience is thesame, right?
It's I mean, you and I weretalking before I hit record.
Like, how am I doing?
Like shit.

(41:51):
Am I awake?
Because it feels like a dream.
I mean, I'm in Arlington rightnow, recording this, talking to
an amazing human being that'shaving an impact in the
industry, right?
Not at home, not just at home,like the freaking industry.
I'm gonna go hang out with abunch of industry ballers, the

(42:11):
DFW ballers, so we can do somemarketing for Congress, LCI
Congress national freakingorganization.
When I quit my job and said, I'mgonna start a bit.
This was not on the plan, andnone of it has been on the plan.
It happens.
And again, I 100% believe andlove your testimony that when we
share our gifts and talents inservice to others, amazing

(42:34):
things happen.
You can't even anything youmapped out would be small
compared to what is actuallyavailable to us.
Now, you kind of dropped thehint there about I never would
have imagined planning uh anannual conference that attracts
some major ballers.

(42:55):
What is the conference?
Tell us about the conference.

SPEAKER_01 (42:58):
So the Converged Construction Summit, which I'd
like to think, although it's alittle bit of a mouthful, is
much easier to say thanconstruction LinkedIn in real
life.

SPEAKER_00 (43:05):
Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 (43:06):
Yeah, which is how we started.
So this year, so we gosh, it'sbeen, I cannot believe it's
already been two months, twomonths since we were all in
Sedona together for round two,which was the kickoff of
actually the rebrand calling itConverge, but it was our second
year.
So it's been about two monthsnow, two and a half months,
since we were all together inSedona.

(43:28):
And planning is well underwayalready for 2026.
And we've got some gross goals.
So talk about growth goals.
That's the one area where I didactually set some growth goals
is for the summit.
And I'm in the middle, I'm notsure when exactly you're gonna
release this, but as we'rerecording, I'm in the middle of
a week-long teaser campaign toreveal the location of Converge

(43:51):
2026.

SPEAKER_00 (43:52):
And so where is it gonna be?
Because I don't even know andI'm gonna be there.
I know that.
I know I'm gonna be there.
I've been at the first one, Iwas at the second one, but ain't
no way I'm missing the thirdone.
I'm looking at the teaserthinking, like, yeah, I know.
I've talked, I got insider info.
And then you drop another, I'mlike, shit, now I don't know.
Where is it gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
Are you gonna give me a drum roll?
Chicago 2026.

SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
I love it, I love it.
Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (44:20):
Yeah, awesome.
So, yeah, so again, I'mrevealing, I'm gonna reveal a
little bit more here for yourlisteners than what is publicly
known.
So your listeners are getting apeek behind the Wizard of Oz
curtain a little bit here.
And this is also the first timeyou're hearing that these
decisions have been made,although we brainstormed these
decisions together.
So we will be in Chicago.

(44:42):
We are moving the timing of theconference based on feedback
that I received.
So we will now be Wednesdaythrough Friday.

SPEAKER_00 (44:51):
Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
Although Wednesday is going to only be for alums,
our original convergers thathave been before.
And then we're gonna do all dayThursday and a half day Friday
for any newcomers and important.
Correct?
Or stay for the weekend.
A lot of people, one of thefeedback, a lot of the feedback

(45:14):
was based on wanting to be ableto stay in the place that we are
and bring families becausethat's one of the things that I
love about Converge that I thinksets us apart from some other
construction conferences, is thenumber of attendees who actually
brought their families.
I think we had five partners,spouses, even kids and family
members.
And by the way, they're welcometo come to the actual conference

(45:36):
too, if they care enough aboutthe topic, but they're certainly
welcome to come to our funactivities, which is one of the
things that I'm hoping theConverged remains known for, is
the outside of the conference.
These to build that communitybecause that's what started it
all in the first place, was thecommunity aspect.
So we're expanding the number ofdays.
We are shifting it a little bitso that people can spend the
weekend in Chicago if they want.
And we are, although I am gonnamake more tickets available for

(45:59):
purchase this year than I didlast year, it is still going to
be capped and limited because weare prioritizing that sort of
intimate feel.
And there is a chance that itmight actually end up being
invite only just based off ofavailability of numbers, based
off of people who came last yearand them already knowing that
they want to bring specificpeople.

