August 11, 2024 • 29 mins
Discover the secret to genuine self-care without breaking the bank! In our season opener of the Let Me Interrupt podcast, we welcome the brilliant Melissa Dumaz, a licensed marriage and family therapist, to unravel the myths around self-care. Melissa helps us redefine self-care not as a luxury but as a necessary lifestyle, particularly for moms and working women who often find themselves at the bottom of their priority list.
Together, we unpack the essential tools for identifying your personal self-care needs and the critical importance of setting boundaries to maintain balance and be your best self in all aspects of life. Ever wondered what true self-care looks like? Think of it as a personal shoe shopping experience—trying on various activities until you find the perfect fit. We'll guide you through building a holistic self-care regimen that nourishes your mind, body, and spirit with activities like exercise, journaling, therapy, and mindfulness.
We also touch on the significance of evaluating your support network and the courage it takes to ask for help. Plus, learn when it might be time to seek professional help and how to start that journey. Tune in for a transformative conversation that promises to reframe how you prioritize yourself, complete with a powerful journal prompt to kickstart your self-care journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cindy Mendez (00:05):
hello, hello, welcome back to the let me
interrupt podcast.
And yes, I'm back to interruptyour daily routine with some
wisdom from our speakers, withsome banter, with just some
talking, a little break for youduring your week.
This season is going to beamazing and it's jam-packed with
(00:28):
guests and I'm so thankful tothose of you who are here to
listen to me.
This season it will just be meas your lead host.
We wish Melissa the absolutebest, but it's just going to be
you and I, our listener, justgoing on this ride.
(00:50):
We are rebranding.
As far as you know, a lot of ourcontent is always incorporating
a parenting or motherhoodcomponent, and so we're making
it official, I'm making itofficial, I'm making it official
.
I can't let go of the we.
I'm sorry I missed you, melissa, but it'll be.
(01:11):
When I say we, it's all of ourcommunity here.
So I am just so excited as amom.
You all might not know, but Ihave a three-year-old who is my
special little boy and runs mylife.
So I'm excited to incorporatesome of that parenting stuff
(01:32):
into our talks.
And don't worry, if you're nota parent or, you know, don't
want to be ever, that's okay.
We still have a lot of richcontent around being successful
in the workplace, being a womanin a workplace, and just some
raw conversations about being us.
(01:54):
And so why not kick off theepisode with Melissa Dumas, who
is a distinguished licensedmarriage and family therapist
with advanced training in EMDRand Reiki certification?
As a best-selling author,dynamic speaker, influential
life coach and the host of theHats podcast and we'll link that
(02:16):
below Melissa brings atransformational support for
high achievers who have made thedecision that nothing will stop
them from reaching theirhighest potential, including
their self-neglect and pasttrauma.
Melissa's holistic mindset andwhole life healing school
thought is her core focus inlending her support to high
(02:36):
achievers as they tackle thedaily pressures of personal and
professional life.
So, melissa, I'm going to giveyou a really tough question to
start out with, but it is goingto set the basis for the rest of
the season.
And so we have heard over andover again self-care.
You have to do it, but let'sstart at a very, very basic
(02:59):
level.
What is self-care and, fromyour perspective, how do we even
begin to incorporate that intoour lives?
Melissa Dumaz (03:10):
great question.
Um, you're right, self-care is,um, become quite the buzzword,
um, and some people may see itas like, oh, it's so cliche,
it's overused, we overhear itthat maybe even some people have
become numb to it.
They're like, I'm tired ofhearing about self-care.
But the reality is, likeanything that we hear that like
is like cliche or like abuzzword that it does have value
(03:32):
.
That that's why it's gainedsuch popularity, or that's why
it's gained such attention isbecause there is value to it,
and even though you may not begiving it value in your life, it
still has value.
So the big question is what isself care?
What exactly does that mean?
Self care is any and everythingthat you do to take care of
yourself, and some of themisconceptions about self care
(03:55):
is that some people think it'sexpensive, some people think
that self care is a luxury item,some people think that it's a
once in a while experience, orthey also think that they don't
have time for it.
And the truth is, self-care is away of life.
Some people may even say thatself-care is a lifestyle, and so
when you're making it a way oflife or making it a lifestyle,
(04:19):
then ultimately it becomessecond nature in the ways that
you take care of yourself and,ultimately, to know what
self-care means for you, becauseit that you take care of
yourself.
And, ultimately, to know whatself-care means for you, because
it's different for all of us.
It's also about knowingyourself, knowing what refills
your cup, knowing what puts youin a position mentally,
emotionally, physically so thatyou can show up as your most
optimal self.
Even when you think aboutgiving to other people, do you
(04:41):
want to give them a watered downversion of you, or do you want
to give them your optimal selfand people meaning friends,
family, your place of businessor your work or wherever you're
sharing parts of you?
And so if I'm taking the timeto pour back into myself, then I
can consistently flow orconsistently give a healthy
(05:03):
version of myself flow orconsistently give a healthy
version of myself.
Cindy Mendez (05:08):
And you know, what makes it difficult, too, is
there's often a price tag that'sadvertised when it comes to
every, every piece ofinformation that we get with
self-care right, like you haveto go get your nails done,
that's going to cost now youknow, depending on what you do
40 to 80 to a hundred to $200.
And so that, okay, I gotself-care and emotionally, but
like now, my wallet's depletedand that isn't helpful.
(05:32):
So can you talk to us a littlebit about the challenges that
you have seen?
Either moms or working women ingeneral are feeling.
That makes it difficult toidentify what that might be and
how to make time for themselves,to how to make time for
themselves with self-care.
Melissa Dumaz (05:53):
While self-care can come with a price tag, the
truth is it doesn't have to.
So, even knowing your limits,that's self-care.
Knowing what your boundariesare, that self-care.
And so what does that mean?
How do we identify what thoselimits are?
How do we learn those parts ofus?
A few things that come up for meare one I noticed that moms
(06:18):
that work is that we tend to putourselves last, and so we get
up and we're thinking about ourfamily or we're thinking about
our job or thinking about ourto-do list.
But if I were to ask you, orany working mom that's listening
, when is the last time youthought about yourself?
First?
We may hear silence.
(06:39):
We may hear think about my like, what, like I became a mom,
like I can't or I don't, or Iwork, like I can't think about
my like, what?
