#34 - Dan Humphrey, Vanessa Abrams, and A Bunch of ‘Overprivileged, Underparented Trust Fund Brats’ (Analyzing Class Dynamics on ‘Gossip Girl’) - Leftist Teen Drama

Episode Transcript
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Hey. I'm Maria. I work at a labor union by day and write and watch too much TV by night. I like to say I've been firmly in The CW's clutches since it was The WB. As the great Seth Cohen on The OC once said about the fictional teen drama, The Valley, TV teen dramas are mind numbing escapism.

(00:01):
They exist in a fantasy world where 20 something hot actors are usually cosplaying high schoolers in melodramatic depictions of adolescents. But that's honestly why I love teen dramas so much. I love the tropes and the ships and the not at all subtle product placement. I love the early offs theme songs and the cameo performances by pop punk bands. I love the newer generation of shows that are more diverse and representative of the vastness of teenage girldom.
And I especially love the moments when TV teen dramas get political. You guys, we can organize, stand together, speak with one voice. Karl Marx has come alive for me today. Now it just seems so obviously wrong that those who control capital should make their fortunes off the labor of the working class. Well, since you've fired us, you've given us plenty of time to pick in.
Workers of the world, you're not profiting. Long live the revolution. Welcome to another episode of Leftisteen Drama and specifically the season 4 finale. We made it the end of the year. This was my year of procrastinating so much that I'm recording this in mid December with my 2 lovely guests.
And we're actually doing, like, kind of like a what's the word? Like, listener request. I feel like I've had a lot of people over the years be like, when are you gonna do Gossip Girl? And so we're giving the people what they want, and we're talking about Gossip Girl to close out season 4. I'm super excited to be reintroducing one of my childhood friends, Laura Marino, and for the first time welcoming S, who actually, hilariously, we quoted some of their work previously, and they were so awesome to join us for this episode.
So did you guys each just wanna maybe, like, introduce yourselves? Yes. Hi. I'm Laura. I'm thrilled to be back on the pod.
I have been on 2 other episodes of leftist team drama. If any of you remember, the Gilmore Girls episode and also the WGA strike from last season, where we went over both the 2007 and the 2023 writer strengths. And, yeah, I'm really excited to be back with Gossip Girl, a book series and a show that is dear to me. So we will definitely get into it, and looking forward to it. Hi.
I'm s, also known as StridaPride, which is my Tumblr username where I've been posting about Gossip Girl pretty religiously now for about 4 ish years. Maybe maybe it's been 5 years. Jesus Christ. That's scary. And it's been a big chunk of my life the last few years for sure.
And, yeah, first time on the pod. Very excited to be here. Although, yes, I was quoted one of my Tumblr posts was quoted. I think that was the writer strike episode. It was.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is how I got connected to Maria because I reached out and was, like, hey, that's me. Yeah.
As when I became mutuals, and it was very clear from being mutuals that we have extremely similar politics. So very excited to have you on and to have just, like this is actually a perfect transition into our relationships to Gossip Girl. Just to have people with more encyclopedic knowledges of Gossip Girl than I. Because my relationship with Gossip Girl is that back when it first came out so me and Laura, let's be real, we became friends in, like, 6th grade, so we probably talked about the Gossip Girl books. We both loved them.
And so when this show came out, I had, like, very high expectations, I guess, I would say. Yeah. We were anticipating it because we had read the books. Yes. And I guess, for whatever reason, it, like, wasn't doing it for me.
I think I watched the first few episodes of the first season back when it aired and then fell off. But to be fair, I fell off of lots of shows that I eventually, like, rewatched and like 1 Tree Hill, for example, I later went back and watched as an adult. And now, it's, like, totally a comfort show. But with Gossip Girl, like, I definitely enjoy it. I finally went back and watched it.
I wanna say, like, maybe, like, 4 or 5 years ago, actually. Like, around probably the time that you started blogging about it, f. And finally watched it all the way through, had a really fun time, but I definitely felt like I don't have the same relationship to this show that I know a lot of other people do. And I don't know, like, what it is, but I do like a lot of the characters. I think that it's really fun, but like, I have some shit preferences, but I don't feel like I have, like, an OTP on this show.
Maybe that's part of it. But I don't know. What are your guys' relationship with the Gossip Girl? Like Maria said, I had read the books in it must have been early middle school because it's before the show came out, which would have been, like, our 8th grade fall. Yeah.
I remember, like, 6th grade. I remember friends reading them. They were really fun and, like, felt pretty scandalous. So I reread the first book and almost all of, like, an another later one in the series that just, like, happened to be I could get the ebook from the library. And yeah.
Like, they're definitely because so to backtrack a little bit, I feel like we first have started reading, like, we're into, like, the Clickbooks, which is definitely for the middle school set. And then Gossip Girl, they were in high school, and they were drinking, and they were having sex. It was, like, cool and fun and, like, very scandalous to be reading at that time. And so they definitely were very popular at that age. So that would have been, I guess, like, 2,006 ish.
And clearly, they were popular enough that the CW, which I think that was, like, the very infancy of the CW that might have been, like, the first maybe the 2nd year of The CW. You know, wanted to turn it into a TV show. So I definitely remember I don't even know, like, how I would have heard about it because obviously, there wasn't social media in the same way. It's not like I was following, like, the TV critics that I do now. I was active on, like, Gilmore Girls forums, so I think maybe it was On the same network?
Yeah. And I was following, like, Michael Ausiello had his Wow. Like a blog. I don't even know how I would have, like, found this information, but maybe, like, from him. I don't really know.
But regardless, I knew that the show was coming. So I definitely was, like, hotly anticipating. I definitely watched from the beginning. I think I, like, continued to watch live. It's definitely significantly different from the books, which I was fine with.
Because I pretty quickly was like, oh, this is just its own thing and did not mind that. Although, I do think it's interesting to look at kind of how they were adapted, and we can talk about that a little bit later. I also would not say I have, like, strong shit feelings. I'm most interested in, like, Blair, I would say is my favorite character. So I'm most interested in all of the shit that goes on around her to various degrees and to various degrees of success.
So, yeah, I would say, like, she's kind of my main focus. And I would say she, I think, is the character who's most consistent from book to TV series. I have never read the Gossip Girl books to this day. Probably never will. Yeah.

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I mean, I'm sorry. Why were you either? Yeah. It's more just like, you know, I've seen excerpts from it and it's obviously for, you know, a middle grade audience which as someone who got into Gossip Girl as an adult, it's just it's just not for me. Exactly.
I need to read a little more stuff before I'll my brain will atrophy. No offense if what's her name? Cecily. Is it Cecily? If she's listening, alright.
But anyway, I didn't watch the show live either. I was actually I guess I'm a little younger than the guys. I was like 10 when that show premiered, so I was actually too I wasn't allowed to watch Gossip Girl. Although I did have some friends who had like older sisters who were able to watch it. Mhmm.
And between that and just like, you know, being on the Internet and whatnot. Like, I definitely got exposed to Gossip Girl through cultural osmosis long before I ever watched it. Like, I was definitely admittedly seeing, like, Dan and Blair GIFs on Tumblr from, like, probably the moment I joined Tumblr. Like, I definitely was familiar with, like, some of the arcs and storylines that were to come, but I never actually watched it for real until it was stuck. Actually, when you started watching, do you feel like seeing stuff on Tumblr, like, primed you to be like, oh, okay.
When are Dan and Blair gonna get together? Or being like, I've liked the ship from afar. I should watch the show for real. Like, I definitely went into it with that mindset. Yeah.
It's like a window shipping. Yeah. I think I've heard I've called on that before. Yeah. That's the only to be fair to myself and Dan and Blair, this isn't the only show I've ever done that with.
Like, I definitely watched Once Upon A Time because of Eminem Hook, which is ironic because by the time I watched it, that was not my favorite ship on that show. But anyway, yeah. So I first watched it the fall of 2019. I just graduated college. I was at, like, my first full time job, and I got so into it.
I remember, like, watching it on my lunch break. Like, that was my lunch break. I just, like, would watch an episode of Gossip Girl while I ate, and I just, like, mainline that show the fall of 2019. And then COVID obviously happened, and I was home with a lot of free time, and I started posting about Gossip Girl on Tumblr. And, yeah, now it became I met friends from it.
Like, it's started writing fic, which I never thought I would do. Like, it really Yeah. It became a big part of my life. And as, you know, listeners at home could probably guess, Dan and Blair, after watching the show, they are my favorite TV couple of all time admittedly. I have very strong feelings about that.
And then for listeners at home, you can't see this. My profile picture right now is actually Vanessa, just because I felt it was fitting, you know, even while we're talking leftist politics today. My actual favorite character is Serena. I have Mhmm. Interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. When I watched it originally, I don't remember if I shipped anyone. But just to be clear, when I watched it as an adult, yes, I too was more into Dan and Blair than anything else. And also, Serena and Nate, they should be endgame.
It's also my those are my 2 main gossip girl shipped opinions, I would say. I was, like, confusingly very into Nate and Vanessa. Like, it shouldn't make sense, but, like, the actors just, like, were I don't hate it. They Saw it. Like, I feel like they're doing it financially.
I will I would never, like I was not, like, die hard for them, but, like, whenever they were together, I was, like, oh, okay. Like, I'm enjoying this. Meanwhile, I hate like, I I just feel like Nate as a character in the show is not really interesting and he gets all the weird story lines and is always off to the side, like, sleeping with some random older woman who for some reason wants to, like, sleep with his 18 year old. The writers definitely he did not know how to write Nate. Beyonce.
But I don't blame him so much as the writers. But yeah. I am also a big Rufus Lily fan. I'm sure I'm very into Rufus Lily. That to me like, obviously, I love Dan Blair.
Them being endgame is obviously not, like, shocking. I understand that, that, like, Chuck and Blair were always gonna be endgame. Right. It wasn't Lily not being endgame. Like, it actually blows my mind.
It's so absurd to me that they broke them up. Yeah. I actually couldn't remember if they because I knew, like, there was a lot of drama with them towards the end, but I couldn't remember if they ended the show together or not. No. He's back with William.
That's crazy. Which is ridiculous. And granted, I was not able to watch the whole show, so I definitely missed things. But it did not seem well set up to me at all. And Rufus is with, like, some random lady.
Like, is this someone that we know? Lisa Loeb. Like, the real life singer songwriter from the nineties, Lisa Loeb. Yes. It's so absurd.
Saw that. And then I remember that in one of the early seasons, they were, like, both at, like, a concert for, like, nineties, you know, like, artists or whatever. And I was like, wait, they bring that character back? Because I did not get to season 6 in my watch. I'm sorry, listeners.
But it's like, they bring her back to get together with Rufus. That's Literally, they don't. They only bring her back from that one scene. Like, you see her in the flash forward, and he ends during his wedding, but, like, they there's no setup. Wow.
They're like, oh, Rufus is reconnecting with no. It's immediately like flash forward. Oh, Rufus end up with Lisa Loeb. And you're like, what? I hate that.

(00:43):
That's lazy. Literally, when I was watching the show as, like, a 12 year old, I shipped Rufus with Lilly so much. Look, if there's adults in a teen drama, I will ship them. I will always ship them. Like, I remember I had the episode where Eric is missing, I think, from his room at the Ostroff, and then Lily goes to room as his loft because she's really worried, but she can't really tell him what's going on.
I think it's that episode. And then they cook dinner together. And then you find out about their past and, like, she was a photographer and, like, they were on tour together and they were artists and it was hot. And then something happened. And, like, I don't think you know exactly why they broke up quite yet.
And I had that episode on my, like, silver iPod classic. I purchased from iTunes. And I would watch it and be like, they should just be together forever. And then, they weren't. I'm so mad about it to this day.
Yeah. That's so real with both the Ipod classic. I remember, like, exactly which episodes I had. I know I had the Rainy Day Women of the OC on my Ipod classic. I like.
But also yeah. I mean, that basically happened to me semi recently, I think Es knows this, with watching Riverdale live and just watching the downfall of Bughead as a Bughead shipper was a lot. But I think that this show is very different from Riverdale. Riverdale kinda, like, became like Gossip Girl by the end in the way they deal with their ships, but didn't start out that way where it's, like, everybody's gonna fuck everyone. You know?
Like I mean, I mean, the classic Brave Anatomy, is so brave by ending with the polyamorous, though. Oh, of course. That's awesome. That was what got me to watch your reading. I was like, fuck yeah.
It was the funniest way to to end that whole situation. Yeah. Back to Gotham Girl. We're gonna start by talking about the books a little bit, and then we'll get into the shows. Like, as I'm sure you all know, Gotham Girl isn't really, like, an inherently political show in the way that, like, shows we've talked about, like My So Called Life or, like, All American are.
But, obviously, it does, because of the basic premise of the show, explore a lot of class dynamics and class conflict. And so that's kinda, like, gonna be our main focus today, which is why I think that we will largely end up talking about, like, Dan and Vanessa and a little bit of Jenny, perhaps. But, you know, mostly the working class characters who are thrust into the world of the upper east side that our rich characters all occupy already. 1st, before we came to the show that ended up being probably one of the most iconic teen dramas of all time, we had the book. So Laura both reread the book for us because mine is definitely in my storage unit in New Jersey, and I need to find it at some point.
Yeah. Yeah. So I reread the first book and then, like, the 7th book or something. I remembered really liking them, and I feel like they were kind of a cultural phenomenon at the time amongst my middle school crew. Yeah.
I was just curious to, like, kind of remember where we started. And so I found this article about so Cynthia Egan was the editor of the Gossip Girl series, and she also worked on, you know, other series kind of of that ilk. So like the a list, the It Girl, which was a spin off of Gossip Girl, so Jenny goes to boarding school. I did read some of those, but not all of them. And The Click, which as I think I mentioned before, that's definitely more of a middle school target audience, but it's definitely kind of of the same, you know, kind of writing, you know, female friendships kind of cattiness.
But, you know, in the end, they're gonna kiss boys, and they're not gonna kiss boys, like that kind of thing, that drama. Gossip Girl kind of became very popular when it did, which was like the early 2 1000. I think 2 1000, 2001, because I guess there really were not series of that type. It kind of aimed at teen girls that were, like, kind of, like, salacious in the way that Gossip Girl is. I guess beforehand, the teen series that existed were kind of, like, you know, cautionary tales, stories that gave a heavy handed moral lessons.
It was not about teens drinking and having fun and then, you know, going to class the next day because they did have school. People connected with it more because it was, like, just more interesting for them. Oh, I see this note also. Cecily had a cameo in season 4. It was the season 4 finale, I believe.
Okay. Like a constant alumni event thing. Oh, that's cute. Okay. The books are interesting because there's, like, a much larger world of supporting characters.
Like, I would say the world is much bigger as opposed to kind of all of these characters go to Constance and St. Jude's, which in the show are, like, brother and sister schools, but, like, they seem to be in the same building or, like, set of buildings. It's obviously a larger world that encompasses more of the city. So, like, Serena and Blair and others and Jenny go to Constance. And then Dan and Chuck go to the same school, but it's on the west side.
And then Nate goes to St. Jude's, but on his own. And he has his own crew of, like, stoner doc friends. It's just interesting to see, like, what they cut for a TV show, which totally makes sense. You need fewer people.
But, you know, it was just fun to read the books, be like, oh, wait, there actually are so many other supporting characters. The pilot of the show kind of encompasses basically the whole first book, which right there kind of shows you the not struggle, but, like, the challenge of adapting a book series like that, which, you know, in any given book, there isn't necessarily a ton going on. It's pretty pat, like, storylines start and finish. But when you're adapting it into a 22 plus episode per season TV show, you really have to come up with a lot more story very quickly, which is why, you know, I definitely got frustrated towards the end of the show. Like, okay, everyone's dating everyone else.
No one's staying together for more than 2 episodes. Like, it's kind of frustrating as a viewer, but also I get it. It you kind of have to be like a content factory at a certain point because, you know, you gotta write episodes and you don't have very much time to do it. And that's why Aaron Sorkin did so much cocaine while he was writing Westlake. It's interesting to look at how the characters are different.
I would say Blair, very consistent. Serena, at the beginning, pretty consistent too. Like, she's definitely supposed to be, like, the ethereal cool girl who, like, has effortless style and, like, she just rolled out of bed, but, like, she she still looks good and you wish you could look that good too kind of thing. But Nate is like kind of he's just like a dumb jock, which I would say he is in the show also, but he's also a giant stoner, which especially if, like, in the early 2000 felt very, like, scandalous. Definitely.
I remember that. Yeah. And so, yeah. He's just like is unmotivated, doesn't know what he wants to do in his life, just wants to, like, play lacrosse with his bros He can. And smoke a joint in Central Park.
He just lets things happen to him. And he might have some opinions, but he's not gonna bother voicing them because that might rock the boat and too bad. I do think that this quote I pulled is very interesting for Nate. Poor Nate was always on the verge of saying how he really felt, but he didn't want to make a scene or say something he might regret later. Instead, he kept quiet and let other people steer the boat while he laid back and enjoyed the steady rocking of the waves.
He might look like a stud, but he was actually pretty weak. Maybe he has opinions, but nothing matters to him. And, like, he's just gonna go with the flow, which seems pretty consistent with the Nate we see. Now, getting to, like, I would say, Dan, Vanessa, Rufus, and Jenny are the most different. And Yeah.

