March 23, 2025 • 43 mins
The profound impact of policy decisions on veteran lives takes center stage in this urgent discussion about the challenges facing the military community. What began as an Empty Seat Town Hall event has revealed the depth and breadth of concerns affecting veterans across Colorado Springs and beyond.
When over 100 people stand up to share their stories, and each one brings a different concern to the table, it signals something extraordinary is happening. From the PFAS water contamination affecting military families near Fort Carson to the looming economic recession that threatens veterans who purchased homes based on the stability of government positions, the problems are diverse yet universally devastating.
Perhaps most heartbreaking is the discussion around veteran suicide and the VA's "misconduct clause" which can deny benefits to surviving family members when a veteran dies by suicide. This policy creates a cruel double trauma—families lose their loved one and then face financial ruin as benefits are stripped away. As one participant pointedly remarks, "We're pulling the cracks open with forklifts," highlighting how current policies aren't merely allowing veterans to fall through cracks but actively creating dangerous situations.
The conversation takes several unexpected turns, including a candid discussion about political engagement across the spectrum. When an independent voter speaks up at the predominantly progressive event, he's met with respect—a reminder that the issues facing veterans transcend political identity. Whether discussing Steve Bannon's influence or the critical importance of local elections, the hosts emphasize that veterans must engage at every level of governance to protect their hard-earned benefits.
For anyone concerned about veteran welfare or wondering how policy decisions affect real lives, this episode offers a sobering yet motivating look at what's at stake. If you're a veteran with "gas left in the tank," consider running for office or supporting candidates who understand the unique challenges of military life. The time for action is now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Left Face.
This is the Pikes Peak RegionalPodcast, where we talk about
veterans issues and politics.
I am your co-host, dickWilkinson, and I'm joined again
today with Adam Gillard.
Good morning, adam.
Morning Dick.
How you doing, buddy?
I'm doing great, as usual.
I'm happy to be here and happyto talk about the.
You know, I think early on inthe show when I started working
(00:22):
with you about a year ago, a lotof our topics were national
level news things, electionthings and how it's going to
relate to veterans.
Sometimes we had to draw thatconnection.
But in the last few weeks we'vehad nothing but topics where
it's just 100% direct impact toveterans.
(00:42):
So you participated in an event.
I know Progressive Veteranshere was part of the sponsorship
of the event on Monday.
We talked about it last week onthe episode.
It was an empty seat town hall.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And that drew an interest from the veteran
community, from the workers'unions, labor unions that are
here and just general communitysupport.
Right, yeah, there wasdefinitely a heavy veteran
presence online and in person.
Just overall, the response wasoverwhelming.
Yeah, you said you maxed outthe seats.
Yeah, we maxed out the RSVPs.
All the seats were filled andpeople were standing there, so
it was a great showing up there.
We streamed it on YouTube andFacebook and that had around 500
(01:23):
streams each.
The last time I looked there.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And it's still on YouTube for anybody that wants
to go and watch it.
Post-event I watched itpost-event on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, so I tried to cut out the noise at the
beginning.
So it's still over two hours,but we had like 100 people stand
up and voice their opinion andspeak.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And it was moving too , Like it just tick, tick, tick.
It wasn't.
As these events can be, Someonegets up there, gets on a ramp
and just goes sideways andthey're like, you know, you're
like hey time, you're out oftime.
And they're like they justwon't shut up.
You can't play them off thestage.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, there was none of that, like the whole vibe of
the place was there was a strongenergy of just people wanting
to one be heard and do something.
You know, it was just aplatform for people to to be
able to stand up and voice theiropinions and listen to folks
too, because that goes a longway too.
Even if you just show up andlisten, you educate yourself,
and then you can take thoseconversations back out into your
(02:20):
community and keep spreadingthe message firsthand account,
righthand account, right, I meaneverything.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
There is somebody's first-hand account of how some
policy change that's happeningis impacting them.
Right, that's what everythingthere was, and so the value of
sitting and hearing thefirst-hand account of other
people that are either impactedby the same thing as you you
know, a VA reduction, you'reworried about that and you hear
somebody stand up and say youknow, this VA thing has really
got me worried, right, you go,all right then.
(02:46):
I'm not crazy, I should beconcerned, right?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I'm not making this up, you know, yeah, because I
mean so many times.
We get all of our informationfrom headlines but, like most of
us, don't even have theattention span to read the whole
article.
That's how I am we literallyeducate ourselves off of
headlines.
We literally educate ourselvesoff of headlines.
But when you hear thatfirst-person account and you can
actually just sit there andlisten to them and they dig in.
Yeah, and they have yourattention.
(03:10):
It means something.
I'm hoping it pays prettyimmediate dividends for us,
because one of the folks thatspoke was Liz Rosenbaum.
She was on our podcast when shewas running.
Yes, as a candidate, the moneythat she talked about on that
show, on that podcast when shewas running as a candidate?
Yeah, um, the money that shetalked about on that show, on
that podcast for the PFAScleanup and then investigation
into the different kind ofcontamination with the Trump
(03:33):
administration restrictions,that money's been pulled.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Oh yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, so that's terrible yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That community down there is going to keep getting.
It's just that the rug gotpulled out from underneath of
that whole thing.
Yeah, is going to keep gettingpoison water.
The rug got pulled out fromunderneath of that whole thing.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, so, uh, but fortunately, um, I was able
to uh have a town or a non-town,uh a round table with a Senator
Hickenlooper the next day and Ibrought it up to him and his
staff was very interested intrying to help out and get a
solution down there.
Um, because, that's a heavy,heavy veteran community.
That's Carson's backyard rightthere, so it's a heavy veteran
(04:06):
community, and just people ingeneral shouldn't be drinking
poisoned water.
It's a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, we've got some historical knowledge of why it's
not a good idea.
You know, I think so many timesin politics we see things that
are almost always like one layerremoved, right, and you say,
okay, well, that's impactingthese people.
I would I have to kind ofempathize with them because that
problem is not necessarilyimpacting me, right, and that's
(04:34):
how a lot of political news, forthe most part, that's how we
experience it, but this is.
I find that the event that youhad highlights that what is
happening in America right nowis different than that right
there.
I can't tell, I can't imagine acategory of people that are not
impacted by the every changethat's going on right now, like
(04:56):
because it's so far, reaching sodeep, reaching into government
in the government services,right.
So so these political stories,if you had 20 different people
get up, all of them might tellyou 20 different things that are
going on.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
That's what was really wild when I sat there and
listened to all those stories.
There wasn't a whole lot ofrepeats, there wasn't, I know,
yeah, the overlap wasn't?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
it wasn't just people standing up going VA.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
VA, va, that wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That's crazy.
I don't know what word to useto observe that, but and we're
still in the infancy of thiswhole chaos that's going to be
started, just getting started,yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
And so you know, that was the other thing that I
really brought up to SenatorHickenlooper was that with this,
you know, with our communitybeing, you know, 15% veterans
that's not counting spouses anddependents and things like that
these you know huge cuts to notjust the GS government positions
(05:55):
.
It's going to bring downgovernment contracts, things
like that, like everything'sgoing to shrink.
Yep, this community is going tobe absolutely decimated and
it's going to have like peopleare living high Localized
recession.
Right, right, and they're livinghigh on the hog right now and
there's it's going to drive upsuicide rates here.
Yeah, like it's not, it's not.
(06:17):
I mean, again, we have data onthese things where you know,
people lose jobs, loserelationships, get into high
crushing debt that they'vealready, these $700,000 houses
that are all around there'sgoing to be, why are you talking
about?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
my house.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
There's going to be a lot of pain coming towards our
community and we need to getsome guardrails on, because
people are really starting towake up to what's coming, you
know it's a little bit of adeparture, but it's worth
mentioning.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And I guess it's my own observation, maybe anecdotal
, but I feel like these types ofsituations that we're talking
about, where it's a financialoutcome or just the instability
piece of like, I thoughteverything was all good, I
thought I had everything kind oflocked into place.
I'm a veteran, I'm retired, I'myou know, and I've got my job
and I'm paying my mortgage andlike, insurance is right,
everything's on on the rightpage, and then that rug gets
(07:15):
pulled out.
I feel, like the veteranpopulation and that you know
this is anecdotal, but we're athigher risk for self-harm.
But we're at higher risk forself-harm, we already know that.
But there's the like, honor andpride aspect that I think we
(07:46):
put veterans.
A veteran that's facingforeclosure harms himself is
significantly higher than thechances of what we call, you
know, a non-veteran citizenfaces that same challenge.
The chances of them causing,you know that, causing self-harm
, I feel like, are just almostan order of magnitude less, you
know.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, and you know I can't speak to all branches um,
like basic training, but likeday one of Air Force basic
training, you learn that you arean American airman, you will
not falter, you will not fail.
Right On day two you learn thatyou're a failure and like it's
every day.
Like every day, like you're notgood enough.
(08:23):
You're, you're trying to dothings.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, breaking down to rebuild you, right, right,
but like, when you start havingthat water level, like that, it
leaves a stain, that stresslevel, yes, and that stress
level never goes away.
You know, once you leave workand once you retire, like it's
still there.
It is, you just don't know whyit's there anymore.
You know so and yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's a different way of referring to the same
thing I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And that's what drives people Like, once they
get to that spot where you knowI will not fail, but I'm clearly
a failure.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, this is an unacceptable level of what I
call failure.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right.
So, yeah, they make theultimate decision.
Yeah, and uh, you know, for usto be be stripping these
benefits that are earned bypeople that, like we were at war
for a long time, yes, peopledid a lot of things that they've
they've earned their benefitsFor sure.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Um, and we get caught up to in retiree versus a five
year service member?
Right yeah.
And like who earns and whodeserves what member?
Right yeah.
And like who earns and whodeserves what?
