January 30, 2023 • 38 mins
Meet Claire Wasserman; an inspirational educator and author who founded "Ladies Get Paid," a platform, community, and book that champions the professional and financial advancement of women. Named as one of the top most 100 powerful woman by Entrepreneur Magazine’s and one of the 75 most influential financial leaders by “Marquis Who's Who”, Claire has advocated for women globally, hosted podcasts, and has garnered international coverage for her work.
In today’s episode, we sat down with Claire to learn how she's overcome her own imposter syndrome, and built a business thats changed the game for women in business through community, education, and empowerment. We hope you enjoy it as much as we did, and leave afterwards looking up!
For the full & uncut episode, along with a number of other perks, please visit www.leavelookingup.com/fans and subscribe!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:09):
Hey listeners. This is Neil who devic and Amir
Jan Dolly, welcome to leave looking at.
Where we have uplifting conversations about the state of
the world, with our heroes, withthe intention to demystify
orient and leave you our listeners inspired.
Clear, Wasserman is an inspirational Teacher and author
(00:31):
who founded, ladies, get paid a platform community and book the
Champions. The professional and financial
advancement of women named as one of the top, 100, most
powerful women by Entrepreneur magazine, and one of the 75 most
influential Financial leaders byMarquis, who's who Claire has
advocated for women globally. She's hosted podcast and has
(00:52):
garnered international coverage for her work.
In today's episode, we sat down with Clare to learn how she
built a business. That's changed the game for
women, in business, through Community Education and
empowerment. We hope you enjoy it as much as
we did and leave afterwards looking up.
So now, without further Ado, let's start this episode.
(01:17):
Thank you very much for being here with us.
Thank you for having me and thanks everybody for listening.
She's an activist. She's an entrepreneur.
The list goes on. We're really glad to have her
today. And want to start understanding
a bit. How did you get here?
Claire, what brought you to this?
Incredible space. We've done all these different
things. How much time do we have?
(01:38):
Yeah, okay, the whole day women are struggling.
We are struggling. There is a wage Gap in
investment Gap, funding Gap, leadership Gap, Gap, you name
it. We're we need to make more money
and that's not something that I fully realized until I had a
pretty sexist experience. That woke me up.
(02:00):
This was probably 2015, I went to this advertising Festival,
south of France, very fancy first night, there was a party
and I walk into the party older guy comes up to me very nice.
Smiley sticks out his hand and he says Well, hi now whose wife
for you? Oh, okay.
That's what this is going to be about and it was a full week of
(02:23):
interactions like that. Just constantly, you know,
whether I was not being taken, seriously, being objectified
ignored, just felt like I had constantly had to navigate this
like gender power Dynamic. And it was really exhausting and
of inoffensive at times really offensive.
And after that, I, you know, I went home and I wrote a little
(02:44):
essay, Hey, of trying to understand my place in those
interactions. So it wasn't these guys suck.
It was actually turning inwards in wondering.
Did I cause any of those interactions?
Right. I think a lot of women in
particular tend to do this, we blame ourselves and when I
shared the the essay with some friends, they immediately went
back, they said, oh my gosh, I have also experienced this, can
(03:05):
I share with my friends? Sure, I started to get emails
from people. I didn't know kind of like my
essay was going viral in my inbox.
To give some context Claire wrote this essay back in 2015,
before it became more acceptableto talk about.
These kinds of experiences time's up in me to the movements
that went viral on social media,and has helped draw attention to
(03:29):
the pervasive sexual harassment,women experience in their
workplace, in their lives happened in 2017 in like people
were not really talking about. I mean, there was no mean to
like, we were not talking about this stuff and, you know, I just
started to research. Like I remember typing into
Google also sort of funny, I typed into Google women work and
(03:49):
equality like no idea where to begin.
And so in uncovering these statistics I really was shocked.
I was shocked. And I was ashamed actually
because I didn't realize how badit was particularly for women of
color. This was really bad.
I just want to for the listenersout there.
Get a bit more of the gravity ofthe situation where it was then
(04:11):
what metrics do we need to know about?
Yeah it's unfortunate. Only not going to surprise you
and we can talk more about what the wage Gap means.
There are people who think that it doesn't exist.
There are nuances to it. I do want to say like it is it
absolutely exists all together. It's about 80 cents on the
dollar 70 to 80 cents on the dollar.
Okay, that's the aggregate. But when you break it down,
(04:31):
further black women it's closer to 60 cents on the dollar.
And like I said before, Hispanicwomen 55 cents on the dollar
actually Asian women have the smallest wage Gap, even smaller
than white women. So the way that the wage Gap is
calculated, it takes in a lot ofdifferent.
Factors. Some of it is you know just
based on the industry, women tend to be in lower-paid
Industries than men. It's also based on the roles
(04:53):
that we have within those Industries roles that we have
within the organization itself. These are actually called
occupational segregation and so you're going to see things like
as a society. We've decided we're going to pay
teachers less when you look in the school system, who tends to
be principals and superintendents and they make
the most men. So then there's a wage Gap,
(05:14):
right? The women who are the teachers
and the men were the principles in the superintendent's now you
could say well what's the wage Gap?
There you know, these women are,they're not choosing to be
principles they're not choosing to be superintendents.
Are they really not choosing it or are there other underlying
issues here like lack of Paid Family?
Leave, You know, the default caretakers are women?
There's a lot of layers. You got to peel back.
(05:35):
There are industries that used to be male dominated and those
industries were paid more when they were male-dominated over
time they shifted. And became more female dominated
and then all of a sudden they get paid less or vice versa.
So software Engineers, a lot of women are software Engineers
back in the day, they were paid less now very male-dominated,
(05:58):
they're paid more interior, decorating, very male-dominated,
used to be paid more now. It's more female-dominated paid
last even like retail right, service workers, their hourly
the paid, the least, and guess who they're dominated by women
of color and often times. Those are single mothers.
Yes, and so that everything getscompounded.
Thank you. That is some fantastic context.
(06:21):
Just one thing to mention. Whenever, you know, we all enter
the workforce, we're all gettingpaid pretty much the same.
You know, when it shifts when women have their first child
guy, it's actually called the motherhood penalty.
So if you know anybody listening, if there's one
takeaway, you know, does the wage Gap exists or not, there is
a big drop off when you see women have kids not the case for
when a man has his first child. In fact, oftentimes men get
(06:43):
raises And that's called the fatherhood bonus.
We just pay mother's less. We just do.
And as a society, we do not havea safety net for families.
I told you we're going to start in a really depressing way it
gets better. I'm just sitting with that a
moment and trying to imagine what it was like as you learned
all of this information that rage that anger for me there was
(07:07):
a fundamental shift like there was the before the statistics
and then there was the after andwhen reading this stuff it just
it made me so angry but I had noplace to put the anger because I
didn't know as an individual. You know, what can you possibly
do to combat something? That is so systemic.
Humming structural entrenched overwhelming and so I did
(07:27):
nothing. I just kind of felt pissed for
like a year and it really wasn'tuntil a friend of mine came to
me and she said that she recently discovered that she was
just not charging as much as hermale counterparts, you know,
could you put on an event? Or is there something we could
do? I don't know.
What are your thoughts? And that was my aha moment
because I realized back to that question of as an individual,
(07:49):
what could I do to combat something that was systemic like
the wage Gap? It Was charging more.
Oh my gosh. Could I could I close my own
wage Gap? Let's start there.
I then hosted an event. It was a town hall for women to
talk about money and everything changed.
After that, I had had a start-upbefore.
I want a sad one and a half startups failed.
(08:09):
Although I actually they're not fail startups because they've
absolutely morphed into what I do now.
So I feel like I was practicing for this for a long time.
You mentioned you'd started companies before and as is the
entrepreneurship game, they don't always work out what felt
different here. One thing I want to say in my
previous startups is I didn't know how to make decisions.
(08:33):
I didn't know how to make business decisions like how do
we monetize decisions? And that's why I ended up going
to work for other startups to learn how to do that.
So if I were to do those things now, I do believe they would
work but only because I have an honor.
Standing of how business Works in general.