(01:04):
Again, I think that really, in part, has to do with adapting for a TV show in which you're writing so many episodes. And also just like the CW, let's be real. Like, we had to CW fy them a little bit. Right. Like, it still has to be glamorous in that very specific way.
So, like, Dan in the books is, like, a chain smoker. He only drinks coffee, like, coffee and Red Bull. He just is, like, super unhealthy and skinny and, like, his hair is long and he's a tortured poet, which I do feel like had that act been the TV show Dan, I would have been in love with him in middle school. Yeah. Absolutely.
And they make him into a writer, like a, I guess, prose writer. Like, he writes stories in a way that I understand. Like, poetry is just not interesting to watch on television, I guess. But also, like, you can't really generate story lines from that. But I do think, like, there's something very specific about, like, a chain smoking tortured poet, 17 year old, that is just so evocative.
And I feel like fits very well with Vanessa Yes. Who is, like, I would say genuinely very cool in the books. She, like, her head is shaved. She wears combat boots everywhere. She lives in Williamsburg at a time that Williamsburg was, like, not the best neighborhood, and her sister is in a punk band.
She goes to Constance because she has to, but, like, all she wants to do is be a filmmaker. And she's, like, really serious and pretentious about her art in a way that I think Dan and Vanessa are very aligned in that way. And that was something that, granted, I did not rewatch the whole show, so it's entirely possible that I, like, missed some of Vanessa in this way. But I feel like, you know, she definitely carried a camera sometimes, but her film work did not really seem to be a priority in the same way as it was in the books. I think they kinda just used it as, like, a wedge to, like, further dramatic and mainly romantic tension.
Mhmm. Totally. Of course. Like, I get it. Like, oh, Vanessa got this internship that's going to take her away for the summer.
Oh, Vanessa got into this program at Tisch and Dan didn't and he wanted it. Like, it was a lot of stuff like that. Like, she's a main character technically, but she never was generating her own story line. She was always present in, like, someone else's. Yes.
That's a good description of her. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, Jenny. I love book Jenny.
I can't stand TV show Jenny, which, like, I think that's supposed to be the reaction to TV show show Jenny. But book Jenny is just, like, she's really sweet. She's 14 years old with, like, super curly hair and giant boobs. That's, like, her defining characteristic is her giant boobs. I did not remember that.
I didn't. And the prequel is, like, about her growing her boobs. It's like a whole thing. I mean, that is obviously a big thing for you when you're like that. Yeah.
But yeah. But she just, like, is genuinely very sweet, and she wants to be friends with Blair and Serena. Obviously, it's like social climbing to some extent, but it's not as, like, malicious as the Jenny storyline ends up being. It's kind of like, oh, these girls are cool the way that, like, you would think that any popular senior was cool. Right.
So she tries to, like, kind of get into the cool crowd a little bit, but it's definitely not to the extent of the show, which again is very much they need to generate conflict somehow. And it works out, you know, like Jenny makes sense of the antagonist to Blair more than someone like Serena because you want to see that friendship too even though they do fight a lot throughout the series. But, you know, we definitely want them to be able to come back to that friendship so, like, they were not gonna be at loggerheads all the time. So it made sense that Jenny was kind of the main antagonist. Jenny, for me, was a big casualty of, like, Chuck and Blair becoming the focus of the show.
Like, when Dan and Serena are, like, the focus and it's about their romance and, like, them coming together, Jenny is very much like, I feel like she's very sympathetic in season 1, in my opinion. I mean, she almost gets raped by Chuck in the pilot. She's 14 years old. Like, that's hard to process. She's at this new private school with these, like, girls she wants to be, but who also, like, put her down for, you know, being middle class.
And, like, I don't know. I'm I'm very sympathetic to Jenny throughout, but especially in season 1. And I think, you know, again, once Chuck and Blair become the focus of the show, who especially Chuck was very much initially the antagonist, you kind of have to, like, change allegiances. You had to pivot. And so, yeah, Jenny, to me, and Vanessa, to a lesser extent, both had to become antagonists to Chuck's protagonist.
Yeah. That's fair. Like, I definitely think Chuck is very different in the books. Yeah. He def so the 2 bits in the pilot of him, like, he, like, kisses Serena, and she, like, really doesn't want it.
And, like, she kinda pushes him away, but it's definitely, like, not a good situation. I think they're in, like, the kitchen at the palace or something. And then, obviously, him also, like, assaulting Jenny. Wait. Are you talking about the show or the book now?
The show. Oh, no. He fully chose to rape Serena. Okay. I didn't totally remember exactly what happened.
He chose to rape both Serena and Jenny in the pilot. Yes. I obviously remember the Jenny bit. Both of those are in the book. Although with Serena, it's I think a worse situation of, like, they're in his parents' suite at a hotel, and, like, she's been drinking a lot.
And, like, she really it's, like, from her perspective. So you can tell, like, Julie is not feeling good, and, like, he keeps trying and trying. And he eventually gives up, but, like, it it I was reading it, and I was, like, genuinely worried. And obviously, both of those things are present, and I do not forgive Chuck for them in the pilot. But I do think that's kind of an aspect of them figuring out how they wanted to adapt the series and what they wanted all of these characters to be.
And so Chuck turned out to be a very different character and more of a romantic lead, which, like, I don't think they were initially planning for. No. They definitely weren't. I will add though that, like, Chuck's treatment of woman does come up repeatedly throughout the rest of the series. Not so much with Serena, I guess.
That kind of gets shoved to the side and forgotten. But what he did to Jenny in the pilot does get brought up again multiple times throughout the series. And then there's also that scene towards the end of season 4 when Blair gets engaged to the prince. Whole ridiculous storyline, we don't need to get it to you. And she's also still in college, which she just stopped going to school.

(01:25):
Yeah. They stopped going to school. Which I respect, honestly. But Yeah. He pins Blair down.
He is forcing himself on her. It's you know, debated whether or not he was trying to punch her or just trying to punch the glass. But either way, glass gets broken. It, like, cuts her face. Like, it's a very very dark moment in the Chuck and Blair romance.
To me, I don't know how you watch that scene and not notice that he was, like, you know, assaulting her the same way he did Serena. But anyway so I'm just saying, yes, they've made a romantic lead, but, like, that darkness was very much a part of his appeal as a romantic lead. It was very much like, Blair's the one woman, he doesn't wanna rape, which is, like, problematic, of course. Yeah. I I did not watch that particular episode, so I can't comment on it.
But definitely agree that, like, he still has a lot of darkness to him. And it's interesting to think of, like, I do kind of wonder if that is kind of a symptom of the time of, like, it's interesting to, like, go back and watch Grey's Anatomy as, like, the example that came to my mind of, like, there are so many things that Derek does if he's just, like, you know, constantly pursuing Meredith. And, oh, Karev, I, like, just hate. And Oh, I hate him too. I think he's not like the devil.
But anyway, but you're right about Derek. Yeah. Like, Derek came to mind first of, like, you know, he's constantly pursuing Meredith even when she doesn't wanna be with him. And, like, there are even moments where, like, he, like, physically, like, does I would not say he, like, is assaulting her, but, like, definitely, like, puts his hands on her in a way that, like And he's, like, her boss. Right.
Well, yes. That's a whole separate issue. But, like yeah. In ways that, like, were, I I believe, at the time intended to be, like, oh, this is kind of sexy. Like, he wants her so much that he is just, like, is overcome by his feelings, which does not read well now nor should it ever have.
But it is interesting, especially to watch, like, a teen drama like Gossip Girl and be, like, how much of that which again, I'm not forgiving Chuck of the things that he did, what he, you know, did to Blair in that episode. But, like, it's interesting to be, like, is that intended to be, like, oh, kind of, like, forbidden and, you know, oh, he's, like, so dark and brooding and mysterious and, like, you're supposed to think it's kinda, like, fucked up and sexy. I don't really know. I I think so. I always wonder, like, how would it be received today if it had aired now for the first time.
I think it would just be totally like, even the Gossip Girl reboot had a reference to it, like, Chuck and Blair so pre me too or whatever that it was. Yeah. I remember that line. Yeah. Yeah.
So I think yeah. I do think it was a different time. Again, not an excuse at all. I remember culturally at a time we were definitely in, like, bad boy sexy, bad boy fun. There's, like, a lot of bad boys on TV, and I think, yeah, Chuck was just part of that pattern, I think.
I always joke that Chuck Bass sent feminism back 15 years because I still see women today be, like, dream husband. I'm like, is he? Right. Well, I also think that, like, to watch a show like this, you obviously want to root for the characters in some way. Maybe not all of them, but, like, you wanna be in their corner.
And that requires some suspension of disbelief of, like, of course, like, I don't wanna interact with, like, a real Chuck Bass in any manner, in any facet of my life ever. But, like, I do think he's an interesting character, and I think his relationship with Blair is, like, fun to watch. I think those 2 leads have good chemistry, and, like, I think they reveal very interesting things about each other, and, like, their commitment, and what they, like, allow themselves, and what love their kind of love they're looking for. I think that, like, it makes sense that they ended up together, because neither of them wanted, like, a simple love that wasn't gonna be satisfying to either of them. And so Well like, that tracks to me.
I mean, Blair said she did a lot, to be fair. But, yeah, I think Chuck and Blair were interesting in season 1 and maybe season 2. For me, I think it just got too repetitive, you know, because it was endless, like, you know, it's the same thing. It's a content factory. You have to keep momentum going for 6 seasons, you know.
It just got very repetitive. It was a lot of, like, Chuck, so much bad. But then they wanna be the other day. So what Chuck does has to get worse and worse. Chuck traded her for a hotel.
Chuck tried to, you know, punch her or not. Maybe. I don't know. Like, it just had to get worse and worse, and then it gets harder and harder to forgive. And then also, frankly, I just find all the bass industry stuff that they threw at him, like seasons 3 from on, extremely boring.
Like, I think that's some of the most boring stuff ever put to television. It's the bass industry stuff. I meant to rewatch the episode where he trades Blair for the hotel. Oh, yeah. But because I wanted to remember, like, Blair also offers herself up, doesn't she?
Well, it's set up that it seems like Blair's, like, driving it, and then it turns out Chuck manipulated her to doing it without her knowledge. So it was all him, like, behind the scenes, like, puppet mastering her into doing it. Yeah. He still I I do want to rewatch that, and I will after this, but I feel like she would have offered herself. Well, that's the thing.
It's, like, she would have, but then he tricked her into it. So then it was like he, you know, betrayed her. Yeah. That's what it was. I do agree that it gets really repetitive.
And, like, honestly, they're the most interesting. The, like, short span where they're actually together consistently. Where I'm like, okay, I could maybe see why someone would find this relationship dynamic interesting. But then, like, I find the, like, there's always something in between us that we can't be together things so fucking exhausting, especially when you're adding on top of it him doing more awful things every time. Right.
I don't think I don't, like, blame the characters for that. It doesn't affect my enjoyment of Chuck and Blair as a couple when they are a couple. I'm more just like, the writers are being annoying or, like, this is stupid manufacturer conflict, but, like, I still enjoyed what we saw of them even though I know that's not the popular opinion of the people on this podcast. Okay. Live your truth.
Live your truth. I have bad taste, and I'm proud of it. One thing I have to say before we move on from the books is that it seems that the cat of the Humphreys was named Marx in the books. Yes. I do.
RX, Marx, Karl Marx, and I truly feel like I'm deeply disappointed they didn't carry that over even though I'm sure that no interview executive would have let that happen. There's, like, a brief shot of the cat in the pilot with Dan. Oh. But yeah. Other than that, it's, like, totally cut out.

(01:46):
And there's no reference to the name, unfortunately. Yes. In my mind, though, justice remarks. I know. So we'll get to the pilot now and just talk through some of the class dynamic.
Also, I think one thing that's an interesting thing to talk about in regards to, like, you know, just like gentrifying New York is, like, the fact that Rufus, Dan, and Jenny live in what today looks like an extremely nice apartment. But also, to be fair, that's true of, like, every New York City show ever. But If it's big, you can make it nice. Obviously, also, they are depicted as poor in relation to the, like, ultra rich. So they're more, like, you know, middle class, probably.
But it is just very interesting to watch this universe where, like, you know, they are seen as, like, so so, like, below so many of the people they go to school with when, like, my god, dream apartment. But they live now. And also, in the books, they're on the upper west side. Right? So that's a big change they made, I think, to separate, you know, because, like, the average person at home probably doesn't know the difference between the upper west side and upper east side.
True. Like, Brooklyn like, I think probably the average person knows that Brooklyn's not Manhattan. And is it Yeah. In the books, the Humphreys are at 99th and West End. Yeah.
Like, that's a nice that's a nice area. Whereas, yeah, the show there like in Dumbo which was still like in 2007, that was still very much up and coming. Yeah. I would say it definitely was not what it is today at all. I think it was probably still very industrial.
Probably not that much going on day to day other than residential areas. That roof is his gallery. It was on Bedford, so I wonder like if that was like, was he going all the way to Bed Stuy? Like, it's not Or is he in Williamsburg? Yeah.
Yeah. That's what I assumed. Because it's like the Bedford Avenue gallery, isn't it? Right. I always assumed it was Williamsburg just because they originally lived in Williamsburg in, like, the first few episodes, and then they changed it to Dumbo.
Okay. That makes sense. And that's why I was confused. So there were a couple of clips from the first episode that were worth watching just to kind of set the scene of some of the class dynamics and also introduce us to the Humphrey family who is largely who we're gonna be talking about throughout the app. Guess whose dad is cool.
It's a trick question. Yeah. Because it can't be ours. Look at this. Top 10 forgotten bands of the 90.
Yeah. Check out his number 9. He's very proud. Hey. Hey.
Way to be forgotten. But that's how you get remembered. Maybe you care if dad's band was on Gossip Girl. What? Gossip Girl is that's for chicks.
So that wasn't your laptop up into it last night reading all about Serena Bandwidth's? Rolling Stone. Let me take a look at this again, dad. Okay. Cool.
Wicked hog number 9. Hey. What are you working on? It's called the kiss and the lips party. Everyone's going.
You were invited to know? Well, no offense if I sound surprised since I've never been invited. One of the girls in my art class saw my color scheme, and she said that if I adjust all the invitations that I could have one. Sounds very fair. Select shops could learn a thing or 2.
So this is not a platform for any anti capitalist rants. Yes, it is. Besides, you make us go to private schools. That's for your education. So we should just be anonymous losers, we eat lunch alone, and never invited to parties.
Works for me. Mom thinks it's a good idea. And her judgment is always sound. Right? Jenny, if you wanna go to that party, you should go.
The kids could use some time. I have to say, it is a very interesting discussion that this family does send their kids to private school because I think that's a big conversation on the left of, like, people leaving the city to go to the suburbs because, like, the schools just aren't good enough here. Or we're gonna stay in the city, but they're gonna go to private school. And it's like, have you ever considered, you know, pulling everyone pulling their kids out of the public schools, you know. But I don't know.
It's just an interesting conversation. And also, see, he is he clearly has some sort of money from being a fucking, like, rock star in the nineties. But, like Are we supposed to believe that he has money? Because he had money at some point. I I think he bought that loft with that money.
And I think they make a reference to Dan being on partial scholarship. Yes. But even even if he's on, like, half scholarship, those private schools are like 50 a year. So to send 2 kids to those schools for 12 years or even just the school. Yes.
He's Chris high school. But yes. But yeah. It is interesting. Yeah, Maria, that like that is even kind of the default of, like, yes, he decided to send his kids to private school.
Like, there are a very good public schools in the city and also, like, the specialized public schools that, yes, you have to take an exam and test into, but a lot of people are also very happy there. I think the hypocrisy that kind of is in Rufus though. Like, he obviously goes on anti capitalist rants, and in the book he named his cat Marx. And I guess in the book, he doesn't have a relationship with Lily. But in the show, like, you know, he falls in love over and over again with the billionaire queen.

(02:07):
So I think it just yeah. I don't know. I think to me, it's like it tracks for me that Rufus would complain about the rich, but then also secretly want his child to be educated among them and be successful. I mean, clearly, Rufus you know, had dreamed of being rich once upon a time when he wanted to be a rock star. Like Right.
It's a very, like, liberal Brooklyn parent mindset and Yeah. And I also did just want to note, I'm pretty sure when Jenny and Rufus are arguing about, like, her dropping out of high school to get her GED, I guess, so she can work at Eleanor's. She says that he dropped out of high school, I guess, to go on tour or something. So it is I feel like it could be the classic Laura like Gilmore situation of, like, I didn't have access to his education, so I'm going to make sure you get the best, whatever they deem the best is, which in this case is very expensive private school. Yeah.
And it is also interesting how despite, like, him obviously very firmly believing that this is, like, the way to get a good education for his kids, that there is a question of, okay, but, like, he's making fun of the, like, kiss on the lips party and, like, kind of, like, her trying to be involved and, like, her question of, like, so should we just be anonymous, Louver, if we eat alone and never get invited to parties? It's like you did bring your kids into this environment, but you also want them to reject the environment. It's like a very definitely sets up kind of an impossible situation for these kids. Like Yeah. That actually I have never thought that hard about it, but that actually sounds like pretty unhealthy.
If you're like, yes, you can go to the school, but you must hate all of your classmates, and you're better than them because you don't have money and they do. It's like, okay. Well, a, I'm sure there are some normal people at that school. They're like the only scholarship student. Right.
Like, surely there are more than and, like, yeah, you want your kids to have the best experience possible in this very expensive school that you're paying for to some degree. And that includes them having friends and doing activities with those friends and getting the most out of their school, like, as opposed to just going there and coming home. So, yeah, that actually doesn't sound great. But luckily, they found a way around this. From the next clip I wanted us to watch is the one time that we see Chuck and Nate on public transportation.
Very confused about, like I know that it was just to make this interaction happen, but I'm like, we definitely don't see them on, like, a bus again. Right? Like Nate it's implied that Nate takes the subway one time. Okay. Chuck, like, pretty much exclusively travels by limo after this episode.
I I again, I think it's just pilot weirdness. They weren't thinking ahead. They're just like, how can we get these characters to interact with each other? Yeah. But I still think it's a it's a good introduction despite the maybe slightly pilot magic of it all.
And also that, you know, Dan does have to take public transportation, and that, we believe. Probably has to take a train to a train to a bus or some shit. Like Yeah. That would not be a night for me. Effing hot last night.
There's something wrong with that level of perfection. It needs to be violated. You are deeply disturbed, and yet you know I'm right. You're telling me if you had the chance I have a girlfriend. You guys have been dating since kindergarten, but you haven't sealed the deal.
You still seal the deal. Come Nate is so dumb. He doesn't know what stop is his. Following us or something. No.
I I I go to your school. Identical uniforms, that kind of a tip-off. It's funny. So you guys wanna sit together at lunch? So that's kind of the beginning of, like, Dan being, like, the invisible, like, poor kid.
Also, obviously, introduces Chuck I mean, they literally introduced Chuck as being disturbed by his friend. So it's, like, rough. I will also know, actually, on the bus thing, in the books, they do specifically take the crosstown bus, and I noted that. So I wonder if that was Out of maybe something left over. Yeah.
But again, yeah, it's definitely a good way to show, you know, the upper class and lower class people coming together. Because I do feel like people who go to those private schools, like, they do take public transit. Yeah. I would say New York is, like, the one city in the world where I feel like ever oh, like, unless you're, like I mean, I guess Chuck Beth is a billionaire. But unless you're, like, billionaire rich in New York, like, you are taking the subway.
Like, rich people absolutely Yeah. Take the subway in New York. And I feel like that's, like, the one city in America where that is true. That, like, yeah, public transit is the great, I guess, equalizer in New York. In some way, like yeah.
This doesn't feel totally untrue. Like, it doesn't drive later with Chuck's later characterization, but someone coming into this for the first time, I don't think it's crazy that, like, these private school boys would be on this bus together. Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah.
I think it's mostly in the context of the like like you said, the amount of times that we see Chuck in a fucking limo. Right. Right. I just don't believe this. But as, like, coming to it fresh, yeah, I would believe it.
And I'm sure also, like, it's much easier to film in a quote, like, a limo set than a bus, like, a 1,000,000 extras. Oh, yeah. I don't know if that was actually on a bus or not. I think it looks like it may have been. They at least got the exterior.
Yeah. So, obviously, like, that logistically poses so many issues that are just not worth it. And I think that probably is part of why, like, you never see characters taking subway on not just on gospel, but I feel like generally on New York TV shows just because, like, why bother with that? So in the pilot, we also get, like, Nate kind of I don't know if this also, again, kind of shows him to be a little different than he is in the book, but he's kind of, like, having the, like, don't you feel like our whole lives are planned for us? Like, rich kid, struggle, and, you know, he asked if they're entitled to choose just to be happy.
And Chuck says, what we're entitled to is a trust fund, maybe a house in the Hamptons, a prescription drug problem. But happiness does not seem to be on the menu, so smoke up and seal the deal with Blair. But it does seem like maybe a reference to him being a stoner that, like, is kind of fleeting. That's true. There's, like, yeah, there's small references throughout the show of Nate being a stoner.
I just think they probably weren't allowed to, like, show him openly, like, lighting up on the CW, you know? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I don't think there is really weed in the show, but, like, I feel like characters are doing, like, ecstasy and other, like Pop does cocaine on, like, occasions.
So you don't actually see him, like, snort, but, like, there's a lot of times where, like, there's cocaine on the table. Oh, that's true. And Serena Yeah. Serena does it once. I think she's framed for it.