SPEAKER_00 (46:19):
So oh my god, that's amazing.
Oh, I love okay.
So recap Wednesday is alum.
Yes, right?
Converger is alum.
You've been there last year, youget special access.
Tuesday all day, half a dayFriday, and then people can hang
out on the weekend.
You can bring your familybecause I brought my family to

(46:41):
both the first one and thesecond one.
I brought all of them, everybodythat lives with me, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 (46:46):
Everybody there.

SPEAKER_00 (46:47):
So you talked about like the and I agree.
We did the Jeep ride.
We did what did we do in so ohthe ghost tour?
But I flaked on that because wehad just got hit by a hurricane
in Savannah, which was perfectlyplanned.
Like, of course.

SPEAKER_01 (47:03):
But we also made we also did the riverboat dinner
cruise where that ended up animpromptu dance party, which was
I had a great time on the ghosttour, don't get me wrong, and
Noelle and Bryant were there,and it was a good time.
Goose is there, it was fun, butit was nothing compared to our
impromptu dance party.

SPEAKER_00 (47:16):
That was amazing dancing on the boat.
That was such a good time, yes.
So there's that part, right?
I know I love the intentionalitybehind that because connection,
memories, right?
Like real freaking lifeexperience.
Now, I've said the wordconference a few times, but I
want to be clear or maybe help.
Let's make it clear for people.

(47:37):
It's not like you're gonna sitthere and be talked at, or am I
wrong?

SPEAKER_01 (47:42):
No, I mean I hope nobody came away feeling like
they sat there being talked at.
That's definitely not theimpression that I got from
people.

SPEAKER_00 (47:47):
Good.
So programming for this for2026, when did you say?

SPEAKER_01 (47:52):
I didn't say the exact dates, but it's gonna be
June 3rd through 5th.

SPEAKER_00 (47:55):
Okay, so June.
That's what people were gonnaremember.
June.
Yep, we're gonna do June.
And in terms of the do you havea theme figured out?
Is it gonna be breakout,workshop-y, like roughly what
can people expect to be jealousabout because it's probably
gonna be invite only.

SPEAKER_01 (48:14):
Yes, it hope hopefully it will be invite
only, to be honest.
But so that's the big questionmark.
The content of the conferenceitself is the thing that I am
still trying to perfect.
I at the end of the day, I am anattorney, which makes me type A
and a perfectionist.
Right?
So I've iterated, I'vereiterated, I've bounced ideas,
I've talked to my own businesscoach about it, I've gone back

(48:35):
and forth and back and forth.
That is still up in the air.
But the one thing that will becertain is that there will be
tangible takeaways because Idon't go to conferences where
there aren't tangible takeaways.
There will be opportunities tocertainly build and strengthen
connections and relationships.
There will be opportunities toleverage those relationships

(48:56):
into business relationshipsbecause that has happened
naturally.

SPEAKER_03 (49:00):
Every time.

SPEAKER_01 (49:01):
Every time, and it's all natural.
There is not, we do not have anybuilt-in time, or we have not
had in the past two years, and Idon't think it will end up in
this year either.
There's no built-in time toforce that to happen.
It has happened naturally on itsown, both years where people
learn enough about each otherand make genuine enough
connections where they want tosend each other work and start

(49:22):
working together.
There have been several actualcollaborations that have arisen
directly out of Converge.
So that will definitely bethere.
It'll, I can guarantee you, goodtime.
I haven't had anybody thatdidn't have a good time.
And other than that, the contentitself is still being perfected.

SPEAKER_00 (49:38):
Yeah, yeah, good.
I think that's enough to say,holy hell.
And I want to like havingsimilar conversations about
other conferences that have thatforced like networking hour, and
here's the cards, and thatdoesn't work, but everybody does
it, right?
That's the that's what theyknow.
The converge experience thatjust happens, right?

