June 26, 2025 • 31 mins
Freedom, surveillance, and veterans' unique perspective on democracy collide in this riveting crossover episode featuring hosts from Left Face and Justice with Jax. When progressive activist Jax Armendiaz had their entire digital life confiscated by police following a housing justice protest—despite never being convicted of any crime—it exposed the dangerous erosion of Fourth Amendment protections happening right in our backyard.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when Dick Wilkinson, a retired Army veteran and podcast co-host, reveals his background as an NSA surveillance professional. His insider perspective illuminates the stark contrast between federal intelligence agencies' strict protocols regarding Americans' privacy and the seemingly unlimited reach local police sought through search warrants targeting activists. This firsthand knowledge adds critical context to Jax's ongoing ACLU lawsuit against the City of Colorado Springs, now approaching 690 days in litigation.
What emerges is a troubling pattern: military-heavy communities like Colorado Springs, where veterans comprise 15% of the population, often become testing grounds for surveillance tactics and civil liberties infringements. The hosts explain how military culture discourages political participation during active service, creating patterns of disengagement that continue into civilian life and leave these communities vulnerable to governmental overreach.
Against the backdrop of recent political assassinations and heightened tensions nationwide, this conversation couldn't be more timely. The hosts grapple with how fear functions as a tool to suppress political engagement while emphasizing the vital importance of pushing through that fear to protect democracy. For veterans, military families, and civilians alike, this episode offers crucial insight into how surveillance and constitutional rights intersect in our increasingly digital world.
Ready to hear veterans speak truth about surveillance, democracy, and political engagement? Subscribe now and join the conversation about protecting our constitutional rights in military communities and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Left Face.
I am your co-host, adam Gillard.
Not with me today is my co-host, dick Wilkinson.
We were able to cut an episodeof Justice with Jax with Jax
Armadillas a couple weeks ago,and we will bring you the first
part of that interview right now.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good afternoon everybody.
This is Justice with Jax,season 3, episode 4.
Once again, we have aphenomenal human being for you,
and once again I'm here toremind you today is Friday, june
20th 2025, and that's one year,10 months, 20 days or 690 days
(00:41):
that the case Advent, that is,versus City of Colorado Springs
was filed and represented by theAmerican Civil Liberties Union
of Colorado.
So I'm back with anotherepisode to share some of what
that journey is looking like andwhere we're at right now.
But first I want to pass themic to my wonderful guest today
(01:01):
and let them introducethemselves.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Hi, jax.
Thanks for inviting me overhere.
My name is Adam Gillard, I amthe chair of the El Paso County
Progressive Veterans, andjoining us also is my co-host on
the left face, dick Wilkinson.
We're going to set him up realquick here.
Like always, dick likes to showup a couple minutes late.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
He's the talent.
I have everything ready for mewhen I get there.
Yeah, I try.
I'm sorry I don't have yourorder.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I've got one over here for you.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, so my name is Adam Gillard.
I run the Progressive Veterans.
We do a lot of communityactivities around town, helping
out just wherever we can Peoplereach out and we help.
Got involved with 5051, doing alot of the planning for
protests and stuff downtown.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thank you for that important work.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It's a lot of fun.
Last weekend was such a goodvibe downtown for having 10,000
to 12,000 people.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Seriously yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
There was one small incident but everybody like was
just happy to be there, that youknow they were, you know
dancing and happy just to be outdoing something so joy is
resistance.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We talk about that on this show.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
So yeah, not giving into like the.
The violent rhetoric is huge.
You know you don't give themthose wins by being a peaceful
movement, um, so yeah, yeah,it's been a whole lot of fun, a
lot of great learningopportunities, meeting tons of
great people.
And then, yeah, me and Dick doLeft Face, giving a veteran's
political perspective on what'sgoing on in the world and kind
(02:37):
of bringing it back to the localscene here.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well done.
Well, do you want to take abeat to introduce yourself as
well, Dick?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Sure, absolutely.
Thanks for inviting us over tobe guests on the show and do a
crossover episode.
My name is Dick Wilkinson andI'm retired from the Army after
20 years.
I retired back in 2019.
And as soon as I retired, thatwas my opportunity to get into
politics.
I ran for state Senate down inNew Mexico, where I was
(03:06):
stationed at the time when Iretired and had been in the
community for about five yearswhen I separated.
So I decided that was going tobe my long-term home for a while
, so that would be where I didpolitics, ran that race for a
few months, backed out of it.
Didn't run it to the end, butthat led me into a lot more
engagement with the VeteransCaucus in New Mexico and that
really opened my eyes to how youcan make traction happen at the
(03:28):
state level and how that canstill have real, genuine impact
on military members and theirfamilies.
So that's something I've beenpassionate about over the last
few years and it's really myfocus for political work.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Glad to hear that it sounds like.
Another thing we talk about onthis show is community building
and there's lots of layers tothat and there's lots of layers
to that and there's lots of waysto do that.
And it is super cool for thisto be the first time I get to
collab with another force doingthe good work here in El Paso
County by really bringing outlocal voices, local perspectives
(03:59):
and keeping it actually reallyrelevant to current events so
people stay knowledgeable itactually really relevant to
current events.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So people stay knowledgeable.
Yeah, yeah, you know,especially, you know, when we
have such should be nationallevel huge topics, like you know
, the folks that got, you know,kidnapped and that are still
missing and our governmentofficials are silent on, like we
talk about it pretty much everyweek.
You know we try to keep them,you know, in the cycle because
it is absolutely tragic andhorrific that it's already
passed those 80 plus people justgone.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, and their family members are the only ones
that understand the impact and,as we've talked about on our
show, they're also some of theleast well positioned to do
anything about that impact.
And so the you forget about thepeople who are missing, you
forget about their familymembers that are impacted by
that because the origin isColorado Springs.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Right.
And so that's the case wherethe ACLU is representing myself
and the Chinook Center, who youall may have heard of, because
they're another organizing forcefor progressives here in
Colorado Springs as a nonprofit.
They're another organizingforce for progressives here in
Colorado Springs as a nonprofit,and so we're still waiting for
an opinion from the US Court ofAppeals for the Tenth Circuit.
So hurry up and wait, as myfriends from the military
(05:34):
understand.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oh yeah, For sure yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
That's a prominent feeling and this was like a
violation of the search or thearguments are really uh some
first amendment grounds, butprominently focused on the
fourth amendment, which is theright to privacy.
Right and so what?
Uh, the key, like peace, peopleshould take away from that is
(05:57):
there are really, reallydangerous warrants that the
police filed when they accusedme of a crime of which I was
never convicted, and thesewarrants that the police filed
when they accused me of a crimeof which I was never convicted.
