No More Mediocre Leadership: Wally Adamchick’s Blueprint for Better Teams

n this episode, Jesse discusses the critical role of servant leadership in the construction industry with Wally Adamchick. They explore how a servant leadership mindset, which includes being respectful, setting expectations, and supporting employees, can lead to higher employee retention and profitability. Wally also talks about the importance of developing frontline leaders and the distinction between coaching, consulting, and training. The conversation touches on the specific challenges faced by subcontractors, the growing emphasis on mental health, and the new movement in the dirt world spearheaded by leaders like Aaron Witt. Throughout the episode, they emphasize the importance of contributing to others' growth and the personal fulfillment derived from it.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Overview

02:51 The Importance of Servant Leadership

05:16 Challenges and Misconceptions in Leadership

12:26 The Role of Coaching and Consulting

18:06 Expertise and Practical Experience

23:25 Focusing on Construction Leadership

35:37 Impact of Training on Operating Income and Quality of Life

36:14 Balancing Quality of Life and Profitability in Construction

37:28 Creating a Frontline Leadership Program

38:35 The Success Triangle: Technical Competence, Management, and Leadership

40:15 Challenges and Rewards of Leadership Development

42:55 The Importance of Contribution and Service

44:53 The Role of Culture in Employee Retention and Satisfaction

52:59 The Growing Movement in the Dirt World

57:58 People in Construction Report: Insights and Data

01:02:32 Closing Thoughts and Final Message

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https://calendly.com/jesse04/self-first-webinar

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Somebody says that's just the way I am, that's crap.

SPEAKER_02 (00:06):
What is going on, LM family?
I got another one here.
Somebody that I've beenfollowing.
Actually, when I startedfollowing him, I thought he was
like a theater major becausethere were different
personalities of him showing upon the LinkedIn.
And of course, all valuablestuff.
And so I got further into Mr.

(00:28):
Wally.
And just so y'all know, he hisgig, the work that he does, or
maybe more appropriately, thecontribution he's making to our
industry and this world istransforming leaders.
He helps companies retaintalent, which we're going to dig
into today, and also likedeliver profits.
So if anybody knows anythingabout profits or cares about

(00:51):
profits, this isn't just touchyfeely, let's train everybody and
get along.
It's always about businessresults.
He's a speaker, he's a coach,he's a consultant, and a whole
lot more.
We're going to get to learn allabout that, Mr.
Wally Adam Chick.
And before that, and if this isyour first time here, you're

(01:11):
listening to the Learnings andMissteps podcasts, where amazing
human beings just like you tellus about how they share their
gifts and talents to leave thisworld better than they found it.
I am Jesse, your selfishservant, and we're about to get
to know Mr.
Wally.
Mr.
Wally, how are you doing, sir?

SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
Well, I'm good.
I don't know if I'm as selfishas you are, but uh you know,
we're we're here for the samereason is that uh well, we want
to help people out.
So yeah, it's all about me tohelp you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:44):
That's it, man.
That's it.
I it's uh you know, I getaccused of being so altruistic.
Like, man, Jess, you just giveso much.
I'm like, yeah, but it's notlike I just give, I give because
it's what keeps me alive, it'swhat keeps me sober, it's what
keeps me sane.
Provided I'm contributing,things are great.
When I'm just on the take,things are not great.

(02:05):
I am not healthy, and that'sjust a waste.
And I mean, I know because I'velived it for way too long.

SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Well, there's a deep message there about service and
servant mentality, not you know,not rolling over and all of
those things, but when we lookat the neuroscience of this,
when we're giving, and notstupid, you know, I'm selling
all my how worldly possessions,but I have something I can give.

(02:33):
I got a little bit of knowledge,and you know, maybe I deliver it
in a way similar to you withDept Builder.
You know, maybe we deliver it ina way where people hear it.
There's a lot of noise outthere, but uh hopefully we're
delivering something that's gotsome value for folks, and you
know, yeah, that's why I wake upin the morning.

SPEAKER_02 (02:51):
Yes, sir.
Okay, so you said servingmentality, and I think it I
think we need to go a littledeeper there because you know, I
worked for a company, I workedfor TD industries for over 17
years, and the culture now theyhad like an intentional culture
this back in the early 2000s,right?
Before everybody was talkingabout culture, I'm sure you've

(03:13):
they they like started it inconstruction almost, and so now
their culture was one of servantleadership, and I struggled
early because I thought it meantlike be nice and you know, just
be a sweetheart, a big fluffypillow.
And it took me a little while tolike, wait a minute, it's not
just be nice, it's really berespectful, it's not just be

(03:38):
pleasant and accommodating, it'sset expectations and support
people to get there.
And if they can't get there,then there's other measures to
be taken.
So, in your work, when you thinkof this servant mentality, how
often do you see people maybeovershoot into the soft

(03:59):
tolerating mediocrity side, uhmaybe confusing what service
actually means?

SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
Yeah, you know, it's probably a bell curve, right?
Where that's you know thestandard distribution and
however what whatever chunk youwant to take of it.
But I'd say easily 10 to 15percent of the folks, the minute
they hear it, uh, they hearnice.
Yep.
Uh, and then there's another 10to 15 that hear like get run
over.
You know, and somewhere in themiddle is the goodness.

(04:27):
And and look, there's nothingwrong with being nice.
There's nothing wrong withholding the door open for
somebody when you see them atthe mini mart.
Yes.
And we should do those things atwork too.
But this is how do I help yougrow?
Now do I help you get throughthe door?
And that's where tough love maycome in, too, by the way.
Um, with accountability.

(04:47):
Hey, dude, we've had thisconversation three times.
You're gonna have to go hometoday and think about this, you
know.
And so, yeah, when we hearservant, it could go back to
some youth, some baggage, somemama's house issues, etc.
But you know, what we're reallytalking about is an intentional
collaboration to help you getbetter.
One of my favorite quotes is theanswer is yes.

(05:10):
Now, what was the question?
Right.
So, yeah, let's figure out howwe can do this.

SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
Yeah.
Now, okay, so you mentionedtough love.
Have you seen a change in theresponse or the willingness to
receive tough love over yourtime in the work that you've
done and the different rolesthat you serve because you've
done a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
You know, I want to say yes, but let me back up a
little bit and you know, talkabout what I, you know, the
construction industry as I seeit.
Now, I think this is no scienceto this whatsoever, but you'll
get it, and you're the listenerswill get it.
I would say, you know,two-thirds of the companies
across this constructionuniverse never want guys like
you and me to show up becausethey're doing fine.

(05:53):
Yes, you know, they're makingmoney, they're keeping the
lights on, and they're in theinsanity or the ignorance, and
it's fine.
There's the TDs and folks likethat who, you know, so what if I
go with my two-thirds tothree-quarters, you know, 20 to
30 percent of the industry iseither exemplary, like they set

(06:15):
the standard and they want tostay there, or they're
aspirational and they want toget there.
You know, I dare say I don'tthink I've ever changed the
culture.
I've helped people maintain theculture because a consultant is
not going to come in and changeyour world, we're gonna help you
change the world.

SPEAKER_02 (06:31):
Yes.
And I'm saying again, yes, youknow, yeah, it's one of my it
took me a while, but like thatfirst year, I had no idea what
the hell I was doing.
I still kind of don't, but I'mgetting better at it.
Anyways, the folks that reachedout that were expecting a
cultural transformation from aone-day pep rally training

(06:53):
session.
I said, sure, let's do it.
Hell yeah, so did I.
And then guess what?
Like it didn't happen.
They were pissed off at me, theywere disappointed, and so I had
to change the way I was lookingand responding to things like
like what you want.
I maybe it can be done with theone-day pep rally.

