Hugh Vail: Be Whole

Sitting down with Hugh Vail is always such a pleasure. I am hoping we will make this a more regular occurrence. 

Hugh is someone who knows scriptural text very well as he's made it part of his studies. As we dive into the scripture, "for god so loved the world he sent his only begotten son" and if there is a more accurate translation, we engage in a fascinating conversation about truths.

Hugh share's about a recent conversation with a client of his that leads to an interesting discussion about the lgtbq+ community and actual scriptural text around truth. "a man shall not lay with a boy" was not to say that same sex attraction was not okay, but that a man should not lay with a boy. Simple truths.

Is it possible that there are more accurate truths within scriptural text and reframes that could allow for you to deprogram out of religion?

Have you ever heard of the phrase plant sacrament? Hugh heard this one day and then had it synchronistically come up later in a conversation which led him to an experience with a plant sacrament that is beautiful.

Life is not a random series of events, but is working in your behalf. There is truth in all things, are you paying attention to what the truths are trying to share with you?

Join us for this insightful conversation!

LINKS:

Head to Hugh's website to learn about his upcoming events: https://www.mustangmedicineevents.com/


Follow Hugh on his social accounts:

TicTok @Cowboy_Jesus
IG @mustang_medicine_
FB @mustangmedicine1

Let's stay in touch!

IG: @amanda.joy.loveland
FB Amanda Joy Loveland
www.amandajoyloveland.com
YouTube: Amanda Joy Loveland

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:02):
Welcome, welcome, welcome. I am thrilled that you
are here. And I'm excited toshare another episode with Hugh
Vale, who, I had some questionsas far as some things that I was
receiving. And he was one of themore knowledgeable people that I
know when it comes toscriptures. And so I wanted to
have this conversation with himand really dissect what the real
meaning is, as it was coming infor me. So I'm excited to share

(00:25):
this episode with you. And justreminding you again, of that
amazing experience that I am cocreating with three other
unbelievable women down inSpringdale, Utah, September 22,
through the 25th. And this is anin body experience, to really
fully embody all that you arebecause this is part of this is
why we're here to really ownthese pieces of us to understand

(00:47):
more and more what we're capableof to learn our gifts to embody
those gifts to embody all thoseparts of us that we think we
should hide and shame. Andinstead, the question is, and
naturally, this actually comesup in the podcast today with you
that we are here to become moreand more Christed and coming to
our Christ and self, which meanswe get to embody all parts of

(01:09):
us. So if this is ringing trueto you go secure your spot, head
over to my website, Amanda joyloveland.com, forward slash
inbody. That's i n, d, O, d y.
And again, that website isAmanda joy loveland.com inbody,
forward slash inbody I Nbody.

(01:30):
Now let's dive in. So Hugh, andI had pushed record, but we were
chatting, and we just continuedhaving a conversation. So
there's really not anintroduction here. So you are
just going to join us as we justpick up having a natural
conversation. So let's dive intothis conversation with Hugh
Vale.

(01:50):
I was listening to maybe it wascreate the love Mark groves. It
was somebody like that somebodyreally liked the vast majority
of their thoughts. And he wastalking about how difficult it
is to put his stuff out onsocial media platforms. And he
said, because there's thingsthat will change. And I'll go

(02:13):
back and he's like, how I madepeace with that is, I feel like
I'm just learning out loud.
Yeah. And I feel like that'swhat my tiktoks is going to be
is just, yeah, this is what I'mlearning out loud. I don't think
it's what Moses wrote on stonetablets. It's not what I'm
writing on stone tablets, but itis. It is the it's the wrestle
that I'm in right now. And theseare the thoughts that I'm having

(02:34):
about it. And this is what makesmost sense to me. And I'll
probably edit it in a couple ofyears and be like, Oh, silly to
write and be like, This is whatI was really trying to get to.
Well, that. But I feel like anythought leader, any anybody
that's constantly seeking, Iknow that I've heard from many,

(02:58):
many people that they had thatsame thing like yeah, I believe
this a year ago, but now Ibelieve this today, but it's
okay, that that's where I was ayear ago, because it does show.
It almost gives all of uspermission just to be where
we're at. At this time. Yeah, Ithink there's beauty in that.
Totally. Yeah. Because we don'thave to be perfect this idea of
perfection.

(03:19):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
That's, that's Matthew 548. It'smy most favorite ancient
scripture to share. Because itsays Be there for perfect. But
yeah, it's not. It's not anaccurate translation for today's
English. I think it was anaccurate translation in the

(03:41):
1600s. But in today'stranslation, a better more
accurate interpretation of it isbe therefore whole.
And then bodied. Now we're gonnahave that
part. Yeah, that's whatwholeness is, right? wholeness
is like it's intact. It's allthere. And, and if it's there,

(04:07):
then I'm then I'm embodying it,right, where I'm trying to get
to embodiment. And that's, a lotof people call me because I do
you know, I do coaching calls,and mostly my coaching calls.
I'm not a, I wouldn't say it'slife coaching or anything. It's
more like, what's the thingyou're suffering with right now,

(04:29):
and you're struggling to findpeace about it. And so I just
helped people like, change thestory or look at it from a
different perspective. And a lotof times, they're not at peace
with what's manifesting in theirlife, and they're like, I'm
doing the yoga, I'm doing thebreath work. I'm, I'm doing my

(04:51):
meditations. And I'm going Yeah,but what's manifesting is what
you're embodying and what you'reWhat you're doing yoga for your
meditations for is what youwant. But what you want is not
what you've embodied. And somanifestation only happens from
embodiment, not from desire. Andthey're like, oh, and so it's

(05:14):
like, well, now, what is it thatyou really want? Let's go embody
that and look at what do we needto change in the way that we
think, act and believe, becausethen it'll hit the cellular
level. And then you won't eventhink about going and getting
it, it will just show up to youbecause that's the idea of
manifestation. Right? Butmanifestation comes from
embodiment, it's embodiment iseverything. Yeah, because

(05:38):
especially in my practice,right, NLP you with the
subconscious mind, if you'renot, if your outer world is
constantly showing you thisthing, it's a belief that you're
holding internally. So shiftthat, reprogram that, and then
start to your point. That's theembodiment. But that reminds me,
I just had a conversation with awoman who was sharing about her
life, it was someone that I justmet, and she was like, I was

(06:01):
doing all the things within myreligion, I was praying I was
doing, the family will meet, youknow, all the things that we're
told we will do. And if we dothat, then we'll be blessed. And
I feel like as you're sharingthis, I'd be curious if the
person you're talking to orpeople come from a Mormon
background, because that's whatwe're so ingrained, or we were
so ingrained that if you dothese things, then you'll

(06:22):
receive blessings. And it'slike, well, that's not
necessarily true, because Shithappens. And if you're holding
that internal belief, or you'renot embodying it to what you
were saying, and integratingthose pieces in it, you're not
going to get what you'reactually wanting. So it's
interesting just to see theprogramming that continues
playing out over and over again.
Yeah, I would say it's anyonethat's coming from an organized

(06:46):
religion that teaches thechecklist way of getting
blessings. Yeah, like, I've gotone guy that's a, he's a
practicing Jew. I've got a lotof people, of course, are local
to Utah. So the odds of beingLatter Day Saints is really
high. But then there's, there'salso just general Western