So there is something different about ladies, get paid for sure,
(08:54):
but mostly I'm just different. So I saw the need, then I
instantly saw how I could solve the need and how I would make
money from that need. Because in my mind, if you don't
have an idea of how you're goingto make money, it's not a
business. It's a project which I have had
before. For me, the way that this was
going to make money was I was Finding instructors, coaches
money, coaches, career, coaches,and putting on workshops with
(09:16):
them where we would just split the ticket sales and then I saw
the larger vision You know, you begin with salary negotiation,
but there's so much more me, it's like you make more money or
what do you do with your money? Where do you invest it?
Wait, let's take a step back. How do you even make the case
for more money in the first place?
Well, are you in the right job? Do you love what you do, right?
So I could see what the vision was.
But I also understood that how important it is to really
(09:38):
listen. And a big game changer to all of
this was actually went across the country and I hosted town
halls in 19 cities that that town hall that I started in New
York for women to talk about money.
I did it all. Over the country and I really
got to see where the energy was that was crucial.
There's an extra element of if you can experience where they
have energy, you are going to doan even better job.
(10:00):
Serving them where, you know, westarted the email by saying I'm
sorry that it took me a day to respond to you.
Why don't we say thanks for yourpatience right?
Women tend to say I'm sorry for things that have nothing to do.
You never should feel sorry for those things but we're
constantly again, making ourselves.
Small by apologizing. So I would say start counting be
(10:22):
observant of how many times you do kind of deflect or or make
yourself smaller in that way. Unfortunately 2020 and 21 had
different plans, like many of us.
The pandemic changed Claire's approach to work right?
Where more online were not as inperson and considering that that
was so much of your fuel and you're recharged physically
(10:45):
spiritually. How has that changed?
Age that the people that you're advocating for you don't get to
meet them to see them to feel them in person.
What you know what's what how how are you navigating that?
Well, first of all, there's a downside to do in the in-person.
You can't scale as quickly. Okay?
It's exhausting. But right now it's more like the
(11:07):
one-on-one conversations with people as opposed to the group
dynamic, you know, when I get wonderful emails and, you know,
DM's and I said of just looking at it for one second, I really
sit with it and when a person tells me, Story or something
amazing that happened or thing that they overcame.
I really like feel. It's right.
But I have to make an active effort to do that.
(11:28):
Otherwise, it's just like, oh cool, nice message and then you
move on. So, I just have to kind of slow
myself down a little bit. I think when I have those
interactions when they're online, yeah, different worlds,
different world now. But navigating the workforce
during the pandemic, it can be achallenging time.
We all know this, but women in the u.s. they're losing more
(11:48):
than Five million jobs, we caught up with three determine
women looking for the secrets, to resetting their job, search
and the career coach helping, ladies, get paid.
That was Robin Roberts, introducing Claire on Good
Morning, America in 2021, Claireadapted to the pandemic and grew
her business, by supporting women.
(12:10):
Virtually planning webinars, putting together a video library
and building her slack Community, which is now made up
of 55,000 women who Changed overtwo million messages growth in
the face of a pandemic is so impressive but it wasn't the
only challenge that she faced and overcame on this journey.
I can only imagine in this spacethat you're in this landscape.
(12:31):
You've gotten lots of feedback about your role and your company
how you respond when people havegiven you criticism or feedback
both from your audience and yourcompetitor.
Well, we were sued for gender discrimination by a group of
men's rights activists. So yeah, so talk About
criticism. I mean if anyone's curious and
(12:51):
wants to go down a rabbit hole and get really fucking mad go to
ladies, get sued.com, we did a whole campaign around it ladies
get sued.com is worth visiting to get the full story.
Here's a short clip from the main video posted to that site
where Claire explains, just whatshe was up against because of
the nature of our events are so sensitive.
I mean we're talking about things from like discrimination
(13:13):
and harassment. I made the decision to make it
for female identifying and non-binary people only I just
felt that if there were men in the room, that it would really
make it uncomfortable for women to speak up, but then we got
sued for gender discrimination. Thankfully, they hit their crowd
funding goal. We're nearly 2,000, people have
contributed a combined 115, thousand dollars to help support
(13:37):
ladies. Get paid legal costs, plus
continue to support the efforts of ladies.
Get paid as a whole that's been like, my biggest outside group
of people hating what we do. Do it was further validation of
what we do but also very demoralizing.
You know, like this is what the world is, right?
So there's that no nobody is ever as critical of me as I am
(14:01):
of myself. Everybody's quite lovely
actually, the thing that's been hardest actually is trying to
figure out why something isn't working.
That's the thing, I don't think enough people talk about it's
like learn from your mistakes. Well sometimes you don't know
what the mistake actually is. You just know Didn't work.
So that requires trying things again and again and again and
(14:24):
through that process learning how to not take it personally.
Which if you, you know, if you had large part, align your
identity, you know, the who you are with, what you do.
If you are purpose-driven, then you really can't extricate
yourself from this stuff, it will be personal to a certain
extent and I don't think that's bad.
Just a piece of advice that I have learned in that will may be
(14:46):
helpful for other people who aretaking things personally, or If
you're dealing with criticism ingeneral, you are not a mind
reader. What I mean by this is I hosted
a town hall in Minnesota Minneapolis and I thought it
went horribly horribly because to me sort of success is the
energy in the room, there was noenergy in the room.
Nobody laughed. Nobody said anything.
(15:07):
I mean, that's the whole point of a town hall, right?
Is that like, we all have to stand up here.
So I leave this town hall. And I think, man, not only did
this go poorly. I suck at this, and maybe I
shouldn't even be running ladies.
Get paid the community deserves better.
Like I bloomed this out. I could task revised it.
The next morning I wake up with my receive an email from
somebody. I don't know saying wow, that
(15:27):
was life-changing for me. Thank you so much.
So now I'm pissed because I'm like, did I just spent all this
in her? I almost quit.
Ladies get paid. What happened?
And I talked to this woman, another woman there who I knew,
and she said, oh Claire, its cultural like what do you think?
Cultural is America? She does it's Midwestern.
Nice is what she called it people.
(15:48):
I hear they were afraid by speaking up that they would be a
burden or annoying or taking themic from somebody else.
I was like, oh, oh so this wasn't a reflection on how much
they liked it? No, not at all, it's our
culture. Wow, that was game-changing for
me because every time I go into a situation where I'm making
assumptions about how I think other people are receiving me,
(16:11):
receiving and perceiving. I'm probably wrong and just
nobody cares as much about you as you think you do.
I think about themselves as it turns out even the most
influential leaders doubt themselves.
After the break Claire shares, how she's turned that self-doubt
into a unique strength. Plus the biggest challenges she
(16:34):
faces in her own career, the people that have helped her get
to where she is now, and what's changed about the anger that
fueled her to start. Ladies, get paid in the first
place. Hi Claire.
Hi, thanks for coming on the avocado show.
Thanks for having me. My name is, Shawna Gregory I am
the chief program officer women who code and I'm really excited
today to chat with our guest. Claire wasserman's, welcome to
(16:55):
sit down. I'm DJ sex with Claire wasman
here with us today. I am incredibly Beyond excited
to welcome our next guest on to the show, Claire Wasserman.
Claire is, I'm just delighted tohave her Claire Wasserman, who
is back by popular demand beforethe break.
She mentioned that in spite of all of her achievements, she
still her own biggest critic, but instead of trying to hide
(17:18):
her Cause she Embraces them having successfully navigated a
pandemic, a lawsuit, and all thechallenges that come along with
building a business. Claire is now a highly
sought-after educator that's shared her expertise, with
organizations, like NASA, the United Nations, Harvard,
Business School, and many, many more.
(17:39):
I've done a lot of reflecting, but also getting perspective
from others. And they always say, you know,
what makes me, I think special and maybe different is.
I'm just right there. Fuck.
I'm with you. Like I'm like me too, buddy.
I struggle with money. Like, let me tell you about my
imposter syndrome as I, you know, I'm very much like a work
in progress, so I think people appreciate that and it's
(18:02):
catharsis for me. So thank you all for being part
of my therapy session right now.And I transferred that to like,
okay, so what makes me but the connect to others is by being,
you know, transparent with my own struggles.
So the email that I get after every town hall every event you
know, reading the book. I thought I was the only one,
but now I realize I'm not, because I've seen myself in
(18:23):
another. Have you found any exercise?