And these warrants are soegregious that, were they
allowed to stand as part of ourlaw, we really would be
endangering democracy and thatright that we have to privacy
the fourth in the Bill of Rightsand, like I said, it's
(06:19):
connected to the First Amendmentas well, because when I was
accused, arrested and theninvestigated where they took all
of my electronic devices withsearch warrants, we were in the
midst of a housing justiceprotest and so it was the
protest activity it was thestory, and this was during the
(06:39):
big BLM movement too, right?
Actually, it was the summerafter that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Summer after okay.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It was August 2021.
So we're coming up on a fewyears here now, and so that's
why one of the big thingsbecause it involves the first
amendment for me it was likeokay, well, I'm going to talk
about this because clearlythey're trying to oppress and
make you be quiet, Right.
And what I've been dealing withlately is I really don't enjoy
(07:05):
at all how the case is aforeshadowing of what has been
going on, Right.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So, as you're talking , I was thinking about just how
they use this area as a test bedto do things like this, like
raid a nightclub and stealpeople illegally wiretap folks.
You know illegally wiretappedfolks, because the general
population here is so pro.
You know police force andeverything that they're blind to
(07:31):
like.
You know you need somerestrictions and things like
that Some balance.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
We're going to talk about that dynamic for sure,
because it's something, like yousaid, I think is a part of the
reputation of where we liveright, el Paso County, colorado.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, it's a test bed for folks to run these things
to see what they can get awaywith really.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And just like you did , because we're going to talk
about the case you filed.
But for better or for worse, wecould dive in on another
episode but for better or forworse-.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I think we're up to like six episodes that we got to
record now.
That's right, because, forbetter or for worse, it takes.
I think we're up to like sixepisodes that we got to record
now.
That's right, because there'sso many rabbit holes you can go
down.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, we just keep diving.
I love it, but you, in ourdemocracy, identify that there's
, unfortunately, like an onus onthe individual right to keep
the government accountable atcertain points and so that's
really what this case is about.
That's really what this case isabout.
And we have people who areorganizations, who joined us on
what is a growing surveillancestate right, which now we're
(08:46):
hearing about even more, when wehave law enforcement at the
federal level straight upabducting people, and so I'm so
glad I'm oblivious to socialmedia I've dialed it down
substantially.
I'm off almost everything.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, I am as well and I yeah, I, I appreciate it.
I agree, I got off of facebook,uh, man, like four years ago,
and talk about not looking backelection day 2024, uh after.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
well, the day after, that's when I was like, nope,
I'm good.
Facebook, and that's theinteresting part, and adam, when
I were talking about this alittle bit, is just all these
platforms that are out there andthere are people who are
stepping up, both trying to keepthe government accountable,
doing what we're doing, bringingvoice to a lot of issues in our
community, and so at this point, I think, with our case, we are
(09:42):
hoping that the context of thetimes just really underscores
how important the aclu'sarguments are in this case, and
so there's just been so muchgoing on and I did want to take
a beat.
you know the spectrum of thewhat I often call the chaos era.
Right is that we've been soldto recent political
assassinations and I wanted tomake sure to say their names
(10:02):
right which which, melissa andMark Hortman, were assassinated
in the state of Minnesotabecause Melissa was a state
legislator and state Senator.
John Hoffman and his wife,yvette, were also shot and are
in recovery, and so, mm, hmm, itis a lot to process these days,
(10:23):
but we can't not talk about itright, right, and I mean that
news came out right before westarted our big protest.
The no kings yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And so you know, talking to the marshals
beforehand, you know everybody'sworried.
You know you never know whenthe next one's going to be, and
we saw it in Salt Lake City.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
In my mind it put a real weird tone on like safety
around the whole day yeah.
And not because I waspersonally like expecting to
participate in anything, butjust nationwide.
I was like man talk aboutunease and like opportunity for
copycat situations or you know,just just confusion causes
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Right, yeah, and that was what.
I felt on Saturdayurday morningwas like oh, this is a chance
for other people to do thingsinside this confusion right and
thankfully, this is why we haveto do it, though right, and I
respect people who have the fearand push through it, and I
would never diminish someone umtheir opinion is, you know, it's
better for me to stay at homeright like to each their own.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
If you feel that gunned down politician that
might make you want to stay homethat day, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
100 and that's the point, right, and I also another
is the point another.
The fear is the point, thechaos is the point.
Another layer to it that Iwould love for you all to chime
in on is that you know,especially with a veteran's
perspective, this commander inchief is really using incredibly
terrible ways as a form ofdistraction for their number of
(11:52):
failures on, you know, asubstantial, substantive, like
policy work that's the othertopic we talk about every week.
And the feint right.
How are they showing us?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
one hand but punching with the other.
We talk about that every weekand it's always projecting
something.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And LA paid the price .
Who else is going to pay theprice?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And I guess the appeals court just gave Trump
back control of the NationalGuard With restrictions right.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I know the courts are going back and forth real hard
on this, one every few days.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I figured it will make the Supreme Court
eventually.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
I read the headline this morning that said controls
back.
You know like basically he cando what he wants, but I didn't
get to read about therestrictions because it was just
like on screen, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, but it's still horrific when.
Any amount of yeah, you stillhave like the 700 active duty
marines or 700, was that thenumber that are there waiting.
And marines are good at theirjob and their job is to shut
their humanity off and getcontrol of the situation.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So you could understand why people will be
scared absolutely yeah, so likejust having them there they're.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Those are dogs waiting to attack right now.
It's an escalation yes,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
A show of force against our people, citizens,
our citizens, other Americans,which is horrifying, I know
folks that are there too, andit's such a small area of what's
going on there also.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I always like to mention that it's such a small
area.
It's like one little cornerintersection where you know they
ordered.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Like about two blocks ?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, they ordered like cars to come up.
You know, they did thedriverless car order like an
Uber type thing, so thedriverless cars pulled up and
then that's when they lit themon fire, took their pictures and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
In this media environment, all it takes is one
photo, one GIF, and the waythat it spreads like a virus,
right?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And there's so many complicated layers to it.
Because the politicalassassinations?
The guy disguised himself aspolice officer.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Way to set that off right and he went to different
homes too.
He had a huge list right, andthen there's always going to be
people criticizing the way lawenforcement handled it too.
Right.
And so then we're seeing allthese political, democratic
political officials beingaccused of assault and arrested
and stuff my house that theyaccused me for second degree
(14:18):
felony, attempted aggravatedassault, because one of them
charged the crowd right and Idropped my bike like what the
hell?
You coming for me?
And um, because it landed nextto him, they were able to accuse
me that I had like lifted it upand thrown it and tried to um
(14:40):
assault him, which was never thecase yeah, and so thankfully, I
was ultimately never convictedof a crime, but that gave them
the impetus to confiscate all myelectronic devices.
Leave me in a total blackoutbecause that's what happens in
today's world, when you don'thave devices and leave me with
the very direct message of sitdown, shut up little girl, you
(15:02):
be quiet.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
shame on you this thing is happening, what you're
afraid of.
