March 28, 2025 • 40 mins
Two military veterans with extensive security clearance experience take you inside the shocking reality of the recent classified information leak over Signal. What makes this breach particularly disturbing isn't just what was shared, but how fundamentally it violates core security principles that every cleared professional understands.
Adam and Dick break down the critical difference between commercial encryption apps and actual classified systems: "In classified systems, we own both ends and the pipe that connects them. With Signal, you don't own either can or the string." They share personal experiences where even minor classification errors resulted in confiscated equipment and extensive investigations, highlighting the severity of sharing operational details about Israeli strikes through unclassified channels.
The conversation captures a disturbing irony - Pete Hegseth stood in the Oval Office claiming "we're clean on OPSEC" just before his security breach became public. The hosts examine how administration officials have created confusion through contradictory messaging about whether the information was classified rather than addressing the fundamental security violations.
Beyond the data spill, the podcast explores the challenging landscape for Democratic organizing and strategic resistance. They discuss the tension between youth energy and experienced activism, using the powerful metaphor of transforming "thrust into vector" - channeling generalized frustration into focused, effective action. Unlike the Heritage Foundation's multi-decade strategy, progressive movements often lack sustained, coordinated long-term planning.
Ready to move beyond frustration to action? The hosts provide concrete suggestions for getting involved locally while emphasizing that effective resistance requires marathon-like commitment through the next two years. As one host powerfully notes, "The freedoms we fought for can disappear with one simple statute change." This episode combines national security expertise with a plea for principled, sustained civic engagement.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to Left Face.
(00:01):
This is the Pikes Peak Region'sVeterans Podcast.
We talk about political thingsfrom the federal level all the
way down to the local level.
My name is Adam Gillard, yourco-host here with Dick Wilkinson
.
How are you doing, Dick?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning Adam and our listeners.
I'm doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Man.
It is a non-stop rotating ideasof conversations for this show
right now.
We just sat down and had a20-minute conversation with like
100 topics.
Uh, there's just so many thingsgoing on.
Right now, the first three-hourepisode yeah, right um, I think
let's just stay right on the uh.
What we're just talking aboutwith uh.
(00:39):
Everybody knows by now thatthat this data spill classified
information being passed outover Signal like an active
strike.
He gave times, dates, equipment.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Explicit details.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, it was everything in the classification
guide that you're not supposedto put out over these systems.
Yes, and he put it out overthese systems.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And then, even if those details are all disparate,
and then you aggregate themright.
There's that aggregationconcept, right Of like, even if
each sentence itself is notclassified when you say all five
of them in a row that becomesclassified Right, and so that's
kind of what got Hillary introuble with her server.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That was the classified information.
It was aggregating it togetherand consolidating it and putting
it together.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
This was straight up.
Like you don't need toaggregate this.
Yeah, this is mission details.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Man and we were just talking about where I was just
kind of mentioning this is whyit's important to have people
that understand more than justthe superficial aspects of our
military and what the wordencryption means and things like
that.
But, like, when we encrypt data, it goes across, it goes
through.
You know different.
You know encryption devices.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We have.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We have our own lines .
Things like that Signal is nota safe, a safe place to be
sending that data.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's not.
And you know we say it's gotend-to-end encryption and it's
got high-quality encryption.
Okay, that's great.
But the system breaks down when, as I had mentioned, the
concept of most classifiedcommunication protocols is that
you own the device, meaning thehandset, the cell phone or the
landline that's on the desk, andthen the people on the other
(02:22):
end are also cleared and ownthat special equipment as well.
Now you got equipment on bothends.
Think of those as the cans onthe string from the old you know
old timey phone line and thenthe string in the middle.
We own that as well forclassified systems.
So we own both ends and thepipe that they talk on signal
works on any device in the worldand goes over classic internet
(02:48):
and unclassified you knowuncontrolled means to get from
here to there.
Yeah, so you don't own eithercan or the string in this
situation and you're taking theword of an open source project
that says but it's airtight,brother, and I want to say like
I can't believe it, right, butthen I find out that there's
other sectors of government andother parts of the government
(03:10):
that have I don't want to go asfar as saying authorized use,
but said consider it, and thatscares the hell out of me.
Now not for classifiedconversations, but for
government conversations thatneed to be transmitted with an
extra layer of security.
And that's really what they'retrying to say is don't talk
(03:30):
about.
Even like Pete Hicks says, justtravel itinerary should be
classified.
That would be something thatmaybe, if it wasn't classified
or you had to talk about onestaffer to another, hey, we
changed the plan, we're notgoing to get there till five
o'clock, we were going to bethere at two o'clock, we were
going to be there two o'clock.
Like that little detail thatsounds like what signal maybe
should be for, yeah, is thatlive moment to moment, not
(03:51):
classified, but sensitivemovement, right, that kind of
stuff.
Yeah, not warheads right?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
um, yeah, it's just so crazy.
You know, working in the in theclassified world for so long,
you know I had my SEI for a verylong time and there was leaks
and spills and things wouldhappen.
And it's funny to hear theWhite House has spent on this
where they're like well, the SECdef says it's not classified.
Yeah, he can say that.
He can 100% say that becausehe's the classified authority
(04:20):
yeah it doesn't mean it's right.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It doesn't mean that's the proper protocol, yes,
so like, yes, it's the legalauthority to break protocol,
right, but then we've got tostill admit that protocol was
broken, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
There was one time we were working in a mission and
there was a four star general.
He identified the location,like to the news, and it was a
classified location and all of asudden that became unclassified
because you know it's like.
Well, there it is yeah, it'sout there yes, it is
unclassified now, but it shouldnot have ever been.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And having a reporter on the chain that is just so
inept of them why I mean if theAtlantic as a publication and
this reporter as a person arejust public enemy number one to
Donald Trump?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
why?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
would anybody in his staff have that dude's contact
information?
Like if you got it fromsomebody and they're like, if
you ever need so-and-so'scontact info, here it is.
You're like, I will never needto talk to that guy.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
At least the Watergate scandal took effort.
They had to figure things outand actually investigate this
journalism.
This guy just handed this onthe platter.
He was like here's a scandalfor you.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The Daily Show did a joke on that.
They did a skit where there wasthese two reporters that were
supposed to go out and, you know, gumshoot their way through the
case.
And then the one guy he gets ablip on his phone.
He's like, oh, oh, no, don'tworry about it.
And she's like, well, no.
Then one of their sources in atrench coat comes in and he
(06:02):
tells them some detail and he'slike, yeah, I already knew that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And then he reads the whole thing to them.
I already knew that.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It was actually pretty funny.
That proves the point, and Imean the people who have made
these mistakes, which is a wholeother ripple in this raisin is
the way that there's no.
Get your story straight, youknow.
Get coherent.
(06:30):
You all could have an 18 persondeep text message chain with
each other, but you can't doone-to-one calls and be like,
hey, what are you going to saywhen you go on tv later?
You know so they're all likeit's classified, it's not
classified.
It happened, it didn't happentext message, not a text message
.
War plan, not a war plan.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Yeah, and that's just theirplan is to get into the weeds of
, like, the semantics of it allsplit the hairs all the way down
until it doesn't matter, right?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
if you just get frustrated, like, okay, that's
never mind, yeah, never mind,that's it For sure.
And man, I used to be a TulsiGabbard fan and I was still a
Tulsi Gabbard fan after shebecame a Republican.
I said, all right, maybe she'skind of like me, maybe she can
(07:21):
play both sides of the fence andsay something useful in both
rooms and bring value.
I think she can bring value toalmost anything she does.
Right?
That's what I wanted to believeuntil like a year ago, right,
and then, ever since then, it'sjust she, just.
I guess once you get intoTrump's orbit you realize you're
, you know you can't get out ofit, basically right, and so
(07:42):
assimilate.
Or why did you even come here?
You know so Well, so what?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
repercussions can there be right now for folks
like her, even Hegseth himself,that perjured themselves, you
know, in front of Congress youknow they can't say that there's
no classified when the NationalSecurity Councils came out and
said there was, you know, solike they immediately contradict
themselves.
And you know, under all theperjury of themselves, what kind
of consequences can there be ifwe're people in those roles
(08:10):
Cause they're not getting fired.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I don't think there's going to be anything.
You know and this was I saw aguy on the soon as the news
broke he was on LinkedIn.
He's like oh, is going tohappen, and that's going to
happen.
And here's all the rules thatwere broken.
And I just said, man, nobody'sgetting in trouble over this,
you know because it was one.
It's too many and this is one ofthose.
Like there was like 10 cabinetmembers in it.
(08:35):
You know, right, there are 18people on the chain.
Like 10 of them were the mostsenior people in the government,
right, and so you can't firethem all.
You're not going to scapegoatone of them.
If that was going to happen, itwould have happened within the
first like two hours.
They would have been like thisguy under the bus, here he comes
.
It's too early in the game Ifanybody had any other.
Here's the thing if thishappened, like six months from
(08:56):
now, somebody on that chainwould have been on the bad
graces of Donald Trump, so theywould have had a wrong little
rub last week.
They would have said somethingin the news that he didn't like.