That might, you know, help somebody regain their sense of
personal power? And therefore ask for that,
raise or like, reframe somethingin a way that helps them
articulate. Something they couldn't before.
Well I always say you don't talkabout therapy.
Like this. Always comes down to how you
just like feel about yourself and how in tune you are with
(18:44):
yourself because there could be somebody who's like I'm going
for this raise. I'm working my ass.
Ass off, but it's not working. And sometimes it's maybe you're
not the right job. Like you're not in the right
company, you're not in the rightrole.
Like we need to be rethinking like you're not alive, like you
haven't come alive and what you do.
So there's a reason you're not shining or being recognized.
That means going back to the drawing board and perhaps
(19:06):
pivoting. I think, again, the through line
here to moving up in your careerand at your company, it's
relationships. So, knowing that you're not
working in a silo, like, who else is aware of the work that
you're doing. They advocating on your behalf
because oftentimes it's the rooms are not invited into where
decisions get made, so these things have to happen in tandem.
(19:27):
You don't can't just put your head down and work hard and
expect to be rewarded. It's like you have to be
lobbying for yourself, you know,in a group dynamic to and Claire
said that as a result of the pandemic, now is actually the
perfect time to advocate for yourself and the changes.
You want to see at your company especially those that
disproportionately affect women.Companies are rethinking their
(19:50):
policies, they're Paid Family, Leave policies.
Notice I'm saying family and notmaternity, right?
The jewel, you really have to goto bat to for yourself.
And there was a fear that you'd be looked at as like an
exception or selfish. Right?
Well, we don't quote do that here but now companies are
rethinking it from a cultural perspective, understanding that
it's expensive to lose people and people leave because they're
(20:14):
not growing. And so, how do you keep somebody
engaged and happy at your Company.
It means investing in them whichoftentimes turns into like
getting them a video subscription to ladies get paid
right or ever be committed. Speak, you know, all that good
stuff. So I'm feeling actually pretty
excited about this. I just want to say for everybody
listening, if there is a change that you want to see at your
(20:35):
company, now is absolutely the time to go to bat for it because
they are unsure, they're like I don't know the answer to this.
They're all trying to figure themselves out.
They will be grateful to you forcoming with suggestions and
solutions. And you just need to really
think through the financial implications of your ask and by
that, I mean just even like the time that it takes to do it and
(20:57):
the resources and have other. People also come in and Advocate
with you, and also find what your competitor companies are
doing and if they're doing anything organizationally or
culturally or whatever that you think, is great.
Well, in order for your company to stay competitive for talent,
tell them about what that other companies doing and that might
(21:17):
kick their butt a little bit. To make positive James pushing
for change at your company, may seem challenging but pushing
yourself to change can feel almost impossible compared to
when she first launched ladies. Get paid Claire's day-to-day
life and work style are completely different for better.
And for worse I hustled a lot more but to the point of burnout
(21:39):
you know I'd be like 5:30 in themorning.
I was reading those books aroundlike you know all these CEOs,
they get up so early and I all Idid was work and work and work
and I Don't do that now. And you know, I'm trying to
balance out now what is hustle look like so struggling with
that? Because I have a proclivity to
procrastinate but it's interesting.
I think that hustle was a thousand percent needed.
(22:01):
I do II. Don't, I think everybody when
they start their careers, they start their companies.
Yes, you need to like, Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
It. We also need to know when that's
not sustainable and how to transition into a new way of
operating. Now, I'm like, I just took it
out. I just woke up.
Yeah I've learned how to just not care, I think that comes
with age. Also we're at a certain point
(22:24):
you know shut my laptop at 6 p.m. and I'm like peace out
fuckers. Like I just don't have the
emotional bandwidth to care about this about this issue.
I'm just gonna watch trashy TV. I also you know moved to
California, gotten to marijuana.Wish I'd known you then, Neil
much Chiller purpose. And let me tell you, I'm a much
happier. Yeah, I know I'm just like let's
(22:46):
let's get Let's turn off the laptop and I'm just going to
have a good time. What does younger hustle Claire
have to? Does that Claire exist anymore?
How is that Claire grappling with this current day?
Claire, I'm trying to figure it out.
I've gone too far to the other side so it's like I can
sometimes do things in extreme so I was like extreme Hustle but
(23:08):
like never learned how to work in a sustainable way.
Then I went into the like after my book I did like basically a
full year of just burn out and it was fantastic.
It and it was just, I feel like I was waking up in the morning
and sort of waiting for the day to be over.
I know that sounds really like sad and depressing but you know,
a it was all of us, it's been more than a year since my book
(23:31):
was feeling like I have to get back on the horse.
So I'm trying to figure out what's the balance and I hired
an accountability coach because I realized I haven't had a boss
and a long time and that's great, but also we could all use
a boss. I think we can always use how
somebody who's given us. Back on ourselves and holding us
to task. And so I realized I needed to
(23:52):
hire somebody to do that. So I've invested in, Kita
Williams, she goes by the name of success bully and that's been
going well over the last, you know, month and a half.
So I'm still a work in progress but I realized I needed help.
As we all do, we all need perspective.
The way that I internalized whatyou just said it's who's in your
orbit. Its who's in your constellation
that you can rely on. That can push you that can
(24:14):
challenge you. That can keep hold you
accountable. Or keeps me in check all the
time. And I'm curious when you're
thinking about people that are supporting and helping you, who
can you give thanks to for any of these things that you've
spoken about Aaron Rasmussen is an has been wonderful and
beautiful mentor of mine. He is the co-founder of
(24:36):
masterclass. He started a company called
outlier really encourage people check that out.
It's like an alternative option of Education of accredited
University for like fraction of Cost, he's an inventor, he's a
screenwriter like way, just a wonderful and just an amazing
person really interesting guy. He has been here from the
beginning of the ladies, get paid Journey when it was just an
(24:58):
idea. And I remember emailing him
after I wrote the essay and it went a little viral, and I was
like I think there's something here even though like it was
just again, like energy. Right.
And I talk things out with them and he's like, yeah, you do
something here. Susan line, who is the CEO and
founder of Bill. My girl Ventures has had an
(25:19):
incredible career. She greenlit Desperate
Housewives and lost when she worked at ABC entertainment.
I've been the CEO of Martha Stewart Company, Gilt, groupe.
Now, she's this venture capitalist and she has been
there from the beginning. Saying, yes, there is something
like you got this. You got this.
So, this is how we should all beact.
You can impact somebody's life. So much by doing so, little just
(25:42):
saying, you got this and those people have consistently been
there for me. The years and I'm incredibly
grateful to both of them and a number of others, it seems like
a lot of these connections, these really powerful kind of
either mentors are guiding lights.
Are people that you just either,what reached out, cold or how
did these connections happen? Did you relationships have been
(26:03):
the key to everything any job that I've ever had, in my life
did not come from a cold application.
It came from a relationship camefrom an introduction.
And the people that I've met either were sort of randomly in
my Orbit, whether it was an old boss of mine actually met my
stepmother on a Lane in ladies, get paid the book.
I will chapter on networking if you had to pick one chapter to
read that, absolutely. Is it because networking exists
(26:26):
and should exist within your company as well.
So it's the building relationships.
The people you also work with aswell as new people that you want
to meet. But I do want to say, I have a
very awkward actually at events.This is literally why I have
become like a producer host of events because it gives me a
purpose. Like I know what I'm doing
there. And so I've been at a wedding.
(26:47):
I swear, I'm too nervous to go up to people.
I get like, really sweaty, like,I'm like super uncomfortable, I
guess. Then you start hosting.
I'm probably not what a lot of people think that I could
actually huge introvert. I was at an event with my
partner Ashley. And you know, there was this
woman there, Beth Comstock, she'd been the former Vice chair
(27:07):
of innovation at GE and Ashley like we need introduce
ourselves. I'm like, I couldn't do it.
I was like there was a line of people waiting to meet her.
I'm like I was I could not do it.
Couldn't do it. I was like, I'm gonna stay by
the wine and the cheese. Always a good place to be.
This is pre-pandemic. Obviously.
After he's like, screw you. I'm going, she goes, and I'm
watching the very animated, like, okay, so it's going well,
(27:30):
finish speaking. Ashley's like, I gotta tell you
all about this so we leave and she says, guess what she knew
us. She knew all about ladies, get
paid and not only did she know us?