(07:10):
Christianity. And all of themshare that same. If I do this,
then I get that in thatchecklist. way of thinking and
acting and believing is going toget me what I want. And that's
meritocracy. It's all based onmerits and embodiment, it's not

(07:30):
based in merits embodiment, it'sbased in Well, the way I break
embodiment down is emotions,body, so there's the systems in
the body, like the endocrinesystem, the nervous system, the
digestive system, so you've gotemotions, and then your bodily

(07:51):
system systems. And then yourmind, that's meant is, is mind,
which is your prefrontal cortex.
It's how you tell the story. Soif you can get your emotions and
your thoughts, the story thatyou're telling, and your body to
respond to all of that. That's,well, Joe Dispenza talks about

(08:14):
that. That's how you getembodiment, that's how you
manifest things is aligning thethoughts, the feelings and the
emotions, all into that oneparticular aim. But that's
really how you think, act andbelieve it just is who you are,
you're not trying to think a newthought, you're not trying to

(08:34):
act in a new way. You you'vealready got it at the cellular
level. And, and that'sembodiment. And we're embodying
our programs, is the chance thatthat's the challenge. So it's
like, well, that's why thingsare repeating, or that's why
things are showing up the waythat they're showing up. So

(08:55):
let's look at the program. I gota client that called me this
morning, our appointments, notfor another 10 days, and she
called me and she's, I giveeveryone like an emergency call,
if they've got something I'mstruggling with. So she she, you
know, dialed the bat line thismorning and was like, she's
like, Okay, this is my emergencycall. And I'm like, okay, and it

(09:18):
was beautiful what she said, shesaid, I went down to tucan
theater, and I watched Joseph inthe coat of many colors. And she
said, I felt like there was someLGBT innuendos that were in
there. And she said, some of mybest friends are, like, same
same sex attraction. So but Ifound that I was getting upset

(09:42):
at the innuendos that were inthere for the LGBT community.
And she goes, then I was gettingupset at myself for being upset
that that and I felt like theywere sneaking it in and they
shouldn't have been sneaking itin and she He's just like, I
don't have any peace about thiswhole thing. And I love the LGBT
community, I just need to, thisis something that showed up I

(10:06):
need to make peace with. And soit's like, oh, well, all we got
to do is look at theprogramming. Right? All that's
showing up is old programming,that new programming, new
thoughts, new ways of acting andbelieving haven't quite fully
been embodied, even though she'sembodying those new ways in love
and acceptance more and moreevery day. But that old

(10:27):
programming is showing up andcausing inner conflict with her
and it's like, okay, well,let's, let's deprogram what was
there, and that's, we don't getto dive into that hole. But
that's, that's actually a prettyeasy thing. For Christians, or
not even Christians, it could bejust any organized religion that

(10:52):
says, gays are not loved.
That's, that's Paul's teachings.
And, and the word forhomosexuality in the New
Testament, the Greek version isnot even a Greek word, he took
two words. And he combined theminto his own word, which is
called a neologism. Neo meaningnew logos, meaning a word. And

(11:12):
we should do that I'm a huge fanof of creating new words, but he
created a new word. And so it'sreally hard to translate. What
is he actually saying? Becauseit's his own word, right. But
when you piece it together,what it's saying is like an

(11:33):
older man should not have sexwith a young under aged boy. And
this only shows up twice. Thisword only shows up twice in all
of the scriptures. And it's notsaying same sex consenting,
adult attraction. It's sayingsame sex should not sleep with

(11:55):
young children. And I think allof us, I think, I think that's
appropriate. I think we shouldnot do that. Oh, that's
that's actually a problem inIran and Pakistan, and that my
husband was talking to me aboutthis when he was deployed in the
military, it was reallychallenging to see all these men

(12:16):
that would have their little boyprostitutes. Like that is a
legit issue that still goes ontoday. Totally. So is it
possible that that was what wasalive back then? And that's what
he was speaking to was a grownman is not specially with a
child period.
Yep. And he was speaking tothat, because it did exist. And

(12:36):
it was very prominent as well,like, their culture challenges
are no different than what we'reseeing today. They were
experiencing back then. Yeah,yeah. And so she's like, Oh,
well, I had been taught or, youknow, to believe that, that God
just hates gays. And like, well,of course, you were taught that

(12:59):
and you're a good students. Sothat all make sense. But, but
let's just go back to class forfive minutes. Look at what the
the details are behind this, andthen just realize that that
interpretation got that drifted,that that drifted pretty far off
course. And she's like, Oh, thisis amazing. So, you know, you

(13:23):
just provide some of thosedetails. And it's pretty easy to
deprogram things that programsthat separate and divide us are
definitely programs that need tobe undone.
Well, and I love that youtouched on this piece of the
things that we we were taughtbecause in my right now, in my

(13:45):
experience, and things thatcontinue to show up for me, is
it likely that even JosephSmith, the way that we were
taught of who he was, isinaccurate, then I believe
that's very true. Same thingwith Jesus, and some of these
different, different parts. Andwe can look at the motivation
for why that's the case. And wecan dive into that. But I love

(14:05):
it when we and when we haveclients that come in that are
willing to ask the question, andare willing to actually be
curious as to why this isshowing up because that
curiosity piece, and thequestion is, is, is what will
continue assisting us in growingand so the programs and I just
spoke to this before we startedhitting record, I actually am
getting to a point in my lifewhere I love seeing. It's so

(14:29):
fascinating, the programs thatwe're holding on to like, wow,
you know, tithing popped up forme the other day of the idea of
giving part of who I am and allthe things that to others,
without any kind ofreciprocation really or thinking
I'll be blessed with showing upin the weirdest place for me, or
even the idea of like, you knowwhat I was telling a friend of

(14:50):
mine, I'm kind of done like, Iwant to go find my community and
like go build a commune you andI have talked about this. Go
build our own like societysomewhere and she's like, other
pioneers did that. And I'm like,Holy shit, I didn't even think
about that. And they went andbuilt their own community
because what? And so it was justreally interesting some of those
pieces that come into thatthere's a lot of beauty in some

(15:13):
of them. But when we get to askthat question and be curious,
and this is what kind of led tome reaching out to you, and now
we're recording is, is I've beenreceiving, I'm channeling a new
book. And it's, it's interestingthe information that's coming
in. And I didn't share this partwith you. But after I channeled
some information, I kept hearingthe Scripture over and over and

(15:34):
over again, For God so loved theworld he sent his only begotten
son. I'm like, Alright, spirit,I hear you why, why you can? Why
are you continuing to share thiswith me, is like, I know that,
that there's some translationsin here that are not 100%
accurate. And so that's whereI'm like, I need to reach out to
you, because you are just,you're just amazing when it
comes to this. And then thankyou for saying yes to actually

(15:57):
recording this so that we can,you know, these are fun. And
maybe we will do do morethoughts with you, as far as you
know, having you on more andmore. But I would love to get
your thoughts on on thatscripture, as far as what you
know, with the translations. Andif it was, what the more correct
translation is of thatscripture.