They would have said I don'tthink this plan is working, or
something, and that would havebeen off with their head kind of
situation right, but it's soearly in the game right now that
nobody's in a position of beinglike with the dunce cap on
(09:18):
right, and so, because theydon't have the dunce cap on, it
wasn't clear, cut right.
But if there was anybody thatwas in a spot, that could have
been standing on the ledgescapegoat Right there, bam.
But because there is noscapegoat, it's like the plan.
That's what's leading to thisincoherent messaging where each
person is trying to cover theirown assets but then, at the same
(09:39):
time, acknowledge that ithappened and then just blow
smokescreen about well, it'sclassified, not classified,
authorized.
And then just blow smokescreenabout well, it's classified, not
classified.
You know, authorized, notauthorized.
This was on my phone when I gotit, when I became the CIA
director.
Okay, bro, your job is todecide if that's a good idea or
not.
That's literally your job.
(10:00):
You authorize or unauthorizethe use of communication
channels.
That is on you.
You can't say the last directorgave me a phone with this thing
on it, or the staffers thatwere here after that person left
said this is how we've beendoing business.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
That doesn't matter.
You're the director.
That just goes to show they'reunqualified for it.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It does yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Another thing that I want to point out that's kind of
comical about the situation isthe day before Hegseth was in
the Oval Office talking abouthow we used to be an
embarrassment, but no longer.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
And then it comes out that he's doing this shit and
just blabbing ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
We're clean on OPSEC yeah, we're clean on OPSEC.
Yeah, what an ironic, justbeautiful irony right Like
poetry couldn't be written moreelegantly.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
What Pete Hexeth?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
said to the journalist in the classified,
unclassified, open source chatwe're clean on OPSEC.
I mean, jokes write themselvessometimes right.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
One thing that bugged me about that meeting in the
Oval Office is that he had aflag as his pocket handkerchief
thing.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Oh yeah, he's got those veteran squares, pocket
squares, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
And I'm pretty sure Title 10 of the flag code says
don't do stupid shit like that.
Don't wear the flag as anaccoutrement.
Oh, as clothing yeah asclothing and as a.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Maybe I don't know.
I mean, I didn't notice it, soit didn't catch my eye.
Yeah, at first I thought he waswearing his military ribbon,
that's why I had to zoom in.
I was like no way is he wearingmilitary ribbons in New England
but I wouldn't put that pasthim either.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
But yeah, so yeah, I don't know, it was just the dude
got drunk that night.
I guarantee you.
I guarantee you he got drunkthat night.
That's a whole other storyright there.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
When I very first saw the story, before the real
weight of it had become exposed,my comment on it was the text
messages were you know,especially with the emojis and
the different things.
I was like man, this soundsjust like literally like people
putting together a frat party.
You know it's Saturday at 11 amand you're?
I was like man, this soundsjust like literally like people
putting together a frat party.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It's Saturday at 11 am and you're like hey man?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
whose place are we having it at?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Who's getting beer?
Who's getting the girls?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Who's getting the pizza, and like, who are we
going to invite?
And then they're just hittingeach other up with emojis like
score picture of the keg, fist,pump the american flag, you know
.
So that's that's what it feltlike to me, right?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
that's what the conversation felt like, and
actually that's fine if that'show the staff communicates, but
if they do that in classifiedchannels, right, we were going
on a mission somewhere and thelocation was classified, and
somebody accidentally leaked, uhlike a mwr mission, that we
were going on and that wasenough to to like locate where
(12:51):
we were going to be sure.
And so, uh, all of ourcomputers got confiscated oh,
yeah, like yeah that's howserious this stuff is.
Like we start talking abouttimes and locations and like
where our troops are going to be, like that all of our like
hundreds of computers gotconfiscated just to make sure
that everything got wiped clean,and things like that.
These types of errors need tohave some repercussions.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Data spill.
I've been through the samething.
Where it's usually it wassomething that should have been
fully top secret ends up onzipper.
That happened a lot.
So, you're still in aclassified channel, but you got
a lot of people in zipper thatare not authorized to see the
other stuff.
So when I was deployed inafghanistan seemed like that
happened three or four timeswhen there was a pretty big you
(13:36):
know like oh no, well, I wasn't.
I was involved in that Ireceived.
I was the first person toreport one time that I had
received something that I waslike.
This is for sure.
Yeah, not supposed to be onthis network, right, and so, as
I did, you do when you followthe procedure, that is basically
pencils down right, don't touchanything leave the room, you
(13:57):
know, and go get someone and saylike I'm not going to delete,
I'm not going to forward, I'mnot going to take any more
action.
Now that I've seen this thing,yeah, I'm not going to touch it
anymore.
And then you freeze my accountand like I won't use it for the
next few days until somebodydoes what they're supposed to do
, and then I'll get my accountback, right, and so I did that,
right.
And then the guy who sent it tome, he was out, further
(14:19):
deployed, you know, I was at theheadquarters, he was a little
further down range and, uh, Iwasn't really able to
communicate with him quickly andeasily, right, and I worked at
night, so it was like I had noidea how to get in touch with
him at 2 am.
So I just walked down the hallto the, where you probably would
have worked, right, and said,hey, uh, I got.
You know, it's number four forthis deployment.
(14:40):
Here it comes, you know, comedown the hall and come, look at
this.
Right it it was.
It ended up not being a bigdeal, right, and I think in the
end it was still considered aspill, but I was the only
account that it had gotten toRight and so it was easy to fix.
Yeah.
But, that was just one emailwith something that was from one
classification to another,still classified level in the
(15:02):
slightly wrong spot, yeah Right,and that still required
multiple people to get involvedin like four days of checking
stuff before I got my accountback.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
When there's a CMI classified messages and we take
your hard drive out and weactually wipe it, like for like
four days, like send it throughthe system that just goes
through and looks for keywordsand key things and things like
that and just keep deliteratingthe data that's in there.
Yeah, so it takes days to likewipe hard drives, but these guys
have it on their iphones.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, another level of detail that with 18 people, you
don't know the mixture ofpersonal phone versus government
handset.
Right, that was still anunclassified government handset,
but the the real problem thereis that all of these people have
a staff that carry aroundclassified.
They're super cell phones.
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Secret cell phones are the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And there's someone that follows them around all day
long with a secret cell phonein their bag or their pocket.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
for this reason, yes, and we do exercises for these
reasons to make sure those commswork for all the right reasons
For this exact reason.
And it works.
But this is one of those thingsthat came out of the Project
2025 handbook where it says usethird-party apps to avoid
subpoenas and to avoid beingtracked and things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And the policy that everyone has acknowledged and
that's the weird thing is, somethings are getting just
acknowledged wholesale and thenother things are getting shoved
under the carpet.
But the policy that has beenacknowledged pretty regularly is
well, if you have officialmessages and official
communication that needs to beunder some kind of inspection of
(16:37):
records act, right then youhave to take that whole email
train.
You're supposed to takescreenshots of it and unclasp,
email it to yourself so that youcan get it into a government
system, so that if someone comesto say, hey, show me these
communications, they can justcheck your inbox.
Or you know the history of yourdeleted messages in your inbox.
And even if you just email itto yourself and then delete it,
(16:57):
you've now gotten it into therecord right and that's a
requirement.
If you find yourself basicallyin extenuating circumstances
where you can't use governmentchannels, then you can do this
and then copy it over Nobodydoes that, nobody would do that.
And, of course, if you create asituation where it's authorized
for use anyway, then people arejust going to say well, then
this is, this is the record,right.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And they're not going to comprehend that they need to
follow that rule.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
And then what staffer ?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
are you gonna hand it to me like here?
Do this like every day are yougonna do that, so it's a broken
system, but that you know it'sabsolutely.
There is the intention of well,check my emails.
There's nothing in there, right?
Yeah, for a reason.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
You know these other apps we saw it after the how the
Secret Service deleted alltheir messages after January 6th
.
Ooh, you know like there's norepercussions from that either.
And those are all supposed tobe after how the Secret Service
deleted all their messages afterJanuary 6th too.
There's no repercussions fromthat either.
Those are all supposed to bepermanent records.
They're just like.
We don't have them.
What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's called a retention policy for all you
non-tech people out there.
When are you allowed to deletethings, or what information do
you have to keep forever?
Doge has reset all theretention policies in the
government too.
You know one day.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Basically, if we decide we want to delete it,
then it's fine, yeah yeah, whichis scary because, yeah, they're
definitely got rid of all thethe other watchdog groups too,
so it's oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
And then somebody said, well, they were talking to
Trump in the Oval Office andthey said do you think the
Inspector General for the DODshould investigate this?
And he was like, oh yeah, sure.
And I just thought to myselfthere's not one, he fired them
all.
If he's going to go handpicksome dude that works at his golf
club to come and be the IG atthe DOD.
(18:44):
That's how an IG is going tocome and do this right, the guy
who's in charge of Mar-a-Lago,making sure the grass gets cut
and the meals get served on timehe's going to become the IG
over at the DOD.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, whoever lied on his scorecard that won him that
championship, he's going to bepretty big in the government
pretty soon.
That's it.