It's happening when I give youyour phone back.
On you yeah, yeah, um, thisthing is happening, what you're
afraid of it's happening when Igive you your phone back.
You say thank you, yeah, so Igotta I have to offer this
detail because it's relevant.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I worked for the nsa for my entire career oh wow,
yeah, I'm a surveillance guylet's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
That's what this conversation is about.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
He's like.
I'm well aware of what you'retalking about.
Like Sam, is that you?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I call my FBI agent Sam, or that's the joke on the
internet, right, yeah, yeah,who's watching Gotcha?
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Yeah, no, I just wanted to offer it.
You know, because I don't findmyself in these arguments
anymore.
I guess maybe I was cared aboutit more when I had the uniform
on.
I don't know, sure, or peoplearen't as tuned in on the topic
as much anymore either, but Iget into a position of what I'm
sure is staunch defense, butit's defense based on my
(15:54):
firsthand knowledge that thefederal government, specifically
, and then the intelligencecommunity Let me get even more
specific, not talking about theFBI.
Fbi is a member of theintelligence community, but it's
man.
They don't walk or talk like aduck.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And that's domestic right.
Right, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Everyone else.
If there's 18 members, 17 ofthem are externally focused.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And then one of them can do stuff on the inside.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
So you, know who we don't really play nice with.
On the 17 others the FBI.
Because they have a totallydifferent set of rules a totally
different title authority andperspective too.
Yeah, when I see a nail, I knowwhat hammer to hit it with.
They don't see the same nail oruse the same hammer, and so
there's a lot of um, wait, wait,wait.
Why is the FBI asking aboutthis Right?
(16:38):
Like that would be the initialresponse of like this is foreign
intelligence.
Why do they care about thisRight?
That's my first thing.
Is, if I saw the FBI named insome list of emails or some you
know distribution list, I'd sayI don't produce things that they
can consume.
Why are they in this list?
Right, and that's me defending,saying even that, far back,
(16:59):
people like me, which is tens ofthousands of people that are
doing this type of surveillance,know hey, I know what my
boundaries are, I know what myright and left limits are, and I
know what US citizens are andwhat they're not.
And not only do I know it, Ihave to prove that I know it
every single year to maintain myclearance, that I understand
the difference between anAmerican citizen, an American
(17:21):
organization or US entity andwhatever is everything else.
I know the difference and if Iget information that crosses
that line in either direction, Iknow exactly how to handle that
Right, how to legally disclosethat there was an accidental
collection, how to destroy it,how to report that information
got into the wrong database.
Like hey, this is only supposedto have foreign stuff.
(17:42):
But I see some you know 719phone numbers, whoa huge red
flag.
I push the button and then Ithrow my hands up and say stop,
something bad happened.
I'm just one of 10,000 peoplethat know how to do that, and so
we understood the limits andthe laws very carefully from a
signals, intelligence,surveillance and using that
(18:03):
equipment perspective, and wehad the genuine fear of God in
us that you do it wrong.
Somebody will know.
There's oversight on oversightand even if you think you've
turned this on and you've doneyour little sneaky stuff and
then you turned it off andyou're being shady now someone
knows.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
That's fascinating and you might appreciate this.
That insight is so valuablebecause, um one of the arguments
, of course there's, you know, awhole set that the aclu is
making, but one of them is thatthe fbi has been saying they
want to keep the entire digitalfingerprint of my life that they
confiscated because they tookall my electronics right, even
(18:42):
my, my hard drive with emo musicfrom high school.
Yes, they found every singleone that they could and made a
copy.
And so now they're saying theACLU is arguing that I was never
convicted of a crime, so whyare you retaining?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
that you need to destroy that or return that.
Yeah, return it, because I havelike 10 laptops from my
lifetime that I need to pullstuff off of If.
I get the FBI to do that for me, then give it to me on a thumb
drive.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
That's some taxpayer use of funds.
That is a positive.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, that's a good point.
Maybe I can.
I'll jot that down.
That's why I was really.
Oh, come on, if you identifyright, it's progressive veterans
(19:43):
, because that's one of yourlinks, right?
yeah it's like so don't want toput words in your mouth, but I
think that's amazing becausethat's a viewpoint for residents
here.
Where are?
We have five different militaryinstallations in this county,
so that's going to be a relevantviewpoint to our community.
So I think could you tellpeople a little bit about you
(20:03):
know the origin story of thewhen and how Left Face came
about.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So I ended up getting into nonprofit work and taking
over Progressive Vets in like 23, I think.
And shortly after, I think, youcame in and we kind of met and
just talked and kind of wentseparate ways.
And then I kind of stumbledaround, did some other things
with the progressive vets.
You know, had a campaign forcd5 there.
(20:29):
Um had to put the podcast kindof on hold during that time.
Just you know how much time ittakes to do these things I do.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Technically, I'm doing the opposite for now right
being running a campaign and apodcast?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
yeah, it's crazy how easy it is to do it.
But but it is time consumingespecially when you're learning.
So like I had to put it all kindof on the side while I did the
campaigning and you know we dida lot as the progressive vets
during the campaign to get youknow signs out and have events
around town and you know, lobbyfor the cannabis initiatives
(21:03):
that we were a part of andthings like that.
So my old podcast just kind offell off and I needed to get it
going again for the group andkeep the community educated.
But I didn't want to do onewhere it's just like an
infomercial for somebody.
I loved having guests on andtalking about what they were
doing in their books and thingslike that.
But at the end of the day Ireally want to just educate our
(21:26):
community.
And kind of randomly Dickreached out and we started
talking again and I'm prettyprogressive.
I've hugged at least threetrees today.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Today so far.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
He's not done.
He's not done.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, I'm not done.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So I'm a pretty progressive guy and and uh dick
does a good job of kind ofputting a different perspective
on myself, because I don't likebeing in my own echo chamber
either and just kind of hearingmy own opinion same, you know.
So he kind of gives me adifferent perspective on things,
um, being more of a more oflike a polis democrat, you know,
libertarian, um, you know stillvery much.
(22:06):
You know capitalist free marketbut cares about people, you
know.
So, uh, uh, yeah, but when youreached out we started doing it
and it's, you know, we've beenkind of rocking and rolling with
it since then yeah, um.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yeah, I mean, I met adam when he was running his
campaign and, um, I felt, thefirst time I met him I said man,
why are you running againstthis like stalwart forever?
Republican man.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Like I feel bad that.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
You know, I was like oh, that sounds terrible, you
know.
And then I walked away fromthat meeting and I was like, I
just like pissed on his shoesand I feel bad.
It's a wind out of his sails.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Candidates are used to that, I think.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
We're not close enough for me to go this is a
terrible idea.
But I was like why are you?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
doing that.
I felt so pretty and he's justan ugly son of a bitch.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
And so then after that, I was like I need to stay
in touch with him, Not justbecause I want to apologize, but
because, actually, because Ithought about it more and I said
you know what I actually wantto?