(07:13):
I don't know how to do the thingthat you want with the one-day
pep rally.
So here is what I'mrecommending, and or maybe you
just need to find somebody thatknows how to do it.
What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
Yeah, learning to say no, man.
I said no to some stupid stuff.
I mean, one of my favorites wastime management on a Saturday.
Like, yeah, yeah.
So, hey, it's time management.
Nobody wants that, nobody wantsto be there on Saturday.
And yeah, but look, anytimesomeone's starting a business,
and whether you just bought abackhoe, you say yes to almost

(07:47):
anything because of fear, norevenue, right?
So fortunately, I've learnedwhat to say yes to, and I've had
clarity on what I don't do, andyou still see this, you know,
people broadly in our space,they do this and this and this
and this.
I'm like, you can't, you youcan't do marketing and IT and

(08:07):
you know culture, and but that'suh fire beware, I guess, and
that's just part of the youknow, the real world.

SPEAKER_02 (08:15):
Yeah, well, and actually, great point.
You've been in your business forway longer than I have.
Like, how long does it take, ordid you start off kind of poking
around to figure out, okay, thisthat don't really work, that's
not really what I like, to getsuper clear about what to like
be the primary message, or didyou know that right out of the

(08:38):
gate?

SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
No, I don't think I knew it right out of the gate.
Uh, I again, yeah, teaching timemanagement and customer service
and all of those things.
I mean, I'm good in front of anaudience, and I certainly have
experience in those things, andI've been trained in some of
those things, depending on whereI was in my life, but that
wasn't my expertise.

(09:00):
Um, you know, and I it took me awhile to acknowledge my
experience and my expertise andthen dive into it.
And, you know, there's a part ofme, and I see my buddies in the
speaking world do this, andthey're out making, you know, 50
grand an hour for giving theirkeynote.
And I'm like, God, wouldn't thatbe great?
Yeah, it would be, but that'snot really who I am.

(09:21):
I mean, I get in there and hookand jab with you.
I'm on a job site at 6 a.m.
God help me, I hate that, butyou know, we start early in this
industry.
I'm a night person.
But right, to get out there andgo, hey, how's it going?
What's going on?
And I've spent more time on jobsites in the last year, probably
than in the last couple ofyears, COVID, et cetera.
Because I wanted to get back intouch with what's going on out

(09:42):
there, right?
You and I lecture and we coach,and look, it's based on a lot of
good stuff.
But get back out in the dirt,talk to the crews, talk to the
leaders.
And when they say, Hey, I sawyour video, or I loved what you
did last week, or you know,here's why it worked for me,
it's like, ding, yeah, thatstuff is still working because

(10:03):
the environment is changing.
And go back to this servantthing we started with earlier.
We never said lower thestandard, right?
The standard is still thestandard, it's just that
20-year-old 20-year-old who justshowed up on your job site, he's
not gonna put up with the trashthat you put up with, so or
she's not gonna put up with thetrash you put up with, right?

(10:26):
So getting staying in touchrequires, in my mind, expertise.
So, yeah, those keynoters arewonderful and they perform a
role, and I kind of envy themfor the money they make, but you
know, when the wife comes up toyou at the Christmas party and
looks at you and says, Are youWally?
And you're like, Yeah, and shethrows her arms around you and

(10:48):
says, I don't know what you didto him, but he's different.

SPEAKER_02 (10:51):
Yes, yes, you know, that's amazing because there was
a time when the wife came up tome at the Christmas party and
said, You're the SOB that keepsmy man away from my kids and me
on the weekends and holidays.
And I was like, I was that guy,right?
When I was out running work, wewe got a job to do.

SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Oh, yeah.
There's I got too many storiesthere.
It's interesting because in myhead, when I'm having those
types of conversations, right,about family and self-care and
these sort sorts of things.
I believe it 100%, and I'mworking like hell to practice
it, to like to be a practitionerof it, not just a freaking mouth

(11:37):
noiser about it.
But I also know how I wouldnaturally react if I was in
their situation, it would beeasy.
We got work to do if we don't dothe work, but it's a it's an
unsustainable model.
So comparing that to having youknow a family member come up and
say, Hey man, thank you, becausewhatever you're doing, it's

(11:58):
changed our relationshipentirely.
That is the beautiful thing.
So now, you know, you mentionedkeynote speakers making 50k per
engagement, which is I'm withyou, like damn it, man, that's
awesome.
Now, you in your on yourprofile, you list the word coach
and consultant, and you talkedabout how us as consultants can

(12:22):
go into a business, but we'renot going to transform and
sustain your culture.
Is there a difference betweencoaching and consulting and that
sort of thing?
Do you use it in it?
How do you think about the coachconsultant idea?

SPEAKER_00 (12:38):
Yeah, there's a lot of confusion out there, and what
I'll tell you is my opinion,right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, to me, coaching is moreone-on-one, helping you get
better at something.
Now, the problem with the wordcoach is we automatically take
it to the sports world.
Yeah, and you know, that's alittle bit different.
And I guess we could be doinggroup coaching as well.
But to me, consulting isorganizational.

(12:59):
Like, okay, you want to create aprogram, you want to develop
your leaders.
Here's a way to do that, justyou know, just the way any other
consultant would.
We have some level of expertise.
You could have that expertise inthe house, but it's expensive to
have it there.
You don't need it, you know, at365.

(13:21):
So yeah, you bring a consultantin, they they charge you a
little bit more than you knowwhat an hourly rate would be,
but they have that and it'sorganizational.
The coaching is more thanone-on-one.
And then, you know, is traininga separate word, and it probably
is, yes, right.
And that's where we're standingin front of you know 10, 20

(13:43):
people, 25, and deliveringcontent.
Now, this is where and youstarted earlier to talking about
profit and making money.
It all has to make sense and itall has to have a return on
investment.
So so whether it's training,coaching, consulting, whatever,
if it doesn't work, you shouldfire the person.
Um and but that's an admissionof something going wrong.

(14:07):
But ultimately, when we'retalking organizational change
and individual change, itrequires all of these things,
probably, right?
We have to have anorganizational view of what do
we want to accomplish.
We have to give skills to the,you know, a population of, you
know, say frontline leaders whoare trying to learn leadership.
And then there may or may not besome specific one-on-one

(14:29):
coaching in there to say, hey,you know, you're the general
superintendent, you're kind ofthe linchpin on this.
Let's spend some time together.
So it really is a design buildapproach.
Yes.
Uh, when we put somethingtogether, you have to understand
context, right?
National, local, regional,self-performed, not so like all

(14:49):
of these things are relevant toget maximum ROI.
And it's why when we go back tothe conversation about expertise
earlier, like we have tounderstand that that playing
field, so to speak.
It's like we don't bring highschool solutions into division
one, right?
Plistic, they don't work.

(15:10):
And it's why you would neverhear you or me say cement mixer.
They don't exist, right?
It's a ready mix truck.
But we've all seen that speakercome in and try to make that
connection, and it's like, yeah,no.
And ultimately, it's not thatthey're looking in uninformed,
it's that it's disrespectful tothe audience, yes, to these, to

(15:31):
these trades people and builderswho they just want life to be a
little bit better, but don'twant isn't that what we all
want?

SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
We're gonna do the LM Family Member shout-out.
This one goes out to long timesupporter Miss Kirby Coates.
She says, There are not enoughwords to share about the depth
builder experience.
Jesse built programs based onreal people and real experiences
to better people in real life.

(16:03):
He has a true passion to helpall people, and it shows through
every program he has created,jump in and grow.
So, Kirby, thank you.
Super, super thank you forleaving that very thoughtful
review on the Google.
I'm fancy now.
I got a Google page where I canget reviews.
So y'all already know, folks, Ilove attention.

(16:23):
And so anytime you go above andbeyond to leave me a comment on
the socials or leave a review,it gives me an excuse to
celebrate you in the future.
So please do so, even if they'restinky.
I like the stinky ones too,they're super helpful.
Yes, oh man.
So amen.

(16:43):
I love that you threw trainingin there because you know, when
I'm talking to people, it'slike, well, what do you do?
I was like, Well, this is what Ido.
Like, well, what does that mean?
I was like, okay, let me say ita different way.
I consultant, coach, andtrainer.
And they're like, like allthree.
I'm like, it depends on the day,depends on the day, right?
It depends on the ask.
Like, I like the way you saiddesign build, because for some

(17:04):
firms, they've got a pretty bigoperation going on and they've
got multiple layers, and it'sdesign build.
Like, okay, here's what do youwant to achieve?
What's the intended outcome?
Here's my recommendation forthis level of the organization,
this level of the organization,and out there in the field.
And there's a mix of coaching,consulting, and training
throughout the thing.

(17:26):
Now, I think the other importantpart that you've mentioned, and
I want to like clarify this, atleast from Jesse Land, right?
The in my perspective, the ideaof expertise.
Because, and I need you like tocorrect us or get correct me if
I'm wrong or if there's anythingmissing.
Because for the LM family memberout there that's listening, I

(17:49):
know a lot, and I used to bethis way.
I was stuck in like, well, Ican't, like, I've never done
that before.
I don't have the expertise, Idon't have the experience.
And so it was this limiting, itwas this block in front of me
that I allowed to keep me fromit's like spanning my wings,
right?
And so, in terms of liketraining, facilitation, and all

(18:10):
of that, what I learned, becauseI did it wrong early on, is I've
done presentations this a longtime ago on things that I had
never I had no experience with.
It was a concept or an idea thatsounded cool and great, and so I
did a training on it, but don'task me no questions because my
answer was you gotta look it up,you gotta read this book.

(18:33):
I couldn't give any practicalfirsthand experience of me
having done it.

SPEAKER_00 (18:37):
Yeah, well, we call that a book report.

SPEAKER_02 (18:39):
Well, there you go.
I love that.
I was doing book reports, andwhen I did that, I had zero
expertise on the matter, and itwas not fun, it was
uncomfortable for me, and I knowthe people in the room were
like, What the hell was this?
Right?
Like this was and now withYouTube, like you could just
watch it on YouTube now,anyways.

(19:00):
So, fast forward to like thequestion of expertise.
The simplest way I can like makesense of that for me, and maybe
for other people, is expertiseis me talking, helping, sharing
something that I have wrestledwith to some degree that I have
an insight and understandingabout, which is not really that

(19:22):
I notice I didn't say number ofyears, number of certifications.
I said firsthand experience inwrestling and getting dirty and
messy with it, and coming tosome kind of understanding or
insight that I can share.
How does that land with you,Wally?

SPEAKER_00 (19:36):
It lands really good.
Let me give you my take on it.
Expertise is you can see optionsin doing the thing while you're
doing the thing.
So a teenager is driving.
How far out is their scan?
It's the radio, right?

(19:57):
And all of a sudden they seebrake lights in front of them.
And they mash on the brake.
Right.
We're driving and we're seeingas far out in the front as we
can.
We're doing the thing.
We're driving.
But we see some brake lights aquarter mile out.
And we're like, brake lights.
Oh, brake lights are there.
Oh, maybe I should move my footoff the gas.
I don't have to do like theoptions are going.

(20:20):
Options and doing the thingwhile I'm doing the thing.
All right, I'm starting to touchthe brakes.
Now I'm looking for my bailoutsbecause this might not work.
Looking for options.
So I walk down to a job site.
I see things.
I don't see the things that thesuperintendent sees because they
see options in doing the thing.
They have expertise.

(20:41):
So here's what I say from acoaching perspective when it
comes back to our world.
If your coach can't give youfive ways to solve your problem,
they may not be an expert.
Yes.
You know, they say, oh, what youneed to do is I don't know.
That's somebody giving youorders.
Right.
You know, expertise says, Well,you could do this.
I don't know if it's a reallygood idea, but you could do it.

(21:03):
You could do this.
You could do this.
You could do this.
And here's the problem withexpertise is you think you know
the answer, and then you becomeless of a listener.
Yeah.
And that is the risk for leadersbecause they have been there,
they have done that, they haveseen it fail or work.

(21:24):
And then when the 22-year-oldcomes on the job site, they're
like, Yeah, that was stupid.
Shut up and dig.
And then the kid never saysanother word.
So long answer, long, longanswer.
Expertise is you can see optionsin doing the thing while you're
doing the thing.

SPEAKER_02 (21:38):
Yeah.
And I think the connection is itcomes from having done the damn
thing.
Like if you've never done it,you won't know.

SPEAKER_00 (21:46):
Yeah.
Or you know, if you spend enoughtime around it, though, that
substitutes.
Like, I don't have to get bloodyto understand a bandage is
required when someone isbleeding, right?
Sure, sure.
Right.
So, you know, one of one of myfavorite ones is the restaurant
industry.
Like, they teach you how tohandle a robbery.

(22:07):
That's something you neverreally want to be an expert in,
right?
Right.
Um, but yes, I mean, and so nowit are we just talking to a
practitioner or an expert.
Yeah, somebody who has beendoing it for a long time truly
may not be expert.
They just may be repeating thesame play, tired play, you know,

(22:28):
and it says, Well, I have 20years of experience.
No, you have one year 20 times.
Yes.
Uh, and welcome to 2025, welcometo 2026.
Means and methods are changing,demographics are changing,
technology is changing.
You cannot walk in andautomatically apply the solution
that worked last year, lastmonth, whatever, last decade.

(22:51):
It may be the right solution,but it has to be more thoughtful
now than it than it has been.

SPEAKER_02 (22:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Take into account the newconditions, right?
Like, what did like sure thatplay worked under those
conditions?
Exactly.
What are the conditions we're innow?
The people, the all of thethings that and I am guilty of I
know the answer, release thekraken, and it did not work.

(23:18):
Now, you play a lot in theleadership space in the
construction leadership space.
Why did you pick constructionleadership?

SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
Yeah, I'm an idiot.
You know, what can I say?
Dusty, dirty, male, in yourface.
My brother and dad wereconstruction guys in New York
City when I grew up.
Nice.
So when I was 13, 14, I was ahelper on union jobs in New York
City.
And we all know what a helpermeans, you know, doing all that

(23:50):
crap stuff, all the way up intocollege.
And uh, so the real answer isthis is in my blood.
No, I'm I no, I'm not a builder,right?
I can't hop on a machine on 10different machines and make it
sing.
That's but the fundamentalrespect and understanding of
what these crafts people, whatthese construction folks do day

(24:16):
in, day out, it's in my blood.
And when I'm standing acrossfrom a foreman on a job site,
it's as if I'm hanging out withmy brother.
Uh, you know, a little banter,maybe a little BS, a little
bravado, respect.
Yeah.
But respect and they look,people feel that.