Right yeah, man, one tour in awar zone is a tour in a war zone
period right, it doesn't matteris uh one, uh one lady that
spoke at the town hall.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
She mentioned that how active duty is kind of left
beside.
You know, when we talk veterans, sure and like, I understand
that, but in my mind's eye I seelike active duty members as
like veterans in their pupastage.
They're just waiting to growout of their shell.
They'll get here.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But policy gets talked about with the VA and the
money on the veteran side ofthe house.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, they'll talk about active duty policy stuff
because that happens inside theDOD not so much on the public
stage, more on the private, likeinternal side of the dod, yeah,
but when it comes to like when,when we, these organizations
out there, like no veteranorganization turns away active
duty members um generally no,there's, that's not the case
unless there's some legalrequirement that's like, hey, we
(10:16):
can't do this for you, you haveto go to, you know, yeah, the
medical clinic on base.
Yeah, but like you know, vfAmerican Legion progressive vets
Support groups.
Like all these places.
When we fight for vets, we'refighting for active duty, oh for
sure.
So I just want to make surepeople understand when I say
vets, that's military writ largemy little active duty.
(10:39):
Pupa is there, I'm countingthem?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah for sure, oh absolutely.
Pupa is there.
Yeah, I'm counting them.
Yeah for sure, oh, absolutely.
Um, I mean just the the conceptaround, if we're making policy
changes that affect veterans.
Yes, you're right, absolutely.
All of those people willeventually benefit from whatever
policy change is happening nowyeah and if we can fold in their
experience as an active dutymember, then you know we'll.
We'll try to do that.
That reminds me of thelegislation stuff that I worked
(11:04):
on down in New Mexico, whereit's exactly that it was.
Some of the initiatives werepurely post service, you know
benefits and some of them wereactually focused only on active
duty military families that wererotating in and out of the
state.
Cause, from a state levelperspective, you want and now
with a federal funding stuff,the way it's going you can't
(11:27):
jockey for funds and makeyourself shiny and pretty the
way you used to at a state level.
But what used to happen is thatthe military is always putting
out information about, like baserealignment and closure.
There's always these analysisgoing on of what's the school
system like in this area, what'sthe cost of living in this area
?
What's the cost of living inthis area?
What's the availability ofsuitable housing for the right
(11:47):
pay grades?
Right, like those things areall getting analyzed all the
time, those levers are pulled atthe state and local government
level.
Right, if you want to improveyour attractiveness so that you
can keep space command here andnot in Alabama, well then, you
need to have better schools andan appropriate cost of living
and more access to active dutyprograms.
(12:10):
You make yourself attractive bysaying we help active duty
family members, the spouses thattransition into our state, we
license them immediately.
We don't make them go through ayear worth of relicensing.
We say you've got a year ofgrace period, please come to
work and we'll get you licensedin our state over the next year.
That is very attractive, right.
And now, if you're trying todecide, as a like we were
(12:32):
talking last week, if you're thethree-star, four-star looking
at your command, moving aroundsomewhere, that quality of life
stuff, the recruitment piece isimportant, and so that's the way
that a local community or astate can make themselves more
attractive in these decisions,right.
So active duty, lifestyle andquality of life is critical for
the people that understand it.
It's a way to compete, to keepthat DOD money in the door and
(12:55):
keep those resources flowing,and that only happens, you know,
in these kind of specialinterest lobbying movements,
right, where you go.
Just a very small percentage ofour population are active duty
people on basis, but theirfamilies have really unique
experiences that we need to.
We want to support them, right,and that's important.
And so, yes, you're absolutelyright.
(13:16):
The messaging of politicalmovement around veterans is, as
often as possible, includesactive duty people.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Yep.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Um, another thing, uh , from the town hall uh, that
came up with was there was oneindependent guy that came up and
talked, okay, and uh, yeah, Iwas.
I mean he, he knew what he wasgetting into, you know, cause he
came up and he said and he saidand he tried to say you know,
we need somebody in the middlethat can bring independence and
(13:46):
Republicans.
You know, republicans are goodpeople and they're just being
lied to and like, like, and Iunderstand that argument to a
point.
But you know, like, for a lieto be successful it takes two
people.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
It does the liar and the person and the believer and
the believer.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
at some point you have to hold people accountable
for still believing the bullshit.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And so, like we are, we are crossing some of those
lines now where hopefulness oflike, well, I think he's going
to do this and and then the badthing is not going to happen
yeah, it's happening.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
He's doing exactly everything that, yeah, he said
he was going to do, but so sothe guy still and he knew he was
going to kind of get a littleharassed for that, but he stood
up there and said it.
I was like man, good on you.
For that's the point of thesetown halls is not just to be an
echo chamber for far leftDemocrats to holler and scream
Get these people up there thathave a little bit different
opinion and people in the crowdgive them their time, Be
(14:39):
respectful.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So I thought that was really cool to actually see a
wider net than yeah, even ifit's just one, and of course,
there were other people in theroom that didn't speak that
would fall into that category.
There were other people thatwere definitely more independent
or were not affiliated voters.
There had to be.
So that's good.
I mean, again, like you said,that person as we talked about
(15:03):
in the past, they're going to goand they're going to talk about
their experience.
Right, they're going to go tellother people that are not maybe
very politically active.
That independent person isgoing to say I went to this
place and this is what happened.
That could lead to more interestand activity from that middle,
flexible voter base, the more wecan talk the future I see on
(15:24):
the news all the time.
Well, what's the future of thedemocratic party?
How are they going tore-establish a path forward?
And like they don't have anypower right now so they can't
chalk up any wins, and there'sall this, you know, talk about.
What's the consternation aboutthe future?
Right, if it was, it shouldhave always been and it will
continue to be that the, themiddle, has to be courted, right
, I mean, the.
(15:45):
The proof in the last electionwas that.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know, the middle was, was lost, you know but,
like in our area, the middledidn't even show up like 60
voted.
Well, there you go.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
They weren't courted right, the and the last
presidential level, they weren'tcourted well, they were courted
with the basically, you don'twant that evil thing.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, it's always the evil.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, it was, and that's not courting right.
That's like convincing you thatwhich foot do you need to shoot
off?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yes, chamber electric chair.
You're not courting anyone withthat.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, and so there wasn't any.
The message of hope wasexclusively for Democrats as far
as, like the presidential levelcampaign, the message for hope
was spoke to the Democratic base, and I don't think there was
much there that independent forindependence.
It was like hey, you know,don't worry about how good or
bad us as Democrats will be, youjust need to worry about how
bad Donald Trump will be.
(16:41):
Need to worry about how badDonald Trump will be.
That was kind of the democraticmessage.
To court the middle ground wasto scare people away from Trump,
and it wasn't.
You know, flies are attractedto honey, so let's pour honey
all over our platform, right,and let's make these middle
people believe that the left orthat the democratic agenda
serves them as well.
We said, actually, we kind ofdon't serve you, you're doing
(17:04):
your own thing, and we're overhere fighting for these minority
groups or these specialinterest groups or these other
groups that you don't fall into,and that's still what we're
going to keep doing, but wewould love your help.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
You know, it's like.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of labor folks that they just felt
like they were been forgottenfor 10, 15 years.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So the courting didn't happen in my mind, right,
and so the way to move forwardis to court, and having one
independent voter show up to anevent like that is great.
I don't know how you.
I mean, it comes down to thelanguage of describing the event
you know and and where you holdit, right.
I mean, yeah, those kind ofthings, right?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I don't know I don't have a solution.
Well, and trying to market.
You know like all my networksare gonna obviously lean one way
, sure you know.
So trying to get the word outand market to people.
That you know just kind ofbecause a lot of people are
upset that we don't have arepresentative.
That's gonna that's havingin-person town halls.
You know, like it's part of thegig.
Man, like, yeah, you knowwhether you're he's trying to
(18:01):
fight to install a monarchy ortrying to fight for democracy.
This is part of the gig.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, like people stand up and get their ass
chewed well, and I and I sentyou that one thing and it's in
between these last two episodes,but I sent it was a video of a
guy, um, a representative, thatwas getting getting raked over
the coals.
He said now you see why peopledon't want to come and have
these town halls, right, and itwas like you, dude like what,
what you know yeah.
(18:29):
And talking about being it wasthe, it's the like I don't know
man.
That mentality is basically I'mthe school principal.
You all are just a bunch ofmisbehaving little kids in a
classroom and I'm here to tellyou how to act and if you don't
listen to me, you're going toget whooped.
Right Like that's what he saidto them.
Right Like you grown-up votersthat really do matter in my
(18:50):
future of my work.
You guys need to shut up andcolor right.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And what frustrates me is you never get good, clean
answers from them on anything.
No, you know and I learned inmy leadership trainings and the
ethical training classes that wego through that if you can't
tell your kids, if you can'ttell your grandparents what
you're doing, it's not ethical.
You're in the wrong lane.
You should not be fucking doingthat.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yes, absolutely and you're absolutely right.
Yes, absolutely and you'reabsolutely right.
I mean, in the uh, just when,when there are times and I'll
say this there in not thecurrent era, but in the past
there's always somebody who'sgoing to show up to something.
They're going to put out sometype of topic.
It's usually a very weird, umfringe topic.
(19:34):
They'll bring it to thatpolitician and they'll say you
know, um, just, you know, kindof, like I say, weird fringe
topic thing.
But it's a small group of peopleand they're in some place and
they're like hey, if we don'tget um new stripes painted on
this road out here, we're goingto have three traffic fatalities
next year.
And they get in there and theyjust want to own the you know
(19:55):
the whole topic with somespecial little thing like that
Um, own the.
You know the whole topic withsome special little thing like
that Um, that's not what's goingon in any of these places right
now.
It's not weird fringe peoplecoming and making a point and
putting on a stunt, right, it'snot that at all.
It's genuine people talkingabout very broad reaching issues
.
And the the Republicanpoliticians, are just 100
(20:18):
percent empty handed right now.