I want to stick close tosomebody who says I don't care
if he's got 10 terms under hisbelt, I'm going to take her on
it anyway, because my ideas areso different than his that I
want people to hear my ideas,and if they like them, then we
(23:17):
got something to work with.
And I said you know what?
That that's my same mode as faras politics goes, and so I want
to work on whatever Adam'sworking on.
So here we are.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
That's great.
I can appreciate that We'vetalked about that on this show
too is that there is a valueagain in raising the information
, raising your voice,communicating with people,
because when you're campaigning,I think if you're doing it the
right way, you're communitybuilding as well.
And you're connecting right.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
That's how your show came about and the goodness of
any kind of grassroots movementcomes in one getting your
candidate elected.
But then too, we like thenetwork of people that gets,
I'll say, left behind, if youwill, right From that grassroots
effort.
So you used, you know, you getgroups like, I'm sure,
indivisible, and 50 51 are bothgroups that if you look back far
(24:05):
enough in their history it wassome other candidate's program
or a nonprofit that wasinvesting in a candidate and
promoting them, and then itcaught fire and turned into
something else.
So most of the really impactfulsocial programs oftentimes are
started from those type of like.
We got it like you say,community rally, and then if the
(24:25):
momentum's there, and then theeffort stays right.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, one thing that I've really appreciated, coming,
you know, from active duty or Iwas a reservist on AGR order,
so I was active duty but comingfrom that community and back
into like civilian life is howall this stuff has always been
going on.
And people like in the communityare so dedicated and put so
much time and effort and justthemselves into building these
(24:51):
things.
Now that I'm able to kind of bea part of that, it's just wild
to me to be surrounded by peoplewho kind of think like me and
just want to hug trees sometimes.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You know I agree completely on the whole, as we
are legally bound to notparticipate in politics that we
knew what it was.
We knew what the impact was, weunderstood how it impacted our
own lives.
But it's like I grew upwatching the Dallas Cowboys.
It's like when I joined theArmy.
If they said you can neverwatch a Cowboys game again until
you retire, you can't go to thestadium, you can't watch the TV
(25:26):
, you just know football exists.
And 20 years from now, you getto watch a Cowboys game and then
you'll find out all about theplayers and all the games they
won and lost.
And you'll get the wholedownload and you'll find out
about all of it.
But that's 20 years from now.
Between now and then, don'tworry about football.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It doesn't exist.
And our ballots.
My ballot my local informationwas for Arizona because there
was no taxes right, so I wasvoting for.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Mark Kelly so.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I didn't care about this area at all.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Same.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
So you just don't get involved with local stuff,
really, yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
It's a discourager.
It's attractive yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
And it's just.
I mean unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Which is now that I was talking about wanting to do
veterans initiatives, as I nowcan watch the Cowboys again,
right.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I want to play the game.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
right, I want to wear the shirt and I want to tell
people about it, right.
But I also want to be able togo get these military family
members, especially maybe notthe active duty person
themselves, but the familymembers.
I want them to not fall intothat trap of well, I don't live
in this County, like really.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, cause it's going to affect you, you're here
this county.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Like really yeah, because it's gonna affect you
three years.
Your kids are here in school,aren't they?
Yeah right, you know, yeah,yeah, if you register to vote
here, you could run for are yougonna buy a house here?
You could run for school boardand help your kids any of those
things right.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
So, whether they're you know just any level of
engagement, or even justthinking about voting, or blow
your mind, register to votewhere you live.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
That's crazy so you don't have to register to vote
back from every time, every timeI talk to a representative and
democrats aren't a fan ofhanding back, you know tax money
, but I I harp on that like weneed to get rid of that state
income tax for active duty folksbecause especially in this area
where we got so much air force,space force, they're a lot more
progressive than the army folks.
So I think it would be a netpositive like at the voting
(27:06):
station for if they did that wewould lose some tax revenue.
But I don't think a whole lotin the bigger picture.
But yeah, I try to push thatevery time.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's a good point, because there are so many
nuances to active duty militarylife that people don't even know
about, because the militaryitself is what percentage of our
country?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
It's usually less than 1%, less than 1 percent and
one percent, and that partseven percent is veterans.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah right, right.
And so I thankfully got aunique perspective myself, um,
being in senator michaelbennett's office and being the
military and veteransconstituent advocate for a while
, and so that was fascinating tome because, like you said, adam
, I would observe differencesamong, maybe, the branches, and
this, you know, what I would sayis something I really respect
(27:54):
this commitment to being I guess, objective is the word to not
engaging because, like you said,they know the commitment they
made right, and yet you knowthere are some instances where
(28:20):
you're active duty and you mayneed to Right, helped us every
time like the staffers thestaffers that work in the
offices, especially when webring military issues um, they
always bend over backwards tohelp us out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It was usually pay issues and things like that, um,
and it's amazing how you know aphone call from you know a
congressional office that blewmy mind witnessing that.
Yeah, yeah, it's like on thecaller id, and like it just
starts flowing, like everybodystarts flowing no sense, and all
I had to do was write it justlike that.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You're asking her to prove a negative on the
senator's letterhead and withina 24 hour period.
I think even she was back ontrack and that was both chilling
but also reaffirming in that,ok, like who you elect matters
because they're supposed toserve you and that includes
(29:29):
constituent services caseworkespecially the federal level.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, that should be a huge, huge thing for anybody
that's front for office years.
Always talk about you knowcasework management, because
you're going to have a lot ofconstituents.
So, like you know, sevenpercent we say are veterans, but
here in our community it's 15there you go so like we're even
high for the state of colorado,because you know, colorado
because, you know, colorado kindof falls along the national
average.
But yeah, yeah, we have a huge,huge contingency here that uh
(29:55):
should have a lot more inputinto this community because
you're a quarter of thecommunity there's that mental
vacuum of like I don't dopolitics so I mean me and adam
are.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I'm not because we're democrats or progressive or
anything, but we're theexception as far as veterans
that find the chance to.
You know, watch Cowboys againand they say man, I haven't
watched them in 20 years.
I don't know who any of theteam members are.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I'm not that interested.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
I don't care, I got my farm I got the house that I
wanted to buy out in themountains and like I'm far
enough away that the last thingI care about is who's in office,
Right yeah.
And that's pervasive here.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah, so you have people who move here and don't
feel ownership over thecommunity.
You have people who stay hereand aren't interested in
politics, but yet they'reimpacted by all of these things
and it's a higher percentage ofthat kind of I don't want to say
checked out, but in encouragedto not participate, almost right
.
For a variety of culturalreasons, but there's a big piece
of that population here, soit's a.
(30:49):
It's a for folks like me andAdam it's.
It makes our work harderbecause we got to motivate more
people to pay attention and saythis impacts you, and then the
mentality is like no, like I'mfrom Tennessee, but you're going
to live here for 10 years.