(24:36):
They don't feel wally with anMBA and a CSP and a CMC and all
that stuff.
They don't feel that.
They don't care about that.
They want to care that mysolutions work for them and that
I understand them.
So why construction?
I don't know.
Maybe God put me here.
Um, but this is where I am, andit's where I'm, you know.

(24:57):
And early on, right, I was like,oh, I'm gonna be all things to
all people, right?
Back when we were teaching timemanagement on Saturdays, and
it's like something just embracewho you are and recognize yes,
there are other places you couldbe doing things, but this is who
I am, and you know something, itworks pretty damn well.

SPEAKER_02 (25:15):
Yeah, man, yeah, 10 for I mean, everybody knows my
story, it came up through thetrades, and so it's like this is
where I need to go.
I know recently I've made Idon't know how obvious it is,
but I'm working on that.
I made a little shift to reallyspeak to subcontractors, right?
Foreman, super superintendents,like the people that work for

(25:36):
the subcontract, because that'swhere my expertise is.
I spent over 20 years like doingthe thing at various levels on
the subcontractor side, but Ijust wasn't doing a very good
job at speaking to them, saying,Hey, I'm gonna help you.
Right.
Which is not bad, but it's therewas some period of time where

(25:57):
I'm like, okay, I could do thisfor everybody, which didn't
help, right?
I was just kind of outstandingon the corner, screaming into
nowhere, and then I said, Okay,no construction, and now I'm
like, you know what?
I'm gonna scope in a littletighter specifically for
subcontractors, because therearen't a lot of people serving
subcontractors, A, and B, thereare even fewer with my we'll say

(26:21):
resume or pedigree, right?
Coming up as an installerforeman, worked for general
contractors, works for owners,and having that kind of broader
view or understanding of howlike the commingling or the
dance that is construction.
So when you're out there, Imean, we talked about this a
little while ago, right?
There, there's there's thesuper, super high performing

(26:42):
outfits out there that want tojust stay on the front edge and
still kick butt.
There's some the majority, I'mgonna say majority, that are
like, hey, it's fine, leave usalone, we ain't got time for
you.
And then there's the other onesthat the sky is falling down,
they need an intervention.
And so, in terms of the folksthat you serve, right?
The organizations that youserve, what's the ratio between

(27:07):
wanting to stay on the frontedge and oh my god, we need a
freaking transfusion?

SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, I would say 80% are on the you know the
good side.
Oh yeah, yeah, no, really lucky.
The ones that need atransfusion, they're usually so
small that they're in thatcrisis mode, uh, you know, owner
trying to figure it out,whatever.
And I just don't spend a lot oftime there.
You know, your larger firm, soyou get over a couple hundred

(27:34):
million in this subcontractorworld, you know, they're
established and their criseslook different.
Oh, yeah.
Um, right.
So they're not in that supercatastrophic mode, usually,
because there's enough decentpeople around them to do the
intervention or help with theintervention.

(27:55):
Yes.
Now there are individuals withinthose organizations that get
promoted to take your chiefestimator, or you know, you're
not going to be the VP of opsunless, you know, dot.
So that's where coachingone-on-one coaching for six
months to a year would come in.
And we say, hey, can we can wedo behavioral change here?
The answer is yes in most cases,by the way.

(28:16):
Like coaching does work if youchoose to work.
And you and I are both from aprogram where we learned how to
do the work and you cantransform your life and get
sober and all of those things.
So, you know, when somebody saysthat's just the way I am, that's
crap.
Yes, that's how you choose tobe.
Now, we're talking neurosciencethat may have been established

(28:36):
when you're seven, eight, nine,ten years old, and you're
significantly baked by the ageof 15.
Like your neural pathways, asmuch as we have neuroplasticity,
you some of it you're just notgoing to change.
But there's a piece that youcan, and you know, that's when
the wife comes up to you at theChristmas party.
So we know it's possible.
Yeah.

(28:56):
Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_02 (28:58):
I get the question of what's the best scenario for
change to stick?
Is it like preemptive?
Get on the front end and teachand coach and like let all the
flowers bloom, or is it when theshits hit the fan?
And I'm like, philosophically,it's preemptive, right?

(29:20):
When did Noah build start beforethe floods?
But yeah, in practice, it's whenthe shit's hitting the fence.

SPEAKER_00 (29:28):
Yeah, it ain't working anymore.
We need to do somethingdifferent.
Yes, you know, you know, you'reright about both of those.

SPEAKER_02 (29:33):
Yeah, and it's exactly that, right?
The pain, I'm I'm not sure whosequote it is, but like the pain
of doing the same has exceededthe pain of change.
So now people are more receptiveto doing it differently.
Whereas on the front end, doingit on the front end, which I'm a
huge proponent of, it just takeslonger for it to like really

(29:56):
stick than you know the reactiveapproach.

SPEAKER_00 (29:59):
What's the phrase?
You got sick and tired of beingsick and tired, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (30:03):
So, yeah, exactly.
All right, so we mentioned atthe beginning that you've helped
these companies deliver profits,and we've talked a little bit
about consulting and coachingand training.
So, what's the connectionbetween the types of services
that you and I provide,attraction and even retention of

(30:24):
talent, and profits?

SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
Yeah, so it's a math problem that if culture is
better, so I'll broadly say thatbecause leaders are not jerks
and those kinds of things.
If culture is better, peoplechoose to stay.
Because we all know the linethat people don't leave
companies, they leave bosses,right?
So if I've got a great companyand I've got a great boss,

(30:47):
people choose to stay.
What does that mean?
Well, that means turnover wentdown.
How much?
Probably about 20%.
Uh if you compare, you know,expert with good, and then it's
probably another 15% if you goto like you suck.
But so so there's a measurabledecrease in turnover, which we
know increases safety, increasesproductivity, and those two

(31:11):
things then increaseprofitability.
Yeah.
Now, I'll give you another wayof looking at it from a guy who
implemented all these things andcreated an incredible training
center, etc.
Many times great place to worksince he started the initiative.
They're growing like crazy in agood market in the southeast.
He says, You know something,Wally?
I don't know what the ROI is, Ijust know my life is a hell of a

(31:34):
lot easier.

SPEAKER_02 (31:35):
Yes, yeah, you know, I want to be rude, Wally.
It I get in these con not allthe time, and it's usually a red
flag of like, oh, we're gonna wemay or may not have a long-term
relationship here, right?
Right.
Is the well, what's the data?
What's the ROI?
What's the ROI?
I'm like, okay, I appreciateyour question.

(31:58):
And in my head, what I'mthinking is, what was the data
analysis you did on gettingmarried?
What was the data analysis youdid on deciding to have
children?

SPEAKER_00 (32:12):
Like, I understand where you're because if you did
that analysis, you wouldn't havehad children, right?

SPEAKER_02 (32:18):
Like, what's the ROI on that?
Oh, you're gonna be negative atleast a million dollars per
child, like over the lifetime.
Yeah, like um for real, this iswhat we're gonna talk about, but
I understand it, and I'm withyou, right?
There is a connection, there isa line between I mean, how many?
I'm sure you've heard this manytimes.

