June 18, 2025 • 45 mins
What if the secret to leadership success isn't finding perfect balance, but mastering the art of the pendulum swing? Jennifer Brown, former US Foreign Service Officer turned leadership coach, reveals why traditional work-life balance is a myth that keeps high-achieving leaders trapped in cycles of burnout and depletion.
Drawing from her powerful personal story of physical breakdown after years of putting achievement before well-being, Jennifer shares the exact moment she realized her leadership approach wasn't sustainable. "I had wonderful boss who said to me: 'you have to put your own oxygen mask on first,'" she recalls. "It was like this gut punch—I'm not putting my oxygen mask on first, and how can I pour into my family, my son, my team at work when I'm so depleted?"
This candid conversation explores the revolutionary concept of being the "CEO of your life" by intentionally directing your energy pendulum between priorities rather than attempting impossible balance. You'll discover practical techniques to interrupt negative thought patterns in seconds (without leaving your desk), how to identify your purpose through three revealing questions, and why defining yourself through achievement creates an unsustainable identity that eventually collapses.
Jennifer's faith-centered approach offers a refreshing perspective on leadership development, emphasizing grace for yourself and others while building mental fitness practices that fit into your existing routines. For leaders feeling lost, overwhelmed, or wondering "is this all there is?", this episode provides both comfort and actionable strategies to reclaim your energy and purpose.
The ripple effect of your leadership transformation affects everyone around you—are you ready to put your oxygen mask on first and discover what's possible when you lead from a place of wholeness rather than depletion?
Connect with Jen:
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Are you a woman over 40 who is on the verge of a mental or physical breakdown? Are you ready to invite peace, joy, and excitement into your life again? Download 5 Tips to Feel Joy Again in Under 20-Mintues AND Join the Reignite Your Flame Group on Facebook where women, just like you, come together to support, encourage, and connect.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Friends, I am so excited to invite my good friend
, jen Brown, to the podcasttoday.
Jen is a life and leadershipcoach who partners with clients
at the holy crap, what now?
Crossroads.
Whether leaders are steppinginto first time or higher
leadership roles, they'recraving reinvention or they're
(00:27):
stuck in the fog of burnout orself-doubt.
She empowers them to find theirpurpose, develop tangible
action steps and create theenergy and ripple effect to
inspire others.
She brings experience workingin high pressure environments,
drawing on her two decade careeras a foreign service officer
(00:47):
with the US Department of State,where she also served as a
leadership coach.
She's an associate certifiedcoach through the ICF and a
certified professional co-activecoach from the Co-Active
Training Institute.
Welcome to the Lemon BalmCoaching Podcast, your cozy
corner of the world where we'llsip on life's lessons and
(01:09):
squeeze the most out of everymoment.
I'm Melissa, your coach,cheerleader and maybe even a
little bit like that mom whoalways has a warm hug and the
best advice waiting for you.
If you're a woman over 40,feeling like life's left you a
little lost, aimless ordownright stuck, you're in the
right place.
This is where your joy, yourfreedom and your purpose come
(01:30):
back into focus.
Together we'll laugh, learn andrediscover what makes you come
alive.
Because it's not too late, thisis your time, so grab a cup of
something warm, settle in andlet's start creating the next
most beautiful chapter of yourlife together.
Jennifer, I am so glad that youjoined me on the podcast today,
(01:51):
because we've had conversationsbefore and we're kind of in the
same area of coaching, but witha little bit of a different
twist, and I just love that youwanted to come on here and
support the listeners of my show.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, thank you so much, Melissa, for having me
because, as you and I chattedbefore, we share values and I
think we share certain lifeexperiences and faith, and being
able to lift people up is, Ithink, so important to both of
us.
We do focus on lifting women inparticular.
(02:29):
I also look at the leadershiprole that women occupy, leading
from wherever they are, at home,in the community, at work.
It's where we are extendinginfluence and I just I
appreciate that you and I havethat same heart value.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Agree, I appreciate it so much too and I love the
fact that faith is such a bigpart of what you do.
And even though I don't billmyself as a Christian coach
right, everything I do leadsfrom that world worldview.
And when I work with my clients, that's always kind of in the
back of my mind is how are weconnecting with that which is
(03:11):
greater, whom I call God, right,that which is greater in our
life experience?
So I just love that we bothkind of share that and it's a
big part of what we do.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Absolutely, and I just want to dive into that
upfront because 100% that is myfoundation and I do meet clients
wherever they are If they wantto bring their faith, their
spirituality, into, intocoaching.
Wonderful, and I embrace that.
With some clients we actuallypray.
With some clients we just knowthat that's a piece of what
(03:46):
they're looking to do is todeepen their spirituality and
their faith.
My company name, my coachingname, is Journey of Grace, so
that extends itself into thatdiscussion upfront with clients
and I just believe that byputting that out there, the
right people find you, they findwhat they're looking for, and
(04:07):
so you know, I think that whenwe deepen our own faith, we draw
in people who are seeking moreof that support.
I spent 23 years with the USDepartment of State, so I know
diplomacy.
I was a foreign service officerliving abroad for about 11
years and spending the rest ofmy time in Washington.
I get diplomacy and in thefaith space in this new chapter,
(04:32):
I feel I am being called to beGod's ambassador.
So using that diplomacy, if youwill, in a way that aligns with
my heart and my faith, I lovethat aligning with your heart.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That's, you're speaking my language, but I want
to dive into this idea that youshared with me about work life
balance.
So let's just like I mean,let's just throw aside all the
fluff and just dive right inLike, what is it that you
believe about work-life balance?
(05:08):
Because I think words reallymatter and the words that we
choose really, really matter,and you're choosing to use the
word balance.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yes In quotes.
So let me see, yes, I see it infront of me.
You're like work-life balance,yes.
So let me back up, because yourlast episode truly resonated
(05:39):
with me and you were so focusedon Empty, by Jackson Brown.
My son is named Jackson Brown,not intentionally, but for that
reason.
Not intentionally for thatreason, but for my whole career.
I would always joke that I wasrunning on empty, like my son is
(05:59):
Jackson and I'm running onempty, and so I use that humor
as a way to deflect the pain Iwas carrying from being so
exhausted, so burned out, that Iwas losing myself.
And so when people talk aboutwork-life quote balance, it just
(06:21):
makes me have that like feelingin my stomach because it
doesn't exist, right, it justdoesn't exist.
We can use the fluff words, butI have just, I've created my
own invention on this and I callit it's a pendulum, and we are
the CEOs of our lives, are theCEOs of our lives?
(06:48):
We have to know when to makethat pendulum intentionally
swing to the work side, to thepersonal side, to the community
side, to ourselves, right?
So wherever you are in yourlife, it's your responsibility
and privilege to know how tomake that pendulum swing.
Is it easy?
No, of course not, and so itrequires that intentional work
(07:10):
of being self-aware.
I had a wonderful boss, mentorand coach all wrapped in one
during my time with theDepartment of State, and as he
was coaching me one time he saidto me you have to put your own
oxygen mask on first.
Now, that's a quote we've heardbefore.
Right, we hear it on airplanes,we hear it wherever, but it
(07:33):
just it was like this gut punchof I'm not putting my oxygen
mask on first, and how can Ipour into my family, into my son
, into my team at work, how canI be that best leader when I'm
so depleted?
And so I really realized I haveto bring this pendulum back
(07:53):
over to me first, and from therethen I can start to do some
shifts and I really incorporatethe Pareto principle, the 80-20
principle.
I don't do it perfectly, noneof us do but the whole point is
where is that 20% in my lifewhere I really need that
pendulum to be okay?
(08:14):
Focus right here.
And then how, intentionally, doI decide when the priorities
need to shift to the next 20%?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, but you said it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
It's not easy to figure out how to direct that
pendulum and I'm just going tojump here and say there is a
reason that Jen and I do what wedo right, and I hope you can
hear it in her voice she istrying to help leaders learn how
(08:51):
to direct that pendulum so thatthey're not depleted right?
We do what we do because welived through it on our own,
without support 100%.
Right and I did have somesupport 100% and I did have some
support.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I don't want to deny that it was from that place of
being a burned out leader I gotmy first leadership coach.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
But we had to get to that space where I'm like I am
burnt out.
In my case, my body was failingme.
I was falling apart, baby,right, I was falling.
I was falling apart, baby, andlike, who do I turn to?
You know, I went to my medicaldoctors.
They couldn't help me.
I went to a therapist.
She helped a little, but, likeI had, I had to figure it out on
(09:42):
my own.