Right, they're just sayinglisten.
If you don't lick Trump's boot,you won't understand.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And I hear a person who has never licked this boot
before.
So you're just not going to getit.
You're welcome to leave theroom now, right, and I'm like
damn, I just can't believe the.
It's so in your face.
It is so blatant of like thereis no answer.
We're just in lockstep withwhatever this dude thinks he's
doing.
We as a co-equal branch ofgovernment are not going to do
(20:52):
anything and stop asking.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
That's what they're saying.
That basically means you'regiving away your power.
They are, you know, they arethe power of the purse, the
power to you know actuallylegislate.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And to complain about hearing your constituents tell
you about real problems, right,that's its own form of giving up
your power, right.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, because that's always the two biggest things
when they talk about what we doas legislators.
You know what we do aslegislators.
The biggest thing that we do isconstituent services and we
answer phone calls and we takecare of you guys.
Horseshit, here we are.
People are now not gettingresponses.
It's just sad.
The event itself was phenomenal.
Luce got a hold of me a weekbefore that whole thing went.
(21:39):
I took about 10 days and thatthing was set up, um and uh,
yeah uh.
Deanna is another big helper.
Colleen, like the other four ofus, just kind of did that in a
week.
So thank you to all of themthat helped out.
That's excellent.
Everybody that showed up, setup chairs Awesome, Appreciate
everybody Uh you.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I did hear that MSNBC gave a little shout-out a
little run.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, they really appreciated it was the Rachel
Maddow show.
She really appreciated the minicrank head on the Folgers can.
Oh, yeah, yeah, she made acomment about that, but yeah, it
was just like a segment wherethey go around the country and
show different protests around.
Yeah, yeah, and we made that.
So that was pretty cool,definitely more coverage than
(22:24):
we're used to getting aroundthis area, for sure.
One person even talked aboutthe whole Steve Bannon thing.
Have you been following that atall?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Oh, that he was going to be at Antlers, yeah, and
then it got canceled, okay.
But see, they did a Trump rallylate last year and we're all
about it, right.
They were like come on and getyour Trump on down here at
Adler's.
Trump's a little different thanSteve Bannon.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Steve Bannon's a little bit further right,
because the whole Z-Hail thatCPAC, Well yeah.
So when you sign Steve Bannon,you're making a deliberate
statement.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, I didn't think they cared.
No, they don't they don't?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So Phil Long Music Hall is now hosting it.
The old Boot Barn, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So yeah, I'll definitely not be going to any
shows at.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Boot Barn or to that music hall.
Yeah, I don't buy new carsanyway, so I can't boycott his
cars Sure sure.
But yeah, if you're a companythat brings in somebody that
just spews hate like that, it'sgoing to bring a lot of the
white supremacists out in thisarea.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
We have some up in the North.
It will be that kind of rally.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
So it's good, it's going to be gross up there, yeah
.
So I hope folks just stay awayfrom it and just don't give it
attention, because if you gothere to protest you're going to
A counter protestprotest typesituation.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, there will be somebody out there who does that
.
Oh, there sure will be, becauseanywhere Steve Bannon goes,
somebody sets up acounter-protest right, yeah.
Which is good, because dudeshouldn't be?
I mean, everyone has a right tofree speech, but the people who
don't agree with them have theright to come and say they don't
agree with them.
Right, we need to do that, yeah, yeah, you know, just real
quick, side, little side, jauntSteve Bannon.
(23:59):
Right, we've always known thathe's a puppet master to some
degree, right, yeah, and he'smaintained somehow.
That's the strange thing.
How many people in Trump'sorbit have that kind of staying
power?
Bannon's been around the wholetime, man, since day one.
Yeah, he's like the only one.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Even.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Giuliani has been gone for years.
At this point you would havethought giuliani would have been
that like stick of thieves kindof guy.
But bannon, is that guy, right?
Yeah, and so I think is hestill useful?
That's he is, and um, but youknow he can survive talking.
Uh, smack about elon, right,like he's out here throwing
rocks at elon like this dude'sdumb.
(24:37):
He's not an american.
I don't know why everybodythinks he's so cool.
Well, steve doesn't like that,because Elon's taking his job.
Right, I mean he's the numberone ear bender.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
That was.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Steve's job was to ear bend Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And now he's on the other shoulder Both devils.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Bannon had an office in the West Wing that he called
his own little war room, andthen when he left the White
House he went and set it up downin Texas, wherever the hell he
is now, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
He doesn't like the competition for the number one
earbender, so here's but I meanmy little jaunt is, steve Bannon
has been kind of like Project2025.
He's always had this sort ofover long reaching agenda of
certain things he wanted toachieve.
Right, european control and thedissolution of like power in
(25:33):
Europe that could be replacedwith right wing ideology in
Europe.
Right, because Europe as weknow Americans, we see Europe as
generally further to the leftoverall from a social
perspective.
That's been the movement inEurope since World War II really
is a lot of social effort Evenbefore that no-transcript it was
(25:59):
based on european influence andthey had it for like 20 years,
sure, sure.
So there you go right, there's,there's always been a uh, it's
the, you know, the birth of alot of liberal ideas and
liberalism is is out of europe,right?
Well, steve bannon apparently,you know, has had a fairly long
and detailed plan of how todeconstruct liberalism in Europe
(26:20):
and, just like, instead ofProject 2025 is the American
extension of that.
But the plan to destabilizeEurope and replace all the
leaders there with people likeOrban and the labor, remove the
labor parties and instill theright wing, you know,
(26:40):
conservative parties in Germanyand in the UK and those kinds of
places.
That's been a overt, not aconspiracy.
It's been an overt kind ofcampaign, secret, little back
campaign thing that's been goingon in Bannon's world the whole
time.
I did not realize that.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
And what blows me away is that this, like
deliberate attack on liberalism,is a deliberate attack on, like
, the founding principles of ournation.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But he sells it as patriotic to hate liberalism,
yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
There's one brand and flavor of liberal you know of
of patriotism that counts right.
There's one brand and flavor ofyou know of of patriotism that
counts right.
There's one brand and flavor ofof american flag waving that
counts.
And if you do it in any otherway, yeah, even if you are, are
truly a patriot and really docare, if you don't do it in in
the way that he thinks it shouldbe done, you're, you're just,
(27:36):
you're an outsider, you're theenemy, you're a terrorist.
I just didn't realize how muchkind of finger in the pie Steve
Bannon has had as far as, likedeconstructing NATO and
convincing Trump that NATO isjust the worst thing in the
world.
Right, like that.
Is that?
(27:56):
That is purely Bannon's likebrainchild to do that and to
keep that kind of focus?
Well, steve Bannon may have hisyou know druthers over Europe,
but we're going to shift topics.
What?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
is druthers.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Druthers, you know he has these ideas and choices and
you know he wants to.
He has these certain ways.
He wants things to be when doesthat?
Word come from.
I've never heard that.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You've never heard that, druthers.
I'm a fairly well-educatedperson.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I have my druthers about that Interesting.
Yeah, it's like thoughts, maybereservations, maybe you know, I
have my own ideas you knowInteresting?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, all right, I'll have to slip that in.
Well, there you go.
Now you have a new word.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Um, he has that about Europe but we have a much more,
uh, much more serious topic.
That unfortunately is.
It comes close to home.
Um, I've known people that have, that have been impacted by
this same set of circumstances.
Um, we're going to talk aboutveteran suicide for a moment,
and not just veteran suicide,but the what's left behind for
(28:58):
families and people that areconnected to this tragic event
to have to deal with Um and theprevailing understanding that,
you know, there's somemisunderstandings about what
happens when these things happen.
On the active duty side of thehouse, it almost doesn't matter
how you perish.
If you're a service member, thebenefits of life insurance and
(29:20):
a death financial disbursementare issued to your family with
very little question or scrutiny.
It just kind of doesn't matterwhat happened.
Right, whether you die incombat, whether you die by
suicide or you just slip off aladder, it doesn't matter.
For veterans and for peopleunder the VA side of the house,
the VA healthcare system, andthat are relying on benefits
(29:42):
that are from the VA andgovernment perspective, versus
the active duty and DODperspective, the conversation is
a lot different and there'sbeen a news article this week in
CNN some news coverage, Ishould say about the follow-on
effects of when veterans taketheir lives and they're on the
VA system, there's a lot ofcomplications for their family
(30:03):
to pursue those benefits thatthey're owed.
So, adam, do you have?
You know?
I know we've both got someexperiences with this, but
what's the?
What's the kind of recentmovement on this topic that
you're aware of?
Um?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
so the uh, the benefit that you're talking
about is the dependency andindemnity compensation DIC.
Um, that that's the one that uhgives money to your dependents
after you pass, so that, ifyou're a disabled veteran, that
if you're a disabled veteran, ifyou're a disabled veteran and,
like you know, the soul winner,the breadwinner and things like
(30:36):
that they lose, that it givesthem a little something to get
back on their, you know, getlife started again.
Right To.
Maybe you know, if you're, say,a child whose parent committed
suicide, you get to go totherapy in high school versus
having to get a job.
You know, if you're, say, achild whose parent committed
suicide, you get to go totherapy in high school versus
having to get a job.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know things like that.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
They're not living high on the hog.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, we're not handing people keys to a new
fight and prove things, becausethis benefit if it's a death or
just or.
I'm gonna read just how it saysum, if a veteran's death or
disability is determined to bethe result of their own willful
misconduct, their survivingfamily or veteran themselves may
not be eligible for dic orother va benefits.
(31:26):
So this misconduct clausethat's inside of our VA
structure here says that ifyou're suicide is obviously
veteran misconduct.
If you're speeding in traffic,if you're A DUI, yeah, drunk
rock climbing, that's on you,yeah, like that's on you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah, you're taking a really high risk situation,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And you pass.