Like I became a mom, like Ican't or I don't, or I work like
I can't think about myself.
And the truth is, if you're notthinking about yourself, then
who is?
Because you're thinking aboutyour kids, you're thinking about
your partner, you're thinkingabout your job and, depending on
what type of job you have, theymay or may not be thinking
about you, but you're thinkingabout your job, because your job
(07:01):
is also part of your livelihoodand how you provide for your
family.
The other challenge that I'venoticed in working moms is they
don't see self-care as a me-tooopportunity, that sometimes they
think like, oh, if I dosomething for myself, or if I do
something for myself first,then that's selfish and it's
(07:23):
like no, self-care isn't selfish.
Self-care is a me toopportunity, and I'll use myself
as an example.
When I gained, I would say, alot of my weight not all of it,
but a but a nice amount of myweight was after pregnancy and I
was focused on getting lunchfor my children, and so I would
(07:44):
go into the kitchen and I'm like, okay, the kids have to eat,
and so I would make their lunch.
And then, when they're doneeating their lunch, I find
myself snacking on like theirleftover sandwich or their
leftover, like fruit and what Ilearned in order to pour back
into myself and to eat the mealthat puts me at my best optimal
health for my body.
While I'm in the kitchen makingtheir lunch, I'm also in the
(08:05):
kitchen making my lunch, and sothat is a me too opportunity.
While I'm in the kitchenpreparing a meal for them, I'm
also thinking okay, well, I wanta salad.
Well, you know what, let memake my salad first, so then I'm
not snacking on their foodwhich isn't on my eating plan or
my meal plan, so that I canfocus on nourishing myself and
pouring into my body.
And so two misconceptions, justto reiterate we're not thinking
(08:29):
about ourselves, or we're notputting ourselves on our to-do
list, or we're putting ourselveslast or not at all.
And then we're not seeingself-care as a me too
opportunity to include ourselvesas well as well.
Cindy Mendez (08:48):
Mom guilt yeah, you hit a nerve because I know
mom guilt and I'm sure a lot ofour listeners know mom guilt so
deeply.
There are times where I thinkone I probably need therapy.
But maybe I'm hoping someothers feel like this, where I
kind of see it what I have freetime, like I'm working.
Let's say there's a day I workeight hours, that is my me time
(09:12):
for working, and I have theafternoon I have free to me.
That I think okay, that time is100% for my son to me.
That I think okay, that time is100% for my son.
Because if it's not, like am I abad mom, like that I have the
free time and don't give it tohim.
Or if not, if my son is asleep,then it's time for me to be a
(09:46):
wife.
And so I want to give the freetime to my husband.
And it's very different.
I enjoy being with my husband,but it's very different than my
own personal space time.
And so that's me being a wiferole right, like, even if it's
sitting right next to each otherdoing something I would do by
myself.
Anyway, I'm still being a wife.
And then, finally, you know,when it's like 3am, everyone's
(10:07):
asleep, I'm by myself, that's me.
Time Like that is where I canfeel not guilty, not choked up,
because, you know, I'm nottaking time away from the baby,
the baby's sleeping, I'm nottaking time away from being a
wife, my husband's doingwhatever, and so at that time it
feels kind of like debilitatingand I feel withered and I'm
(10:31):
like fighting because now mybody's tired but I have to
squeeze in that moment of likejust scrolling through TikTok
and or doing audio books orwhatever, of just me.
But that is like a very brieftired moment and so it could be
really hard to strike thebalance.
(10:52):
I'm sure that others have it.
I know my husband, you knowsometimes I see him like, oh, I
got everything done and I wasable to like spend time, you
know, watching a show I wanted,and I don't know how he does it.
I don't know how their parentsdo it, but at least for me
(11:12):
that's not something that I'vemastered.
So you know I've said a lot.
Do you have anything to reflectupon based on that?
Melissa Dumaz (11:25):
I'm glad that you brought up the word guilt,
because mom guilt, dad guilt,parent guilt it's a real thing,
so I don't want to minimize itand I don't want to act like
it's not.
I think there are some keyquestions to ask ourselves when
we find that guilt coming up,and some of those key questions
are is my child safe?
Are they, is my child fed?
Are they protected?
(11:46):
Are they taken care of?
And if I, if we can answer yesto those things, then that can
help, hopefully help to move usfrom lessening or from
separating ourselves from theguilt that we feel about not
doing something or not doingsomething up to the standards of
, of who knows what, whosestandards, whose standards are
these?
Anyway, you know, it's our life, we get to choose the standards
(12:08):
that we set for ourselves.
And so, even if you're thinkinglike okay, I ate my lunch, my
child is fed, happy, well andhealthy, then like we're good.
And the other question we haveto ask ourselves, the other
thing that we have to thinkabout is if self-love says I
love you, then self-care saysprove it, prove it.
It's in your actions, it's inthe things that you do to show
(12:30):
up and to say that I love me andI think a lot of times we
grapple with like doingsomething for ourselves means
that we're taking away from ourfamily or from our children or
from our work, but the truth isdoing something for ourselves.
We're investing back to be ableto have the energy, the
wherewithal, the capacity to beable to show up for our partners
(12:53):
, to show up for our children,to show up for our work.
It's like putting gas in thecar.
If you don't have any gas inthe car, or if you haven't
charged your car if you have anEV, guess where you're going?
Nowhere.
Cindy Mendez (13:04):
And that's powerful, you know, of course
you know, but for our listeners,I hope you're still putting
yourselves together here,because I know I could be on the
edge of tears at any moment.
But as we kind of transitionhere, can you share some
practical self-care tips that umwomen can take, or anybody um,
(13:30):
but somewhere where we canstrike a balance and and find
where our middle point is whenit comes to filling our cup um
and also doing what is requiredand expected of us?
Melissa Dumaz (13:47):
Absolutely.
The first thing that comes tomind is I think it's important
for us to eliminate the wordbalance.
Balance gives us thisunderstanding that things have
to be equal or that we have toget to like some sort of
equilibrium, when the truth is,life can get crazy and sometimes
(14:08):
work is going to need more ofus, sometimes we're going to
need more of ourselves,sometimes our partner's going to
need more of us, sometimes ourfamily's going to need more of
us or our children, and so howcan we find harmony in all the
ways that we are spreadingourselves or that we are sharing
ourselves with other people?
Because even on the day that,like work or your partner may
need more of you, does that meanthat you give less of yourself?
