August 28, 2025 • 35 mins
The line between patriotism and authoritarianism has never been so clearly drawn. As veterans gather at Union Station to stand between ICE agents and American citizens, we're witnessing a powerful example of what it truly means to honor one's oath to the Constitution.
This episode explores the psychological processes that enable military personnel to normalize increasingly problematic actions against their fellow citizens. The gradual normalization of troops in civilian spaces creates a dangerous precedent where what begins as mundane duties can escalate to confrontations with Americans exercising their constitutional rights. Veterans Adam Gillard and Dick Wilkinson examine this slippery slope through the lens of their military experience, offering unique insight into how indoctrination and team loyalty can blur ethical boundaries.
We dive into the concerning exodus of scientists and medical professionals from government agencies like the CDC, where expertise is being replaced by political loyalty. When people with PhDs in unrelated fields are appointed to oversee public health decisions, the consequences reach far beyond partisan politics into the realm of public safety. The parallels to historical authoritarian regimes silencing scientific voices are impossible to ignore.
The conversation takes a passionate turn when discussing symbols of resistance and what it means to display the American flag during political protest. Should veterans fly the flag upside down as a distress signal, or is there greater power in reclaiming patriotic symbols from those who would undermine democratic institutions?
Join us for this thought-provoking discussion about what it means to honor one's oath in challenging times. If you're concerned about the increasing militarization of civilian spaces and the erosion of democratic norms, this episode offers both sobering analysis and inspiring examples of veterans taking action.
Listen now and consider: what lines would you refuse to cross, and how can we protect our democracy before it's too late?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Left Face.
I am your co-host, adam Gillard, along with Dick Wilkinson.
How are you doing this morning,dick?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good morning, adam, I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good, good, good.
Yeah.
Left Face is your Pikes PeakRegion's political podcast,
brought to you by a couple ofveterans just trying to give our
perspective on things.
Before we get started into ourbig discussion today, I want to
cover a couple of local eventsthat are coming up.
One I don't think it'll get outin time, but two folks are
(00:29):
giving a presentation atIndivisible tonight Rob and
Melissa, about Christiannationalism Phenomenal
presentation, so I'll try to getthat link posted along with the
show notes and things like that.
They usually record it andthere's one from a couple of
years ago on our website thatI'm sure is going to be updated
with more current events andnumbers and figures, because
they're the ones that reallypulled out that the district 20
(00:51):
school board elections raisedlike half a million dollars in
dark money.
So they do a lot of researchand it's an incredible
presentation that they put on.
So look for a link for thatfrom us.
Another big thing that we haveis this Sunday.
Phil Weiser was looking to comeinto town and talk to some vets
and things like that, so we setsomething up at the IBEW hall
on Sunday for him to come down.
(01:13):
He's running for governor nowand I've heard him speak a few
times.
He changes the energy in a roomwhen he speaks, which is not
what all political candidatescan do.
So if you can make it out forthat, that'd be great.
And then Monday we're going tohave another protest downtown,
so that'll be at Bancroft Park.
There's going to be a laborunion picnic, you know that
(01:36):
starts off the day, and thendown at City Hall we'll be
protesting at like one o'clock,I think, when we start there.
So a lot of activities thisweekend to stay current in your
community.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I think I'm going to be attending that one on Sunday.
Like you know, I'm 60% 70%without having a plan, I think
you know, I've got it penciledin.
Yeah, I've got it penciled in,yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, whenever these guys come to town, you know
they're looking for ourexperience, the story.
So you got to show up and letthem know what's going on.
And it's, you know, busyweekend here in Colorado Springs
anyways, because of the balloonliftoff and everything like
that.
I don't know, have you beendown to that ever?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
No, I mean Albuquerque was big on hot air.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's right, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're kind of from themotherland there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I know people from New Mexico that come up here for
that event.
So that reminds me I should getin touch with them if they're
going to be in town, because Ihave one buddy that I used to
fly with right.
I would crew his balloon andfly with him and stuff, and so
if he comes up here, I could geta ride.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh, that'd be pretty sweet.
Yeah, they'll do littletouchdowns in a prospect lake
and try to take off from it.
Yeah, touch and go's in thewater Doesn't always.
That's what we're here for.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Since we're on our side trek here the first time I
ever rode in one I've ridden init three times now I think, oh
cool.
But the first time I ever rodein a hot air balloon, it was me,
my son and the pilot, the guythat owns the balloon and we
were coming down.
You know there's no brakes,right, right, we've got to say
there's no brakes.
So lateral movement is theenemy of a landing, right, okay,
(03:04):
you want to be able to justfloat down and like just touch
down, yeah.
But if you're moving, you knowsideways you're going to drag,
yeah, right, and you also can'tland on.
Usually it's harder to land onthings like parking lots and
flat surfaces, for that reason.
Uh, you want to land in softerstuff like sand or grass?
Yeah, man, we landed in a sandylike dry riverbed thing and
(03:25):
just basket, tipped over and theballoon, you know, yawed a bit
and then came back up and thenwe took off and went another
like 20 yards and landed again.
Dang, it was a rough, it was arough deal is that?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
is that like standard landing?
No no, that that was I've we.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I mean out there it happens quite a bit, yeah, you
got to be ready for it everytime.
Yeah, yeah, that's basically it.
You got to be ready for that tohappen every time.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, that'd be cool, but yeah, so it's a busy
weekend here.
But the rally you know, therallies around town we haven't
been getting as much during thesummer, you know.
I think October's will be a lotbigger, I think October's will
be a lot bigger.
But I just want to point outthe importance of people still
coming out and just showingsolidarity with all the causes
that are going on right now.
There's so much thateverybody's kind of upset about.
(04:17):
It's good to go out there and,you know, be a part of the
community and find where you canput that energy, because not
all of us can be like the folksdown at Union Station right now.
Have you seen the Jolly Gingerand his troop down there?
So I can't remember whatplatform he's on or whatever,
but Jolly Ginger is the guy'stag and they're down there
(04:38):
occupying Union Station, makingsure that the ICE folks aren't
there, making sure that there'sno threats against violence and
things like that, and it's justa bunch of veterans.
I saw that the ICE folks hadparked on a no parking, like
they parked up on the curb andthings like that, and they just
surrounded the car and startedspeaking facts and, just you
(04:59):
know, talking about how, likethe diluted down law enforcement
that ICE provides isn't keepinganybody safe.
You know like they're nottrained like real law
enforcement officers for likecivil protections and things
like that.
You know they're traineddifferently and now they're just
being weaponized against theAmerican people, along with the
(05:20):
National Guard now too.
So you know states likeMississippi that are sending
their national guard up therewhen they have a higher merger
rate than you know pretty mucheverybody in the country.
It's absolutely so hypocriticaland just ridiculous how
everybody's kowtowing to Trumpright now it's very performative
right.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, it's every.
Every governor that wants toparticipate is is looking for
some tokens of of favors orsomething like that.
Well, I mean they know, orshowing solidarity to the I
don't know regime, if you wantto call it that.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, there's always such a cycle of people coming in
and out of that regime too,because he's so fickle on
everything.
Yeah, everybody's jockeying forthe next position.
So it's a disgusting state ofaffairs when you look at it,
because, when you look at it,because when you look at that
staff meeting that he had theother day and they just went
around the table like, oh, youshould get a Nobel Prize because
(06:12):
you're changing the name to theDepartment of War, good job.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I guess the first time that they all sat down and
did that it worked.
I don't know whatever it workedmeans, but either they all got
some breathing room with cabinetmembers for a little while so
they could go and try and justgo back to work and not be
getting scrutinized.
or they got money out of it fromthe budget perspective of the
(06:38):
big beautiful bill is going togive.
Who can tell me I'm theprettiest, is going to get the
most money from the department.
I don't know, but whatever itwas, it must have worked.
Yeah, because that's why everytime they have a cabinet meeting
it's that it's three hours,four hours long, because the
warm-up is two hours of howbeautiful you are.