So yeah, bring in all the IGsyou want you know, because I'm
going to handpick them and justthey're going to sit in there
(19:14):
playing you know Rubik's cubesall day, until somebody's going
to write a report about nothing.
So to bring the national stuffdown to our level here.
This Friday we have SteveBannon coming to town Going to
be up at the music Phil LongMusic Hall.
Yeah, yeah, so he's going to beup at the music Phil Long Music
I always say yeah, so going tobe up there, there's going to be
protesters obviously.
I think they've planned somethings for like over at Bass Pro
(19:37):
and kind of send some folksover that way just to kind of
slow down traffic, things likethat, whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
What is the point of?
There's no election?
The election's over, right.
What is?
Why is bannon on a uh politicalmessaging tour, right?
If they've got all threebranches government, they've got
everything is in, you know,under his uh, him and trump and
elon, they kind of have theiryou know power of everything.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
So what's?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
the point of going out and rallying the base when
you've already got popular votewin.
You've got high approvalratings.
You've got blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Right, like everybody that knows about Project 2025,
thinks it's great, so there's nomore educating.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's required to do .
What is there to do?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
now?
Well, I think the next stepthat they're looking for is to
make sure that they have enoughpeople riled up Because people
are going to start getting upsetand Trump's going to be yeah,
exactly.
Like they're going to startseeing pretty direct influences
on that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
All the tariffs, yeah , where you can't buy a car in
six months because there's 25%tariff on an already too
expensive car If you have a job,to even begin with.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, exactly.
Too expensive car if you have ajob to begin?
Yeah, exactly.
Um.
So I think they need to gettheir more loyal base riled up
to be intimidators and make surethat they try to keep people in
line and just make sure thatpeople don't speak out and speak
up against the bit of asheepdog kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Right, it was just like staying.
Stay in flock, you know.
Yeah, exactly strong.
Yes, make sure that people youknow stay focused swallow that
Kool-Aid up.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, it's going to be a little hard for us.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, the billionaires need us on this one
, the guy who got fired butwasn't a government civilian
that gets fired but still thinksTrump has his best interest in
him, right?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, You're literally saying yeah, I wasn't
really doing my job.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, like you're literallysaying like yeah, I wasn't
really doing my job.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You know what I mean.
Like, yeah, I wasn't earning mypaycheck.
Yeah, but like who?
Nobody out there is going tosay that, because everybody that
works in the government likehates the government, right,
like it's just, it's afrustrating bureaucracy, yes,
but it's one of those thingsthat just kind of needs to
happen to make sure that wedon't have the abuses of the
systems or things like that.
And obviously you can alwaystrim things, but for the most
(21:48):
part, like these big hacks thatare happening right now, they're
not like targeted, they're justhacks and trying to get to a
number, and so the things thatare going to be missing and the
things that we have to fix onthe back end are going to cost
us twice as much.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, there's no depth of thought.
It's all numbers on a page thatare not realistic, and then a
lot of times you add a tail toit of like, well, there'll be a
$10 million immediate savingsand then $50 million over the
next five years, 10 years,whatever.
There's no way to project that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
There's no idea.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
The rest, the 10 10 of the estimate is real and 90
of it is completely fabricatedright, yeah, I mean that's just
well, and you know what'shappening and they've, they've,
uh.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Actually, I heard uh aoc talk on that on one of her
podcasts, where they throw out afirst number where you know 393
trillion have been saved, andthen comes out, you know, a week
later yeah, yeah, yeah, it waslike a million, yeah, but they
never correct it, or?
It never goes back.
Once people know that firstnumber, they see that first
number, they think that they'redoing god's work.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, yeah, and, and I mean as we'll talk about it
all the time politics are.
You know, the headline is thegoal sometimes and with doge man
they've taken that and just runit to death.
You know the idea that theheadline is the story, that the
story doesn't matter.
The rest of the content doesn'tmatter.
A big number on the headline isall that matters.
(23:15):
And yeah, the retraction tothat is not a headline.
Right, it's part of the story,but it's not a headline, so no
one reads it right, yeah, Ithink usually those updates are
at the bottom of those storiesand the headline's still the
exact same yeah, it is likeyou're right.
Yeah, it's uh just completemisinformation that people
swallow up, but at this point Ireally think it's willful, like
(23:38):
at some point we have to holdpeople accountable for the
information that they'reswallowing the yeah, I mean if
you stand in your echo chamberand you enjoy being in the echo
chamber, but then you I don'tknow conceptually you go home
from the echo chamber and whenyou get home, you can't afford
to pay your bills and one ofyour incomes has disappeared.
(24:00):
And the things that you neededto do haven't changed, right,
your responsibilities haven'tchanged, but your resources and
your ability to meet those needshave changed.
And then you go back to theecho chamber.
How many times can you do thatback and forth before it doesn't
match, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Right, Because now they're starting to say well,
Biden left us a terrible economy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Well, when Biden left .
Every president always doesthat.
Yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Biden like you had a job, yeah Right you know so,
right, and how.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Why do you believe that when every president gets
into their first hundred daysand goes look at what the last
person, how bad they messed itup.
Right, you know, give me timeto fix it.
We don't need to even hear thatanymore.
Yeah, we already understand.
Like no one's ever thought thatday one of anything like a
massive government turnover isgoing to just hit the ground
running, right, no one's everthought that, right, and so yes,
(24:49):
and of course, the policy froma partisan group to the next
opposite partisan group is goingto take a lot of effort to
swing that pendulum the otherway in all these policy
movements, right, so we all getthat.
So the whole pointing backwardsand blaming the last guy, last
guy or gal is just so stupid.
Like, it's not.
It backwards and blaming thelast guy or gal is just so
stupid.
It doesn't matter anymore.
It does to the base.
If hate is part of the message,just remember how bad we hate
(25:12):
those guys.
Which man?
Trump couldn't talk aboutplastic in the ocean without
saying that President Biden putit all there, right?
I mean, it wouldn't matter whattopic it was.
You know Biden did it andpeople ask him questions that
have nothing to do withpresidential election type stuff
(25:32):
.
And he'll be like well you know, if Biden hadn't been such an
incompetent fool, then thatthing wouldn't have happened.
Right, and you're like how?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Why.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know, but he just again.
It is that remind, just say itout loud at least five times a
day.
We still hate Joe Biden.
That's just part of the gameplan for him.
Yeah Well, if we get caught upin his false messaging and crazy
you know, backwards lookingeverything, let's switch gears
and talk about.
You attended some events in thelast week that were, you know,
(26:06):
the counter to all thismisinformation.
Right, it's a way for Democratsto get together and try to
establish what can be a gameplan when the actual legislators
don't really have any power todo much.
So tell us about.
You know what you've been tothis last week and what you
learned from it.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
So starting last Thursday,senator Bennett had a town hall
here and it was a good town hall.
I guess he had like three thatday or in a couple of days there
, so he was pretty worn out andon the on the mountains he took
quite a beating because at histown halls it's not a Republican
Democrat, it's a constituentthing.
Right At the AOC Sanders rallyon Friday, that was a Democrat,
(26:46):
yeah that was a little moreone-sided.
But at the Senator Bennett'stown hall, you know there was
definitely some strong feelingsand hostile feelings there.
But he stood there and listenedand took it and, you know,
stood by, you know things thathe said.
But one thing that I keephearing, you know, stood by, you
know things that he said, uh,but one thing that I I keep
hearing, you know, at his townhall and then at, you know,
friday up in Denver, you know,with those, uh, the 35,000 that
(27:09):
showed up there, um, people keepscreaming about, you know,
what's the plan, what's theaction plan like, what are we
doing?
Things like that.
And Senator Brennan didn't havea great answer.
When AOC and Bernie talked thenext day, you know they kind of
talked about grassrootsmovements and stuff like that,
which is, you know, an answer,but not a great answer.
You know we see this a lot with, like the Occupy Wall Street
(27:34):
movement and the other movementsthroughout the ages.
Here, that, you know, peopleget a lot of thrust and not a
lot of vector.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So everybody, that's a great way to say it that
people get a lot of thrust andnot a lot of vector.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That's a great way to say it.
So we kind of sputter ourenergy all across the spectrum
and we don't really have a lotof focus.
So I think at the federal level, we need a leader to say, hey,
this is what we're doing, thisis the type of protest that we
want to do.
These are the type of thingsthat we want you guys to talk to
your senators about, you know,and kind of start putting those
things and start kind of likegiving a structure for people to
(28:08):
work on the way down.
But until that happens and Idon't expect it to happen, okay,
fair Well, you know, I toldSenator Ben, I had his ear for a
quick second.
I was like when people say thatto you, point them to your local
party office, point them to thelocal Democrat office, even if
you're not a Democrat, you callhere and say, hey, I want to do
(28:31):
something.
They'll have a list for you cantalk to these people.
These people, these people, goforth, you don't have to be just
in the Democratic Party, butthey're a good nexus for
information and we're trying toconsolidate some of those things
and be a good focal point andyeah, there you go, funnel and
focus energy from thrust intovector, exactly focus it down so
(28:53):
that when people call up, thephone rings off the hook in the
office.