(50:01):
And I was there in the firstone, I was there in the second
one, I'm gonna be there in thethird one.
And if I like the number onething, and now also I'm a people
person, right?
I like community likeconnection, but the number one
thing that really stands out tome is nobody comes selling their
wares, right?
People come to contribute andreceive, and through the process

(50:26):
of that, the connection happens.
And sure, there's the River Poatride, and there's other things
that I think contribute to theactual connection happening, and
so it seems to attract peoplethat have a business and they're
movers and shakers, they makestuff happen, but also want to

(50:48):
connect in a meaningful way, notin a transactional way.
And like maybe someday you'll doa study on it, but like how it
would be nice, or maybe on notnext year, but the year after
that.
Maybe you could just talk aboutit like, oh, yeah, this was this
is how I planned it to driveconnection and meaningful

(51:09):
connection.
And people are gonna say, Well,how?
Well, you gotta come to findout, right?
It's happened so consistently,yeah, that it's like you're
doing it on purpose, but what'sthe recipe?
Yeah, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 (51:22):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (51:23):
And so, folks, you may or may not get invited.
I'm gonna be there.
I'm excited, and I and again,I've been able to.
This is my brag, right?
I've been able to watch it.
When I say watch it, I'm talkingabout everything that Megan has
uh talked about the course, thespeaking, the branding, the

(51:46):
pink, like the conference,everything that's man.
Look at when I first saw thepost, I said, I get Megan makes
shit happen.
She's amazing, and she's notgonna get the help that she
should have to do this thing.
And I want to be a part of it,and the rest is history.
You let me come and visit andstay the weekend, meet the

(52:09):
family, meet the kids, hang outwith the husband, like eat
delicious pizza.
It's been magical.
Okay, so you now you have abusiness coach, and so you're
gonna love this question.
What's the five-year plan?

SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Oh my gosh.
Oh, golly, Jesse.
Hit me where it hurts onpurpose.
Okay, so I'm actually, I'm Idespite all of my disclaimers
about not being a businessperson and not really thinking
strategically, what I do followis ITR economics.
And they are an apolitical firmthat follows trends, they do all

(52:46):
the things, forecasting, all thethings that economists do.
I'm not an economist.
I never even took either macroor microeconomics.
I barely even understand thedifference between macro and
microeconomics.
But I sort of breaks it all downin a way that somebody like me
can even I can understand it.
And they've got a really greatlittle podcast.
It's six minutes, super easy toconsume, but I follow them

(53:07):
pretty closely, and they havetheir record for accuracy is
some something what?
Like 98.2% in accuracy for theirfor their economic predictions.
And they are predicting acapital D depression in the 30s.
I only mention that because thatwe're in 25 now.
We're now in the second half.

(53:27):
Somehow we are in the secondhalf of 2025.
Who knows how we got herealready?
We're somehow in the second halfof 2025.
So we're within that window nowwhere like we could be starting
to see the beginnings of thatcapital D depression at the end
of that five-year window thatyou asked about.
And so that has informed a lotof my thought processes behind
my five-year plan.
For that reason, I am definitelyfocusing on building out

(53:52):
Converge, growing thatintentionally.
And I want to emphasize that Iwant to grow it intentionally.
I do not want growth just forthe sake of growth.
My goal is not to be able tobrag about the number of people
who come or to brag aboutdoubling my attendees, although
I did double my attendees.
But the goal is not to bragabout it.
The goal is to build withintention, right?
Which is why it might be inviteonly.

(54:12):
I want to be intentional aboutwho's there, who's showing up,
so their value add, right?
So I want to intentionally growconverge over five years.
I want it to take the shape ofwhat it can be going into the
future, maybe international.
Yeah.
So I definitely have some realfive-year plan goals for
Converge.
With regard to the do-it-like alawyer and the construction

(54:33):
contract coach stuff, thatreally, and again, this is don't
do as I do because this is notgood business advice.
But I really truly am reallyhesitant to set intentional
goals, A, because when I did trythat, it all failed
spectacularly.
I couldn't have predicted thethings that have been
successful.
So with those two, my real goalin five for the next five-year

(54:54):
period is to continue to payattention to what people want
from me, how I can best serve,help them learn and grow, and
then continue to shape my offersand how I show up with that same
intentionality so that I'mgiving people what they need to
help support them in theirbusinesses so that they can be
successful in the constructionindustry because it's an
industry that adopted me.