Right, and then they have maybean hour where they talk about
(07:00):
actual work.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think they try to get him sleepy so he
doesn't really pay attention.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Get him long into the meeting.
Just keep saying nice thingsuntil he's totally checked out,
right yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
He'll just believe whatever they tell him, and
that's how Kennedy gets awaywith removing vaccines from
shelves.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I'm going last.
This time they're all drawnstraws of who gets to go last
instead of who gets to go first.
Usually when you want to talkto the commander, you want to go
first, right, so that you gotthe most attention in the most
time Right.
And if that person wants tojust give you more clock, you
get more clock Right.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
But if you're at the end odds are your clock got ate
up by somebody else, right, he'salready standing up as you're
talking, whatever, uh, talk tomy deputy, you know.
And so that, yeah, that's it,yeah, what's going on, and he
just your managers, exactly sohe just surrounds himself with
these, yes, men that these youknow hacks that just want to be,
(07:53):
you know, attached to hiscoattails, and yeah, and again,
again, somebody who is all overthe epstein files, who is just
incredibly dirty, shady personin general, and all these folks
are just like lining up to be inthis cult.
That's why it's so refreshingto see a group of veterans
standing outside of UnionStation and saying, like this is
(08:15):
enough, right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I agree, yeah, and as we all you know anybody that's
listening to this, most of usbeing veterans we understand our
oath is for life, right?
If you take that oath, you takeit forever.
For commissioned officers I wastalking to Adam this morning
and if you ever received apresidential-level commission,
that's technically in place forlife as well.
(08:37):
And so when you retire, after20 years, your commission is
intact.
After 20 years, your commissionis intact, and so you're
basically it's kind of like youcould be called a forever
individual ready reserve kind ofthing, right, and but of course
you don't.
You don't have any orders orstatus, you just your
commission's on the rolls andyou're on the retired rolls.
(09:00):
It's different than resigningyour commission, which is when,
let's say, somebody does 10years, gets out as a captain and
then goes and becomes a dentist.
That person has resigned theircommission and so they are no
longer on the roles, right,interesting, and so there's a
legal status that's differentthere.
Yeah, so I was mentioning toAdam that I'm curious about the
(09:20):
idea and it would require I needa barracks lawyer, right,
preferably from the jackbarracks, but you know if I'll
take one from the infantrybarracks because you know they
figure, yeah, they have moreexposure yeah, right process and
even a jag half my platoon, youknow.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So anyways, I'm an army guy, so you know that's I,
half my platoon, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So, anyways, I'm an army guy, so you know that's I
get to throw some rocks everynow and then.
But I'd love to have some someclarity on this because I'm
curious if, if, if someone whoholds a legal status as a
commissioned officer, if theyare at a protest and they get
injured or or, you know, we'lleven say attacked, you know
(10:07):
whatever.
I don't think the troops areout like attacking people, but
let's say there is a scuffle andone of them is they know that
they're commissioned officer,however, they've identified
themselves, whatever that is, ifa service member harmed them,
would that be the same asharming someone who's still on
orders as an officer?
From a legal perspective, isthere any greater penalty for
(10:28):
attacking a retired officerversus a regular civilian from a
UCMJ legal perspective?
I don't know.
I know that it is possible forUCMJ activity to be exercised
against someone again for therest of their life, even after
they've retired, if the crimewas committed while they were
under orders, right, and so thatUCMJ legalities extend beyond
(10:52):
just your time of service incertain cases.
So I don't know, right, like Ireally don't know what would be
official, unofficial, legal,illegal.
I don't know, yeah Right, legal, illegal, I don't know, yeah,
right, but it seems like there'san opportunity there to have
some sort of willing force ofyou know, band together type
people that would, you know, beable to at least be present,
(11:15):
like a different type ofpresence.
Yeah, at a, at a rally, protestor you know, straight up
showdown, like in la right whenthey were showdowns, sitting out
in the streets, yeah, what ifthere was a hundred people with
all with, like, green t-shirtson and that meant they were all
retired officers that were thereto, you know, discourage misuse
or illegal orders?
(11:35):
Right, basically, we're justhere to watch and observe if
illegal orders are beingexecuted.
That could be the posture,right, Not so much I'm here to
protest or I'm here to rallyagainst these troops that are
here, but I am here to see ifcommanders start to give illegal
orders or if activities thatare clearly illegal start to
happen.
Yeah, sort of an observer typething.
But of course, if you put me inharm's way, I'm also have this
(11:59):
special status and so kind oflike the press almost, you know,
in a war zone type thing, youknow.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And so kind of like the press, almost, you know, in
a war zone type thing.
You know, one thing that iskind of brought to mind is that
a lot of times, folks that arein uniform doing things just
being aggressive, in generalthey don't realize what they're
doing until they're told thatthey're doing something wrong.
Sure, you know, like once youstart going forward, you just go
forward.
If there's a wall in your way,you get through the wall.
Yeah, you know, people don'treally.
(12:27):
And just you know, recently wehad some protesters because
things are getting more testyand people are getting more
violent around town with ourprotests and things like that.
Okay, you know, we had JimJordan in town last week.
Okay, and if there's ever beena truer guardian of pedophiles
it is Jim Jordan.
Oh gosh, that dude is absolutegarbage.
(12:48):
He protected the pedophiles atOhio State when folks were
getting raped and things likethat, and now he's hiding all of
Trump's stuff.
So yeah, he's a true guardianof pedophiles right there.
So we had some folks out thereprotesting Bold statement from
Adam.
(13:08):
Thanks for educating me on that.
I mean, I believe you.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I don't know about most of that.
I don't pay much attention tohim other than we're mad that he
never wears a jacket in theSenate floor or whatever.
And now you got an old boy fromPennsylvania.
That's like jacket.
I don't even own pants.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, we had somebody outthere and a guy you know we had
protesters, just you know, doingwhat protesters do, just
mouthing off really.
And a guy came up and wastalking and as he was talking he
took the bottle in his hand andkind of like changed his grip
on it to like to grab the handletype of thing, and he
(13:44):
approached they always go afterlike the smallest woman too
there.
It's pretty pathetic.
But as he was walking up,another guy came up and said hey
, what are you doing with thatwine bottle, holding it like
that?
And he said, like, when he saidthat to the guy, the guy looked
down at his hand and was like Idon't know, oh shit, I am kind
of holding this as a weapon andhe put it back in his hand and
(14:05):
kind of backed off.
He said it was weird to see likethat click in his mind like
wait, I am kind of beingaggressive here and holding a
weapon now into the coming intothis with a weapon.
And so, like he said, it wasinteresting, you know having you
(14:28):
know the shield of commissionedofficers, kind of protecting
folks or like kind of likewatching folks.
You know how do or why is ourmilitary personnel so
susceptible to beingindoctrinated like this to where
they just follow blindly untilthe end?
I mean, I've seen videos ofafter World War II where they
showed the Nazis videos of theconcentration camps and some of
(14:49):
the folks looking at the thingwere stoned.
They didn't show emotion butsome of them were ashamed and
you could see the shock.
But they were still wearingthat uniform every day.
They were still going out thereand just doing their job.
How do we break that and whydoes it even happen Really?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, and I think that the function of a lot of
that and the function of how somany people that would never
have signed up for beingparticipating in something like
that, I feel like it's one ofthose.
It's a slippery slope conditionof changes within you know your
environment within the military, and then there's also the
every little incremental push ofthe boundary.
You get that feeling of like isthis okay?
(15:35):
But then you can reconcile itwith like well, I haven't
arrested an American yet, Rightyeah, so I'm just going to stay
here in DC and keep doing thisbecause I haven't't gotten into
a fight or arrested an.
American, I'm just weeding themulch right now.
After you're there for likethree months, it like they say
it's normalized right, and thensomething does start to happen.
(15:56):
And then you realize, you knowyou, you don't realize, oh,
things have escalated, you justdon't feel it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You know what I'm saying.
That's a great point, becausethe next order is legal.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Hey, these people have shown up and started to get
violent in the streets.