They cut your benefits off andnow your spouse that was relying
on you for everything.
Not only do they lose theirspouse or their mother, or
father now they have to worryabout bills and it just
compounds on each other A lot ofthese vets that make this
(32:16):
ultimate decision.
They have the thought processthat people are better off and
this is easier, and these arethe long-term ramifications that
you know.
One, I don't think it weighsinto their factors at all yeah,
that's what we agreed on, thatyeah but these are those
secondary third effects thatpeople don't understand and like
(32:39):
it's going to have a rippleeffect in this community because
this community is going to getreally hit hard with this.
Um, you know, yeah, we made thestatement earlier.
I hate to beat the dead horsehere, but the dod is like
pulling the Um, you know?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
yeah, we made the statement earlier.
I hate to beat the dead horsehere, but the DOD is like
pulling the cracks open.
You know we worry aboutveterans slipping through the
cracks and that's usually thestory you hear.
When someone you know takestheir life outside of the VA,
they go oh, this guy slippedthrough the cracks, this guy or
gal, we're pulling the cracksopen with forklifts right now.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
You know people Sparta, kicking them down into
the gap going.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
We don't care about you, Right, and?
And there's, there's, you know,just right, here in El Paso
County there's a hundred peoplethat have lost their jobs, that
don't know the way forward.
They are hearing headlinesabout how the VA is going to
turn off certain benefits.
They're getting emails from theVA in their own inbox saying
this thing we were going to do,we're not doing it anymore.
Right, and that's scary, right.
(33:28):
You know the resource that you,as an active duty person, you
know you've got this safety netunderneath of you and you've got
layers and layers and layers oflike things that are going to
fall out of the sky to help youdeal with problems.
Right, Then, once you get onthe other side of that and
you're a veteran, a lot of thoselayers disappear and you may.
Maybe the VA is the only safetynet you feel like you have.
And now you're gettingheadlines and emails and text
(33:51):
messages and phone calls sayingwe at the VA care about you, but
we're not going to do thisprogram anymore.
Right, and you're saying that'sthe only safety net I have.
And now I just lost my job andI don't have health care
benefits that I had for my job.
I don't have those anymore, andnow I'm concerned that the VA
is not going to do their partfor me and my family.
(34:11):
Yeah, people are going tosuffer from that and there's
going to be people that hurtthemselves.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, and so the family members that are left
behind suffer, and this isactually something that the
progressive vets have beenworking for a long time.
The previous chair, kent Jarnaghe actually worked with Senator
Bennett and SenatorHickenlooper's offices and got
them to sign letters kind ofexplain this.
This was a few years ago andthey sent it to the VA secretary
(34:36):
at the time and the VA'sresponse was yeah, we don't
support suicide.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
No, kidding, nobody is Nobody supports suicide, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
But they did not address the issue.
And here we're now again, andthis guy that did the article
Kent's been working with him fora few years now, and so Kent
tipped me off to the articlebeing dropped.
So I could tell SenatorHickenlooper.
But you know this guy, jeffWinters.
His article's on CNN right now.
It might have been picked up byJake Tapper and things like
(35:07):
that, but it's out there andit's starting to get traction
and people need to be aware thatthese types of laws are.
Not only are we having thingspulled away from us, but we
still need to fight for thingsthat we should have had.
In the beginning.
We weren't done fighting forall the benefits that we've
earned to begin with, and nowthings are pulling back.
We can't forget about theseother fights.
(35:27):
Sure, we need to keep, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Don't, don't.
The shiny ball right, which isdistraction, is part of the plan
right For our, for the currentadministration distraction and
too many moving parts, so younever know what's doing what.
That's part of the plan, right,you know.
So, yeah, you're absolutelyright.
If we lose visibility on thingslike this that have been in our
(35:50):
lives and in our communitiesfor years, because we get
distracted by some headlineabout Pete Hegseth, Well, that's
disservice to all of us.
Right?
We need to know what's going onand not lose sight of these
issues, Because what we'retalking about here is a spouse,
male or female, doesn't matterthe family that's left behind
when a service member hurtsthemselves and, as Adam and I
mentioned earlier, you know theidea that policy that government
(36:14):
leaders believe policy impactsthe decision of a service member
to take their own life or not.
Right, that's almost certainlynot the case.
Right, Just the same.
As you know, I don't want tocompare them, but when someone's
out committing a crime, inoften cases they're not thinking
about the consequence, right?
They don't think.
Man, I sure hope I don't go tojail for 10 years right, that's
(36:35):
just not in their mind.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
you know I haven't checked the updated statutes yet
.
Yeah, let me see Is the deathpenalty worthy or not.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I'm not sure, right, but I'll take it just to this
line and then I'll stop before Iget to the death penalty line,
right?
No, and so that same.
You know, we can't afford theclear-headed mentality to
anybody who's in a position ofmental health concern to say
well, you knew the rules right.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
You read all the VA regulations before you took all
that.
You signed this piece of paper.
Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous.
I mean I think most people thatare probably listening to this
have had those dark clouds.
Well, if you hurt yourself,your family won't get anything.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
That's not having the effect that we hope it has at
all, right, and so it's nothelping anyone, right?
So if we're looking at policiesthat don't help people, maybe
(37:37):
we need to either change thepolicy or just get rid of that
whole line in the book, right?
Just delete that line, you know.
Get rid of the misconductclause, because it's not very
realistic to the outcomes ofwhat service members and
veterans are experiencing andthat's what I recommended to
Senator Hickenlooper.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I'm sure it bounced off the wall on that one.
But because, even if you know,we talked a little bit too about
the if the service member wasjust a dirtbag and just doesn't
like, the service member himselfdoesn't deserve benefits.
You know, if they do someviolent crime, some horrific
crime against children maybethey don't, but then in the
process they kill themselvesyou're going to take the money
(38:14):
away from the victims of hiscrimes.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Right.
That person didn't ask for thispenalty, right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You're punishing the victims of this horrific
situation and if there's somecrazy CSI SVU episode that comes
out of something and it's justsome weird twists and turns,
cool, we'll look into it.
We'll figure out that fraudRight.
But we can't assume thateverybody out there is trying to
defraud the government,especially victims of suicide.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, that's the blanket approach is the problem
right now, and the blanketshould basically just be turned
in the total opposite direction.
Right, you know, of like, let'sassume this is real and valid
and you need this help, and thenif there's some just something
totally fishy and obviouslywrong, we'll investigate.
But we're going to start withthe assumption that this is a
real claim, you really need thishelp, and that there's not.
(39:03):
There's nothing fishy going onhere, right, People don't show
up asking for you know, it's notthe same as buying a life
insurance policy and thenmurdering your spouse that CSI
episode and that's a real thing,and you know we understand why
that happens.
This is not that, you know thisis just not that.
And so putting it into thatcategory, treating it like any
(39:24):
other type of life insurancesituation, is really a
misjudgment of the wholesituation from a government
policymaker or from someonewho's trying to impact the
problem to go well.
Just just like life insurance,you don't want to give people
the incentive to die.
That's just not what we'redealing with here, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
So yeah, oh man, yeah , yeah, it's just crazy and,
like we said, in the veterancommunity we have a higher risk
of suicide.
So, you know, if you'relistening and us talking about,
this made you think aboutsomebody reach out to them.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
You're aware that the government does not always have
your back, your family, youknow.
If you have the clear head tohear this message now and
understand what impacts it couldhave on your family, you know,
ask for help now.
Don't wait and don't let thesetypes of things if anything,
(40:20):
they should motivate us to goout and do even more to protect
each other Right.
Like.
It's time to close ranks andhelp each other out.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Right, yeah, if you think of somebody who's at risk,
you call them, you reach out tothem.
There's a funny I can'tremember if it was somebody I
talked to, if it was a cartoon,but but if somebody like talking
to a therapist, and thetherapist asked if they had any
suicidal ideations and it was aveteran on the couch and he
responds you know, normal amount, yeah.
And the therapist is like, well, zero is the normal amount,
(40:48):
right.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Oh, not the normal amount then.
Yes, yeah, yeah, and I'vedefinitely had that conversation
.
I'm like it's about the same.
Yeah, okay, yeah, I've had thatfor sure.
Yeah, I think a lot of us have.
Yeah, we all have For sure, youknow, on this side of the coin,
(41:11):
have.
Well, I think that this isagain.
I always want to have a call toaction for people to get
involved with politics and wetalked, you know, in the last
few episodes about ifdemonstrations and protests are
your best avenue for action.
Please do that.
But I would like to, you know,we've got the potential.
You know we talked about redwave and blue wave and these
political movements over thepast few election cycles.
(41:32):
Man, if there was ever a reasonto motivate somebody to get up
off the couch and run for officeat any level direct impact to
you, your neighbors, yourbrothers and sisters, your, your
friends and comrades in armslike that that should be the
thing that if you ever thoughtwell, it's not going to impact
me, so I don't have to run foroffice.
It's not going to impact me, soI don't need to lobby.
(41:53):
It's not going to impact me, soI don't have to go talk to my
Congressman.
It's impacting all of us now.
And so I want the call toaction to be if you're a veteran
and you have some gas left inthe tank, please run for office,
please help protect thesebenefits.
Please be the voice in the roomthat can tell somebody that
comparing regular life insuranceof a 50-year-old man to the
(42:15):
life insurance policies of aveteran is just not the same,
and we need to be in the room tohave that conversation so that
we can affect these policies.
Otherwise, it's me and Adamtalking into a podcast we got to
talk to.
You know that's helpful, but wehave to be saying these things
to our elected officials as well, or we need to be the elected
officials that are saying thesethings.
So that's my big call to actionhere is don't let somebody else
(42:37):
suffer.
If you have the chance to dosomething about it, please do.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, and don't take any election off either.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Correct.
We have an April 1st election.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
There's never yeah, Ballots are out.