(02:28):
Like, Juliet What they get away with and what they don't. Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely. I think also it's like how it is shown on the show.
So, like, Serena getting framed for doing cocaine is clearly, like, don't do cocaine, kids. That's bad. But if you had a character who's, like, constantly smoking weed, then, like, that might Right. Entice people to try. I mean, yeah.
Remember the ads? I mean, I think it goes viral, like, you know, maybe, like, once a year. The, like, old ads Yeah. They did where they, like, took the bad reviews for the show and, like, overlaid, like, pictures of, you know, characters making out or whatever I found it. Scantily clad.
It was I think, Serena and Nate at the wedding was, like, most of what those ads were. I, unfortunately, can tell you each and every one. It was, yes, Serena and Nate at the wedding, Nate and Blair in the pool, Nate with Catherine, which is a whole other problem. Oh my god. It was Chuck, like, putting cherry into a burlesque dancer's mouth.
Mhmm. And it was Serena with the guy she ends up, like, killing in air quotes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. So they were doing cocaine there too. Although, I think Serena did Yeah. It's just that he overdoses. Right.
So they're like, oh, you know that because he dies from right. And you can die too. Yeah. You'll think you killed someone who clearly just overdosed and was an addict for, like Right. Whatever amount of time she believed that about herself.
Right. But, yeah. On the pilot, we also get the introduction of Rufus and Lily's dynamics, Tess, you switched up rock stars for billionaires. She has, what, like, 5 ex husbands or something crazy like that? I think when the show, it's 3.
And then by the time the show's over, it is 5. Yes. Okay. Alright. I know I got that number from somewhere.
Yeah. At one point, he also says to her, not all of us have settlements from multiple divorces to sustain us. So that is a reference to that. I just wonder, like, Lily is such an Mhmm. Kind of a frustrating character because Yeah.
Yeah. She I feel like she kind of just goes it's the whims of, like, whatever is convenient for the story of, like, she's a supportive mom. She's a terrible mom. She, you know, is willing to do whatever for her family or, you know, she's just in it for the money and whatever. But I'm just like, she clearly has a big ton of family money.
So, like, why does she have so many husbands? She's what? Maybe, like, 40? Maybe. 3 active husbands.
Right. Like, maybe 40. So I'm just like, what, like, what's in it for her? I'm very curious. And I don't feel like we ever got that answer.
Yeah. Like, Bart and Lily is a relationship I've never been able to make sense of other than, like because, like, Lily, I don't think she needs Bart's money. And, like, it's implied that there's, like, genuine feelings there, but, like, they never, like, drawing Lily to this man. Even, like, when he comes back after he fakes his death. Right.
Like, why he's forgot about it. Like, she's like, I chose him because he didn't want like, she's basically mad at Rufus for, like, presuming she wanted to stay married to him. It's it's insane. Like, how dare you assume I wanted to still be married to you? What?
Like, when she was going to leave Bart when he came to me. Like, it's all Yeah. Right. Like, they never truly know what to do with Lily, I think. Yeah.
Yeah. When Bart died, I was a little trying to remember, does he come back? I can't remember if he comes back. Like, that was so Oh, yeah. It sounds like Fucking show.
So we kind of already talked about the Chuck Jenny assault quite a bit, I feel like. I did note, like, you had mentioned, f, that Megitas come back in 221 and 403 at the very least. Because part of me wondered if that gonna be like a a pilot thing that we're pretending if it can in. But, like, clearly not. Like, I don't know.
I appreciate that. You can debate. Actually, I think we see the Serena one again when Chuck has his, like, flashbacks of all the terrible shit he did in 401 when he's, like, amnesia or whatever that plot is. Oh, right. I think we briefly see Serena.
But other than that, it, like, never ever gets brought up. So, like, the Jenny one though is definitely, like, supposed to be canon. Like, it yeah. So that's kinda, like, the the main class stuff from the pilot. And I thought before we, like, kind of get into the rest of the show that Vanessa deserved her own section.
A listener who I found out was actually s was not happy with us for talking shit about Vanessa during a writer's break episode, and so it was stuck in my mind when I went to do this episode. Because we had talked about doing Gossip Girl for a little while. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna give, like, Vanessa, like, extra attention on this watch. And I do feel like I came out appreciating her a lot more than I did originally. I'm glad to hear that.

(02:49):
I yeah. I think Vanessa I think she just gets, like, the short stick from the writers. Like, again, like I said earlier, like, she never gets to generate her own story lines. She's mainly there to be a love interest to, like, Nate and Dan. Like, she's literally introduced as, like, a wedge between Dan and Serena, and they set her up, like, to fail really from the beginning.
And then it's very iconic, though. I really don't yeah. I really don't think she does anything that I would actually consider bad until season 4. And at that point, like, I think the show it just really gotten to this point where, like, the rich characters are good and the poor characters, except for Dan, are all bad. And, like, I mean, that whole arc with Juliet and Jenny and Vanessa, like, teaming up against Serena, like, we can talk about it more if we want later.
Like, it's very problematic in my opinion. Oh, yeah. And, like, that's the one where it's called, like, the witches of Bushwick itself. Yeah. I totally see that.
Because it's like, oh, the 3 witches, and they're all yeah. Right. Like, the the working class kids. Yeah. Vanessa is introduced, like you said, as a wedge between Dan and Serena.
Six episodes into the show once their romance has really already begun. And she kinda, like, surprises everyone of her presence and says that her parents said she could live with her sister and finish school in the city, so she's back for good. This actually reminds me a lot of another show we obviously, that show reminds me of Gossip Girl because it came after it. But, like, Young Royals that we talked about this season, because Vanessa definitely plays a similar role to the working class friends of the scholarship kid in that show, where it's like just like totally mocking you for being around rich kids all the time. She says, like, big night of over privileged, underparented, trust fund brats from your fancy school, which, to be fair, really does subscribe a lot of them.
Yes. So when he says the limo is actually waiting back at the loft, she suggests that they can egg it and maybe flash the tires. So, yeah, I I'm down. They have their, like, really cute little friend traditions, like going to the late show at the Angelica that makes them feel like real fucking people. And I think that's part of what's really interesting about especially season 1 is that it's like the rich people, like, almost, like, aren't real people in the same way that the poor people are.
Where it's like, look, this family actually has breakfast together and, like, are making jokes. Well, Claire's maid brings her some fruit, and her mother tells her not to eat breakfast. Thereby giving her a need to be spitter. Right. But then it's interesting because especially considering what you were saying, which is I think true that, like, it kind of flips at a certain point and the rich because I guess Right.
Yeah. The rich people become more humanized by Yes. Time that we get carbon. Only Dan gets to stay human, I feel like. And then, of course, that is also equally problematic when it turns out he is allegedly Gossip Girl, which is Allegedly.
Something we're used to believe. I was thinking that would be a great place for us to end because of yeah. That is unbelievable. And so the move is a time when so we obviously were introduced to Jenny helping Blair with these invitations to the kids in the Litts party. But in the 6th episode, she again helps Blair.
Similarly, the way Rufus reacted, Vanessa's like, this Blair girl used you as her slave. And she says, handmaiden. And she's like, handmaiden is Jane Austen for slave. No. And so she kinda is just like, you did all the work.
You deserve to go to ball even though Jenny's like, I don't know if I can go. So she, like, sneaks her in. She has a friend who works at the costume department at Bam. I feel like they were decent about their New York City details on the show too. Like, you can really feel that it was filmed in the city.
Oh, that feels like a relatively deep cut. Yeah. We appreciate it. Yeah. And so Vanessa, like, actually helps Jenny sneak into this ballroom.
It's a really cute moment where Jenny's like, I look, I know you're completely morally opposed to society events and stuff, and she's like, it's okay. We'll deprogram you later. I thought we deserved more of Jenny and Vanessa being friends. Yeah. Like, they really set it up.
Like, Vanessa's, like, the surrogate, like, sister to Jenny. Yeah. You never really get to see that again. Yeah. And so there's also a interaction between Vanessa and Dan where she says, like, you hate this world, and it's like, so do you.
You know? And so I think that comes up again later, and we'll keep talking about it. But, like, they both in different ways, I think. Like, obviously, again, a lot of it is, like, we just need every character to do side things at some point to keep the content factory going. But I do think that there's something to be said for, like, Dan and Vanessa each, in different ways, getting corrupted by the system, like the server in Yeah.
Yet. Yeah. So Nate eventually I I forgot how early Nate and Vanessa happens, actually, when I was watching this. So, like, they start hanging out, and, like, there's lots of fun references to the fact that Vanessa's sister's band is, like, lesbian punk. Her parents are hard.
On the show. Honestly, yes. So long so fast. Obviously, we eventually meet her mom. But do we meet anyone else besides the mom?
No. It's just the mom. We never even meet the dad. Although, I feel like this is relevant to bring up that Vanessa is the only character of color on Gossip Girl. I don't think it's a reach to think she's biracial.
We know her mom is, you know, Gina Torres, Afro Latina. Yep. I think it's safe to assume that her father is white even though we never see him. That was what I assumed. Yeah.
I mean, the actress is biracial in real life. So I think that's that's another thorny complication into how Vanessa was treated by the writers for sure. Absolutely. Like, I don't think that in any way they engaged with that. Like, they were just like, we're not gonna We're not gonna touch that.
Which would have been cool to have explored, honestly. So shame. But, yeah, it's also understood that Vanessa isn't expected to go to college, which is very different, obviously, as we'll see from every other student in this show who are expected to not only go to college, but to go to an Ivy League. Well, and then when we do meet her mom, she's disappointed Vanessa for going to, like, a private university instead of a state school. So Yeah.

(03:10):
I guess maybe they, like, relax their standards at some point. But, yeah, definitely that continues throughout of, like, the disdain before private education, which fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. I can't really argue.
It should be legal, anyway. Yeah. I mean, I'm still in debt from my, private education. So, yeah. Yeah.
That shit. I don't know if I would, like, encourage a kid my kid to go to private college, considering that experience. No. I I've been talking about kids with my partner. We're like we're both highly against private school.
Even though we did both go to private universities as well. But yeah. No. Especially k through 12. Like, that's Yeah.
That really is just anyway. Not. Yeah. Yeah. But I have, like, a little note where there was, like, one outfit of Vanessa that made me be like, this is what why?
She's not, like, the book character. But Yeah. That was part of it. And that was, again, the CW of it all. Like, there was no way they were gonna let her be that cool.
They were never gonna have a woman with a shaved head on the CW. Oh my god. That would be so cool. Oh, fuck. I know.
If only HBO had gotten their hands on it back then. And then in the reboot, one of the girls does have a shaved head. Right? Yeah. One of the main I don't remember anyone's names.
Julia? Yes. That sounds right. I think you're right. Yeah.
I watched, like, one and a half seasons. Once I got canceled, I didn't have the, like, heart to finish season 2. But I will maybe will at some point. Anyway, there's also, in the 2nd season, a moment where Vanessa has decided to pass on joining her family at a reservation to stage a protest. You know, she has much cooler plans than any of the rest of the kids on the show.
She's definitely the activist character. Like, Vanessa if Vanessa was a real person, I feel very confident in saying that she would probably be in DSA or PSL. Yeah. She would be, like, rocking, like, free Luigi shirts right now. Yeah.
Like, she's definitely she would she has leftist politics. Like, I don't think that's a reach to say that. Yeah. I agree. And, like, my god.
That actually is so funny bringing up Luigi in reaction to this world. Oh, sure. Imagine if, like, some kids shot Chuck Bass or something, you know. Yeah. Or or he did get some actually on the show, but, like, for political reasons.
Yeah. And there's also a moment in the second season where Dan admits that, like, his best memories of the past few years have been at high society parties. And he says, so I figured, why fight it? Which feels it's interesting. It feels like a back and forth between him being, like, I'm not in this world.
I'm in this world. Like, I'm not in this world. I feel like the flip happens pretty quickly, which I guess to a certain extent, like, it wouldn't really be fun to watch him continue to go to these parties and complain about them. It's like, alright, if you're gonna go, like Yeah. Yeah.
You know, you better go all in. But, yeah, I think there wasn't as much of a transition as maybe there could have been. Totally. So I think one of the interesting and coolest Vanessa plot lines is definitely in the 3rd season. Once we're at NYU, and there's, like, this whole profile written up about her as a freshman leader and how she's tackled numerous social and environmental issues, which, like, you know, I know they're never gonna show me that, but would love to see that.
I know. Yeah. And it's a cover story in the NYU paper, and she's all like, it doesn't mean anything. And then they have this, like, ridiculous plotline. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just feel like they shoehorned this into the NYU setting.
There's a toast at the, like, you know That was so stupid. Brunch Yeah. Dinner thing over parents weekend that, like, everyone covets to doing. And it's just, like, I don't believe this actually is a thing. There's no way some highly sought after speech or competition or something.
It's like NYU in the Gossip Girl world is so it's so interesting how they portrayed it because sometimes it's like NYU's a state school and you're like, well, no. But other times, it appears if, like, they're just taking all the Ivy League storylines that they would have done at an Ivy League University and putting it into NYU too. Like, it's very it's very mixed and inaccurate. I will leave it at that. Absolutely.
And so, like, Rufus is asking Vanessa if her parents are proud, and this is kinda what we were talking about before. Like, she explains that her parents hate that she's at a private college buying a quote unquote elitist education. And Rufus is like, yeah, they're progressives. But if they knew how much good you were doing at the school, I'm sure they'd come around. She gets some kind of getting caught up in scheme and thanks to Blair around this whole thing in general, but she also does reach out to her parents.
And I think what Blair says about Vanessa, like, is very funny when he tries to sabotage her getting the toast, where she says that she is a tired cliche from the 718. The preachy I hate the man toast she no doubt has in mind won't inspire the kind of deep pocket donations the school needs. You need a speaker more like me. And, also, that's that's an interesting one in terms of the, like, acting like NYU's poor. Like, I'm sorry.

(03:31):
Wait. Like, there are so many rich people who go to NYU. Like, that will be fine. Yeah. Granted, like, they do need donations to rich people.
That's how we need to operate, but Keep it going. Yeah. They don't need Blair's money specifically. I think there's a really interesting racial element in this specific storyline between Gloria and Vanessa as well. Blair makes a comment in this episode, like, you know, some people are just above others or some people are just whatever it is, something like that, about people being above others.
And it's just very, like you know, you have your white character saying that to a black character. Like, it obviously is going to erase certain eyebrows, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. I wish the show had done more with that because that could have been really interesting.
Yeah. I feel like they just, like, did not see her No. And I know as a person of color. We can go back to the reboot for a second. I know that Evan Mock, who was in the reboot, made a comment about how, like, yeah, like, Blair has all these minions who are all, like, women of color.
Yes. They all are serving, you know, the white queen bee. And it's again, that's something that is not explored at all. But just I mean, also, you know, not to excuse it. It was 2007.
It was pre Obama. It was definitely racially, we were in a very different place. But Absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, she gets hold up with some scheming.
I did think that it would be interesting to kind of see where Vanessa comes from and watch these couple of scenes of us meeting Gabriela. So one thing that I appreciate is the, obviously, being who I am, the Burlington Cheesemakers Union. Let's shout it out in this. Very funny. Jeez.
You knew that would make that happen. You know what? Yeah. It's a lot. Hey.
You made it. Rufus? Yeah. Oh, come here. Would you let me look at you?
Lay off the caffeine, It's giving you wrinkles. I'm sorry Arlo couldn't make it. He says hello. He had to finish installing the solar panels on the chicken coop at the coop. We have been so busy organizing Local 72, the, the union for the Burlington Cheesemakers.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Mom, this is Lily. Oh, it is such a pleasure to finally meet Vanessa's mother.
Gabriela. Oh, Rufus. We're not in Brooklyn anymore. I'm still moving in. It's Lily's place.
Oh, it is both of our place. Mom, didn't you bring that for Lily? Oh, yes. I did. Oh.
Homemade strawberry rhubarb. Thank you. Wow. Well, you and your husband must be so proud of Vanessa. Oh.
Yes. Vanessa has always been a very thoughtful and thoughtful and driven young woman. This school is the perfect fit for her. Well Here we go. To be completely honest, my husband and I don't believe in private universities.
Knowledge should not be for sale. Wow. Yes. Who's hungry? Lovely.
She's so cool. Yeah. I love this mom. I would I agree with most of the things she says in these clips we're gonna watch. So yeah.
Yeah. I definitely wanna be her when I grow up. Especially, like, having the confidence to go into, like, that much of a rich product. They look to their face and be like, I'm sure you're wrong. Yeah.
It's just like, actually, everything that you believe is wrong. Also, here's some rhubarb. Ella, this strawberry rhubarb jam is to die for. Thank you. It's the agave.
I refuse to use sugar. Mhmm. Mhmm. Oh, Rufus. Will we be seeing Daniel at the dinner?
I'd hope so, but unfortunately not. He has a date tonight. With Vanessa's roommate, Olivia Burke. Didn't she tell you? Lily.