And then you're like, oh well,now this feels like a legal
order to stop them from burningcars or something like that.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, I've been picking up trash for three
months now, Like why can't I godo something else?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And so now the job is go downtown, stop people from
setting cars on fire and justmarch in a row to be, you know,
riot control.
Well, that feels like that islegal Right.
And and then you know nextthing you know you are arresting
an American, you are beating anAmerican with some weapon.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, cause people aren't standing down, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And now you're like, what, what?
Like?
You said what is happening.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know like.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I am in a fistfight with an American citizen how I'm
not a police officer?
How did this happen?
And then it's too late, right?
Then you're just in it.
It's the boiling frog kind ofsituation, I think, for most
people that are never presentedwith the clear black and white
(17:03):
Join the side of evil, join thedark side or join the light side
.
It just this is not whathappens.
You know, yeah, there's veryfew people that get to just face
that decision throughout theprocess.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, and earlier you mentioned the plan process that
goes through justindoctrinating people into the
military.
You know they always talk aboutbreaking people down and
building you back up and youknow making sure that you're a
part of the team.
And yeah, you know that thatmindset though, wanting to be a
part of the team, it's very easyfor outside nefarious
(17:33):
organizations, especially aspeople are leaving, yeah, and be
like, hey, we're, we're still ateam over here, you can be a
part of this and we're doingsomething special.
We're, we're protecting ourcommunity.
Yes, you know, and you just saythings like that without saying
like who you're protecting themagainst, and people will sign
up, just like out of loyalty,cause that's what they know.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
They know to be a part of a team and to protect
their community, yes, and so thelevel of what would kick, you
know, push someone back fromthat type of service and showing
up and perform, you know,saying you got the orders, it's
time to go.
It would be, you know, theoutside observer, especially
(18:16):
someone who's never been in themilitary, would look at it and
not understand that part thatyou just mentioned and say, well
, that was clearly an illegalorder.
But for someone that's insidethe military it would take a
much higher bar.
I feel like to push againstthat team mentality.
To push against that teammentality.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So the egregiousness has to be much more higher and
more obvious and more, justinsulting to your sense of
what's right For a soldier thatbar is much higher than that
outside observer, that civilian,or especially the crunchy
hippies that we were reallytalking about.
Take a look at the Mai Lau, themassacre where the helicopter
pilot turned his guns onAmerican soldiers and held them
at bay, like we're not killingthese innocent people anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
You guys, we're done with this.
That takes a lot to go againstthis.
How terrible.
What did this person see?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It had to be horrific Right yeah, because this is a
helicopter pilot that's beenbombing to be right, right, yeah
, cause this is a helicopterpilot that was that's been
bombing villages, you know.
So, yeah, but, but, but people,yeah, but they know that line
and using like American soldierson American citizens is a line
that should never have beencrossed for, you know, for
picking up weeds and like yousaid, like like now that you
(19:24):
said that about just likenormalizing it, uh, cause I did
talk to a friend and he's like,yeah, they're, they're at the
train stations, you know,they're everywhere I walk,
everywhere where you see them.
Uh, yeah, you normalize themand then you can activate them.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, yeah, normalize the presence, and it affects
both sides, it affects thepopulation of where they're at
and it affects the soldiersthemselves.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Crazy, uh.
The last kind of thing that Iwanted to touch on today was the
current recent firings at theCDC or actually it's not even
firings now, cause I guess she'suh, uh, suing them.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Um so no, that person was at the bank, the federal
bank, the one, the per no.
This is a brand, new one brandnew one.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, so the the head of the CDC.
Yeah, so the head of the CDCgot the tweet about being fired
and she's like no, I'm apresidential nominee, I refuse
this.
And so she's taking it to thelaw.
Like three or four of thepeople right underneath her,
(20:28):
like the immunizations guy,respiratory illnesses uh, he
resigned.
So, deputy director, right.
So like there's been like fourlike high level doctors
resigning because just enough isenough for them political
pressure outside of science isnot what they signed up right,
you know the like the covidvaccine.
um, they estimate, against cdcnumbers, like three million
people that they saved with thatand for all the folks that got,
you know, covid, after they gotthe vaccine, it could have been
(20:49):
worse.
You know all the folks that'snever gotten it like, count your
blessings, um, but to todemonize science and technology
so that we can roll back theclock Like you're.
What's crazy to me is they'rehurting their base so much.
You know what.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like it's going to hurt their base more than
anybody.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And yet you got to keep your people alive so they
can vote Right.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Right, I mean that's why they're trying to have so
many babies.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
So they just keep that fresh cycle.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So you brought it up too, with the Fed chairman that
they're trying to get rid of.
Since he couldn't get rid ofPowell, this administration
continues to flex theirauthoritarian muscle.
What is the breaking point?
What do you think is it goingto take for enough of his folks
to realize that this guy is notthe person we want?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, if we go back to our historical references, um
, the scientific communityduring world war two, in a lot
of uh, certain, in certain partsof the world, certain countries
, scientists were, uh, also samething.
It was required that scientistshad to be silenced or rebuked
or ostracized so that if theyspoke out against you know, the
(22:00):
idea of eugenics or the idea ofthe racist concepts of you know
certain regimes, right, they'relike, no, that's not backed by
anything that we understand.
Right, those people would bedisappeared.
And so the function of needingto control the message, control
the narrative, control the mediaand have that, even something
like science in lockstep withthe rest of the message.
(22:20):
It abuses those folks, likescientists, right, when they are
caught between politicalaffiliation, which most of them
doesn't affect theirprofessional ideas at all, right
, or their professional ideasand basically their obligations
as doctors and scientists thatare doing medical research,
because they take their own oath.
It's not trivial for them thatthey can't just capitulate to
(22:42):
political pressure.
But does society get up in armswhen a totalitarian or
authoritarian regime pushes onthe scientists to shut them up?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It doesn't usually get the regular population
stirred up Because thescientists are smart enough to
just leave and go to anothercountry, they do, you know.
And when smart, when smartpeople start leaving like let's
tell you something.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Who's left to be in charge?
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And that's really in this particular example of the
CDC and the vaccine boards and,you know, department of Health
and Human Services, all of thatthat is.
You know you got to be worriedwhen people that have no medical
background are getting put intopositions of leadership over
(23:32):
100 percent purely medicalgovernment activities.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, it's going to be like what's happening.
Yeah, it's going to be like thewinner of season seven of the
Apprentice gets to be the newhead of the CDC.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
People that have PhDs and so they're getting put into
these leadership positions, butthey're not medical doctors,
PhDs in other things you know,you know accounting and stuff
like philosophy.
That's not.
You know medical at all, Right,and so that's again.
It's a, it's a fake, the funkkind of thing.
Like, oh well, all thelegitimate medical doctors don't
(24:03):
want to work here, so we'lljust go, we'll hire someone who
is a doctor, yeah, but they'venever.
They've ran businesses theirwhole life.
They've never had anything todo with medicine, right, Right?
And so that's exactly whatwe're seeing happen right now.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, and they have no problem looking at numbers
and saying this makes sensemonetarily to cut this, cut this
, cut this.
They don't care.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
That's true, yeah, if you insult what you know,
especially Donald Trump's typeof business people, I guess you
would say, yeah, I'm not reallysure how you define that, but I
think we all understand whatthat means.
If that's who he's croning youknow he's putting them in those
croning positions then yes,that's a recipe for serious
(24:45):
problems.
So to your question of where'sthe breaking point, man, well,
people passing away from measleswas the breaking point for some
, right.
So that's something that's.
It broke the water for somepeople, right, and they had to
leave.
Some people right and they hadto leave.
I don't really know.
You know how the there's.
There's no, there's no way forKennedy's not going to push back
(25:12):
on anything.
He's there to break everythingjust the same, as everybody else
right Like it.
So I don't know, man.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, and it's again got to be noted that the folks
that are pushing for all theseyou know cutbacks on health
issues, they all have billionsof dollars to fall back on to
fund their own personal healthcare, while also receiving
socialized health care fromtaxpayers if they need it to.
But they can still hop on theirprivate jets and go wherever
(25:36):
they want to get whatever theywant, you know.