And that's why we say it's noteasy.
But I guarantee you, if youwork with a coach, it's not that
it's easy, but it's much easierbecause somebody who's been
there before they're walkingwith you, they're helping you,
they're showing you the paththat they walked to accomplish
what they did.
So I mean, I just wanted tojump in and say that, because I
don't really generally say thatto people, right, I don't do
(10:04):
that.
I'm not going to push what I doon you, but right now I just
felt like, oh my gosh, peopleneed to know it's not easy if
you're trying to do it on yourown.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So so true, right, the whole idea of coaching is
that we can guide you and walkwith you, beside you, to get to
those places.
Those answers the results thatyou want, so much faster than if
you do it on your own.
I spent 10, a good 10 plusyears of living with chronic
(10:35):
neck and shoulder pain, becausethat's where I carry my my
stress, and it was like to thepoint I couldn't turn my neck
Right.
So that's not a healthy place,but I didn't know coaching was
really out there and so and infact, I want to put a plug out
to our sisters in the youngergeneration, because I am hearing
(10:56):
more podcasts, more peoplefocused on how to get that
clarity before they're at theburnout place, and that's
exactly what we should be doing.
We should be walking with themand serving as models of.
I hope you do reflect and beintentional much sooner than I
did.
There's no need to carry thatstress in your body.
(11:18):
Right, and I will put a plugout there.
I was just on this wonderfulpodcast from someone who hosted
MLED.
The podcast is Wrestling WithLife and she's focused on her
target audience people in their20s to early 30s.
I love that she is sointentional about wrestling with
(11:41):
these questions, right?
How can we support each otherand lift each other up so that
we put our pain to purpose forthem and for others, right?
Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I love that, love that.
Yeah, deep breath.
I know, just deep breath, butyou've got me thinking like of
our grandparents and our parentswho, like, never talked about
any of this stuff and at leastwe're here at this stage going.
It doesn't have to be that wayit doesn't have to be that way.
(12:15):
I'm helping the women in our agegroup right, Overcome all of
this stuff because we'verealized this isn't right.
I shouldn't be feeling this wayat this point in my life.
That's right.
Our grandmothers and ourmothers they just did it because
they had no choice.
I actually have a choice, Right.
And and the next generation hasa choice now, Like they don't
(12:38):
have to wait until they get here.
They can do it now becausewe're showing them it doesn't
have to be this way.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And we're showing them in social.
I mean for all the negatives ofsocial media, the positives are
that we have platforms to sharethis information much sooner.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Which leads me to my next question about finding
purpose.
Yeah, that's one of the thingsthat I work on with my clients
is like we want to be excitedabout life again, and part of
that excitement comes fromknowing your purpose.
Right, I don't know about you,but I mean, for most of my life
(13:20):
I just flew by the seat of mypants.
Whatever was next is what I did, but I didn't know my purpose
until recently.
Now my kids knew it.
They could see it clearly, whatmy purpose was, what my passion
is.
It took me a lot longer tofigure it out, but like what are
your thoughts on purposes as itrelates to your coaching
(13:42):
practice and who you serve?
Yeah, I love this.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So I also will say I kind of started by the seat of
my pants.
When I started with the StateDepartment I took the test on a
whim.
I didn't fully know what I wasgetting into and what a
privilege it was to serve theUnited States.
I also found part of my callingin that service by specifically
(14:07):
working with US citizens andvisa applicants overseas.
Like being able especially tohelp US citizens in their most
dire circumstances overseas justfilled my heart.
So I knew there was an elementof service that truly spoke to
me.
It was then as a leader.
When I hit my burned out stageand I had a leadership coach, I
(14:30):
saw what doing the inner workcould do on me to ripple out
into my team and lift them, liftthe production, lift the morale
, like really come together, andI just became so passionate
about leadership work in thatspace.
Then I had some personaldownfalls we'll say some trials
(14:53):
and I went through personalcoaching and I saw, oh my gosh,
I can rise again.
Personally, it was really atthat point of hitting rock
bottom that I knew I wanted tobe in coaching.
I want to serve people who needthat holistic approach of I'm
(15:14):
lost.
I'm so numb I don't know whereto go and I'm supposed to show
up at work with this happy faceand compartmentalize, but we're
not meant to do that.
Yes, we have to, sometimesright Professionally, and yet we
as people are meant to show upas our full selves and live in
(15:36):
our full worth, and I wasn't so.
I knew that's where my pain topurpose was, was calling me.
I knew that's where my pain topurpose was calling me, and what
I love is that on this journeyI have continued to grow so much
through my coachingcertification, through working
with my clients and seeing theiraha moments and just
(15:59):
celebrating their shifts, alsoin the tough moments when it's
really hard and thosetransformations are not
immediate, right, and so thatprivilege and honor of standing
in the mud with them and feelingthe feels as they find their
purpose and their way out oftheir pain point.
(16:19):
So part of the work I'm doingright now is I'm in a John
Maxwell leadership certificationprogram.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I was just going to ask you about that.
I'm familiar with John Maxwelland everything that he's doing
and I was like, oh, this is socool, okay.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It's been a dream for years, and I have goosebumps
because I'm now in a stage oflife where I am doing this, I'm
taking a leap of faith.
Right?
It's not.
It's not a small investmentfinancially, emotionally,
mentally, time-wise it's.
It is a, it's a commitment,it's an intentional way of
(16:56):
adding value for me and for myclients, and so one of the
quotes that I or, yeah, one ofthe things I want to pull out
from his book of intentionalliving is that regarding purpose
.
John asked three main questionsto help us get to our why.
What do you cry about, what doyou sing about and what do you
(17:22):
dream about?
And if you answer thosequestions and think about the
things that are on the shouldlist in your life and I'm doing
should in quotes, because shouldto me can be like this negative
judgment voice in our heads,and if we use, though, the
should in a good way of I shouldbe doing this, well then what
(17:47):
is it about that should that iscalling to you and your purpose?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, yeah what do I dream about?
I ask my, I ask people thisquestion all the time.
Could you just imagine a world?
This is my dream.
Could you just imagine a worldwhere everyone is walking around
healing?
Yes, literally, that's my dream, like could you?
(18:15):
Just imagine that world.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yes, yes, I can.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And that is part of my purpose.
Like I am passionate about thepeople that I serve, I'm
passionate about lifting peopleup, and it's for that reason
because could you just imagine aworld where people are walking
around healing?
Yes, you know we're never goingto be perfect.
(18:42):
We know this.
We know we're never going toachieve perfection, but we can
be on that path toward it.
And healing and continuing toheal and heal.
And when an old wound surfaces,go, oh, that needs healing now.
Or when an old thought patternresurges, you can go oh, that
needs healing now.
Or when an old thought patternresurges, you can go oh, that
(19:05):
needs my attention now, you know.
And just being on that healing,path?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yes, 100%, and I think that's where the
intersection of leadership andpersonal growth come together.
For me, it goes back to asleaders, we have so much power
to create the ripple effect, theimpact on our families, on the
teams we lead, the communitieswhere we serve and live.
(19:32):
And so, even if we walk downthe street and just make eye
contact with someone and give asmile, how many times are those
small yet significant actsshowing someone?
I see you and you matter?
(19:52):
I share this story and I don'tknow why I'm sharing this, but
in two major cities, new YorkCity, and in Buenos Aires,
argentina I would walk down thestreet as I was visiting and
staying there for a little while, and you know, these are like
big kind of cold cities, right,Like people are just busy, move,
move, move.
I would make it a competitionof how many people can I make
(20:16):
eye contact with and say helloto, and sometimes people would
just kind of give me like thiswhat are you doing?
What's wrong with you, look?
And yet I was always surprisedby the number of people who
would smile and like wonder oflike this person actually is
looking at me.
Yeah, and I thought it doesn'tmatter.
I am doing this because thisfeels right to connect with
(20:42):
people.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Absolutely Well.
That's one of my core,foundational beliefs is, I
believe we were designed forconnection and community.
We weren't designed to live inisolation, and if COVID taught
us anything, it's that we arenot designed for isolation, even
if you're an introvert 100% weare not designed for isolation,
even if you're an introvert.
My whole family, other than meand my oldest son, are
(21:09):
introverts.
They need time alone torecharge, but they always come
back to people.
We always come back to people.
We need to be with people.
We were designed for connectionwith God first and then
connection with others, andwithout that we suffer.
We suffer greatly.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
We just suffer, we do suffer and we all need that
space to connect with God andourselves.