She had found the person who artdirected our website, our logo,
and she hired them What? Wow, I was like, oh my God, this
(27:50):
is crazy. And then I was like, I'm getting
coffee with her next week and she did and then she had to go
Ashley. Yeah.
And she's become a mentor. You know, since then has made
some introductions that have made us money, brand
Partnerships just a wonderful person.
So now I go up to people and theway that I do it the way because
I'm still very nervous, but I kept kick my butt because I
(28:11):
think you know, what would actually do.
And also I have to report back to her.
And you know what? I Was still awkward.
That's okay. Like you're building a muscle
here but at, you know, but then these beautiful relationships
have happened life changing relationships.
I mean, I kind of is connected to this idea of what fuels you
but like, what is, what is your North Star?
(28:32):
You're driving for a central motivator.
Does it still feel the same thing that it was?
Is that fire still coming from the same place of anger and
frustration? Or is there something different
now? No, I don't have the anger
anymore. Mostly because I'm tired,
there's just so much hair. All stuff happening in the
world, that I can't feel my feelings around it.
I've had to learn what place that that has.
(28:54):
I mean, it's always connecting to like my why you know why I'm
doing this, who I'm doing this for, you know, Imagining the
person that I'm speaking to. So, even in writing the book,
there's actually some good advice for anybody who's
suffering from any kind of like impostor syndrome or feeling a
lot of pressure to perform. I used to think about, am I
going to get on a New York Timesbestseller.
List is my editor going to be happy.
(29:15):
Like am I gonna sell a lot of copies and So I would spin my
wheels freaking out about that largely because I have no
control over that. Like, literally, I could do my
best and I could get cancelled, right.
So it's like that was not helping Focus.
So what I ended up shifting toward is like really imagining
a person like opening my book and reading it.
(29:36):
All right? And so writing, it sort of
making it smaller in that way, breaking it down, making it
personal was very helpful. And then the other thing that I
shifted to is also making it about me.
It's not about the wage. Gap is not about the audience,
actually, a lot of times it's what am I learning?
Can I find joy in what I'm doing?
Can I challenge myself? It's about the things that you
(29:57):
have, maybe more agency over because then you can sort of
guarantee success. If you don't see yourself
gaining momentum, you're just going to lose it.
So that's sort of part of the issue of, you know, having the
fire to close the wage Gap. It's just not going to happen.
Like that's like our joke is we have a business that exists to
try to put ourselves out of business.
So we're not going to close these gaps.
(30:19):
And so even though that is the Starting Fire, it's not healthy
to constantly stay focused on something that's just never
going to happen. So it's like, okay, what can I
do that? I can see that momentum
happening and that is things like finishing, a chapter of my
book and being proud of myself and like learning how to get
over writer's block, and, you know, Finding joy in that.
So, my y has gotten smaller. I love that this is leaving.
(30:42):
This is in a place of optimism. I'm curious given where you are
now? What have you?
I learned recently, that's left you looking up.
I am really optimistic about women getting way, more
aggressive with investing they. We've seen that all through the
pandemic GameStop now, crypto and NF.
T is like there is money to be made.
(31:03):
People are getting rich, they'renot women, it's really
interesting. It's like, when I started
ladies, get paid, I've been verydriven by long time.
Stats right again, systemic in French, but we're watching now.
Statistics happening real time, we're watching the Fact, that
15% of Bitcoin Traders are women, okay, so we're going holy
shit. We got to make a difference now,
like there is an urgency to this, that's really exciting.
(31:26):
And so we're seeing way more women ready to invest their
money and that's a fabulous, youknow, again, you know, always
invest with caution, don't invest things, you know, you
can't afford to lose except yourex cetera but that's the energy
I'm seeing. So we're doing a lot more stuff.
Ladies get crypto, you're going to see more things coming out
from us. So I'm super jazzed and I'm
learning just long with the Restof them as we bring this to a
(31:48):
close along, the train of thought of models and a long
train of thought of even, even looking outside, this nation, if
there are any countries or municipalities or anything,
anyone that you've seen that, you are looking up to that.
You think is doing it, right? It's rough Cuts Like You can
look at countries like New Zealand and, you know,
Scandinavian countries and like they have great policies but
(32:10):
they're also just different countries, you know, than ours
like were We're a bunch of little countries put together
and and with radically differentcall, you do go back like the
Minnesota culture. Say so Mommy's little skeptical
of like lets you know, making one's 1 comparisons.
That being said, we're obviouslyway down the totem pole when it
comes to things like paid family, leave so pretty much.
Everybody else is doing it. Better than I still have to find
(32:32):
that space. That means we can be that
person. Yeah, right now know that you,
you know, you Cobble together, little things from one companies
doing this. Okay, cool.
I'm going to take because it's not a one-size-fits-all for a
company for a person for a tree.So you take elements of what
will work for you in your context.
That's, that's the key so rapid-fire round.
(32:52):
You've got three to five secondsto come up with the first word
that comes to your brain. I think this is appropriate,
favorites book. I really like an acronym.
I allowed to say a Russian for anybody that you want.
Okay? Favorite movie.
Oh my gosh. Okay.
(33:14):
I love rom-com. So we're just going to go with
My Best Friend's Wedding. Favorite foreign word.
Oh gosh, muff, do not so that this isn't a trick.
Murph is the word fam in French but backwards and it is a it is
(33:37):
a certain kind of it's called Viva La.
It's a slang word in French. So there you go.
I'm a kid, I lived in France. And for a little bit, I'm
obsessed with the with slang fruit.
Apple. Yeah, yeah.
Pink lady Z. Let's go back to the words.
Let's see what you come up with favorite curse word.
It was awesome. Like fugazi, I don't know.
(33:58):
Now, time for the the either or so Android or iPhone.
I found mountains are Beach mountains, GIF or GIF, GIF East
Coast or West Coast. It's got to be West Coast.
Now, maybe that's moved here, sopancakes or waffles.
Waffles texture, the texture, last one, chocolate, or vanilla
(34:21):
chocolate with vanilla. Can I ask why you bit your
tongue there? Why you held you like?
Okay, so I'm a big sweet person like that is my like I'm Very,
very healthy but only because I'm very, very sweet tooth.
So, like vanilla base with, like, chocolate, like chunks in
it. I'm like big on the texture.
(34:42):
Did you give him a just like, straight chocolate or like
chocolate ice cream? I don't like it.
But if you don't got the chocolate chunks in there, then
you know, it's just like why even try?
Like it's trash. I don't know.
That was the hardest question. I got all day.
So thank you for helping me. I really like to thank, I'm
loving it. That was the most difficult
question of the whole. The whole interview, Howard
(35:05):
Stern, your Inspirations. Well that's easy.
Chocolate and vanilla. Hamish know the movie.
I feel terrible. I could I started my career in a
minute film producing. This is so like I there's just I
guess I just smoked too much weed.
I don't know. Definitely.
Okay went away. Good answers but now so thank
(35:26):
you so much if people want to find you learn more about what
you're doing both Claire, Wasserman, And ladies, get paid.
Where can they do that? Yes, thank you for asking,
ladies, get paid.com ladies getting a.com / book.
You can follow us on all social channels at.
Ladies get paid you can find me and follow me at Claire gets
paid. Congratulations you guys for
(35:48):
this wonderful show. Thank you for having me on.
Thank you all for listening and thank you to the editor because
you had a job to do today for folks that love with her hearing
today and want to hear and see more.
We have the complete uncut and raw episodes in video form
available. People online on our fan page
via patreon at www.levitt.com up.com fans there.
(36:11):
You can support, what we're creating here.
Sound bites, that didn't make itto the Final Cut gain wisdom
from our guests score. Merch, be the first to access
our content and more also we'd like to take a second to thank
you for joining us today. So, if you haven't already,
please be sure to leave a ratingand review of the podcast and
your app of choice. Leave looking up is hosted by
(36:36):
myself. Nia Ludovic and my co-host.
Amir Jan Dolly, and produced by our small.
But Mighty team at Moon 31, a company dedicated to creating
platforms for Meaningful conversation.