So, like yeah, it's easy to behealthy.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
That's actually not a bad idea, that you know.
Flying your private jet down toSouth America to get you know
laser treatment on your cancerand then flying back is still
cheaper than going to a regularhospital in America Right Cancer
, right yeah.
Like I'll fly down there twicea week if I have to, yeah, that
one Kentucky senator, Rand Paul.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
He did that.
He had some procedure done upin Canada because it was cheaper
for him to go up there, andit's like you just voted against
giving people healthcare inyour community and you hop on
your plane to go get well,whatever, I can't remember what
it was.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I mean, he's Dr Rand Paul too, right?
So like he, there's no doubtthat he understands the optics
of that as a politician.
But I guess at the same time hewas like I'm going to get the
best doctor in the world to dothis to me.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, he's like I'm in R plus 15.
They can't touch me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So I'll just let in a little secret.
I like Rand Paul.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I liked his dad.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, I like him.
I mean, let me say it this way,I like him because he's a
rabble rouser.
He throws stones at both sidesall day and that means he's hard
to get along with.
And, yes, he falls on whatpeople would call the wrong side
of what makes sense sometimes,but when?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
people really get carried away with fiscal
nonsense.
He'll stand in there and justbe like you guys, this is so
dumb, you know, and just telleverybody yeah, and he is
consistent with it, and that'syou know what I liked about Ron
Paul the manifesto that he wroteback in like 2006 or something
like that, was really good.
I really appreciated that book.
But like that's the BernieSanders of the right yes.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And that's down.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You know they're libertarians they are, so, um,
that's why I like theirfinancial position.
But you know probably, I know Ioften don't agree with their
social uh context of how theyvote and that's that's something
that uh the function ofpolitics and how much social and
cultural stuff gets wrapped upinto what should be a lot more
(27:46):
straightforward or calculated, Ishould say.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So squishy and emotional but much more numbers
and hard, you know hard numbersand things that actually
calculate.
And so when I hear somebodylike Rand Paul have that
position of being able to talknumbers that calculate but then
turn around and vote totally onemotional topics and and like
swing real hard to the right toemotionalize the base, yeah I'm
(28:09):
like come on man yeah.
Yeah, like the chance atchanging the tone of something.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Right, yeah, everything, everything rings
hollow after that If you stilljust capitulate to whatever they
want.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yes, it's like and, and that is the you know to wrap
up this topic, I guess, as faras the CDC stuff, I don't think
there's an end insight to this.
I guess the people it seemslike there's already been one
wave of some people that havebeen brought in under the crony
header and even they aredeparting- Right, see what I'm
saying, yeah.
They knew what was up when theygot there.
(28:42):
Even they are departing Right.
See what I'm saying.
Yeah, they knew what was upwhen they got there, but I think
they believed.
Well, I'm going to see the dataand see the numbers and be able
to make the case.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
They believed they were going to be the one who
could make it work.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And they couldn't.
And just a few months twomonths, three months and they're
like oh no, oh no, I got to getout of here as fast as possible
before somebody passes a billor a policy with my name on it I
do not want this to be part ofmy career record.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, it's definitely gotta be a scary having to go
to work and think about, youknow, the pressure from that
administration.
Well, you know, for in thosepositions when you show up and
you're just trying to do yourjob, take care of people, but
they've been selling thenarrative that government bad
for so long that now all thesegovernment works are showing up
with this immense pressure thatif you don't fall in line and do
(29:35):
what you're supposed to do, itdoesn't matter.
If you give them facts andnumbers, they clearly don't care
about reality.
Well, see, you don't understandwhat we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
That's really what it comes down to right.
Well yeah, those numbers wouldmake sense if you were stupid,
but that's not what we'retalking about, so I guess you're
just stupid.
That's exactly what they say.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, Just back to what we were talking about.
First, too, is the folksoutside of Union Station,
because that was another thingthat came out of that staff
meeting was a cabinet meetingwas that they're taking over
Union Station.
The government is taking overUnion Station after taking over
Intel last year.
So all of our you know smallgovernment Republicans out there
(30:17):
, it's time to say something,because they're taking over
businesses, they're taking overtransportation areas.
You know, like that, this isyour government doing this.
Yeah, Where's all the smallgovernment folks?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
The balance between the desire for law and order and
the desire for small governmentis they're diametrically
opposed, right?
You know that's, that's one ofthe breakdowns of the
libertarian fantasy is we wantto believe that everybody's
going to treat each other nice.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, just be cool.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Government to make sure that jerks don't jerk
people around Right.
But then as soon as the jerksrealize there's not very much
government around anymore, theystart jerking harder Right, and
that's where the libertarianfantasy kind of crumbles.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Everybody actually has to be inherently good for it
to work, and it's not the case,unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, One thing I did see with that thing going
on at Union Station the vetsthat were down there, they were
flying their flags upside downand that just bothers me so much
.
I understand people that wantto do it on, like the individual
level.
If you want to fly yours athome individually, that's fine.
But when you're going out therelike public messaging, like
(31:33):
you're going into battle withyour flag upside down right now,
Like take it back.
Like fly it high, put your headup high.
Like take a walk down to theIwo Jima monument and see how
they flew theirs.
Like then come back and flyyour flag right and be proud of
what that you're doing andstanding up Because they're
doing more than we can do rightnow.
Like be a leader and fly itproudly, Take it back.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, I agree the butt.
And now, ooh, I have a butt.
I've actually never been a fanof anybody flipping their flag
upside down.
I mean, even from theindividual perspective, I'm like
don't do that, Right.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah, I don't do it.
I probably never do it.
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Political distress is ?
We're not.
Now, political distress existson the spectrum of what can
become violence, right, and sothe how do you determine?
Is the system fully broken bythe fact that troops are
deployed in DC?
Is that the?
Is that for you, or that person, or that group of people?
Is that the line that provesthat political pressure has
(32:33):
slipped into what is now more onthe terms of violence, right
and where the?
If the intention of flying theflag upside down is to say that,
basically, if someone doesn'tcome and help right now, america
will cease to exist.
Right, that's the point offlying the flag upside down.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Exactly that is my exact thought.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
That's saying like hey, canada, we need you guys.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yes, that's it.
Yeah, yeah, we are asking forsupport.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, we need geese and maple syrup now.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, and if the geese can have bullets, but the
you know that.
To me, that's the definition ofwhy the flag would ever be
flipped upside down.
Yeah, you're in distress, andAmerica may not exist if you are
not rescued or supported.
Yes, and so protest and doingit as political speech is the
inappropriate thing that I thinkwe're both talking about.
Right, flying the flag upsidedown as political speech is
(33:23):
counterintuitive to being aveteran and going right to yeah
say, because when you honor youroath right right?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
yeah, that's the point.
Is the flag code?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
people honor your oath.
Yeah right, do that with theflag, the right way up yeah,
because you're encouraging themto be on the right team right
yeah, that's the point of themessage yeah, is join the
correct team.
Yeah, the team where the flagis the right way up.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yes, Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree 100%.
I'm glad that we landed on thesame page Because, yeah, I mean
it draws an emotional reactionfrom me, but I don't want the
defeat.
Emotional reaction Like I don'twant to feel you know defeat as
soon as I see them, you knowwhat I mean.
Like take our flag back, fly itproudly, take the gatson flag
(34:05):
too, because I I like that flag.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah like I like the step on the snake.
I I do, yeah, uh, I'm fromtexas and I feel like it's, it's
had.
You know, people from texashave that, had that mentality
even before it's more recent,like resurgence or popularity is
a conservative icon, right, Ifeel like that, don't tread on
me.
Mentality is kind of part ofthe Lone Star State kind of
mentality, yeah, and so it'salways been appealing to me as
well and I liked it.
(34:28):
When I was deployed toAfghanistan, the Navy folks were
wearing that on their sleeve aslike their combat patch,
because they were wearing likeArmy ACU type uniform.