Now, when people call up and saywhat can I do, we have answers,
and that's what I work on withsome other groups of folks.
You know, we kind of want tohave something that we can give
people answers for and not juststand there with our mouth open
like there.
But at this point there's somany people out there doing
(29:17):
stuff that if you, if you'restill on the sidelines screaming
like what are you doing?
Like you're not, you're justnot talking to the right people.
Yeah, like, call the offices ofyour Democratic Party or
Indivisible.
Indivisible is an incredibleorganization.
They have a meeting tonightthat will probably have over
1,000 people at, where theybreak up into groups and like
solve problems.
(29:38):
There's these organizations outthere that are doing stuff.
So if you're standing on thesidelines screaming like what
are you doing?
Or what's the plan, like getinvolved man.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Like we have plans, but we need bodies, so I first,
I want to agree completely thatthe idea of you know, the senior
leaders, being able to turnthat energy around and put it
back into the local environmentand say hey there is a way for
you in your own community toaffect things at the state level
and at the county level.
(30:08):
You can be visible and you canmake pressure in this political
environment.
But I also, I completelyunderstand the position of those
representatives and senatorsman, their hands are so tied as
far as what can really be doneon the legislative.
Representatives and senatorsman, their hands are so tied as
far as what can really be doneon the legislative side of
things.
So I guess it turns.
(30:33):
I think it turns all of ourlocal effort and this is what I
hope maybe people that arevolunteering is that this is now
a marathon over the next twoyears okay over the next two
years.
Okay Till the midterms.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
This is not a go to a rally once right now or, you
know, pick an event once thisyear and go rah, rah, rah.
Yeah, that won't work, becausemidterms are the goal.
At this point.
There's nothing between hereand midterms that can that the
legislators can really do so,between here and midterms that
the legislators can really do sowe have to be.
The goal here is be vocal, bepresent, be visible, be active
(31:11):
for the next almost two years sothat when our candidates are on
that ballot and the people whoare suffering economically, who
don't have a job, who do havemeasles, who do have all these
other problems that they lookaround and go.
I don't like what's been goingon for the last two years, and
the most visible thing they seeas a solution to the problem is
(31:33):
the Democratic Party or you as aperson, whether you're Democrat
or not, the effort that you'reputting in to change the
narrative and change thecommunity.
That hopefully leads to amidterm situation where some
level of balance of power can bebrought back to a partisan
balance, right At a minimum ofbalance, and so you know that
it's a long run for me.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
It's a long run.
Well, and even you know the twoyears is kind of still a sprint
for us.
When you talk long term, youlook at like what the Heritage
Foundation has laid out over thelast 40, 50 years.
You know that's a long termplan that that the left just
doesn't have.
Oh no, you know they don't havesomething like that because
they wrote it down to where.
(32:15):
You know you focus on schoolboards, city councils and you
really build up those littleextra, those bases, and that
helps you to get your messagingacross.
On up, you know it's kind oflike a reverse pyramid, you know
, or like a standard pyramid.
You know you build the base.
I'm not great with geometry.
(32:36):
But yeah, so Leave it to DonaldTrump to build an upside-down
pyramid, right.
Leave it to Donald Trump tobuild an upside-down pyramid,
yeah, but the left needssomething like that that has
just long-term vision and goalswith an actual plan and not just
putting out fires as theHeritage Foundation throws them
at us.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
But yeah, so like I've never witnessed something
that is a multi, multiple,decade type of plan.
I guess civil rights like andmaking sure that like again,
just you know, once those lawschange.
That we did.
It wasn't a pop and fizzle andeverything went back to the way
it was.
That was a sustained andenduring effort from the left to
(33:20):
make sure that those rightswere truly galvanized yeah and
that that I could see as acounter representation of
something that was 20, 30 yearslong but then post that era
right, I'd say 1990s, early2000s into where we're at now.
It has, I feel like it's been alot of shiny ball.
(33:41):
You know what's the hottestthing right now?
Whether it's the environment,it's been a long-term messaging
thing, but not really aUniversal healthcare same thing.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You know Clinton started it but we didn't really
build off it.
And then you know Obamacare'sbeen fought.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So yeah, everything kind of ebbs and flows a lot
more as far as the politicalmovements and the things that
are top priorities within theDemocratic Party, they tend to
be a little more.
You know.
They can come and go and nothave that 20, 30, 40 year.
You know, push that.
We've seen from the other sidewhere it's like 50 years to
overturn Roe v Wade, but likethe day that it happened they
(34:17):
were like we're going tooverturn this someday.
Yeah, right.
And they set it up and Icouldn't believe it when people
were telling me when I first gotout of the military and I
started to look at running foroffice, some people at the state
level were like man, abortionrights and like enshrining X, y
and Z.
Is this huge deal in New Mexico?
And I just thought Roe v Wadeis like locked in?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
We got this, yeah.
What Roe v Wade is like lockedin?
We got this, yeah.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And they said and the one woman who was in charge of
the Senate, the state Senate,there she said how would you
vote in this type of situation?
There's this law.
Basically, she was trying tocount votes before I was even in
the seat.
She's like if you end up in theseat.
I want to know where you standon this right and that's going
to determine whether I supportyou or not.
Right, and it was that NewMexico had a, which a lot of
(35:04):
other states have had, thisfailover law, that if Roe v Wade
ever gets rescinded, that NewMexico automatically goes back
to whatever their law was theday before Roe v Wade got
enacted right.
And it's this fallback thingthat, like the federal
protection, is the only thingthat's enshrining us.
Once that federal protection isremoved, we just go right back
into the law books and go thiswas the last thing on the books.
(35:27):
It was not the only state thatwas like that.
There was quite a few statesthat had that clause built in,
and so getting rid of that was abig deal right, because there
was the strong belief that, likeit's coming right, supreme
court is getting built, builtand stacked in that direction
and we have to change this lawin new mexico or we're going to
(35:47):
just get rolled back in time.
And uh, they did.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
They got it changed before good roby wood got
rescinded yeah but it was a it'sjust crazy to think to me like
the only thing keeping statesfrom like stripping away those
rights that we fought for andlike people have fought and, you
know, bled for, and just likethat it's a one pager in the
books, in the statutes right.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
It's a real simple one pager this goes away.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
This happens, yeah, that's crazy, yeah, and there
and there's all kinds of issuesthat have that type of stuff
built in, you know so yeah, it'sjust crazy to me that we have
to go back and fight for allthese things that so many people
have already, you know, foughtfor.
But but, like now, I, you knowwe're at a point where, like, we
need those folks that fought inthe past and they did some of
these things in the past to comeback and help teach some of
(36:34):
these new kids.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
You know what I mean get the thrust from energy of
the youth into a vector of leadsto it, of that experience, you
know, if we can get some of that, you know, because there's a
lot of excited kids Youthfulthrust.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, there's a lot of excited kids that are
probably going to be arrested inthe next day.
Yeah, you know so it's going tobe really interesting to try to
get those two generations toreally work together To get on
it.
Pulling on the same oar can getthe boat moving in the same
direction exactly, man, you'reright I mean the age, the age
(37:07):
difference and what matters.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
You know if you're consider yourself progressive,
but then what are you reallypassionate about and what are
you going to show up and likefight about?
Again, I would think that evenwith the changes the youngest
generation right now would go, Idon't think that abortion
rights are really.
Are they really?
Speaker 1 (37:22):
that big of a deal Because they don't remember that
this is the fight that's beengoing on.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So they're like, I think we can just vote and
change it right.
They're like, no, that alreadyhappened.
And teaching them hey, let'snot let history repeat itself.
The pendulum's always going toswing back and forth, but when
it starts moving back in ourdirection, is always going to
swing back and forth, but whenit starts moving back in our
direction, we've got to pick upthose lessons learned and go hey
, how do we do this right thistime?
How do we get something builtin so that it is like civil
(37:49):
rights, where we believe thatit's really well protected?
We see that some of that'sgoing away as well.
That's the hardest thing for me,being a veteran that's here for
20 years, to sit, sit back andlike just watch a nation not
believe its founding principlesthat were all created the
freedom of speech piece reallygets me, because that's the one
(38:09):
that I feel like if I was everasked when I was in active duty,
like if you were really puttingyour life on the line for
something, what do you think itis Right?
And this whole bag of you knowAmerican properties and values,
what is it Right?
Whole bag of you know americanproperties and values.
What is it right?
And to me, the whole.
You know, I don't necessarily Idon't have to agree with what
you say, but I'll defend to thedeath.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
You're right to say it.
Yeah, I would have got thattattooed on my back.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah it matters right and it doesn't matter today.
Right, because if you say Ithink palestine is cool, you can
get deported to palestine.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
You're american citizen and they'll be like
videos of it, where thesestudents are getting.
Palestine is cool.
You can get deported toPalestine.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You're an American citizen and they'll be like time
to go Yanked off the street anddo I agree with what they're
saying?
No, not at all.
Do I agree with their harshstance in, like pro-Hamas in
some situations type situation,and you know, the blood of
Israelis is the only answer?
Absolutely not.