First Right, and it's thatinner work of being thoughtful
so that we can show up fullywhen we are present.
And you know, sometimes I thinkthat there's like this stigma
(21:42):
that extroverts just go, go, goand don't need that reflection
period.
And I'm pretty much anextrovert, I just love being out
and about.
Yet I am so inspired by my timealone in nature in particular,
as my connection place.
It goes back to that how am Iputting my oxygen mask on so
(22:05):
that I can then go, go, go in athoughtful way, not just to be
busy?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
And that's a huge difference because I was.
I was a doer, oh yeah, before Ibegan my healing journey and it
was about getting things done.
And I still want to get thingsdone.
That part of me is still there.
I haven't thrown that part ofmyself out the window.
I still love to get things done.
(22:34):
I'm still very task oriented,but it's not for the sake of
doing the task anymore.
There's things that just needto be done, but that's not for
the sake of doing the taskanymore.
Right, there's things that justneed to be done, but that's not
who I am anymore.
That was kind of how I judgedmy worth was how much I could
get done in a day, and that'snot who I am anymore.
(22:56):
I'm still a doer, but it's notmy worth.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Okay.
So now I'm going to startgeeking out a little bit into
some of the coaching becausethat whole idea of defining our
worth by success, of checkingoff the to-do list yes, oh, my
goodness.
Okay, I've wrestled with thismy entire life because I learned
from an early age thatperfection and doing equaled
(23:25):
accomplishment and success andpraise and promotion, and I
didn't have that foundation ofinner self-worth.
It's not that I was raised tofeel that way necessarily, and I
will put that caveat out therebecause I really want to dive in
here for a minute.
I'm also doing work in thepositive intelligence space that
(23:48):
was founded by Shirzad Shamimand he wrote the book on
positive intelligence, and whatI love about this work is that
it dives into our inner thoughts, our operating system in the
brain, and really some of themost critical thoughts that we
have about ourselves formed fromour childhood, from like as
(24:10):
early as age five.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Before we ever really had any cognitive thought.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Exactly yes, and these thoughts were really built
on underlying strengths.
So when I look at my sense ofdoing and accomplishing, I know
that my strengths are that I'mtask oriented, I'm detail
oriented, I'm a strategicthinker, I have that ability to
connect the dots and pull thingstogether.
(24:34):
So there are true strengthsthere, right are true strengths
there, right.
And what I learned is that byoverusing those strengths, I
defined myself in a way thatcreated this negative loop of
I'm going to beat myself up ifit's late, if it's not perfect,
if I'm not pleasing people, ifI'm not doing the next best
(24:58):
thing to define success inquotes.
And so that became my identity.
And let me tell you, go throughsome personal transitions,
transitioning from yourlongstanding career and your kid
going off to college, and youwill question your identity.
How do I know?
Because that was me within thelast several years.
(25:20):
And so I really had to get realwith myself and my thoughts.
Who am I and where is my worth?
Is it really my job, my career,is it really that I'm a mom?
And those things are part of it, but they're not me fully.
And so, as I started diving intothis positive intelligence, tq
(25:41):
work, what I realized is, oh mygosh, these negative, inner
critic thoughts are on autopilotand they're just bam, bam bam
going through my mind without meeven being aware of what's
going on.
I love mindfulness, don't getme wrong.
We need it.
The first step, though, is thatwe have to be aware of what
(26:03):
these thoughts are and we haveto catch them.
And then, from that catchingthese, what Shirzad Shamim calls
the saboteur voices fromcatching them, we actually get
to make a choice of shiftinginto the wiser, what he calls
more sage region of our brainright, the more creative space
(26:25):
of taking the step back andlooking at the strengths that
are available to us and how weare going to act.
And I say act, not react,because from the sage place, we
are being intentional, whereasfrom the autopilot, saboteur
place, we are reacting in a waythat does not serve us.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So I just want to say that this is absolutely 100%
what I love about coaching,because we we realize things
about ourselves, we have.
We come to this space where wecan see something clearly and
then we have a choice.
Yes, before we could, before wecould see it, there was no
(27:07):
choice.
Right, I was stuck on autopilot, there was nothing I could do
about it, because I didn't evenrealize there was a problem.
Right, I know there's somethingwrong, but I don't know what
the problem is.
Right, and then I startcoaching and I start working on
this, the inner child and allthese thought patterns and stuff
, and you see, and you, finallythe light bulb goes on.
(27:28):
Right, and you see somethingclearly.
And then you have a choice Ican keep doing that, I
absolutely can, sure, I can keepdoing that, or I can choose to
do differently, but until I seethat, until I see it, I can't do
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I've said this so many times in this this is what
I love about coaching, becauseyou're like there.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It is there and as the coach right and I'm working
with my clients I see the light.
I see the light come on in amoment and everything changes.
That's right, Everything.
And when I say everythingchanges, I mean everything
changes, not just that one thingwe were working on, because,
(28:16):
because everything in life, nowI can see it easier, I can see
it clearer and now I havechoices.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So this goes back right.
Martha Beck, one of thefounders in this space, would
say the mind produces theevidence for what you want to
see.
Yes, absolutely so.
If we are not aware of thechoices, the mind is going to
see all those negative things onthe repeat button, yep.
(28:45):
And once we're aware that wehave choices, more choices start
to come in, yes, yes.
And so like we start to see andthis is where I get the
goosebumps, I know it is sotransformational in how we can
show up and how we can beourselves and find that
self-worth that's not defined byquote success.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yes, and the other thing I love about coaching is
the ripple effect lasts longafter I'm finished working with
a client.
I'm finished working with aclient, I have clients reaching
(29:28):
out three, four, six monthsafter saying, oh my gosh this.
And it's like yes, I'm like yes, this is amazing, oh my gosh
and I get all fired up again.
Even though I'm technically notworking with them anymore, I'm
still getting benefit of theirtransformation.
It is just incredible.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So I was a leadership coach, also within the
Department of State, in additionto my regular duties there, and
I loved that work and one of myclients from there, the best
compliment was I'm channelingyour inner voice, and it's not
that it's about me, because it'snot.
The point is she got it.
(30:05):
She was aware of the optionsshe had and how she chose to
think, and this gets me intoresults.
Right, because we all wantsomething in particular.
We don't want to be in the painpoint.
Melissa, you and I share abusiness coach, and so our
clients don't want to be stuckin their pain point.
(30:26):
They want to get out of it,right.
And so when I first becameaware of coaching 15 years ago
or so, I listened to BrookeCastillo's the Life Coaching
School, and her model is onethat many have had.
Right, the circumstances areneutral, and then you have a
thought.
From the thought, you have afeeling, then you have an action
(30:48):
, and then you create a result,basic model of what we want or
what will happen, right?
I personally like to reverseengineer this, though, because
what's the result that we want?
We don't want to be in the painpoint, because what's the
result that we want, we don'twant to be in the pain point.
So what is it that we want?
We don't want to be stuck, wedon't want to be numb, we don't
want to be sitting in the carcrying when we get home from
(31:09):
work because we just can't facegoing in the house.
We're exhausted.
So what do we want?
I want to be happy to go insideand see my kids.
I want to be happy with my teamand empowering them and lifting
them up, and I want energy.
I want to feel that physically,mentally, spiritually, I am all
my game.
And so, from knowing what thatresult that we want is, then
(31:34):
let's take a step back and whatactions would get us to that
result?
Right, right.
And so then, through coaching,we work through the actions, so
we know actions are needed.
Then what feelings are we goingto need to feel to motivate us
to take these hard actions?
And I say hard because they'reintentional If you want the
result that you want, it's notgoing to happen overnight and
(31:56):
you're going to have to work,and this is where the coach can
help you be inspired to do this.
And it's your commitment tohave these feelings.
But you know what?
You can't just jump to afeeling of I'm inspired today.
I had four hours of sleep andI'm inspired today.
That's not going to happen.
So what thoughts do we need tobring into this model to get to
(32:20):
the feeling of being inspired?
And the thought is where we getto stop that inner critic and
say I'm making a choice andthese are the thoughts I need to
cultivate to get to that place.
And so when my client tyingthis back to what my client had
shared about channeling she wasdoing the work, she was looking
(32:42):
at the end result that shewanted and knowing the steps she
needed to take to get there andchanneling that thought as the
number one step.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
If I don't know where I want togo, I cannot lay out a path to
get there.
I don't care if we're talkingabout our thoughts or a road
trip.
If I don't know where I want togo, I can't lay out the path to
get there.