And so they had all this, youknow, fuzzy space authorized to
cover up some of that fuzzyspace on the Velcro Right and
the Gadsden flag, a version ofit excuse me, it's a little bit
different, the one they have isa little bit different, but they
have that authorized to wear ontheir uniform, right?
(34:51):
Yeah, yeah, because it was theNavy's first battle flag, or
something like that.
Oh, interesting it was on oneof the first commissioned ships,
flew that flag in first, likebattle.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, I love Navy history.
They got some of the coolestthings.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, so that's why it was authorized for wearing
that war campaign.
Like it can always be chosen bya commander to be represented.
That's cool, their shipbasically, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Right on.
Well, that's going to do it forour episode this week.
Thanks for tuning in.
To left face, dick, thanks forjoining me.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Thank you, Adam.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Left Face.
I am your co-host, adam Gillard, along with Dick Wilkinson.
How are you doing this morning,dick?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Good morning, adam, I'm doing well.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good, good, good.
Yeah.
Left Face is your Pikes PeakRegion's political podcast,
brought to you by a couple ofveterans just trying to give our
perspective on things.
Before we get started into ourbig discussion today, I want to
cover a couple of local eventsthat are coming up.
One I don't think it'll get outin time, but two folks are
(00:29):
giving a presentation atIndivisible tonight Rob and
Melissa, about Christiannationalism Phenomenal
presentation, so I'll try to getthat link posted along with the
show notes and things like that.
They usually record it andthere's one from a couple of
years ago on our website thatI'm sure is going to be updated
with more current events andnumbers and figures, because
they're the ones that reallypulled out that the district 20
(00:51):
school board elections raisedlike half a million dollars in
dark money.
So they do a lot of researchand it's an incredible
presentation that they put on.
So look for a link for thatfrom us.
Another big thing that we haveis this Sunday.
Phil Weiser was looking to comeinto town and talk to some vets
and things like that, so we setsomething up at the IBEW hall
on Sunday for him to come down.
(01:13):
He's running for governor nowand I've heard him speak a few
times.
He changes the energy in a roomwhen he speaks, which is not
what all political candidatescan do.
So if you can make it out forthat, that'd be great.
And then Monday we're going tohave another protest downtown,
so that'll be at Bancroft Park.
There's going to be a laborunion picnic, you know that
(01:36):
starts off the day, and thendown at City Hall we'll be
protesting at like one o'clock,I think, when we start there.
So a lot of activities thisweekend to stay current in your
community.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I think I'm going to be attending that one on Sunday.
Like you know, I'm 60% 70%without having a plan, I think
you know, I've got it penciledin.
Yeah, I've got it penciled in,yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, whenever these guys come to town, you know
they're looking for ourexperience, the story.
So you got to show up and letthem know what's going on.
And it's, you know, busyweekend here in Colorado Springs
anyways, because of the balloonliftoff and everything like
that.
I don't know, have you beendown to that ever?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
No, I mean Albuquerque was big on hot air.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's right, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you're kind of from themotherland there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I know people from New Mexico that come up here for
that event.
So that reminds me I should getin touch with them if they're
going to be in town, because Ihave one buddy that I used to
fly with right.
I would crew his balloon andfly with him and stuff, and so
if he comes up here, I could geta ride.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh, that'd be pretty sweet.
Yeah, they'll do littletouchdowns in a prospect lake
and try to take off from it.
Yeah, touch and go's in thewater Doesn't always.
That's what we're here for.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Since we're on our side trek here the first time I
ever rode in one I've ridden init three times now I think, oh
cool.
But the first time I ever rodein a hot air balloon, it was me,
my son and the pilot, the guythat owns the balloon and we
were coming down.
You know there's no brakes,right, right, we've got to say
there's no brakes.
So lateral movement is theenemy of a landing, right, okay,
(03:04):
you want to be able to justfloat down and like just touch
down, yeah.
But if you're moving, you knowsideways you're going to drag,
yeah, right, and you also can'tland on.
Usually it's harder to land onthings like parking lots and
flat surfaces, for that reason.
Uh, you want to land in softerstuff like sand or grass?
Yeah, man, we landed in a sandylike dry riverbed thing and
(03:25):
just basket, tipped over and theballoon, you know, yawed a bit
and then came back up and thenwe took off and went another
like 20 yards and landed again.
Dang, it was a rough, it was arough deal is that?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
is that like standard landing?
No no, that that was I've we.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
I mean out there it happens quite a bit, yeah, you
got to be ready for it everytime.
Yeah, yeah, that's basically it.
You got to be ready for that tohappen every time.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, that'd be cool, but yeah, so it's a busy
weekend here.
But the rally you know, therallies around town we haven't
been getting as much during thesummer, you know.
I think October's will be a lotbigger, I think October's will
be a lot bigger.
But I just want to point outthe importance of people still
coming out and just showingsolidarity with all the causes
that are going on right now.
There's so much thateverybody's kind of upset about.
(04:17):
It's good to go out there and,you know, be a part of the
community and find where you canput that energy, because not
all of us can be like the folksdown at Union Station right now.
Have you seen the Jolly Gingerand his troop down there?
So I can't remember whatplatform he's on or whatever,
but Jolly Ginger is the guy'stag and they're down there
(04:38):
occupying Union Station, makingsure that the ICE folks aren't
there, making sure that there'sno threats against violence and
things like that, and it's justa bunch of veterans.
I saw that the ICE folks hadparked on a no parking, like
they parked up on the curb andthings like that, and they just
surrounded the car and startedspeaking facts and, just you
(04:59):
know, talking about how, likethe diluted down law enforcement
that ICE provides isn't keepinganybody safe.
You know like they're nottrained like real law
enforcement officers for likecivil protections and things
like that.
You know they're traineddifferently and now they're just
being weaponized against theAmerican people, along with the
(05:20):
National Guard now too.
So you know states likeMississippi that are sending
their national guard up therewhen they have a higher merger
rate than you know pretty mucheverybody in the country.
It's absolutely so hypocriticaland just ridiculous how
everybody's kowtowing to Trumpright now it's very performative
right.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, it's every.
Every governor that wants toparticipate is is looking for
some tokens of of favors orsomething like that.
Well, I mean they know, orshowing solidarity to the I
don't know regime, if you wantto call it that.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well, there's always such a cycle of people coming in
and out of that regime too,because he's so fickle on
everything.
Yeah, everybody's jockeying forthe next position.
So it's a disgusting state ofaffairs when you look at it,
because, when you look at it,because when you look at that
staff meeting that he had theother day and they just went
around the table like, oh, youshould get a Nobel Prize because
(06:12):
you're changing the name to theDepartment of War, good job.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I guess the first time that they all sat down and
did that it worked.
I don't know whatever it workedmeans, but either they all got
some breathing room with cabinetmembers for a little while so
they could go and try and justgo back to work and not be
getting scrutinized.
or they got money out of it fromthe budget perspective of the
(06:38):
big beautiful bill is going togive.
Who can tell me I'm theprettiest, is going to get the
most money from the department.
I don't know, but whatever itwas, it must have worked.
Yeah, because that's why everytime they have a cabinet meeting
it's that it's three hours,four hours long, because the
warm-up is two hours of howbeautiful you are.
Right, and then they have maybean hour where they talk about
(07:00):
actual work.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, yeah, I think they try to get him sleepy so he
doesn't really pay attention.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Get him long into the meeting.
Just keep saying nice thingsuntil he's totally checked out,
right yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
He'll just believe whatever they tell him, and
that's how Kennedy gets awaywith removing vaccines from
shelves.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
I'm going last.
This time they're all drawnstraws of who gets to go last
instead of who gets to go first.
Usually when you want to talkto the commander, you want to go
first, right, so that you gotthe most attention in the most
time Right.
And if that person wants tojust give you more clock, you
get more clock Right.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
But if you're at the end odds are your clock got ate
up by somebody else, right, he'salready standing up as you're
talking, whatever, uh, talk tomy deputy, you know.