You know, like after you retire,you're gonna be here for a long
time and they're like, yeah,but I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back
to the home town, you know, andso they just checked out, and
(31:12):
so it's hard and not in a badway, that's fine, I was the same
, but uh, now I want to grabpeople by their uniform collar
and go.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
We need you, man.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, we need y'all yeah, uh, everybody on deck
absolutely and we're just gonnawrap it up right there.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Thank you for tuning in for another episode of Left
Face.
My name is Adam Gillard For myco-host, dick Wilkinson.
Thanks for tuning in and we'llcatch you next week.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Left Face.
I am your co-host, adam Gillard.
Not with me today is my co-host, dick Wilkinson.
We were able to cut an episodeof Justice with Jax with Jax
Armadillas a couple weeks ago,and we will bring you the first
part of that interview right now.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good afternoon everybody.
This is Justice with Jax,season 3, episode 4.
Once again, we have aphenomenal human being for you,
and once again I'm here toremind you today is Friday, june
20th 2025, and that's one year,10 months, 20 days or 690 days
(00:41):
that the case Advent, that is,versus City of Colorado Springs
was filed and represented by theAmerican Civil Liberties Union
of Colorado.
So I'm back with anotherepisode to share some of what
that journey is looking like andwhere we're at right now.
But first I want to pass themic to my wonderful guest today
(01:01):
and let them introducethemselves.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Hi, jax.
Thanks for inviting me overhere.
My name is Adam Gillard, I amthe chair of the El Paso County
Progressive Veterans, andjoining us also is my co-host on
the left face, dick Wilkinson.
We're going to set him up realquick here.
Like always, dick likes to showup a couple minutes late.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
He's the talent.
I have everything ready for mewhen I get there.
Yeah, I try.
I'm sorry I don't have yourorder.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I've got one over here for you.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, so my name is Adam Gillard.
I run the Progressive Veterans.
We do a lot of communityactivities around town, helping
out just wherever we can Peoplereach out and we help.
Got involved with 5051, doing alot of the planning for
protests and stuff downtown.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thank you for that important work.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
It's a lot of fun.
Last weekend was such a goodvibe downtown for having 10,000
to 12,000 people.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Seriously yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
There was one small incident but everybody like was
just happy to be there, that youknow they were, you know
dancing and happy just to be outdoing something so joy is
resistance.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We talk about that on this show.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
So yeah, not giving into like the.
The violent rhetoric is huge.
You know you don't give themthose wins by being a peaceful
movement, um, so yeah, yeah,it's been a whole lot of fun, a
lot of great learningopportunities, meeting tons of
great people.
And then, yeah, me and Dick doLeft Face, giving a veteran's
political perspective on what'sgoing on in the world and kind
(02:37):
of bringing it back to the localscene here.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well done.
Well, do you want to take abeat to introduce yourself as
well, Dick?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Sure, absolutely.
Thanks for inviting us over tobe guests on the show and do a
crossover episode.
My name is Dick Wilkinson andI'm retired from the Army after
20 years.
I retired back in 2019.
And as soon as I retired, thatwas my opportunity to get into
politics.
I ran for state Senate down inNew Mexico, where I was
(03:06):
stationed at the time when Iretired and had been in the
community for about five yearswhen I separated.
So I decided that was going tobe my long-term home for a while
, so that would be where I didpolitics, ran that race for a
few months, backed out of it.
Didn't run it to the end, butthat led me into a lot more
engagement with the VeteransCaucus in New Mexico and that
really opened my eyes to how youcan make traction happen at the
(03:28):
state level and how that canstill have real, genuine impact
on military members and theirfamilies.
So that's something I've beenpassionate about over the last
few years and it's really myfocus for political work.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Glad to hear that it sounds like.
Another thing we talk about onthis show is community building
and there's lots of layers tothat and there's lots of layers
to that and there's lots of waysto do that.
And it is super cool for thisto be the first time I get to
collab with another force doingthe good work here in El Paso
County by really bringing outlocal voices, local perspectives
(03:59):
and keeping it actually reallyrelevant to current events so
people stay knowledgeable itactually really relevant to
current events.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
So people stay knowledgeable.
Yeah, yeah, you know,especially, you know, when we
have such should be nationallevel huge topics, like you know
, the folks that got, you know,kidnapped and that are still
missing and our governmentofficials are silent on, like we
talk about it pretty much everyweek.
You know we try to keep them,you know, in the cycle because
it is absolutely tragic andhorrific that it's already
passed those 80 plus people justgone.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
Yeah, and their family members are the only ones
that understand the impact and,as we've talked about on our
show, they're also some of theleast well positioned to do
anything about that impact.
And so the you forget about thepeople who are missing, you
forget about their familymembers that are impacted by
that because the origin isColorado Springs.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Right.
And so that's the case wherethe ACLU is representing myself
and the Chinook Center, who youall may have heard of, because
they're another organizing forcefor progressives here in
Colorado Springs as a nonprofit.
They're another organizingforce for progressives here in
Colorado Springs as a nonprofit,and so we're still waiting for
an opinion from the US Court ofAppeals for the Tenth Circuit.
So hurry up and wait, as myfriends from the military
(05:34):
understand.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Oh yeah, For sure yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
That's a prominent feeling and this was like a
violation of the search or thearguments are really uh some
first amendment grounds, butprominently focused on the
fourth amendment, which is theright to privacy.
Right and so what?
Uh, the key, like peace, peopleshould take away from that is
(05:57):
there are really, reallydangerous warrants that the
police filed when they accusedme of a crime of which I was
never convicted, and thesewarrants that the police filed
when they accused me of a crimeof which I was never convicted.
And these warrants are soegregious that, were they
allowed to stand as part of ourlaw, we really would be
endangering democracy and thatright that we have to privacy
the fourth in the Bill of Rightsand, like I said, it's
(06:19):
connected to the First Amendmentas well, because when I was
accused, arrested and theninvestigated where they took all
of my electronic devices withsearch warrants, we were in the
midst of a housing justiceprotest and so it was the
protest activity it was thestory, and this was during the
(06:39):
big BLM movement too, right?
Actually, it was the summerafter that.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Summer after okay.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It was August 2021.
So we're coming up on a fewyears here now, and so that's
why one of the big thingsbecause it involves the first
amendment for me it was likeokay, well, I'm going to talk
about this because clearlythey're trying to oppress and
make you be quiet, Right.
And what I've been dealing withlately is I really don't enjoy
(07:05):
at all how the case is aforeshadowing of what has been
going on, Right.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So, as you're talking , I was thinking about just how
they use this area as a test bedto do things like this, like
raid a nightclub and stealpeople illegally wiretap folks.
You know illegally wiretappedfolks, because the general
population here is so pro.
You know police force andeverything that they're blind to
(07:31):
like.