That tackle, the important issues of today, this episode
was created to the combined efforts of myself as executive
producer and our producer, Kyle gets with support from Eric
(36:58):
Karen. The moon 31 team.
Also includes lead. Producer, Lou Chic Lotus.
Lead designer on Draya, Kang glass slipper, media, and
engineer. Justin jet, Carter who also
scored this episode. Original theme music by Brady W
and background music. Provided from Blue Dot sessions.
Hey listeners. This is Neil who devic and Amir
Jan Dolly, welcome to leave looking at.
Where we have uplifting conversations about the state of
the world, with our heroes, withthe intention to demystify
orient and leave you our listeners inspired.
Clear, Wasserman is an inspirational Teacher and author
(00:31):
who founded, ladies, get paid a platform community and book the
Champions. The professional and financial
advancement of women named as one of the top, 100, most
powerful women by Entrepreneur magazine, and one of the 75 most
influential Financial leaders byMarquis, who's who Claire has
advocated for women globally. She's hosted podcast and has
(00:52):
garnered international coverage for her work.
In today's episode, we sat down with Clare to learn how she
built a business. That's changed the game for
women, in business, through Community Education and
empowerment. We hope you enjoy it as much as
we did and leave afterwards looking up.
So now, without further Ado, let's start this episode.
(01:17):
Thank you very much for being here with us.
Thank you for having me and thanks everybody for listening.
She's an activist. She's an entrepreneur.
The list goes on. We're really glad to have her
today. And want to start understanding
a bit. How did you get here?
Claire, what brought you to this?
Incredible space. We've done all these different
things. How much time do we have?
(01:38):
Yeah, okay, the whole day women are struggling.
We are struggling. There is a wage Gap in
investment Gap, funding Gap, leadership Gap, Gap, you name
it. We're we need to make more money
and that's not something that I fully realized until I had a
pretty sexist experience. That woke me up.
(02:00):
This was probably 2015, I went to this advertising Festival,
south of France, very fancy first night, there was a party
and I walk into the party older guy comes up to me very nice.
Smiley sticks out his hand and he says Well, hi now whose wife
for you? Oh, okay.
That's what this is going to be about and it was a full week of
(02:23):
interactions like that. Just constantly, you know,
whether I was not being taken, seriously, being objectified
ignored, just felt like I had constantly had to navigate this
like gender power Dynamic. And it was really exhausting and
of inoffensive at times really offensive.
And after that, I, you know, I went home and I wrote a little
(02:44):
essay, Hey, of trying to understand my place in those
interactions. So it wasn't these guys suck.
It was actually turning inwards in wondering.
Did I cause any of those interactions?
Right. I think a lot of women in
particular tend to do this, we blame ourselves and when I
shared the the essay with some friends, they immediately went
back, they said, oh my gosh, I have also experienced this, can
(03:05):
I share with my friends? Sure, I started to get emails
from people. I didn't know kind of like my
essay was going viral in my inbox.
To give some context Claire wrote this essay back in 2015,
before it became more acceptableto talk about.
These kinds of experiences time's up in me to the movements
that went viral on social media,and has helped draw attention to
(03:29):
the pervasive sexual harassment,women experience in their
workplace, in their lives happened in 2017 in like people
were not really talking about. I mean, there was no mean to
like, we were not talking about this stuff and, you know, I just
started to research. Like I remember typing into
Google also sort of funny, I typed into Google women work and
(03:49):
equality like no idea where to begin.
And so in uncovering these statistics I really was shocked.
I was shocked. And I was ashamed actually
because I didn't realize how badit was particularly for women of
color. This was really bad.
I just want to for the listenersout there.
Get a bit more of the gravity ofthe situation where it was then
(04:11):
what metrics do we need to know about?
Yeah it's unfortunate. Only not going to surprise you
and we can talk more about what the wage Gap means.
There are people who think that it doesn't exist.
There are nuances to it. I do want to say like it is it
absolutely exists all together. It's about 80 cents on the
dollar 70 to 80 cents on the dollar.
Okay, that's the aggregate. But when you break it down,
(04:31):
further black women it's closer to 60 cents on the dollar.
And like I said before, Hispanicwomen 55 cents on the dollar
actually Asian women have the smallest wage Gap, even smaller
than white women. So the way that the wage Gap is
calculated, it takes in a lot ofdifferent.
Factors. Some of it is you know just
based on the industry, women tend to be in lower-paid
Industries than men. It's also based on the roles
(04:53):
that we have within those Industries roles that we have
within the organization itself. These are actually called
occupational segregation and so you're going to see things like
as a society. We've decided we're going to pay
teachers less when you look in the school system, who tends to
be principals and superintendents and they make
the most men. So then there's a wage Gap,
(05:14):
right? The women who are the teachers
and the men were the principles in the superintendent's now you
could say well what's the wage Gap?
There you know, these women are,they're not choosing to be
principles they're not choosing to be superintendents.
Are they really not choosing it or are there other underlying
issues here like lack of Paid Family?
Leave, You know, the default caretakers are women?
There's a lot of layers. You got to peel back.
(05:35):
There are industries that used to be male dominated and those
industries were paid more when they were male-dominated over
time they shifted. And became more female dominated
and then all of a sudden they get paid less or vice versa.
So software Engineers, a lot of women are software Engineers
back in the day, they were paid less now very male-dominated,
(05:58):
they're paid more interior, decorating, very male-dominated,
used to be paid more now. It's more female-dominated paid
last even like retail right, service workers, their hourly
the paid, the least, and guess who they're dominated by women
of color and often times. Those are single mothers.
Yes, and so that everything getscompounded.
Thank you. That is some fantastic context.
(06:21):
Just one thing to mention. Whenever, you know, we all enter
the workforce, we're all gettingpaid pretty much the same.
You know, when it shifts when women have their first child
guy, it's actually called the motherhood penalty.
So if you know anybody listening, if there's one
takeaway, you know, does the wage Gap exists or not, there is
a big drop off when you see women have kids not the case for
when a man has his first child. In fact, oftentimes men get
(06:43):
raises And that's called the fatherhood bonus.
We just pay mother's less. We just do.
And as a society, we do not havea safety net for families.
I told you we're going to start in a really depressing way it
gets better. I'm just sitting with that a
moment and trying to imagine what it was like as you learned
all of this information that rage that anger for me there was
(07:07):
a fundamental shift like there was the before the statistics
and then there was the after andwhen reading this stuff it just
it made me so angry but I had noplace to put the anger because I
didn't know as an individual. You know, what can you possibly
do to combat something? That is so systemic.
Humming structural entrenched overwhelming and so I did
(07:27):
nothing. I just kind of felt pissed for
like a year and it really wasn'tuntil a friend of mine came to
me and she said that she recently discovered that she was
just not charging as much as hermale counterparts, you know,
could you put on an event? Or is there something we could
do? I don't know.
What are your thoughts? And that was my aha moment
because I realized back to that question of as an individual,
(07:49):
what could I do to combat something that was systemic like
the wage Gap? It Was charging more.
Oh my gosh. Could I could I close my own
wage Gap? Let's start there.
I then hosted an event. It was a town hall for women to
talk about money and everything changed.
After that, I had had a start-upbefore.
I want a sad one and a half startups failed.
(08:09):
Although I actually they're not fail startups because they've
absolutely morphed into what I do now.
So I feel like I was practicing for this for a long time.
You mentioned you'd started companies before and as is the
entrepreneurship game, they don't always work out what felt
different here. One thing I want to say in my
previous startups is I didn't know how to make decisions.
(08:33):
I didn't know how to make business decisions like how do
we monetize decisions? And that's why I ended up going
to work for other startups to learn how to do that.
So if I were to do those things now, I do believe they would
work but only because I have an honor.
Standing of how business Works in general.
So there is something different about ladies, get paid for sure,
(08:54):
but mostly I'm just different. So I saw the need, then I
instantly saw how I could solve the need and how I would make
money from that need. Because in my mind, if you don't
have an idea of how you're goingto make money, it's not a
business. It's a project which I have had
before. For me, the way that this was
going to make money was I was Finding instructors, coaches
money, coaches, career, coaches,and putting on workshops with
(09:16):
them where we would just split the ticket sales and then I saw
the larger vision You know, you begin with salary negotiation,
but there's so much more me, it's like you make more money or
what do you do with your money? Where do you invest it?