But should a student face aconsequence for saying anything?
(39:05):
No, right, like.
That's the first amendment.
It was the first one, you know.
We said there's some rules thatwe didn't quite get.
We need this one first right.
The most important thing thatwe ever changed was that one was
first and now it's negotiableand I'm not okay with that.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Well, we was that one was first yeah, and now it's
negotiable, and I'm not okaywith that.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Well, we'll leave it on thathappy note.
Thanks everybody for joining ushere.
Another episode of Left FaceTune in again next week and
we'll come back and keep talkingears off.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
We'll tell you a little more about whatever rags
have been stripped away nextweek.
Hello everyone and welcome to Left Face.
(00:01):
This is the Pikes Peak Region'sVeterans Podcast.
We talk about political thingsfrom the federal level all the
way down to the local level.
My name is Adam Gillard, yourco-host here with Dick Wilkinson
.
How are you doing, Dick?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Good morning Adam and our listeners.
I'm doing great.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Man.
It is a non-stop rotating ideasof conversations for this show
right now.
We just sat down and had a20-minute conversation with like
100 topics.
Uh, there's just so many thingsgoing on.
Right now, the first three-hourepisode yeah, right um, I think
let's just stay right on the uh.
What we're just talking aboutwith uh.
(00:39):
Everybody knows by now thatthat this data spill classified
information being passed outover Signal like an active
strike.
He gave times, dates, equipment.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Explicit details.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Yeah, it was everything in the classification
guide that you're not supposedto put out over these systems.
Yes, and he put it out overthese systems.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
And then, even if those details are all disparate,
and then you aggregate themright.
There's that aggregationconcept, right Of like, even if
each sentence itself is notclassified when you say all five
of them in a row that becomesclassified Right, and so that's
kind of what got Hillary introuble with her server.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
That was the classified information.
It was aggregating it togetherand consolidating it and putting
it together.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
This was straight up.
Like you don't need toaggregate this.
Yeah, this is mission details.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Man and we were just talking about where I was just
kind of mentioning this is whyit's important to have people
that understand more than justthe superficial aspects of our
military and what the wordencryption means and things like
that.
But, like, when we encrypt data, it goes across, it goes
through.
You know different.
You know encryption devices.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
We have.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
We have our own lines .
Things like that Signal is nota safe, a safe place to be
sending that data.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's not.
And you know we say it's gotend-to-end encryption and it's
got high-quality encryption.
Okay, that's great.
But the system breaks down when, as I had mentioned, the
concept of most classifiedcommunication protocols is that
you own the device, meaning thehandset, the cell phone or the
landline that's on the desk, andthen the people on the other
(02:22):
end are also cleared and ownthat special equipment as well.
Now you got equipment on bothends.
Think of those as the cans onthe string from the old you know
old timey phone line and thenthe string in the middle.
We own that as well forclassified systems.
So we own both ends and thepipe that they talk on signal
works on any device in the worldand goes over classic internet
(02:48):
and unclassified you knowuncontrolled means to get from
here to there.
Yeah, so you don't own eithercan or the string in this
situation and you're taking theword of an open source project
that says but it's airtight,brother, and I want to say like
I can't believe it, right, butthen I find out that there's
other sectors of government andother parts of the government
(03:10):
that have I don't want to go asfar as saying authorized use,
but said consider it, and thatscares the hell out of me.
Now not for classifiedconversations, but for
government conversations thatneed to be transmitted with an
extra layer of security.
And that's really what they'retrying to say is don't talk
(03:30):
about.
Even like Pete Hicks says, justtravel itinerary should be
classified.
That would be something thatmaybe, if it wasn't classified
or you had to talk about onestaffer to another, hey, we
changed the plan, we're notgoing to get there till five
o'clock, we were going to bethere at two o'clock, we were
going to be there two o'clock.
Like that little detail thatsounds like what signal maybe
should be for, yeah, is thatlive moment to moment, not
(03:51):
classified, but sensitivemovement, right, that kind of
stuff.
Yeah, not warheads right?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
um, yeah, it's just so crazy.
You know, working in the in theclassified world for so long,
you know I had my SEI for a verylong time and there was leaks
and spills and things wouldhappen.
And it's funny to hear theWhite House has spent on this
where they're like well, the SECdef says it's not classified.
Yeah, he can say that.
He can 100% say that becausehe's the classified authority
(04:20):
yeah it doesn't mean it's right.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It doesn't mean that's the proper protocol, yes,
so like, yes, it's the legalauthority to break protocol,
right, but then we've got tostill admit that protocol was
broken, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
There was one time we were working in a mission and
there was a four star general.
He identified the location,like to the news, and it was a
classified location and all of asudden that became unclassified
because you know it's like.
Well, there it is yeah, it'sout there yes, it is
unclassified now, but it shouldnot have ever been.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
And having a reporter on the chain that is just so
inept of them why I mean if theAtlantic as a publication and
this reporter as a person arejust public enemy number one to
Donald Trump?
Speaker 1 (05:14):
why?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
would anybody in his staff have that dude's contact
information?
Like if you got it fromsomebody and they're like, if
you ever need so-and-so'scontact info, here it is.
You're like, I will never needto talk to that guy.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
At least the Watergate scandal took effort.
They had to figure things outand actually investigate this
journalism.
This guy just handed this onthe platter.
He was like here's a scandalfor you.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
The Daily Show did a joke on that.
They did a skit where there wasthese two reporters that were
supposed to go out and, you know, gumshoot their way through the
case.
And then the one guy he gets ablip on his phone.
He's like, oh, oh, no, don'tworry about it.
And she's like, well, no.
Then one of their sources in atrench coat comes in and he
(06:02):
tells them some detail and he'slike, yeah, I already knew that.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And then he reads the whole thing to them.
I already knew that.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
It was actually pretty funny.
That proves the point, and Imean the people who have made
these mistakes, which is a wholeother ripple in this raisin is
the way that there's no.
Get your story straight, youknow.
Get coherent.
(06:30):
You all could have an 18 persondeep text message chain with
each other, but you can't doone-to-one calls and be like,
hey, what are you going to saywhen you go on tv later?
You know so they're all likeit's classified, it's not
classified.
It happened, it didn't happentext message, not a text message
.
War plan, not a war plan.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Yeah, and that's just theirplan is to get into the weeds of
, like, the semantics of it allsplit the hairs all the way down
until it doesn't matter, right?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
if you just get frustrated, like, okay, that's
never mind, yeah, never mind,that's it For sure.
And man, I used to be a TulsiGabbard fan and I was still a
Tulsi Gabbard fan after shebecame a Republican.
I said, all right, maybe she'skind of like me, maybe she can
(07:21):
play both sides of the fence andsay something useful in both
rooms and bring value.
I think she can bring value toalmost anything she does.
Right?
That's what I wanted to believeuntil like a year ago, right,
and then, ever since then, it'sjust she, just.
I guess once you get intoTrump's orbit you realize you're
, you know you can't get out ofit, basically right, and so
(07:42):
assimilate.
Or why did you even come here?
You know so Well, so what?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
repercussions can there be right now for folks
like her, even Hegseth himself,that perjured themselves, you
know, in front of Congress youknow they can't say that there's
no classified when the NationalSecurity Councils came out and
said there was, you know, solike they immediately contradict
themselves.
And you know, under all theperjury of themselves, what kind
of consequences can there be ifwe're people in those roles
(08:10):
Cause they're not getting fired.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I don't think there's going to be anything.
You know and this was I saw aguy on the soon as the news
broke he was on LinkedIn.
He's like oh, is going tohappen, and that's going to
happen.
And here's all the rules thatwere broken.
And I just said, man, nobody'sgetting in trouble over this,
you know because it was one.
It's too many and this is one ofthose.
Like there was like 10 cabinetmembers in it.
(08:35):
You know, right, there are 18people on the chain.
Like 10 of them were the mostsenior people in the government,
right, and so you can't firethem all.
You're not going to scapegoatone of them.
If that was going to happen, itwould have happened within the
first like two hours.
They would have been like thisguy under the bus, here he comes
.
It's too early in the game Ifanybody had any other.
Here's the thing if thishappened, like six months from
(08:56):
now, somebody on that chainwould have been on the bad
graces of Donald Trump, so theywould have had a wrong little
rub last week.
They would have said somethingin the news that he didn't like.
They would have said I don'tthink this plan is working, or
something, and that would havebeen off with their head kind of
situation right, but it's soearly in the game right now that
nobody's in a position of beinglike with the dunce cap on
(09:18):
right, and so, because theydon't have the dunce cap on, it
wasn't clear, cut right.
But if there was anybody thatwas in a spot, that could have
been standing on the ledgescapegoat Right there, bam.
But because there is noscapegoat, it's like the plan.
That's what's leading to thisincoherent messaging where each
person is trying to cover theirown assets but then, at the same
(09:39):
time, acknowledge that ithappened and then just blow
smokescreen about well, it'sclassified, not classified,
authorized.
And then just blow smokescreenabout well, it's classified, not
classified.
You know, authorized, notauthorized.
This was on my phone when I gotit, when I became the CIA
director.