(16:20):
Yeah, so it's a prettystraightforward scripture. In
terms of the translation.
There's one thing that is reallyinteresting, that I think, lends
it what I'm always trying to do,and it doesn't always work. And
I'm not saying that it shouldwork does is just what I'm

(16:41):
always trying to do, is thatthese ancient stories have
survived, I think they'vesurvived for good reason. I
think they've survivedpredominantly because of
organized religions. And I thinkthat organized religions have a
place within society and that weshould not get rid of them, I
think we should just place themthis is what I've done is this

(17:06):
is how I've made peace with it.
I think the religions where I'mvery appreciative of their
existence, is that they are thekeepers of the records. And for
me, we don't have these records.
And I think they're veryimportant to have if if we don't
have the religions. Now, wherethe religions get a little wonky

(17:29):
for me is how they interpretthose ancient stories. So
thankfully, we can go back tothe way that they were
originally written. And this,this gets challenging for some
people, it's, for some reason,it's not challenging to me, I

(17:50):
actually really love it. Andthat is looking at who wrote the
original writings. So theScripture we're referring to, is
in the book of John, John 316.
Very, very popular scripturethat's that's used in, in
Christian like Christianity allover. What the Scripture is

(18:12):
implying is that there's aheavenly Father who sent His
most favored son, because hisother children are not that
great. And he's got to, he's gotto sacrifice his most favored

(18:33):
one. So that the other ones thataren't as great can now be
enough. And, and that I'll getthat whole idea gets summarized
into, you know, what's known asthe atonement. Well, here's
what's interesting. The fourgospels, John, being one of the

(18:54):
four Gospels, was not written byJohn, it was anonymously
written. We don't know who wroteit. We don't know how John's
name got associated with it. AndJohn, and the other gospels,
he's kind of an outlier. So whenyou plug in the gospels,

(19:18):
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Johninto a computer system, and you
say, how much is this overlaps?
Like, how many stories isMatthew, Mark, Luke, and John,
all sharing that are the samestory and some of the some of
the Gospels, there's a reallyhigh I believe it was the book
of Mark, see the marker,Matthew, there's only 7%

(19:40):
difference. So so that writer isonly writing 7% of what was
written is unique. John, on theother hand, he only shows up 10%
of the time 10% of what'swritten in John It shows up in
other in other gospels 90%, ofwhat John writes doesn't show up

(20:05):
anywhere else. Which is really,which is really interesting.
Because if Jesus is tellingeveryone, all the things well,
and these are the things thatare most important to John, it's
interesting that those thingsdon't show up in other gospels
or in other letters from Paul.

(20:28):
So, you know, a lot of people,we don't really think about that
we don't see that data into aplug it into a computer. One of
the things that John is sayingis in 316, is, it's like
supporting this idea of anatonement. And
when you break it down, whatwhat's being said, is pretty

(20:52):
straightforward in the Greekexcept for the word, eternal
life. So at the very end, itsays, you know, it says, And
whoever shall believe on Him,meaning Jesus shall have eternal
life. But eternal life can, thatword can actually be translated
into, for whoever believes onhim will develop the character,

(21:18):
that will be long sustaining inhis life. That all of a sudden
implies that when we step intoour Christ consciousness, then,
and we follow the, I think Jesusis the poster child for Christ

(21:39):
consciousness. And what thatmeans is that Christ is not
Jesus's last name. Right? If youwanted to say this person is
anointed, and you spoke Greek,you would say this person is a
Christ. And if you didn't speakGreek, but you wanted to say,
This person is anointed, and youspoke Hebrew, you would say this

(22:00):
person is a Messiah. And they'resaying the exact same thing
system two different twodifferent languages. And so I
think Christ is the person whoare sorry, I think Jesus is the
person who embodies what itmeans to be a Christ. And I
think that's available to everyhuman. I think, anything that

(22:26):
Jesus said about himself is trueabout every person on the
planet, if they want it to betrue for them, right? I agree.
Yeah. And so whenever we seethings that are being said about
Jesus, or said from Jesus, thatdoes not apply to every other
person. It's not true for everyother person, I struggle with

(22:47):
that. And that's where I startedthinking, well, there's probably
another way of looking at what'strying to be said, like, I have
a really close friend. And we'vebeen friends since seventh
grade. So I'll call him and I'llsay, I'm working on a new
thought. Try to hear what I'mtrying to say not what I'm

(23:10):
actually going to say. Right?
Because I don't have the wordsyet to articulate or define it.
And I think sometimes that'strue in the Scriptures. And
these ancient stories, so Ithink, what's what's happening
when you break it down, here'sanother thing, sometimes the
word God, so God so loved theworld, that word can be Elohim,

(23:32):
which means like, your actualheavenly parents, or that word,
can be like, just a general likea deity. Like it's just, it's
just, it's God. Not meaning notmy heavenly Father, it's just a
God. And so that's an that's aninteresting thing. It's, it's

(23:54):
almost like it could it could betranslated, or maybe ought to be
interpreted as the gods havecreated a plan. And we're all
part of that plan. So therefore,and we're also God's, this is
Psalms Chapter. Psalms 82. Versesix, is something that Jesus

(24:17):
quoted to the Pharisees and theSadducees. And the scribes who
are calling him bless. Like hewas a blasphemer. Right. And if
you had laws that if youblaspheming, God, you could get
killed for that. So Jesus issaying, I'm a god. And they're

(24:40):
like, what? So clearly, it's,it's, it's like he's a normal
person. He's just stepping intohis inner Christ. And when you
step into your inner Christ, youhave to start remembering and
becoming aware of certaintruths. And so Jesus is like,
why is this so difficult for youguys? This isn't the book of

(25:05):
Matthew. He says, Why is this sodifficult for you? Is it not in
the scriptures that you believein, you read in, and then he
quote, Psalms 82, verse six,which says, Ye are all gods. And
so he's just saying, look, it's,it's in the ancient writings
from, from that you guys areactually reading and that you

(25:25):
believe in that it's saying, Youare gods, too. And so he's just
saying, I'm just stepping intomy inner Christ, and therefore
I'm remembering who I really amI, and what this whole human
experience is about. And,and so maybe the translation is
that, that the gods loved, lovedus all so much, that anyone

(25:50):
could be sent down and couldstep into their inner Christ and
become the great example ofwhat's available for all of us.
And if you'll follow that path,then you will obtain the
character that will live on withyou throughout your life, and
you won't perish. And it's like,well, that, to me makes a lot

(26:14):
more sense. Kind of deep, andyou kind of got to dive into a
lot of, you know, a lot ofcontext around it.
So I love all that. For me, it'spopping some of the things that
I was shown and I was seeingwhich I'm like, Oh, I'm hesitant
to share this. So I might notbut the words that stuck out to

(26:34):
me were the only begotten,begotten and son, su n or S O n,
because yeah, the the idea thatwe know we radiate energy, we
know we have a unique signaturethat has a frequency and an
energetic blueprint to it. Andthrough a podcast that you

(26:56):
actually shared with me herethat was talking about the
Essenes, who I believe Jesus wasin a scene, talked about how
that energy comes down and fromour hands and as reflected to
fuel the sun. And it'sinteresting, then when you start
diving into that, a little bitof that thought, that Here is
someone who, let's say, let'ssay that, yeah, maybe we created

(27:20):
this plan as far as this earthand what we were wanting to
choose to experience but we gotso consumed in consumption of
everything that is outside of usto fuel us that we missed the
point of everything startswithin and then radiates out.
And because we were so addictedand asleep to the consumption