(32:39):
It seems like every training Ido, or whatever, consulting,
whatever I'm doing, there'sfolks in the room, 15, 20, 30
year veterans in the industrythat will say, Man, I've been
around since you know, whatever,and this is the first time I
ever got any training.
You get that?

SPEAKER_00 (32:59):
All the time there that that crew lead is the most
underserved and you know on theface of the earth.
One day somebody gave him somekeys and a tool and a clipboard,
now keys and an iPad, and said,You're in charge.
And God bless them, they pull itoff.
But yeah, we'll transition intowe got a mental health issue.
Oh, and part of it is because webury these guys.

SPEAKER_02 (33:21):
Yeah, totally.
I mean, that was that was whatthat experience is what
motivated me early in my careerwhen I was superintendent at the
time.
Well, it was also money, right?
Because the company I workedwith was an employee-owned
organization, and we got bonusesby the project, anyways.
When I got to superintendentlevel, I just assumed all the

(33:42):
other foremen they kind of didthe same thing.
And I like they did not.
And like the experience was Iwas pretty good at installing.
I got promoted, I sucked.
They told me I sucked for ayear, I figured out I got
better.
Then I got promoted again.
They told me I sucked for ayear, right?
And now I'm a workaholic, so Ilove the challenge and I'm super

(34:03):
competitive.
And so I put in a ton of time,not just like doing the job
wrong, but learning how to doit, like for real, learning how
to read the estimates and how tomake labor projections based on
what the estimate is and ourproduction rates are.
And then I'm like, why aren't wewhy aren't we teaching our guys
this?
We're just now don't get mewrong, the comp like it was TD

(34:24):
Industries, they have aphenomenal leadership
development program, which gaveme a lot of tools on like how to
like deal with people and maybemanage myself a little bit more,
but they did nothing, they hadnothing that helped me be a
better foreman, that helped mebe a better superintendent, like

(34:47):
to do it within the context ofthat organization, yeah.
And so that's where the trainfor me, I'm like, I'm gonna
teach my guys how to how do youplan?
What are the key characteristicsof an actionable plan?
How do you measure theperformance of the plan?
How do you learn from that?
And now I was doing it one tohelp them, but also because I

(35:08):
was, you know, I wanted mybonus.
And if they did a better jobplanning, I got a bigger bonus,
or we got bigger bonuses.
And so what I could also see isan employee owner of the company
was man, there was that foremanand the superintendent leap
where people either made it andthey were like it was extremely
taxing for that person, yeah,and it was very expensive for us

(35:33):
because there was a lot ofmistakes and right, like super,
super expensive.
And the same thing at thesuperintendent level.
And so when we started doing thetraining, I was doing it at the
bar with my buddies, right?
Like, hey man, I'll show you howI read the estimate and the
budget and whatever.
And then eventually I becameresponsible for doing the thing.
We saw a dramatic impact, likedramatic impact, yeah, in terms

(35:57):
of operating income, huge, itwas amazing, but we also, which
I wasn't paying attention toback then, saw major impact in
like the quality of life ourforeman and superintendents were
experiencing, which wassomething I did not pay
attention to back then.
Now I do, and so in terms oflike quality of life for the

(36:19):
folk the frontline leaders, isthat your primary focus, like
that audience?

SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
So, no, this isn't about quality of life, this is
about a construction companymaking money.
However, when I stand in frontof dudes, I'll say, Hey, here's
what the deal is.
If you do some of this stuff,you'll have more smiley faces
and more dollar signs on the jobsite.
So it is about quality of life.
And I don't, I you know, I inthis oh, by the way, we never

(36:52):
said low of the standard, right?
Let's go back to thatconversation, right?
These are not mutually exclusiveconcepts.
You can you can have greatculture, you can make a ton of
money.
Oh, but why this isconstruction, you don't
understand.
No, I do understand, like itrained Tuesday through Thursday.
We're paving on Saturday.

(37:13):
I'm sorry, like it's going tohappen.
And nobody has a problem withthat.
We haven't had rain in nineweeks, and we're paving on
Saturday, right?
You know, that's where we missit.
But you were talking earlierabout what you began to train
when you were in the supervisoryrole.

(37:34):
When we help create a frontlineleadership program, about half
of it is my stuff.
About half of it, and we'retalking six, eight days of
training here over, you know, acouple of months, could be
planning, right?
For sure.
Hopefully they've learned that,but short it will scheduling.
How do we create an estimate?
One of the most fascinatingclasses because nobody knows how

(37:57):
the estimate is created.
Right.
And you know, if you're talking,you know, a dirt guy, for
example, they've got Ag Tech andGoogle Earth and this and that.
They've got a hundred thousanddollars worth of software just
to put the bid together, right?
So, and they're out therewalking the job and they're
flying it with drones, and thefield guys are going, oh, you
really didn't just throw a dartat a dart board?

(38:18):
Equipment utilization, right?
How much are you gonna charge mefor this D7 and why, et cetera?
These are fascinating points,but they enable this frontline
leader now to make betterdecisions, yes, and to explain
to the team.
So, yeah, the things there.
So I think there's a pyramid,uh, not a pyramid, a triangle.

(38:38):
I talk about I call the successtriangle.
At the base of the triangle istechnical competence.
You know how to pull wire, youknow how to paint, you know how
to dig, whatever that craft is.
Like you have to have thatfoundational piece.
Then we move into management,which is the planning, the
organizing, those kinds ofthings, understanding the bid,

(39:00):
et cetera.
And then there's leadership,which arguably is generic,
right?
How do you how do you get alongwith people, et cetera?
There's nuances within ourindustry about culture, the way
people are and stuff like that.
But you got to do all of thosethings.
And what you talked about is youwent through those three

(39:21):
progressions.
Like you were good, you gotpromoted, you suck.
You were good, you got promoted,you sucked, right?
And you went through thoseprogressions and you made it.
And a lot of guys are doing it,but they haven't made it.
And what I mean by that is lifeis brutal.
Yes.
And they go home and they don'tsee their kids, and it's all

(39:41):
right, like even in the bestweeks, you know, they're long
hours.
So it doesn't have to suck.
It's gonna be hard, but itdoesn't have to suck.

SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
Yes, you're exactly right.
It's like sprints or doinghills, like it's gonna hurt, but
it doesn't.
Have to suck.
And it gets better.
It gets better.
You gotta put in the work.
But I think, you know, one of myI think my whiny wines of today,
and this is just more evidenceof how hypocritical I am, Wally.

(40:15):
I agree and believe to my heartthat as a journeyman, whatever,
doesn't matter what trade, partof your responsibilities as a
journeyman is to developapprentices, right?
To teach them and train them andhelp them get better at the
trade.
Same thing as foreman, samething as superintendent.
I believe that, and that's theway I did my job.
Now, here's my gripe.

(40:37):
Companies do nothing toreinforce and appreciate that.
So when a company has anindividual that has that heart
mindset or that leadershiptrait, they're lucky because
very and maybe I'm the net's toobroad.
There are very few companiesthat have actually earned that

(40:59):
leadership from theirindividuals.
Most of them just expect it butdo nothing to nurture, develop
it, and like propagate it.
What do you think?
Am I talking smack?

SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
No, you're not.
I you know, I remember talkingto a guy who's a regional
manager years back, and it'slike every 18 months they were
taking his project engineersaway, you know, to go be project
managers elsewhere and regionalmanager.
And uh, you know, there was nobonus for that.
I mean, it was just in his DNA,but it's almost like the company
expected him to, you know,develop that next project

(41:34):
engineer, etc.
Look, I think that if you're aleader, it's in your DNA.
You make new leaders.
Yep.
If you're an apprentice, ifyou're a journeyman, you make
new journeyman, right?
It's the same concept.
It is interesting though how weall forget we were all
knuckleheads once.
Yep, right.
Somebody helped you, somebodyhelped me.

(41:57):
Now it might have been behindthe dumpster, right?
Or it might have been overcoffee, either one, but every
single one of us had help alongthe way.
And if listeners do one thingcoming out of this call, is
right now when I say it, who canyou help?

(42:18):
Somebody's name went throughyour mind.
Oh, yeah, right.
Okay, that's your project.
You know, lean in a little bitmore, get to know them a little
bit more.
Maybe you know exactly what theyneed, right?
You know, and maybe they canstart doing the daily huddle or
something like that, whatever.
But every single one of us gothelped, and we go back to
servant when we started thiscall, right?

(42:39):
Who are you gonna help?
It's an easy takeaway.

SPEAKER_02 (42:43):
Yeah, totally.
And back to the selfish servant,like that gives me fulfillment,
right?
Have an interesting relationshipbetween profits and fulfillment,
quality of life.
I'm an addict, right?
And I will be, it's just it's inmy DNA, baby, period.
Yeah, and when I started mybusiness, like I set a revenue

(43:07):
goal, a revenue target for theyear, and I'm blessed because I
blew that freaking thing out ofthe water within the first less
than six months.
It was like four months, andlike, whoa, I need to set a
bigger target.
So I set a bigger target and Iblew that thing out of the water
again.
And then I was like, wait, okay,I'm an addict.

(43:27):
If I keep just chasing thesedollar goals, I'm I'm on a
slippery slope, right?
Like, I have a lot of things inplace that keep me sober and on
the contribution path, but I'mbuilding me a slide down, is
what I was doing.
And so I had to change my focus.
Okay, what are the things of theservices that I provide?

(43:48):
Which one give me the mostfulfillment?
And then I said, Okay, oh man,those are the least profitable.
Well, come on, big boy! Like,you this is if this is the goal,
this is the goal.
So I had to change it.
So back to the selfish servantand this idea of profitability
and quality of life.
Like, I have to focus oncontribution and service so that

(44:09):
I can stay alive.
If I focus on the other things,and I'll also add to that,
right?
Focusing on quality of life andserving others has produced
enormous profit.
I don't have the same outcome ifI flip the focus.

SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
Does that make sense, Wally?
No, it totally does.
If I increase the capacity of myteam, that makes my life easier,
yeah.
Right.
So when I teach somebody how touh do a walk around or how to uh
whatever, whatever, when Iincrease the capacity of my
team, that makes my life better.
So that that means I I don'thave to micromanage, maybe I can

(44:48):
get out of work on time.
You know, one of the phrasesI'll ask is what's going to
cause somebody to take thebullet for you?

SPEAKER_01 (44:54):
Oh, ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
Meaning, you know, it's Friday afternoon, we're
dirt guys, there's a tropicalstorm coming in, and Jose makes
the decision to walk the job onemore time to make sure erosion
control is in place.
Yeah, right.
That's what we're trying, andwhat does that do?
That creates more smiley facesand more dollar signs, right?

(45:17):
Because everyone kind of, youknow, good things are happening.
So I'm totally with you.
So, you know, it is it reallyselfish?
No, I mean, we all win when wedo it.
It's and that's a growthmindset, yes, right?
It's not a deficit mindset of,oh, if I give to you and I are
competitors, yeah, we do theexact same thing for the exact

(45:40):
same people in a severaltrillion dollar industry.
Yeah, I'm fairly confident I'mstill gonna be able to put food
on the table, though I have donethis, right?
Yes, so and I think you'restarting to see this in the
industry, right?
These top contractors inwhatever trade in the dirt world

(46:00):
that the dirt world guys havedone it with this dirt world
summit and Aaron Witt andBuildwit.
I mean, you're right.
And you have if you havecompetitors coming together, no
collusion, none of that, butsaying, What are you doing on
the people front?
What do you do?
Like the best thing I want isfor you to be superior because

(46:21):
what happens is somebody paidyou and said it was worth it to
bring in an outside person, andthen maybe they'll bring me in
or go to a different company orwhatever, right?
If you suck, then by reputation,I suck, right?
So this elevation of theindustry is absolutely

(46:42):
happening, and there's plenty ofroom for this.

SPEAKER_02 (46:46):
Oh, absolutely.
You know, uh when I firststarted my little business, it's
just me, right?
It's just me kind of tinkering.
I was asking folks, like, hey,do you have a proposal?
Like, I don't know any, like,what do I need to know?
Can you give me a template?
And there were a couple ofpeople there like, like, Jess,
you're just gonna have to figureit out.
Like, they had this scarcitymindset, yeah, yeah.

(47:07):
Which I understand, like, I getit.
It's not the game I play, I getit.
And but the thing that goesthrough my head, even now when
I'm working with companies,they're like, Well, you know,
you can't, you got to keep thisa secret.
I'm like, you know what?
You I will, but you're not doinganything dramatically different
than anybody else, likeproprietary, like from a sp uh
perspective of proprietary valueor intellectual property.

(47:30):
It's like y'all are doing thesame things.

SPEAKER_00 (47:33):
It's you're pretty well thinking, you know, uh
Alabama, pretty good footballteam, right?
Yeah, everybody knew what NickSaban was doing, right?
They could see the plays, theyknew what he did from a culture
perspective because he went outand lectured on it.
They hired his assistants, theywent and did it other places.
There was there are no secretsthere.

(47:53):
Yeah, there is a secret sauce,right?
And that's how does that allcome together?
Yes.
Now, I know my cynics are gonnago out there and go, Well,
they're not doing it anymore.
Context changed, NIL changedeverything, right?
So, this we talked about contextearlier.
So, no, no, don't be a jerk andtreat people with respect is not

(48:14):
exactly proprietary.
But how does that really come toyou know for in your company if
you have an owner who says it oran owner who believes it?
Yeah, and and that's verydifferent.

SPEAKER_02 (48:27):
Amen.
Amen.
100.
And none of us can handle allthe work if we got it, anyways,
right?
Let's just say that.
Like, for real, I couldn't.
My systems are not set up tohandle all of the work that is
available.
I don't want all the work.

SPEAKER_00 (49:32):
Well, that gets into the thing our contractors get
into.
Well, I'm just gonna hire morepeople, and then you lose
contact with the customer andyou lose quality, and that's a
decision you get to make, yeah,right.
That's a choice you get to make.
I have buddies who runmulti-multi-million dollar
businesses and have 40employees.
Yeah, yeah.
You know something?
I like having, I'm gonna use theword an intimate relationship

(49:54):
with the owners or presidentsthat I work with.
So, you know, that there's thisdeep level of trust where I
could probably pick up thephone, you know, and there's
your popular client, you know,the people you're working with
right now, right?
And call and go, hey, I got aquestion.
I have a question of you.
And they're like, Yeah, what'sup, Wally?
Well, I don't want sorry tobother you on Friday, you know.