(55:16):
We didn't get into my, I thinkwe did maybe in the first
podcast.
We didn't get into the storyabout how I ever even got
involved in construction in thefirst place.
But I fell into construction.
It was not an intentionalchoice.
I sort of fell into it and thenfell in love with it.
And so it's an industry that Ilove that has adopted me, that
has brought me in, that I haveadopted.
And so my goals are to justsimply continue to figure out

(55:37):
how I can best support theindustry and the people that are
in it.

SPEAKER_00 (55:40):
I love it.
I love it.
Because you already know the wayI roll.
I don't have a, I mean, I'll saythis I don't have a five-year
plan, but I definitely have adirect, right?
Like I am going in thisdirection.
This is what I'm going to do.
And because I learned that whenI make a plan because of how
obsessive I am, I have toexecute that plan.

(56:05):
And when I get that those kindof blinders on, I will filter
out opportunities to serve, eventhough that plan is a bad idea
or maybe causes me to playsmaller than what's possible.
So I'm like, forget, like I theywhat how much revenue?
I don't know.
Here's a number.

(56:25):
I just picked a number that waslike ridiculous, and I hid it.
I'm like, oh shit, that wasawesome.
Well, next year I'll do, I don'tknow, 1.5 that.
And oh shit.
Okay, those are it doesn't workfor me.
Yeah.
Right.
And I'm a I'm an addict.
And so if all I do is chasemoney, it's easy to get, I'm
gonna get in trouble.
Again, I'll end up, I'll needyou to call one of your criminal

(56:47):
lawyer friends to help me outover here in Texas.
Again, I don't think the havingthat detailed milestone plan
now, it works for some people,but for folks that like you that
are sharing their gifts andtalents and really just want to
serve others, I think havingthat one five year super

(57:07):
detailed milestone to out plancauses you to play small.
That's my personal opinion.
I'm living the amazingness ofnot doing it, you're living the
amazingness of not doing it liketo the nth degree.
And again, I think if you justfree yourself a little bit, you
can have greater impact on theworld.

(57:28):
Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 (57:29):
Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (57:31):
Okay, so we're gonna make sure we're gonna send
everybody put the link, MeganShapiro.com, because that's
where you can access the Meganuniverse, which is I know is
gonna continue to grow justbecause I've seen it and hell
two years, just over two years,like explosion.
So you are the first person forme to interview because you're

(57:54):
only you're the only personthat's had a second attempt at
answering the question.
Are you ready?

SPEAKER_01 (58:01):
Oh, yes, I know what the question is.
I remember it from last time.
Okay, are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 (58:07):
You are amazing.
You have inspired me, you'reinspiring people.
You let the big L's just rolloff your chest, maybe not, but
you keep coming back.
And and you answered it onetime.
Something tells me that theanswer might be a little
different this time.
Megan, what is the promise youare intended to be?

SPEAKER_01 (58:27):
So the first time I asked you what you meant by
that.

SPEAKER_00 (58:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (58:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And now, two-ish years later, Idon't need to ask you, not
because you answered it before,but because now I have lived it
enough to fully understand it.
For me, my answer is the promiseI am intended to be is to
continue to show upauthentically, to serve how I am

(58:51):
needed, not how, not necessarilyhow I want to serve, but how I
am needed to serve and to havefun and make connections along
the way.
Damn, it's like you didn'tpractice that, or did you?
Because I forgot.
I forgot that you end with, Ireally did, and so I didn't
practice that.
I didn't even give it anythought ahead of time.

SPEAKER_00 (59:10):
Oh, I love it.
I love it because yes, I'm withyou, girl.
I'm with you.
Oh my goodness.
Did you have fun?

SPEAKER_01 (59:17):
Of course.
I always have fun talking to youand hanging out with you.

SPEAKER_00 (59:20):
You're amazing.
Thank you for sticking it outall the way to the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on.
And in appreciation for the giftof time that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book, Becoming
the Promise You're Intended toBe.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.

(59:42):
There's a link in there.
You just click that button, youcan download the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate.
You sharing that increases thelikelihood that.
It's going to help one moreperson.

(01:00:03):
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be.
Be kind to yourself, be cool,and we'll talk at you next time.