(03:52):
She is a very famous actress. I'm afraid I don't worship at the altar of shallow Hollywood celebrities. Oh. But apparently, your school does. Mom, can you not do this right now?
Honey, these institutions are businesses first. I mean, was this girl even qualified to enter? Or was it purely a publicity stunt? Well, that's my shallow Hollywood roommate. And also one of the nicest, smartest people I've met at college.
Excuse me. I mean, she is not wrong with college just being a business. Yeah. Especially NYU. Yes.
Yeah. I mean, they're basically, like, glorified, like, you know, real estate companies at this point, especially, you know, like NYU. Yeah. The 3 largest landowners in New York City. Yep.
Catholic Church, Columbia, and NYU. Yep. And I went to school in Boston, and Boston was like that too, especially with Harvard. Oh, yeah. Sure.
Like, they actually, hilariously, might have to say that they're a Boston school soon because of how much land they've bought in Boston relative to Cambridge. Yeah. What a downgrade. Yeah. I know.
But, yeah, I just appreciate that they actually even, like, gave us such disparate opinions, and it's also, like, eerily, like, on point, like, Lily's little, like, And I feel like it's very clear that, like, Lily just is not challenged in that way ever. Like, she's just used to sitting in her very expensive penthouse and having, like, very light conversation of, like, oh, you know, your daughter's roommate is a movie star. Like, that's fun. And that's all she was expecting back. Like, there's never any pushback involved in her life at all.
Like, I feel like the worst she sees is maybe Rufus, like, being grumpy about having to go to some society, whatever. But, like, he still goes. He's still living in her penthouse. Like, they could have moved somewhere else that, like, she didn't live with Bart Bass. Like, there were many options available, but, like, she just wants a very smooth life and that's what she caused.
Until Vanessa's mom comes and is like, no. You know what? I'm gonna tell you exactly what I think of you. Yeah. Again, I agree with everything Vanessa's mom just said in these clips, but I do wonder, like, how was the reaction watching this live?
Like, fans probably, you know, sided with Lily. Or, you know, they're probably like, oh, Vanessa's mom is so, like, over the top and annoying. Like, I just imagine that was probably like, I think the show sets you up for that reaction because you only see Vanessa's mom, what, like, twice? Whereas, like, Lily is, like, a regular character and, like, you are in this world of, like, you know, movie stars and private education, and she's the outsider. She's the inner looper.
I feel like they portray her as, like, oh my god, how extreme is this? Right. I also think, like I think everything she said is pretty mild. It's not like she's, like, let's let's see the downfall of capitalism within our lifetimes, guys. Like, she's just like, no.
Yeah. I definitely, like, agree with all the things she was saying, and I do think it's all relatively mild. But also, like, I personally would not necessarily bring them up in that setting. Yeah. I would just be like, okay.
You know, I'm not gonna accomplish anything here. So, yeah, I do think adding that is like, it just kind of the shock factor of like, yeah, she's this outsider. She doesn't understand that these people's lives, and she's just here to, like, make her snippy. These people's lives, and she's just here to, like, make her snippy comments. Because she also is just not that supportive of Vanessa.
So Right. Yeah. And I have to just like her that much. Yeah. It's a bummer because she's cool.
Yeah. And we never get to see her sister who supposedly also sounds cool. Show me the lesbian punk band. I want to see it. And so Gabriella does eventually fuse herself and tells Vanessa that she should maybe work on keeping her opinions to herself and that she will promise to keep an open mind about her school that night.
But obviously, Vanessa never ends up giving her toast, even though Vanessa does say that she'll understand why the school is right for her if she hears it. Unfortunately, basically, Gabriela kinda like witnesses the end of Vanessa's scheming and is, like, deeply disappointed in her. And she says, I think it's time for you to consider who this place is turning you into, which yeah. I don't know. There, I guess.
Yeah. No. That's a fair point. Yeah. And then also, like, at the same time, like, Gabriela, you know, gets on the road early the next day and stands Vanessa up for coffee.
So it's like, you also could be a better parent. So Yeah. Like, your 18 year old like, they obviously, in Gossip Girl, they act like these teenagers are, like, adults, but, like Right. Vanessa's freshly 18. Yeah.
Like, she's still really a child. Like, I understand, like, being upset that she wants to start university, but also, like, she is still your child. You should still meet her for coffee at least. Like, come on. Right.
Or talk to her and be like, oh, you know, you're not the person I knew when we lived together. Like, what's going on in your life? Can I Right? Help you with anything? Like, you know, how can we change this behavior instead of just like, I'm disappointed in you and therefore I'm leaving.
Right. Right. Yeah. Then she comes back again, as we said, in season 3. And I think she's in that, like, Thanksgiving episode that goes viral every Thanksgiving.

(04:13):
The iconic what you say, whatever. Yeah. Which, like, obviously, Gossip Girl and Thanksgiving are like, I feel like a lot of shows will do a Christmas episode every season, but Gossip Girl had a very special commitment, I feel like, to the Thanksgiving episodes. Mhmm. So that is, like, a fun time of the year to revisit this show.
So she's in that scene that you probably saw semi recently on your Instagram feed or your TikTok feed, and, you know, they kind of argue again. I guess what ends up happening in this one is that Gabriella ends up kind of, like, spending her time, like, helping other people with their problems at this at this Thanksgiving instead of actually spending time with Vanessa. And she reminds her of a time that she bought them tickets to a show and spent the whole time talking to a homeless man instead of spending time with her. And Gabriela replies that she cares about people, but is starting to think coming was a mistake, and she should leave. I do think that's an interesting, actually, like, conflict that obviously didn't get explored a ton.
But, like, that I think activists who don't and organizers who don't maybe have the work life balance or the, you know, activism life balance they would like, maybe have of their kids sometimes where it feels, you know, like you stay out late helping other people and you don't spend time with me. You know? Yeah. I think it's pretty accurate portrayal, actually. I think it was entirely accidental.
I I have a feeling the Gossip Girl writers do not know any activists in real life, just a hunch. But no. Like, yeah. I look at some of my friends in ESA who have, like, yeah, really made it their entire lives, and they have no personal life. Yeah.
So it tracks for me that, like, yeah, Gabriela thinks she did the right thing, like, talking to this homeless man outside the concert, but, like, yeah, your daughter bought those tickets for you. Like, don't you wanna look beyond like, obviously, there's a lot of important work to be done, but, like, you are a mother. You had a child. That was clearly a choice you made because you have 2 of them. So, like, you gotta you gotta spend a little time with the kids, you know?
Absolutely. And, like, it's not really the next generation, you know? Yeah. Given this, it's not really a surprise that Vanessa was like, oh, actually, I'm gonna live in the city without you and, like, finish high school. Right.
Because clearly, they don't really have that much of a connection. Yeah. And one of the, like, really depressing facts I can add to this conversation is that, like, organizers, like, labor organizers have really high divorce rates. Yeah. It's like something that you should, you know, you want to keep in mind.
And there are lots of things that you can do to make things better, like organizing a staff union and stuff like that. But, like, you know, it's a real thing. And so I'm surprised that they even briefly touched on it. Yeah. We can talk about this more when we get to the Juliet arc.
But I do think it's interesting to point out that by the 4th season, like we were kind of saying, like Vanessa ends up really getting caught up in, like, you know, the schemes of the upper class, essentially, even though they are largely trying to take down upper class people at that point. Right. I do think that she's very much, like, within their world at this point in playing their games. Yeah. Can someone give me, like, the super quick rundown of exactly how Vanessa got wrapped up into the Juliet scheme because I did watch the Juliet arc, but, like, the end of it, so I kind of missed.
It was the Dan, Serena, Vanessa triangle. Dan and Serena, like, kiss at the end of season 3 while he's still with Vanessa, and it, like, the tension carries over to season 4. And Dan kind of basically chooses, like, Serena's friendship over Vanessa's and that, like, spurs Vanessa into, like, joining up with Juliet who's Got it. And trying to take down Serena. Yeah.
Sure. No. It's like annoying. It's like yeah. It's annoying.
It's not a good portrayal of women at all. But anyway Oh, man. So that was our, like, Vanessa section. Obviously, she's gonna come up, like, throughout some of the plot lines that we're talking about. But those were some, like, very Vanessa specific things I wanted to talk about.
Now we're just gonna kind of, like, from there, largely go chronologically and just kind of talk about plot lines that, you know, especially bring out themes of class, I would say. So obviously, we have the classic, like, Dan and Serena being from different worlds. And, like, the throughout the first season, like, that's kind of their main conflict. Like, I don't know. I thought you were different and, you know, this is who I am, like, over and over again.
Episode 5, Dan, like, takes her to this fancy restaurant where he, like, doesn't know what the food is that he thinks that's what Serena wants. And, like, you know, she wanted him to take her on a dandy, you know, whatever that means. And he has to, like, cancel his own food because he can't afford what Serena ordered. But then Serena says, Sherry took care of the bill, and it's like a very, like, typical plot line in that kind of star crossed romance vibe. There's also a moment where Dany is very uncomfortable and sees a moment when Serena, like, gives him an inexpensive watch, and they end up doing, like, a $50 price limit for their exchange.
He's, like, dry again. And then in the 3rd episode, we're very, you know, very quickly into the season. This episode is called Poison Ivy. We are really shown, you know, both the rich kid parental expectations and how much harder it is for the working class kids to have an edge in this world at the same time. So, like, the opening monologue of that episode is really about the pressure on all the prep school kids to get into IVs, rich kids, for obvious reasons, the poor kids because their parents have sacrificed for their children's futures.
Rufus argues college is about academic excellence, not your stock portfolio, which I agree with. But I agree that that's what it's supposed to be. Yes. But I don't think that's what it is in practice. Yeah.
Especially for Ivy League schools. Yeah. Yeah. Griffith didn't go to college, so what does he know? And Nate's dad, if you know, planning his life for him, Dartmouth, law school, marrying Blair.
Then, of course, me and Laura played field hockey, so we had to shout out the field hockey scene in the episode. And they have the really nice rich kid sticks, the great one. We definitely did not talk to Chris. Immediately. But then the, like, background actors have the, like, starter STX stick that I had.
We went to, like, a school like, the the rich kids' schools were good at field hockey. We were just a public school that happened to have a field hockey team. We were not Yeah. I went to public school. We did not have field hockey.
So that's interesting that, like, you guys didn't have that. Yeah. I think it also could be regional of, like I feel like Oh, you're right. Coast. No.
My yeah, it's an East Coast West Coast thing. Yeah. I don't dox myself too much. But yes, you're right. No.

(04:34):
My mom grew up on the East Coast and she definitely plays field hockey. Anyway Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very obvious from the field hockey scene that none of these actors have ever played field hockey before.
It just makes me really happy. Like, they didn't need to, but they went the extra mile. And you know what? It's great. Dan is trying to get into Dartmouth.
Meanwhile, Nate is being pressured to go to Dartmouth by his family, but doesn't necessarily wanna go. And they kind of have, like, an interaction because Nate gets I guess, they each get to be an usher for this of, again, another thing that's like Whatever Nathan is this, like, obligation you get to do that's, like, an honorary thing or whatever. But Nate gets it even though Dan, like, explicitly said, like, parents have sacrificed everything to send me to the school. Dartmouth is my dream. And Nate is, like, I'm not sure if Dartmouth is my top choice.
And And just, creep it, like, they're acting, like, oh, this is the one chance Dan will have to get into Dartmouth. It's, like, okay, that's definitely not the case, but whatever. I understand it's for the dramatic stakes. Yeah. But I do feel like you kind of see some thought from Nate there where he's like, oh, like, it just genuinely had not occurred to him that there were other people for whom this would be a privilege.
And I feel like you kind of see, like, more semblance of a thought in Nate than you might otherwise. And Dan literally is like, I'm second in our class, and you're last. And this is clearly nepotism. Oh, god. And he tries to do that, like, you don't know anything about my family, and it's like, I think he knows enough.
It's Right. Also, like, I'm sorry you have shit going on at home, but that doesn't mean that, you know, you deserve this usher priority over someone who is doing better in school and wants it more and has, like, very specific academic interests. Right. So Serena is like, this week is hard for everyone. And Dan's like, well, it's clearly harder for me.
My guess that's life when you're not a legacy. And she says, well, hey, just because you're a non usher doesn't mean you're not gonna get into an IV, which is actually a fair point. And then he's, like, yeah? Where did your parents go to school? And she's, like, Harvard and Brown.
Her mom was really slumming it in Providence there. Yeah. I think that's just one of their ways where they try to be like, look, Lily's a little artsy. She's a little offbeat. She went to Brown, not Yeah.
The trio. Which honestly, it's fair. I respect it. Like, if you're going to make a statement, I think that Brown at that time, for someone of her age, should be like, yeah, you can kind of just fuck around and, like, take photos and not really do anything. Okay.
And then Rufus, he's like, there must be a mix up or a glitch in the system. And I was like, it is the system. Like, the system is set up for your child to fail. You would think the man who does anti capitalist rants would understand this better than anyone. But Yeah.
Right. Okay. His power analysis is lacking. Uh-huh. He's even reading his theory.
Yeah. When Serena, like, commandeers Miguel rep just to get back at Blair, Dan notices, and he's like, I get it. You don't have to actually worry about getting into college. So why not make this entire evening about screwing over Blair? And I thought that was definitely a very telling situation.
And Nate, he kinda gives Dan the ability to talk to the, like, Dartmouth rep, so that he does his little good deed of the day, I feel like. And he also, you know, stands up to his dad and is like, I don't want to do Dartmouth. What's interesting is that, like, I think that kind of, like, what do I want to do with my life and do I want to be on this path is kind of Nate's journey. It just isn't clear to me whether he ever found it, or if he just keeps popping from, as you said, older women and, like, various career paths, and I don't know. And then in the finale, in the flash forward, he's, like, maybe gonna run for mayor.
And they're like, you could be the youngest mayor ever elected. I'm like, who is electing Nate to anything, anywhere, for any reason? Story is so depressing to me. Like, Joseph, he's the one who wants out the most. Like, he wants to, like, go to California.
He wants to completely separate himself from his family. And then by the end of the show, he's, like, working at the newspaper his grandfather bought him. And he's like, yeah. Consider your run for mayor, which, like, politics like, he's basically from, like, the show's version of the Kennedy's. So that's just, like, falling into the family line.
Like, it's so it's honestly, like, kinda sad. It is. Totally is. It's also just very funny to see him act like the spectator is, like, some bash of great journalism. He's like, oh, yeah.
You know, we're doing serious work here. This is just this is good journalism. You know, the city needs this. And it's literally like a gossip site. Yeah.
He's Gossip Girl is like his main competitor. Yeah. And it's at one point, I was, like, oh, maybe they're trying to kind of improve it from the ground up or something. And now all of the examples of content they give are all, like, you know Serena's gonna write a column about me. Hit girl.
Right. It's just such nonsense. I'm, like, okay. Of course, he thinks anything he does is so important because he's a Vanderbilt, and, yeah, they have a lot of money. And he's from a big political family, but it's just it's wild.
What's interesting is that in the 4th episode, like, Carter is introduced to us as someone who's, like, seemingly renounced his wealth to be a YouTuber in 2007, which is very funny, because that's a very different thing than being a YouTuber in 2024. Yes. He's the one who, like, created the, like, lost weekend that all the, like, boys do every year or whatever. But he's, like, you know, kind of renouncing his wealth and being, like, we don't need material things, you know, and all that kind of shit. And Nate is really, like, drawn to that.
Like, as we just said, Nate doesn't end up actually renouncing anything, and Carter doesn't either. Like, he returned. He comes back again. He's, like, fully, like I mean, it's a movie like a bad boy, but, like, he's, you know, being a rich kid, I feel like. And it's the same thing that happens with Lily too of, like, she was happy to go on tour with Rufus and be a photographer for a little bit.

(04:55):
But then when her mom came and threatened to cut her off, like, you know, she doesn't care that much about Rufus, and she just went back to her old life. Like, she went to her Ivy League school. She married many rich men, and she did what was expected of her. Yeah. Which that's the thing about Gossip Girl.
It's like I don't think any of these are, like, unrealistic arcs. Like, I think that all shit that would happen in real life if these were real people. Gossip Girl presents this as if it's, like, aspirational. And to me, it's like a tragedy. All these characters had the capacity to have a better life, and they all became their parents.
Every single one of them became their parents at the end, which was their biggest fear in season 1. Yeah. Again, it's presented like this happily ever after. Yeah. There's no, I feel like, darkness to it in a way that could be very interesting Yeah.
Of, you know, the cycle repeats itself forever, a la succession, if you will. Right. But yeah. And especially, like, Blair, I was just, like I was thinking last night, I was, like, she should have, like, gone to business school or something. Like, if she was actually gonna run her mother's fashion line, like, she obviously is not a designer, but.
That she, like, gets to take over a company without a college degree. Right. Like, without, like, Chuck's shoes going to college. Like, Chuck, Nate, and Blair all take over companies without college degrees and, like, are, like, boss it's absurd that anyone would like and I'm not saying like, obviously, it's easier for, like, a rich person to, like, start a company, but, like, you usually need to go to business school still. Like Like, you need to know the day to day.
Right. You, like, work your way up even if, like, you got in the door because of your narcissism Like, it's absurd. Which again is, like, that's just what they wanted to do for the content farm of the you know, they're not gonna actually show anyone going to business school. You mind much better story lines of Chuck and Blair and Nate, like, running the business than them being, like, a lowly assistant in the business, you know? Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Chuck gets to have, like, cool ideas for, you know, weird night clubs where, like, they're turning into, you know, where sex workers are or whatever. But Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I get that that's more fun and interesting. But also, it's like he's 17. Right. Maybe 18 when he takes over Bass Industries.
Like, what is this man, this boy actually doing? Right. Exactly. Who would this like, can you imagine being a worker at Bass Industries and, like, your new boss is, like, the freshly 18 year old son of your deceased boss? Like, how did anyone take him seriously?
I mean, I feel like in real life, he wouldn't be doing anything of substance. He would maybe come to, like, the board meeting or something, or he would be, like, copied on some emails, but he is not actually making any decisions that involve real money. But here, I feel like they just thrust him into actually being that Right. Of vast industries, which is ridiculous. So we have, you know, the first debutante episode is another big one where, like, we get Dan's opinions.
You know, he calls it out of touch and totally class this, but he's meeting Serena's grandmother there. And that's, you know, him getting introduced to the fact that Serena's grandmother is willing to pay Rufus off to not have Dan take Serena to the ball. And that's the situation where Carter comes back, and he's there to take her. And I think what's really interesting about, like I mean, obviously, the debutante plotline is a plotline in every rich kid teen drama. But, like, just every time it gets me the, like, grand entrance and then, like, describing, like, which charities these girls want to, like, you know, support or whatever.
I mean, obviously, it's very funny that Sabrina ends up rewriting her description that her mom wrote to say that she plans to bed many billionaires, which is truly what her mom did. Literally. It's just like I don't know. Like, just like the way that they talk about their futures is just so wild. Just already assuming that you're gonna have wealth because obviously, all of these people do.
Mhmm. You don't have to actually think about, like, what your career is gonna be. Like, maybe you could have one. That'd be fun for you. But, like, what charities are you gonna support?
Right. Which is also interesting. This is, like, kind of a left turn, but made me think of it. Interesting to juxtapose, like, Lily versus Eleanor because they both, it seems, come from a lot of family money. But Eleanor has a very successful business, and I feel like that maybe wasn't given the weight that it could have been.
Like, you know, this is a great role model in this culture slash society where women are mostly not working. They are there to donate money to charities and, like, put on a pretty dress and talk about their, you know, oh, your roommate's a celebrity. Like, that really is all that's expected. So it is actually pretty cool to see Eleanor being so successful and, like, building a business to a point where Blair would take it over and that's, like, the acceptable kind of next step. It's not kind of, oh, this is her fun hobby of, like, she didn't design stuff and then, like, someone makes it hurriedly in a corner and that, like, you know, placates her, but it's actually, like, you know, she's an important designer.
There is one interesting moment in, like it's the Seder episode that's that's 221. Like, Blair lost Yale, and she's, like, back with Nate, and she's, like, exploring the idea of, like, just being a socialite with the rest of her life. And Eleanor makes this comment, like, Waldorf women are not socialites. Mhmm. Like, again, it's never deeply explored, but it's it's very interesting seeing the concept between the Waldorf's and the Vander Woodsen's in that way.
Yeah. Definitely. But yeah. So the next episode that I think is important for us to talk about, we're gonna watch a couple clips from, is the school lies, episode 12 of the first season, when they have an illegal pool party in their school. Who could have thought that that with a bunch of alcohol and drugs could have gone wrong.
Right? But, yeah, someone gets knocked into the pool during, like, a stupid fight, and, you know, basically, they obviously get caught because they have to, like, call an ambulance. And all of the kids immediately agree that no one will speak, so no one can get in trouble. And they say it in a very, like, we know what to do. Like, we've done this before kind of way.
And unfortunately, Dan showed up, which is the biggest snag in their plan because he's like, what now? I'm not gonna go down for this shit. It's very, like, I don't know, like secret history vibes. We're gonna cover things up, and, well, you know, protecting these people's reputations and public image is more important than any one person having gotten hurt or anything like that. So I think what an interesting scene to watch is Dan confronting Chuck about how he knows that he has the key and, like, either is the person who broke in or knows who the person is, and they have quite a back and forth.
Chuck, you need to tell the truth. Whatever happened to don't speak until spoken to? I just saw you with that key. I know you had it at the party. Poor little Humphrey, Dunty.
Look, let me clarify something for you. Regardless of who you're currently sleeping with, you and I come from different worlds. In my world, if I'm suspended or expelled, a wing is donated in the bass name. That sounds like quite a world. Well, it's not perfect, I'll admit, but one thing it does offer in spades is security.