Okay, bro, your job is todecide if that's a good idea or
not.
That's literally your job.
(10:00):
You authorize or unauthorizethe use of communication
channels.
That is on you.
You can't say the last directorgave me a phone with this thing
on it, or the staffers thatwere here after that person left
said this is how we've beendoing business.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
That doesn't matter.
You're the director.
That just goes to show they'reunqualified for it.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It does yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Another thing that I want to point out that's kind of
comical about the situation isthe day before Hegseth was in
the Oval Office talking abouthow we used to be an
embarrassment, but no longer.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
And then it comes out that he's doing this shit and
just blabbing ourselves.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
We're clean on OPSEC yeah, we're clean on OPSEC.
Yeah, what an ironic, justbeautiful irony right Like
poetry couldn't be written moreelegantly.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
What Pete Hexeth?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
said to the journalist in the classified,
unclassified, open source chatwe're clean on OPSEC.
I mean, jokes write themselvessometimes right.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
One thing that bugged me about that meeting in the
Oval Office is that he had aflag as his pocket handkerchief
thing.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Oh yeah, he's got those veteran squares, pocket
squares, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
And I'm pretty sure Title 10 of the flag code says
don't do stupid shit like that.
Don't wear the flag as anaccoutrement.
Oh, as clothing yeah asclothing and as a.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Maybe I don't know.
I mean, I didn't notice it, soit didn't catch my eye.
Yeah, at first I thought he waswearing his military ribbon,
that's why I had to zoom in.
I was like no way is he wearingmilitary ribbons in New England
but I wouldn't put that pasthim either.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
But yeah, so yeah, I don't know, it was just the dude
got drunk that night.
I guarantee you.
I guarantee you he got drunkthat night.
That's a whole other storyright there.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
When I very first saw the story, before the real
weight of it had become exposed,my comment on it was the text
messages were you know,especially with the emojis and
the different things.
I was like man, this soundsjust like literally like people
putting together a frat party.
You know it's Saturday at 11 amand you're?
I was like man, this soundsjust like literally like people
putting together a frat party.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It's Saturday at 11 am and you're like hey man?
Speaker 2 (12:09):
whose place are we having it at?
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Who's getting beer?
Who's getting the girls?
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Who's getting the pizza, and like, who are we
going to invite?
And then they're just hittingeach other up with emojis like
score picture of the keg, fist,pump the american flag, you know
.
So that's that's what it feltlike to me, right?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
that's what the conversation felt like, and
actually that's fine if that'show the staff communicates, but
if they do that in classifiedchannels, right, we were going
on a mission somewhere and thelocation was classified, and
somebody accidentally leaked, uhlike a mwr mission, that we
were going on and that wasenough to to like locate where
(12:51):
we were going to be sure.
And so, uh, all of ourcomputers got confiscated oh,
yeah, like yeah that's howserious this stuff is.
Like we start talking abouttimes and locations and like
where our troops are going to be, like that all of our like
hundreds of computers gotconfiscated just to make sure
that everything got wiped clean,and things like that.
These types of errors need tohave some repercussions.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Data spill.
I've been through the samething.
Where it's usually it wassomething that should have been
fully top secret ends up onzipper.
That happened a lot.
So, you're still in aclassified channel, but you got
a lot of people in zipper thatare not authorized to see the
other stuff.
So when I was deployed inafghanistan seemed like that
happened three or four timeswhen there was a pretty big you
(13:36):
know like oh no, well, I wasn't.
I was involved in that Ireceived.
I was the first person toreport one time that I had
received something that I waslike.
This is for sure.
Yeah, not supposed to be onthis network, right, and so, as
I did, you do when you followthe procedure, that is basically
pencils down right, don't touchanything leave the room, you
(13:57):
know, and go get someone and saylike I'm not going to delete,
I'm not going to forward, I'mnot going to take any more
action.
Now that I've seen this thing,yeah, I'm not going to touch it
anymore.
And then you freeze my accountand like I won't use it for the
next few days until somebodydoes what they're supposed to do
, and then I'll get my accountback, right, and so I did that,
right.
And then the guy who sent it tome, he was out, further
(14:19):
deployed, you know, I was at theheadquarters, he was a little
further down range and, uh, Iwasn't really able to
communicate with him quickly andeasily, right, and I worked at
night, so it was like I had noidea how to get in touch with
him at 2 am.
So I just walked down the hallto the, where you probably would
have worked, right, and said,hey, uh, I got.
You know, it's number four forthis deployment.
(14:40):
Here it comes, you know, comedown the hall and come, look at
this.
Right it it was.
It ended up not being a bigdeal, right, and I think in the
end it was still considered aspill, but I was the only
account that it had gotten toRight and so it was easy to fix.
Yeah.
But, that was just one emailwith something that was from one
classification to another,still classified level in the
(15:02):
slightly wrong spot, yeah Right,and that still required
multiple people to get involvedin like four days of checking
stuff before I got my accountback.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
When there's a CMI classified messages and we take
your hard drive out and weactually wipe it, like for like
four days, like send it throughthe system that just goes
through and looks for keywordsand key things and things like
that and just keep deliteratingthe data that's in there.
Yeah, so it takes days to likewipe hard drives, but these guys
have it on their iphones.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yes, another level of detail that with 18 people, you
don't know the mixture ofpersonal phone versus government
handset.
Right, that was still anunclassified government handset,
but the the real problem thereis that all of these people have
a staff that carry aroundclassified.
They're super cell phones.
That's the thing.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Secret cell phones are the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
And there's someone that follows them around all day
long with a secret cell phonein their bag or their pocket.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
for this reason, yes, and we do exercises for these
reasons to make sure those commswork for all the right reasons
For this exact reason.
And it works.
But this is one of those thingsthat came out of the Project
2025 handbook where it says usethird-party apps to avoid
subpoenas and to avoid beingtracked and things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And the policy that everyone has acknowledged and
that's the weird thing is, somethings are getting just
acknowledged wholesale and thenother things are getting shoved
under the carpet.
But the policy that has beenacknowledged pretty regularly is
well, if you have officialmessages and official
communication that needs to beunder some kind of inspection of
(16:37):
records act, right then youhave to take that whole email
train.
You're supposed to takescreenshots of it and unclasp,
email it to yourself so that youcan get it into a government
system, so that if someone comesto say, hey, show me these
communications, they can justcheck your inbox.
Or you know the history of yourdeleted messages in your inbox.
And even if you just email itto yourself and then delete it,
(16:57):
you've now gotten it into therecord right and that's a
requirement.
If you find yourself basicallyin extenuating circumstances
where you can't use governmentchannels, then you can do this
and then copy it over Nobodydoes that, nobody would do that.
And, of course, if you create asituation where it's authorized
for use anyway, then people arejust going to say well, then
this is, this is the record,right.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And they're not going to comprehend that they need to
follow that rule.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
And then what staffer ?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
are you gonna hand it to me like here?
Do this like every day are yougonna do that, so it's a broken
system, but that you know it'sabsolutely.
There is the intention of well,check my emails.
There's nothing in there, right?
Yeah, for a reason.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
You know these other apps we saw it after the how the
Secret Service deleted alltheir messages after January 6th
.
Ooh, you know like there's norepercussions from that either.
And those are all supposed tobe after how the Secret Service
deleted all their messages afterJanuary 6th too.
There's no repercussions fromthat either.
Those are all supposed to bepermanent records.
They're just like.
We don't have them.
What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
It's called a retention policy for all you
non-tech people out there.
When are you allowed to deletethings, or what information do
you have to keep forever?
Doge has reset all theretention policies in the
government too.
You know one day.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Basically, if we decide we want to delete it,
then it's fine, yeah yeah, whichis scary because, yeah, they're
definitely got rid of all thethe other watchdog groups too,
so it's oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
And then somebody said, well, they were talking to
Trump in the Oval Office andthey said do you think the
Inspector General for the DODshould investigate this?
And he was like, oh yeah, sure.
And I just thought to myselfthere's not one, he fired them
all.
If he's going to go handpicksome dude that works at his golf
club to come and be the IG atthe DOD.
(18:44):
That's how an IG is going tocome and do this right, the guy
who's in charge of Mar-a-Lago,making sure the grass gets cut
and the meals get served on timehe's going to become the IG
over at the DOD.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, whoever lied on his scorecard that won him that
championship, he's going to bepretty big in the government
pretty soon.
That's it.
So yeah, bring in all the IGsyou want you know, because I'm
going to handpick them and justthey're going to sit in there
(19:14):
playing you know Rubik's cubesall day, until somebody's going
to write a report about nothing.
So to bring the national stuffdown to our level here.
This Friday we have SteveBannon coming to town Going to
be up at the music Phil LongMusic Hall.
Yeah, yeah, so he's going to beup at the music Phil Long Music
I always say yeah, so going tobe up there, there's going to be
protesters obviously.
I think they've planned somethings for like over at Bass Pro
(19:37):
and kind of send some folksover that way just to kind of
slow down traffic, things likethat, whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
What is the point of?
There's no election?
The election's over, right.
What is?
Why is bannon on a uh politicalmessaging tour, right?