And so that, yeah, that's it,yeah, what's going on, and he
just your managers, exactly sohe just surrounds himself with
these, yes, men that these youknow hacks that just want to be,
(07:53):
you know, attached to hiscoattails, and yeah, and again,
again, somebody who is all overthe epstein files, who is just
incredibly dirty, shady personin general, and all these folks
are just like lining up to be inthis cult.
That's why it's so refreshingto see a group of veterans
standing outside of UnionStation and saying, like this is
(08:15):
enough, right.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I agree, yeah, and as we all you know anybody that's
listening to this, most of usbeing veterans we understand our
oath is for life, right?
If you take that oath, you takeit forever.
For commissioned officers I wastalking to Adam this morning
and if you ever received apresidential-level commission,
that's technically in place forlife as well.
(08:37):
And so when you retire, after20 years, your commission is
intact.
After 20 years, your commissionis intact, and so you're
basically it's kind of like youcould be called a forever
individual ready reserve kind ofthing, right, and but of course
you don't.
You don't have any orders orstatus, you just your
commission's on the rolls andyou're on the retired rolls.
(09:00):
It's different than resigningyour commission, which is when,
let's say, somebody does 10years, gets out as a captain and
then goes and becomes a dentist.
That person has resigned theircommission and so they are no
longer on the roles, right,interesting, and so there's a
legal status that's differentthere.
Yeah, so I was mentioning toAdam that I'm curious about the
(09:20):
idea and it would require I needa barracks lawyer, right,
preferably from the jackbarracks, but you know if I'll
take one from the infantrybarracks because you know they
figure, yeah, they have moreexposure yeah, right process and
even a jag half my platoon, youknow.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
So anyways, I'm an army guy, so you know that's I,
half my platoon, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So, anyways, I'm an army guy, so you know that's I
get to throw some rocks everynow and then.
But I'd love to have some someclarity on this because I'm
curious if, if, if someone whoholds a legal status as a
commissioned officer, if theyare at a protest and they get
injured or or, you know, we'lleven say attacked, you know
(10:07):
whatever.
I don't think the troops areout like attacking people, but
let's say there is a scuffle andone of them is they know that
they're commissioned officer,however, they've identified
themselves, whatever that is, ifa service member harmed them,
would that be the same asharming someone who's still on
orders as an officer?
From a legal perspective, isthere any greater penalty for
(10:28):
attacking a retired officerversus a regular civilian from a
UCMJ legal perspective?
I don't know.
I know that it is possible forUCMJ activity to be exercised
against someone again for therest of their life, even after
they've retired, if the crimewas committed while they were
under orders, right, and so thatUCMJ legalities extend beyond
(10:52):
just your time of service incertain cases.
So I don't know, right, like Ireally don't know what would be
official, unofficial, legal,illegal.
I don't know, yeah Right, legal, illegal, I don't know, yeah,
right, but it seems like there'san opportunity there to have
some sort of willing force ofyou know, band together type
people that would, you know, beable to at least be present,
(11:15):
like a different type ofpresence.
Yeah, at a, at a rally, protestor you know, straight up
showdown, like in la right whenthey were showdowns, sitting out
in the streets, yeah, what ifthere was a hundred people with
all with, like, green t-shirtson and that meant they were all
retired officers that were thereto, you know, discourage misuse
or illegal orders?
(11:35):
Right, basically, we're justhere to watch and observe if
illegal orders are beingexecuted.
That could be the posture,right, Not so much I'm here to
protest or I'm here to rallyagainst these troops that are
here, but I am here to see ifcommanders start to give illegal
orders or if activities thatare clearly illegal start to
happen.
Yeah, sort of an observer typething.
But of course, if you put me inharm's way, I'm also have this
(11:59):
special status and so kind oflike the press almost, you know,
in a war zone type thing, youknow.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And so kind of like the press, almost, you know, in
a war zone type thing.
You know, one thing that iskind of brought to mind is that
a lot of times, folks that arein uniform doing things just
being aggressive, in generalthey don't realize what they're
doing until they're told thatthey're doing something wrong.
Sure, you know, like once youstart going forward, you just go
forward.
If there's a wall in your way,you get through the wall.
Yeah, you know, people don'treally.
(12:27):
And just you know, recently wehad some protesters because
things are getting more testyand people are getting more
violent around town with ourprotests and things like that.
Okay, you know, we had JimJordan in town last week.
Okay, and if there's ever beena truer guardian of pedophiles
it is Jim Jordan.
Oh gosh, that dude is absolutegarbage.
(12:48):
He protected the pedophiles atOhio State when folks were
getting raped and things likethat, and now he's hiding all of
Trump's stuff.
So yeah, he's a true guardianof pedophiles right there.
So we had some folks out thereprotesting Bold statement from
Adam.
(13:08):
Thanks for educating me on that.
I mean, I believe you.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
I don't know about most of that.
I don't pay much attention tohim other than we're mad that he
never wears a jacket in theSenate floor or whatever.
And now you got an old boy fromPennsylvania.
That's like jacket.
I don't even own pants.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, we had somebody outthere and a guy you know we had
protesters, just you know, doingwhat protesters do, just
mouthing off really.
And a guy came up and wastalking and as he was talking he
took the bottle in his hand andkind of like changed his grip
on it to like to grab the handletype of thing, and he
(13:44):
approached they always go afterlike the smallest woman too
there.
It's pretty pathetic.
But as he was walking up,another guy came up and said hey
, what are you doing with thatwine bottle, holding it like
that?
And he said, like, when he saidthat to the guy, the guy looked
down at his hand and was like Idon't know, oh shit, I am kind
of holding this as a weapon andhe put it back in his hand and
(14:05):
kind of backed off.
He said it was weird to see likethat click in his mind like
wait, I am kind of beingaggressive here and holding a
weapon now into the coming intothis with a weapon.
And so, like he said, it wasinteresting, you know having you
(14:28):
know the shield of commissionedofficers, kind of protecting
folks or like kind of likewatching folks.
You know how do or why is ourmilitary personnel so
susceptible to beingindoctrinated like this to where
they just follow blindly untilthe end?
I mean, I've seen videos ofafter World War II where they
showed the Nazis videos of theconcentration camps and some of
(14:49):
the folks looking at the thingwere stoned.
They didn't show emotion butsome of them were ashamed and
you could see the shock.
But they were still wearingthat uniform every day.
They were still going out thereand just doing their job.
How do we break that and whydoes it even happen Really?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, and I think that the function of a lot of
that and the function of how somany people that would never
have signed up for beingparticipating in something like
that, I feel like it's one ofthose.
It's a slippery slope conditionof changes within you know your
environment within the military, and then there's also the
every little incremental push ofthe boundary.
You get that feeling of like isthis okay?
(15:35):
But then you can reconcile itwith like well, I haven't
arrested an American yet, Rightyeah, so I'm just going to stay
here in DC and keep doing thisbecause I haven't't gotten into
a fight or arrested an.
American, I'm just weeding themulch right now.
After you're there for likethree months, it like they say
it's normalized right, and thensomething does start to happen.
(15:56):
And then you realize, you knowyou, you don't realize, oh,
things have escalated, you justdon't feel it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
You know what I'm saying.
That's a great point, becausethe next order is legal.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Hey, these people have shown up and started to get
violent in the streets.
And then you're like, oh well,now this feels like a legal
order to stop them from burningcars or something like that.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, I've been picking up trash for three
months now, Like why can't I godo something else?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
And so now the job is go downtown, stop people from
setting cars on fire and justmarch in a row to be, you know,
riot control.
Well, that feels like that islegal Right.
And and then you know nextthing you know you are arresting
an American, you are beating anAmerican with some weapon.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yeah, cause people aren't standing down, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
And now you're like, what, what?
Like?
You said what is happening.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
You know like.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I am in a fistfight with an American citizen how I'm
not a police officer?
How did this happen?
And then it's too late, right?
Then you're just in it.
It's the boiling frog kind ofsituation, I think, for most
people that are never presentedwith the clear black and white
(17:03):
Join the side of evil, join thedark side or join the light side
.
It just this is not whathappens.
You know, yeah, there's veryfew people that get to just face
that decision throughout theprocess.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, and earlier you mentioned the plan process that
goes through justindoctrinating people into the
military.