(27:41):
that then here, you know, I'mgoing to send down this being to
amplify, to learn how to becomeChristed to amplify this son
energy, to raise his frequencyto be able to then connect
actually to other frequenciesand start to alchemize and then
move through his initiations ifyou will, and to becoming more

(28:06):
and more light to ultimatelyhave a light body to have
resurrection and and and performthose pieces to then show us
this can you do and then somewhat's I don't know what
Scripture that is you you'reable to do you know what
Scripture that is?
Yeah, like greater miracles youhave seen me do and you'll
you'll do those greater? Yeah,yeah. I don't remember the exact

(28:27):
chapter and verse. I'll findit but I think of that often.
And it is fascinating like towhat you're what you're quoting
with him, Jesus quoting Psalms,use, you know, in the
scriptures, it says, You areGod. So why is it that you're
now chastising me for sayingthat I am a God? It is in the
Scriptures? And it's the samething with that one? How is it
that we have forgotten thatJesus said this can you do and

(28:49):
then some, it wasn't here to bea martyr of the world? And you
asked me that question via textand you're talking about this?
Do I believe that Jesus died forour sins? No, I do not. And this
dives into an interesting topicthat if you're open, I'd love to
chat about. Yeah.
Well, and I would love to chatabout that. And it reminded me I

(29:13):
was in. In 2018, I was in anAyahuasca ceremony. And my
intention of going into theceremony was in you have to
understand going into IowaVaska. I had never done any
drugs ever in my life, really,or anything. So I had a friend

(29:36):
who is a brilliant quantumphysicist, and I had been
fasting that's a that's a methodof trying to embody get so clear
on my intention, and then embodya new way of thinking, acting,
believing that I was fastingpretty consistently to

(29:57):
understand how I could have suchclear Already on on great
spiritual things as what myfriend had. And I went up to go
went up north to go pick up thismassive load of hay. And I've
got like 150 bales of hay onthis big flatbed trailer, and
I'm driving 65 on i 15. And allof a sudden, it just dawns on

(30:19):
me, out of nowhere, I heard thisfeeling that said, he did a
plant sacrament. And I'd neverheard the word plant sacrament
like the term put together likethat. The next morning, where we
happen to be at a breakfast witha couple of people and the gal

(30:44):
that we were out of breakfastwith, she asked him, she says,
How do you dislike just flowsoff of your like off of you and
you're so brilliant. How did youget to learn all this stuff? And
he said, and you have tounderstand, I had known him for
like almost a year at thispoint. And he said, Oh, eight

(31:05):
years ago, I did a plantsacrament. So for one year, I
had never heard him talk aboutanything. I just thought he was
a smart, brilliant guy. And allof a sudden at this breakfast
happens to be within 12 hours ofme getting this, this clarity
while I'm on the freeway. So wehad carpooled to this meeting,

(31:27):
the breakfast is over, we jumpedin his car, and I like can't
even put the seatbelt on beforeI'm like, What the hell is a
plant sacrament. And he explainsit to me and he says, you know,
it's it's take these entheogensfrom a shaman and do it as if

(31:47):
it's a religious ritualsacrament for what your
intention is. And, and that'show I've always participated in
ceremonies, I treat it as asacrament. And, and so anyways,
he's, he's like, that's supercool that you got that this
leads me to going and doingayahuasca, I had never done any

(32:09):
I didn't even know what I Alaskawas. Two days later, a friend of
mine calls me up and he says,Hey, I'm playing music in this
ceremony, I feel really cold toshare you we have one spot open.
I took the spot. It happened tobe for the plant sacrament.
Ayahuasca and I went into it notknowing what the heck was, you

(32:29):
know, I knew was like threemonths out from from that phone
call. While I'm in the ceremony.
My intention is and I take thiscup of Ayahuasca as if the
sacraments being passed to meetthat's. And I had specifically
spoken to the shaman who wasfacilitating it. And I said this
would mean a lot to me, wouldyou like symbolically do it?

(32:50):
Like Give me it in this way. Soshe's like, passes me this
sacrament, after we've prayedover it. And my intention was to
know who I am. Yeah, I sit down.
In that we call them little,they call them a nest, right. So
you got your little like yogamat and your your well being in

(33:14):
your cute bucket. And then mytwo buckets, I did hurt. I did
it three times per violentlyeach time. But you know, it's
only like, a couple of minutesthat you do that. And then the
rest is was amazing for me. I'msitting there the medicine hits
me. And and I don't know any ofthese sensations I have no, I

(33:36):
have nothing to contextualizethis with. So I'm not really
panicking. I'm just kind oflike, I don't know what's
happened. And I look across theroom, and the whole room is lit
with natural light. So there'scandles everywhere. And there's
nothere's no other type of light
other than just light from aflame. And the flame says to me

(33:57):
from across the room, just likeone person talking to another
person face to face. It's likebeauty in the beast where the
candlestick toxin is alive. Andthe flame is talking to me not
the wax, you know, not thecandle holder, but the flame
itself. And it says to me, Youare the light of the world. And

(34:20):
it was so true to me that I hadto think for a little bit about
what the shaman had said to meas you you may learn things that
feel so true, that that you justfeel like everything is
complete. Ask questions, alwaysask more questions, if something
shows up and it feels reallyscary. Ask questions. And the

(34:42):
thing I experienced was thatthey were so profound and
powerful. It was hard to askquestions. So I sat with it for
a few minutes. And then I saidoh I've got to ask questions
about this because it just feltso true. Why would I even asking
felt like doubting and and Andthere was just nothing to doubt.
And so I said, I thought Jesuswas the light of the world. And

(35:05):
the flame says back to me, He isthe light of the world. So I sat
with that for a second, it wasalso true. So I sat with that.
And so then I thought, well,what's the best question I could
come up with? And the bestquestion I could come up with
under the medicine in pure loveand intention, it didn't feel
egotistical at all, I said, soam i Jesus. And the flames that

(35:29):
back in like, giggled andlaughed, like, like little cute
cue, like,they do that sometimes they
laugh at us. It's like, what?
Oh, this isn't fun. Yeah.
Yeah. And I was like, a littlefive year old, like, little five
year old who was like asking thequestion, why my Jesus? And the

(35:52):
flame laughed and said, No,you're huge. And Jesus says,
Jesus, and I said, But if he'sthe light of the world, and I'm
the light of the world, and thena beam of light shot, across the
room, to my heart, and a beam oflight shot up through the
ceiling, and it felt like it wasgoing to Jesus. And then a beam

(36:12):
of light shot to 12 other peoplethat were in the room, I was the
13th person in the room, and itshot to all 12 people. And it
said, everyone is the light ofthe world. And had I not ask
those questions I might have letmy ego run with it. You know,
when I came out of the medicinea few weeks later, or something
like that. And I said, ifeveryone's the light of the

(36:34):
world, like what more can Iunderstand about this, and
there's that scripture inMatthew that says, A candlestick
that's lit and put up on a hillcannot be hid under a bush. The
Scripture right before it thecandle flame quotes. And it's

(36:55):
Jesus. And he's quoting Jesus.
And, and what Jesus says is, hesays, You are the light of the
world. And a candle flame that'slit up on a hill can't be
hidden. So he's like saying,don't like You're the light of
the world. So don't hide yourlight. Yeah. And all of a
sudden, I realized, Oh, I hadthis program that somehow got in
that wasn't fully accurate, thatonly Jesus is the light of the

(37:16):
world. And, and I don't thinkit's true. Like, I'm fully
convinced now that that Jesuswas right, that I am the light
of the world. We are the lightof the world, everyone listening
to this as the light of theworld. And the question is, do
you want to step into thatlight? And stepping into the
light, I think is stepping intoyour, your Inner Inner Christ.