Make sure you get your ballots.
In April, 1st November schoolboard elections.
That's going to be huge.
That was how MAGA reallyinfiltrated a lot of places.
It was starting at school boardand city council levels.
So like we need to get backinto these races and actually
start having tough conversationsin our communities.
I agree, and that's where RET'scome in handy, because we've
(43:06):
done it our whole career.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
We don't mind standing up to a little bit of
heat, right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
In the most diverse workforce ever.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah, you know, so like we can speak from
experience, yeah, you run intoeverybody.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
So, yep, all right, man.
Well, let's wrap this one up.
Thanks for joining us again inthis episode of Left Face.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Left Face.
This is the Pikes Peak RegionalPodcast, where we talk about
veterans issues and politics.
I am your co-host, dickWilkinson, and I'm joined again
today with Adam Gillard.
Good morning, adam.
Morning Dick.
How you doing, buddy?
I'm doing great, as usual.
I'm happy to be here and happyto talk about the.
You know, I think early on inthe show when I started working
(00:22):
with you about a year ago, a lotof our topics were national
level news things, electionthings and how it's going to
relate to veterans.
Sometimes we had to draw thatconnection.
But in the last few weeks we'vehad nothing but topics where
it's just 100% direct impact toveterans.
(00:42):
So you participated in an event.
I know Progressive Veteranshere was part of the sponsorship
of the event on Monday.
We talked about it last week onthe episode.
It was an empty seat town hall.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And that drew an interest from the veteran
community, from the workers'unions, labor unions that are
here and just general communitysupport.
Right, yeah, there wasdefinitely a heavy veteran
presence online and in person.
Just overall, the response wasoverwhelming.
Yeah, you said you maxed outthe seats.
Yeah, we maxed out the RSVPs.
All the seats were filled andpeople were standing there, so
it was a great showing up there.
We streamed it on YouTube andFacebook and that had around 500
(01:23):
streams each.
The last time I looked there.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
And it's still on YouTube for anybody that wants
to go and watch it.
Post-event I watched itpost-event on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, so I tried to cut out the noise at the
beginning.
So it's still over two hours,but we had like 100 people stand
up and voice their opinion andspeak.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And it was moving too , Like it just tick, tick, tick.
It wasn't.
As these events can be, Someonegets up there, gets on a ramp
and just goes sideways andthey're like, you know, you're
like hey time, you're out oftime.
And they're like they justwon't shut up.
You can't play them off thestage.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, there was none of that, like the whole vibe of
the place was there was a strongenergy of just people wanting
to one be heard and do something.
You know, it was just aplatform for people to to be
able to stand up and voice theiropinions and listen to folks
too, because that goes a longway too.
Even if you just show up andlisten, you educate yourself,
and then you can take thoseconversations back out into your
(02:20):
community and keep spreadingthe message firsthand account,
righthand account, right, I meaneverything.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
There is somebody's first-hand account of how some
policy change that's happeningis impacting them.
Right, that's what everythingthere was, and so the value of
sitting and hearing thefirst-hand account of other
people that are either impactedby the same thing as you you
know, a VA reduction, you'reworried about that and you hear
somebody stand up and say youknow, this VA thing has really
got me worried, right, you go,all right then.
(02:46):
I'm not crazy, I should beconcerned, right?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I'm not making this up, you know, yeah, because I
mean so many times.
We get all of our informationfrom headlines but, like most of
us, don't even have theattention span to read the whole
article.
That's how I am we literallyeducate ourselves off of
headlines.
We literally educate ourselvesoff of headlines.
But when you hear thatfirst-person account and you can
actually just sit there andlisten to them and they dig in.
Yeah, and they have yourattention.
(03:10):
It means something.
I'm hoping it pays prettyimmediate dividends for us,
because one of the folks thatspoke was Liz Rosenbaum.
She was on our podcast when shewas running.
Yes, as a candidate, the moneythat she talked about on that
show, on that podcast when shewas running as a candidate?
Yeah, um, the money that shetalked about on that show, on
that podcast for the PFAScleanup and then investigation
into the different kind ofcontamination with the Trump
(03:33):
administration restrictions,that money's been pulled.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Oh yeah, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, so that's terrible yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
That community down there is going to keep getting.
It's just that the rug gotpulled out from underneath of
that whole thing.
Yeah, is going to keep gettingpoison water.
The rug got pulled out fromunderneath of that whole thing.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, yeah, so, uh, but fortunately, um, I was able
to uh have a town or a non-town,uh a round table with a Senator
Hickenlooper the next day and Ibrought it up to him and his
staff was very interested intrying to help out and get a
solution down there.
Um, because, that's a heavy,heavy veteran community.
That's Carson's backyard rightthere, so it's a heavy veteran
(04:06):
community, and just people ingeneral shouldn't be drinking
poisoned water.
It's a bad idea.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, we've got some historical knowledge of why it's
not a good idea.
You know, I think so many timesin politics we see things that
are almost always like one layerremoved, right, and you say,
okay, well, that's impactingthese people.
I would I have to kind ofempathize with them because that
problem is not necessarilyimpacting me, right, and that's
(04:34):
how a lot of political news, forthe most part, that's how we
experience it, but this is.
I find that the event that youhad highlights that what is
happening in America right nowis different than that right
there.
I can't tell, I can't imagine acategory of people that are not
impacted by the every changethat's going on right now, like
(04:56):
because it's so far, reaching sodeep, reaching into government
in the government services,right.
So so these political stories,if you had 20 different people
get up, all of them might tellyou 20 different things that are
going on.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
That's what was really wild when I sat there and
listened to all those stories.
There wasn't a whole lot ofrepeats, there wasn't, I know,
yeah, the overlap wasn't?
Speaker 1 (05:19):
it wasn't just people standing up going VA.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
VA, va, that wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
That's crazy.
I don't know what word to useto observe that, but and we're
still in the infancy of thiswhole chaos that's going to be
started, just getting started,yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
And so you know, that was the other thing that I
really brought up to SenatorHickenlooper was that with this,
you know, with our communitybeing, you know, 15% veterans
that's not counting spouses anddependents and things like that
these you know huge cuts to notjust the GS government positions
(05:55):
.
It's going to bring downgovernment contracts, things
like that, like everything'sgoing to shrink.
Yep, this community is going tobe absolutely decimated and
it's going to have like peopleare living high Localized
recession.
Right, right, and they're livinghigh on the hog right now and
there's it's going to drive upsuicide rates here.
Yeah, like it's not, it's not.
(06:17):
I mean, again, we have data onthese things where you know,
people lose jobs, loserelationships, get into high
crushing debt that they'vealready, these $700,000 houses
that are all around there'sgoing to be, why are you talking
about?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
my house.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
There's going to be a lot of pain coming towards our
community and we need to getsome guardrails on, because
people are really starting towake up to what's coming, you
know it's a little bit of adeparture, but it's worth
mentioning.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And I guess it's my own observation, maybe anecdotal
, but I feel like these types ofsituations that we're talking
about, where it's a financialoutcome or just the instability
piece of like, I thoughteverything was all good, I
thought I had everything kind oflocked into place.
I'm a veteran, I'm retired, I'myou know, and I've got my job
and I'm paying my mortgage andlike, insurance is right,
everything's on on the rightpage, and then that rug gets
(07:15):
pulled out.
I feel, like the veteranpopulation and that you know
this is anecdotal, but we're athigher risk for self-harm.
But we're at higher risk forself-harm, we already know that.
But there's the like, honor andpride aspect that I think we
(07:46):
put veterans.
A veteran that's facingforeclosure harms himself is
significantly higher than thechances of what we call, you
know, a non-veteran citizenfaces that same challenge.
The chances of them causing,you know that, causing self-harm
, I feel like, are just almostan order of magnitude less, you
know.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, and you know I can't speak to all branches um,
like basic training, but likeday one of Air Force basic
training, you learn that you arean American airman, you will
not falter, you will not fail.
Right On day two you learn thatyou're a failure and like it's
every day.
Like every day, like you're notgood enough.
(08:23):
You're, you're trying to dothings.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, breaking down to rebuild you, right, right,
but like, when you start havingthat water level, like that, it
leaves a stain, that stresslevel, yes, and that stress
level never goes away.
You know, once you leave workand once you retire, like it's
still there.
It is, you just don't know whyit's there anymore.
You know so and yeah, that's it.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
That's a different way of referring to the same
thing I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
And that's what drives people Like, once they
get to that spot where you knowI will not fail, but I'm clearly
a failure.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, this is an unacceptable level of what I
call failure.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Right.
So, yeah, they make theultimate decision.
Yeah, and uh, you know, for usto be be stripping these
benefits that are earned bypeople that, like we were at war
for a long time, yes, peopledid a lot of things that they've
they've earned their benefitsFor sure.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Um, and we get caught up to in retiree versus a five
year service member?
Right yeah.
And like who earns and whodeserves what member?
Right yeah.
And like who earns and whodeserves what?
Right yeah, man, one tour in awar zone is a tour in a war zone
period right, it doesn't matteris uh one, uh one lady that
spoke at the town hall.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
She mentioned that how active duty is kind of left
beside.
You know, when we talk veterans, sure and like, I understand
that, but in my mind's eye I seelike active duty members as
like veterans in their pupastage.
They're just waiting to growout of their shell.
They'll get here.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But policy gets talked about with the VA and the
money on the veteran side ofthe house.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, they'll talk about active duty policy stuff
because that happens inside theDOD not so much on the public
stage, more on the private, likeinternal side of the dod, yeah,
but when it comes to like when,when we, these organizations
out there, like no veteranorganization turns away active
duty members um generally no,there's, that's not the case
unless there's some legalrequirement that's like, hey, we
(10:16):
can't do this for you, you haveto go to, you know, yeah, the
medical clinic on base.
Yeah, but like you know, vfAmerican Legion progressive vets
Support groups.