You know they always talk aboutbreaking people down and
building you back up and youknow making sure that you're a
part of the team.
And yeah, you know that thatmindset though, wanting to be a
part of the team, it's very easyfor outside nefarious
(17:33):
organizations, especially aspeople are leaving, yeah, and be
like, hey, we're, we're still ateam over here, you can be a
part of this and we're doingsomething special.
We're, we're protecting ourcommunity.
Yes, you know, and you just saythings like that without saying
like who you're protecting themagainst, and people will sign
up, just like out of loyalty,cause that's what they know.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
They know to be a part of a team and to protect
their community, yes, and so thelevel of what would kick, you
know, push someone back fromthat type of service and showing
up and perform, you know,saying you got the orders, it's
time to go.
It would be, you know, theoutside observer, especially
(18:16):
someone who's never been in themilitary, would look at it and
not understand that part thatyou just mentioned and say, well
, that was clearly an illegalorder.
But for someone that's insidethe military it would take a
much higher bar.
I feel like to push againstthat team mentality.
To push against that teammentality.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So the egregiousness has to be much more higher and
more obvious and more, justinsulting to your sense of
what's right For a soldier thatbar is much higher than that
outside observer, that civilian,or especially the crunchy
hippies that we were reallytalking about.
Take a look at the Mai Lau, themassacre where the helicopter
pilot turned his guns onAmerican soldiers and held them
at bay, like we're not killingthese innocent people anymore.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
You guys, we're done with this.
That takes a lot to go againstthis.
How terrible.
What did this person see?
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It had to be horrific Right yeah, because this is a
helicopter pilot that's beenbombing to be right, right, yeah
, cause this is a helicopterpilot that was that's been
bombing villages, you know.
So, yeah, but, but, but people,yeah, but they know that line
and using like American soldierson American citizens is a line
that should never have beencrossed for, you know, for
picking up weeds and like yousaid, like like now that you
(19:24):
said that about just likenormalizing it, uh, cause I did
talk to a friend and he's like,yeah, they're, they're at the
train stations, you know,they're everywhere I walk,
everywhere where you see them.
Uh, yeah, you normalize themand then you can activate them.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, yeah, normalize the presence, and it affects
both sides, it affects thepopulation of where they're at
and it affects the soldiersthemselves.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Crazy, uh.
The last kind of thing that Iwanted to touch on today was the
current recent firings at theCDC or actually it's not even
firings now, cause I guess she'suh, uh, suing them.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Um so no, that person was at the bank, the federal
bank, the one, the per no.
This is a brand, new one brandnew one.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, so the the head of the CDC.
Yeah, so the head of the CDCgot the tweet about being fired
and she's like no, I'm apresidential nominee, I refuse
this.
And so she's taking it to thelaw.
Like three or four of thepeople right underneath her,
(20:28):
like the immunizations guy,respiratory illnesses uh, he
resigned.
So, deputy director, right.
So like there's been like fourlike high level doctors
resigning because just enough isenough for them political
pressure outside of science isnot what they signed up right,
you know the like the covidvaccine.
um, they estimate, against cdcnumbers, like three million
people that they saved with thatand for all the folks that got,
you know, covid, after they gotthe vaccine, it could have been
(20:49):
worse.
You know all the folks that'snever gotten it like, count your
blessings, um, but to todemonize science and technology
so that we can roll back theclock Like you're.
What's crazy to me is they'rehurting their base so much.
You know what.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Like it's going to hurt their base more than
anybody.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
And yet you got to keep your people alive so they
can vote Right.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Right, I mean that's why they're trying to have so
many babies.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
So they just keep that fresh cycle.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
So you brought it up too, with the Fed chairman that
they're trying to get rid of.
Since he couldn't get rid ofPowell, this administration
continues to flex theirauthoritarian muscle.
What is the breaking point?
What do you think is it goingto take for enough of his folks
to realize that this guy is notthe person we want?
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Well, if we go back to our historical references, um
, the scientific communityduring world war two, in a lot
of uh, certain, in certain partsof the world, certain countries
, scientists were, uh, also samething.
It was required that scientistshad to be silenced or rebuked
or ostracized so that if theyspoke out against you know, the
(22:00):
idea of eugenics or the idea ofthe racist concepts of you know
certain regimes, right, they'relike, no, that's not backed by
anything that we understand.
Right, those people would bedisappeared.
And so the function of needingto control the message, control
the narrative, control the mediaand have that, even something
like science in lockstep withthe rest of the message.
(22:20):
It abuses those folks, likescientists, right, when they are
caught between politicalaffiliation, which most of them
doesn't affect theirprofessional ideas at all, right
, or their professional ideasand basically their obligations
as doctors and scientists thatare doing medical research,
because they take their own oath.
It's not trivial for them thatthey can't just capitulate to
(22:42):
political pressure.
But does society get up in armswhen a totalitarian or
authoritarian regime pushes onthe scientists to shut them up?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
It doesn't usually get the regular population
stirred up Because thescientists are smart enough to
just leave and go to anothercountry, they do, you know.
And when smart, when smartpeople start leaving like let's
tell you something.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Who's left to be in charge?
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And that's really in this particular example of the
CDC and the vaccine boards and,you know, department of Health
and Human Services, all of thatthat is.
You know you got to be worriedwhen people that have no medical
background are getting put intopositions of leadership over
(23:32):
100 percent purely medicalgovernment activities.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, it's going to be like what's happening.
Yeah, it's going to be like thewinner of season seven of the
Apprentice gets to be the newhead of the CDC.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
People that have PhDs and so they're getting put into
these leadership positions, butthey're not medical doctors,
PhDs in other things you know,you know accounting and stuff
like philosophy.
That's not.
You know medical at all, Right,and so that's again.
It's a, it's a fake, the funkkind of thing.
Like, oh well, all thelegitimate medical doctors don't
(24:03):
want to work here, so we'lljust go, we'll hire someone who
is a doctor, yeah, but they'venever.
They've ran businesses theirwhole life.
They've never had anything todo with medicine, right, Right?
And so that's exactly whatwe're seeing happen right now.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, and they have no problem looking at numbers
and saying this makes sensemonetarily to cut this, cut this
, cut this.
They don't care.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
That's true, yeah, if you insult what you know,
especially Donald Trump's typeof business people, I guess you
would say, yeah, I'm not reallysure how you define that, but I
think we all understand whatthat means.
If that's who he's croning youknow he's putting them in those
croning positions then yes,that's a recipe for serious
(24:45):
problems.
So to your question of where'sthe breaking point, man, well,
people passing away from measleswas the breaking point for some
, right.
So that's something that's.
It broke the water for somepeople, right, and they had to
leave.
Some people right and they hadto leave.
I don't really know.
You know how the there's.
There's no, there's no way forKennedy's not going to push back
(25:12):
on anything.
He's there to break everythingjust the same, as everybody else
right Like it.
So I don't know, man.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Yeah, and it's again got to be noted that the folks
that are pushing for all theseyou know cutbacks on health
issues, they all have billionsof dollars to fall back on to
fund their own personal healthcare, while also receiving
socialized health care fromtaxpayers if they need it to.
But they can still hop on theirprivate jets and go wherever
(25:36):
they want to get whatever theywant, you know.
So, like yeah, it's easy to behealthy.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
That's actually not a bad idea, that you know.
Flying your private jet down toSouth America to get you know
laser treatment on your cancerand then flying back is still
cheaper than going to a regularhospital in America Right Cancer
, right yeah.
Like I'll fly down there twicea week if I have to, yeah, that
one Kentucky senator, Rand Paul.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
He did that.
He had some procedure done upin Canada because it was cheaper
for him to go up there, andit's like you just voted against
giving people healthcare inyour community and you hop on
your plane to go get well,whatever, I can't remember what
it was.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
I mean, he's Dr Rand Paul too, right?
So like he, there's no doubtthat he understands the optics
of that as a politician.
But I guess at the same time hewas like I'm going to get the
best doctor in the world to dothis to me.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Well, he's like I'm in R plus 15.