You know you need somerestrictions and things like
that Some balance.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
We're going to talk about that dynamic for sure,
because it's something, like yousaid, I think is a part of the
reputation of where we liveright, el Paso County, colorado.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah, it's a test bed for folks to run these things
to see what they can get awaywith really.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And just like you did , because we're going to talk
about the case you filed.
But for better or for worse, wecould dive in on another
episode but for better or forworse-.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I think we're up to like six episodes that we got to
record now.
That's right, because, forbetter or for worse, it takes.
I think we're up to like sixepisodes that we got to record
now.
That's right, because there'sso many rabbit holes you can go
down.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah, we just keep diving.
I love it, but you, in ourdemocracy, identify that there's
, unfortunately, like an onus onthe individual right to keep
the government accountable atcertain points and so that's
really what this case is about.
That's really what this case isabout.
And we have people who areorganizations, who joined us on
what is a growing surveillancestate right, which now we're
(08:46):
hearing about even more, when wehave law enforcement at the
federal level straight upabducting people, and so I'm so
glad I'm oblivious to socialmedia I've dialed it down
substantially.
I'm off almost everything.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, I am as well and I yeah, I, I appreciate it.
I agree, I got off of facebook,uh, man, like four years ago,
and talk about not looking backelection day 2024, uh after.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
well, the day after, that's when I was like, nope,
I'm good.
Facebook, and that's theinteresting part, and adam, when
I were talking about this alittle bit, is just all these
platforms that are out there andthere are people who are
stepping up, both trying to keepthe government accountable,
doing what we're doing, bringingvoice to a lot of issues in our
community, and so at this point, I think, with our case, we are
(09:42):
hoping that the context of thetimes just really underscores
how important the aclu'sarguments are in this case, and
so there's just been so muchgoing on and I did want to take
a beat.
you know the spectrum of thewhat I often call the chaos era.
Right is that we've been soldto recent political
assassinations and I wanted tomake sure to say their names
(10:02):
right which which, melissa andMark Hortman, were assassinated
in the state of Minnesotabecause Melissa was a state
legislator and state Senator.
John Hoffman and his wife,yvette, were also shot and are
in recovery, and so, mm, hmm, itis a lot to process these days,
(10:23):
but we can't not talk about itright, right, and I mean that
news came out right before westarted our big protest.
The no kings yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
And so you know, talking to the marshals
beforehand, you know everybody'sworried.
You know you never know whenthe next one's going to be, and
we saw it in Salt Lake City.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
In my mind it put a real weird tone on like safety
around the whole day yeah.
And not because I waspersonally like expecting to
participate in anything, butjust nationwide.
I was like man talk aboutunease and like opportunity for
copycat situations or you know,just just confusion causes
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Right, yeah, and that was what.
I felt on Saturdayurday morningwas like oh, this is a chance
for other people to do thingsinside this confusion right and
thankfully, this is why we haveto do it, though right, and I
respect people who have the fearand push through it, and I
would never diminish someone umtheir opinion is, you know, it's
better for me to stay at homeright like to each their own.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
If you feel that gunned down politician that
might make you want to stay homethat day, I understand that.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
100 and that's the point, right, and I also another
is the point another.
The fear is the point, thechaos is the point.
Another layer to it that Iwould love for you all to chime
in on is that you know,especially with a veteran's
perspective, this commander inchief is really using incredibly
terrible ways as a form ofdistraction for their number of
(11:52):
failures on, you know, asubstantial, substantive, like
policy work that's the othertopic we talk about every week.
And the feint right.
How are they showing us?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
one hand but punching with the other.
We talk about that every weekand it's always projecting
something.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
And LA paid the price .
Who else is going to pay theprice?
Speaker 3 (12:14):
And I guess the appeals court just gave Trump
back control of the NationalGuard With restrictions right.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
I know the courts are going back and forth real hard
on this, one every few days.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I figured it will make the Supreme Court
eventually.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
I read the headline this morning that said controls
back.
You know like basically he cando what he wants, but I didn't
get to read about therestrictions because it was just
like on screen, yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, but it's still horrific when.
Any amount of yeah, you stillhave like the 700 active duty
marines or 700, was that thenumber that are there waiting.
And marines are good at theirjob and their job is to shut
their humanity off and getcontrol of the situation.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
So you could understand why people will be
scared absolutely yeah, so likejust having them there they're.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Those are dogs waiting to attack right now.
It's an escalation yes,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
A show of force against our people, citizens,
our citizens, other Americans,which is horrifying, I know
folks that are there too, andit's such a small area of what's
going on there also.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
I always like to mention that it's such a small
area.
It's like one little cornerintersection where you know they
ordered.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Like about two blocks ?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, they ordered like cars to come up.
You know, they did thedriverless car order like an
Uber type thing, so thedriverless cars pulled up and
then that's when they lit themon fire, took their pictures and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
In this media environment, all it takes is one
photo, one GIF, and the waythat it spreads like a virus,
right?
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And there's so many complicated layers to it.
Because the politicalassassinations?
The guy disguised himself aspolice officer.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Way to set that off right and he went to different
homes too.
He had a huge list right, andthen there's always going to be
people criticizing the way lawenforcement handled it too.
Right.
And so then we're seeing allthese political, democratic
political officials beingaccused of assault and arrested
and stuff my house that theyaccused me for second degree
(14:18):
felony, attempted aggravatedassault, because one of them
charged the crowd right and Idropped my bike like what the
hell?
You coming for me?
And um, because it landed nextto him, they were able to accuse
me that I had like lifted it upand thrown it and tried to um
(14:40):
assault him, which was never thecase yeah, and so thankfully, I
was ultimately never convictedof a crime, but that gave them
the impetus to confiscate all myelectronic devices.
Leave me in a total blackoutbecause that's what happens in
today's world, when you don'thave devices and leave me with
the very direct message of sitdown, shut up little girl, you
(15:02):
be quiet.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
shame on you this thing is happening, what you're
afraid of.
It's happening when I give youyour phone back.
On you yeah, yeah, um, thisthing is happening, what you're
afraid of it's happening when Igive you your phone back.
You say thank you, yeah, so Igotta I have to offer this
detail because it's relevant.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
I worked for the nsa for my entire career oh wow,
yeah, I'm a surveillance guylet's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
That's what this conversation is about.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
He's like.
I'm well aware of what you'retalking about.
Like Sam, is that you?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I call my FBI agent Sam, or that's the joke on the
internet, right, yeah, yeah,who's watching Gotcha?
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Yeah, no, I just wanted to offer it.
You know, because I don't findmyself in these arguments
anymore.
I guess maybe I was cared aboutit more when I had the uniform
on.
I don't know, sure, or peoplearen't as tuned in on the topic
as much anymore either, but Iget into a position of what I'm
sure is staunch defense, butit's defense based on my
(15:54):
firsthand knowledge that thefederal government, specifically
, and then the intelligencecommunity Let me get even more
specific, not talking about theFBI.