(37:38):
Oh, yeah. That's a beautifulstory. I'm so glad you shared
that. One. This brings up areally interesting piece,
because oftentimes, when peoplestep out of religion, it becomes
a little bit especially here inUtah, it is trendy, to step into
circles that are doing plantmedicine. And I love that you
brought up that it was a plantsacrament. Because I remember

(38:02):
listening to a Joe Rogan podcastwith Brian, I'm cannot say his
last name, but I put I will putthis in the show notes. There
are mirror Marine, somethinglike that. Okay, I know who
you're talking about.
And he wrote the book The roadto you lysis. And for someone
who's never done any kind ofplant ceremonies, he was so
caught, it's really fascinating.
I was really called to divinginto how plant ceremonies and

(38:24):
all this actually started. Andhe finds evidence that shows
that Aragon which is in barley,which I think is actually an
LSD, if I remember correctly,was in the chalices back in
Jesus's time. And it was verycommon to be used in different
sacraments, if you will, ordifferent worship services, and

(38:45):
that in you lysis people wouldprepare their entire lives to go
die before they died. Yeah. Andso when you when you do hold,
there's no question in my mindthat Joseph Smith was on plant
medicine several times in hisprophetic things and experiences
that he had. But I believe that,you know, these were gifts to us

(39:06):
in this earth of how to awakenmore and more of our Christ at
our gods selves. And when it'sdone in sacrament, when it's
done with that honoring thatintention and that almost
surrender to what is possible.
And I love that that shaman saidto ask questions. And it gets to

(39:27):
be a really beautifulexperience, but it's coming back
to the self. And I because Ifind often that in those
ceremonies that the people thatare facilitating know or don't
always hold that space, thatcontainer. And I guess so this
is my little plug that if youfeel called to do a planet
ceremony be really intense. bereally mindful with what your

(39:50):
intention is and who you'restepping into that space with.
If they're pointing you back toyou all the time. That's a good
a good sign if they're the onesthat are telling you what What
you should believe and what youshould think, go find someone
elsetotally. Because all they're
trying to be is propped up on apedestal, which is the it's the
foundation of what makesorganized religion, I think

(40:14):
drift is that they, they don'tteach you that the kingdom of
God is inside of you. They don'tthey, they don't highlight the
message that you are the lightof the world. They don't teach
you the inner Christ, they teachyou that someone is outside of
you, that is going to make yougood enough on the inside. And

(40:35):
so if you go to if you followthat trend, I guess it's like
ghosts, start doing these plantsceremonies, it's really easy to
get these messages. And if youdon't dive in and ask, then you
don't get the full clear answer.

(40:56):
And then you walk away from it,just like I could have walked
away from it thinking like, ohmy gosh, like my ego could have
absolutely grabbed that and beenlike shoe is the light of the
world. And, and while that wouldhave been true, what I'm really
saying would have beenabsolutely false. Right? What I
would have really been sayingis, I'm more light than you are.

(41:21):
And, and that's not true. That'sjust not true. I don't think
that's true for anyone. Sotherefore, I don't think it's
true for Jesus, I either I don'tthink Jesus was was any more
light. And that's not to takeaway his role of good for him
for stepping up. And like reallyembodying the inner Christ and

(41:41):
showing us what's possible. I dothink that's what happened.
Yeah, I would agree. And he hada community that fully assisted
him in, like, one of my favoritebooks is Anna, grandmother of
Jesus. And that book feels veryclean and very true with how she
channeled it, at least to me.
Like one, one of my favoritepieces is when they take him to,

(42:05):
I think it's the Great Pyramid,and they put him in that
sarcophagus. And he, it'sanother form of death, and that
he goes through and they are allseated at different positions
within the pyramid doingintonations, and all those
intonations would go into thesarcophagus. And I believe that
Jesus was going through thedifferent layers and levels of,

(42:27):
of deaths, so to speak, that weget to go to, to die into the
program to dying to the ego todying to the self, you know,
forever ago, you sent me thatmeme or that thing that was
something about the avatar, youknow, you get to play this
avatars, Amanda, but that's notmy you know, you remember that?
Yeah. And I, I can't tell youhow many clients that I've

(42:51):
worked with, and even ownpersonal experiences that I've
had, there's so many of us thatcan go in and have remembering,
as if we were Jesus or MaryMagdalene. And I was I was
watching this Gaia show theother day. And the speaker said
to the audience, how many of youwho have had memories of
lifetimes being Jesus, and Ican't tell you how many people

(43:14):
raise their hands, or MaryMagdalene raise their hands. So
I love that you spoke to this,if you didn't continue to ask
the questions, you would havewalked away thinking, I'm the
embodiment. I'm the resurrected,you know, whatever it is, I am
the Christ consciousness. Andit's like, yes. And so is
everyone else.

(43:34):
And so is everyone else. Yeah,yeah. Yeah. Which, which is I
think that's the great messageof oneness. Yeah,
I would agree. And that's whywhen Jesus did it, then he
showed us what was possible. Andthat's the case with anything in
this life. Somebody goes andbreaks a world world record for
the fastest runner. And all of asudden, five other people can do
it, where nobody could before.
Right? It's like you startbreaking these barriers, these

(43:57):
thresholds, and then it justgoes through. And that
information is now planted intothe earth because we are all
connected. Yeah. And that thisis possible. Yeah.
So you mentioned somethingearlier is really interesting.
It's something I've been workingon for about three years now.
And what I'm really trying toget clear on is what what is the

(44:26):
atonement? Right. And you, youand I both share the same
belief. And I got this belief afew years ago, and it wasn't a
belief that was so against my,my programming, like, like the
script that was running myprograms that Jesus died for me.

(44:47):
And it just came to me so clear,from my inner knowing, I think
what what would be easilydefined as like the Holy Ghost
or spiritual prompting, I justkept getting really clear. fear
that Jesus didn't die for mysins. And that about, like,
caused me to glitch because Iwas really, really bought in on

(45:10):
this and and I think beingbought in on it served me in the
time that it served me. So Idon't think people need to rush
to believe something different,I think I think they'll just
come to that that knowledgeeventually or maybe they don't.
And that still, I guess worksfor them and is what they want

(45:32):
to do but but you have to getinto. First off the word
atonement only shows up one timein the entire New Testament. I
didn't know that. And it'swritten by Paul. And so then we
got to understand a little bitabout Paul. And if you dive into

(45:54):
most theologians believe thatthere are pretty strong
contradictions between Paul'steachings and Jesus's teachings.
And I think that's a very normalthing. I don't think I think it
probably should be that way.
Because Paul never met Jesus.