I don't care if we're talkingabout our thoughts or a road
trip.
If I don't know where I want togo.
I can't lay out the path to getthere.
And unfortunately, in oursociety it's so easy to focus on
the problem.
We watch a commercial.
(33:13):
All they do is focus on theproblem.
They focus on the.
Everything focuses on theproblem.
It's easy to focus on the.
Everything focuses on theproblem.
It's easy to focus on theproblem.
It's it's intentional to focuson the outcome, to focus on the
result, to focus on the solution.
And that takes.
That takes work, just likeyou're saying it takes.
(33:34):
I have to do the work to beable to shift that thought
process and it doesn't just, oh,the toxic positivity drives me
crazy.
Right, just meditate, just useessential oils, just do this,
and all those things arewonderful.
I'm not saying that they're not.
But just doing that is notgoing to shift everything for
(33:56):
you.
It's a process and it requiresknowing what you want everything
for you.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
It's a process and it requires knowing what you want.
Yes, they are tools in thetoolkit, absolutely so the
mindfulness, the meditation, thebaths, the massages.
I love all of that right, butthat in and of itself is not
going to get me from A to B, andso, in fact, you know, going
back to the PQ work, what I loveabout the positive intelligence
(34:24):
is the focus on mental fitness,and I can't tell you how many
times I'm in public or somewherewhere I'm like I don't have a
couple minutes to go, like dosome mindfulness, like do some
(34:44):
mindfulness longer.
Exercises per se, right, likemeditating.
Breathing is always availableto us wherever we are, and so
that, of course, is one of mygo-tos.
Another one that I really willgo to is rubbing two fingertips
together, like really deeplywhere I feel the fingertip and
the skin, and then, you know,kind of rubbing my fingertips
down from fingertip to palm oneach hand.
(35:05):
Doing that for 10 to 30 secondscan snap a negative thought, so
that then I can be back in thatwhat's possible realm, right,
but notice that I had to dosomething here, right?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
It didn't just, I didn't just shift a thought.
No, there's work to be done.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
There's work to be done In that moment it.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I had a nurse say to me one time they had someone
come in to teach them all aboutself-care and stress relief and
stuff like that, and the onething she took away from the
whole 30 minute talk was I don'thave time to just stop and
focus on my breathing.
And I love to remind people wedon't have to stop every single
thing that we're doing to shiftright.
(35:53):
We can still be doing andshifting at the same time, but
it takes practice, it takesawareness, it takes you know
there's work to be done.
I don't have time to just stopeverything I'm doing and go over
here and do some, you know, dosome meditation.
But I can stand and rub myfingers and I can think
(36:16):
differently and I can believedifferently in the moment, but I
still have to do the work.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
And so what if we all brush our teeth?
Hopefully, right so?
We're brushing our teeth andwe're aware of what the
toothbrush feels like, right andwhat if we're aware of that
first cup of coffee, the taste,or the tea or whatever?
These are things that we do inour lives anyway.
(36:44):
So how do we attach a mental?
fitness rep to that habit,because if we have to create a
new habit and more time, yeah,that's not probably going to
serve us because we are busy.
So how can we start?
Simple, in a way that sets usup for success.
One of the things I love, Ilove Mel Robbins.
(37:06):
So one of the things I loveabout Mel Robbins is her just
real approach to life.
And she says I'm still workingon this one because I still work
in that self-worth space.
But one thing she said is, asyou're in the bathroom in the
morning to brush your teeth,give yourself a high five in the
mirror.
And that ties back to ByronKatie, who started with the
(37:33):
yourself.
I love you in the mirror when Iwas first starting in the
self-worth space.
That was a leap a little toofar for me.
I couldn't look at myself andsay that in the mirror, so I
started with the I want to loveyou.
And then I got to I like you, Ilike this, you know, I like my
eyes, whatever space wasavailable to me.
And what I'm getting at, though, is these are habits that I
(38:00):
could easily easily quote do,because I was already standing
in front of the mirror to brushmy teeth.
It wasn't that I went to thebathroom with the intent of
doing those things.
I attached them to something Iwas already doing.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
So we're coming down to the end of our time, but I
want to talk to you all day.
I know, but I you know we gotto podcast, you know, make it by
and make it absorbable andchewable and I know I just love.
I love you and I love thisconversation Like if people
wanted to find you, if they'relike, I really like Jen, I like
(38:36):
the things that she's saying.
I think I'd like to know more.
Maybe I'm not ready to workwith her yet, but I like her and
I think I'd like to know more.
How do they, how do they get intouch with you, how do they
find you?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I love that, thank you.
So I have a website,journeyofgracecoachingcom.
I am revamping it, so bear withme on that one.
I also have a Facebook groupcalled Finding Our Fire.
It is really that whole idea oflifting women in their purpose
and encouraging them to be theirlight, for that ripple effect
(39:09):
of inspiring others.
I'm on Instagram, jenunderscore, journey of grace,
and LinkedIn, jen Brown, dashcoach.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Awesome, and if somebody is listening and
they're like I don't know ifshe's the right, like I don't
know if I should follow her,Like who should?
Who should be following you,who should be checking out your
website and who should bejoining your group?
Who?
Speaker 2 (39:33):
should be checking out your website and who should
be joining your group.
Well, I love that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
First, I just want to say there are so many wonderful
coaches out there, oh, but I'mjust going to jump in here right
now.
I have sat, like we have thesame business coach, yes, yeah,
and I have sat under otherbusiness coaches because in my
business I knew I wasfloundering, I didn't know what
to do, so I would go throughtheir masterclasses and stuff
and usually by the end of themasterclass I knew if they were
(40:00):
not the right coach for me.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I'm like nope, not for you, are not for me.
And you're right, there's somany different coaches, there's
so many different flavors andeven though you and I serve a
similar audience, we'redifferent people.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
We are.
Yeah, our styles are different,and that's what makes it great.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Exactly, and I could be the juiciest peach in the box
that we share, and somebody isnot going to like the peach that
I am, but they might love you.
So Right, no, thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Right, no, thank you, thank you.
So I love working with clientswho are facing the leadership
struggles particularly women,but all clients in that
leadership space where they arejust so feeling overwhelmed,
lost, burned out, struggling tofind their identity and purpose,
struggling to find theiridentity and purpose.
And the reason I love that isbecause I've been there and I
(40:58):
know it, and so I look forwardto walking with clients to help
them get to that other sidewhere so much joy and energy is
there to be the light.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
We started by talking about faith.
We started by talking about ourfaith and I would love to end
that way.
We started by talking about ourfaith and I would love to end
that way.
Yes, anything at all that youwould like to share around that?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yes, so in the midst of one of the worst seasons of
my life, my pastor was one of mysupport team members and she
really reminded me of Romans 5.
And I just believe in allthings, basically the
(41:43):
perseverance to get us to thatplace of hope and ditching shame
, ditching shame.
And it was really through thatverse where grace entered my
life in such a way that shiftedme, and that is why grace is a
(42:04):
part of my company name, becausethe importance of accepting
grace for ourselves and givingit to others is what makes it so
that we can all be better.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Well.
Again, thank you for sharingthis time, this space, with me.
Thank you for sharing yourheart with my listeners
Appreciate you so so, so much.
I'm going to include links toyour group and your website in
the show notes so people don'thave to go searching for it.
It's right there and you knowif, if, if you're in this
leadership position and you'relooking for a coach, it would be
(42:39):
Jen.
It's not me right, that's notmy forte.
Sure, I could help you, but youknow what the great thing about
being a coach is knowing othercoaches who have the skills to
help the people that I don't.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So it's, it is wonderful that we have that
abundant network so that we cando right for our clients,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And anytime you have a conversation, I would just
want to encourage everybodyAnytime you have a conversation
with a coach, you know, decideis this the right one for me?
And if it's not, ask them hey,I don't.
I would never be offended ifsomeone said I don't think
you're the right coach for meand if it's not, ask them, hey,
I don't, I don't.
I would never be offended ifsomeone said I don't think
you're the right coach for me.
Do you have anyone else that Icould talk to?
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I'd be like.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
I have a whole list of people.
What exactly are you lookingfor?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Right and and the other, the flip side of that is
for yourselves.
Just advocate for yourselfadvocate for yourself as a
client and as a coach.
We also have a responsibilityto say I don't think I'm the
right fit for you, and I havesomeone in my network who might
be Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Absolutely, oh, so wonderful, completely different
than other fields, really, yes,yes, love what we do.
Love you, jen, and thank you somuch.