Fbi is a member of theintelligence community, but it's
man.
They don't walk or talk like aduck.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
And that's domestic right.
Right, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Everyone else.
If there's 18 members, 17 ofthem are externally focused.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And then one of them can do stuff on the inside.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
So you, know who we don't really play nice with.
On the 17 others the FBI.
Because they have a totallydifferent set of rules a totally
different title authority andperspective too.
Yeah, when I see a nail, I knowwhat hammer to hit it with.
They don't see the same nail oruse the same hammer, and so
there's a lot of um, wait, wait,wait.
Why is the FBI asking aboutthis Right?
(16:38):
Like that would be the initialresponse of like this is foreign
intelligence.
Why do they care about thisRight?
That's my first thing.
Is, if I saw the FBI named insome list of emails or some you
know distribution list, I'd sayI don't produce things that they
can consume.
Why are they in this list?
Right, and that's me defending,saying even that, far back,
(16:59):
people like me, which is tens ofthousands of people that are
doing this type of surveillance,know hey, I know what my
boundaries are, I know what myright and left limits are, and I
know what US citizens are andwhat they're not.
And not only do I know it, Ihave to prove that I know it
every single year to maintain myclearance, that I understand
the difference between anAmerican citizen, an American
(17:21):
organization or US entity andwhatever is everything else.
I know the difference and if Iget information that crosses
that line in either direction, Iknow exactly how to handle that
Right, how to legally disclosethat there was an accidental
collection, how to destroy it,how to report that information
got into the wrong database.
Like hey, this is only supposedto have foreign stuff.
(17:42):
But I see some you know 719phone numbers, whoa huge red
flag.
I push the button and then Ithrow my hands up and say stop,
something bad happened.
I'm just one of 10,000 peoplethat know how to do that, and so
we understood the limits andthe laws very carefully from a
signals, intelligence,surveillance and using that
(18:03):
equipment perspective, and wehad the genuine fear of God in
us that you do it wrong.
Somebody will know.
There's oversight on oversightand even if you think you've
turned this on and you've doneyour little sneaky stuff and
then you turned it off andyou're being shady now someone
knows.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
That's fascinating and you might appreciate this.
That insight is so valuablebecause, um one of the arguments
, of course there's, you know, awhole set that the aclu is
making, but one of them is thatthe fbi has been saying they
want to keep the entire digitalfingerprint of my life that they
confiscated because they tookall my electronics right, even
(18:42):
my, my hard drive with emo musicfrom high school.
Yes, they found every singleone that they could and made a
copy.
And so now they're saying theACLU is arguing that I was never
convicted of a crime, so whyare you retaining?
Speaker 3 (18:59):
that you need to destroy that or return that.
Yeah, return it, because I havelike 10 laptops from my
lifetime that I need to pullstuff off of If.
I get the FBI to do that for me, then give it to me on a thumb
drive.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
That's some taxpayer use of funds.
That is a positive.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I'm with you on that.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Well, that's a good point.
Maybe I can.
I'll jot that down.
That's why I was really.
Oh, come on, if you identifyright, it's progressive veterans
(19:43):
, because that's one of yourlinks, right?
yeah it's like so don't want toput words in your mouth, but I
think that's amazing becausethat's a viewpoint for residents
here.
Where are?
We have five different militaryinstallations in this county,
so that's going to be a relevantviewpoint to our community.
So I think could you tellpeople a little bit about you
(20:03):
know the origin story of thewhen and how Left Face came
about.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
So I ended up getting into nonprofit work and taking
over Progressive Vets in like 23, I think.
And shortly after, I think, youcame in and we kind of met and
just talked and kind of wentseparate ways.
And then I kind of stumbledaround, did some other things
with the progressive vets.
You know, had a campaign forcd5 there.
(20:29):
Um had to put the podcast kindof on hold during that time.
Just you know how much time ittakes to do these things I do.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Technically, I'm doing the opposite for now right
being running a campaign and apodcast?
Speaker 3 (20:42):
yeah, it's crazy how easy it is to do it.
But but it is time consumingespecially when you're learning.
So like I had to put it all kindof on the side while I did the
campaigning and you know we dida lot as the progressive vets
during the campaign to get youknow signs out and have events
around town and you know, lobbyfor the cannabis initiatives
(21:03):
that we were a part of andthings like that.
So my old podcast just kind offell off and I needed to get it
going again for the group andkeep the community educated.
But I didn't want to do onewhere it's just like an
infomercial for somebody.
I loved having guests on andtalking about what they were
doing in their books and thingslike that.
But at the end of the day Ireally want to just educate our
(21:26):
community.
And kind of randomly Dickreached out and we started
talking again and I'm prettyprogressive.
I've hugged at least threetrees today.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Today so far.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
He's not done.
He's not done.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Yeah, I'm not done.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
So I'm a pretty progressive guy and and uh dick
does a good job of kind ofputting a different perspective
on myself, because I don't likebeing in my own echo chamber
either and just kind of hearingmy own opinion same, you know.
So he kind of gives me adifferent perspective on things,
um, being more of a more oflike a polis democrat, you know,
libertarian, um, you know stillvery much.
(22:06):
You know capitalist free marketbut cares about people, you
know.
So, uh, uh, yeah, but when youreached out we started doing it
and it's, you know, we've beenkind of rocking and rolling with
it since then yeah, um.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yeah, I mean, I met adam when he was running his
campaign and, um, I felt, thefirst time I met him I said man,
why are you running againstthis like stalwart forever?
Republican man.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Like I feel bad that.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
You know, I was like oh, that sounds terrible, you
know.
And then I walked away fromthat meeting and I was like, I
just like pissed on his shoesand I feel bad.
It's a wind out of his sails.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Candidates are used to that, I think.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
We're not close enough for me to go this is a
terrible idea.
But I was like why are you?
Speaker 3 (22:52):
doing that.
I felt so pretty and he's justan ugly son of a bitch.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
And so then after that, I was like I need to stay
in touch with him, Not justbecause I want to apologize, but
because, actually, because Ithought about it more and I said
you know what I actually wantto?
I want to stick close tosomebody who says I don't care
if he's got 10 terms under hisbelt, I'm going to take her on
it anyway, because my ideas areso different than his that I
want people to hear my ideas,and if they like them, then we
(23:17):
got something to work with.
And I said you know what?
That that's my same mode as faras politics goes, and so I want
to work on whatever Adam'sworking on.
So here we are.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
That's great.
I can appreciate that We'vetalked about that on this show
too is that there is a valueagain in raising the information
, raising your voice,communicating with people,
because when you're campaigning,I think if you're doing it the
right way, you're communitybuilding as well.
And you're connecting right.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
That's how your show came about and the goodness of
any kind of grassroots movementcomes in one getting your
candidate elected.