Like all these places.
When we fight for vets, we'refighting for active duty, oh for
sure.
So I just want to make surepeople understand when I say
vets, that's military writ largemy little active duty.
(10:39):
Pupa is there, I'm countingthem?
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah for sure, oh absolutely.
Pupa is there.
Yeah, I'm counting them.
Yeah for sure, oh, absolutely.
Um, I mean just the the conceptaround, if we're making policy
changes that affect veterans.
Yes, you're right, absolutely.
All of those people willeventually benefit from whatever
policy change is happening nowyeah and if we can fold in their
experience as an active dutymember, then you know we'll.
We'll try to do that.
That reminds me of thelegislation stuff that I worked
(11:04):
on down in New Mexico, whereit's exactly that it was.
Some of the initiatives werepurely post service, you know
benefits and some of them wereactually focused only on active
duty military families that wererotating in and out of the
state.
Cause, from a state levelperspective, you want and now
with a federal funding stuff,the way it's going you can't
(11:27):
jockey for funds and makeyourself shiny and pretty the
way you used to at a state level.
But what used to happen is thatthe military is always putting
out information about, like baserealignment and closure.
There's always these analysisgoing on of what's the school
system like in this area, what'sthe cost of living in this area
?
What's the cost of living inthis area?
What's the availability ofsuitable housing for the right
(11:47):
pay grades?
Right, like those things areall getting analyzed all the
time, those levers are pulled atthe state and local government
level.
Right, if you want to improveyour attractiveness so that you
can keep space command here andnot in Alabama, well then, you
need to have better schools andan appropriate cost of living
and more access to active dutyprograms.
(12:10):
You make yourself attractive bysaying we help active duty
family members, the spouses thattransition into our state, we
license them immediately.
We don't make them go through ayear worth of relicensing.
We say you've got a year ofgrace period, please come to
work and we'll get you licensedin our state over the next year.
That is very attractive, right.
And now, if you're trying todecide, as a like we were
(12:32):
talking last week, if you're thethree-star, four-star looking
at your command, moving aroundsomewhere, that quality of life
stuff, the recruitment piece isimportant, and so that's the way
that a local community or astate can make themselves more
attractive in these decisions,right.
So active duty, lifestyle andquality of life is critical for
the people that understand it.
It's a way to compete, to keepthat DOD money in the door and
(12:55):
keep those resources flowing,and that only happens, you know,
in these kind of specialinterest lobbying movements,
right, where you go.
Just a very small percentage ofour population are active duty
people on basis, but theirfamilies have really unique
experiences that we need to.
We want to support them, right,and that's important.
And so, yes, you're absolutelyright.
(13:16):
The messaging of politicalmovement around veterans is, as
often as possible, includesactive duty people.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Yep.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Um, another thing, uh , from the town hall uh, that
came up with was there was oneindependent guy that came up and
talked, okay, and uh, yeah, Iwas.
I mean he, he knew what he wasgetting into, you know, cause he
came up and he said and he saidand he tried to say you know,
we need somebody in the middlethat can bring independence and
(13:46):
Republicans.
You know, republicans are goodpeople and they're just being
lied to and like, like, and Iunderstand that argument to a
point.
But you know, like, for a lieto be successful it takes two
people.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
It does the liar and the person and the believer and
the believer.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
at some point you have to hold people accountable
for still believing the bullshit.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
And so, like we are, we are crossing some of those
lines now where hopefulness oflike, well, I think he's going
to do this and and then the badthing is not going to happen
yeah, it's happening.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
He's doing exactly everything that, yeah, he said
he was going to do, but so sothe guy still and he knew he was
going to kind of get a littleharassed for that, but he stood
up there and said it.
I was like man, good on you.
For that's the point of thesetown halls is not just to be an
echo chamber for far leftDemocrats to holler and scream
Get these people up there thathave a little bit different
opinion and people in the crowdgive them their time, Be
(14:39):
respectful.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
So I thought that was really cool to actually see a
wider net than yeah, even ifit's just one, and of course,
there were other people in theroom that didn't speak that
would fall into that category.
There were other people thatwere definitely more independent
or were not affiliated voters.
There had to be.
So that's good.
I mean, again, like you said,that person as we talked about
(15:03):
in the past, they're going to goand they're going to talk about
their experience.
Right, they're going to go tellother people that are not maybe
very politically active.
That independent person isgoing to say I went to this
place and this is what happened.
That could lead to more interestand activity from that middle,
flexible voter base, the more wecan talk the future I see on
(15:24):
the news all the time.
Well, what's the future of thedemocratic party?
How are they going tore-establish a path forward?
And like they don't have anypower right now so they can't
chalk up any wins, and there'sall this, you know, talk about.
What's the consternation aboutthe future?
Right, if it was, it shouldhave always been and it will
continue to be that the, themiddle, has to be courted, right
, I mean, the.
(15:45):
The proof in the last electionwas that.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You know, the middle was, was lost, you know but,
like in our area, the middledidn't even show up like 60
voted.
Well, there you go.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
They weren't courted right, the and the last
presidential level, they weren'tcourted well, they were courted
with the basically, you don'twant that evil thing.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, it's always the evil.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, it was, and that's not courting right.
That's like convincing you thatwhich foot do you need to shoot
off?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yes, chamber electric chair.
You're not courting anyone withthat.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, and so there wasn't any.
The message of hope wasexclusively for Democrats as far
as, like the presidential levelcampaign, the message for hope
was spoke to the Democratic base, and I don't think there was
much there that independent forindependence.
It was like hey, you know,don't worry about how good or
bad us as Democrats will be, youjust need to worry about how
bad Donald Trump will be.
(16:41):
Need to worry about how badDonald Trump will be.
That was kind of the democraticmessage.
To court the middle ground wasto scare people away from Trump,
and it wasn't.
You know, flies are attractedto honey, so let's pour honey
all over our platform, right,and let's make these middle
people believe that the left orthat the democratic agenda
serves them as well.
We said, actually, we kind ofdon't serve you, you're doing
(17:04):
your own thing, and we're overhere fighting for these minority
groups or these specialinterest groups or these other
groups that you don't fall into,and that's still what we're
going to keep doing, but wewould love your help.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
You know, it's like.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
Yeah, yeah, a lot of labor folks that they just felt
like they were been forgottenfor 10, 15 years.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
So the courting didn't happen in my mind, right,
and so the way to move forwardis to court, and having one
independent voter show up to anevent like that is great.
I don't know how you.
I mean, it comes down to thelanguage of describing the event
you know and and where you holdit, right.
I mean, yeah, those kind ofthings, right?
Speaker 2 (17:39):
I don't know I don't have a solution.
Well, and trying to market.
You know like all my networksare gonna obviously lean one way
, sure you know.
So trying to get the word outand market to people.
That you know just kind ofbecause a lot of people are
upset that we don't have arepresentative.
That's gonna that's havingin-person town halls.
You know, like it's part of thegig.
Man, like, yeah, you knowwhether you're he's trying to
(18:01):
fight to install a monarchy ortrying to fight for democracy.
This is part of the gig.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, like people stand up and get their ass
chewed well, and I and I sentyou that one thing and it's in
between these last two episodes,but I sent it was a video of a
guy, um, a representative, thatwas getting getting raked over
the coals.
He said now you see why peopledon't want to come and have
these town halls, right, and itwas like you, dude like what,
what you know yeah.
(18:29):
And talking about being it wasthe, it's the like I don't know
man.
That mentality is basically I'mthe school principal.
You all are just a bunch ofmisbehaving little kids in a
classroom and I'm here to tellyou how to act and if you don't
listen to me, you're going toget whooped.
Right Like that's what he saidto them.
Right Like you grown-up votersthat really do matter in my
(18:50):
future of my work.
You guys need to shut up andcolor right.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
And what frustrates me is you never get good, clean
answers from them on anything.
No, you know and I learned inmy leadership trainings and the
ethical training classes that wego through that if you can't
tell your kids, if you can'ttell your grandparents what
you're doing, it's not ethical.
You're in the wrong lane.
You should not be fucking doingthat.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yes, absolutely and you're absolutely right.
Yes, absolutely and you'reabsolutely right.
I mean, in the uh, just when,when there are times and I'll
say this there in not thecurrent era, but in the past
there's always somebody who'sgoing to show up to something.
They're going to put out sometype of topic.
It's usually a very weird, umfringe topic.
(19:34):
They'll bring it to thatpolitician and they'll say you
know, um, just, you know, kindof, like I say, weird fringe
topic thing.
But it's a small group of peopleand they're in some place and
they're like hey, if we don'tget um new stripes painted on
this road out here, we're goingto have three traffic fatalities
next year.
And they get in there and theyjust want to own the you know
(19:55):
the whole topic with somespecial little thing like that
Um, own the.
You know the whole topic withsome special little thing like
that Um, that's not what's goingon in any of these places right
now.
It's not weird fringe peoplecoming and making a point and
putting on a stunt, right, it'snot that at all.
It's genuine people talkingabout very broad reaching issues
.
And the the Republicanpoliticians, are just 100
(20:18):
percent empty handed right now.
Right, they're just sayinglisten.
If you don't lick Trump's boot,you won't understand.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And I hear a person who has never licked this boot
before.
So you're just not going to getit.
You're welcome to leave theroom now, right, and I'm like
damn, I just can't believe the.
It's so in your face.
It is so blatant of like thereis no answer.
We're just in lockstep withwhatever this dude thinks he's
doing.
We as a co-equal branch ofgovernment are not going to do
(20:52):
anything and stop asking.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
That's what they're saying.
That basically means you'regiving away your power.
They are, you know, they arethe power of the purse, the
power to you know actuallylegislate.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And to complain about hearing your constituents tell
you about real problems, right,that's its own form of giving up
your power, right.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Yeah, because that's always the two biggest things
when they talk about what we doas legislators.