(14:32):
No, not necessarily.
That means what can I givemyself in this moment so that I
can create some harmony for theamount of me that I have to give
away or that I'm not givingaway, but that I'm sharing with
work and other spaces.
So the first point iseliminating or replacing that
word balance with harmony, andharmony is more about creating
this peace, and balance is moreabout creating equilibrium or
(14:56):
equality, and in some ways,things are not equal in the ways
that we're showing up, in theways that we're sharing
ourselves, but if we can findharmony in the way that we're
showing up, in the ways thatwe're sharing ourselves, but if
we can find harmony in the waythat we're showing up, in the
ways that we sharing, sharingourselves, and that gives us
some sense of peace about all ofthese hats that we wear.
The other thing, in regards tohow do we identify what is our
self-care?
Like what?
What do I like to do?
What fills my cup?
(15:17):
I look at self-care andself-care tools as like shoe
shopping and I use that visualbecause I like shoe shopping.
I don't know if everyone elsedoes.
So use any visual that you like.
If you like produce shopping,then use that.
But you know, yeah, I like shoeshopping and when I go shoe
shopping I will try a shoe on,like I'll walk the aisles and
see what catches my eye.
(15:38):
If I'm not shopping off of like, hey, I need a tennis shoe or I
need a heel, I'm just leisurelyshopping I'll try a shoe on,
I'll look at it and then, whenyou try it on, you may go to the
mirror, you may walk in it, youmay look around or you may even
visualize, like what outfit doI have in my closet that this is
gonna be nice with?
And so self-care is the same.
Pick one from a list or fromother suggestions that you or
(16:01):
ideas that you have, or thingsthat you've seen other people
try and try it on.
You don't really know if it'syour thing or if it's going to
fit or pair with your life untilyou try it on.
And when I say try it on, thatdoesn't mean like yeah, I did it
one time and it's not my thing.
Sometimes we can do somethingone time and it's not our thing.
But if you're still like I'mnot really sure about it, then
(16:22):
try it a couple times before youdecide to give up on it.
And when we are looking at whatis helpful for our self-care,
it's also important to identifywhat are the things that are
helpful for my mind, body andspirit.
Self-care isn't just onedimensional.
It is also about taking care ofall the parts of us, and we all
have many parts of us and partsof us that need to be fed.
(16:42):
Like self-care for your bodymay be a specific diet or it may
be a specific movement, likeyou may like walking or hiking
Self-care for your mind may bejournaling or therapy or
affirmations.
Self-care for your spirit maybe prayer or yoga or mindfulness
, or retreats or vacations.
(17:03):
It just depends on what are thethings that fill your spirit.
And self-care also for yourmind, body and spirit.
Maybe, like we said earlier,setting those boundaries,
communicating your needs, sayingno when you wanna say no, not
saying yes when you really wannasay no.
All those things go into theself-care buckets.
Cindy Mendez (17:21):
Now, thanks for breaking that down.
A part of this that I'm alsointerested in is support.
You know, who do we have aroundourselves to help, and how can
we determine what is a goodsupport system?
You know, sometimes the peoplethat are meant to be the pillars
(17:46):
are not, and so can you give usyour thoughts around the best
way to analyze our supportsystem, and are you in that,
knowing if you're in thatoptimal space that best suits
you and your wellbeing.
Melissa Dumaz (18:04):
That is another question that starts with you.
Does it feel like they'retaking more than what you can
give?
Does it feel like you're in asupport system where you are
pouring, pouring, pouring, butno one's pouring back into you?
Does it feel like that you're agiver surrounded by takers?
Does it feel like you are thequote strong friend that's
always showing up for everybodyelse but no one shows up for you
(18:27):
?
Does it feel like you are thegood listener, so everyone calls
you to dump on you, but theydon't listen to you when you
need someone to talk to, and sothat is doing a assessment of
your circle and identifying that.
The other thing, too, is beingopen to being vulnerable and
asking for help, becausesometimes we have circles that
(18:48):
were surrounded by people thatwould love to help us but
they're like oh, cindy's got itall together, like she goes to
work, she handles her family,she has a podcast, like she
doesn't need my help or I don'tsee where she needs me, but I
need her.
And we haven't openly,vulnerably, authentically shared
with our circle or someone inour circle to say, like you know
(19:09):
what I really need help with X,y and Z.
So being open to asking for thathelp before we decide that our
current circle or currentcommunity is not willing to or
not capable of.
Once we have solicited for thathelp and given them a chance to
show up for us and they areshowing us that they can't or
they're not willing to or don'thave the capacity, then we can
(19:30):
start exploring outside of that,like okay, well, maybe I need
to explore some other supportnetworks, whether that's through
mommy groups or professionalorganizations that we want to
belong to, or clubs ormemberships, or soliciting for
other people that enjoy doingthe things that you want to
belong to, or clubs ormemberships, or soliciting for
other people that enjoy doingthe things that you like to do,
like, if you like hiking, maybethere's a hiking group that you
can join or be a part of.
If you like retreats, maybethere's a group who loves a
(19:53):
vacation that you can be a partof.
Cindy Mendez (19:56):
You know, melissa, I'm someone who lives in denial
a lot of the time, and I liketo think others do too.
So for our listeners, how canthey begin to identify a point
where they realize they needhelp?
What are some signs or thoughtsthat may be happening, that may
(20:25):
be enable that red flag to beraised and for someone to look
for help and what that helpcould look like, even just to
start out?
Melissa Dumaz (20:30):
with.
That's a great question.
If you are thinking maybe Ineed some help, then maybe you
do.
Or if you have tried thecurrent tools in your toolbox
and you find that they are nolonger effective or no longer
working, that maybe now it'stime.
If you're also being challengedwith, like man, there's this
thing that keeps coming up forme and as much as I try to like,
(20:51):
work it away, eat it away, prayit away, live it away, it's not
going away.
It's still like it's followingme or it's still haunting me.
That may be a sign.
Or even if there's somethingthat you've committed to like
you know what I'm never going totalk about this, I'm going to
put it into a chest and throw itinto the depths of the sea Then
that means it's time to starttalking to someone.
(21:12):
And even if, like I said at thebeginning of the section, even
if you've had that thought, like, is it time, I think that's
enough to say it's time Because,at the very least, if you're
choosing to talk to aprofessional, you get an
opportunity for a consultation,and most professionals will
offer a complimentaryconsultation.