But then too, we like thenetwork of people that gets,
I'll say, left behind, if youwill, right From that grassroots
effort.
So you used, you know, you getgroups like, I'm sure,
indivisible, and 50 51 are bothgroups that if you look back far
(24:05):
enough in their history it wassome other candidate's program
or a nonprofit that wasinvesting in a candidate and
promoting them, and then itcaught fire and turned into
something else.
So most of the really impactfulsocial programs oftentimes are
started from those type of like.
We got it like you say,community rally, and then if the
(24:25):
momentum's there, and then theeffort stays right.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, one thing that I've really appreciated, coming,
you know, from active duty or Iwas a reservist on AGR order,
so I was active duty but comingfrom that community and back
into like civilian life is howall this stuff has always been
going on.
And people like in the communityare so dedicated and put so
much time and effort and justthemselves into building these
(24:51):
things.
Now that I'm able to kind of bea part of that, it's just wild
to me to be surrounded by peoplewho kind of think like me and
just want to hug trees sometimes.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You know I agree completely on the whole, as we
are legally bound to notparticipate in politics that we
knew what it was.
We knew what the impact was, weunderstood how it impacted our
own lives.
But it's like I grew upwatching the Dallas Cowboys.
It's like when I joined theArmy.
If they said you can neverwatch a Cowboys game again until
you retire, you can't go to thestadium, you can't watch the TV
(25:26):
, you just know football exists.
And 20 years from now, you getto watch a Cowboys game and then
you'll find out all about theplayers and all the games they
won and lost.
And you'll get the wholedownload and you'll find out
about all of it.
But that's 20 years from now.
Between now and then, don'tworry about football.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
It doesn't exist.
And our ballots.
My ballot my local informationwas for Arizona because there
was no taxes right, so I wasvoting for.
Speaker 4 (25:51):
Mark Kelly so.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
I didn't care about this area at all.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
Same.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
So you just don't get involved with local stuff,
really, yeah.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
It's a discourager.
It's attractive yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
And it's just.
I mean unfortunate.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
Which is now that I was talking about wanting to do
veterans initiatives, as I nowcan watch the Cowboys again,
right.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I want to play the game.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
right, I want to wear the shirt and I want to tell
people about it, right.
But I also want to be able togo get these military family
members, especially maybe notthe active duty person
themselves, but the familymembers.
I want them to not fall intothat trap of well, I don't live
in this County, like really.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yeah, cause it's going to affect you, you're here
this county.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Like really yeah, because it's gonna affect you
three years.
Your kids are here in school,aren't they?
Yeah right, you know, yeah,yeah, if you register to vote
here, you could run for are yougonna buy a house here?
You could run for school boardand help your kids any of those
things right.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
So, whether they're you know just any level of
engagement, or even justthinking about voting, or blow
your mind, register to votewhere you live.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
That's crazy so you don't have to register to vote
back from every time, every timeI talk to a representative and
democrats aren't a fan ofhanding back, you know tax money
, but I I harp on that like weneed to get rid of that state
income tax for active duty folksbecause especially in this area
where we got so much air force,space force, they're a lot more
progressive than the army folks.
So I think it would be a netpositive like at the voting
(27:06):
station for if they did that wewould lose some tax revenue.
But I don't think a whole lotin the bigger picture.
But yeah, I try to push thatevery time.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
That's a good point, because there are so many
nuances to active duty militarylife that people don't even know
about, because the militaryitself is what percentage of our
country?
Speaker 4 (27:26):
It's usually less than 1%, less than 1 percent and
one percent, and that partseven percent is veterans.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah right, right.
And so I thankfully got aunique perspective myself, um,
being in senator michaelbennett's office and being the
military and veteransconstituent advocate for a while
, and so that was fascinating tome because, like you said, adam
, I would observe differencesamong, maybe, the branches, and
this, you know, what I would sayis something I really respect
(27:54):
this commitment to being I guess, objective is the word to not
engaging because, like you said,they know the commitment they
made right, and yet you knowthere are some instances where
(28:20):
you're active duty and you mayneed to Right, helped us every
time like the staffers thestaffers that work in the
offices, especially when webring military issues um, they
always bend over backwards tohelp us out.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
It was usually pay issues and things like that, um,
and it's amazing how you know aphone call from you know a
congressional office that blewmy mind witnessing that.
Yeah, yeah, it's like on thecaller id, and like it just
starts flowing, like everybodystarts flowing no sense, and all
I had to do was write it justlike that.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You're asking her to prove a negative on the
senator's letterhead and withina 24 hour period.
I think even she was back ontrack and that was both chilling
but also reaffirming in that,ok, like who you elect matters
because they're supposed toserve you and that includes
(29:29):
constituent services caseworkespecially the federal level.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah, that should be a huge, huge thing for anybody
that's front for office years.
Always talk about you knowcasework management, because
you're going to have a lot ofconstituents.
So, like you know, sevenpercent we say are veterans, but
here in our community it's 15there you go so like we're even
high for the state of colorado,because you know, colorado
because, you know, colorado kindof falls along the national
average.
But yeah, yeah, we have a huge,huge contingency here that uh
(29:55):
should have a lot more inputinto this community because
you're a quarter of thecommunity there's that mental
vacuum of like I don't dopolitics so I mean me and adam
are.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
I'm not because we're democrats or progressive or
anything, but we're theexception as far as veterans
that find the chance to.
You know, watch Cowboys againand they say man, I haven't
watched them in 20 years.
I don't know who any of theteam members are.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I'm not that interested.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
I don't care, I got my farm I got the house that I
wanted to buy out in themountains and like I'm far
enough away that the last thingI care about is who's in office,
Right yeah.
And that's pervasive here.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Right.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Yeah, so you have people who move here and don't
feel ownership over thecommunity.
You have people who stay hereand aren't interested in
politics, but yet they'reimpacted by all of these things
and it's a higher percentage ofthat kind of I don't want to say
checked out, but in encouragedto not participate, almost right
.
For a variety of culturalreasons, but there's a big piece
of that population here, soit's a.
(30:49):
It's a for folks like me andAdam it's.
It makes our work harderbecause we got to motivate more
people to pay attention and saythis impacts you, and then the
mentality is like no, like I'mfrom Tennessee, but you're going
to live here for 10 years.
You know, like after you retire,you're gonna be here for a long
time and they're like, yeah,but I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back
to the home town, you know, andso they just checked out, and
(31:12):
so it's hard and not in a badway, that's fine, I was the same
, but uh, now I want to grabpeople by their uniform collar
and go.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
We need you, man.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, we need y'all yeah, uh, everybody on deck
absolutely and we're just gonnawrap it up right there.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Thank you for tuning in for another episode of Left
Face.
My name is Adam Gillard For myco-host, dick Wilkinson.
Thanks for tuning in and we'llcatch you next week.
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