(05:16):
My family can take care of me. What do the Humphreys have to offer? Use metro cards? Your dad's Kasingle? And in case you were wondering, you narc.
I only took the key from the party to hide it so we didn't all get blamed, including you. There's also an interesting conversation after that between Dan and Serena, where Dan says, like, maybe the reason none of you take this seriously is because for you, it's not. And he says he's all for loyalty and for sticking together, but we are not in the same boat here. This is where he says, I'm on a partial scholarship. My parents have no way of buying me back into this school or any other.
I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion if you're a band of brothers. But if the person of the key refuses to step up and anybody who knows anything has the right to say something. Do you know who it is? And then he realizes she does and he's, you know, real mad. She's like, you don't understand.
He's like, you're right. I don't understand. And I think, like, all of the rich kids, like, genuinely also don't understand what it's like to be down and have to worry about these things. Like, it has just always worked out for all of them. And, like, there's no willingness to compromise on that and be like, oh, you know what?
What if my family didn't have the money to build a basswing if anything bad happened to me? Like, how would my life be different? How would I move through the world? But, you know, rich kids are gonna rich kid. Yep.
Couple interesting plot line this episode where Vanessa, like, gets Chuck and Blair on camera talking about having, like, hooked up. And basically, like, she ends up being in the middle of their, like, little game and ends up being able to, like, get a bunch of money out of it, which is kind of funny. Yeah. Doesn't Blair, like, pay her rent for a year? She doesn't owe her anything, and I'm like, okay.
Okay. Great. And it's for Vanessa. Right. Like, honestly, like, 10 to 10, no notes.
She really, like, just got everything out of that situation that she could and played some rich people, and it was amazing. Good partner. So uses Chuck's Bunny to, like, create a wing in a hospital, like the Chuck Bass wing for sexual transmitted teens or something funny like that? Yes. Yeah.
It's really good. She got them good. So, you know, both Farina and Dan end up in front of the headmistress. And the headmistress really puts in front of him, like, you have a partial scholarship. You're number 2 in your class.
It looks like your dreams are well within your grasp, but it seems you're in a new crowd this year. And it's very funny. She says, like, dating Serena van der Wissen. And he's like, is that in my file? But anyway, she, like, really tries to play on his, like, class anxieties.
And it's like, let me remind you one last time that you're in a different position than the others. You need this school. And that's when Serena comes in to confess that it was her. So I think that the conversation that Dan and Serena have directly after that is very interesting. I can't believe she didn't expel me.
Yeah. I know. It's shocking. I 25 hours of community outreach. That's not bad at all.
I mean, I probably would have done it anyway being as I'm on the committee. That had occurred to me. Yeah. Wait. What are you saying?
No. No. No. I'm not saying anything. Believe me.
So you don't buy what she said about me being the poster child for the new honor code? Look. I know for a fact my mom didn't plead my case or donate anything. Okay? I didn't say a thing.
Are you really turning this into an upstairs downstairs thing? No. No. You are. I'm being completely silent.
I'm just happy that you're not being expelled or giving time at a time soon. Are you hungry and shit? Always. But you still believe that there's a double standard that people like me get special treatment. Miss Vander Woodson.
Mother sent me to pick you up. Oh, great. That was thoughtful. I think you get no special treatment at all. Your life is completely uncharted and average.
It's okay. I'll walk. No. Come on. I I was kidding.
I was kidding. You going to Brooklyn? And also we later find out that Chuck told Bart about Serena's trouble at school, and that Bart did indeed make a call. So she's wrong. It's so funny that Serena, like, has a chip on her so shoulder of, like, oh, Dan, you're so annoying.
Like, you know, I can't believe you're always insisting my life is different. It's like, of course, it measurably is. And Serena also is one of those characters, like, she seems to know in the pilot that, like, she came from, like, this toxic, like, privileged world. But then, yeah, it, like, goes back and forth between, like, I gotta leave this world. I'll never have anything good in it.

(05:37):
But, oh, this world's my home. It's the best thing ever. And, like, it's just very Which is an interesting tension. I don't think that it's, like, explicit enough in the show. Oh, it's not really thought out, I think, the way they wrote Serena in that sense.
Yeah. I feel like we we see it a little bit from Lily too of just knowing her past with Rufus of, like, she tried to get out of it for some period of time. And then it was like, oh, no. Actually, this is where all of my security is. So, yeah, I do think that echo is interesting, but would have liked to see more of it.
Yeah. I think another thing that's worth talking about in season 1 is just, like, Jenny's, like, kind of first go around of hanging out with the minions. And I think that one thing that I really noted was that, like, she's constantly being nickeled and dimed by them for, like, every little meal they go on together and stuff. And I'm like, I've heard people, like, make that comment to her before that rich people are much more likely to be like, hey, you owe me, like, $10 for those drinks last night. And I'm like, a poor person is more likely to be like, whatever I got through this time, you know?
And it feels like it's very much stressed here. And, yeah, Jenny basically just like is trying so hard to fit in with the whole group of minions. And she ends up stealing a dress that she didn't realize was a custom and gets into a whole bunch of trouble there. That story is so stressful. It is so stressful.
And she ends up having this huge breakdown with her dad and being like, I sold my my sewing machine and a lamp and some jewelry. And she says, dad, you think you can just send me off to school with a plaid skirt and a Metro card, and everything will be okay? And he's like, I'm not apologizing for not having a private plane for you, Jenny. And she says, you think I'm ashamed of where I come from? No, dad.
But I'm ashamed of us having to bring a brown bag lunch to school and eat it in the pretend I'm not hungry when I go to lunch with them. And he said, if you don't have to do those things, Jenny, you're making a choice. And she says, what don't you get? Do you want me to choose to have no friends? Well, clearly, it's not even a choice anymore because that's just done.
And so that kinda brings back the same question we were talking about from the pilot of, like, do you really want your kids to be in this world? Or do you want them to just kinda, like, clock in and clock out, like, every day for school and somehow be unaffected? That's one of those arguments where I'm, like, they're both right. Right. Like Yeah.
Yeah. Rufus is right. They're, like, she is choosing to She's choosing to go to these extremes. Yeah. Right.
But at the same time, like, he's not under like, she's a 14 year old girl. Like, of course, she's gonna, like, look at what her classmates have and, like, compare herself and, like, wanna fit in. And, like, he's lacking the empathy that I think he should have in that conversation. When he made the conscious choice to send them Right. To this school.
And he at the very least from Lily, like, knew what that world was and what the expectations were Mhmm. And did not want that for his children. Right. It's like you can't really have both Rufus. And, like, I'm sure there are other, like, pretty normal girls at Constance who Jenny could be friends with.
Yeah. There has to be. Yeah. Like but Yeah. But That's not the job and that's not as interesting.
So It also goes back to the aspirational nature. Like, she has to be friends with the most popular girls like the Right. The queen bee and her minions who are all women of color anyway. Yep. Oh my god.
Who are, like, not named for a while, I feel like. Like, I thought they eventually get like Penelope gets a name. Like, I know some of them get names, but I feel like Neli and Isabelle. Well, Neli Yuki definitely. Yeah.
She gets introduced kinda separately, like, after a ripen. Yeah. I'm trying to remember. There's, like, the 2, Coddy and Izz. Yeah.
Coddy and Isabelle. They're from the beginning. But are they named in the pilot? I need I would need to go back and rewatch the season name. I doubt it.
But maybe they're, like, named the next time they appear or something. Yeah. I think it's probably, like, in passing, or maybe they're referred to when it's not super clear exactly which characters those are. But yeah. They don't ever have their own individual story lines, and they're not, like, delineated from each other in any way.
It's always like the 2 of them until I think maybe Coddy. I think the actress must have gotten another job because I think it's like, oh, her dad I think had to move her work or something. During the writers strike maybe? Mhmm. Something happened during the writers strike where, like, she yeah.
The other guy had another job or she went to college or something like that that they had to write her off. And then, yeah, they, like, replaced her. Right. They replaced her all day. Yuki.
They got another Asian actress. I'm just a little Wild. Well, you had, like, some character traits and, like, there were storylines associated with her. That was great. Yeah.
Of course, the Asian girl, like, really wants to go to Yale and is Blair's biggest enemy, but, you know. And who she needs to take down in, like, these vicious ways too. Oh, Blair. It's also an interesting plot line at the end of season 1 where Jenny ends up, like, basically being a beard for the status. And, like, I don't know how else to, like, sum it up.
Basically, he, like, explicitly says that he, like, gives her access and status and resources. Dan confronts Jenny at one point and is like, you're letting Asher use you. And she's like, you think you're so different and so good? Well, guess what, Dan? The minute you start sending tips to Gossip Girl, you're in the game of the rest of us, which, apparently, he was writing the game the whole time.

(05:58):
Oh my god. Apparently, she knew. Apparently, she knew too. That's one of those moments where it's like, it just doesn't track Right. At at all.
Well, I think they say in the finale that, like, Jenny knew as of a few years ago from the finale, but, like, I don't think necessarily the entire time. Yeah. You're right. It's unclear. I know she definitely Gossip Girl revealing that was her decision.
It's yeah. You're right. It's not totally clear when Jenny finds out. So we're gonna move into some season 2 plot lines. So one that I thought was worth mentioning was Dan and Serena being stuck in an elevator together during a blackout and having similar situation as to what happened, you know, with the pool party, where they're stuck in an elevator in Serena's building.
And they call. He doesn't mention Serena's name, and she's like, you should have mentioned my name. And he gets all, like, annoyed and calls back. And they're like, okay. We're sending someone after I say her name.
First of all, she is a resident. So, like, I understand why they might come more quickly for someone who pays to live in the building. I agree. But greater point, definitely take. Yes.
You know, this is when they're, like, think her and me back together at the beginning of season 2, and they are, like, maybe we're having the same fight we had all of last season. They end up breaking up again. So there's the infamous time that Dan is told to go out of his comfort zone and hangs out with Chuck and decides that he's gonna write about Chuck's life and from his point of view. So that kind of sets up the beginning, foreshadows him eventually writing about this world, which we'll definitely talk about. And then, of course, like, when they all visit Yale, Dan is, again, freaking out.
So it is interesting that it changes from Dartmouth to Yale. I kinda forgot about that. But at some point, he changes his dreams. Yeah. I think it was just, like, a matter of convenience.
They're just like, we want them all just to be focused on Yale. Like, it sets up, like, tension Yeah. Between Dan, Blair, and Serena. Like, it'll add more story lines if Dan wants to go to Yale too. So many story lines in this show that, like, I didn't realize on my first watch because I was a child how ridiculous they are.
But the fact that in this episode, they say to Dan, you need another letter of recommendation. Find a professor at Yale who does not know you, a school to which you do not attend. Make them read your writing, and then write a letter of recommendation. That's gonna get you into Yale. Wild.
Thank you. That school is the funniest thing. Another thing that's funny is that, like, Nate, like, being targeted while they're there because his dad, like, fucked up a lot of kids' trust funds was a funny detail as well. But, yeah, another episode that is kind of an interesting one when it comes to Chuck is when Vanessa is trying to save this particular speakeasy. She's doing a petition for landmark status, but she considering coming to the school to hand out flyers to the guilty rich, which Dan jokes doesn't exist at his school.
And she's like, well, maybe one of their mommies or daddies is looking for their next cause. And she ends up kind of getting Chuck interested somehow in saving this building. It's an interesting plotline because, also, Chuck, like, defending his decision to his dad, talking about, like, oh, it's gonna be, like, such a great tax break and, like, give us amazing PR. But it's also, like, both of the things you have to do to get rich people to do things that you want them to do. So it would it it it's an interesting plot line.
And obviously, also, like, Vanessa fucking hates Chuck, but, like, sometimes you gotta use people who will give you the money, I guess. I I will say as a non Chuck and Blair fan, this is, like, the one episode that I've ever watched where I thought Chuck was better than Blair. Like, Blair's really awful in this episode. Like, she's, like, clearly, Chuck would only care about black people if he was trying to, like, fuck Vanessa. It's very twisted and awful of Blair.
And it's just, yeah. Oh my god. There was one episode where Nate just, like, knows how to drive, which, I mean, I guess they all like summer places. Country houses. Yeah.
That's true. Okay. That explains how I was just like, do I really like New Yorkers never know how to drive? But that I I believe that. That's why there it is mentioned that Blair canically does not know how to drive.
Okay. Well, I totally believe that. Yeah. When she meets Cyrus, Blair, like, has this one liner where she's like, Cyrus will think we're common upper middle class because they were using the everyday China. And I'm Jesus Christ.
There's a I can't even remember who said that, but there's a line from the 12th episode of the second season where somebody is like, where is she? How long does that subway thing take? That's good. This brings us to the grandfather, which is an interesting episode in season 2 that introduces us to the fact that Nate's family, the Vanderbilts, are basically the Kennedys. Yeah.
And Vanessa and Nate are dating at this point, and they have this whole plan to, like, backpack you, like, Eastern Europe. And instead, Nate kinda just gets, you know, roped into potentially being a intern in the mayor's office. They show Dan, Vanessa, and Nate all these, like, portraits of elected officials and their family. I think they call it the Hall of Governors. And Nate can, like, recite the family history.
There's also a point where they talk about the family crest, and Dan's like, you think the countries have a crest? Something Jenny can stitch on to one of my cardigans? I just think it's very interesting how, like, what a family means to people is actually very different for these, like, owning class people who like, you know, their families are basically like brands. You know, and it's it's crazy. And I think that's a big amount of what they show when they show the, like, more, like, warm Humphrey family scenes juxtaposed to, like, this, like, you must have this internship to get you to the place we want you to be to, like, uphold the legacy of the Vanderbilt family.
I also wanna bring up new money versus old money, and I think this one sounds like a great place to bring it up. Like, because at the end of the episode, like, Blair and Nate reconnect, and the way Chuck finds out is he sees, Nate's jacket with the Vanderbilt crest on it in Blake's place. And that's something that is always implicit. It's definitely never explicitly really explored in the show much between Nate and Chuck, but there's definitely this new money, old money tension, especially, like, in regards to the love triangle with Blair. Like, Nate is obviously, like, old money from the, like, classic American family.
Like, they're yeah. They're the Kennedys or even older. Like, they're story. They're noble, like, whatever. You know?
They're the good, rich, whatever. Whereas, like, Chuck is very much due money. Like, Bart Bass was, like, a self made billionaire, which is an oxymoron, but, like, whatever. That's how he's presented in the show. They are the Trumps.

(06:19):
Like, they are. They're very explicitly, like, modeled off the Trump family. Like, they're hotel owners. Like, in the books, they own the Plaza Hotel, not the Palace Hotel, which was owned by Trump at the time the books were written. So, like, the, like, the parallels are definitely there.
Like, they make references to the Trump family throughout. Like, at one point, Trump says that he I mean, Trump. At one point, Chuck says that he slept with Ivanka Trump because they had, like, this, like, rival thing going on Oh, god. Between their families. So, like, it's very much like yeah.
The Bassas are the Trumps, the Archibalds or the Vanderbilts are the Kennedys, and, like, yeah, that's very present in, like, Nate in Chuck's dynamic, I think, of why Chuck is always threatened by Nate. Like, Chuck's never really threatened by Dan when Blair and Dan get together beyond, like, him taking away Blair's affection. But, like, Chuck is very much threatened by Nate throughout the entire series, I think, but especially in seasons 1 and 2 when, like, they're both still interested in Blair. And, like, I think Chuck again, this is all maybe me projecting, but, like, I feel like Chuck is very aware that, like, Nate is the old money guy. He is the classic good guy.
He is Right. He's just more acceptable, I think. Yeah. He's like, who your parents want you to marry or whatever. Right.
And, like, the whole thing, like, he and Blair have been dating since kindergarten. It was very much like their life was laid out for them. Nate's family is respectable. And, like, the Vanderbilts are, like, a respectable New York family. Like, you know, in real life, like, gilded age, the Vanderbilts, like, Vanderbilt Hall in Grand Central.
Like, there are multiple, like, streets named after Vanderbilt in New York City. Like, it's very much, like, a family of the city. So that definitely tracks an addition to them. I'm sure being modeled off the Kennedys a little bit. So yeah.
Yeah. Like, Jack Sloshberg, someone made a comment being like on Twitter, like, oh, you're a Boston guy. And he's like, oh, well, what's Grand Central name? What's the reservoir name? Like, what's the airport name?
Like yeah. Like, New York has become very much modeled by the Kennedys in the same way that, like, presumably that would be true of Nate's family in the show. So one little scene that's very short from this episode I wanted to watch was when there's a security check at the family reunion. Dan has, like, my favorite line probably from the whole show. Here you go.
Thanks. Yep. Yep. Security check? I can't even fit my lipstick in here.
What could I pass while you're trying to sneak in? I don't know. The rural agenda? Universal health care, education reform, increasing the estate tax. I'm like, thank you for bringing these ideas onto the show for even, like, the smallest second.
I'm very much a big Dan would be a birdie bro theorist. That's very much what I think. Like, I see people try to, like, mostly haters of Dan, be like, he's conservative blah blah. I'm like, no. No.
Show. He clearly, at the very least, has a liberal, if not leftist lean. Yeah. And we know that his dad, at least at one point, you know, with his anti capitalist friends, like, I definitely think he would have been primed to be more leftist. Yeah.
I agree. But seeing that He's very glib. Yeah. For sure. Exactly.
Seeing that Nate's family reunion reminded me that I wanted to say, like, an extension of kind of what we consider to be family. What is a loving family? What is like a rewarding family? Just thinking about, like, Nate's versus Chuck's And, you know, Nate's family is definitely cold, but there are a lot of them. They do support each other.
They are very present in each other's lives for good and bad. And then with Chuck, it's like, you know, is his family actually his family? Right. Who are his parents? Are they dead or alive?
Like, it's just very all Multivatable. He has nothing nothing to anchor him. He has the evil uncle who might be his father. Like, it's very, gosh. There's, like, multiple candidates for Chuck's real mother.
It's crazy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was reading some of the recaps of the, like, Elizabeth woman who shows up. I was, like, oh my god.
I forgot about that. But also, like, Elizabeth Hurley might be his mom, but also maybe not. It's ridiculous. You know, Vanessa's very, like, sad because Nate ends up, like, in front of everyone, like, accepting the internship, essentially. And, I mean, they're not going on their trip.
And when she talks to Dan and Jenny back at their place, she's like, god, I'm hungry. Why do rich people insist on tiny food? And Dan jokes like, well, that's how they stay rich. They only buy small food. I'll laugh and eat their pizza.
So then also at this point, Stan gets into Yale, but he is denied financial aid, which I do believe that they would be in that really tricky category of people who, like, maybe have enough to be qualified for financial aid, but don't have enough to afford it. Like, I feel like I knew people like that when I was in college who had to, like, you know, transfer or whatever because they were denied financial aid. And that feels very real. But I feel like if Rufus' income is sufficient to support 2 kids even on partial scholarship in part of the school, I guess Jenny is, like, not at that time in school or, like, whatever question mark. But, like, Rufus clearly has the money.
I think it was, like, a catch 22 situation where he, like, sold the gallery. Oh, right. Yeah. College, but then, like, the sale of the gallery, like, inflated his income. Mhmm.