And so, in that consultation,doing your research, that can
(21:32):
help to answer some of thosequestions on like do I want to
speak to someone professionallyor are there still some tools in
my toolbox that I haven'texplored that I want to explore
myself?
Or are there still some toolsin my toolbox that I haven't
explored that I want to explore?
Cindy Mendez (21:41):
myself and you know someone who got their
undergrad in psychology and dida little bit of community work,
one of the biggest things Ilearned was that you don't go to
therapy or counseling to getthe answers to your questions
and it's done.
So I love that you use toolbox,because I like to think of it
(22:06):
like this you get the shovel,you provide the hammers, like
you, the counselor or thetherapist provides those tools,
and it is the patient, or us,that needs to do the digging get
in that dirt and dig that,ditch and bury out.
You know those things that youneed to find and work on, and
(22:30):
that can be daunting, it's scary, especially when you know what
may be laying there and you'renot ready to embrace it.
What may be laying there andyou're not ready to embrace it.
So so I do appreciate that youlisted it off as preparing a
toolbox, but at the end of theday, you know you are the main
character in your life and soyou are the one that needs to do
(22:55):
it.
Melissa Dumaz (22:56):
Yeah and that's such a good, good way to put it
the work that you as a maincharacter need to do.
But also when we think aboutthe main character, the main
character has supporting actorsand the main character has
direction from the director orfrom the writers environment
(23:23):
even if that is from a paidcoach or paid therapist that
when you're connected with theright person, that work.
It may feel daunting at firstbecause it's like, shoot, I have
to do this.
But when you're with the rightsupport, they're going to help
you to carry that load.
They can't carry it for you,like you said, cindy, but they
can help to support you.
And one of the visuals that Igive clients is that, like my
role is, I can be in differentplaces throughout your healing
journey.
My role may be me in thebeginning, walking in front of
(23:46):
you as I'm like guiding you downthis path, but at some point my
role may be walking next to youand at some point my role may
be walking behind you as you'releading yourself, ultimately
getting you to a place where myrole is to respectfully get
fired, to put you in a positionwhere you no longer need me or
my services.
Cindy Mendez (24:09):
So I love that you put it like that.
You know your job.
That's probably one of the fewjobs where you want to get fired
.
Right, you want to aim to belet go, but with that, I want to
give you an even hard.
You gave us a task, I'll giveyou a harder task here.
So, as part of the show, wealways end with some type of a
(24:33):
gem or a takeaway point for ourlisteners, and I want to ask you
listeners, and I want to askyou, what would that be here
from this conversation if theyheard nothing at all?
Um, what would be somethingthat you want our listeners to
acknowledge or have as theirpoint of gem.
Melissa Dumaz (24:54):
It would be a question, and that question can
be a journal prompt, and thatquestion is if I asked you to
make a list of the things thatyou love, to make a list of the
things that you prioritize, howlong would it take you to add
yourself to that list, based onwhere you put yourself, or even
if at all?
That gives you all the answersyou need to know.
Cindy Mendez (25:18):
And that's a great exercise.
You need to know and that's agreat exercise.
I have to say that you're right.
You know that I would not bethe first one on that list, but
that's goes to show how muchwork there is, and I know a lot
(25:43):
of the moms here.
You know we weren't given aguide.
Maybe some of us were, but we Iwasn't, certainly, and the one
that I was provided it's out ofdate.
I think this really helps us toprioritize and and get our
feelings in order.
Melissa Dumaz (25:54):
Absolutely, and I know that, like you know, some
people grapple with that.
Like me first.
Like I got a whole family, Ihave a job, I have a this, I
have a that, but we never.
If you've ever gone on a flightor taken an airplane, we never
question the, the flightattendant or the video that
comes on that says in the eventsthat you need to use your mask,
(26:15):
put yours on first and thenhelp the person next to you.
Like we never questioned that,we never said like well, why?
would I do that?
Why wouldn't I put theirs onfirst?
We say, okay, like that's theorder, my mask on first and then
helping the people next to me,even if the people next to me is
my child, my partner.
It specifically says put yourmask on first and secure it and
then help the people next to you.
(26:36):
Use that same model in yourlife and how you take care of
yourself.
You.
Cindy Mendez (26:40):
Use that same model in your, in your life and
how you take care of yourself.
That's fantastic and really, towrap up here, I'm going to open
up the floor to you and let usknow what you are doing with
your practice and the servicesthat you offer, just so our
listeners can get ahold of youif needed, or or listen to your
amazing podcast hold of you ifneeded or or listen to your
(27:03):
amazing podcast.
Melissa Dumaz (27:04):
I am a licensed marriage and family therapist.
I focus on helping people toprocess or to reprocess their
trauma.
I am specifically trained in avery specific model called EMDR,
which stands for eye movement,desensitization, reprocessing.
It's a very research, tried andtrue, powerful technique to
help clients reprocess theirtrauma without always having to
talk about the details of theirtrauma, and so while I am
(27:28):
licensed in California, I havehad clients to come visit me out
of state that said you knowwhat I want to work with you or
I want specifically that service.
But then I also offer coachingservices, and coaching is not
state, is not based on a state.
Coaching I can do nationwide,but therapy I can only do for
those who are in California,rather in person or virtual.
(27:50):
I am a mom of three, I ammarried.
My husband and I will becelebrating 14 years this year.
I have a podcast as well,called the hats podcast, which
is a space for ambitious womento come and to learn how to
manage all the hats that theywear Today.
We've been talking aboutmotherhood and working and
having a partner like and takingcare of yourself.
(28:10):
How do we manage all of thosehats.
And then I also have a bookcalled the love challenge, which
is a book for ambitious peoplewho have the tendency to neglect
their relationship, because ifwe're neglecting ourselves,
we're probably also neglectingour relationship as well.
So it just gives little tips onhow to create harmony in your
life and in your relationshipsand pour back into each other.
I'm also certified in Reiki, soI do some holistic healing and
(28:35):
wellness, and I do localholistic healing and wellness
events and corporate webinars.
So I myself wear a lot of hatstoo.
Cindy Mendez (28:43):
And we're going to put all those links below for
our listeners.
Thank you for tuning in to thefirst episode of many.
I promise Make sure you aresubscribed on Spotify or Apple
podcast.