(46:14):
Paul never worked with Jesus.
And so Paul claims his authorityfrom the vision that he had
about Jesus when he's on theroad to Damascus. And he then is
proclaimed, and I'll give you anexample. Paul says from from
that time that he's told to goshare these things that Jesus
was sharing to the Gentiles. AndJesus's teachings was to share

(46:38):
them to the house of Israel, notthe Gentiles. And so it's really
interesting that those, thosetwo narratives Don't, don't
align. And, and so we don't haveChristianity. If How would you
say that? Christianity existsbecause of Paul's teachings, not

(47:00):
Jesus's teachings,because Jesus was put up on a
cross and forever crucified.
And I think, Paul, this is theworld according to Hugh. I think
Paul feels bad about Paul. Ithink Paul shaming, Paul,
because Paul is a Jew, who ispersecuting and murdering Jews

(47:26):
who believe Jesus is embodyingthe inner Christ. He's so
committed that this is not athing. And that this guy is not
the guy that if you believe inhim, he's going to go beat you
up when maybe kill you. And thenone day, he's walking to

(47:47):
Damascus. And as he's walking,you know, the story goes that
Jesus, the resurrected Jesusshows up and is like, hey, stop
doing that, like stop killingpeople. Yeah. I don't know how
you don't wrestle with I don'tknow how Paul wrestles with his
shame of how bad you must feel.
Paul, then it's very clear, hegoes out to other congregations,

(48:12):
and they don't want to see him,they don't want to talk to him,
because he's the guy is going tobeat you up and possibly murder
you. So he's like struggling nowwith this new message that no
one gives a crap that he has.
And I, again, this is just me,me projecting my own shame

(48:34):
challenges and my own difficultthings of not feeling enough on
DePaul. I feel like that wouldbe very, very difficult. And so
I think that Paul needs a reallygood sales presentation to
explain to the people like No,no, no, I'm different. And I've
changed. And he's the one thatcomes up with this message that

(48:58):
Jesus has died for you for yoursins. Jesus doesn't ever say
that. The, the apostles, thedisciples who worked with Jesus
never said that. And when youlook at the current modern
teachings of the Atonement,compared to all the other

(49:20):
teachings that are thatChristianity is teaching. They
say that Jesus dying for you isthe most important of all the
principles and all the things tobelieve believe that one thing,
right. But the only person thatwas really strongly promoting
that and teaching that was Paul.
So this is where we don't have.

(49:42):
If we don't have Paul, weprobably don't have
Christianity. If we don't havePaul, we probably all still
remain Jews. And just some of usbelieve that Jesus, Jesus came
and embodied the inner Christ,and some of us are still like,
now someone else is going tocome to embody

(50:15):
edit, edit edit Hey, you are I'mlike dang it. We're right at a

(50:50):
good point. And you froze.
Yeah, it's all good. Um, youwere just talking about how it
cut off about we would still beJews. And we would still be
waiting for the embodiments.
Yeah, so some of us would wouldbelieve that Jesus had embodied
the the inner Christ, whichwould be known as the inner

(51:11):
Messiah. And then other peoplewould say, No, he didn't. And
we're still waiting for that,that one to come and show up.
Yeah. So Christianity, and allthese, these narratives around
Christianity that that many ofus are struggling and wrestling
with right now. Those come fromPaul, not Jesus or the other

(51:32):
disciples. So there's kind oftwo gospels that are being
taught like Paul's Gospel andJesus's gospel. And of course,
there's, there's a lot of goodoverlap over that. But a lot of
people think it's more unitedthan what it actually is, like,
we think it's more seamless andaligned than what it actually
is.
I had never heard that before.
So that's really interesting.

(51:54):
Where does the law of sacramentstart then? Because, you know,
in in Christianity andMormonism, I mean, you're taking
the sacrament and remembrance ofthe blood of the sun and the
body of the sun.
Yeah, and, you know, that's thelast supper that shows up. Some
of the Gospels mentioned theLast Supper, like John, John has
90% of his writings are veryunique, separate from what the

(52:17):
other gospels are saying, andJohn never mentions the Last
Supper, or the sacrament, whichmaybe he's just was like, hey,
the other guys have covered it.
It's even though that's not howit actually worked. Like when
you start really diving in, andagain, this can be really
upsetting to a lot of peoplethat are, are just in the verge
of wrestling with theirChristian programs. The first,
the oldest writings that we havecome from Paul. And that

(52:44):
happened approximately about 50ad. So 50 years after his death,
is where we start seeing some ofthe first writings of the New
Testament. And they're comingfrom a guy who never actually
met or worked with Jesus, one onone. Fast forward a few more
decades, and then you startseeing the other gospels showing

(53:08):
up. So what that means is thatMatthew didn't write the book of
Matthew, Mark didn't write thebook of Mark, there's even
debate that Paul didn't writethe letters that are attributed
to him. And that's, that's,it's, it's really interesting
stuff. Because if you wrote aletter, and I wrote a letter,

(53:28):
people could read those letters.
And they could be like, This isnot the same voice, right? Like,
who keeps using F words. Andthis other letter that's over,
over here, we don't know whowrote that one. But they never
use any efforts. And they, they,they write as if they graduated
Oxford, in the EnglishDepartment. And Hugh writes as

(53:52):
if he like, lives in a frickinbarn. And, and so we can see
these letters from Paul, andthey have two different voices
to it, even though they'resubscribed. And so it's like,
that's interesting. And so it'sjust getting into the
historicity. And what you haveis you have people that are just
trying to share this message.
And this is the best way toshare it, because Instagram

(54:13):
hasn't been invented yet. Right?
And so it might get a littlemessy, and how that gets how
that gets shared. But it becomescommon enough to where people
are like, Oh, that scroll that'swritten. Mark wrote that one.
But we know that Mark didn'tactually write it. We know John
didn't write. So anyways, TheLast Supper is where we get the

(54:36):
sacrament. And this is whereJesus is, you know, he's just
saying like, hey, take up this,this, this bread to remind you
of the body and the innerChrist, right and take this wind
or remind you of the blood. AndI think I think that it's still

(55:00):
has a lot of room for innerChrist interpretations.
Why especially if it was on theeve before they knew what was
going to happen, they knew whatwas Christ is walking into, and
the next phases that he wasgoing to be doing in what he was
here to do.
Yeah. Yeah. And so the questionbecomes like, Well, what was he

(55:24):
there to do? Was he really thereto die for my sins. And, you
know, there's some gospels thatare written out there that most
theologians really appreciatethe, the authenticity of it, the
kind of the cleanliness of it,it hasn't been messed with as
much as some of the others.
That's the last Gospel ofThomas. It's the, the last

(55:47):
Gospels of Peter, and the lastwritings of Mary Magdalene. And
a lot of those writingsactually, really, when you dive
into inner Christ, those arereally good gospels to go read,
because it's easier to get theinner Christ Message. And, and

(56:09):
Mary says, in all three versionsof the gospels that we have from
her in the three differentlanguages, Mary says that her
and John are talking to Jesus.
And John asked this question toJesus and says, what's the

(56:32):
greatest sin in the world? AndJesus replies back to John and
Mary, and he says, There is nosuch thing as sin. And so if
that's true, then why wouldJesus die for something he
didn't believe in? So then youhave to say, well, what would
sin be? And my interpretation ofsin is anything that teaches