If they've got all threebranches government, they've got
everything is in, you know,under his uh, him and trump and
elon, they kind of have theiryou know power of everything.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
So what's?
Speaker 2 (20:06):
the point of going out and rallying the base when
you've already got popular votewin.
You've got high approvalratings.
You've got blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Right, like everybody that knows about Project 2025,
thinks it's great, so there's nomore educating.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
That's required to do .
What is there to do?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
now?
Well, I think the next stepthat they're looking for is to
make sure that they have enoughpeople riled up Because people
are going to start getting upsetand Trump's going to be yeah,
exactly.
Like they're going to startseeing pretty direct influences
on that.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
All the tariffs, yeah , where you can't buy a car in
six months because there's 25%tariff on an already too
expensive car If you have a job,to even begin with.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Yeah, exactly.
Too expensive car if you have ajob to begin?
Yeah, exactly.
Um.
So I think they need to gettheir more loyal base riled up
to be intimidators and make surethat they try to keep people in
line and just make sure thatpeople don't speak out and speak
up against the bit of asheepdog kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Right, it was just like staying.
Stay in flock, you know.
Yeah, exactly strong.
Yes, make sure that people youknow stay focused swallow that
Kool-Aid up.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Yeah, it's going to be a little hard for us.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, the billionaires need us on this one
, the guy who got fired butwasn't a government civilian
that gets fired but still thinksTrump has his best interest in
him, right?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Yeah, You're literally saying yeah, I wasn't
really doing my job.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, like you're literallysaying like yeah, I wasn't
really doing my job.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
You know what I mean.
Like, yeah, I wasn't earning mypaycheck.
Yeah, but like who?
Nobody out there is going tosay that, because everybody that
works in the government likehates the government, right,
like it's just, it's afrustrating bureaucracy, yes,
but it's one of those thingsthat just kind of needs to
happen to make sure that wedon't have the abuses of the
systems or things like that.
And obviously you can alwaystrim things, but for the most
(21:48):
part, like these big hacks thatare happening right now, they're
not like targeted, they're justhacks and trying to get to a
number, and so the things thatare going to be missing and the
things that we have to fix onthe back end are going to cost
us twice as much.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Yeah, there's no depth of thought.
It's all numbers on a page thatare not realistic, and then a
lot of times you add a tail toit of like, well, there'll be a
$10 million immediate savingsand then $50 million over the
next five years, 10 years,whatever.
There's no way to project that.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
There's no idea.
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
The rest, the 10 10 of the estimate is real and 90
of it is completely fabricatedright, yeah, I mean that's just
well, and you know what'shappening and they've, they've,
uh.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Actually, I heard uh aoc talk on that on one of her
podcasts, where they throw out afirst number where you know 393
trillion have been saved, andthen comes out, you know, a week
later yeah, yeah, yeah, it waslike a million, yeah, but they
never correct it, or?
It never goes back.
Once people know that firstnumber, they see that first
number, they think that they'redoing god's work.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, yeah, and, and I mean as we'll talk about it
all the time politics are.
You know, the headline is thegoal sometimes and with doge man
they've taken that and just runit to death.
You know the idea that theheadline is the story, that the
story doesn't matter.
The rest of the content doesn'tmatter.
A big number on the headline isall that matters.
(23:15):
And yeah, the retraction tothat is not a headline.
Right, it's part of the story,but it's not a headline, so no
one reads it right, yeah, Ithink usually those updates are
at the bottom of those storiesand the headline's still the
exact same yeah, it is likeyou're right.
Yeah, it's uh just completemisinformation that people
swallow up, but at this point Ireally think it's willful, like
(23:38):
at some point we have to holdpeople accountable for the
information that they'reswallowing the yeah, I mean if
you stand in your echo chamberand you enjoy being in the echo
chamber, but then you I don'tknow conceptually you go home
from the echo chamber and whenyou get home, you can't afford
to pay your bills and one ofyour incomes has disappeared.
(24:00):
And the things that you neededto do haven't changed, right,
your responsibilities haven'tchanged, but your resources and
your ability to meet those needshave changed.
And then you go back to theecho chamber.
How many times can you do thatback and forth before it doesn't
match, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Right, Because now they're starting to say well,
Biden left us a terrible economy.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Well, when Biden left .
Every president always doesthat.
Yeah, like.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
Biden like you had a job, yeah Right you know so,
right, and how.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Why do you believe that when every president gets
into their first hundred daysand goes look at what the last
person, how bad they messed itup.
Right, you know, give me timeto fix it.
We don't need to even hear thatanymore.
Yeah, we already understand.
Like no one's ever thought thatday one of anything like a
massive government turnover isgoing to just hit the ground
running, right, no one's everthought that, right, and so yes,
(24:49):
and of course, the policy froma partisan group to the next
opposite partisan group is goingto take a lot of effort to
swing that pendulum the otherway in all these policy
movements, right, so we all getthat.
So the whole pointing backwardsand blaming the last guy, last
guy or gal is just so stupid.
Like, it's not.
It backwards and blaming thelast guy or gal is just so
stupid.
It doesn't matter anymore.
It does to the base.
If hate is part of the message,just remember how bad we hate
(25:12):
those guys.
Which man?
Trump couldn't talk aboutplastic in the ocean without
saying that President Biden putit all there, right?
I mean, it wouldn't matter whattopic it was.
You know Biden did it andpeople ask him questions that
have nothing to do withpresidential election type stuff
(25:32):
.
And he'll be like well you know, if Biden hadn't been such an
incompetent fool, then thatthing wouldn't have happened.
Right, and you're like how?
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Why.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know, but he just again.
It is that remind, just say itout loud at least five times a
day.
We still hate Joe Biden.
That's just part of the gameplan for him.
Yeah Well, if we get caught upin his false messaging and crazy
you know, backwards lookingeverything, let's switch gears
and talk about.
You attended some events in thelast week that were, you know,
(26:06):
the counter to all thismisinformation.
Right, it's a way for Democratsto get together and try to
establish what can be a gameplan when the actual legislators
don't really have any power todo much.
So tell us about.
You know what you've been tothis last week and what you
learned from it.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Yeah.
So starting last Thursday,senator Bennett had a town hall
here and it was a good town hall.
I guess he had like three thatday or in a couple of days there
, so he was pretty worn out andon the on the mountains he took
quite a beating because at histown halls it's not a Republican
Democrat, it's a constituentthing.
Right At the AOC Sanders rallyon Friday, that was a Democrat,
(26:46):
yeah that was a little moreone-sided.
But at the Senator Bennett'stown hall, you know there was
definitely some strong feelingsand hostile feelings there.
But he stood there and listenedand took it and, you know,
stood by, you know things thathe said.
But one thing that I keephearing, you know, stood by, you
know things that he said, uh,but one thing that I I keep
hearing, you know, at his townhall and then at, you know,
friday up in Denver, you know,with those, uh, the 35,000 that
(27:09):
showed up there, um, people keepscreaming about, you know,
what's the plan, what's theaction plan like, what are we
doing?
Things like that.
And Senator Brennan didn't havea great answer.
When AOC and Bernie talked thenext day, you know they kind of
talked about grassrootsmovements and stuff like that,
which is, you know, an answer,but not a great answer.
You know we see this a lot with, like the Occupy Wall Street
(27:34):
movement and the other movementsthroughout the ages.
Here, that, you know, peopleget a lot of thrust and not a
lot of vector.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
So everybody, that's a great way to say it that
people get a lot of thrust andnot a lot of vector.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
That's a great way to say it.
So we kind of sputter ourenergy all across the spectrum
and we don't really have a lotof focus.
So I think at the federal level, we need a leader to say, hey,
this is what we're doing, thisis the type of protest that we
want to do.
These are the type of thingsthat we want you guys to talk to
your senators about, you know,and kind of start putting those
things and start kind of likegiving a structure for people to
(28:08):
work on the way down.
But until that happens and Idon't expect it to happen, okay,
fair Well, you know, I toldSenator Ben, I had his ear for a
quick second.
I was like when people say thatto you, point them to your local
party office, point them to thelocal Democrat office, even if
you're not a Democrat, you callhere and say, hey, I want to do
(28:31):
something.
They'll have a list for you cantalk to these people.
These people, these people, goforth, you don't have to be just
in the Democratic Party, butthey're a good nexus for
information and we're trying toconsolidate some of those things
and be a good focal point andyeah, there you go, funnel and
focus energy from thrust intovector, exactly focus it down so
(28:53):
that when people call up, thephone rings off the hook in the
office.
Now, when people call up and saywhat can I do, we have answers,
and that's what I work on withsome other groups of folks.
You know, we kind of want tohave something that we can give
people answers for and not juststand there with our mouth open
like there.
But at this point there's somany people out there doing
(29:17):
stuff that if you, if you'restill on the sidelines screaming
like what are you doing?
Like you're not, you're justnot talking to the right people.
Yeah, like, call the offices ofyour Democratic Party or
Indivisible.
Indivisible is an incredibleorganization.
They have a meeting tonightthat will probably have over
1,000 people at, where theybreak up into groups and like
solve problems.