I know that Google outdated us,so now it's just YouTube, but
(29:06):
go subscribe to your YouTube aswell.
That's where the audio andvideo version is available, and
I'm just so excited.
You have to look at my newsetup.
You may guess what book I gotinto from it.
Shout out to a coworker whorecommended that, but I'm just
so happy to have had Melissahere as our first guest and I
(29:33):
hope that you check out herpodcast and continue to
subscribe to ours.
And continue to subscribe toours and I will continue to
burst out these episodes tointerrupt your daily grind, and
I just am so happy to be back.
So till later, keepinterrupting.
hello, hello, welcome back to the let me
interrupt podcast.
And yes, I'm back to interruptyour daily routine with some
wisdom from our speakers, withsome banter, with just some
talking, a little break for youduring your week.
This season is going to beamazing and it's jam-packed with
(00:28):
guests and I'm so thankful tothose of you who are here to
listen to me.
This season it will just be meas your lead host.
We wish Melissa the absolutebest, but it's just going to be
you and I, our listener, justgoing on this ride.
(00:50):
We are rebranding.
As far as you know, a lot of ourcontent is always incorporating
a parenting or motherhoodcomponent, and so we're making
it official, I'm making itofficial, I'm making it official
.
I can't let go of the we.
I'm sorry I missed you, melissa, but it'll be.
(01:11):
When I say we, it's all of ourcommunity here.
So I am just so excited as amom.
You all might not know, but Ihave a three-year-old who is my
special little boy and runs mylife.
So I'm excited to incorporatesome of that parenting stuff
(01:32):
into our talks.
And don't worry, if you're nota parent or, you know, don't
want to be ever, that's okay.
We still have a lot of richcontent around being successful
in the workplace, being a womanin a workplace, and just some
raw conversations about being us.
(01:54):
And so why not kick off theepisode with Melissa Dumas, who
is a distinguished licensedmarriage and family therapist
with advanced training in EMDRand Reiki certification?
As a best-selling author,dynamic speaker, influential
life coach and the host of theHats podcast and we'll link that
(02:16):
below Melissa brings atransformational support for
high achievers who have made thedecision that nothing will stop
them from reaching theirhighest potential, including
their self-neglect and pasttrauma.
Melissa's holistic mindset andwhole life healing school
thought is her core focus inlending her support to high
(02:36):
achievers as they tackle thedaily pressures of personal and
professional life.
So, melissa, I'm going to giveyou a really tough question to
start out with, but it is goingto set the basis for the rest of
the season.
And so we have heard over andover again self-care.
You have to do it, but let'sstart at a very, very basic
(02:59):
level.
What is self-care and, fromyour perspective, how do we even
begin to incorporate that intoour lives?
Melissa Dumaz (03:10):
great question.
Um, you're right, self-care is,um, become quite the buzzword,
um, and some people may see itas like, oh, it's so cliche,
it's overused, we overhear itthat maybe even some people have
become numb to it.
They're like, I'm tired ofhearing about self-care.
But the reality is, likeanything that we hear that like
is like cliche or like abuzzword that it does have value
(03:32):
.
That that's why it's gainedsuch popularity, or that's why
it's gained such attention isbecause there is value to it,
and even though you may not begiving it value in your life, it
still has value.
So the big question is what isself care?
What exactly does that mean?
Self care is any and everythingthat you do to take care of
yourself, and some of themisconceptions about self care
(03:55):
is that some people think it'sexpensive, some people think
that self care is a luxury item,some people think that it's a
once in a while experience, orthey also think that they don't
have time for it.
And the truth is, self-care is away of life.
Some people may even say thatself-care is a lifestyle, and so
when you're making it a way oflife or making it a lifestyle,
(04:19):
then ultimately it becomessecond nature in the ways that
you take care of yourself and,ultimately, to know what
self-care means for you, becauseit that you take care of
yourself.
And, ultimately, to know whatself-care means for you, because
it's different for all of us.
It's also about knowingyourself, knowing what refills
your cup, knowing what puts youin a position mentally,
emotionally, physically so thatyou can show up as your most
optimal self.
Even when you think aboutgiving to other people, do you
(04:41):
want to give them a watered downversion of you, or do you want
to give them your optimal selfand people meaning friends,
family, your place of businessor your work or wherever you're
sharing parts of you?
And so if I'm taking the timeto pour back into myself, then I
can consistently flow orconsistently give a healthy
(05:03):
version of myself flow orconsistently give a healthy
version of myself.
Cindy Mendez (05:08):
And you know, what makes it difficult, too, is
there's often a price tag that'sadvertised when it comes to
every, every piece ofinformation that we get with
self-care right, like you haveto go get your nails done,
that's going to cost now youknow, depending on what you do
40 to 80 to a hundred to $200.
And so that, okay, I gotself-care and emotionally, but
like now, my wallet's depletedand that isn't helpful.
(05:32):
So can you talk to us a littlebit about the challenges that
you have seen?
Either moms or working women ingeneral are feeling.
That makes it difficult toidentify what that might be and
how to make time for themselves,to how to make time for
themselves with self-care.
Melissa Dumaz (05:53):
While self-care can come with a price tag, the
truth is it doesn't have to.
So, even knowing your limits,that's self-care.
Knowing what your boundariesare, that self-care.
And so what does that mean?
How do we identify what thoselimits are?
How do we learn those parts ofus?
A few things that come up for meare one I noticed that moms
(06:18):
that work is that we tend to putourselves last, and so we get
up and we're thinking about ourfamily or we're thinking about
our job or thinking about ourto-do list.
But if I were to ask you, orany working mom that's listening
, when is the last time youthought about yourself?
First?
We may hear silence.
(06:39):
We may hear think about my like, what, like I became a mom,
like I can't or I don't, or Iwork, like I can't think about
my like, what?
Like I became a mom, like Ican't or I don't, or I work like
I can't think about myself.
And the truth is, if you're notthinking about yourself, then
who is?
Because you're thinking aboutyour kids, you're thinking about
your partner, you're thinkingabout your job and, depending on
what type of job you have, theymay or may not be thinking
about you, but you're thinkingabout your job, because your job
(07:01):
is also part of your livelihoodand how you provide for your
family.
The other challenge that I'venoticed in working moms is they
don't see self-care as a me-tooopportunity, that sometimes they
think like, oh, if I dosomething for myself, or if I do
something for myself first,then that's selfish and it's
(07:23):
like no, self-care isn't selfish.