You know what we do aslegislators.
The biggest thing that we do isconstituent services and we
answer phone calls and we takecare of you guys.
Horseshit, here we are.
People are now not gettingresponses.
It's just sad.
The event itself was phenomenal.
Luce got a hold of me a weekbefore that whole thing went.
(21:39):
I took about 10 days and thatthing was set up, um and uh,
yeah uh.
Deanna is another big helper.
Colleen, like the other four ofus, just kind of did that in a
week.
So thank you to all of themthat helped out.
That's excellent.
Everybody that showed up, setup chairs Awesome, Appreciate
everybody Uh you.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
I did hear that MSNBC gave a little shout-out a
little run.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah, they really appreciated it was the Rachel
Maddow show.
She really appreciated the minicrank head on the Folgers can.
Oh, yeah, yeah, she made acomment about that, but yeah, it
was just like a segment wherethey go around the country and
show different protests around.
Yeah, yeah, and we made that.
So that was pretty cool,definitely more coverage than
(22:24):
we're used to getting aroundthis area, for sure.
One person even talked aboutthe whole Steve Bannon thing.
Have you been following that atall?
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Oh, that he was going to be at Antlers, yeah, and
then it got canceled, okay.
But see, they did a Trump rallylate last year and we're all
about it, right.
They were like come on and getyour Trump on down here at
Adler's.
Trump's a little different thanSteve Bannon.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Steve Bannon's a little bit further right,
because the whole Z-Hail thatCPAC, Well yeah.
So when you sign Steve Bannon,you're making a deliberate
statement.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, I didn't think they cared.
No, they don't they don't?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So Phil Long Music Hall is now hosting it.
The old Boot Barn, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
So yeah, I'll definitely not be going to any
shows at.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
Boot Barn or to that music hall.
Yeah, I don't buy new carsanyway, so I can't boycott his
cars Sure sure.
But yeah, if you're a companythat brings in somebody that
just spews hate like that, it'sgoing to bring a lot of the
white supremacists out in thisarea.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
We have some up in the North.
It will be that kind of rally.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
So it's good, it's going to be gross up there, yeah
.
So I hope folks just stay awayfrom it and just don't give it
attention, because if you gothere to protest you're going to
A counter protestprotest typesituation.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, there will be somebody out there who does that
.
Oh, there sure will be, becauseanywhere Steve Bannon goes,
somebody sets up acounter-protest right, yeah.
Which is good, because dudeshouldn't be?
I mean, everyone has a right tofree speech, but the people who
don't agree with them have theright to come and say they don't
agree with them.
Right, we need to do that, yeah, yeah, you know, just real
quick, side, little side, jauntSteve Bannon.
(23:59):
Right, we've always known thathe's a puppet master to some
degree, right, yeah, and he'smaintained somehow.
That's the strange thing.
How many people in Trump'sorbit have that kind of staying
power?
Bannon's been around the wholetime, man, since day one.
Yeah, he's like the only one.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Even.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Giuliani has been gone for years.
At this point you would havethought giuliani would have been
that like stick of thieves kindof guy.
But bannon, is that guy, right?
Yeah, and so I think is hestill useful?
That's he is, and um, but youknow he can survive talking.
Uh, smack about elon, right,like he's out here throwing
rocks at elon like this dude'sdumb.
(24:37):
He's not an american.
I don't know why everybodythinks he's so cool.
Well, steve doesn't like that,because Elon's taking his job.
Right, I mean he's the numberone ear bender.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
That was.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Steve's job was to ear bend Donald Trump.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And now he's on the other shoulder Both devils.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
yeah, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Bannon had an office in the West Wing that he called
his own little war room, andthen when he left the White
House he went and set it up downin Texas, wherever the hell he
is now, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
He doesn't like the competition for the number one
earbender, so here's but I meanmy little jaunt is, steve Bannon
has been kind of like Project2025.
He's always had this sort ofover long reaching agenda of
certain things he wanted toachieve.
Right, european control and thedissolution of like power in
(25:33):
Europe that could be replacedwith right wing ideology in
Europe.
Right, because Europe as weknow Americans, we see Europe as
generally further to the leftoverall from a social
perspective.
That's been the movement inEurope since World War II really
is a lot of social effort Evenbefore that no-transcript it was
(25:59):
based on european influence andthey had it for like 20 years,
sure, sure.
So there you go right, there's,there's always been a uh, it's
the, you know, the birth of alot of liberal ideas and
liberalism is is out of europe,right?
Well, steve bannon apparently,you know, has had a fairly long
and detailed plan of how todeconstruct liberalism in Europe
(26:20):
and, just like, instead ofProject 2025 is the American
extension of that.
But the plan to destabilizeEurope and replace all the
leaders there with people likeOrban and the labor, remove the
labor parties and instill theright wing, you know,
(26:40):
conservative parties in Germanyand in the UK and those kinds of
places.
That's been a overt, not aconspiracy.
It's been an overt kind ofcampaign, secret, little back
campaign thing that's been goingon in Bannon's world the whole
time.
I did not realize that.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
And what blows me away is that this, like
deliberate attack on liberalism,is a deliberate attack on, like
, the founding principles of ournation.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
But he sells it as patriotic to hate liberalism,
yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
There's one brand and flavor of liberal you know of
of patriotism that counts right.
There's one brand and flavor ofyou know of of patriotism that
counts right.
There's one brand and flavor ofof american flag waving that
counts.
And if you do it in any otherway, yeah, even if you are, are
truly a patriot and really docare, if you don't do it in in
the way that he thinks it shouldbe done, you're, you're just,
(27:36):
you're an outsider, you're theenemy, you're a terrorist.
I just didn't realize how muchkind of finger in the pie Steve
Bannon has had as far as, likedeconstructing NATO and
convincing Trump that NATO isjust the worst thing in the
world.
Right, like that.
Is that?
(27:56):
That is purely Bannon's likebrainchild to do that and to
keep that kind of focus?
Well, steve Bannon may have hisyou know druthers over Europe,
but we're going to shift topics.
What?
Speaker 2 (28:09):
is druthers.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Druthers, you know he has these ideas and choices and
you know he wants to.
He has these certain ways.
He wants things to be when doesthat?
Word come from.
I've never heard that.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
You've never heard that, druthers.
I'm a fairly well-educatedperson.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I have my druthers about that Interesting.
Yeah, it's like thoughts, maybereservations, maybe you know, I
have my own ideas you knowInteresting?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, all right, I'll have to slip that in.
Well, there you go.
Now you have a new word.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Um, he has that about Europe but we have a much more,
uh, much more serious topic.
That unfortunately is.
It comes close to home.
Um, I've known people that have, that have been impacted by
this same set of circumstances.
Um, we're going to talk aboutveteran suicide for a moment,
and not just veteran suicide,but the what's left behind for
(28:58):
families and people that areconnected to this tragic event
to have to deal with Um and theprevailing understanding that,
you know, there's somemisunderstandings about what
happens when these things happen.
On the active duty side of thehouse, it almost doesn't matter
how you perish.
If you're a service member, thebenefits of life insurance and
(29:20):
a death financial disbursementare issued to your family with
very little question or scrutiny.
It just kind of doesn't matterwhat happened.
Right, whether you die incombat, whether you die by
suicide or you just slip off aladder, it doesn't matter.
For veterans and for peopleunder the VA side of the house,
the VA healthcare system, andthat are relying on benefits
(29:42):
that are from the VA andgovernment perspective, versus
the active duty and DODperspective, the conversation is
a lot different and there'sbeen a news article this week in
CNN some news coverage, Ishould say about the follow-on
effects of when veterans taketheir lives and they're on the
VA system, there's a lot ofcomplications for their family
(30:03):
to pursue those benefits thatthey're owed.
So, adam, do you have?
You know?
I know we've both got someexperiences with this, but
what's the?
What's the kind of recentmovement on this topic that
you're aware of?
Um?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
so the uh, the benefit that you're talking
about is the dependency andindemnity compensation DIC.
Um, that that's the one that uhgives money to your dependents
after you pass, so that, ifyou're a disabled veteran, that
if you're a disabled veteran, ifyou're a disabled veteran and,
like you know, the soul winner,the breadwinner and things like
(30:36):
that they lose, that it givesthem a little something to get
back on their, you know, getlife started again.
Right To.
Maybe you know, if you're, say,a child whose parent committed
suicide, you get to go totherapy in high school versus
having to get a job.
You know, if you're, say, achild whose parent committed
suicide, you get to go totherapy in high school versus
having to get a job.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
You know things like that.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
They're not living high on the hog.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, we're not handing people keys to a new
fight and prove things, becausethis benefit if it's a death or
just or.
I'm gonna read just how it saysum, if a veteran's death or
disability is determined to bethe result of their own willful
misconduct, their survivingfamily or veteran themselves may
not be eligible for dic orother va benefits.
(31:26):
So this misconduct clausethat's inside of our VA
structure here says that ifyou're suicide is obviously
veteran misconduct.
If you're speeding in traffic,if you're A DUI, yeah, drunk
rock climbing, that's on you,yeah, like that's on you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Yeah, you're taking a really high risk situation,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
And you pass.
They cut your benefits off andnow your spouse that was relying
on you for everything.
Not only do they lose theirspouse or their mother, or
father now they have to worryabout bills and it just
compounds on each other A lot ofthese vets that make this
(32:16):
ultimate decision.
They have the thought processthat people are better off and
this is easier, and these arethe long-term ramifications that
you know.
One, I don't think it weighsinto their factors at all yeah,
that's what we agreed on, thatyeah but these are those
secondary third effects thatpeople don't understand and like
(32:39):
it's going to have a rippleeffect in this community because
this community is going to getreally hit hard with this.
Um, you know, yeah, we made thestatement earlier.
I hate to beat the dead horsehere, but the dod is like
pulling the Um, you know?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
yeah, we made the statement earlier.