(29:38):
There's these organizations outthere that are doing stuff.
So if you're standing on thesidelines screaming like what
are you doing?
Or what's the plan, like getinvolved man.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Like we have plans, but we need bodies, so I first,
I want to agree completely thatthe idea of you know, the senior
leaders, being able to turnthat energy around and put it
back into the local environmentand say hey there is a way for
you in your own community toaffect things at the state level
and at the county level.
(30:08):
You can be visible and you canmake pressure in this political
environment.
But I also, I completelyunderstand the position of those
representatives and senatorsman, their hands are so tied as
far as what can really be doneon the legislative.
Representatives and senatorsman, their hands are so tied as
far as what can really be doneon the legislative side of
things.
So I guess it turns.
(30:33):
I think it turns all of ourlocal effort and this is what I
hope maybe people that arevolunteering is that this is now
a marathon over the next twoyears okay over the next two
years.
Okay Till the midterms.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
This is not a go to a rally once right now or, you
know, pick an event once thisyear and go rah, rah, rah.
Yeah, that won't work, becausemidterms are the goal.
At this point.
There's nothing between hereand midterms that can that the
legislators can really do so,between here and midterms that
the legislators can really do sowe have to be.
The goal here is be vocal, bepresent, be visible, be active
(31:11):
for the next almost two years sothat when our candidates are on
that ballot and the people whoare suffering economically, who
don't have a job, who do havemeasles, who do have all these
other problems that they lookaround and go.
I don't like what's been goingon for the last two years, and
the most visible thing they seeas a solution to the problem is
(31:33):
the Democratic Party or you as aperson, whether you're Democrat
or not, the effort that you'reputting in to change the
narrative and change thecommunity.
That hopefully leads to amidterm situation where some
level of balance of power can bebrought back to a partisan
balance, right At a minimum ofbalance, and so you know that
it's a long run for me.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
It's a long run.
Well, and even you know the twoyears is kind of still a sprint
for us.
When you talk long term, youlook at like what the Heritage
Foundation has laid out over thelast 40, 50 years.
You know that's a long termplan that that the left just
doesn't have.
Oh no, you know they don't havesomething like that because
they wrote it down to where.
(32:15):
You know you focus on schoolboards, city councils and you
really build up those littleextra, those bases, and that
helps you to get your messagingacross.
On up, you know it's kind oflike a reverse pyramid, you know
, or like a standard pyramid.
You know you build the base.
I'm not great with geometry.
(32:36):
But yeah, so Leave it to DonaldTrump to build an upside-down
pyramid, right.
Leave it to Donald Trump tobuild an upside-down pyramid,
yeah, but the left needssomething like that that has
just long-term vision and goalswith an actual plan and not just
putting out fires as theHeritage Foundation throws them
at us.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
But yeah, so like I've never witnessed something
that is a multi, multiple,decade type of plan.
I guess civil rights like andmaking sure that like again,
just you know, once those lawschange.
That we did.
It wasn't a pop and fizzle andeverything went back to the way
it was.
That was a sustained andenduring effort from the left to
(33:20):
make sure that those rightswere truly galvanized yeah and
that that I could see as acounter representation of
something that was 20, 30 yearslong but then post that era
right, I'd say 1990s, early2000s into where we're at now.
It has, I feel like it's been alot of shiny ball.
(33:41):
You know what's the hottestthing right now?
Whether it's the environment,it's been a long-term messaging
thing, but not really aUniversal healthcare same thing.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
You know Clinton started it but we didn't really
build off it.
And then you know Obamacare'sbeen fought.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
So yeah, everything kind of ebbs and flows a lot
more as far as the politicalmovements and the things that
are top priorities within theDemocratic Party, they tend to
be a little more.
You know.
They can come and go and nothave that 20, 30, 40 year.
You know, push that.
We've seen from the other sidewhere it's like 50 years to
overturn Roe v Wade, but likethe day that it happened they
(34:17):
were like we're going tooverturn this someday.
Yeah, right.
And they set it up and Icouldn't believe it when people
were telling me when I first gotout of the military and I
started to look at running foroffice, some people at the state
level were like man, abortionrights and like enshrining X, y
and Z.
Is this huge deal in New Mexico?
And I just thought Roe v Wadeis like locked in?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
We got this, yeah.
What Roe v Wade is like lockedin?
We got this, yeah.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
And they said and the one woman who was in charge of
the Senate, the state Senate,there she said how would you
vote in this type of situation?
There's this law.
Basically, she was trying tocount votes before I was even in
the seat.
She's like if you end up in theseat.
I want to know where you standon this right and that's going
to determine whether I supportyou or not.
Right, and it was that NewMexico had a, which a lot of
(35:04):
other states have had, thisfailover law, that if Roe v Wade
ever gets rescinded, that NewMexico automatically goes back
to whatever their law was theday before Roe v Wade got
enacted right.
And it's this fallback thingthat, like the federal
protection, is the only thingthat's enshrining us.
Once that federal protection isremoved, we just go right back
into the law books and go thiswas the last thing on the books.
(35:27):
It was not the only state thatwas like that.
There was quite a few statesthat had that clause built in,
and so getting rid of that was abig deal right, because there
was the strong belief that, likeit's coming right, supreme
court is getting built, builtand stacked in that direction
and we have to change this lawin new mexico or we're going to
(35:47):
just get rolled back in time.
And uh, they did.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
They got it changed before good roby wood got
rescinded yeah but it was a it'sjust crazy to think to me like
the only thing keeping statesfrom like stripping away those
rights that we fought for andlike people have fought and, you
know, bled for, and just likethat it's a one pager in the
books, in the statutes right.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
It's a real simple one pager this goes away.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
This happens, yeah, that's crazy, yeah, and there
and there's all kinds of issuesthat have that type of stuff
built in, you know so yeah, it'sjust crazy to me that we have
to go back and fight for allthese things that so many people
have already, you know, foughtfor.
But but, like now, I, you knowwe're at a point where, like, we
need those folks that fought inthe past and they did some of
these things in the past to comeback and help teach some of
(36:34):
these new kids.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
You know what I mean get the thrust from energy of
the youth into a vector of leadsto it, of that experience, you
know, if we can get some of that, you know, because there's a
lot of excited kids Youthfulthrust.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, there's a lot of excited kids that are
probably going to be arrested inthe next day.
Yeah, you know so it's going tobe really interesting to try to
get those two generations toreally work together To get on
it.
Pulling on the same oar can getthe boat moving in the same
direction exactly, man, you'reright I mean the age, the age
(37:07):
difference and what matters.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
You know if you're consider yourself progressive,
but then what are you reallypassionate about and what are
you going to show up and likefight about?
Again, I would think that evenwith the changes the youngest
generation right now would go, Idon't think that abortion
rights are really.
Are they really?
Speaker 1 (37:22):
that big of a deal Because they don't remember that
this is the fight that's beengoing on.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
So they're like, I think we can just vote and
change it right.
They're like, no, that alreadyhappened.
And teaching them hey, let'snot let history repeat itself.
The pendulum's always going toswing back and forth, but when
it starts moving back in ourdirection, is always going to
swing back and forth, but whenit starts moving back in our
direction, we've got to pick upthose lessons learned and go hey
, how do we do this right thistime?
How do we get something builtin so that it is like civil
(37:49):
rights, where we believe thatit's really well protected?
We see that some of that'sgoing away as well.
That's the hardest thing for me,being a veteran that's here for
20 years, to sit, sit back andlike just watch a nation not
believe its founding principlesthat were all created the
freedom of speech piece reallygets me, because that's the one
(38:09):
that I feel like if I was everasked when I was in active duty,
like if you were really puttingyour life on the line for
something, what do you think itis Right?
And this whole bag of you knowAmerican properties and values,
what is it Right?
Whole bag of you know americanproperties and values.
What is it right?
And to me, the whole.
You know, I don't necessarily Idon't have to agree with what
you say, but I'll defend to thedeath.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
You're right to say it.
Yeah, I would have got thattattooed on my back.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah it matters right and it doesn't matter today.
Right, because if you say Ithink palestine is cool, you can
get deported to palestine.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
You're american citizen and they'll be like
videos of it, where thesestudents are getting.
Palestine is cool.
You can get deported toPalestine.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You're an American citizen and they'll be like time
to go Yanked off the street anddo I agree with what they're
saying?
No, not at all.
Do I agree with their harshstance in, like pro-Hamas in
some situations type situation,and you know, the blood of
Israelis is the only answer?
Absolutely not.
But should a student face aconsequence for saying anything?
(39:05):
No, right, like.
That's the first amendment.
It was the first one, you know.
We said there's some rules thatwe didn't quite get.
We need this one first right.
The most important thing thatwe ever changed was that one was
first and now it's negotiableand I'm not okay with that.
Yeah, all right.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Well, we was that one was first yeah, and now it's
negotiable, and I'm not okaywith that.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Well, we'll leave it on thathappy note.
Thanks everybody for joining ushere.
Another episode of Left FaceTune in again next week and
we'll come back and keep talkingears off.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
We'll tell you a little more about whatever rags
have been stripped away nextweek.
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