Self-care is a me toopportunity, and I'll use myself
as an example.
When I gained, I would say, alot of my weight not all of it,
but a but a nice amount of myweight was after pregnancy and I
was focused on getting lunchfor my children, and so I would
(07:44):
go into the kitchen and I'm like, okay, the kids have to eat,
and so I would make their lunch.
And then, when they're doneeating their lunch, I find
myself snacking on like theirleftover sandwich or their
leftover, like fruit and what Ilearned in order to pour back
into myself and to eat the mealthat puts me at my best optimal
health for my body.
While I'm in the kitchen makingtheir lunch, I'm also in the
(08:05):
kitchen making my lunch, and sothat is a me too opportunity.
While I'm in the kitchenpreparing a meal for them, I'm
also thinking okay, well, I wanta salad.
Well, you know what, let memake my salad first, so then I'm
not snacking on their foodwhich isn't on my eating plan or
my meal plan, so that I canfocus on nourishing myself and
pouring into my body.
And so two misconceptions, justto reiterate we're not thinking
(08:29):
about ourselves, or we're notputting ourselves on our to-do
list, or we're putting ourselveslast or not at all.
And then we're not seeingself-care as a me too
opportunity to include ourselvesas well as well.
Cindy Mendez (08:48):
Mom guilt yeah, you hit a nerve because I know
mom guilt and I'm sure a lot ofour listeners know mom guilt so
deeply.
There are times where I thinkone I probably need therapy.
But maybe I'm hoping someothers feel like this, where I
kind of see it what I have freetime, like I'm working.
Let's say there's a day I workeight hours, that is my me time
(09:12):
for working, and I have theafternoon I have free to me.
That I think okay, that time is100% for my son to me.
That I think okay, that time is100% for my son.
Because if it's not, like am I abad mom, like that I have the
free time and don't give it tohim.
Or if not, if my son is asleep,then it's time for me to be a
(09:46):
wife.
And so I want to give the freetime to my husband.
And it's very different.
I enjoy being with my husband,but it's very different than my
own personal space time.
And so that's me being a wiferole right, like, even if it's
sitting right next to each otherdoing something I would do by
myself.
Anyway, I'm still being a wife.
And then, finally, you know,when it's like 3am, everyone's
(10:07):
asleep, I'm by myself, that's me.
Time Like that is where I canfeel not guilty, not choked up,
because, you know, I'm nottaking time away from the baby,
the baby's sleeping, I'm nottaking time away from being a
wife, my husband's doingwhatever, and so at that time it
feels kind of like debilitatingand I feel withered and I'm
(10:31):
like fighting because now mybody's tired but I have to
squeeze in that moment of likejust scrolling through TikTok
and or doing audio books orwhatever, of just me.
But that is like a very brieftired moment and so it could be
really hard to strike thebalance.
(10:52):
I'm sure that others have it.
I know my husband, you knowsometimes I see him like, oh, I
got everything done and I wasable to like spend time, you
know, watching a show I wanted,and I don't know how he does it.
I don't know how their parentsdo it, but at least for me
(11:12):
that's not something that I'vemastered.
So you know I've said a lot.
Do you have anything to reflectupon based on that?
Melissa Dumaz (11:25):
I'm glad that you brought up the word guilt,
because mom guilt, dad guilt,parent guilt it's a real thing,
so I don't want to minimize itand I don't want to act like
it's not.
I think there are some keyquestions to ask ourselves when
we find that guilt coming up,and some of those key questions
are is my child safe?
Are they, is my child fed?
Are they protected?
(11:46):
Are they taken care of?
And if I, if we can answer yesto those things, then that can
help, hopefully help to move usfrom lessening or from
separating ourselves from theguilt that we feel about not
doing something or not doingsomething up to the standards of
, of who knows what, whosestandards, whose standards are
these?
Anyway, you know, it's our life, we get to choose the standards
(12:08):
that we set for ourselves.
And so, even if you're thinkinglike okay, I ate my lunch, my
child is fed, happy, well andhealthy, then like we're good.
And the other question we haveto ask ourselves, the other
thing that we have to thinkabout is if self-love says I
love you, then self-care saysprove it, prove it.
It's in your actions, it's inthe things that you do to show
(12:30):
up and to say that I love me andI think a lot of times we
grapple with like doingsomething for ourselves means
that we're taking away from ourfamily or from our children or
from our work, but the truth isdoing something for ourselves.
We're investing back to be ableto have the energy, the
wherewithal, the capacity to beable to show up for our partners
(12:53):
, to show up for our children,to show up for our work.
It's like putting gas in thecar.
If you don't have any gas inthe car, or if you haven't
charged your car if you have anEV, guess where you're going?
Nowhere.
Cindy Mendez (13:04):
And that's powerful, you know, of course
you know, but for our listeners,I hope you're still putting
yourselves together here,because I know I could be on the
edge of tears at any moment.
But as we kind of transitionhere, can you share some
practical self-care tips that umwomen can take, or anybody um,
(13:30):
but somewhere where we canstrike a balance and and find
where our middle point is whenit comes to filling our cup um
and also doing what is requiredand expected of us?
Melissa Dumaz (13:47):
Absolutely.
The first thing that comes tomind is I think it's important
for us to eliminate the wordbalance.
Balance gives us thisunderstanding that things have
to be equal or that we have toget to like some sort of
equilibrium, when the truth is,life can get crazy and sometimes
(14:08):
work is going to need more ofus, sometimes we're going to
need more of ourselves,sometimes our partner's going to
need more of us, sometimes ourfamily's going to need more of
us or our children, and so howcan we find harmony in all the
ways that we are spreadingourselves or that we are sharing
ourselves with other people?
Because even on the day that,like work or your partner may
need more of you, does that meanthat you give less of yourself?
(14:32):
No, not necessarily.
That means what can I givemyself in this moment so that I
can create some harmony for theamount of me that I have to give
away or that I'm not givingaway, but that I'm sharing with
work and other spaces.
So the first point iseliminating or replacing that
word balance with harmony, andharmony is more about creating
this peace, and balance is moreabout creating equilibrium or
(14:56):
equality, and in some ways,things are not equal in the ways
that we're showing up, in theways that we're sharing
ourselves, but if we can findharmony in the way that we're
showing up, in the ways thatwe're sharing ourselves, but if
we can find harmony in the waythat we're showing up, in the
ways that we sharing, sharingourselves, and that gives us
some sense of peace about all ofthese hats that we wear.