Thanks so much for spending alittle time with me today on the
Lemon Balm Coaching Podcast.
I hope you're walking away withsomething that sparks joy, hope
or a fresh perspective for yourjourney.
(44:04):
If you loved today's episode,let's keep the conversation
going.
You can find more inspiration,coaching tips and resources over
at my website,lemonbalmcoachingcom.
Don't forget to follow me onsocial media for encouragement
and updates, and you'll find meon Instagram and Facebook at
Lemon Balm Coaching.
And hey, if you're looking fora supportive, uplifting
(44:24):
community of amazing women justlike you, come join us in the
Reignite your Flame Facebookgroup.
It's a safe, welcoming spacewhere we share, grow and cheer
each other on, and you can findthe link on my website or just
search for Reignite your Flameon Facebook.
Remember, honey, just beyourself.
The world needs what only youhave to offer.
Take care and I'll see you inthe next episode.
Friends, I am so excited to invite my good friend
, jen Brown, to the podcasttoday.
Jen is a life and leadershipcoach who partners with clients
at the holy crap, what now?
Crossroads.
Whether leaders are steppinginto first time or higher
leadership roles, they'recraving reinvention or they're
(00:27):
stuck in the fog of burnout orself-doubt.
She empowers them to find theirpurpose, develop tangible
action steps and create theenergy and ripple effect to
inspire others.
She brings experience workingin high pressure environments,
drawing on her two decade careeras a foreign service officer
(00:47):
with the US Department of State,where she also served as a
leadership coach.
She's an associate certifiedcoach through the ICF and a
certified professional co-activecoach from the Co-Active
Training Institute.
Welcome to the Lemon BalmCoaching Podcast, your cozy
corner of the world where we'llsip on life's lessons and
(01:09):
squeeze the most out of everymoment.
I'm Melissa, your coach,cheerleader and maybe even a
little bit like that mom whoalways has a warm hug and the
best advice waiting for you.
If you're a woman over 40,feeling like life's left you a
little lost, aimless ordownright stuck, you're in the
right place.
This is where your joy, yourfreedom and your purpose come
(01:30):
back into focus.
Together we'll laugh, learn andrediscover what makes you come
alive.
Because it's not too late, thisis your time, so grab a cup of
something warm, settle in andlet's start creating the next
most beautiful chapter of yourlife together.
Jennifer, I am so glad that youjoined me on the podcast today,
(01:51):
because we've had conversationsbefore and we're kind of in the
same area of coaching, but witha little bit of a different
twist, and I just love that youwanted to come on here and
support the listeners of my show.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Well, thank you so much, Melissa, for having me
because, as you and I chattedbefore, we share values and I
think we share certain lifeexperiences and faith, and being
able to lift people up is, Ithink, so important to both of
us.
We do focus on lifting women inparticular.
(02:29):
I also look at the leadershiprole that women occupy, leading
from wherever they are, at home,in the community, at work.
It's where we are extendinginfluence and I just I
appreciate that you and I havethat same heart value.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Agree, I appreciate it so much too and I love the
fact that faith is such a bigpart of what you do.
And even though I don't billmyself as a Christian coach
right, everything I do leadsfrom that world worldview.
And when I work with my clients, that's always kind of in the
back of my mind is how are weconnecting with that which is
(03:11):
greater, whom I call God, right,that which is greater in our
life experience?
So I just love that we bothkind of share that and it's a
big part of what we do.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Absolutely, and I just want to dive into that
upfront because 100% that is myfoundation and I do meet clients
wherever they are If they wantto bring their faith, their
spirituality, into, intocoaching.
Wonderful, and I embrace that.
With some clients we actuallypray.
With some clients we just knowthat that's a piece of what
(03:46):
they're looking to do is todeepen their spirituality and
their faith.
My company name, my coachingname, is Journey of Grace, so
that extends itself into thatdiscussion upfront with clients
and I just believe that byputting that out there, the
right people find you, they findwhat they're looking for, and
(04:07):
so you know, I think that whenwe deepen our own faith, we draw
in people who are seeking moreof that support.
I spent 23 years with the USDepartment of State, so I know
diplomacy.
I was a foreign service officerliving abroad for about 11
years and spending the rest ofmy time in Washington.
I get diplomacy and in thefaith space in this new chapter,
(04:32):
I feel I am being called to beGod's ambassador.
So using that diplomacy, if youwill, in a way that aligns with
my heart and my faith, I lovethat aligning with your heart.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
That's, you're speaking my language, but I want
to dive into this idea that youshared with me about work life
balance.
So let's just like I mean,let's just throw aside all the
fluff and just dive right inLike, what is it that you
believe about work-life balance?
(05:08):
Because I think words reallymatter and the words that we
choose really, really matter,and you're choosing to use the
word balance.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yes In quotes.
So let me see, yes, I see it infront of me.
You're like work-life balance,yes.
So let me back up, because yourlast episode truly resonated
(05:39):
with me and you were so focusedon Empty, by Jackson Brown.
My son is named Jackson Brown,not intentionally, but for that
reason.
Not intentionally for thatreason, but for my whole career.
I would always joke that I wasrunning on empty, like my son is
(05:59):
Jackson and I'm running onempty, and so I use that humor
as a way to deflect the pain Iwas carrying from being so
exhausted, so burned out, that Iwas losing myself.
And so when people talk aboutwork-life quote balance, it just
(06:21):
makes me have that like feelingin my stomach because it
doesn't exist, right, it justdoesn't exist.
We can use the fluff words, butI have just, I've created my
own invention on this and I callit it's a pendulum, and we are
the CEOs of our lives, are theCEOs of our lives?
(06:48):
We have to know when to makethat pendulum intentionally
swing to the work side, to thepersonal side, to the community
side, to ourselves, right?
So wherever you are in yourlife, it's your responsibility
and privilege to know how tomake that pendulum swing.
Is it easy?
No, of course not, and so itrequires that intentional work
(07:10):
of being self-aware.
I had a wonderful boss, mentorand coach all wrapped in one
during my time with theDepartment of State, and as he
was coaching me one time he saidto me you have to put your own
oxygen mask on first.
Now, that's a quote we've heardbefore.
Right, we hear it on airplanes,we hear it wherever, but it
(07:33):
just it was like this gut punchof I'm not putting my oxygen
mask on first, and how can Ipour into my family, into my son
, into my team at work, how canI be that best leader when I'm
so depleted?
And so I really realized I haveto bring this pendulum back
(07:53):
over to me first, and from therethen I can start to do some
shifts and I really incorporatethe Pareto principle, the 80-20
principle.
I don't do it perfectly, noneof us do but the whole point is
where is that 20% in my lifewhere I really need that
pendulum to be okay?
(08:14):
Focus right here.
And then how, intentionally, doI decide when the priorities
need to shift to the next 20%?
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, but you said it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
No.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
It's not easy to figure out how to direct that
pendulum and I'm just going tojump here and say there is a
reason that Jen and I do what wedo right, and I hope you can
hear it in her voice she istrying to help leaders learn how
(08:51):
to direct that pendulum so thatthey're not depleted right?
We do what we do because welived through it on our own,
without support 100%.
Right and I did have somesupport 100% and I did have some
support.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I don't want to deny that it was from that place of
being a burned out leader I gotmy first leadership coach.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
But we had to get to that space where I'm like I am
burnt out.
In my case, my body was failingme.
I was falling apart, baby,right, I was falling.
I was falling apart, baby, andlike, who do I turn to?
You know, I went to my medicaldoctors.
They couldn't help me.
I went to a therapist.
She helped a little, but, likeI had, I had to figure it out on
(09:42):
my own.
And that's why we say it's noteasy.
But I guarantee you, if youwork with a coach, it's not that
it's easy, but it's much easierbecause somebody who's been
there before they're walkingwith you, they're helping you,
they're showing you the paththat they walked to accomplish
what they did.
So I mean, I just wanted tojump in and say that, because I
don't really generally say thatto people, right, I don't do
(10:04):
that.
I'm not going to push what I doon you, but right now I just
felt like, oh my gosh, peopleneed to know it's not easy if
you're trying to do it on yourown.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
So so true, right, the whole idea of coaching is
that we can guide you and walkwith you, beside you, to get to
those places.
Those answers the results thatyou want, so much faster than if
you do it on your own.
I spent 10, a good 10 plusyears of living with chronic
(10:35):
neck and shoulder pain, becausethat's where I carry my my
stress, and it was like to thepoint I couldn't turn my neck
Right.