(56:57):
that you are less than and notenough. So anything that
promotes or promulgates personalshame, is sin. And that's,
that's because I think that atthe core misses the mark of your
entire human experience. Yeah. Ialso take that definition. And I

(57:24):
derive the that interpretationfrom Matthew chapter five, verse
48, which is Jesus at the Sermonon the Mount. And he's gone
through the Beatitudes, and thenhe's saying, Okay, now that your
understanding kind of like, whatthis, what the results of
embodying your inner Christlooks like, and how that's going
to show up in your life. Now,I'm going to teach you some more

(57:46):
things. But before I can teachyou more things, I gotta teach
you this one critical thing, bewhole, even as your heavenly
parents are whole. And so Ithink from there, what he's
really saying is, there'snothing that you can do, to take
away from the fact that you area God here, having a human

(58:09):
experience. And you've done somethings that maybe you are not
pleased with, or you don't alignwith any more, and you're
beating yourself up with them.
And so the beating yourself upand the ability to not forgive
yourself is what's keeping youfrom tapping into the full
potential of your light, and whoyou really are. And so he's

(58:31):
saying, don't do that, right, beown your wholeness, realize that
you are complete, lacking noparts. That's the Greek version
of what he says in Matthew 548.
So that also implies thatthere's no such thing as a sin.
If sin is defined as somethingthat shames you for not being

(58:54):
enough, yeah. Now doesn't meanthere aren't transgressions and
doesn't mean that there aren'tthings that really hurt people.
And that reconciliation needs tobe made. Those things obviously
really do exist. And you do haveto reconcile with yourself when
you've been abandoning yourselfand abusing yourself and

(59:14):
betraying yourself and rejectingyourself. And when you do that,
you will end up in relationshipsthat will abandon you reject you
abuse, you betray you. So thatjust becomes a mirror of how you
treat yourself is how otherpeople will then treat you Even
Steven Covey talked about this.
And, and so you've got toreconcile, and that's what the

(59:34):
Greek word for atonementactually means. It's
reconciliation. So Paul's sayinglike Jesus had died, and then we
can have reconciliation. So thequestion then becomes, well,
what is real reconciliation? Andreconciliation is that I have

(59:57):
flaws. And I can reconcile themto reconcile means to be, so I
have flaws, and I can be withthem without shaming myself, or
it means to be friendly again.
So I was kind of an enemy tomyself. And the way that I

(01:00:20):
treated myself was pretty,pretty shitty. And now I've
reconciled with my past. AndI've reconciled with the amount
of awareness that I had when Idid the things that I am kind of
ashamed and embarrassed of. I'vereconciled that. And I'm now
friends with myself again. Andthen if you say, from that
perspective, you could say, oh,well, now we could break down

(01:00:42):
the word atonement at one meant,and meant means mind. And so now
that I've reconciled, and I'mfriends, with myself, again, I
am at one with myself, in my ownmind. And if I can get to that
state, then I can be at one withyou, regardless of the state
that you're in.

(01:01:02):
So is it possible then, becausein my experience, some of the
hardest places that I have everbeen have created the most
opportunity for light, eventhough they have been the most
painful, whether it wassomething I created or something
that was done to me? And thencould it be possible then that
Jesus and the bleeding of everypore, was him actually going

(01:01:26):
into every part of him thatasked for reconciliation? of the
self?
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's whatI think was actually happening.
And what is the thing thatactually that I actually need to
do I need to do that. And so howdoes Christ become my teacher?
Or my mentor? Or not Christ? Buthow does Jesus become my teacher

(01:01:48):
or my mentor, because Jesus andChrist are not, they're not
synonymous. Even though heembodies the Christ, I think
it's just important to be reallyclear in the communication,
like, what is Jesus actuallydoing, he's actually doing that
which I need to go do. But hedid it for himself showing that
it is possible so that I couldmaybe follow down that way, and

(01:02:09):
go do that myself. And thenrealize my own Christ within me,
my own inner Christ. This isalso I mean, this really implies
a lot of things. And I've had towrestle with this for a long
time. Isaiah says, when, whenJesus is going to be born, and

(01:02:33):
really the way that he's sayingit is when this person who's
going to be born, who embodiesthe inner Christ, so deeply and
so completely, when he's born,he's going to be abandoned,
abused, betrayed and rejected.
But then when you get into likehealing traumas, and why, why
you keep getting intorelationships that you feel

(01:02:55):
abandoned, abused, betrayed. Andall of a sudden, you realize,
well, I'm the co creator ofthese patterns that keep showing
up in my life, and I'm not avictim to them. So when they
these types of relationships ofabandonment, and abuse, and
betrayal and rejection continueto show up, it's because you,
you don't think you have a rolein that, that that relationship,

(01:03:16):
you don't get, you feel likeyou're a victim and you got
screwed over. Well, then theykeep showing up these types of
relationships. So for Jesus tobe an adult, and to be
abandoned, abused, betrayed. Andrejected means that that is just
a mere to the relationship hewas having first with himself.

(01:03:37):
It implies that he wasstruggling with self
abandonment, self rejection,self abusing, self betraying,
and no one ever looks at that,because you know, he's got to be
flawless, which, which I justdon't, I don't buy into that.
I've never been to that. I can'tbuy into that narrative. If he's
flawless, well, then he can'trelate to me, or I can't relate

(01:04:00):
to him either way. And so what Ithink is happening in the Garden
of Gethsemane is Jesus is cominginto that final depths of, of
embodying and making peace withhimself. And
on asking those deep questionsof the self, to what you're

(01:04:23):
saying, if he continues to pullin people that are abusive,
where am I abusing myself? Yeah,and those are some of the
hardest questions, especiallywhen we have been a victim to
different circumstances in ourlife, different partnerships.
We'll just talk about that.
Different partners that weattract that are abusive, and
that is a real thing thathappens to people. But then to
turn that around and askyourself, ask myself, Where am I

(01:04:46):
abusing myself? It is one of thehardest things to sit with. How
am I creating this?
Yeah, this this is Jacob'sRussell. If you remember, in the
Old Testament, Jacob iswrestling with God. And then he

(01:05:06):
gets his hip dislocated. Andafter Jacob's wrestle with God,
he makes peace with God. Andthen he gets a new name, and the
new name is Israel. So Jacob'sname becomes Israel. And the
word Israel means, like he whowrestles with God, or those who

(01:05:27):
wrestle with God. So when youhave the house of Israel, or the
people of Israel, what it'sreally saying is the people who
wrestle with themselves in intheir wounds and why they're
self abandoning, and what theirrole was, this is what God's
people actually do. Becausethey're wrestling with the God
within themselves and the devilwithin themselves. And and I

(01:05:52):
think the story is metaphorical.
I don't think literally a Godcomes down in wrestles with a
human because clearly, if Godsare so powerful, that's not even
a match. He's just gonna withus, and it's no wonder he
dislocated his hip. Right? It'slike he should have done worse
than that. And so maybe gods isnot a good wrestler. I don't
know, maybe Jacob is like supergood at wrestling. But when you

(01:06:14):
break it down, metaphorically,if, if Jacob all of a sudden is
coming to a chapter in his life,where he's like, Oh, my gosh,
I'm the light of the world to ohmy gosh, there's no such thing
as as a sin that makes me notenough. And just into shame
myself into debase myself,that's not a thing. He's going