(06:40):
Yeah. It was like which again, I think it's very less taken, like, something that would actually happen. But then, of course, when it's NYU gives great financial aid, you're like, okay. Well, no. No.
Absolutely not. Yeah. No. And so then the episode that I think we mentioned a little bit earlier that is very interesting and because of this money trouble now is 221 seder anything? It's always funny when they, like, have just, like, Cyrus being, like, the, like, you know, token Jewish person on the show being, like, I'm gonna make you all sit at this, you know, seder table.
But then they all just are, like, rude and, like, interrupt with their drama the whole time. Yeah. I was, like, genuinely very upset watching this. I was, like, okay. Even if you're not Jewish or not religious at all, like, this clearly is very important to this man, so, like, you have to shut up.
The Judaism and the gospel are so interesting because obviously, like, Josh Schwartz is Jewish. And I'm sure there were a lot of other like Lila Gerstein, I know she was a writer on Gossip Girl for some season, she was Jewish. Obviously it was Jewish creators behind the scenes, and yet like for New York City there's really not a lot of Jewish people at Gossip Girl which is great. I very much believe that I think I think they were in the book maybe. The Humphreys were Jewish maybe in the book.
They definitely should have been Jewish to the show in my opinion. I think it would have added another interesting element. Like, you know, Chuck always has a lot of like, he's not of our world, but like dance to like a white guy. Totally. I think it would have been more interesting if they were Jewish.
But anyway Yeah. I definitely think that would have been an interesting extra layer. I don't remember that from the books, but it's definitely possible. Maybe maybe maybe not. I'm not surprised that, like, none of the rich upper east side people are Jewish because although there is actually a history of Jewish people living on the upper east side, it's not like those money families.
You know, they're clearly like blue blood, like Yeah. Money wasps, which is fine. It's just you would think there would be Jewish kids at constant though, you know. Mhmm. Totally.
Like, there would be some more understanding of what Passover is. Yeah. At the very least. Yeah. It's like nobody wants this where, like, Kristen Bell has lived in Los Angeles her entire life, but yet has seemingly never met a Jewish person.
Oh, yes. I heard about that. Yes. Yes. Like, the two places where, like, historically Jewish people live in this country.
Right. You would think you have heard of a rabbi. But anyway Yeah. So yeah. So Dan ends up taking his catering gig, and it turns out that he is a waiter at the Waldorf House for the Seder.
And, you know, that just introduces a very interesting dynamic. You know, eventually, Rufus finds out, and he's only trying to help with college. And Rufus also through this is told that Williamsburg is already over, which is funny Sure. Whatever that even means. And he says, I didn't realize the whole neighborhood could be over.
I remember noting when so Dan obviously, like, he is being the caterer, but he doesn't want his dad to find out. So he's kind of we're trying to pretend that he's not, whatever. And then Eleanor speaks to him and is like, oh, you need to, like, go do these things in his position as cater waiter. And Rufus is like, oh, like, she was pretty rude to you, wasn't she? But, like, doesn't defend his son.
And I'm like, you should really stand up for him. Yeah. If you actually think that's happening, it is actually pretty wildly rude. Yeah. Yeah.
I wanna work up something in the costuming, which is, like, the reason Dan can get away with it, like, pretending that he's not there to be a cater waiter, is, like, he's wearing, like, a white shirt and a black tie, which is, like, pretty standard cater waiter uniform. But that's also Dan's standard uniform, especially like in the early seasons of what he wears to all these fancy events. It's always like a white shirt and like a black tie, which like the other character like Chuck obviously wears a lot of, you know, bow ties, especially at this point in the show, a lot of color. He's the dandy. Nate wears a lot of blue, a lot of navy.
So Dan, like, even before this episode, he's always kind of dressed, like, for lack of a better term, the help, which shows, like, what his, like, you know, class standing is. Right. And he definitely, I'm sure, has, like, one tie that he Right. Got for, like, a family wedding or something. And so, like, that's the only thing that he can wear because he has no reason to purchase another tie.
So, like, even if it doesn't fully fit the event, like, that's what he's wearing. Right. So things really change between seasons 23 for the Humphrey family because that's when we're officially, like, really they married at this point, or do they just get together? They get engaged, like, then season 2 when they marry, like, very early on in season 3. So they're, like, together together.
Their families are blending, and they're in the Hamptons all summer. Jenny is, you know, doing a lie in because she doesn't wanna leave. Dan asked Rufus if coffee will taste us good in the welcome back Kotter mug at home now that he spent all summer drinking coffee out of Fifi's at China. And he says, I like the real world too. Well, since we'll be at Lilly's, it's a better smelling, higher thread count version of the real world.
But Dan is going back to Brooklyn. So that was where I was like, damn, they're keeping the loft even though they're moving it every side. But, hey, like, they don't need to sell it. Yeah. I mean, you know what?
Do you. I would keep that property too. Yeah. There is also a point at which, I think it's maybe season 5 or so, when they're, like, back in the loft loft for some extended it's because of Ivy. Okay.
Yes. Yeah. The like Ivy inherits all Stacy's money and Stacy, like, technically owns the penthouse. Mhmm. So they have to move back to the loft.
And then, like, Lily's complaining and whatever. I'm, like, this is a very nice loft. It's very large. Lily has so much money that, like, if she really wanted to, she could renovate it. Like, you wouldn't need to do very much.

(07:01):
Like, yeah, you know, I'm sure the furniture is outdated and stuff, but, like, you could very easily replace that. There's so much you could do that I was just annoyed at her for, like, you know, while she was not living in it, like, they could have done so much. It's such a nice space. It really is. I only imagine how much.
Well, you looked it up. It's like 8,000 a month now. Yes. That is for a 1 bedroom loft. I don't have the square footage up on here, but I think it was like a 1,000 square feet.
Like Yeah. This is like a 3 bedroom loft. I was googling to try to find out if I could figure out where they shoot the exterior. Oh, I have that info somewhere. It's like I literally am gonna pull it up right now.
Okay. Because what I found I have it. In multiple sources was 455 Water Street Yes. Yes. Which does not exist in Brooklyn.
You're right. I remember also, like, Nate wrote their address at one point and so maybe that's where it comes from. But Yes. You're right. That's where it comes from.
It's Water Street. It's like right under the Brooklyn Bridge. So I tried to find an, like, a similar apartment. And for a 1 bedroom loft, it's $8,000 a month. Okay.
It is 2 baths, so that's probably, like, 1 and a half baths. So, you know, you're getting your money's worth there. Real exterior shots were of 30 Washington Street Apartments, which is a rental only building, which let's look right now. Available unit, $4,650 a month. Yeah.
I found I just googled 220 Water Street, which is just like a similar building nearby. And you can actually get a 3 bedroom for $7,904 a month. So that's basically a steal. Yeah. For New York?
You know? Yeah. Yeah. And I will also say that right under the bridge like that, the train is very loud coming over the Manhattan Bridge. So that is actually, like, that would not be great for your quality of life.
Like, yes, you can get used to the train, but, like, it probably is, like, genuinely a hazard for your hearing. Yeah. Totally. I was in Brooklyn Bridge Park recently, and was thinking about that. When Dan gets back to the city after the Hamptons, Vanessa and Dan have a couple of conversations about the fact that he has, you know, really accustomed himself to the, you know, the rich person life and how, you know, perhaps they're growing apart.
So first, they're in a cafe talking about their summer. Listen to your quality problems. Serena's being chased by paparazzi. My dad and sister are house sitting a penthouse, and I have a farmer's tan. Alright.
Okay. You got me. The good life is is actually it's pretty good. What, what was so important that you had to bring me here to tell me in person? I, hope it's not about Nate.
Oh, we hooked up one night in Prague, but it was no big deal. But after I came back and started hanging out at this place Please tell me you're not working here. I am so done serving coffee. Thank god. Just made some new friends.
1 in particular, he was here this morning. Oh, so you are dating someone. His name's Scott. I think you guys would really like each other. We actually met him here in the spring for, like, 5 seconds.
He had just transferred. We've been hanging out, and okay, maybe there's been a little bit of flirting. Oh, thank you. Let me get him. Okay.
Wait. Why do you have a knockoff designer wallet? I thought you hated intellectual property theft. Oh, it's to hold all your $100 bills. Do you know how hard it is to break one of those things?
I don't even know why they make them. I'm kidding. Sort of. It it's not a knockoff. It's a graduation present from Lily, as is what's in it.
And you know what? I I thought I'd never use it, but have you seen the stitching? Oh my god. Dan Humphrey's been seduced by wealth. It had to happen.
Even Frodo eventually gave him to the power of the ring. Oh, come on. Still me. I just have a nicer wallet. And as for your phone, I'd love to meet him.
How about tomorrow? We can do Brooklyn things like go to the dumpling truck and play signed or unsigned on the promenade. That sounds great, but I, I have to do this thing for my dad. So Okay. We'll find time.
Walk you to a subby? No. I'm I'm on the 6th. Oh, right. Seems to me.

(07:22):
You left me. Oh, thanks. These are my friends. She sees him getting into a limo, and later, she complains to Scott about how he lied to her, and it's like Scott, who is Lillian Rufus' secret love child, by the way. Mitch, I have so many thoughts about that.
It's unfathomable to me that, like, 19 year old Lily or however old she was, didn't just get an abortion because, like, absolutely, if she was in that social class, like, her family would just be, like, oh, sorry. We can't have scandal. Like, you're not taking this baby. Personal theory is that she didn't wanna abort Rufus' baby. That's the only way I can make sense of it.
Like, the same way it makes no sense that, like accept it, but on now. It's the same way that, like, Georgina not having an abortion also doesn't make any sense. Like, it's all obviously just for drama. Like, Georgina has this Russian love child that she says is Dan's. Oh, Lily has this love child with Rufus.
Like, again, none of it, like, in real life. Those are absolutely characters that would have just gotten abortion. But Right. And that takes all the drama out. Right.
Because I I do get frustrated with media. Like, Waitress is one of my favorite movies. And I feel like people are often like, oh, like, she should have just gotten an abortion. It's like, okay, well then the movie wouldn't exist. So you have to take a look at it.
Different class. Yeah. For sure. Like, that's not comparable here. That was just, like, the first thing that came to my head.
But, yeah, it's just that whole storyline kind of makes me crazy because it's like it's just not handled very well at all and is not very sensitive, I feel, to adoption in general. No. Like the evil adopted parents. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And I I I know this is also just like the language at the time, but I'm sensitive to saying like, oh, you gave me up for adoption or like gave him up. It's it should really be like placed for adoption or something like, gave someone up is very like not the kindest language to use. So that definitely is like grading for me personally. But then it's like Rufus is just so mad about it and like doesn't understand how she could have possibly, like, you know, she felt shame or didn't know, you know, she was very young.
Like, yes, she had a lot of money, but, you know, she probably felt like she didn't have that many choices, and she didn't know what Rufus would do. And, like, it's just from all parties is frustrating to watch, and I feel like Rufus is so moralistic about it. And it's like, how could you ever do that to me? And it's like, okay, well, consider what this, you know, pregnant 19 year old child. Girl.
Right. Yeah. Right. Like, was thinking at the time. It just sucks that they never, like, bring it up again.
Like, they find out that that's their son. They have, like, this touching moment. He, like, comes to their wedding. You literally never see or hear about Scott ever again. I was gonna ask if I missed it, but no.
No. Never again they ever bring him up. And it's absurd. Absurd. Because it's such obviously a major storyline.
And, like, would still affect those characters. Like, it could go away. If you found your long lost biological son, maybe you would invite him for thanksgiving. I don't know. But Yeah.
Exactly. And, like, I buy that Lily would be, like, oh, sorry, you know, like, this is not my child, even though it is her biological child. But, like Sure. I have no family for her or something very different. And, like, I I understand how she would kind of cut emotional ties that way.
But Rufus, like, dad of the century or at least he thinks he is, he absolutely would be inviting what's his name to Thanksgiving. And, you know, like, he would be just so involved in that kid's life. Totally. So, yes, Scott is kind of just Vanessa's friend at this point, I guess. But yeah.
There's been some flirting, but they have not actually. But anyway, he obviously is trying to, like, encourage Vanessa to get him around his parents. So when he hears that Dan helping his dad actually means that he has to go to the Vanderbilt parody polo match, which is like, what? Okay. Play polo for charity.
Exactly. And she's not Sabrina has to throw out the first polo ball because that's the job someone has. That was so wild. I was, like, what? Is that a real thing?
Does anyone know? I've never seen polo outside of a movie, to be honest. Yeah. The only other movie that comes to mind is Monte Carlo? No.
It was gonna be more embarrassing than that, winning London, the Mary Kate and Ashley movie set in England. Oh, man. But, yeah. So they're at the polo match, and Vanessa does crash, which is pretty, you know, it's a pretty bold move, honestly. And she's also, like, wondering if Stan is worried that that she's gonna judge him, which I think is very clear that the answer is yes.
Right. As she should. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so when Vanessa shows up, Dan is immediately, like, distracted by Blair needing, you know, him to help with a scheme or whatever.
And so when they eventually confront each other, Vanessa says that perhaps people change, maybe it's okay that they're growing apart. And he says he's not changing. But she says, you're at a polo match in a $3,000 suit, and your name's in the program. And after I take a bus across the state line to apologize, you ditched me for Blair Waldorf and totally disappear. And so he just kinda, like, rants about how, like, his family is trying to keep it together through this massive transition, and so can she please give them a break with the rich people suck thing?

(07:43):
And she says, if you're going to be in this world, be yourself in this world because I actually like that guy, and I hope he, too, shows up at NYU. I mean, he just has, like, nicer things now, and, like, I totally understand why she's, like, oh, well, you don't need these things and you're changing. But also, like, I I can't remember him, like, actively doing things that are out of character. I guess it's just that, like, she feels like he doesn't value their friendship. Is that the confidence here?
Okay. I take it. Yeah. I feel like all of his actions in this is just like, he has a nice wallet. He takes the limo, but, like, which he does not need to be carrying around all those 100.
It's like that is No. Right? That's just you should never ever carry that much cash. I don't care how rich you are. That's just stupid.
Yeah. Like, deposit into the bank, Dan. Like, you must have a bank account. Like, come on. Another thing from season 3 that I wanted to just briefly mention.
Other things on the plotline where Eleanor, like, wants to sell to Conwell's department stores. And, like, Blair is, like, so unenthused with the idea because it's, like, not a high end, you know, fashion brand. And Eleanor replies that high fashion has fallen on hard times. And so I thought that was an interesting one, especially because I had forgotten that Blair ends up taking over the company, that she does eventually do that. But just, like, yeah, like, the way that these people view, like, literally, like, just, you know what I assume is supposed to be, like, a Macy's.
Mhmm. Right. So that was season 3. I thought for season 4, I think the main things to talk about really are the Juliet arc. So I don't know what yeah.
I was gonna say I definitely pulled some notes, but maybe you could, like, take us through, like, an overview of this arc. Because I know that I didn't watch all of it. I watched, like, the clips here and there. So okay. Juliet is first introduced through Nate.
She, like, meets him at, like, some rich, fancy person lunch place when he's on a date with, like, one of the girls from, like, Chuck's Little Black Book because Nate decided the best way to get over Serena was, like, sleep through the city, I guess. Anyway, they hit it off. They have good chemistry, admittedly, in my opinion. They hit it off. Her and Nate start dating pretty quickly, I feel like.
Serena comes back to, like, see them dating. She comes back to Paris, and she's, like, a little upset. Dan and Vanessa are also dating again, so it's like, oh, I, like, spent all summer putting off this love triangle. And now they both have moved on to other people. Of course, they haven't, but, like, you know.
Anyway, so that's how Juliet's kinda introduced. It's like this, like, wedge in the name Serena Romance. And then it's quickly revealed that Juliet somehow is the head of their prestigious I don't think Columbia actually has houses the way Princeton and Harvard does, but it's basically like an eating club kind of thing at Columbia that Juliet is somehow the head of. And she keeps Serena from joining. And that's where more tension between Juliet and Serena is born.
And then also the rumors spread that Serena has an STD, and then Nate chooses to like get tested publicly, which like humiliates Serena, but he's like, I have someone else to think about now, you know? And that's also like hard Juliet's doing. And Did Juliet like matriculate at Columbia in order to trap Serena and get revenge on her? Unclear. Unclear if she was already at Columbia.
Okay. I would have to assume she's already at Columbia. I I would hope. That would be I mean that would be really, really crazy planning. I would have to respect it, you know?
Yeah. Totally. That, you know, take a lot of effort. Oh, I also should note, Serena starts dating her college professor who's also, like, a billionaire who lives in, like, Blair's building. He's, like, doing, like, a guest lecture series, I guess.
And he turns out to be, like, Juliet's cousin. It's a very convoluted storyline. Yes. Anyway, so Juliet just keeps doing more and more things to, like, embarrass Serena. She, like, gets her, like, on academic probation.
Julia and Nate break up for a reason I can't remember. Because I know that reunite's, like, the love triangles between Nate and Serena and Dan, which is still happening throughout all this, Even though Serena is also like with the professor. Again, it's very convoluted and messy. Anyway, so like I mentioned earlier, Vanessa is like in this love triangle Serena and Dan briefly, and Dan chooses Serena, and that pisses off Vanessa. So she aligns herself with Juliet, and so does Jenny.
I guess for lingering anger at like the Nate Serena Jenny triangle from season 3, very unclear, I think, why Jenny gets involved with Juliet. Right. She does. Again, it's all very much like the poors are evil, and they're trying to ruin the lives of our good rich characters. Like, it's it's very problematic.
Anyway, so then the big culmination of all this is that Juliet and Jenny both pretend to be Serena at Chuck's, like, masquerade ball. Juliet has, like, drugged Serena, so she's not there. She's, like, passed out in, like, a Mount Tauro. And then, like, Jenny kisses Nate, I hope, because I think Juliet's the one who kisses Dan. Hope that would be really fucked up.
Yeah. Yeah. Unclear, but I assume that's what happened. They both pretend to be Serena and kiss Nate and Dan to, like, piss them off that, like, Serena can't make a choice and is playing with them. Basically, they're trying to turn everyone against Serena.
They must do something with Blair. I don't really remember what though. But they basically are trying to, like, turn everyone. Chuck and Blair are, like, they're not supposed to be dating each other because Chuck needs to be, like, you know, single and, like, desirable or whatever. And then they make out behind, like, a very large curtain, and then Julia, like, makes the curtain fall so everyone can see.
Yeah. And Blair thinks it's Serena. Yeah. Okay. So then yeah.
Serena, like, wakes up in this motel room, thinks she, like, did cocaine, I guess, calls for help, and, like, gets checked into, like, a rehab facility, the off staff center. And Dan initially is the only one that believes Serena that, like, she didn't do this. She, like, would not overdose on drugs. That's not Serena. Blair's like, you didn't know her when she was, like, before all this, before she, you know, came back from boarding school.