So that's not a healthy place,but I didn't know coaching was
really out there and so and infact, I want to put a plug out
to our sisters in the youngergeneration, because I am hearing
(10:56):
more podcasts, more peoplefocused on how to get that
clarity before they're at theburnout place, and that's
exactly what we should be doing.
We should be walking with themand serving as models of.
I hope you do reflect and beintentional much sooner than I
did.
There's no need to carry thatstress in your body.
(11:18):
Right, and I will put a plugout there.
I was just on this wonderfulpodcast from someone who hosted
MLED.
The podcast is Wrestling WithLife and she's focused on her
target audience people in their20s to early 30s.
I love that she is sointentional about wrestling with
(11:41):
these questions, right?
How can we support each otherand lift each other up so that
we put our pain to purpose forthem and for others, right?
Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
I love that, love that.
Yeah, deep breath.
I know, just deep breath, butyou've got me thinking like of
our grandparents and our parentswho, like, never talked about
any of this stuff and at leastwe're here at this stage going.
It doesn't have to be that wayit doesn't have to be that way.
(12:15):
I'm helping the women in our agegroup right, Overcome all of
this stuff because we'verealized this isn't right.
I shouldn't be feeling this wayat this point in my life.
That's right.
Our grandmothers and ourmothers they just did it because
they had no choice.
I actually have a choice, Right.
And and the next generation hasa choice now, Like they don't
(12:38):
have to wait until they get here.
They can do it now becausewe're showing them it doesn't
have to be this way.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
And we're showing them in social.
I mean for all the negatives ofsocial media, the positives are
that we have platforms to sharethis information much sooner.
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Which leads me to my next question about finding
purpose.
Yeah, that's one of the thingsthat I work on with my clients
is like we want to be excitedabout life again, and part of
that excitement comes fromknowing your purpose.
Right, I don't know about you,but I mean, for most of my life
(13:20):
I just flew by the seat of mypants.
Whatever was next is what I did, but I didn't know my purpose
until recently.
Now my kids knew it.
They could see it clearly, whatmy purpose was, what my passion
is.
It took me a lot longer tofigure it out, but like what are
your thoughts on purposes as itrelates to your coaching
(13:42):
practice and who you serve?
Yeah, I love this.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So I also will say I kind of started by the seat of
my pants.
When I started with the StateDepartment I took the test on a
whim.
I didn't fully know what I wasgetting into and what a
privilege it was to serve theUnited States.
I also found part of my callingin that service by specifically
(14:07):
working with US citizens andvisa applicants overseas.
Like being able especially tohelp US citizens in their most
dire circumstances overseas justfilled my heart.
So I knew there was an elementof service that truly spoke to
me.
It was then as a leader.
When I hit my burned out stageand I had a leadership coach, I
(14:30):
saw what doing the inner workcould do on me to ripple out
into my team and lift them, liftthe production, lift the morale
, like really come together, andI just became so passionate
about leadership work in thatspace.
Then I had some personaldownfalls we'll say some trials
(14:53):
and I went through personalcoaching and I saw, oh my gosh,
I can rise again.
Personally, it was really atthat point of hitting rock
bottom that I knew I wanted tobe in coaching.
I want to serve people who needthat holistic approach of I'm
(15:14):
lost.
I'm so numb I don't know whereto go and I'm supposed to show
up at work with this happy faceand compartmentalize, but we're
not meant to do that.
Yes, we have to, sometimesright Professionally, and yet we
as people are meant to show upas our full selves and live in
(15:36):
our full worth, and I wasn't so.
I knew that's where my pain topurpose was, was calling me.
I knew that's where my pain topurpose was calling me, and what
I love is that on this journeyI have continued to grow so much
through my coachingcertification, through working
with my clients and seeing theiraha moments and just
(15:59):
celebrating their shifts, alsoin the tough moments when it's
really hard and thosetransformations are not
immediate, right, and so thatprivilege and honor of standing
in the mud with them and feelingthe feels as they find their
purpose and their way out oftheir pain point.
(16:19):
So part of the work I'm doingright now is I'm in a John
Maxwell leadership certificationprogram.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I was just going to ask you about that.
I'm familiar with John Maxwelland everything that he's doing
and I was like, oh, this is socool, okay.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It's been a dream for years, and I have goosebumps
because I'm now in a stage oflife where I am doing this, I'm
taking a leap of faith.
Right?
It's not.
It's not a small investmentfinancially, emotionally,
mentally, time-wise it's.
It is a, it's a commitment,it's an intentional way of
(16:56):
adding value for me and for myclients, and so one of the
quotes that I or, yeah, one ofthe things I want to pull out
from his book of intentionalliving is that regarding purpose
.
John asked three main questionsto help us get to our why.
What do you cry about, what doyou sing about and what do you
(17:22):
dream about?
And if you answer thosequestions and think about the
things that are on the shouldlist in your life and I'm doing
should in quotes, because shouldto me can be like this negative
judgment voice in our heads,and if we use, though, the
should in a good way of I shouldbe doing this, well then what
(17:47):
is it about that should that iscalling to you and your purpose?
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, yeah what do I dream about?
I ask my, I ask people thisquestion all the time.
Could you just imagine a world?
This is my dream.
Could you just imagine a worldwhere everyone is walking around
healing?
Yes, literally, that's my dream, like could you?
(18:15):
Just imagine that world.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yes, yes, I can.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
And that is part of my purpose.
Like I am passionate about thepeople that I serve, I'm
passionate about lifting peopleup, and it's for that reason
because could you just imagine aworld where people are walking
around healing?
Yes, you know we're never goingto be perfect.
(18:42):
We know this.
We know we're never going toachieve perfection, but we can
be on that path toward it.
And healing and continuing toheal and heal.
And when an old wound surfaces,go, oh, that needs healing now.
Or when an old thought patternresurges, you can go oh, that
needs healing now.
Or when an old thought patternresurges, you can go oh, that
(19:05):
needs my attention now, you know.
And just being on that healing,path?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yes, 100%, and I think that's where the
intersection of leadership andpersonal growth come together.
For me, it goes back to asleaders, we have so much power
to create the ripple effect, theimpact on our families, on the
teams we lead, the communitieswhere we serve and live.
(19:32):
And so, even if we walk downthe street and just make eye
contact with someone and give asmile, how many times are those
small yet significant actsshowing someone?
I see you and you matter?
(19:52):
I share this story and I don'tknow why I'm sharing this, but
in two major cities, new YorkCity, and in Buenos Aires,
argentina I would walk down thestreet as I was visiting and
staying there for a little while, and you know, these are like
big kind of cold cities, right,Like people are just busy, move,
move, move.
I would make it a competitionof how many people can I make
(20:16):
eye contact with and say helloto, and sometimes people would
just kind of give me like thiswhat are you doing?
What's wrong with you, look?
And yet I was always surprisedby the number of people who
would smile and like wonder oflike this person actually is
looking at me.
Yeah, and I thought it doesn'tmatter.
I am doing this because thisfeels right to connect with
(20:42):
people.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Absolutely Well.
That's one of my core,foundational beliefs is, I
believe we were designed forconnection and community.
We weren't designed to live inisolation, and if COVID taught
us anything, it's that we arenot designed for isolation, even
if you're an introvert 100% weare not designed for isolation,
even if you're an introvert.
My whole family, other than meand my oldest son, are
(21:09):
introverts.
They need time alone torecharge, but they always come
back to people.
We always come back to people.
We need to be with people.
We were designed for connectionwith God first and then
connection with others, andwithout that we suffer.
We suffer greatly.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
We just suffer, we do suffer and we all need that
space to connect with God andourselves.
First Right, and it's thatinner work of being thoughtful
so that we can show up fullywhen we are present.
And you know, sometimes I thinkthat there's like this stigma
(21:42):
that extroverts just go, go, goand don't need that reflection
period.
And I'm pretty much anextrovert, I just love being out
and about.
Yet I am so inspired by my timealone in nature in particular,
as my connection place.
It goes back to that how am Iputting my oxygen mask on so
(22:05):
that I can then go, go, go in athoughtful way, not just to be
busy?
Speaker 1 (22:11):
And that's a huge difference because I was.
I was a doer, oh yeah, before Ibegan my healing journey and it
was about getting things done.
And I still want to get thingsdone.
That part of me is still there.
I haven't thrown that part ofmyself out the window.
I still love to get things done.
(22:34):
I'm still very task oriented,but it's not for the sake of
doing the task anymore.
There's things that just needto be done, but that's not for
the sake of doing the taskanymore.