Wait, let's take a step back. How do you even make the case
for more money in the first place?
Well, are you in the right job? Do you love what you do, right?
So I could see what the vision was.
But I also understood that how important it is to really
(09:38):
listen. And a big game changer to all of
this was actually went across the country and I hosted town
halls in 19 cities that that town hall that I started in New
York for women to talk about money.
I did it all. Over the country and I really
got to see where the energy was that was crucial.
There's an extra element of if you can experience where they
have energy, you are going to doan even better job.
(10:00):
Serving them where, you know, westarted the email by saying I'm
sorry that it took me a day to respond to you.
Why don't we say thanks for yourpatience right?
Women tend to say I'm sorry for things that have nothing to do.
You never should feel sorry for those things but we're
constantly again, making ourselves.
Small by apologizing. So I would say start counting be
(10:22):
observant of how many times you do kind of deflect or or make
yourself smaller in that way. Unfortunately 2020 and 21 had
different plans, like many of us.
The pandemic changed Claire's approach to work right?
Where more online were not as inperson and considering that that
was so much of your fuel and you're recharged physically
(10:45):
spiritually. How has that changed?
Age that the people that you're advocating for you don't get to
meet them to see them to feel them in person.
What you know what's what how how are you navigating that?
Well, first of all, there's a downside to do in the in-person.
You can't scale as quickly. Okay?
It's exhausting. But right now it's more like the
(11:07):
one-on-one conversations with people as opposed to the group
dynamic, you know, when I get wonderful emails and, you know,
DM's and I said of just looking at it for one second, I really
sit with it and when a person tells me, Story or something
amazing that happened or thing that they overcame.
I really like feel. It's right.
But I have to make an active effort to do that.
(11:28):
Otherwise, it's just like, oh cool, nice message and then you
move on. So, I just have to kind of slow
myself down a little bit. I think when I have those
interactions when they're online, yeah, different worlds,
different world now. But navigating the workforce
during the pandemic, it can be achallenging time.
We all know this, but women in the u.s. they're losing more
(11:48):
than Five million jobs, we caught up with three determine
women looking for the secrets, to resetting their job, search
and the career coach helping, ladies, get paid.
That was Robin Roberts, introducing Claire on Good
Morning, America in 2021, Claireadapted to the pandemic and grew
her business, by supporting women.
(12:10):
Virtually planning webinars, putting together a video library
and building her slack Community, which is now made up
of 55,000 women who Changed overtwo million messages growth in
the face of a pandemic is so impressive but it wasn't the
only challenge that she faced and overcame on this journey.
I can only imagine in this spacethat you're in this landscape.
(12:31):
You've gotten lots of feedback about your role and your company
how you respond when people havegiven you criticism or feedback
both from your audience and yourcompetitor.
Well, we were sued for gender discrimination by a group of
men's rights activists. So yeah, so talk About
criticism. I mean if anyone's curious and
(12:51):
wants to go down a rabbit hole and get really fucking mad go to
ladies, get sued.com, we did a whole campaign around it ladies
get sued.com is worth visiting to get the full story.
Here's a short clip from the main video posted to that site
where Claire explains, just whatshe was up against because of
the nature of our events are so sensitive.
I mean we're talking about things from like discrimination
(13:13):
and harassment. I made the decision to make it
for female identifying and non-binary people only I just
felt that if there were men in the room, that it would really
make it uncomfortable for women to speak up, but then we got
sued for gender discrimination. Thankfully, they hit their crowd
funding goal. We're nearly 2,000, people have
contributed a combined 115, thousand dollars to help support
(13:37):
ladies. Get paid legal costs, plus
continue to support the efforts of ladies.
Get paid as a whole that's been like, my biggest outside group
of people hating what we do. Do it was further validation of
what we do but also very demoralizing.
You know, like this is what the world is, right?
So there's that no nobody is ever as critical of me as I am
(14:01):
of myself. Everybody's quite lovely
actually, the thing that's been hardest actually is trying to
figure out why something isn't working.
That's the thing, I don't think enough people talk about it's
like learn from your mistakes. Well sometimes you don't know
what the mistake actually is. You just know Didn't work.
So that requires trying things again and again and again and
(14:24):
through that process learning how to not take it personally.
Which if you, you know, if you had large part, align your
identity, you know, the who you are with, what you do.
If you are purpose-driven, then you really can't extricate
yourself from this stuff, it will be personal to a certain
extent and I don't think that's bad.
Just a piece of advice that I have learned in that will may be
(14:46):
helpful for other people who aretaking things personally, or If
you're dealing with criticism ingeneral, you are not a mind
reader. What I mean by this is I hosted
a town hall in Minnesota Minneapolis and I thought it
went horribly horribly because to me sort of success is the
energy in the room, there was noenergy in the room.
Nobody laughed. Nobody said anything.
(15:07):
I mean, that's the whole point of a town hall, right?
Is that like, we all have to stand up here.
So I leave this town hall. And I think, man, not only did
this go poorly. I suck at this, and maybe I
shouldn't even be running ladies.
Get paid the community deserves better.
Like I bloomed this out. I could task revised it.
The next morning I wake up with my receive an email from
somebody. I don't know saying wow, that
(15:27):
was life-changing for me. Thank you so much.
So now I'm pissed because I'm like, did I just spent all this
in her? I almost quit.
Ladies get paid. What happened?
And I talked to this woman, another woman there who I knew,
and she said, oh Claire, its cultural like what do you think?
Cultural is America? She does it's Midwestern.
Nice is what she called it people.
(15:48):
I hear they were afraid by speaking up that they would be a
burden or annoying or taking themic from somebody else.
I was like, oh, oh so this wasn't a reflection on how much
they liked it? No, not at all, it's our
culture. Wow, that was game-changing for
me because every time I go into a situation where I'm making
assumptions about how I think other people are receiving me,
(16:11):
receiving and perceiving. I'm probably wrong and just
nobody cares as much about you as you think you do.
I think about themselves as it turns out even the most
influential leaders doubt themselves.
After the break Claire shares, how she's turned that self-doubt
into a unique strength. Plus the biggest challenges she
(16:34):
faces in her own career, the people that have helped her get
to where she is now, and what's changed about the anger that
fueled her to start. Ladies, get paid in the first
place. Hi Claire.
Hi, thanks for coming on the avocado show.
Thanks for having me. My name is, Shawna Gregory I am
the chief program officer women who code and I'm really excited
today to chat with our guest. Claire wasserman's, welcome to
(16:55):
sit down. I'm DJ sex with Claire wasman
here with us today. I am incredibly Beyond excited
to welcome our next guest on to the show, Claire Wasserman.
Claire is, I'm just delighted tohave her Claire Wasserman, who
is back by popular demand beforethe break.
She mentioned that in spite of all of her achievements, she
still her own biggest critic, but instead of trying to hide
(17:18):
her Cause she Embraces them having successfully navigated a
pandemic, a lawsuit, and all thechallenges that come along with
building a business. Claire is now a highly
sought-after educator that's shared her expertise, with
organizations, like NASA, the United Nations, Harvard,
Business School, and many, many more.
(17:39):
I've done a lot of reflecting, but also getting perspective
from others. And they always say, you know,
what makes me, I think special and maybe different is.
I'm just right there. Fuck.
I'm with you. Like I'm like me too, buddy.
I struggle with money. Like, let me tell you about my
imposter syndrome as I, you know, I'm very much like a work
in progress, so I think people appreciate that and it's
(18:02):
catharsis for me. So thank you all for being part
of my therapy session right now.And I transferred that to like,
okay, so what makes me but the connect to others is by being,
you know, transparent with my own struggles.
So the email that I get after every town hall every event you
know, reading the book. I thought I was the only one,
but now I realize I'm not, because I've seen myself in
(18:23):
another. Have you found any exercise?
That might, you know, help somebody regain their sense of
personal power? And therefore ask for that,
raise or like, reframe somethingin a way that helps them
articulate. Something they couldn't before.
Well I always say you don't talkabout therapy.
Like this. Always comes down to how you
just like feel about yourself and how in tune you are with
(18:44):
yourself because there could be somebody who's like I'm going
for this raise. I'm working my ass.