(08:04):
But then slowly And I guess Dan Buchanan, like, it really hasn't been that many years. No. The writing school rate. It's been, what, like, 3 years probably? Yeah.
Yeah. It's been for 3 years. So it's not crazy, I think, that Blair's, like, thinks that Serena, you know, overdosed on drugs. And then Jenny tells Blair the truth for another reason I don't fully remember. But she tells, yeah, Blair, like, yeah, we had teamed up with Juliet.
Me and Vanessa didn't know Juliet was gonna drug Serena though. She went too far. So then Blair knows the truth as well. So then that's what like starts off the Blair and Dan arc, and they team up together to like track down Juliet and find out like why did she do this? And they want to get revenge, or Blair especially, of course.
And then they, like, go to Connecticut where Serena went to boarding school, and they find out that, like, Juliette's older brother was a teacher at Serena's boarding school who they make it seem like he's, like, totally innocent. And, like he's innocent and that he didn't have sex with Serena, but like he is definitely engaging in an inappropriate relationship with the student. Like it's an anomaly. Definitely. He had like taken her off campus.
Yeah. He's like flirting with her. Yeah. He's giving her special attention. Like Like, he should not be in jail, but he's not Yeah.
He also was not innocent in all this. Agreed. Yeah. Probably. But anyway, people assume Serena is having an affair with his professor because it's Serena.
Poor thing. Lily uses that information to get Serena back into Constance because I guess her grades at boarding school are bad. So Lily was like, well, but she was, you know, having an affair with her professor. And then, I mean, Lily's really presented as the bad guy in a way that I don't know is necessarily fair. Like, Lily did not intend to, like, get him arrested at all.
She was just, like, trying to get Serena back into Constance. But, of course, when the school here is, like, oh, professor is leaving a student. They have him arrested. They Yeah. I feel bad.
That area is tight. That's kind of a gray area because I remember Lily, like I think it was, like, she hears people gossiping on breakfast that Serena slept with this teacher, and she assumes it's the truth. So, like, hey, maybe talk to your daughter first about it. Sure. But, like, sure.
Okay. She doesn't trust that Serena will tell her the truth. I get it. I I can't remember the specifics. I don't know that she reported it to the police, but, like, she also must have known once she, like, made the claim.
She claims that she didn't from what I remember, and then it was, like, 2 once it once it once like the police came knocking to, like, ask questions, she was like, it was too late to do anything about it. And she, like, illegally signed this affidavit in Serena's name stating that Serena had an affair with her professor, which again is bad. But, like, I don't know. If I found out my 15 year old daughter or I thought my 15 year old daughter was having, you know, an affair with her professor, I don't think I would be very kind to the professor, you know? Like No.
True. Like, she legitimately thought they had an affair. So, like, I can understand her not being like, it's no sweat off her back that this guy's going to jail. Because she did think he was an adult man who slept with her underage daughter. Right.
Oh. And then is this why she's on house arrest? Yes. Then she gets placed on house arrest. I don't know.
She turns herself in after Serena like starts digging to like try to prove that Lily illegally signed the affidavit in Serena's name. And then Lily ends up turning herself in. And that's why she goes on house arrest. I just remember the episode where I guess she's like freed from house arrest or something. She's reading Crime and Punishment.
I agree. That's a great bit. The coverage says crime and punishment in the biggest letters possible. I love details like that. Yeah.
Press guys. So Julia basically, like, concocted this whole plan to, like, get revenge on Serena because she thought Serena purposely lied about having sex with her brother, who again, not totally innocent in all this, had definitely an inappropriate relationship with Serena. He pretty much very quickly starts dating Serena for real after he gets out of prison. Yeah. It's it's not good.
It's very up in Gossip Girl. Like, the one character who faces consequences for sexual assault is then, like, innocent of it. Yeah. Like, it's very explicit. Yes.
But I guess it is true of, like, class maybe? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it definitely is an interesting one where it's like, Serena didn't even know that all of this had happened Right. In order for her to get to go to Constance.
And yet, like, this, like, you know, working class person's life was completely ruined, and this family's life was ruined. So So it's definitely, like, an interesting plot line. But again, it is so convoluted that I have a hard time being, like, oh, yeah. They really, like, you know, hit that message home. Right.
Right. Well, and especially given that, like, Lily, again, like, she overhears some gossiping, assumes the worst, and then kind of just runs with it. It's like, okay. Of course, the rich lady can assume what she wants and ruin whoever's lives and, like, face no consequences or even, like, feel bad about it. Like, because she continues to defend herself.
I feel like when it's brought up and it's like you can you can, like, feel bad for the consequences even if it wasn't what you originally thought. I just felt like she's like, absolutely not. Like, I was doing it to, like, to protect the family. I would do it again. And it's, like, there's no real reflection there or I feel like agency of, oh, I did do something wrong even if it wasn't what I intended.

(08:25):
Yeah. But, like, it would have been nice to see a little bit more emotion there. But, like, whatever. Lily is not really a character even though I love her very much. I love Lily.
I'm a character even though I love her very much. I love Lily. I'm a Lily apologist. But, yes, they kind of just write Lily for whatever Lily needs to be in the moment. Right.
Yeah. So the whole thing is just very, yeah, not well thought out is what I would say about the Juliet arc. It's just messy, convoluted. It's politics all over the place, and it's set up in a way that, like, I definitely think you're supposed to see Juliet as the villain. Definitely.
And also her motivation is a little unclear to me in the sense that why did she wait 3 years to do this? So true. Maybe she really did get into college. Yeah. I told you.
Her husband the long game the whole time. I'm like, what if Serena had gone to Brown? Would she have transferred to Brown? Yeah. Oh my god.
I did think one line that was interesting when they're, like, kind of all, like, figuring out what has happened is that Chuck says, look, everyone here has crossed the line at some point to protect someone they care about. And then sometimes there's collateral damage, and then Rufus says, it's not so easy when you're the collateral damage. But it's interesting, like, Chuck identifies with Lily, like, you know, doing something crazy. Rufus identifies as being the collateral damage. Yeah.
Very revealing moment, I think, for both characters. Yeah. Definitely. And then it's also just interesting to obviously see Lily on house arrest and specifically, like, the fact that she doesn't have to go to prison, which, like, not obviously I don't think anyone should go to prison. I am an abolitionist.
But it feels like a very, like, rich person gets arrested plot lines through and through. Right. It's like, oh, that sucks. You have to stay in your, like, very large penthouse with all of its many amenities and doorman and service people who bring you whatever you want. Like, wow, that sucks.
You know, can I go in house for us? Right. Seriously. So, like, I think the next, like, it's kind of the end of season 4 into season 5, the 2 big plot lines that I figured we'd talk about. And let me know if I missed anything because I wasn't able to watch most of season 5.
But, like, are the Ivy arc and then the fact that Dan's book about all the people he met on the Upper East Side is published by Vanessa, like, kinda does it for him. Right? Yeah. I don't understand how she legally could have done that. But, yes, she somehow, like, gets her hands on Dan's manuscript and, like, gets it published.
I guess if she submits it to an agent or an editor, like Yeah. But then, like But definitely there should be, like, rounds of edits, etcetera. There should have been rounds of edits. There should have been, like like, I could see her just sending it off to an agent or an editor and then being, like, oh, this is great. Let me talk.
But, like, they would have wanted to have met the author. Right. Like, they wouldn't have, like, put it into print without, like yeah. It's very strange. Very interesting.
I mean, just police just for, like, dramatic tension and conflict. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also an interesting conversation that Vanessa and Dan have when they're just talking about it before Vanessa does any of that, where he's like, he can't publish this book because then I would be an outsider forever.
And she's like, it doesn't matter, like, what people think of you. And he reminds her that these people are now, like, my friends and family. But she's like, you should man up and publish it, which she obviously then goes ahead and does. But she obviously then goes ahead and does. But I do think it's, you know, again, it brings us back to that, like, you know, Dan is so enmeshed in this world now.
Is he even still I mean, like, he is an outsider, but, like, is he still an outsider? I don't know. It's just like it's up for debate at this point in the show. Yeah. It's definitely, like because we talked about, like, the old money versus new money dichotomy of, like Yeah.
And it's not exactly the same thing, but I do think it's similar of, like, yes, he technically is in with so many people in that world, but he's never gonna be on their level no matter who he is. Right. I mean, I know I definitely didn't give you guys any season 6 episodes because, like, Fox season 6 is bad. Season 6 is bad. I watched, like, the last 3 episodes.
Yeah. Because But, like, I do think that's something that comes up a little bit of Dan feeling like, yeah, like, yes, I dated Serena, and I dated Blair, and Nate's, like, my best friend. But, like, they will never see me as one of them. Yeah. And then he ends up buying an apartment in Serena's apartment building.
Right. Which is just so funny that, like, a, Shealy is she lives in the penthouse, so he is definitely underneath her. And also that he made all of that money by writing about all of those people. And also, the team is turning them into slightly crueler caricatures of, you know it definitely seems like, oh, he took inspiration from these people and then, like, turned them into slightly different characters or, like, took something interesting to its logical conclusion. Like, I feel like the descriptions we read of the characters are not exactly the characters in the show.
No. Nate is, like, fully a composite character with, like Yes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I forgot what to do. Meta commentary on, like, how much of a character they had been downgraded to at that point. I know. But I just feel like he did not set it up very well at all of, like he expected everyone to be really happy for him. He didn't preface it with, like, oh, you know, these characters that are based on you, like, are not always painted in the nicest light, but, like, it's not supposed to be you.
This is not what I think about you. These are different characters in different situations. And, you know, it's just like he was so upset when no one reacted the way he wanted them to and it's like, okay, well, that's all on you. He could have set the expectations. I mean, to be fair to Dan, this book was published without his permission.

(08:46):
So, like, I can understand, you know, obviously, he probably would have made a lot of edits if he had given been given the chance. You know what I feel? It was like he probably like he wouldn't have made big probably sweeping edits. Like, I'm sure he would have tightened stuff up, but I mean, it seems like he almost wrote this as like a diary in real time. Like, there's a lot of commentary on how, like, Blair becomes the star of the book because Dan fell in love with Blair while he's writing it.
Like, I think it almost seems like this was, like, his way of processing what he went through by dating Serena and entering into this world. Like, it doesn't seem like something he ever intended to be seen publicly Right. By other eyes. But then I think, like, once it is being released, like, however surprised he was that it was being published, like, there's definitely some lead time there. So I feel like, you know, at his book party, he's like, oh, wow.
Like, all my friends are gonna come and we're gonna take a photo and they're gonna be so happy to, like, see themselves. I feel like it's not Yeah. I'm gonna chalk that up either to inconsistent writing or just, like, naivete. Yeah. Yeah.
Like, yeah. I didn't want this to be published this way, but hopefully they'll support me and Right. We'll know. Like, you wrote a lot of really mean stuff. Especially about Serena.
Like, he Yeah. He was really mean about Serena. He was really mean about Serena. In a way that I don't know that tracks Mhmm. Given everything that's happened between them up until this point.
But they again, I think they wanted this conflict between Dan and Serena this season. Yeah. Which I I feel like Serena is a very interesting character in theory, but I also think that, like, they were kind of looking for storylines for her towards the end of the show. Right. Especially in season 5 when, like, she becomes Gossip Girl.
And it's like, the Serena of the books, and I feel like even the beginning of the series would just not be that wouldn't cross her mind. Like, she's not gonna be so emotionally invested as to spend so much time on Gossip Girl. Like, she's outliving her life, and she is the subject of all of these posts because she's, like, so fun and interesting and, like, you know, has so many friends. And she wouldn't stoop so low, I feel, as to, like, be running this gossip website. And, like Right.
So I to me, that's just a like, necessity of the writing. And I'm sure, like, you could make an argument for it of, like, everything she's gone through and, like, you know, at the hands of Gossip Girl and not. And, like, okay, does she want some ownership over her life or whatever? Like, I think I could spin it, but to me, it's just kind of a lazy writing. I agree.
Yeah. And especially with the spectator at the same time, it's like, how much meta commentary do we need to get out? Book. Like, it's so much It's so true. It's like a little ridiculous.
Like, any one of those story lines, like, wouldn't be my favorite, but all of them combined is, like, a little too much. Yeah. Totally. So, yes, I was unable to watch the entire Ivy arc, but are there any, like, highlights of that arc that we think are worth mentioning? Just give a little rundown of Ivy who admittedly called me a class traitor.
I don't really care for Ivy. I don't know why. Maybe if I rewatch it, I feel differently. But in definitely real time, it felt very much like we wrote off Jenny and Vanessa, but we need a, like, horror character to bounce off of. Like, she feels very much like the cousin Oliver of Gossip Girl, in my opinion, which is like a Brady Bunch reference with people at home.
I've never seen the Brady Bunch. I'm people at home. I have not. I have, but I didn't get the reference. I saw the famously rodent.
Like, when the kids started getting older, they're like, we need a cute kid again. So, like, rodent as an Oliver character in, like, the final season of the Brady Bunch to be Got it. Okay. Was very widely hated. Got it.
Anyway, so with yeah. With Ivy, it felt like she was just, like, replacement Vanessa slash Jenny. Right. So she's initially introduced as Serena's cousin, Charlie. This is also another very convoluted storyline.
It's so convoluted. I didn't watch her pictures. Yeah. She's introduced as, like, Serena's cousin, Charlie, who she hasn't seen since they were, like, very, very little. And then it's like she, like, starts up this, like, flirtation with Dan a little bit, and then it's revealed that she's, like, off her meds, and she's not, like, all there in terms of, like, you know, psychologically or whatever.
And then it's all revealed at the end to be, like, a giant ruse. And she's actually, like, an actress that Lily's sister hired to pretend to be her daughter to, like, I guess get access to the family money or something to get access to the Carla's trust fund. Yeah. And you're like, okay, sure. And then in season 5, Serena runs into her in Los Angeles.
Ivy has since, like, moved to Los Angeles to, like, try to become an actress. She has, like, you know, a normal boyfriend. They're, like, working in a restaurant or whatever, trying to, you know, pay their bills while they follow their dreams. But Serena runs into her, and she has to pretend to be her cousin Charlie again. And then Serena brings her back to New York.
She, like, gets you know, she receives the world. She and Nate have a flirtation. Like, it's all very it's a lot. And then Serena for a while. She's back for a while just pretending to be cousin Charlie, and then she somehow ends up, like, with Cece, who's Serena's grandmother, who's dying of cancer.
And she, like, yeah, becomes very close to her. And somehow, off camera, Cece finds out the truth that, like, this is not her granddaughter. This is, like, a random actress that Carole hired. But Cece's, like, fine with it. And when Cece dies, she, like, leaves all the money to Charlie, or to Ivy, actually I should say, to Ivy.
To Ivy, yeah. Because then the real Charlie at this point has since shown up and starts dating Nate. She is living in New York and working as a cater. She's also trying to be an actress, ironically enough. She's living in New York as, like, working as a cater waiter and she has no money and her and Nate start up this relationship.
And yeah. So, like, through all of this, through Cece dying, it's revealed that Ivy is not the real Charlie, but also that Ivy, the real Ivy has inherited all the money. It's, again, very convoluted. So then it's almost like a talented Mr. Ripley thing, but like in a very badly aped way.

(09:07):
Yeah. So then Ivy gets all the money. It puts her into conflict with Lily. Lily, then becomes very focused Yeah. That's why they're in the law.
Lily becomes very focused on trying to take Ivy down. Oh, it's also revealed through all this that Charlie's biological father is William. So she's not just their cousin, she's Serena and Eric's half sister. Jesus Christ. Again, why Lily ends up with William at the end, I will never understand.
He fucked your sister and got her pregnant, but whatever. And I feel like no one's really that upset about that. No. Lily's more upset at, like, the sister than her husband, but, like, whatever. Misogyny.
Yeah. Exactly. I think Lily does get the money back somehow through some technicality, and then, yeah, Lily and Rufus break up because Rufus dared to think that Lily wanted to stay married to him, so she chooses Bart over there. There's a whole thing where, like, they, I guess, get the money away from Ivy somehow, but then she has no money and is broke. Right.
And he just feels bad, so he's, like, paying for a hotel for her or something, and then Lily finds out and he feels betrayed. Right. That too. Yes. And then yeah.
So then in season 6, Rufus and Leigh are now broken up. Rufus and Ivy have formed this connection. Do they get together? They get together. It's all it's really gross.
God. You thought this girl was your niece for, like, a good 2 years, but whatever. So true. Yeah. They form a romantic pairing for a while.
It's gross. But then it's also revealed that Ivy and William are have having an affair, but William was just using her to, like, get to Lily. It's all it's so messy. It's so wild. It's a lot.
And then by the end of the series, Ivy has made it as a famous actress. So, yeah. I don't know. I don't know what to make of that. I don't really know what to make of it either.
I don't know what their initial intention was. I don't know where they planned on going with the Ivy storyline. But yeah. I do think because I all I remembered when I started watching the arc was that Ivy was paid to pretend to be Serena's cousin, but, like, I didn't remember anything else surrounding that. And then it just kept getting wilder and wilder.
I was like, okay. Yeah. I mean, I do wonder, like, how much what's Charlie's mom's name? Carol. Carol.
Carol was paying Ivy. Like, was she making a commission based on however much money she got out of the trust fund? Because I think, like, Carol clearly doesn't have that much money because she's trying to gain access to Charlie's trust. Yeah. They're like, cut off from the family.
Okay. Yeah. And do we know why that happened? Unclear. There's this whole backdoor pilot that never got picked up about Lily and Carol.
Oh, right. Yeah. Prom episode and Carol's Krysten Ritter. It's fun. Who plays Lily?
Britney Snow, which I don't think is great casting, but, like, whatever. No. But, anyway, so I think Yeah. I totally would have watched that show in, like, middle school. Oh, yeah.
I don't know why they didn't pick it up. They should've. But, anyway, so Carol, I guess, was already cut off at that point and, like, living in Los Angeles and, like, living, like, this eighties rocker life. So I think she just was, like, a problem child who, like, didn't really respect the upper east side lifestyle. Right.
Right. Yeah. I don't know. Right. It's interesting that they both got into music somehow.
And then Lily was actually when she was threatened to be cut off, she was, like, actually, this isn't the life I want. Yeah. It's definitely an interesting parallel. But then they bring it back to, like, Carol wants the wealth though. You know?
It's all messy. Which, like, if I had that much money that I didn't have access to, like, I mean, sure. I get it. Like, I would not hire someone to play my daughter. Mhmm.
Get it? But, like, I get it. Yeah. Totally. And the only things I had left for us to talk about was just a little section where I thought we might talk a little bit about, like, the Dorota of it all.
Like, oh, girl theater, dinner plus service workers. Yeah. I also have, like, a little thing I where from the second episode, there's, like, Chuck and Nate, like, wake up, and it's clear that either they both or one of them, like, had sex with 2 hotel workers? And then Nate is, like, asking them to do things for him when they're, like, also disheveled and pulling their clothes back on? I was just, like, this is wild.