Right, there's things that justneed to be done, but that's not
who I am anymore.
That was kind of how I judgedmy worth was how much I could
get done in a day, and that'snot who I am anymore.
(22:56):
I'm still a doer, but it's notmy worth.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Okay.
So now I'm going to startgeeking out a little bit into
some of the coaching becausethat whole idea of defining our
worth by success, of checkingoff the to-do list yes, oh, my
goodness.
Okay, I've wrestled with thismy entire life because I learned
from an early age thatperfection and doing equaled
(23:25):
accomplishment and success andpraise and promotion, and I
didn't have that foundation ofinner self-worth.
It's not that I was raised tofeel that way necessarily, and I
will put that caveat out therebecause I really want to dive in
here for a minute.
I'm also doing work in thepositive intelligence space that
(23:48):
was founded by Shirzad Shamimand he wrote the book on
positive intelligence, and whatI love about this work is that
it dives into our inner thoughts, our operating system in the
brain, and really some of themost critical thoughts that we
have about ourselves formed fromour childhood, from like as
(24:10):
early as age five.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Before we ever really had any cognitive thought.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Exactly yes, and these thoughts were really built
on underlying strengths.
So when I look at my sense ofdoing and accomplishing, I know
that my strengths are that I'mtask oriented, I'm detail
oriented, I'm a strategicthinker, I have that ability to
connect the dots and pull thingstogether.
(24:34):
So there are true strengthsthere, right are true strengths
there, right.
And what I learned is that byoverusing those strengths, I
defined myself in a way thatcreated this negative loop of
I'm going to beat myself up ifit's late, if it's not perfect,
if I'm not pleasing people, ifI'm not doing the next best
(24:58):
thing to define success inquotes.
And so that became my identity.
And let me tell you, go throughsome personal transitions,
transitioning from yourlongstanding career and your kid
going off to college, and youwill question your identity.
How do I know?
Because that was me within thelast several years.
(25:20):
And so I really had to get realwith myself and my thoughts.
Who am I and where is my worth?
Is it really my job, my career,is it really that I'm a mom?
And those things are part of it, but they're not me fully.
And so, as I started diving intothis positive intelligence, tq
(25:41):
work, what I realized is, oh mygosh, these negative, inner
critic thoughts are on autopilotand they're just bam, bam bam
going through my mind without meeven being aware of what's
going on.
I love mindfulness, don't getme wrong.
We need it.
The first step, though, is thatwe have to be aware of what
(26:03):
these thoughts are and we haveto catch them.
And then, from that catchingthese, what Shirzad Shamim calls
the saboteur voices fromcatching them, we actually get
to make a choice of shiftinginto the wiser, what he calls
more sage region of our brainright, the more creative space
(26:25):
of taking the step back andlooking at the strengths that
are available to us and how weare going to act.
And I say act, not react,because from the sage place, we
are being intentional, whereasfrom the autopilot, saboteur
place, we are reacting in a waythat does not serve us.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So I just want to say that this is absolutely 100%
what I love about coaching,because we we realize things
about ourselves, we have.
We come to this space where wecan see something clearly and
then we have a choice.
Yes, before we could, before wecould see it, there was no
(27:07):
choice.
Right, I was stuck on autopilot, there was nothing I could do
about it, because I didn't evenrealize there was a problem.
Right, I know there's somethingwrong, but I don't know what
the problem is.
Right, and then I startcoaching and I start working on
this, the inner child and allthese thought patterns and stuff
, and you see, and you, finallythe light bulb goes on.
(27:28):
Right, and you see somethingclearly.
And then you have a choice Ican keep doing that, I
absolutely can, sure, I can keepdoing that, or I can choose to
do differently, but until I seethat, until I see it, I can't do
anything about it.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I've said this so many times in this this is what
I love about coaching, becauseyou're like there.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
It is there and as the coach right and I'm working
with my clients I see the light.
I see the light come on in amoment and everything changes.
That's right, Everything.
And when I say everythingchanges, I mean everything
changes, not just that one thingwe were working on, because,
(28:16):
because everything in life, nowI can see it easier, I can see
it clearer and now I havechoices.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
So this goes back right.
Martha Beck, one of thefounders in this space, would
say the mind produces theevidence for what you want to
see.
Yes, absolutely so.
If we are not aware of thechoices, the mind is going to
see all those negative things onthe repeat button, yep.
(28:45):
And once we're aware that wehave choices, more choices start
to come in, yes, yes.
And so like we start to see andthis is where I get the
goosebumps, I know it is sotransformational in how we can
show up and how we can beourselves and find that
self-worth that's not defined byquote success.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yes, and the other thing I love about coaching is
the ripple effect lasts longafter I'm finished working with
a client.
I'm finished working with aclient, I have clients reaching
(29:28):
out three, four, six monthsafter saying, oh my gosh this.
And it's like yes, I'm like yes, this is amazing, oh my gosh
and I get all fired up again.
Even though I'm technically notworking with them anymore, I'm
still getting benefit of theirtransformation.
It is just incredible.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So I was a leadership coach, also within the
Department of State, in additionto my regular duties there, and
I loved that work and one of myclients from there, the best
compliment was I'm channelingyour inner voice, and it's not
that it's about me, because it'snot.
The point is she got it.
(30:05):
She was aware of the optionsshe had and how she chose to
think, and this gets me intoresults.
Right, because we all wantsomething in particular.
We don't want to be in the painpoint.
Melissa, you and I share abusiness coach, and so our
clients don't want to be stuckin their pain point.
(30:26):
They want to get out of it,right.
And so when I first becameaware of coaching 15 years ago
or so, I listened to BrookeCastillo's the Life Coaching
School, and her model is onethat many have had.
Right, the circumstances areneutral, and then you have a
thought.
From the thought, you have afeeling, then you have an action
(30:48):
, and then you create a result,basic model of what we want or
what will happen, right?
I personally like to reverseengineer this, though, because
what's the result that we want?
We don't want to be in the painpoint, because what's the
result that we want, we don'twant to be in the pain point.
So what is it that we want?
We don't want to be stuck, wedon't want to be numb, we don't
want to be sitting in the carcrying when we get home from
(31:09):
work because we just can't facegoing in the house.
We're exhausted.
So what do we want?
I want to be happy to go insideand see my kids.
I want to be happy with my teamand empowering them and lifting
them up, and I want energy.
I want to feel that physically,mentally, spiritually, I am all
my game.
And so, from knowing what thatresult that we want is, then
(31:34):
let's take a step back and whatactions would get us to that
result?
Right, right.
And so then, through coaching,we work through the actions, so
we know actions are needed.
Then what feelings are we goingto need to feel to motivate us
to take these hard actions?
And I say hard because they'reintentional If you want the
result that you want, it's notgoing to happen overnight and
(31:56):
you're going to have to work,and this is where the coach can
help you be inspired to do this.
And it's your commitment tohave these feelings.
But you know what?
You can't just jump to afeeling of I'm inspired today.
I had four hours of sleep andI'm inspired today.
That's not going to happen.
So what thoughts do we need tobring into this model to get to
(32:20):
the feeling of being inspired?
And the thought is where we getto stop that inner critic and
say I'm making a choice andthese are the thoughts I need to
cultivate to get to that place.
And so when my client tyingthis back to what my client had
shared about channeling she wasdoing the work, she was looking
(32:42):
at the end result that shewanted and knowing the steps she
needed to take to get there andchanneling that thought as the
number one step.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
If I don't know where I want togo, I cannot lay out a path to
get there.
I don't care if we're talkingabout our thoughts or a road
trip.
If I don't know where I want togo, I can't lay out the path to
get there.
I don't care if we're talkingabout our thoughts or a road
trip.
If I don't know where I want togo.
I can't lay out the path to getthere.
And unfortunately, in oursociety it's so easy to focus on
the problem.
We watch a commercial.
(33:13):
All they do is focus on theproblem.
They focus on the.
Everything focuses on theproblem.
It's easy to focus on the.
Everything focuses on theproblem.
It's easy to focus on theproblem.
It's it's intentional to focuson the outcome, to focus on the
result, to focus on the solution.
And that takes.
That takes work, just likeyou're saying it takes.
(33:34):
I have to do the work to beable to shift that thought
process and it doesn't just, oh,the toxic positivity drives me
crazy.
Right, just meditate, just useessential oils, just do this,
and all those things arewonderful.
I'm not saying that they're not.
But just doing that is notgoing to shift everything for
(33:56):
you.
It's a process and it requiresknowing what you want everything
for you.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
It's a process and it requires knowing what you want.