(50:16):
It's like, don't worry about it,brother.
It's cool.
What's up?
Yeah, you know, and but thethose are the type of people we
associate with, those are thetype of people who want to get
better.
And I wasn't always that way,you aren't always that way, but
you step into the light of thisservant mentality, this growth

(50:37):
mentality, and people are outthere listening to me going, you
drank some Kool-Aid, you know,like woo-woo.
No, like, whoa, yeah, right.
I've been in great cultures andI've been in crappy cultures.
Everybody out there has been ingreat cultures and crappy
cultures.
And now here's a reality checkfor some of our listeners.
You're hostage to where you are,you're afraid to leave.

(51:00):
Because now, this the economyright now maybe not a good time
to leave, but right, if itsucks, there's a better place
out there.
There really is.
100%.

SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
100%.
I think from two perspectives, Iknow a lot of people that I want
to be a senior PM, I want to bea senior, they want a promotion.
I like all that.
Right, yeah.
I was like, that's easy.
Quit your job, go apply foranother job, and tell them you
want the time.
They'll give you the like you'llthey'll hire you, they need you,
and they'll give you more money,too.

(51:30):
And however, yeah, exactly.
Like, are you one?
Is it really what you want?
Do you know what you're askingfor?
And two, it doesn't mean thesame thing everywhere you go.
Right, senior PM, it don'tmatter, like company to company,
there are different expectationsor different levels of
performance, and the idea ofgetting that little promotion,

(51:54):
that change in title, maybethere's something deeper that
needs to be examined andunderstood before you go make a
big giant mess of things becauseyou haven't got the title that
you want.

SPEAKER_00 (52:06):
Well, and the culture at your current company,
you know, maybe superior, right?
But you go over, I never forgeta guy came up to me at World of
Concrete a couple years back,you know, 400 people in the
room.
He comes up, hey, how you doing?
I'm like, Oh Christ, here we go.
He goes, Yeah, you know, I'mlistening to what you're saying.
I'm like, Oh, here we go.
Um, because I'm talking aboutgreat culture.
And he says, a couple of yearsago, I said, he says, a couple

(52:28):
years ago, I said, F theculture, I'm going for the
money.
I'm like, okay, how long did youstay?
He goes, Oh, nine months,couldn't take it.
You couldn't pay me enough to bethere, yeah.
So the you know what's the grassis always greener, but just
they're gonna mow the lawn orwhatever.
Oh, yeah.
Um, right, but it's reallytough.
So here we are saying, look, youcan leave and go somewhere else.

(52:51):
Yeah, but really take a goodlook.
Now, if your world truly sucks,then yeah, you probably need to
go.
But if it's like, you know, Icould make 10% more across the
street, yeah, but they don'trespect you across the street.
They think I had a guy say thisto me once, he goes, I don't
know how people why people wouldwant to go there.

(53:11):
We pay more.
Yeah, won't go.
And it was about Granite Rock,which back with TD, they were
like the founding the foundationmembers of the great culture
club in construction, documentedfrom a great place to work
perspective.
Great point, right?
But there was a competitor ofGranite Rock saying, Well, we
pay more, we must be better.
And it's like, oh no, I've seentheir PL, buddy.

(53:34):
You ain't better.

SPEAKER_01 (53:35):
Yeah, you have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 (53:38):
Yeah, okay.
So there's two more points Iwant to hit on before we get
into the Grand Slam question.
So you mentioned the dirt world,and from my perspective, it may
just be straight up ignorance,my own ignorance, but I feel
like the energy in the dirtworld, like there's the summit.

(53:59):
I don't know if it's theirsecond or third year they've had
it, but there just seems to be avolcano of energy and messaging
and like freaking amazingleaders along with the summit
and you know, all of that.
Am I did I just miss it before,or did it just kind of hit the
scene and like it's taking over?

SPEAKER_00 (54:21):
It's it's a recent thing, it really is what Aaron
Witt has created over the lastseven years, I guess.
Yeah, and you know, you haveinternet and vision and passion
and borderline stupidity, youknow, in trying to create a
movement.
But he it so no, it is, andthat's where I'm spending a lot

(54:43):
of my time these days.
But you're right, you go to theelectrical world or the
mechanical world or the GCworld, whatever.
And look, everyone's got theirtrade association, right?
I mean, but but it be it's thatzero-sum game of well, if I get
mine, you don't get yours,right?
Or vice versa.
And it's just a differentmentality.
Look, like we all so highschools, we're gonna recruit out

(55:06):
of high schools.
Well, the industry figured thatout about five years ago, uh
because now we're and it's like,okay, cool.
Well, you know something who uhyou know who has got figured out
now?
Healthcare.
Healthcare is in the highschools.
You know who else figured itout?
Tech is going to the highschools and saying, You're a
nerd, you don't need to go tocollege, you can come to work
for me.
So we're like, oh shit, wethought we found this great

(55:30):
labor source.
It's like we did, but we noticeI say we, uh the construction
industry is in a war for talent,not with the contractor next
door, right?
But with the healthcare companywhere they get to work inside
every day, or the high techcompany where they get to go
nerdy stuff every day.

(55:51):
Now, look, not everyone is builtfor each of those environments,
but there's a story to be told,and we as an industry, you
remember got milk and beef, likethose industries figure, you
know, pork, the other whitemeat, whatever.
Those industries figured it out.
Yeah, and construction is toobusy battling itself.

SPEAKER_02 (56:16):
Yep, yep, yeah.
I love, I mean, it's interestingto see not just the messaging
because I have a heartache aboutthe idea of marketing to trade,
to bring more people into theindustry when we treat them like
crap when they get here, right?
That's called bait and switch,right?
Like that's it.

(56:37):
There's there's a I mean,generally speaking, it is
absolutely a bait and switchsituation.
Yeah, there are pockets of likereal amazing experiences, but
they're small pockets, they'regrowing, but they're small, and
so it's not just the bait andswitch of hey, come work for my
subcontractor alpha, my HVACcompany.

(56:59):
It's also the bait and switch ofwhen you go work on a project,
and the GC is going to treat youlike crap too.
So yeah, yeah, like there's wehave systemic things that need
to be fixed.
The marketing, I agree.
Now, with what I love in likewatching what's going on over
there with the in the dirt worldis not just the marketing, like

(57:22):
the production value, it'sfreaking amazing.
Like, man, that's amazing.
I would love to do that, and Iknow I'm not gonna put in the
effort to get that good.
I'm good with my messy shit,like whatever.
Yeah, but I also what seems whatI think I'm seeing is there's
leaders that are associated withthat movement that are also
becoming more visible, and theirpeople within their

(57:42):
organizations are becoming morevisible and more active.
And I think that rather that tome is what's special about
what's happening in the dirtworld that hasn't made its way
through the other, we'll say,segments of the construction
industry.

SPEAKER_00 (58:00):
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Look, I mean, there's enoughelectrical guys, there's enough
mechanical guys to havemovement, right?
Tile guys, maybe not, right?
Right, and I don't love thoseguys.
My brother did that for years,so yeah, it's almost like you
know, Prince, Beyonce, you know,the people you know by one, you
know, LeBron.
Um, there are people within thedirt world that are becoming,

(58:24):
yes, you know, Aaron and Herband Chad and Dan.
And it's like, oh, you knowthem.
I'm like, yeah, I didn't withthem last night.
Oh, you're so special.
No, I'm just a trying to helppeople get better.
Right.
Yeah, it's like, yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 (58:37):
Yeah, yeah.
No, you're right.
Herb's one that stands out.
That guy's amazing.
I got to have a meal with themhere in San Antonio.
Okay.
Now you have been putting out anannual, I'm gonna mess it up,
but like an annual report basedon some pretty significant, I'm
gonna call it research.
Yeah, like what can you tell theaudience?