(09:28):
It's just implied that, like, Chuck had a threesome with both of them, but it's also implied that Chuck had a threesome with both of them while Nate was asleep on the couch. It was very weird. Honestly, I feel like Nate would be fine with that. He would be like, I don't want to get involved. Right.
No. I don't think Nate had sex with them, but it's just weird that, like, you were in the room. It's No. I just meant, like, I feel like he's used to Chuck's antics. That's just funny.
Yeah. Fair enough. Well, okay. Definitely weird, but, you know I mean, Chuck's relationship with surface workers and sex workers is, you know, probably its own thing to unpack. But that was one of them.
And then I feel like it they are 9 episodes in. There's an episode where I feel like Dorota starts to become a full character. Mhmm. And, you know, obviously, Jeroda is the maid in the balled up apartment who essentially, like, you know, spends more time with Blair and gives her more advice than her mom typically does. She's like a weird combination of maid and nanny.
Exactly. Yeah. Do you have her do such weird, like, cross the line things for her over the years, you know? When Blair's sent him to clean up Central Park before school, Dorota does the cleaning for her while she supervises. That was one that I pointed out.
There's also one point in the second season where Chuck and Blair kinda, like, put Dorota in the middle of their game to pick each other's snowflake ball date. I'm, like, leave this woman alone. Yeah. There's a really awful line in there where she's, like Dorota's, like, I don't wanna shine mister Bass' shoes. And Blair's like, you're lucky if it's just the shoes.
Really gross implication there of Yeah. Chuck will force the maid to give him a blow job, I guess. Yikes. Yeah. And although Chuck is a minor there, question mark.
Yeah. That's the other thing with the hotel workers. It's like, yes. Chuck dad owns a hotel they work at, but also he's 16. Yep.
It's very questionable consent levels on all of it. Also, it's implied at one point that, like, Chuck lost his virginity to his au pair. It's all fucked up. Mhmm. When he was, like, very young.
Right? Yeah. Yes. There's 2 different conflicting stories. One that he lost his virginity to Georgina in 6th grade Oh, right.
Which again That's funny. Gross. You're, what, 11, 12? Teen is I was a child. Yeah.
But also, there's another time where he says he lost it to his apera at 12. Again. Either way, bad. Either way, bad. I mean, I guess Virginia's less bad because she was also 12, but still gross.
Right. Yeah. And then, like, Drora gets to have, like, a love story, like, which is kinda cute with Sonya who is, I I guess, what, like, a concierge in the building or the He's the doorman. Orman. Vander Woodson's building.
The Vander Wood building. Yes. And then he's got multiple kids, which I wonder do you know if the actress was actually pregnant? And that was, like, a She was the second time. Okay.
I think the first time, it was just, like, a dramatic storyline that they were like, it was an excuse to never get married or, like Yeah. Yeah. Because initially it's presented as, like, Blair thinks Eleanor's pregnant, and she doesn't wanna, like, I guess, share the family wealth with another sibling. Yeah. Funny.
Yeah. Yeah. Do you feel like as the seasons go on, like, Geroida kind of like you see her, like, genuinely having some fun with Blair, and, like, obviously, this is still, like, an employee employer relationship, but it just, like I mean, it's though, because it's also it is like a mother daughter relationship in a lot of ways as well. Yes. Right.
Absolutely. And I thought that one really interesting moment was in 218. I think that's the episode where Sonya and Dorota get married, and Cyrus announces to Eleanor that he bought them an apartment in Queens. And Eleanor is, like, not pleased, and it's like, she's just a maid. And Cyrus, like, replies that Dorota practically raised Blair.
Later, basically, after they have their vows and everything, Eleanor whispers to Sarah that she was wrong and that Jeroda is family, which is just like I don't know. It's just a lot to unpack. I think I don't know. Yeah. It's a lot like I don't think it's crazy that, like, rich people maybe would see, like, the servant who's in their home every single day as almost like a member of the family.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But yeah. At the same time, like, she's not family. When it comes to power, she's there because you're paying her salary.
She's only there because you're paying her salary. You were aghast initially at the idea of, like, buying this person who's been in your life for, you know, probably since Blair was born an apartment as a wedding present, like, when you clearly have the money for it. Like Right. I don't know. I think it's all realistic.
It's just very telling of, like, who Eleanor really is. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

(09:49):
Definitely. I wonder if she had, like, a similar nanny house keeper of her own. Like, is she know her when she is saying, oh, how could you do that? Or is she maybe if she didn't have that, she's a little bit jealous. I mean, I think there's definitely an implication that she's, like, mad at the implication that Cyrus made that, like, Dorota raised Blair and not her.
Like, there's definitely a jealousy element present in that storyline from what I remember. Yeah. But Which, of course, that makes sense. Yeah. It's interesting.
Because, like, you obviously we've talked before about, like, I'm not Gilmore Girls episode, like, you know, in a very different way, like, the revolving door of, like, maids at Emily Gilmore's house and the way that she was a bad employer. But this one is, like, a lot more complicated than that. Because I think there are moments where, like, if you consider Blair the employer, which is, like, maybe questionable whoever she is because her parents are obviously the one actually paying Rhoda. But, like, there are some moments where she does she asks Rhoda to do things that are, like, super not okay. And there's other moments where they do have really genuine, like, moments together that are, like, sweet.
So it's it's very complicated, I feel like. Right. Which also feels very true to Yeah. How that would be. Yeah.
Very toxic, very real though, I think. And it's weird in that she's the maiden, not the nanny. But, like, that's where Gossip Girl kinda takes me out of the reality of it. Yeah. Right.
Like, she does so many different things around the house that, like, you know, I don't know what to do with the whole world. Hire multiple people. Or they didn't want it to be multiple characters. Like Right. Right.
Exactly. And there is I remember, I think it's like when they first get to NYU and Blair is like, I'm gonna throw the best sushi party ever so that people think I'm cool. She makes Dorota come and sit up and Dorota is still in her maid uniform, which is like Yeah. Like Dorota never gets to take that uniform off. I feel like she wears real clothes like once and I did not write down when that was.
She Was it her wedding? I know. She wears normal clothes at her wedding and Blair visits her after she gives birth to her second child and she's like in her apartment and in like a robe. I honestly can't remember if she was ever in normal clothes, like, while she's at the Waldorf apartment though. Right.
Right. I like, I think it's always outside. But even outside, like, if she's with Blair, she's in the uniform, I feel like. Right. Totally.
She's wild. Yeah. She gets to not wear it at Blair's wedding, actually. Okay. Good.
Can you imagine? Yeah. Oh my god. So, yeah. That brings us to season 6.
I don't know if we have any particular plot lines that anyone wants to talk about beyond just getting into our Dan is Gossip Girl question mark final Yeah. Final conversation. But season 6 is a shortened season. They only got about 10 episodes, I think. And it was really like, okay, finish this shit up, guys.
Like, I didn't have a chance to rewatch it, but I'm hearing it's not a fan favorite season. No. It feels very much like fan fiction, in my opinion. A badly written, like, chair fan fiction. Like, you know, they clearly, they knew they wanted Chuck and Blair and Dancer into the end games.
But, like, from where they left off, it just they, like, they weren't really well set up for that. So they had to, like, maneuver ways to, like but they also, like, had to, like, make up another reason for Chuck and Blair to be apart until the very end of season 6. Like, it's all very, like, sloppy and, like, a lot of each of of, like, stuff that happened in previous seasons as well, especially with Dan and Serena. Like Yeah. I feel like I was just so over them pretty quickly and, like, I understand why they're an appealing couple at first, but, like, when there were just so many reasons why they weren't getting back together and why they didn't work, it's like, okay.
Well, why am I supposed to be happy that you guys are getting married? It just felt very, like, great. You gotta pair people up. Like, you know, no one's gonna be happy unless Oh. And Nate also dates a high schooler who is the daughter of the man Serena is dating.
It's very funny. Why? Who also, by the way, slept with Lily. Very gross. Very unnecessary, in my opinion.
I don't know why they felt they had to do that. Sounds very unnecessary. I would like Nate to date one age appropriate person. It's actually what you're asking. Either direction.
Yeah. Oh, my god. My favorite is definitely of his, like, lovers though is one main chin. Amek is on the show for a bit of his, you know That's actually something maybe we should have talked about. It's like when the family loses their money and he basically becomes a prostitute.
Yep. Yeah. But it's also presented in, like, a very interesting weird way, like, everything on Gossip Girl. It's, like, sexy and forbidden. Right?
Even though, like, he's fully being prostituted by this older woman who, like, is old enough to be his mother. Yeah. A 100%. But yeah. So the show I mean, I haven't, again, watched the reveal that Dan is Gossip Girl for a while.
And can you bring me through what the actual reveal is? Like, how do we find out? I don't even know how to describe it. It's, like, very random and weird. It's, like, they, like, do this funny flashback to, like, I guess, freshman year where Dan and Serena first met at a party, and, like, they made Penn Badgley shave his head, and Ed Westwick is in, like, this horrible wig so they can, like, have the same hair that they had in season 1.

(10:10):
It's all very silly. Basically, I guess the gist of it is that, like, Dan met Serena at this party, fell in love with her, but he knew he would never fit into her world. And then I guess at, like, some field trip, she was, like, in a white dress and got wet, and everyone was talking about it. So he was like, that was my way in was if I, like, created this blog about you. It's very weird and she's totally into it.
She's like, oh my god, it was a love letter to me. And you're like, what? Yeah. None of it makes any sense with anything that has come before in the show. Like, for okay, for starters, there are multiple instances in the show where Dan is completely alone and sees the Gossip Girl blast and reacts to it, which like, why would you be reacting to it if you're totally alone and you wrote this blast?
You know? A lot of times he finds out important information from a Gossip Girl blast, which like, if you'd known about the whole time, it doesn't make any sense. He also, like, was about Jenny losing her virginity. Which, allegedly, Jenny was okay with, according to Dan and that when Rufus confronts him about that in the finale, Jenny knew what was going on with it. I remember Rufus bringing it up.
And then I was, like, why is he so involved in this? Like, he should not recall that or know anything about Jenny Whiskey or Virginity at all. Yeah. It's all very gross. And then also, like, I just don't think it tracks, like again, Dan we talked about it.
Dan has the whole storyline with Chuck in season 2 where he's, like, writing about Chuck. He, like, finds out I guess, like, Bart set a fire to a building. I don't know. There's some, like, bad information Dan finds out through all this about Bart, and he chooses not to share it to protect the Vanderwoodsens because Lily's still married to Bart at this point. So it just doesn't track for me that, like, the Dan who would do that in season 2 was actually Gossip Girl the whole time.
Like, if Dan was Gossip Girl, wouldn't he, like, wanna reveal this, like, sorted information about Bart he found? You know? And then also, like, the whole thing was inside. Is, like, Dan writing about these people. So, like, Dan already did that.
Like, why did he write inside if he was already writing about the Mangosco? Like, he's just writing 2 different versions. Like, it just none of it tracks for me. It's all all over the place. And, like, I know that I did not need it.
No. You don't need to know that girl at all. I think it's like the season 2 finale Yeah. Where it's like, oh, we're all Gossip Girl because we all send in the tips. Which is true in my opinion.
That's fine. Who cares who pressed publish if your best friend, like, ratted you out on this thing? Like, that to me is more important. Right. And, like, more about what the show's about.
It's like your friends are sharing this information about you. Like, why does it matter who pays for the website domain? You know? And I mean, there is definitely an element of, like, you are choosing to Gossip Girl does not publish all of the tips. Right.
So, like, there definitely is the intent in, like, choosing things that will, like, make your family and friends look bad. I just don't understand how it could be one person if the more I think about it. Like, there's a whole spotted app that, like, shows where the characters are in, like, real time that they can check to stalk each other, I guess. Like, have one person be behind all of this. Maybe he just, like, GPS tracked their phones before that was on everyone's phones.
Yeah. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Clearly, I think they honestly just, like, didn't know what they were doing at this point. Like, I think it was definitely initially Eric.
Like, it was Eric in the early seasons, and then, like, the New York Post wrote about how it was Eric. So, like, well, then we can't make it Eric. And then Josh Joshua Safran, who was the showrunner for, like, a couple seasons and left at the end of season 5, he's gone on record saying that like when he was in charge of the show it was Nate, which again doesn't make sense for very different reasons. Well, because Nate never wrote in anything to Gossip Girl. Well, that's why he was like, that's why we thought it could be Nate because Nate never sent in a tip and you're like, okay.
But also Nate was running, like, the rival to Gossip Girl for all season 5. So why would he be doing that if he was also Gossip Girl? Again, none of it tracks. Yeah. It's all over the place.
Yeah. No. It definitely very transparently reads as we did not have a plan. Right. And we're one.
Because nobody asked you for this for people. That's true. The show really doesn't do that much of the, like, who is Gossip Girl. Not as if I had to like, on a different show, there definitely could have been, like, teasing or, like, people on Reddit trying to figure out who it is. But I don't think that was ever a priority.
Like, no no one was wondering. They were like, oh, Kristen Bell is narrating. Sure. Like, it's just Right. Issues and Literally, they could have had Kristen Bell be herself.
And me, like, I asked gospel the whole time. I would have been like I would have been like, that's fun. Hey, that's Kristen Bell. Right. Like, it doesn't matter.
Who cares? Yeah. So I think it's fair to say that from what I understand, most people in the Gossip Girl fandom do not take Dan as Gossip Girl to be like canon. Right? Yeah.
In my opinion, it's not. It just doesn't make any sense. Is there anyone who was like, actually, I've worked it back and this does work? No. Not in terms of that, but there are people who will take the reveal at face value and be like, I guess Dan was Gossip Girl.
And you see a lot of people be like, like, sorry not to get into the ship wars at all, but you see people on the chair side sometimes be like, well, Dan was a stalker. Dan was Gossip Girl. Oh. As like as like, that's why Dan is worse than Chuck. And I'm like, alright.

(10:31):
Even if you take the reveal of Dan being Gossip Girl is true, I just don't think being Gossip Girl is worse than, like, raping people, but that's just me. I mean, I don't think that, like, that necessarily makes Dan a stalker or Gossip Girl a stalker because, like, she's receiving all of this information from other people. That's true. If anything, she would ever wanna send the stalkers for her. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. It is a very interesting thing in this day and age where, like, you know, like, is basically, like, Gossip Girl, you know? Yeah. Or, like, celebrity sightings.
And and I almost, like, foresaw what life was gonna be like once we all had smartphones where everyone is able to be, like, snap a picture, like, send it off. This happened in, like, in a way like, yes, people could do that in 2007, but they can do it in a way now that's even more, like, intense. Definitely. And it's actually funny because I feel like whenever I look at DeuxMoi, it's, like, so many stories that I'm, like, just tapping through them, but I'm, like, I'm not, like, taking in any of this information because there's just too much going on. So it's just funny to think of Gossip Girl like that of, like, okay, like, there are tips, but, like, who's really reading them when I feel like they frame it as, like, everyone gets text alerts from Gossip Girl and they need to know what's happening to who.
But it's like, oh, is she only reporting on these, like, 6 main characters? Right. Like, she follows them to college? Right. Yeah.
That too. Yeah. That was funny when they were post college when they're all running their businesses without their degrees. Like Yeah. Oh my god.
It's so funny how they just, like, slowly write them out of college without acknowledging it. Boring. Yeah. Which honestly, I'm obsessed with. Like, I really respect that.
You gotta just if something's not working Oh, Riverdale did it. Like, sorry to bring it Riverdale for, like, the 3rd time on this podcast. But, like, Riverdale, I thought it was really smart that they just, like, fast forwarded. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
I wonder how to do that too. Yeah. The time jump can really work in those situations, I feel. Unless you're really committed to, like, doing a good college show. But sometimes, just like yeah.
Like, just do a college show. You know, like, a sci fi is The College Girls, All American Homecoming. Like Right. If I wanna see college life, just give it to me, like, starting out that way rather than, like, shoehorning everyone into the same college. Like Yeah.
Or like a Felicity. Yes. Yes. Yes. Another show that we've talked about on this podcast.
Baby Carrie Russell. And all that. Well, this was an amazing episode. I think we've talked our asses off about gothic girl at this point. But does anyone have any, like, final conclusions on this?
I think that, you know, it's, of course, an iconic teen drama and always will be. It had maybe mixed things to say about class, but I think that we pulled out some some interesting gems along the way. Yeah. And I definitely think, like, also the fact that they shoot in New York and did so much on location, I feel like that really makes it an iconic New York show. And now that I live so many real references to things that like I mean, I think at this point, I'll talk to myself.
Like, I think it's pretty clear that all 3 of us have, like, lived in New York at some point in our lives. If not, you 2 are currently there probably. Yeah. We are. Yeah.
Like, it's so real in terms of how much real stuff they bring into that universe. Like, I remember Dan and Blair like, I didn't even realize this. Dan and Blair, like, meet up with this, like, couple at one point when they're a couple. Like, he's from the upper east side. She's from Queens or whatever.
They were, like, real people who were playing themselves who were, like, you know, New York society people at the time of that episode. Like, they brought in all sorts of stuff like that. Like, you know, very infamously, Jared and Ivanka guest starred on the show. Like, they brought in all sorts of real stuff that really made it feel like they were living in the real world. Mhmm.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like, that makes it very much a New York show and, like, adds a lot of texture to it in the way that, like, if they were shooting in LA and had, like, the How I Met Your Mother, like, Black Plot, whatever, like, New York set. It just would not hit the same. I totally agree.
Well, y'all should all go rewatch some of the episodes we talked about today. Thank you both so much for coming on and sharing all your opinions and knowledge of me. I think this was a really awesome way to end the season. Yeah. It was so fun.
And thank you, as for all of your Gossip Girl expertise because I do not have that. All that time thinking about Gossip Girl nonstop is clearly paid off Question asked. It has. Absolutely. I mean, you know what?
It brought you to this moment. So It brought me right here. And I'm very glad to be here. I was very flattered when you asked me to be on the podcast. It was so fun.
Thanks for listening to leftist teen drama. Follow us on social media for updates. Links to our Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr, and TikTok are in the show notes along with links to suggested additional reading on the topics discussed. And don't forget to read us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Solidarity forever, free Palestine, and abolish the PIC.
Finining off, Maria.

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