Yes, they are tools in thetoolkit, absolutely so the
mindfulness, the meditation, thebaths, the massages.
I love all of that right, butthat in and of itself is not
going to get me from A to B, andso, in fact, you know, going
back to the PQ work, what I loveabout the positive intelligence
(34:24):
is the focus on mental fitness,and I can't tell you how many
times I'm in public or somewherewhere I'm like I don't have a
couple minutes to go, like dosome mindfulness, like do some
(34:44):
mindfulness longer.
Exercises per se, right, likemeditating.
Breathing is always availableto us wherever we are, and so
that, of course, is one of mygo-tos.
Another one that I really willgo to is rubbing two fingertips
together, like really deeplywhere I feel the fingertip and
the skin, and then, you know,kind of rubbing my fingertips
down from fingertip to palm oneach hand.
(35:05):
Doing that for 10 to 30 secondscan snap a negative thought, so
that then I can be back in thatwhat's possible realm, right,
but notice that I had to dosomething here, right?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
It didn't just, I didn't just shift a thought.
No, there's work to be done.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
There's work to be done In that moment it.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
I had a nurse say to me one time they had someone
come in to teach them all aboutself-care and stress relief and
stuff like that, and the onething she took away from the
whole 30 minute talk was I don'thave time to just stop and
focus on my breathing.
And I love to remind people wedon't have to stop every single
thing that we're doing to shiftright.
(35:53):
We can still be doing andshifting at the same time, but
it takes practice, it takesawareness, it takes you know
there's work to be done.
I don't have time to just stopeverything I'm doing and go over
here and do some, you know, dosome meditation.
But I can stand and rub myfingers and I can think
(36:16):
differently and I can believedifferently in the moment, but I
still have to do the work.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
And so what if we all brush our teeth?
Hopefully, right so?
We're brushing our teeth andwe're aware of what the
toothbrush feels like, right andwhat if we're aware of that
first cup of coffee, the taste,or the tea or whatever?
These are things that we do inour lives anyway.
(36:44):
So how do we attach a mental?
fitness rep to that habit,because if we have to create a
new habit and more time, yeah,that's not probably going to
serve us because we are busy.
So how can we start?
Simple, in a way that sets usup for success.
One of the things I love, Ilove Mel Robbins.
(37:06):
So one of the things I loveabout Mel Robbins is her just
real approach to life.
And she says I'm still workingon this one because I still work
in that self-worth space.
But one thing she said is, asyou're in the bathroom in the
morning to brush your teeth,give yourself a high five in the
mirror.
And that ties back to ByronKatie, who started with the
(37:33):
yourself.
I love you in the mirror when Iwas first starting in the
self-worth space.
That was a leap a little toofar for me.
I couldn't look at myself andsay that in the mirror, so I
started with the I want to loveyou.
And then I got to I like you, Ilike this, you know, I like my
eyes, whatever space wasavailable to me.
And what I'm getting at, though, is these are habits that I
(38:00):
could easily easily quote do,because I was already standing
in front of the mirror to brushmy teeth.
It wasn't that I went to thebathroom with the intent of
doing those things.
I attached them to something Iwas already doing.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
So we're coming down to the end of our time, but I
want to talk to you all day.
I know, but I you know we gotto podcast, you know, make it by
and make it absorbable andchewable and I know I just love.
I love you and I love thisconversation Like if people
wanted to find you, if they'relike, I really like Jen, I like
(38:36):
the things that she's saying.
I think I'd like to know more.
Maybe I'm not ready to workwith her yet, but I like her and
I think I'd like to know more.
How do they, how do they get intouch with you, how do they
find you?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
I love that, thank you.
So I have a website,journeyofgracecoachingcom.
I am revamping it, so bear withme on that one.
I also have a Facebook groupcalled Finding Our Fire.
It is really that whole idea oflifting women in their purpose
and encouraging them to be theirlight, for that ripple effect
(39:09):
of inspiring others.
I'm on Instagram, jenunderscore, journey of grace,
and LinkedIn, jen Brown, dashcoach.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Awesome, and if somebody is listening and
they're like I don't know ifshe's the right, like I don't
know if I should follow her,Like who should?
Who should be following you,who should be checking out your
website and who should bejoining your group?
Who?
Speaker 2 (39:33):
should be checking out your website and who should
be joining your group.
Well, I love that.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
First, I just want to say there are so many wonderful
coaches out there, oh, but I'mjust going to jump in here right
now.
I have sat, like we have thesame business coach, yes, yeah,
and I have sat under otherbusiness coaches because in my
business I knew I wasfloundering, I didn't know what
to do, so I would go throughtheir masterclasses and stuff
and usually by the end of themasterclass I knew if they were
(40:00):
not the right coach for me.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I'm like nope, not for you, are not for me.
And you're right, there's somany different coaches, there's
so many different flavors andeven though you and I serve a
similar audience, we'redifferent people.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
We are.
Yeah, our styles are different,and that's what makes it great.
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Exactly, and I could be the juiciest peach in the box
that we share, and somebody isnot going to like the peach that
I am, but they might love you.
So Right, no, thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Right, no, thank you, thank you.
So I love working with clientswho are facing the leadership
struggles particularly women,but all clients in that
leadership space where they arejust so feeling overwhelmed,
lost, burned out, struggling tofind their identity and purpose,
struggling to find theiridentity and purpose.
And the reason I love that isbecause I've been there and I
(40:58):
know it, and so I look forwardto walking with clients to help
them get to that other sidewhere so much joy and energy is
there to be the light.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
We started by talking about faith.
We started by talking about ourfaith and I would love to end
that way.
We started by talking about ourfaith and I would love to end
that way.
Yes, anything at all that youwould like to share around that?
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yes, so in the midst of one of the worst seasons of
my life, my pastor was one of mysupport team members and she
really reminded me of Romans 5.
And I just believe in allthings, basically the
(41:43):
perseverance to get us to thatplace of hope and ditching shame
, ditching shame.
And it was really through thatverse where grace entered my
life in such a way that shiftedme, and that is why grace is a
(42:04):
part of my company name, becausethe importance of accepting
grace for ourselves and givingit to others is what makes it so
that we can all be better.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Well.
Again, thank you for sharingthis time, this space, with me.
Thank you for sharing yourheart with my listeners
Appreciate you so so, so much.
I'm going to include links toyour group and your website in
the show notes so people don'thave to go searching for it.
It's right there and you knowif, if, if you're in this
leadership position and you'relooking for a coach, it would be
(42:39):
Jen.
It's not me right, that's notmy forte.
Sure, I could help you, but youknow what the great thing about
being a coach is knowing othercoaches who have the skills to
help the people that I don't.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
So it's, it is wonderful that we have that
abundant network so that we cando right for our clients,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
And anytime you have a conversation, I would just
want to encourage everybodyAnytime you have a conversation
with a coach, you know, decideis this the right one for me?
And if it's not, ask them hey,I don't.
I would never be offended ifsomeone said I don't think
you're the right coach for meand if it's not, ask them, hey,
I don't, I don't.
I would never be offended ifsomeone said I don't think
you're the right coach for me.
Do you have anyone else that Icould talk to?
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I'd be like.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
I have a whole list of people.
What exactly are you lookingfor?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Right and and the other, the flip side of that is
for yourselves.
Just advocate for yourselfadvocate for yourself as a
client and as a coach.
We also have a responsibilityto say I don't think I'm the
right fit for you, and I havesomeone in my network who might
be Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Absolutely, oh, so wonderful, completely different
than other fields, really, yes,yes, love what we do.
Love you, jen, and thank you somuch.
Thanks so much for spending alittle time with me today on the
Lemon Balm Coaching Podcast.
I hope you're walking away withsomething that sparks joy, hope
or a fresh perspective for yourjourney.
(44:04):
If you loved today's episode,let's keep the conversation
going.
You can find more inspiration,coaching tips and resources over
at my website,lemonbalmcoachingcom.
Don't forget to follow me onsocial media for encouragement
and updates, and you'll find meon Instagram and Facebook at
Lemon Balm Coaching.
And hey, if you're looking fora supportive, uplifting
(44:24):
community of amazing women justlike you, come join us in the
Reignite your Flame Facebookgroup.
It's a safe, welcoming spacewhere we share, grow and cheer
each other on, and you can findthe link on my website or just
search for Reignite your Flameon Facebook.
Remember, honey, just beyourself.
The world needs what only youhave to offer.
Take care and I'll see you inthe next episode.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
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