(58:59):
Because I peaked it as like,okay, like there's some heavy
stuff, and I love lately, I'veseen your post kind of pulling
chunks out of it or insightsfrom what you've learned and
gleaned over the years.
What is that?
So the LM family knows thatthere's something out there that
they can go seek their teethinto.

SPEAKER_00 (59:17):
Yeah, it's the people in construction report.
Yeah, and I do it every otheryear, and it is it goes back to
this conversation aboutexpertise, right?
About rather than just runningmy mouth, let's give some good
data.
So every other year, starting in2019, and we just released uh a
couple months ago, and it's datawith which you can look at your

(59:39):
organization.
Uh, it's survey based and it's alittle bit of focus group based.
So once I get the data, I'll gotalk to folks that have
responded to it and go, allright, tell me a little bit more
about this.
Because, like any survey, itonly tells you so much.
Um, and it it just talks abouteverything we've talked about.

(59:59):
Uh, it talks about the field.
There's universal themes, thefield office chasm.
You know, how do you bridgethat?
Um, mental health is a new megatrend, you know, that is out
there over the last couple ofyears.
So, yeah, it's the people inconstruction report, comes off
the people in constructionsurvey.
You can go to wallyatamcheck.comand get it.
I don't firewall it, I don't askyou for your email.

(01:00:23):
I'm too lazy.
Um for those of you, yeah.
For those of you on LinkedIn,you can go right to my profile
and it's right there.
It's a red cover this year,people in construction report.
And it's it's pretty good data.
And uh goes back to yourquestion earlier about
profitability and all thatstuff.
Like there is there there arevery few places where you can

(01:00:43):
look at culture profit, right?
Because these are all.
Dependent variables, but I tryto give as much data here so
people can kind of see some ofthose dependencies because
you're never going to be able tosay Jesse did a program, we need
we made more money.
It's like we're the piece ofequipment.
Oh, we got a bigger backhoe, wewere able to move more dirt.

(01:01:05):
Okay, I can show that one.
So yeah, people in constructionreport, go get it, take a look
at it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:10):
Beautiful, beautiful.
Yeah, it's super valuable.
I like like there's thecorrelation, right?
Like if I got a backhoe with abigger bucket, I'm gonna move
more yards.
And that's the math question.
The stuff that we do, in somecases, I'm like, yeah, there's a
direct correlation.
I can do the math and show it toyou, but I gotta you gotta let
me do that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:31):
Yes, you measure turnover, right?
One less guy left.
Was that because of you orbecause his wife had a baby?
I like I don't like you know,yeah, yeah.
So uh it's a bit of a leap offaith on our stuff for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:44):
10 for amazing.
All right, Mr.
Wally.
You're you told us about yourwebsite.
Actually, let me make sure.
I'm sure folks out therelistening, they're saying, Man,
I need some more of the Wally.
So we're gonna give them yourLinkedIn, the profile link.
We'll get the website in thething so they can get the people
in construction report.
But if they want like a superawesome like baller that has

(01:02:08):
massive expertise to come andhelp their company, do you have
bandwidth for that?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:14):
Should they call you?
Well, first of all, a phone callis always zero.
And if you know, it doesn't costanything, right?
Right.
And this just it's just likeanother podcast, right?
I mean, it's like let's shareinformation, let's talk, and you
know, you never know, right?
What makes sense and when makessense?
You know, there's always alittle bit of bandwidth, right?

(01:02:35):
Um, but I'm learning like you,not to put as much.
My two Februaries ago, I worked.
When I say worked, I mean stoodin front of every single
weekday, every single day,right?
So 20, 5, 10, 15, 20 days.
Like I made a lot of money.
Yeah, then Memorial Day weekend,I had 102 degree fever for 48
hours.
Oh, geez, no way.

(01:02:57):
Yeah, so that's the body going.
That's not gonna let you do thisanymore.
But uh yeah, so yeah, like yousaid, if they want to know more.
I mean, I post what five, sixtimes a day a week on LinkedIn.
So you'll know you'll eitherlove me or hate me after
tracking me on LinkedIn for alittle while.
And uh then, yeah, a DM and anemail is fine.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:17):
Excellent.
All right.
Well, are you ready for thegrand slam closing question, Mr.
Water?
I don't know, but I have to be.
You gotta be.
Here we go.
And I imagine with the amount ofinteraction, the caliber of
leaders that you've supported indeveloping themselves, and also
the leader that you are, I'mreally eager to hear your
answer.

So here's a question (01:03:37):
What is the promise you are intended to
be?

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:44):
I a little bit of background.
A couple months ago, I wasdriving from North Carolina,
Raleigh to the coast doing aspeech out in New Bern.
For those of you who don't knowthe the eastern part of North
Carolina, it's like drivingthrough West Texas.
I mean, there's nothing, right?
There's no gas stations, there'snothing.

(01:04:04):
So there's about an hour of megoing, I'm not done yet.
Like I'm aging, but but I'm notdone yet.
Why am I not done yet?
Because I know more than I'veever known, and I'm humbler than
I've ever been.
So the promise is to be a betterhuman being.
And what does that mean?

(01:04:26):
To put goodness out in the worldso that it can be manifested
further.
My world narrowly happens to bejob sites, but you know, the
person at the airport, man, Ireally try to be nice.
I'm a jerk every day, you know,to some degree.
I mean, we're human, right?
Yeah, um, but I think thepromise is to put goodness out

(01:04:50):
there because man, we need a lotmore of that these days.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:53):
Oh man, I love it.
And that that t-shirt quote, I'molder and I'm humbler, I know
more and I'm humbler.
Like, holy moly, like that'sfacts, baby.
Oh, Mr.
Wally, thank you, sir.
Did you have fun?

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:11):
Yes, oh you know me, I just I speak for a living,
right?
So you let me just run my mouth.
I mean, let's keep going.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:17):
I know it, I know.
You know, I like to say this tothe teachers that told me that I
would never amount to anythingbecause I talked too much.
Now I'm like, how you like menow?

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:29):
But you know, I and I know I loved it, and we could
you and I could go on all day,but the real message to the
listeners is all of this ispossible, right?
Not all of it once, but all ofit is possible.
Like who you and I are today wasunenvisioned a couple years

(01:05:50):
back, for me, 20 something yearsback, right?
Right.
Um, so you know, fear,self-serving, whatever.
Goodness is possible.
Growth is possible.
The fact that you're listeningto this is nice.
Take something and do somethingwith it.
That'll be better.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:10):
Thank you for sticking it out all the way to
the end.
I know you got a whole lot ofstuff going on.
And in appreciation for the giftof time that you have given this
episode, I want to offer you afree PDF of my book, Becoming
the Promise You're Intended toBe.
The link for that bad boy isdown in the show notes.
Hit it.
You don't even have to give meyour email address.

(01:06:31):
There's a link in there.
You just click that button, youcan download the PDF.
And if you share it withsomebody that you know who might
feel stuck or be caught up inself-destructive behaviors, that
would be the ultimate.
You sharing that increases thelikelihood that it's going to
help one more person.

(01:06:52):
And if it does help one moreperson, then you're contributing
to me becoming the promise I amintended to be.
Be kind to yourself, be cool,and we'll talk at you next time.