Ass off, but it's not working. And sometimes it's maybe you're
not the right job. Like you're not in the right
company, you're not in the rightrole.
Like we need to be rethinking like you're not alive, like you
haven't come alive and what you do.
So there's a reason you're not shining or being recognized.
That means going back to the drawing board and perhaps
(19:06):
pivoting. I think, again, the through line
here to moving up in your careerand at your company, it's
relationships. So, knowing that you're not
working in a silo, like, who else is aware of the work that
you're doing. They advocating on your behalf
because oftentimes it's the rooms are not invited into where
decisions get made, so these things have to happen in tandem.
(19:27):
You don't can't just put your head down and work hard and
expect to be rewarded. It's like you have to be
lobbying for yourself, you know,in a group dynamic to and Claire
said that as a result of the pandemic, now is actually the
perfect time to advocate for yourself and the changes.
You want to see at your company especially those that
disproportionately affect women.Companies are rethinking their
(19:50):
policies, they're Paid Family, Leave policies.
Notice I'm saying family and notmaternity, right?
The jewel, you really have to goto bat to for yourself.
And there was a fear that you'd be looked at as like an
exception or selfish. Right?
Well, we don't quote do that here but now companies are
rethinking it from a cultural perspective, understanding that
it's expensive to lose people and people leave because they're
(20:14):
not growing. And so, how do you keep somebody
engaged and happy at your Company.
It means investing in them whichoftentimes turns into like
getting them a video subscription to ladies get paid
right or ever be committed. Speak, you know, all that good
stuff. So I'm feeling actually pretty
excited about this. I just want to say for everybody
listening, if there is a change that you want to see at your
(20:35):
company, now is absolutely the time to go to bat for it because
they are unsure, they're like I don't know the answer to this.
They're all trying to figure themselves out.
They will be grateful to you forcoming with suggestions and
solutions. And you just need to really
think through the financial implications of your ask and by
that, I mean just even like the time that it takes to do it and
(20:57):
the resources and have other. People also come in and Advocate
with you, and also find what your competitor companies are
doing and if they're doing anything organizationally or
culturally or whatever that you think, is great.
Well, in order for your company to stay competitive for talent,
tell them about what that other companies doing and that might
(21:17):
kick their butt a little bit. To make positive James pushing
for change at your company, may seem challenging but pushing
yourself to change can feel almost impossible compared to
when she first launched ladies. Get paid Claire's day-to-day
life and work style are completely different for better.
And for worse I hustled a lot more but to the point of burnout
(21:39):
you know I'd be like 5:30 in themorning.
I was reading those books aroundlike you know all these CEOs,
they get up so early and I all Idid was work and work and work
and I Don't do that now. And you know, I'm trying to
balance out now what is hustle look like so struggling with
that? Because I have a proclivity to
procrastinate but it's interesting.
I think that hustle was a thousand percent needed.
(22:01):
I do II. Don't, I think everybody when
they start their careers, they start their companies.
Yes, you need to like, Blood, Sweat, and Tears.
It. We also need to know when that's
not sustainable and how to transition into a new way of
operating. Now, I'm like, I just took it
out. I just woke up.
Yeah I've learned how to just not care, I think that comes
with age. Also we're at a certain point
(22:24):
you know shut my laptop at 6 p.m. and I'm like peace out
fuckers. Like I just don't have the
emotional bandwidth to care about this about this issue.
I'm just gonna watch trashy TV. I also you know moved to
California, gotten to marijuana.Wish I'd known you then, Neil
much Chiller purpose. And let me tell you, I'm a much
happier. Yeah, I know I'm just like let's
(22:46):
let's get Let's turn off the laptop and I'm just going to
have a good time. What does younger hustle Claire
have to? Does that Claire exist anymore?
How is that Claire grappling with this current day?
Claire, I'm trying to figure it out.
I've gone too far to the other side so it's like I can
sometimes do things in extreme so I was like extreme Hustle but
(23:08):
like never learned how to work in a sustainable way.
Then I went into the like after my book I did like basically a
full year of just burn out and it was fantastic.
It and it was just, I feel like I was waking up in the morning
and sort of waiting for the day to be over.
I know that sounds really like sad and depressing but you know,
a it was all of us, it's been more than a year since my book
(23:31):
was feeling like I have to get back on the horse.
So I'm trying to figure out what's the balance and I hired
an accountability coach because I realized I haven't had a boss
and a long time and that's great, but also we could all use
a boss. I think we can always use how
somebody who's given us. Back on ourselves and holding us
to task. And so I realized I needed to
(23:52):
hire somebody to do that. So I've invested in, Kita
Williams, she goes by the name of success bully and that's been
going well over the last, you know, month and a half.
So I'm still a work in progress but I realized I needed help.
As we all do, we all need perspective.
The way that I internalized whatyou just said it's who's in your
orbit. Its who's in your constellation
that you can rely on. That can push you that can
(24:14):
challenge you. That can keep hold you
accountable. Or keeps me in check all the
time. And I'm curious when you're
thinking about people that are supporting and helping you, who
can you give thanks to for any of these things that you've
spoken about Aaron Rasmussen is an has been wonderful and
beautiful mentor of mine. He is the co-founder of
(24:36):
masterclass. He started a company called
outlier really encourage people check that out.
It's like an alternative option of Education of accredited
University for like fraction of Cost, he's an inventor, he's a
screenwriter like way, just a wonderful and just an amazing
person really interesting guy. He has been here from the
beginning of the ladies, get paid Journey when it was just an
(24:58):
idea. And I remember emailing him
after I wrote the essay and it went a little viral, and I was
like I think there's something here even though like it was
just again, like energy. Right.
And I talk things out with them and he's like, yeah, you do
something here. Susan line, who is the CEO and
founder of Bill. My girl Ventures has had an
(25:19):
incredible career. She greenlit Desperate
Housewives and lost when she worked at ABC entertainment.
I've been the CEO of Martha Stewart Company, Gilt, groupe.
Now, she's this venture capitalist and she has been
there from the beginning. Saying, yes, there is something
like you got this. You got this.
So, this is how we should all beact.
You can impact somebody's life. So much by doing so, little just
(25:42):
saying, you got this and those people have consistently been
there for me. The years and I'm incredibly
grateful to both of them and a number of others, it seems like
a lot of these connections, these really powerful kind of
either mentors are guiding lights.
Are people that you just either,what reached out, cold or how
did these connections happen? Did you relationships have been
(26:03):
the key to everything any job that I've ever had, in my life
did not come from a cold application.
It came from a relationship camefrom an introduction.
And the people that I've met either were sort of randomly in
my Orbit, whether it was an old boss of mine actually met my
stepmother on a Lane in ladies, get paid the book.
I will chapter on networking if you had to pick one chapter to
read that, absolutely. Is it because networking exists
(26:26):
and should exist within your company as well.
So it's the building relationships.
The people you also work with aswell as new people that you want
to meet. But I do want to say, I have a
very awkward actually at events.This is literally why I have
become like a producer host of events because it gives me a
purpose. Like I know what I'm doing
there. And so I've been at a wedding.
(26:47):
I swear, I'm too nervous to go up to people.
I get like, really sweaty, like,I'm like super uncomfortable, I
guess. Then you start hosting.
I'm probably not what a lot of people think that I could
actually huge introvert. I was at an event with my
partner Ashley. And you know, there was this
woman there, Beth Comstock, she'd been the former Vice chair
(27:07):
of innovation at GE and Ashley like we need introduce
ourselves. I'm like, I couldn't do it.
I was like there was a line of people waiting to meet her.
I'm like I was I could not do it.
Couldn't do it. I was like, I'm gonna stay by
the wine and the cheese. Always a good place to be.
This is pre-pandemic. Obviously.
After he's like, screw you. I'm going, she goes, and I'm
watching the very animated, like, okay, so it's going well,
(27:30):
finish speaking. Ashley's like, I gotta tell you
all about this so we leave and she says, guess what she knew
us. She knew all about ladies, get
paid and not only did she know us?
She had found the person who artdirected our website, our logo,
and she hired them What? Wow, I was like, oh my God, this
(27:50):
is crazy. And then I was like, I'm getting
coffee with her next week and she did and then she had to go
Ashley. Yeah.