They can't touch me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
So I'll just let in a little secret.
I like Rand Paul.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I liked his dad.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Yeah, I like him.
I mean, let me say it this way,I like him because he's a
rabble rouser.
He throws stones at both sidesall day and that means he's hard
to get along with.
And, yes, he falls on whatpeople would call the wrong side
of what makes sense sometimes,but when?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
people really get carried away with fiscal
nonsense.
He'll stand in there and justbe like you guys, this is so
dumb, you know, and just telleverybody yeah, and he is
consistent with it, and that'syou know what I liked about Ron
Paul the manifesto that he wroteback in like 2006 or something
like that, was really good.
I really appreciated that book.
But like that's the BernieSanders of the right yes.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
You know yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And that's down.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
You know they're libertarians they are, so, um,
that's why I like theirfinancial position.
But you know probably, I know Ioften don't agree with their
social uh context of how theyvote and that's that's something
that uh the function ofpolitics and how much social and
cultural stuff gets wrapped upinto what should be a lot more
(27:46):
straightforward or calculated, Ishould say.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
So squishy and emotional but much more numbers
and hard, you know hard numbersand things that actually
calculate.
And so when I hear somebodylike Rand Paul have that
position of being able to talknumbers that calculate but then
turn around and vote totally onemotional topics and and like
swing real hard to the right toemotionalize the base, yeah I'm
(28:09):
like come on man yeah.
Yeah, like the chance atchanging the tone of something.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Right, yeah, everything, everything rings
hollow after that If you stilljust capitulate to whatever they
want.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yes, it's like and, and that is the you know to wrap
up this topic, I guess, as faras the CDC stuff, I don't think
there's an end insight to this.
I guess the people it seemslike there's already been one
wave of some people that havebeen brought in under the crony
header and even they aredeparting- Right, see what I'm
saying, yeah.
They knew what was up when theygot there.
(28:42):
Even they are departing Right.
See what I'm saying.
Yeah, they knew what was upwhen they got there, but I think
they believed.
Well, I'm going to see the dataand see the numbers and be able
to make the case.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
They believed they were going to be the one who
could make it work.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And they couldn't.
And just a few months twomonths, three months and they're
like oh no, oh no, I got to getout of here as fast as possible
before somebody passes a billor a policy with my name on it I
do not want this to be part ofmy career record.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, it's definitely gotta be a scary having to go
to work and think about, youknow, the pressure from that
administration.
Well, you know, for in thosepositions when you show up and
you're just trying to do yourjob, take care of people, but
they've been selling thenarrative that government bad
for so long that now all thesegovernment works are showing up
with this immense pressure thatif you don't fall in line and do
(29:35):
what you're supposed to do, itdoesn't matter.
If you give them facts andnumbers, they clearly don't care
about reality.
Well, see, you don't understandwhat we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
That's really what it comes down to right.
Well yeah, those numbers wouldmake sense if you were stupid,
but that's not what we'retalking about, so I guess you're
just stupid.
That's exactly what they say.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, Just back to what we were talking about.
First, too, is the folksoutside of Union Station,
because that was another thingthat came out of that staff
meeting was a cabinet meetingwas that they're taking over
Union Station.
The government is taking overUnion Station after taking over
Intel last year.
So all of our you know smallgovernment Republicans out there
(30:17):
, it's time to say something,because they're taking over
businesses, they're taking overtransportation areas.
You know, like that, this isyour government doing this.
Yeah, Where's all the smallgovernment folks?
Speaker 2 (30:34):
The balance between the desire for law and order and
the desire for small governmentis they're diametrically
opposed, right?
You know that's, that's one ofthe breakdowns of the
libertarian fantasy is we wantto believe that everybody's
going to treat each other nice.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, just be cool.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
Government to make sure that jerks don't jerk
people around Right.
But then as soon as the jerksrealize there's not very much
government around anymore, theystart jerking harder Right, and
that's where the libertarianfantasy kind of crumbles.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Everybody actually has to be inherently good for it
to work, and it's not the case,unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, One thing I did see with that thing going
on at Union Station the vetsthat were down there, they were
flying their flags upside downand that just bothers me so much
.
I understand people that wantto do it on, like the individual
level.
If you want to fly yours athome individually, that's fine.
But when you're going out therelike public messaging, like
(31:33):
you're going into battle withyour flag upside down right now,
Like take it back.
Like fly it high, put your headup high.
Like take a walk down to theIwo Jima monument and see how
they flew theirs.
Like then come back and flyyour flag right and be proud of
what that you're doing andstanding up Because they're
doing more than we can do rightnow.
Like be a leader and fly itproudly, Take it back.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah, I agree the butt.
And now, ooh, I have a butt.
I've actually never been a fanof anybody flipping their flag
upside down.
I mean, even from theindividual perspective, I'm like
don't do that, Right.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Yeah, I don't do it.
I probably never do it.
I agree with you.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Political distress is ?
We're not.
Now, political distress existson the spectrum of what can
become violence, right, and sothe how do you determine?
Is the system fully broken bythe fact that troops are
deployed in DC?
Is that the?
Is that for you, or that person, or that group of people?
Is that the line that provesthat political pressure has
(32:33):
slipped into what is now more onthe terms of violence, right
and where the?
If the intention of flying theflag upside down is to say that,
basically, if someone doesn'tcome and help right now, america
will cease to exist.
Right, that's the point offlying the flag upside down.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
Exactly that is my exact thought.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
That's saying like hey, canada, we need you guys.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yes, that's it.
Yeah, yeah, we are asking forsupport.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, we need geese and maple syrup now.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Yeah, and if the geese can have bullets, but the
you know that.
To me, that's the definition ofwhy the flag would ever be
flipped upside down.
Yeah, you're in distress, andAmerica may not exist if you are
not rescued or supported.
Yes, and so protest and doingit as political speech is the
inappropriate thing that I thinkwe're both talking about.
Right, flying the flag upsidedown as political speech is
(33:23):
counterintuitive to being aveteran and going right to yeah
say, because when you honor youroath right right?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
yeah, that's the point.
Is the flag code?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
people honor your oath.
Yeah right, do that with theflag, the right way up yeah,
because you're encouraging themto be on the right team right
yeah, that's the point of themessage yeah, is join the
correct team.
Yeah, the team where the flagis the right way up.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yes, Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree 100%.
I'm glad that we landed on thesame page Because, yeah, I mean
it draws an emotional reactionfrom me, but I don't want the
defeat.
Emotional reaction Like I don'twant to feel you know defeat as
soon as I see them, you knowwhat I mean.
Like take our flag back, fly itproudly, take the gatson flag
(34:05):
too, because I I like that flag.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah like I like the step on the snake.
I I do, yeah, uh, I'm fromtexas and I feel like it's, it's
had.
You know, people from texashave that, had that mentality
even before it's more recent,like resurgence or popularity is
a conservative icon, right, Ifeel like that, don't tread on
me.
Mentality is kind of part ofthe Lone Star State kind of
mentality, yeah, and so it'salways been appealing to me as
well and I liked it.
(34:28):
When I was deployed toAfghanistan, the Navy folks were
wearing that on their sleeve aslike their combat patch,
because they were wearing likeArmy ACU type uniform.
And so they had all this, youknow, fuzzy space authorized to
cover up some of that fuzzyspace on the Velcro Right and
the Gadsden flag, a version ofit excuse me, it's a little bit
different, the one they have isa little bit different, but they
have that authorized to wear ontheir uniform, right?
(34:51):
Yeah, yeah, because it was theNavy's first battle flag, or
something like that.
Oh, interesting it was on oneof the first commissioned ships,
flew that flag in first, likebattle.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, I love Navy history.
They got some of the coolestthings.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah, so that's why it was authorized for wearing
that war campaign.
Like it can always be chosen bya commander to be represented.
That's cool, their shipbasically, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Right on.
Well, that's going to do it forour episode this week.
Thanks for tuning in.
To left face, dick, thanks forjoining me.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Thank you, Adam.
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