The other thing, in regards tohow do we identify what is our
self-care?
Like what?
What do I like to do?
What fills my cup?
(15:17):
I look at self-care andself-care tools as like shoe
shopping and I use that visualbecause I like shoe shopping.
I don't know if everyone elsedoes.
So use any visual that you like.
If you like produce shopping,then use that.
But you know, yeah, I like shoeshopping and when I go shoe
shopping I will try a shoe on,like I'll walk the aisles and
see what catches my eye.
(15:38):
If I'm not shopping off of like, hey, I need a tennis shoe or I
need a heel, I'm just leisurelyshopping I'll try a shoe on,
I'll look at it and then, whenyou try it on, you may go to the
mirror, you may walk in it, youmay look around or you may even
visualize, like what outfit doI have in my closet that this is
gonna be nice with?
And so self-care is the same.
Pick one from a list or fromother suggestions that you or
(16:01):
ideas that you have, or thingsthat you've seen other people
try and try it on.
You don't really know if it'syour thing or if it's going to
fit or pair with your life untilyou try it on.
And when I say try it on, thatdoesn't mean like yeah, I did it
one time and it's not my thing.
Sometimes we can do somethingone time and it's not our thing.
But if you're still like I'mnot really sure about it, then
(16:22):
try it a couple times before youdecide to give up on it.
And when we are looking at whatis helpful for our self-care,
it's also important to identifywhat are the things that are
helpful for my mind, body andspirit.
Self-care isn't just onedimensional.
It is also about taking care ofall the parts of us, and we all
have many parts of us and partsof us that need to be fed.
(16:42):
Like self-care for your bodymay be a specific diet or it may
be a specific movement, likeyou may like walking or hiking
Self-care for your mind may bejournaling or therapy or
affirmations.
Self-care for your spirit maybe prayer or yoga or mindfulness
, or retreats or vacations.
(17:03):
It just depends on what are thethings that fill your spirit.
And self-care also for yourmind, body and spirit.
Maybe, like we said earlier,setting those boundaries,
communicating your needs, sayingno when you wanna say no, not
saying yes when you really wannasay no.
All those things go into theself-care buckets.
Cindy Mendez (17:21):
Now, thanks for breaking that down.
A part of this that I'm alsointerested in is support.
You know, who do we have aroundourselves to help, and how can
we determine what is a goodsupport system?
You know, sometimes the peoplethat are meant to be the pillars
(17:46):
are not, and so can you give usyour thoughts around the best
way to analyze our supportsystem, and are you in that,
knowing if you're in thatoptimal space that best suits
you and your wellbeing.
Melissa Dumaz (18:04):
That is another question that starts with you.
Does it feel like they'retaking more than what you can
give?
Does it feel like you're in asupport system where you are
pouring, pouring, pouring, butno one's pouring back into you?
Does it feel like that you're agiver surrounded by takers?
Does it feel like you are thequote strong friend that's
always showing up for everybodyelse but no one shows up for you
(18:27):
?
Does it feel like you are thegood listener, so everyone calls
you to dump on you, but theydon't listen to you when you
need someone to talk to, and sothat is doing a assessment of
your circle and identifying that.
The other thing, too, is beingopen to being vulnerable and
asking for help, becausesometimes we have circles that
(18:48):
were surrounded by people thatwould love to help us but
they're like oh, cindy's got itall together, like she goes to
work, she handles her family,she has a podcast, like she
doesn't need my help or I don'tsee where she needs me, but I
need her.
And we haven't openly,vulnerably, authentically shared
with our circle or someone inour circle to say, like you know
(19:09):
what I really need help with X,y and Z.
So being open to asking for thathelp before we decide that our
current circle or currentcommunity is not willing to or
not capable of.
Once we have solicited for thathelp and given them a chance to
show up for us and they areshowing us that they can't or
they're not willing to or don'thave the capacity, then we can
(19:30):
start exploring outside of that,like okay, well, maybe I need
to explore some other supportnetworks, whether that's through
mommy groups or professionalorganizations that we want to
belong to, or clubs ormemberships, or soliciting for
other people that enjoy doingthe things that you want to
belong to, or clubs ormemberships, or soliciting for
other people that enjoy doingthe things that you like to do,
like, if you like hiking, maybethere's a hiking group that you
can join or be a part of.
If you like retreats, maybethere's a group who loves a
(19:53):
vacation that you can be a partof.
Cindy Mendez (19:56):
You know, melissa, I'm someone who lives in denial
a lot of the time, and I liketo think others do too.
So for our listeners, how canthey begin to identify a point
where they realize they needhelp?
What are some signs or thoughtsthat may be happening, that may
(20:25):
be enable that red flag to beraised and for someone to look
for help and what that helpcould look like, even just to
start out?
Melissa Dumaz (20:30):
with.
That's a great question.
If you are thinking maybe Ineed some help, then maybe you
do.
Or if you have tried thecurrent tools in your toolbox
and you find that they are nolonger effective or no longer
working, that maybe now it'stime.
If you're also being challengedwith, like man, there's this
thing that keeps coming up forme and as much as I try to like,
(20:51):
work it away, eat it away, prayit away, live it away, it's not
going away.
It's still like it's followingme or it's still haunting me.
That may be a sign.
Or even if there's somethingthat you've committed to like
you know what I'm never going totalk about this, I'm going to
put it into a chest and throw itinto the depths of the sea Then
that means it's time to starttalking to someone.
(21:12):
And even if, like I said at thebeginning of the section, even
if you've had that thought, like, is it time, I think that's
enough to say it's time Because,at the very least, if you're
choosing to talk to aprofessional, you get an
opportunity for a consultation,and most professionals will
offer a complimentaryconsultation.
And so, in that consultation,doing your research, that can
(21:32):
help to answer some of thosequestions on like do I want to
speak to someone professionallyor are there still some tools in
my toolbox that I haven'texplored that I want to explore
myself?
Or are there still some toolsin my toolbox that I haven't
explored that I want to explore?
Cindy Mendez (21:41):
myself and you know someone who got their
undergrad in psychology and dida little bit of community work,
one of the biggest things Ilearned was that you don't go to
therapy or counseling to getthe answers to your questions
and it's done.