I hate to beat the dead horsehere, but the DOD is like
pulling the cracks open.
You know we worry aboutveterans slipping through the
cracks and that's usually thestory you hear.
When someone you know takestheir life outside of the VA,
they go oh, this guy slippedthrough the cracks, this guy or
gal, we're pulling the cracksopen with forklifts right now.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
You know people Sparta, kicking them down into
the gap going.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
We don't care about you, Right, and?
And there's, there's, you know,just right, here in El Paso
County there's a hundred peoplethat have lost their jobs, that
don't know the way forward.
They are hearing headlinesabout how the VA is going to
turn off certain benefits.
They're getting emails from theVA in their own inbox saying
this thing we were going to do,we're not doing it anymore.
Right, and that's scary, right.
(33:28):
You know the resource that you,as an active duty person, you
know you've got this safety netunderneath of you and you've got
layers and layers and layers oflike things that are going to
fall out of the sky to help youdeal with problems.
Right, Then, once you get onthe other side of that and
you're a veteran, a lot of thoselayers disappear and you may.
Maybe the VA is the only safetynet you feel like you have.
And now you're gettingheadlines and emails and text
(33:51):
messages and phone calls sayingwe at the VA care about you, but
we're not going to do thisprogram anymore.
Right, and you're saying that'sthe only safety net I have.
And now I just lost my job andI don't have health care
benefits that I had for my job.
I don't have those anymore, andnow I'm concerned that the VA
is not going to do their partfor me and my family.
(34:11):
Yeah, people are going tosuffer from that and there's
going to be people that hurtthemselves.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah, and so the family members that are left
behind suffer, and this isactually something that the
progressive vets have beenworking for a long time.
The previous chair, kent Jarnaghe actually worked with Senator
Bennett and SenatorHickenlooper's offices and got
them to sign letters kind ofexplain this.
This was a few years ago andthey sent it to the VA secretary
(34:36):
at the time and the VA'sresponse was yeah, we don't
support suicide.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
No, kidding, nobody is Nobody supports suicide, yeah
.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
But they did not address the issue.
And here we're now again, andthis guy that did the article
Kent's been working with him fora few years now, and so Kent
tipped me off to the articlebeing dropped.
So I could tell SenatorHickenlooper.
But you know this guy, jeffWinters.
His article's on CNN right now.
It might have been picked up byJake Tapper and things like
(35:07):
that, but it's out there andit's starting to get traction
and people need to be aware thatthese types of laws are.
Not only are we having thingspulled away from us, but we
still need to fight for thingsthat we should have had.
In the beginning.
We weren't done fighting forall the benefits that we've
earned to begin with, and nowthings are pulling back.
We can't forget about theseother fights.
(35:27):
Sure, we need to keep, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Don't, don't.
The shiny ball right, which isdistraction, is part of the plan
right For our, for the currentadministration distraction and
too many moving parts, so younever know what's doing what.
That's part of the plan, right,you know.
So, yeah, you're absolutelyright.
If we lose visibility on thingslike this that have been in our
(35:50):
lives and in our communitiesfor years, because we get
distracted by some headlineabout Pete Hegseth, Well, that's
disservice to all of us.
Right?
We need to know what's going onand not lose sight of these
issues, Because what we'retalking about here is a spouse,
male or female, doesn't matterthe family that's left behind
when a service member hurtsthemselves and, as Adam and I
mentioned earlier, you know theidea that policy that government
(36:14):
leaders believe policy impactsthe decision of a service member
to take their own life or not.
Right, that's almost certainlynot the case.
Right, Just the same.
As you know, I don't want tocompare them, but when someone's
out committing a crime, inoften cases they're not thinking
about the consequence, right?
They don't think.
Man, I sure hope I don't go tojail for 10 years right, that's
(36:35):
just not in their mind.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
you know I haven't checked the updated statutes yet
.
Yeah, let me see Is the deathpenalty worthy or not.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I'm not sure, right, but I'll take it just to this
line and then I'll stop before Iget to the death penalty line,
right?
No, and so that same.
You know, we can't afford theclear-headed mentality to
anybody who's in a position ofmental health concern to say
well, you knew the rules right.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
You read all the VA regulations before you took all
that.
You signed this piece of paper.
Yeah, yeah, it's ridiculous.
I mean I think most people thatare probably listening to this
have had those dark clouds.
Well, if you hurt yourself,your family won't get anything.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
That's not having the effect that we hope it has at
all, right, and so it's nothelping anyone, right?
So if we're looking at policiesthat don't help people, maybe
(37:37):
we need to either change thepolicy or just get rid of that
whole line in the book, right?
Just delete that line, you know.
Get rid of the misconductclause, because it's not very
realistic to the outcomes ofwhat service members and
veterans are experiencing andthat's what I recommended to
Senator Hickenlooper.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I'm sure it bounced off the wall on that one.
But because, even if you know,we talked a little bit too about
the if the service member wasjust a dirtbag and just doesn't
like, the service member himselfdoesn't deserve benefits.
You know, if they do someviolent crime, some horrific
crime against children maybethey don't, but then in the
process they kill themselvesyou're going to take the money
(38:14):
away from the victims of hiscrimes.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Right.
That person didn't ask for thispenalty, right.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
You're punishing the victims of this horrific
situation and if there's somecrazy CSI SVU episode that comes
out of something and it's justsome weird twists and turns,
cool, we'll look into it.
We'll figure out that fraudRight.
But we can't assume thateverybody out there is trying to
defraud the government,especially victims of suicide.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, that's the blanket approach is the problem
right now, and the blanketshould basically just be turned
in the total opposite direction.
Right, you know, of like, let'sassume this is real and valid
and you need this help, and thenif there's some just something
totally fishy and obviouslywrong, we'll investigate.
But we're going to start withthe assumption that this is a
real claim, you really need thishelp, and that there's not.
(39:03):
There's nothing fishy going onhere, right, People don't show
up asking for you know, it's notthe same as buying a life
insurance policy and thenmurdering your spouse that CSI
episode and that's a real thing,and you know we understand why
that happens.
This is not that, you know thisis just not that.
And so putting it into thatcategory, treating it like any
(39:24):
other type of life insurancesituation, is really a
misjudgment of the wholesituation from a government
policymaker or from someonewho's trying to impact the
problem to go well.
Just just like life insurance,you don't want to give people
the incentive to die.
That's just not what we'redealing with here, you know.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
So yeah, oh man, yeah , yeah, it's just crazy and,
like we said, in the veterancommunity we have a higher risk
of suicide.
So, you know, if you'relistening and us talking about,
this made you think aboutsomebody reach out to them.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
You're aware that the government does not always have
your back, your family, youknow.
If you have the clear head tohear this message now and
understand what impacts it couldhave on your family, you know,
ask for help now.
Don't wait and don't let thesetypes of things if anything,
(40:20):
they should motivate us to goout and do even more to protect
each other Right.
Like.
It's time to close ranks andhelp each other out.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
Right, yeah, if you think of somebody who's at risk,
you call them, you reach out tothem.
There's a funny I can'tremember if it was somebody I
talked to, if it was a cartoon,but but if somebody like talking
to a therapist, and thetherapist asked if they had any
suicidal ideations and it was aveteran on the couch and he
responds you know, normal amount, yeah.
And the therapist is like, well, zero is the normal amount,
(40:48):
right.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Oh, not the normal amount then.
Yes, yeah, yeah, and I'vedefinitely had that conversation
.
I'm like it's about the same.
Yeah, okay, yeah, I've had thatfor sure.
Yeah, I think a lot of us have.
Yeah, we all have For sure, youknow, on this side of the coin,
(41:11):
have.
Well, I think that this isagain.
I always want to have a call toaction for people to get
involved with politics and wetalked, you know, in the last
few episodes about ifdemonstrations and protests are
your best avenue for action.
Please do that.
But I would like to, you know,we've got the potential.
You know we talked about redwave and blue wave and these
political movements over thepast few election cycles.
(41:32):
Man, if there was ever a reasonto motivate somebody to get up
off the couch and run for officeat any level direct impact to
you, your neighbors, yourbrothers and sisters, your, your
friends and comrades in armslike that that should be the
thing that if you ever thoughtwell, it's not going to impact
me, so I don't have to run foroffice.
It's not going to impact me, soI don't need to lobby.
(41:53):
It's not going to impact me, soI don't have to go talk to my
Congressman.
It's impacting all of us now.
And so I want the call toaction to be if you're a veteran
and you have some gas left inthe tank, please run for office,
please help protect thesebenefits.
Please be the voice in the roomthat can tell somebody that
comparing regular life insuranceof a 50-year-old man to the
(42:15):
life insurance policies of aveteran is just not the same,
and we need to be in the room tohave that conversation so that
we can affect these policies.
Otherwise, it's me and Adamtalking into a podcast we got to
talk to.
You know that's helpful, but wehave to be saying these things
to our elected officials as well, or we need to be the elected
officials that are saying thesethings.
So that's my big call to actionhere is don't let somebody else
(42:37):
suffer.
If you have the chance to dosomething about it, please do.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, and don't take any election off either.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
Correct.
We have an April 1st election.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
There's never yeah, Ballots are out.
Make sure you get your ballots.
In April, 1st November schoolboard elections.
That's going to be huge.
That was how MAGA reallyinfiltrated a lot of places.
It was starting at school boardand city council levels.
So like we need to get backinto these races and actually
start having tough conversationsin our communities.
I agree, and that's where RET'scome in handy, because we've
(43:06):
done it our whole career.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
We don't mind standing up to a little bit of
heat, right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
In the most diverse workforce ever.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah, you know, so like we can speak from
experience, yeah, you run intoeverybody.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
So, yep, all right, man.
Well, let's wrap this one up.
Thanks for joining us again inthis episode of Left Face.
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