(01:06:36):
to wrestle with himself, sogreatly to your point, it's such
a painful thing to face and feelthat it will feel like your hip
is, is being dislocated, whichis your most fortified joint in
the body, right? It's your mostpowerful, everything happens

(01:06:57):
from the hips, and, and so it'sjust saying, that's how
difficult that wrestle is goingto be. And, and Christ had the
wrestle too. And I think it's, Ithink it's difficult. At least
it's been that difficult for me,there's times that I like, tap
out. I just like, I just hittimeout, like, No, I can't

(01:07:19):
wrestle with this anymore. I'mgood with my shit. It's easier
for right now. Because we'rehuman. And we get to do that.
It's like, everything's achoice. Today, I'm choosing to
be human and wallow in mymisery, and be here and do
whatever the hell I want. Andthen tomorrow, maybe I'll look
at it. We do, we often forgetthat we are human to have a

(01:07:42):
human experience. There's areason we chosen with this
physical body. There's, I mean,that's a whole other podcast.
But yeah, we do get to giveourselves grace and permission
to move at our own pace andrecognize that we do have choice
in all things. And so one day,you may feel like you're getting
all this information, and it'sbeautiful and lovely. And the
next day, you may, you may feellike shit, and are done. And

(01:08:06):
you're done with this life.
Yeah, it's true. It's like howdid I end up in this crappy
relationship that abandoned me,I feel abandoned, or I feel
abused? Well, either you're avictim or you're a co creator.
And if you're a co creator,well, then you have to realize
that you chose into thosepatterns that you chose into
those beliefs of shame basedbeliefs about you. And they may

(01:08:27):
have been so programmed you werenot even fully aware that you
were choosing into it, but youstill, you still chose into it.
It's still you. And that'sreally, really hard, like the
most hard moment for me torealize is like, Oh, this is all
showing up. And it's so muchpain, and I've got so much

(01:08:51):
conflict with it. It's creatingsuffering in me. And it's
because I'm choosing it. Yeah.
And there was a time that if youwould have said that to Hue four
or five years ago, I would havebeen like, What the hell are you
talking about? You are retarded.

(01:09:12):
I just wouldn't have evenunderstood what was being said.
And I think that's part of theawakening process is coming to
them.
One step at a time. Yeah, thankgoodness. So we don't blow our
circuits. Yeah. Oh, well, Iwould love to have you back on
so we'll have to talk aboutwe'll have to talk about that

(01:09:33):
some more. But you have startedto tick tock channel.
Yes, yes, I metI'm going and this is just
starting so if you're listeninggo follow you. What is the name?
What is your name on tick tock?
Um,well, the name on it is you can
change your name and right nowthe name on it is cowboy Jesus.

(01:09:53):
Oh, good. So you did do that? Ilove it. Yeah. Because that's
what everyone's As because IDeke out and, you know, you
provide this beautiful platformfor me to, like, express these
things where I don't really getto express in my height and
notebooks and, you know, and,and, but then when I go out on
the adventure rides, and we doour retreats, and we do all this

(01:10:14):
stuff, this stuff naturallycomes out. And a lot of people
really resonate with it. So thenthey say, Well, where can I get
more of it, and I don't have aplace to put it. So I decided I
would put these types ofthoughts on tick tock, and
everyone refers to when I, theyjust call me cowboy Jesus, which
is embarrassing, but it is notembarrassing.

(01:10:36):
I love it. I think it's going tototally take off. So I'm going
to make sure to put it in theshow notes. Do you have any
retreats coming up?
We do. We have one coming up inmiddle of August, from the 11th
to the 14th. That's a Thursdayto Sunday. And then I've got an
event called 100 women,basically to teach sovereign

(01:11:01):
wholeness. And what that reallyis, so that they can have the
sovereign healthy partnerships.
And that's in September, andthen we have retreats in
October, as well.
Awesome. I'll make sure to putall these I'll link them in the
show notes so people can go, gosnag it and go follow you on Tik

(01:11:24):
Tok and,yeah, and Mustang medicine.
events.com. Perfect is where youcan see the whole schedule of
what's coming up.
Awesome, awesome. Thanks, you. Ialways love our conversation. So
thank you for saying yes tobeing not just having a
conversation with me, but toeverybody. Yeah. All right,

(01:11:46):
well, I'll make sure to put thatin the show notes. Make sure and
go follow you. Thank you, Dave.
Thank you. I'm hoping that I cantalk you into being on the
podcast fairly regularly. And II'm betting he will. And it's
always so fascinating havingthese conversations, and I'm
sure that you enjoyed it aswell. In fact, if you are
enjoying this podcast, pleasehead over to Apple and leave me

(01:12:07):
a five star review. That wouldhelp me so much to just get this
out there. And I'm seeing moreby others who are really needing
that place of just feeling likethey can be held and have some
of these thoughts that arediscussed and, and tools to
really utilize in our lives. Andas he mentioned, we I will post
it in the show notes below. Butyou can have head over to his

(01:12:29):
website, Mustang medicine.comFord slash events, I believe was
a link, I'll share it downbelow, and then go follow him on
his Twitter account at cowboyJesus to see what he's going to
start sharing there, I'm reallyexcited to see how he grows that
account. This will be super fun.
And then again, just a reminder,if you are looking for more

(01:12:50):
tools, I have created thisreally beautiful meditation
guided meditation journey seriesthat will assist you in
unwinding. So as we're talkingabout these programs, through
this, this episode, and talkingabout those places that we get
to identify, hey, this isactually an old old program that
I'm holding on to this guy tothese guided meditations that I
created are wholly there. Thewhole reason why I created it

(01:13:14):
was to assist you in unwindingthose parts within you. So if
it's of interest to you headover, head over to my website,
Amanda joy loveland.com forwardslash leaving religion tools,
that is Amanda joy loveland.comforward slash leaving religion
tools. And then again, if youare feeling the call to step

(01:13:35):
into a beautiful experience,come join us for the embody
experience September 22 through25th. Not only will we be having
different experiences, learningdifferent tools, you'll have
somatic experiences to wherewhen you walk out you are
changed, and you have moreaccess to the embodiment of all
that you are. But we will alsobe sending you home with a 21 to

(01:13:59):
28 day after care kind ofprogram to where you can do this
on your own time. You can goit's different practices and
different tools to reallycontinue the embodiment piece
because often we go into theretreat spaces, and we go home
and it's kind of a now what Ihad all this amazing experience
these things that I've learned,but I don't know how to
integrate it into my daily life.
We have tools that will assistyou in embodying it after this

(01:14:22):
experience together. Not onlythat, but we will be spending
three weeks together on Zoomcalls, three different zoom
calls to also continue to helpyou in your embodiment. So head
over to my website, Amandaloveland.com, forward slash
inbody I Nbody and secure yourspot today. And as always

(01:14:43):
sending you so much love andyour journey today. Give
yourself grace and have thecourage to continue to lean into
those places within you that areasking to be seen. You are not
alone my friend and we are allin this together. So I hope
today in this moment Right now,smile, smile for three seconds,
five seconds and acknowledge thebeauty that you are and the

(01:15:06):
light as you shared the lightthat you are sending you all so
much