And she's become a mentor. You know, since then has made
some introductions that have made us money, brand
Partnerships just a wonderful person.
So now I go up to people and theway that I do it the way because
I'm still very nervous, but I kept kick my butt because I
(28:11):
think you know, what would actually do.
And also I have to report back to her.
And you know what? I Was still awkward.
That's okay. Like you're building a muscle
here but at, you know, but then these beautiful relationships
have happened life changing relationships.
I mean, I kind of is connected to this idea of what fuels you
but like, what is, what is your North Star?
(28:32):
You're driving for a central motivator.
Does it still feel the same thing that it was?
Is that fire still coming from the same place of anger and
frustration? Or is there something different
now? No, I don't have the anger
anymore. Mostly because I'm tired,
there's just so much hair. All stuff happening in the
world, that I can't feel my feelings around it.
I've had to learn what place that that has.
(28:54):
I mean, it's always connecting to like my why you know why I'm
doing this, who I'm doing this for, you know, Imagining the
person that I'm speaking to. So, even in writing the book,
there's actually some good advice for anybody who's
suffering from any kind of like impostor syndrome or feeling a
lot of pressure to perform. I used to think about, am I
going to get on a New York Timesbestseller.
List is my editor going to be happy.
(29:15):
Like am I gonna sell a lot of copies and So I would spin my
wheels freaking out about that largely because I have no
control over that. Like, literally, I could do my
best and I could get cancelled, right.
So it's like that was not helping Focus.
So what I ended up shifting toward is like really imagining
a person like opening my book and reading it.
(29:36):
All right? And so writing, it sort of
making it smaller in that way, breaking it down, making it
personal was very helpful. And then the other thing that I
shifted to is also making it about me.
It's not about the wage. Gap is not about the audience,
actually, a lot of times it's what am I learning?
Can I find joy in what I'm doing?
Can I challenge myself? It's about the things that you
(29:57):
have, maybe more agency over because then you can sort of
guarantee success. If you don't see yourself
gaining momentum, you're just going to lose it.
So that's sort of part of the issue of, you know, having the
fire to close the wage Gap. It's just not going to happen.
Like that's like our joke is we have a business that exists to
try to put ourselves out of business.
So we're not going to close these gaps.
(30:19):
And so even though that is the Starting Fire, it's not healthy
to constantly stay focused on something that's just never
going to happen. So it's like, okay, what can I
do that? I can see that momentum
happening and that is things like finishing, a chapter of my
book and being proud of myself and like learning how to get
over writer's block, and, you know, Finding joy in that.
So, my y has gotten smaller. I love that this is leaving.
(30:42):
This is in a place of optimism. I'm curious given where you are
now? What have you?
I learned recently, that's left you looking up.
I am really optimistic about women getting way, more
aggressive with investing they. We've seen that all through the
pandemic GameStop now, crypto and NF.
T is like there is money to be made.
(31:03):
People are getting rich, they'renot women, it's really
interesting. It's like, when I started
ladies, get paid, I've been verydriven by long time.
Stats right again, systemic in French, but we're watching now.
Statistics happening real time, we're watching the Fact, that
15% of Bitcoin Traders are women, okay, so we're going holy
shit. We got to make a difference now,
like there is an urgency to this, that's really exciting.
(31:26):
And so we're seeing way more women ready to invest their
money and that's a fabulous, youknow, again, you know, always
invest with caution, don't invest things, you know, you
can't afford to lose except yourex cetera but that's the energy
I'm seeing. So we're doing a lot more stuff.
Ladies get crypto, you're going to see more things coming out
from us. So I'm super jazzed and I'm
learning just long with the Restof them as we bring this to a
(31:48):
close along, the train of thought of models and a long
train of thought of even, even looking outside, this nation, if
there are any countries or municipalities or anything,
anyone that you've seen that, you are looking up to that.
You think is doing it, right? It's rough Cuts Like You can
look at countries like New Zealand and, you know,
Scandinavian countries and like they have great policies but
(32:10):
they're also just different countries, you know, than ours
like were We're a bunch of little countries put together
and and with radically differentcall, you do go back like the
Minnesota culture. Say so Mommy's little skeptical
of like lets you know, making one's 1 comparisons.
That being said, we're obviouslyway down the totem pole when it
comes to things like paid family, leave so pretty much.
Everybody else is doing it. Better than I still have to find
(32:32):
that space. That means we can be that
person. Yeah, right now know that you,
you know, you Cobble together, little things from one companies
doing this. Okay, cool.
I'm going to take because it's not a one-size-fits-all for a
company for a person for a tree.So you take elements of what
will work for you in your context.
That's, that's the key so rapid-fire round.
(32:52):
You've got three to five secondsto come up with the first word
that comes to your brain. I think this is appropriate,
favorites book. I really like an acronym.
I allowed to say a Russian for anybody that you want.
Okay? Favorite movie.
Oh my gosh. Okay.
(33:14):
I love rom-com. So we're just going to go with
My Best Friend's Wedding. Favorite foreign word.
Oh gosh, muff, do not so that this isn't a trick.
Murph is the word fam in French but backwards and it is a it is
(33:37):
a certain kind of it's called Viva La.
It's a slang word in French. So there you go.
I'm a kid, I lived in France. And for a little bit, I'm
obsessed with the with slang fruit.
Apple. Yeah, yeah.
Pink lady Z. Let's go back to the words.
Let's see what you come up with favorite curse word.
It was awesome. Like fugazi, I don't know.
(33:58):
Now, time for the the either or so Android or iPhone.
I found mountains are Beach mountains, GIF or GIF, GIF East
Coast or West Coast. It's got to be West Coast.
Now, maybe that's moved here, sopancakes or waffles.
Waffles texture, the texture, last one, chocolate, or vanilla
(34:21):
chocolate with vanilla. Can I ask why you bit your
tongue there? Why you held you like?
Okay, so I'm a big sweet person like that is my like I'm Very,
very healthy but only because I'm very, very sweet tooth.
So, like vanilla base with, like, chocolate, like chunks in
it. I'm like big on the texture.
(34:42):
Did you give him a just like, straight chocolate or like
chocolate ice cream? I don't like it.
But if you don't got the chocolate chunks in there, then
you know, it's just like why even try?
Like it's trash. I don't know.
That was the hardest question. I got all day.
So thank you for helping me. I really like to thank, I'm
loving it. That was the most difficult
question of the whole. The whole interview, Howard
(35:05):
Stern, your Inspirations. Well that's easy.
Chocolate and vanilla. Hamish know the movie.
I feel terrible. I could I started my career in a
minute film producing. This is so like I there's just I
guess I just smoked too much weed.
I don't know. Definitely.
Okay went away. Good answers but now so thank
(35:26):
you so much if people want to find you learn more about what
you're doing both Claire, Wasserman, And ladies, get paid.
Where can they do that? Yes, thank you for asking,
ladies, get paid.com ladies getting a.com / book.
You can follow us on all social channels at.
Ladies get paid you can find me and follow me at Claire gets
paid. Congratulations you guys for
(35:48):
this wonderful show. Thank you for having me on.
Thank you all for listening and thank you to the editor because
you had a job to do today for folks that love with her hearing
today and want to hear and see more.
We have the complete uncut and raw episodes in video form
available. People online on our fan page
via patreon at www.levitt.com up.com fans there.
(36:11):
You can support, what we're creating here.
Sound bites, that didn't make itto the Final Cut gain wisdom
from our guests score. Merch, be the first to access
our content and more also we'd like to take a second to thank
you for joining us today. So, if you haven't already,
please be sure to leave a ratingand review of the podcast and
your app of choice. Leave looking up is hosted by
(36:36):
myself. Nia Ludovic and my co-host.
Amir Jan Dolly, and produced by our small.
But Mighty team at Moon 31, a company dedicated to creating
platforms for Meaningful conversation.
That tackle, the important issues of today, this episode
was created to the combined efforts of myself as executive
producer and our producer, Kyle gets with support from Eric
(36:58):
Karen. The moon 31 team.
Also includes lead. Producer, Lou Chic Lotus.
Lead designer on Draya, Kang glass slipper, media, and
engineer. Justin jet, Carter who also
scored this episode. Original theme music by Brady W
and background music. Provided from Blue Dot sessions.
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