So I love that you use toolbox,because I like to think of it
(22:06):
like this you get the shovel,you provide the hammers, like
you, the counselor or thetherapist provides those tools,
and it is the patient, or us,that needs to do the digging get
in that dirt and dig that,ditch and bury out.
You know those things that youneed to find and work on, and
(22:30):
that can be daunting, it's scary, especially when you know what
may be laying there and you'renot ready to embrace it.
What may be laying there andyou're not ready to embrace it.
So so I do appreciate that youlisted it off as preparing a
toolbox, but at the end of theday, you know you are the main
character in your life and soyou are the one that needs to do
(22:55):
it.
Melissa Dumaz (22:56):
Yeah and that's such a good, good way to put it
the work that you as a maincharacter need to do.
But also when we think aboutthe main character, the main
character has supporting actorsand the main character has
direction from the director orfrom the writers environment
(23:23):
even if that is from a paidcoach or paid therapist that
when you're connected with theright person, that work.
It may feel daunting at firstbecause it's like, shoot, I have
to do this.
But when you're with the rightsupport, they're going to help
you to carry that load.
They can't carry it for you,like you said, cindy, but they
can help to support you.
And one of the visuals that Igive clients is that, like my
role is, I can be in differentplaces throughout your healing
journey.
My role may be me in thebeginning, walking in front of
(23:46):
you as I'm like guiding you downthis path, but at some point my
role may be walking next to youand at some point my role may
be walking behind you as you'releading yourself, ultimately
getting you to a place where myrole is to respectfully get
fired, to put you in a positionwhere you no longer need me or
my services.
Cindy Mendez (24:09):
So I love that you put it like that.
You know your job.
That's probably one of the fewjobs where you want to get fired
.
Right, you want to aim to belet go, but with that, I want to
give you an even hard.
You gave us a task, I'll giveyou a harder task here.
So, as part of the show, wealways end with some type of a
(24:33):
gem or a takeaway point for ourlisteners, and I want to ask you
listeners, and I want to askyou, what would that be here
from this conversation if theyheard nothing at all?
Um, what would be somethingthat you want our listeners to
acknowledge or have as theirpoint of gem.
Melissa Dumaz (24:54):
It would be a question, and that question can
be a journal prompt, and thatquestion is if I asked you to
make a list of the things thatyou love, to make a list of the
things that you prioritize, howlong would it take you to add
yourself to that list, based onwhere you put yourself, or even
if at all?
That gives you all the answersyou need to know.
Cindy Mendez (25:18):
And that's a great exercise.
You need to know and that's agreat exercise.
I have to say that you're right.
You know that I would not bethe first one on that list, but
that's goes to show how muchwork there is, and I know a lot
(25:43):
of the moms here.
You know we weren't given aguide.
Maybe some of us were, but we Iwasn't, certainly, and the one
that I was provided it's out ofdate.
I think this really helps us toprioritize and and get our
feelings in order.
Melissa Dumaz (25:54):
Absolutely, and I know that, like you know, some
people grapple with that.
Like me first.
Like I got a whole family, Ihave a job, I have a this, I
have a that, but we never.
If you've ever gone on a flightor taken an airplane, we never
question the, the flightattendant or the video that
comes on that says in the eventsthat you need to use your mask,
(26:15):
put yours on first and thenhelp the person next to you.
Like we never questioned that,we never said like well, why?
would I do that?
Why wouldn't I put theirs onfirst?
We say, okay, like that's theorder, my mask on first and then
helping the people next to me,even if the people next to me is
my child, my partner.
It specifically says put yourmask on first and secure it and
then help the people next to you.
(26:36):
Use that same model in yourlife and how you take care of
yourself.
You.
Cindy Mendez (26:40):
Use that same model in your, in your life and
how you take care of yourself.
That's fantastic and really, towrap up here, I'm going to open
up the floor to you and let usknow what you are doing with
your practice and the servicesthat you offer, just so our
listeners can get ahold of youif needed, or or listen to your
amazing podcast hold of you ifneeded or or listen to your
(27:03):
amazing podcast.
Melissa Dumaz (27:04):
I am a licensed marriage and family therapist.
I focus on helping people toprocess or to reprocess their
trauma.
I am specifically trained in avery specific model called EMDR,
which stands for eye movement,desensitization, reprocessing.
It's a very research, tried andtrue, powerful technique to
help clients reprocess theirtrauma without always having to
talk about the details of theirtrauma, and so while I am
(27:28):
licensed in California, I havehad clients to come visit me out
of state that said you knowwhat I want to work with you or
I want specifically that service.
But then I also offer coachingservices, and coaching is not
state, is not based on a state.
Coaching I can do nationwide,but therapy I can only do for
those who are in California,rather in person or virtual.
(27:50):
I am a mom of three, I ammarried.
My husband and I will becelebrating 14 years this year.
I have a podcast as well,called the hats podcast, which
is a space for ambitious womento come and to learn how to
manage all the hats that theywear Today.
We've been talking aboutmotherhood and working and
having a partner like and takingcare of yourself.
(28:10):
How do we manage all of thosehats.
And then I also have a bookcalled the love challenge, which
is a book for ambitious peoplewho have the tendency to neglect
their relationship, because ifwe're neglecting ourselves,
we're probably also neglectingour relationship as well.
So it just gives little tips onhow to create harmony in your
life and in your relationshipsand pour back into each other.
I'm also certified in Reiki, soI do some holistic healing and
(28:35):
wellness, and I do localholistic healing and wellness
events and corporate webinars.
So I myself wear a lot of hatstoo.
Cindy Mendez (28:43):
And we're going to put all those links below for
our listeners.
Thank you for tuning in to thefirst episode of many.
I promise Make sure you aresubscribed on Spotify or Apple
podcast.
I know that Google outdated us,so now it's just YouTube, but
(29:06):
go subscribe to your YouTube aswell.
That's where the audio andvideo version is available, and
I'm just so excited.
You have to look at my newsetup.
You may guess what book I gotinto from it.
Shout out to a coworker whorecommended that, but I'm just
so happy to have had Melissahere as our first guest and I
(29:33):
hope that you check out herpodcast and continue to
subscribe to ours.
And continue to subscribe toours and I will continue to
burst out these episodes tointerrupt your daily grind, and
I just am so happy to be back.
So till later, keepinterrupting.
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